00:00:00 <shachaf> fizzie: You should try out Buck and see if it's better.
00:02:22 -!- tromp has joined.
00:02:52 <fizzie> shachaf: FWIW, turned out all the rest of the problems were because the plugin just didn't support Android Studio 2.3 yet, while the "external dependencies not resolving" was due to a bad experiment they had pushed out, and had already disabled by the time I reached the end of the story.
00:03:00 <fizzie> You know those Googlers, always experimenting on people.
00:03:17 <fizzie> I didn't even know the thing had an experimentation framework.
00:03:27 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
00:03:58 <shachaf> `slwd fizzie//s. k. canary k.
00:04:00 <HackEgo> fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
00:04:26 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:05:05 <HackEgo> funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
00:05:35 <boily> `rot13 Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
00:05:36 <HackEgo> The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
00:15:18 <boily> `learn A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up.
00:15:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'canary': A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up.
00:22:33 <quintopia> boily: can you hear god talking here: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0EkAZ2uFsCG
00:23:24 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:26:25 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:27:11 <krok_> quintopia: what the heck is that
00:27:14 <krok_> quintopia: is that you?
00:27:29 <boily> also, I think you found the perfect ais523porthello.
00:29:02 <boily> quintopia: I heard god :D
00:29:21 <shachaf> I still want to see a picture of the computer ais523 didn't choose.
00:29:34 <krok_> quintopia: i listened to the whole thing, still confused af
00:29:49 <ais523> I didn't take a picture of it though
00:30:58 <shachaf> I think I may have considered buying that computer once.
00:31:04 <shachaf> http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Asus/UX501JW-DS71T/P5070055.jpg
00:32:27 <shachaf> At least there's an end key on the number pad.
00:33:58 -!- tromp has joined.
00:34:14 <HackEgo> c++//Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
00:35:06 <boily> still at the magical number ^^
00:36:31 <boily> who again had managed to flood the chännel, that one infamous time?
00:51:29 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:02:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:17:51 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left.
01:28:58 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:31:38 <HackEgo> fabric of reality//The fabric of reality is *not* plaid corduroy, no matter what evil tongues say.
01:31:58 <HackEgo> ehlist//ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/
01:32:25 <HackEgo> program//A program is an image created by means of prography.
01:32:28 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:32:33 <HackEgo> p//P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
01:32:57 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
01:33:33 <boily> I believe it will become irrelevant if P = and/or != NP, we'll just brute force everything in due time.
01:34:06 <shachaf> only brutes use brute force
01:34:31 <boily> brutes with raw musculo-computing power.
01:35:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:35:10 <HackEgo> lie algebra//A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
01:36:05 -!- tromp has joined.
01:37:10 <boily> are there practical applications to Lie algebra?
01:40:30 -!- Marcela_- has joined.
01:40:46 <fizzie> We all got a chicken-duck-woman thing waiting for us.
01:40:47 <fizzie> (I clicked too much in YouTube.)
01:41:35 <boily> Every day I worry all day ♪
01:43:32 * Marcela_- y jackiller_killex pronton se casan :-[ quien se anota para la boda ?
01:45:26 <boily> ¿porqué ":-["? ¿no eres alegre?
01:53:15 -!- Marcela_- has left.
01:57:02 <HackEgo> dowry//A dowry is a pribe paid for a brice, or maybe a bribe paid for a pride.
01:57:16 -!- Marcela_- has joined.
01:57:32 <boily> Marcela_-: ¿qué es un :-[?
01:57:52 -!- Marcela_- has left.
01:58:20 <fungot> boily: it was a hacked up quick and dirty memory fnord normally used it in about any language
02:01:35 <HackEgo> al gore//Al Gore invented the algorithm and the internet.
02:01:59 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist//bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webcomic. http://www.bardsworth.com/
02:05:47 <HackEgo> 6206:2015-11-13 <b_jonäs> le/rn al gore/Al Gore invented the algorithm and the internet. \ 6113:2015-10-20 <oerjän> le/rn al gore/Al Gore invented the algorithm. \ 6106:2015-10-20 <ais52̈3> le/rn al gore/al gore invented the algorithm
02:06:30 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/al gore'
02:06:36 <HackEgo> Al Gore invented the algorithm.
02:14:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MAJOR CHICKEN).
02:37:41 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
02:41:23 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
02:43:27 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:56:33 -!- blackmailed_ has joined.
02:58:52 <lambdabot> PAMR 010253Z 00000KT 10SM OVC085 M01/M04 A3043 RMK AO2 SLP305 T10111039 53015
03:01:48 -!- blackmailed_ has left.
03:13:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:19:36 -!- kiki` has joined.
04:07:57 <quintopia> i still can't log in to the freakin' wiki
04:08:27 <quintopia> like--i've got four cookies set from esolangs.org--but apparently that's not enough for my login to stick
04:09:16 <quintopia> ...and apparently deleting them fixed it
04:26:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
04:46:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:47:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Silberjoder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50828 * Quintopia * (+3772) Page created
04:48:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50829&oldid=50820 * Quintopia * (+18)
04:49:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CALESYTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50830&oldid=50737 * Quintopia * (+41)
04:50:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Quintopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50831&oldid=46041 * Quintopia * (+80)
04:51:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Platts]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50832&oldid=45607 * Quintopia * (-45) /* Implementation */
05:03:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
05:20:53 -!- Akaibu has joined.
05:29:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:35:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
05:44:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
05:55:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:06:07 -!- augur has joined.
06:08:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:08:23 -!- augur has joined.
06:26:42 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:30:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:37:25 <\oren\> Oh, look, someone baleeted their whole production database
06:37:38 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/gitlabstatus/status/826591961444384768
06:40:35 <shachaf> how's your build system today
06:40:39 <shachaf> you should invent a good build system
06:42:24 <\oren\> shachaf: It's 1:42 AM, but the build system was crap today
06:42:36 <shachaf> it's always 1:42 AM somewhere
06:43:07 <\oren\> The pre checkin tests failed to fail, the continuous build failed
06:43:28 <\oren\> because apparently there's a limit to how long a command line can be
06:44:02 <\oren\> which was passed by the continuous build but not the pre-checkin tests
06:46:52 -!- tromp has joined.
06:49:51 <\oren\> hopefully things will be better by tomorrow afternoon
06:51:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:58:42 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:12:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
07:12:39 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
08:47:51 -!- tromp has joined.
08:52:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:16:59 -!- LKoen has joined.
10:03:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:08:07 -!- FreeFull has joined.
10:24:06 -!- oerjan has joined.
10:41:10 <oerjan> @tell boily <-- absolutely. i once was on a summer course to learn how to solve mul<boily> are there practical applications to Lie algebra?
10:41:50 <oerjan> @tell boily oops. something pasted prematurely. stupid touchpad.
10:43:01 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> are there practical applications to Lie algebra? <-- absolutely. i once was on a summer course to learn how to solve multidimensional diff. eqs with them. well, i think that's what we did. it was in Lie's hometown.
10:47:30 <oerjan> @tell boily someone got the bright idea to have math summer schools there, it's a pretty small town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordfjordeid
10:49:04 -!- tromp has joined.
10:49:43 <oerjan> @tell oh. they're still doing that http://www.mn.uio.no/math/english/about/collaboration/nordfjordeid/
10:53:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:21:38 <oerjan> *sigh* wiki down again
11:29:17 -!- hakatashi has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:30:31 -!- hakatashi has joined.
11:33:29 <int-e> (okay, that was silly)
11:34:01 -!- boily has joined.
11:35:00 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:35:46 -!- jix has joined.
11:42:19 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
11:47:09 <boily> børjan matin, bon matint-e.
11:47:26 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 6m 15s ago: <-- absolutely. i once was on a summer course to learn how to solve mul<boily> are there practical applications to Lie algebra?
11:47:27 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 5m 36s ago: oops. something pasted prematurely. stupid touchpad.
11:47:27 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 4m 24s ago: <boily> are there practical applications to Lie algebra? <-- absolutely. i once was on a summer course to learn how to solve multidimensional diff. eqs with them. well, i
11:47:27 <lambdabot> think that's what we did. it was in Lie's hometown.
11:47:27 <lambdabot> oerjan said 59m 55s ago: someone got the bright idea to have math summer schools there, it's a pretty small town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordfjordeid
11:48:19 <oerjan> i thought i sent one more
11:48:35 <oerjan> oh. apparently i sent it to poor "oh."
11:48:56 <oerjan> <oerjan> @tell oh. they're still doing that http://www.mn.uio.no/math/english/about/collaboration/nordfjordeid/
11:49:53 <oerjan> surprise sane people, in Girl Genius? how can this be.
11:52:29 <boily> that was disturbingly logical...
11:58:49 <int-e> oerjan: that sounded like fungot
11:58:49 <fungot> int-e: maybe " esoteric wide web" is defined??' as ' codepoint.' now they have support for variable witdth fonts ( which i haven't even tested yet, it solves all this monkeying around, doesn't it
11:59:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
12:00:13 <int-e> anyway this city network must be quite crowded by now
12:01:22 <oerjan> are you saying beausoleil is self replicating tdnh
12:01:35 <int-e> oerjan: and are you suggesting that sparks are not entirely sane... don't let them hear you!
12:01:50 <int-e> no, I'm not saying that
12:01:56 <oerjan> no, tarvek is suggesting it hth
12:03:08 <int-e> I'm just saying that at least 4 entities have messed with that network recently... the master himself, beausoleil (presumably), the castle, and colette.
12:03:32 <oerjan> well the castle was thrown out
12:04:01 <int-e> I'm half expecting it to go back in... let's see :P
12:04:30 <oerjan> well i'm expecting it come with gun blazing
12:04:36 <int-e> but I see no hint of replication in there.
12:04:55 -!- tromp has joined.
12:08:57 <int-e> Meh I hate colds... brain moving like molassess.
12:09:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:10:00 * boily gives int-e oerjan's match
12:10:49 <oerjan> man, those match last long
12:18:43 <int-e> maybe the match is a proper torch
12:19:57 -!- tromp has joined.
12:24:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
12:24:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LAUGHING CHICKEN).
12:40:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:40:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
12:40:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:48:59 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:05:50 -!- Cale has quit (Excess Flood).
13:10:46 -!- xa0 has quit (Quit: Divided by zero).
13:11:07 -!- xa0 has joined.
13:44:39 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
13:49:29 -!- tromp has joined.
13:54:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
14:01:55 -!- augur has joined.
15:05:09 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:10:10 -!- Cale has joined.
15:17:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:36:55 -!- ais523 has quit.
15:49:57 -!- tromp has joined.
15:54:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:05:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
16:15:53 <\oren\> My grade 6 teacher is retiring and we're gonna throw him a party!
16:19:35 <\oren\> I wonder how common that is
16:20:07 <\oren\> Also, I'm pretty sure some people wont come because they didn't like him
16:40:26 <\oren\> hmm, maybe that would be a good idea
16:40:32 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Off for now).
16:51:10 -!- tromp has joined.
16:55:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
16:58:40 -!- GReaperEx has joined.
17:00:00 <GReaperEx> So... what's up with esolangs.org, does anyone know why it's down or when it'll return?
17:04:04 <int-e> The VM hosting the wiki seems to be down... fizzie might know more, but perhaps it needs divine intervention from Gregor :/
17:11:22 <GReaperEx> Ok, I guess I'll have to wait and see. It was down the day before yesterday too.
17:21:25 -!- GReaperEx has quit (Quit: Page closed).
17:29:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:45:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:45:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:03:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:23:58 -!- augur has joined.
18:24:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:34:08 -!- augur has joined.
18:36:38 -!- tromp has joined.
18:41:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:45:29 <fizzie> It was down, and then back up.
18:46:07 <fizzie> I don't really have any visibility to the hosting provider, so yes, I think a Gregorvention is required. Or maybe it just comes back up naturally.
18:46:19 <quintopia> i guess i've gotten lucky. it's always been up when i've looked
18:47:02 <fizzie> I'm guessing there's at least one nine.
18:48:18 <fizzie> I have some monitoring on it, but I keep forgetting how this InfluxDB query language works.
18:48:29 <fizzie> It sure is no Dremel, I can say that much.
18:48:37 <quintopia> how is reliability usually measured anyway? continuously?
18:49:10 <shachaf> fizzie: I've been using Prometheus (a Borgmon clone) recently.
18:52:36 <fizzie> How rude, picking a name that's already an internal codename.
18:52:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:53:09 <fizzie> "Unfortunately, System UI has stopped."
18:53:29 <Gregor> int-e: Bizarrely, the VM seems up but not on the network.
18:53:39 <Gregor> I'm gonna give it a kick.
18:53:40 <shachaf> fizzie: Is that the one that's the future?
18:53:48 <Gregor> Not sure why it decided that network access is for losers.
18:54:11 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess all of them are.
18:54:18 <fizzie> Or at least were at some point.
18:54:34 <shachaf> I keep mixing up my internal code names.
18:56:13 <\oren\> relevant: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/27/bofh_2015_episode_2/
19:00:39 <int-e> Gregor: oh, hope it's not permanent
19:02:06 <int-e> (I've just lost a CaC VM that way about two weeks ago, VM was up but lost network... however in that case the gateway was also unreachable from outside and that doesn't appear to be the case here.)
19:03:19 <int-e> (that's assuming that the gateway is 162.248.166.1)
19:03:33 <Gregor> That is indeed the gateway.
19:07:58 <Gregor> int-e: Problem seems to be the opposite. Outside can see GW but it can't.
19:09:25 <shachaf> Just as well, HackEgo being slow makes me not want to olist.
19:10:44 <shachaf> Since I olist, then it doesn't reply for a long while so I switch to another window, then it notifies me.
19:12:17 <int-e> Gregor: the gateway being visible from outside is new to me, it not being visible from inside also happened with my VM. total routing failure.
19:12:46 <Gregor> Not really much I can do about it :)
19:13:26 <int-e> Yeah. You can create a ticket and wait while CaC totally ignores it.
19:16:16 <int-e> or you can set up a mirror of http://www.cloudatacost.com/ (I suspect the owner would gladly give you permission :P)
19:17:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:26:02 -!- krok has joined.
19:26:25 -!- krok has changed nick to Guest46309.
19:26:37 -!- Guest46309 has quit (Client Quit).
19:26:57 -!- krok_ has joined.
19:31:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:33:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:38:57 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:40:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:44:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:56:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:57:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:24:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:29:04 <izabera> actual website with useful info ^
20:37:38 -!- tromp has joined.
20:42:08 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:05:29 <\oren\> argh, now nano is freezing?!
21:05:50 <oerjan> i think this is "everything breaks" week
21:06:10 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:08:00 <\oren\> oerjan: well at least the build system is working
21:12:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
21:13:36 <oerjan> \oren\: well that was broken from the start hth
21:33:40 <\oren\> Water Rabbit refuses to pay back EU funds
21:34:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:37:48 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
21:39:37 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:42:03 <fizzie> "The most common problems noticed are long waits for virtual machine deployment, loss of network connection, or total loss of a virtual machine. "
21:51:38 <\oren\> Albino Heghog is in the lead in nederland polls
21:52:46 <fizzie> izabera: Your cock wiki seems a little spam-infested.
22:01:00 <oerjan> it's on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/5r1g6l/esolangsorg_is_down/
22:02:45 <oerjan> well it's a very small subreddit.
22:03:18 <fizzie> Still, those are *real people* we're disappointifying. Not just #esoteric regulars.
22:03:57 <\oren\> I don't have a reddit acount, I deleted it
22:04:00 <oerjan> . o O ( `addquote ... oh wait )
22:04:19 <fizzie> I have once done a read-only backup copy for the wiki. Wonder if I should do something like that again.
22:04:53 <fizzie> Probably depends on how long the server is going to be down.
22:21:01 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:21:08 <ais523> fizzie: wiki seems to be down
22:26:18 <fizzie> ais523: We were discussing that very thing right now, in fact.
22:26:26 <ais523> right, I just checked the log
22:26:35 <ais523> PPCG went and told me to go ping you though
22:26:48 <ais523> so it looks like there's at least two communities outside us that care about the wiki being down…
22:27:23 <fizzie> That's: so weird. Maybe I'll see if I can set up that read-only copy. I might still have most of the configuration in place.
22:28:29 <fizzie> Fortunately it was up on the 30th, so my weekly backup isn't even particularly stale.
22:38:35 -!- tromp has joined.
22:43:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:47:00 <fizzie> Hmm. What I don't have in my backups is the SSL certificate, since it's rather elsewhere. That's a shame.
22:56:33 <fizzie> This database restore takes a relatively long time.
23:01:37 <fizzie> I'm getting back "A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software."
23:02:10 <fizzie> Although maybe that was because the MySQL instance wasn't listening on TCP, just a Unix domain socket. Wonder if MediaWiki could use that.
23:02:55 <fizzie> Oh, it's already supposed to do that when the server is specified as "localhost".
23:06:56 <fizzie> I set on $wgShowSQLErrors, and the other error reporting thing on Manual:How_to_debug, but it still says nothing more verbose than that. :(
23:07:59 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:09:04 <fizzie> Odd. The maintenance/rebuildFileCache.php script I executed from the command line seems to have no problems with the database.
23:09:12 <fizzie> And I think it's using the same settings.
23:11:17 <fizzie> Oh, whoops, it was using a path to the old version of MediaWiki for the PHP thing.
23:13:57 <fizzie> It's being pretty slow, but it did show up, yay. Wonder if I should try to set up the HTTPS thing as well.
23:23:44 <fizzie> Oh, right, I'll have to reconfigure the DNS before letsencrypt can actually do the domain verification thing.
23:30:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:32:34 <fizzie> Okay, wiki should be back up in read-only mode.
23:34:00 <fizzie> (May also be slow, and you might have to wait for DNS records to propagate.)
23:39:44 -!- tromp has joined.
23:44:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:55:57 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:06:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:27:48 -!- tromp has joined.
00:28:15 -!- Zarutian has joined.
00:29:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
00:38:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:50:46 -!- copumpkin has joined.
01:02:48 <fizzie> (I'd also like to put in a banner since the wgReadOnly setting is pretty subtle, but looks like the simple ways to do that would involve extensions, and I don't want to start fiddling with the templates.)
01:13:28 -!- paul2520 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2).
01:13:44 -!- paul2520 has joined.
01:18:11 -!- paul2520 has quit (Client Quit).
01:18:34 -!- paul2520 has joined.
01:18:34 -!- paul2520 has quit (Changing host).
01:18:34 -!- paul2520 has joined.
01:25:27 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:34:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:34:58 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:52:12 -!- tromp has joined.
01:55:53 -!- boily has joined.
01:58:44 <boily> Gregor: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEUGURGHGHGHRGHRGHGHGHRGHH!
01:59:57 <boily> fizziello? over what?
02:00:37 <fizzie> 19:12 <Gregor> Not really much I can do about it :)
02:00:37 <fizzie> 19:13 <int-e> Yeah. You can create a ticket and wait while CaC totally ignores it.
02:01:22 * boily feels like a junkie without his daily fix
02:01:56 <fizzie> Don't you have that PDF?
02:02:14 <fizzie> You should print it out, then you can throw darts at it to pick one.
02:03:38 <boily> going to print it, bind it, and mail it to whomever that wants to have a dead tree copy.
02:12:45 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
02:16:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
02:21:08 <boily> hppavellon[1]. you're rebracketed!
02:37:01 <boily> quinthellopia. going to bed!
02:37:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: JELLYBEAN CHICKEN).
02:49:53 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:06:10 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
03:07:38 -!- tromp has joined.
03:37:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:43:41 -!- ais523 has quit.
04:17:52 -!- kiki` has joined.
04:31:18 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:00:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:03:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:13:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:32:07 -!- tromp has joined.
05:36:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:07:37 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
06:12:59 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
06:12:59 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
06:26:07 -!- Deewiant has joined.
06:26:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
07:31:59 -!- tromp has joined.
07:36:08 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
07:37:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
08:05:12 -!- augur has joined.
08:09:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:33:05 -!- tromp has joined.
08:37:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:04:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:14:33 -!- augur has joined.
10:19:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:26:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:26:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
10:26:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:34:23 -!- tromp has joined.
10:39:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:48:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
11:07:13 <fizzie> Heh, a familiar name: http://thedailywtf.com/images/17/q1/e244/Pic-4.png
11:35:06 -!- boily has joined.
11:45:23 <izabera> let me share with you the pride of my town http://www.rionesanpaolo-asti.it/IMMAGINIFOTO/varie/territorio/campo%20del%20palio/campodelpalio%20(2).JPG
11:45:45 <izabera> a penis shaped building built in the 1920s or 30s
11:46:06 <izabera> it's meant to represent virility and such
11:46:42 <boily> izabellora. that is one ugly building.
11:48:16 <fizzie> Let's do a tower comparison. Here's the one in the town my parents are from: http://esukki.mbnet.fi/images/vesitor.jpg
11:50:12 <boily> yours is mushroomy hth
11:53:21 <Taneb> Here's a water tower that used to be at my uni: https://www.york.ac.uk/media/chemistry/archivephotos/watertower/watertower1.jpg
11:53:21 <boily> that's probably the thing that is most like a tower in my hometown: https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/98/24/ee/observatoire-de-la-capitale.jpg
11:54:28 <boily> Tanelle. concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socotra#/media/File:Socotra_dragon_tree.JPG ?
11:54:49 <Taneb> boily, it was known as "the mushroom"
11:55:40 <boily> a very concrete mushroom.
11:56:16 <Taneb> It was built in the 60s when times were simple and everything was concrete
11:58:13 <fizzie> There's a ufo-shaped one in Espoo.
11:58:33 <fizzie> http://s114.photobucket.com/user/Janne_H_2006/media/haikaranpesa.jpg.html
11:58:38 <fizzie> There's a restaurant up top.
11:59:40 -!- Alfie275 has joined.
12:00:27 <Taneb> Alfie275, the bot is missing
12:02:17 <boily> Alfiello275, b_jellonas.
12:04:03 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:05:09 -!- tromp has joined.
12:05:47 <b_jonas> I don't know of a penis-shaped building here, but there's a maize ear shaped one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kis-Sv%C3%A1b_Hill_Protection_Area._View_to_Hotel_Budapest._-_Budapest.JPG
12:06:46 <b_jonas> so yummy, with those thousand corn seeds, you could just bite in it if you were a giant
12:08:36 -!- staffehn has joined.
12:09:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
12:17:38 <fizzie> Well, speaking of vegetables, of course here in London we've got the http://londontopia.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/The-Gherkin_safra-group.jpg
12:20:53 -!- GReaperEx has joined.
12:29:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COVER CHICKEN).
12:30:40 <GReaperEx> Are there any cool Brainloller images out there? Like, the image should look like something, instead of just random noise.
12:38:50 <fizzie> Somehow I feel that it's more likely you'd find Piet programs instead.
12:40:38 <oerjan> i made a comment on that /r/esolangs post.
12:41:45 <fizzie> oerjan: That was well done.
12:42:19 <fizzie> GReaperEx: Granted, a lot of Piet programs are random noise as well. But there's some stuff, like the sample hello-world: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/hw6_big.png
12:42:59 <fizzie> There was also a Facebook recruiting ad puzzle thing in Piet, done in the shape of their 'f' logo.
12:44:08 <fizzie> And the pi calculator is very nice as well.
12:44:23 <fizzie> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html has all the "official" samples.
12:44:36 <fizzie> (Look for a big red thing.)
12:45:03 <GReaperEx> I guess any image could be created really, as long as you don't use the specific colors that translate to instructions. The interpreter should ignore anything else, right?
12:45:40 <fizzie> Piet doesn't define what colors except the 20 specific ones do.
12:45:50 <fizzie> "Additional colours (such as orange, brown) may be used, though their effect is implementation-dependent. In the simplest case, non-standard colours are treated by the language interpreter as the same as white, so may be used freely wherever white is used. (Another possibility is that they are treated the same as black.)"
12:46:05 <fizzie> So it's a bit risky business.
12:46:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
12:46:23 <fizzie> I don't know about Brainloller, DNS for esolangs.org hasn't updated for me at work. :/
12:46:50 <GReaperEx> oh I see, implementation-defined and such.
12:46:59 <fizzie> If you're talking about an image of appreciable size, though, it's probably pretty easy to just arrange matters so that execution doesn't pass through the extra colors.
12:47:22 <fizzie> For example, there's this: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=559
12:48:52 <fizzie> I did that pretty much by tweaking the noise left over (after palette conversion) a little bit.
13:05:57 -!- tromp has joined.
13:10:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:38:15 -!- tromp has joined.
13:48:14 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:59:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:15:38 -!- augur has joined.
14:20:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:32:47 <Taneb> HackEgo is also at Canada
14:34:29 * int-e hugs fizzie platonically
14:46:59 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:54:03 -!- augur has joined.
14:54:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:00:43 -!- tromp has joined.
15:04:11 -!- augur has joined.
15:04:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:04:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:04:48 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
15:35:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:35:59 -!- bibibi has joined.
15:43:17 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:52:57 <\oren\> Why is there so much issues with the command line arguments ength limit
15:55:00 <b_jonas> \oren\: the 2 megabyte linux one, the 32k windows one, or the 127 byte DOS one?
15:56:02 <b_jonas> the 127 byte DOS one is funny, because file paths can be up to 80 bytes long
15:56:17 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
16:11:41 -!- GReaperEx has quit (Quit: Page closed).
16:13:07 -!- Mecha_Magpie has joined.
16:14:33 <\oren\> b_jonas: the 2 megabyte linux one
16:15:02 <ais523> \oren\: by issues, do you mean it causes issues by existing, or that it's badly implemented?
16:19:24 <\oren\> ais523: I mean that our command lines keep exceeding it
16:19:39 <\oren\> and we have to rework things so they don't
16:20:09 <ais523> I assume you're passing data via the command line which is more commonly passed in files?
16:20:42 <ais523> many DOS programs had a convention that @ followed by a filename would treat the entire contents of the file as command line options
16:22:41 <\oren\> ais523: it's a list of files. but it got too many
16:23:01 <ais523> so how many files is 2MB of filenames?
16:24:29 <\oren\> they're of the form /projects/Codename/Lyoko/SomeStupidClassName.{cpp,h,xx,yy,zzzzz.xx}
16:24:52 <ais523> interesting extensions
16:25:58 <\oren\> we use a lot of various stupid extentions for internal lanuages
16:27:06 <\oren\> (yes, plural. there are at least 3 languages used only at this company and nowhere else)
16:27:50 -!- Mecha_Ma` has joined.
16:28:07 <\oren\> to say othing of the .generated.cpp and etc file
16:28:19 <\oren\> and the .generated.2.cpp
16:29:28 -!- Mecha_Magpie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:29:32 <int-e> and how do they all end up on the same command line?
16:29:45 <\oren\> and the build system doesn't properly detect when these .generated files need to be regenerated, so before a build be have to delete tham
16:30:39 <\oren\> int-e: by shell scripts passing them into other shell scripts
16:31:15 <int-e> . o O ( why not use make... make isn't perfect but it's almost certainly better than that)
16:31:17 <\oren\> (or into scripts written in an internal scripting language)
16:37:46 <\oren\> where the script interpreter has a slow interpreter that spends a long time parsing things
16:47:11 <b_jonas> \oren\: if it's three languages, then two unsual extensions xx and zzzzz.xx isn't that many
16:47:31 <b_jonas> yy is the extension for yacc files that contain c++ code of course, it's not unusual
16:48:08 <\oren\> b_jonas: those are just paceholders for the actual extensions
16:49:11 <\oren\> wait hold on Salmon is open source anyway
16:49:18 <\oren\> wtf am i talking about
16:49:43 <\oren\> the extentions are .salm, .jt.se, .comspec.se and .se
16:50:37 <izabera> where's the fucking bot -.-
16:50:50 <b_jonas> izabera: not dead, just pinin' the fjords
16:51:17 <\oren\> izabera: dead until cloud at cocks fixes it
16:52:46 <izabera> it took them 3 weeks to reply to my last ticket
16:53:17 <ais523> oh, it has underscores?
16:53:27 <ais523> I'm not sure if it responds to its name anyway
16:53:37 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
16:53:45 <ais523> ah, we have at least one working bot, at least
16:54:08 <\oren\> Maybe I should have my bot have an alternative prefix that is in ascii
16:54:46 <\oren\> maybe ## as an alternative to ❄
16:55:29 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
16:56:27 <b_jonas> and the tunes.org logbot is working too
16:56:29 <\oren\> or maybe something cool like }|{
16:57:25 <b_jonas> \oren\: couldn't it just listen to its nick as a prefix?
16:57:47 <b_jonas> ffj-bot: 'I listen to my nick'
16:57:48 <ffj-bot> b_jonas: I listen to my nick
17:00:35 <ais523> so easy to get the various APL-alikes confused
17:00:46 <\oren\> b_jonas: not sure how to get my own nick in irssi scripts
17:00:48 <b_jonas> ais523: in whta apl-alike does that work?
17:01:07 <ais523> not sure, but I thought there was one where "1 2 3 4 5" was a list constructor
17:01:12 -!- tromp has joined.
17:01:23 <ais523> I guess I got the evaluation order wrong
17:01:52 <ais523> I'm used to Jelly, where you have to start with a constant
17:02:05 <ais523> and then the rest of the program is a function that takes the constant as input
17:02:15 <b_jonas> the problem is that the stack consists of a noun followed by a verb with nothing before, which is not allowed by the grammar
17:03:28 <b_jonas> anyway, 1 2 3 4 5 is a list constructor in almost any apl-like, but (1 2) (3 4) is different: in some classical APLs it constructs a list of lists or something, in J it's a syntax error, in K I think it constructs a single flat list but I'm not sure
17:05:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:09:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
17:10:35 <ais523> b_jonas: Jelly's list syntax is [1,2,3,4,5], but literal lists are pretty rare
17:11:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
17:45:08 <\oren\> ❄bf ++++++[->++++++<]>...[]
17:45:51 <\oren\> ❄bf +++++++[->+++++++<]>...[]
17:49:21 <\oren\> ❄bf ++++++[->++++++<]>...[]
17:56:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:56:59 <\oren\> ❄bf ++++++[->++++++<]>...[]
17:57:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:01:46 -!- tromp has joined.
18:02:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:06:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:13:49 <fizzie> fungot is a working bot.
18:13:49 <fungot> fizzie: i was talking about a 4k ( which excludes my possible participation), i'm kinda new here.
18:15:00 <fizzie> @tell ais523 Something about the IRC bot Ruby framework zemhill is using causes it to collect underscores.
18:16:01 <zemhill__> fizzie: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
18:16:23 <fizzie> @tell And rather confusingly, it answers to !help with the help message.
18:16:27 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:16:33 <fizzie> @tell ais523 And rather confusingly, it answers to !help with the help message.
18:16:46 <fizzie> I wonder how many messages "and" has.
18:16:55 <fizzie> And/or if they're on any channels lambdabot is.
18:17:28 -!- and has joined.
18:17:41 <and> @messages-loud
18:17:41 <lambdabot> fizzie said 1m 17s ago: rather confusingly, it answers to !help with the help message.
18:17:55 -!- and has quit (Client Quit).
18:18:14 <int-e> fizzie: the answer is, none.
18:19:50 <int-e> which is weird, hmm
18:21:48 <int-e> oh, you emptied the bucket.
18:22:24 <fizzie> It wasn't a big bucket.
18:22:33 <fizzie> I'd call that a teacup, maybe.
18:22:40 <shachaf> I thought you were making a joke when you said none.
18:23:03 <shachaf> Do they drink tea in London?
18:23:39 <int-e> there are messages to <ais523>, <boily>, <b_jonas>, <mroman> and <oerjan> though... that won't work very well.
18:24:03 <shachaf> lambdabot was patched to allow @tell nick: instead of @tell nick
18:24:19 <shachaf> I suppose it ought to allow @tell <nick> too.
18:25:26 <int-e> even "I" has only a single message
18:27:46 <shachaf> i,i I, for one, like roman numerals
18:29:37 -!- augur has joined.
18:29:45 <shachaf> It's not a funpun, though. I read it on the Internet somewhere.
18:30:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
18:30:57 <fizzie> shachaf: I think they do.
18:31:18 <fizzie> shachaf: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/31751878454/
18:31:55 <shachaf> Is London more expensive to live in than San Francisco?
18:32:19 <fizzie> I don't think there's a scalar answer to that.
18:33:17 <shachaf> You were buying real estate in London the other day, weren't you?
18:33:55 <fizzie> Nnnot really, I just look at what's available occasionally.
18:34:43 <shachaf> Do you think buying real estate in the bay area is a good idea?
18:35:09 <fizzie> Depends. Do you think California will become an independent country, and if so, will there be war?
18:35:20 <fizzie> I hear you're (/they're) talking that sort of talks.
18:35:23 <pikhq> I suspect living in the urban area of London is cheaper than in the urban area of SF, but living in the central region of London most analogous to SF proper probably is comparable.
18:36:07 <pikhq> (the cost of living in the Bay Area doesn't go down *that* much outside of SF, and transportation gets pretty hard the further you are from your work there.)
18:36:31 <shachaf> It's a fair bit lower around here, I think.
18:36:58 <pikhq> ... While in London, at least you have transport options meaning you can quite sanely live in a cheaper part of the region.
18:37:09 <fizzie> pikhq: Except when they're on strike.
18:37:20 <fizzie> (There's a tube strike coming from Sunday to Wednesday.)
18:38:39 <fizzie> Yes, can you tell I'm all frazzled about it?
18:39:29 <int-e> first May, then Trump, now this... the world is truly coming to an end
18:40:38 <int-e> and of course there's the sudden decline of CaC quality of service!
18:49:12 <fizzie> I toyed about the idea of running it on Google Cloud Platform, but turns out it doesn't support "individual" account types in the EU area, for VAT reasons.
18:49:22 <fizzie> (Where it == the wiki.)
18:51:32 <shachaf> good thing y'all scrapped the EU area hth
18:52:24 <shachaf> "If the sole purpose for which you want to use Google Cloud Platform services has no potential economic benefit you should discontinue your use of the service. Learn how to disable billing on your projects."
18:53:37 <int-e> economic benefit... to whom?!
18:54:26 <fizzie> I could be a "business", but then I believe I would have to pay VAT myself.
18:54:54 <\oren\> next will be Geert Wilders, then Marine Le Pen
18:55:03 <fizzie> We have a Googler-internal coupon thing for some credits that should be sufficient, but I don't know how that interacts with tax.
18:55:20 <fizzie> Also not sure if I can even redeem that coupon with a non-"Individual" account type.
18:55:35 <int-e> afaiu the thing about VAT in the EU is that companies have to pay VAT in the customer's country of origin (and VAT rates differ between countries too)
18:56:22 <int-e> but nonetheless the sentence that shachaf quoted strikes me as odd.
18:56:31 <int-e> it's so unspecific
18:56:43 <shachaf> Well, it comes after several other sentences.
18:56:46 <fizzie> That's my understanding as well. And Russia changed their rules the same way, which means Google Cloud did the same thing for Russia. (Saw the thing shachaf quoted sent also for them.)
18:57:42 <int-e> shachaf: oh this comes after a specific list of uses that they're actually interested in? that would make sense
18:57:45 <fizzie> If I "pay" with a coupon, would I be liable for tax? I have absolutely no intuition (the best way to figure out taxation) about this.
18:58:06 <fizzie> int-e: It wasn't *that* specific.
18:58:13 <shachaf> int-e: https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/6090602
18:58:32 <shachaf> fizzie: While you're figuring out taxation, can you help me with the US tax code?
18:58:46 <shachaf> What constitutes "substantially identical" securities for the wash sale rule?
18:59:10 <fizzie> shachaf: Levenshtein distance of less than three hth
18:59:14 <shachaf> (This is less relevant nowadays since all my securities' prices have gone up.)
19:05:48 <int-e> huh, "Most software developers -- including affiliates, sole traders, self-employed merchants, partnerships, students and others -- use Google Cloud Platform for business purposes." really rings false to me.
19:06:35 <int-e> (students, really? and there are plenty of hobbyists, too, I'd think.)
19:06:41 <pikhq> I'm reading that as "Most software developers (who use Google Cloud Platforms) use Google Cloud Platform for business purposes."
19:07:26 <pikhq> Still, that is... Bizarre.
19:07:45 <pikhq> They just punted on the idea of end-user users of the service in Europe.
19:07:54 <pikhq> (which kills the viability of the service, IMO)
19:08:14 <pikhq> I imagine nobody would be using AWS if it had a similar setup back when.
19:09:42 <int-e> fizzie might *just* be fine as long as the billed amount remains a flat zero.
19:10:20 <int-e> but obviously that's just an opinion, not sure what the legal situation really is.
19:15:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:25:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:27:19 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
19:27:26 -!- nortti has joined.
19:33:36 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:34:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:34:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:35:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:40:34 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:44:35 <fizzie> int-e: Well, it says "you'd like to see a potential economic benefit from your development activities, for example: using the Google Cloud Platform to develop prototypes or applications with a view to generating revenue in the future."
19:44:39 <fizzie> int-e: Arguably if you intend to have a career in software, everything you do to learn things while a student of that field has a "business purpose".
19:45:04 <pikhq> That sounds like an atypical view of the term to me.
19:45:19 <pikhq> But I'm not a lawyer and especially not a European lawyer.
19:45:33 <ais523> fizzie (and anyone else who cares): Stack Exchange gives a certain amount of free advertising space to their communities, while people are viewing them
19:45:48 <shachaf> pikhq: have you considered law school hth
19:45:54 <ais523> PPCG are considering producing an advert for Esolang (which would show some proportion of the time when people visited PPCG)
19:45:59 <pikhq> Considered? I guess I have, yes.
19:46:13 <ais523> do we want one? and if so, what would it look like?
19:46:49 <shachaf> Presumably it would involve limes.
19:47:16 <ais523> that's what the PPCG chat said too
19:47:31 <ais523> but really, it should convey to the typical PPCG audience why they'd want to visit our site
19:48:12 <shachaf> PPCG seems to stand for Programming Puzzles & Code Golf, by the way.
19:49:44 <ais523> they're probably the Internet's biggest user of esolangs
19:50:16 <ais523> I've been aware of them for ages but resisted joining, typically I persuaded lynn to relay messages
19:50:25 <ais523> but in the end I finally gave in and now I'm relaying the messages myself
20:02:42 -!- tromp has joined.
20:03:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:04:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:07:19 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:16:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:16:58 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:28:12 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:29:36 <wob_jonas> ais523: about the community ads, one thing I was wondering is making one where the image is regularly replaced by a bot. it's a bit tricky, because you need to use the SE api for editing, which is nontrivial to implement, plus upload the images to their server, but it's possible and somewhat esoteric.
20:30:00 <ais523> wob_jonas: normally they just do that by directing the image to a server that updates, I think?
20:30:16 <ais523> like, the image file is hosted elsewhere and just gets replaced on the server that hosts it
20:30:23 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:30:42 <wob_jonas> ais523: also, I've been relaying messages on SE for a while, I can do it for you too if you want, but then since you're already joined it'd be more strange
20:31:15 <wob_jonas> ais523: no, the rules for the community ads specifically say the image must be hosted on imgur, and they probably enforce that
20:31:28 <wob_jonas> but someone's already documented how to automatically upload an image there
20:31:56 -!- jix has joined.
20:32:19 <wob_jonas> ais523: http://meta.scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/10564/community-promotion-ads-2017 "Must be hosted through our standard image uploader (imgur)"
20:32:46 <wob_jonas> if it was as easy as directing the ad to my server, then I'd have done it by now
20:33:27 <wob_jonas> although ordinary SE posts do allow images on your own server, so someone who wants that thing could collect a lot of traffic logs that way
20:34:03 <wob_jonas> (unless you're in control of the imgur servers of course)
20:55:30 -!- contrapumpkin has joined.
20:56:07 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:56:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:56:40 -!- Akaibu has joined.
20:58:07 <fizzie> Having an ad would be exciting, though I don't have any good, creative ideas re content, and it'd probably be best to do at at some time when the wiki's actually up.
20:59:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:59:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:59:58 <DHeadshot> Which is the esolang that had comments entirely and only written in malaysian? I can't remember...
21:07:17 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the wiki is up, or so it seems to me
21:07:52 <wob_jonas> DHeadshot: dunno, that reminds me to http://esolangs.org/wiki/%D0%AE%E1%93%82%EA%B3%A7%E2%8E%94 but doesn't match
21:10:10 <wob_jonas> DHeadshot: found it: http://esolangs.org/wiki/SON-OF-UNBABTIZED . you just have to search for "malaysian" in the wiki
21:11:03 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:31:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:34:34 <ais523> fizzie: the ad's likely to run all of 2017, and can be repeated next year if people like it
21:34:37 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:34:53 <ais523> (err, all of the remainder of 2017 )
21:38:17 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:42:14 <fizzie> wob_jonas: It's not properly up.
21:42:40 <fizzie> wob_jonas: I have a read-only backup copy running next to my feet here, but the disk access noises are annoying my wife.
21:45:16 <wob_jonas> also thanks to your wife for tolerating it
21:49:48 <ais523> hmm, this new laptop appears to have a touchpadbinding that does the same thing as alt-tab
21:49:58 <ais523> I've hit it several times by accident, but experimentation fails to reveal what it is
21:50:33 <ais523> it doesn't appear to be a three- or four-finger drag up, down, left, or right
21:50:38 <wob_jonas> is there some software that lets you control settings related to that touchpad?
21:50:45 <ais523> although I did discover that a four-finger tap opens the "start menu" equivalent
21:50:58 <wob_jonas> ais523: perhaps it's on some particular area, like near some corner or edge?
21:51:02 <ais523> wob_jonas: on Windows, yes; this is on Linux, though, so I assume something in Ubuntu is involved
21:51:07 <wob_jonas> some touchpads have special functions near the edges and corners
21:51:24 <ais523> top right corner appears to be middle-click, I figured that one out a while back
21:51:42 <ais523> none of the other corners react to taps
21:52:47 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:53:17 <wob_jonas> common functions include mouse wheel if you drag the right or bottom edge, and locking touchpad if you double-tap the corner with the led that shows whether it's locked
21:53:35 <fizzie> My work laptop has a touchpad with "non-physical" buttons like that, and I never quite managed to configure it exactly the way it should work, even with a lot of fiddling with synclient.
21:54:11 <ais523> wob_jonas: this touchpad doesn't do either of those
21:54:26 <ais523> incidentally, I'm somewhat impressed that it can distinguish a four- from a three-finger tap
21:55:16 <wob_jonas> ais523: lots of years ago, I had a combination of motherboard, mouse, and software that would occasionally sometimes become mad and start jumping large distances wildly and clicking, even though I just move the mouse. stops when the mouse stops moving, and becomes normal after.
21:55:40 <wob_jonas> sadly, the huge distances often moved the mouse to the very corner of the screen, where the close button of a window is
21:55:56 <fizzie> I wonder if these HasSecondarySoftButtons / SecondarySoftButtonAreas options existed when I was trying.
21:55:59 <wob_jonas> ais523: is it possible that this alt-tab thing is not a symptom of a similar bug?
21:56:32 <ais523> nah, I'm pretty sure it's intentional
21:56:45 <\oren\> I prefer using a bleutoth mouse nayway
21:56:52 <ais523> simply that I haven't figured out the trigger
21:56:59 <ais523> maybe it's buried deep in ccsm somewhere
21:57:19 <wob_jonas> ais523: have you tried searching the internet, including either "ubuntu" or the model of the notebook?
21:57:21 -!- krok has joined.
21:57:45 -!- krok has changed nick to Guest60138.
21:57:52 <wob_jonas> you can often find posts on the internet about such things
21:57:53 -!- Guest60138 has quit (Client Quit).
21:58:09 -!- krok_ has joined.
21:59:24 <ais523> this feels like the sort of thing I should be able to figure out myself :-(
22:00:26 <ais523> aha, it's a double three-finger tap
22:02:06 <ais523> I also found the docs for it online (after figuring that out), and it seems that much of its functionality isn't working
22:02:11 <ais523> only the "switch to previous window"
22:03:47 -!- tromp has joined.
22:04:08 <fizzie> I keep forgetting whether "drag with the right button" is executed as a two-finger tap followed by a single-finger drag, or a single-finger tap followed by a double-finger drag.
22:04:26 <fizzie> (Two-finger single tap is a regular right click.)
22:04:48 <\oren\> ais523: I bet it will go away if you unistall unity
22:05:20 <ais523> \oren\: I /like/ Unity
22:06:02 <ais523> one to two should logically drag and scroll at the same time (which is an operation that's meaningful on a regular mouse), but it doesn't seem to
22:06:30 <ais523> actually, my issue with Unity is that it's broadly well designed from a UI point of view, but terribly implemented
22:06:48 <\oren\> All guis related to a window should stay in that window. they shouldn't be on the top of the screen
22:07:00 <ais523> I mean, it has an option for that
22:07:03 <ais523> but I'm not sure I agree
22:07:24 <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI
22:08:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:08:07 <wob_jonas> `addquote <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI
22:08:31 <ais523> I have to use Gnome 3 at work
22:08:39 <ais523> it took me a while to figure out how it works – it's fairly unintuitive
22:08:42 <ais523> and I still resent using it
22:08:58 <\oren\> also, there should be a menu containing a simple categorical list of every gui program on the system. you shouldn't have to guess at the name of the program in some sort of privacy-cancer-ridden search box
22:09:17 <ais523> at least Unity figured out fairly quickly that they shouldn't autohide the launcher, and made it there permanently by default
22:09:29 <ais523> \oren\: the search box doesn't access the internet by default nowadays
22:09:35 <ais523> unlike Windows', which does
22:10:06 <wob_jonas> \oren\: oh come on, they say that about every windows version
22:10:14 <ais523> you can get a list of every GUI program on the system fairly quickly
22:10:25 <wob_jonas> I know windows 10 sucks, but at least say something that's specific to that one
22:10:31 <\oren\> the good windowses are 98, XP, and 7
22:10:43 <ais523> (start menu equivalent / Applications / Installed); it also lets you set filters to narrow it down to categories
22:10:50 <ais523> \oren\: also you mean 98 SE specifically
22:11:00 <ais523> but yes, 2000 was genuinely good
22:11:12 <ais523> 3.1 was also good for its time
22:11:14 <shachaf> Oh, you mean Windows, not the year.
22:11:14 <wob_jonas> what? 95 OSR2 was a decent one. no memory protection made sense at its time.
22:11:46 <ais523> btw, I still have the opinion that Vista is the best version of Windows
22:12:10 <\oren\> vista is a bug ridden turd
22:12:26 <myname> vista was like the public alpha of 7
22:12:53 <ais523> vista is not buggy in of itself, it's just very good at exposing bugs in everything else
22:13:06 <ais523> Microsoft had to back down from this policy because everyone blamed the OS
22:13:19 <ais523> with the result that 7 after it (and XP before it) are both much more tolerant of buggy program
22:13:30 <wob_jonas> yeah, they have quite a lot of really crazy workarounds for old programs
22:13:40 <ais523> and so Microsoft lost pretty much their only chance to try to get the quality of programs on their platform up
22:13:42 <\oren\> ais523: linus torvalds said it best: "WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!"
22:14:00 <ais523> \oren\: most of the crashes are a result of breaking kernelspace
22:14:11 <wob_jonas> like, redirecting the system32 directory unless the program claims he knows what system32 means
22:14:12 <ais523> the issue is that Microsoft mostly doesn't write drivers themselves
22:14:20 <ais523> but rather leaves it up to the hardware manufacture
22:14:46 <ais523> most of them suck at writing drivers, and many are selfish rather than playing nice with the platform
22:14:57 <\oren\> the point is that whatever was changed most recently must be blamed
22:15:07 <ais523> incidentally, this is why hardware more than a few months old is more likely to "just work" on Linux than Windows
22:15:58 <\oren\> anyway, things worked better on windows 7 and windows 7 gets that credit
22:16:08 <wob_jonas> ais523: sure, and if I buy my next computer, I'll try to buy a motherboard that's at least one year old if possible, so that within a year it will start to just work, when hardware people reverse engineer it to write drivers for everything, like power management and network card and disk controller and stuff
22:16:30 <wob_jonas> I think the case and hard disk can be new models, those don't matter much
22:16:50 <wob_jonas> the addition hard disks that is, I will also keep using the ones I have now
22:17:00 <wob_jonas> they're not as old as this motherboard and cpu and memory
22:18:57 <\oren\> anyway the point i was making about UI is that information hiding in a UI is bad
22:19:28 <\oren\> a large menu with every program in it is better than a pretty one where it's hard to find things
22:21:22 <\oren\> the menu for unity at least should have a section where you can get a scrollable list of all programs
22:21:44 -!- Mecha_Ma` has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:24:23 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:33:32 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
22:35:05 <\oren\> windows 8 made the same exact mistake in their idiotic "start screen" of course
22:41:21 <ais523> \oren\: Unity's menu /has/ a scrollable list of all programs
22:41:43 <ais523> open the menu, click on the applications icon at the bottom (which looks sort-of like an A), then click on "installed"
22:41:57 <\oren\> why is it three clicks away
22:42:28 <ais523> because it's rarely used
22:42:51 <\oren\> and why isn't it labeled simply "all programs" like on windows 7
22:44:52 <\oren\> I never discovered it until I had given up and switched to XFCE
22:46:06 <ais523> well, I think it's fairly obvious that you'd click on the "applications" icon in order to get a list of applications
22:46:28 <ais523> and the third click is very obvious, given that it shows your most recently used applications and gives an option to see all of them
22:47:28 <ais523> the full text is: "Installed See 166 more results >"
22:47:33 <ais523> at the start of a short list of programs
22:47:42 <ais523> you click on that to get the full list
22:47:48 <\oren\> also, this is since when. I haven't used Ubuntu since version 11.04
22:48:27 <\oren\> well technically, I have, but not regularly
22:48:57 <shachaf> \oren\: how's your build system project doing today?
22:49:24 <\oren\> shachaf: I'm not in charge of the build system
22:49:39 <shachaf> the project to become in charge of fixing it
22:50:25 <shachaf> just learn from facebook, yo
22:50:27 <shachaf> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CE0xLl-UUAAd7nz.jpg
22:51:03 <\oren\> 11.04 is when they ruined the UI, so after wrestling with it for months learning to customize it into something resembling usabilty, I gave up and apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
22:51:14 <ais523> the first version of Unity was terrible, IIRC
22:51:18 <ais523> but it got better fairly quickly
22:51:48 <shachaf> When I tried it about six months ago it still seemed pretty scow.
22:52:02 <\oren\> it still has the menus outside their proper windows and no normal applications menu
22:52:21 <\oren\> also, a weird dock instead of a taskbar
22:53:47 <oerjan> . o O ( that sounds a bit like old macOS. wait, i have no idea what OSX does... )
22:54:12 <\oren\> oerjan: OSX is just as shit an interface as old macs
22:54:34 <shachaf> literally anything except what \oren\ is used to is utter scow
22:54:43 <ais523> shachaf: it's well-designed but badly-implemented
22:55:00 <shachaf> I'm using Cinnamon with Ubuntu now.
22:55:04 <shachaf> It's not ideal but it works.
22:55:59 <\oren\> shachaf: at first glance at the screenshot on wikipedia, cinnamon looks great
22:56:23 <oerjan> . o O ( today we'll show how to make a delicious vegan dish with cinnamon and ubuntu )
22:56:37 <\oren\> a normal desktop, a normal taskbar, a normal menu
22:58:21 <ais523> oerjan: there's actually a type of cola called ubuntu
22:58:27 <ais523> I don't know offhand whether it's vegan or not
22:58:42 <\oren\> and application menus are in the respective window for that application. WONDERFUL
22:58:48 <ais523> now I'm trying to figure out what sort of dish would contain cinnamon and cola, I'm guessing it's a dessert though
22:59:06 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
22:59:28 <shachaf> Doesn't Coca-Cola contain cinnamon?
23:06:43 <FireFly> cocaine as spice… and here I thought spice was cannabis
23:08:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:09:48 <\oren\> OH! so cinnamon is what Linux Mint uses!
23:10:11 <\oren\> that explains Mint's rise to the top of the Distrowatch
23:10:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:12:07 -!- augur has joined.
23:21:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
23:24:32 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:26:13 -!- MDude has joined.
23:30:32 -!- boily has joined.
23:34:48 -!- tromp has joined.
23:34:49 -!- huh has joined.
23:39:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:40:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:41:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:45:00 <\oren\> wait, sourceforge isn't a malware ridden hellhole anymore?
23:46:48 <\oren\> Apparently last year they stopped bundling malware with programs
23:47:23 <\oren\> http://www.ghacks.net/2016/02/10/good-news-sourceforge-stops-bundling-adware-with-installers/
23:49:46 <\oren\> Cnet is still a malware ridden hellhole though
23:53:55 <boily> Cnet is the reference hellhole.
23:55:04 <DHeadshot> Speaking of which, is there a decent site that'll let me host the free software I write that isn't open-source? I normally use dropbox but they don't like it...
23:56:58 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:58:41 <huh> Here's the thing. You said "freeware is free software." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies free software, I am telling you, specifically, in programming, no one calls freeware "free software". They're not the same thing. If you're saying "freeware" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Gratisdae, which includes things from...
23:58:42 <huh> ...GPL to shareware to public domain.
23:59:07 <huh> It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
23:59:23 -!- huh has left (".").
00:00:08 <DHeadshot> I mean Freeware in the 1990s sense. Free software that you can donate to if you so wish but otherwise just use because it's convenient.
00:00:50 <shachaf> Not to be confused with sharware, which is software distributed in a shell archive.
00:03:13 -!- Cale has joined.
00:07:41 <boily> today I managed to build an executable jar. it was way too complex.
00:10:44 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
00:14:23 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:15:40 <\oren\> hmm, I wonder what bit numbers have never been used
00:19:38 <\oren\> for example, has anyone made a 13-bit computer?
00:21:27 <boily> “The IBM System/370 could be considered the first simple 128-bit computer, as it used 128-bit floating-point registers.” ― https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/128-bit
00:24:17 <boily> Wikipédia lists 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 16, 18, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 32, 34, 36, 39, 40, 48, 50, 60 and 64-bit architectures.
00:24:52 <boily> there are also weird oddities here and there, at least one 6-trit architecture, and a bunch of decimal digit archs.
00:25:19 <\oren\> apollo guidance computer, 15 bit
00:27:31 <\oren\> oh, it was 16 bits but one bit was just a parity
00:27:54 <\oren\> good idea, given space radiation and all
00:30:34 <\oren\> every memory read and memory write was checked for parity
00:31:40 -!- tromp has joined.
00:44:22 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:45:05 -!- tromp has joined.
00:56:26 <DHeadshot> Wasn't the Sega Dreamcast 128 bit, at which point everyone gave up on the bit wars because it had got rather silly?
01:01:40 -!- ais523 has quit.
01:01:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:08:25 <fizzie> I don't think the Dreamcast is any more "128 bit" as x86 SIMDy things.
01:09:13 <fizzie> It's got a plain old-fashioned 32-bit SH-4 CPU, and a "four 32-bit floats" SIMD thing.
01:09:36 <fizzie> Although I'm sure that's good enough to use the term "128-bit" in marketing.
01:09:43 <DHeadshot> Huh. I was always told that it and the PS2 were 128-bit...
01:09:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:09:52 <shachaf> What does it mean to be n-bit?
01:10:06 <fizzie> If it was, then I'm typing this on a 256-bit system.
01:10:27 <DHeadshot> though if that was true, serial computers would be 1-bit...
01:11:26 <DHeadshot> And the original PC would be 8-bit (time division multiplexed 16-bit)
01:13:03 <fizzie> "With no further qualification, a 64-bit computer architecture generally has integer and addressing processor registers that are 64 bits wide, allowing direct support for 64-bit data types and addresses. However, a CPU might have external data buses or address buses with different sizes from the registers, even larger (the 32-bit Pentium had a 64-bit data bus, for instance[2]). The term may ...
01:13:09 <fizzie> ... also refer to the size of low-level data types, such as 64-bit floating-point numbers."
01:13:26 <fizzie> That seems to be the Wikipedia definition, which is relevant for that list above.
01:14:16 <DHeadshot> x86 is a weird one, because the smallest registers are 8 bit and the biggest up to 64 bit
01:14:49 <boily> x86 is a whole nother of weirdness.
01:15:31 <DHeadshot> The HD6303 had 2 8-bit accumulators that could be combined into a 16-bit accumulator, just as the 8086 had with AH/AL/AX, yet the HD6303 was described as 8-bit...
01:16:10 <DHeadshot> shachaf: same thing since the pentium...
01:18:32 <fizzie> The definition did say "integer and addressing".
01:19:27 <shachaf> I was just looking at the last sentence.
01:19:55 <DHeadshot> The HD6303 had a 16-bit index register, a 16-bit address bus and with it's combined 16-bit accumulator is as much 16 bit as the 8086, surely?
01:20:20 <fizzie> Z80 is in the same camp.
01:20:30 <fizzie> Yet everyone counts it as 8-bit.
01:20:36 <fizzie> Well, many people, anyway.
01:21:26 <DHeadshot> Z80 had no 16-bit accumulator. Neither did the 6502. The HD6303 did.
01:23:47 * DHeadshot has been reading a lot about the HD6303X recently...
01:24:55 <fizzie> What do you mean, no 16-bit accumulator?
01:25:02 <fizzie> It can do a lot of stuff 16-bit.
01:25:28 <fizzie> Including adding things.
01:25:55 <DHeadshot> Z80 has an 8-bit accumulator and 6 8-bit general purpose registers that can be paired to be 16-bit
01:26:13 <fizzie> That's a ridiculous distinction.
01:26:24 <fizzie> You can increment a 16-bit register pair.
01:26:26 -!- zzo38 has joined.
01:26:29 <DHeadshot> they aren't accumulators technically
01:28:19 -!- tromp has joined.
01:29:56 <fizzie> Sure, you can't do everything with them, but AIUI, you can't do everything on the 16-bit pair of the HD6303 either.
01:31:48 <fizzie> Admittedly even the Z80 user manual reserves the "accumulator" term for A. I just think it's a little silly.
01:32:36 <DHeadshot> A had functionality not afforded to the other registers, just as AX has over BX, CX and DX...
01:34:18 <fizzie> C has unique functionality as well, and it doesn't get a catchy name.
01:34:49 <fizzie> ("IN r, (C)" and "OUT (C), r".)
01:35:01 <DHeadshot> Is it accumulating functionality though?
01:35:34 <DHeadshot> In x86, they all have names: Accumulator, Base register, Counter and Data register...
01:35:49 <fizzie> HL serves as the "16-bit accumulator", arguably.
01:36:21 <zzo38> I don't know much Z80 programming; I know the 6502 programming though, which has A, X, and Y register, and the operations available on each are different (although some operations are available for more than one of them or for all of them).
01:37:00 <DHeadshot> I thought the 6502 had a B too? Or is that just the 6800 on which it was based?
01:37:40 <zzo38> 6502 has no B register
01:37:55 <DHeadshot> Maybe processors are just too different to conform to our taxonomies...
01:38:19 <DHeadshot> and with that, it's 1:40 AM here. I'm off to bed.
01:38:28 <zzo38> Although the video processor instruction set in a computer design I made has A and B registers (each 8-bits), it is somewhat based on 6502 but there are many differences.
01:43:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:47:16 <fizzie> The TI TMS320C54xx series of DSPs has two accumulators, A and B, each 40 bits wide. (In addition, it has 8 16-bit auxiliary registers AR0 to AR7, and one 16-bit temporary register T.)
01:48:02 <fizzie> I think people call it a 16-bit DSP, even though it's got those 40-bit accumulators.
01:48:04 <zzo38> O, OK I did not know that, now I do
01:48:38 <fizzie> The memory is word-addressilble with a word size of 16, so probably that's fair.
01:57:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:26:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UPDATED CHICKEN).
02:38:22 -!- adu has joined.
02:42:47 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit).
02:55:19 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
03:06:01 -!- pledis_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
03:06:08 -!- pledis has joined.
03:19:00 -!- adu has joined.
03:23:08 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/AokWHh.jpg
03:23:17 <\oren\> how am i flying i dont even
03:23:58 <\oren\> not even remotely shaped like an aeroplane
03:32:01 -!- tromp has joined.
03:33:21 <krok_> maybe there should be an #esoteric-offtopic
03:33:50 <int-e> supporting the center of gravity... why wouldn't it fly?
03:34:33 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:36:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
03:54:41 <quintopia> @tell krok_ maybe there should be an #esoteric-offtopic <- that's what #esoteric-blah is for, i think
03:55:51 <shachaf> I thought that's what #esoteric was for, and #esoteric-blah is for spam.
04:01:13 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
04:47:43 -!- adu has joined.
05:01:58 -!- tromp has joined.
05:14:44 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:15:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:16:44 -!- linuxenia has joined.
05:26:10 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
05:42:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:43:50 -!- augur has joined.
05:49:51 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:16:30 -!- tromp has joined.
06:20:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:28:33 -!- augur has joined.
06:32:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:34:45 -!- iovoid has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:37:28 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:06:03 <zzo38> I made up a preprocessor for OpenGL shader program to be able to write fractions with slashes, and then I wrote this fragment program: http://sprunge.us/HcjK Do you like this?
07:17:29 -!- tromp has joined.
07:21:31 -!- augur has joined.
07:21:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
07:24:02 -!- icnonzero has joined.
07:24:35 -!- icnonzero has changed nick to iczero.
07:24:46 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
07:26:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:37:53 -!- iovoid has joined.
08:11:29 -!- linuxenia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:45:02 -!- spockers has joined.
08:59:16 -!- oerjan has joined.
09:09:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
09:17:35 -!- tromp has joined.
09:21:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:42:16 -!- mroman has joined.
09:43:08 <mroman> It's probably time for cgi.hs to display a textarea instead of a one line input box :D
09:47:51 <mroman> I can make that conditionally
09:47:56 <mroman> so you don't need it when building without IO
09:48:02 <mroman> unless that was a complaint about HDBC itself
09:48:19 <mroman> Burlesque can now do DB stuff
09:48:55 <int-e> setup: The program 'mysql_config' is required but it could not be found <--- hdbc-mysql doesn't build without mysql, so making that optional would be a good idea, I think
09:52:16 <int-e> (and I expect it'll want the mysql client library as well... just didn't get to that point)
09:52:58 <mroman> then i'll add some more ifdefs
09:57:07 <mroman> ok. pull and try again.
09:59:05 <mroman> need MySQL so I can write websites in it .
09:59:23 <mroman> I'm not planning on it.
10:00:13 <mroman> (and the support is lousy. Not all data types are even mapped)
10:00:28 <mroman> (Burlesque is lousy. The code is so underdocumented and garbage)
10:00:44 <mroman> (There's like runStack, runStack' and runStack'' and I have no idea what they were all for :D)
10:01:18 <mroman> the way to maintain Burlesque is to ignore all the crapiness and just keep adding stuff.
10:01:43 <mroman> If you don't know what existing stuff exactly does, don't change it, just add more stuff even if it's redundant :D
10:01:56 <int-e> . o O ( where "Burlesque" is a placeholder for any of 99% of all software projects on Earth )
10:02:45 <mroman> http://codepad.org/bILXgFqW <- it know even has better syntax
10:02:50 <mroman> like procedures and stuff
10:03:05 <mroman> but it's just hacked on top of stuff that was hacked on top of some other stuff
10:04:27 <int-e> just say you're building your code on top of an existing framework.
10:04:47 <mroman> you could now create wrapper procs for all builtins
10:04:54 <mroman> like proc reverse { <- } proc add { ?+ }
10:05:02 <mroman> and it would start to look like a decent language :D
10:05:29 <mroman> also javascript style objects are already on the way
10:05:50 <mroman> now that I have I/O I can go completely nuts
10:07:19 <mroman> and this point I'm sure to win "crappiest language on earth" AND "crappiest implementation on earth"
10:08:09 <mroman> Burlesque is 5 years old!
10:08:27 <mroman> so we have 5 years of experience and 5 years of supporting customers!
10:08:39 <mroman> and not yet one customer has ever complained
10:08:55 <int-e> anyway it builds... and I've updated it on the VM
10:09:38 <mroman> so I guess I can update the link on my website
10:10:05 <int-e> I had an old version of the cgi there anyway, but I guess you saw that
10:11:20 <mroman> %in? ln{WD^p'/;;[~'-;;-]{}j_+j_+ri}m[ ><{0!!j0!!==}gb{J0!!0!!j)[~++@1024?/@1024?/@1024?/{}j_+j+]}m[sp
10:11:24 <mroman> that's some code I wrote today
10:11:51 <mroman> to parse some log file with file sizes
10:13:04 <oerjan> . o O ( you should make a build system in it, right \oren\ ? )
10:13:57 <mroman> there was a directory with files in it and I need to copy them to some other system through another system and there's not enough space on disk to do it in a whole bunch
10:14:15 <mroman> so the code above groups the files into "groups of files" and their file sizes
10:14:25 <mroman> so I know how/what I can copy them
10:15:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:18:28 <mroman> gotta go with time and paralell processing is a nice feature
10:20:44 <mroman> there are so many languages like Burlesque, Golfscript, Flogscript
10:21:11 <mroman> thanks to PPCPG on stackoverflow.
10:21:41 <mroman> so I need to add features to be able to make Burlesque stand out from the rest :p
10:22:25 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
10:31:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: In M:tG, remember I complained how the phrasing of the Spreading Seas ability is really opaque, and I suggested a reworded ability could make the enchanted land be a copy of a template pristine Island straight from the Gatherer?
10:32:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: I just found a precedent for that: Peacekeeper Avatar (Vanguard) http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=182281 works that way.
10:32:57 -!- spockers has left ("bye http://i.imgur.com/nkzOWAv.jpg").
10:42:45 -!- idris-bot has joined.
10:49:46 <mroman> also redecorated the webpage (http://mroman.ch/burlesque/) :p
10:57:39 <mroman> Can't I just hire an indian to write the documentation for me :(
10:58:06 <mroman> Or any other person from countries I could actually afford to hire anybody.
11:00:14 <mroman> or I could get some of my students to do it.
11:14:10 <b_jonas> mroman: if you have students, that can help with boring tasks like that. just make sure to prioritize and not overwork them, so they can also grade exams and teach and stuff like that.
11:15:47 <Taneb> I need to apply to be a student again soo
11:18:29 -!- tromp has joined.
11:22:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:35:16 -!- boily has joined.
11:46:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: yliolleh).
11:47:04 <boily> @tell oerjan !nitam najrøb
12:13:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLOTHE CHICKEN).
12:19:26 -!- tromp has joined.
12:21:18 <mroman> well you can't really ask students for personal favours.
12:21:30 <mroman> it's probably not illegal
12:23:06 <b_jonas> mroman: of course not. the task they help you in has to be a professional one.
12:23:27 <b_jonas> you're not asking favors, you're giving them tasks for their employment.
12:23:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:47:39 -!- tromp has joined.
13:09:54 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:09:55 -!- mecha_magpie has joined.
13:29:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:10:46 -!- tromp has joined.
14:15:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
14:33:06 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
14:55:41 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:08:12 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:10:24 -!- LKoen has joined.
15:25:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
15:26:19 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit).
15:49:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:03:01 -!- augur has joined.
16:14:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
16:19:25 -!- Zarutian has joined.
16:38:36 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
16:54:29 -!- HackEgo has joined.
16:55:26 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:59:26 <b_jonas> oh hey look! everyday heroes comics ("http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/") has posted two strips and a filler strips, after a hiatus of like 11 months.
17:00:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: everydayheroeslist: not found
17:00:39 <\oren\> smack jeeves? I remember there was a browser toolbar named ask jeeves a long time ago
17:01:10 <b_jonas> \oren\: I think that's because Jeeves is like some nickname for some common given name in American or something
17:01:53 <Taneb> There was a search engine called Ask Jeeves
17:02:09 <Taneb> After the PG Wodehouse character from Jeeves and Wooster, famously played by Stephen Fry
17:03:16 <\oren\> Taneb: I only remember the toolbar, which was really hard to uninstall, you had to delete fiels and registry keys manually
17:03:38 <Taneb> I think Ask Jeeves was more of a thing in the UK
17:03:56 <Taneb> It folded in, like, 2007??? because everyone and their mum was using Google
17:04:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh, like the skype browser plugin that you can disable in the plugin settings, but keeps re-enabling itself every time skype updates itself?
17:05:38 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:06:20 <b_jonas> and replaces every sequence of digits with a link to call that interpreted as a phone number in skype, everywhere in every webpage?
17:06:45 -!- ais523 has quit.
17:06:55 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:07:39 <\oren\> oh god, that sounds like one of the worst browser cancers of the XP era, the dreaded red advertisement links
17:07:54 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, except that one is from the windows 7 era
17:09:05 <\oren\> wow you'd think microsoft would sanction skype for doing that crap
17:09:15 <b_jonas> it's worse than that web-based mailing list archive viewer they used to have on the gnu servers, which thought that if an at sign followed by a letter anywhere in the text of the mail, then it totally has to remove the surrounding part of the text for "spam protection" just in case it's an email address. mangles source code (especially perl) snippets you post on the mailing list unreadable through the archives.
17:09:42 <b_jonas> \oren\: how is microsoft involved? this was before microsoft bought skype, and the plugin applies for the firefox browser
17:10:01 <b_jonas> I think the firefox devs eventually broke the auto-enabler though
17:10:13 <b_jonas> but it took a heck of a long time
17:10:39 <b_jonas> there may have been other skype plugins to non-XUL browsers too, I just don't know about thos
17:11:01 <b_jonas> I wasn't much of an internet explorer user
17:12:04 -!- tromp has joined.
17:12:33 <\oren\> apparently the red link disease still exists but they're green and double underlined these days
17:14:23 <\oren\> I dunno I never trusted cool cursor programs again after that.
17:16:39 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
17:17:47 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
17:20:12 <Zarutian> wasnt there some years back some .ico and .cur collections offered for free with no strings attached? I downloaded one and it was just a .zip file with instructions where to drag and drop the files. No turing executable code at all and all the files passed virus checkers and format conformity checkers too.
17:20:36 <ais523> Zarutian: well those don't make money, so they don't get advertised aggressively
17:20:48 <ais523> a few years, like every third advert was for "free smileys" or the like
17:21:10 <Zarutian> I have been wondering for a long while, intermittently, what that was about? My current hyppothesis is someone was just sick of seeing badly done icons and cursors.
17:21:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit).
17:21:37 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:22:38 <\oren\> Zarutian: it was about spreading trojans
17:22:40 <Zarutian> though there were some intresting adverts on the download page. (Though no fake download buttons)
17:23:02 <\oren\> oh you mean the one you found
17:24:15 <\oren\> well I mean I made by own font with 20000 characters because none of the ones I had suited my tastes perfectly
17:25:04 <b_jonas> \oren\: wait, it has 20000 characters now? how many non-hangul ones?
17:25:13 <\oren\> so maybe a rogue graphic artist wanted to spread good icons around
17:25:39 <Zarutian> that I have seen but advertising it? Though it might be that the author(s) wanted to spread those cursors and icons and used the advertising revenue from the download page ads to pay for their own ads.
17:25:52 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 38m 47s ago: !nitam najrøb
17:25:59 <int-e> Zarutian: it could also be malware
17:26:03 <\oren\> there are 20758 characters
17:26:24 <Zarutian> int-e: nope, as I said. Passed virus scanners and format checkers.
17:26:54 <\oren\> there are 11,172 precomposed hangul
17:27:32 <HackEgo> dc: Could not open file 20758 11172 - p
17:27:42 <b_jonas> \oren\: maybe you should add a line to the bottom of allchars.htm telling how many non-hangul chars you have
17:27:45 <\oren\> ` dc <<'20758 11172 - p'
17:27:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
17:27:52 <\oren\> `` dc <<'20758 11172 - p'
17:27:53 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: warning: here-document at line 4 delimited by end-of-file (wanted `20758 11172 - p')
17:27:54 <Zarutian> virus scanners cant catch everything but if format checkers dont catch it then it is very unlikely that they could exploit something like libpng vulernabilities undetected
17:27:58 <int-e> \oren\: one more <
17:27:58 <b_jonas> there was a quote I wanted to add
17:28:07 <\oren\> `` dc <<<'20758 11172 - p'
17:28:25 <b_jonas> `addquote <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI
17:28:27 <HackEgo> 1308) <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI
17:28:31 <HackEgo> 1308) <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI
17:28:40 <b_jonas> when did the bot come back?
17:28:52 <b_jonas> is the wiki back as writable too now?
17:29:19 <ais523> huh, \oren\ is in the same timezone as me
17:29:26 <\oren\> (according to my server's time zone)
17:29:27 <ais523> \oren\: you don't live in Hexham do you?
17:29:35 <int-e> 17:54:28 --- HackEgo has joined #esoteric
17:29:45 <zzo38> It is still locked. When will you unlock it?
17:29:51 <int-e> (you already sorted out the time zone)
17:30:02 <int-e> \oren\: your clock is 3 minutes fast, I think
17:30:12 <\oren\> not sure how to fix that
17:30:34 <int-e> (barely resisting the temptation to say that it's 57 minutes slow)
17:30:40 <ais523> zzo38: there are two copies of the wiki; the "locked" one is the backup copy, which is permanently read-only (because changes to it wouldn't affect the main copy)
17:30:47 <\oren\> is there a variant of the date command that allows me to subtract
17:31:15 <ais523> `` date -d '1 hour ago'
17:31:16 <HackEgo> Fri Feb 3 16:31:12 UTC 2017
17:31:29 <b_jonas> ``` date +%s # unix epoch timestamp
17:31:51 <ais523> also I'm disappointed that it isn't using a new zealand variant of UTC
17:32:01 <oerjan> <b_jonas> wait, the bot's back now? <-- OOOOOOH
17:32:09 <zzo38> ais523: Then how to use it?
17:32:20 <b_jonas> ais523: and it's the winter, so the people in Iceland (who are in permanent winter) are in the same timezone as you know as well
17:32:33 <HackEgo> Fri Feb 3 17:32:29 UTC 2017
17:32:51 <ais523> zzo38: once the main server is back up, the esolangs.org name will be directed back at it (although that has to be done manually, probably by fizzie)
17:33:09 <\oren\> so, sudo date -s '3 minutes ago'?
17:33:58 <\oren\> hehe the clock went back
17:34:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes. I usually write it as sudo date -s "now -180sec" or something, then kill -9 $$ after that so I don't accidentally repeat it from the bash history
17:34:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: since you're here, let me repeat what I tried to say from earlier
17:35:16 <zzo38> b_jonas: OK. Maybe I missed it before
17:35:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: In M:tG, remember I complained how the phrasing of the Spreading Seas ability is really opaque, and I suggested a reworded ability could make the enchanted land be a copy of a template pristine Island straight from the Gatherer?
17:35:33 <b_jonas> I just found a precedent for that: Peacekeeper Avatar (Vanguard) http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=182281 works that way.
17:36:29 <b_jonas> Now mind you, that might not mean much, because there's also the Momir Vig avatar card that creates a copy of a random creature card from all the cards available in the format or something
17:36:33 <zzo38> OK, but I think that way isn't very good.
17:36:45 <zzo38> (nor is the Momir Vig avatar, actually.)
17:37:13 <b_jonas> but that's a different problem
17:37:17 <zzo38> Effects should not depend on the database.
17:37:28 <ais523> b_jonas: IMO the phrasing should be "Enchanted land is an Island with '{T}: add {U} to your mana pool' and no other abilities"
17:37:44 <ais523> (note: this would work under the current rules but would be redundant; however it would allow the rules to be simplified)
17:37:52 <zzo38> ais523: I don't really like that either though.
17:38:02 <b_jonas> ais523: wouldn't that apply the ability removal too high in the layers?
17:38:38 <ais523> it doesn't matter what the layer sequence is, because the "no other abilities" doesn't remove the ability that Spreading Seas grants itself due to the word "other"
17:38:46 <b_jonas> as in, wouldn't it remove abilities added by eg. Urborg, Tomb?
17:38:48 <oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> Still, those are *real people* we're disappointifying. Not just #esoteric regulars.
17:38:49 <HackEgo> 1309) <fizzie> Still, those are *real people* we're disappointifying. Not just #esoteric regulars.
17:39:11 <ais523> b_jonas: oh, I wasn't trying to replicate the exact current interactions of the card with other cards
17:39:11 <b_jonas> ais523: no, I mean, it would remove too many abilities
17:39:23 <b_jonas> ais523: I didn't try to _exactly_ replicate it either
17:39:27 <b_jonas> just close enoguh to rarely make a difference
17:39:50 <b_jonas> copying a land on it differs too, eg. it would turn Dryad Arbor to a noncreature
17:40:26 <zzo38> The subtype gives it the implicit ability "{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool" (i.e. that ability does not come directly from its text). I think that "normal Island" or something like that would work better to not change it too much.
17:40:33 <ais523> it wouldn't make Dryad Arbor a noncreature, it doesn't change permanent types
17:40:51 <b_jonas> ais523: no, I mean _my_ copying solution would turn Dryad Arbor to a noncreature
17:40:54 <ais523> fwiw, I think Islands should have an explicit ability "{T}: add {U} to your mana pool"
17:42:05 <b_jonas> ais523: explicit as in not granted by the subtype?
17:42:19 <ais523> printed on the card, too!
17:42:58 <b_jonas> and you're not saying this only because the first printed versions of them had them printed, right? (I have some Fourth Edition Islands in fact).
17:43:18 <alercah> nah, don't need to print it on the card
17:44:24 <b_jonas> I don't really know if they should have an explicit ability, but if they would, I think it might be better if the rules said that the big mana symbol in the text box represents that ability, rather than printing the text.
17:44:35 <ais523> b_jonas: the first printed versions likely followed the same reasoning I am
17:44:48 <ais523> apparently they thought the giant mana symbol version was less confusing for new players
17:44:58 <ais523> although this has lead to a lot of players thinking that llanowar elves was some sort of tutor
17:45:23 <b_jonas> Printing the ability certainly makes teaching beginners easier (there's always beginners who keep confusing lands with mana), but it's distracting for later players, because basic lands are so common and so varied in appearance that the giant mana symbol makes them easier to recognize. You don't have to spend time reading the ability.
17:45:35 <ais523> hmm, maybe I should get the rules for my TCG that shachaf keeps pestering me about finished
17:45:41 <ais523> I had a fairly neat fix for this sort of issue
17:45:45 <b_jonas> "apparently they thought the giant mana symbol version was less confusing for new players" -- what? really?
17:45:57 <\oren\> I've updated the allchars.txt to include a count of non-hangul
17:46:49 <b_jonas> ais523: um... most TCGs don't have land cards producing mana, so the whole problem doesn't even come up. besides, it's easier to fix these things when you don't have to be compatible with, what, 20 years of history.
17:47:48 <b_jonas> \oren\: wow, 20000 is a lot
17:47:57 <int-e> . o O ( Turing-Complete Game )
17:48:32 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't think a newly defined trading card game would likely be turing complete
17:48:34 <ais523> int-e: like M:tG, you mean? :-)
17:48:47 <ais523> b_jonas: it's typically only a matter of the right cards being printed
17:48:49 <b_jonas> it takes lots of expansions to get enough crazy cards for that
17:48:54 <ais523> in theory you could have a card that's Turing-complete by itself
17:48:59 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
17:49:09 <b_jonas> but most games don't aim for that
17:49:41 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtractpocalypse was inspired by FTL's scripting system, for what it's worth
17:49:58 <ais523> although that only has four variables, and the TCness proof needs more
17:50:15 <b_jonas> and I think some games actively try to avoid infinite resource completion by some resource ranking, so that every game ends in a finite time, and the game tree is limited by a smallish ordinal
17:51:51 <b_jonas> resource ranking as in some ordering of the kinds of resources such that you can get any of a kind of resource only by spending some of a resource that's greater in the ordering, and every resource is quantized so you can only have natural number of amounts of them
17:56:04 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:04 -!- deltab has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- BooK_ has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- viznut has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:11 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:17 -!- pdxleif has joined.
17:56:18 -!- ineiros has joined.
17:56:18 -!- deltab has joined.
17:56:18 -!- BooK has joined.
17:56:19 -!- quintopia has joined.
17:56:20 -!- viznut has joined.
17:56:21 -!- pelegreno has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:21 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:23 -!- diginet has joined.
17:56:32 -!- vifino has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:32 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:32 -!- L3viathan has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:32 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split).
17:56:40 -!- L3viathan has joined.
17:56:40 <ais523> btw, there was just a wallop warning that this sort of thing might happen
17:56:41 -!- clog has joined.
17:56:44 -!- trn has joined.
17:56:51 -!- vifino has joined.
17:56:51 <ais523> (repeated very short netsplits, that is)
17:57:03 -!- L3viathan has changed nick to Guest78015.
17:57:49 -!- pelegreno has joined.
17:59:33 -!- shachaf has joined.
18:00:57 -!- lambdabot has joined.
18:01:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:10:04 * oerjan uses curl --connect-to to check that the real wiki is up
18:15:29 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:17:20 * int-e has edited /etc/hosts
18:17:37 <int-e> and then I realized that I don't really have anything to edit on the wiki.
18:17:41 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:18:37 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split).
18:19:55 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
18:23:00 -!- newsham has joined.
18:23:10 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:24:16 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:24:23 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:27:11 <fizzie> Oh, it's back? I didn't even notice.
18:27:15 <fizzie> Let me flip the DNS then.
18:28:28 <zzo38> I think that Islands should not have the explicit ability "{T}: Add {U} into your mana pool", but it should have that printed as reminder text.
18:28:54 <zzo38> (Except for special versions with flavor text, which would omit the reminder text)
18:29:32 <int-e> do they still make those lands with just the name and artwork?
18:31:21 <ais523> int-e: they save them for special occasions
18:31:28 <ais523> the last time was Battle for Zendikar block
18:32:16 <ais523> which is widely regarded as one of the worst blocks to be released recently; they used full-art lands and Masterpiece cards in an attempt to get people to buy it anyway
18:32:50 <ais523> worst both in terms of undesirable cards and bad internal balance/playability
18:34:00 <fizzie> In retrospect, I should've set a TTL of less than a day for the temporary name.
18:34:11 <fizzie> Now it'll take a day again to propagate to.
18:34:23 <ais523> I tend to use 5-minute TTLs if there's any chance that I might need to change it in the near future
18:34:35 <fizzie> That would've been reasonable.
18:35:05 <fizzie> Let's plop the wiki bridge back up as well.
18:35:12 -!- augur has joined.
18:35:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:35:22 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
18:36:19 <ais523> anyway, I visited the site and got the editable version
18:36:25 <ais523> so I think it's working?
18:36:50 <fizzie> Yes, I can see the right things with dig.
18:37:14 <fizzie> With the right @nameservers, that is.
18:38:03 <fizzie> In 9684 seconds, I should see it even without.
18:39:36 <int-e> wow, TTL is 55799 here
18:39:47 <int-e> (I'll survive that long)
18:40:11 <oerjan> . o O ( i thought you said you changed /etc/hosts )
18:41:00 <int-e> oerjan: I did. I can still query nameservers ;-)
18:41:41 <\oren\> I made a program to run every iteration of a long shell script to show it hasn't frozen
18:41:52 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/stars.c.htm
18:42:20 <oerjan> hm, there should be a way to ask a nameserver to drop a name from cache.
18:42:29 <\oren\> it displays a random goofy unicode symbol each second
18:43:12 <\oren\> if the symbol keeps changing, the script hasn't frozen
18:43:30 <int-e> oerjan: tricky, on whose authority?
18:43:56 <oerjan> int-e: there might be some throttling, in which case it should be harmless...
18:44:35 <int-e> oerjan: I'm trying to figure out whether this would simplify dns cache poisoning or make it harder.
18:44:38 <oerjan> hm except that might DOS the central one.
18:45:00 <oerjan> (if you sent it to many DNS servers)
18:45:05 -!- augur has joined.
18:45:24 <int-e> (but I suspect that overall it would make it simpler... and yes there's a potential DoS vector there)
18:53:43 <\oren\> the solution to DoS is to use DOS
18:55:08 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:55:24 <ais523> on Wikipedia, the only throttling used to be that "drop cache" requests had to be sent by POST unless you were logged in
18:55:31 <ais523> (to prevent them being hit by accident by spiders)
18:55:45 <ais523> it wouldn't surprise me if they added a CAPTCHA to it though
18:56:56 <\oren\> Hmm, maybe I'll write a Jelly interpreter in C
18:57:26 <quintopia> b_jonas: before i had to reboot, it seemed you were talking about game designer intentionally building hydrae out of resources. any evidence of that?
18:58:50 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
18:59:11 <wob_jonas> quintopia: hydrae in what sense? I don't understand
19:01:54 <wob_jonas> quintopia: the only direct evidence I have is the Irregulars' goldfish cube, where the writeup tells it was designed that way:
19:02:04 <ais523> \oren\: make sure you use a bignum library, it's fairly important to many Jelly programs
19:03:14 <wob_jonas> http://www.mezzacotta.net/magic/goldfish/Cube_Design.html
19:04:31 <wob_jonas> quintopia: but I think to some amount the thought is there in M:tG design too, even if they don't completely insist on it. and sometimes they change the ordering, eg. recently they decided you can't just sacrifice your permanents for free in newer sets, despite that old sets have a lot of abilities with just sacrificing a creature as a cost,
19:05:00 <wob_jonas> so they're effectively moving sacrificing stuff up in the ordering, and can let you gain resources from stuff dying more easily
19:05:36 <wob_jonas> quintopia: even at the basic level, cards generally want to move in the order library -> hand -> stack -> battlefield -> graveyard -> exile and less often backwards, which is a form of this
19:12:52 -!- tromp has joined.
19:17:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:18:33 <zzo38> Where do the ante zone and command zone fit into this?
19:18:38 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:24:04 -!- otherbot has joined.
19:26:01 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
19:40:58 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:43:13 -!- zzo38 has left.
19:43:16 -!- zzo38 has joined.
19:46:43 -!- Cale has joined.
19:50:26 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:51:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:56:11 <\oren\> hmm, there's javascript and coffeescript, but no lattescript or mochascript or cappucinoscript
19:56:20 <HackEgo> An FSM is a state machine with noodly appendages.
19:56:29 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Quit requested by iczero: ok actually update node).
19:56:55 -!- otherbot has joined.
19:57:11 <\oren\> or what about mate script
19:57:44 <oerjan> . o O ( G'day, World! )
19:58:52 <\oren\> oerjan: I was thinking of the beverage made with yerba
19:59:05 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit).
19:59:23 -!- otherbot has joined.
20:04:32 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:04:48 -!- otherbot has joined.
20:07:09 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:07:28 -!- otherbot has joined.
20:08:07 -!- iczero has changed nick to [iczero].
20:09:34 -!- [iczero] has changed nick to iczero.
20:11:11 -!- iczero has changed nick to [[[[[[[[[[[[[.
20:11:26 -!- [[[[[[[[[[[[[ has changed nick to [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[.
20:11:33 -!- [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ has changed nick to [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]].
20:11:52 -!- [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]] has changed nick to [[[[[[[ohai]]]]].
20:11:56 -!- [[[[[[[ohai]]]]] has changed nick to iczero.
20:23:08 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:24:15 <Zarutian> I am wondering why freenode has these long timeouts, more infrequent timer interrupts or is it so that if someone is on flaky wifi isnt spamming channels with join and quit messages?
20:25:21 -!- krok has joined.
20:25:52 -!- krok has changed nick to Guest98467.
20:25:59 -!- Guest98467 has quit (Client Quit).
20:26:18 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:28:26 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:32:45 <ais523> Zarutian: I often have a flaky connectoin and reach really high timeouts withotu disconnecting
20:43:14 <\oren\> I can't wait for LIFI to become commercial
20:45:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
20:58:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:58:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
20:58:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:00:36 <\oren\> it means that you have a blinking LED that blinks so fast it transmits the internet into your computer
21:02:52 <\oren\> as much internet as needed
21:03:24 <ais523> oerjan: internets have a tendency to get connected to each other, which makes them just a single internet again
21:03:27 <ais523> so there's only one really big one
21:05:05 <ais523> there is more than one internet though (the other large ones tend to be military)
21:12:38 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:13:40 <fizzie> There's a fancy hacky optical point-to-point network thing.
21:13:50 -!- tromp has joined.
21:13:54 <fizzie> http://ronja.twibright.com/
21:17:40 <fizzie> There's just something appealing of having a BEAM of DATA.
21:17:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:18:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:25:26 <zzo38> I want to use a single-file key/value database where the keys are 32-bit numbers and the values are arbitrary binary data, in a way which is suitable for both reading and writing but mostly for reading.
21:35:19 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:09:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
22:24:29 -!- mecha_magpie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:33:24 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
22:36:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:46:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:52:49 <\oren\> zzo38: if the value can be limited to for eixample, 1 KB, then you can use a 4 TB sparse file
22:54:56 <\oren\> and just use lseek64(fildes, key * 1024, SEEK_SET); and then read the value
22:55:59 <\oren\> however this may be considered a heinous abuse of a file system
22:57:50 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:59:55 <zzo38> I do not want to use sparse files.
23:03:27 <\oren\> ok then, a simple and easy method would be to use SQLite
23:04:38 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:05:29 <\oren\> a SQLite database is a single file
23:14:39 -!- tromp has joined.
23:19:04 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:46:16 -!- adu has joined.
23:48:45 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:49:51 -!- Cale has joined.
23:55:02 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
23:56:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:59:47 <LKoen> zzo38: I have collected chess symbols for all the pieces from orwell chess; they can be printed and pasted on checkers pieces to make a physical set https://www.docdroid.net/dc9snGI/printable.pdf.html
00:06:28 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:15:38 -!- tromp has joined.
00:20:24 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:27:04 -!- tromp has joined.
00:37:32 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:46:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:01:50 -!- lleu has joined.
01:01:50 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host).
01:01:50 -!- lleu has joined.
01:02:13 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:09:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
01:12:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
01:23:55 -!- tromp has joined.
01:47:00 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:50:36 <zzo38> \oren\: The program is not written in C though; it is JavaScript
01:51:09 <zzo38> The file format used by SQLite4 may do, but I do not have the implementation in JavaScript
01:52:53 <zzo38> There is; version 4 uses a key/value storage as a backend storage format, where the key and value are both binary data. However I only needed a number as the key and not arbitrary data.
01:54:30 <shachaf> What's wrong with a format that supports arbitrary data as the key?
01:54:59 <zzo38> Mainly, is overdoing for my purpose.
01:56:01 <shachaf> Is sqlite4's key-value database good?
01:56:26 <shachaf> They say it's faster than LevelDB but they don't say for what. For everything?
01:56:27 <zzo38> I don't know actually
01:56:37 <zzo38> I have never used it
02:11:15 <krok_> i literally haven't seen any discussion of esoteric languages since i first joined this channel
02:13:36 <yorick> I should talk here, otherwise people forget I exist
02:13:45 <yorick> krok_: it happens sometimes
02:13:52 <yorick> I've seen it once or twice. I've been here for years
02:14:00 <zzo38> krok_: We don't always have, but if you have question about them, you can ask
02:27:09 <DHeadshot> I really ought to post my language somewhere so I can add it to the Wiki and have a source...
02:34:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:37:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:37:57 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:05:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:06:11 -!- tromp has joined.
03:13:53 <alercah> tfw an entire evening of coding amounts to figuring out how to get the compiler installed
03:32:03 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
03:41:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Urbanangel * New user account
04:14:28 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
04:15:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
04:17:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50833&oldid=50824 * Urbanangel * (+204) /* Introductions */
04:17:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50834 * Urbanangel * (+1400) Created page with "=== How it works === There are two variables, known as variable1 and variable2. You change these to manipulate code, output ASCII characters and change your position in the co..."
04:17:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50835&oldid=50834 * Urbanangel * (+1) /* Commands */
04:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50836&oldid=50835 * Urbanangel * (-1) /* Commands */
04:18:15 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:19:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50837&oldid=50836 * Urbanangel * (-4) /* Hello World */
04:19:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50838&oldid=50837 * Urbanangel * (+1) /* Hello World */
04:19:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50839&oldid=50838 * Urbanangel * (+0) /* Hello World */
04:40:33 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:02:42 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
05:08:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:46:37 -!- augur has joined.
05:51:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:33:31 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
06:36:25 -!- Jafet has joined.
06:42:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:05:56 -!- Sgeo has joined.
07:16:33 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:22:51 <\oren\> suppose I have a set of exactly 4 values. would it be faster to call qsort or to do some fixed set of compare and swaps
07:23:58 <\oren\> more generally, at what fixed array size does it become faster to call a sort function than to do some fixed set of
07:24:18 <\oren\> if(a[i]>a[j])swap(a,i,j);
07:25:06 <\oren\> I can sort 4 values with 5 compare swaps
07:30:59 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:31:33 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_network hth
07:32:53 <izabera> qsort is a generic function
07:33:13 <izabera> it's never faster than any alternative
07:33:37 <izabera> calling an indirect function instead of cmp is too expensive
07:38:02 <\oren\> izabera: ok, but at what point does a sorting network become less efficient than an algorithm where ther sequence of comparisons is not fixed?
07:38:22 <\oren\> shachaf: thanks for the pointer
07:40:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:45:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:06:19 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
08:10:17 -!- myname has joined.
08:33:43 <Jafet> qsort may be faster if the program runs for less time than the programmer spent writing it
08:42:13 -!- tromp has joined.
08:46:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
09:06:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
09:51:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:14:57 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
10:43:28 -!- tromp has joined.
10:47:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:01:06 -!- LKoen has joined.
11:37:37 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
11:44:32 -!- nooga has joined.
11:57:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
11:57:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
11:57:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
11:59:22 -!- tromp has joined.
12:03:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:07:14 <HackEgo> The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
12:07:23 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7
12:07:25 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is n9y25ah7
12:10:01 -!- augur has joined.
12:11:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:14:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:23:49 -!- mroman has joined.
12:29:19 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
12:44:41 -!- tromp has joined.
12:58:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:00:17 -!- kiki` has joined.
13:09:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
13:12:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:22:11 -!- adu has joined.
13:31:57 -!- boily has joined.
13:33:20 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:34:50 <HackEgo> maple//Maples are the sacred trees of Canada, from which a true Canadian can make anything.
13:35:18 <nooga> I always liked maples
13:35:20 <fizzie> boily: You don't have to be that happy it was about Canada.
13:35:41 <boily> the HackEgo is alive!
13:36:19 <int-e> fizzie: I'm sure we can have two potms for a good cause
13:45:22 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
13:46:20 -!- tromp has joined.
13:48:02 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
13:51:45 -!- adu has joined.
13:52:19 -!- Arif1 has joined.
13:52:30 -!- Arif1 has left.
14:08:21 -!- VisualizeR has joined.
14:11:19 <boily> `relcome VisualizeR
14:11:21 <HackEgo> VisualizeR: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:22:49 <fungot> int-e: not running os x, you don't ever *have* to do that.
14:29:12 <boily> VisualizeR: what brings you here? do you like esolanging? what is your stance about roast beef?
14:30:25 <VisualizeR> I'm designing games, so I'm an artist. but I figured this is more about programming which I'm not so good at. roast beef is fine once in a month but I wouldn't want to have it any day.
14:31:18 <boily> nice! yes, this is about programming, at least the moments it is about programming...
14:32:02 <VisualizeR> haha yeah its always good to tunnel and come back some place and socialize, right?
14:33:46 <VisualizeR> I just set up freenode and the user count in the list was promising. so..is this about esoterics or not? and if so how is it connected to order information? does it help to shape benefitial thought patterns? what is the goal?
14:36:15 <boily> esoteric programming is fringe programming. it is exploring the limits of its meaning through creativity, poetry, absurdity and mental ankle sprains.
14:38:00 <VisualizeR> I'm aware of what esoterics is but I don't see how that helps in developing an efficient language. a coder might understand a side joke you put in there on purpose, but the computer running it doesn't.
14:40:17 <boily> we don't usually care about efficiency, just possibility. of course we sometimes discuss about regular languages.
14:41:40 <boily> there are a few mathematicians in this channel, a bunch of software developers, many bots, one cyborg, and fungot.
14:41:41 <fungot> boily: it would need bindings to c++ and see what happens? did you try to index it out of two apples, a roll of string and a piece of functional perl: perl -e ' print &&sub my f shift; return sub my n shift; return 1 if n 2; return &&f(f)(n-1) &&f(f)(n-2); )(8), " deep copies" and " after
14:43:06 <nooga> VisualizeR: esolangs are games in some sense
14:43:17 <int-e> . o O ( I suspect boily's better at spraining ankles than most )
14:44:20 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Mentalism | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
14:44:36 <HackEgo> Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
14:44:53 <VisualizeR> I see, you're meta philosophising about how it should be and how to get there. in order to make possibilities graspable I'd always try to visualize them. So personally I think visual coding is the best way to achieve permutations when you already set up a system. the end user should be able to operate it at will and create them.
14:46:40 <int-e> boily: wait, a cyborg?
14:48:04 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
14:48:25 <int-e> well, absent really :)
14:48:48 <int-e> we still need a spider who talks about endoskeletons ( https://xkcd.com/1530/ )
14:49:18 <HackEgo> Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke.
14:51:09 <nooga> well, I thought about this recently and it occured to me that programming can be seen as just "instructing machines to take information from one abstract place, transform it and then put it in another abstract place"
14:52:16 <nooga> but there are no constraints on the form of information and the machines at all
14:52:58 <VisualizeR> yup basically like ribosomes copying snippets of dna to form proteins, translation and transcription
14:53:22 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:54:03 -!- tromp has joined.
14:56:43 -!- LKoen has joined.
14:59:17 <nooga> so then, visual programming is just another notation that helps people to think about what goes where and how the computation looks like
14:59:47 <nooga> but there are machines all the way down
15:00:41 <VisualizeR> they're just tools that compute faster
15:01:51 <nooga> but you can do that without any special "visual language"
15:02:17 <VisualizeR> a modular system that allows for combinations is the best system to have in my eyes. sure it only involves everything within system, bus this is why you need to made sure it has support for extentions.
15:02:50 <VisualizeR> the general user doesn't know about coding, they're used to moving a mouse and clicking stuff
15:04:15 <boily> functional programming is about that: transforming functions into other functions, and composing those functions together. it lends pretty well to visual and dataflow programming.
15:04:17 <VisualizeR> i'm thinking about better ways to teach kids programming right from the start because it can help them way better in the world we're heading to.
15:04:56 <boily> I think Lego NXT is the best effort out there to engage the next generation with programming.
15:06:27 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:07:12 <nooga> I like minecraft, especially the tech mods
15:07:44 <VisualizeR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5mQxX-Zd0 I'm thinking about this game called codespells. they did it very well
15:08:24 <nooga> it's great stuff, it can teach you how to design scalable, distributed systems without ever mentioning it
15:10:05 <nooga> one problem with visual programming systems, such as puredata, is that eventually you end up with an unholy mess of wires
15:11:24 <nooga> and usually they don't implement any kind of metaprogramming facilities
15:12:49 <VisualizeR> isn't this regular capsuling of scripts?
15:12:50 <nooga> which is hard to visualise because it suddenly needs more dimensions
15:13:17 <nooga> yes, that's one dimension
15:14:19 <nooga> but how about having a block that can transform and spawn given subgraps and is programmed visually itself?
15:15:10 <VisualizeR> simply open up another type of scripts for every within that subsystem
15:16:19 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:17:41 <nooga> I'm not sure if that would be enough to go meta
15:20:56 <VisualizeR> it has to be self-sustaining, be relevant as a program and on top of that it can influence society. that is the meta level, so there needs to be hubs on each section branching to the subsystems depending on the desired content
15:21:11 <nooga> as for the kids... there should be something like "SICP for kids"
15:22:02 <boily> http://landoflisp.com/ ?
15:22:30 -!- augur has joined.
15:22:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:22:58 <nooga> yeeeeaaahhh but without mentioning LISP
15:24:32 <nooga> just uh, teaching youngsters about computation without imposing any particular programming system
15:25:33 <nooga> because this kind of thinking isn't much harder to learn than algebra
15:26:05 <nooga> and gives you something that laymen see as a superpower
15:26:41 <nooga> you can tell machines what to do and use them to make changes in the world
15:27:27 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
15:30:25 <VisualizeR> personally I think the biggest problem nowadays is we have too much freedom on one hand and too little of it on the other. it would require teaching them why it is beneficial. it needs something like an entry drug and games are perfect for that. this is about having one option or many to choose from and most people stick to one thing after they have found "their" thing.
15:32:19 <VisualizeR> so when you talk to people about why they should use this particular language you use and why they should too this is like talknig about religion or other products. our personal view biases us into limiting our own view. we like to go to the biggest system around and simply go with it. I know this doesn't apply to you guys.
15:32:23 <VisualizeR> just saying that it is free will if people choose to have one or many options
15:32:48 -!- augur has joined.
15:41:39 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:44:08 -!- nooga has joined.
15:53:39 <mroman> I think visual programming is great for domain specific things.
15:54:46 <mroman> the difficulty in programming is not the way you do it.
15:54:54 <mroman> whether it's a graphical language or a non-graphical one
15:55:05 <mroman> A for loop is a for loop.
15:56:36 <VisualizeR> who decides that the logic used within is the best there is?
15:58:18 <mroman> http://codepad.org/snRrxLzj <- there
15:58:26 <mroman> that's the transcript from the codespells video
15:58:38 <mroman> aside that there are no blue, pink, green boxes around the text
15:58:41 <mroman> it's literally the same thing.
15:59:19 <mroman> it's just a fancier way of displaying text.
15:59:22 <mroman> that's pretty much it.
16:00:10 <VisualizeR> that is exactly what is needed ^^ synesthetics help to differentiate content
16:00:49 <boily> VisualizeR: people who write compilers and core libraries decide what is, within a given programming language, the Best Way To Do Things™.
16:01:13 <VisualizeR> i totally understood what you mean tho, the logic is the same but the presentation differs
16:01:25 <mroman> people don't decide what language to use on the language.
16:01:34 <mroman> they decide it on the language's ecosystems.
16:01:54 <mroman> because most languages are pretty much the same, same powerful so language differences are mostly completely irrelevant.
16:01:57 <boily> the semantic of what you write is independent of the actual physical process that happens in your machine. what mroman said: a for loop is a for loop.
16:02:09 <mroman> the only real constraints anymore are memory management and type safety
16:02:56 <VisualizeR> so they're like different tools, each one is best for a specific task
16:03:27 <mroman> you can translate pretty much any language easily into any other language
16:03:36 <mroman> you can easily translate perl to python, python to ruby, ruby to php
16:04:07 <boily> all mainstream languages are (almost) mathematically equivalent. it's just the subjective ease you can describe a task in a programming language that will differ from another one.
16:04:12 <VisualizeR> so what is best for the ecosystem then?
16:04:24 <mroman> these languages are mostly only different in syntax
16:04:30 <mroman> and syntax is easy to "translate"
16:04:55 <mroman> the problem is that you can't translate library calls because they don't have the same libraries.
16:05:16 <VisualizeR> this makes some languages more efficient in certain tasks, right?
16:05:40 <mroman> although to be fair they have different OOP so some edge-cases are probably a bit harder to translate
16:05:42 <boily> you're always building upon previous work. a task may be easier in one language because some guy did the grunt work for you.
16:05:59 <mroman> but these details aren't really what you decide on which languages you should use.
16:06:10 <mroman> Why do people use PHP for webdev?
16:06:21 <mroman> because it's installed everywhere on free hosters.
16:06:23 -!- adu has joined.
16:06:27 <LKoen> because they don't know about javascript
16:06:38 <mroman> why do people use javascript for webdev?
16:06:43 <mroman> because there's no other language available.
16:06:59 -!- tromp has joined.
16:07:20 <mroman> people mostly use python because it has a HUGE set of packages available
16:08:13 <mroman> so good ecosystem means
16:08:30 <mroman> a.) lots of packages b.) lots of bindings to c libraries (such as gtk, databases, etc. etc.)
16:09:01 <mroman> In python i can do import rest; rest.call('/method', blurks);
16:09:12 <mroman> but that's not because of python it's because somebody took the time to write a nice package
16:09:23 <mroman> in haskell I'd probably have to set up http requests manually and stuff like that
16:09:34 <VisualizeR> so the most important part are those core libraries which define the functions the language will have. it probably is a child of the time and can't possibily fit any future needs, right? so it is about keeping it alive and up to date.
16:09:39 <mroman> so if I just want to do some rest request I'll probably use python, even though I don't like python as a language.
16:10:21 <boily> VisualizeR: core libraries are in constant fluctuation. active development is perpetual, to fix security bugs, add new features, optimize stuff...
16:10:25 <mroman> in the prof. java/js scene it's more about frameworks even
16:10:30 <mroman> you don't look for a javascript developer
16:10:37 <mroman> you look for somebody who knows angular
16:10:44 <mroman> or whatever your company is using.
16:11:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:12:10 <mroman> you can give a kid a visual programming IDE
16:12:18 <mroman> but it won't write a dijkstra in it
16:12:42 <mroman> because the kid knows shit about algorithms and math and science
16:13:29 <VisualizeR> exactly this is why a game is good, it can see the strength of the avatar change with the numbers
16:13:37 <mroman> the only point I could agree on is that visual programming might make kids more motivitated to code
16:13:43 <mroman> but not because it makes it any easier or different
16:13:50 <mroman> but because it looks more interesting to little kids
16:13:59 <mroman> because it's presented in colours.
16:14:28 <mroman> CBS presents this program in colour.
16:14:40 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
16:15:07 <mroman> I know nothing about how red eye correction works
16:15:19 <mroman> but if you give me a function "red-eye-correction(Image img);" I can do it
16:17:10 <mroman> the existence of that function is much more important than the language.
16:17:24 <VisualizeR> I'm rather in need of procedual textures combined with procedual music and a detection of the music the manipulate the textures and animations with
16:19:53 <mroman> that's why you can teach people to write apps
16:20:07 <mroman> without teaching them anything about algorithms and stuff
16:20:57 <mroman> which is good. I don't oppose that. but I still think anything related to visual programming is too hyped
16:21:35 <mroman> most people used vb6 because it had an UI to write GUI code.
16:22:01 <mroman> that's a useful application of "visual programming" but it's very domain specific.
16:23:15 <mroman> what's also a good use is to have some model you can visually create and then write codegenerators for that
16:23:32 <mroman> CIRO or whatever that was called
16:23:47 <mroman> you can describe state machines in that, then generate the code for it.
16:24:04 <mroman> then you only need to write code to read/write from pins/io ports manually
16:24:12 <mroman> i.e. used for embedded systems
16:24:36 <mroman> that's also a good application for "visual programming" but also domain specific as it's limited to state machines and i/o systems
16:26:59 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
16:27:48 <mroman> not that I think video games are a goodthing.
16:28:02 <mroman> I'm probably the only computer scientist that actually hates most of the computer related stuff :D
16:28:37 <mroman> IRC is great. It's true. Best chat in the world.
16:29:10 <int-e> hmm, you know that there are offline video games that you can play all by yourself in your own time, no pressure?
16:29:21 <nooga> I hate computers too
16:29:30 <mroman> offline games are fine iff they have splitscreen.
16:29:34 <nooga> I don't like to care about them as machines
16:29:53 <mroman> dating apps is a pretty bad invention.
16:29:55 <int-e> computers are nice as long as they work
16:30:06 <mroman> It seems like it benefits everybody but it actually doesn't.
16:30:19 <int-e> sometimes they're also fun to trouble-shoot, but basically only when I don't actually urgently need them
16:30:19 <nooga> yeah, they should work and it's technicians' job to tend to them
16:30:31 <mroman> and software is mostly crap
16:30:37 <mroman> and OS are mostly crap too
16:30:41 <mroman> from a security perspective
16:30:53 <int-e> so far the solution to the software problem has been to write more software
16:31:11 <mroman> you need built-in "selinux" stuff in your OS
16:31:14 <mroman> then we can talk about security
16:31:44 <nooga> this field is so vast, you can zoom in and out, circle the globe and read everything
16:31:51 <mroman> you know... very fine grained ACL for processes, users, file systems etc.
16:31:52 <int-e> I think ASLR is the only "security" feature that's really in use here...
16:32:19 <nooga> and you still can't have a consistent idea about how everything works
16:32:21 <int-e> mroman: I'm vaguely aware, I think is a fair description.
16:32:48 <mroman> you can send a windows guy a bat file del /S %HOME%/Documents
16:32:51 <mroman> if he double clicks it
16:33:01 <mroman> that's how good security is on modern operating systems.
16:33:07 <int-e> does / work for \ there?
16:33:20 <mroman> my admin days are behind me
16:33:35 <mroman> It works in some cases
16:33:52 <mroman> but that's probably python/java secretly translating / to \
16:34:01 <int-e> I encountered http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/ these days, fun to read.
16:34:18 <mroman> if you have a bug in Word.exe
16:34:21 <mroman> it can delete all your documents
16:34:25 <mroman> I don't call that security.
16:34:41 <mroman> I have talked with people at work about how to solve the problem
16:34:49 <mroman> but they just laughed at me and told me "It'll never happen"
16:34:53 <mroman> and I guess they are right.
16:35:01 <mroman> There's no money in security apparentely
16:35:18 <int-e> there's money in selling AV products
16:35:29 <mroman> but that's a crappy solution to the problem.
16:35:40 <int-e> it's not a solution
16:35:53 <nooga> I remember the times when you got a CIH on a floppy with pirated game and it fried your motherboard
16:36:02 <mroman> they've been bragging about heuristics for 10 years now
16:36:03 <nooga> these were the viruses
16:36:16 <mroman> b.) even if it would: it's a crappy solution.
16:36:22 <nooga> nowadays it's just spyware, ransomware and crapware
16:36:54 <mroman> I want fine grained permissions per process and user etc.
16:37:02 <mroman> and software needs to drop privileges
16:37:08 <mroman> so it's only working with minimal privileges.
16:37:23 <mroman> if you open word foo.doc
16:37:24 <nooga> it just means more management
16:37:33 <mroman> you need to drop all privileges except to that file
16:37:43 <mroman> No OS currently supports this.
16:37:50 <nooga> < mroman> I want fine grained permissions per process and user etc.
16:37:53 <int-e> http://robert.ocallahan.org/2017/01/disable-your-antivirus-software-except.html was another nice article; https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/03/security_threat_solutions/?mt=1486125905262 is also relevant.
16:38:08 <nooga> how would that look like in practice?
16:38:15 <mroman> but it means you gonna have to start from scratch and design an OS with security in mind SINCE THE START.
16:38:35 <mroman> nooga: a.) you configure what parts of the filesystem a process can even see etc.
16:38:43 <mroman> you have security contexts
16:38:50 <mroman> you can narrow a securyt contexts
16:38:53 <nooga> and one day some smart kid will crack even this
16:39:44 <int-e> mroman: you're right in principle, but a key question is how to make all this usable and understandable for laypeople.
16:39:47 <Zarutian> mroman: hmm.. design an OS with security in mind from the start? Have you heard about capros?
16:40:29 <mroman> int-e: Well the problem is I don't give a fuck about laypeople.
16:40:32 <nooga> what about unikernels? maybe just box up every application
16:40:33 <int-e> (though I guess a lot could be done by versioned file systems that allow people to go back in time?)
16:40:36 <mroman> If software developers would do a better job it would work
16:40:44 <nooga> and run them in a hypervisor
16:40:44 <mroman> but if they do a crappy job then FUCK them.
16:40:59 <int-e> (which is quite different from what you're suggesting, of course)
16:41:03 <mroman> just look at all the crappy windows installers out there and shit.
16:41:18 <nooga> do they still exist?
16:41:27 <int-e> and perhaps executing programs should be a more privileged operation...
16:42:17 <int-e> but basically most of the programs are written for embedded devices (which we're just starting to perceive as an attack surface) and consumer devices (which are sold by usability, not security)... we're, essentially, doomed.
16:42:20 <nooga> (last time I've used windows was in 2008)
16:43:03 <mroman> http://codepad.org/pbo1ADdF <- like that
16:43:08 <mroman> security contexts are like stacks or something
16:43:14 <mroman> you can always drop privileges
16:43:22 <mroman> and regain them later using a regain token
16:43:40 <mroman> and you can ask for more privileges at which point the OS will ask the user whether this is ok
16:43:55 <Zarutian> int-e: depends on the level of complexity of the embedded SOC. Just using an ARM with a Windows CE or such is not allowed to be primary control in an say a milling machine.
16:44:00 <mroman> a.) you need to configure the MAXIMUM security context for a process/user
16:44:14 <mroman> b.) software needs to drop and regain privileges as necessary.
16:44:27 <nooga> so you want to put middlewares on syscalls?
16:44:30 <Zarutian> mroman: congrats you just reinvented the "Mother may I?" problem that plaques systems such as seLinux
16:44:57 <mroman> Zarutian: What do you mean by that?
16:45:20 <mroman> and linux is crap anyway
16:45:26 * Zarutian is part of rather long lived discussion group that has thought and written extensively about these matters.
16:45:46 <mroman> by which I mean the distros.
16:46:28 <nooga> I stopped worrying and learned to love OS X because it doesn't need anything from me and I just want emacs
16:46:39 <Zarutian> mroman: the "Mother may I?" problem? basically from your utterence of the phrase "at which point the OS will ask the user whether this is ok"
16:47:40 <mroman> well there's not really a way to avoid that.
16:48:06 <mroman> the user decides what software can access which parts of his stuff.
16:48:19 <Zarutian> think about "dont seperate designation and authority" for a bit and what that could mean
16:48:21 <mroman> you can hide lots of this from the user
16:48:27 <mroman> for example with filechooserdialogues
16:48:34 <mroman> which grant implicit permissions to the file you selected
16:48:42 <mroman> so the user doesn't even know that this was a security feature
16:48:55 <Zarutian> does filechooserdialogues return an filehandle instead of just a path string?
16:49:06 <mroman> the difference is that it's an OS dialogue
16:49:11 <mroman> not one from the software
16:49:21 <nooga> > PID 1234 at 0x0800000800012f wants to call sysapi_mgvgtbf2 to and will touch "/saou/ajsihaois/annsuoanus/tmp/asu_2872983323/f2f2ff2f201-c.ggg". [GO AHEAD] [NOPE]
16:49:42 <Zarutian> mroman: hmm.. basically an instance of an pattern called PowerBox
16:52:17 <mroman> then the software is crap
16:52:20 <mroman> or your config is wrong.
16:52:21 <nooga> so your computer is useless
16:52:40 <mroman> it's a bad idea that all processes have the same /tmp anyway
16:52:58 <int-e> <mroman> then the software is crap <--- I thought that was one of the premises
16:53:11 <nooga> you could install a hand crank on it as well
16:53:27 <mroman> I would use an abstraction layer for the fs
16:53:31 <mroman> process only see a virtual filesystem
16:53:36 <mroman> and you can map stuff into that
16:53:46 <mroman> like map /tmp/httpd /tmp
16:53:48 <nooga> IMHO this is not a good idea for consumer grade computing
16:54:02 <mroman> which is on the physical fs in /tmp/httpd
16:54:08 <nooga> it could be quite cool for embedded/process control
16:54:27 <nooga> when you set up everything and just run stuff for a long periods of time
16:55:16 <mroman> well you need strict guidelines
16:55:24 <mroman> software developers will need to follow these or gtfo
16:55:33 <mroman> you need a very homogenous environment
16:55:49 <mroman> so not shitty ideas like "we call it apache2 in this distro, we call it httpd in this distro"
16:55:56 <mroman> don't have multiple distros at all :p
16:56:19 <nooga> welcome to the future, NaziOS is here
16:56:41 <mroman> security has it's price.
16:57:12 <mroman> but if you have such an OS
16:57:16 <mroman> with such strict guidelines
16:57:29 <mroman> then the software devs will also ship configuration files for their software
16:57:40 <mroman> if you would have sewindows
16:57:47 <mroman> you'd need months to configure it properly
16:58:04 <mroman> because you'd have to write config files for every single process etc.
16:58:09 <mroman> because software devs don't ship one
16:58:24 <mroman> and because their software probably does more than they want to admit
16:58:28 <int-e> here's a fun one... what is the security model of systemd?
16:58:30 <mroman> like calling home and stuff.
16:58:48 <mroman> but my opinion on that is FUCK those software then.
16:59:20 <mroman> I don't know enough about systemd internals to answer that.
16:59:30 <nooga> well, there's quite sophisticated permission system in Android
16:59:49 <nooga> you can grant and revoke access to various APIs for each app
16:59:58 <nooga> but people still click OK
17:00:05 <nooga> and don't even read that stuff
17:00:06 <mroman> nooga: it's a step in the right direction, yes.
17:00:15 <mroman> nooga: yes because if you need the software then you click OK
17:00:24 <mroman> you can't protect a user from disabling security
17:00:34 <mroman> but that shouldn't be a reason to NOT implement security.
17:00:41 <nooga> you can revoke some rights of any app at any time
17:00:49 <nooga> but then it starts nagging you
17:01:25 <nooga> "oh you just want to take a picture? the camera app has no access to the camera, go to settings and enable"
17:01:51 <mroman> the trick is to pressure software devs into writing good nice software
17:02:46 <mroman> I don't know how this can be done.
17:03:58 <mroman> I think selling crap should be illegal :)
17:04:00 <VisualizeR> open source gets ripped off each time they push the limits
17:04:59 <mroman> I think software needs warranty laws like regular products.
17:05:21 <mroman> if your software has defects, you should be legally obliged to fix those
17:05:28 <mroman> like with any other non-software product.
17:06:24 <mroman> at least if you do it commercially
17:06:30 <VisualizeR> this would mean a permanent internet connection and feedback with their server to ensure everything is within time limits
17:07:32 <VisualizeR> guess why they digitalize the industries, it still is a law free zone or lets say there are a lot of grey zones
17:09:07 <VisualizeR> next stop transhumanism, posthumanism after that
17:09:40 <VisualizeR> once the technology is in us we're a lot better to control and keep track of
17:10:44 <mroman> humans are bad at solving problems
17:11:07 <mroman> they like to talk about problems more than talking about solving problems :)
17:12:57 <nooga> but there's no one better
17:14:30 <nooga> [at solving problems]
17:17:29 <mroman> sometimes it seems that they aren't even aware of the options they have.
17:17:43 <mroman> in switzerland citizens have the power to change laws.
17:17:51 <mroman> if a law is still in place after complaining for years about it
17:18:13 <mroman> then this means to me that everybody likes to complain about it, but nobody actually wants to change it.
17:18:24 <mroman> so everybody is just bullshitting.
17:18:38 <nooga> yeah, it's worse when it's the other way round
17:19:19 <nooga> when people are pissed off and protesting but government does not listen and keeps doing the opposite to what people want
17:20:02 <mroman> might be a bad political system then :)
17:20:22 <int-e> nooga: you're talking about a purely hypothetical scenario of course
17:21:00 <mroman> I heard a silent "Trump" there
17:21:32 <mroman> I like the "I do things" attitude.
17:21:37 <mroman> I don't necessarily like what he's up to
17:21:47 <mroman> and I don't know what he's up to.
17:21:59 <mroman> except for that ban of 7 countries
17:22:09 <mroman> that's the only thing you really read about in newspapers in switzerland.
17:22:22 <nooga> I'm not surprised by Trump, I've had samples of this stuff since last winter
17:22:45 <int-e> "The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!" -- Trump
17:23:01 <nooga> yeah, samples of that as well
17:23:02 <mroman> I don't know too much about the US system :(
17:23:09 <mroman> sounds like legislative
17:23:28 <mroman> i.e. why the f*ck does the president have legislative rights?
17:24:23 <int-e> "l'état, c'est moi" -- Louis XIV
17:24:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:24:34 <int-e> just a totally random association
17:24:52 <nooga> mroman: yeah, this is hardcore
17:25:07 <int-e> mroman: technically his decrees cannot go against existing law
17:25:29 <int-e> so again, *technically*, you could argue that he has no legislative powers.
17:25:33 <nooga> but if you get a proesident that's in the pocket of the ruling party and paralyzed constitutional court
17:25:38 <nooga> you get the same thing
17:26:05 <int-e> practically though... he has a crazy amount of power, also because he can fire important people, veto laws and the like
17:26:40 <int-e> checks and balances...
17:27:31 <mroman> president can fire people
17:27:34 <int-e> hmm, I've read an analysis of that recently, but where... basically the conclusion was that the rights of the president was established with the underlying idea that only decent human beings would ever attain that office.
17:27:35 <mroman> that's mistake number two :)
17:28:03 <nooga> what he will do next is to convince his electorate that checks and balances are bad and set up by the previous team to impede on making the country great
17:28:28 <nooga> and attempt to dismantle them
17:29:21 <nooga> or just ignore them
17:30:15 <nooga> I've seen it happening :|
17:30:28 <int-e> I'm sure Trump will still like cheques.
17:31:44 <int-e> (another article all but suggested that Trump has a record to beat: Hitler took 5 months from assuming office as chancellor of the Weimar Republic to essentially total power over the state...)
17:34:30 <nooga> so what do I need to do to get a swiss visa?
17:35:30 <mroman> what do you need a swiss visa for?
17:35:48 <mroman> just get a work permit and stay
17:36:13 <mroman> just make vacation here
17:36:32 <int-e> . o O ( bring money )
17:36:55 <mroman> and bring lots of gold
17:37:20 <mroman> countries generally have nothing against rich immigrants
17:37:26 <mroman> only against poor immigrants :)
17:37:34 <nooga> hold on, I'm calling Google Geneva office
17:37:49 <mroman> muslims and poor people
17:38:15 <mroman> germans are like arch enemies
17:38:20 <olsner> oh, HTH is also a brand of kitchens
17:38:45 <mroman> I guess it's because they talk in a funny language :p
17:38:47 <int-e> `learn APT is a technical term in cyber witchcraft, short for "adequate pernicious toe-rags".
17:38:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'apt': APT is a technical term in cyber witchcraft, short for "adequate pernicious toe-rags".
17:39:20 <int-e> @google "adequate pernicious toe-rags"
17:39:21 <lambdabot> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/03/security_threat_solutions/
17:39:32 <mroman> but I never heard about discrimination against rich english people
17:39:41 <mroman> as money is always welcome
17:39:50 <mroman> you'll even get tax discounts as a rich foreigner.
17:40:03 <boily> All Hail the Toe Of Everything!
17:40:25 <nooga> i thought that everyone in switzerland is more or less well off
17:40:49 <mroman> but more money is always better
17:40:51 <int-e> nooga: every country needs slaves ;)
17:41:05 <mroman> if you are rich and move to some village in switzerland
17:41:18 <mroman> even if you only have to pay half the amount a swiss would have to pay in taxes
17:41:27 <VisualizeR> no country "needs" slaves, it is just comfortable to have them
17:41:28 <nooga> your new neighbours will vote if they want you there :D
17:41:28 <mroman> it's still going to be a good income
17:41:39 <mroman> so the village can buy a new school
17:41:44 <int-e> VisualizeR: what are you, socialist or communist ;)
17:41:46 <VisualizeR> heaven is a real place on earth, you're just too poor to live in it
17:42:15 <int-e> kidding mostly... also out of my depth
17:42:21 <int-e> maybe I should read Marx.
17:43:18 <mroman> money equals happiness
17:43:23 <mroman> but only if you have A LOT of it
17:43:41 <VisualizeR> we're always wanting to simply accept the biggest system there is but this way we give away our power to share information collectively. that is basically the msg of the aliens, the 1% are the alienated ones and they started a class war.
17:44:10 <int-e> "money cannot buy happiness but it sure keeps the family in touch"
17:44:29 <nooga> my view on it is that we're all playing a game
17:44:29 <int-e> (paraphrased, no clue what the source was)
17:44:34 <nooga> and money is a score
17:45:08 <nooga> and this game gets slightly easier for high scoring players
17:45:19 <mroman> but money can buy you family.
17:45:28 <nooga> int-e: slightly, unless you're in the top ten
17:45:51 <mroman> with money I could afford plastic surgery
17:45:55 <mroman> a lot of plastic surgery.
17:46:29 <nooga> I cheated and got a lovely wife without using any money ;>
17:47:08 <mroman> I'm a 0/10. Makes dating incredibly hard.
17:47:28 <nooga> I used to think the same
17:47:31 <mroman> 0/10 on the revised scale
17:47:36 <mroman> no the traditional scale
17:47:42 <mroman> the traditional scale is useless.
17:48:14 <mroman> It doesn't matter if you fail with a 1,2,3, or 3.9 (you fail if grade < 4.0)
17:48:38 <mroman> the only grades that actually matter are 4 to 6.
17:49:26 <nooga> but grades don't count in the game
17:49:35 <mroman> I'm not "thinking" that
17:49:35 <nooga> the game is about score and staying sane
17:49:40 <mroman> I actually have hard data on that.
18:02:47 <doesthiswork> http://www.gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/adjectives/order-of-adjectives/
18:07:44 -!- tromp has joined.
18:11:02 * Zarutian had to do some chores that turned out to be more time consuming than he thought
18:12:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:23:56 <mroman> you need pictures too?
18:31:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bax3n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50840&oldid=50630 * Bax3n * (-24)
18:37:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PILL CHICKEn).
18:47:52 <mroman> I have a public youtube channel anyway.
18:47:59 <mroman> so my face isn't exactly secret :)
18:54:31 <mroman> you can watch my precious cooking skills.
18:59:51 <mroman> You can document Burlesque for me
18:59:58 <mroman> That's on my whishlist.
19:02:07 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/burlesque/docs/BLSQ.html <- needs a lot of work
19:06:08 <mroman> probably not even a 100 builtins documented
19:06:08 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: No route to host).
19:06:11 <mroman> and there are 400 of those
19:06:18 -!- nooga has joined.
19:07:16 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:08:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:08:25 -!- tromp has joined.
19:08:27 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:12:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:13:29 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:19:42 <mroman> It's got the best Fibonacci program there is.
19:22:27 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:39:23 -!- nooga has joined.
19:50:22 -!- ais523 has quit.
19:50:33 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:51:03 -!- krok has joined.
19:51:26 -!- krok has changed nick to Guest24490.
19:53:54 -!- Guest24490 has left.
19:55:06 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:29:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:31:17 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/password
20:31:18 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 38 Feb 4 12:07 wisdom/password
20:31:27 <HackEgo> The password of the month is n9y25ah7
20:31:44 <HackEgo> 10206:2017-02-04 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7 \ 10065:2017-01-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91 \ 9816:2016-12-02 <shachäf> revert \ 9815:2016-12-02 <shachäf> undo -2 \ 9813:2016-12-02 <oerjän> learn The password of th
20:33:38 -!- adu has joined.
20:33:43 <doesthiswork> mroman: what does the Fibonacci program look like?
20:34:37 <oerjan> `! slashes did we have this
20:36:32 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/--help: not found
20:36:50 <HackEgo> The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list.
20:37:14 <int-e> the --help was, actually, helpful for me... I did remember what ibin is :)
20:38:12 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/ibin
20:38:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/ibin
20:38:58 <oerjan> `paste tries `url first before doing any actual copying
20:39:38 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
20:39:47 <int-e> ah, it checks that...
20:39:53 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
20:40:12 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \
20:40:18 -!- Akaibu has joined.
20:40:21 <int-e> HackEgo's (commands are) surprisingly intelligent sometimes.
20:40:26 <HackEgo> 8136:2016-05-25 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'8s/..hg/(?:&|tmp)/\' bin/url \ 8135:2016-05-25 <oerjän> revert 8132 \ 8133:2016-05-25 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'8s/.hg/(?:.hg|tmp)/\' bin/url \ 4607:2014-04-20 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/hg repository/web-viewable filesystem repository/\' bin/url \ 4606:2014-04-20 <oerjän> sed -i \'8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\\\\.hg(
20:41:19 <nooga> oerjan: making random noises
20:41:41 <int-e> `slwd oerjan//s/clever/clwver/
20:41:41 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
20:42:11 <int-e> pity, no "clever" in there :P
20:42:35 <shachaf> if only you had a four-leaf clwver
20:43:15 * int-e slashes (that's where this started, wasn't it?) shachaf with a four-leaf cleaver
20:44:18 <int-e> `culprits bin/swrjan
20:44:40 <HackEgo> cat: bin/shwshaf: No such file or directory
20:44:49 <HackEgo> cat: bin/shwchaf: No such file or directory
20:45:14 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
20:45:20 <shachaf> swrjan stands for something like sed wisdom oerjan
20:46:19 <int-e> shachaf: Would a bell pepper with a passion be a passion fruit? And how do you feel about bell peppers without any passion?
20:47:11 <oerjan> paradoxically, i'd imagine shachaf doesn't think bell peppers are passionate enough
20:47:21 <shachaf> Your reading is not supported by English grammar.
20:47:58 <oerjan> i think english grammar is appropriately ambiguous
20:48:03 <int-e> I think the grammar supports it, it's only the semantic level that would usually preclude this interpretation.
20:48:55 <shachaf> I'm not one to comment on content.
20:48:57 -!- nal has joined.
20:49:00 <int-e> Mainly because passionate fruits and vegetables are so rare.
20:49:29 <shachaf> "he hates tomatoes with an infection"
20:50:14 <int-e> . o O ( tomatoes are very passable )
20:50:39 * oerjan passes int-e a slightly overripe tomato at high speed
20:52:27 <int-e> (I don't think this pun really works in english... I guess translating "tomato passata" as "passed tomatoes" would evoke unpleasant connotations)
20:52:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:54:18 <oerjan> int-e: goes well with a cup of kopi luwak?
20:54:49 * oerjan is not going to try either
20:55:35 -!- VisualizeR has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:55:42 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:55:58 <wob_jonas> As for English, I have a question.
20:56:56 <wob_jonas> There's this short joke about the vet thinking the doctor has it easy because his patients can speak and tell him what the problem is why they went to the doctor or what symptoms they have.
20:58:04 <wob_jonas> The Hungarian phrasing is: doctor: "Mi a panasza?" (which is a common thing for a doctor to asks when you go there without context), and the vet answers "Ja, úgy könnyű!" saying that the doctor has it easy.
20:58:14 <wob_jonas> What is the idiomatic phrasing of that joke in English?
20:58:48 <oerjan> . o O ( wait, what's the actual joke )
20:59:18 <shachaf> can you translate the hungarian bits twh
21:00:03 <wob_jonas> "Mi a panasza?" means "What is your complaint?" which is how a doctor asks an adult why you came to them when he doesn't already know what the problem is
21:00:39 <wob_jonas> "Ja, hát úgy könnyű!" means "Oh, it's easy that way!" or something like that
21:02:50 <wob_jonas> But the joke only works well if it's short, not a long explanation, which is why I don't know how to say it in English the best.
21:03:44 <shachaf> The veterinarian wants to make the doctor's life harder by not answering questions.
21:03:59 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no, he'll probably answer the question after that
21:04:35 <int-e> A Veterinarian was feeling ill and went to see her doctor. The doctor asked her all the usual questions: what were the symptoms, how long had they been occurring, etc. Suddenly, she interrupted him, "Hey look, I'm a vet... I don't need to ask my patients these kind of questions. I can tell what's wrong just by looking." She smugly added, "Why can't you?"
21:04:40 <int-e> The doctor nodded, stood back, looked her up and down, quickly wrote out a prescription, handed it to her and said, "There you are. Of course, if that doesn't work, we'll have to have you put to sleep."
21:04:44 <int-e> this version works for me.
21:05:19 <wob_jonas> int-e: that's a different one, yes. there are multiple jokes about vets and doctors
21:05:38 -!- FreeFull has joined.
21:05:53 <int-e> wob_jonas: I just have no clue how to actually deliver the information required for your story so that there's a punchline.
21:06:41 <int-e> (and I don't remember having heard such a joke... not that this says a lot)
21:06:53 <zzo38> The punchline is when one man punches the other.
21:07:03 <int-e> A man took his Rottweiler to the vet and said "My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?" "Well," said the vet, "lets have a look at him." So he picks the dog up and has a good look at its eyes. "Hmm, not good," says the vet, "I'm going to have to put him down."
21:07:08 <int-e> The owner was stunned, "Put him down just because he's cross-eyed?" "No, because he's heavy," says the vet.
21:07:24 <int-e> (that's the other joke I found on the way that made me chuckle, at least. it's all I have for now.)
21:08:07 <int-e> Of course I'm reminded of Pratchett's wisdom about horse doctors.
21:08:27 <wob_jonas> I haven't read enough pratchett, so I don't know what that is
21:09:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel almost, but not entirely without esolang discussions | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
21:09:24 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/cWSI
21:09:33 <zzo38> The transformation matrix of OpenGL is confusing why is there so many? Do you know how to do it to make the simple way (so that the top left corner is (0,0) and then it goes positive by integers per pixel)?
21:10:18 <int-e> what are you going to do with the z coordinate?
21:10:48 <zzo38> I think I do not need z-coordinate probably, but I do use the depth buffer though.
21:12:17 <zzo38> Maybe the z-coordinate may be usable as an additional input to the shader program; I don't know if this can work or not.
21:13:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
21:17:14 <int-e> glOrtho used to be the right thing but I haven't used OpenGL in this new everything-is-a-shader age where you're responsible for so much more.
21:18:00 * oerjan is slightly tempted to find a way to tweak the spam filter so the intro cannot be put at the start of the section
21:18:50 <int-e> hmm, has there been new spam?
21:18:52 <zzo38> int-e: I can use glOrtho but what values should be specified, and what other thing is needed too?
21:19:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stones]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50841&oldid=50823 * Zzo38 * (-1)
21:19:55 <oerjan> int-e: no, but there have been new introductions
21:20:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50842&oldid=50833 * Oerjan * (-1) Order!
21:20:50 <int-e> zzo38: just the range of coordinates you want: https://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man2/xhtml/glOrtho.xml ... that should set up things so that afterwards specifying (2D, or 3D with a z coordinate) vertex coordinates in screen space should work.
21:23:10 <zzo38> Yes, but then what do I need with glViewport and glMatrixMode and so on?
21:24:51 <int-e> oerjan: I don't know. I guess if I were jumping through the introduction hoop, that would not cause any terrible additional annoyance provided that this is clear and near impossible to miss from the instructions.
21:25:19 <int-e> oerjan: but is it worth it? do you expect people to actually read through all the introductions? I mean anyone besides yourself...
21:26:40 <wob_jonas> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Silberjoder whoa
21:26:48 <oerjan> int-e: well they have to avoid the other pitfalls described there already, and it _does_ already say to put it on the end.
21:29:34 <int-e> zzo38: afair you need glViewPort to specify the area to be rendered to; but it sets up the transformation such that screen coordinates range from (-1,-1) (top-left, I think) to (1,1) (bottom right). So afterwards, you can use glOrtho to set up the transformation that you want without affecting the area being rendered to. But as I said before, this is outdated information.
21:29:52 <oerjan> although the main one people seem to have trouble with is not putting in external links.
21:30:08 <int-e> oerjan: I guess a more relevant question is whether any of the recent additions would have been rejected by such a test.
21:30:20 <oerjan> (which is also one that was put there _specifically_ to catch spammers)
21:30:52 <oerjan> int-e: there are less than a handful who have put it at the beginning.
21:31:10 <oerjan> but they do seem to happen occasionally.
21:31:49 <oerjan> int-e: and of course i'm mentioning this because there just was one.
21:31:51 <zzo38> And then how does it affect inputs to fragment programs?
21:32:33 <int-e> oerjan: so put a reminder text at the start of the section.
21:33:20 <int-e> oerjan: and then adding such a check seems fair to me
21:33:47 <oerjan> int-e: i was considering that.
21:34:12 <ais523> I know I had to remove the check that peopel had signed correctly
21:34:16 <ais523> because so many legitimate users didn't
21:34:20 <ais523> it's really disappointing, actually
21:37:32 <oerjan> . o O ( making good CAPTCHAs is hard not because spammer programs are smart, but because humans are stupid )
21:38:06 * oerjan cannot be the first to note that.
21:39:20 <wob_jonas> I'm reminded to https://www.xkcd.com/810/ and https://www.xkcd.com/233/ of course
21:40:20 <oerjan> i'd fail the latter, never having seen that.
21:40:35 <wob_jonas> 810 is an approach that's too hard for humans, 233 is one that's too easy for machines
21:41:23 <ais523> oerjan: a bot passed a fairly large turing-test tournament, it did so by pretending to be a ukrainian teenager
21:41:42 <ais523> which automatically caused people to give it a pass on things like bad english and no knowledge of American pop culture
21:42:53 <oerjan> was it scott aaronson who tried it and found it easy to beat
21:43:15 <oerjan> ais523: in that case too, it was because humans stupid - including the judges
21:43:47 <mroman> doesthiswork: 1Jq.+10!C
21:44:06 <mroman> http://cheap.int-e.eu/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=1Jq.%2B46%21C
21:44:27 <ais523> I think the main conclusion was that the Turing test doesn't actually work
21:44:33 <mroman> (and that's not a fibonacci builtin)
21:44:56 <oerjan> wob_jonas: *reminded of
21:47:20 <oerjan> ais523: it _could_ work but (1) the judge would need to be competent (2) a passing program would need a full fake human backstory
21:47:33 <int-e> zzo38: meh, I googled a bit. AFAIU, vertex shaders convert coordinates into "normalized device coordinates" (that's a cube [-1..1]^3) with all fragments outside the range being dropped; the input to the fragment shader includes window (that is, device) coordinates of the fragment though, obtained using data from glViewPort.
21:48:13 <HackEgo> dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative
21:48:17 <oerjan> so it's making unreasonable demands of the program, unless it's only using stupid humans as judges
21:48:27 <int-e> oerjan: Why should Eliza not be able to pass a captcha? :P
21:48:55 <wob_jonas> `dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero
21:48:56 <HackEgo> dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative
21:49:00 <wob_jonas> ``dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero
21:49:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `dc: not found
21:49:04 <wob_jonas> ``` dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero
21:49:04 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031
21:50:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck+3]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50843 * Ivancr72 * (+1195) Created page with "Brainfuck+3 is like [[brainfuck]] but it has a bidimensional space and it has 3 more commands. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description |- | style="text-align:c..."
21:50:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found
21:56:23 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go).
21:56:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50844 * Ivancr72 * (+452) Created page with "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck is a derivate of [[Brainfuck+3]] but with lenny faces. ==Commands== <code>+</code> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)<br /> <code>-</code> (♥ ͜ʖ♥)<br /> <code>.</..."
21:58:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50845&oldid=50829 * Ivancr72 * (+46) added bf+3 and lennyfuck
21:58:52 <int-e> `` dc -ezz[rpdk+Klxx]dsxx 2>/dev/null # tweak
21:58:53 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \
21:59:31 <int-e> (and you can replace zz by 1 if you don't care about the 0 or empty stack errors)
22:00:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50846&oldid=50635 * Ivancr72 * (+47)
22:00:39 <mroman> you need knowledge about american pop culture to be considered human?
22:00:43 -!- Guest78015 has changed nick to L3viathan.
22:01:10 <wob_jonas> mroman: good question, wait, there was a discussion of this
22:01:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blablafuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50847&oldid=50697 * Ivancr72 * (+6)
22:01:44 -!- VisualizeR has joined.
22:01:44 <mroman> although turing test doesn't really test if you're human.
22:01:54 <mroman> I reckon intelligent aliens would pass the test too.
22:02:05 <int-e> `` dc -e1[dKp+rklxx]dsxx 2>/dev/null # actually one char less now
22:02:06 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \
22:04:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50848&oldid=50844 * Ivancr72 * (+64)
22:05:14 <mroman> 60% thought cleverbot is human
22:05:20 <mroman> what the fuck is wrong with these humans.
22:05:53 <mroman> only 63.3% of humans were identified as humans
22:06:23 <mroman> "Out of the 334 votes cast, Cleverbot was judged to be 59.3% human, compared to the rating of 63.3% human achieved by human participants."
22:06:42 <int-e> Was it one of those bots that emulated a teenager?
22:06:56 <mroman> but cleverbot.com let's you chat with it online
22:07:09 <mroman> I doubt you need more than one minute to see if it's a bot.
22:07:35 <zzo38> int-e: It is still confusing to me a bit. If I will use vertex program and fragment program, what do the different inputs and outputs of those programs do?
22:07:37 <int-e> Face it, we cannot reliably tell fungot apart from the channel's less silicon blessed residents at all times.
22:07:37 <fungot> int-e: there are fnord
22:07:53 <int-e> And fungot isn't even trying to pass itself off as human.
22:07:53 <fungot> int-e: thankfully you can click at part of the problem, so silly a redundancy
22:08:22 <zzo38> Such as, what do texture coordinates do?
22:08:28 <mroman> http://codepad.org/9ZFq88xe <- it just takes a single question
22:10:52 <mroman> http://codepad.org/P4AjtUca <- either those humans were incredibly morons or they didn't participate with their online version in the test.
22:10:53 <wob_jonas> mroman: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3285.html and its discussion thread http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=7411
22:11:07 -!- iconmaster has joined.
22:11:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:11:14 <oerjan> <boily> myndzi. <-- i think \oren\ makes a better cyborg these days.
22:11:21 <mroman> the first two answers are completely out of context.
22:11:40 -!- iconmaster has quit (Client Quit).
22:11:56 <mroman> are there transcripts from those turing tests available?
22:15:33 <mroman> "Although Cleverbot managed to score well on the Turing test, the model that did that is different from the one you’ll find online."
22:15:55 <mroman> Thought so, because the online version is pretty dumb.
22:18:32 <mroman> The trick is to not ask them yes/no questions.
22:18:52 <mroman> they are decently good at detecting yes/no question and answer randomly with either.
22:19:49 <ais523> can't you ask a yes/no question for which a random answer would be suspicious?
22:19:55 <ais523> at least half the time
22:20:03 <ais523> or for which both yes and no would be bad answers
22:21:19 <mroman> also you need to reference previous things you've said.
22:24:06 <mroman> stuff like "Lookt at my last sentence. Pick the worth word in that sentence which is a verb. Please tell me the simple past of that verb."
22:25:39 <mroman> To identify a bot you need to know what a bot can't.
22:26:00 <mroman> If you ask people to identify a bot who don't know how bot works
22:26:09 <int-e> mroman: f*ck you I'm not doing your grammar homework for you!
22:26:10 <mroman> the chances are much higher that they'll think it's not a bot.
22:26:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:26:14 <oerjan> mroman: thought you put in the misspellings on purpose :P
22:26:48 <mroman> oerjan: no. It's kinda funny but these things happen all the time to me.
22:26:58 <mroman> I write stuff "pseudo-phonetically"
22:27:07 * Zarutian has met actual humans that fail parts of the turing test
22:27:21 <oerjan> itym sudo-foneticly hth
22:28:04 <int-e> (reading: ity[are]m)
22:28:05 <mroman> I also write does <-> those
22:28:09 <wob_jonas> isn't pseudo-phonetical when you write sign instead of sine?
22:28:33 * oerjan hands int-e his evil overlord card
22:28:34 <mroman> anyway it's late. Gonna hit the hay.
22:28:46 <int-e> oerjan: does it bite?
22:29:03 <mroman> my stupid friend told me to inform him when I go climbing again so he can join
22:29:13 <mroman> but that apparentely was an empty promise.
22:30:01 <mroman> it's a promise to join me, yes.
22:30:18 <mroman> but he's not even responding.
22:31:17 <mroman> and I kind need to know... I don't like it when people only commit on the actual day it was planned.
22:31:21 <mroman> or cancel on the day it was planned.
22:31:39 <mroman> and disrupts my workout regime.
22:33:20 <mroman> Now I had to go shopping today waiting for him to answer.
22:33:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:33:29 <mroman> Shit is too expensive though.
22:33:42 <mroman> need to think if that's actually worth it.
22:34:29 <mroman> I have a weird body shape.
22:34:39 <mroman> I can't buy clothes without having to tailor them.
22:35:17 <mroman> my arms and legs are shorter than other peoples.
22:35:37 <mroman> 600 bucks is probably a reasonable price for a tailored suit
22:35:49 <mroman> I mean that's likely average price for that kind of quality.
22:36:39 <mroman> but I have no specific use for a suit other than that I currently don't have one and wanted to see what the fuzz is abut.
22:37:34 <mroman> you only need a suit if you work as a lawyer or in a bank or insurance company
22:37:41 <mroman> otherwise nobody needs a suit.
22:38:06 <mroman> and 600 bucks is too much to ruin it
22:38:08 <wob_jonas> mroman: not quite. it's useful to have a suit when you're invited to other people's weddings
22:38:22 <mroman> I'm not getting invited to weddings.
22:38:38 <mroman> My own brother doesn't even say hi to me
22:38:42 <wob_jonas> yeah, but many people who aren't lawyers or work in a bank are
22:39:08 <mroman> There's zero people who would invite me to weddings.
22:39:11 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
22:40:06 <mroman> Last time I went out was more than 2 years ago.
22:40:41 <mroman> and the total amount of times I went out I can count with two hands.
22:40:54 <mroman> I leave home everyday for work
22:41:17 <mroman> mostly climbing and work tho
22:41:18 <wob_jonas> alercah: or have a really big house, like Wonko the Sane does
22:41:47 <mroman> and doctor appointments
22:42:32 <mroman> I face orofacial dyskinesia
22:43:02 <mroman> ok oerjan what actually happens is that my brain skips to the next word and then mangles words together
22:43:20 <mroman> so I end up writing "I face" orofacial instead of "I have"
22:43:44 <mroman> wob_jonas: It means my facial muscles are doing shit they are not supposed to
22:43:58 <mroman> also chronic orofacial pain
22:44:35 <mroman> They move without me commanding them
22:47:07 <mroman> I don't have many friend.
22:47:24 <mroman> Mostly because I'm very good at sensing if people actually like me or just tolerate me.
22:48:17 <mroman> and since I'm not very narcissistic I don't give a shit about attention from people who tolerate me
22:49:21 <mroman> Maybe that's a BPD trait
22:51:04 <mroman> and I'm not really good at anything and not traditionally attractive at all
22:51:14 <mroman> so people usually don't want to be friends anyway
22:51:33 <wob_jonas> mroman: what sort of climbing? indoor climbing?
22:52:06 <mroman> but climbing only indoor so far.
22:53:22 <wob_jonas> I tried indoor climbing only once, and didn't enjoy it, so I never went back
22:53:37 <wob_jonas> but at least I can understand why other people want to do it
22:54:21 <mroman> and the first few times it feels like freedom.
22:54:28 <mroman> but currently it has become more of a challenge
22:54:33 <mroman> like "I wanna climb better grades"
22:55:01 <mroman> but it's a very niche sport around here
22:55:26 <mroman> I don't know anybody who climbs
22:55:44 <mroman> so I'm limited to the routes with those Toppas devices
22:55:53 <wob_jonas> somehow a lot of people started to do squash (sport)
22:57:08 <wob_jonas> apparently that's some sort of rope holding thing, if I understand right
22:57:18 <mroman> It's at the top of the wall
22:57:41 <mroman> it has a mechanism that slows your fall to 1m/s
22:58:15 <wob_jonas> mroman: can't you also go to indoor climbing spaces that don't have ropes but are not very tall and have a thick padded mat on the floor? that's the kind of place I was at when I tried. so if you fall, you don't fall from too high, and don't hurt yourself much (usually).
22:58:25 <mroman> wob_jonas: that's called bouldering
23:00:21 <mroman> https://www.hoehenpass.de/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/560x560/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/o/toppas_1.png <- that's a toppas
23:00:42 <mroman> it's on the top of the wall with a rope attached so you can pull it down, hook it up to your climbing belt (probably not the correct term)
23:00:57 <mroman> and it always pulls the rope in so when you climb upwards it will pull the rope in
23:01:27 <mroman> when you fall it will slowling unwind the rope with about 1m/s
23:02:05 <mroman> if you're tired from climbing it gets hard to even pull the thing down :)
23:02:40 <mroman> because there's always an upwards force pulling the rope back up
23:02:48 <mroman> so you have to pull it down against that force :D
23:03:54 <mroman> which is why people once they have pulled it down fix it to a carabiner at the bottom of the wall.
23:04:07 <mroman> well there are two systems in use actually
23:04:22 <mroman> one where the carabiner from the toppas is at the top with a small rope attached to it so you have to pull the thing down
23:04:49 <mroman> and system 2 is where it's already pulled down and hooked with carabiners on the floor
23:04:59 <mroman> so you unhook it, climb up, fall down, hook it to the floor again
23:05:16 <mroman> the problem with that is if some moron forgets to hook it to the floor the whole thing is pulled to the top
23:05:20 <mroman> and you need a crane :D
23:06:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:06:06 <mroman> some routes have similar devices
23:07:00 <mroman> it's not a machine so you need a human partner but the device makes you lighter to like 10% of your actual weight
23:07:15 <mroman> so the one who is protecting you from falling down needs very little force
23:07:34 <mroman> and the rope is already on the wall
23:07:44 <mroman> it's mostly for children though.
23:08:36 <mroman> really need some sleep now.
23:08:46 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: zzZzZzzZz).
23:15:47 -!- carado has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:22:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:24:17 <oerjan> <olsner> oh, HTH is also a brand of kitchens <-- i've got hth
23:24:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:24:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:24:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:24:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:27:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:28:12 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:30:40 -!- FreeFull has joined.
23:31:45 <shachaf> do you recommend hth brand kitchens?
23:33:27 <oerjan> i find it slightly unnerving that i cannot find the plugs for the fridge and freezer
23:34:41 <oerjan> i considered defrosting the freezer recently, but i don't know how to do it without using the circuit breaker
23:35:07 <oerjan> (i hope it doesn't really need defrosting, the buildup isn't _that_ great)
23:35:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:36:01 <oerjan> anyway, i don't really have an idea, it came with the apartment.
23:36:29 <shachaf> do you recommend your apartment?
23:36:48 <oerjan> no, the ventilation is far too noisy
23:37:16 <shachaf> the positive things about my apartment are the location and the price
23:37:44 <shachaf> the rest ranges from ok to scow
23:37:53 <shachaf> but those are the important things anyway?
23:37:58 <oerjan> oh also my bedroom is next to the building staircase/elevator.
23:38:15 <shachaf> maybe norway is no cheaper than berkeley
23:38:18 <oerjan> which is sometimes annoying, but not that often.
23:39:01 <shachaf> Should I stick around CA or go somewhere else?
23:39:33 <oerjan> go to sri lanka and become a fisherman hth
23:40:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:41:16 <shachaf> i'm also not into other people fishing
23:41:32 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:41:55 <oerjan> . o O ( shachaf is working for the fish people )
23:47:29 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:49:34 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
23:50:05 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host).
23:50:05 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
00:04:26 -!- LKoen has joined.
00:04:28 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit).
00:11:02 -!- tromp has joined.
00:15:19 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:29:05 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:34:08 -!- tromp has joined.
00:35:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:50:40 -!- ais523 has quit.
01:04:20 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:10:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
01:10:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
01:16:56 <fizzie> oerjan: FWIW, often there's a switch of some sort.
01:20:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
01:27:28 <oerjan> fizzie: the fridge is adjustable, but there's no switch in the freezer that i can find.
01:28:40 <oerjan> although there is a strange orange rope in the fridge which i'm not sure what does... it _might_ be connected to the freezer somehow.
01:29:25 -!- tromp has joined.
01:29:38 <oerjan> (they are not, however, a single box)
01:29:54 <shachaf> fizzie: Do you have an HTH kitchen?
01:38:08 -!- boily has joined.
01:38:13 <HackEgo> latin//LATINA EST SUBLIMISSIMA LINGUA MUNDI
01:48:04 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm not sure how that's defined.
01:48:27 <boily> hellochaf, VisuellozeR, fizziello.
01:50:52 <shachaf> Maybe the London real estate you buy can have an HTH kitchen.
01:53:45 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:54:52 <fizzie> I looked a little at how those things work around here, and it seems really complicated.
01:55:20 <fizzie> At least compared to how we did it in Finland, where we just went to the bank we used anyway, asked for some money, and bought a place.
01:56:03 <shachaf> As opposed to what in London?
01:56:54 <fizzie> Apparently here the process involves at least a solicitor, a mortgage adviser, a lender, the seller, the seller's solicitor, the lender's surveyor, and probably some others as well.
01:57:54 <fizzie> And allegedly everyone remortgages their mortgages all the time.
01:58:19 <shachaf> Why do better deals keep showing up?
01:58:24 <fizzie> Well, every couple years.
01:58:43 -!- nooga has joined.
01:58:45 <shachaf> Are interest-only mortgage the best?
01:59:00 <doesthiswork> can you borrow money in finland for a place in london?
01:59:03 <fizzie> AIUI, you get a good deal for your first K years (for K of around 2 to 5), and then you remortgage when it would switch to the lender's default rate.
01:59:44 <fizzie> Plus there's freeholds, leaseholds, shared freeholds, commonholds, and I suspect a few other holds as well.
02:01:33 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, commonholds correspond to the most common arrangement (for flats) in Finland, where the people living in the building own a share in a company that owns the building, and then pays for someone to manage the things that need to be managed and makes the decisions that need to be decided.
02:02:02 <HackEgo> latin//LATINA EST SVBLIMISSIMA LINGVA MVNDI
02:02:13 <fizzie> But apparently no new-ish commonhold flats exist, because the developer companies can't extract as much money from the tenants that way.
02:03:24 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:03:35 <shachaf> Sounds like a condominium thing in the US?
02:04:19 <fizzie> Maybe. All I know about condominiums is that the word is very fancy, and resembles CoDominium, which is a sci-fi universe.
02:05:38 <shachaf> Aha, Wikipedia confirms it.
02:06:11 <shachaf> The Suomi link points to Asunto#Asuinhuoneisto
02:06:52 <shachaf> fizzie: How should I get leverage?
02:07:02 <fizzie> I think that's just a general word for a flat.
02:07:21 <shachaf> Maybe real estate is the best way to do it.
02:07:32 <shachaf> I hear leverage is the best.
02:07:56 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:08:01 <fizzie> The Asunto#Asuinhuoneisto section just says it's a thing meant for a place someone can live in.
02:12:50 <fizzie> I've been looking into setting up an alerting system, but I don't know how I could trust the alerting system to be working without something alerting me if it breaks.
02:14:17 <fizzie> I don't know yet. I want something that'd show up on things I'm looking at.
02:14:29 <fizzie> If you mean 'on what', I'd like to know when the wiki breaks, for example.
02:14:39 <fizzie> It's already got monitoring, but not alerting.
02:14:46 <shachaf> Not an alarm on your flat, for example.
02:14:50 <shachaf> What sort of monitoring has it got?
02:15:00 <shachaf> Shouldn't a monitoring system be able to alert automatically?
02:15:30 <fizzie> Three of the systems involved in the monitoring can do alerts, but I haven't configured any of them to do so.
02:16:57 <fizzie> There's a collectd instance on the wiki machine scraping stuff out of nginx (collectd can do alerts), it's sent to an InfluxDB for storage (the TICK stack includes a separate tool called Kapacitor for alerting), and I look at it with Grafana (the very latest Grafana versions do alerting).
02:17:41 <shachaf> Isn't Grafana more of a UI?
02:17:49 <fizzie> Yes, but they're building an alerting in it.
02:18:08 <shachaf> Of those systems it seems that the one I'd want to alert would be Kapacitor.
02:18:09 <fizzie> Apparently it was a heavily requested feature.
02:18:13 <shachaf> Well, I've never used Kapacitor.
02:18:38 <shachaf> collectd can presumably only alert on the values it collects, rather than queries based on historical values etc.?
02:18:59 <fizzie> Building alerting in Grafana may make sense so far as to it providing a nice user interface for configuring alerts.
02:19:49 <shachaf> I've been running Prometheus recently. It's a Borgmon clone.
02:20:10 <fizzie> So you said. I had a look at Prometheus, but I've spent a little bit too much time fiddling with the current setup already.
02:20:25 <fizzie> Incidentally, InfluxDB and the rest of TICK are also written in Go, as Prometheus.
02:20:36 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/esoqps.png
02:21:14 -!- tromp has joined.
02:24:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:40:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
02:41:36 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
02:41:51 <shachaf> I think the data model is richer or something? I don't know.
02:43:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LIMERICK CHICKEN).
02:44:15 <shachaf> Did you see that Facebook released their time series database recently?
02:45:18 <shachaf> fizzie: that mean request processing time is p. high
02:45:19 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:47:04 <shachaf> Everything is being written in Go nowadays. :-(
02:49:12 <fizzie> I think I heard something about the Facebook thing.
02:49:47 <fizzie> And Microsoft released something to do with large repositories in Git.
02:50:09 <fizzie> https://github.com/Microsoft/GVFS
02:51:02 <fizzie> "With GVFS, this means that they now have a Git experience that is much more manageable: clone now takes a few minutes instead of 12+ hours, checkout takes 30 seconds instead of 2-3 hours, and status takes 4-5 seconds instead of 10 minutes."
02:55:11 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:56:40 <fizzie> (I was going to say "huge" instead of "large", but turns out the repository they're talking about has just 3 million files.)
02:59:17 -!- myname has joined.
03:02:43 <shachaf> That's only a couple orders of magnitude smaller than Google's, according to http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2016/7/204032-why-google-stores-billions-of-lines-of-code-in-a-single-repository/fulltext
03:03:03 <shachaf> Whenever I mention a Google thing (like CitC the other day), I feel obligated to include a citation.
03:16:36 <fizzie> I just look up a citation I *could* include, but don't.
03:17:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite [citation needed]).
03:22:13 -!- nal has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)).
03:24:40 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:28:33 -!- VisualizeR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
03:29:26 -!- Cale_ has joined.
03:29:30 -!- VisualizeR has joined.
03:36:13 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
03:37:23 -!- IRIXUser has joined.
03:37:46 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest7544.
03:40:50 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:41:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:46:47 -!- nooga has joined.
03:52:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
03:53:24 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
04:00:11 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
04:09:21 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:09:40 -!- MDude has joined.
04:15:25 -!- Cale has quit (Disconnected by services).
04:15:28 -!- Cale_ has changed nick to Cale.
04:15:48 -!- Cale_ has joined.
04:50:44 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:52:41 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
05:06:25 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:14:53 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:23:04 -!- Cale has joined.
05:34:54 -!- nooga has joined.
05:37:55 <shachaf> What language should be used to specify build system configuration?
05:39:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:44:01 -!- VisualizeR has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
05:47:48 <Cale> shachaf: At the company I work for, we use nix. I really wish that nix's language was just Haskell.
05:48:18 <shachaf> Nix's language seems very complicated.
05:48:30 <shachaf> But also it doesn't really seem like a build system configuration language?
05:48:39 <shachaf> It doesn't replace Makefiles/cabal/whatever.
05:48:53 <Cale> It's not so much that the language itself is complicated, it's that the way people use it is complicated and often undocumented, and impossible to discover because it's untyped.
05:49:25 <Cale> Well, cabal2nix is involved
05:50:11 <shachaf> Bazel and all Bazel clones use Python. It's not ideal but it's not bad.
05:50:15 <shachaf> I'm not sure what would be better.
05:52:19 <shachaf> Would Haskell be better? Unclear.
05:53:32 <Cale> If nix were simply built in Haskell rather than its own weird inane language, it would be really nice.
05:54:16 <shachaf> Nix seems to be at the wrong level of abstraction, though.
05:54:27 <shachaf> But maybe I just don't understand Nix.
05:54:51 <Cale> There needs to be some sort of transition project which starts out by implementing nix in Haskell with Haskell as the configuration language, and then building a nix interpreter which integrates with that so that all the existing work on .nix files can be leveraged and gradually replaced.
05:55:20 <shachaf> I went to a talk about Reflex FRP the other day, by the way.
05:55:49 <Cale> I've heard the name
05:56:00 <Cale> I'm in NYC for the next couple of weeks btw
05:56:26 <shachaf> NYC pretty good. I should go sometime.
05:56:50 <Cale> Then I'm going to Melbourne for a month off :)
05:57:19 <Cale> Ah, perhaps I should have... it's all already booked though.
05:57:38 <Cale> My stopover is in Hong Kong
05:57:55 <Cale> Gonna be a crazy flight :)
06:00:53 <shachaf> Cale: You should come to BayHac 2017 in Apr.
06:02:11 <Cale> oh man... might be too soon after all this, but we'll see :)
06:04:14 <Cale> Yeah, it's probably not really all that hard -- I just fully expect to be fairly burnt out on travel by the time I get back home toward the end of March.
06:04:53 <Cale> I'm only going to be home for two days between now and March 20
06:06:06 <shachaf> So you have several weeks to rest before BayHac
06:06:20 <shachaf> I'll probably be in NYC in Apr.
06:06:41 <shachaf> But it shouldn't conflict, so it'll all be fine.
06:58:50 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
07:07:21 -!- tromp has joined.
07:12:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
07:14:54 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
07:23:07 -!- nooga has joined.
07:27:39 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
08:30:33 -!- dos has joined.
08:33:39 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:46:53 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
09:11:04 -!- nooga has joined.
09:15:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:16:22 -!- tromp has joined.
09:20:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:27:38 -!- mroman has joined.
09:28:08 <mroman> I fear the day captchas prove to me that I'm a robot.
09:28:27 <mroman> like when I click on "I'm not a robot" and it doesn't trust me.
09:28:45 -!- nooga has joined.
09:28:57 <mroman> there's this funny video of a guy beating the "I'm not a robot captcha" with a robot.
09:30:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:39:49 <mroman> stupid youtube video editor is so fucking buggy
09:47:10 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:03:10 -!- nooga has joined.
10:05:43 <mroman> I'm making very quick guides on how to do stuff
10:05:52 <mroman> following the ms paint quality of graphics tradition
10:05:57 <mroman> mostly because I suck at graphics :)
10:22:00 <int-e> . o O ( The "MS Paint" school of art was a minimalist art movement in the late 20th and early 21st century. Its proponents were convinced that "name defines function" and therefore, the program called "Paint" would be a suitable medium for producing paintings. )
10:31:21 <mroman> name defines function .
10:32:40 <int-e> however, "Word" is apparently used to write books.
10:34:40 <mroman> I taught an SQL course last year
10:35:29 <mroman> I don't like coding for 8h a day
10:51:31 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
11:01:21 -!- nooga has joined.
11:18:02 -!- tromp has joined.
11:22:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:26:11 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
11:28:00 -!- VisualizeR has joined.
11:40:14 -!- dos has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
11:48:07 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm trying to translate "Grab 'em by the pussy" [for... fun?], specifically discussing whether it'd be "Greift" or "Greifst" or "Greife"
11:50:43 <myname> itjs imperative so either greif oder greift, depending on wether you talk to a single person or a crowd
11:51:05 <shachaf> but maybe you can do that somewhere else or nowhere at all
11:51:25 <shachaf> and in particular not here
12:01:56 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:04:51 -!- VisualizeR has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:14:15 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
12:18:34 -!- tromp has joined.
12:23:00 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:38:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:23:54 <mroman> @msg hppavilion[1] "Packt sie an der Muschi"
13:24:15 <mroman> @tell hppavilion[1] "Packt sie an der Muschi"
13:25:46 <mroman> (but please don't ever use that)
13:27:24 <fizzie> fungot maintenance in progress, please stand by.
13:27:27 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:28:05 -!- fungot has joined.
13:28:31 <fizzie> fungot: Are you feeling quite okay?
13:29:36 <fizzie> I see the incoming messages in the log, but it doesn't seem to be replying.
13:30:07 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
13:30:30 <fizzie> That side works, why doesn't the babbling.
13:32:48 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:34:07 -!- fungot has joined.
13:34:09 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:35:20 <fizzie> Also that's not right, the proxy quits when fungot disconnects.
13:35:25 <fizzie> 05-02-2017 13:37:20 FATAL: Failed assertion in src/log.c(205): olf
13:35:50 <fizzie> Apparently you can turn logging off, but then it will crash whenever a client disconnects.
13:37:54 -!- fungot has joined.
13:38:19 <fungot> That Pong alone cannot stop!
13:38:33 <fizzie> Hmm. I must've messed something to do with saving the bot's own nickname.
13:40:41 <fizzie> Heh, I think it thinks its nickname is the password.
13:42:23 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:42:31 <fizzie> ...still crashes when disconnecting.
13:43:55 -!- fungot has joined.
13:44:01 <fizzie> fungot: How about now?
13:44:02 <fungot> fizzie: it does that fnord to it ( programmer time saved, future extensibility, etc.
13:47:02 -!- Zarutian has joined.
13:47:38 <fizzie> @tell Phantom_Hoover You'll be glad to know fungot now supports a connection password and non-6667 ports, for convenient bouncer use.
13:47:38 <fungot> fizzie: it's like a type fnord ( or something). but when run from unix, and i don't know
14:11:28 <mroman> You know fungot is alive if he says fnord.
14:11:28 <fungot> mroman: it is. the fnord bus actually goes fnord. :p
14:19:37 -!- boily has joined.
14:33:05 <rdococ> where can I think with [the physical implications of] portals?
14:37:09 <rdococ> I'm bored and now I want to discuss the physics of portals... do you know a channel I can discuss such a thing without being met with silence?
14:38:47 <rdococ> ...just as I predicted, silence
14:43:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:48:09 <boily> sorry, don't know of any channel where.
14:48:24 <boily> (also, currently dieing at crawl.)
14:49:30 -!- gsora has quit (Quit: uh-oh!).
14:50:27 * oerjan wanted to make a wisdom where, but then remembered #esoteric is the only channel.
14:51:22 -!- gsora_ has joined.
14:53:29 <HackEgo> universal property//Universal properties are the best.
14:53:41 <HackEgo> high hat//A high hat is the same as a top hat, not the same as a hi-hat, just like how a top quark is not the same as an up quark.
14:54:21 <oerjan> or down. anyway, has its charm.
14:54:28 <oerjan> even if a bit strange.
14:56:17 <boily> physics are weird shit, yo.
14:57:14 <boily> but everything is made of the five elements: boom, orange, pickle, pungent and sweet.
14:57:35 <oerjan> is that discordianism or something
14:59:32 -!- tromp has joined.
15:04:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
15:09:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:09:57 <wob_jonas> fizzie: why do you want to build an alert system? don't people on the channel already alert you?
15:10:59 -!- tromp has joined.
15:11:00 <wob_jonas> and this might be the first time I heard my wisdom cleans something up
15:11:22 <fizzie> I'm not always looking at the channel.
15:12:36 -!- VisualizeR has joined.
15:22:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:29:54 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
15:34:50 -!- myname has joined.
15:37:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Arkenidar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50849&oldid=50710 * Arkenidar * (+79)
15:39:04 -!- S1 has joined.
15:43:05 <oerjan> fungot: feeling more bouncy today?
15:43:06 <fungot> oerjan: but the gui still needs to have the students who failed the exam take the supplementary."
15:43:55 <int-e> fungot: stop being coherent please
15:43:56 <fungot> int-e: although, if you watch movies on your computer? ( they'll actually come and check this!)
15:44:57 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:46:25 <ffj-bot> wob_jonas: pnrmurnkbsttgffqsgqadmt]`]htjeqthsvpsvsnlgdrrfo
15:47:26 <oerjan> fungot: if you don't improve your incoherence ffj-bot will be beating you
15:47:27 <fungot> oerjan: i believe so, a mechanical amplifier... i have enough trouble keeping other /humans/ off my keyboard.
15:48:01 <ffj-bot> wob_jonas: wbebigxljdefqlzjyndvanxyommgniscsyqsgudffwfseti
15:49:25 -!- tromp has joined.
15:55:13 -!- ibrahemgebri has joined.
15:58:35 -!- ibrahemgebri has quit.
16:00:02 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined.
16:00:14 <mroman> let's turing test this fungot.
16:00:14 <fungot> mroman: i'm a bit short in the fnord before it totally befunged me.
16:00:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:00:47 -!- augur has joined.
16:07:31 -!- DHeadshot_ has changed nick to DHeadshot.
16:08:47 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:10:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
16:16:21 <boily> mrelloman. fungot is feeling a little short in the fnord. don't sentience him today.
16:16:21 <fungot> boily: ( the whole compiler uniformly used a cps lambda calculus for the people that i don't
16:17:00 <Zarutian> hmm... a rogue like where the floor is inscribed in befunge patterns and some enemies must follow the instructions.
16:22:14 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:22:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:23:16 <boily> Zarutellon. more like battlebots trying to selfmodify the same program to trip the other ones into oblivion?
16:24:24 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:31:01 -!- VisualizeR has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.21 :: www.esnation.com )).
16:33:37 -!- nooga has joined.
16:34:16 -!- gsora_ has changed nick to gsora.
16:35:11 <HackEgo> calzone//A calzone is a part of California. They include norcal and socal.
16:35:24 <boily> . o O ( wasn't it "nocal"? )
16:35:30 <HackEgo> ic//ic what you did there.
16:35:45 -!- gsora has quit (Quit: uh-oh!).
16:36:41 -!- gsora has joined.
16:36:48 -!- tromp has joined.
16:38:49 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
16:41:31 <HackEgo> murphy'//Murphy's law obviously does not hold in wisdom/
16:44:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:45:39 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:46:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
16:52:54 -!- S1 has left ("Leaving").
17:01:35 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:39:42 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:55:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ABOUT CHICKEN).
17:59:53 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:05:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:10:30 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:16:47 -!- idris-bot has joined.
18:18:29 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:19:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:20:31 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:29:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:51:51 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:00:44 -!- tromp has joined.
19:02:54 <wob_jonas> heh heh. I knew that Knuth's homepage has been changed: whereas it used to say that TAOCP vol 5 is estimated to be ready in 2020, now it says 2025. But I just realized that vol 3 second edition says that the reworked version of vol 3 is estimated at 2015. Funny.
19:05:20 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:05:54 <fungot> mroman: this is one place where i used essentials of programming languages
19:08:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:10:30 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:10:35 -!- mroman_ has joined.
19:17:03 <int-e> fungot: you seem to have mastered syntax, but what about semantics?
19:19:35 <wob_jonas> semantics? what does that mean? it's just a word
19:20:24 <int-e> wob_jonas: it was talking about essentials of programming languages
19:20:41 <int-e> wob_jonas: which for some inexplicable reason I associate with the string "syntax and semantics"
19:26:37 <ais523> "semantics" has a mathematical definition
19:27:03 <ais523> but in this channel, it's normally used to describe the method via which a programming language gives meaning to a parse tree
19:27:11 <ais523> (with the syntax being the way the source code is converted into a parse tree)
19:27:42 <wob_jonas> ais523: sure, I'm just being silly in a self-referential way, but it wasn't very funnt
19:28:11 <ais523> oh, I completely missed the joke, you need at least a pair of quotes for it to work though
19:30:15 <int-e> I saw the circularity but thought it was a troll attempt rather than a joke, sorry. (An honest and complete answer would become *very* lengthy, and I'm not sure I would be up to giving one.)
19:46:57 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
19:53:00 <HackEgo> Syntax is just a subset of grammar.
19:53:06 <HackEgo> Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax.
19:53:10 <HackEgo> Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax.
19:53:36 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culprit: not found
19:57:32 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:11:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:12:14 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:17:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:18:25 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:23:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:46:31 -!- Guest7544 has quit (Changing host).
20:46:31 -!- Guest7544 has joined.
20:46:33 -!- Guest7544 has changed nick to JX7P.
20:47:15 <HackEgo> 1166) <fungot> int-e: such were the idle tales of the fnord
20:49:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
21:00:32 -!- tromp has joined.
21:05:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:11:13 <wob_jonas> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
21:15:11 <zzo38> Do you know what is best way to do with OpenGL to replace a texture and a set of vertices with data from mmap()ed memory during every frame without lagging?
21:15:13 <int-e> Hmm, there was that message that made Marvin smile? "We apologize for the inconvenience.".
21:17:10 <Zarutian> zzo38: well there will be lag as the texture will have to be DMAed from main memory to graphics card memory
21:18:43 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes, but I would want to try to reduce the amount of lag and also to reduce the amount of slowness
21:19:31 <zzo38> (And I want to copy a set of vertices as well as a texture, and then to render those things in a display list)
21:23:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:25:19 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I just wanted to know the best way to do; it does not have to be perfect. (Also, I haven't tried anything yet)
21:25:40 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
21:27:09 <Zarutian> zzo38: the lag will always be there due to this bottleneck that is the bus between the graphics card and main memory. This is true even with systems that say that they use unified memory. (In that case, unless the memory is dual ported, it will cause contention between CPU and GPU. And often there is no mapswapping of memory banks. (CPU does stuff with memory bank A while GPU has memory bank B and then they switch)
21:28:02 <Zarutian> I think there is something called transfers sets or command lists but I havent looked at OpenGL (nor (in)DirectX for that matter) in a long while now.
21:28:08 <int-e> https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Buffer_Object ... no I'm not reading that now (and it won't give you the answers you want anyway... it'll depend on the hardware. for example, the hybrid CPU and GPU packages with shared memory have the benefit that no DMA is taking place. PCIe has reasonably fast access to main memory too, I believe.
21:29:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:29:31 <int-e> I think buffer objects are the modern abstraction for everything now, I mean look at this list of types: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Buffer_Object#General_use
21:30:20 <wob_jonas> It's good to know there are people on this channel who know about gpu stuff
21:31:07 * int-e doesn't really... it's on my "I should take some time to properly (re)learn this" horizon)
21:32:34 <wob_jonas> it's on my list of things I don't want to learn about
21:36:44 <zzo38> Why do they make it so complicated? (Many older kind of computers do not make it so complicated and so confusing)
21:38:20 <Zarutian> int-e: re the hybrid CPU and GPU packages: see what I said about contention. (Which is more accuratly said to be port contention)
21:39:43 <int-e> Zarutian: yes, I know it's not a free lunch.
21:41:00 <Zarutian> zzo38: depends on which older computers. Many just give you a frame buffer memory that you can write pixels into.
21:41:31 <int-e> (In the end hybrid or standalone GPU will be just another variable for deciding where best to put your various buffer objects)
21:41:49 <Zarutian> int-e: I am just rather befuddled why they want to add pressure on the memory to GPU or CPU bottleneck.
21:43:52 <zzo38> My own design was just for CPU and video to be clock interleaved, and video memory can be mapped anywhere in the main memory space (usually RAM, but it does not have to be), and then a display list is executed during hblank in order to change the setting of what to draw on that scanline.
21:44:33 <Zarutian> zzo38: so basically, ATARI esque setup
21:44:58 <int-e> Zarutian: shared memory = simpler design? I've heard the point (I think in a talk by John Carmack) that a lot of data has to travel from the CPU/main memory to the GPU each frame *anyway* and having shared memory (= direct access of the GPU to that data) might very well make this cheaper overall... I'm skeptical but it's definitely not an obvious tradeoff.
21:45:00 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes, somewhat, but more sophisticated.
21:45:55 -!- copumpkin has joined.
21:45:55 <int-e> Zarutian: I can see an unambiguous advantage in not sharing the frame buffer though.
21:46:01 <wob_jonas> actually, I think the video chipset being the most complicated part of the computer is the rule, ever since the first video terminals, and the IBM PC with its dumb simple video cards are the exception
21:46:41 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
21:47:17 <Zarutian> int-e: perhaps, but I have seen old designs where they used crossbar switch between CPUs, GPUs, DMA drivers and memory banks.
21:48:39 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: the reason for that was the price of memory iirc versus logic die size. (If you could use a specialized logic to lessen memory consuption for video terminal stuff then you did)
21:49:48 <int-e> Zarutian: damn there was a cute story a while ago where somebody ran benchmarks and they got quite consistently faster after 30 minutes or so... that was with a shared framebuffer, and after 30 minutes the display would switch off, freeing a noticable fraction of the memory bandwidth (1920*1080*60*4 = 500MB/s, it would be more today). I have no idea how to find it again :-/
21:49:57 <wob_jonas> and I think part of the reason why memory capacity (as opposed to latency) became relatively cheaper compared to other stuff in the computer is partly that DRAM starts out big but scales better to larger RAM sizes
21:50:25 <Zarutian> int-e: the beuity of it was that there were usually no contention between diffrent accessors to same memory banks.
21:50:29 <int-e> wob_jonas: possible?
21:50:29 <wob_jonas> I did main memory throughput benchmarks
21:50:42 <wob_jonas> and found that it got faster when the screen saver started
21:50:58 <zzo38> Zarutian: But I think the Atari ANTIC only allows executing one display list instruction per hblank, and many settings could not be set by the display list. My own design does not have these limitations.
21:51:10 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: the contention was with the throughput. I didn't try to measure latency in that case.
21:51:53 <int-e> wob_jonas: did you just have graphs or also some text online? but I guess reading it here would be memorable enough for me.
21:51:55 <Zarutian> zzo38: sure. But the basic idea is the same.
21:52:37 <Zarutian> int-e: it just had one 'huge' drawback: cost. At least at that time.
21:52:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:53:10 <Zarutian> (cost as in relatively expensive to manifacture than other cheaper yet worse methods)
21:53:12 <wob_jonas> If you had a complete copy of the logs, you could probably find it.
21:54:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:54:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:55:51 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
21:56:04 <Zarutian> zzo38: I have somewhere in my ideas file an draft of an spec where instead of an application being only limited to framebuffers, textures, voxels, uniforms and simple gpu shader kernels, they could send a whole program expressed in a binary language that was on the level of primitive recursive function level and therefore guranteed to terminate.
21:57:11 <Zarutian> zzo38: a bit like ReGIS&Sixel, Ripscrip, NAPLPS or Apple QuickDraw commands list (PICT) in that regard
21:57:52 <int-e> Zarutian: probably still is expensive... otherwise more multicore CPUs would offer more than 2 memory interfaces.
21:58:18 <Zarutian> so feel free to discuss your ideas regarding this here, zzo38 ;-Þ
21:58:24 <int-e> (perhaps 4 is the norm now for high-end CPUs?)
21:59:49 <Zarutian> int-e: well that design didnt have multi core CPUs, just a number of CPUs (Called Computing Processing Units just to get the acronym to fit ;-)
21:59:58 <int-e> (just looking at intel and amd here, fwiw)
22:00:00 <zzo38> Zarutian: I would have had it a bit differently; the program is not guaranteed to terminate but if it does not terminate it will restart anyways during each vblank. That way loops and so on are possible and you can implement your own tiles perhaps
22:01:25 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is there much difference? A primitive recursive program could still easily loop as much that it terminates only after the universe has ended.
22:01:52 -!- tromp has joined.
22:02:24 <wob_jonas> As for CPU and memory interface, what I really wish for is for Intel to figure out a sane way in future x86_64 cpus how the OS can opt for a mode where all pages are at least 8K (or at least 16K) sized,
22:02:35 <int-e> Zarutian: sure, but to make it analogous, a multicore-CPU is just several CPU's, and possibly GPUs on a single die, communicating with external buses (memory, PCIe, more?) and in a perfect world there'd be a crossbar switch between all those components...
22:02:51 <zzo38> My own design did allow loops too and also did that (restarted the program during each vblank), but could not execute during rendering so you had to program the registers to control rendering during each scanline (it renders tiles eight pixels wide, or can render in pixel mode instead, but cannot mix them in a single scanline; also tiles are only one pixel high but the display list can change the character base address during each scanline in order
22:02:57 <wob_jonas> because the 4K page size is currently causing the cpus to not being able to have more than 8*4K L1 data cache
22:03:11 <wob_jonas> and that limitation would be so useful to get over.
22:03:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:03:17 <zzo38> Actually in my design, the display list program can't terminate, although there is a "wait for next scanline" instruction.
22:03:20 <Zarutian> zzo38: one trick I did way back when first there was a computer in the house and I was programming stuff in QBASIC was to keep a copy of video memory block where the mouse cursor was to be drawn to be used to undo the cursor drawing when the mouse was moved.
22:03:35 <int-e> Zarutian: the reality will be less than ideal and probably too complicated for my poor little brain :)
22:04:12 <Zarutian> zzo38: just because it otherwise took too long to redraw the screen and there wasnt enough memory to do dual buffering. Worked well for other sprite kind of stuff too.
22:04:50 <int-e> Zarutian: one cute point of the hybrid design is that a GPU can potentially access data by snooping CPU caches without going via main memory at all.
22:05:17 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: right, PC video cards didn't have built-in sprite support of any sort (and have other limitations too), which is why they're so hard to use.
22:05:43 <wob_jonas> People still ended up doing magical stuff with PC video cards of course, but still.
22:06:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:06:20 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: I was rather pleased with my ten yearold self when I figured out that trick on my own.
22:06:41 <zzo38> My own design does include built-in sprite support though, but the display list program still has to alter the sprite Y scroll register during each scanline
22:07:42 <zzo38> (Also my own design has no display list interrupt like ANTIC has, because it is unnecessary. There is still the vblank interrupt though.)
22:08:14 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: and my brother was rather impressed that I had added mouse cursor (and gui buttons) to an fractal drawing program that we had copied from an photocopied then faxed computer programming magazine article.
22:08:46 <int-e> Zarutian: hmm, and all that sounds like I really like those hybrids, and I actually don't... but the tradeoffs are all but clear, and the reason is that both the hybrids and the standalone GPUs are really hard to reason about.
22:09:00 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: did that use machine code (non-BASIC) for some of the computation?
22:09:01 <int-e> (performance wise)
22:10:12 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: none what so ever, took a while to draw the fractal, just did a ?interrupt? check in the next innermost loop iirc
22:10:19 <zzo38> A program I wrote in QBASIC to implement a solitaire card game used a XOR picture for the mouse cursor instead, and undid the mouse cursor before drawing anything else on the screen and then redid it afterward. (But there were no GUI buttons; the mouse was used only to select which card to move, and other operations were done by keyboard)
22:12:12 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: so if you swinged the mouse about it actually executed a bit slower, but you could pause the fractal drawing etc.
22:13:32 <Zarutian> I am a bit sad that this thing sucumbed to a bad harddrive sector.
22:15:41 <Zarutian> when I discovered Forth I was rather pissed because Beginners' All Situations Interchange Computerlanguage was rather crappy and used the confusing mathematical notation I have come to loath.
22:16:20 <Zarutian> And here was this thing all along that was much better so long you didnt mind RPN.
22:16:44 * Zarutian hears Marvin sigh electronically
22:16:45 <zzo38> As an example of what I was asking before about OpenGL is to consider a fragment program such as this http://sprunge.us/XSHI and may want to change the name table during every frame.
22:17:22 <zzo38> (Note this program is not quite a standard ARB fragment program; it uses a preprocessor to convert the fractions with slashes into decimals.)
22:18:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:18:20 -!- mroman_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:18:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:19:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:21:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:22:28 <zzo38> And the program that writes it may be JavaScript using mmap.js (a Node.js package), so that is why I wanted to know the best way to upload the texture every frame. Also for sprites it may wanted to have a list of shapes to upload too every frame. (And the shader program to use would not necessarily be the one I posted; the JavaScript code may upload a different fragment program.)
22:30:26 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:34:33 <zzo38> Therefore, can you answer my question?
22:40:32 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:42:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:44:24 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:49:28 -!- nooga has joined.
23:00:59 <zzo38> Do you know that answer, please?
23:02:28 <Zarutian> int-e: said something about Buffer Objects so you could start there.
23:04:16 <shachaf> copumpkin: Do you think comments make sense on diffs directly like that, or in a code review tool?
23:04:29 <zzo38> I did read about Buffer Objects, but am unsure the best way to use them (without causing too much desynchronization and/or other problems).
23:04:31 <shachaf> I do wish more people used good code review tools.
23:04:40 <copumpkin> I want to "tell a story" in my code review
23:04:49 <copumpkin> but there's no reason not to start at diffs
23:05:47 <Zarutian> zzo38: well you have deplete me of my GPU knowledge. Perhaps ask in #OpenGL ?
23:06:25 <zzo38> Zarutian: I tried; they won't answer me.
23:09:19 * Zarutian really wished that all terminal emulators supported Sixels (They arent that complex)
23:09:36 <zzo38> Does any one other than xterm do?
23:10:27 <zzo38> Display pictures on a DEC VT terminal
23:10:39 <Zarutian> zzo38: well any other terminals that support VT340
23:11:19 <copumpkin> I'm stuck at ORD for another hour and a bit
23:11:36 <Zarutian> copumpkin: what is ORD in this context?
23:13:47 <wob_jonas> copumpkin: on the way away, or on the way home?
23:14:48 <Zarutian> copumpkin: oh, I didnt catch that from context. Like KEF or BIRK, I gather.
23:15:18 <copumpkin> wob_jonas: way home :) second layover
23:17:44 <Zarutian> airports, it reminds me. A guy I heard of took a frozen water bottle through security because he successfully argued it was not a liquid. Frankly I think the security guys just saw that was water ice and didnt bother further than putting it through the x ray machine.
23:20:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:22:15 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: btw ftp://ftp.cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/terminal/all_about_sixels.txt should illuminate sixels
23:22:26 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: hmm, how does that work? does he pour the melted part of the water on the floor right before he gets to the front of the queue of security?
23:23:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
23:24:00 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: nope, wetish paper towel evaporation cooling. Though he could just have as easily just drunk the melted part before getting to the front of the queue.
23:25:08 <wob_jonas> I know the security people do sometimes let you through even with forbidden objects, I've seen and heard of examples
23:25:15 <Zarutian> the 'no liquids' crap is generally considered rather idiotic by all.
23:25:46 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: no it's not! it's actually one of the more brilliant parts of the rule
23:26:08 <wob_jonas> it makes many people buy drinks in the part of the airplane after security
23:26:37 <Zarutian> or just fill up at the drinking fountain after security.
23:26:42 <wob_jonas> just like how the hand baggage size is also checked only at security, and anything you buy after, including large wine bottles, doesn't count in it
23:26:57 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: sure, some of them do that. I sometimes do too.
23:27:15 <Zarutian> I swear those hand baggage size shrinks every year
23:28:07 <Zarutian> just heard stories from people that do
23:28:12 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: no, it's more like the atoms are getting bigger in every object because of the Hubble constant
23:29:13 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: that is not even internally consistant. Because if they did get bigger then the relative sizes of objects wouldnt change.
23:30:58 <Zarutian> it is just that airlines seem to follow the same semi-parabolic pattern, on large scale, that their airplanes do on small scale.
23:31:39 <wob_jonas> what? airplanes are shrinking too?
23:32:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:33:18 <wob_jonas> or... planes are free falling to the ground in a parabolic path?
23:33:58 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: I said semi-parabolic. They take off get up to crusing altitude then dive and land.
23:36:15 <Zarutian> the Hubble constant is basically saying that more space pops into existance over time. If we think of space as made up of biased smallscale randomly connected graph of planc sized cells then there is new cells coming into existance or at least connecting themselfs into the graph all over the place then...
23:37:51 <Zarutian> ... then it should be rather obvious that atoms which are mostly empty get bigger too at nearly the same rate.
23:39:03 <Zarutian> (the biasing of the graph is basically how space folds and gravity emerges)
23:41:44 <zzo38> Someone had before ask me to make up a Magic: the Gathering card "Demons In Your Nose {UB}", and now maybe they should be added into esolang wiki in article about undefined behaviour or maybe it should go only in the talk page instead.
23:42:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Undefined behavior]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50850&oldid=35567 * Zzo38 * (+251)
23:43:02 <Zarutian> somebody used Cs undefined behaviour to lure in nasal demons and capture them?
23:45:34 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:48:16 <shachaf> I've been to MDW but never to ORD.
23:49:37 -!- tromp has joined.
23:53:50 <zzo38> About my previous question, what I found is that MegaZeux just uses glTexSubImage2D to update the texture during each frame.
23:54:19 <copumpkin> I've never actually been to chicago
23:54:52 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
00:02:07 <zzo38> Ruins {-} Land ;; {T}: Add {0} to your mana pool.
00:03:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
00:05:10 <shachaf> What uses can you think of for that jam?
00:11:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:11:41 <zzo38> O, OK. I don't know.
00:14:12 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
00:15:35 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:17:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:17:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:32:39 <oerjan> `le/rn life//‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
00:32:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'life': ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
01:01:13 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:18:15 <HackEgo> Chicago Ohare Intl (ORD, KORD)
01:30:25 <fizzie> I think that's missing an apostrophe.
01:31:54 <fizzie> I think I've been to six airports in the US, and that's one of them.
01:36:19 <oerjan> hm i've been to five or six, i think, i'm not entirely sure. all west or east coast though.
01:37:17 <oerjan> my memory is fuzzy on which one we returned from the last time i was there.
01:38:16 <oerjan> so it may or may not have been the same as another one.
01:38:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Saihv * New user account
01:43:24 <oerjan> @tell Zarutian <Zarutian> ... then it should be rather obvious that atoms which are mostly empty get bigger too at nearly the same rate. <-- possible atom sizes are quantized, though. perhaps an electron might be pushed into a bigger orbital, briefly, with some miniscule probability.
01:43:24 <lambdabot> Zarutian lets you know: Use memoserv if you want to send me a message when I am offline. Will ignore lambdabot message.
01:44:11 <shachaf> Zarutian gets special treatment in lambdabot?
01:44:22 <lambdabot> tell <nick> <message>. When <nick> shows activity, tell them <message>.
01:44:23 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages auto-reply auto-reply? clear-auto-reply
01:44:28 <lambdabot> auto-reply. Lets lambda-bot auto-reply if someone sends you a message
01:45:37 -!- nooga has joined.
01:46:46 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s,Betty Crocker,Zarutian,
01:46:48 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Zarutian. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:49:08 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname
01:49:49 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:50:25 <oerjan> hm shouldn't use sled on that file.
01:51:38 <oerjan> `` head -1 bin/dontaskdonttelllist
01:51:38 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./&/g' | xargs; exit
01:52:04 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's/\(..\)/\1/g'
01:53:36 <oerjan> `` sled bin/dontaskdonttelllist//s,coppro,alercah, | rot13
01:53:40 <HackEgo> ova/qbagnfxqbaggryyyvfg//rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | frq 'f/./&/t' | knetf; rkvg \ dhvagbcvn \ nyrepnu \ zlanzr
01:53:50 <shachaf> Good thing I'm not on dontaskdonttelllist
01:54:09 <oerjan> well it's not the list for fun puns
01:54:17 <shachaf> Also you ended up pinging you-know-whom anyway.
01:54:39 <oerjan> but not the other two.
01:55:11 <alercah> please remove me from the list anyway
01:55:27 -!- nooga has joined.
01:55:41 <oerjan> `` sled bin/dontaskdonttelllist///alercah/d | rot13
01:55:43 <HackEgo> ova/qbagnfxqbaggryyyvfg//rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | frq 'f/./&/t' | knetf; rkvg \ dhvagbcvn \ zlanzr
01:59:36 <oerjan> i guess Zarutian shall remain ignorant about his crackpottery.
02:01:53 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:06:50 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:10:30 -!- nooga has joined.
02:15:21 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:32:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:35:52 -!- tromp has joined.
03:20:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50851&oldid=50842 * Saihv * (+89) /* Introductions */
03:21:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50852&oldid=50851 * Saihv * (+78) /* Introductions */
03:21:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eitherf*ck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50853&oldid=46439 * Saihv * (+125) Added eitherf*ck interpreter details
03:31:34 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:34:13 -!- kiki` has joined.
03:36:08 -!- nooga has joined.
03:40:35 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:42:09 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s3HfIuof38
03:44:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
03:48:22 -!- tromp has joined.
03:57:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Eitherf*ck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50854&oldid=50853 * Saihv * (+1)
03:58:35 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:01:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:01:47 -!- tromp has joined.
04:03:01 -!- mtve has joined.
04:23:47 -!- Cale has joined.
04:47:33 -!- ais523 has quit.
04:48:22 -!- krok_ has joined.
05:03:00 -!- nooga has joined.
05:07:24 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
05:15:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:06:50 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
06:07:34 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:11:22 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:49:45 <zzo38> I used exiftool to strip Exif data from a photograph, but now I want to add back in the resolution info, and I don't know how to do that. Do you know? (I also will determine the resolution by my own measurements rather than using the data that it used to have)
06:51:03 -!- nooga has joined.
06:55:53 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:12:31 -!- tromp has joined.
07:12:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:16:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
07:20:11 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:47:14 -!- Jafet has joined.
08:26:53 -!- idris-bot has joined.
08:39:31 -!- nooga has joined.
08:44:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:45:00 -!- mecha_magpie has joined.
08:56:11 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
09:12:17 -!- tromp has joined.
09:13:13 -!- mecha_ma` has joined.
09:14:53 -!- mecha_magpie has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
09:16:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
10:13:09 -!- tromp has joined.
10:14:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:17:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:24:41 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:27:59 -!- nooga has joined.
10:53:52 -!- mecha_ma` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
10:54:32 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:02:22 -!- hakatashi has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:02:43 -!- hakatashi has joined.
11:03:28 -!- heroux has joined.
11:19:17 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:21:24 -!- nooga has joined.
11:56:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:59:04 -!- tromp has joined.
12:00:32 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:03:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
12:12:51 -!- rodgort` has quit (Quit: Leaving).
12:16:45 -!- rodgort has joined.
12:28:06 -!- kiki` has joined.
12:47:11 -!- copumpkin has joined.
12:49:59 -!- mecha_magpie has joined.
12:56:37 -!- nooga has joined.
13:01:40 -!- tromp has joined.
13:06:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
13:12:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
13:15:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:52:01 -!- tromp has joined.
14:05:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:13:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:14:53 -!- nooga has joined.
14:30:25 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
14:47:28 -!- nooga has joined.
14:52:14 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:07:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:David.werecat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50855&oldid=39799 * David.werecat * (-63)
15:13:17 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:14:00 -!- tromp has joined.
15:18:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:25:51 <oerjan> Girl Genius: i suspect colette is breaking through there...
15:29:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
15:43:54 <int-e> . o O ( good-bye Paris )
15:44:01 -!- mroman has joined.
15:46:03 <int-e> oerjan: told ya the city net's probably crowded ;)
15:46:54 <oerjan> well, the _huge_ entity is presumably simon voltaire himself.
15:47:36 <int-e> probably, and the other one might be our duplicitous clank friend
15:47:50 <oerjan> that's what i was assuming.
15:49:05 <int-e> (heh heh, "duplicitous")
15:50:01 <oerjan> are you saying you _did_ not do that on purpose, i am disappointed.
15:51:25 <oerjan> . o O ( i don't think "No, I did" is correct english grammar )
15:51:51 <int-e> I thought I outdid myself there, so I allowed myself a little chuckle. :-P
15:53:37 <int-e> oerjan: perhaps it would have been cleaner with a period instead of a comma.
16:21:57 -!- augur has joined.
16:49:26 <\oren\> Elizabeth II Sapphire Jubilee!
16:49:29 <\oren\> 65 years on the throne!
16:52:15 -!- nooga has joined.
16:52:19 <\oren\> hah, Charles will never be king at this rate
17:01:09 -!- mecha_ma` has joined.
17:02:56 -!- mecha_magpie has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:12:42 -!- krok_ has joined.
17:16:17 -!- mecha_ma` has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:16:29 -!- mecha_ma` has joined.
17:16:43 -!- mecha_ma` has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:17:09 -!- mecha_magpie has joined.
17:17:21 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:25:05 <Taneb> \oren\, he's already almost 10 years older than Edward VII was when he acceded
17:26:50 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
17:28:26 <\oren\> now the leftists are like, "Save us, corporate overlords!"
17:30:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
17:35:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
17:42:12 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:45:14 -!- iczero has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
17:45:39 -!- iczero has joined.
17:53:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:54:05 -!- nooga has joined.
17:58:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:04:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:15:19 -!- tromp has joined.
18:19:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:21:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:35:47 -!- augur has joined.
18:35:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:41:11 -!- augur has joined.
18:43:04 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:44:57 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:55:42 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:58:17 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:58:42 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:58:53 -!- nooga has joined.
19:36:11 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
19:36:33 <HackEgo> English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
19:41:12 <int-e> . o O ( fake = not pro-Trump )
19:49:22 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:50:48 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:16:11 -!- tromp has joined.
20:20:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:22:04 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:24:36 -!- kiki` has joined.
20:27:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:30:14 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:33:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:40:33 -!- nooga has joined.
20:44:51 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:54:55 -!- nooga has joined.
21:15:42 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:23:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
21:25:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:48:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:50:47 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:05:08 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:08:40 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:09:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:10:34 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:25:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:37:48 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
22:45:06 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:51:29 -!- boily has joined.
22:54:17 <HackEgo> dwfo//DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra.
22:56:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:13:06 -!- nooga has joined.
23:17:03 -!- krok_ has joined.
23:26:11 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
23:28:16 <boily> Concerto in Towing Pickup Siren ♪
23:28:27 -!- mecha_ma` has joined.
23:28:38 <boily> `relcome mecha_ma`
23:28:41 <HackEgo> mecha_ma`: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:28:58 <HackEgo> 1/2:alg. ii//Algae II, the successor class to Algae I. Discusses hydroponics and such. \ termite//Termites are genericized ants for intellectual property reasons. \ ratatouille//A ratatouille is a stuttering rodent. \ ladder jump//Ladder jump is the phenomenon that in practically all platformer games where the player character can climb u
23:29:24 <HackEgo> 2/2:p on ladders, it's faster to repeatedly jump and grab the ladder than to climb. \ ginorst//Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt.
23:30:06 -!- alercah_ has joined.
23:30:29 -!- Lord_of_- has joined.
23:31:33 <boily> alakra: hellorcah. haven't forgotten you about Feb 12. the instructions will be available probably tomorrow.
23:31:37 -!- yorick has quit (Disconnected by services).
23:33:02 -!- zgrep_ has joined.
23:33:16 -!- gsora_ has joined.
23:33:23 -!- cnr_ has joined.
23:33:49 <boily> alercah, alercah_, not the other tabconfusable one: Feb 12. it isn't forgotten.
23:34:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:26 -!- mecha_magpie has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:26 -!- gsora has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:26 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:27 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:27 -!- alercah has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:27 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:27 -!- zgrep has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:27 -!- cnr has quit (*.net *.split).
23:34:28 -!- cnr_ has changed nick to cnr.
23:34:29 -!- cnr has quit (Changing host).
23:34:29 -!- cnr has joined.
23:34:36 -!- Taneb has joined.
23:37:09 -!- nortti has joined.
23:43:25 -!- zgrep_ has changed nick to zgrep.
23:54:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISCONNECTED CHICKEN).
23:58:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:59:25 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:04:24 <oerjan> `learn_append dwfo http://thedwfo.org
00:04:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'dwfo': DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra. http://thedwfo.org
00:05:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:05:47 <oerjan> `slwd dwfo//s[.] /, </;s/$/>/
00:05:49 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 17: unterminated `s' command
00:06:05 <oerjan> `slwd dwfo//s/[.] /, </;s/$/>/
00:06:07 <HackEgo> dwfo//DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra, <http://thedwfo.org>
00:06:32 <HackEgo> dwfo//DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra, <http://thedwfo.org>.
00:11:10 <lambdabot> ENVA 062350Z VRB05KT CAVOK M02/M10 Q1035 RMK WIND 670FT 15017G29KT
00:13:04 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:32:08 -!- tromp has joined.
00:32:59 -!- yorick has joined.
00:48:41 -!- alercah_ has changed nick to alercah.
00:54:47 -!- iczero has changed nick to wlp1s1.
01:04:11 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:06:28 -!- thegreylady has joined.
01:06:37 -!- thegreylady has left.
01:06:47 -!- nooga has joined.
01:12:36 -!- Lord_of_- has quit (Excess Flood).
01:15:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
01:22:21 -!- tromp has joined.
01:24:37 -!- lynn has joined.
01:34:14 -!- doesthiswork1 has joined.
01:34:39 -!- doesthiswork1 has changed nick to doesthiswork.
01:36:37 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:37:08 <doesthiswork> a neighbor just tried to register her phone with my computer
01:38:32 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:43:07 -!- doesthiswork has changed nick to doesntthiswork.
01:43:50 -!- doesntthiswork has left.
01:50:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
01:51:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
01:55:44 -!- tromp has joined.
01:56:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:34:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:41:55 <\oren\> when is the second americna civil war scheduled for?
02:59:21 -!- nooga has joined.
03:03:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:06:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
03:49:05 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
04:21:16 <hppavilion1> doesthiswork: Did you allow it then steal all her shit?
04:21:52 <pikhq> \oren\: Sometime this year, I think.
04:24:02 <tswett> Hey, what programming languages are out there that have a type system whose power level is on par with Haskell and Scala?
04:24:51 <pikhq> (and its family, such as Ocaml)
04:26:51 <tswett> I'm writing some neural net software in Scala and I'm wondering if I should move to a different language.
04:27:31 <tswett> Scala is treating me pretty well. I think if I were to do what I'm doing in, say, F#, it would just break down and cry.
04:27:44 <hppavilion1> tswett: Also, are Haskell and Scala's type systems' power level... over 9000?
04:28:09 <tswett> I can't think of a funny answer to that question.
04:28:33 <hppavilion1> tswett: Probably something regarding proof ordinals?
04:29:03 <tswett> hppavilion1: yes. In fact, their power level is an ordinal number which cannot be proven to exist in Peano arithmetic.
04:30:51 <hppavilion1> tswett: (a) Are proof ordinals applicable in this context [probably yes] (b) Have the proof ordinals of Haskell and Scala's type systems been found (c) Are they particularly interesting ordinals, or just a "whatever" ordinal (d) what are they?
04:31:23 <tswett> (a) dunno (b) see (a) (c) see (b) (d) see (c) (e) see (d)
04:32:47 <tswett> All righty, lemme see.
04:33:01 <tswett> ML doesn't have typeclasses, but it has "modules", which feel familiar from Scala and Coq.
04:33:36 <tswett> A module can contain type and function definitions, but it can also contain abstract types and abstract functions, to be filled in later by means of inheritance.
04:33:47 <tswett> Scala traits have the same property.
04:37:55 <tswett> Yeah, I guess my main alternatives here are probably Haskell and the dependently typed ones: Coq, Agda, Idris.
04:47:26 -!- nooga has joined.
04:51:29 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:55:18 -!- adu has joined.
05:03:07 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:03:16 -!- fowl has joined.
05:10:54 -!- adu has joined.
05:25:23 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:55:50 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
06:17:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:26:13 -!- tromp has joined.
06:30:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:35:33 -!- nooga has joined.
06:39:41 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:08:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:17:45 -!- augur has joined.
07:22:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:46:09 -!- mecha_ma` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:02:34 -!- haavard has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5).
08:02:53 -!- haavard has joined.
08:23:30 -!- nooga has joined.
08:28:07 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
08:35:19 -!- tromp has joined.
08:46:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:24:40 -!- nooga has joined.
09:54:32 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:06:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:11:24 -!- nooga has joined.
10:18:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:27:32 -!- tromp has joined.
10:31:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:28:09 -!- boily has joined.
11:37:57 <HackEgo> costume//Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
11:45:54 <HackEgo> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
11:47:17 -!- tromp has joined.
11:51:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:17:39 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
12:26:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMET CHICKEN).
12:35:02 -!- Akaibu has joined.
12:51:37 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
12:51:59 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:53:18 -!- Zarutian has joined.
12:54:42 -!- Zarutian has quit (Client Quit).
12:57:34 -!- ^v has joined.
13:13:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
13:14:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:15:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xkcdwhatiflist: not found
13:15:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xkcdwhatiflist: not found
13:17:00 <b_jonas> and it actually looks like an interesting one
13:23:49 <HackEgo> 183) <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
13:24:15 <HackEgo> n Additoin. \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: CARROT CACOA CHILI CHICKEN \ Categories: Beverages, Fish, Sauces \ Yield: 4 Servings \ \ ----------------------- \ 2 lb Ground pork; lightly beaten \ 1 tb Heavy cream \ 1/2 c Milk \ 2 tb Canned cooked pineapple, chopped \ 1 ts Cinnamon \ 1 ts Baking
13:24:22 <HackEgo> v8.05 \ \ Title: CONELLY SAUCE CAKE \ Categories: Cakes, Chocolate, Meats, Beverages \ Yield: 4 Servings \ \ 2 c Chicken broth \ 2 tb Sesame seeds \ 1 tb Parsley, dried \ 1 ts Vanilla extract \ 2/3 c Lite red pepper sauce \ 2 ts Vanilla extract \ 1 ts Ground cinnamon \ 1/4 ts Pepper \ 1/8 ts Pepper \ Brown sugar \ 2 tb Sugar \ 1
13:24:30 <HackEgo> Sprigs of diced \ Sour cream \ -chopped onions \ -about 2 oz. salt \ Gined orange peeling skin \ -2 tbsp. \ 1/4 ts Black pepper \ \ Combine the milk, the tomatoes, banana, and salt in a small bowl, mix together the pepper and salt and \ pepper. Whisk in the coconut. Reduce the heat and simmer, uncovered, 20 \ minutes. Stir in remaini
13:36:08 <b_jonas> What is the name for that general scheme for representing algebraic types in untyped lambda calculus?
13:41:15 <b_jonas> you know, the one where you represent a tuple (x,y) by (\f.fxy) and you represent (Left x) by (\f.\g.fx) and (Right y) by (\f.\g.gy)
13:48:56 -!- tromp has joined.
13:52:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:53:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
13:57:12 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:09:22 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/xk*: No such file or directory
14:13:03 <oerjan> b_jonas: church encoding or scott encoding (they're different when the types are recursive)
14:16:15 <oerjan> hm i may be confused about the differences
14:21:22 <oerjan> hm or wikipedia's scott encoding article is confused.
14:26:33 <oerjan> and the church encoding article only looks at limited examples, and seems to contradict the scott article for lists.
14:28:36 <oerjan> (i think the problem amounts to "church encoding is much more complicated for general recursive data types)
14:32:46 <b_jonas> oerjan: maybe they differ in how they define the algebraic data types that they are trying to encode?
14:33:29 <oerjan> well, church encoding needs to know how a type occurs recursively in itself, in order to create well-typed representations
14:34:17 <oerjan> while scott encoding doesn't bother with that, so treats constructors as not caring what's put into them
14:35:28 <b_jonas> ok... though just from that, church encoding could still be a special case of scott encoding
14:36:07 <oerjan> not really. there's only one scott encoding for a type.
14:38:47 <b_jonas> according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding#List_encodings , lists are encoded in some strange way, as tagged stuff rather than enums
14:39:03 <oerjan> b_jonas: yes, that article is really confused.
14:39:15 <oerjan> that's not a well-typed representation at all.
14:39:16 <b_jonas> I never understood why they'd do that in lambda calculus
14:39:50 <b_jonas> I mean, I can understand why you'd encode enums as a tagged struct in some languages
14:39:56 <b_jonas> just not in lambda calculus
14:39:58 <oerjan> the right fold representation is the well typed one.
14:41:39 <oerjan> the one pair version is a cute hack
14:41:53 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding doesn't even seem to tell how to encode an arbitrary algebraic type in lambda calculus
14:42:34 <b_jonas> it just encodes Lists and some other types, though of course there are ways to encode algebraic types as Lists
14:43:16 <oerjan> i think the problem is, that to many people, "church encoding" is just a general term for any way of encoding stuff in lambda calculus.
14:43:37 <oerjan> and that article is written from that viewpoint.
14:45:00 <b_jonas> you know how there's Gödel encoding, which encodes statements of some logical system as natural numbers, and it works by first writing the statement as a list of characters from some character set, and then encodes that list of characters to a number?
14:45:18 <b_jonas> for a long time I didn't understand why they encode a flat list this way, rather than some recursive structure
14:46:11 <b_jonas> does my initial question make sense about why this is a flat list, as opposed to a parse tree?
14:46:17 <b_jonas> I'll tell the solution afterwards
14:46:25 <oerjan> yes. and i have a guess at the answer...
14:46:52 <oerjan> it's possible that peano arithmetic or whatever isn't powerful enough to recurse into such a structure.
14:47:39 <b_jonas> this encoding is used to show that proof is definable in a particular weak system
14:48:33 <b_jonas> that system is Robinson arithmetic, which is a crazy weak logical system
14:49:04 <oerjan> the other guess is that gödel just didn't think of doing it that way, and it works with characters.
14:49:16 <oerjan> both may be true simultaneously, of course.
14:49:19 <b_jonas> Robinson arithmetic is so weak that you can't really prove anything in it,
14:50:09 <b_jonas> oerjan: Gödel himself isn't too relevant here, he's the first one who did this and so his name is used, but people later defined other versions of the encoding and still used flat lists
14:50:43 <b_jonas> Robinson arithmetic has a language that has addition and multiplication
14:50:51 <oerjan> i guess robinson arithmetic cannot do exponentials, which is sort of essential to nesting the construction.
14:51:02 <b_jonas> as such, it is not even obvious why you can manipulate flat lists with it
14:51:13 <b_jonas> or why you'd choose to work with such a crazy system
14:51:21 <b_jonas> why you don't just choose one that has lists built in or something
14:51:38 <b_jonas> anyway, it turns out there's some crazy trick that lets you define lists in Robinson arithmetic
14:52:25 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
14:53:01 <b_jonas> and lets define getting the nth element of a list
14:53:04 <oerjan> obviously you choose to work with it because you want to find the weakest system where gödel's theorem works
14:53:08 <b_jonas> which means you can also quantify over all elements of the list
14:53:44 -!- ^v has joined.
14:53:49 <b_jonas> so you can express a statement that something is true for all adjacent pairs of elements of a list, or similar
14:54:19 <b_jonas> but it wouldn't directly let you express that something is true for all elements of a tree, except by going through flat lists
14:55:03 <b_jonas> you can define cons, car, cdr if you want, but you can't directly state a statement that something is true everywhere on a tree, so you can't define whole tree transformations
14:55:17 <b_jonas> you can do anything with a tree too of course, but only by using lists first
14:55:30 <b_jonas> so since they have to use lists in first place, they didn't go on
14:56:22 <b_jonas> oerjan: maybe, though "weakest" is somewhat subjective
14:56:45 <b_jonas> there is at least one system that is neither weaker neither stronger than RA that you can also use for this
14:57:28 <oerjan> i didn't say you _could_ find the weakest system, i said you _wanted_ to hth
14:57:49 <b_jonas> anyway, yes, there is some reason to use that system
14:57:59 <b_jonas> or at least some similar system with the same problem
15:00:28 <b_jonas> and even if you use another system, you'll probably run into this same problem
15:01:01 <b_jonas> even if you have a system that has first-class lists, unless it has something like a crazy multi-level tree indexing primitive or something
15:05:06 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:07:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:08:00 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:17:34 <oerjan> oh the one pair encoding is sourced from tromp's paper
15:20:39 -!- augur has joined.
15:25:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:49:52 -!- tromp has joined.
15:54:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:01:50 -!- greenlight has joined.
16:02:55 <int-e> AFAIR the "crazy trick" is just based on the fact that there are finite arithmetic sequences of pairwise coprime numbers of arbitrary length (and size of numbers), plus the CRT.
16:04:26 <int-e> so... basically f(a,b,c)[n] = c % (a + b*n) can encode arbitrary finite lists
16:08:49 -!- Vampz has joined.
16:09:03 -!- Vampz has left.
16:23:26 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, something like that
16:41:07 -!- augur has joined.
16:47:37 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
16:57:22 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
17:05:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: /baɪ/).
17:34:22 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
17:50:47 -!- tromp has joined.
17:55:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:57:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:58:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50856&oldid=50511 * Osuka * (+173)
18:12:15 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:21:51 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:13:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
19:25:37 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:31:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:34:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:39:18 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:51:39 -!- tromp has joined.
19:56:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:58:21 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:03:39 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:04:04 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:04:07 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use Kubernetes to manage jobs and things?
20:25:03 <\oren\> I need an email of someone who understands techspeak
20:30:34 -!- Akaibu has joined.
20:34:35 -!- greenlight has left.
20:38:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:41:15 <fizzie> shachaf: It sounds kuul. I think you should.
20:41:50 <fizzie> I'm not really managing anything.
20:43:02 -!- augur has joined.
20:44:04 <fizzie> Also upon further reflection, I don't think I really want monitoring as such, mostly because I don't have anything that gets traffic. I think I'm more interested in just making up arbitrary long-term time series that can then be turned into those wiggly lines, and the monitoring/alerting aspect is more of an afterthought. And that's why I'm using InfluxDB instead of Prometheus.
20:44:14 <fizzie> (I read those threads about long-term storage in Prometheus.)
20:45:11 <shachaf> And you don't want to join, I guess, is the other constraint.
20:45:54 <shachaf> What sort of query language should you use for querying time series databases?
20:45:59 <shachaf> You should invent a good one.
20:46:27 <shachaf> But I guess first you should stop working at your current employer, so that you can release it.
20:48:32 <fizzie> I'm not entirely sure the query language should be inherently time-oriented.
20:48:50 <fizzie> Speaking of scow, Bazel doesn't have proto_library either.
20:49:04 <shachaf> I didn't specify that it should be.
20:49:48 <fizzie> There's an objc_proto_library, which is documented in be to have "proto_library dependencies", but there's no proto_library.
20:50:19 <fizzie> And there's a proto_lang_toolchain, which "Specifies how a LANG_proto_library rule (e.g., java_proto_library) should invoke the proto-compiler", but there's no java_proto_library either.
20:50:40 <shachaf> You can try https://github.com/pubref/rules_protobuf
20:50:45 <fizzie> (Actually AIUI it does in fact have built-in rules for java_proto_library and friends, but they're undocumented and not working correctly.)
20:51:35 <fizzie> It does have https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/blob/master/tools/build_rules/genproto.bzl
20:52:45 <fizzie> They're supposed to open-source the real proto_library and java_proto_library and such, but it doesn't have those yet.
20:53:14 <shachaf> I tried writing some Buck macros for protoc ones but it was kind of scow.
20:54:08 <shachaf> There's no equivalent of Scowlark
20:57:19 -!- Cale_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:20:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Finianb1 * New user account
21:27:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:29:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:29:43 <\oren\> https://www.rt.com/usa/376621-trump-korea-putin-crimea-waters/
21:29:48 <\oren\> US congresswoman thinks Putin is invading Korea kekekekekekekekeke
21:34:33 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:35:50 <\oren\> int-e: and this morning Nancy Pelosi called Trump "President Bush"
21:36:12 <int-e> I'm not sure that either Bush deserves that kind of insult.
21:36:33 <\oren\> maybe she wishes "Jeb!" was the president
21:48:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50857&oldid=50852 * Finianb1 * (+169)
21:49:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50858&oldid=50857 * Finianb1 * (+17)
21:51:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50859&oldid=50856 * Finianb1 * (+181) Add a Quine
21:51:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50860&oldid=50859 * Finianb1 * (+1) /* Quine */
21:52:34 -!- tromp has joined.
21:56:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:57:06 <int-e> s/shellcode/ethical hacking/, cute
21:57:28 <int-e> (second edit of the last four)
22:01:01 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:37:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:38:17 -!- ^v has joined.
22:45:46 -!- brandonson has joined.
22:45:46 -!- brandonson has quit (Client Quit).
22:54:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:11:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:23:35 -!- boily has joined.
23:23:44 -!- tromp has joined.
23:23:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 072321Z 05021G27KT 4SM -SN DRSN SCT015 OVC025 M10/M13 A2975 RMK SC3SC5 PRESFR SLP080
23:27:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:29:00 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/VLenin_1917
23:29:58 <shachaf> you should be a revolutionary like lenin
23:30:37 <\oren\> by following this account and the others linked to it, you can see the russian revolution reenacted on Twitter
23:31:17 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/RT_1917
23:32:03 <boily> да здравствует партия!
23:34:28 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
23:36:07 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting).
23:37:56 <boily> fungot: do you embrace any political ideology?
23:37:56 <fungot> boily: any where eof=0 and cells wrap ( at 8 bits) by char
23:38:11 <boily> fungot: playing it safe.
23:38:11 <fungot> boily: lots of extras. is easier to match brackets on
23:38:24 <boily> fungot: of course, I say.
23:38:25 <fungot> boily: i haven't cited these because i don't understand how to program without becoming a rainbow
23:38:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:38:52 <boily> `addquote <fungot> boily: i haven't cited these because i don't understand how to program without becoming a rainbow
23:38:52 <fungot> boily: then launch fnord with mutalisks and zerglings to keep defenses busy while mutalisks bombed from above
23:38:54 <HackEgo> 1310) <fungot> boily: i haven't cited these because i don't understand how to program without becoming a rainbow
23:40:20 -!- Melvar has joined.
23:43:03 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:44:31 -!- idris-bot has joined.
23:50:20 <fizzie> fungot: You're a rainbow
23:50:20 <fungot> fizzie: only that it wasn't absolutely bios dependent
23:51:01 <shachaf> fungot isn't absolutely bios dependent?
23:51:02 <fungot> shachaf: in the same way as bfbasic) so far
23:51:14 -!- staffehn has joined.
23:55:58 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:01:44 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:03:56 <boily> alercah: HELLORCAH! ALERCAHELLO! WHARGHARBL! GHARHGHRHGHGHBLBLBLBLFLFLFLFL!
00:05:20 * oerjan gives boily a heimlich maneuver so he can cough up that mahjong tile
00:05:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:05:59 * boily projectiles the tile across the room
00:15:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:25:13 -!- tromp has joined.
00:39:49 <HackEgo> xml//XML stands for "X-treme Mega Language (of Awesomeness)"
00:46:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:52:31 * Zarutian saw a news item that Hans Rosling had died and is a bit sad.
01:00:23 -!- Aretasya has joined.
01:02:25 -!- Aretasya has quit (Client Quit).
01:06:23 -!- ffj-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:06:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:07:59 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:11:21 -!- nooga has joined.
01:12:38 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 622 seconds).
01:13:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
01:15:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
01:16:08 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:19:43 -!- adu has joined.
01:21:35 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit).
01:27:08 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:49:21 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
02:08:02 <boily> @tell alercah hellorcahello. Baobab, 4800 Wellington H4G 1X2, Feb 12, 12pm.
02:08:08 <oerjan> first world problem: someone at the grocery shop put a bread of the cheapest kind in a bag for one of the fancier ones (3-4 times the price)
02:09:40 <boily> I will yakuman you into oblivion, just watch me :P
02:09:45 <alercah> boily: confirm it's in verdun?
02:09:59 <boily> yup. either de l'Église or Verdun station, your choice.
02:10:14 <boily> oerjan: that is terrible!
02:11:04 <oerjan> not as bad as when they don't manage to bake it properly, anyway.
02:11:57 <oerjan> or as that time i found a rusty screw inside, i may have told that on the channel
02:11:58 <boily> many summers ago I worked the boulangerie at a supermarket. exactly 100% of what was sold came flash frozen in cardboard boxes.
02:12:16 -!- nooga has joined.
02:14:25 <oerjan> or wait, was the screw back when i was still at university
02:14:49 <oerjan> in which case i told it to someone else, presumably.
02:15:32 -!- Perenelle has joined.
02:16:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:27:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CRIMSON CHICKEN).
02:30:36 -!- adu has joined.
02:38:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: NNNZZZite).
02:43:13 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
02:48:27 <adu> hppavilion1!
02:49:29 <adu> I have no idea what EKRPAT means
02:50:12 <adu> so tomorrow is a huge office meeting
02:50:22 <adu> and I want to get the most out of it
02:50:42 <adu> which means either one of two things: (1) powerpoint presentations,
02:51:03 <adu> or (2) woopie cushions
02:55:26 <hppavilion1> adu: Can you do a powerpoint presentation ON woopie cushions?
02:57:14 <adu> it will probably be 1 hours of CEO talking, and 30 minutes of inter-mingling, lunch, then where did everyone go?
02:58:13 <adu> I actually set my defualt keyboard to Dvorak for about 6 months
02:59:22 <adu> but I was using Emacs the whole time, and I was on Dvorak with Modifier Qwerty mode, so I could never make the switch, because of Emacs
03:01:33 <hppavilion1> adu: I'm considering setting my mouse to polar coordinates, just to see what happens
03:01:53 <adu> because I would have to send <CTRL>-B to send <CTRL>-X to emacs, and I don't know emacs at all, it's all in my muscle memory, so while I was successful in training my mind to type in Dvorak, I couldn't train my Emacs muscles to think in Dvorak
03:02:01 <adu> lololololololololol
03:04:03 -!- tromp__ has joined.
03:04:03 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:08:18 <adu> so I started writing a book about HTTPS
03:08:31 <adu> I'm pretty sure it will take me 175 years
03:08:53 <adu> because I'm explaining the implementation of HTTPS in MMIX assembly
03:11:04 -!- tromp has joined.
03:11:09 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:11:43 <adu> I was thinking of calling it "The Art of Web Connections"
03:11:49 -!- Perenelle has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:13:01 -!- nooga has joined.
03:17:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:25:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
03:27:41 -!- tromp has joined.
03:34:03 -!- augur has joined.
03:41:23 <adu> good night
03:41:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
04:13:48 -!- nooga has joined.
04:18:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:14:32 -!- nooga has joined.
05:18:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
05:21:12 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:27:40 -!- FireFly has joined.
05:40:25 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:52:06 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!).
05:52:06 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit ...).
06:00:08 -!- krok_ has joined.
06:15:22 -!- nooga has joined.
06:19:41 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:41:23 -!- tromp has joined.
06:46:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:51:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Essays/A Defence of Brainfuck Derivatives]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50861 * Challenger5 * (+6314) Created page with "Here's my take on this (~~~~): <blockquote>BF is one of the most well-known esoteric languages. It is a simple language based on a Turing machine, and, with 8 instructions, i..."
06:52:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Essays/A Defence of Brainfuck Derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50862&oldid=50861 * Challenger5 * (-8)
07:02:56 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:03:56 <hppavilion1> Do Norwegian fonts usually support an 'fj' ligature the same way English fonts support 'fi'?
07:06:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:16:18 -!- nooga has joined.
07:20:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
07:32:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:43:52 -!- augur has joined.
08:17:03 -!- nooga has joined.
08:21:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:22:57 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
08:41:02 -!- tromp has joined.
08:43:21 -!- fractal has joined.
08:45:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:48:03 -!- ais523 has joined.
08:48:41 <ais523> can anyone help me identify this byte sequence: 22 22 22 ea 11 22
08:49:23 <ais523> I downloaded a list of statistical information from Google Books; specifically, a list of the most commonly used words and punctuation marks in English
08:49:44 <ais523> it's apparently the third-most commonly seen punctuation mark, after " and .
08:50:42 <ais523> and only 8 words are more commonly seen (the, of, and, to, in, a, is, that); it's more common than "was"
08:52:19 <ais523> it's particularly concerning because the rest of the file appears to be in UTF-8
08:53:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:17:53 -!- nooga has joined.
09:22:25 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
09:34:20 <b_jonas> the double quotes make it look like it's a double quoted form of 22 EA 11, but that doesn't explain anything
09:35:52 -!- hakatashi1 has joined.
09:36:31 <b_jonas> ais523: does the file have invalid utf-8 or unexplained control characters elsewhere? if so, those could help
09:37:25 <b_jonas> maybe try grepping for it?
09:39:01 <ais523> invalid utf-8 is hard to grep for, so I'm grepping for ASCII control chars
09:39:52 <ais523> also it appears right at the start of a file that's otherwise in alphabetical order
09:40:14 <b_jonas> wait, it's at the start of the file?
09:40:30 <b_jonas> it could be some sort of header rather than an actual entry
09:40:34 <ais523> well, it appears on multiple lines of the file
09:40:43 <b_jonas> I assumed the file was in frequency order
09:40:46 <ais523> the file's sorted alphabetically and then by year
09:40:55 <ais523> this appears for a number of different years, at the start of the file
09:41:08 -!- jix_ has joined.
09:41:14 -!- Guest66676 has joined.
09:41:19 -!- viznut_ has joined.
09:41:19 <ais523> so it's very much formatted like an entry
09:41:26 <ais523> it's just massively invalid
09:41:27 <b_jonas> well, it could be a real entry that's alphabetically the first according to some collation
09:41:52 <ais523> actually, it probably is first
09:41:53 <b_jonas> if it appears multiple times for years... that's strange
09:42:00 <ais523> " is the second letter of the alphabet, after all :-P
09:42:14 -!- tromp has joined.
09:42:17 <b_jonas> ais523: it's hard to explain how it comes before just a quotation mark, since it's a suffix
09:42:26 <ais523> (and ! and " are in different files, with the split between files being arbitrary)
09:43:06 <b_jonas> so no more control characters... ok
09:43:24 <ais523> which one is \x11, anyway? vertical tab?
09:43:30 -!- Bowserinator_ has joined.
09:43:53 <ais523> but that doesn't explain the unmatched \xea
09:44:41 <b_jonas> as for non-utf8, you can search with iconv -f utf8 -t utf8
09:44:50 <b_jonas> which will find the first invalid utf8
09:44:55 <b_jonas> so you'd have to drop these lines
09:45:48 -!- hakatashi has quit (*.net *.split).
09:45:48 -!- Bowserinator has quit (*.net *.split).
09:45:48 -!- viznut has quit (*.net *.split).
09:45:48 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split).
09:45:49 -!- alakra has quit (*.net *.split).
09:45:49 -!- Guest66666 has quit (*.net *.split).
09:46:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:50:06 <ais523> looks like it's the only invalid utf-8
09:51:06 -!- alakra has joined.
10:00:53 -!- nooga has joined.
10:02:13 <b_jonas> it could perhaps be not a real word, but a proxy entry that stands for something, like all other words not listed in the file or something, but even then it's strange. You'd have to look near the source docs or ask other people who have used these files maybe.
10:12:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:31:29 <fizzie> ais523: I don't know why, but in my copy (of the version 2009 Google Books ngram unigrams), that's 22 22 22 15 12 22 instead of 22 22 22 ea 11 22.
10:31:48 <ais523> fizzie: but equally nonsensical?
10:32:10 <ais523> or, well, slightly less nonsensical as it is at least valid utf-8
10:32:18 <fizzie> Yes. I assume it's the "corresponding" entry; because it's the only thing containing a " other than the single ".
10:32:24 <ais523> do you have any idea what it's for?
10:32:26 <fizzie> (At the start of file -8.)
10:33:45 <fizzie> No idea, really. The files are "nominally" tab-separated CSV (in the sense that they have .csv in the file name), so it could've been the (equally nonsensical) 22 15 12 quoted, though the single " isn't quoted, so maybe not.
10:35:06 <fizzie> By the way, \x11 is DC1, not the vertical tab. (Vertical tab is 11 decimal, \x0b.)
10:35:30 <ais523> that's an easy mistake to make when your ASCII table just says "11"
10:35:54 <ais523> mine actually lists the decimal and hex in different columns, I must have been looking at the wrong column
10:36:08 <fizzie> It doesn't make any more sense from the ASCII perspective as DC1, of course.
10:37:32 <fizzie> Since it's us, I'd've expected something protobuf-related, but that doesn't really make sense either.
10:39:36 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
10:39:52 <shachaf> I wanted to add something about liking wiggly lines.
10:40:05 <shachaf> But maybe that wisdom entry already has more than enough content.
10:40:22 <fizzie> Maybe you should add an actual wiggly line. I really like those in-line sparklines people do as well.
10:41:27 <fizzie> ais523: FWIW, there's nothing similar in the 2012 version of the dataset, at least in the "punctuation" or "other" categories. (It's split to files by first letter, not arbitrarily to files of equal size.)
10:42:02 <ais523> the most /useful/ split would probably be by frequency
10:42:16 <ais523> as you're more likely to care about the more frequent ngrams than the less frequent ngrams
10:42:24 <fizzie> shachaf: Yes. Although maybe that's not so much of a "line".
10:43:14 <shachaf> ▃█▅▅█▅▃▃▅█▃▃▁▅▅▃▃▅▁▁▃▃▃▃▃▅▃█▅▁▃▅▃█▃▁
10:44:19 <fizzie> Doing it like ⣀⢄⠡⠢⠤⣀ is kind of nice as well, but cuts the vertical resolution to half.
10:55:45 <ais523> you get much better horizontal resolution when using a variable-width font, though
10:55:49 <ais523> which might be enough to compensate
10:57:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
10:57:45 -!- nooga has joined.
11:01:40 <shachaf> Do you have any esoteric database query languages?
11:03:45 -!- gsora_ has changed nick to gsora.
11:05:39 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, but there's one I was considering to make
11:09:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
11:17:57 -!- boily has joined.
11:19:11 -!- ffj-bot has joined.
11:19:49 -!- iovoid has joined.
11:19:54 -!- iczero has joined.
11:33:25 -!- lastpunisher has joined.
11:33:31 -!- lastpunisher has left.
11:40:17 <HackEgo> gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet.
11:40:42 <lambdabot> CYUL 081100Z 24003KT 220V300 7SM FEW004 SCT008 OVC020 M02/M03 A2929 RMK SF1SF2SC5 SLP922
11:41:45 -!- ais523 has quit.
11:41:54 <lambdabot> KATL 081125Z 27005KT 1/2SM R09R/4500VP6000FT BR OVC003 13/13 A2978 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1 TWRINC T01330133
11:43:09 -!- tromp has joined.
11:44:42 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPsn17_a8-g
11:47:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:07:06 -!- nooga has joined.
12:11:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Clubby789 * New user account
12:19:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50863&oldid=50858 * Clubby789 * (+217) /* Introductions */
12:20:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50864&oldid=45685 * Clubby789 * (+0) /* Nested loops */
12:20:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CASTOR CHICKEN).
12:20:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50865&oldid=50864 * Clubby789 * (+2) /* Nested loops */
12:21:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~ATH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50866&oldid=50865 * Clubby789 * (+1) /* Nested loops */
12:24:50 <\oren\> I have a software that automatically renders graphs like that
12:25:13 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/grph.c.htm
12:28:59 <\oren\> 2017Feb08Wed12:29:30UTC ~$ ~/grph <<<'1 2 3 4 5 3 5 6 7 2 1' ▄█
12:43:31 -!- Akaibu has joined.
13:01:41 -!- tromp has joined.
13:06:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:09:55 -!- tromp has joined.
14:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:27:17 -!- MDead has joined.
14:29:41 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:29:51 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude.
14:38:51 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:51:25 -!- Bowserinator_ has changed nick to Bowserinator.
14:51:29 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host).
14:51:29 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
14:58:34 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
15:02:32 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:30:21 <oerjan> @ask boily who is Solain, anyway?
15:30:46 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
15:30:56 <HackEgo> goat:Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details. \ gotton:gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. \ Binary file reflection matches
15:31:24 <HackEgo> 3619:2013-09-03 <oerjän> mv wisdom/goat{s,} \ 10137:2017-01-15 <boil̈y> learn Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details.
15:31:59 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 3619 wisdom/goat
15:32:00 <HackEgo> Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details.
15:32:07 <b_jonas> what? goats don't drink tea?
15:32:58 <HackEgo> Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details.
15:33:04 <HackEgo> Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details.
15:33:16 <HackEgo> 3607:2013-09-03 <boil̈y> learn gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet.
15:34:54 <b_jonas> is there a description of this dowg family if commands somewhere?
15:35:04 <HackEgo> `[hd]o[aw][gt] [<filename>] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first.
15:35:22 <b_jonas> what? only three of the letters are variable? that's simpler than I thought
15:35:39 <HackEgo> `culprits` is a program that lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY
15:36:16 <b_jonas> how many letters change in that one?
15:39:01 <oerjan> `le/rn culprits//c[uw]lprits lists the nicks responsible for a file or wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits FILE or `cwlprits ENTRY
15:39:03 <HackEgo> Relearned 'culprits': c[uw]lprits lists the nicks responsible for a file or wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits FILE or `cwlprits ENTRY
15:39:22 <b_jonas> this reminds me to how in svn, the three commands blame, annotate, praise are aliases. you use svn blame to find who did something bad, but svn praise to find who did something good.
15:39:45 <b_jonas> git is pessimistic, it doesn't come with a praise command (though you can define an alias in your config).
15:41:18 <b_jonas> admittedly, svn comes with several aliases out of the box, most of which are abbreviations, whereas git comes with few or none.
15:43:43 <HackEgo> Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
15:44:00 <b_jonas> like command, which has the aliases DEL=ERASE, MD=MKDIR, RD=RMDIR, CD=CHDIR. I have no idea why it has built-in aliases like that. does anyone happen to know?
15:44:24 <b_jonas> it also has PATH and PROMPT command for setting particular environment variables
15:45:03 <b_jonas> it's as if they made that executable in modern times when you don't have to squeeze every byte of space from your operating system executables so that more stuff fits on a floppy
15:48:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:49:18 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:56:04 <b_jonas> (unless perhaps PATH and PROMPT are somehow historically earlier than the environment; I don't know if DOS 2 already has the environment)
15:58:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:19:13 -!- augur has joined.
16:19:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:19:39 -!- Guest61445 has joined.
16:31:48 <b_jonas> oerjan, fizzie: the esolangs wiki are down
16:31:59 <b_jonas> and I wanted to add an article
16:32:10 <b_jonas> (unless it already exists)
16:33:47 <int-e> half an hour gone?
16:33:58 <int-e> b_jonas: you sound a bit impatient
16:34:14 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, because I found an actually interesting esolang out there on the internets
16:34:21 <b_jonas> and want to start an article about it
16:34:56 -!- HackEgo has joined.
16:35:09 <oerjan> today there are two comments on a postcard
16:36:12 <int-e> fungot: what do you know about postcards?
16:36:13 <fungot> int-e: what do the curly-braces do? i don't know; none of those is because my ipod was stolen and i can't believe i actually dread watching movies, but the point of
16:36:31 <int-e> fungot: I'll take your word for it
16:36:32 <fungot> int-e: stop harassing her water bottle.)
16:36:38 <oerjan> int-e: http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/
16:38:17 <oerjan> and both of them are about bugs.
16:38:33 <b_jonas> great, wiki seems to be up now
16:38:57 <b_jonas> fungot: that sounds like suspiciously specific denial
16:38:57 <fungot> b_jonas: fnord/ 221 cpuinfo kallsyms stat exam holding their hand in front of icecube... uh, never mind
16:40:21 <int-e> I think that's too meta for me.
16:40:31 * oerjan wonders when fizzie will get tired of manually fixing the wiki bridge
16:42:07 <b_jonas> I confirmed there's no article about this esolang yet. I'll try to create it later this evening
16:43:07 <oerjan> . o O ( it's The Esolang Which Must Not Be Named and b_jonas will never be heard from again )
16:43:59 <int-e> . o O ( But the chat log will remain... is this all a prank, reinacting a `postcard` episode on #esoteric? )
16:44:36 <int-e> That looks better.
16:45:51 <int-e> . o O ( metacozza )
16:53:04 -!- Guest66676 has changed nick to Guest6666.
16:59:41 <quintopia> oerjan: is it a basilisk language, or a more bloody mary sort of scenario
17:01:11 <oerjan> i don't know, i'm not going to look at it
17:02:24 <\oren\> honestly Alpine doesn't have that many actual settings to fiddle with
17:02:27 <\oren\> and most of those are simply "make email work? [x] yes [ ] no, fuck it up"
17:03:59 <\oren\> so I don't think i could spend much time adjusting alpine
17:05:32 <int-e> . o O ( fiddle with the source code then )
17:05:41 <int-e> or adjust your window manager
17:05:50 <int-e> and how much time, pray, have you spent on that font of yours?
17:06:37 <quintopia> oerjan: that postcard image won't load?
17:07:06 <oerjan> huh, irregular webcomic also updated twice
17:07:13 <oerjan> quintopia: *MWAHAHAHA*
17:07:35 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
17:08:28 <oerjan> int-e: the obvious solution is to turn his font into a mail program. running in lisp.
17:08:39 <oerjan> quintopia: (there never was one)
17:09:15 <int-e> oerjan: what do you mean, that *is* an image.
17:09:27 <int-e> http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/comics/comic.png
17:09:44 <quintopia> but i don't understand why to use it
17:10:04 <oerjan> int-e: ok, technically. people have been asking dmm if it wouldn't be better to make it an actually broken image, but he disagrees.
17:10:07 <int-e> I think it's even more "too meta" for quintopia than it is for me :)
17:10:29 <oerjan> quintopia: i suggesting looking at the FAQ link hth
17:10:40 <quintopia> is the author's note the only part that's supposed to be interesting
17:10:58 <oerjan> (or was it about? i've left the page)
17:11:43 <oerjan> (there's one exception, an april fool's page from way back)
17:11:57 <int-e> what does an autobiography at age 16 have to do with postcards
17:13:05 <quintopia> i guess the idea is that you're supposed to imagine what the image contained. but that seems like too much effort for passive internetainment
17:13:47 <oerjan> i'm not imagining that much. well, i guess i'm slightly curious about what Blackdrip looks like.
17:15:29 <int-e> "The hardest part of making panel 4 was, I kid you not, getting my graphics software to draw a circle. You'd think this would be a basic function of any graphics program."
17:15:45 <oerjan> well, dmm warned that today the comics would be updating an hour late because of server maintenance. i guess things turned out worse.
17:16:04 <int-e> http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/?comic=1487 ... guess how I found this particular one
17:16:51 <oerjan> well there _is_ a Random button.
17:17:27 <int-e> yeah but that wouldn't make a fair puzzle
17:18:02 <quintopia> and nothing would make it an interesting puzzle
17:19:21 <int-e> quintopia: well it wasn't meant for you but for our resident CDOP victim.
17:19:49 <oerjan> int-e: oh. it's the first comic of the first author alphabetically.
17:20:07 <HackEgo> CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order.
17:20:27 <quintopia> except we just call it CDO...no idea what the p is for
17:21:10 <oerjan> . o O ( surely i cannot be the only resident CDOP victim )
17:21:13 <quintopia> and mentioning it was obviously a hint
17:21:16 <int-e> I suppose it's there because three-letter acronyms sound unprofessional and cozy.
17:22:16 <oerjan> no, it's because OCD and OCPD mean different things.
17:22:22 -!- prooftechnique_ has quit (Quit: ZNC http://znc.in).
17:22:26 <quintopia> oerjan: well, i'm certainly not one. I knew one in high school though. Seemed pretty awful. My dad claims to be, but definitely isn't.
17:23:08 <oerjan> i'm not actually diagnosed with either, mind you. afaik.
17:23:16 -!- prooftechnique has joined.
17:23:44 <quintopia> oerjan: oh they are different. the guy i knew was OCD, not OCPD.
17:24:39 <quintopia> my dad may very well be OCPD... he certainly is obsessed with control of his environment
17:28:23 <int-e> 'Some (but not all) studies have found high comorbidity rates between the two disorders' <- "comorbidity" is new to me.
17:34:59 <oerjan> hm no, the maintenance isn't until tomorrow. hm.
17:35:18 <oerjan> perhaps something went wrong with dmm's plan for _how_ to get it updating tomorrow.
17:38:24 <\oren\> wow QC is getting DARK with this transhumanist drama
17:42:49 <\oren\> I didn't check it for severl weeks and wut is this
17:48:26 <int-e> I was wondering why you're bringing it up now that the story arc is pretty much complete
17:59:15 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:59:32 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:00:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:17:13 -!- Herbstkind has joined.
18:35:31 -!- Akaibu has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:35:44 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:35:44 -!- fowl has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:40:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:40:54 -!- heroux has joined.
18:43:36 -!- Guest61445 has changed nick to augur.
18:45:07 -!- ocharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:45:09 -!- zgrep has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:45:09 -!- dingbat has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:45:45 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:46:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:02:24 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC http://znc.in).
19:03:14 -!- prooftechnique has joined.
19:26:36 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
19:29:11 -!- nycs has joined.
19:32:17 -!- ocharles has joined.
19:32:20 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:37:10 -!- zgrep has joined.
19:37:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:41:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:42:59 -!- dingbat has joined.
19:44:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:47:57 -!- Akaibu has joined.
19:48:10 -!- doesthiswork has left.
19:59:35 <HackEgo> olist 1065: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:01:02 -!- nooga has joined.
20:03:22 <FireFly> <shachaf> Do you have any esoteric database query languages? ← does Q count?
20:04:09 <FireFly> (it's part of kdb+, implemented in k I believe)
20:04:32 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:05:02 <shachaf> Should I learn K or something?
20:05:42 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:05:57 <FireFly> APL has a nicer character set, J comes with lots of batteries included, K is kind of to APL as scheme is to lisps
20:06:32 <shachaf> I mean, any language in that family.
20:06:36 <FireFly> it also differs fundamentally in some ways from APL/J, e.g. its basic unit is heterogenous lists instead of homogenous rectangular arrays
20:06:44 <shachaf> Will it alter my thinking about things?
20:07:05 <FireFly> I would say that is the main reason for learning an array language
20:07:43 <shachaf> Will I start writing my C software like http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Incunabulum ?
20:08:19 <shachaf> http://kparc.com/edit.k is pretty good, I guess. Fits on one page.
20:08:46 <FireFly> you probably won't start writing C like that unless you're mad
20:09:11 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
20:09:28 <shachaf> It's a shame it was censored.
20:09:47 <shachaf> i,i http://slbkbs.org/kj-sanity.txt
20:09:50 <FireFly> http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/APLQA.htm has some fun anecdotes
20:10:32 <FireFly> 'The k binary weighs in at about 50Kb. Someone asked about the interpreter source code. A frown flickered across the face of our visitor from Microsoft: what could be interesting about that? “The source is currently 264 lines of C,” said Arthur. I thought I heard a sotto voce “that’s not possible.” Arthur showed us how he had arranged his source code in five files so that he could edit any one of
20:10:32 <FireFly> them without scrolling. “Hate scrolling,” he mumbled.'
20:11:11 <FireFly> I'm not entirely sure AW's approach to C is the best
20:11:18 <FireFly> but he sure does like golfing :p
20:11:49 <shachaf> Is it just golfing or is it a different way of thinking about programming that naturally leads to shorter code?
20:12:50 <FireFly> Well, with e.g. the J incunabulum, some of the defines do make decent sense
20:14:34 <FireFly> I guess it depends on if you look at the C or the APL-family code… but with APL-family code you end up with a lot of folds and similar, and it often makes sense to solve problems by constructing arrays and folding it in different ways
20:15:37 -!- nooga has joined.
20:16:10 <FireFly> The go-to example is probably the GoL-in-APL video, which computes an array of the 9 different ways to shift the 2D field (including an 'identity shift') and then sums those subarrays up
20:16:17 <FireFly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 this video, I mean
20:16:28 <\oren\> Arthur was quite taken with the fact that +.× in Dyalog APL and J are faster on sparse matrices. On Friday morning he talked to me again about it, and asked to see benchmarks on 1000-by-1000 matrices with densities of 1 and 0.1.
20:16:36 <\oren\> I suggested that he could also do this because as I recall k does +.× row at a time rather than the traditional row-by-column.
20:16:44 <\oren\> About a minute later, Arthur said, OK, I have it, and showed me the changed code — he’d inserted if(a) into the middle of a dense pack of characters. I quipped that that indicates he isn’t following the TDD methodology, and that he’s only proven it correct but not tested it.
20:33:16 -!- fowl has joined.
20:35:20 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:56:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:12:35 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
21:12:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:13:37 <wob_jonas> Stack Exchange's parser is even more stupid than I thought. If it sees a bare url surrounded by double quotes or angle brackets, it believes that the closing double quote is part of the url. seriously.
21:17:55 -!- nooga has joined.
21:22:19 -!- augur has joined.
21:24:06 -!- augur_ has joined.
21:24:42 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:25:29 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:26:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:29:36 -!- nooga has joined.
21:29:59 <HackEgo> nooga: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:33:37 <wob_jonas> hppavilion1: I for one think the fi ligature is overused. a lot of fonts have an fi ligature when they shouldn't have one, and the ligature looks way uglier than the combination of the two characters (with possibly some kerning) would look like. I think they add it for signaling only, to show it's a "professional" font.
21:34:13 -!- augur has joined.
21:35:20 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:35:38 <shachaf> FireFly: What are you golfing?
21:35:53 <HackEgo> 4609:2014-04-25 <ellioẗt> addquote <fowl> one day we\'ll be able to put evil people inside mirrors and throw them into space like superman 2
21:35:55 <wob_jonas> it's especially bad when they add a single width fi ligature to monospaced fonts
21:36:03 <FireFly> shachaf: a raymarcher demo for http://js1k.com/2017-magic/
21:36:12 <FireFly> it's down to 1033 bytes currently
21:36:34 <FireFly> it's unfortunately not the most interesting demo :\ because it only renders a static image
21:39:37 -!- nooga has joined.
21:39:39 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:44:51 -!- krok_ has joined.
21:45:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:52:46 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:23:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:25:34 <\oren\> wob_jonas: neoletters is a proffessional font
22:26:47 <shachaf> LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FOREIGN FUNCTION INTERFACE
22:28:16 <\oren\> unicode has a lot of inherited garbage
22:30:13 <\oren\> but one day I'll run ㎰ -ꜷ
22:31:46 <\oren\> the most blatant garbage in my opinion is ₯ which in most fonts has a glyph that was never used for anything.
22:32:05 <\oren\> in greece, or anywhere else for that matter
22:34:10 <\oren\> In my font I replaced it with the vertical delta rho ligature which is attested in greek price tags
22:40:45 <\oren\> of course, ₷ is almost unattested
22:41:22 <shachaf> how's your build system doing today
22:41:33 <shachaf> did you wait 4 hours to build your program
22:43:56 <wob_jonas> \oren\: there's a lot of crazy currency signs that are barely used, which totally makes sense, because in most places, people use only one currency, so the price tags don't need to display any currency sign at all
22:44:11 <wob_jonas> there are also various currency abbreviations made of two or three letters
22:44:38 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:51:38 -!- Herbstkind has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:52:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:53:11 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:57:32 -!- nooga has joined.
23:06:12 -!- FreeFull has joined.
23:09:03 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
23:09:33 -!- boily has joined.
23:10:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:12:38 <HackEgo> cuisine//Cuisine is the posh cousin of cooking.
23:12:45 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 7h 42m 24s ago: who is Solain, anyway?
23:13:18 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. a dude from Israel with a strange goat fixation, IIRC.
23:17:45 <HackEgo> d-module//D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
23:17:50 <shachaf> oerjan: it's kind of scow how grwp always finds reflection
23:17:57 <shachaf> i suppose reflection is the identity of wisdom
23:18:23 <boily> can reflection reflect on anything else besides itself?
23:19:00 <shachaf> anything that survives a flecting can be reflected
23:19:21 <shachaf> you can reflog anything that survives an initial flog
23:20:19 -!- krok_ has joined.
23:22:50 <boily> flect flog flect flog flect flog ♪
23:24:48 <\oren\> shachaf: no I jsut started the build. I'll check tomorrow morning whether it passed
23:25:16 <HackEgo> cumin:Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex. \ taneb:Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but c
23:28:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category. \ browser//A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. \ `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von
23:28:14 <HackEgo> 2/2:Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi. \ yeeesh//See yeesh. \ ^//^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator.
23:28:57 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches \ yeeeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeesh:See yeeeeesh. \ yeeeeesh:See yeeeesh. \ yeeeesh:See yeeesh. \ yeeesh:See yeesh.
23:29:15 <boily> the yeechain should be yanked.
23:33:12 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; for f in *; do echo -n "$f: "; culprits "$f"; done
23:33:43 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \
23:34:01 <HackEgo> hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | xargs
23:34:07 <HackEgo> hlnp --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
23:34:12 <HackEgo> scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
23:34:38 <shachaf> `` sled bin/hlnp//s#share#/hackenv/&#
23:34:38 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 17: unterminated `s' command
23:34:44 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; for f in yee*; do echo -n "$f: "; culprits "$f"; done
23:34:49 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument \ /usr/bin/paste: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \
23:35:02 <shachaf> `sled bin/hlnp//s#share#/hackenv/&#
23:35:04 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
23:35:07 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; for f in yee*; do echo -n "$f: "; culprits "$f"; done
23:35:14 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
23:35:16 <shachaf> That was spammier than I'd hoped. :-(
23:35:17 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeeeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeeesh: tsweẗt \ yeeesh: tsweẗt
23:40:08 <HackEgo> 1/2:partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category. \ browser//A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. \ `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von
23:40:34 * boily and small positive integers makes three
23:41:29 <HackEgo> 1/1:entschuldigung//Entschuldigung is the German word for blaming something on trees moving by themselves. \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ almond bread//Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough. \ england//England is [EXPUNGED]. \ potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
23:43:27 -!- Zarutian has joined.
23:46:19 <HackEgo> 1/1:entschuldigung//Entschuldigung is the German word for blaming something on trees moving by themselves. \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ almond bread//Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough. \ england//England is [EXPUNGED]. \ potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
23:46:34 <HackEgo> 1/1:entschuldigung//Entschuldigung is the German word for blaming something on trees moving by themselves. \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ almond bread//Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough. \ england//England is [EXPUNGED]. \ potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
23:46:36 <HackEgo> 1/1:entschuldigung//Entschuldigung is the German word for blaming something on trees moving by themselves. \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ almond bread//Almond bread is a delicacy made from fractal dough. \ england//England is [EXPUNGED]. \ potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
23:48:44 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAA𝐀𝐀𝐀𝐀𝐀𝐀𝐀𝔸𝔸𝔸𝔸𝔸𝔸ꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲ
23:50:41 <HackEgo> 1/2:oklopol//oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid." \ trick//A trick learnt is a trick half forgotten. \ lifthrasiir//lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at Leag
23:50:59 <HackEgo> 2/2:ue of Legends. \ anagram//Interestingly, "Robert Galbraith" is *not* an anagram of "J. K. Rowling". \ bdsmreclist//* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
23:51:06 <wob_jonas> I wrote so many stupid wisdomes that they come up often in random wisdoms
23:51:28 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Why did you write stupid wisdoms?
23:51:57 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think it's because I didn't understand, and still don't understand, what counts as a good wisdom
23:52:16 <shachaf> But here you say that your wisdoms are stupid.
23:52:55 <wob_jonas> I can't figure out what oerjan counts as a proper wisdom and what he doesn't
00:03:31 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:05:03 <oerjan> wob_jonas: well, you suggested it but not add it for some reason.
00:05:51 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, I didn't add it because I didn't think it would make a very good wisdom
00:06:37 <oerjan> somehow i thought it did, anyhow.
00:06:42 <HackEgo> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
00:07:55 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
00:12:06 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:12:47 <lambdabot> boily said 59m 29s ago: hellørjan. a dude from Israel with a strange goat fixation, IIRC.
00:13:00 <boily> wisdoms are organic. they grow, they wither, they lignify, they get Tanebvented...
00:14:06 <shachaf> Good evening, Mr. Johansen.
00:14:24 <boily> I always get mixed up: is it Johansen or Sørensen?
00:14:49 <shachaf> The one with the / in it is more authentic-looking.
00:15:46 * oerjan swats shæchaf -----###
00:16:14 <oerjan> where the heck do you get sørensen from, anyway
00:16:40 <wob_jonas> I think maybe the wisdom body shouldn't have the "said Marvin" part, but only what Marvin said
00:16:43 <oerjan> i think that's prototypically more danish than norwegian.
00:19:23 <boily> I'm confused since April 2015, and I can't remember why...
00:19:37 * boily wonders where the fungot he got that idea from
00:19:38 <fungot> boily: that's actually a pretty smart bot. ok. 8. ok, he doesn't.)" you
00:20:26 <wob_jonas> fungot, did you tell boily that Sørensen or Johansen?
00:20:27 <fungot> wob_jonas: the slovak name is fnord and it seems rather useless
00:20:39 <wob_jonas> boily: there, it's slovak, not norwegian
00:22:50 <boily> mystery cleared. oerjan is secretly Slovak, with a Danish prototype.
00:23:16 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
00:32:30 <oerjan> ssb seems to have made it harder to find the surname statistics
00:33:01 <oerjan> ok, Sørensen is the 25th most common.
00:33:21 <oerjan> (Johansen remains second)
00:34:09 <oerjan> oh it's from 2013 as well.
00:34:21 <oerjan> shachaf: not very common hth
00:35:45 <oerjan> shachaf: according to ssb, there are fewer than 4 persons with the name Ben-Kiki hth
00:36:24 <oerjan> (which includes the possibility 0)
00:38:47 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:39:41 <oerjan> shachaf: http://forebears.co.uk/surnames?q=Ben-Kiki
00:40:17 <oerjan> apparently there are 110 of you
00:41:13 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=796bHaAtlkE#t=1m hth
00:42:23 <shachaf> one of me, two of me, three of me, four of me, five, six, seven?! / sorry, no more of me
00:45:43 <shachaf> much like a heffalump or a woozle
00:49:36 -!- iczero has changed nick to wlp1s1.
00:52:41 <oerjan> wait, have i missed a previous olist
00:53:25 <shachaf> The one in http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/17.02.01 ?
00:54:45 <oerjan> my stupid brain saw that, and didn't register it as a proper one i guess
00:56:17 <shachaf> what did your smart brain do
01:20:43 <fizzie> oerjan: shachaf: 7 in Finland.
01:20:48 <\oren\> My last name is super duper common
01:21:31 <\oren\> http://forebears.io/surnames/watson
01:22:04 <\oren\> wow, very common in Jamaica
01:26:50 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:29:55 <oerjan> ITL people are being stupid with HackEgo
01:30:22 <oerjan> \oren\: well its an elementary surname
01:32:03 <oerjan> shachaf: i thought making `spam cycle around when it hit the end would be _less_ confusing, but no...
01:32:06 <shachaf> it was only a few mistakes
01:33:11 <oerjan> i didn't know hg log cared about which directory you ran it from, anyway
01:33:43 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; cwlprits hoag
01:33:56 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
01:34:12 <shachaf> Oh, you mean, you thought it always resolved paths from the root?
01:35:13 <oerjan> i was wondering why weren't using cwlprits until b_jonas tested it
01:57:35 <HackEgo> boredom//A boredom is like a kingdom, except ruled by a bore. They don't tend to last very long before people revolt.
01:57:46 <boily> as a boring person, I approve.
02:09:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LETHARGIC CHICKEN).
02:12:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:12:55 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:01:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
03:18:19 <doesthiswork> it is kind of an odd feeling to find abandoned channels with notices, topics, expired domains, and chanserv just watching over it in case anyone returns
03:21:18 <doesthiswork> ok I'll get right on it and register the channel
03:30:17 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:30:54 -!- tromp has joined.
04:04:08 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
04:09:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
04:43:02 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
04:43:02 -!- ChatSharp has left.
05:44:13 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
06:00:56 -!- erdic has joined.
06:30:00 -!- Akaibu_ has joined.
06:33:09 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:33:09 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:33:09 -!- alakra has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:33:21 -!- Akaibu_ has changed nick to Akaibu.
06:33:34 -!- zgrep_ has joined.
06:33:43 -!- alakra has joined.
06:38:19 -!- zgrep_ has changed nick to zgrep.
06:38:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:50:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:59:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:00:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:41:28 -!- augur has joined.
07:42:29 <izabera> does mike wazowski blink or wink
08:54:26 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
09:03:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:19:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:47:18 <b_jonas> http://www.savagechickens.com/2017/02/lucky-day.html slowsand
10:07:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
10:41:04 -!- FreeFull has joined.
10:53:34 <b_jonas> the design of mathml seems to be entirely screwed up
10:54:20 <b_jonas> I'll have to figure out some crazy workarounds since I want to be able to use it
11:33:53 -!- boily has joined.
11:36:53 <HackEgo> denial//Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it.
12:29:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SPRINT CHICKEN).
12:51:00 -!- Akaibu has joined.
13:05:47 -!- Zarutian has joined.
13:29:56 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
13:29:57 -!- ChatSharp has left.
13:52:57 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
13:52:58 -!- ChatSharp has left.
14:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:04:03 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
14:04:04 -!- ChatSharp has left.
14:10:57 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
14:10:58 -!- ChatSharp has left.
14:14:14 -!- kiki` has joined.
14:17:49 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
14:17:49 -!- ChatSharp has left.
14:24:54 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
14:24:55 -!- ChatSharp has left.
14:28:35 <doesthiswork> these are really funny I will have to see if I can use them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_theory_of_relativity#Philosophical_criticism
14:30:23 <doesthiswork> the classical concepts of space, time, and geometry were, and will always be, the most convenient expressions in natural science, therefore the concepts of relativity cannot be correct
14:38:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
14:38:33 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
14:39:43 -!- moony has joined.
14:40:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:42:02 <oerjan> helloony. i have the feeling i haven't seen you in a while.
14:42:53 <moony> i havent been on in a while
14:43:35 <moony> i've been helping wiggle develop the discord bot Beemo, i forgot about IRC for a bit.
14:45:43 -!- planoldjames has joined.
14:47:11 -!- planoldjames has left.
14:51:50 -!- iovoid has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:52:05 -!- iovoid has joined.
14:56:34 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
14:56:35 -!- ChatSharp has left.
15:03:38 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:10:56 -!- heroux has joined.
15:32:29 -!- dingbat has joined.
15:36:21 <Zarutian> what is it called the equiv to conception contraceptions but for pauses, you know so you dont get pregnant ones?
15:40:02 <oerjan> possibly "tact", but it doesn't work for e.g. disaster news
15:42:42 -!- augur has joined.
15:42:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:44:15 <Zarutian> Read somewhere in StarTrek Fanfiction: "A whole Tribble tribe of pregnant pauses followed that statement."
15:45:34 <oerjan> that's a bit of an overuse :P
15:52:57 -!- augur has joined.
15:53:31 <int-e> beware of tribal tribbles
15:53:51 <int-e> . o O ( would tribble facts be tribialities? )
15:54:16 <oerjan> hm tribbles with spears...
15:55:08 <oerjan> int-e: colette seemed briefly to agree with you on the crowding
15:57:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
16:04:54 <int-e> oerjan: I thought so too.
16:50:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
16:50:15 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:50:34 -!- tromp has joined.
16:56:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:08:18 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:09:01 -!- Akaibu has joined.
17:19:58 <izabera> i really hate being bipolar, it's awesome
17:22:58 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/RT_1917/status/829723022227554305
17:27:02 -!- FreeFull has joined.
17:50:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:52:58 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
17:56:09 <\oren\> German submarine warfare poses unacceptable threat to 'freedom of the seas' - President Wilson tells Congress #ActOfWar
18:00:24 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:03:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:11:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:19:18 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:29:59 -!- augur has joined.
18:30:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:38:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
18:38:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:40:19 -!- augur has joined.
19:30:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:32:12 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:35:16 <int-e> izabera: may I say that that sounds wonderfully terrible...
20:03:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:04:39 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:11:04 <zemhill__> web.myfancy: points -27.93, score 3.76, rank 47/47
20:11:19 <HackEgo> 1/2:guard//The guards are immune to electricity. They're humans in rubber pig suits. They're insulated. \ vwwwl//Vwwwls wrw w swgn wf wnswffwcwwnt wwsdwm. \ forty//Forty means "in a fort-like manner". \ skeleton//A skeleton is an unintelligent undead, similar to the zombie but harder to create, because it's lacking most of the body. The b
20:11:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:est skeletons are made by groups of people, so-called skeleton crews. \ patent//Patent is an adjective which means that something is painfully obvious. Often used to rightfully mock people that do not see it.
20:11:46 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
20:12:22 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:13:01 <int-e> . o O ( skeletons are a by-product of creating a politician or any other kind of spineless human )
20:13:44 <shachaf> which politicians are spineless today
20:13:57 <int-e> hmm, s/or any other kind of spineless human/or other spineless creatures/
20:14:56 <int-e> the funny thing about spineless politicians is that they're not memorable at all.
20:16:05 <shachaf> I like the thing someone linked the other day about APL characters.
20:17:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
20:27:17 <shachaf> did you make the build system good yet
20:27:38 <\oren\> should ⍳ be inline with + and -
20:27:43 <shachaf> it's not every day you manage to successfully build your software
20:28:12 <\oren\> the tests all passed too , imainge that
20:47:02 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
20:51:39 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting into new kernel).
20:53:54 -!- FreeFull has joined.
21:13:44 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
21:14:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
21:31:52 <doesthiswork> shachaf: I remember Pike (...) Spine thing as a couple years ago instead of a couple days ago
21:32:05 <shachaf> It was yesterday that it was linked.
21:34:01 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:44:59 -!- krok_ has joined.
21:49:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
21:55:44 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
21:55:59 <HackEgo> 86) <oerjan> insufficient time dilation. try running faster.
21:56:39 <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1
21:56:40 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
21:56:54 <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1
21:56:55 <HackEgo> 1301) <int-e> fungot is here <fungot> int-e: may cause extreme loss of appetite! may cause severe diarrhea and vomiting!
21:57:02 <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1
21:57:02 <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1
21:57:02 <HackEgo> 1283) <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
21:57:03 <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1
21:57:03 <HackEgo> 1283) <fungot> int-e: all right...ill try not to think about your mind. best of luck with it
21:57:04 <HackEgo> 1225) <int-e> (I need to stop talking about my habits so much (Uh I'm doing it again, STOP! (Uh I give up. (Really, I should stop doing this all the time. (AAARGH!)))))
22:00:41 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:07:44 <HackEgo> 1223) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1224) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ ｗｉｌｌ ｃａｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ ｂｙ
22:08:08 <HackEgo> 1/1:447) <monqy> the classic "souls have mass" hypothesis
22:08:17 <HackEgo> 1/4:1223) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1224) <{\[oren]|}> ï½ï½ï½ï¼ï¼ï¼ï½ï½ãï½ï½ï½ï½ãï½ï½ï½ï½ï½
ãï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ï½
ï
22:08:21 <HackEgo> 2/4:½ï½ãï½ï½ãï½ï½
ï½ï½ï½ãï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ \ 1234) <oren> is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] <oren> Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water \ 1247) <oren> int64_t is too long a name <Jafet> It used to b
22:08:25 <HackEgo> 3/4:e too long long, but now it's just too long. \ 1248) <oren> I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea \ 1257) <\oren\> also the letter omega is now known as wubbleyou <\oren\> it's a cuddly doubleyou \ 1260) <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: If I were me, I wouldn't even let you be a /passenger/ on a /normal/ airplane \ 1261)
22:08:29 <HackEgo> 4/4: <\oren\> the upside down command module does mean that the pilot can see the ground while landing \ 1262) <\oren\> scientists can apparently research things even while rotating 30 times a minute \ 1266) <\oren\> i don't actually knwo the details, but i want those responsible, whoever they were to be punished
22:09:18 <\oren\> HEY! the spam spam thing split a unicode charater into bytes!!!!
22:10:46 <HackEgo> cat: spam: No such file or directory
22:10:52 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
22:12:16 <\oren\> I don't know awk, does it suport unicode?
22:13:21 <shachaf> It's not awk which is doing the splitting, it's Python.
22:13:28 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
22:13:32 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
22:13:45 <\oren\> wut, python doesn't suport unicode?
22:13:55 <shachaf> It supports it, but that program operates on bytes.
22:14:13 <shachaf> Since bytes are what counts in IRC line lengths.
22:14:30 <shachaf> You can improve it if you want to. But make sure it stays correct with regard to byte count.
22:14:40 <\oren\> but it should round down to the nearest unicorn character
22:14:55 <shachaf> And also handle invalid UTF-8 correctly, I guess.
22:28:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:30:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:56:22 <\oren\> ▁▁▁▁▂▂▂▃▃▄▄▅▅▆▆▆▇▇▇▇█████████▇▇▇▇▆▆▆▅▅▄▄▄▃▃▂▂▂▁▁▁▁
23:01:33 <int-e> it's a rift in the fabric of space
23:01:40 <\oren\> did you know? ❸ ③ ➂ ➌ are all different unicode characters
23:01:53 <int-e> (reminds me of LOOM)
23:02:38 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:02:43 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:03:12 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:03:13 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:04:24 -!- boily has joined.
23:04:35 <HackEgo> fat//Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, coffee and alcohol.
23:04:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:05:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:06:38 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:07:11 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:08:13 -!- b_jonas has joined.
23:13:23 -!- iaglium has joined.
23:15:09 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/randcard.c
23:15:24 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/randcard.c.htm
23:16:07 <\oren\> this program has a fatal bug
23:16:26 <\oren\> can you see the fatal bug?
23:32:32 <boily> he\\oren\. fatal as in crash, or fatal as in doesn't work as expected?
23:43:59 <\oren\> boily: as in defeating the purpose of the program
23:46:10 <fizzie> It's not a uniform distribution.
23:47:55 <fizzie> 5/256 for the first 48 cards, and 4/256 for the last 4.
23:48:19 <\oren\> correct. the 🃚🃛🃝🃞 are less likely to occur
23:51:04 <fizzie> It is, however, a great chance to use a do-while statement where the body isn't a block.
23:51:35 <fizzie> do x = fgetc(ur); while (x >= 4*52); x %= 52;
23:52:03 <fizzie> It doesn't even look like C.
23:53:26 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:54:04 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:54:42 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s,@,ass-@,
23:54:43 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:55:26 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
23:55:56 <oerjan> hm that seems to have been one of randall's earlier hobbies. was it the first?
23:56:03 <\oren\> fizzie: what if i put the body in paerns
23:56:20 <\oren\> do(x=fgetc(ur));while(x>=4*52);
23:56:59 <boily> fizziello, hellochaf, hellørjan.
23:57:08 <\oren\> it makes it look like two separate loops
23:57:42 <fizzie> It looks a lot like that even without the parentheses, to be fair.
23:58:18 <fizzie> Can't decide which one looks sillier.
00:00:34 <wob_jonas> Question. If there's an esoteric programming language that has two names, because the original name clashes with the name of a later non-eso programming language, but later got renamed, presumably to avoid this clash, then which name should I use to refer it on the esowiki?
00:01:33 <boily> wellob_jonas. the new one, citing the previous name.
00:03:24 <oerjan> indeed it was randall's first hobby
00:03:35 <izabera> what's the largest dot in unicode?
00:03:48 * oerjan just checked all the first 37 xkcds, including hovertext
00:04:18 <\oren\> (x <~- 1) is to (x < 1) as (x < 1) is to (x <= 1)
00:06:16 <fizzie> izabera: "The Unicode standard does not define glyph images. -- The Unicode standard does not specify the precise shape, size, or orientation of on-screen characters." hth
00:06:19 <\oren\> izabera: ● is pretty big
00:07:16 <boily> izabellora. mine is bigger: ⏺
00:07:35 <izabera> thanks but my terminal doesn't render it...
00:07:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:08:03 <fizzie> boily: ⏺ is much smaller than ● in my font, which sort of proves the point.
00:08:51 <fizzie> (I don't know if that even got through.)
00:09:04 <\oren\> it did, but for some reason it's red
00:09:41 <HackEgo> U+1F534 LARGE RED CIRCLE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 94 b4 UTF-16BE: d83ddd34 Decimal: 🔴 \ 🔴 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
00:09:45 <fizzie> It's supposed to be red.
00:09:49 <fizzie> I was just looking for "large".
00:10:02 <boily> http://imgur.com/a/sWtMq
00:10:48 <HackEgo> U+1F789 EXTREMELY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9e 89 UTF-16BE: d83ddf89 Decimal: 🞉 \ 🞉 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
00:11:04 <fizzie> Judging from the name, that ought to be either pretty big, or at least very dense.
00:11:10 <\oren\> my fon't doesnt have that one
00:11:12 <HackEgo> [U+2B24 BLACK LARGE CIRCLE]
00:11:39 <\oren\> actually, why doesnt my fon't have it
00:11:49 <oerjan> <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1 <-- shuf -n 1 hth
00:12:03 <\oren\> wait wtf fingers why are you putting the apostrofe there
00:12:19 <fizzie> There's only six X-X-X-Xtreme characters, and they're all EXTREMELY HEAVY symbols (white circle, white square, greek cross, saltire, five spoked asterisk, six spoked asterisk).
00:13:30 <fizzie> What did the cheap person buy for an engagement ring? U+1f798.
00:13:51 <izabera> how does this look? http://i.imgur.com/Iwpjjo3.png
00:15:18 <\oren\> izabera: try using ･ for the grid
00:15:26 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:15:54 <fizzie> I think we talked about http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16185-go-symbols.pdf once.
00:16:14 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @tell \oren\ ⬤
00:16:31 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:16:43 <izabera> \oren\: better? http://i.imgur.com/wwlb7B3.png
00:16:48 <fizzie> (It even includes the EXTREMELY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE. Synchronicity.)
00:18:00 <\oren\> izabera: i think the root problem is that you don't have a font that supports those characters with a fixed with
00:18:17 <izabera> and if it was black's, k17 is meh
00:19:24 <HackEgo> 5quote \ addquote \ allquotes \ delquote \ pastaquote \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ quote \ quotenums \ quotes \ quoth \ randquote
00:19:37 <\oren\> win my font ･○● would work perfectly together
00:19:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ quote "$@" | shuf -n 1
00:19:58 <HackEgo> 3013:2013-05-31 <oerjän> sed -i \'1i#!/bin/bash\' bin/randquote \ 3012:2013-05-31 <oerjän> echo \'quote "$@" | shuf -n 1\' > bin/randquote \ 3011:2013-05-31 <nooodl̈_> chmod +x bin/randquote \ 3010:2013-05-31 <nooodl̈_> echo \'quote $1 | shuf | head --lines=1\' > bin/randquote
00:20:34 <boily> izabera: I may have missed counting a stone >_>'... and I stand by K17. dubious moves are best moves.
00:21:34 <HackEgo> 962) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
00:21:37 <\oren\> and with my font you could use ➊➋➌➍➎➏➐➑➒➓➀➁➂➃➄➅➆➇➈➉ to show numbers
00:28:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:39:17 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
00:40:23 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
00:42:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:43:05 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:43:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:50:55 <HackEgo> copumpkin//copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president.
00:54:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
00:55:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:57:19 -!- tromp has joined.
00:59:36 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:00:40 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC http://znc.in).
01:14:28 <boily> pumpkins taste good.
01:15:31 <shachaf> `8ball do pumpkins taste good?
01:15:45 <olsner> `8ball is boily wrong?
01:16:22 <shachaf> `8ball is 8ball consistent?
01:26:04 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:29:03 <fizzie> ^8ball Are you consistent?
01:29:38 <shachaf> fungot doesn't need consistency
01:29:38 <fungot> shachaf: ' been busy'.
01:30:04 <fungot> boily: jun 30 fnord bistromath fnord: client fnord: zone transfer ' gehennom.org/ in' denied
01:30:15 <boily> yup, no sentience tonight.
01:30:32 <oerjan> fungot: whence bathyspheres?
01:30:32 <fungot> oerjan: it's too difficult. :-p help would be appreciated
01:31:51 <oerjan> hm the only google hit for that phrase is me asking fungot the same thing in 2008.
01:31:52 <fungot> oerjan: for 30 years esoteric exists in outer space. sometimes they kidnap people." there?
01:32:09 <shachaf> `8ball is fungot consistent?
01:32:10 <fungot> shachaf: no such factoid i added every user on this channel.
01:32:47 <oerjan> i vaguely think i got it from someone's .sig, way back.
01:33:09 <oerjan> but google doesn't give usenet results...
01:35:00 <oerjan> grepping my Mail directory gave nothing, although i think some of the oldest files are zipped.
01:36:17 <boily> fungot: are you an eldritch horror from outer space?
01:36:18 <fungot> boily: http://rafb.net/ fnord) returns a computation whose value is the tick they expire. bought a domain or something else.
01:36:53 <shachaf> oerjan: did you try google book search hth
01:37:19 <fizzie> fungot: Whose money are you using to buy "domains or something"?
01:37:19 <fungot> fizzie: there really wouldn't be needed as you say, that it has a " poop on toast", as you
01:37:59 <fungot> shachaf: " partially" i noticed my book _is_ listed on amazon.
01:38:57 <shachaf> https://books.google.com/books?id=enmvCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA93 hth
01:39:17 <oerjan> shachaf: now i did. still no results with quotes.
01:39:38 <shachaf> well, the one i linked is only off by one letter
01:40:13 <oerjan> well it's not what i'm looking for.
01:40:53 <shachaf> `8ball Is it what oerjan is looking for?
01:42:09 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:43:17 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
01:43:27 <shachaf> `8ball Should oerjan be skeptical?
01:43:27 <HackEgo> That will not be necessary.
01:49:27 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
01:50:07 <shachaf> `8ball is oerjan getting suspicious?
01:50:08 <HackEgo> That is slowly becoming the case.
01:52:05 * boily looks shiftily at oerjan
01:53:58 <shachaf> `8ball will oerjan swat me for this?
01:55:30 <HackEgo> 5880:2015-08-02 <oerjän> revert \ 5879:2015-08-02 <oerjän> rm wisdom/output \ 3516:2013-08-28 <olsnër> touch wisdom/output
01:58:48 <oerjan> i'm sure there must have been a reason.
01:58:55 <oerjan> it's very suspicious. oh no...
01:59:33 <fizzie> oerjan: In addition to asking fungot that in 2008, you also asked the channel in general in 2011.
01:59:33 <fungot> fizzie: it was the decision to use c... oh wait. continuations probably not in the book-box.
01:59:57 <oerjan> fizzie: google didn't show that
02:00:03 <fizzie> Yes, I don't know why.
02:00:26 <oerjan> well, tunes has robots.txt.
02:01:45 <fizzie> oerjan: http://sprunge.us/dAMb
02:02:23 <shachaf> Google found one IRC occurrence but not the other.
02:03:09 <oerjan> afair it's always been spotty.
02:05:35 <shachaf> `8ball does oerjan recall correctly?
02:05:46 -!- Generic has joined.
02:06:08 <Generic> Need help with school Survey https://goo.gl/forms/Vut15Gyx19HXm81u1
02:06:30 -!- Generic has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:28:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLEAMING CHICKEN).
02:50:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
03:14:15 <\oren\> I hate fonts where Θ looks like Ⓗ
03:15:08 <HackEgo> [U+24BD CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H]
03:15:28 <HackEgo> [U+0398 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER THETA]
03:16:07 <\oren\> actually I should fix the appearance of Θ in my font, it looks weird
03:31:17 <HackEgo> U+2B24 BLACK LARGE CIRCLE \ UTF-8: e2 ac a4 UTF-16BE: 2b24 Decimal: ⬤ \ ⬤ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
03:47:32 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:50:59 <izabera> http://arin.ga/cligo1.mp4 spammy preview of my go client
03:53:08 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:53:58 -!- tromp has joined.
04:04:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
04:34:19 -!- Perenelle has joined.
04:48:33 -!- Perenelle has quit (Quit: Bye).
05:41:33 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:56:56 <\oren\> anyway I already complained that the growth rate of the test time is going to be n^2 with the number of features implemented
06:10:06 <izabera> http://arin.ga/cligo2.mp4 spam spam and more spam
06:35:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:35:55 -!- augur has joined.
06:40:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:47:21 <pikhq> Looks like an interesting theorem you're working on there.
07:23:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:32:36 -!- augur has joined.
07:45:53 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
07:53:45 -!- Jafet has joined.
09:06:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:07:14 -!- augur has joined.
09:15:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:35:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
10:00:27 -!- kiki` has joined.
10:10:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
10:16:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:17:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:18:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
10:40:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:43:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
11:03:18 -!- tromp__ has joined.
11:06:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:33:26 -!- boily has joined.
11:37:24 <HackEgo> imaginary unit//The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love
12:20:14 <b_jonas> ARGH I started to write an article about an esolang, but I can't just make it a stub, it's getting long and there's still a lot of things I have to write about, even though I'm not trying to give a complete description in any sense.
12:20:23 <izabera> you can buy it for $20 on itunes, or you can compile it yourself
12:20:36 <izabera> and spend an afternoon trying to build it before giving up
12:20:48 <b_jonas> This happens with EVERY esolangs, which is why I have like ten esolangs on my TODO and can't just create short stubs for them that juts direct people to the right place.
12:21:41 <b_jonas> I know this happens to some other people too, but damn it's annoying.
12:24:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TERMINAL CHICKEN).
12:44:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
12:46:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:47:04 -!- FreeFull has joined.
13:05:37 -!- idris-bot has joined.
14:00:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:12:15 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
14:12:33 -!- heroux has joined.
14:17:11 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:01:24 -!- nycs has joined.
15:14:48 -!- LKoen has joined.
15:18:58 -!- thamus has joined.
15:19:16 -!- thamus has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is").
15:20:15 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:23:02 <HackEgo> 6374:2015-12-11 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn imaginary unit/The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love
15:23:20 <oerjan> sounds like a surreal number
15:30:04 <oerjan> fizzie: i thought i already hinted to you that the wiki bridge might be down, although admittedly that was _before_ anyone had made new edits...
15:30:33 <oerjan> (and possibly before it actually went down, then)
15:32:44 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
15:35:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xkcdwhatiflist: not found
15:36:24 <oerjan> i guess it's 154, the number is a bit awkward to get to.
15:36:52 <oerjan> `makelist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas
15:36:54 <HackEgo> makelistlist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas: shachaf
15:37:36 <oerjan> `` makelist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas
15:37:38 <HackEgo> makelistlist xkcdwhatiflist: shachaf
15:38:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
15:38:23 <HackEgo> name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
15:39:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: I think it's mklist, not makelist
15:39:35 <oerjan> no, it's definitely makelist
15:39:38 <HackEgo> cat: bin/mklist: No such file or directory
15:39:57 <oerjan> i just didn't remember that adding names required ``
15:39:57 <b_jonas> oh right, makelist did work
15:40:07 <b_jonas> it even triggered the makelistlist
15:41:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
15:45:56 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
15:46:42 <HackEgo> list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun!
15:46:53 <oerjan> b_jonas: i was actually just looking at the code to copy it
15:46:55 <HackEgo> quintopïa Zarutiän jeffl3̈5 BlueProtomän fizzïe hppavilion[1̈] Phantom_Hoovër int-̈e b_jonäs boil̈y a`a`a`a`jo7äs a`a`a`a`jo8äs a`a`a`a`jo3äs a`a`a`a`jo6äs a`a`a`a`jo5äs a`a`a`a`jo4äs a`a`a`a`jo2äs a`a`a`a`jo1äs a`a`a`a`jonas̈0 a`a`a`̈a lambdaböt chicken_jonäs mynam̈e
15:48:37 <oerjan> `sled bin/makelist//s,^,if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi;,
15:48:39 <HackEgo> bin/makelist//if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi;name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
15:48:56 <oerjan> `makelist makelisttest hi ho
15:48:58 <HackEgo> makelistlist makelisttest: shachaf
15:49:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ set -e \ export LANG=C \ cd /hackenv/bin;exec ls -dF *[lL]ist*
15:50:11 <HackEgo> cat: bin/listlistlist: No such file or directory
15:50:18 <HackEgo> cat: bin/makelistlistlist: No such file or directory
15:52:00 <oerjan> `sled bin/makelist//s,fi;,& ,
15:52:02 <HackEgo> bin/makelist//if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi; name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
15:54:00 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:54:24 <oerjan> i figure spaces in list names are useless anyway
15:54:55 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:55:04 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:55:47 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:55:55 -!- mroman has joined.
16:01:11 <oerjan> . o O ( hm should i have used && )
16:03:03 <int-e> `` echo 'I should have used &&. ' | sed 's/.*/&&/'
16:03:04 <HackEgo> I should have used &&. I should have used &&.
16:03:48 <oerjan> . o O ( now make it a quine )
16:05:17 <oerjan> indeed, if i had i'd probably have made error.
16:05:40 <oerjan> why do the words exist in my head bu not my fingers
16:12:08 -!- mroman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:12:31 -!- mroman has joined.
16:14:46 -!- mroman has quit (Client Quit).
16:17:40 <oerjan> . o O ( shouldn't "at those low temperatures" be "at those low pressures" in the latest whatif )
16:20:05 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:22:34 <int-e> `` sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'"
16:22:35 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'"
16:23:27 * oerjan wasn't actually expecting you to do it, but then this _is_ #esoteric
16:24:30 <int-e> (it's kind of cheating because it's relying on both bash and sed to do some of the work... but I'm not feeling bad about that)
16:25:09 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ q2 \ ruby \ slashes
16:25:11 <int-e> `` sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:25:11 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:25:18 <int-e> 42 is nicer than 0x22 ;-)
16:26:20 <oerjan> `mkx quines/sed&bash//sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:26:32 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:27:32 <b_jonas> we have a quines directory? I have a few quines I wrote. many in perl or J, a few in C, two or three in sqlite, a few in other languages
16:27:34 <Taneb> How does that work?
16:28:13 <oerjan> `le/rn mk//`mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
16:28:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'mk': `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
16:28:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: in sed s command, and ampersand in the substitution text is replaced by the whole match of the regex
16:29:31 <b_jonas> oerjan: nice quine by the way
16:30:31 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="
16:31:05 <int-e> (this has the same basic structure to my mind)
16:33:06 <b_jonas> I should collect all my quines somewhere, because currently I'm keeping them all around various wobsites and mailing lists and stuff, and keep having to search for them
16:35:11 <b_jonas> shachaf, oerjan: the languages in the two entries I recently added to the esowiki, do they count as esoteric on topic stuff?
16:35:30 <b_jonas> (I don't care if they count as languages, because the esowiki has non-language articles too. I'm asking if they're esoteric.)
16:36:16 <oerjan> i think they count as background articles, at least
16:38:38 <b_jonas> There are about ten more languages I should write about, listed on my user page, but I'm lazy.
16:39:16 <oerjan> . o O ( what's polyunsaturated )
16:42:51 <b_jonas> oerjan: the original TAOCP advertises MIX with the tagline that it's "the world's first polyunsaturated computer", which is supposed to be a parody of margarine advertisments at that time,
16:43:29 <b_jonas> and that's a good guess, because even after 50 years, margarine is sometimes advertised by how it has unsaturated fats, which is healthy for your heart or something,
16:43:39 <b_jonas> except these days they also say it has trans fats.
16:44:08 <b_jonas> And the descriptions of MMIX by Knuth play on this.
16:44:48 <oerjan> i knew the fat meaning, but didn't understand it was a joke
16:45:36 <b_jonas> I don't know if there's a hidden meaning about computer architecture, I don't think there is
16:45:59 <oerjan> seems the xkcd forum is already all over the temperature/pressure mistake
16:46:42 <b_jonas> oerjan: wait, there's a second new xkcdwhatif? nobody told me
16:47:03 <oerjan> b_jonas: what did you think my makelist noise above was about :P
16:47:30 <oerjan> admittedly you weren't pinged by the original, because the list didn't exist yet
16:47:40 <HackEgo> xkcdwhatiflist 154: oerjan b_jonas
16:48:00 <int-e> oh, have whatifs gone irregular?
16:48:05 <Taneb> oerjan, can you add me to that list please
16:48:12 <oerjan> int-e: they have been irregular a long time
16:48:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: I did say `xkcdwhatiflist 153 back then. even if the program doesn't exist, someone might have set a watch/highlight on ^`xkcdwhatiflist in the channel directly
16:48:27 <b_jonas> int-e: had a really long hiatus
16:48:29 <int-e> I have not followed xkcdwhatif updates in a long time
16:48:35 <oerjan> `sled bin/xkcdwhatiflist//$aTaneb
16:48:37 <HackEgo> bin/xkcdwhatiflist//echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ oerjan \ b_jonas \ Taneb
16:48:45 <b_jonas> oerjan: so I assumed you made the list because of 153
16:48:48 <oerjan> i guess i shouldn't use that
16:48:57 <int-e> oerjan: isn't there some canned command for that?
16:49:06 <HackEgo> bin/addquote bin/addscowrevs bin/addtodo
16:49:13 <oerjan> int-e: i've forgotten if so :P
16:49:14 <HackEgo> bin/list bin/listen bin/listlist
16:49:32 <oerjan> i think people usually just use echo >>
16:49:43 <b_jonas> yeah, echo >>foolist is the usual method
16:49:45 <oerjan> i wanted to be clever but that pings
16:50:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: that: not found
16:51:02 <b_jonas> by the way, if you accept https://www.xkcd.com/397/ which says that Mythbusters is sloppy with its actual science, but still valuable because they teach the basic principle of experiments,
16:51:28 <b_jonas> then the logical conclusion is that xkcdwhatif is completely worthless, since it is sloppy with its actual science and doesn't do experiments at all
16:52:32 <Taneb> b_jonas, it creates excitement about science
16:52:53 <quintopia> its not worthless. it is a good basic primer in fermi estimation
16:53:04 <b_jonas> yeah, I know it's not worthless
16:53:37 <Taneb> quintopia, I believe 397 is correct but incomplete
16:53:47 <oerjan> b_jonas: i did indeed see your `xkcdwhatiflist 153. although i had already seen the whatif itself, since i usually check it on fridays.
16:53:49 <b_jonas> it's certainly much better than the unresearched fast media articles that http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174 describes,
16:53:56 <b_jonas> but that's what you'd think from xkcd 397
16:54:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: on fridays? but it used to be posted on wednesdays originally, when it was regular
16:54:59 <b_jonas> the main xkcd is sort of still regular: it is posted on almost every monday, wednesday, friday, but is often late
16:55:08 <Taneb> I still need to make the article about COMPLEX not a stub
16:55:21 <b_jonas> so it looks more like it's posted tuesday, thursday, saturday and backdated these days
16:55:27 <Taneb> Irregular Webcomic updated an hour late yesterday!
16:55:51 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, esowiki question:
16:56:15 <b_jonas> if I want to create an article for Knuth's MIX too, what should its title be, or what should the existing [[MIX]] get renamed?
16:56:56 <b_jonas> Taneb: but isn't Knuth's the one that deserves the unparenthisized title?
16:57:11 <quintopia> that is the way we usually handle this taneb
16:57:24 <Taneb> b_jonas, background information is less important than an actual esolang
16:57:27 <quintopia> b_jonas: both should be parenthesized
16:57:33 -!- digitalcold has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:57:51 <Taneb> Alternatively, merge it into the article on MMIX, and move that to MIX and MMIX
16:58:05 <quintopia> see e.g. Clue (Keymaker) and Clue (Oklopol)
16:58:17 <b_jonas> Taneb: I think MIX and MMIX are an actual esolang, since they are intended for purposes other than writing production programs in them
16:58:46 <oerjan> Taneb: did you notice that iwc (and also postcard) updated _twice_ on wednesday?
16:58:46 <b_jonas> as opposed to perl, which has a much uglier designed, but was always intended for real uses
16:59:03 <Taneb> b_jonas, then are Scratch and BASIC esolangs also, as they are designed for education like MMIX
16:59:07 <Taneb> oerjan, I did not!
16:59:14 <Taneb> oerjan, most irregular
16:59:30 <b_jonas> Taneb: I don't think merging MIX and MMIX would be a good idea, they're so different (that's why there was a need for a new system in first place)
16:59:40 <Taneb> That is a good point
16:59:49 <oerjan> b_jonas: i do it on fridays out of habit because when i checked it on wednesdays it was often too early
17:00:00 <b_jonas> Taneb: I think BASIC wasn't only intended for education, but because they could implement it in very small microcomputers with small RAM
17:00:26 <b_jonas> I don't know about Scratch or Logo stuff
17:00:59 <rdococ> wait, scratch _esolangs_?
17:01:35 <quintopia> oerjan: way inbon the wiki naming issue please
17:01:40 <b_jonas> oerjan: what? twice? no way
17:01:46 <rdococ> a (derivative of (a programming language designed to teach children how to program without the issues of syntax)) intentionally designed to be >esoteric<?
17:01:58 <rdococ> did I read that right?
17:02:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: wow indeed, it did post two reruns. I didn't notice
17:02:46 <b_jonas> I totally missed the first one
17:04:25 <oerjan> Taneb: fortunately, i obsessively always load the previous comic to check if i've missed one :P
17:05:01 <oerjan> (although that gets a bit intertwined with the separate new/rerun threads)
17:05:53 <b_jonas> oerjan: sometimes I do that, but I still think I missed some normal updates occasionally
17:06:47 <b_jonas> also, you'd think people would point out the double update on the forums
17:07:40 * b_jonas checks the alternate universe Darths & Droids strips -- no, they didn't also give an update to those to replace the missing update
17:08:13 -!- digitalcold has joined.
17:08:39 <oerjan> <b_jonas> I totally missed the first one <-- perhaps you should make the forum thread for it, others may have missed it too (unless someone did since last i looked)
17:09:55 <b_jonas> oerjan: so is the flame about temperature vs perssure about in 154 the phrase "ice isn't even stable at those low temperatures", or is it about the inaccuracies in 153 of the asymptotics when the hole is deep?
17:14:35 <oerjan> b_jonas: postcard also updated twice. i don't quite remember about sromg.
17:14:53 <oerjan> oh i think dinosaur whiteboard did too
17:15:08 <b_jonas> oerjan: I don't follow postcard, and I'm quite sure planet didn't double-post
17:15:32 <oerjan> yeah, the weekly ones didn't.
17:15:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: can you feedback about [[MIX]] naming?
17:15:53 <oerjan> i think knuth's MIX shouldn't get the main name.
17:16:36 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's not a flame, but it's the ice thing
17:16:46 <oerjan> (i haven't checked the other thread)
17:16:49 <b_jonas> oerjan: ok, what then? [[MIX]] disambig page?
17:17:19 <b_jonas> ([[x86]], [[GHC]], [[GCC]] have a non-eso and an eso meaning, that's different)
17:19:14 <oerjan> i'm not very firm on whether to use disambig page or hatnote.
17:21:28 <b_jonas> I should try to do slippery slope on this, by making a new esoteric language named Intercal, refuse to call it any other name, and demand that it gets the [[Intercal]] title because it's clearly more esoteric than Intercal
17:22:36 <b_jonas> oh, I should do it with Brainfuck instead
17:32:38 <rdococ> just don't make it a derivative
17:37:29 <b_jonas> of course not. that would defeat the point
17:38:16 <b_jonas> I hate the brainfuck derivatives, and there's an idea for an esolang I had wanted to make for a while, but the most elegant way I could make it is to make it a brainfuck variant, and I don't want that.
17:38:41 <zzo38> I think a disambiguation page could be good idea
17:38:45 <b_jonas> I should probably just make it an underload variant.
17:40:11 <oerjan> b_jonas: pretty sure you posted that in the wrong thread hth
17:40:19 <zzo38> I alto think that on the article for MMIX they should also be added the list of the instruction set.
17:40:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
17:40:48 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah. there wasn't a suitable one
17:41:15 <b_jonas> oerjan: it's a feature, not a bug
17:41:36 <b_jonas> also, posts in the Bugs thread tend to get deleted when DMM fixes the bug
17:41:45 -!- Cale has joined.
17:41:54 <zzo38> If you want to make a new esoteric language named Intercal that gets the [[Intercal]] title, I think that should be fine as long as it also contains a link at the top to [[INTERCAL]] in case that is what you were looking for instead.
17:42:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't understand what you say about MMIX and instruction set
17:42:37 <zzo38> b_jonas: I mean the table of the instructions should be included.
17:43:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:43:15 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:43:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: I could add one but why?
17:44:28 <zzo38> To have more completion.
17:45:01 <b_jonas> at some point we should synchronize http://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Languages , there are languages on one but not the other both ways, plus we should use the other categories to find all languages that are on neither
17:47:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: feel free to edit the article if you want such a table
17:55:10 <HackEgo> cat: bin/```: No such file or directory
17:55:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
17:55:40 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
17:55:45 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48StcaCMtsg
17:56:00 <shachaf> `mkx bin/13//\` "$@" |& rot13
17:58:16 <HackEgo> cat: bin/commandlist: No such file or directory
17:59:00 <zzo38> I also think that implementation of Checkout for use with GPU should be made up and that standard names for exponents and trigonometry should also be added.
17:59:09 <HackEgo> /unpxrai/ova/`: yvar 4: 10: pbzznaq abg sbhaq
18:00:52 <\oren\> hehe the eror mesage was rot13d
18:00:55 <zzo38> And then to hope to be able to use it instead of ARB assembly and GLSL and so on.
18:01:38 <\oren\> i think the first step to speling reform should be to eliminate useles duplicate leters
18:02:53 <oerjan> it's really quite amazing how close rot13 gets to a hypothetically pronounceable language given it preserves no vowels
18:02:58 <zzo38> A preprocessor for Checkout will be needed in order to do it.
18:04:32 <zzo38> I would think that it would also mean you do not need a separate vertex program and fragment program, and perhaps some other stuff in OpenGL also then you won't need anymore.
18:04:42 <b_jonas> Obfuscated programming questions. You know how buddy-blocked (twin) memory allocator pool work, right? All allocated and free blocks are aligned power of two gross sized, free blocks of each size are listed, two free slots get combined if they are the same size and would form an aligned block of one larger size,
18:05:09 <b_jonas> allocation tries to get a block from the free list of the right size, if that fails, allocates a block one larger and frees half of it.
18:05:23 <b_jonas> Questoin: is there a fibonacci (rather than binary) version of this?
18:05:31 <b_jonas> How hard would it be to implement one?
18:06:25 <quintopia> ive never heard of it, but ive implemented something roughly ewuivalent
18:06:32 <zzo38> b_jonas: I don't know
18:06:53 <b_jonas> quintopia: um, you've implemented the binary or the fibonacci one?
18:07:08 <b_jonas> many people know about the binary from Knuth's book
18:07:13 <\oren\> I once tried to make a fibonacci heapsort but i failed for some reason I can't recall
18:07:17 <b_jonas> but it's not very popular for some reason
18:07:56 <quintopia> ive implemented a discrete fibonacci search, which involves dividing a range of integers into blocks of fibonacci size
18:08:00 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:08:10 <b_jonas> \oren\: that might make sense, since there are quaternary heaps that are like binary heaps but with four children, and you could have ternary heaps and ternary triplet-buddy-block allocators.
18:08:20 <quintopia> transforming it into an allocation scheme seems not too difficult
18:08:44 <b_jonas> quintopia: I think it would involve the Zeckendorf representation of the addresses
18:09:14 <quintopia> that would certainly speed up indexing
18:09:37 <b_jonas> if you want speed, just use the binary version
18:09:48 <b_jonas> the fibonacci version isn't really better
18:10:41 <quintopia> im comparing to fibonacci without zeckendorf
18:12:30 <b_jonas> Other question. You know the xor-coded list trick, right? Take a cyclic doubly linked list, but have nodes store only one pointer, whose value is the xor of the addresses of the previous and next nodes. List head and other iterators have two pointers to adjacent nodes.
18:12:49 <b_jonas> That can work for trees rather than lists too: there, iterators have to store the parent.
18:13:57 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:14:25 <b_jonas> So my question is, can xor-coding be used to make a garbage collector that avoids having to store a long stack of pointers when it marks a deep list of nodes? If such a gc is possible, then what properties of the gc is it compatible with? (Stop the world vs incremental, generational moving vs stationary, etc.)
18:15:31 <b_jonas> These are both eso in that even if they're possible, they're stupid tricks that won't be worth the debugging in the end when something goes wrong.
18:17:25 <\oren\> You know, it would be nice to have a version of qsort() that rather than taking a comparator function, takes a offset to a sort key
18:20:10 <\oren\> that way you wouldn't have to make a separate function for each struct that needs sorting
18:21:11 <\oren\> it would just be keysort(A,&A[0].key-&A[0],N); or smething
18:21:21 <b_jonas> \oren\: how would it know the type of the comparator key?
18:21:26 <b_jonas> also, use offsetof for that
18:21:54 <\oren\> b_jonas: maybe there would need to be different ones
18:22:19 <\oren\> keysort, keysortl, keysortll, keysortf, keysortd etc
18:22:40 <b_jonas> \oren\: one for each type of key. especially for little-endian architectures if you prefer to have the more significant sort key at the lower offset but the more significant byte within it at the higher offset.
18:22:58 -!- Cale has joined.
18:23:35 <\oren\> either that or some sort of configuration paramater
18:24:28 <b_jonas> hmm, like a 64-byte shuffle key? could work
18:25:56 <b_jonas> shuffle key as in, for each of the 64 bytes of space in the real conceptual little-endian key, the shuffle key has a byte that is either 0..63 to tell which of the 64 bytes starting from the key offset you take, or 255 to mean that byte of the real key is zero.
18:26:13 <b_jonas> (and in that case, the key offset might be fixed to zero)
18:26:34 <b_jonas> though that wouldn't solve sorting by float keys, which is a real need
18:27:05 <\oren\> yeah, I was mostly thinking of the case where there's only one key and it's of a common C type
18:27:22 <b_jonas> float is a common C type, right?
18:27:30 <b_jonas> yeah, you mentioned keysortf
18:28:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:28:37 <\oren\> b_jonas: right. so you would just have keysortf(char *A,size_t off,size_t member_len,size_t array_len);
18:30:52 <\oren\> it basically seems like a waste to have all these calls to somestruct_compare(struct some *a,struct some *b){return a.key - b.key;}
18:31:39 <\oren\> which might be optimized out, but even so, why have the function at all
18:35:41 <oerjan> it's all a mess just because C doesn't have proper closures hth
18:39:45 <\oren\> oerjan: C is low-level and I like it that way
18:41:53 -!- augur has joined.
18:42:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:42:23 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:46:42 <b_jonas> TAOCP has a special place in my heart, not only because it's a good book, but because I think it was a large part of what got me interested in programming when I was young
18:46:55 <b_jonas> it's hard to tell how much effect it really had, but it certainly mattered
18:47:37 <b_jonas> I wonder what sort of celebrating party we should organize when the final and glorious edition of volume 3 is published.
18:48:21 <b_jonas> (yes, obviously those aren't independent. TAOCP had a big effect on me as a child BECAUSE it's a good book. it was the most interesting book in the entire school library.)
18:51:58 -!- augur has joined.
18:52:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:03:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:05:40 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:05:59 -!- krok_ has joined.
19:08:43 <b_jonas> Is there a betting pool somewhere for how many subvolumes volume 4 will have?
19:13:00 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:14:22 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:16:09 -!- idris-bot has joined.
19:17:45 <b_jonas> Oh, and question about MMIX. Is "the infamous MMIX register shuffle" an old name? Or is it still used?
19:18:06 <b_jonas> I wasn't sure when I wrote the article.
19:18:15 <b_jonas> Also, how large is the physical memory space?
19:22:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:31:09 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:31:30 -!- puckipedia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:32:12 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:33:08 -!- puckipedia has joined.
19:37:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:50:00 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:51:09 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:00:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50897&oldid=50870 * Boxalert * (+192)
20:01:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ternary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50898 * Boxalert * (+1348) Created page with "'''Ternary''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[zerosum0x0]] in 2015. It consists only of the ASCII characters 0, 1, and 2. It is a member of the TrivialB..."
20:02:55 <rdococ> what's the use of a brainfuck substitution?
20:04:26 <rdococ> TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution("asdasd","ddas","dddd","asdad","saa","calaa","saddas","dsadas") and I have just created another "esolang"
20:07:24 <myname> it's basically a less funny version of ook
20:09:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50899&oldid=43462 * Rdococ * (+436) /* I deleted the count. */
20:21:41 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:21:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:22:16 -!- augur has joined.
20:22:45 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:23:08 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:26:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:33:27 -!- LKoen has joined.
20:55:35 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
21:14:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BitCycle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50900 * Dlosc * (+6800) Creating BitCycle page
21:16:05 <zzo38> Currently in my program SDLTERM the only support for text is 8x8 PC character set, but I should later also add support for font upload with custom variable-pitch bitmap fonts, with 16-bit characters and ligatures and kerning. (The ligature capability can be used for such thing as "fi" ligature, but can also be used for making Unicode fonts, by ligaturing together the surrogate pairs.)
21:16:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50901&oldid=50896 * Dlosc * (+15) Added BitCycle
21:16:30 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:17:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ouroboros]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50902&oldid=49895 * Dlosc * (+100)
21:20:00 <zzo38> Therefore, it can be useful if you want to do such thing as displaying Japanese texts, and can possibly even write in Arabic.
21:25:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:26:44 <zzo38> (It isn't limited to Unicode, either; in fact it does not even do Unicode, but it can be implemented by use of ligatures.)
21:31:18 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:32:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Dlosc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50903 * Dlosc * (+398) Created page with "I am a hobbyist programmer who was introduced to esolangs through [http://codegolf.stackexchange.com PPCG StackExchange]. My esolangs include: * [[Pip]]: a fairly sane code-g..."
21:38:40 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:47:52 <\oren\> Maybe I should just go to germany
21:51:21 <\oren\> if I went to germany I would be able to respond to these 2 AM emails
21:56:13 <\oren\> well I mean either they're in poland or germant
22:06:14 -!- augur has joined.
22:10:30 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:29:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:45:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:50:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:05:00 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:05:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
23:09:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:09:40 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
23:10:01 <wob_jonas> oerjan: who, new twist. in http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?p=161792#161792 , DMM says the double update was an accidental bug
23:28:47 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:37:40 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:41:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's not a twist if it's what you expect hth
23:41:53 -!- kiki` has joined.
23:43:58 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas it's not a twist if it's what you expect hth
23:46:37 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:50:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:52:27 <oerjan> well they might not have let you back in. i hear that's all the rage.
23:53:01 <fizzie> I haven't been out lately.
23:53:23 <fizzie> One of our meeting rooms is called "court", I was tempted to book a meeting there so I could've said to someone SEE YOU IN COURT.
23:53:55 <oerjan> chances that you're the first to do so are ...
23:54:21 <fizzie> All the rooms on the third floor are named after "things that sound strange in the sentence '(we have a meeting) in X'", like court, hell, denial, sane, jail, "my office", "your office" and so on.
23:54:42 <fizzie> The two offices are particularly hard to find, it isn't rare to find someone asking "where's my office?"
23:55:07 * oerjan swats fizzie on principle -----###
23:57:17 <oerjan> . o O ( five minutes, the pub )
23:57:17 <shachaf> Ah, public Google Maps doesn't show individual room names there.
23:57:21 <shachaf> It does for some buildings in MTV.
23:58:10 <fizzie> shachaf: It does for UK-LON-BEL as well.
23:58:24 <fizzie> shachaf: It just opened last year, probably no-one just thought of doing it.
23:59:27 <shachaf> Your meeting room naming scheme sounds much better than any of the buildings I was in.
23:59:52 <fizzie> There's nothing that funny about BEL meeting rooms, though, they're just famous computer scientists (3rd floor) or actual old computers (4th floor).
00:00:16 <fizzie> 6PS has a different theme every floor, there was a poll for suggestions.
00:00:23 <shachaf> Do you have cafeterias named after command line tools?
00:00:38 <fizzie> Unfortunately people didn't like the Culture ship names, I thought that would've been nice. :/
00:01:02 <fizzie> Cafeteria names are pretty random. In 6PS we have La Place, Labyrinth and The Fold.
00:02:48 <fizzie> There's a David Bowie theme for the big semi-external tech talk spaces -- there's at least Major Tom, Aladdin Sane, Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust.
00:03:12 <shachaf> But for example you don't have anything like "blaze menu" (citation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9257554 )
00:04:07 <fizzie> No. I've been to Blaze though.
00:05:19 <shachaf> I can't remember whether there are any others.
00:06:18 <fizzie> I've been to the building but not sure about the cafe.
00:07:04 <fizzie> I think. I'm not sure I've got these numbers right.
00:07:14 <fizzie> You should have names.
00:08:04 <fizzie> Yeah, rather than just "building 40" and so on.
00:11:00 -!- augur has joined.
00:11:32 <shachaf> I think building 40 was inherited from SGI.
00:12:32 <shachaf> Which is at 2000 Charleston Rd.
00:12:37 <shachaf> So at least it's somewhat justified?
00:12:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:20:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:21:09 <fizzie> I'm not sure I'm too down with those street addresses either.
00:21:13 <fizzie> They seem pretty arbitrary.
00:21:35 <fizzie> I mean, there should be 49 buildings between each of 1900, 1950 and 2000.
00:21:58 <shachaf> No, the system numbers buildings by distance.
00:22:15 <shachaf> So you don't end up with build 53A etc.
00:22:40 <fizzie> Oh, I didn't know that.
00:23:17 <fizzie> I guess that's reasonable.
00:23:35 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:23:40 <fizzie> Although the choice of whether to use the street number or some other number seems pretty arbitrary.
00:23:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
00:24:28 <shachaf> fizzie: One thing that always annoyed me a bit is that there's no way to have an https link for something that's not at any TLD.
00:24:52 <fizzie> I'm also pretty sure 1200 Charleston Road and 1201 Charleston Road are more than 1 unit of distance from each other.
00:25:19 <fizzie> And that annoys me as well. People seem to just make them http links.
00:25:35 <shachaf> Of course they always redirect to https links.
00:25:51 <shachaf> But they might not redirect.
00:26:07 <shachaf> Or they might leak the address to someone before they redirect.
00:26:44 <shachaf> fizzie: Odd numbers on one side, even numbers on the other.
00:27:17 <fizzie> I typically try to make it a https://thing.domain.tld/foo link with "thing/foo" as the visible part, if it's a thing where ^k can do a link where what's shown is different from what it links to.
00:27:33 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_numbering#North_America
00:29:26 <shachaf> fizzie: I bet you're one of a very small number of people who do that.
00:30:00 <fizzie> Have to admit 6 Pancras Square is pretty arbitrary as well. It's a triangle-shaped block of office buildings, numbered counterclockwise starting from south 1-7.
00:31:03 <shachaf> Maybe you should put everything at a custom TLD.
00:31:08 <fizzie> And nobody seems to agree whether it's "Pancras Road" or "Pancras Square".
00:31:14 <shachaf> According to the NSA newsletter, they put things at .nsa
00:33:45 <shachaf> https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologs/assets/files/cryptolog_136.pdf
00:33:57 <shachaf> I suppose that was 20 years ago, so who knows.
00:35:52 <fizzie> I remember some place doing that, but I can't think of what it could've been, since I haven't worked at that many places.
00:45:27 -!- cyanidechef has joined.
00:46:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:51:02 <fizzie> With the ICANN "New gTLD" project, it seems like it would be hard to have a local domain that won't suddenly become non-local.
00:51:10 <shachaf> http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/quickfix/1/8/7/188187.jpg
00:51:39 <shachaf> fizzie: Yes, I was wondering about that.
00:52:46 <fizzie> We've got that .google, but I don't think there's much on it.
00:53:00 <fizzie> There's https://www.registry.google/ but that's not much.
00:53:11 -!- cyanidechef has left.
00:53:16 <shachaf> On the other hand com.google finally works.
00:53:25 <shachaf> For all the Java developers.
00:53:54 <fizzie> Or they can do "package google.com" now.
00:54:36 <fizzie> Is the com.google thing still backwards? If I go there, I just get redirected to google.co.uk, but that might be because no-one thought of the country redirect.
00:55:00 <shachaf> It redirects to www.google.com for me.
00:55:09 <shachaf> domains.google also works, which I suppose makes sense.
00:55:11 <fizzie> Right, then it's not just me.
00:55:36 <shachaf> You should start putting everything at [redacted].google now.
00:56:02 <shachaf> Rather than [redacted].google.com
00:56:18 <fizzie> Hey, what? Does domains.google *actually* work for me now?
00:56:26 <fizzie> Previously it was all about not being available in my country.
00:56:35 <fizzie> But I think I got the complaint much earlier in the process.
00:57:02 <fizzie> No, the help thing still says: "Google Domains is currently available only for users in the US."
00:57:22 <fizzie> But it was letting me add things to cart and all.
00:57:56 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:59:22 <shachaf> https://domains.google.com/registrar?s=fizzie#st=a
00:59:47 <fizzie> There's a "Billing / Legal Country" dropdown that has United States, United Kingdom and Canada.
00:59:50 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:00:58 <shachaf> Sounds like those might be some top-secret international domains features you're unwittingly leaking.
01:01:13 <shachaf> But if that's the case they should be labeling them clearly in the UI.
01:02:10 <fizzie> I'm logged in with my personal gmail.com account, and using my home computer and my personal internet connection.
01:02:19 <fizzie> So if I'm leaking something, it's been pretty much leaked already.
01:03:21 <shachaf> Must be part of the BeyondCorp effort.
01:04:03 <shachaf> @@ (@google BeyondCorp) (@eval citation)
01:04:04 <lambdabot> https://research.google.com/pubs/pub43231.html
01:05:18 <fizzie> The next level of BeyondCorp.
01:05:35 <fizzie> You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
01:07:12 <fizzie> I was in Ireland for a vacation a while back, and had booked a day bus trip, and it turned out one other person (of the about 20 or so on the tour) was a Googler from MTV working on BeyondCorp.
01:11:00 <shachaf> Recently I enabled 2-step verification for my Google account.
01:11:57 <shachaf> But I was worried about the case where I'm traveling, and my computer, phone, and wallet all get stolen.
01:12:05 <shachaf> And I need to access my Google account.
01:12:09 <shachaf> What do you think I should do?
01:13:33 -!- augur has joined.
01:14:35 <shachaf> What I decided to do was memorize two backup codes.
01:14:46 <shachaf> I made a monthly calendar appointment to make sure that I still remember them.
01:15:15 <fizzie> You could implant a Yubikey.
01:16:00 <shachaf> They don't make compact type-C Yubikeys yet, I think.
01:16:10 <shachaf> Once they do that it could be a reasonable solution.
01:16:32 <shachaf> Since USB type C is forever.
01:18:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:18:07 <fizzie> The latest Lenovo Carbon X1 rehash has USB type C for power, I think.
01:18:29 <shachaf> I think my Dell XPS 15 also supports that.
01:18:39 <shachaf> But I don't have anything that can charge it.
01:18:49 <shachaf> I could try the official Apple adapter next time I'm near an Apple store.
01:19:38 <shachaf> The standard allows up to 100W.
01:19:48 <fizzie> "-- two Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C ports alongside two classic USB-A ports. And the X1 Carbon charges via USB-C too --"
01:20:25 <shachaf> My laptop is my only computer, so I prefer it to be a high-end computer.
01:20:34 <fizzie> If it comes with a charger, maybe I can charge my phones with it REAL FAST.
01:21:07 <fizzie> Presumably it's gotta lotta watts.
01:21:46 <fizzie> I thought we were all supposed to be using those supercapacitors already anyway.
01:23:04 <fizzie> And the superconductors.
01:25:43 <shachaf> Google sells https://store.google.com/product/universal_type_c_60w_charger
01:26:44 <shachaf> We're so far in the future that I can plug my phone into my computer and choose to charge my computer from my phone.
01:26:53 <shachaf> Of course nothing seems to happen when I do that.
01:26:57 -!- augur has joined.
01:27:19 <shachaf> Maybe I should plug two phones into each other.
01:27:20 <fizzie> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/4X20E75131/460/B5F03F2D7A74472998C11037ACE71BFB has only three quarters of the watts.
01:27:43 <shachaf> http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MNF82LL/A/87w-usb-c-power-adapter is where it's at
01:27:50 <shachaf> Except Apple apparently rates it at 3/5 stars.
01:30:10 <shachaf> The standard allows for 100W but I can't find a single 100W charger for sale.
01:34:11 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
02:00:26 <zzo38> Do you know why it seem that with OpenGL, the textures with only one or two channel is not working properly?
02:02:07 <zzo38> When it is only red, the data reads back entirely black. When it is red and green, the red channel reads properly but the green channel you will read back the same data as the red channel, instead of the data put into the green channel.
02:20:45 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:33:00 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
02:33:28 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Sat Feb 11 02:33:28 2017
03:00:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
03:09:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50904&oldid=50894 * Hsorenson * (+258)
03:10:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50905&oldid=50904 * Hsorenson * (-3)
03:11:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50906&oldid=50905 * Hsorenson * (+109)
03:15:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alexander-liao * New user account
03:16:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50907&oldid=50906 * Hsorenson * (+1) /* User Input */
03:21:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50908&oldid=50897 * Alexander-liao * (+262)
03:22:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Billiards]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50909 * Alexander-liao * (+503) First Commit
03:44:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50910&oldid=50907 * Hsorenson * (+25)
03:55:28 <zzo38> Another way to make a poker game can be, each player gets one rebuy, but it is free, and it doesn't expire. There is no other rebuy allowed.
04:12:45 -!- Akaibu has joined.
04:16:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
04:24:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50911&oldid=50910 * Hsorenson * (+222)
04:27:47 <zzo38> Another variant can be involving a few of the features of One Poker. (Do you know how to do One Poker?)
04:37:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50912&oldid=50911 * Hsorenson * (-8)
04:41:30 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:25:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
05:42:46 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:42:50 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:51:38 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:47:50 <shachaf> copumpkin: Can you believe people still do things like "apt-get install" and "apt-get remove" to configure what's installed on their system?
06:49:56 <zzo38> I have not have problem with doing that, although sometimes it can help to use the interactive mode.
06:50:26 <shachaf> What it should be is that you edit a file or something that describes what configuration you want your system to be in.
06:50:38 <shachaf> Then you run one command and it puts your system in the desired state.
06:50:56 <shachaf> Nix does that, more or less. But it also does a lot of other things.
06:53:03 <zzo38> I have actually thought of something similar too, where you can set which packages the system root package depends on, and then those ones are going to be installed, but also involved many other things in this my idea too.
07:35:27 <zzo38> What do you think of it?
07:48:24 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
07:48:51 -!- Jafet has joined.
08:10:02 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/7pDd67x.gif
08:12:45 <zzo38> What are you posting it for?
08:14:42 <zzo38> But, perhaps you should explain it? I can see it is a Go game, but that is about all, which is why I ask.
08:27:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:37:38 -!- MoALTz has joined.
09:15:50 <izabera> after e3, if white doesn't answer black can capture f3-f2 and g1-h1-h2
09:16:11 <izabera> so white answers in e2, threatening to capture e3
09:16:28 <izabera> e3 runs away in d3, now e3-d3 has 3 liberties
09:16:55 <izabera> white takes away one with d2, threatening to capture soon
09:17:12 <izabera> now g1-h1-h2 has 2 liberties, f1 takes away one
09:17:37 <izabera> white saves the three stones by capturing f1 with e1
09:17:53 <izabera> h3 brings g1-h1-h2 down to one liberty again
09:18:14 -!- augur has joined.
09:18:20 <izabera> if white fills in and connect at f1, the whole group has only two liberties in d1 and c2
09:18:43 <izabera> and black will do c2 next and kill the whole thing
09:25:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:13:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
10:39:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:03:54 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:03:56 -!- tromp has joined.
11:23:37 -!- impomatic_ has joined.
11:36:50 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:12:39 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:20:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:27:25 -!- idris-bot has joined.
12:35:41 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:43:07 -!- boily has joined.
12:51:19 <HackEgo> pokemon//A pokemon is a monster that you keep in your pocket. Taneb invented them.
12:51:34 <boily> TAAAANEEEEBMOOOON ♪♪♪
13:00:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:17:45 <HackEgo> alphabet//Alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google.
13:17:47 -!- furozo has joined.
13:18:56 <boily> rdochelloc. Taneb doesn't invent anything that has been invented. he is powerful enough as he is.
13:19:01 <HackEgo> ocean//The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping.
13:20:24 <rdococ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfluous_man oh, so like teenagers
13:20:59 <rdococ> boily, I still don't get it
13:21:02 <HackEgo> rho//Rho is the Greek letter that represents the mind, and thus psychology is called rho science. Today's reductionists consider the mind obsolete, and prefer to study new rho science.
13:24:03 -!- mroman has joined.
13:28:06 <HackEgo> dynamic-unwind//dynamic-unwind is just like dynamic-wind except that it's a different sort of weather.
13:38:44 -!- myname has joined.
14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:10:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Billiards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50913&oldid=50909 * Alexander-liao * (+3745) Added in specs
14:17:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
14:45:35 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
15:05:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:08:15 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:22:11 <mroman> http://codepad.org/440emx8m <- blsq got a fancy mode
15:22:46 <mroman> of course - it's implemented in the most hackish blsq way
15:22:56 <mroman> scopes reside on the regular secondary stack
15:43:44 <boily> hellorcah! effectivemahjong demain!
16:06:44 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH WHY MUST EXCEL FUNCTIONS BE TRANSLATED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
16:07:16 <int-e> uh, are they still doing that?
16:08:06 <int-e> (I would hope that at least the english variants always work, but perhaps I'm hoping for too much. This is Microsoft's Office department we're talking about.)
16:08:51 <oerjan> presumably they're stored internally in an independent format...
16:10:38 <boily> using LibreOffice Calc in French, and English functions do not work.
16:11:08 * boily marmonne quelques explétifs bien choisis
16:11:37 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
16:13:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:14:30 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:33:03 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:37:36 -!- furozo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:39:10 <mroman> that's the dumbest design decision in Calc.
16:41:03 -!- furozo has joined.
16:46:03 -!- furozo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
16:51:15 <zzo38> I think that can cause various problem and they shouldn't do like that. Maybe you can file a bug report or to fix it yourself? The functions should always be American regardless of the language of the menus and documentation and the rest of the GUI, in my opinion.
16:52:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Betaload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50914&oldid=50581 * Challenger5 * (-50)
16:57:20 -!- myname has left.
16:57:38 -!- myname has joined.
17:25:19 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:27:16 <boily> time to test a soup.
17:27:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ELVISH CHICKEN).
17:29:47 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
17:56:08 <\oren\> xubuntu comes with gnumeric and abiwrod
17:58:19 <\oren\> of course, really I would prefer a terminal-based spreadsheet
17:59:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
18:00:53 <\oren\> and maybe also a terminal-based rich text editor
18:01:14 <myname> there arenterminal based soreadsheets
18:02:13 <myname> iirc there even is a 3d spreadsheet software for the terminal
18:02:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:03:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:05:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:06:21 <\oren\> Hmm, actually, first I want to write a better text editor
18:06:33 <myname> kakoune is interesting
18:08:31 <\oren\> I would find it interesting if I was into the whole modal interface thing
18:09:43 <\oren\> because I prefer to have things like save, copy etc on function keys
18:10:11 <\oren\> I have F1-F12 on my keyboard, all of those should do useful things
18:10:42 <myname> just define it as that
18:11:31 <myname> at least in vim it should be fairly easy to map f1 to something like "go to normal mode, :w, go back to whatever mode previously was used"
18:22:31 <\oren\> putting some function into a mode other than insert, to me, is like hiding it in a menu
18:22:58 <\oren\> the most important functions should all be accessible seamlessly from the insert mode
18:23:54 <myname> i disagree, i am only in insert mode if i actually want to insert something
18:24:10 -!- augur has joined.
18:24:12 <myname> limit myself to that is bogus
18:24:25 <\oren\> but myname, insertign things is the most common operation
18:30:06 <\oren\> i suppose there's also appending things and deleting things
18:30:29 <\oren\> all of which is done from insert mode
18:44:08 <myname> deleting things is not done from insert mode
18:50:02 <L3viathan> you _can_ do everything from insert mode, but then why use vim at all
18:50:20 <L3viathan> The idea is that you spend as much time as possible outside of insert mode
18:52:03 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:52:15 <L3viathan> 't even need to exit insert mode to save with a mapping; inoremap <F1> <c-o>:w<cr>
18:55:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:56:24 <\oren\> I use alt-: to go to ed mode
18:57:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:06:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:07:13 -!- krok_ has joined.
19:11:03 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:28:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:30:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Qookie * New user account
19:42:22 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:51:00 <rdococ> is there a Logisim for quantum computing?
19:51:17 <rdococ> a simple visualization sandbox would be very helpful. I learn best by experimenting.
20:09:35 <mroman> zzo38: that won't work.
20:09:50 <mroman> so french office people don't want to input formulas in english.
20:10:17 <mroman> but you should just store it as english or number and then translate for display
20:27:58 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
20:33:42 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:34:41 <wob_jonas> Re spreadsheets: translated function names is bad, yes, but it's not the worst part.
20:35:12 <wob_jonas> I'm more bothered by the convenience functions present in Excel but not in LibreOfice
20:35:44 <wob_jonas> like R1C1 addressing (or S1O1 addressing in translated version), double-clicking on cell boundary or control-arrow to go to the next cell with a different filled/unfilled status,
20:35:53 <wob_jonas> scroll lock to scroll the window, etc.
20:35:58 <myname> the funniest point of translated functions are translated argument separators
20:36:31 <wob_jonas> semicolon for argument separator, backslash for concatenation
20:36:35 <myname> like, in english you do foo(bar,baz), in german you do foo(bar;baz)
20:36:54 <myname> even IF they have the same name, they just break by that
20:37:15 <wob_jonas> But these days you can just use the English version.
20:37:42 <wob_jonas> It's not like twenty years ago when you had Hungarian Excel installer on five floppies or something, and that's it, you're stuck with that language.
21:01:53 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
21:22:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:47:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
21:53:14 -!- furozo has joined.
22:02:20 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:03:39 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:11:23 -!- boily has joined.
22:11:38 <HackEgo> kulør//Kulør er rett stavemåte.
22:18:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50915&oldid=50282 * Hsorenson * (+426) Added Drift interpreter example.
22:20:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50916&oldid=50912 * Hsorenson * (+150)
23:30:29 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
23:51:23 <boily> “The aromaticity of arsoles has been debated for many years.”
00:08:57 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
00:11:39 <boily> oh. hm. eh. I may have hit the trunk branch by accident. darn.
00:19:51 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:21:37 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:31:51 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:41:06 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:51:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50917&oldid=50908 * Oerjan * (+57) /* Introductions */ Fnord
00:56:18 <boily> Hi all, I'm boily, and I'm a sane person.
00:56:59 <oerjan> Hi boily. I'm oerjan, and I stopped pretending to be sane long ago.
00:57:16 <shachaf> oerjan: what did you think about that text file i linked the other day hth
00:57:53 <oerjan> pretty sure i didn't see that.
00:59:30 <oerjan> i was just finding that
00:59:50 <oerjan> i remembered it had something like sb or the like
01:01:43 -!- augur has joined.
01:01:51 <oerjan> i guess i do present myself as safe.
01:02:30 <oerjan> perhaps pathologically so.
01:02:55 <shachaf> see also -intelligence, -being-a-teacher, -psychotic-girl, etc.
01:03:14 -!- riggs has joined.
01:04:20 <HackEgo> riggs: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:04:58 <riggs> I thought this might be a place for masons
01:05:39 <boily> We do not talk about passion fruits like Roald Dahl.
01:05:44 <riggs> naw, more like manley p hall
01:08:57 <HackEgo> Royal Dahl is the king of Norway.
01:09:06 <shachaf> royal dahl invented royal jelly, right?
01:09:13 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Jelly_(short_story)
01:10:11 <boily> apricot jelly is the best.
01:10:17 <HackEgo> king of norway? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:10:27 <HackEgo> 6544:2016-01-11 <shachäf> le/rn dahl/Royal Dahl is the king of Norway. \ 6542:2016-01-11 <shachäf> le/rn dahl/Royal Dahl is the king of Norway. \ 3139:2013-06-16 <Phantom_Hoovër> learn dahl dih dahl dahl
01:11:20 <oerjan> it was so important it had to be added twice.
01:11:45 <HackEgo> 6543:2016-01-11 <shachäf> mkx bin/slashlearn//sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "wisdom/$key"; echo "Learned \xc2\xab$key\xc2\xbb"
01:11:48 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
01:11:59 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
01:12:11 -!- riggs has left ("Leaving").
01:12:18 <boily> we still have our royal couple reigning over this chännel.
01:12:56 <boily> triple? unless you are counting Norway.
01:13:19 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 6542,6544 wisdom/'royal dahl'
01:13:20 <HackEgo> hg: parse error: can't use a list in this context
01:13:29 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 6542 wisdom/'royal dahl'
01:13:30 <HackEgo> wisdom/royal dahl: no such file in rev f96c3ec3cd15
01:13:41 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 6544 wisdom/'royal dahl'
01:13:42 <HackEgo> wisdom/royal dahl: no such file in rev 24299ed00557
01:13:57 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 6544 wisdom/dahl
01:13:58 <HackEgo> Royal Dahl is the king of Norway.
01:14:02 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 6542 wisdom/dahl
01:14:32 <HackEgo> boily:“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring. \ bo
01:14:51 <HackEgo> dahl:Royal Dahl is the king of Norway. \ elendil:Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron. \ fizzie:fizzi
01:15:06 <HackEgo> 2/5:\ fizzie:fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg \ frenemy:Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and king Dee Dee. \ it:It little profits that an idle king, / By this still hearth, among these barren crags, / Match'd with an aged wife, I
01:15:14 <HackEgo> 3/5:mete and dole / Unequal laws unto a savage race, / That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. / I cannot rest from travel: I will drink / Life to the lees; all times I have enjoy'd / Greatly, have suffer'd greatly, both with those / That loved me, and alone; on shore, and when / Thro' scudding drifts the rainy Hyades / Vext the
01:15:23 <HackEgo> 4/5: dim sea: I am become a name; / For always roaming with a hungry heart / Much have I seen and known; cities of men / And manners, climates, councils, governments, / Myself not least, but honour'd of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy, / I am a part of all that I have met; /
01:15:27 <HackEgo> shachäf b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs
01:15:33 <HackEgo> 5/5: Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' / Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades / For ever and for ever when I move.
01:15:37 <HackEgo> 8403:2016-06-08 <shachäf> sled wisdom/it//s\\ $\\\\ \ 8397:2016-06-07 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. " \ 7481:2016-04-18 <b_jonäs> `` sed -i "s#governments.*#governments, / Myself not least, but honour\'d of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy, / I am a part of
01:17:21 <HackEgo> 1/1:shachaf:Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. \ victoria:Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest.
01:17:34 <shachaf> looks like there's plenty of royalty to go around
01:18:06 <HackEgo> 1/1:shakespeare:And besicue and a saint and son the may bean the butcious and one them bear and may me for here the mance of my lord, and leave and thou arl of the prince and will not and and hour blood and the be buralont;
01:18:38 <oerjan> `1 grwp -i '\bemp[ei]'
01:18:40 <HackEgo> 1/6:atrocity:Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire. \ coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ damnation:The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no longer held and they got flooded. \ elendil:Elendil's dad, Am
01:19:03 <oerjan> `1 grwp -l -i '\bemp[ei]'
01:19:20 <HackEgo> 1/1:atrocity \ coruscant \ damnation \ elendil \ iron general \ ostrich \ procrasti \ trantor \ turkey \ vim
01:19:45 <HackEgo> vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
01:21:14 <HackEgo> The Iron General is Siona Patricia pa-Lehyll pa-Drusia Ishgur-Sal, Lady of Tyren, sometime general in His Majesty's army, dame of the Empire, and senator of Tuqnil, in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2003-12-04.0383.html
01:22:31 -!- FiveBroDeepBook has joined.
01:22:31 -!- FiveBroDeepBook has left.
01:25:57 <oerjan> `learn Vulture is like Culture, but far less picky about the food.
01:25:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'vulture': Vulture is like Culture, but far less picky about the food.
01:26:09 <oerjan> i felt like adding more birds
01:27:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
01:29:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
01:30:13 <boily> vultures don't seem to be edible.
01:30:36 <oerjan> possibly not even to vultures.
01:45:11 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:47:27 -!- mtve has joined.
01:51:47 <boily> fungot: octanitrocubane.
01:51:48 <fungot> boily: sicp is a better algoritm for that one) of asperger's, i would want
02:03:40 -!- Akaibu has joined.
02:08:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Billiards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50918&oldid=50913 * Alexander-liao * (+363)
02:08:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Billiards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50919&oldid=50918 * Alexander-liao * (-2)
02:41:28 <boily> the saturday was snowy, but I have new rice.
02:41:39 <quintopia> have you hacked any good hacks hackly?
02:41:41 <boily> did you saturday good?
02:42:03 <shachaf> Are the grains long or short?
02:42:14 <quintopia> i can only have rice once a week if i don't eat too much cereal on this diet, and i would almost always rather have more fruity oatmeal
02:42:23 <boily> quintopia: well, yes, but only for internal company stuff. I like dependency injection.
02:42:32 <shachaf> Dependency injection is the scow.
02:42:49 <boily> hellochaf. it's white jasmine rice, 18 lbs. I don't know about any arsenic.
02:42:53 <quintopia> but yes, i worked 6 hours and then walked like 10 miles
02:43:28 <boily> jasmine, but basmati's good too.
02:44:08 <shachaf> Rice's theorem, on the other hand, is pretty scow.
02:44:09 <boily> dependency injection is amazing. promotes good architecture, separation of concerns, easily testable...
02:45:57 <quintopia> rice's theorem is good for DRM protection
02:46:36 <oerjan> `learn Codependency is a programmer disease caused by having too much code pending.
02:46:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'codependency': Codependency is a programmer disease caused by having too much code pending.
02:47:17 <boily> DRM is distilled scow.
02:48:47 <oerjan> SOMEONE'S KILLING ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE
02:49:34 <shachaf> oerjan has forgotten how to count that low.
02:49:38 * quintopia still holding out hope for cure for aging
02:50:04 <shachaf> Just inject yourself with the blood of young people.
02:50:07 <quintopia> shachaf: nah, some of his god-great-great-great-great-grandchildren are only 100
02:51:21 <oerjan> i don't have godchildren.
02:52:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ACCUPRESSURE CHICKEN).
02:55:15 <quintopia> oerjan: impressive how you outlived them!
03:31:25 -!- idris-bot has joined.
04:04:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
04:45:18 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
05:01:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ARGH).
05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:33:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
05:48:18 -!- Zarutian has joined.
06:10:01 -!- FiveBroDeepBook has joined.
06:15:17 -!- FiveBroDeepBook has quit (Excess Flood).
06:17:03 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
06:57:52 -!- myname has joined.
07:29:27 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
07:48:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:12:47 -!- augur has joined.
08:15:06 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
08:15:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:17:59 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
08:22:49 -!- augur has joined.
08:29:55 -!- augur_ has joined.
08:32:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:37:16 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk/colorrobotbattle.htm).
09:00:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ALL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50920&oldid=50667 * IQBigBang * (+1265)
09:02:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ALL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50921&oldid=50920 * IQBigBang * (+0)
09:20:57 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:00:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:00:27 -!- augur has joined.
10:04:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:06:37 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:25:34 <rdococ> probabilistic booleans would solve various problems...
10:26:11 <rdococ> but they're fascinating.
10:26:22 <myname> nah, they are not that weird
10:27:05 <rdococ> anyway, I'm working on some kind of fuzzy/random/probabilistic/thing.
10:27:37 <rdococ> the % function would create a new random variable that only gets measured at the end of the program.
10:28:19 <rdococ> "x = 50%", for example. if you did "y = !x" then "z = x&y" then z would be 0%, because !x is never x.
10:39:06 <rdococ> I don't get this: http://tinyurl.com/hwwtqjs
10:41:42 <myname> there is a video about "can you guess what this blackboxed circuit does by doing just one meassurement"
10:41:59 <myname> it explains qubits quite well
10:42:06 <rdococ> but how does one input change the other?
10:44:34 <rdococ> myname: how does one input change the other output?
10:51:22 <rdococ> I 50% get it and 50% don't
10:51:26 <rdococ> my mind entered a superposition
10:51:53 <myname> i hope it's 50%... right
10:52:24 <rdococ> I forgot about entanglement
10:53:00 <myname> which is like _the_ reason to actually use qubits
10:54:29 <rdococ> so the link I gave was entanglement?
10:55:06 <rdococ> but Quirk says each result is 25% likely...
10:55:20 -!- FreeFull has joined.
11:03:55 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:04:42 -!- tromp has joined.
11:06:19 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
11:07:38 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
11:11:20 <HackEgo> `[hd]o[aw][gt] [<filename>] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first.
11:11:55 <HackEgo> If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss:
11:12:22 <HackEgo> 10235:2017-02-12 <shachäf> forget it \ 8403:2016-06-08 <shachäf> sled wisdom/it//s\\ $\\\\ \ 8397:2016-06-07 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. " \ 7481:2016-04-18 <b_jonäs> `` sed -i "s#governments.*#governments, / Myself not least, but honour\'d of them all; / And drunk delight of battle with my peers, / Far on the ringi
11:13:56 <rdococ> wonder what a quantum programming language would look like
11:14:44 <rdococ> you mean it's actually a good idea?
11:15:48 <wob_jonas> why was there never a wisdom/nem ? should I retroactively create it so shachaf can delete it too?
11:17:51 <rdococ> oh you're talking to someone else
11:21:36 <shachaf> wob_jonas: I mean, yes, I deleted it.
11:22:28 <wob_jonas> shachaf: same thing but translated. just like how wisdom/ha is the same part of the translation of the poem wisdom/if is from
11:22:53 <HackEgo> If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss:
11:22:57 <HackEgo> Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad
11:23:03 <shachaf> Why do you make these things?
11:23:36 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I was trying to make some entries for common words, hoping people would create better entries for those common words
11:24:17 <shachaf> I mean, make a bad entry in the hope that people would replace it with a good entry.
11:24:23 <wob_jonas> but most of the common words already exist
11:24:42 <shachaf> If you want there can be a database of proposed entry keys that people can peruse.
11:25:04 <shachaf> I don't understand why you make all those wisdom entries, though.
11:27:39 <wob_jonas> how about just it//Taneb invented it.
11:27:49 <Taneb> I didn't invent everything
11:30:18 <wob_jonas> Taneb: of course not. you just _reinvented_ everything, because Gauss has invented all the mathematics everyone else will do in the next thousand years, but for most of it, he didn't bother writing it down because it was either too trivial or too advanced for his contemporaries to understand.
11:30:44 <wob_jonas> So since Gauss, nobody can invent any new mathematics
11:33:29 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
11:33:36 <Taneb> Not until 2855 at least
11:33:41 <Taneb> So we just gotta wait
11:34:13 <wob_jonas> not just wait as such, but we have to reinvent some of that mathematics
11:34:36 <rdococ> that's kind of depressing
11:58:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
12:02:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
12:06:01 <wob_jonas> A die is a small cube roleplayers roll for random generation, what happens to their character when they roll low, the mold used for making it and miniatures, and the paint giving them color.
12:16:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
12:16:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
12:16:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
12:16:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:25:53 -!- boily has joined.
13:31:24 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
13:44:12 <int-e> "The space corresponding to a spatial locale is not uniquely determined, but it becomes so if one requires that it be sober, i.e. that every prime open set should be the complement of the closure of a unique point."
13:44:20 <fungot> int-e: making output go sloooow..
13:47:48 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
13:47:57 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
13:48:07 <HackEgo> 422) <monqy> cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" <oerjan> yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian.
13:52:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:55:36 -!- LKoen has joined.
14:19:21 <HackEgo> segmentation fault//The Segmentation Fault is just of the Silicon Valley and is known to produce various hiccups at the most inconvienent times.
14:21:47 <boily> . o O ( pajamas and foxes and Canadian zombies in a chasm )
14:21:54 <HackEgo> snow//Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
14:22:06 -!- augur has joined.
14:26:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:27:36 -!- impomatic_ has joined.
14:32:56 <boily> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Q/quantum-bogodynamics.html
14:34:48 <rdococ> when my computer was exposed to bogon radiation a small while ago I had to find a cluon emitting USB flash drive
14:38:59 <boily> the best way to operate a machine is stark naked. it helps telluric currents to flow.
14:39:36 <rdococ> I'll have to come up with my own at some point
14:39:41 <rdococ> I like the computron idea
14:40:18 <wob_jonas> rdococ: you know, how like ether is a real substance, but people don't care about that and give the word an entirely different mystical meaning unrelated to it
14:40:29 <rdococ> something that's funny though, hotter, disordered things actually have more information, but it's funny they have less computron information
14:40:51 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
14:41:30 <wob_jonas> thouhg at least sometimes they write ætheric instead
14:41:50 <rdococ> can you point me to a page on etheric and telluric?
14:41:54 <boily> there may have been a few ætheric chickens here and there...
14:42:06 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current
14:43:38 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element)
14:44:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
14:44:31 <wob_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether
14:44:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Douira * New user account
14:47:45 <rdococ> could I submit one of the jargon entries?
14:48:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
14:49:12 <boily> from where to where?
14:49:33 <rdococ> on the catb jargon website
14:50:02 <boily> from the jargon file? to the jargon file?
14:50:26 <boily> oh! you'd have to contact ESR for that.
14:50:34 <rdococ> I could just put it in wisdom
14:50:46 <rdococ> since HackEgo doesn't seem to know what ether is
14:51:00 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
14:51:06 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
14:51:28 <HackEgo> `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
14:51:40 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
14:52:22 <boily> `slwd le\/\/rn//ss/s//s
14:52:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50922&oldid=50917 * Douira * (+412) introduction of myself
14:52:37 * boily thwacks the HackEgo in the leaning toothpick
14:53:08 <rdococ> "Ether is the medium by which light waves travel. When you see light, you're actually hearing it through your eyes."
14:55:05 <rdococ> whadya think of the concept?
14:56:49 <rdococ> woah, I can actually hear you
14:57:32 * boily luminously thwacks rdococ
14:57:50 <rdococ> that made a loud light
14:59:50 <rdococ> I just discovered a new particle... saltons
15:04:03 <boily> that's just plain old regular salt. maybe kosher, if you're lucky.
15:04:19 <boily> or perhaps calcium chloride, for making pickles...
15:05:00 <rdococ> yeah you're probably right
15:05:16 <rdococ> I need a new, good idea for an esolang
15:05:26 <rdococ> I'm thinking probability
15:05:31 <boily> . o O ( rubbing cucumbers on people to make pickles... )
15:05:33 <rdococ> or perhaps fuzzy logic
15:05:38 <wob_jonas> isn't salt one of the four classical alchemical elements, with mercury, urine, and sulphur being the others?
15:08:33 <wob_jonas> so these would be made of atoms, named saltine, no wait, saltine is an existing word for something else, salton, mercurion, urinon, sulphuron.
15:08:48 <wob_jonas> and of course mercury is the one everyone hates
15:09:01 <wob_jonas> because they have to wait years for a Trabant
15:09:02 <rdococ> so from those four you can make everything else?
15:09:17 <wob_jonas> rdococ: I don't know how it works, ask Paracelsus
15:09:54 <boily> rdococ: if you want probability, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Strelnokoff
15:11:01 <wob_jonas> no, if you want probability, try http://esolangs.org/wiki/My_Unreliable_Past
15:12:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
15:13:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
15:14:47 <HackEgo> grey//Grey is a common misspelling of Gey
15:15:09 <HackEgo> waltext2//WalText2 is WalrusOS's vector font renderer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version.
15:15:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NODULAR CHICKEN).
15:15:40 -!- furozo has joined.
15:19:44 <rdococ> a linear 0-100 percentage probability system might work... kinda
15:20:22 <rdococ> in fact, I could make a family of languages where each pseudo-qubit can be represented as an n-sphere
15:21:35 <rdococ> then the real life one would be Bloch-2, a 4d one Bloch-3, a simpler 2d system Bloch-1 and an even simpler 1d system Bloch-0
15:23:48 <rdococ> I should stick with 1d for now maybe?
15:23:52 <rdococ> what do you guys think?
15:24:55 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:37:38 <quintopia> wob_jonas: why did you give me the RIP
15:38:20 <wob_jonas> quintopia: you posted that Raymond Smullyan died
15:40:29 <quintopia> yeah but i posted it many hours before. lel.
15:42:06 <wob_jonas> quintopia: I'm not reading the channel all the time day and night, despite what it sometimes looks
15:43:34 <quintopia> sure but when you tell me RIP apropos of nothing when im not here,it seems like ive done something bad or am going to die myself. most disconcerting.
15:43:41 <rdococ> I found the valentines character: 몾
15:45:34 <wob_jonas> it was among the most recent lines you said so I hoped context was clear
15:47:00 <quintopia> no i didnt read my lines back that far. i only read my last 3 lines.
15:56:43 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
16:00:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
16:18:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hsorenson]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50923&oldid=50887 * Hsorenson * (+4)
16:25:05 -!- Zarutian has joined.
16:27:53 <int-e> why doesn't that surprise me
17:25:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:39:17 -!- kragniz has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5).
17:40:06 -!- kragniz has joined.
17:41:03 <oerjan> `8ball should i create a new it entry?
17:41:04 <HackEgo> I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
17:41:21 <oerjan> . o O ( was hoping for "It is certainly so." )
17:42:04 <oerjan> `learn It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate.
17:42:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'it': It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate.
17:42:49 <int-e> `8ball What is this?
17:42:50 <HackEgo> Concentrate and ask again.
17:43:20 <HackEgo> The 1 is just for disambiguation.
17:43:47 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
17:44:06 <oerjan> we might be a bit inconsistent on with and without `
17:45:55 <int-e> . o O ( 2b | ~2b == -1 )
17:46:19 <oerjan> why -1, that's the question
17:46:34 <int-e> (the 0x were omitted for legibility)
17:47:08 <int-e> also, I rather strongly suspect that the precedence is messed up.
17:48:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50924&oldid=50901 * Douira * (+10) added SUL
17:49:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50925 * Douira * (+197) created with stub info
17:49:02 <int-e> 0x2b | ((~ 0x2b) == (-1)) is not really what I had in mind, though it's still true in C.
17:49:09 <oerjan> > 2 b .|. complement (2 b) -- the complement ruins it
17:49:13 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M151638560072...
17:49:13 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a0)’ from being solved.
17:49:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50926&oldid=50925 * Douira * (+2)
17:49:36 <lambdabot> from the context: (Num (t -> t1), Num t)
17:49:48 <oerjan> i guess the instance isn't there
17:50:12 <int-e> the pointwise evaluation instance was lost when mokus took over from Cale, if I have the lambdabot ownership history straight
17:53:33 <oerjan> i guess that one is standard
17:54:05 <int-e> instance Monoid b => Monoid (a -> b) -- Defined in ‘GHC.Base’
17:54:39 <int-e> (that reference to GHC.Base is not very helpful)
17:55:40 <oerjan> well it does have a hackage page iirc
17:56:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50927&oldid=50926 * Douira * (+523) added some info
17:56:27 <int-e> Well, Data.Monoid would be more helpful, but of course less accurate.
17:56:30 <oerjan> that module is listed, but not linked
17:57:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50928&oldid=50927 * Douira * (+0)
17:58:27 <int-e> Hmm, geolocation and proxies can be confusing. "Someone near Brunswick, NI, DE with the IP address [redacted] is trying to access a secure portion of your [redacted] account."
17:59:52 <oerjan> . o O ( [redacted] can be confusing )
18:00:40 <oerjan> well that's just [redacted]
18:03:12 <Taneb> My [redacted] revision is going well today
18:03:40 <int-e> Taneb: does it involve locales?
18:03:58 <Taneb> int-e, nah, I've been doing that for fun lately
18:05:27 <HackEgo> Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
18:06:19 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it.
18:06:37 <Taneb> oerjan, haven't actually got the result back yet
18:06:56 <Taneb> The maths department here takes a while sometimes
18:07:26 <Taneb> (As it happens, I'm revising a follow-on module from algebraic geometry)
18:08:59 <oerjan> int-e: where is Brunswick, NI, DE anyway? the main german one is in lower saxony...
18:09:35 <int-e> oerjan: lower saxony = Niedersachsen = NI
18:09:42 <int-e> (the last one is a guess)
18:10:54 <int-e> http://www.datendieter.de/item/Liste_Abkuerzungen_Bundeslaender ... apparently it's standard.
18:11:11 * oerjan somehow expected NS. oh wait...
18:11:44 <int-e> (and saxony would be SA, right?)
18:12:09 <int-e> (or would that be saarland...)
18:13:46 <oerjan> Sachsen-Anhalt, i should think.
18:14:07 <oerjan> looking at that list, i indeed suspect they explicitly avoid those acronyms.
18:14:13 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
18:14:42 <oerjan> because many of the others use (sub)word initials
18:14:42 <int-e> Saxony-Anhalt <-- looks weird.
18:16:12 <oerjan> in fact, all the others for which it would be reasonable do, except that HB is for some reason Bremen instead of Hamburg.
18:16:24 <int-e> anyway, it had nothing to do with the knights who say Ni!.
18:17:52 <oerjan> although SA might be for the same reason they don't use BR - too many possibilities.
18:19:26 <int-e> I like HB and HH for being mildly obscure.
18:20:34 <oerjan> oh is the H for hanseatic
18:20:39 <int-e> (Bremen and Hamburg were both members of the Hanseatic League; the H stands for "Hansestadt")
18:22:09 -!- augur has joined.
18:22:46 <int-e> heh, it's even mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Hansa_cities#Modern_Hansa_connections ... though for license plates, but the idea is the same.
18:23:11 <wob_jonas> no way. H is for hard, B is for blunt, and F is for ... I dunno
18:23:42 <int-e> frivolous comes to mind
18:24:30 <oerjan> indeed, lower saxony was only established in 1946, just at the time when avoiding the acronym would be most prudent.
18:24:32 <int-e> (I spelt that correctly, so lucky)
18:25:55 <int-e> . o O ( NI is short for lower saxony, for reasons. )
18:34:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:46:25 <wob_jonas> It's funny how every country has these crazy two-letter abbreviations of constituent states or areas, but Hungary uses the much simpler solution of just making the names of settlements unique so you don't have to qualify them.
18:51:15 -!- krok_ has joined.
18:57:45 -!- augur has joined.
18:58:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:59:08 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
19:07:50 -!- augur has joined.
19:08:35 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
19:08:37 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit).
19:12:00 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
19:13:29 <fizzie> For anyone in the UK, if you're interested in old Unixy hardware, I'm trying to get rid of these things: https://goo.gl/photos/Dm6jNwCQnrWwfLDk7
19:13:44 <fizzie> (Elsewhere too if you're willing to come here to pick them up.)
19:15:52 <HackEgo> 10238:2017-02-12 <boil̈y> forget grey \ 8220:2016-05-31 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn Grey/Grey is a common misspelling of Gey
19:19:10 <oerjan> . o O ( people seem to have gotten more deletionist with wisdom/ lately )
19:25:46 <int-e> none as extreme as ais523 though
19:26:48 <oerjan> ais523 is extreme de... oh right.
19:27:15 <oerjan> we've deleted that part of history.
19:27:19 <int-e> actually, why did http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/af386cb583b9 catch so many files?
19:28:05 <oerjan> int-e: echo gives no actual line breaks
19:28:25 <int-e> ah, of course. thanks.
19:30:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: YW, and later).
19:30:39 <int-e> `cat bin/pastequotes
19:30:39 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste
19:36:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50929&oldid=50928 * Douira * (+5051) work in progress!
19:36:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50930&oldid=50929 * Douira * (-4)
20:03:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:14:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
20:44:12 <Taneb> Matrices are bloody useful things in maths
20:44:22 <Taneb> They seem to come up all over the place
20:45:15 <fizzie> Mattresses are p. useful as well.
20:47:21 <shachaf> Taneb: what's useful about them twh
20:47:46 <Taneb> A bunch of subsets of matrices are interesting algebraic groups
20:48:47 <Taneb> We also seem to be trapped in a matrix of solidity, a situation I rather enjoy
20:49:20 <HackEgo> 240) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
20:50:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nairb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50931 * Ivancr72 * (+393) Created page with "Nairb is a brainfuck derivate by [[User:Ivancr72]]. ==Overview== 2 new commands, <code>:</code> (print decimal) and <code>=</code> (set to zero). And some commands have a op..."
20:51:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50932&oldid=50924 * Ivancr72 * (+12)
20:52:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50933&oldid=50848 * Ivancr72 * (+34)
20:53:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50934&oldid=50846 * Ivancr72 * (+11)
21:14:39 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:20:26 -!- furozo has joined.
21:24:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:47:16 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
21:52:11 <HackEgo> A matrix is just a matrix. People use them to communicate. Taneb invented them.
21:53:42 <LKoen> well thank you I wasn't sure matrices were matrices but now it's clear
21:54:03 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
21:56:42 <int-e> . o O ( Matrices of size 9 and 24 are remembered for being loud and noisy. )
21:57:57 <int-e> I'm not sure when I saw my last dot matrix printer in action, outside of (youtube) videos.
22:00:01 <int-e> Oh, probably it was some ATM for printing bank statements, maybe 10 years ago.
22:00:47 <int-e> (not sure whether those *are* called ATMs, probably not, but after expanding the acronym the term is technically correct)
22:05:23 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
22:13:56 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
22:20:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:26:17 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:31:59 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
22:41:28 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:42:01 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:47:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:50:24 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:59:47 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
23:01:57 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:09:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:20:32 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
23:27:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:31:34 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:39:29 -!- furozo has joined.
23:49:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50935&oldid=50546 * Challenger5 * (+212) /* Input extension */
23:49:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50936&oldid=50935 * Challenger5 * (+96) /* Input extension */
23:53:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Betaload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50937&oldid=50914 * Challenger5 * (+135) /* Commands */
23:53:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Betaload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50938&oldid=50937 * Challenger5 * (-1) /* Examples */
00:11:11 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:13:57 -!- Jafet has joined.
00:27:22 -!- tromp__ has joined.
00:28:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:37:14 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:38:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
00:39:13 <HackEgo> 1034) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam.
00:39:16 <HackEgo> 1310) <fungot> boily: i haven't cited these because i don't understand how to program without becoming a rainbow
00:39:27 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste
00:40:44 <oerjan> `sled bin/pastequotes//s,; e.*, | paste; else url quotes; fi,
00:40:46 <HackEgo> bin/pastequotes//#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1" | paste; else url quotes; fi
00:41:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
00:41:17 <oerjan> it's got line numbers anyway
00:42:09 <oerjan> although i suppose the raw version won't.
00:43:11 <oerjan> i guess we can revert if anyone complains.
00:43:23 <shachaf> oerjan: Physical spam is not covered by CAN-SPAM. :-(
00:44:08 <oerjan> in norway, you can avoid most physical spam by putting a little sticker on your mailbox saying you don't want it.
00:44:09 <shachaf> US law regulating commercial email.
00:44:23 <shachaf> It requires things like opt-out links.
00:44:45 <oerjan> although that's because the way norwegian mail ads work, they aren't usually personally addressed.
00:44:56 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechanics_of_CAN-SPAM
00:45:01 <shachaf> I suspect you benefit from it too?
00:45:03 <oerjan> so they just dump a copy into every mailbox that doesn't have the sticker.
00:45:35 <shachaf> I think the US postal service is primarily funded by spam or something.
00:46:00 <oerjan> i dunno. i'm generally assuming spam is so fishy that clicking any links in it, including opt-out links, will make it worse.
00:46:28 <shachaf> Well, blatant spam won't care about CAN-SPAM anyway.
00:46:47 <shachaf> But if you get signed up to some semi-legitimate mailing list "accidentally", you can remove yourself.
00:47:10 <oerjan> the problem is, how do you know it's semi-legitimate
00:47:41 <shachaf> For example, it's sent from a company that you ordered something from once.
00:47:59 <fizzie> I've been told that here in the UK, you can't opt out of Royal Mail delivering those ads that are addressed to generic terms like "The Occupant" or "The Homeowner".
00:48:09 <shachaf> Or a theatre where you went to see a play once and made the mistake of providing your email address?
00:48:34 <oerjan> i'm not sure norwegian mail is much ad-funded, as it seems to me _most_ mailboxes (but not all) have the stickers.
00:48:43 <shachaf> fizzie: But you're not the homeowner, are you?
00:48:54 <shachaf> Or did you buy that prime London real estate you were eyeing?
00:48:55 <fizzie> No, but I still throw those in the trash.
00:49:33 <fizzie> "Opting out of Royal Mail's Door to Door service -- The opt out service only relates to unaddressed mail. Royal Mail is still legally obliged to deliver all addressed mail, which includes mail that is addressed “To the Occupier” (or with any other generic recipient information), as well as mail that is personally addressed to you by name."
00:49:59 <oerjan> . o O ( someone might try to sue the royal mail for environmental damage )
00:50:00 <fizzie> I'd guesstimate half of the physical spam we get is of that type.
00:50:10 <fizzie> The other half is things like pizza delivery company ads.
00:50:31 <oerjan> fizzie: oh. so it still needs your actual _address_, but they don't need to know your name?
00:51:01 <shachaf> My information is apparently available via voter registration records. Kind of scow if you ask me.
00:51:14 <shachaf> I got a bunch of mail saying I hadn't voted yet and therefore I should vote for X and Y.
00:51:19 <shachaf> I guess that's an incentive to vote early.
00:51:44 <oerjan> i don't think political ads are covered by the stickers :P
00:51:47 <shachaf> i,i vote early and vote often
00:52:20 <fizzie> Here there's something called the electoral roll (or register), which you have to be on, but you can opt out of the "open register", which is the subset they sell to advertisers.
00:52:49 <shachaf> Berkeley, CA is rather unrepresentative of the country as a whole, voting-wise.
00:53:27 <fizzie> We got that governmental Brexit leaflet even though we weren't allowed to vote in the referendum.
00:54:19 <shachaf> i,i http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html
00:54:33 <Jafet> perhaps you were being advised to make a brexit
00:54:51 <fizzie> "brexit" is probably a keyword in some language.
00:55:02 <HackEgo> brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
00:55:14 -!- boily has joined.
00:55:22 <fizzie> I would assume it's like break, except exit if there's no enclosing scope to break.
00:55:40 <lambdabot> CYUL 130042Z 07011KT 1SM R06L/P6000FT/D R06R/P6000FT/D -SN DRSN OVC016 M03/M05 A2970 RMK SN2ST6 SLP062
00:55:49 <lambdabot> EGLL 130050Z AUTO 08012KT 3200 HZ BKN009 05/04 Q1023
00:56:02 <boily> it's a fungotting snowstorm outside.
00:56:03 <fungot> boily: 4.4 megs of articles, that's like so rare.
00:56:10 <boily> fungot: 4.4 tons of snow, you mean.
00:56:11 <fungot> boily: how do you escape parens with sexprs? is it used? something like that safely, but it likes to manufacture ' tension'.
00:56:14 <fizzie> Here it's apparently 3.2 kilohertz of weather.
00:56:28 <shachaf> Apparently my information is at least 10 years out of date.
00:56:46 <fizzie> Yeah, it's not a new thing.
00:56:48 <oerjan> shachaf: fizzie being married isn't exactly news.
00:57:30 <shachaf> I guess it's come up many times before.
00:57:44 <fizzie> I've got our wedding photo in the Finnish IRC user registry, you know.
00:58:23 <oerjan> on the other hand, he _is_ the only person on the channel that i remember being married. although i remember there _are_ others.
00:59:40 <boily> I think Roujo is married. at least last time I heard about him.
01:00:05 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:00:15 <oerjan> (at least this part of) norway is having one of those strange winter dry spells again
01:00:18 -!- HackEgo has joined.
01:00:23 <HackEgo> 932) <fizzie> The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree
01:00:42 <HackEgo> 2/2:ne one in Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?)
01:00:53 <fizzie> I vaguely remember that.
01:01:33 <shachaf> oerjan: There should be a version of sport that only uses spam if some text wouldn't fit into one line.
01:01:37 <shachaf> And then quote should use it?
01:01:45 <shachaf> Or maybe people should just not use long quotes.
01:02:58 <shachaf> <fizzie> What I do is in this sort of arguments (well, usually it's my wife claiming some word I'm using is not a "proper word"), I write a convincing-looking web page and open it as file:/// in my browser.
01:03:39 <fizzie> To be entirely honest, I've only done that once or twice, and it has so far failed to convince.
01:04:25 <shachaf> Like this: https://www.wordfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/dataURI.png
01:04:27 <fizzie> I can never remember how the syntax goes.
01:05:19 <shachaf> Unless you want base64 or something.
01:05:37 <fizzie> Yeah, it's the comma vs. semicolon thing.
01:05:51 <fizzie> Because then it's data:mime/type;base64,data.
01:06:00 <shachaf> Do you use Google 2-Step Verification?
01:06:13 <fizzie> Yes, with the Authenticator app.
01:06:34 <shachaf> What would you do if you were traveling and all your possessions were stolen?
01:06:50 <fizzie> Curse a little, I think.
01:07:09 <fizzie> I can only do it well in Finnish.
01:07:52 <fizzie> I don't have anything too important tied to my Google account, I don't think.
01:07:59 <shachaf> It's my primary email account.
01:08:08 <shachaf> Therefore it's nearly every Internet account I have.
01:08:46 <shachaf> I decided to memorize two backup codes.
01:09:04 <shachaf> I wonder whether I should memorize my TOTP secret instead?
01:09:25 <fizzie> I don't have a good backup strategy for the things I actually use, because they require an SSH key.
01:11:21 <fizzie> And a pretty special port-knocking thing too, I'm not sure I could write that from scratch either.
01:13:58 <boily> can you chain and compose curses together in Finnish?
01:15:55 <shachaf> That reminds me: How should I generate passwords from a master password and per-account name?
01:18:07 <fizzie> boily: I don't think you can in a particularly special way. I mean, you can list several without having any grammar to tie them together, and it sounds quite natural.
01:18:28 <fizzie> shachaf: I thought some hashing was usually involved.
01:18:38 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:18:57 <shachaf> If my master password is good, is there a benefit to using a slow hash function like bcrypt?
01:19:33 <shachaf> What sort of alphabet should my per-account passwords consist of? Maybe just /[a-z]+/?
01:19:44 -!- jix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:19:50 <shachaf> How should I generate a password from the output of whatever hash function?
01:21:36 <fizzie> I wonder if base62 might be a good idea.
01:22:36 -!- jix has joined.
01:22:39 <shachaf> What's the benefit of uppercase letters?
01:23:16 <shachaf> Well, the benefit is more entropy for a given length. But is it worth the cost?
01:23:35 <fizzie> I guess it depends on whether you have to type those passwords or not.
01:23:45 <shachaf> Harder to remember, much longer if you count shift as a keystroke, harder to type on a phone...
01:23:57 <shachaf> I type some passwords out.
01:25:48 <shachaf> For example, say you generate a 15-character lowercase password.
01:25:55 <oerjan> . o O ( du dævern hain steike førbainna ijnn i svarte hælvete kor vi nordlændinga kainn kjed sammen bainnord )
01:26:26 <shachaf> If you allow upercase letters, that's just one bit per character.
01:27:03 <shachaf> So you could get the same entropy with ~3 more letters.
01:27:52 <fizzie> Yes, if you type them it might not be worth it. Although a number of sites insist on having at least one uppercase letter and one digit.
01:28:17 <shachaf> Yes, but you can get around that requirement with a mechanical transformation of the password.
01:28:32 <shachaf> No need to remember a more complicated password.
01:33:03 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
01:34:11 <boily> `relcome ChatSharp
01:34:12 <HackEgo> ChatSharp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:34:37 -!- ChatSharp has left.
01:36:15 <fizzie> How to play the autoharp.
01:36:49 <fizzie> I can't remember where that's from.
01:37:21 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
01:37:57 <shachaf> `slwd fizzie//s.king.prime minister.
01:37:59 <fizzie> Google is not being helpful. I think it was some other song that mentioned the autoharp.
01:37:59 <HackEgo> fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
01:39:31 <boily> if fizzie ain't royal anymore, who's the new king?
01:40:14 <shachaf> fizzie is a republican, i think
01:40:31 -!- yorick has joined.
01:44:37 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
01:47:59 <boily> guzzling diet coke.
01:49:03 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
01:49:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:51:26 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
01:52:56 -!- ChatSharp has left.
02:05:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
02:11:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: KNOWING CHICKEN).
02:24:19 -!- augur has joined.
02:34:55 -!- erkin has joined.
02:39:05 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
02:45:01 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
03:00:17 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:04:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
03:06:53 <\oren\> Imminent flood in california, sacramento
03:13:45 <zzo38> This is another idea of making a Magic: the Gathering card: 1/1 ;; Defender, Banding ;; Combat damage dealt to ~ is redirected to you.
03:16:16 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
03:17:46 <zzo38> What are your opinion of it?
03:19:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:21:41 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
03:51:11 <zzo38> Do you know why sometimes the pixel clock of the display on my computer is sometimes unexpectedly altered and/or unstable today?
03:51:48 <zzo38> Sorry, I mean the phase
03:52:04 <zzo38> The clock is proper.
03:52:55 <erkin> Maybe it's a fluctuation in time.
03:53:38 <oerjan> http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html
03:54:38 * oerjan tries not to leave newlines in the buffer, but forgets
03:58:04 <zzo38> erkin: I don't think so?
04:04:01 <zzo38> I can't be quite sure, but still I don't think so.
04:04:28 -!- bigcake has joined.
04:09:05 -!- Akaibu has joined.
04:11:42 <zzo38> I found the mention of a infinite chess game with one piece that can jump any prime distance.
04:25:32 <erkin> Do you win by getting the king off the chessboard?
04:31:33 <zzo38> I would think you win by checkmating your opponent's king, like you do in FIDE.
05:27:11 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:37:00 <\oren\> does anyone know about tic tac toe on an infinite plane?
05:39:42 <\oren\> can the O player force a tie as in regular tic tac toe?
05:39:57 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
05:41:00 <\oren\> wait, no. Can the O player prevent X from winning indefinitely?
05:42:29 <erkin> Can they keep each other from winning indefinitely?
05:48:27 -!- bigcake has joined.
05:53:05 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
05:53:27 -!- erkin has joined.
05:53:59 -!- wdfwefewvfgew has joined.
05:54:03 -!- wdfwefewvfgew has left.
05:59:46 <sirnaysayer> on an infinite plane no one can win tic-tac-toe since the winning conditions can never be met
06:00:05 <oerjan> \oren\: 3-in-a-row is a win for the first player if there are enough rows and columns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M,n,k-game
06:01:24 <oerjan> and only limited information for 4- up to 8- in a row.
06:06:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
06:20:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:27:48 -!- tromp has joined.
06:32:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:45:02 <zzo38> When are you going to invent the Checkout preprocessor?
06:45:32 <zzo38> Also I think the trigonometry functions should be added on too
06:47:20 <kmc> hello everyone
06:47:24 <kmc> it's been a long time
06:50:00 <HackEgo> kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
06:51:38 <kmc> i heard that limit hold 'em poker is ~solved
06:52:10 <olsner> are you back? were you gone? welcome anyway
06:53:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Bad timing ZZZZZ).
06:55:22 <zzo38> I have seen a AI for limit hold'em poker, and I tried to play and won by a very small number of points (and I am not very good at poker anyways), so I think it isn't quite solved. Anyways I think usually it is no-limit that is played (and I rarely see anything about pot-limit; is that game so uncommon?)
06:56:45 <kmc> how does pot limit work?
06:58:05 <zzo38> The limit of the raise is the amount currently in the pot (including previous betting rounds) plus the amount needed to call.
06:58:32 <kmc> > 16:59 < oerjan> on the other hand, he _is_ the only person on the channel that i remember being married. although i remember there _are_ others.
06:58:35 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:34: error: parse error on input ‘,’
06:58:37 <kmc> i'm married too!
07:01:15 <pikhq_> ... Though that's also been for a week, so.
07:01:27 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:03:12 <zzo38> I intend to never be marry
07:03:54 -!- Jafet has joined.
07:04:56 <erkin> I intend to never be merry.
07:07:09 -!- impomatic_ has changed nick to impomatic.
07:14:30 <zzo38> A variant of poker game I have never seen is to play spread-limit before the flop and pot-limit after the flop.
07:14:50 <kmc> pikhq_: congrats!
07:16:53 <zzo38> Another way I have thought of is like Texas Hold'em but also involving a few of the features of One Poker.
07:18:16 <kmc> how does One Poker work?
07:19:12 <zzo38> One Poker is played as following: Each player gets two cards face-down. Each player knows how many of his two cards are high cards (higher means 89TJQKA). And then, each player picks one card to play (secretly), and then you bet. If nobody folds, the higher card wins, except that a deuce beats an ace (but loses to anything else). Afterward, the card you chose not to play you keep and you get dealt one more card to replenish to two cards, and you st
07:19:46 <zzo38> s/knows how many of his two cards/knows how many of his opponent's two cards/
07:19:58 <kmc> that's weird
07:20:15 <kmc> I've lately been trying to understand NMR physics
07:21:07 <zzo38> (Your own cards you of course know exactly what they are. Also, suits are irrelevant in One Poker.)
07:21:14 <zzo38> What is NMR physics?
07:21:29 <kmc> nuclear magnetic resonance
07:25:37 <zzo38> (Also in One Poker, the card you play is exposed after betting even if you or your opponent folds.)
07:26:30 <kmc> hi shachaf
07:28:29 -!- FreeFull has quit.
07:29:19 -!- tromp has joined.
07:33:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
07:43:03 <\oren\> I wonder if sacramento is being washed into the pacific
07:48:40 <\oren\> shachaf: do you have any info on this big flood that's happening
07:50:10 <kmc> 180,000 people ordered to evacuate but do they have a designated place to go?
07:55:01 <kmc> I wonder why my machine renders Han characters as Hangul
07:55:06 <kmc> I guess the fonts are very messed up
07:58:04 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:58:57 <\oren\> maybe it's a font that is made for EUC-KR but is being treated as if it were for EUC-CN? can that happen?
08:00:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:00:54 -!- augur has joined.
08:05:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:21:54 -!- augur has joined.
08:24:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:25:01 -!- augur has joined.
08:25:02 -!- erkin has joined.
08:27:54 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
08:28:06 -!- tromp has joined.
08:30:17 -!- ChatSharp has left.
08:32:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
08:34:43 <shachaf> kmc: did you see all the advances in HackEgo technology
08:34:47 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
08:35:17 <shachaf> `slwd shavention//s.invented.did not invent.
08:35:19 <HackEgo> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb did not invent them.
08:39:05 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb did not invent them yet.
08:47:29 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:51:14 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:54:18 -!- BooK has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
09:03:28 -!- bigcake has joined.
09:23:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:24:43 -!- augur has joined.
09:26:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:27:13 -!- augur has joined.
09:29:00 -!- tromp has joined.
09:33:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
10:04:03 -!- Yocacera has joined.
10:09:43 -!- Yocacera has left.
10:15:17 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
10:31:56 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
10:33:52 -!- ChatSharp has left.
10:35:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:40:25 -!- BooK has joined.
10:44:06 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
10:45:56 -!- ChatSharp has left.
10:55:02 -!- tromp has joined.
10:59:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
11:01:23 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
11:03:15 -!- ChatSharp has left.
11:14:40 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
11:14:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:15:34 -!- augur has joined.
11:16:29 -!- ChatSharp has left.
11:20:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:23:04 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
11:24:57 -!- ChatSharp has left.
11:34:27 -!- boily has joined.
11:39:45 -!- LKoen has joined.
11:42:58 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeeesh.
11:46:27 <boily> lunchtime doubly so.
11:47:37 <fungot> b_jonas: i wonder how some people abuse the word ' thereby' abused so hideously atrociously.) of the whole screen... pretty small but very portable.
12:22:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ISLAND CHICKEN).
12:33:46 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk/creeper.htm).
12:42:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
12:49:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
13:02:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:03:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:13:20 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
13:13:21 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it.
13:13:27 <Taneb> I got 79% in that exam :)
13:18:51 <b_jonas> Now you can learn other difficult mathematics topics that you can then invent
13:30:54 -!- pledis_ has joined.
13:30:54 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined.
13:31:02 -!- shachaf_ has joined.
13:32:10 -!- pledis has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
13:32:10 -!- int-e has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
13:32:10 -!- ^v has quit (Excess Flood).
13:32:17 -!- ^v has joined.
13:32:18 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:32:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:36:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50939&oldid=50930 * Douira * (+102) formatting
13:37:56 -!- int-e has joined.
13:45:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50940&oldid=50939 * Douira * (+469) added some examples
13:52:42 <Taneb> Gonna need 85% on average in my summer exams and dissertation to get a first
14:04:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50941&oldid=50940 * Douira * (+561) more examples
14:04:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50942&oldid=50941 * Douira * (+1) typo
14:07:18 -!- tromp has joined.
14:16:43 -!- copumpkin has joined.
14:18:59 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:19:21 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:32:36 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:32:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
14:34:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
14:51:57 <zzo38> If I will make new mahjong game on computer, what will they be call?
14:53:05 <zzo38> (according to your expectation)
15:02:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:14:21 <kmc> good morning all
15:19:36 -!- tromp has joined.
15:23:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:28:32 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
15:28:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
15:34:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know. I don't think you have a theme naming for your software like ais does
15:38:26 <zzo38> If you have a suggestion that I like then I can use the suggestion though
15:49:40 <zzo38> Do you have the idea of it?
15:52:41 -!- Sprocklem_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:59:05 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
16:01:52 -!- mn` has joined.
16:06:06 -!- mn` has left ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)").
16:08:28 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31C0KdvO2Ns
16:09:17 <\oren\> a lie group is a organization devoted to disinforming the public
16:09:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:19:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
16:32:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:38:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
16:46:11 <\oren\> today trump is meeting trudeau. hopefully trump realizes we didn't take usa's jobs
17:02:47 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:04:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50943&oldid=50942 * Douira * (+6) styling
17:04:39 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:06:10 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf.
17:09:13 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
17:11:35 <rdococ> are there problems other than the halting problem that a turing machine can't solve?
17:13:30 <oerjan> and also all the myriad of problems that can _emulate_ the halting problem of a turing machine.
17:15:06 <oerjan> e.g. post correspondence theorem, ambiguity of a context-free grammar, various "is this term well-typed in this typing system"...
17:16:05 <oerjan> but they all probably reduce either to the halting problem itself, or to a similar diagonalization.
17:16:27 <oerjan> *post correspondence problem
17:16:55 <shachaf> There are problems that are harder than the halting problem, of course.
17:17:16 <shachaf> I suppose that still counts as "similar diagonalization".
17:17:26 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:19:13 <oerjan> well, obviously wikipedia has a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undecidable_problems
17:19:41 -!- tromp has joined.
17:23:15 <rdococ> a rice oracle would also be able to solve the "Entscheidungsproblem" right?
17:23:38 <rdococ> honestly its mere pronounciation is a problem
17:23:58 <oerjan> you just need a halting oracle for that, i think
17:24:11 <oerjan> let your program be a search for a proof
17:24:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
17:25:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:26:42 <oerjan> . o O ( but German spelling is far more logical than English... )
17:27:12 <oerjan> not _entirely_ logical, though.
17:27:53 <oerjan> (there are several different ways of marking whether a vowel is long or short - and still some vowels aren't marked )
17:28:15 <oerjan> ( is there a bot with this prefix still
17:28:18 <shachaf> Speaking of Rice's theorem, I was wondering about variations of it given that you already know something about the program you're given.
17:28:25 <shachaf> E.g. if you know a program halts, what can you decide about it?
17:28:32 <zzo38> Choose one-- ;; - Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to target permanent or player this turn. ;; - Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature with banding. That creature loses banding until end of turn. ;; - Target creature you control blocks target creature that is attacking you. This mode can be used only during declare blockers step.
17:28:34 <shachaf> What if you know that a program represents a computable real?
17:29:34 <oerjan> rdococ: no, zzo38 decremented it
17:29:41 <oerjan> although so have others, i see
17:29:46 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of Magic: the Gathering card and what mana you think is worth?
17:29:57 <rdococ> and then shachaf incremented what exactly?
17:30:05 <oerjan> rdococ: apparently it was already -11 to start with
17:30:09 <zzo38> But it says one has a karma of -11. Isn't it?
17:30:17 <zzo38> That is less than zero.
17:30:43 <b_jonas> zzo32: strange. I don't think I've ever seen something like that third ability. this is supposed to be on an instant, right?
17:31:04 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, clearly
17:31:52 <b_jonas> if this thing exists, then it's almost certainly white, so a fair costing must be W or 1W or WW
17:32:13 <zzo38> I also thought white, yes
17:32:13 <rdococ> TwoDucks is only super-tc if the Novikov self-consistency principle is taken to be true, right?
17:32:15 <b_jonas> I'm not sure how that last ability even works
17:33:47 <oerjan> rdococ: if you have "new timeline replaces old" then i think you might get Feather instead...
17:34:17 <oerjan> but of course everything about Feather is only partially described at best
17:35:04 <oerjan> . o O ( randall munroe doesn't update his blag much )
17:35:06 <zzo38> b_jonas: What part you are not sure?
17:35:27 <oerjan> and still somehow i keep checking it nearly every monday
17:37:17 <oerjan> i think i see a pattern
17:37:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: does it somehow change the blocking assignment after it's been done? and what happens then? if the first creature was already blocking something and could block the second target but not both at the time, what happens? how do you change the damage assignment orders and damage assignments?
17:37:39 <oerjan> even though that should rarely appear before a pause
17:39:14 <oerjan> rdococ: common words go into the negative because people sometimes put a -- dash right after them
17:39:52 <rdococ> I'm surprised c doesn't have more positive karma, after all you have c++
17:40:11 <oerjan> rdococ: i think they exempted it
17:41:15 <rdococ> who'd type #++ though (other than me :p)
17:42:24 <oerjan> the single character ones might be affected more by code
17:42:25 <zzo38> b_jonas: See rule 509.6.
17:43:36 <rdococ> oh yay, my karma isn't negative
17:43:54 <oerjan> i'm not sure exactly who uses # ++ though. maybe one of these newfangled languages.
17:44:07 -!- MoALTz has joined.
17:44:23 <rdococ> what if I make a language called rdococ++
17:44:40 <oerjan> haskell itself doesn't use ++, so it must be when someone posts code in a different one
17:45:36 <oerjan> but it's list concatenation, so it's unlikely to appear in the right way - you'd either have no space, or space on both sides.
17:45:41 <zzo38> That mentions damage assignment order. About the other questions, I think that it remains blocking everything it is currently blocking and also blocks the new target too, regardless of restrictions about blocking. That is my guess.
17:47:42 <b_jonas> 509.6. If a spell or ability causes a creature on the battlefield to block an attacking creature, the active player announces the blocking creature’s placement in the attacking creature’s damage assignment order. The relative order among the remaining blocking creatures is unchanged. Then the defending player announces the attacking creature’s placement in the blocking creature’s damage assignment order. The relative order among the remaining att
17:47:56 <b_jonas> What existing card uses that?
17:48:14 <b_jonas> I thought we only had Gaze of Pain effects, which didn't really cause blocking
17:48:51 <zzo38> I don't know what existing card uses that
17:48:53 <b_jonas> Plus various effects that constrained blocking in advance, before it's decided
17:49:19 <b_jonas> Isn't that used for some backwards ninjutsu cards that put a creature on tb blocking something?
17:50:10 <HackEgo> Aetherplasm \ 2UU \ Creature -- Illusion \ 1/1 \ Whenever Aetherplasm blocks a creature, you may return Aetherplasm to its owner's hand. If you do, you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield blocking that creature. \ GPT-U
17:50:21 <b_jonas> that card, and possibly no more
17:51:38 <b_jonas> I don't think this phrasing would override any restrictions about blocking, because rule 101.2 says it doesn't override those. It would override requirements, such as lure effects.
17:52:58 <b_jonas> As for costing, it's really the first choice, preventing damage, which requires the card to be white. I could see the second ability in white, red, green, or black I think.
17:52:58 <zzo38> The creature is not being declared as a blocker though?
17:53:17 <b_jonas> And that last ability is something I've never seen the like, so I can't tell what color should have it.
17:53:45 <b_jonas> Could you just turn it into a gaze of pain effect, but with the opponent's creature having the scary eyes?
17:55:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, but that doesn't matter, at least for most restrictions. I don't think it will let you override flying, because of how 702.9 is phrased. Maybe it will let you block multiple creatures even without special abilities.
17:55:34 <rdococ> can you even iterate over all real numbers with the assistance of the halting oracle?
17:57:31 <zzo38> Effects that cause a creature to be blocked work even on unblockable creatures though, and some cards can attack even if restricted, and I think that evasion abilities and requirements and restrictions and costs to attack/block and other stuff are applicable to the declaration of an attack or block.
17:58:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's different, those are Curtain effects
17:58:10 -!- tromp has joined.
17:58:42 <b_jonas> Curtain effects let you turn a creature to blocked, but it's not blocked by anything in particular
17:58:56 <b_jonas> Curtain as in what Curtain of Light does, but there are several other cards like that too
17:59:10 <oerjan> rdococ: the real numbers are uncountable, so no.
17:59:42 <zzo38> Yes, they are different, but is still "can't be blocked"
18:00:11 <zzo38> Maybe ask someone else who know for sure, if even such an answer either way is possible
18:00:22 <oerjan> also, if you nest iterations, the answer is no even for integers.
18:00:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't think there's a precedent for this sort of effect. I'd say just turn it into a Gaze of Pain effect or something.
18:00:39 <rdococ> can you determine if two mathematical functions are equal with just a halting oracle then?
18:00:52 <b_jonas> Gaze of Pain isn't the only card that does that, right? it's just rare because it's such a useless effect
18:01:00 <oerjan> rdococ: i think that would requires nesting two iterations
18:01:18 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:01:24 <rdococ> well, if one is equal to zero at all points then
18:01:48 <rdococ> oerjan: you could subtract one's result from the other and check against zero
18:02:06 <rdococ> eg. f(x)-g(x)=0 for all x means f(x)=g(x) for all
18:02:07 * Zarutian thinks that primtive recursive functions are neat for being proovably terminating
18:02:40 <rdococ> unfortunately, as you say, the real numbers are uncountable
18:03:23 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Dwarven Vigilantes
18:03:24 <HackEgo> Dwarven Vigilantes \ 2R \ Creature -- Dwarf \ 2/2 \ Whenever Dwarven Vigilantes attacks and isn't blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Dwarven Vigilantes assigns no combat damage this turn. \ VI-C
18:03:35 <zzo38> I would just to add the rule if I need it, because I think what I specified seems most logical anyways. (There are some other minor changes I would make to the rules too, most of which affect nothing or hardly anything existing, although some might be affected in obscure circumstances. Such as, one thing I would to do is to redefine "flip a coin" as a keyword action that involves a random selection.)
18:04:10 <rdococ> so the sets of functions in Rice's theorem are uncomputable even with a halting oracle?
18:04:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50944&oldid=50943 * Douira * (+718) added more examples
18:04:32 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Farrel's Mantle
18:04:33 <HackEgo> Farrel's Mantle \ 2W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Whenever enchanted creature attacks and isn't blocked, its controller may have it deal damage equal to its power plus 2 to another target creature. If that player does, the attacking creature assigns no combat damage this turn. \ FE-U, ME2-U
18:04:54 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Lacrolith Rig
18:04:59 <oerjan> rdococ: oh wait, you don't need a nested iteration as long as checking a single value halts.
18:05:02 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Rig
18:05:03 <HackEgo> Laccolith Rig \ R \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Whenever enchanted creature becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, the first creature assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-C
18:05:12 <b_jonas> there's an entire cycle of this
18:05:20 <rdococ> wikipedia says you can go the other way
18:05:28 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Whelp
18:05:28 <HackEgo> Laccolith Whelp \ R \ Creature -- Beast \ 1/1 \ Whenever Laccolith Whelp becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Laccolith Whelp assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-C
18:05:33 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Warrior
18:05:33 <HackEgo> Laccolith Warrior \ 2RR \ Creature -- Beast Warrior \ 3/3 \ Whenever Laccolith Warrior becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Laccolith Warrior assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-U
18:05:45 <b_jonas> four creatures and an enchantment
18:05:58 <b_jonas> they used to do that sort of cycle in old sets, just think of the Flagbearers
18:06:03 <rdococ> e.g. a function that returns whether a mathematical function is a constant zero can be used to create a halting oracle
18:06:09 <zzo38> Existing cards that cause a creature already in play to block something (other than during declaration) already explicitly say the requirements anyways.
18:06:16 <zzo38> (e.g. Sorrow's Path)
18:06:39 <b_jonas> `card-by-name sorrow's path
18:06:40 <HackEgo> Sorrow's Path \ Land \ {T}: Choose two target blocking creatures an opponent controls. If each of those creatures could block all creatures that the other is blocking, remove both of them from combat. Each one then blocks all creatures the other was blocking. \ Whenever Sorrow's Path becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to you and each creature you co
18:07:08 <oerjan> . o O ( #hashtag #mtgspam )
18:07:22 <b_jonas> ``` card-by-name sorrow's path | perl -e'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,250'
18:07:22 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
18:07:34 <b_jonas> ``` card-by-name "sorrow's path" | perl -e'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,250'
18:07:34 <HackEgo> king. \ Whenever Sorrow's Path becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to you and each creature you control. \ DK-R, ME3-R
18:07:36 <rdococ> so a function that determines if a mathematical function is a constant zero- well, you can construct a function that returns f(x)-g(x) and check if any function f is indistinguishable from g
18:08:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's a good point, but that's a very old card that does something they probabyl wouldn't do now
18:08:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: and the rules text there is necessary because they want to avoid the effect where one of the creature changes what it blocks but the other doesn't
18:08:49 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, although I don't care; they probably wouldn't print the second mode of the card I made up either, because it involves banding.
18:09:06 -!- augur has joined.
18:09:13 <zzo38> And I did think of that too.
18:09:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:10:11 * Zarutian is thinking on how to combine Uno and Robo Rally
18:10:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:11:00 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:11:55 <zzo38> But it still isn't clear, because they didn't have the proper rules at the time of The Dark anyways; the new text just matches the printed text (which says that it may not cause an illegal block).
18:12:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, though there's a dating difference in my head. banding creatures were printed much later, up to fifth edition. sure, they didn't print pointless narrow cards like Tolaria, but that's just like how they don't print pointless stuff like Great Wall. Sorrow's Path is from The Dark, which is an early set I don't physically own a single card from.
18:13:59 -!- FreeFull has joined.
18:14:22 <b_jonas> Helm of Chatzuk and Benalish Hero are both in fifth edition. I have cards from Revised, Fourth, Fifth, and every expert set starting from Mirage, and I can buy new commons from those easily. The Dark is old and printed in low number of copies.
18:14:33 <zzo38> I happen to like banding though
18:15:03 <b_jonas> Sure, I like banding too. That's why I have a foursome of Benalish Hero, several other banding creatures, and even a Helm of Chatzuk.
18:15:16 <oerjan> `? tanebventions: math
18:15:18 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
18:16:23 -!- tromp has joined.
18:17:29 <zzo38> I found a forum message about General Jarkeld, where someone asks a question and the answer is "Yes. The General just switches the blockers, the blocks do not have to remain legal." Note that this is consistent with the current text of General Jarkeld, but it is different from the printed text! Some old cards do have significant functional differences from their original printed text.
18:18:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:19:10 -!- augur has joined.
18:22:30 <b_jonas> `card-by-name General Jarkeld
18:22:30 <HackEgo> General Jarkeld \ 3W \ Legendary Creature -- Human Soldier \ 1/2 \ {T}: Switch the blocking creatures of two target attacking creatures. Activate this ability only during the declare blockers step. \ IA-R
18:23:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: that sounds strange. when is the forum message from?
18:25:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: _when_. as in, ten years ago, five years ago, two years ago?
18:25:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
18:26:09 <zzo38> But I still think that doesn't make a difference, as I don't think that is one of the things that has changed since then.
18:26:48 <zzo38> But, if you do want to look, there is Yawgatog
18:28:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:30:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:40:48 <zzo38> One thing I would want to change is to add a rule about "persistent properties" of objects. A persistent property persists across zone changes and other stuff. Changing them (if they change at all, which is unlikely) is a one-shot effect. Persistent properties include the object's initial text (or initial AST), owner, and kind. And then, I would to redefine "card" in terms of kinds of objects. What do you think?
18:43:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: sorry, I can't answer this one. now isn't the right time for me to contemplate rephrasing the MTG rules.
18:49:37 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
18:53:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:54:04 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:54:56 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:00:54 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:02:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
19:19:16 -!- tromp has joined.
19:24:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:50:24 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:50:52 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:52:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50945&oldid=50944 * Douira * (+4) time and date example
19:53:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
20:11:49 -!- kiki` has joined.
20:17:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:22:48 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
20:24:34 -!- erkin has joined.
20:24:49 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:36:29 <HackEgo> 1/2:laver table//A laver table is a type of Welsh furniture primarily used for eating seaweed. \ umlaut//Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable. \ horn//Horn is the reduction system behind Prolog, and also the magical body part growi
20:36:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:ng on the head of unicorns. \ utumno//Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. \ cpressey//cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse.
20:37:23 <shachaf> Now that I know b_jonas's strategy for making wisdom entries, I don't feel bad about removing them.
20:44:48 <int-e> Hmm, "silmarils" may be a bit too obvious?
20:46:29 <int-e> Cf. The Silmarillion. (Which I started reading once and don't intend to ever finish.)
20:46:50 <shachaf> What do you mean is obvious?
20:47:00 <int-e> The connection to Tolkien.
20:47:15 <erkin> Definitely obvious.
20:47:23 <int-e> But I see now that it's even literally the first sentence on http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Utumno.
20:47:47 <erkin> The neo prog band of '80s took a slightly more hidden way of picking the name of Marillion
20:48:05 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: I'm generally bad with names... :P
20:48:13 <shachaf> Morgoth was pretty obvious. I don't think I'd heard of Utumno.
20:49:01 <shachaf> I know about Morgoth from having started reading the Silmarillion once.
20:49:20 <erkin> I managed to find a pretty obscure LoTR reference as my band's name.
20:49:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:49:57 <erkin> The red mountains reputed to be on the far east of Rhûn, where the first elves were born in the first age.
20:50:09 <erkin> Plus it sounds cool.
20:50:10 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, must've got far enough if he was morgoth rather than melkor
20:50:19 <int-e> (Tolkien makes names much harder than necessary because anyone of importance seems to have at least three of them.)
20:50:37 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, well, I don't remember where I remember the name from.
20:51:16 <shachaf> http://www.ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm has it in the first paragraph of the foreword.
20:51:35 <shachaf> But I probably wouldn't have read that.
20:52:13 <shachaf> But it looks like it happens pretty early on?
20:54:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i quite liked reading the silmarillion on the whole because unlike lotr the text does not feel the need to describe every fucking rock in every fucking valley that the characters pass through
20:55:05 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
20:58:32 -!- tromp has joined.
21:02:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:13:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:15:52 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:19:05 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: but all those descriptions allowed people to reconstruct the geology after the fact
21:19:44 <Phantom_Hoover> > largest forests on the continent directly in a rain shadow
21:19:47 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:43: error: parse error on input ‘in’
21:19:53 <\oren\> I have a book called "atlas of middle earth" that describes this in detail
21:19:55 -!- tromp has joined.
21:20:03 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: you said "every rock" so "geology" actually makes sense.
21:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> my point is that tolkien didn't know shit about those details when he wrote the book
21:20:59 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:21:55 <\oren\> apparently he was ok at geology actually, he just sucked at climatology
21:24:02 <\oren\> which means that although his descriptions of e.g. the landforms resulting from glaciers and what rocks they are made of is ok
21:24:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:24:34 <\oren\> his mountains are way too snowy way too far south
21:24:55 <int-e> . o O ( How about: "Few authors have ever been wrong in as excruciating detail as Tolkien." )
21:25:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:26:20 -!- augur has joined.
21:32:06 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:32:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:34:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:34:25 -!- `^_^v has joined.
21:37:45 <Zarutian> well, it depends. If the mountains are high enough but low enough that their rain shadows dont start until a bit after the peak on the dry side. But that means that there is one hell of a foggy landscape on their other side.
21:46:05 <\oren\> Zarutian: they are called "the misty mountians"
21:49:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:52:55 -!- krok_ has joined.
21:56:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:59:56 -!- heroux_ has joined.
22:00:05 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:00:27 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux.
22:02:52 -!- `^_^v has joined.
22:10:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:10:56 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:15:41 -!- `^_^v has joined.
22:17:46 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:20:08 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:20:48 -!- tromp has joined.
22:25:30 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:31:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:37:14 -!- idris-bot has joined.
22:43:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:45:37 -!- dingbat has joined.
23:03:35 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
23:04:26 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:07:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:08:46 -!- boily has joined.
23:09:02 -!- bigcake has joined.
23:09:48 <HackEgo> bigcake: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:21:13 <int-e> hmm, "Duet" is surprisingly addictive
23:22:23 <int-e> (for a game that needs only two keys/buttons to be played)
23:26:08 <boily> int-ello. is that the thing with the spinning bar?
23:28:20 <int-e> two dots (red and blue), moving bars (initially white but can be "painted" by crashing into them... I gather that this is not the objective of the game), some spinning.
23:29:11 <shachaf> int-e: But it can't be played in a web browser?
23:29:38 <boily> I now remember having beaten it on my phone. very nice level design, but the pseudo-psychological statements between them irked me.
23:31:13 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:32:15 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/duet.jpg
23:32:45 <int-e> shachaf: I don't know. I got it as part of a humble bundle, but only actually installed it last weekend
23:33:14 <int-e> (no rotating bars in the screenshot, hmm)
23:34:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:35:08 <int-e> here we go http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/duet2.jpg
23:37:33 -!- LKoen has joined.
23:38:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:44:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
23:47:56 <zzo38> I added the support for "geometry list" into SDLTERM, and fixed a few mistakes I had made, and now I have made an example of how to draw circles with OpenGL with it, by using a geometry list, vertex program, and fragment program. (It is necessary to use a vertex program to access the coordinates before they are transformed, because the input of the fragment program are transformed coordinates.) Do you like this? http://sprunge.us/hgFd
23:48:43 <zzo38> If you have suggestions for changes to the API, or complaints about it, then you can please to mention it.
23:51:27 -!- tromp has joined.
23:52:57 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:53:09 -!- tromp has joined.
23:54:05 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:55:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: METHANE CHICKEN).
23:55:21 -!- `_^gk`_^1wm`_^ has joined.
23:55:57 -!- `_^gk`_^1wm`_^ has quit (K-Lined).
00:00:48 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:03:29 <HackEgo> 2 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
00:13:19 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:18:14 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
00:20:06 -!- idris-bot has joined.
00:20:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit).
00:26:07 <\oren\> http://img.ctrlv.in/img/17/02/14/58a24d5ede43b.jpg
00:28:58 -!- idris-bot has joined.
00:29:15 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit).
00:33:16 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:37:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:38:21 -!- tromp has joined.
00:45:37 -!- heroux has joined.
01:02:49 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:06:47 -!- bigcake has joined.
01:23:22 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:45:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
01:50:27 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
01:56:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:29:30 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
02:30:00 <\oren\> oerjan: "dank" is a common adjective used to describe me mes
02:47:32 <quintopia> we definitely need to switch to zesty
02:48:18 -!- adu has joined.
03:49:11 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:29:33 -!- Mayoi has joined.
04:30:48 -!- erkin has quit (Disconnected by services).
04:30:52 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin.
04:31:26 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
04:40:13 -!- shikhin has changed nick to zgrepi.
04:40:22 -!- zgrepi has changed nick to shikhin.
04:40:25 -!- bigcake has joined.
04:57:55 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:09:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:11:22 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:11:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
05:22:11 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:51:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:59:12 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:08:43 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
06:23:06 -!- augur has joined.
06:23:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
06:29:13 <kmc> having progressed to dank memes we are only steps away from Kardashev level II
06:37:10 <hppavilion1> TIL Peer Gynt is a real fictional character, not just made up for `? peer
06:43:19 -!- atehwa has joined.
07:14:53 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:51:38 <rdococ> esoteric map projections?
07:56:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:59:23 -!- augur has joined.
07:59:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:03:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:19:58 -!- sirnaysayer has changed nick to snuchibuchi.
08:25:23 -!- augur has joined.
08:42:48 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
08:43:11 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:48:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
08:51:02 -!- pikhq has joined.
09:48:20 <b_jonas> int-e: I think I also have an entry for his second dungeon
09:48:53 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm sure shachaf will be thrilled to hear about it.
09:48:57 <HackEgo> angband:Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. \ Binary file reflection matches
09:50:26 <int-e> `learn_append reflection//Does this shatter the mirror?
09:50:26 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/reflection//doe: Not a directory. \ /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/reflection//doe: Not a directory \ Learned 'reflection//doe': cat: wisdom/reflection//doe: Not a directory
09:51:11 <int-e> `learn_append reflection Does this shatter the mirror?
09:51:14 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/reflection: Permission denied \ Learned 'reflection': perl.-i.-p.-e.s/\n/ /.wisdom/reflection.
09:51:56 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
09:52:30 <int-e> `` ls -la wisdom/reflection
09:52:31 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Feb 14 09:51 wisdom/reflection -> /proc/self/cmdline
09:54:38 <b_jonas> `` grep -li dun\[g]eon wisdom/*
09:54:40 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/angband
09:54:47 <int-e> so apparently perl -i does not follow the symlink and instead overwrites the file, interesting.
09:54:50 <b_jonas> `` grep -li dun\[g]eon wisdom/* 2>&1
09:54:51 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ wisdom/angband \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
09:54:57 <b_jonas> `` grep -li dun\[g]eon wisdom/* 2>/dev/null
09:55:09 <b_jonas> wait, what happened to utumno?
09:55:36 <b_jonas> that one wasn't so bad, was it?
09:56:49 <b_jonas> I'll have to put these notes to somewhere else than wisdoms
10:21:44 <b_jonas> Good news: I bought a headphone for my mobile phone that has a bulit-in analog volume control. Most headphones either don't have a volume control, or have one that actually only asks the mobile phone to change the volume, which doesn't let me change volume fine grained enough.
10:26:37 <b_jonas> As in: gives sound to my ears in telephone, media player, and radio modes, and the analog volume control dial lets me change the volume indeed.
10:27:52 <b_jonas> How long it will last is anyone's guess. The speed these get amortized because the wires are bent, I should probably order the next copy in the weekend unless I find a bug in this one.
10:40:18 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
10:42:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
11:03:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:18:29 <Taneb> I cannot see how to do this assignment question
11:18:40 <Taneb> (prove that the product of two algebraic groups is an algebraic group)
11:26:04 -!- boily has joined.
11:34:24 <HackEgo> flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top.
11:44:29 -!- erkin has joined.
12:10:26 -!- snuchibuchi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:19:00 <HackEgo> hackego//HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
12:19:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GALLERY CHICKEN).
12:34:07 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
12:34:25 <HackEgo> whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000
12:48:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:52:48 -!- Zarutian has joined.
12:53:33 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:53:50 -!- Zarutian has joined.
12:54:00 -!- Zarutian has quit (Client Quit).
13:07:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:35:07 -!- furozo has joined.
13:58:53 -!- furozo has left.
14:18:50 -!- bigcake has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:41:56 -!- kiki` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:43:43 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
14:43:43 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
14:43:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
14:44:19 -!- kiki` has joined.
14:49:02 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
14:49:19 -!- ocharles has joined.
14:50:25 -!- Lymia has joined.
15:00:48 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:02:45 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:15:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:17:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:18:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:32:09 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:33:23 -!- pledis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:33:32 -!- pledis has joined.
16:06:52 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:10:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
16:22:04 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> `` grep -li dun\[g]eon wisdom/* <-- grwp can be used with `` too and then you don't get all those directory errors hth
16:23:17 <HackEgo> 196) <oklopol> ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid
16:23:18 <HackEgo> ------------------------ \ 1 pk All parmesan, peeled, chopped \ 1 tb Sugar \ 1 Egg \ 1/2 c Dry white wine \ 1 ts Salt \ 2 ts Sesame seeds \ 2 c Oil for date \ 4 c Plunces calories well \ 1 ts Baking powder \ 2 tb Ground almonds \ 8 oz Canned shredded corn \ \ Mix together the flour, sugar, the baking dish, garlic, shortening, and b
16:23:31 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
16:24:21 <b_jonas> that looks qutie consistant
16:24:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:24:35 <b_jonas> though I don't know what Plunces calories well means
16:24:55 <HackEgo> wl. Stir well. \ \ Cool all speed and almost section of its of the black peppers dish. Serve \ immediately on a platter. Set aside. Combine peachio and crushed apples. Add salt. \ \ Heat chocolate chips; cut out to one liquid of a large skillet. \ \ Remove from the oven to make a bowl of a spoon in egg white. Bake until the \ browned cru
16:25:29 <b_jonas> What's this obsession of this cookbook with skillets?
16:27:11 <oerjan> you need a skillet to kill it ===\__/
16:27:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:28:40 -!- heroux has joined.
16:34:49 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host).
16:34:49 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
16:35:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
16:35:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:36:01 -!- Bowserinator has left.
16:41:21 <int-e> ____) ,-/',-/` <-- sled with dogs
16:47:42 -!- augur has joined.
16:59:57 <Phantom_Hoover> "Efficiently implementing Eodermdrome is impaired by the fact that selecting match graphs requires an implementation of the subgraph isomorphism problem, which is NP-complete in its base case."
17:00:20 <Phantom_Hoover> that's pretty misleading given that ullman's algorithm is polynomial in the eodermdrome use-case
17:06:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:13:12 <rdococ> would you be interested in seeing an esoteric language purely based on transistors and pull resistors?
17:13:30 <rdococ> it's even more basic than NOR :P
17:20:06 <rdococ> well, if I don't mess it up like usual
17:21:07 <rdococ> I'm planning on four functions: P-transistor, N-transistor, and a pull resistor which can pull a high impendance value to true or false
17:21:26 <rdococ> I'm naming them TP, TN, RT and RF respectively
17:21:41 <rdococ> haven't figured out the rest
17:32:04 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
17:34:40 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
17:37:03 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:40:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:44:41 <rdococ> should my language have variables or should every program be an expression?
17:47:54 <rdococ> whadya think Phantom_Hoover?
17:48:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:49:31 -!- augur_ has joined.
17:53:20 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:59:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
18:00:38 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined.
18:00:49 -!- Sprocklem_ has quit (Client Quit).
18:00:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit).
18:01:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
18:03:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:04:48 <\oren\> rdococ: you need some way to have loops in the circuit graph
18:05:05 <\oren\> that implies some sort of label or variable-like thing
18:09:14 <rdococ> is that for turing completeness or do you mean like the physical shape of a circuit?
18:09:49 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, i mean the 'language' here is just for circuit specification right
18:10:37 <Phantom_Hoover> put them in though b/c esolangs trying to be 'difficult' by leaving out convenience features is boring
18:11:40 <rdococ> I keep being pinged but have no idea what channel
18:13:53 <rdococ> hm. I need a label for the high impendance state
18:16:46 <rdococ> argh this is driving me crazy
18:21:47 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
18:25:33 <rdococ> I'm thinking about using recursion for loops...
18:25:47 <rdococ> also, types like numbers and stuff, how about them?
18:37:38 <rdococ> functions would be integrated circuit
18:46:10 <\oren\> well a number would be an array of bits/wires right
18:47:09 <rdococ> I'm actually implementing a 2 bit adder as an exaple
18:47:36 <rdococ> I have tables but only so circuits can have multiple outputs
18:52:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:53:12 <\oren\> https://arxiv.org/abs/1002.2284v2
18:53:28 <\oren\> markets are efficient IFF P=NP
18:55:03 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:55:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:56:46 <int-e> how close is that from deriving a contradiction from the premise?
18:56:59 <int-e> hmm, close ... to.
18:57:46 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:58:55 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:02:50 <int-e> never mind, that is just a pile of bullshit.
19:04:27 <int-e> has anybody bothered to find a mistake in https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.09562 yet?
19:16:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:25:10 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:26:15 <rdococ> I guess I'll have a simple while and if construct along with functions called circuits
19:27:06 <rdococ> whadya think, should functions be first-class?
19:38:13 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjgHHmFQKmU
19:41:39 <int-e> "Banks Look to Cellphones to Replace A.T.M. Cards" WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?
19:43:28 -!- PlatinumDotEXE has joined.
19:43:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Transistor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50946 * Rdococ * (+3228) hi
19:44:09 <int-e> I mean, you're just replacing a hardened smartcard with limited but fairly well understood capabilities by a Turing complete device riddled with malware.
19:45:40 <rdococ> I think the one small advantage here is compactness, but even that's a disadvantage and that's if you don't count malware - what if you lose your cellphone or get it stolen
19:46:13 <rdococ> I would much rather have multiple cards for different things
19:49:13 <int-e> apparently the bank's incentive is lower transaction times... people can prepare the atm interaction on their phone in advance (one scenario described involves the customer going to the ATM with a QR code displayed on the phone)
19:49:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Transistor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50947&oldid=50946 * Rdococ * (+36) /* Adders */ 11 + 1 = 100 lol oops
19:50:24 <int-e> (oh and I guess that since the bank doesn't own the phone it'll reduce their expenses for reissuing cards... people won't expect their banks to buy them a new phone)
19:50:55 <\oren\> if they do that I'll just use cash for everything and go to the teller for everything
19:51:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:51:13 <rdococ> it's always about money, but I guess they need it to survive
19:51:32 <rdococ> this world is much like nature, there's an economical food cycle
19:52:16 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:53:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:57:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50948&oldid=50610 * Rdococ * (+146) user page says hi
20:04:25 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:04:57 <\oren\> wait, since when is Pew die pie a nazi and not just a moron swede gamer?
20:05:20 <pikhq> Since August, apparently, he went off the deep end into antisemitism.
20:06:22 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:06:43 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:08:58 <\oren\> "The Daily Stormer, which is described as the ‘top hate site in America’ by the Southern Poverty Law Centre, even went as far as to change its slogan to ‘The world’s #1 PewDiePie fansite’."
20:09:11 <\oren\> WUT. How is 2017 even real
20:09:29 <\oren\> like wut the fuck is even
20:09:30 <Taneb> \oren\, the world ended like over 4 years ago now
20:12:03 <\oren\> anyway, I thought in sweden they exiled the nazis to lappland
20:16:18 <olsner> like most of europe we put them in parliament instead
20:16:20 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:18:00 <\oren\> well I like jacksepticeye better anyway
20:18:02 <\oren\> hopefully he's not as fashy
20:18:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:25:16 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
20:29:14 -!- LKoen has joined.
20:33:03 <\oren\> wait, my font doesn't have 猫?
20:33:17 <HackEgo> U+732B CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B \ UTF-8: e7 8c ab UTF-16BE: 732b Decimal: 猫 \ 猫 (猫) \ Uppercase: U+732B \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
20:33:40 -!- PlatinumDotEXE has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com).
20:37:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:37:53 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:38:59 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:56:14 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Changing host).
20:56:14 -!- wlp1s1 has joined.
20:58:48 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:10:46 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:12:23 -!- augur has joined.
21:35:25 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:40:13 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:48:08 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:50:45 <Zarutian> pikhq: re antisemitism: I have heard it is often confused with antizionism. The former is against an Abrahamic faith/religion the latter is against certain group of nostalgic people that wants to rebuild a city that never actually was on land they dont own but have the means to buy.
22:00:11 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:00:36 <Zarutian> \oren\: re nazi or equiv in parliament: it has been well known for a long while that xD is basically consist(ed|s) mostly of persons suspectable to such memeplexes.
22:02:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:02:43 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
22:30:39 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:32:33 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit).
22:37:06 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:41:24 -!- Lymee has joined.
22:41:26 -!- ^v^v has joined.
22:41:59 -!- Lord_of_- has joined.
22:42:20 -!- atriq has joined.
22:42:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:50 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:50 -!- ^v has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:51 -!- lynn has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:51 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:51 -!- bibibi has quit (*.net *.split).
22:42:52 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Lymia.
22:42:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:45:01 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb.
22:46:35 -!- ^v^v has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:35 -!- Lord_of_- has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:35 -!- doesthiswork has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- kragniz has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- viznut_ has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- alercah has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- L3viathan has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- hydraz has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:36 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split).
22:46:49 -!- ^v has joined.
22:46:56 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
22:46:56 -!- kragniz has joined.
22:47:18 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:47:45 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
22:47:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
22:48:07 -!- hydraz has joined.
22:48:07 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host).
22:48:07 -!- hydraz has joined.
22:49:23 -!- sparr has joined.
22:52:12 -!- alercah has joined.
22:52:12 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
22:52:12 -!- erdic has joined.
22:52:12 -!- viznut_ has joined.
22:52:12 -!- L3viathan has joined.
23:03:22 -!- boily has joined.
23:04:17 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:06:19 <HackEgo> not found//not found? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:06:34 <fungot> boily: i think we should add a captcha somewhere in that. because i'm specializing in natural language processing. forward error correction.
23:06:46 <boily> fungot: stop being sentient.
23:06:46 <fungot> boily: i think so. my scheme skills are obviously rusty: ( case s ( ( 1 2 3 4))) result form body)
23:12:22 <boily> hellochafungot. mustard for pooches: http://mojopet.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/m/u/muttstard.jpg
23:12:23 <fungot> boily: that would have a var called add1 in the user-env, and the making it more public now was to get the from its local environment vs. sequencing.)
23:19:00 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSMaB_Fzks0
23:19:49 <boily> he\\oren\! a very good album.
23:20:07 <boily> discovering vapourwave and mallsoft?
23:21:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:25:20 <boily> trick shot around a pooch: https://youtu.be/b3sOOBicyDY
23:31:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:41:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:48:45 <HackEgo> ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again.
23:49:32 <boily> fifth world haskell.
23:49:35 <HackEgo> b//B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether.
23:51:09 <HackEgo> a:A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. \ Å:Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. \ b:B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether. \ bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation
23:51:20 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:51:52 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:52:18 -!- tromp has joined.
23:57:12 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:05:27 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
00:15:07 -!- dalnet has joined.
00:15:21 <HackEgo> 2/3:ox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, and villages in Norway. Taneb invented it. \ nitia:nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the un
00:15:40 <HackEgo> 3/3:iverse, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:15:40 <shachaf> Maybe `spam should be called `n
00:16:03 <HackEgo> 9851:2016-12-03 <shachäf> ` ln -s spam bin/n
00:16:26 <APic> `WHAT YOU SAY !!
00:16:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: WHAT: not found
00:16:30 <APic> `what me worry?
00:16:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: what: not found
00:16:34 <APic> `which me worry?
00:16:54 <oerjan> excellent idea. although `spam does give a certain appearance of self-awareness.
00:17:22 <boily> quintopia: *munch*
00:17:23 <shachaf> I believe that was the intent.
00:17:49 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s.cumin, ..
00:17:50 <boily> I think you axed cumin.
00:17:51 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:18:38 <oerjan> boily: it was obviously too naughty, despite all efforts.
00:18:56 <shachaf> oerjan: i think that was all in your head hth
00:19:16 <oerjan> all naughtiness is in the mind
00:19:57 <oerjan> . o O ( did Taneb invent Scunthorpe )
00:20:30 <boily> if he did, it would be problematic.
00:21:09 <HackEgo> Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it.
00:23:42 <HackEgo> ` \ `? \ `? `? \ `1 \ `2 \ `5 \ `learn \ `mk \ `revert \ `spam \ `words
00:24:16 <HackEgo> ` \ `1 \ `2 \ `5 \ hoag \ learn \ `learn \ mk \ quine \ `revert \ sled \ slwd \ `spam \ unlambda
00:25:18 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
00:25:21 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
00:25:23 <HackEgo> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
00:25:34 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; mv sled \`sled; mv slwd \`slwd; mv hoag \`hoag
00:26:00 <HackEgo> cat: bin/4: No such file or directory
00:26:10 <shachaf> I thought `4 was the `2 of `5
00:26:12 -!- dalnet has left.
00:26:21 <HackEgo> `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
00:26:33 <b_jonas> shachaf: what's with dalnet?
00:26:43 <shachaf> Not sure. oerjan's nemesis?
00:28:25 <HackEgo> Everything's better with `mk.
00:29:14 <shachaf> I propose that ("`"++) be a transformation made by `?, like (++"s")
00:29:19 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; mv mk mk_; mv mk\' mk; mv mk_ mk\'
00:29:21 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `mk\'': No such file or directory
00:29:24 <shachaf> Then we can have ambiguity and everything can be good.
00:29:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/mk wisdom/mk'//wisdom/mk wisdom/mk': no such file in rev d523eedf694c
00:30:13 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; mv mk mk_; mv \`mk mk; mv mk_ \`mk
00:30:23 <HackEgo> Everything's better with `mk.
00:30:36 <HackEgo> `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
00:31:16 <oerjan> shachaf: technically `? _removes_ s, not adds it
00:32:42 -!- lynn has joined.
00:34:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wheatwizard * New user account
00:36:34 <oerjan> the trouble is that we get an escalating number of files to try. e.g. if someone does `? culprits, it needs to check culprits, culprit, `culprits and possibly `culprit.
00:37:18 <oerjan> i guess we could drop the last, it doesn't really make sense to drop plurals off command names.
00:40:50 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
00:41:06 <oerjan> that doesn't do any s munging, at least
00:41:28 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
00:42:00 <HackEgo> Everything's better with `mk.
00:42:13 <oerjan> hm i guess it shouldn't be that hard
00:42:22 <HackEgo> 2/2: else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi | rnooooooodl
00:42:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
00:43:45 <oerjan> which should take precedence, removing s or adding ` ? :P
00:44:25 <b_jonas> I propose that wisdomes about commands don't have a leading backtick, because some commands in bin are only useful from command line rather than plain backtick, and some offer extra functionality from command-line (eg. grwp -l something), so it's hard to guess which commands should be wised with a backtick.
00:44:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50949&oldid=50922 * Wheatwizard * (+521) /* Introductions */
00:44:46 <shachaf> oerjan: You should support other English plurals.
00:44:51 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -name "`*"
00:44:52 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
00:44:58 <b_jonas> ``` find wisdom -name "\`*"
00:44:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/` \ wisdom/`revert \ wisdom/`2 \ wisdom/`1 \ wisdom/`? `? \ wisdom/`sled \ wisdom/`learn \ wisdom/`? \ wisdom/`hoag \ wisdom/`slwd \ wisdom/`spam \ wisdom/`words \ wisdom/`mk \ wisdom/`5
00:44:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50950&oldid=49734 * Wheatwizard * (+3626) I added a Quine to the sample programs
00:45:20 <oerjan> b_jonas: in fact i just corrected some by prepending `
00:45:30 <HackEgo> `revert now works fine. Yay fizzie!
00:47:19 <shachaf> `sled bin/?//s!¯\\(°_o)/¯!no such entry!
00:47:21 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo
00:47:36 <shachaf> That thing was messing up my terminal.
00:48:05 <oerjan> we _could_ remove the ZWSP if you insist.
00:48:08 <HackEgo> `? \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ ?? \ backward \ bracket \ chaos \ fnord \ hax0r \ huh \ misspellings of croissant \ mojibake \ not found \ ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ precious \ reflection \ ruddy
00:48:10 * boily chugs raw Cholula from the bottle to see if it has a taste
00:48:49 <oerjan> anyway, you two have successfully demotivated me.
00:48:54 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
00:48:58 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
00:49:02 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hug: not found
00:49:44 <oerjan> b_jonas: after my recent changes, i think (hope) that the command wisdoms beginning with ` are those _mostly_ intended for ` use.
00:50:19 <oerjan> there's one other, i think.
00:50:25 <HackEgo> sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
00:50:41 <oerjan> sport is _not_ useful with plain `, as it requires input.
00:51:04 <HackEgo> spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
00:51:08 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
00:51:38 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
00:52:32 <oerjan> `fetch is described in `help. i guess it could have its own entry.
00:52:34 <shachaf> `` fetch 'http://www.oerjan.no/'
00:52:35 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: fetch: command not found
00:52:52 -!- erkin has joined.
00:52:55 <shachaf> so that's what they meant about making fetch happen
00:53:05 <b_jonas> does fetch let you specify an output filename?
00:53:06 <oerjan> i'm not sure if oerjan.no exists, but if it does it's not my site.
00:53:53 <shachaf> @tell fizzie to make fetch accept an output filename twh
00:54:04 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's a builtin, so we cannot change it. and i think it's limited on purpose so that it's not useful for arbitrary web access.
00:54:31 <HackEgo> file:///etc/passwd: Unsupported scheme `file'.
00:54:35 <shachaf> Accepting an output filename wouldn't affect that.
00:54:43 <HackEgo> FILE:///etc/passwd: Unsupported scheme `FILE'.
00:54:44 <oerjan> well, Gregor can. and fizzie if he dares to make local changes to HackEgo.
00:54:48 <shachaf> But it would let you fetch files into tmp/
00:55:19 <b_jonas> or make a directory specifically for downloads
00:55:34 <oerjan> less noisy. although need to be careful about the `` mv trap.
00:55:46 <HackEgo> cat: bin/mv: No such file or directory
00:55:55 <shachaf> You could make a special mv that avoids the trap.
00:56:15 <b_jonas> what mv trap? the one that breaks revert?
00:56:20 <shachaf> `` hg status -i tmp/spline
00:56:27 <HackEgo> I tmp/8 \ I tmp/metar \ I tmp/pad.1 \ I tmp/pad.1 print 1+! \ I tmp/pad.print 1+! \ I tmp/spline \ I tmp/spout
00:57:07 <oerjan> shachaf: hm, i think even if `fetch saved in tmp/, it should still touch the repository for file history purposes.
00:58:50 <shachaf> b_jonas: This is the trap:
00:59:07 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/testing testing: No such file or directory
00:59:19 <shachaf> `` cat tmp/testing testing
00:59:19 <HackEgo> cat: testing: No such file or directory \ hi
00:59:30 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/testing': No such file or directory
00:59:33 <shachaf> `` cat tmp/testing testing
00:59:34 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/testing: No such file or directory \ cat: testing: No such file or directory
01:00:22 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/testing: No such file or directory
01:00:26 <HackEgo> cat: testing: No such file or directory
01:01:18 <oerjan> <shachaf> There's a ZWSP? <-- yes, it was added back when to avoid triggering myndzi with the °_o face
01:02:17 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:02:27 <HackEgo> 0000000: 626c 6168 3f20 c2af 5c28 c2b0 e280 8b5f blah? ..\(....._ \ 0000010: 6f29 2fc2 af0a o)/...
01:02:41 -!- erkin has joined.
01:02:45 <HackEgo> 1/1:0000000: 626c 6168 3f20 c2af 5c28 c2b0 e280 8b5f blah? ..\(....._ \ 0000010: 6f29 2fc2 af0a o)/...
01:08:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Miniflak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50951 * Wheatwizard * (+825) Created page with "'''Miniflak''' is the smallest known Turing complete sublanguage of [[Brain-Flak]]. All valid Miniflak programs are also valid Brian-Flak programs, however not all Brain-Flak..."
01:08:52 <oerjan> b_jonas: whenever a command changes a file in the repository, HackEgo reruns it with locking, and makes sure to put all the files in pristine state first. however, tmp/ is not tracked, so since the first run removed the file there, it simply disappears, and the second run fails.
01:09:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50952&oldid=50932 * Wheatwizard * (+15) /* M */ Added [[Miniflak]]
01:10:20 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:10:53 -!- erkin has joined.
01:12:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50953&oldid=50950 * Wheatwizard * (+99) Clean-up
01:16:41 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//3itopic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed "s/^``//")
01:16:43 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed "s/^``//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1"
01:17:17 <oerjan> `` echo "``test" | sed "s/^``//"
01:17:30 <oerjan> `` echo "`test" | sed "s/^``//"
01:17:30 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:17:59 <oerjan> `` echo '`test' | sed 's/^``//'
01:18:06 <oerjan> `` echo '``test' | sed 's/^``//'
01:19:10 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//3itopic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//')
01:19:12 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1"
01:20:49 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//4,$s/topic1/topic2/;9ielif [ -e "$topic1" ];
01:20:51 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \
01:21:52 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//4,$s/topic1/topic2/;10i elif [ -e "$topic1" ];
01:21:54 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \
01:22:10 <oerjan> *sigh* it strips space
01:23:08 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//10s/^/ /;11ithen cat "$topic1";
01:23:10 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1"
01:23:22 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1"
01:23:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50954&oldid=50953 * Wheatwizard * (+166) Updated the Sample code
01:23:47 <HackEgo> `sled <filename>//<sed script>
01:23:53 <HackEgo> `sled <filename>//<sed script>
01:24:06 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 31 Feb 15 00:25 wisdom/`sled
01:25:25 <HackEgo> ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼
01:26:09 <HackEgo> case//English has two cases, upper and lower. Upper case agrees with the verb in person and number.
01:28:03 <oerjan> `learn The `ngevd command hasn't been invented yet, but still manages to prevent bugs.
01:28:05 <HackEgo> Learned '`ngevd': The `ngevd command hasn't been invented yet, but still manages to prevent bugs.
01:28:13 <HackEgo> The `ngevd command hasn't been invented yet, but still manages to prevent bugs.
01:28:28 <oerjan> (seemed simpler than fixing `?)
01:29:41 <oerjan> b_jonas: so now it hardly matters if commands are put in wisdom with ` or not.
01:32:13 <HackEgo> The `ngevd command hasn't been invented yet, but still manages to prevent bugs.
01:32:29 <oerjan> although you get that feature, i guess
01:34:42 <\oren\> hooray, lifters! https://youtu.be/88YFbNOpIe0
01:36:18 <zgrep> `` ls bin | shuf -n10
01:36:19 <HackEgo> translatefromto \ ؟ \ pung \ welcöme \ units \ 1492 \ lowercase \ random-card \ ^.^ \ ctof
01:36:31 <zgrep> `url bin/translatefromto
01:36:32 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/translatefromto
01:37:08 <oerjan> sadly, both HackEgo's web access and the google api rotted.
01:38:47 <zgrep> Well, err, I made a thing that sort-of steals from Google Translate, based off of some of the things that other people reverse engineered about how it talks to Google. So if HackEgo ever gets web access, it's a possibility.
01:41:02 <zgrep> It's currently being used by another bot for Google translate.
01:41:17 <HackEgo> .ssentaerg ot xiferp eht si `
01:41:31 <HackEgo> Farbog Explorer \ 2W \ Creature -- Human Scout \ 2/3 \ Swampwalk (This creature can't be blocked as long as defending player controls a Swamp.) \ AVR-C
01:41:43 -!- dingbat has joined.
01:42:23 <oerjan> it doesn't take commandline args
01:42:34 <zgrep> `` url `which lowercase`
01:42:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/lowercase
01:42:48 <zgrep> `` echo 'TÉST' | lowercase
01:42:54 <oerjan> it's only used as a subroutine pipe by `? and the like.
01:43:02 <zgrep> I am disappointed in this lowercasing.
01:43:33 <oerjan> zgrep: it got sort of messed up when someone made different wisdoms that _should_ be identical modulo case.
01:43:44 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:43:46 <HackEgo> å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
01:44:01 <oerjan> so now we can't do it the logical way.
01:44:32 <oerjan> ...mind you, if the only entry like that is a lampshade about it...
01:44:50 <HackEgo> U+1F6CB COUCH AND LAMP \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9b 8b UTF-16BE: d83ddecb Decimal: 🛋 \ 🛋 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
01:44:58 <zgrep> That's... not what I was expecting.
01:45:20 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls *Æ* *Ø* *Å* *æ* *ø* *å*
01:45:24 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access *Æ*: No such file or directory \ å \ Å \ blæg \ bø \ døsthiswork \ døsthiswørk \ kulør \ møøse \ nø \ nød \ ø \ Ø \ øl \ ørjan
01:45:43 <zgrep> `` python -c 'print("TÉST".lower())'
01:45:55 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
01:46:08 <HackEgo> cat: wisdow/ø: No such file or directory
01:46:09 <HackEgo> cat: wisdow/Ø: No such file or directory
01:46:12 <HackEgo> Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug.
01:46:33 <oerjan> ok, so that doesn't _really_ count either
01:46:36 <zgrep> Hm. I don't think tomfoolery lowercases anything.
01:46:44 <zgrep> `tomfoolery random number
01:46:46 <zgrep> `tomfoolery random NUMBER
01:47:10 <zgrep> Oh God. All my expectations of monospace font... ruined.
01:47:53 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls -1 | grep '[^ A-Za-z]'
01:47:54 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.
01:48:06 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | grep '[^ A-Za-z]'
01:48:07 <HackEgo> â` \ `? \ `? `? \ ^ \ _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ
ÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌ
ͨÌÌ´Í \ ¯\_(ã)_ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ ã \ ⨠\ ê® \ ⥠\ â \ â¾_ \ ð \ ð \ ð \ áá¿ \ ÌÌÍÌÌÌͦÌÍͪÍ̼̾ͦͨÍ
ÍÍÌ®Í̸̳Ì̤ÌÌ¯ÌªÌ¸ÌªÌ±Ì£Ì ÌºÌ¹ÍÌ©ÌÍÍÍÍÌÍ̪̮ÌÌÌ£ÍÌªÍ Í¢Í¢Ò̴̢_Ì¿ÌÍ£ÌͣͪÍÍÌ
01:48:11 <zgrep> `` cat `which tomfoolery`
01:48:12 <HackEgo> if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "I have nothing to tell you.";fi;f="tmflry/$(echo "$1" | lowercase)";if [ -h "$f" ];then exec tomfoolery `readlink "$f" | sed 's/^tmflry\///'`;fi;if [ -x "$f" ];then exec bash "$f";fi;if [ -r "$f" ];then exec cat "$f";fi;echo "I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking."
01:48:27 <zgrep> Oh, case insensitive filesystem?
01:48:28 <oerjan> hard to say if there's anything alphabetical there...
01:48:44 <zgrep> Missed the pipe to lowercase.
01:48:51 <zgrep> I wrote this, and I forgot what I did. ._.
01:49:38 <zgrep> Ooh. I could be evil, and make two tomfoolery thingies symlink to each other, probably...
01:49:58 <HackEgo> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
01:50:10 <HackEgo> ^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator.
01:50:29 <zgrep> `cp wisdom/^ tmflry/^
01:50:30 <HackEgo> cp: missing destination file operand after `wisdom/^ tmflry/^' \ Try `cp --help' for more information.
01:50:34 <zgrep> `` cp wisdom/^ tmflry/^
01:50:41 <HackEgo> ^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator.
01:51:11 <oerjan> zgrep: i vaguely recall you cannot make symlink cycles.
01:53:00 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | grep '[^ A-Za-z]' | grep '[A-Za-z]'
01:53:01 <HackEgo> _46bit \ 4chan \ 4rn4 \ 6 random numbers \ ais523 \ alg. ii \ apt-get \ banach-tarski \ beethoven's ninth symphony \ bezout's theorem \ bézout's theorem \ b_jonas \ b_jonas can't spell \ blu-ray \ brainf**k \ c# \ c++ \ can't \ category-helpdesk \ =@ccc \ co-np \ curry's paradox \ d-module \ dynamic-unwind \ dynamic-wind \ e-module \ #esoteric \ #
01:53:07 <zgrep> Works on my OS X laptop.
01:53:30 <oerjan> gah that of course _did_ show a lot of nicks.
01:53:39 <zgrep> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/jWaNk7f6/
01:53:58 <boily> `? b_jonas can't spell
01:53:59 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, mysterious, Odyssey, myopia, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, existence, heard, appropriate; and confuses these sets of words: then, than; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute, delate; contiguous, continuous.
01:54:09 <boily> . o O ( amortized... )
01:55:19 <HackEgo> You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
01:55:23 <HackEgo> You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
01:55:53 <zgrep> `learn Treats are tasty.
01:55:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'treat': Treats are tasty.
01:56:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: botsmack: not found
01:57:25 <zgrep> `` echo 'botsnack | rev' >> bin/botsmack
01:57:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bot: not found
01:57:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/botsmack: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/botsmack: cannot execute: Permission denied
01:57:37 <zgrep> `` chmod +x bin/botsmack
01:58:29 <HackEgo> Everything's better with `mk.
01:58:33 <HackEgo> `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
01:58:59 <zgrep> I'll probably forget it exists soon™.
01:59:22 <b_jonas> HackEgo: takes a single hexit I think
02:00:10 <b_jonas> ``` for x in {{0..9},{A..F}}; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:00:11 <HackEgo> 0: hello, world!1: Hello, world!2: hello world!3: Hello world!4: hello, World!5: Hello, World!6: hello World!7: Hello World!8: hello, world,9: Hello, world,A: Hello, world \ B: hello world \ C: Hello world \ D: hello, World \ E: Hello, World \ F: hello World
02:00:22 <HackEgo> bin/hello: Perl script, ASCII text executable
02:00:29 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?$c&8?",":"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\n");
02:00:53 <b_jonas> oh, so it actually goes all the way up to 63
02:01:01 <b_jonas> but I don't remember how it works
02:01:07 <b_jonas> ``` for x in 1{{0..9},{A..F}}; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:01:08 <HackEgo> 10: Hello, world!11: Hello, world!12: Hello, world!13: Hello, world!14: Hello, world!15: Hello, world!16: Hello, world!17: Hello, world!18: Hello, world!19: Hello, world!1A: Hello, world!1B: Hello, world!1C: Hello, world!1D: Hello, world!1E: Hello, world!1F: Hello, world!
02:01:11 <b_jonas> ``` for x in 2{{0..9},{A..F}}; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:01:12 <HackEgo> 20: hello world!21: hello world!22: hello world!23: hello world!24: hello world!25: hello world!26: hello world!27: hello world!28: hello world!29: hello world!2A: hello world!2B: hello world!2C: hello world!2D: hello world!2E: hello world!2F: hello world!
02:01:16 <b_jonas> ``` for x in 3{{0..9},{A..F}}; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:01:17 <HackEgo> 30: Hello world!31: Hello world!32: Hello world!33: Hello world!34: Hello world!35: Hello world!36: Hello world!37: Hello world!38: Hello world!39: Hello world!3A: Hello world!3B: Hello world!3C: Hello world!3D: Hello world!3E: Hello world!3F: Hello world!
02:02:18 <b_jonas> oh, it doesn't take a hexi
02:02:42 <b_jonas> from ? to ~ inclusive presumably
02:03:27 <b_jonas> ``` for x in \? A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z \[ \\ \] \^ \_; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:03:29 <HackEgo> ?: Hello World,A: Hello, world \ B: hello world \ C: Hello world \ D: hello, World \ E: Hello, World \ F: hello World \ G: Hello World \ H: hello, world. \ I: Hello, world. \ J: hello world. \ K: Hello world. \ L: hello, World. \ M: Hello, World. \ N: hello World. \ O: Hello World. \ P: hello, world! \ Q: Hello, world! \ R: hello world! \ S: Hel
02:03:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SEARCH CHICKEN).
02:03:37 <b_jonas> ``` for x in @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z \[ \\ \] \^ \_; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:03:38 <HackEgo> @: hello, world \ A: Hello, world \ B: hello world \ C: Hello world \ D: hello, World \ E: Hello, World \ F: hello World \ G: Hello World \ H: hello, world. \ I: Hello, world. \ J: hello world. \ K: Hello world. \ L: hello, World. \ M: Hello, World. \ N: hello World. \ O: Hello World. \ P: hello, world! \ Q: Hello, world! \ R: hello world! \ S:
02:04:08 <b_jonas> ``` for x in \` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z { \| } \~ \?; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:04:09 <HackEgo> `: hello, worlda: Hello, worldb: hello worldc: Hello worldd: hello, Worlde: Hello, Worldf: hello Worldg: Hello Worldh: hello, world.i: Hello, world.j: hello world.k: Hello world.l: hello, World.m: Hello, World.n: hello World.o: Hello World.p: hello, world!q: Hello, world!r: hello world!s: Hello world!t: hello, World!u: Hello, World!v: hello Worl
02:05:25 <b_jonas> ``` for x in S T U V W X Y Z \[ \\ \] \^ \_; do echo -n "$x: "; hello "$x"; done
02:05:26 <HackEgo> S: Hello world! \ T: hello, World! \ U: Hello, World! \ V: hello World! \ W: Hello World! \ X: hello, world, \ Y: Hello, world, \ Z: hello world, \ [: Hello world, \ \: hello, World, \ ]: Hello, World, \ ^: hello World, \ _: Hello World,
02:05:53 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%60%60%60
02:05:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%60%60
02:07:08 <HackEgo> hello hello hello, what's all this then?
02:13:24 <b_jonas> `slashlearn `hello//`hello prints variants of hello, world. To control format, pass a single letter as command-line argument. "@"=>"hello, world", "H"=>"hello, world.", P=>"hello, world!", "X"=>"hello, world,", take 1 letter later to s/h/H/, 2 letter later to s/d,/d/, 4 letter later to s/w/W/, lowercase to remove newline.
02:13:27 <HackEgo> Learned '`hello': `hello prints variants of hello, world. To control format, pass a single letter as command-line argument. "@"=>"hello, world", "H"=>"hello, world.", P=>"hello, world!", "X"=>"hello, world,", take 1 letter later to s/h/H/, 2 letter later to s/d,/d/, 4 letter later to s/w/W/, lowercase to remove newline.
02:14:41 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
02:16:44 <zgrep> `` python -c 'for i in range(127): print chr(i+1)' | while read i; do echo "$i | "; hello $i; echo; done > hello_output_test.txt
02:17:00 <zgrep> `url hello_output_test.txt
02:17:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:17:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/hello_output_test.txt
02:17:14 <zgrep> `` python -c 'for i in range(127): print chr(i+1)' | while read i; do echo -n "$i | "; hello $i; echo; done > hello_output_test.txt
02:19:08 <zgrep> `` python -c 'for i in range(127): print chr(i+1)' | while read i; do echo -n "$i | "; hello $i | | tr '\n' 'ø' | sed 's/ø/\\n/g'; echo; done > hello_output_test.txt
02:19:09 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `|' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `python -c 'for i in range(127): print chr(i+1)' | while read i; do echo -n "$i | "; hello $i | | tr '\n' 'ø' | sed 's/ø/\\n/g'; echo; done > hello_output_test.txt'
02:19:14 <zgrep> `` python -c 'for i in range(127): print chr(i+1)' | while read i; do echo -n "$i | "; hello $i | tr '\n' 'ø' | sed 's/ø/\\n/g'; echo; done > hello_output_test.txt
02:20:06 <zgrep> I... I'm... giving up.
02:22:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:30:09 -!- furozo has joined.
02:35:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:35:49 -!- Jafet has joined.
02:37:26 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:40:02 <HackEgo> [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER]
02:40:26 -!- staffehn has joined.
02:41:50 <oerjan> `` echo hi | tr '\n' 'ø'
02:47:22 <oerjan> zgrep: tr only handles single byte chars hth
02:47:40 <zgrep> W... not on my laptop.
02:48:37 <zgrep> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/NsYDHpp7/
02:49:27 <HackEgo> tr (GNU coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Jim Meyering.
02:50:26 <zgrep> tr: illegal option -- -
02:50:52 <oerjan> mind you, it doesn't work with the 2016 version on this server either.
02:51:58 <oerjan> but you must have some other tr brand.
02:56:06 <oerjan> `` echo hi | perl -p -e 's/\n/\\n'
02:56:06 <HackEgo> Substitution replacement not terminated at -e line 1.
02:56:11 <oerjan> `` echo hi | perl -p -e 's/\n/\\n/'
02:56:27 <oerjan> `` echo -n hi | perl -p -e 's/\n/\\n/'
02:58:54 <zgrep> I'd assume some sort of BSD tr.
02:58:57 <zgrep> Being OS X and all.
02:59:09 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
03:04:04 -!- rodgort` has joined.
03:04:19 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Quit: zonkzonk).
03:04:23 -!- iovoid- has joined.
03:04:45 -!- xfix_ has joined.
03:06:29 -!- heroux_ has joined.
03:06:42 -!- \oren\_ has joined.
03:07:00 -!- haavardp has joined.
03:07:24 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
03:07:28 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- gsora has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- zemhill__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:28 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:29 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:29 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:29 -!- xfix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:07:29 -!- zemhill__ has joined.
03:07:29 -!- fungot has joined.
03:07:31 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux.
03:08:34 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
03:09:01 -!- copumpkin has joined.
03:09:58 -!- gsora has joined.
03:19:50 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Changing host).
03:19:50 -!- wlp1s1 has joined.
03:22:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50955&oldid=50916 * Hsorenson * (+54)
03:23:54 -!- fractal has joined.
03:26:09 -!- iovoid- has changed nick to iovoid.
04:16:50 -!- MDude has joined.
04:23:48 -!- kiki` has joined.
05:01:09 -!- lynn has joined.
05:23:41 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
05:40:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:50:30 -!- hakatashi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:51:50 -!- hakatashi has joined.
06:05:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:19:58 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Quit: zonkzonk).
06:20:28 <\oren\_> re today's XKCD, I maintain that time zones are vullshit
06:35:42 <erkin> We should just adopt a unified timezone.
06:39:44 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
06:47:20 -!- erkin has joined.
06:50:11 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:01:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:02:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:09:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:28:41 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:31:42 <rdococ> my thoughts are Drifting
07:51:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50956&oldid=50948 * Rdococ * (+1) CE is better than AD
08:02:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Transistor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50957&oldid=50947 * Rdococ * (-44) /* Boring things first */ mergh
08:06:35 <rdococ> maybe TP and TN could have block forms that execute code if A is false/true
08:07:03 -!- augur has joined.
08:07:13 <rdococ> like, if A turns out to not be what that specific transistor activates on, B receives no current
08:34:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
08:45:41 <rdococ> nah, I don't think it's needed
08:45:54 <rdococ> it also doesn't make sense
08:52:44 <lambdabot> PAMR 150753Z 00000KT 10SM BKN070 OVC130 01/M02 A2879 RMK AO2 SLP750 T00111022
08:52:49 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
09:20:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:35:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Juju2143 * New user account
09:49:57 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
10:12:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50958&oldid=50949 * Juju2143 * (+274)
10:12:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fluffle Puff]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50959 * Juju2143 * (+1908) Created page with "'''Fluffle Puff''' (also known as '''BrainPuff''' or '''FluffleFuck''') is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Juju2143|juju2143]] in January 2014. It is a..."
10:15:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50960&oldid=50952 * Juju2143 * (+19) /* F */
11:00:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fluffle Puff]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50961&oldid=50959 * Fizzie * (+0) /* Language overview */ bf/pl to pf/bl per the reference implementation/sample program
11:01:04 <fizzie> It's a brainfuck equivalent, but I still can't let a wrong thing stand.
11:01:53 <fizzie> @tell shachaf I've thought *so many times* that I should make fetch accept an output filename. Maybe.
11:02:09 <fizzie> @ask shachaf What sort of syntax would you like?
11:08:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:15:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:22:12 -!- MDead has joined.
11:24:48 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:24:56 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude.
11:29:54 <\oren\_> fuck the whole anglosphere just fuck it
11:30:13 <\oren\_> and the english lanuage in general
11:30:14 <int-e> but who will handle all the offspring?
11:34:12 <\oren\_> forgot about the sexual meaning of fuck
11:35:58 -!- boily has joined.
11:43:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
11:55:15 <HackEgo> minpoijjikop//Minpoijjikop bfjoustioppl sdardqwcasf uyvjhyb mipjkpmo.
11:56:35 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
11:57:10 <boily> `slwd wisdom//s/\? it/? It/
11:57:12 <HackEgo> wisdom//wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
11:57:21 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
11:57:32 * boily thwacks the HackEgo in the random bits
11:57:35 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
11:57:44 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
11:57:55 <HackEgo> icbm//ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently classified.
12:04:54 -!- atslash has joined.
12:16:26 -!- sebbu has joined.
12:29:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MAKE CHICKEN).
14:00:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:02:08 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
14:09:35 -!- bibibi has joined.
14:30:22 <fizzie> "Subject: Dying man discovers obesity 'cure'"
14:30:23 <fizzie> Yes, I expect death would technically speaking count as that.
14:47:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Calvin Games * New user account
14:52:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50962&oldid=50958 * Calvin Games * (+259)
14:53:55 -!- erkin has joined.
15:01:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50963 * Calvin Games * (+117) Created page with "'''Nors''' is a [[Zero Instruction Set Computer]] created by Calvin Games on February 14 2017. It is Turing complete."
15:01:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:02:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50964&oldid=50960 * Calvin Games * (+11)
15:03:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50965&oldid=50963 * Calvin Games * (+1)
15:11:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50966&oldid=50965 * Calvin Games * (+198)
15:27:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50967&oldid=50966 * Calvin Games * (+243)
15:32:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
15:36:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
15:54:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50968&oldid=50967 * Calvin Games * (+183) /* Programs */
15:54:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50969&oldid=50968 * Calvin Games * (+1) /* Programs */
15:59:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50970&oldid=50969 * Calvin Games * (+20) /* Programs */
16:01:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50971&oldid=50970 * Calvin Games * (+54) /* Description */
16:04:32 -!- Calvin has joined.
16:04:55 -!- Calvin has changed nick to Guest46944.
16:06:33 -!- Guest46944 has quit (Client Quit).
16:07:19 -!- CalvinGames has joined.
16:09:15 <erkin> Are you the one on the Touhou Discord?
16:09:44 <erkin> All right, just checking.
16:09:57 -!- CalvinGames has quit (Client Quit).
16:12:06 <Taneb> What thrilling conversation
16:12:25 -!- CalvinGames has joined.
16:16:12 <CalvinGames> In addition to being a VR game programmer and political debater I am also a purveyor of esolangs!
16:17:44 <CalvinGames> Last night in bed I created a ZISC called Nors. I added it to Esolang.
16:23:51 <erkin> We saw you add it five minutes before you joined.
16:25:34 <CalvinGames> Do you get notifications when the wiki is changed?
16:28:16 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:32:44 <rdococ> oh it's one of those automata-like languages
16:33:08 <rdococ> what I mean by that is things like BCT
16:34:03 <CalvinGames> By manipulating the initial state you can compute anything computable.
16:38:47 <CalvinGames> I guess that it is like a cellular automaton.
16:40:47 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:41:22 <rdococ> I'm trying to find the page for it now
16:41:28 <rdococ> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag
16:42:39 -!- ski has joined.
16:43:06 <CalvinGames> Thanks, I know about those. That was the first system that I actually understood its Turing completeness.
16:44:59 <CalvinGames> Wait, is there a difference between a bitwise cyclic tag system and a cyclic tag system?
16:46:46 <CalvinGames> How would the initial state be to return a xor b?
16:49:29 -!- atslash has joined.
16:54:07 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
17:02:10 <CalvinGames> It feels like cheating but 01001100aabb!a!a!b!b returns a XOR b.
17:07:17 <CalvinGames> It feels like cheating because of the !'s.
17:13:35 <rdococ> I installed a debian game metapackage and now my games menu is larger than the screen :P
17:13:48 <rdococ> I only wanted minesweeper :c
17:14:12 <CalvinGames> 01001100 halts the program after 3 cycles and outputs ((a NOR a) NOR (b NOR b)) NOR ((!a NOR !a) NOR (!b NOR !b)) = a XOR b.
17:16:16 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:18:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50972 * Calvin Games * (+297) Created page with "It feels like cheating but 01001100aabb!a!a!b!b returns a XOR b.<br /> 01001100 halts the program after 3 cycles and outputs ((a NOR a) NOR (b NOR b)) NOR ((!a NOR !a) NOR (!b..."
17:18:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nors]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50973&oldid=50972 * Calvin Games * (+111)
17:21:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Calvin Games]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50974 * Calvin Games * (+237) Created page with "I, '''Calvin Games''' have returned!<br /> In addition to being a VR game programmer and political debater I am also a purveyor of esolangs!<br /> Last night in bed I created..."
17:23:30 <oerjan> yep, when they aren't broken.
17:23:51 <oerjan> (tip: learn to use preview :P)
17:24:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
17:24:13 <oerjan> (not that i've seen you not do it)
17:24:26 <CalvinGames> So, with Nors how can one implement a XOR b without !'s?
17:24:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
17:27:18 <oerjan> CalvinGames: it's a button not long from the Save one
17:27:33 -!- Nithogg has joined.
17:30:15 <oerjan> CalvinGames: on the wiki?
17:30:33 <oerjan> are you using mobile or something?
17:30:59 -!- Perenelle has joined.
17:31:00 <oerjan> (that's where i meant to use preview. cuts down on the notifications.)
17:31:17 <CalvinGames> Oh, that is what you meant. I have, in fact, used preview.
17:32:22 <Perenelle> I had a shit night last night uwu my computer broke
17:32:38 <Perenelle> Fell off of my desk via me being drunk
17:32:55 <oerjan> DON'T DRINK AND COMPUTE
17:33:22 <int-e> the mathematician's version is better (don't drink and derive)
17:33:40 <Perenelle> Apparently I made one heck of a compiler last night
17:35:04 <oerjan> CalvinGames: the description is a bit terse
17:35:17 <Perenelle> You ever chase a shot of absinthe with Valium
17:36:09 <oerjan> oh, i was just misinterpreting P_n
17:36:19 <oerjan> (thought it referred to a bit first)
17:36:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:36:55 <oerjan> CalvinGames: what does ! do?
17:37:58 <oerjan> i see, you just mean putting !a in as a bit
17:38:17 <CalvinGames> Ah, I was afraid people would interpret it that way. ! is negation.
17:38:30 * oerjan has this eerie feeling this'll bring up the Post Lattice again.
17:39:59 <CalvinGames> Using ! felt like cheating to me because NOR should be the only logic operation.
17:40:23 <oerjan> CalvinGames: doesn't the string get halved in length every iteration? i think that pretty much rules out being TC.
17:40:49 <oerjan> CalvinGames: !a = a NOR a
17:43:41 <CalvinGames> The initial string can be arbitrary in length so anything computable can be computed. Isn't that equivelent to TC?
17:44:36 <oerjan> CalvinGames: oh is the problem that all bits must be at the same depth...
17:45:25 <oerjan> CalvinGames: that's not how TC works. you need to be able to grow the memory arbitrarily during the computing.
17:45:36 <lambdabot> fizzie said 6h 43m 43s ago: I've thought *so many times* that I should make fetch accept an output filename. Maybe.
17:45:36 <lambdabot> fizzie asked 6h 43m 27s ago: What sort of syntax would you like?
17:45:57 <shachaf> fizzie: I don't know, oerjan's the expert here.
17:46:03 <oerjan> CalvinGames: oh. you have a problem then.
17:46:28 <oerjan> because (A nor B) nor (C nor D) can be rewritten as (A or B) and (C or D)
17:46:57 <oerjan> in other words, you can only compute monotone functions of what was 2 steps before
17:47:14 * oerjan discovered that once when investigating 1D cellular automata
17:47:48 <Perenelle> Esoteric languages sound like utter bullshit and look like they would never work
17:47:49 <oerjan> so there's no way to compute something that is neither monotone nor the not of something monotone, and XOR isn't either.
17:48:08 <oerjan> so it's impossible Q.E.D.
17:49:08 <oerjan> (monotone function, btw, is indeed a node in the post lattice)
17:49:25 <Perenelle> Don't you not like post lattice oerjan?
17:56:48 -!- CalvinGames has quit (Quit: Page closed).
17:58:46 <oerjan> the post lattice is great
17:59:10 <oerjan> it tells everything about what boolean functions people have missed when doing stuff like this.
17:59:32 <oerjan> although admittedly, they probably don't get very deep into the weirder branches.
18:00:46 <oerjan> also, it gives a simple test for whether you _have_ covered all of them - just check that you can escape each of the five second level nodes
18:02:08 <oerjan> so: do you have a function that gives 1 as output for all 0 input, and one for the reverse; do you have a non-monotonic function, a non-self-dual function and a non-linear one.
18:02:44 <oerjan> (NOR and NAND of course fit all of those.)
18:07:52 <oerjan> fizzie: `fetch FILE URL should be unambiguous as long as FILE is not allowed to contain //, which we've sort of standardized on for other commands :)
18:09:32 <oerjan> although one could be tempted to go with `fetch FILE//URL
18:09:37 <\oren\_> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
18:10:14 <oerjan> (whether FILE should be allowed to contain space is a different matter.)
18:10:26 <\oren\_> there;s a horrible bug in my code that went unnoticed for months
18:11:04 <oerjan> \oren\_: does it prevent anything getting through the build system </rimshot>
18:11:52 <\oren\_> no, because my tests test for the bug rather than testing against it
18:12:27 <\oren\_> and I only noticed just now, noone else has noticed
18:12:39 <\oren\_> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
18:13:24 <oerjan> . o O ( this is \oren\_ realizing no one is using his code )
18:15:26 <oerjan> @tell * boily thwacks the HackEgo in the random bits <-- will you two be here all week
18:15:39 <oerjan> @tell boily * boily thwacks the HackEgo in the random bits <-- will you two be here all week
18:16:16 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:16:16 -!- Perenelle has quit (Quit: Bye).
18:22:20 <fizzie> oerjan: I think I'm leaning towards `fetch FILE URL -- and I guess if there's just one argument it should default to the current behaviour.
18:23:07 <oerjan> also, you should make sure not to put it outside /hackenv, or in .hg
18:26:09 <oerjan> fizzie: you might add that .hgignore thing as well
18:27:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
18:27:23 <fizzie> Soon I will need a bug tracker for this.
18:27:44 <oerjan> isn't Gregor's bitbucket that
18:28:19 <fizzie> I don't know if it has an issue tracker per se.
18:29:07 <fizzie> Github does, but I think Bitbucket just integrates with JIRA.
18:29:37 <HackEgo> bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \
18:29:45 <fizzie> Hmm. It does mention "issue tracking" as a feature.
18:29:51 <HackEgo> Usage: ip [ OPTIONS ] OBJECT { COMMAND | help } \ ip [ -force ] -batch filename \ where OBJECT := { link | addr | addrlabel | route | rule | neigh | ntable | \ tunnel | tuntap | maddr | mroute | mrule | monitor | xfrm | \ netns | l2tp } \ OPTIONS := { -V[ersion] | -s[tatistics] | -d[etails] | -r[
18:29:55 <fizzie> As a separate bullet point from the JIRA integration.
18:30:04 <HackEgo> 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN \ link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 \ inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo \ valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever \ inet6 ::1/128 scope host \ valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever \ 2: sit0: <NOARP> mtu 1480 qdisc noop state DOWN \
18:30:10 <oerjan> fizzie: might want to check that you're not following symbolic links ^
18:32:33 <fizzie> oerjan: Not following symbolic links in what?
18:33:15 <oerjan> fizzie: in the FILE part. as you see, the /hackenv can link outside.
18:33:26 <oerjan> or well, make sure that the result is not outside.
18:33:57 <fizzie> Especially since it's a rather different outside than that outside.
18:34:34 <fizzie> Wonder if I should allow overwrites or not.
18:35:42 -!- Nithogg has left ("WeeChat 1.5").
18:36:04 <oerjan> well, one of the obvious uses would be to directly replace a bin/ command without extra noise, renaming would defy that
18:37:35 <oerjan> although one could put it in tmp/ first - but as i implied a while ago, that could mean there's no trace of the actual `fetch in history.
18:37:54 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:38:15 <fizzie> That's a-true. Anyway, tmp/ is very user-unfriendly if you forget what happens when you mv.
18:38:21 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
18:38:50 <oerjan> shachaf has been hinting we should make a bin/mv to safeguard that.
18:40:56 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm just not sure how to do it correctly.
18:41:11 <oerjan> (well, i'm also lazy. but also not sure.)
18:41:15 <HackEgo> 8 \ metar \ pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
18:42:00 <shachaf> `` hg status -i tmp/split > /dev/null; echo $?
18:42:01 <HackEgo> tmp/split: No such file or directory \ 0
18:42:05 <shachaf> `` hg status -i tmp/spline > /dev/null; echo $?
18:42:19 <shachaf> `` hg status -i wisdom/testing > /dev/null; echo $?
18:42:20 <HackEgo> wisdom/testing: No such file or directory \ 0
18:43:00 <\oren\_> it's just the other components of the atlassian-verse that I don't like
18:43:04 <shachaf> You can probably do something.
18:43:11 <shachaf> `` hg status -i tmp/spline
18:43:14 <shachaf> `` hg status -i wisdom/testing
18:43:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/testing: No such file or directory
18:43:18 <shachaf> `` hg status -i wisdom/oerjan
18:43:32 <HackEgo> I tmp/8 \ I tmp/metar \ I tmp/pad.1 \ I tmp/pad.1 print 1+! \ I tmp/pad.print 1+! \ I tmp/spline \ I tmp/spout
18:43:49 <shachaf> There you go, close enough.
18:44:37 <\oren\_> confluence and hipchat are much worse
18:44:58 <shachaf> Confluence is pretty scow.
18:45:03 <shachaf> I haven't used that other one.
18:45:22 <\oren\_> hipchat is basically an inferior imitation of IRC
18:45:40 <fizzie> There was a Confluence instance at the university.
18:45:43 <fizzie> It was pretty enterprise.
18:45:59 <shachaf> I once wanted to reverse the rows in a big table in confluence.
18:46:13 <shachaf> I ended up doing it with a program that sent keystrokes to the browser.
18:47:27 <oerjan> shachaf: i see two problems: interpreting the arguments of mv correctly, and deciding what to do with a tmp/ file that is being moved.
18:48:03 <shachaf> i see those problems as your problems hth
18:48:22 <oerjan> replacing a mv by a cp on the first run isn't necessarily correct if it's part of a larger command.
18:48:36 <shachaf> 4chan this place up, or whatever you're doing.
18:49:31 <oerjan> in fact, it might be better to _not_ change mv, and instead let HackEgo handle tmp/ specially ... making a copy of it after each commit.
18:49:59 <\oren\_> shachaf: i herd u liek mudkipz
18:50:40 <\oren\_> actually never mind that's 4chan like 2006ish, I'm totally dating myself
18:51:38 <oerjan> the thing is tmp/ can be changed without commits, and that's part of its purpose...
18:52:12 <shachaf> I don't mind the current mv behavior.
18:52:39 <\oren\_> all ur base r belong 2 us!
18:53:36 -!- augur has joined.
18:55:05 <\oren\_> damn, I really need to catch up, I barely know any of the newer *chan memes
18:55:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: OKAY).
18:56:23 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:57:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:03:15 <fizzie> shachaf: Do you know what's also p. scow? Building JSON by concatenating strings.
19:03:15 <rdococ> helloren, what'shachaf up
19:03:58 <shachaf> fizzie: What do you think of a streaming JSON protocol?
19:04:46 <shachaf> E.g. https://buckbuild.com/rule/worker_tool.html
19:04:50 <shachaf> Is that a common thing to do?
19:06:18 <\oren\_> oh god it's worse than I thought
19:07:35 <fizzie> Is that the thing where you have an infinite array of things?
19:08:16 <shachaf> Well, it seems to be finite in this case.
19:08:27 <fizzie> Oh, there's even an end to it.
19:08:30 <\oren\_> I was expecting something that would have some sort of fault tolerance
19:08:56 <fizzie> Purely anecdotally, I think the "one JSON object per line" convention is more popularer.
19:09:19 <fizzie> Don't think I'm a big fan of either, but still.
19:09:22 <\oren\_> that way you can handle faulty objects
19:10:03 <shachaf> What sort of protocol would you use?
19:10:20 <fizzie> Stream of length-delimited protos hth
19:10:39 <fizzie> I find it weird that it's such a second-class citizen, though.
19:11:04 <\oren\_> some sort of actual RPC thing yeas
19:11:34 <shachaf> fizzie: Is Cloud Spanner the future?
19:11:53 <fizzie> Some of the languages that have proto runtimes have functions for reading varint-length-prefixed messages, but others don't.
19:12:24 <fizzie> I don't really know about Cloud Spanner.
19:12:42 <fizzie> The web page definitely isn't shy about its virtues.
19:13:17 <shachaf> What about regular Spanner?
19:13:47 <fizzie> I don't know that much about it either. It's not like we're running Spanner on Android phones.
19:14:03 <fizzie> Well, maybe add an asterisk on that, you never know.
19:14:17 <shachaf> why not? they have a gps hth
19:14:34 <\oren\_> "Closed: this is not correct English so we won't support it"
19:15:41 <shachaf> fizzie: You can always use http://stackoverflow.com/a/22927149
19:16:42 <fizzie> That's what I've done.
19:17:02 -!- dingbat has joined.
19:29:24 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:35:56 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:38:51 <rdococ> what about a language where numbers aren't first class
19:54:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:00:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50975&oldid=50973 * Calvin Games * (+121)
20:01:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50976&oldid=50971 * Calvin Games * (+43)
20:02:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:03:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
20:16:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:20:28 -!- atslash has joined.
20:24:02 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:24:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:39:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:46:16 -!- madhur has joined.
20:58:15 -!- furozo has joined.
21:08:01 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
21:12:26 -!- augur has joined.
21:13:37 <wob_jonas> I bought this bluetooth headphone adapter with microphone. Has built-in microphone, round jack slot for any headphone, and connects to my mobile phone via bluetooth so I can play music through or make calls.
21:15:02 <wob_jonas> There's a strange interface bug: if I set the music volume on the mobile phone to 1, then whenever the music player switches tracks, whether because I explicitly change or the current track ends, the adapter resets its volume to muted, though I can change that volume with the volume button on the adapter.
21:15:19 <wob_jonas> If I set the volume on the mobile phone to 2, then I think the volume still resets after every track, but not to muted.
21:18:18 <wob_jonas> I haven't tested calls through it yet, even though that's the main purpose (I don't need a microphone adapter for just listening to music, I can plug the headphones directly to the phone for that), will test tomorrow.
21:25:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
21:27:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
21:28:15 -!- \oren\_ has changed nick to \oren\.
21:37:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:42:58 -!- madhur has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:45:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fluffle Puff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50977&oldid=50961 * Juju2143 * (+45)
21:49:13 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:02:26 <fizzie> @tell oerjan I was doing the `fetch thing, and found a bug of sorts, so at least it was useful for that.
22:04:10 <wob_jonas> The bug could be in the mobile phone's software of how it handles bluetooth headsets of course.
22:08:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:19:53 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
22:20:05 <fizzie> ERROR: getchangegroup() got an unexpected keyword argument 'heads'
22:20:22 <fizzie> Interweb suggests (older versions of) git-remote-hg isn't compatible with Mercurial 4.
22:24:00 <\oren\> uuuugh the build still isn't built
22:24:15 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:24:17 <fizzie> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=844939 it is a sad
22:24:27 <fizzie> Maybe I should just not be trying to use git with Bitbucket.
22:24:34 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:24:39 <\oren\> BUILD THE WALL^H^H^H^HPROJECT
22:25:17 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA stop parsing everything over and over
22:30:49 -!- krok_ has joined.
22:31:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
22:33:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
22:36:27 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
22:38:25 <\oren\> I swear to god, gcc parses the same thing over and over and over
22:39:58 <\oren\> hey what if there was an esolang with a similiar feature
22:45:45 <\oren\> oh wait that's just any macro language
22:47:28 -!- juju2143 has joined.
22:48:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:48:47 <juju2143> hmm, Hey there. Fairly new here, at the same time I've been lurking for quite a while.
22:49:31 <juju2143> Is there some sort of graphical brainfuck variant? Because I just implemented one.
22:52:54 <\oren\> hwo do you mean, "graphical"
23:03:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:03:47 <fizzie> @tell oerjan 23:03 <HackEgo> Usage: fetch URL or fetch OUTPUT_FILE URL (no spaces or quoting in OUTPUT_FILE)
23:04:15 <HackEgo> Usage: fetch URL or fetch OUTPUT_FILE URL (no spaces or quoting in OUTPUT_FILE)
23:04:40 <shachaf> fizzie: What's wrong with making it ///-separated?
23:05:19 <fizzie> Well, that's not a supported scheme anyway.
23:05:34 <shachaf> `fetch gopher://zzo38computer.org/
23:05:35 <HackEgo> gopher://zzo38computer.org/: Unsupported scheme `gopher'.
23:06:03 <shachaf> Can you fix it to suppose gopher?
23:06:12 <fizzie> Fun fact: previously it didn't add a -- before the URL.
23:06:22 <fizzie> 22:01 <fizzie> `fetch --version
23:06:23 <fizzie> 22:01 <HackEgo> GNU Wget 1.13.4 built on linux-gnu.
23:06:33 <shachaf> That fact would have been a lot more fun without the word "previously".
23:06:43 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Wed Feb 15 23:06:43 2017
23:07:03 <shachaf> 14:02 <fizzie> @tell oerjan I was doing the `fetch thing, and found a bug of sorts, so at least it was useful for that.
23:07:51 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:11:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:12:05 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:12:58 <fizzie> ...I was just typing up a pull request as our internet went away.
23:13:22 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:13:38 <fizzie> Oh, didn't update that.
23:15:34 <fizzie> Also had to put it in the 'default' branch instead of using a separate feature branch, because there's a bunch of local changes in the live HackEgo and hg seemed to be a little scow about that and branch changes.
23:16:04 <fizzie> This Mercurial thing about branches and bookmarks, I find it a little confusing.
23:16:26 <juju2143> I hope this thing is chrooted correctly
23:16:53 <juju2143> inb4 someone runs rm -rf / and throws everything away
23:18:03 <fizzie> There's a thing for that, if only because doing `revert is a little wearying.
23:20:04 <fizzie> juju2143: As a belated answer to your earlier question, yes, there's a thing that was called "bfvga" or something similar, turned up in the demoscene circles.
23:21:03 <fizzie> It does what it sounds like it does: maps the brainfuck tape into the VGA video memory.
23:22:30 <fizzie> http://wiki.gudinna.com/BrainfuckVGA I don't know if this was exactly the same thing, stands to reason something like that would've been independently reinvented several times.
23:22:36 <fizzie> (Also the internet came back.)
23:23:42 -!- fungot has joined.
23:24:14 <fizzie> fungot: You came back too!
23:24:14 <fungot> fizzie: i'm gonna totally ace that class
23:24:33 <fungot> shachaf: it only looks like chat on the surface... nothing in-depth though. qc gates have to be
23:26:26 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:26:52 <shachaf> `fetch --help file://invalid
23:26:53 <HackEgo> file://invalid: Unsupported scheme `file'.
23:27:25 <shachaf> fizzie: Do you think gflags is a good way to do command-line arguments?
23:27:32 <fizzie> Assuming things worked out as they should, that would've written the output into ./--help.
23:27:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:27:42 <shachaf> How do you pass your arguments? "--arg value" or "--arg=value"?
23:27:45 <fizzie> Actually, I seem to recall wget might do that with -O even when it doesn't.
23:27:50 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hello_output_test.txt \ --help \ hw \ ibin \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
23:28:43 <Phantom_Hoover> my perception of the rule has always been that -a value is the short convention and --arg=value is the long one
23:28:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:29:06 <shachaf> Well, gflags is slightly different from the flags you're thinking of anyway.
23:29:09 <fizzie> The rationale, per the man page, is that "wget -O foo ..." is supposed to work like "wget ... > foo", which would also have created/truncated the output file even if it fails.
23:29:33 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't usually use the =, I think. Not sure.
23:29:50 <fizzie> shachaf: Okay, that's not entirely true, I do use it for at least blaze.
23:30:02 <fizzie> Or maybe not. Ahh, I don't know.
23:30:31 <fizzie> The underscores are what feel odd to me.
23:31:35 <shachaf> The underscores are odd but also they make sense.
23:31:36 <juju2143> fizzie: Thanks for that, but my implementation is a bit fancier.
23:32:42 <juju2143> Each line and each column is a circular tape, and I added a @ command to switch between horizontal and vertical mode
23:33:47 <fizzie> Can you rotate the tapes?
23:34:07 <juju2143> Additionally, it's not mapped directly in memory and you need to use . to print a pixel.
23:34:22 <fizzie> Well, that's pretty fancy.
23:35:23 <fizzie> Well, if you have to put the pixels separately, maybe that's not so relevant. I was just thinking that might look interesting.
23:35:26 <juju2143> if you're on line 0 you'll need to @ to go to column 0 then > and @ again
23:36:47 <fizzie> There's some other languages that have a bit of a graphical focus, but I don't think we have a category for them.
23:36:55 <fizzie> There's https://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher for example.
23:38:56 <fizzie> I'm also pretty sure if you go through all of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives there's going to be at least somewhat similar. (Drawfuck, at least.)
23:40:23 <fizzie> (Not that much similar -- it's got a normal brainfuck tape, it's just been augmented with a X, Y register pair you can use to poke a pixel into.)
23:50:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:52:32 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:52:58 -!- tromp has joined.
23:53:12 <lambdabot> fizzie said 1h 50m 45s ago: I was doing the `fetch thing, and found a bug of sorts, so at least it was useful for that.
23:53:12 <lambdabot> fizzie said 49m 24s ago: 23:03 <HackEgo> Usage: fetch URL or fetch OUTPUT_FILE URL (no spaces or quoting in OUTPUT_FILE)
23:53:19 <oerjan> fizzie: my initial suggestion was essentially to make it " http[s]://"-separated.
23:53:44 <oerjan> that way, you essentially have `fetch FILE URL, but don't need to disallow spaces.
23:55:39 <oerjan> but then, we rarely use spaces in filenames outside wisdom/
23:56:03 <oerjan> (they're not very useful for bin/)
23:56:38 <shachaf> Hmm, there should be a version of ` that allows spaces in command names.
23:56:54 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6269 6e2f 200a bin/ .
23:57:19 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6578 6563 200a exec .
23:57:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:57:42 <oerjan> was that maybe an attempt to make ` cmd work
23:58:16 <HackEgo> 6583:2016-01-18 <zgrëp> ` echo "exec $@" >> \'bin/ \'
23:58:34 <oerjan> i guess we need to ask zgrep what the purpose was
23:59:07 <oerjan> looking at the doag, i don't think it did what e wanted, anyway.
23:59:22 <fizzie> oerjan: I guess that could've been reasonable too. Anyway, it is what it is. There's some other gotchas as well, like the thing where it truncates the output file to be empty if `fetch files, which might easily go unnoticed.
23:59:35 <shachaf> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.01.17
23:59:52 <oerjan> fizzie: that's a pretty ugly gotcha.
00:00:12 <fizzie> 23:29 <fizzie> The rationale, per the man page, is that "wget -O foo ..." is supposed to work like "wget ... > foo", which would also have created/truncated the output file even if it fails.
00:00:20 <fizzie> I might go as far as to call it a scow.
00:00:40 <oerjan> any option to disable it?
00:01:13 <zgrep> oerjan: Hello. What did I mess up now?
00:01:48 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `bin/ ': No such file or directory
00:02:13 <oerjan> zgrep: you tried to make "bin/ " about a year ago, but it failed for two different reasons.
00:02:27 <oerjan> so now i removed it, since it's useless.
00:02:45 <zgrep> Past zgrep is a whole other zgrep.
00:02:55 * zgrep doesn't remember that in the slightest
00:02:58 <oerjan> (the first reason is that you can't get ` cmd to work that way, the other is that you messed up quoting)
00:04:03 <zgrep> I wonder, how many esoteric interpreters / compilers are inside HackEgo.
00:04:43 <HackEgo> zgrep: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:05:22 <zgrep> ` echo does # this work?
00:05:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
00:05:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
00:06:17 <zgrep> `` ls -1 bin | grep relcome | wc -l
00:06:34 <zgrep> I'm just going to continue being confused then.
00:06:42 <zgrep> Does HackEgo behave weirdly with notices?
00:06:59 <zgrep> Err... oh, wait, I'm not looking at my screen properly.
00:07:02 <zgrep> Maybe I should take a nap.
00:08:38 <oerjan> fizzie: hm a simple workaround would be to drop the commit if the file ends up empty
00:09:27 <oerjan> (once again, tmp/ gets left out :P)
00:13:27 <oerjan> zgrep: shachaf is cheating hth
00:15:10 <oerjan> (possibly you can see it in your client, i cannot)
00:16:11 <juju2143> fizzie: thanks for the help. I also made a musical brainfuck, this should be interesting.
00:20:53 <oerjan> it's between the ` and the space fwiw
00:20:53 <zgrep> Grr. Now I'm going to have to figure this out.
00:21:18 <oerjan> but with my client, even that doesn't help.
00:22:33 * zgrep looks at a 4 column ascii chart
00:22:59 <oerjan> the control codes have special meaning for irc.
00:23:17 <oerjan> ^O is "cancel formatting" or something like that
00:23:36 <fizzie> oerjan: Plausible, but would involve a little interaction with lib/fetch and the transaction logic.
00:23:36 <zgrep> So it is, it seems.
00:24:13 <zgrep> `` which `python -c 'print"\x0f"'`
00:24:24 <zgrep> `` which `python -c 'print"\u200b"'`
00:24:38 <fizzie> oerjan: As it stands, fetch runs under the same transaction logic. (Yes, it fetches the URL twice.)
00:24:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Juju2143]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50978 * Juju2143 * (+421) Created page with "I'm '''juju2143''' (or '''Juju''', mind the capitals) and I program things. I wrote my first [[Brainfuck]] interpreter in TI-83+ BASIC around 2009 and it keeps happening sinc..."
00:24:53 <oerjan> `` hg cat wisdom/fetch
00:24:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/fetch: no such file in rev 1b9e4e8dbb85
00:24:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Juju2143]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50979&oldid=50978 * Juju2143 * (+1)
00:25:01 <oerjan> `` hg cat wisdom/revert
00:25:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/revert: no such file in rev 1b9e4e8dbb85
00:25:13 <oerjan> `` hg cat wisdom/\`revert
00:25:14 <HackEgo> `revert now works fine. Yay fizzie!
00:25:24 <oerjan> fizzie: you could use that ^
00:26:46 <oerjan> or perhaps whatever the command is for reverting the file back to rep
00:27:04 <oerjan> you could run it inside lib/fetch
00:27:58 <oerjan> and then the transaction logic should recognize that nothing changed, by itself.
00:32:16 <fizzie> I'll do that after the current behaviour turns out to be a problem.
00:33:01 <fizzie> Presumably if you're overwriting a file, and it fails, you're going to just keep trying until it has the contents you want, anyway.
00:33:35 <oerjan> ...will it give an error message, then?
00:33:55 <oerjan> if so, that's probably unlikely to be a problem.
00:33:58 <fizzie> It'll say whatever wget says. So usually an error message of some sort.
00:34:11 <fizzie> It may not be a particularly good error message.
00:38:03 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
00:38:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found
00:38:15 <HackEgo> Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
00:38:46 <fizzie> There's one really quirky corner case it currently gets wrong, which I'm not going to bother worrying about. (Mostly because I already made the pull request.)
00:38:46 <oerjan> `mkx source//\? source
00:38:54 <fizzie> `fetch tmp/foo https://zem.fi/tmp/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/foo
00:38:57 <HackEgo> 2017-02-16 00:38:45 URL:https://zem.fi/tmpfoo [4/4] -> "/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/tmp/foo" [1]
00:39:18 <shachaf> fizzie: Can we get access to tmp/ via HTTP somehow?
00:39:59 <fizzie> There's a .replace() that converts the "raw" path in the wget output to the "logical" path, but it fails if the $HACKENV path happens to be a substring in the URL.
00:42:54 <oerjan> oh, it's just about the output printed?
00:43:21 <oerjan> oh well, it wouldn't be HackEgo if it weren't hacky.
00:45:11 <fizzie> shachaf: That might be a bit tricky. Definitely not via fshg, and I don't think it would be feasible in the naive way of just pointing the web server at the directory.
00:45:42 <fizzie> Besides, if I make that happen you'll start asking for a way to NFS-mount tmp/ on your machines.
00:48:17 <zgrep> How much disk space does HackEgo have...
00:48:55 <HackEgo> df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
00:49:05 <zgrep> Makes sense, given how it works.
00:49:14 <fizzie> There's probably some way to work around that.
00:49:20 <fizzie> Anyway, there's 28 gigs or so free.
00:49:37 <zgrep> For some reason I was thinking of loading some dictionaries onto there, unless there's already some there.
00:50:34 <HackEgo> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on \ - 39G 9.6G 28G 27% /hackenv
00:50:58 <zgrep> `` df -h /hackenv 2>/dev/null
00:50:59 <HackEgo> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on \ - 39G 9.6G 28G 27% /hackenv
00:51:26 <fizzie> A statfs call on the UML bind mount is fine, it's just the getting of mountpoints that it can't do.
00:52:52 <zgrep> Does mk / mkx let you make multiline things in an easy fashion?
00:53:18 <fizzie> I think they're single-line-only.
00:53:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/mk
00:53:59 <fizzie> There's been some talk of a line editor, which I think should use tmp/ for state, if someone goes ahead and does one.
00:54:28 <zgrep> I was about to ask why, then I realised IRC.
00:55:00 <fizzie> I think people generally just fall back to `fetch at the point things get too tricky.
00:55:56 <zgrep> E-except mercurial says not found?
00:56:06 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
00:56:13 <shachaf> fizzie: I was thinking of doing it.
00:56:28 * zgrep has a bad idea of how to do it
00:58:35 <fizzie> There was an attempt already, but it went nowhere, except for leaving some cruft in tmp.
00:58:39 <HackEgo> 8 \ foo \ metar \ pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
00:59:06 <fizzie> I wonder if I could in fact do it the naive way after all.
01:00:15 <shachaf> Does the naive way involve mv for the final step?
01:00:34 <fizzie> Oh, I meant the "expose tmp over HTTP".
01:00:47 <fizzie> The permissions look plausible (after all, the web server can access the repository too), and nginx might be configurable to override content-type with something safe-ish.
01:01:05 <shachaf> You should use application/octet-stream and annoy everyone.
01:01:19 <fizzie> That's what the fshg raw links do.
01:02:01 <fizzie> They used to serve a guessed MIME type, but there's obvious problems if there's anything else on the same domain.
01:02:20 <zgrep> Hm. I guess it would be safer.
01:02:30 <fizzie> I don't know if text/plain would be okay.
01:02:37 <shachaf> I think text/plain should be fine?
01:03:00 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:03:10 <fizzie> It can look a bit odd if it's a big binary file, but maybe that's not too bad.
01:03:33 <fizzie> "Risks of serving untrusted content under HTTP Content-Type: text/plain"
01:04:03 <oerjan> isn't text/css supposedly a workaround people use
01:04:24 <fizzie> That sounds vaguely familiar.
01:05:06 <shachaf> imo do it and ask questions later
01:05:23 <zgrep> And question answers.
01:05:56 <oerjan> `fetch minsk https://esolangs.org/wiki/The Amnesiac From Minsk
01:05:58 <HackEgo> 2017-02-16 01:05:46 URL:https://esolangs.org/wiki/The%20Amnesiac%20From%20Minsk [41183] -> "minsk" [1]
01:06:27 <fizzie> Yes, it splits at most once, at the first whitespace.
01:07:15 <oerjan> oh that's what , 1) is for, i guess
01:07:31 <shachaf> Spaces are invalid in URIs anyway.
01:08:42 <oerjan> `fetch .hg/test https://esolangs.org/wiki/The Amnesiac From Minsk
01:08:44 <HackEgo> 2017-02-16 01:08:32 URL:https://esolangs.org/wiki/The%20Amnesiac%20From%20Minsk [41183] -> ".hg/test" [1]
01:09:06 <HackEgo> <!DOCTYPE html> \ <html lang="en" dir="ltr" class="client-nojs"> \ <head> \ <meta charset="UTF-8"/> \ <title>The Amnesiac From Minsk - Esolang</title> \ <script>document.documentElement.className = document.documentElement.className.replace( /(^|\s)client-nojs(\s|$)/, "$1client-js$2" );</script> \ <script>(window.RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(functio
01:09:14 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `.hg/test': Read-only file system
01:10:26 * oerjan hopes there was no .hg/test already
01:10:38 <shachaf> I can think of more interesting things to overwrite in .hg.
01:10:51 <HackEgo> 00changelog.i \ branch \ branchheads.cache \ cache \ dirstate \ last-message.txt \ requires \ store \ tags.cache \ test \ undo.bookmarks \ undo.branch \ undo.desc \ undo.dirstate
01:11:21 <fizzie> I don't think there was a test.
01:12:00 <fizzie> (This is why we can't have nice things, incidentally.)
01:12:33 <shachaf> `fetch /tmp/test https://esolangs.org/wiki/The Amnesiac From Minsk
01:12:34 <HackEgo> In another world: /tmp/test
01:12:50 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you play that game?
01:13:55 <fizzie> That game as in that link? No.
01:14:02 <shachaf> As in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_World_(video_game)
01:14:05 <oerjan> fizzie: i'm pretty sure i mentioned the .hg/ issue previously tdnh
01:14:11 <shachaf> I didn't, but I did play _Heart of Darkness_.
01:14:24 <shachaf> 10:23 <oerjan> also, you should make sure not to put it outside /hackenv, or in .hg
01:15:35 <fizzie> (I've disabled fetch temporarily, incidentally.)
01:15:40 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
01:17:02 -!- atslash has joined.
01:20:10 <fizzie> `fetch .hg/test https://esolangs.org/wiki/The Amnesiac From Minsk
01:20:11 <HackEgo> In another world: .hg/test
01:23:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
01:23:51 <fizzie> I wonder if Mercurial has any other special files than .hgignore outside of .hg/.
01:23:52 <oerjan> i can still see a possible issue with race condition in the unlocked first run...
01:24:19 <oerjan> if someone replaced a directory by a symbolic link at the right moment...
01:24:42 <fizzie> That's certainly true.
01:46:57 <oerjan> fizzie: um never mind. fetch actually _doesn't_ run twice. it sets always_exclusive to True.
01:46:58 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
01:48:49 <oerjan> (transact's second argument)
01:50:35 <fizzie> No, I mean... I think I did that.
01:50:51 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/commits/b866d833
01:51:35 <fizzie> In that case, I'm calling it safe.
01:52:52 <fizzie> It would be, if I hadn't gotten sidetracked by this symlink thing.
01:54:47 * oerjan whacks HackEgo with his new skillet ==\____/
01:56:13 <shachaf> Is it one of those fancy skillets?
01:56:30 <shachaf> With aluminium in the middle for heat retention between two layers of stainless steel?
01:57:08 <oerjan> (it is, alas, purely virtual)
01:57:28 <oerjan> (not that i cook anything but pizza, anyway)
01:57:49 <shachaf> You can cook that in a skillet.
01:58:25 <shachaf> Should I get a fancy pizza stone so I can bake pizza?
01:58:30 <shachaf> Or maybe I should bake pizza on steel instead?
01:58:42 <shachaf> Or maybe just get a cheap stone.
01:58:45 <shachaf> It's a steel at that price.
01:58:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:58:53 <oerjan> i think boily is a better to ask than me. maybe.
01:59:09 <oerjan> how did i think that word without typing it, again
01:59:35 <oerjan> it seems to be happening lately.
02:00:54 * oerjan swats shachaf for buildup effort -----###
02:10:13 <oerjan> <juju2143> Is there some sort of graphical brainfuck variant? Because I just implemented one. <-- see Paintfuck
02:10:52 <oerjan> it's one of the few brainfuck derivatives that actually got some interest here in the channel
02:23:50 <fizzie> Okay, let's give this a go.
02:23:54 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e 's/|tmp//;10i\' -e ' elif re.match(r"tmp/(?:|$)",f):' -e '10i\' -e ' print ("http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/" + urllib.quote(f))' bin/url
02:23:57 <fizzie> `url tmp/diff_help.txt
02:23:58 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/diff_help.txt
02:25:16 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ eli
02:25:18 <fizzie> Whoops, that / was supposed to be inside the thing.
02:25:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url
02:25:45 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e 's#/(?:#(?:/#' bin/url
02:25:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin/url
02:28:20 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \
02:28:34 <oerjan> i guess that one remains the same.
02:29:30 <fizzie> I'm definitely not going to implement a historical log of tmp.
02:32:33 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
02:32:38 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp
02:32:50 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e 's#(?:\.hg)#\.hg#' bin/url # optomize it a little
02:33:08 <zgrep> It could do with a automagic / on the end of directories.
02:33:27 <oerjan> . o O ( why isn't http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/bin/url working )
02:33:56 <fizzie> Yeah, it's not supposed to.
02:34:53 <oerjan> `` ln -s ../bin/url tmp/url
02:34:54 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e 's#(?:\\.hg)#\.hg#' bin/url # retry optomize
02:35:30 <fizzie> What, it follows symlinks with no extra configuration?
02:35:40 * oerjan wonders if fizzie will break soon
02:35:58 <fizzie> Whoever came up with symlinks should be mauled.
02:36:23 <oerjan> hm that could indeed be a problem if there are things that shouldn't be visible.
02:36:26 <zgrep> Hm. A bad version of a persistent ed could be simply writing every command to a file, and re-running it all through ed every time. The file would be cleared for a small subset of commands, such as q, w, etc.
02:36:44 <oerjan> (outside /hackenv, presumably)
02:37:23 <fizzie> I think that's fixed now.
02:37:41 <shachaf> fizzie: I was going to do the symlink thing as soon as you set up tmp/
02:37:48 <shachaf> But apparently oerjan beat me to it while I wasn't looking.
02:38:09 <HackEgo> 8 \ diff_help.txt \ foo \ metar \ pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout \ url
02:38:28 <fizzie> I'm too tired to figure out what's the incantation to get nginx to append that last /.
02:38:38 <shachaf> Not sure why tmp/8 isn't working.
02:39:01 <fizzie> It works for me in a browser too.
02:39:01 <shachaf> Just my browser was broken.
02:39:47 <fizzie> Fun fact: the fshg is actually served at http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ which is why that tmp is where it is.
02:40:15 <fizzie> The normal http://codu.org/... is just another server reverse-proxying in front of it.
02:40:51 <shachaf> Great, now we need a version of paste that doesn't pollute history.
02:41:08 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hello_output_test.txt \ hw \ ibin \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ source \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
02:41:18 <HackEgo> bin/ \ canary \ emoticons/ \ esobible/ \ etc/ \ evil/ \ factor/ \ good/ \ hello_output_test.txt \ hw/ \ ibin/ \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps/ \ karma \ le/ \ lib/ \ misle/ \ out \ paste/ \ ply-3.8/ \ quines/ \ quotes \ share/ \ source* \ src/ \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry/ \ tmp/ \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom/
02:41:20 <fizzie> `` mkdir tmp/paste # just checking what a directory would look like
02:41:21 <HackEgo> paste.10027 \ paste.10030 \ paste.10068 \ paste.1009 \ paste.10124 \ paste.10129 \ paste.1013 \ paste.10183 \ paste.10185 \ paste.10198 \ paste.1022 \ paste.10249 \ paste.10305 \ paste.10325 \ paste.10348 \ paste.1037 \ paste.10378 \ paste.10413 \ paste.10517 \ paste.10519 \ paste.10538 \ paste.10571 \ paste.10590 \ paste.10605 \ paste.10757 \ past
02:41:52 <shachaf> `` rm -r paste; ln -s tmp/paste paste
02:41:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/paste
02:43:55 <fizzie> I wonder if your operation was just too big.
02:44:33 <fizzie> Anyway, it'd be easy enough to edit bin/paste instead.
02:50:35 <shachaf> I wish `spam wasn't required for every line of spam.
02:50:49 <shachaf> It doubles the amount of spam.
02:51:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ then \ true \ else \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ fi
02:53:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/paste
02:56:41 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif re.
02:57:23 <oerjan> `sled bin/url//s,[|].hg,|\\.hg,
02:57:24 <HackEgo> bin/url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ e
02:58:27 <fizzie> Guess I optimized away the \ entirely.
02:59:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:00:09 <shachaf> fizzie: whoa whoa whoa, sed -i -e?
03:02:10 <fizzie> If you mean it should have been sled or something, I can't keep track of all this newfangled stuff.
03:02:25 <HackEgo> 8235:2016-05-31 <shachäf> ` mv bin/sedk bin/sled; sedk \'bin/sled//s-sedk-sled-\' \ 8236:2016-05-31 <shachäf> sled bin/sled//s-sedk-sled- \ 8259:2016-06-01 <shachäf> sled bin/sled//s#\\|\\| exit 1#|| { echo \'no such file\'; exit 1; }# \ 8260:2016-06-01 <shachäf> revert \ 8261:2016-06-01 <oerjän> sled bin/sled//s/exit 1; sed/{ echo \'Rose
03:02:35 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi
03:03:05 <oerjan> i distinctly modified sed to catch -i use but fizzie breaks stuff by using -e
03:03:10 <HackEgo> `sled <filename>//<sed script>
03:03:15 <\oren\> 滑 why does water + bone = slide???? WTF chinese characters
03:03:16 <shachaf> fizzie: that's all you gotta do hth
03:04:16 <fizzie> I think I'll just start using `/bin/sed.
03:04:46 <oerjan> fizzie: it's just so that the resulting file is printed, like with sled.
03:05:14 <shachaf> oerjan: What you should do is use hg status to decide which files to print.
03:06:59 <fizzie> Why would I want to print the resulting file? It's generally not going to even fit on a line.
03:07:59 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
03:08:09 <\oren\> fizzie if youre using slwd you want to make sure it fits on a line
03:08:47 <HackEgo> `slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
03:08:57 <oerjan> fizzie: mostly because boily kept using it for wisdoms, and he sometimes messed it up
03:09:29 <oerjan> and i want it to print the result so i can see obvious errors without checking the repo.
03:09:38 <fizzie> I'm definitely not going to start remembering anything that involves a w.
03:10:05 <oerjan> it's ok, h is old hat we use d these days.
03:10:44 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
03:11:34 <fizzie> `` ls bin/* | grep '[wh]' | /bin/sed -e 's|bin/||'
03:11:35 <HackEgo> welcome \ addscowrevs \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ chroot \ cwlprits \ dowg \ downvote \ dowt \ echo \ echo \ echo-p \ ehlist \ emoclew \ forth \ grph \ grwp \ gwn \ gwni \ h \ ?h \ h! \ halp \ hatesgeo \ hd \ hello \ hello-world-in-any-language \ ?hh \ hi \ hlnp \ hoag \ hoat \ hog \ howg \ howt \ hurl \ hwrl \ hyf
03:11:51 <\oren\> `slwd fizzie//s/$/ He never remembers w's./
03:11:53 <HackEgo> fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg He never remembers w's.
03:12:23 <HackEgo> fizzie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:12:31 <shachaf> The punctuation was a mess.
03:12:52 <shachaf> And also it's an inside joke that won't make any sense to anyone who didn't happen to be around right now.
03:14:29 <shachaf> The US stock market keeps going up. #hashtag #scow
03:14:29 <\oren\> WHY IS THERE NO FULLWIDTH INTERROBANG
03:14:34 <oerjan> apparently google translate has had someone review the translation of えええええええ
03:16:11 <pikhq> shachaf: I'm pretty sure most finance people figure we're in a bubble, and the stock market is probably going to keep going up until the bubble pops.
03:18:01 <pikhq> No, I'm insufficiently liquid to invest much of anything.
03:18:29 <\oren\> dunno how those are afected
03:19:44 <shachaf> I don't think it's affected.
03:20:03 <shachaf> What sort of interest do you get?
03:22:29 <\oren\> (had to loginto the stupid bank wobsite)
03:23:34 <shachaf> Seems that inflation in 2016 was a bit higher than that.
03:23:52 <shachaf> I guess it's better than cash.
03:24:12 <\oren\> note all this is canadian dolars
03:24:28 <shachaf> Right, I mean inflation in Canada.
03:25:06 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
03:25:25 <\oren\> I only have less than half my money in the GIC tho I should probably put more in
03:27:41 <shachaf> Do you think it's a good idea?
03:30:50 <fizzie> shachaf: You should buy this because it's p. cute: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/one-of-londons-smallest-houses-goes-on-sale-in-chelsea-for-600k-a3468051.html
03:33:00 <shachaf> I have ~90% of my money in the US stock market. But lately I've been thinking that it should be more like 200%.
03:39:31 <\oren\> Hmm, I wonder if I should try living in london?
03:40:05 <\oren\> chelsea appears to be pretty expensive tho
03:41:25 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:42:13 <\oren\> is it rainy all year round in london?
03:46:30 <fizzie> Depends on what counts as "rainy".
03:46:51 <fizzie> It rains less in terms of volume than in Helsinki.
03:47:21 <fizzie> There might be more rainy days, though. Haven't checked the statistics.
03:47:56 <fizzie> It definitely isn't rainy every day, but there is probably some rain every month.
03:49:03 <fizzie> "On average there are 164 days per year with more than 0.1 mm (0.004 in) of rainfall (precipitation) or 13.7 days with a quantity of rain, sleet, snow etc. per month."
03:51:53 <fizzie> Looks like even that metric is higher in Helsinki: "On average there are 191 days per year with more than 0.1 mm (0.004 in) of rainfall (precipitation) or 15.9 days with a quantity of rain, sleet, snow etc. per month."
03:52:09 <shachaf> What is the metric in Seattle?
03:52:41 <fizzie> These were from http://www.london.climatemps.com/precipitation.php if you want to compare.
03:53:45 <fizzie> Seattle: On average there are 150 days per year with more than 0.1 mm (0.004 in) of rainfall (precipitation) or 12.5 days with a quantity of rain, sleet, snow etc. per month.
03:56:07 <fizzie> Seattle's 965 mm of rainfall / year does have both Helsinki and London quite thoroughly beaten.
04:13:07 <zgrep> Persistent ed, implemented using a Probably Bad Idea™. http://sprunge.us/YbIW?sh
04:14:15 <zgrep> I'm also not certain it'll work on HackEgo. But it works using whatever ed comes bundled with OS X.
04:16:06 <zgrep> Heh. It'll start messing things up if you try to make a sed-like change, then save, and continue editing.
04:16:18 <zgrep> s/Probably // Then.
04:23:21 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
04:23:36 -!- atslash has joined.
04:27:59 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
04:32:12 -!- erkin has joined.
04:52:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50980 * Juju2143 * (+1409) Created page with "'''Graphical Brainfuck''' (GBF) is a [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Juju2143|juju2143]] in Febuary 2017. It is a multi-dimensional extension of Brainfuc..."
04:56:31 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
04:57:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Npaul * New user account
05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:13:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50981&oldid=50980 * Juju2143 * (+1826)
05:14:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:14:22 <juju2143> I hope I'm clear enough because it's kinda hard to explain
05:22:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:23:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50982&oldid=50981 * Juju2143 * (+506)
05:25:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50983&oldid=50982 * Juju2143 * (-28)
05:29:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Juju2143]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50984&oldid=50979 * Juju2143 * (+24)
05:33:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50985&oldid=50983 * Juju2143 * (+72)
05:34:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50986&oldid=50964 * Juju2143 * (+26) /* G */
05:39:25 <juju2143> I have an implementation in SmileBASIC, but I never got anything interesting to show. I'm not even sure how I'd do an hello world. I'm not even sure if there's bugs in my implementation.
06:09:37 -!- haavardp has changed nick to haavard.
06:15:13 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
06:25:20 -!- augur has joined.
06:25:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
06:28:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50987&oldid=50962 * Npaul * (+257)
06:28:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aya]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50988 * Npaul * (+6319) The Aya Programming Language
06:30:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50989&oldid=50986 * Npaul * (+10)
07:22:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
07:29:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
07:32:03 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion1^.
07:32:08 -!- hppavilion1^ has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
07:32:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to ^hppavilion[1].
07:32:44 -!- ^hppavilion[1] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
07:45:46 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:00:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:04:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:05:29 -!- augur has joined.
08:09:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:13:05 <rdococ> youtube stop giving me suggestions relating to "The <work of fiction> [Idiots] Theorists"
08:13:29 <rdococ> [Idiots] meaning the word is not there but implied, and <work of fiction> can be substituted for any medium eg film or game
08:28:26 -!- augur has joined.
08:38:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:41:23 -!- augur has joined.
09:34:17 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:48:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:03:37 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:05:21 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
10:08:11 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:18:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:37:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graphical Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50990&oldid=50985 * Juju2143 * (+31) /* Examples */
10:37:35 <Jafet> 8 :-) REM what I imagine it looks like
11:07:39 <int-e> rdococ: conform! obey! consume!
11:34:48 -!- boily has joined.
11:50:54 <HackEgo> lettuce//Lettuce is a vegetable with two dressings, join and meet.
11:50:57 <lambdabot> oerjan said 17h 35m 18s ago: * boily thwacks the HackEgo in the random bits <-- will you two be here all week
11:51:15 <boily> @ask oerjan hellørjan. eh?
11:51:29 <b_jonas> and two patties, less than and greater than?
11:53:21 <boily> what is the ground beef of mathematics?
12:02:39 <HackEgo> klein bottle:A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebventions: math:Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, the long line, loc
12:04:22 <HackEgo> angband:Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. \ cipation:A cipation is an evil scheme that only works if no one is prepared for it. \ damnation:The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no lon
12:04:32 <HackEgo> 2/6:the dam no longer held and they got flooded. \ evil:Evil is a special thing, it must be followed by 4 letters of your nickname. It is very evil, and thus is recursive. \ evilipse:evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R \ evil throne:The evil throne belongs to oerjan, when he's not being overthrone. He
12:04:42 <HackEgo> 3/6:rarely sits on it, though, since that time it tried to eat him. \ fabric of reality:The fabric of reality is *not* plaid corduroy, no matter what evil tongues say. \ google:Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ grammar:Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax. \ lystrosaur:
12:05:34 <HackEgo> 4/6:The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date
12:06:00 <HackEgo> 5/6:line. \ overlord:Evil overlords do evil acts like taking over the world, kicking puppies, and changing their own wisdom entries. \ Binary file reflection matches \ unicode:Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the govern
12:06:25 <HackEgo> 6/6:ment to spy on Chinese people.
12:08:13 <boily> b_jellonas, Tanelle, Jafellot.
12:08:18 <boily> Taneb: are you evil?
12:27:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SYNAPSE CHICKEN).
13:10:43 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:37:32 <b_jonas> Debian jessie was released already in 2017-01-14. I missed the news, I thought it would take a few more months.
13:38:11 <b_jonas> no wait, that's the previous release, and it's just an update
13:39:32 <b_jonas> the next version is stretch
13:55:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
13:56:17 <HackEgo> The evil throne belongs to oerjan, when he's not being overthrone. He rarely sits on it, though, since that time it tried to eat him.
13:59:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:07:50 -!- erkin has joined.
14:17:23 -!- furozo has joined.
14:51:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
14:53:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
14:58:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:03:42 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:10:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Theonlygusti * New user account
15:12:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50991&oldid=50987 * Theonlygusti * (+126) /* Introductions */
15:16:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Itflabtijtslwi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50992&oldid=42449 * Theonlygusti * (+335)
15:25:59 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz.
15:26:15 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:42:05 -!- augur has joined.
15:50:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:55:57 <lambdabot> boily asked 4h 4m 42s ago: hellørjan. eh?
15:56:33 <oerjan> @tell boily boily asked 4h 4m 42s ago: hellørjan. eh? <-- you were thwacking HackEgo because of your own mistake
15:57:19 <oerjan> @tell ais523 the new system finally gets a real spammer workout
15:58:58 <oerjan> @tell ais523 wait, misread
16:44:35 <fizzie> Let's maybe just do this thing.
16:44:37 <fizzie> `sled bin/paste//s,\(HACKENV/\|url \)paste,\1tmp/paste,
16:44:39 <HackEgo> bin/paste//#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] && url "$1" 2>/dev/null # Save making a file when it already exists. \ then \ true \ else \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/tmp/paste \ \ url tmp/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/tmp/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ fi
16:44:53 <fizzie> `` echo i am a hacky bot | paste
16:44:54 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/paste/paste.10024
16:47:10 <fizzie> b_jonas: If by system you mean a different (virtual) machine, then no, it's always been www2.codu.org.
16:48:07 <fizzie> (It's just that codu.org runs a reverse proxy kind of thing to hide it for the fshg repository-browser URL, presumably for historical reasons.)
16:51:42 <oerjan> what's new is that fizzie made the tmp/ directory accessible from the web.
16:52:04 <oerjan> so now pastes don't need to go in the repository.
16:52:48 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
16:52:57 <fizzie> I still have reservations about the way I did it, but I guess most of the problems about hosting untrusted content are already present in the fshg raw links.
16:58:25 <b_jonas> fizzie: if you're serving the untrusted content over http, you could add a "X-Robots-Tag: nofollow" HTTP response header, per https://developers.google.com/webmasters/control-crawl-index/docs/robots_meta_tag , which is sort of the equivalent of the ref=nofollow HTML attribute.
16:58:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Itflabtijtslwi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50993&oldid=50992 * Oerjan * (+518) Not so golfable
16:59:02 <nortti> http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/
16:59:52 <fizzie> b_jonas: Does that make a difference if the files are all forced Content-Type: text/plain?
17:00:09 <fizzie> They don't really have proper links to follow, in that case.
17:00:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: the plain text can still have urls in it, so I think so
17:00:37 <fizzie> I also believe I should add "X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff" for IE.
17:01:03 <fizzie> Let's see if I can make that happen with add_header.
17:01:09 -!- augur_ has joined.
17:03:12 <fizzie> That seems to have worked.
17:04:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:06:34 <b_jonas> argh, more brainfuck derivatives
17:10:20 <int-e> . o O ( brainfuck = e^x )
17:12:59 <int-e> is there a compendium of brainfuck derivatives including their genealogy? :P
17:15:21 <oerjan> i think there's a page listing the features some of them implement
17:15:32 <oerjan> but it's not up to date.
17:16:22 <oerjan> `fetch tmp/test http://esolangs.org
17:16:23 <HackEgo> 2017-02-16 17:16:10 URL:http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page [18484] -> "tmp/test" [1]
17:16:29 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/test
17:16:52 <oerjan> well, IE did not turn that into HTML.
17:17:09 <HackEgo> 8 \ diff_help.txt \ foo \ metar \ pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ paste \ spline \ spout \ test \ url
17:17:58 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ icao="$(airport "$*" | sed -e "s/.*, //;s/)//" | head -n 1)" \ echo lambdabot: @metar "${icao:-$1}"
17:18:18 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `tmp/paste': Is a directory
17:18:32 <oerjan> it's supposed to be temporary, after all.
17:25:10 <oerjan> `le/rn tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are too temporary to bother saving in HackEgo history, but which still need to survive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check, so files may simply disappear if you don't know what you're doing. For basic safety, don't modify files inside and outside tmp in the same HackEgo command.
17:25:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'tmp': tmp/ is a directory for files that are too temporary to bother saving in HackEgo history, but which still need to survive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check, so files may simply disappear if you don't know what you're doing. For basic safety, don't modify files inside and outs
17:26:41 <fizzie> oerjan: They may have made their content-sniffing less aggressive even without the header.
17:28:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:28:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
17:28:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:28:20 <oerjan> `le/rn tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still survive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:28:22 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tmp': tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still survive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo c
17:28:39 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still survive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:29:50 <oerjan> i guess that last is slightly over-strict, but better safe than sorry.
17:32:37 <oerjan> `slwd tmp//s,survive,outlive,
17:32:39 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:37:27 <oerjan> `slwd tmp//s,Note,NOTE,;s,disappear,DISAPPEAR,
17:37:28 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:40:55 <oerjan> `slwd tmp//s,NOTE,Note,;s,DISAPPEAR,disappear,
17:40:57 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo comma
17:41:20 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. Note that it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can disappear if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo comma
17:41:28 <shachaf> maybe bold it for the people who disable colors hth
17:41:47 <oerjan> right now that's not the problem...
17:42:31 <oerjan> `slwd tmp//s,Note,NOTE,;s,disappear,DISAPPEAR,;s, that it,: it,
17:42:33 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: it interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check: files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:43:36 <oerjan> `slwd tmp//s,it in,It in,;s,: f,; f,
17:43:37 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
17:44:43 <\oren\> I got around to watching the whole video, and I was wrong. PewDiePie, I misjudged you, you're not a nazi, you're the same idiot swede you've always been.
17:45:12 <oerjan> does he at least vote SD now?
17:45:42 <\oren\> I bet he doesn't even vote, just smears a booger on the ballot
17:45:59 <oerjan> that might count as a vote in sweden afaik
17:47:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:48:57 <\oren\> hmm, apparently they don't use secret ballots in seden
17:49:26 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Sweden#/media/File:Swedish_election_ballots_2014.jpg
17:49:51 <\oren\> they have ballots for each party, and the voter just grabs the one from the party they want openly
17:50:09 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:50:15 <oerjan> um, we have that in norway, but the ballots are in a closed room...
17:51:51 <Phantom_Hoover> so the way that ballots work in the uk is that ambiguous ones get batched together and then representatives of each party get together and agree on how to interpret them
17:52:41 <Phantom_Hoover> this famously lead, a couple of years ago, to a ballot in the western isles which was marked with "wank" next to the names of all of the candidates except the SNP one, who was marked "good guy"
17:52:52 <Phantom_Hoover> this was interpreted as a clear preference and therefore a valid vote
17:53:06 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:54:02 <fizzie> The booths in UK at least where I voted weren't very private.
17:54:02 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:54:07 -!- Zarutian_ has joined.
17:54:08 <fizzie> There was a bit of a screen, but not much.
17:56:04 * oerjan wonders if that swedish policy is artificially reducing SD votes...
17:56:17 <oerjan> because it's too shameful to choose on their ballots
17:57:31 <\oren\> wait WTF sweden? why is your liberal party the right wing one?
18:01:12 <oerjan> in europe, "liberal" has different connotations.
18:02:35 -!- haavard has joined.
18:03:09 <oerjan> apparently they drifted rightward recently.
18:08:53 <HackEgo> cat: bin/grwpi: No such file or directory
18:09:03 <HackEgo> bin/datei \ bin/gwni \ bin/hi \ bin/hyphenate.fi \ bin/ploki \ bin/sqli \ bin/u8tbli \ bin/udcli
18:09:14 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" -- *
18:09:35 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
18:10:44 <HackEgo> 6198:2015-11-08 <b_jonäs> ` echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\nexec sqlite3 :memory: "$@"\' > bin/sqli && chmod a+x bin/sqli
18:11:02 <HackEgo> 9193:2016-10-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/u8tbli//unidecode `u8tbl $1 $2` \ 9192:2016-10-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/u8tbli//unidecode `u8tbl $1 $2 | sed \'s/ //g\'` \ 9191:2016-10-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/u8tbli//u8tbl $1 $2 | sed \'s/ //g\' | unidecode
18:11:15 <HackEgo> 4426:2014-02-09 <km̈c> mv udcli bin/ && chmod +x bin/udcli
18:11:39 <oerjan> huh all were false alarm
18:11:47 <HackEgo> 6178:2015-11-03 <b_jonäs> ` x=bin/datei; >"$x" echo $\'#!/bin/sh\\nexec date --rfc-3=n "$@"\' && chmod a+x "$x" \ 6177:2015-11-03 <b_jonäs> ` x=bin/datei; >"$x" $\'#!/bin/sh\\nexec date --rfc-3=n "$@"\' && chmod a+x "$x"
18:12:13 * oerjan was expecting at least one instance of someone having done sed -ei
18:12:31 <HackEgo> bin/5quote \ bin/addquote \ bin/age \ bin/autowelcome \ bin/before \ bin/bienvenue \ bin/blame \ bin/card-by-name \ bin/define \ bin/delquote \ bin/dice \ bin/disce \ bin/downvote \ bin/elcome \ bin/espletive \ bin/footnote \ bin/fortune \ bin/fueue \ bin/google \ bin/hello-world-in-any-language \ bin/hyfinate \ bin/icode \ bin/loudlye \ bin/lowerc
18:12:50 <HackEgo> 6500:2016-01-03 <Melvär> ` sed -ie \'s/inp[)]$/unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())/\' -e \'2s/$/, locale/\' bin/loudly; \ 6491:2016-01-03 <oerjän> revert 6483 \ 6489:2016-01-03 <oerjän> revert 6486 \ 6488:2016-01-03 <oerjän> revert 6483 \ 6486:2016-01-03 <oerjän> revert \ 6485:2016-01-03 <oer
18:13:30 <HackEgo> 10295:2017-02-16 <oerjän> rm bin/disce \ 7347:2016-04-01 <prooftechniqüe> ` ln -sfv /hackenv/bin/learn /hackenv/bin/disce \ 7346:2016-04-01 <prooftechniqüe> ` ln -sfv /hackenv/bin/slashlearn /hackenv/bin/disce \ 7345:2016-04-01 <prooftechniqüe> ` ln -s bin/slashlearn bin/disce
18:13:53 <oerjan> oh well, it's not a large fraction.
18:13:55 <HackEgo> 4426:2014-02-09 <km̈c> mv udcli bin/ && chmod +x bin/udcli \ 4425:2014-02-09 <km̈c> fetch http://ugcs.net/~keegan/drop/udcli
18:17:02 <oerjan> `` dowg 'tanebventions: math' | grep line
18:17:04 <HackEgo> 9609:2016-11-02 <shachäf> slwd tanebventions: math//s#loc#the long line, &#
18:17:32 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:17:38 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/tanebventions: math' \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file 'wisdom/tanebventions: math.rej'
18:17:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: math.orig wisdom/tanebventions: math.rej
18:17:59 <kmc> hi shachaf
18:18:33 <kmc> what's all this
18:18:43 <oerjan> `sled tanebventions: math//s;the long line, ;;
18:18:44 <shachaf> Do you get highlighted by km̈c?
18:18:59 <oerjan> `slwd tanebventions: math//s;the long line, ;;
18:19:01 <shachaf> It's supposed to avoid pinging people.
18:19:01 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, locales, and histograms.
18:19:13 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:20:21 <oerjan> shachaf: no, there was a url from his domain in ther
18:21:08 <shachaf> Anyway I think oerjan is doing some sort of wisdom surgery but I'm not sure what's going on exactly.
18:21:16 <shachaf> HackEgo has so many great tools nowadays.
18:21:48 <oerjan> well right now i'm removing a fake tanebvention.
18:22:05 <oerjan> and i was optimistically using undo in case it was the last addition.
18:24:24 <oerjan> `slwd tanebventions: math//s;locale;algebraic geometry, locale;
18:24:26 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
18:25:10 <olsner> \oren\: you can obfuscate your choice by picking up a bunch of different ballots before going into the private booth
18:25:57 <shachaf> There used to be a cafeteria at Google called Long Life: https://www.facebook.com/pages/long-life-cafe-Google/142771999118070
18:26:12 <shachaf> But many people called it Long Line because they liked to complain about everything.
18:26:33 <oerjan> people have an uncountable number of complaints.
18:26:55 <shachaf> Even the regular line has an uncountable number of points.
18:27:17 <olsner> iirc one of the motivations for that system is to prevent manipulation of ballots (like stealing the other parties ballots to make them harder to vote for, or replacing them with invalid ones)
18:30:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
18:31:19 -!- furozo has joined.
18:33:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:34:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:12:09 -!- Zarutian_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:14:08 -!- Qunar has joined.
19:14:58 -!- CalvinGames has joined.
19:16:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: I, oerjan, must leave!).
19:16:50 <CalvinGames> I learned yesterday that XOR is not functionally complete.
19:17:34 <CalvinGames> I thought that I could make a different version of Nors.
19:18:50 <CalvinGames> What does NAND have to offer that NOR doesn't?
19:18:53 <rdococ> I'm looking up logical implication right now to see if it could be FC.
19:19:18 <rdococ> well, all functionally complete logical connectives are going to give the same result so I don't see what you're getting at
19:20:39 <CalvinGames> For some reason I have a bias of NOR over NAND. Are there any arguments that one is better than the other?
19:21:37 <rdococ> p → false is equivalent to not p
19:21:57 <rdococ> say p = true, then true → false is clearly false. say p = false, and false → false is true
19:23:01 <CalvinGames> It seems like implies should be FC but intuition tells me no.
19:23:08 <rdococ> OR is equivalent to (p → false) → q, or ¬¬p∨q
19:23:26 <rdococ> nope, turns out → is indeed FC
19:23:37 <rdococ> is the name of your new language.
19:23:49 <rdococ> tho you'll need true and false constants
19:23:59 <rdococ> actually p → p is always true
19:24:48 <rdococ> you might need a false value F but it'll work. unless you want symmetry.
19:25:37 <rdococ> the only symmetric gates are OR, AND, XOR, and their inverses.
19:25:49 <rdococ> since NXOR is only as FC as XOR itself is
19:26:14 <rdococ> you're stuck with NOR, NAND, or the less symmetric but more original IMPLIES.
19:26:29 <rdococ> as long as you have a false constant. without the ability to specify false you're stuck.
19:26:54 <CalvinGames> Implieses is more powerful than Nors however.
19:26:57 <rdococ> you could give every gate an extra input f that's always meant to be false
19:27:03 <rdococ> but that's a bit hacky
19:27:28 <rdococ> as in v(p, q, f) = (p → f) → q
19:27:42 <CalvinGames> It isn't as hacky as using NOTs like in Nors.
19:28:21 <rdococ> you don't need to use NOT gates, ¬(pvp) is equivalent to ¬p
19:31:04 <CalvinGames> Nors is only TC if you can invert some bits in the initial state.
19:31:48 <CalvinGames> You cannot possibly implement a XOR b without it.
19:33:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Implieses]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50994 * Calvin Games * (+876) Created page with "'''Implieses''' is a [[Zero Instruction Set Computer]] created by Calvin Games and rdococ on February 16, 2017. It is Turing complete because it is equivalent to a 2-tag syste..."
19:34:30 <rdococ> a XOR b = (a OR b) AND (a NAND b)
19:34:49 <rdococ> now, a AND b = NOT ((NOT a) OR (NOT b))
19:35:11 -!- Qunar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:35:17 <rdococ> a OR b = NOT (a NOR b)
19:35:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
19:36:58 <CalvinGames> 01001100aabb¬a¬a¬b¬b returns a XOR b. There is no initial state in Nors that can return a XOR b without including ¬a or ¬b in itself.
19:38:46 <rdococ> "outputs the successive bits in Pn."?
19:39:17 <rdococ> so say it was 101101010, would it output 01101010 (or its equivalent character)?
19:39:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:40:17 <rdococ> 1111111111111111111... to infinity is technically a quine :P
19:40:26 <rdococ> but I guess that doesn't count
19:41:16 <CalvinGames> I don't consider that as dippy as 01001100aabb¬a¬a¬b¬b.
19:42:07 <rdococ> 01001100aabb¬a¬a¬b¬b... "odd bits of Pn NOR the even bits of Pn." assume a = 1 and b = 0 so 0100110011000011 so 01010110, 0000, 11...er
19:42:20 <APic> In a 0-dimensional World, every 0 looks like a 1 and/or the other Way round. ☺
19:42:20 <rdococ> does the first bit of Pn count as an odd or even bit?
19:42:48 <rdococ> can you make any other gate with it?
19:43:14 <CalvinGames> That doesn't matter because NOR is symmetrical.
19:44:19 <CalvinGames> You can make any gate as long as you allow ¬n in the initial state.
19:44:55 <rdococ> 0100110011000011 01010110 0000 11... by your method 1 NOR 0 outputs 1
19:45:20 <rdococ> APic: in a 0-dimensional world you would be 0
19:45:32 <rdococ> in fact, in a 0-dimensional world only one point can exist
19:45:37 <rdococ> 1 NOR 0 is meant to be 0
19:46:15 <rdococ> 0100110011001100 01010101 0000 11
19:46:29 <APic> rdococ: I already know i am a Solipsist, but thanks Mate ;)
19:46:54 <rdococ> 0100110000001111 01011100 0001 10
19:47:15 <rdococ> I think you accidentally implemented OR...
19:47:44 <rdococ> 0100110011110000 01010011 0010 10 0... wait
19:49:31 <CalvinGames> Are you simulating Nors? What is the goal of that program?
19:49:40 <rdococ> I'm going through the steps
19:49:54 <rdococ> how about 0aa. 000 -> 1-er
19:50:18 <rdococ> 00aa? 1!a... so 00aa is 1!a
19:51:41 <rdococ> 00aa -> 1!a -> printing !a
19:52:46 <CalvinGames> But aa by itself will either return 1 if a=1 or nothing if a=0
19:53:18 <CalvinGames> I'll just replace the description in Implieses with the equivalent Tag system.
19:53:31 -!- CalvinGames has quit (Quit: Page closed).
19:53:55 <rdococ> a XOR b = (a OR b) AND (a NAND b)
19:54:17 <rdococ> a OR b = ((a NOR b) NOR (a NOR b)) = abab
19:54:26 <rdococ> a XOR b = (abab) AND (a NAND b)
19:55:18 <rdococ> a AND b = (NOT a) NOR (NOT b) = aabb
19:56:14 <rdococ> a XOR b = (abab)(abab)aabbaabb?
19:58:23 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:06:57 <shachaf> Why don't stock options etc. get adjusted for dividends?
20:17:51 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:24:16 -!- augur has joined.
20:24:45 -!- _-___-_ has joined.
20:24:45 -!- _-___-_ has left.
20:28:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:31:21 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:31:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:38:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:40:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Implieses]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50995&oldid=50994 * Calvin Games * (+87)
20:49:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:53:07 <Taneb> wob_jonas, Birmingham, I believe
20:53:38 <Taneb> shachaf, York, currently
20:54:17 <Taneb> I'm more of a fan of the classics
20:54:30 <shachaf> You already upgraded your Haskell compiler.
20:54:41 <shachaf> So it makes sense to upgrade your location to match.
20:54:43 <\oren\> PewDiePie did nothing wrong
20:54:46 <Taneb> (I don't find large cities comfortable to hang around in for a while)
20:55:48 <shachaf> How do you feel about Berkeley, CA?
20:55:59 <Taneb> I don't think I've ever been
20:56:08 <Taneb> Is it near Los Angeles
20:56:57 <Taneb> That's not very near
20:57:35 <shachaf> I'll give you a bunch of Magic: The Gathering cards to make it worth your while.
20:58:30 <fizzie> shachaf: Does the BART go to Berkeley?
20:58:46 <fizzie> I think I may have seen it on the BART map then.
20:59:33 -!- augur has joined.
21:00:41 <\oren\> the daily stormer just rebranded itself
21:00:44 <\oren\> "the world's #1 Wall Street Journal Fansite"
21:01:21 <fizzie> shachaf: I've only taken it from SFO to Millbrae to get to the Caltrain.
21:01:44 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:01:57 <fizzie> I think that was a yellow line and then a red line.
21:02:02 <shachaf> "Today, the Millbrae BART station is the largest intermodal terminal west of the Mississippi, featuring a cross-platform connection to Caltrain."
21:02:06 <shachaf> https://www.bart.gov/stations/mlbr
21:02:14 <shachaf> What do you think of that?
21:02:22 <fizzie> It didn't look that big.
21:25:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:40:54 -!- krok_ has joined.
21:47:01 <doesthiswork> something interesting today was that my girlfriend thought that a 'for' statement initialized the index variable to a time sequence of values so that any expression that used that variable would be applied to each of those values in turn.
21:48:09 <shachaf> You can almost think of it that way in Haskell.
21:48:10 <doesthiswork> I think I've seen people do that with continuations
21:48:28 <wob_jonas> shachaf: um what? Haskell has for statements?
21:48:33 <fizzie> `` echo ^something-else/ >> .hgignore
21:49:18 <shachaf> `` rm -rf .hgignore; mkdir .hgignore
21:49:19 <doesthiswork> the only change she had to make was moving the expression so that it was within the body of the for statement
21:49:28 <fizzie> shachaf: This time I thought about that.
21:49:37 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:50:06 <fizzie> There's probably something else I didn't think about, though. I'll let oerjan come up with that.
21:50:19 <shachaf> > do { x <- [1..10]; return (x+1) }
21:50:23 <fizzie> shachaf: https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackbot/commits/d2b76e62
21:51:26 <HackEgo> code:[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... \ evilipse:evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil peop
21:51:26 <fizzie> At least I don't think my change made that worse.
21:51:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: New graphics driver reboot).
21:51:56 <HackEgo> ---------- 1 5000 0 6 Feb 16 21:49 .hgignore
21:52:10 <fizzie> I think you probably broke it.
21:52:14 <shachaf> fizzie: Why don't you just use a .hgignore outside the repository?
21:52:21 <shachaf> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12783198/local-mercurial-ignore-file
21:52:45 <fizzie> shachaf: Because I could not figure out a way to ignore the .hgignore inside the repository.
21:53:18 <fizzie> Although it might be easier to enforce "this file should not exist" than "this file should be like that".
21:53:29 <shachaf> Oh, hg has one global .hgignore file, not per-directory like git.
21:53:54 <wob_jonas> shachaf: git allows per directory too
21:54:14 <shachaf> Why do you care about people adding additional ignores?
21:56:06 -!- FreeFull has joined.
22:00:55 <fizzie> shachaf: Because it's too easy to get into messy situations by ignoring everything. Also, it's th to have the ignore list be somehow halfway between immutable and mutable.
22:09:04 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:11:06 <fizzie> `` for t in th tb; do \? $t; done # sorry, temporary merge conflicts
22:11:08 <HackEgo> th? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ tb? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:14:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:15:10 <fizzie> Wonder if there's other magical files inside the repository that hg treats specially.
22:15:27 <wob_jonas> presumably there are some that it ignores
22:15:55 <fizzie> `` echo would this have been a feasible way to maintain unversioned state > some-stuff; chmod 0 some-stuff
22:16:11 <fizzie> `` chmod 400 some-stuff; cat some-stuff; chmod 0 some-stuff
22:16:13 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `some-stuff': No such file or directory \ cat: some-stuff: No such file or directory \ chmod: cannot access `some-stuff': No such file or directory
22:16:54 <fizzie> I guess that won't work because of the cleanup.
22:19:23 <fizzie> Yeah, it does make a file that doesn't get committed in, but then the next command causes it to be deleted, because hg things the repository is dirty and cleans it up (and rerunning the next command obviously won't recreate it).
22:20:27 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create hard link `test1' => `/dev/zero': Invalid cross-device link
22:21:21 <\oren\> ｈｅｙ ｉｆ Ｉ ｓａｙ ｅｖｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｌｉｋｅ ｔｈｉｓ ａｍ ｉ ｖａｐｏｒｗａｖｅ
22:26:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:30:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:30:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
22:30:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:35:40 -!- juju2143 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:37:08 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
22:37:28 <wob_jonas> Question. Is there a trusted third party public service that publishes public keys for which they will publish the private key at some predetermined time in the future, so that you can make crypto commitments that will be revealed at that predetermined time even if you disappear?
22:38:49 <shachaf> i,i https://www.gwern.net/Self-decrypting%20files
22:55:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:56:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:57:49 <\oren\> wob_jonas: you could make one?
22:58:30 <\oren\> and host it in like, russia
22:58:45 <wob_jonas> \oren\: not currently, because I'm not currently paying for a good enough persistently online server
22:59:16 <wob_jonas> that is, one that's both reliable in that you can trust it will be online in the future, and secure
22:59:34 <wob_jonas> also, this has to be ran by a *trusted* third party. why would you trust me/
23:00:51 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH).
23:04:39 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:06:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:08:44 -!- erdic has joined.
23:13:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:13:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:13:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:17:19 -!- erkin has joined.
23:18:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:27:11 -!- boily has joined.
23:27:49 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:28:07 -!- erkin has joined.
23:28:35 <HackEgo> future//We know nothing about the future.
23:28:37 <lambdabot> oerjan said 7h 32m 4s ago: boily asked 4h 4m 42s ago: hellørjan. eh? <-- you were thwacking HackEgo because of your own mistake
23:29:05 <HackEgo> 1/2:mason jar//A Mason jar is a jar made by someone named Mason. \ brain//Brains are just receptacles for bricks. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people. \ onëliner//onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance. \ york//York used to b
23:34:28 * boily autothwacks himself to restore balance
23:35:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:35:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:35:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:48:33 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:52:21 <boily> hellochaf, wellob_jo`nas.
23:53:27 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:53:42 -!- tromp has joined.
23:58:46 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:59:16 -!- atehwa has joined.
00:01:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:06:01 <boily> `le/rn An erkin is a sort of small ickle, popular in Stern Urope.
00:06:02 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
00:06:09 <boily> `le//rn An erkin is a sort of small ickle, popular in Stern Urope.
00:06:09 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
00:06:18 <fizzie> In the *format*, not in the command name.
00:06:20 <boily> `learn An erkin is a sort of small ickle, popular in Stern Urope.
00:06:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'erkin': An erkin is a sort of small ickle, popular in Stern Urope.
00:06:28 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAA!
00:07:06 <boily> fizziello. I do not have a recent history of confuzzling HackEgo. sleep deprivation has nothing to do with that.
00:07:26 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:14:27 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
00:14:48 <moonythedwarf> i noticed the esolang http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_(Keymaker) and i've been pondering if its Turing Complete, any ideas?
00:18:34 -!- atehwa has joined.
00:19:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
00:37:33 <HackEgo> //everyone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:38:28 <boily> mhelloonythellodwarf. it looks similar to BCT, so it may be TC maybe?
00:40:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:46:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:47:22 -!- FreeFull has joined.
00:54:34 -!- sebbu has joined.
00:55:42 <boily> alercah: hellorcah. will you Montréal this June for the Tile?
00:55:55 <fizzie> `` grwp -l 'e.*v.*e.*r.*y.*o.*n.*e.*:.*W.*e.*l.*c.*o' | head -n 1 | hd
00:55:56 <HackEgo> 000000 03 0a >..< \ 000002
00:56:31 <fizzie> Oh, it was in the simpler thing as well, just didn't notice.
00:57:13 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:57:14 <HackEgo> 3616:2013-09-03 <Rouj̈o> relcome everyone > wisdom/\x03 \ 3615:2013-09-03 <Rouj̈o> echo \x03 > wisdom/\x03
00:57:25 <fizzie> Guess it was intentional then.
00:58:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:58:30 <fizzie> Odd, but intentional. Oddentional.
00:59:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:00:10 <fizzie> oerjan: I did the "no edits to .hgignore" thing, at least up to some point.
01:01:31 <oerjan> @tell CalvinGames <CalvinGames> What does NAND have to offer that NOR doesn't? <-- they're duals of each other, so not much.
01:01:42 <fizzie> oerjan: It's got one more letter.
01:02:15 <oerjan> you are technically correct, etc.
01:03:02 <fizzie> Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
01:04:07 <oerjan> @tell rdococ <rdococ> you might need a false value F but it'll work. unless you want symmetry. <-- yep. didn't i mention post's lattice already...
01:04:13 <oerjan> fizzie: that was the etc. part.
01:04:34 <fizzie> 5. technical -- (resulting from or dependent on market factors rather than fundamental economic considerations; "analysts content that the stock market is due for a technical rally"; "the fall is only a technical correction")
01:08:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:20:06 <Jafet> technically, it is the only kind of correct
01:30:25 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:34:49 <oerjan> fizzie: for some reason i'm unable to view https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackbot/src/b78838e4ef4696f34106bdc06005b6fb74b89122/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd?at=default
01:35:08 <oerjan> ...and there it fixed itself
01:38:14 <oerjan> fizzie: it seems to me that if anything manages to raise and error inside the try, the rest of the cleanup won't work?
01:38:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:40:05 * oerjan swellots boily -----###
01:42:59 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/spout
01:46:20 -!- Perenelle has joined.
01:50:57 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:51:51 <fizzie> oerjan: bitbucket's source view is a little oddishly slow sometimes. Yeah, that's fair -- in fact, I think would have broken if you just removed .hgignore entirely, because of that. Fixed now.
01:51:58 <fizzie> oerjan: Can you tell there are no unit tests?
01:53:12 <oerjan> fizzie: also, your PR at Gregor's bitbucket doesn't mention the latest changes
01:53:31 <fizzie> Oh, does it have the commits?
01:53:36 <fizzie> I didn't know Bitbucket would do that.
01:54:16 <fizzie> I would have liked to use separate branches for this, but I couldn't figure out a good way to then update the live HackEgo without making it very confusing.
01:55:05 <oerjan> maybe you could use separate branches, but merge into your own default branch?
01:55:31 <fizzie> Mmmmaybe. It's a little too late now.
02:12:18 <tswett> Okay, is THIS definition of a triangle correct?:
02:12:31 <tswett> A triangle is the union of three line segments such that the intersections are exactly the endpoints.
02:14:06 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
02:15:20 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:15:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/dowg¯\(°_o)/¯: No such file or directory
02:16:04 <HackEgo> 4800:2014-09-10 <oerjän> mkdir wisdom/\'\xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)\'; learn \'\xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)/\xc2\xaf is a misspelling of \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf\'
02:16:14 <tswett> I'm trying to reason through my proposed definition, here.
02:16:39 <oerjan> tswett: looks good to me
02:17:00 <tswett> We've got three line segments. All of their endpoints must be intersections. So this certainly means, at least, that "triangles" must be connected.
02:17:19 <tswett> I'm trying to think... given that a point is an endpoint, what can we conclude?
02:17:29 <tswett> Like, suppose we have a line segment AB, with an endpoint A.
02:17:53 <tswett> Well, A must be an intersection, so there's another line segment containing A.
02:18:19 <oerjan> as much B. and those cannot be the same segment.
02:19:18 <tswett> Right, there can't be another line segment containing both A and B.
02:19:37 <tswett> So there must be line segments L and M, besides AB, such that L contains A and M contains B.
02:19:49 <tswett> So how do we show that A is an endpoint of L?
02:20:18 <tswett> Well, if A is *not* an endpoint of L, that means that L contains two endpoints besides A (and besides B).
02:20:31 <tswett> So we can relabel L as CD, and C and D, being endpoints, must also be intersections.
02:20:35 <boily> fungot: before I go to sleep, sandefjordsmør.
02:20:35 <fungot> boily: is debian's gnome meant to feel fnord? well those and the list is empty
02:20:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SERIOUS CHICKEN).
02:21:13 * oerjan has no idea how sandefjordsmør tastes
02:22:06 <oerjan> C and D cannot be on AB. but they also cannot be on the third segment. contradiction.
02:22:21 <tswett> Yeah, that pretty much does it.
02:22:30 <tswett> No two of the segments can share multiple points.
02:23:24 <tswett> So... the fact that no two segments can share multiple points, along with the fact that each segment has to have exactly two intersections, means that each segment intersects each other segment at exactly one point.
02:24:10 <tswett> You have to have two intersections, but you can't have two intersections with the same segment, so you have to have two intersections with two different segments.
02:25:20 <tswett> Well, there only exist two other segments at all.
02:25:43 <oerjan> yes, but that's how you prove there's exactly two
02:27:06 <tswett> Right, so line segment AB intersects the other two segments, L and M, at A and B, respectively. L has to have A as an endpoint, because if not (and its endpionts are C and D), then C has to lie on M (since it can't lie on AB since that would mean sharing multiple points), and D likewise has tolie on M, but C and D can't both lie on M.
02:27:38 <tswett> So all this, applying some WLOG, means that the line segments can be written as AB, AC, and BD, with C and D not necessarily distinct.
02:27:56 <tswett> Well, C has to be an intersection, and it can't be an intersection with AB, so it has to be an intersection with BD.
02:28:06 <tswett> Likewise, D has to be an intersection with AC.
02:28:23 <tswett> This means that AC and BD share point C, and they share point D, so we have C = D.
02:28:55 <tswett> Thus, we have line segments AB, AC, and BC, with no intersections besides the endpoints.
02:31:14 <HackEgo> An erkin is a sort of small ickle, popular in Stern Urope.
02:31:38 <oerjan> i'm not entirely sure there's a common logic to what's left off
02:33:43 <HackEgo> sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.
02:33:51 <tswett> Yeah, I don't immediately see what logic would produce Stern Urope.
02:34:01 <tswett> What's the difference between those two digraphs? Or is it their environment?
02:34:51 <tswett> You're not going to force me to communicate clearly, are you?
02:35:13 <oerjan> well, it goes like 2-1-2-1
02:35:49 <tswett> You're suggesting that the chop isn't determined entirely by the content of the word? This is adness.
02:36:41 <tswett> Maybe the ule is that you can't alter the onunciation of the word too much.
02:36:54 <tswett> "Rope" is pronounced way too ongly.
02:39:03 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//1s,'.*','Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>',
02:39:04 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed
02:40:19 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//2s,'.*','Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>',
02:40:21 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
02:40:38 <HackEgo> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
02:41:24 <shachaf> What's the point of that [/]?
02:44:17 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
02:45:23 <shachaf> That joke is no longer applicable. :-(
02:49:07 <shachaf> At the time, the joke was that le/rn couldn't be used to create the entry le/rn, because it didn't support entries containing /.
02:55:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:56:22 <HackEgo> tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
02:56:30 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
02:56:37 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/abc
03:05:33 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
03:05:52 -!- staffehn has joined.
03:10:17 <HackEgo> http://www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot/tmp/abc
03:12:59 <HackEgo> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
03:13:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/abc/def
03:21:34 <fizzie> I was once wondering if I should make those URLs something like http[s]://hackego.esolangs.org/{fshg,tmp}/... instead.
03:22:46 <fizzie> (Or more preferably http://hackegousercontent.com/... but domains don't grow in trees.)
03:22:54 -!- zzo38 has joined.
03:43:34 -!- deepbook5broo has joined.
04:04:23 -!- adu has joined.
04:23:03 <HackEgo> cat: bin/edit: No such file or directory
04:29:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
04:29:31 <shachaf> `` >bin/edit echo '#!/usr/bin/env python'; >>bin/edit echo 'import sys, urllib'; >>bin/edit echo 'print "http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=" + urllib.quote(sys.argv[1])'; chmod +x bin/edit
04:29:39 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=tmp/spout
04:30:25 <shachaf> `` >bin/edit echo '#!/usr/bin/env python'; >>bin/edit echo 'import sys, os, urllib'; >>bin/edit echo 'print "http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=" + urllib.quote(os.path.realpath(sys.argv[1]))'; chmod +x bin/edit
04:30:29 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/tmp/spout
04:30:33 -!- Perenelle has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:30:57 <shachaf> `fetch /hackenv/tmp/spout http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspout
04:30:58 <HackEgo> In another world: /hackenv/tmp/spout
04:31:07 <shachaf> `fetch tmp/spout http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspout
04:31:08 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 04:30:54 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspout [0/0] -> "tmp/spout" [1]
04:34:01 <zzo38> When are you going to implement Checkout on GPU?
04:34:35 <shachaf> `fetch tmp/spline http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline
04:34:36 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 04:34:22 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline [3/3] -> "tmp/spline" [1]
04:35:31 <shachaf> `fetch /hackenv/bin/edit http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Fbin%2Fedit
04:35:32 <HackEgo> In another world: /hackenv/bin/edit
04:35:37 <shachaf> `fetch bin/edit http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Fbin%2Fedit
04:35:38 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 04:35:24 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Fbin%2Fedit [210/210] -> "bin/edit" [1]
04:36:31 <HackEgo> 0000000: 2321 2f75 7372 2f62 696e 2f65 6e76 2070 #!/usr/bin/env p \ 0000010: 7974 686f 6e0d 0a0d 0a69 6d70 6f72 7420 ython....import \ 0000020: 7379 732c 206f 732c 2075 726c 6c69 620d sys, os, urllib. \ 0000030: 0a0d 0a69 6620 6c65 6e28 7379 732e 6172 ...if len(sys.ar \ 0000040: 6776 2920 3c20 323a 0d0a 2020 7072 696e gv) < 2:.. prin \ 00000
04:40:53 * oerjan cannot imagine why files are not dumped as bytes by default
04:42:25 <shachaf> `fetch bin/edit http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Fbin%2Fedit
04:42:26 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 04:42:12 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Fbin%2Fedit [201/201] -> "bin/edit" [1]
04:42:48 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/bin/abc
04:42:56 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/tmp/spout
04:43:17 <shachaf> `fetch tmp/spout http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspout
04:43:18 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 04:43:04 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspout [13/13] -> "tmp/spout" [1]
04:44:09 <oerjan> i sense an off by one error
04:44:19 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6f6e 650a 7477 6f0a 7468 7265 65 one.two.three
04:44:29 <shachaf> So the wrapping logic happens too early.
04:44:43 <shachaf> Anyway, this will be good enough for editing, I guess.
04:45:00 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Fri Feb 17 04:44:59 2017
04:45:07 <shachaf> @tell fizzie please allow absolute paths in `fetch twh
04:48:50 <oerjan> shachaf: you could also strip the /hackenv/ in your page hth
04:49:04 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
04:49:34 <shachaf> oerjan: I could. In fact I do it anyway when I fetch the files.
04:49:42 <shachaf> But `fetch ought to support canonical paths.
04:50:24 <oerjan> i didn't know wc -l was this scow
04:51:29 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/bin/url
04:57:23 <oerjan> what was the awk in bin/spam for, agai
04:59:27 <HackEgo> 8289:2016-06-03 <shachäf> mkx bin/spam//line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline \ 8292:2016-06-03 <shachäf> mkx bin/spam//line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk \'{print $1}\')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout
05:00:00 <shachaf> Maybe because wc precedes the line count with whitespace?
05:00:22 <shachaf> Oh, no, it includes the name.
05:00:58 <shachaf> `` cat tmp/spout | wc -l | xxd
05:01:15 <shachaf> The annoying thing is that I have a hilight on that domain name.
05:07:44 <shachaf> `` cd bin; wc * | sort -rn
05:07:53 <HackEgo> 160398 430569 17108271 total \ 103525 133799 3407446 macro \ 19353 57384 592337 word \ 9289 48572 3027945 jq \ 7751 45913 1638192 7za \ 5254 42641 2301021 tclkit \ 4853 27899 1613113 units \ 1645 9418 415968 ploki \ 1428 13345 806552 udcli \ 1224 4048 44974 gs2.py \
05:22:15 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
05:23:03 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....¤@.....@.......b..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....ø.......ø....................8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@.....W......W........ ............à]......à]`.....à]`.....°......`........ ...........ø]......ø]`.....ø]`.....à.......à................
05:23:35 <HackEgo> 2787:2013-04-23 <noood̈l> ln -s /bin/echo bin/nooodl:
05:23:42 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/wisdom/pikhq
05:30:08 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:35:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
05:37:00 -!- deepbook5broo has left.
05:44:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jolverine Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50996&oldid=33932 * Oerjan * (+48) Why isn't this on by default...
05:56:33 -!- The has joined.
05:56:43 -!- The has changed nick to TheNeolutionist.
05:57:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:57:56 -!- TheNeolutionist has left.
07:19:59 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:21:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit).
07:24:16 <int-e> fizzie: "Oerjan * (+48) Why isn't this on by default..." <-- the CSS served by esolangs has two entries for pre,.mw-code; the first one sets white-space:pre, and the second one sets white-space:pre-wrap; As a wild guess, maybe the former is a wikimedia default and the latter may be some custom theme?
07:29:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:00:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:12:34 <rdococ> when I make an antivirus, it will detect windows as spyware
08:25:04 -!- augur has joined.
09:18:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:19:14 -!- augur has joined.
09:22:45 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
09:23:34 <fizzie> shachaf: The problem with absolute paths is that "/hackenv" is not a path from the perspective of `fetch.
09:24:03 <fizzie> /hackenv is a piece of fiction inside the sandbox, but `fetch doesn't run inside it.
09:24:22 <fizzie> It already supports absolute paths if you make them the right kind of absolute paths.
09:24:54 <fizzie> What do you need absolute paths for anyway?
09:27:49 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:29:47 <fizzie> @ask shachaf What does the "Edit" button do? And see above for some comments on absolute paths.
09:34:00 <b_jonas> fizzie: what? I can download to an absolute path, and I can overwrite the sandboxing executable with it?
09:34:23 <int-e> fizzie: the "edit" button updates the on-server copy of the file to what's in the textarea...
09:35:07 <int-e> fizzie: apparently the workflow is clickfetch -> edit textarea -> click edit -> copy command line displayed at top to hackego
09:35:28 <fizzie> Oh, "on-server" as in the one that comes out of /get. Right. Got it.
09:35:37 <fizzie> @tell shachaf Never mind, I was already told.
09:35:59 <fizzie> b_jonas: You can download to an absolute path if it's within the directory that shows up as /hackenv inside the sandbox.
09:36:16 <fizzie> (And outside .hg and so on.)
09:36:31 <int-e> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=foobar
09:45:35 <fizzie> It's not common knowledge what that path is, but I think there was some way it shows up.
09:46:27 <fizzie> `` cat /proc/mounts | grep /hackenv
09:46:28 <HackEgo> none /hackenv hostfs rw,nosuid,relatime,/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/ 0 0 \ none /hackenv/.hg hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/ 0 0
09:46:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:47:17 <fizzie> `fetch /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/tmp/test http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline
09:47:19 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 09:47:04 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline [0/0] -> "tmp/test" [1]
09:47:52 <int-e> ugh, how secure is that?
09:51:41 <fizzie> Discussed off-channel.
09:52:01 <fizzie> `fetch /hackenv/tmp/test http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline
09:52:02 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 09:51:48 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=%2Fhackenv%2Ftmp%2Fspline [0/0] -> "tmp/test" [1]
09:52:35 <fizzie> Made that work too, although in the simplest possible way (just scrubbing "/hackenv/" out if the argument starts with that).
10:00:21 <b_jonas> fizzie: wait, you put the filename _before_ the url? ouch
10:02:55 -!- augur_ has joined.
10:03:09 <fizzie> b_jonas: Yes, because of
10:03:10 <fizzie> <oerjan> `fetch minsk https://esolangs.org/wiki/The Amnesiac From Minsk
10:03:10 <fizzie> <HackEgo> 2017-02-16 01:05:46 URL:https://esolangs.org/wiki/The%20Amnesiac%20From%20Minsk [41183] -> "minsk" [1]
10:03:44 <fizzie> It seemed to me the URL was more likely (even if it's not all *that* likely) to contain spaces than the filename.
10:06:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:11:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:11:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
10:11:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:51:36 <lambdabot> fizzie asked 1h 21m 49s ago: What does the "Edit" button do? And see above for some comments on absolute paths.
10:51:36 <lambdabot> fizzie said 1h 15m 59s ago: Never mind, I was already told.
10:52:52 <shachaf> int-e: Yes, just a mutable pastebin that supports fetching from codu.
10:53:59 <shachaf> I think it's sufficient for simple changes to multiline files.
10:54:33 <shachaf> fizzie: Anyway I already updated the `fetch command to remove /hackenv/
10:55:24 <shachaf> fizzie: Why not support HTTP inside the sandbox? Wasn't that possible in the past?
10:57:29 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think it's deliberately limited that way
10:57:55 <b_jonas> it would be possible to allow it, but users could abuse that
10:59:34 <shachaf> I thought there was a proxy once.
11:01:44 <b_jonas> At one point I added an experimental function to jevalbot that could send any command to buubot and wait for the reply. This was a true function so it could be called (multiple times) programmably from a jeval command.
11:02:06 <b_jonas> That was an experiment on what kind of limited external interfacing I could add in it
11:05:04 <fizzie> shachaf: There was a proxy with a whitelist of addresses.
11:05:23 <fizzie> I don't think it's been set up in the new system, that's all.
11:06:14 <fizzie> There's still the port forwarding out of umlbox, and probably proxy environment settings, but nothing listening on it.
11:07:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
11:10:40 <shachaf> What happened with CALESYTA 2016?
11:11:20 <shachaf> https://esolangs.org/wiki/CALESYTA says the website was taken down as of Jan 2016. I guess it means 2017.
11:13:02 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
11:14:29 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:35:38 -!- boily has joined.
12:16:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: it fell off the internet
12:16:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMITATION CHICKEN).
12:16:39 <b_jonas> and yes, it means 2017-01, sorry, I always make that kind of mistake near the start of the year
12:16:48 <b_jonas> I keep writing 2016 in dates still and it's february
12:17:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CALESYTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50997&oldid=50830 * B jonas * (+0) /* 2016 CE */
12:17:29 -!- Qunar has joined.
12:36:12 -!- Qunar has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat).
12:44:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:15:58 <HackEgo> Tinder Wall \ G \ Creature -- Plant Wall \ 0/3 \ Defender (This creature can't attack.) \ Sacrifice Tinder Wall: Add {R}{R} to your mana pool. \ {R}, Sacrifice Tinder Wall: Tinder Wall deals 2 damage to target creature it's blocking. \ IA-C, ME2-C
13:37:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
13:45:15 <b_jonas> Stupid M:TG question. What the heck is rule 702.42a for? It talks about a creature having multiple instances of modular, but as far as I can see, that's impossible. It's not an activated ability, so it can't be stolen, and there's nothing printed that gives modular to any object.
13:51:01 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:08:09 -!- ski has joined.
14:37:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50998&oldid=50989 * Calvin Games * (+16) /* I */
14:53:02 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:54:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
14:54:29 -!- heroux has joined.
14:55:07 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
14:59:09 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:13:37 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:14:15 -!- heroux has joined.
15:17:55 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
15:22:24 <HackEgo> ions; chopped \ 4 tb Sugar \ 1 ds Pepper sauce \ 1 c Kikkoman salt \ \ Preheat oven to 350F. On let stand around the bones with a skewers. Arrange peaks \ in a glass skillet chopped fresh golden pecans with freeze or the mustard \ sauces has barbecue. Remove and canned the cookies, and cook \ till the flavors (about 30-45 minutes). FATFREE
15:23:00 <b_jonas> "On let stand around the bones with a skewers."?
15:23:27 <b_jonas> and "glass skillet"? definitely has a skillet obsession
15:23:55 <b_jonas> but at least it's fat-rfee
15:34:09 -!- rottytooth has joined.
15:35:00 -!- rottytooth has quit (Client Quit).
15:37:54 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:38:39 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:38:47 -!- rottytooth has joined.
15:39:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
15:46:47 -!- tromp has joined.
15:54:03 <HackEgo> le boiler till the mixture is absorbed. Remove and blend until the \ consistenches from the heat and stir in the flour, and all the vegetables \ and toss in boiling water. Sprinkle with \ the reserved star the milk. Sprinkle a serving with rice, or brown stockered, and \ tear's freezed with the following as possible. \ \ In large bowl, combi
15:54:43 * zgrep tries to prepare chopped ions
15:55:22 <zzo38> b_jonas: Do you mean 702.42b? In my opinion that rule is redundant but may be for clarification; but at least I like to have the rules even in cases that there may be no existing cards, although rule 702.42b is unnecessary anyways.
15:58:23 -!- otherbot has joined.
16:04:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, I mean 702.42b, sorry
16:05:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: my problem is that it both looks like a clarification rule that doesn't add anything to the other rules but an explanation, but it also refers to a situation that's clearly impossible, and isn't even likely to happen in the future accidentally from a rules hole, so I don't see why they need to clarify it?
16:06:46 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, although I think the clarification is unnecessary even if it can happen in future; it is clear enough already I think.
16:07:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: there are some rules that only give reminders about other rules for common situations, that I understand; and there are rules that refer to situations that are probably impossible but could occasionally result from accidental rules holes and tries to mitigate them, I can understand that too.
16:07:39 <b_jonas> but I don't get the combination
16:07:49 <b_jonas> also, #mtgrules confirmed that the situation is impossilbe
16:08:14 <b_jonas> (so it's not just some obscure thing like Cairn Wonderer printed with "modular" in the list that I didn't notice)
16:08:16 -!- furozo has joined.
16:08:39 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, although in this case I think it is clear enough anyways, that a clarification shouldn't be needed even if it is possible; other rules make it clear, I think.
16:09:48 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
16:13:24 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:19:48 <int-e> so are there any static abilities that have no reminder or rule about what happens when they're duplicated?
16:20:17 <int-e> (well, keyword abilities)
16:20:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50999&oldid=47172 * Rottytooth * (+79)
16:20:23 <b_jonas> int-e: there probably are, in cases when it's obvious
16:20:57 <b_jonas> do you specifically want static only, as opposed to modular?
16:21:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
16:25:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:25:27 <ais523> b_jonas: fizzie: AFAICT, the weird nonUTF8 garbage in the Google ngrams files is meant to be a comma
16:25:42 <ais523> every other ASCII punctuation mark is in the files, but not comma, and the garbage has a frequency that's really believable for commas
16:26:51 <b_jonas> ais523! you're here, I didn't see you enter
16:27:00 <int-e> b_jonas: maybe it would be fair to consider keyword abilities in general. I guess I don't really know what I'm after.
16:27:21 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HF2InFzcdI
16:28:16 <ais523> b_jonas: what's the question?
16:28:39 <b_jonas> int-e: buyback doesn't have such a reminder rule
16:29:42 <b_jonas> even though some people can lead a second bike next to them while cycling slowly
16:30:35 <b_jonas> echo, fading, flashback don't have reminders either
16:30:54 <b_jonas> I'll stop reading there, but probably a lot of abilities starting with [g-z] don't either
16:31:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51000&oldid=50999 * Rottytooth * (+442) /* Implementation */ added Python source by M654
16:31:56 <ais523> if something has two instances of fading, it clearly loses counters twice as fast
16:32:08 <ais523> echo would force you to pay twice, I suspect
16:32:40 <ais523> if you have multiple instances of flashback, you could likely use either of them, but only flash back an individual card once (note: this situation can actually happen using Past in Flames)
16:33:07 <int-e> echo is a good example to my mind
16:33:12 <b_jonas> zzo38: rule 702.43c exists for a single card that has the ability "Modular--Sunburst", yet it is phrased in a very general way so you could write Rampange--Sunburst or Vanishing--Sunburst or even Amplify--Sunburst. That ability looks like it's made for you, since you like to use keyword abilities in a strange way.
16:33:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
16:34:20 <b_jonas> ais523: that is explained in the explanatory rules for Cumulative Upkeep, whereas the rules for Vanishing just say "If a permanent has multiple instances of vanishing, each works separately." which doesn't really explain anything
16:34:38 <ais523> b_jonas: Fabricate--Sunburst strikes me as being potentially interesting
16:34:58 <ais523> also, fading isn't based on cumulative upkeep
16:35:06 <ais523> other than that they both use upkeep-adjusted counters
16:35:27 <int-e> . o O ( so where's the enchantment that says "While $this is in play, all permanents have echo"? )
16:35:27 <b_jonas> I'm not sure, but I think you can give a permanent multiple instances of cumulative upkeep with Balduvian Shaman plus standard techinques, but you can't have multiple copies of Vanishing or Fading on a permanent.
16:35:32 <zzo38> Maybe "Fabribate--Sunburst" is interesting, although I don't really like "Modular--Sunburst"; I would have preferred "Sunburst, Modular 0" for the single card that uses that.
16:35:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rottytooth * moved [[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] to [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]]: As per the rule of the language, it is re
16:36:36 <ais523> b_jonas: I wonder if an older version Reality Acid ever granted Vanishing, but it was changed to make the rules easier to understand?
16:37:17 <b_jonas> ais523: older version? Vanishing is the new keyword, fading is the old one, so that would be impossible
16:37:22 <int-e> . o O ( wtf is that page title )
16:37:41 <ais523> b_jonas: I mean, an unreleased/alpha/playtest version
16:38:05 <ais523> int-e: some esolangs are weirdly named
16:38:26 <b_jonas> ais523: dunno, but how would that work? that wouldn't put counters on the enchanted permanent
16:38:35 <b_jonas> ok wait, that's a stupid argument
16:38:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51003&oldid=51001 * Rottytooth * (+186) updated due to change in name
16:38:42 <ais523> you'd put them on in an ETB trigger
16:38:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Not a brainfuck derivative]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51004 * Rdococ * (+185) Created page with "== wtf is this? == seriously. ik it's a joke but at least tell us its structure, like HQ9+ and Hello do. ~~~~"
16:38:56 <ais523> however I suspect it might potentially be broken when combined with cards that use time counters for something else
16:39:05 <b_jonas> we have two or three cards with that explicitly exile permanents with time counters and make them suspended
16:39:29 <ais523> yes but I don't know of an enchantment that can enchant an exiled card
16:39:37 <ais523> (I think this is rules-legal, just something that's never been done)
16:41:13 <rdococ> wth why is mindscrew a redirect to b****fuck
16:41:29 <b_jonas> ais523: I don't think it would be broken. counters are usually balanced in ways that more counters is better, so removing counters is cheap but adding counters is expensive; counters are often broken when it goes against this, namely in the case of Dark Depths, undying, persist, and -1/-1 counters, especially as used in the Shadowmoor blocks.
16:41:51 <b_jonas> TSP uses counters on permanents correctly: more time counters is always better for you.
16:42:06 <b_jonas> there's a fading card that uses removing time counters as a cost
16:42:31 <b_jonas> the block that introduced Vanishing and that card ais talked about
16:42:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51005&oldid=51003 * Rottytooth * (+301) some commentary
16:43:16 <int-e> rdococ: clearly it's a better-than-brainfuck-derivative language despite its lack of specification because we all agree that brainfuck derivatives are the worst languages.
16:43:29 <rdococ> true, but it could be made even better.
16:43:58 <int-e> but then it would no longer have a chance of being in the second tier of languages ;)
16:44:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51006&oldid=50998 * Rottytooth * (+4) /* A */ A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.
16:44:09 <int-e> (just above the bottom)
16:44:26 <rdococ> it could be in the third tier
16:44:53 <ais523> isn't a language defined purely by not being a brainfuck derivative, in some sense, a brainfuck derivative?
16:44:57 <b_jonas> ais523: Here's the question. Intercal has the rule that a program is valid only if at least one third and at most one fifth of the statement introducers are polite. If your input is a string of polite and non-polite, is there a CF grammar that determines if the polite symbols are in this range? Is there an unambiguous CF rule?
16:44:59 <ais523> it wouldn't exist if not for brainfuck
16:45:28 <ais523> b_jonas: well, it's clearly impossible with a regular language, as those only have a finite amount of state
16:45:38 <ais523> however context-free languages are more powerful than that
16:46:10 <b_jonas> ais523: I think, but I'm not sure, that the language of strings with exactly as many polite and non-polite symbols, in any order, can be matched with an unambiguous CF grammar,
16:46:13 <ais523> clearly you can match any /specific/ ratio, e.g. "exactly ¼ polite"
16:46:41 <ais523> this means that you can also match "at least ⅕ polite" and "at most ⅓ polite"
16:46:47 <b_jonas> and I think the language of strings where at least half of the symbols is polite can also be matched with an unambiguous CF grammar
16:46:51 <ais523> so the remaining question is as to whether you can match both at the same time
16:47:07 <b_jonas> oh, you mean if you just want CF, not unambiguous FC
16:47:23 <ais523> I'm not caring about unambiguity at this point
16:47:42 <rdococ> . o O ( is a flux capacitor a way to temporarily store flux? )
16:47:44 <ais523> is there a theorem that says that CF grammars can/can't always be disambiguated?
16:48:02 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, there is that they can't always be disambiguated
16:48:16 <ais523> IIRC it's undecidable whether they actually are ambiguous, but that's a different question
16:48:25 <b_jonas> ais523: quoting myself from the wiki: The classic textbook Aho, Ullman, ''The Theory of Parsing, Translation, and Compiling'', (1972), explains in chapter 2.46 that there exist such context-free languages that have no unambiguous context-free grammars, and that such languages are called inherently ambiguous. After that, it states that “no inherently ambiguous programming languages have been devised yet”. This sounds like a challenge to find a program
16:48:36 <ais523> like, it's not obviously impossible to have grammars for which you can't decide whether they're ambiguous, but you know there's an unambiguous equivalent
16:48:52 -!- erkin has joined.
16:48:56 <ais523> I like the idea of an inherently ambiguous programming language
16:49:03 <b_jonas> ais523: an example for an inherently unambiguous language is the language of strings where the round brackets are balanced OR the square brackets are balanced
16:49:24 <ais523> you mean inherently ambiguous?
16:50:35 <ais523> so are there any theorems about whether, given a grammar that matches set of strings A, and a grammar that matches set of strings B, there exists a grammar that matches the set of strings (A intersection B)?
16:50:38 <b_jonas> and because of this, I've been struggling to make an esolang with an inherently ambiguous CF grammar where that property seems natural rather than tacked on, and the most obvious way is to take an existing language and allow you to use alternate pair of characters for parenthesis, but only if you use them consistently through the program,
16:50:39 <ais523> especially wrt CF grammars
16:50:43 <ais523> I know that with regexes there is
16:51:01 <b_jonas> but I don't want to make a bf-alike, and I haven't found a really good way to make such a language yet.
16:51:10 <b_jonas> But I wonder if INTERCAL would naturally be like that.
16:51:16 <ais523> b_jonas: ooh, this matches up with a golfing language idea I had
16:51:27 <ais523> the point is that most programs only care about using a subset of the language's primitives
16:51:33 <ais523> so you can use some of the others for your own purposes
16:52:19 <b_jonas> Mind you, in the defense of Aho, Ullman, it's clear that they understand in their book that you use CF parsers only for some parts of a language, and you eg. match identifiers or do type-checking later after that grammar, so
16:52:24 <ais523> and another idea in which every keyword was in two halves, and you put the arguments inside the keyword between the halves, and you could mix and match halves to get a large supply of keywords
16:52:42 <b_jonas> a politeness-checking language wouldn't be a contradiction to their claim even if it were inherently ambiguous, because you wouldn't put that part of the syntax into the CF grammar.
16:52:45 <ais523> if you combine those ideas, I think it ends up inherently ambiguous, perhaps?
16:52:53 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:54:12 <b_jonas> "so are there any theorems about whether, given a grammar that matches set of strings A, and a grammar that matches set of strings B, there exists a grammar that matches the set of strings (A intersection B)?" => yes, and there are two CF langauges whose intersection isn't CF, eg. {a**n b**n c**n} is a language that can be written as an intersection of two CF langauges.
16:55:17 <ais523> now I'm wondering if CF languages and PDAs have the same amount of power, but thinking about how yacc works, it seems likely
16:55:26 <rdococ> wonder if you could use lazy evaluation to mimic a retrocausal language
16:55:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
16:55:50 <b_jonas> rdococ: doesn't the mfix implementation for IO do that?
16:56:08 <ais523> I still haven't really got my head around the reverse state monad
16:56:16 <b_jonas> ais523: CF languages and *nondeterministic* PDAs have the same amount of power
16:56:45 <ais523> because limited systems like PDAs aren't powerful enough to simulate nondeterminism
16:56:57 <ais523> so adding nondeterminism makes them more powerful
16:58:19 <oerjan> the intersection of two CF languages can be TC, i believe... it's almost the same as the proof that unambiguity is undecidable for CF grammars
16:58:43 <oerjan> (encode the post correspondence problem)
17:00:00 <ais523> what does it mean for a language to be TC, though?
17:00:29 <oerjan> ais523: being universal for TMs, i guess
17:00:31 <ais523> I mean, there's a deterministic algorithm that runs in finite time and determines whether a string belongs to a given CF language
17:00:43 <oerjan> right. i must be wrong.
17:00:55 <ais523> so there's a deterministic algorithm that runs in finite time and determines whether a string belongs to the intersection of any given set of CF languages
17:01:17 <oerjan> MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE...
17:01:19 <b_jonas> I wonder if this would be a sane enough question for cstheory.stackexchange.com
17:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51007&oldid=47171 * Rottytooth * (+4)
17:03:53 <ais523> oerjan: I think what you might be thinking of is that it's TC to determine if two CF languages (in fact, regexes) intersect at all
17:04:05 <ais523> i.e. if there's some string that's simultaneously valid in both regexes
17:04:22 <oerjan> <b_jonas> rdococ: doesn't the mfix implementation for IO do that? <-- mfix only handles values, not actions, though. at least for the IO monad. if the value recursion affects which _actions_ run, it hangs.
17:04:26 <ais523> or, I should say, undecidable
17:04:42 <ais523> finding the intersection involves running a TC program, but if there isn't one, it won't terminate
17:05:08 <oerjan> (or perhaps throws an "MVar not set" kind of exception, iirc the implementation)
17:07:27 <oerjan> ais523: yeah if two CF languages intersect at all is the thing that's used in the unambiguity undecidability proof. (obvious if the two CFs are each constructed to be unambiguous as well)
17:09:25 <oerjan> ais523: um, if by regex you mean the FA equivalent concept, then it's decidable.
17:09:48 <ais523> oerjan: you can encode the post correspondence problem with regexes very easily
17:10:10 <ais523> or, now I'm really confused
17:10:40 <oerjan> you can trivially combine two DFAs into one that checks both
17:10:44 <ais523> because I'm simultaneously convinced of things that contradict each other
17:10:50 <ais523> thus I must have made a mistake somewhere
17:12:01 <ais523> so Wikipedia gives the example a, ab, bba and baa, aa, ab as an example PCP
17:12:31 <ais523> that's equivalent to saying "is there a string that matches both the regex ^(a|aab|bba)*$ and the regex ^(baa|aa|ab)*$"
17:13:04 <ais523> it has to match the two regexes /in the same way/
17:13:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: seems to hang in GHCi
17:13:21 <ais523> which can actually be written really easily in Cyclexa, even though I haven't worked out the language's syntaxes or semantics
17:13:28 <ais523> I just know this is one of the language's basic operations
17:13:34 <oerjan> *** Exception: thread blocked indefinitely in an MVar operation
17:13:44 <oerjan> which iirc is something caught by GC
17:13:47 <ais523> (Cyclexa is a TC regex notation I was working on a while back, but never really pinned down)
17:14:02 -!- tromp has joined.
17:14:14 <oerjan> (which means it might _not_ catch it if there's no GC)
17:15:37 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:15:55 <oerjan> ais523: did you keep running in cycles?
17:16:30 <ais523> it's just that it was very hard to parse, IIRC it had a nontransitive tokeniser
17:16:50 <ais523> and that disheartened me enough that I didn't even get around to working out what the semantics were
17:18:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:22:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]]": If this is going to keep moving, probably delete the tracks
17:22:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:22:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:23:57 <oerjan> hm was that actually a good idea...
17:24:54 <oerjan> there are others, too, including a broken redirect
17:26:22 <oerjan> (well, i just broke all of them, didn't i, but some already were double or triple)
17:27:13 <oerjan> ais523: hm can you make a redirect with a template?
17:27:45 <ais523> oerjan: not a proper redirect; you can make a soft redirect or a transclusion redirect
17:27:55 <oerjan> well that doesn't help here
17:28:04 <ais523> you can place a template on a redirect page, but it can only serve to add categories and/or add text viewable when visiting the redirect page directly
17:28:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[A programming language is an artificial language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]]": This too
17:29:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51008&oldid=39271 * Oerjan * (+4) fix
17:30:08 <rottytooth> Thanks -- I'll clean up the previous names next time I change it
17:31:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aplifcldtcitampac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51009&oldid=42470 * Oerjan * (-3) Fix; seems to miss an a, but did so already
17:31:34 <oerjan> the acronym didn't really change, so didn't delete that
17:31:53 <oerjan> rottytooth: i don't think you have deletion privileges though
17:33:08 <oerjan> but fixing redirects would be nice
17:34:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51010&oldid=51005 * Rottytooth * (+51) /* Concept */ note about current name
17:37:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
17:43:40 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:47:40 <oerjan> <int-e> [...] As a wild guess, maybe the former is a wikimedia default and the latter may be some custom theme? <-- well it doesn't seem to be in either Mediawiki:Common.css or Mediawiki:Vector.css, which i'm pretty sure is our default theme...
17:48:54 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> [...] As a wild guess, maybe the former is a wikimedia default and the latter may be some custom theme? <-- well it doesn't seem to be in either Mediawiki:Common.css or Mediawiki:Vector.css, which i'm pretty sure is our default theme...
17:50:44 <oerjan> rottytooth: technically your language briefly had an even more convoluted name, as it included "or constructed" at a point you weren't watching :P
17:50:54 <oerjan> (and who knows about actual vandalism)
17:52:25 <oerjan> (that Fmadd guy really did go wild in wikipedia last month...)
17:54:05 <ais523> hey, could someone please visit http://nethack4.org/latest/nethack4/libnethack/src/objnam.c and let me know whether it opens directly in the browser or whether it asks for a download?
17:54:16 <ais523> I'm getting inconsistent results when testing this myself
17:54:27 <oerjan> opens in browser for me
17:54:37 <ais523> must be some sort of insane caching problem at my end then
17:54:51 <ais523> because it asks for a download in both Chrome and Firefox, but not if I connect via netcat
17:55:20 <oerjan> (i may have to change soon, github was starting to give warnings...)
17:55:34 <ais523> oh right, I forgot you used IE
17:56:21 <ais523> must be caching, I stuck a question mark at the end of the URL and it worked :-)
17:58:36 <rdococ> it opens in browser for me though
17:59:04 <rdococ> it is a single .c file, I think most browsers would open it in the browser
18:01:14 <oerjan> rdococ: i'm sure ais523 is asking because he's just changed his server from a setup that _didn't_ show it in the browser
18:01:30 <oerjan> it's not really the filename that decides it these days.
18:02:47 * oerjan suddenly gets an epiphany about emotions over the internet
18:03:09 <oerjan> because emotionally, i was _not_ gloating when saying that, then realized it could be interpreted that way
18:04:40 * oerjan resolves to sprinkle all his messages with emoji ... just kidding
18:04:45 <zzo38> At least in Firefox and other Mozilla-based browsers you can force it to display text by adding "view-source:" at the front of the URL. I also added a code into Firefox to make the ask for a download to include the "view source" choice.
18:06:43 <oerjan> alas, in IE you cannot view source before the page is displayed in the browser (BUT OTHERWISE IT'S JUST FINE THANK YOU VERY MUCH)
18:06:53 <rottytooth> oerjan: Ha that is an even more terrible! I should really have a script to monitor it for changes
18:07:33 <oerjan> rottytooth: if you do, i'd like to propose a rule that the change has to stay for at least a day before you move the page :)
18:15:57 <rottytooth> I wonder if having the redirect on the initialism (Aplifcldtcitampac) is useful at all, since it would also need to keep changing each time
18:17:14 <rottytooth> Maybe having no history and no working redirects is better anyway, people have to look at Wikipedia to figure out its url
18:17:32 <rdococ> we must create a channel where IE users are banned
18:18:25 <oerjan> @tell fizzie now your latest change _isn't_ showing up in Gregor's bitbucket.
18:19:01 <oerjan> rottytooth: well there is Programming Language.
18:19:57 * rdococ grabs the swatter and breaks it. it gains sentience and flies up into space.
18:20:08 <zzo38> Some of the commands of ARB assembly language there is currently no equivalents in Checkout as far as I can see, and should probably be defined. This includes trigonometry, exponent base 2, logarithm base 2, and reciprocal square root, and compare. Also, how would you do kill fragment and texture accesses with Checkout?
18:20:38 <oerjan> rdococ: don't be ridiculous, it's been sentient since the start
18:20:57 <rdococ> oerjan: yeah and it's been in space since the start </sarcasm>
18:21:33 <oerjan> . o O ( some emotions transfer _too_ well over the internet )
18:21:44 <zzo38> ais523: Can you please to explain to me so that I can understand?
18:22:10 <ais523> zzo38: read-only checkouts are designed for texture access
18:22:15 <rdococ> IE will be good when pigs fly
18:22:15 <ais523> however not all GPU operations are implemented in checkout
18:22:26 <ais523> rdococ: hasn't Microsoft given up on IE, in favour of Edge?
18:22:31 <rdococ> . o O ( soon Microsoft will invent pigs with wings )
18:22:43 * oerjan applies some Status Quo is God liniment to the swatter
18:22:51 <rdococ> like how Windows = malware + a coating of paint
18:23:25 * rdococ applies the swatter to some lambda calculus. suddenly, currying, and the swatter turns into a bowl of curry.
18:24:23 <oerjan> you're successfully getting me annoyed. good job.
18:24:40 * rdococ gives oerjan the curry to make up for it
18:25:04 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, I thought that you might use read-only checkouts for textures, but is there the example? And, some GPU operation which isn't currently have, I think should be added on? That way, shader programs can then be written with them, I think.
18:25:23 <ais523> the language hasn't been implemented yet
18:25:45 <ais523> I think that if someone wanted to implement it, and added features as they did so, I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as they kept to the general idea behind the langugae
18:26:51 <zzo38> The specification of the preprocessor would then also have to be written I would think
18:28:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51011&oldid=51010 * Rottytooth * (+333) /* Concept */ expanded on content a bit
18:28:32 <zzo38> I would hope that an implementation can be made up which can be use as a better alternative than OpenGL, GLSL, and ARB assembly language, perhaps.
18:34:00 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/tmp/spout
18:38:52 <fizzie> For the record, I was expecting the "edit" button to make a bot on channel do the `fetch.
18:43:41 <oerjan> the names aren't the best
18:44:00 <oerjan> `` awk 'END{print NR}' tmp/spout
18:44:35 <oerjan> `` perl -e 'while(<>){$i++};print $i;' tmp/spout
18:44:57 <fizzie> If you mean the extra "four".
18:45:08 <fizzie> I pressed edit on it. :)
18:45:36 <oerjan> you messed up my test :P
18:45:49 <oerjan> `` awk 'END{print NR}' tmp/spout; wc -l tmp/spout
18:46:07 <HackEgo> 000000 6f 6e 65 0a 74 77 6f 0a 74 68 72 65 65 >one.two.three< \ 00000d
18:46:09 <HackEgo> http://slbkbs.org:5196/edit?path=/hackenv/bin/spam
18:46:12 <fizzie> Is it the lack of trailing newline?
18:47:21 <oerjan> `fetch bin/spam http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=/hackenv/bin/spam
18:47:22 <HackEgo> 2017-02-17 18:47:07 URL:http://slbkbs.org:5196/get?path=/hackenv/bin/spam [206/206] -> "bin/spam" [1]
18:49:07 <fizzie> Man, this new multi-line editing is such a cheat.
18:49:29 <fizzie> Back when nicks were nicks, we edited HackEgo uphill both ways.
18:49:49 <fizzie> I appreciate you keeping it all in one line, anyway.
18:51:31 <rdococ> wonder if a programming language with real numbers could ever achieve some form of supertc
18:53:36 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
18:53:57 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
18:54:02 <oerjan> `learn `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Fetch (2) Make your changes (3) Press edit (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
18:54:05 <HackEgo> Learned '`edit': `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Fetch (2) Make your changes (3) Press edit (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
18:54:41 <oerjan> `slwd `edit//s,s edit,s Edit,
18:54:43 <HackEgo> `edit//`edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Fetch (2) Make your changes (3) Press Edit (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
18:54:56 <HackEgo> bash: sudo: command not found
18:55:05 <HackEgo> cat: hi: No such file or directory
18:55:12 <oerjan> is press the right word?
18:55:45 <oerjan> rdococ: the Mexico is a Speedy Gonzales pun (or possible SG's brother pun)
18:56:49 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb did not invent them yet.
18:57:21 <oerjan> `slwd shavention//s,[.],, edit.,
18:57:22 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s'
18:57:39 <oerjan> `slwd shavention//s;[.];, edit.;
18:57:41 <HackEgo> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
18:58:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
19:00:14 -!- tromp has joined.
19:00:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:01:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Eep late).
19:04:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:07:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51012&oldid=51011 * Rottytooth * (-12) /* Concept */ clean up
19:14:33 -!- tromp has joined.
19:18:52 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:20:17 <doesthiswork> I've been wondering; what is rottytooth's position on heliopaths?
19:24:01 -!- augur has joined.
19:26:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
19:26:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:30:59 <shachaf> fizzie, oerjan: Look, it was a very quick program.
19:31:19 <shachaf> Do you want to improve it?
19:36:23 <shachaf> oerjan: By the way, I'm a bit dubious about keeping `edit running permanently the way it is right now, so maybe you shouldn't integrate it so closely into HackEgo.
19:36:47 <shachaf> If it is going to be running permanently, I should probably figure out some better way to do it.
19:37:21 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
19:39:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:58:11 <shachaf> It occurs to me that both "fetch" and "edit" sound like they might modify HackEgo, but neither does.
19:59:11 <zzo38> Now I made a animation from SDLTERM and OpenGL, with colourful balls moving from centre of screen to the edge and becomes larger when they move more closely to the edge.
20:07:12 <doesthiswork> It sounds like it would go well with the zombocom music
20:07:40 -!- idris-bot has joined.
20:08:22 <zzo38> Why? I think 1+1 makes 2
20:08:26 <rottytooth> doesthiswork: At my council's advice, I have no position on heliopaths at this time
20:15:32 -!- tromp has joined.
20:20:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:20:50 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:27:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51013&oldid=51012 * Rottytooth * (-100) Still messing with the description, trying to make this clear
20:34:41 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:39:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:43:43 <fizzie> shachaf: It occurs to me that maybe I should put an editor thing like that on the same webserver as everything else.
20:45:06 <shachaf> You could even permit people to push commits?
20:45:09 <shachaf> Maybe that's going too far.
20:45:36 <fizzie> In theory. I think I like the idea of there being one degree of separation. Less chance to make mistakes with the locking and such.
20:46:12 <shachaf> I was sort of going to implement the multiline tmp editor.
20:46:30 <shachaf> But that seemed like a lot of trouble and limited usability.
20:54:12 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH).
21:03:14 <\oren\> bleh, the build is 15 minutes longer than last month
21:03:44 <\oren\> shachaf: why not just use ed?
21:04:19 <\oren\> luckily I managed to fix the bug in my code before anyone noticed
21:05:51 <shachaf> Why does the build take so long?
21:06:25 <shachaf> Can you at least reuse some of the output from previous builds maybe?
21:06:30 <shachaf> Do you have reproducible builds?
21:08:09 <\oren\> shachaf: it takes a long time partially becauase separate compilation doesn't work with C++ templetes
21:08:30 <shachaf> Ah, it's all C++ template code. Makes sense.
21:08:37 <shachaf> But it can still be parallelized, right?
21:09:00 <\oren\> not only that but the templates are generated from an internal language
21:09:31 <\oren\> which creates hundreds of json parsers for some reason
21:10:47 <\oren\> I don't know if it CAN be paralelized, but it isn't afaict
21:11:57 <\oren\> can I filter out processes from ps -x that are waiting for somehting
21:12:41 <\oren\> yes it looks like it only runs one compiler at once
21:13:06 <shachaf> But it's not even doing -j?
21:13:16 -!- rottytooth has quit.
21:17:08 <\oren\> what's make we dont use make
21:17:19 <shachaf> j stands for parallel, I guess.
21:17:39 <\oren\> uhhh I didn't knwo make had a paralel option
21:17:56 <\oren\> but yeah it's jsut running one thing at a time
21:19:58 <\oren\> gcc -c SomeCamelCaseThing.cpp -o SomeCamelCaseThing.o
21:20:16 <\oren\> and SomeCamelCaseThing.cpp and a
21:20:58 <\oren\> will usually both #include SomeStupidTemplate.h
21:21:56 <\oren\> but each gcc invokation has no way to know this so it has to recompile SomeStupidTemplate.h over and over and over
21:22:56 <\oren\> er, that should be SomeStupidClassBasedOnATemplate.h
21:23:22 <\oren\> which then includes the actual template
21:23:52 <\oren\> C++ tmeplates. #notevenonce
21:39:12 <zzo38> Why is OpenGL using normalized device coordinates? Do you know if there is a way to make the output of the vertex program to be treated as integer coordinates, or is is it always necessary to convert them from integer coordinates if wanted into normalized device coordinates in the vertex program or transformation matrix?
21:39:44 <zzo38> (But I think the vertex program and transformation matrix cannot be used together.)
21:40:49 -!- doesthiswork has left.
21:40:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
21:44:25 -!- augur has joined.
21:48:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:50:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin/spam
21:54:33 -!- augur has joined.
21:56:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:01:30 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
22:02:00 <HackEgo> A compiler (lit. "with-piler") is one who builds piles together with someone else.
22:02:37 <HackEgo> metaplace//Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER
22:02:42 <HackEgo> vim//vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
22:02:58 <HackEgo> rhubarb//Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb.
22:03:20 <HackEgo> native//The natives are restless, also armed with sed.
22:05:54 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:06:55 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:16:05 -!- tromp has joined.
22:20:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:39:23 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:43:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:51:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:04:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:17:02 -!- tromp has joined.
23:21:31 <int-e> `` diff bin/wisdom bin/widsom
23:21:54 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:23:39 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:24:44 -!- tromp has joined.
23:28:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:30:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:37:05 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:39:17 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:43:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:46:00 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:46:22 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:53:30 -!- zgrep has changed nick to zgrep_cloud.
23:55:20 <oerjan> hm i seem not to have finished my previous logreading
23:55:37 -!- idris-bot has joined.
00:07:58 <oerjan> <ais523> b_jonas: fizzie: AFAICT, the weird nonUTF8 garbage in the Google ngrams files is meant to be a comma <-- hm could that be a side effect of using CSV?
00:08:44 <oerjan> and not paying attention
00:09:28 <oerjan> @ask ais523 <ais523> b_jonas: fizzie: AFAICT, the weird nonUTF8 garbage in the Google ngrams files is meant to be a comma <-- hm could that be a side effect of using CSV? and not paying attention
00:09:55 -!- tromp has joined.
00:16:43 <ais523> oerjan: that's my guess, at least
00:16:50 <ais523> the files have the extension .csv but are actually tab-separated
00:16:52 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 7m 23s ago: <ais523> b_jonas: fizzie: AFAICT, the weird nonUTF8 garbage in the Google ngrams files is meant to be a comma <-- hm could that be a side effect of using CSV? and not paying
00:17:21 <ais523> so it wouldn't surprise me if something along the line got confused as to how commas worked
00:18:07 <moonythedwarf> I have discovered SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition has returned from the dead. (YEEEE and its for $5 on steam for a bit.) Its a older favorite of mine, but my disks (two, actually, because the disks were the older version, and thus couldnt hold the GB large game on their own) are scratched. *buy button noises*
00:18:43 <ais523> now I'm wondering if rebuying the game is cheaper or more expensive than having the disks professionally repaired would be
00:19:53 <oerjan> hm indeed CF grammars can check for an exact (rational) ratio of polite vs. impolite.
00:20:34 <oerjan> (my first guess was it would violate the pumping lemma)
00:21:19 <oerjan> i don't see how you could extend that to an interval, though.
00:21:59 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
00:22:44 <oerjan> oh hm. if they're nondeterministic you might be able to guess... i think it could actually work.
00:25:05 <ais523> shachaf: I was replying to moonythedwarf
00:25:26 <moonythedwarf> probably cheaper to buy it on steam right now, its $4.99
00:25:53 <ais523> right, I was thinking that
00:26:33 <ais523> computer games have very low marginal cost, and thus violate many economic assumptions
00:26:48 <ais523> that people tend to make
00:27:15 <ais523> (such as "repairing something minimally damaged is cheaper than buying a new one")
00:29:01 <moonythedwarf> also, i dont think a deep scratch is 'minimally damaged' in my case :p (it got somewhere near something sharp, dont remember what)
00:35:58 <zzo38> I will make mahjong game in computer, you will please to tell me what they are going to be called?
00:40:37 -!- quintopia has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number).
00:47:14 -!- quintopia has joined.
00:52:36 -!- quintopia has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number).
00:53:15 -!- quintopia has joined.
00:55:26 -!- MDude has joined.
00:56:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:03:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
01:11:09 <oerjan> can't you change the highlight so it doesn't work if followed by the :5196 or whatever the specific part is
01:11:27 <oerjan> (that was meant to be private)
01:14:24 -!- Cale has joined.
01:20:14 -!- furozo has joined.
01:25:39 <Sgeo> Does NH4 server work well with ssh on Cygwin?
01:29:23 <ais523> Sgeo: it would surprise me if it didn't, although it's unlikely that watching will work in realtime
01:29:31 <ais523> as that requires a POSIX feature that nobody but Linux seems to implement
01:29:39 <ais523> it may be that the compile is a little awkward though
01:30:05 <ais523> (this is all assuming that you mean running the /server/ on Cygwin; if you're running /ssh/ on Cygwin everything should work very smoothly, although I'd recommend using a terminal other than Windows')
01:30:18 <Sgeo> I meant the latter
01:30:33 <ais523> yes, that should work fine
01:31:14 <Sgeo> pray for help is a spell??
01:31:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51014&oldid=50381 * Dpleshkov * (+93) /* Mathematics */
01:35:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
01:46:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trans-dimensional]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51015 * Dpleshkov * (+740) New Page!
01:48:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trans-dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51016&oldid=51015 * Dpleshkov * (-1)
01:48:11 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:49:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trans-dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51017&oldid=51016 * Dpleshkov * (+0)
01:49:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trans-dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51018&oldid=51017 * Dpleshkov * (+0)
01:51:00 -!- MDude has joined.
01:51:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51019&oldid=50806 * Dpleshkov * (+109) /* General languages */
01:51:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51020&oldid=51019 * Dpleshkov * (+0) /* General languages */
01:53:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51021&oldid=51020 * Dpleshkov * (+37) /* General languages */
01:54:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51022&oldid=51021 * Dpleshkov * (+0) /* General languages */
01:55:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:57:37 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:37:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51023&oldid=50955 * Hsorenson * (-117)
02:45:13 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:59:50 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
03:02:45 -!- erkin has joined.
03:10:27 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/2uIQSBj.jpg how to subtitles
03:13:33 <\oren\> izabera: I used to like when they did that
03:13:41 <\oren\> then I learned to read
03:15:09 <\oren\> also, toadys wtf thing I saw on the internet
03:15:24 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXx7LZdrqHE
03:17:10 -!- furozo has joined.
03:20:44 <izabera> that's at least 3 days worth of wtf
03:24:22 -!- adu has joined.
03:28:57 <\oren\> they are supposedly speaking english but i'm not aving it
03:29:33 <\oren\> there's more understandable enlish in most J-pop
03:30:38 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV2aYno9xGc oh god this one is even mor eWTF
03:34:46 <\oren\> wut in the fuck is worng with africa
03:39:08 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
03:49:25 <\oren\> where did the cockroach come from
03:58:26 <\oren\> doesthiswork: #1 is like the devil possessed kyary pamyu pamyu
03:59:21 -!- furozo has joined.
03:59:22 <doesthiswork> it is the south african mirror of the kind of american culture I am trying to get away from
04:08:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:16:25 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
04:35:54 <zzo38> I thought one way to implement with 2D graphics with irregular grids with OpenGL is to use one texture to specify the layout of the grid, and then you have additionally the name table texture and pattern table texture (as you may do with rectangular grids). Is this common at all? (Examples of non-rectangular grids may be hex grid and circular grid.)
04:36:49 <adu> zzo38: maybe you should checkout Wayland?
04:37:40 <zzo38> adu: I think that is unrelated.
04:38:17 <adu> both triangluar and hexagonal grids can be approximated with rectangular grids
04:39:14 <adu> if each element is larger than 2 pixels, then you should probably be using polygons
04:39:23 <zzo38> For data storage that is useful, yes. For drawing the graphics it is difference of course
04:40:09 <adu> you could write a shader
04:40:17 <zzo38> Using polygons is one way yes, although I have done a rectangular grid with OpenGL without using any polygons, just a fragment program.
04:43:09 <zzo38> That is, the fragment.position input is divided by the tile size, and the integer part is a name table lookup; the result from the name table added to the fraction of the first result will be the lookup in the pattern table. With these non-rectangular grids, there is just the extra step, which is for fragment.position to be a lookup into the grid shape table, and then the RGBA outputs of that are the XY of the name table lookup and the XY of the pa
04:43:14 <zzo38> Do you understand what I mean?
04:51:29 -!- zgrep_cloud has changed nick to zgrepc.
04:55:56 <zzo38> Something like this perhaps: TEX R0,fragment.position,texture[0],RECT; MUL R0,{255,255,255,255},R0; TEX R1,R0,texture[1],RECT; MAD R0,R1,{5100,0,0,0},R0.zwxy; TEX result.color,R0,texture[2],RECT; (I haven't actually tested this yet)
04:56:16 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
04:57:15 <zzo38> Where texture[0] is the grid shape table, texture[1] is the name table, and texture[2] is the pattern table.
05:00:23 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
05:01:58 -!- idris-bot has joined.
05:28:45 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
05:28:59 <zzo38> You can do many other things with this than just difference grid shape, including if some grid cells use larger icons or reversed icons or whatever. Something like this http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/contest/rtc-board.gif can also be possible
05:48:37 <lambdabot> PAMR 180459Z 00000KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR BKN007 BKN011 OVC033 M02/M03 A2951 RMK AO2 P0000 T10221028
06:20:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:22:58 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:41:12 -!- DontLookBack has joined.
06:50:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:53:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
07:51:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:01:09 -!- erkin has joined.
08:07:54 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
08:15:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:33:08 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
08:35:29 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:45:40 -!- erkin has joined.
08:53:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:12:34 -!- augur has joined.
09:28:41 -!- atslash has joined.
09:41:41 -!- augur_ has joined.
09:44:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:46:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:51:43 -!- augur has joined.
10:02:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:03:27 -!- augur has joined.
10:05:01 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
10:08:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:10:56 -!- erkin has joined.
10:13:45 -!- augur has joined.
10:18:13 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
10:18:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:24:03 -!- augur has joined.
10:28:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
10:35:28 -!- augur has joined.
10:47:31 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:48:10 -!- augur has joined.
10:51:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:54:02 -!- augur has joined.
10:55:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
10:57:01 -!- augur_ has joined.
10:58:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:58:41 -!- augur_ has joined.
10:59:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:07:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
11:07:30 -!- idris-bot has joined.
11:10:02 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:10:43 -!- augur has joined.
11:24:10 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:24:47 -!- augur has joined.
11:32:10 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:35:07 -!- augur has joined.
11:46:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:46:50 -!- augur has joined.
11:47:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:59:05 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving).
12:48:37 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
12:49:23 -!- augur has joined.
12:53:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:56:58 -!- boily has joined.
12:57:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:00:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
13:08:25 <HackEgo> compiler//A compiler (lit. "with-piler") is one who builds piles together with someone else.
13:09:16 <boily> `slwd compiler//s" \"" “"
13:09:18 <HackEgo> compiler//A compiler (lit. “with-piler") is one who builds piles together with someone else.
13:09:51 <boily> `slwd compiler//sr\r"r\r”r
13:09:53 <HackEgo> compiler//A compiler (lit. “with-piler”) is one who builds piles together with someone else.
13:13:16 <HackEgo> ascii//Ascii is the plural of ascius, "of or pertaining to southern countries, near the equator".
13:13:27 <HackEgo> or//Or is an Intercal unary operator.
13:51:34 -!- erkin has joined.
14:00:52 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:16:34 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:25:12 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
14:33:21 <int-e> boily: . o O ( mv bin/' bin/‘ )
14:33:42 <int-e> or should I put the boily: inside the thought bubble, hmmmm.
14:33:57 <HackEgo> 339) [on spiking] <CakeProphet> drugs are expensive. It would be a waste to use them on a random stranger.
14:34:19 <int-e> . o O ( unless you're selling them )
14:34:23 <HackEgo> 585) <Phantom_Hoover> I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on.
14:35:49 <boily> wellob_jonas, int-ello.
14:36:15 <boily> you should inthought the boily, otherwise it looks like you're making me think things :þ
14:36:22 <int-e> . o O ( but if you think illegal drugs are expensive you should see some of the shit the pharma industry has on the market )
14:36:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: I hear in the US, the legal ones are the expensive ones
14:37:11 <int-e> boily: yes, that's what I wondered, but it really had the wrong scope... I had a thought for you, not a thought about telling you something... though the difference is obviously minimal.
14:38:41 <int-e> boily: next time I should try <int-e> . o O ( <boily> . o O ( ... ) ) ;-)
14:39:32 <HackEgo> 1163) <zzo38> C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. <zzo38> Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler.
14:39:39 <wob_jonas> neighbor stopped playing the loud music. good. it's not that I don't like music, but I want to listen to it on my own schedule.
14:53:10 -!- furozo has joined.
14:54:19 <int-e> "<xxx> Last night about 3am one of my neighbors rang at my door. I was so surprised I almost dropped my power drill." (translated from http://german-bash.org/332508 ... I didn't find what I was looking for, an exchange on an IRC channel where one person was complaining about loud music and the other about overly sensitive neighbors)
14:57:06 <wob_jonas> I'm also bothered by the cooking smells coming from the neighbors here.
15:00:05 -!- furozo has left.
15:01:22 -!- furozo has joined.
15:01:33 <boily> wob_jonas: are they also loud smells?
15:04:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
15:06:14 <HackEgo> 609) <elliott> ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or"
15:07:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
15:07:44 <int-e> . o O ( any Surströmming (disclaimer, I have never smelled that, as far as I know, just read stories) )
15:08:15 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, only plain cooking oil smell most of the time, burnt toast smell occasionally
15:08:28 <int-e> "xor" should be pronounced "crossor", just like "xing" is pronounced "crossing" ;-)
15:08:34 <wob_jonas> it's definitely not as bad as Surströmming (which I have also not smelled)
15:08:40 <boily> anyone here who can smuggle a can to me?
15:08:47 <rdococ> it should be pronounced ex-or for exclusive-or
15:08:58 <rdococ> or you can call it "doesn't equal"
15:09:02 <boily> «gzor» is the correct way.
15:09:05 <int-e> (I almost feel bad about that "is" ... nobody I know pronounces xing that way)
15:09:13 <wob_jonas> int-e: xor should be pronounced like Eeyore, and written as eor, which was the old style spelling
15:09:29 <wob_jonas> back when they called or "ior", which you also pronounce as Eeyore
15:13:08 <boily> rdochelloc. is that an inclusive or exclusive “...”?
15:17:04 <int-e> The exclusive quotes are «french», of course.
15:17:56 <int-e> why do I have ⟪«»⟫ in my xmodmap, I never use them
15:23:34 <boily> «» are the most bestest quotes there are.
15:26:13 <int-e> (nah, the placement of those characters depend too much on the font)
15:28:37 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:42:23 <rdococ> high levels of boron particles
15:43:51 <rdococ> fish <>< SUPER FISH «»«
15:47:53 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
16:21:23 -!- erkin has joined.
16:37:20 <zzo38> You can use command "tail -c+17 | utftovlq w8" for converting farbfeld picture into RGBA format with 8-bits per channel; this is one kind of thing that it can be done without using any of the other farbfeld programs.
16:39:33 <fizzie> A good pronunciation for xor could be with a click.
16:48:16 -!- augur has joined.
16:48:16 <zzo38> Is that how you would do?
16:51:54 <fizzie> No, I can't really do clicks. But it might sound nice.
16:52:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:05:24 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
18:09:22 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
18:17:34 -!- kiki` has joined.
18:18:54 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
18:23:41 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:46:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GEOLOGIST CHICKEN).
18:54:34 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
18:59:40 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
18:59:45 <fizzie> `sled bin/url//s,www2.codu.org/projects/hackbot,hackego.esolangs.org,;s,codu.org/projects/hackbot,hackego.esolangs.org,
18:59:47 <HackEgo> bin/url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif r
19:00:43 <fizzie> `sled bin/hurl//s,codu.org/projects/hackbot,hackego.esolangs.org,
19:00:45 <HackEgo> bin/hurl//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \
19:02:39 <fizzie> `` sed -e 's,index.cgi/file,index.cgi/raw-file,' < bin/url > bin/raw-url # this one didn't even support tmp/
19:04:36 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
19:05:53 -!- furozo has joined.
19:20:53 -!- augur has joined.
19:21:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:26:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51024&oldid=51023 * Hsorenson * (+188)
19:31:07 -!- augur has joined.
19:32:05 -!- idris-bot has joined.
19:32:34 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
19:45:01 -!- Melvar` has joined.
19:45:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:45:53 -!- hydraz has quit (Quit: Bai.).
19:46:35 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:51:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
19:53:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
20:07:28 <\oren\> There is a blurry line between brilliant programming and stupid, unmaintainable crap.
20:08:00 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:31:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:37:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:57:54 <int-e> . o O ( It depends on the file? (I've never seriously looked at the code. Not in the last decade anyway. )
20:59:23 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:25:47 -!- augur has joined.
21:28:55 -!- idris-bot has joined.
21:29:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:36:11 -!- augur has joined.
21:38:41 <fizzie> `fetch bin/edit http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/edit
21:38:42 <HackEgo> 2017-02-18 21:38:25 URL:http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/edit [332/332] -> "bin/edit" [1]
21:43:42 <shachaf> Shutting down my server now.
21:47:13 <HackEgo> `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Fetch (2) Make your changes (3) Press Edit (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
21:47:48 <shachaf> fizzie: I thought you meant you would make a web page that would commit to hg directly.
21:49:02 <shachaf> fizzie: One thing you could add would be a warning: No newline at end of file.
21:49:24 <shachaf> People are probably going to forget final newlines.
21:51:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tygrak * New user account
21:52:38 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:08:13 <fizzie> I considered making something more integrated, but then thought you never know where things end up hosted, and it's kind of nice they're not bundled together at all.
22:08:18 <fizzie> As for trailing newlines, I guess. Not sure how important they are for most files. Maybe I'll add a client-side script thing that shows a message for that.
22:10:42 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
22:11:17 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/
22:11:39 <shachaf> I didn't know sys.exit() took strings in Python. How odd.
22:11:53 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:20:10 <fizzie> I didn't know it either, but then I saw it in one of the other scripts.
22:22:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51025&oldid=50991 * Tygrak * (+198)
22:23:20 <shachaf> `mkx bin/wdit//edit "wisdom/$1"
22:23:28 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/wisdom/%60edit
22:23:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51026 * Tygrak * (+2804) Created page with "'''Tildehyph''' or ~- is a turing complete programming language created by [[User:Tygrak]] using only two symbols - the tilde ~ and the hyphen -. ==Language overview== Tildeh..."
22:25:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51027&oldid=51026 * Tygrak * (-1560) /* Examples */
22:26:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51028&oldid=51027 * Tygrak * (+1533) /* Examples */
22:27:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51029&oldid=51028 * Tygrak * (-1496) /* Examples */
22:27:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51030&oldid=51029 * Tygrak * (+1) /* Examples */
22:29:04 -!- furozo has joined.
22:29:56 -!- Tygrak has joined.
22:30:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:30:20 -!- Zarutian has joined.
22:30:51 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:31:20 -!- Zarutian has joined.
22:32:40 <Tygrak> Hey guys, can anyone help me with my page on the wiki? My lang https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tildehyph is made entirely of ~ and -. So when I tried to add examples for it all the tildes were replaced by signatures. Can I somehow escape the tildes?
22:34:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tildehyph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51031&oldid=51030 * Tygrak * (+13) /* Examples */
22:50:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:56:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:57:15 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:11:45 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:15:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:17:30 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:17:52 -!- tromp has joined.
23:18:12 <zzo38> If I make mahjong game in computer, do you have suggestion for what it is called and also suggestion for features?
23:18:20 -!- Tygrak has quit (Quit: Page closed).
23:27:58 -!- DontLookBack has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:30:57 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
23:31:14 -!- furozo has joined.
23:35:12 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:38:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:48:15 -!- furozo has left.
23:56:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
00:05:16 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
00:08:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
00:13:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:15:03 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:37:09 -!- furozo has joined.
00:44:14 -!- augur has joined.
00:45:13 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
00:56:58 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:59:22 <fizzie> `fetch wisdom/`edit http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/wisdom/%60edit
00:59:23 <HackEgo> 2017-02-19 00:59:05 URL:http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/wisdom/%60edit [187/187] -> "wisdom/`edit" [1]
01:05:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DanielJohnBenton * New user account
01:11:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
01:13:30 -!- oerjan has joined.
01:17:17 <oerjan> ais523: so i thought about INTERCAL politeness and if my calculations are correct, i can now give an explicit ambiguous CF grammar, which is even simpler to state as an NDFA algorithm
01:18:41 <oerjan> O ::= S 0 S; I := S 1 S; S := | I O O | O I O | O O I | I O O O | O I O O | O O I O | O O O I | I O O O O | O I O O O | O O I O O | O O O I O | O O O O I
01:19:50 <oerjan> as an NDFA algorith: push each bit to stack, and whenever the top 3-5 elements have exactly one 1, consider possibly popping them all.
01:20:44 <oerjan> (and succeed if stack empty at the end)
01:22:19 <oerjan> the key observations are: (1) if density < 1/4, you can find a substring with 4 0's and 1 1, and remove it. If density is >= 1/4, you can do the same with 2 0's and 1 1.
01:23:30 <ais523> right, this makes sense
01:23:39 <oerjan> Um, for the latter, there needs to be at least two 1's in the string, because of the exceptions with 3 0's and one 1.
01:24:06 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
01:24:22 <oerjan> (the exception being that this is the only case where removing will push the remaining density out of the interval.)
01:27:25 <oerjan> the fact that you can find such substrings is essentially the pigeonhole principle applied to the average length of 0*10* substrings.
01:29:14 <oerjan> with some corner cases when the original string has just one 1.
01:31:41 <oerjan> if no 1 in the string has more than 3 0's bordering it, then the total number of 0's is at most 3/2 * n + 3, where n is the number of 1's.
01:32:31 <oerjan> and if the density < 1/4, then 3/2 * n + 3 > 3*n, or n < 2.
01:32:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:35:43 <oerjan> similarly, if no 1 has more than one 0 bordering it, you get, um, just n + 1, which must be >= 2*n to get density >= 1/3. so n <= 1.
01:37:37 <oerjan> in the latter case, you don't need density <= 1/4 to find the substring, but you need it to not push the remaining density too high.
01:38:43 <oerjan> i've got the order of density switched in my head because i've been thinking in terms of 0's divided by 1's. :P
01:40:24 <oerjan> (i never seemed to name a (2) above)
01:40:36 -!- pikhq has joined.
01:50:14 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
01:56:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:56:46 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:06:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mattmon666 * New user account
02:06:52 <HackEgo> `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
02:08:28 * oerjan is a bit worried that `edit might mean more useless HackEgo history
02:16:04 <DHeadshot> This ridiculous function I've ended up writing is already 1600 lines long and is barely started! I think I'm giving up on it for tonight - it *is* gone 2 AM after all...
02:17:57 <shachaf> oerjan: it's out of my hands hth
02:21:50 <DHeadshot> There's probably a more efficient way to write this stupid thing, but my brain is too frazzled to work it out...
02:22:17 <oerjan> functions should not be 1600 lines long </haskeller>
02:22:42 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: MDude).
02:23:10 <DHeadshot> This is in C, but you're probably right. And it'll be probably 10 x that when finished, which is rather silly...
02:23:14 -!- MDude has joined.
02:23:14 <shachaf> haskell functions are 1600 icache lines long hth
02:24:55 * oerjan doesn't know how those work, anyway. and especially not how big they are.
02:25:17 * DHeadshot hasn't got his head round haskell anyway
02:25:34 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
02:48:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51032&oldid=51025 * Mattmon666 * (+265) My introduction
02:48:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mostawesomeprogramminglanguage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51033 * Mattmon666 * (+47702) Initial creation
02:51:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:52:43 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
02:52:50 <rdococ> chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
02:58:02 <fizzie> oerjan: Clearly the `edit-`fetch cycle needs a way to specify a commit message addendum.
02:58:49 <DHeadshot> I've always hesitated from posting my esolang to the Wiki as it should probably be online somewhere else first to provide some level of legitimacy...
02:59:06 <DHeadshot> Though I have waited since 2009 when I came up with it...
03:00:02 <shachaf> fizzie: just s,//.*,, the request URL hth
03:02:56 <pikhq> rdococ: Zongker, D. (2006). "Chicken Chicken Chicken: Chicken Chicken". Annals of Improbable Research. 12 (5): 16-21.
03:03:00 <pikhq> [citation provided]
03:06:13 <shachaf> how big is oerjan's L1 icache twh
03:08:26 <Jafet> probably smaller than 1600 lines
03:08:56 <pikhq> Somewhere between 0 and 2^(2^64-1) bytes.
03:14:17 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:14:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mostawesomeprogramminglanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51034&oldid=51033 * Mattmon666 * (+460) Language Compiler
03:16:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Coder12345 * New user account
03:17:09 <DHeadshot> @tell hppavilion1, I think I remember you saying you invented "cbrt" for cuberoot and no-one else used it? Um, they do now... http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cmath/cbrt/
03:21:36 <HackEgo> Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:22:16 <HackEgo> An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember.
03:24:57 <rdococ> is there something for me to rdoscover?
03:27:41 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
03:30:37 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:31:56 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:35:49 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
03:36:14 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:36:54 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:37:51 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
03:39:48 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:40:08 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
03:52:20 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:02:06 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
04:18:07 -!- furozo has joined.
04:19:09 -!- augur has joined.
04:24:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:37:10 -!- erkin has joined.
04:37:32 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
04:41:55 -!- IRCFrEAK has joined.
04:41:56 -!- IRCFrEAK has left.
04:55:53 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
05:30:43 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
05:34:18 -!- ais523 has quit.
05:34:45 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:40:59 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:43:35 -!- APic has joined.
05:45:30 -!- staffehn has joined.
05:55:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
05:59:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
06:39:35 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
07:24:00 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:00:29 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:06:44 -!- lambdabot has joined.
08:45:23 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
08:47:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:05:07 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
09:15:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:28:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:31:57 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
09:34:20 -!- ChatSharp has left.
09:53:42 -!- augur has joined.
10:07:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:05:10 -!- ybden has quit (Quit: ybden).
13:06:08 -!- ybden has joined.
13:15:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
13:38:22 -!- boily has joined.
13:44:04 -!- erkin has joined.
13:58:35 <rdococ> You don't have any massages
13:59:00 <boily> rdochelloc. it's a feature I sometimes pester int-e for.
13:59:47 <int-e> boily: no, you're pestering me for a feature that allows me to set the edit distance tolerance for #esoteric to 0.
14:00:41 <int-e> (while leaving other channels unaffected)
14:01:08 <int-e> oerjan too, of course.
14:10:53 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:13:27 -!- LKoen has joined.
14:24:54 -!- erkin has joined.
14:30:49 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:43:57 <boily> grilling zombies ♪
14:51:27 <int-e> "grilling zombies" ... About 671 results
14:52:10 <int-e> although as usual thge number drops quickly: "Page 5 of about 45 results"
14:52:41 -!- kiki` has joined.
14:53:01 <int-e> or, with "duplicates", Page 20 of about 198 results
14:53:10 <int-e> not sure what to make of that.
15:10:59 -!- Zarutian has joined.
15:40:14 -!- moonythedwarf has joined.
15:50:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
16:17:04 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:18:20 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:21:17 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:25:04 <oerjan> int-e: i have no idea why a bit of @messages-loud wordplay would annoy you...
16:27:39 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
16:42:12 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:07:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
17:11:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HIVE CHICKEN).
17:26:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
17:35:32 -!- augur has joined.
17:36:51 <oerjan> fizzie: wiki bridge is down
17:37:33 <oerjan> it's doing that non-joining thing again.
17:38:08 <oerjan> . o O ( clearly we need a command to ask it to join #esoteric )
17:42:01 <erkin> Can we ask it to join other channels?
17:42:45 <oerjan> i'm not sure we want to do that.
17:44:01 <oerjan> well, it accepts private messages, so it probably would have no technical problem with other channels.
17:44:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:45:22 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:54:55 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar.
18:07:29 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:14:25 -!- HackEgo has joined.
18:14:39 <fizzie> oerjan: It's supposed to autojoin, but I think there's a known timing-related issue.
18:16:04 <fizzie> Essentially it starts a socat for the multibot, then does a sleep 10, and sends the autojoin commands.
18:19:46 <oerjan> it does manage to connect though
18:20:02 <oerjan> maybe there's some response it should be waiting for
18:30:51 <fizzie> That's very hard, because the autojoin is not sent by multibot.
18:31:03 <fizzie> It's just the shell script waiting for a fixed amount of time and then spewing it in.
18:31:43 <fizzie> It doesn't have a reasonable way of waiting until something comes out. Well, except by polling at the logfile or something.
18:32:04 <fizzie> As everything else in HackEgo, it's a very hacky system.
18:32:13 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
18:32:32 <fizzie> I could build a "please try to join #esoteric" button on the website, I guess.
18:36:27 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:49:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:55:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:03:52 -!- krok_ has joined.
19:06:47 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:10:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:10:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
19:10:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:26:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:31:16 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:33:20 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:45:04 -!- augur has joined.
19:48:14 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:49:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:17:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:18:21 -!- augur has joined.
20:18:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Disconnected by services).
20:18:44 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
20:22:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:52:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:56:09 -!- int-e has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
20:56:16 -!- int-e has joined.
20:56:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
21:07:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:10:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:11:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:12:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:12:33 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:14:29 -!- Zarutian has joined.
21:14:33 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:17:51 <DHeadshot> TFW your function is over 2800 lines long and you're still under half-way through writing it!
21:20:17 <DHeadshot> BTW, int-e, your tiny BF interpreter is amazing! I was looking through it on Friday in the hopes of getting it to run on the Atari Portfolio...
21:20:33 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:21:05 <int-e> well, 20 years older
21:21:42 <int-e> (if that's the 97 bytes DOS one)
21:27:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:35:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: cycling).
21:36:01 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:45:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:58:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
22:10:54 -!- boily has joined.
22:40:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:45:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:51:55 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:01:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:04:57 -!- augur has joined.
23:10:35 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:11:40 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
23:12:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:14:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:18:41 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:18:41 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:29:57 -!- kiki` has joined.
23:33:38 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:36:07 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:43:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51038&oldid=51032 * Ganondork * (+199) /* Introductions */
23:44:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Worstscript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51039&oldid=38885 * Ganondork * (-1) corrected 'wildely' to 'widely'
23:50:43 <Taneb> I have succeeded in working around the "C library actually exports macros masking the actual function which makes binding nicely a pain" issue in my very partial Rust icu bindings!
23:51:58 <zzo38> I think Rust has more sophisticated macros than C though? I don't actually know much about it, but I thought so
23:53:17 <Taneb> zzo38, yes, it does
23:53:38 <Taneb> But the issue is icu's public interface is all C-style macros, which Rust doesn't use
23:54:17 <Taneb> So if I am writing a binding for it I either have to do something clever, or bind to something like ucol_open_52 where 52 is I think a version number and internal implementation detail
23:54:40 <Taneb> Because icu has somewhere in it "#define ucol_open ucol_open_52"
23:55:06 <Taneb> And Rust doesn't see that (because it is not using the C preprocessor)
23:55:31 <zzo38> Make the program to convert C macros into Rust macros so that Rust does see that.
23:55:51 <Taneb> I am not sure that that is in general possible
23:56:21 <Taneb> What I have done instead is to make a C file that defines functions called "__rs_ucol_open" that calls the visible name
23:56:41 <Taneb> And because this is a C file the macro is ran
23:56:52 <Taneb> But because it's an actual function I can bind to it easier
00:00:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rathorsunpreet * New user account
00:00:50 <zzo38> Perhaps the Rust compiler could be modified to support C macros too?
00:02:05 <boily> is it hard to completely reimplement ICU in rust?
00:02:14 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
00:02:36 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Client Quit).
00:10:21 <shachaf> Medical care using Rust is risky. You might catch tetanus.
00:11:03 * boily chirurgically thwacks shachaf. 0.875 FP.
00:12:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51040&oldid=51038 * Rathorsunpreet * (+240) /* Introductions */
00:12:32 <oerjan> chirurgien. chi-rur-gi-en.
00:12:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51041&oldid=50802 * Rathorsunpreet * (+175) /* Normal implementations */
00:13:50 <\oren\> http://pastebin.com/f963qrSn
00:14:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51042&oldid=51041 * Rathorsunpreet * (-1) /* Normal implementations */
00:16:33 <fizzie> oerjan: chirurgs and chiropractors are united in their use of chi-squared tests.
00:16:41 <\oren\> I made a motorbike in KSP that can go at 40 m/s over rough terrain while automatically keeping itself upright
00:18:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rathorsunpreet]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51043 * Rathorsunpreet * (+386) Created page with "I am an Applied Computer Science Graduate. Currently working as a QA Tester. I like to make software. Software could be anything ranging from a simple tic-tac-toe game to an i..."
00:19:07 <\oren\> the above is the kOS code that keeps it level
00:26:01 <oerjan> hm the original ancient greek meaning of chirourgos seems to be "someone who works with their hands"
00:26:50 <oerjan> *cheirourgos (χειρουργός)
00:27:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ganondork]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51044 * Ganondork * (+44) Created page with "I like making esolangs but not sharing them."
00:34:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:46:20 <boily> maybe they are creating brainfuck derivatives and it's for the best?
00:59:41 <HackEgo> danddreclist 86: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
01:00:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51045&oldid=51040 * DanielJohnBenton * (+246) /* Introductions */
01:00:17 <shachaf> lynn: do you want your list entry updated wth
01:00:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sacred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51046&oldid=44618 * DanielJohnBenton * (+412) Add Mode 1 hello world
01:00:42 <HackEgo> noooodl \ pho \ pumping lemma \ reflection
01:00:56 <HackEgo> bin/` \ bin/gs2c.py \ bin/randbin \ bin/? \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/`` \ bin/( \ bin/bookofeso \ bin/wisdom \ bin/danddreclist
01:01:03 <HackEgo> 1:5/And fungot called the cloud internet, and the hard drive *n?x. And the DNS and the server were upon the first day.
01:01:21 <HackEgo> 7493:2016-04-19 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo \'F="$(find esobible -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#esobible/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl\' > bin/bookofeso \ 7492:2016-04-19 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo \'F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat
01:01:51 <HackEgo> f=$(find bin -ipath "bin/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#bin/}//"; grep '' "$f"; else echo "That's not binary."; fi | rnooodl
01:02:14 -!- IRCFrEAK has joined.
01:02:15 -!- IRCFrEAK has left.
01:02:20 <boily> we have a Book of Esöteric?
01:02:32 <HackEgo> Phở is a Vietnamese soup invented by nooooooodl to stress-test implementations of Unicode combining characters.
01:03:14 <boily> `slwd pho//s/n.*?dl/lyyyyyyynn/
01:03:15 <HackEgo> pho//Phở is a Vietnamese soup invented by nooodl to stress-test implementations of Unicode combining characters.
01:03:37 <shachaf> `learn The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat
01:03:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'rum': The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat
01:03:46 <boily> `slwd pho//s/n.*?dl/lyyyyyyynn/
01:03:47 <HackEgo> pho//Phở is a Vietnamese soup invented by nooodl to stress-test implementations of Unicode combining characters.
01:04:06 <boily> `slwd pho//s/nooodl/lyyyyyyynn/
01:04:08 <HackEgo> pho//Phở is a Vietnamese soup invented by lyyyyyyynn to stress-test implementations of Unicode combining characters.
01:04:56 <boily> should it be renooooodled?
01:05:18 <shachaf> But let's leave that up to lynn.
01:07:37 <zzo38> On a Motorola cable box can HD recording be disabled to force only SD recording?
01:14:02 <HackEgo> taiwan//Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Macedonia is.
01:14:30 <HackEgo> 7454:2016-04-17 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/stance/stence/\' wisdom/{macedonia,taiwan} \ 7453:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existance, just like Macedonia is.
01:14:55 <HackEgo> 7454:2016-04-17 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/stance/stence/\' wisdom/{macedonia,taiwan} \ 7452:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn Macedonia is a country of which the United Nations denies the existance, just like Taiwan is. \ 7451:2016-04-17 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/macedonia{," and taiwan"} \ 7439:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn Macedonia and Taiwan are two count
01:26:09 <oerjan> <DHeadshot> "That Feeling When" <-- that's not how i parsed it hth
01:31:04 <HackEgo> hand injury//Hand injuries are surprisingly common among webcomic writers, see eg. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2314 or http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html
01:31:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:34:05 <HackEgo> orodruin//The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient.
01:37:14 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/wisdom
01:37:38 <shachaf> fizzie: whoa whoa whoa, you jammed up the thing
01:37:46 <shachaf> fizzie: Is the code it's running up somewhere?
01:39:03 <fizzie> shachaf: https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackedit
01:39:17 <fizzie> Try to avoid exposing any huge security problems, I'm thinking of going to sleep.
01:39:44 <shachaf> I don't think you'd ever write code with a security problem.
01:40:22 <fizzie> I don't have a great track record with actual HackEgo patches lately.
01:40:39 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, you actually store the files on disk? Permanently?
01:42:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:43:14 <boily> fungot: is fizzie treating you well?
01:43:15 <fungot> boily: ( call-with-input-string " " read)
01:43:24 -!- heroux has joined.
01:43:26 * boily calls fungot with an input string
01:43:26 <fungot> boily: and relative addressing the primary reason for building a collection. considering this, boost is very carefully isolated into a couple passes...
01:47:56 <\oren\> Hmm, I'm really getting into the whole KSP automation thing
01:48:13 <shachaf> \oren\: you should play factorio instead hth
02:09:11 <HackEgo> dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. Its chime sounds like potatoes.
02:10:00 <boily> `slwd dingas/s/Its.*$/It chimes like potatoes./
02:10:04 <boily> `slwd dingas//s/Its.*$/It chimes like potatoes./
02:10:06 <HackEgo> dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. It chimes like potatoes.
02:10:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DEEPER CHICKEN).
02:15:14 <\oren\> but does it take place in space?
02:16:17 <shachaf> I think you crash from space onto an alien planet at the beginning.
02:16:28 <shachaf> Your goal (?) is to build a rocket so you can get off the planet.
02:16:58 <shachaf> The planet is full of aliens who don't care much about you at first but get mad when you start polluting their planet.
02:20:13 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
02:20:31 -!- staffehn has joined.
02:55:45 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:13:39 -!- adu has joined.
03:48:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:50:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb).
04:02:21 -!- augur has joined.
04:02:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:08:43 -!- madgoat has joined.
04:08:44 -!- madgoat has left.
04:12:42 -!- augur has joined.
04:34:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
04:37:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
04:53:06 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:14:08 <\oren\> On the item is a masterfully designed image of Lâven, the deity of trees, depicted as a female tick in red zircon by Ustuth èrithvel. Lâven is █
05:16:57 <zzo38> Do you have to build the rocket that won't make the pollution, then?
05:21:24 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
05:21:42 -!- staffehn has joined.
05:27:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51047 * Ganondork * (+1860) Created page with " ==Introduction== '''SolboScript''' is an esoteric programming language consisting entirely of 'ROCK SOLBO' and variations of 'BWEEEEE'. SolboScript was inspired by [http://ww..."
05:31:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ganondork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51048&oldid=51044 * Ganondork * (+78)
06:11:20 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:20:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51049&oldid=51014 * Zzo38 * (-15)
06:24:59 -!- Cale has joined.
06:36:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:08:21 -!- pelegreno has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:09:36 -!- pelegreno has joined.
07:22:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:39:20 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:41:52 <zzo38> I made a new JavaScript based implementation of Underload.
08:21:08 <\oren\> AAAA THE gif is in sync how does they do that
08:21:22 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/prUd4s5P-iM
08:34:05 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:47:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:28:49 -!- augur has joined.
09:36:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:09:20 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:13:19 -!- LKoen has joined.
10:22:29 -!- staffehn has joined.
11:13:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:13:58 -!- augur has joined.
11:15:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:25:01 <HackEgo> impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database.
11:25:06 <HackEgo> 370) <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, living in the future sucks. <Phantom_Hoover> The past just keeps coming up to us and trying to make us feel guilty.
11:25:10 <HackEgo> th the garlic and add taste \ grated liqueur together. Roll out the dough and label the dough. Use a \ liquid, sugar steaks. Turn off any flour; stir in \ beans, cooking oil and orange juice. Add the yogurt, corn syrup and bring \ to taste. Mix well and the flour and set aside. \ Yield: along well omit the tiny about 1/2 inch the \ shrimp. St
11:26:08 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e 'local$/=\999;seek STDIN,rand((-s STDIN)-299),0 or die;print<STDIN>=~y/ \t/ /sr;' < share/recipe/recipes.txt
11:32:57 <int-e> b_jonas: you don't want to mix up the dough and the turd.
11:33:22 -!- boily has joined.
11:51:01 <HackEgo> everyone//Everyone in here is mad.
11:51:15 <boily> . o O ( madbr is mad. I am sane. )
11:51:20 <HackEgo> ha//Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad
11:52:32 <boily> A Elbereth Gilthoniel \\ Silivren penna míriel
11:57:14 <int-e> Wonko the Sane was sane. It even says so in his name.
11:58:29 <int-e> "It seemed to me," said Wonko the Sane, "that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include a set of detailed instructions for use in a packet of toothpicks, was no longer a civilization in which I could live and stay sane."
12:25:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ANNEALED CHICKEAN).
12:35:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:18:17 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:38:25 <b_jonas> zzo38: I've had this crazy idea yesterday: {{{Goblin Airport Security | RR | Sorcery | Each player reveals his or her hand then discards an artifact card. Each card discarded this way deals 2 damage to you.}}}
13:47:35 -!- erkin has joined.
14:00:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:34:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:08:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:12:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51050&oldid=50789 * Ferrosurgeon * (-4626) Begin deletability?
15:46:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:06:26 -!- furozo has joined.
16:29:26 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:35:54 <zzo38> Does it mean you will earn two poison counters if a card with infect is discarded? (That is, if the discarded cards themselves are the source of the damage)
16:36:25 <zzo38> (and then protection from artifacts would also prevent that damage)
16:41:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:43:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kenobi * New user account
16:57:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51051&oldid=51045 * Kenobi * (+181)
16:58:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:0815]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51052&oldid=35386 * Kenobi * (+467) /* Language Details are not clear */ new section
16:58:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: if a card with infect is discarded, then yes, you'll earn two poison counters;
16:59:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[0815]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51053&oldid=44637 * Kenobi * (+29) /* Queue instructions */
16:59:59 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:00:38 <b_jonas> and yes, if you had protection from artifacts, that would protects you from the damage too, because of 702.16a, but afaik there's nothing that can give a player protection from artifacts
17:00:57 <b_jonas> Runed Halo can protect you from particular artifact cards
17:02:16 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:04:16 <b_jonas> I guess this makes sense, if the inept security guards confiscate a nail clipper with infect, then it will deal infect damage when it explodes.
17:06:14 <b_jonas> The problem I had with figuring out this card is the color wheel. Black makes you discard cards, but black can't explicitly deal with just artifacts or just enchantments. It can go for creatures, or lands, or cards in general, or nonland or noncreature or nonland noncreature cards, or cards in a graveyard.
17:09:17 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:09:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:09:20 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:09:20 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:09:23 <b_jonas> Whereas white can go for artifacts (confiscating them in Aether Revolt, or offering them in Zendikar), and green can go for artifacts (reusing them as flowerpots), and red can go for artifacts (just breaking them),
17:09:35 <b_jonas> but black generally can't.
17:10:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:10:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
17:10:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:10:07 -!- MoALTz has joined.
17:10:32 <b_jonas> I thought of making a multicolored card, but it still didn't work out.
17:10:42 <b_jonas> This was the best way I could make sense of it.
17:20:15 -!- fractal has joined.
17:20:54 -!- yorick_ has joined.
17:30:28 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:32:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Lutfig]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "{{WIP}} Lutfig is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookup_table#Hardware_LUTs lookup table] configuration language inspired by the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array FPGA], which almost lacks the..."
17:35:44 <int-e> . o O ( Lutfig fan Beethofen )
17:35:49 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
17:35:56 <int-e> Or should that be Peethofen?
17:36:12 <oerjan> yes, mezzacotta, that's just where i came from!
17:36:24 <oerjan> also, we finally learn grandma's name!
17:36:54 <oerjan> . o O ( it was a bit of a bridge to cross )
17:36:54 <int-e> I've only seen xkcd so far
17:37:15 <oerjan> THAT'S WHERE I WAS JUST BEFORE. AMAZING!
17:37:53 <int-e> And I don't know why you brought up Mezzacotta.
17:38:22 <oerjan> because of today's comic hth
17:42:01 <int-e> . o O ( sitting at the Truth Table )\
17:44:48 <HackEgo> Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs.
17:46:10 <oerjan> we're a bit sparse on physics
17:59:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:00:52 <HackEgo> erudecorp:Erudecorp is the shortform of e-rude corporation. The term is used for corporations that are electronically rude. \ Binary file reflection matches \ zarutian:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocap
18:01:11 <HackEgo> 2/3:ore about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers. He is also known for making rather long HackEgo wisdom entries. Take for instance this entry. It has a whole subentry just on Icelandic unner
18:01:35 <HackEgo> 3/3:ver. Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own.
18:02:00 <b_jonas> zarutian makes long wisdom entries? no way, I make way longer ones.
18:02:05 <b_jonas> though oerjan sometimes delete them
18:03:20 <oerjan> isn't that mostly shachaf these days
18:06:32 <b_jonas> strangely, wisdom/zarutian is actually the second longest wisdom entry right now
18:06:40 <b_jonas> it seems oerjan has deleted all the very long ones
18:09:32 <b_jonas> But the first and fifth and sixth and seventh longest wisdom entries are mine.
18:10:11 <b_jonas> and some of those are stupid and should be fixed too
18:10:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:12:18 <b_jonas> ``` perl -i -pe 'warn 0+s/\bHORU\b/HOUR/g' wisdom/time
18:12:18 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/time: No such file or directory.
18:12:22 <b_jonas> ``` perl -i -pe 'warn 0+s/\bHORU\b/HOUR/g' wisdom/time\ cube
18:12:24 <HackEgo> 1 at -e line 1, <> line 1.
18:12:37 <HackEgo> 10239:2017-02-12 <oerjän> learn It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to co\xc3\xb6perate. \ 10235:2017-02-12 <shachäf> forget it \ 8403:2016-06-08 <shachäf> sled wisdom/it//s\\ $\\\\ \ 8397:2016-06-07 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. " \ 7481:2016-04-18 <b_jonäs> `` sed -i "s#governments.*#governments, /
18:13:50 <HackEgo> It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate.
18:13:59 <oerjan> `before wisdom/timecube
18:14:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/timecube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (alrea
18:14:11 <HackEgo> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible t
18:14:39 <oerjan> `8ball is it decidedly or certainly?
18:14:56 <oerjan> b_jonas: i don't know hth
18:15:40 <b_jonas> I don't trust hackego's 8ball command
18:15:49 <b_jonas> perhaps try /msg perlbot 8-ball
18:18:00 <b_jonas> why can't I query its revisions... damn
18:18:21 * oerjan sidles away from the bad karma
18:20:41 <oerjan> `8ball are you jealous of perlbot's 8-ball?
18:21:11 -!- BooK has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:25:08 <int-e> almost quote-worthy
18:31:08 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host).
18:31:08 -!- sparr has joined.
18:33:27 -!- LKoen has joined.
18:33:53 -!- LKoen has quit (Client Quit).
18:36:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:38:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:41:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:12:48 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:15:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:44:10 -!- augur has joined.
20:02:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:44:51 <fizzie> well, I guess that's understandable.
20:48:30 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
20:49:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:53:32 -!- [io] has joined.
20:56:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:56:16 -!- [io] has quit (Changing host).
20:56:16 -!- [io] has joined.
20:58:23 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest36077.
20:58:23 -!- Guest36077 has quit (Killed (leguin.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))).
20:58:23 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid.
20:59:01 -!- augur has joined.
20:59:04 -!- iovoid- has joined.
21:01:36 -!- iovoid- has quit (Client Quit).
21:09:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:09:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
21:09:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:15:41 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick.
21:19:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:24:37 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:25:58 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
21:33:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:45:19 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
21:47:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Alas.).
21:49:23 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
21:51:27 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_.
21:57:48 -!- gsora has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:59:49 -!- gsora has joined.
22:05:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:05:54 -!- augur has joined.
22:14:20 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
22:14:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51054&oldid=50767 * Dpleshkov * (+172)
22:16:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:25:35 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:28:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:35:02 -!- Akaibu has joined.
22:36:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Solbofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51055 * Ganondork * (+1405) Created page with "==Introduction== '''Solbofuck''' is the [[SolboScript]] version of [[Brainfuck]]. SolboFuck is a [[TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]]. Solbofuck was created by [[User:Ganondork]]...."
22:38:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ganondork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51056&oldid=51048 * Ganondork * (+32) /* Created Languages */
22:43:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:44:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ganondork * moved [[SolboScript]] to [[Esolang:SolboScript]]
22:44:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:45:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ganondork * moved [[Esolang:SolboScript]] to [[SolboScript]] over redirect
22:48:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:49:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
22:50:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51061&oldid=51022 * Ganondork * (+16) Added Solbofuck to brainfuck derivatives.
22:52:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51062&oldid=51061 * Ganondork * (+18) Added SolboScript to general languages.
22:53:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51063&oldid=51059 * Ganondork * (+4) Added the detail that it's a joke language.
22:57:28 -!- boily has joined.
22:58:06 <HackEgo> heffalump//A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead.
23:00:01 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
23:00:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51064&oldid=51063 * Ganondork * (+29) Added to Joke languages category
23:01:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Solbofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51065&oldid=51055 * Ganondork * (+29) Added to Joke languages category
23:13:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:15:45 -!- augur has joined.
23:16:51 <HackEgo> mad//This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
23:17:01 <HackEgo> bonsaikitten//Bonsaikitten is the cat typing behind the glass of the CRT when you run the cat command.
23:17:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:18:53 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:19:16 -!- tromp has joined.
23:23:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:34:42 <HackEgo> fat//Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, coffee and alcohol.
23:34:47 <HackEgo> hydrogen//Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.
23:35:13 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:41:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:43:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51066&oldid=51064 * Ganondork * (+18) Added to category: 2017
23:51:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Solbofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51067&oldid=51065 * Ganondork * (+18) Added to 2017 category
23:54:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ILLEGAL CHICKEN).
23:54:37 -!- augur has joined.
00:00:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:35:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:36:38 <fizzie> Random thought: from the way the logo looks like, I thought the name of that one guy was "tie⃛sto", not "tiësto".
00:37:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:38:09 -!- augur has joined.
00:43:07 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: look <-- where? WHERE? OH MY GOD WHAT'S HAPPENING
00:43:35 <shachaf> oerjan: You were blaming me for something related to wisdom.
00:44:15 <oerjan> shachaf: yes? do you claim innocence?
00:44:55 <oerjan> although mostly i was blaming boily for confusing you with me
00:56:40 <zzo38> How to lock out the HD channels and SD channels independently on the Motorola cable box? When I set the lock it wants to set the lock together
00:59:15 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/wisdom/oerjan
01:01:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:25:51 <oerjan> now _that_ is just evil.
01:27:25 <oerjan> using `edit for wisdoms
01:28:45 <oerjan> . o O ( perhaps it should construct a `sled instead of a `fetch when it's short enough :P )
01:28:56 <fizzie> oerjan: I was thinking of putting in a diffy kind of summary in the commit message when it's very short.
01:29:29 <fizzie> In the message you get for `fetch.
01:29:52 <oerjan> hm that would also work
01:30:47 <fizzie> (The `sled thing could be doable too, though then it'd have to fetch the HackEgo copy every time. A `mk-when-short would be trivial.)
01:31:14 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
01:31:27 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
01:31:54 <oerjan> `` mkx test//yo; mk test//hi; ls -l test
01:31:56 <HackEgo> test \ test \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 3 Feb 21 01:31 test
01:31:58 <fizzie> Incidentally, there's no `fetchx, which does mean that you still end up with two lines of history if making a new command.
01:32:20 <oerjan> just checking that it at least preserves mode
01:32:24 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
01:32:30 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
01:32:50 <oerjan> `fetch test http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/wisdom/oerjan
01:32:51 <HackEgo> 2017-02-21 01:32:29 URL:http://hackego.esolangs.org/get/wisdom/oerjan [335/335] -> "test" [1]
01:32:58 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 335 Feb 21 01:32 test
01:33:19 <fizzie> Yeah, updating existing executables is fine.
01:33:34 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ \ if len(sys.argv) < 2: \ sys.exit('http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/') \ \ f = os.path.realpath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|ignore$|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is not editable.") \ print 'http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/' + urllib.qu
01:34:20 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:36:19 <oerjan> . o O ( hm should have used tmp/test )
01:38:15 -!- augur has joined.
01:38:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:40:17 <fizzie> I was also considering patching `fetch to use a temporary file for wget and only clobber the named file if successful, which seems a little more user-friendly.
01:42:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:44:58 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:47:45 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
01:48:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
01:50:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Esolang:SolboScript]]": Mistaken move
01:51:57 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:52:31 -!- augur has joined.
01:53:56 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
01:54:31 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left.
02:05:34 -!- ^v has joined.
02:27:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:30:13 -!- furozo has joined.
02:36:54 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
02:39:09 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
02:39:22 -!- augur has joined.
03:13:51 <zzo38> I am playing Rogue and I touched some gap in the floor, and then it asked for a save file, and after restoring the save file, it is now level 29285, armor -269, and I get the message "In some bizarre place (1, 61)" and when trying to move, instead get similar messages with other numbers. Do you know what that is?
03:14:05 <zzo38> Also now next to the time it says "Lattice C 1.02cas"
03:15:36 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
03:16:03 <zzo38> Also, my mace emitted a flash of white light upon first entering the room that had that gap.
04:39:00 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
04:39:23 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to Guest46174.
04:50:51 <\oren\> what kind of food is a "nokky"?
04:54:10 <quintopia> i just heard carlsagan42 talking to bjonas in a youtube video. such a strange small world we are in
05:00:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:02:07 <oerjan> \oren\: gnocchi perhaps?
05:07:27 -!- Guest46174 has quit (Quit: Alas.).
05:14:50 <\oren\> yeah that's what it was
05:15:05 <\oren\> I was watching hell's kitchen
05:19:54 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
05:21:25 -!- ChatSharp has left.
05:26:33 <zzo38> I had another idea of Magic: the Gathering card which would be: ~'s power and toughness are each equal to the number of counters on you. (regardless what kind of counter)
05:28:12 <pikhq> It's a fairly neat and novel effect, yet also quite simple.
05:28:31 <zzo38> Yes, it is what I thought too
05:29:46 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhout.
05:30:36 -!- shikhin has joined.
05:31:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:31:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51068 * Destructible watermelon * (+170) Created page with "Did you just call Brainfuck a joke lang and useless? →🚪 get out ~~~"
05:31:49 -!- shikhin has joined.
05:35:41 -!- shikhout has quit (Quit: thanks to heddwch).
06:06:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51069&oldid=51068 * Oerjan * (+240) Nope
06:33:34 -!- pledis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
06:37:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
06:58:34 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:05:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:21:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
08:01:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:01:53 -!- augur has joined.
08:06:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:26:37 -!- augur has joined.
08:27:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:34:00 -!- augur has joined.
09:08:18 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
09:09:17 -!- BooK has joined.
09:13:30 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:18:17 -!- ais523 has joined.
09:20:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:27:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:39:45 -!- LKoen has joined.
09:41:02 -!- trn has joined.
09:45:26 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_.
09:45:31 <ais523_> whoops, I was using the wrong nick
10:16:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:32:42 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:53:25 -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:00:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:10:55 -!- boily has joined.
11:11:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
11:28:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:35:50 <HackEgo> boxmodel//boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
11:38:30 <boily> Tanelle. please note that I do not condone any caging.
11:40:03 <boily> . o O ( what is the volume of the average human? )
11:40:57 <int-e> 1/2 m^3? let's google.
11:41:14 <int-e> actually that's silly
11:41:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:41:57 <boily> “So, knowing two of our three variables, we have a mass of 70kg divided by a density of 985 kg/m^3 equal to our volume, or .0711 cubic meters, and since 1 cubic meter = 1000 liters, around 71 liters.” ― https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-volume-of-average-human
11:42:24 <int-e> I should divide weight by density, so 0.07m^3 maybe.
11:42:55 <boily> about 2500 fl oz then.
11:43:06 <int-e> a bit more because people, barely, float.
11:43:12 <int-e> whatever fl oz are.
11:43:49 <boily> fluid ounces, the tastiest unit there is.
11:44:20 <boily> floating is a foreign concept. I sink.
11:44:39 <int-e> boily: I can say the words, I have no intuition for the unit.
11:45:14 <int-e> but perhaps I should've written "whatever fluid ounces are". but it's too late.
11:46:09 <int-e> boily: that's how we test for cyborgs.
11:46:30 <int-e> (it's similar to the test for witches in the middle ages)
11:50:38 <boily> I'm not a cyborg, and I'm not a witch, nor a duck.
11:50:53 -!- augur has joined.
11:54:06 <Taneb> Dunking would be a bit of a weird Voight-Kampff
11:56:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:57:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
11:59:06 <boily> Taneb: the machine, or the empathy test?
11:59:34 <Taneb> boily, the purpose
12:03:42 <int-e> speaking of cyborgs, https://imgur.com/gallery/VgxcD is funny.
12:04:10 <int-e> (well, it's still kind of funny today)
12:11:13 -!- Zarutian has joined.
12:11:59 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:12:18 -!- Zarutian has joined.
12:14:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EMULSION CHICKEN).
12:28:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
12:30:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:53:13 -!- augur has joined.
12:57:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:01:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:14:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:47:29 -!- moony has joined.
13:53:52 -!- augur has joined.
13:58:20 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:00:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:25:04 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
14:28:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
14:31:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
14:33:44 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:34:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:42:35 -!- furozo has joined.
14:54:44 -!- augur has joined.
14:59:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:10:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
15:18:08 <Taneb> izabera, you sound rather bold this afternoon, izabera
15:26:46 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
15:30:36 -!- furozo has joined.
15:36:58 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit (Quit: jeffl35 has quit ...).
15:42:32 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: leaving).
15:55:25 -!- augur has joined.
16:00:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:04:35 -!- viznut_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
16:05:40 -!- viznut has joined.
16:23:00 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:24:33 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
16:24:51 -!- idris-bot has joined.
16:26:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit).
16:27:05 -!- idris-bot has joined.
16:29:45 -!- iczero has joined.
16:30:29 -!- iczero has changed nick to wlp1s1.
16:30:44 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit).
16:31:04 -!- idris-bot has joined.
16:34:24 -!- augur has joined.
16:43:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:33:18 <oerjan> i dunno, i'm not paying attention
17:38:45 <quintopia> not paying attention to your life???
17:39:49 <HackEgo> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
17:41:16 <oerjan> i wasn't actually talking about my life, anyway.
17:43:26 <oerjan> oh right, trump said something stupid about sweden, i noticed that.
17:47:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:48:48 <quintopia> i was asking about what was new with you in particular. have you done or made anything cool?
17:55:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
17:57:18 <shachaf> oerjan: sorry to hear about what you swedes are going through hth
17:59:48 * oerjan whacks shachaf with the saucepan ===\__/
18:00:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:00:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:06:56 -!- heroux has joined.
18:10:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:12:07 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:12:57 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:13:37 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:20:07 <HackEgo> olist 1066: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
19:50:43 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:53:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:59:47 -!- newsham has joined.
20:04:28 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:36:02 -!- trn has joined.
20:44:33 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
20:47:45 -!- _thum has joined.
20:48:27 -!- _thum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:48:56 -!- _thum has joined.
20:49:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
20:49:50 <_thum> why are there so few women on irc?
20:51:03 <_thum> somebody should write a book on the subject...
20:51:35 <_thum> what are the social forces that prevent women from reaching irc
20:52:10 -!- mroman has joined.
20:53:01 <_thum> anybody? anybody got any clues as to why?
20:53:32 <HackEgo> _thum: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:53:58 -!- thum_ has joined.
20:54:21 <thum_> esoteric programming? lol
20:54:40 <thum_> i guess anything other than C is esoteric
20:56:28 <int-e> There are lots of non-esoteric languages. Java, C#, Python, Perl, Ruby, PHP, Rust, Swift, SQL, JavaScript, Visual Basic, VHDL, Verilog, TCL, various shells...
20:57:35 -!- _thum has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:57:41 <thum_> yeah, i agree, i guess Prolog is esoteric
20:58:02 <int-e> no, Prolog and Lisp are also non-esoteric. So are Mathematica and MATLAB.
20:58:27 <int-e> Or Haskell, Caml, OCaml
20:58:56 -!- _thum has joined.
20:58:56 <int-e> They've all been made and are being used to write real programs.
20:59:02 <int-e> your connection sucks.
20:59:26 <HackEgo> _thum: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:59:53 <_thum> oh, sorry, this isn't wood shop?
21:00:20 <int-e> I don't know what you mean, so I suppose the answer is "yes"?
21:01:03 <_thum> you guessed right, but seriously, i thought it was about esoteric knowledge in general
21:01:14 <_thum> not just programming
21:02:45 -!- thum_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:04:08 -!- thum_ has joined.
21:04:48 <int-e> Na, we wander off topic but then we tend to discuss games (like Magic: the Gathering, text adventures or Dwarf Fortress (not in a long time?), web comics and science. Oh and wisdom.
21:04:54 <HackEgo> applicative functor//Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
21:05:46 <shachaf> Sometimes we don't close our parentheses.
21:06:50 <int-e> (most of the time it's not even deliberate)))
21:07:53 -!- _thum has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:07:58 <thum_> i got an esoteric language for ya... HLSL
21:08:37 <int-e> high level shading language? .. no it's shader
21:09:09 -!- _thum has joined.
21:09:11 <int-e> It's not esoteric either, I'm afraid. Just like OpenCL isn't, or the older assembly like OpenGL shading language
21:09:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found
21:09:32 <HackEgo> The wiki is at <http://esolangs.org/>.
21:09:46 <_thum> how esoteric do you have to be?
21:10:38 <_thum> hehe.. "brainfuck"
21:11:22 <int-e> INTERCAL is historcally interesting; Befunge is quite popular too
21:11:40 <int-e> fungot: do you like Befunge?
21:11:40 <fungot> int-e: i thought an eigenvalue was. now i feel better already than common lisp?
21:11:54 <int-e> (fungot is a bot written in Befunge)
21:11:54 <fungot> int-e: something about formal methods iirc? if not, don't mind it
21:12:50 -!- thum_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:16:01 <_thum> http://pastebin.com/6Dn5Zur1
21:16:12 <_thum> this is my latest psudo noise function
21:18:11 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:18:16 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
21:18:29 <int-e> (so basically that's where it learned its vocabulary)
21:18:30 -!- _thum has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:19:10 -!- _thum has joined.
21:19:26 <_thum> new esoteric language... "nutation"
21:19:43 <int-e> hmm, would the noise be prettier with a sawtooth instead of frac()? just wondering
21:21:06 <_thum> i dunno... try it... it's nice to program something and see results right away
21:22:01 <int-e> I can't easily test it.
21:23:13 <_thum> yeah, just get k-lite codec pack... then you can write shaders on the fly
21:23:17 <int-e> (I'd have to translate it to OpenCL, and find some test harness for opengl shaders that I don't have, though that should not take *too* long.)
21:23:46 * int-e is running GNU/Linux
21:24:15 -!- thum_ has joined.
21:24:59 <thum_> the media player even disassembles it for you... well, it's easy to do, directx does the compiling
21:25:00 <int-e> instead of frac(x), a possible sawtooth function would be abs(frac(x)*2-1)
21:25:42 * int-e goes outside for a bit
21:26:55 <thum_> hrm, well, you're still getting into the same 0-1 range? heh
21:27:16 <thum_> but how it looks on the screen is a different issue
21:27:46 <thum_> well, no, you'd be in 1-2 range.. :(
21:27:57 -!- _thum has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:28:52 <int-e> frac(x) is in [0,1); frac(x)*2 is in [0,2); frac(x)*2-1 is in [-1,1), abs(...) is in [0,1].
21:32:21 -!- thum_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:38:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
21:44:19 -!- augur has joined.
22:03:08 -!- zemhill___ has joined.
22:06:50 -!- zemhill__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:07:55 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/mynameisntdave/status/586761774554292224
22:25:04 <int-e> lambdabot: I almost definitely did not
22:25:31 <int-e> (maybe I should special-case that "command")
22:26:01 <int-e> first word a sequence of punctuation --> ignore
22:26:16 <int-e> need to be carefuly not to catch @@
22:26:58 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
22:27:03 <lambdabot> ?? executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
22:27:03 <lambdabot> The commands are right associative.
22:27:03 <lambdabot> is the same as: ?? (?pl (?undo code))
22:27:14 <lambdabot> @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
22:27:14 <lambdabot> The commands are right associative.
22:27:14 <lambdabot> is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code))
22:39:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:40:47 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:42:21 -!- rigoberto has joined.
22:47:00 <HackEgo> rigoberto: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
22:47:32 <HackEgo> rigoberto: welcome.it? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:47:42 <HackEgo> 5272:2015-03-21 <oerjän> cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i \'s/es/it/g\' bin/benvenuto \ 5271:2015-03-21 <oerjän> cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i \'s/es/it/\' bin/benvenuto \ 5270:2015-03-21 <oerjän> cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i \'s/es/it/\' bin/bienvenuto
22:47:58 <shachaf> oerjan: what's that all about, the dogs now howl
22:51:09 -!- rigoberto has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:53:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:55:35 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:04:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:08:36 -!- boily has joined.
23:11:43 <HackEgo> funpun//funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
23:14:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:16:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:16:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:18:11 -!- IronY has changed nick to Irony.
23:18:27 <HackEgo> cube//Cubes come in all sizes, colors, and materials, but only one shape. The companion cube does not speak, however.
23:19:02 <boily> cubes are evil. they tumble on the wrong side.
23:19:07 <HackEgo> intelligence//Intelligence is a scarce resource that is distributed by the CIA.
23:19:08 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:19:35 -!- tromp has joined.
23:21:11 <fizzie> boily: Uryybpun, isn't that a pok-é-mon?
23:21:55 <boily> fizziello. we'll have to catch shachaf to know.
23:25:14 -!- Irony has changed nick to IronY.
23:33:55 <HackEgo> ghoti//"Ghoti" is a very fishy spelling.
23:34:11 <HackEgo> 1/2:zimbabwe//olsner's desk points zimbabwards. It is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. \ cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. \ the universe//The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet. \ //The final frontier. \ monomorphis
23:34:24 <boily> `slwd ghoti//s"^."“"
23:34:26 <HackEgo> ghoti//“Ghoti" is a very fishy spelling.
23:34:39 <HackEgo> 2/2:m//A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
23:34:42 <boily> `slwd ghoti//si"i”i
23:34:44 <HackEgo> ghoti//“Ghoti” is a very fishy spelling.
23:35:39 <boily> once again I tried today to write a ‘public interface Applicative<...> extends Functor<...>’. didn't work :/
23:40:29 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:55:36 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 6: not found
23:57:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:01:13 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
00:01:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:11:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mapole: not found
00:14:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51070&oldid=51024 * Hsorenson * (-9) .drift was dumb long, so changed it in the syntax file, so changing it elsewhere.
00:15:01 -!- furozo has joined.
00:15:31 -!- furozo has quit (Client Quit).
00:15:49 -!- furozo has joined.
00:24:01 <oerjan> `8ball are you a regular 8ball?
00:24:23 <shachaf> `8ball are you a regular 8ball?
00:24:46 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Wed Feb 22 01:24:44 2017
00:26:40 <shachaf> I'm surprised you hadn't noticed the string successful 8ball responses I've had lately before.
00:26:50 <HackEgo> 10222:2017-02-10 <shachäf> mkx bin/8\x0fball//cat tmp/8
00:27:31 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
00:27:37 <shachaf> did you trick me by saying "aha"? :'(
00:28:08 <oerjan> i hadn't actually looked at the file
00:29:02 <oerjan> so i didn't realize is was this flexible. also i was puzzled that there was nothing in the repo
00:29:25 <shachaf> I shouldn't've spoiled it.
00:31:42 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:33:14 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*.it: No such file or directory
00:34:48 <oerjan> yes, but why would i make it if welcome.it didn't exist...
00:35:18 <shachaf> this is all a consequence of <shachaf> `forget it
00:35:55 <HackEgo> 10239:2017-02-12 <oerjän> learn It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to co\xc3\xb6perate. \ 10235:2017-02-12 <shachäf> forget it \ 8403:2016-06-08 <shachäf> sled wisdom/it//s\\ $\\\\ \ 8397:2016-06-07 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/it echo -n "Taneb invented it. " \ 7481:2016-04-18 <b_jonäs> `` sed -i "s#governments.*#governments, /
00:36:14 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/it
00:36:32 <HackEgo> Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:36:58 <shachaf> `swrjan s,Glasswegian,Glaswedish,
00:37:00 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glaswedish who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:37:26 <oerjan> your forget doesn't show up in the file history
00:37:59 <HackEgo> 1/7:changeset: 10239:4eac6577f64d \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Feb 12 17:42:02 2017 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> learn It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to co\xc3\xb6perate. \ \ changeset: 8403:03c076827f4e \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jun 08 04:59:30 2016 +0000 \ summary: <shachaf> sl
00:38:14 <shachaf> `1 hg log --removed wisdom/it
00:38:16 <HackEgo> 1/9:changeset: 10239:4eac6577f64d \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Feb 12 17:42:02 2017 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> learn It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to co\xc3\xb6perate. \ \ changeset: 10235:871c67268793 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Feb 12 01:15:52 2017 +0000 \ summary: <shachaf> f
00:38:23 <oerjan> well, that was stupidly convoluted to confirm my suspicion
00:38:28 <shachaf> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/rev/871c67268793
00:38:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i already found it hth
00:38:42 <shachaf> I guess the web UI doesn't do --removed for some reason?
00:40:31 <boily> just for the record, is it italic or reversed “wise”?
00:40:43 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/ish/e/
00:40:45 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:40:50 <boily> (weechat in screen sometimes screws up ANSI sequences...)
00:41:09 <oerjan> it looks reversed to me
00:41:13 <shachaf> i need to read the whole sentence
00:42:30 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:43:24 * oerjan suspects that didn't work
00:45:23 <boily> oerjan has like, 18/20 Wis, like, y'know.
00:45:34 <oerjan> i don't know what a Yourmessages-lord would be, anyway.
00:45:34 <rdococ> s/@messages/@massages/
00:45:49 <boily> it is I who massages.
00:46:01 <oerjan> helloily. i thought i had more Int...
00:46:19 <boily> I don't know all your stats >_>'...
00:46:34 <boily> . o O ( what's average, again? 10? 12? )
00:47:02 <oerjan> definitely trying to gain Wis, but it's a slow process.
00:47:22 <fizzie> oerjan: Just look down at the status lines.
00:47:38 <boily> [19:47] [8] [irc/freenode] 2:#esoteric(+Cn){107} [H: 7, 4(2)] ← not very helpful...
00:47:56 <oerjan> i suppose massages would still stay within the edit limit
00:49:14 <oerjan> 01:49 | oerjan (+i) | 2:#esoteric (+Cn) |
00:49:41 <oerjan> [0] 0:pine- 1:irssi* 2:tcsh "hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no" 01:49 22-Feb-17
00:50:15 <fizzie> I was expecting something with St, Dx, Co, In, Wi and Ch in it.
00:50:26 <boily> 0:WeeChat 1.4* 1:bash- 48C 0.18 2.0GHz 3.9G38% njorun 192.168.1.9 ← screen with byobu
00:50:28 <oerjan> sorry, i don't see that line.
00:50:40 <oerjan> i guess i may be an NPC.
00:51:12 <fizzie> selene 0:50 // 0$* irssi 1-$ bash 2$ bash 3$ bash 4$ bash 5$ bash 6$ bash 7$ bash 8$ bash 9$ bash 10$ bash 11$ bash 12$ bash 13$ bash 14$ bash
00:51:20 <fizzie> These windows may have gotten a little out of hand.
00:51:22 <boily> oerjan: welcome to Corneria.
00:51:36 <boily> fizzie: selene is your machine's name?
00:51:58 <int-e> fizzie: obviously it's time to open a new xterm ;)
00:52:05 <fizzie> It's one of those virtual ones.
00:52:47 <fizzie> int-e: I have mod-a bound to a XMonad "scratchpad" terminal showing a different screen session, and that one's got so many windows the status line is not long enough to hold it.
00:53:10 <fizzie> (I keep the scratchpad pop-up smaller than fullscreen.)
00:53:54 <fizzie> Oh, if I move it to the bigger screen it's big enough. (I think XMonad keeps the window size as a fraction of the screen size in this case.)
00:54:00 <fizzie> eris 0:53 // 0$ bash 1$ bash 2$ bash 3$ bash 4$ bash 5$ bash 6-$ bash 7$* bash 8$ bash 9$ bash 10$ bash 11$ bash 12$ bash 13$ bash 14$ bash 15$ bash 16$ bash 17$ bash
00:54:30 <fizzie> I used to have this problem only with browser tabs, but lately it's been happening with screen windows as well.
00:55:31 <boily> do you sometimes close shells? or do they all run something in parallel?
00:55:40 <oerjan> boily: I like swatters.
00:56:11 <fizzie> boily: Mostly they're not doing anything. I just accumulate them, since it's faster to open a new one than to parse what's in an existing one to be sure if it's okay to reuse.
00:56:51 <fizzie> (One is actually running mutt, I just didn't start it directly or set the title.)
00:56:53 <shachaf> oerjan: What? that wouldn't've happened.
00:57:10 <shachaf> `` perl -pe 's/.w.{9}//' < wisdom/oerjan
00:57:11 <HackEgo> Your @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:57:31 <boily> shachaf: weren't you anti-contractions?
00:57:44 <fizzie> boily: Turned out three of them just had a single 'date' command executed.
00:57:55 <fizzie> (I use that if I need current time with seconds.)
00:58:19 <fizzie> (And one had 'cal 2017'.)
01:02:35 <oerjan> shachaf: oh right, forgot the format codes
01:03:29 <int-e> 10 xterms right now, hmm. not so many :)
01:04:15 <int-e> (however I tend to not use screen so much, only remotely like for IRC or long-running commands)
01:06:12 <fizzie> int-e: The third thing (after browser tabs and screen windows) I'm starting to accumulate like that are Emacs buffers, since setting up emacsclient stuff & a scratchpad Emacs.
01:07:49 -!- ybden has quit (Excess Flood).
01:08:15 <oerjan> fizzie: in my tmux shell windows tend to get renamed automatically when i run a command in them...
01:08:46 <fizzie> I don't think screen does that, at least out of the box automatically.
01:08:57 <oerjan> although i had some trouble with pine, so that got an explicit name in tmux.conf.
01:09:03 -!- ybden has joined.
01:10:05 <fizzie> They get the name of the command if I open the window directly with "<C-a>:screen some_command_here", but not if I do what I always do, which is "<C-a>csome_command_here".
01:10:30 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
01:10:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan \ wisdom/œrjan \ wisdom/örjan \ wisdom/ørjan \ wisdom/typoerjan \ wisdom/אrjan
01:11:26 <HackEgo> אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
01:11:57 <boily> shouldn't it be ו?
01:13:11 <oerjan> `learn sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin.
01:13:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'sewerjan': sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin.
01:13:31 <shachaf> how many twins does oerjan have?
01:13:38 <HackEgo> [U+05D5 HEBREW LETTER VAV]
01:16:13 <oerjan> boily: i don't think ו is commonly used for cardinals? although who knows what set theorists are up to.
01:16:48 <shachaf> alef is a good letter to have at the beginning
01:16:57 <oerjan> shachaf: uncountably many, obviously
01:17:05 <shachaf> it indicates the glottal stop at the begining of oerjan's name
01:18:40 <shachaf> oerjan: is it an inaccessible cardinal
01:21:58 <HackEgo> [U+01C1 LATIN LETTER LATERAL CLICK]
01:22:18 <oerjan> hm which one is that again
01:22:31 <boily> the one where you cough your tongue against your teeth.
01:24:21 <oerjan> anyway, it's the one used for calling horses.
01:27:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:30:21 <oerjan> boily: you can separate sed commands in slwd with ; hth
01:30:52 <boily> I got to use slwd the way I want, unless you want me to sed -i again :þ
01:31:18 <oerjan> i'm just noticing you using two `slwd commands to fix up quotes
01:31:35 <boily> oh. that kind of separation. <_<;...
01:31:37 <oerjan> (also this is a sed feature, not sled)
01:31:55 <shachaf> oerjan is making slewd comments
01:34:05 <boily> slewd slewd slewd slewd slewd slewd ♪
01:38:43 <rdococ> You know what my favourite letter is?
01:42:51 * boily gives rdococ a maple muffin
01:44:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PARALEGAL CHICKEN).
01:50:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
01:51:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
01:55:01 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:01:32 <oerjan> . o O ( the internet is for þorn )
02:03:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:04:10 <rdococ> . o O ( þ is the letter thorn and was used for a "th" sound )
02:04:19 <rdococ> . o O ( in the past ofc )
02:04:59 <oerjan> . o O ( you seem to think i don't know this )
02:27:02 <\oren\> So I got a 116 in one Ggame boy color game and there's a weird pokemon game on it
02:27:06 <\oren\> I start with a blubasaur, a charmander, a squitle, a pichu, a vulpix and an igglybuff
02:28:51 <\oren\> well technically it's an 蛙種子
02:28:59 <\oren\> the game is in chinese
02:31:36 <\oren\> AAAAA why does the first gym have a level 30 Alakazam!??!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
02:34:25 <\oren\> ok I will look at this game more later
03:11:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:12:39 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:25:49 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: furozo).
03:47:41 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
04:11:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
04:32:53 -!- Akaibu has joined.
04:48:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51071&oldid=50115 * Elronnd * (+12)
04:55:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51072&oldid=51071 * Elronnd * (+284) Pointers.
05:32:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:39:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51073&oldid=51072 * Elronnd * (+0) fix type ("j-f"->"j-F")
05:43:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51074&oldid=51073 * Elronnd * (+0) Oops. It should have been j-f (0-4). I am sputid.
05:47:08 -!- Elronnd has joined.
05:47:37 <Elronnd> I'm writing an esolang (and also a vm for it), but I feel like I'm not writing the spec in such a way that it can easily be understood by others
06:11:38 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
06:12:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:17:33 -!- IronY has changed nick to Ir0nY.
06:49:15 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:05:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [).
07:10:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:11:54 -!- Sgeo has joined.
07:22:46 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:52:22 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
08:02:22 <HackEgo> U+0020 SPACE \ UTF-8: 20 UTF-16BE: 0020 Decimal:   \ \ Category: Zs (Separator, Space) \ Bidi: WS (Whitespace) \ \ U+1F157 NEGATIVE CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H \ UTF-8: f0 9f 85 97 UTF-16BE: d83cdd57 Decimal: 🅗 \ 🅗 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+1F154 NEGATIVE CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E
08:02:52 <\oren\> hooray, pikachu leveled up
08:06:12 <\oren\> and I have now confirmed that this 116 in 1 cartridge works great
08:22:32 -!- erkin has joined.
08:26:31 <\oren\> hide java threads, ignore java posts, do not reply to java coders
08:34:48 <\oren\> srsly why is it that so many total crap questions on stackoverflow involve java
08:40:44 <\oren\> especially people who turn their homework into a stackoverflow thread
08:40:48 <\oren\> Reading text file then converting UPPERCASE words to Uppercase “capitalize” the first character only and writing to text file
08:40:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
08:41:11 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:48:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:48:46 -!- erkin has joined.
09:03:15 <b_jonas> I might need your help, esochannel
09:13:58 -!- augur has joined.
09:18:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:24:14 -!- augur has joined.
09:28:33 <erkin> No we can't pay your bail money again
09:40:39 -!- Guest64021 has joined.
09:45:45 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
09:47:08 -!- Guest64021 has quit (K-Lined).
09:52:05 <b_jonas> erkin: good, because that's not what I'll need now
10:38:32 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
10:56:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
10:56:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
11:33:37 -!- LKoen has joined.
11:35:47 -!- boily has joined.
11:43:44 <HackEgo> gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet.
11:53:57 <Taneb> b_jonas, what is the issue
11:54:42 <Taneb> I say, suddenly realising I need to go get breakfast
11:55:19 <boily> shachaf: hellochaf. pooch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDAr48u3BB0
12:09:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:13:54 -!- erdic has joined.
12:31:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHORDATE CHICKEN).
12:37:48 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:39:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:42:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
12:45:07 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
12:56:07 <Taneb> ...I'm sitting in a lecture on a programming language I've used for years, delivered by one of the creators of that programming language
13:04:27 -!- izabera has joined.
13:11:01 <b_jonas> I thought it sort of evolved, then some committee gave it concrete syntax, then after that, the compiler writers add whatever extension they can without breaking consistency.
13:11:09 <b_jonas> That's why it has such a horrible syntax.
13:11:41 <Taneb> The first stage of that was about a dozen languages that weren't Haskell, I think
13:11:51 <Taneb> My lecturer was on the committee
13:12:18 <b_jonas> so a commitee member counts as a creator now?
13:13:15 <b_jonas> I don't think commitees work that way. They have a mind of their own that is much uglier than that of any of the people sitting in it.
13:13:22 <Taneb> He was one of the people who made these dozen languages into Haskell
13:13:50 <b_jonas> So when something is created by a committee, then usually no member of the commitee considers the resulting output as theirs.
13:14:08 <b_jonas> Taneb: oh, now that's better
13:14:39 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
13:14:41 <Taneb> I'd count that as a creator, personally
13:14:50 <Taneb> But I understand where you are coming from
13:15:23 <Taneb> ("a" creator, certainly not "the" creator)
13:36:23 <int-e> was Haskell created or discovered though ;)
13:40:52 <b_jonas> int-e: some of the semantics was discovered, but the horrible syntax was definitely invented.
13:41:15 -!- Deewiant has joined.
14:19:35 -!- Zarutian has joined.
14:35:18 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
14:41:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
14:59:47 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:24:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51075&oldid=42831 * Rottytooth * (+78) /* Commands */ corrected rule
15:40:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51076&oldid=51075 * Rottytooth * (+19) /* Language overview */
15:41:19 -!- zzo38 has joined.
15:42:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51077&oldid=51076 * Rottytooth * (+8) /* Commands */
15:44:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51078&oldid=51077 * Rottytooth * (-40) /* Commands */ Got rid of unsupported commands, added Input
15:51:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51079&oldid=51078 * Rottytooth * (+60) /* External resources */ Cleaned up links a bit -- new compiler to be posted soon
15:52:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Velato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51080&oldid=51079 * Rottytooth * (+0) moved See Also below External Resources
16:02:55 -!- erdic has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:05:08 -!- erdic has joined.
16:14:52 -!- erkin has joined.
16:18:44 -!- erdic has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
16:19:32 -!- erdic has joined.
16:31:33 -!- moony has joined.
16:31:41 <moony> You guys have heard of Factorio, right?
16:32:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:32:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
16:32:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:35:48 <erkin> That shit ruined my sleep cycle.
16:37:17 <moony> lol its doen the same to me, but for somewhat diffrent reasons. It's turing complete.
16:37:47 <moony> I've been looking into how i could build a working implentation of brainfuck with 500ish cells
16:44:20 <b_jonas> moony: one with a tape where an extension is automatically bulit if the pointer would run out of its end?
16:55:59 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:59:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51081&oldid=50489 * L3viathan * (-8) Golf'd
17:10:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dok * New user account
17:17:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
17:22:34 <oerjan> . o O ( the Second Cardinal Sin of Esolanging: claiming a language is Turing Complete when it doesn't even have unbounded memory )
17:23:01 * oerjan has no idea if moony is doing that, but it's what he thought of.
17:23:36 <olsner> "would be Turing Complete if extended with Turing Completeness"
17:24:04 -!- furozo has joined.
17:26:45 <moony> b_jonas, using recursive blueprints, but thats possible :)
17:27:06 <moony> so yea, i could make it build new memory if it had constant supply input
17:27:59 <moony> the game's map code supports boundless maps if i remember correctly, the only constrant is the phsyical computer's singlecore processing power and RAM
17:28:21 <moony> (factorio calculates all visible map each tick, thus, the larger the map, the moar lag)
17:29:06 <oerjan> ...of course some new neighbor had to get a noisy dog.
17:30:11 <moony> tho, there is ONE constrant... Factorio has bounds on numbers AND the amount of diffrent singals you can have, using a number to reference a location may be efficient, but it caps around 2 billion i think, but that shouldnt be much of an issue (the game would crash and burn before that much memory was ever built due to processing issues :p)
17:30:36 <oerjan> unless it's the same neighbors. bit hard to say.
17:31:17 <moony> so yea, Factorio is most likely turing complete, or better, as using a few mods, you can make something that extends itself
17:37:33 <\oren\> A border security memo calls for the use of a long-standing but obscure U.S. law to send some immigrants who have crossed the border illegally back to Mexico even if they are from other countries.
17:37:37 <\oren\> "Go back to Mexico!" "I'm from Saudia, I've never been to Mexico!" "I don't care!"
17:38:24 <moony> also, someone made a selfreplicating factory in factorio recently. it goes around mining ores and all of that just to build more of itself.
17:39:40 <\oren\> in kerbal space program (with the right mods) you could make a spaceship that travels from planet to planet and duplicates itself
17:41:25 <moony> yea, factorio also needs mods to make a self replicator
17:41:50 <moony> the guy who made Grey Goo mk1 used a customised version of logistics trains, and Recursive Blueprints, to pull it off
17:47:51 <\oren\> in KSP you would need kerbal extraplanetary lanchpads, and kOS
18:07:47 -!- [io] has joined.
18:07:47 -!- [io] has quit (Changing host).
18:07:47 -!- [io] has joined.
18:08:06 -!- iovoid has quit (Killed (orwell.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))).
18:08:06 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid.
18:17:45 <izabera> <agaffney> Docker works well if you can find a version that only has bugs that don't affect your use case
18:27:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51082&oldid=51051 * Dok * (+185) /* Introductions */
18:29:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51083 * Dok * (+3457) created Rain
18:31:03 -!- dok has joined.
18:32:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51084&oldid=51083 * Dok * (+0)
18:33:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51085&oldid=51084 * Dok * (+11)
18:34:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51086&oldid=51085 * Dok * (+14) /* Hello, world! */
18:36:17 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
18:41:33 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:44:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:09:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:23:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:26:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:29:18 -!- Ir0nY has changed nick to IronY.
19:42:30 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
19:44:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:59:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:13:45 -!- furozo has joined.
20:15:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:17:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:17:51 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to ikwilclubmate.
20:18:53 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
20:19:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51087&oldid=51086 * Dok * (+2053) Add concept and examples
20:21:44 <shachaf> ikwilclubmate: ben je nederlands? twh
20:24:59 -!- ikwilclubmate has changed nick to copumpkin.
20:26:49 <HackEgo> copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:31:30 <rdococ> has HackEgo's ego been hacked... or does he hack people's egos?
20:31:43 <rdococ> also, for the other kind of esoterica?
20:33:07 <fizzie> That would be magick and such.
20:37:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51088&oldid=51006 * Dok * (+11) Adds rain to R language list
20:40:29 <fizzie> Asternology is the art of predicting what happened in the past.
20:41:20 <shachaf> fizzie: http://i.imgur.com/ViHGGeg.png hth
20:43:51 <shachaf> fizzie: http://i.imgur.com/iRy6j43.png hth
20:47:12 <shachaf> Taneb: can you even name the first four presidents in order hth
20:47:52 <Taneb> Washington, Adams... then I'm lost
20:48:02 <fizzie> Is that Douglas Adams?!
20:48:28 <Taneb> ...Jefferson was pretty early, right?
20:49:09 <int-e> (cheating) says that Jefferson was third.
20:49:37 <Taneb> Yeah, I wouldn't have got the third
20:50:27 <int-e> And there are John Adams and John Quincy Adams.
20:50:41 <Taneb> int-e, father and son#
20:51:38 <Taneb> Adams Jr was sixth
20:52:00 <int-e> anyway being bad at history myself I would say one should not read too much into not being able the first four of just about anything.
20:52:10 <int-e> (and that includes presidents of the united states)
20:52:28 <int-e> (I have doubts about natural numbers and letters of the alphabet :P)
20:52:44 <Taneb> int-e, alpha, beta, gamma, delta
20:53:03 <int-e> aleph beth gimel ... oops.
20:53:32 <shachaf> Taneb: do you know the kings of england?
20:53:33 <int-e> fizzie: no, A comes after @
20:53:49 <shachaf> and can you quote the fights historical, from marathon to waterloo, in order categorical?
20:53:51 <fizzie> Yeah, in retrospect that went a bit wrong.
20:53:54 <Taneb> shachaf, again, I can do the first two
20:54:03 <Taneb> (assume dating from the Norman Conquest)
20:54:20 <Taneb> William the Conqueror, William Rufus
20:54:27 <Taneb> I think there was a Robert at some point early
20:54:40 <int-e> . o O ( The latest German monarch is Queen Merkel. )
20:55:55 <fizzie> There's a game where you have to fill the names of all the (~270) Tube stations on a map with just the lines (without the stops).
21:03:54 <Taneb> I can name maybe a dozen :/
21:04:13 <fizzie> I can't name much more than a dozen, and I live here.
21:04:27 <fizzie> (Mostly I just know the ones I go through.)
21:17:27 -!- augur has joined.
21:30:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:04:17 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:11:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:26:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:27:41 <DHeadshot> Question for a language I'm working on: What sort of thing should happen if you ADD a Boolean value to a String (Note that Concatenation is a different operation)?
22:29:03 <\oren\> they should both be converted to numbers
22:29:14 <\oren\> that's how Perl does it
22:29:35 <shachaf> The Boolean should be converted to a String and the String to a Boolean.
22:29:45 <shachaf> And then you should get a type error because you can't ADD a String value to a Boolean
22:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
22:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:30:23 <DHeadshot> The output will be a string, since strings in this language have precedence, but what actually happens...?
22:30:45 <\oren\> hwo do you define add for string + string?
22:30:56 <DHeadshot> \oren\: So Add the value of the string to a 1 and output the string?
22:31:23 <DHeadshot> I've done ORs and ANDs and now I'm doing ADD...
22:34:30 <DHeadshot> The OR of a String with a Number _does_ treat the String as a Number and OR the two, then write the result to a string, but the OR of a String and a Boolean treats whether the String is empty or not as a Boolean...
22:37:08 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
22:52:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:11:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainCurses]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51089&oldid=48968 * Ais523 * (-25) /* Implementation */ fix link syntax
23:11:47 <APic> BrainCurses, lol
23:15:04 <int-e> "None of these programs are currently tested, as there is no existing implementation yet."
23:15:16 <int-e> "An implementation in node.js, written by User:Conor O'Brien, can be found here."
23:20:12 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:20:12 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:21:16 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:31:57 -!- boily has joined.
23:32:55 <HackEgo> europe//Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo.
23:35:25 <rdococ> You could treat the string as an n-byte number and treat the boolean as the same?
23:48:32 <boily> APHic, rdochelloc.
23:49:05 -!- Zarutian has joined.
23:49:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:50:03 <boily> Zarutellon, hell⅜rjan.
23:50:47 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:51:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:52:33 <boily> Asternology: the study of one particular Arctic bird?
23:52:36 <oerjan> `learn Asternology is the art of predicting what happened in the past.
23:52:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'asternology': Asternology is the art of predicting what happened in the past.
23:53:04 <oerjan> that's fizzie's, really.
23:53:34 <boily> shouldn't it be fternoology?
23:53:48 <oerjan> no, astern is an adverb.
23:55:19 <lambdabot> There is no dictionary database 'astern'.
23:55:25 <lambdabot> *** "astern" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:55:26 <lambdabot> adv 1: stern foremost or backward; "the steamer went astern at
23:55:26 <lambdabot> 2: at or near or toward the stern of a ship or tail of an
23:56:08 <oerjan> pretty sure you broke the @more with the intervening commands hth
23:56:17 <lambdabot> *** "astern" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:56:17 <lambdabot> adv 1: stern foremost or backward; "the steamer went astern at
23:56:17 <lambdabot> 2: at or near or toward the stern of a ship or tail of an
23:56:21 <lambdabot> airplane; "stow the luggage aft"; "ships with square sails
23:56:23 <lambdabot> sail fairly efficiently with the wind abaft"; "the captain
23:56:25 <lambdabot> looked astern to see what the fuss was about" [syn: {aft},
23:56:27 <lambdabot> {abaft}, {astern}] [ant: {fore}, {forward}]
23:56:29 <lambdabot> 3: (of a ship or an airplane) behind; "we dropped her astern on
23:56:31 <lambdabot> the end of a seven-inch manilla, and she laid comfortably on
23:56:39 <shachaf> Because y'all're spamming the channel.
23:56:47 <boily> for once I shachagree.
23:56:54 <oerjan> . o O ( clearly lambdabot needs the @2 command )
23:58:40 <fizzie> I'd say the main problem is that @wn adds a lot of newlines.
23:58:51 <fizzie> The command-line 'wn' doesn't.
23:59:32 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wn: not found
23:59:36 <fizzie> Well, it adds a bunch of empty lines instead, but the main thing is that it produces each sense of the word on a single line: http://sprunge.us/iWcW
23:59:37 <oerjan> and the lines aren't even short enough, so wrap a single word or two in irssi
00:00:32 <fizzie> In addition to oerjan, my wife and many style guides.
00:00:56 <oerjan> ^ul ((0123456789)S:^):^
00:00:56 <fungot> 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 ...too much output!
00:01:12 <APic> http://zdf1112-lh.akamaihd.net/i/de12_v1@392882/master.m3u8 just for the Record, sorry ☺
00:01:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:06:02 <oerjan> looking at the log, clearly we should ask Ken M to name the _next_ four presidents in order.
00:10:37 <boily> You don't have permission to access "http://zdf1112-lh.akamaihd.net/i/de12_v1@392882/master.m3u8" on this server.
00:10:39 <boily> Reference #18.62fa7f60.1487808625.7cd07f8
00:11:44 <oerjan> it was just for the record, you weren't supposed to look at it hth
00:12:54 * oerjan cannot name the second king of Norway either.
00:13:55 <oerjan> hm apparently if was Erik Blodøks
00:20:08 <boily> fungot: you wouldn't happen to be spying on me, are you?
00:20:09 <fungot> boily: thanks. i really was joking about the implication. hence the text below the pic i draw today at labyrinth
00:31:10 -!- dok has left ("WeeChat 1.0.1").
00:31:12 * boily hates scrolls of acquirement.
00:31:23 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:31:29 <shachaf> scrolls of acquirement are tg
00:33:31 <boily> I always get an armor, and it gave me a +0 buckler. woohoo.
00:34:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
00:40:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:43:29 <fizzie> boily: At least it wasn't a negative zero.
00:44:10 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
00:44:31 <HackEgo> int-̈e int-̈e oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
00:44:42 <shachaf> int-e: did you play The Witness hth
00:45:00 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Thu Feb 23 01:44:58 2017
00:45:11 <shachaf> I don't remember whether int-e has Microsoft Windows.
00:46:56 <boily> int-e is near LOWI, so six hours from here, so that is about right.
00:47:12 <shachaf> What is int-e's body weigh?
00:49:57 <lambdabot> ENVA 222350Z 33015KT 9999 FEW030 SCT082 M01/M06 Q0980 RMK WIND 670FT 33023KT
00:50:08 <boily> sorry, I don't have int-e's body weigh on file.
00:50:29 <lambdabot> EGLL 230020Z AUTO 23015KT 9999 OVC008 11/10 Q1004 TEMPO BKN012
00:51:17 <boily> shachaf: also, I am wholly missing you. I can put you at KOAK with a 150~250 lbs range.
00:51:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 230000Z 09004KT 15SM FEW030 SCT150 BKN220 04/01 A2983 RMK SC1AC2CI2 SLP105
00:51:43 <shachaf> boily: i would prefer to remain unrecorded twh
00:52:21 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:57:31 <fizzie> boily: It was 17 this Monday.
00:58:05 <fizzie> I had lunch with some other Finns at work on the balcony.
00:58:59 <lambdabot> *** "fohn" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:58:59 <lambdabot> n 1: a warm dry wind that blows down the northern slopes of the
00:59:02 <fizzie> ^ I hear it's because of that.
00:59:14 <fizzie> Not sure about the details, but that was mentioned.
00:59:56 -!- krok_ has joined.
01:00:32 <oerjan> the famous british alps
01:00:47 * oerjan thinks that's cognate to no:fønvind
01:01:32 <fizzie> "Föhntuuli" in Finnish.
01:02:35 <oerjan> oh, seems to properly have an ö in german. might be a borrowing then.
01:03:35 <fizzie> "A weather phenomenon called the Foehn Effect is behind the unusually high temperatures set to deliver Britain's warmest February day in five years."
01:04:11 <fizzie> "However, it is all change from mid-week with another bout of cold, wet and windy weather ready to pounce."
01:06:19 <oerjan> from latin favonius, claims wikipedia.
01:07:00 <fizzie> They keep giving wind speeds in miles per hour here, and I can only grok them at all in metres per second, since that's the conventional unit in Finland.
01:07:10 <fizzie> Was there a conversion thing in one of the many bots?
01:08:03 <boily> right, I always forget fizzie dissociated.
01:08:08 <lambdabot> EFHK 230050Z 16012KT 1800 SN DRSN BKN004 00/M00 Q0970 TEMPO 1200
01:08:15 <boily> makes more sense now!
01:09:07 <HackEgo> * 21.01088 \ / 0.047594389
01:09:18 <fizzie> I can never really remember how to use that thing.
01:10:27 <fizzie> "SN DRSN" -- snow and then highly educated snow.
01:10:34 <HackEgo> 65659/3125 (exactly 21.01088)
01:10:48 <fizzie> That one I can't even remember the name of.
01:10:51 <boily> fizzie: snow drift hth.
01:11:13 <boily> (or drizzly snow? direct reference snow?)
01:11:23 <oerjan> frink also does basic calculations
01:11:41 <oerjan> (and possibly advanced ones, i think it's a PL)
01:12:40 <fizzie> "Some very strong winds are expected on Thursday in association with storm Doris with gusts of 60-70 mph likely, and 70-80 mph on coasts and hills."
01:12:46 <fizzie> I see they've given this one a name as well.
01:13:30 <oerjan> hm norwegian storms also have names, but i don't think they're the same names since they're often norwegian ones.
01:13:44 <fizzie> Apparently names are a new idea here.
01:13:50 <fizzie> Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_storm_naming_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_Ireland
01:13:59 <fizzie> In Finland they've had names longer as well, I think.
01:14:19 <oerjan> it's not that old in norway either.
01:15:09 <fizzie> I believe in Finland they're just named based on the name day calendar for the first day of the storm.
01:15:15 <fizzie> Here they're doing the alphabetical thing.
01:18:05 <fizzie> I think I remember hearing that for the "real storms" (Atlantic hurricanes and such) they recycle names except when it's a really impressive one, then they'll remove that name from further circulation.
01:19:21 <oerjan> yeah i remember that too
01:33:14 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:35:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:38:16 <HackEgo> logs//I think you might mean !logs
01:38:36 <boily> (which bot was ! again?)
01:41:10 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
01:41:21 <oerjan> in this case it's glogbot, though.
01:41:49 <oerjan> zemhill___ also uses !
01:42:48 <boily> not very responsive...
01:43:01 <oerjan> none of them ever responded to random commands, which is how they _could_ share the prefix in the first place.
01:43:15 <zemhill___> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
01:45:12 <fizzie> All those underscores. :/
01:56:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:11:48 <zzo38> A C program reading from stdin by read() is sometimes not reading the data. Do you know how to fix this?
02:13:42 <zzo38> Not reading the data; read() returns something other than the length of the data (I haven't yet checked what exactly).
02:14:18 <shachaf> Maybe you just need to call read() again?
02:14:58 <zzo38> I get 208000 bytes instead of the full 1254410 bytes.
02:15:16 <zzo38> And, yes, I suppose to call read() again will work. But why won't it read everything at once?
02:16:47 <zzo38> The stdin is from a Node.js program that is using the child_process module to pipe the data to it
02:16:57 <fizzie> "The value returned may be less than nbyte if the number of bytes left in the file is less than nbyte, if the read() request was interrupted by a signal, or if the file is a pipe or FIFO or special file and has fewer than nbyte bytes immediately available for reading."
02:17:20 <shachaf> It sounds like it's a pipe.
02:17:25 <zzo38> Yes I think it is a pipe
02:17:27 <shachaf> I'd expect it to be split up.
02:17:50 <zzo38> Will just repeating it until all bytes are read or it returns -1 to work?
02:17:58 <shachaf> More likely it'll return 0.
02:21:15 <zzo38> What should I have it do if the return value is zero?
02:26:34 <shachaf> Zero indicates end of file, according to read(2)
02:26:52 <shachaf> But did you know that you can keep reading from a pipe after you get 0?
02:31:41 <fizzie> If you're using curl -F 'something=<-' to read a form value from standard input, you have to type ^d twice, because curl will try to keep reading from the standard input once after getting a 0.
02:35:06 <fizzie> I'm not sure. I think I may have had a plausible explanation, but can't remember.
02:36:16 <fizzie> "cat - -" behaves in a similar way, though there the reasons are rather more obvious.
02:39:34 <shachaf> What happens if you put data in both stdins?
02:43:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NICKNAME CHICKEN).
02:44:09 -!- ChatSharp has joined.
02:44:48 <oerjan> shachaf: cat; rot13 does what i expected, anyway
02:46:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
02:46:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*ChatSharp@*.66.70.188.95.dsl.krasnet.ru.
02:46:57 -!- oerjan has kicked ChatSharp.
02:47:40 <fizzie> shachaf: If you meant curl, it will also concatenate. And it won't exit before you provide it two ^d's with no intervening data.
02:47:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
02:48:49 * oerjan hopes other people didn't get targeted
02:52:34 <shachaf> https://github.com/curl/curl/blob/master/lib/formdata.c#L1325
02:57:27 <Sgeo> So in Ada, 'Access seems to be the way to get a thing to pass around to a function, but is also dangerous?
02:57:33 * Sgeo should attempt to learn Ada
02:58:18 <Sgeo> Ada > Prismata, right shachaf?
02:58:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sacred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51090&oldid=51046 * DanielJohnBenton * (+248) Sacred interpreter
02:59:36 <shachaf> You've been obsessed with Ada for years.
02:59:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51091 * DanielJohnBenton * (+151) links
03:00:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51092&oldid=51091 * DanielJohnBenton * (+118) favourite esolang
03:15:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sacred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51093&oldid=51090 * DanielJohnBenton * (+1) fix "include" typo ("includes")
03:23:51 <shachaf> fizzie: OK, so if you type "abc\n^Ddef\n^D^D", fread returns 4, 4, and 0.
03:24:08 <shachaf> I guess that's expected behavior.
03:24:18 <shachaf> It should check feof() or something.
03:29:01 -!- Jafet has joined.
03:32:06 <shachaf> I've mentioned the bug in #curl
03:39:59 <zzo38> shachaf: OK, if I can keep reading from a pipe after zero, but then what? It does not explain so much, what should be done?
03:41:35 <zzo38> I intend to read until the full length is filled, or if there is an error or if the other end of the pipe is closed.
03:42:23 <shachaf> Then just stop reading when read() successfully returns 0.
03:43:14 <zzo38> Is that the only case that it will?
03:44:11 <shachaf> That's what my man page seems to say.
03:45:44 <zzo38> OK, then that should work. (It still indicates an error though, because the program does not expect to receive any different amount of data)
04:00:55 <\oren\> Radioactive wild boars have been detected in Czech forests
04:04:23 <oerjan> . o O ( are these alpha males? )
04:13:46 <shachaf> fizzie: https://github.com/curl/curl/issues/1281 hth
04:13:53 <shachaf> If I didn't dislike GitHub pull requests so much, I'd fix it. Maybe I should email a patch?
04:28:08 <Sgeo> shachaf, iirc you've repeatedly pushed me to look at Ada
04:29:57 <shachaf> Yes, that's what actually happened.
04:30:02 <shachaf> You were never very interested.
05:10:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:12:36 -!- significance has joined.
05:13:11 <significance> Hey all! Befunge noob here :) In the cat program ~:1+!#@_, how does the program ever end?
05:13:50 <significance> Wouldn't the ASCII value of the inputted character have to be -1, so that when you add 1 to it and negate it, it becomes 1?
05:13:54 <HackEgo> significance: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
05:14:49 <significance> shachaf: Would this be the right channel to ask my question?
05:15:11 <shachaf> It would be a pretty good choice.
05:16:13 <oerjan> probably -1 is exactly the value befunge uses for end of input.
05:16:20 <shachaf> "In the case of an end-of-file or other file error condition, the & and ~ both act like r."
05:16:36 <shachaf> In http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html at least.
05:17:38 <significance> shachaf: does r just multiply by negative one?
05:18:01 -!- kiki` has joined.
05:18:15 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:18:29 <shachaf> (Note: I don't know anything about Befunge.)
05:18:30 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:18:31 <oerjan> and now i remember that is indeed what befunge uses for errors
05:18:47 <significance> Wouldn't that send the control flow back to the comma?
05:18:51 <shachaf> oerjan: It seems pretty elegant, really.
05:20:46 <significance> And then it would go back to the underscore, but if the stack's empty, doesn't the underscore send the control flow to the right?
05:20:50 <oerjan> i don't know what all the commands do there, so...
05:21:14 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
05:21:21 <significance> no worries -- that sets me on the right track :)
05:23:20 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:24:28 <shachaf> http://www.quirkster.com/iano/js/befunge.html puts -1 on the stack at EOF
05:24:40 <shachaf> So I guess Befunge-93 does it differently from Funge-98
05:24:50 <shachaf> I told you you shouldn't listen to me.
05:25:14 <significance> I mean, I feel like I learned even more this way :)
05:28:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:39:08 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [).
06:01:57 <rdococ> Oerjan! Oerjan oerjan oerjan!
06:18:43 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:25:18 <rdococ> hppahppavillivillionon11
06:25:43 <rdococ> it's the source of all evil
06:36:11 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:36:36 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
06:36:41 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:54:04 <zzo38> Now I made up a mine sweeper game with JavaScript it is https://www.npmjs.com/package/shapemines
06:55:17 <zzo38> The included graphics are monochrome and are not the best quality, but they will do. You can provide better graphics if you can do it.
06:56:29 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:04:24 <zzo38> Do you have the feature suggestion and/or complaint?
07:08:48 <shachaf> Yes: It's written in JavaScript, but I don't seem to be able to run it in my browser.
07:09:20 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
07:10:07 <rdococ> Ridiculous platform, really.
07:10:23 <rdococ> If you want something not run in a web browser, don't use JS.
07:12:25 <zzo38> Screenshot http://zzo38computer.org/img_1C/mines.png
07:13:12 <zzo38> rdococ: If you don't like JavaScript you can use other program language, but I think JavaScript is a OK scripting language
07:16:34 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion1.
07:20:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
07:22:09 <zzo38> If you want to run this program on web browser then you would need to implement the SDLTERM API on top of the HTML API, and change the file I/O, and then it can work.
07:23:04 <zzo38> But, I am not going to change it for you.
07:24:33 <rdococ> My point is, JS was designed as a web scripting language and it should stay that way.
07:25:01 <rdococ> Even if it wasn't, I...just don't like it anyway. Blargh.
07:25:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:29:39 <zzo38> I meant as the reply to shachaf
07:29:56 <hppavilion1> rdococ: I'm not even a fan of JS in a browser, but it's the only option
07:31:34 <zzo38> No it isn't, in some cases you can just use HTML (it depend what you are making)
07:32:38 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Thu Feb 23 07:32:37 2017
07:34:34 <rdococ> Not necessarily, hppavilion1.
07:34:54 <rdococ> Okay, for some things, yes.
07:34:54 <rdococ> But you have other options for quite a few things.
07:35:06 <rdococ> Flash, PHP, some kind of Microsoft version of PHP,
07:35:34 <hppavilion1> rdococ: PHP isn't an option in the browser, Flash is a crime against humanity
07:35:58 <rdococ> Isn't PHP all about the server?
07:36:10 <zzo38> I don't like Flash or PHP so much (and the browser won't execute PHP code anyways)
07:36:52 <shachaf> It will if you compile it to JavaScript.
07:36:57 <zzo38> Still, I have written PHP codes too before (but don't do so much anymore); even IRC client I now use I had written in PHP.
07:37:13 <shachaf> Or if you run an x86 CPU emulator, and run Linux on it, and run PHP for that architecture.
07:37:14 <rdococ> We should construct a new programming language that should serve as an alternative to JS.
07:37:30 <zzo38> (If I was redoing it today I may to write in JavaScript instead)
07:38:07 <rdococ> what we need is something better
07:38:46 <zzo38> Yes there are a few problems, such as it doesn't have macros
07:41:07 <rdococ> I'm barely aware of what macros are tbh
07:44:54 -!- erkin has joined.
07:52:48 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:07:38 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:08:02 -!- erkin has joined.
08:15:33 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:16:00 -!- erkin has joined.
08:16:48 <zzo38> OpenGL will use normalized numbers for the colour of the pixel in textures, and I think this is what caused a problem I had with it because numbers such as 1/255 they don't store exactly in the floating point representation. (I worked around though, by adding .3 after multiplying by 255)
08:24:52 <rdococ> I had the idea of an esolang which used "yes" and "no" for "true" and "false"
08:26:05 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:28:07 <zzo38> See what you can make
08:34:57 -!- Jafet has joined.
08:45:37 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
08:47:13 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:47:40 -!- erkin has joined.
08:56:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:24:22 -!- augur has joined.
09:25:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:34:42 -!- augur has joined.
09:42:23 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:42:51 -!- erkin has joined.
09:44:50 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:45:06 -!- erkin has joined.
09:48:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:56:54 <b_jonas> rdococ: "yes" and "no" for true and false: don't some configuration files already support that?
10:59:46 <fizzie> Yes, that's definitely a thing.
11:00:28 <fizzie> I think some do 1, "true", "yes" and "on" vs. 0, "false", "no", "off".
11:01:06 <fizzie> SSH does "yes" and "no" only for many parameters.
11:19:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:20:12 -!- augur has joined.
11:20:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:21:22 <int-e> shachaf: I have a copy of The Witness, still unfinished.
11:21:33 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving).
11:22:38 <int-e> (I got it as part of the Humble Freedom bundle, so fairly recently; since there's basically just one puzzle type, so far I think it isn't worth the retail price.)
11:26:26 <int-e> Basically, for a game that tries to be like Myst, it fails in terms of atmosphere, story, and variety of puzzles. The graphics are far more beautiful of course.
11:29:13 <int-e> speaking of which, Obduction fares better in user score and worse in reviews than The Witness on metacritic, what am I supposed to make of that?
11:29:40 <int-e> oh well, I'll be waiting for a 50% off deal.
11:30:26 <fizzie> I was so on the verge of getting the freedom bundle.
11:34:06 -!- boily has joined.
11:37:50 <int-e> I'm thinking of it as a donation with free games, so there's nothing to regrett.
11:40:24 <int-e> The Swapper and Q.U.B.E. were quite enjoyable. The Stanley Parable is poison for obsessive people (perhaps I've missed an ending?)
11:44:37 <int-e> (I'm using walkthroughs as a cure for that particular disease.)
11:56:39 <b_jonas> You modern guys with your fancy games with multiple endings. Back in my days, you either saved the princess before GAME OVER or not, that's it. No variations.
12:01:05 <int-e> But that game has the best achievement I've seen in a game so far: "don't play $GAME for five years".
12:01:47 <int-e> (achievements, of course, are another kind of modern knick-knack that's poison for obsessive people)
12:02:34 <b_jonas> int-e: nice. does that require you to still have the same computer and files five years later?
12:03:39 <int-e> b_jonas: I *guess* you can get it by twiddling with the system clock.
12:04:38 <b_jonas> int-e: isn't that cheating and not very far from just hex-editing all the badges into the save file?
12:05:34 <b_jonas> I'm all for meaningless badges, sure, but still
12:05:51 <HackEgo> You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
12:24:42 <int-e> (You can *plant* potatoes. So if, for example, you want to control genetically modified food, then you end up with rules like that.)
12:27:08 <rdococ> What if you take the germinating parts of GMO potatoes?
12:31:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FULL CHICKEN).
12:36:44 <b_jonas> rdococ: yes, it's true. let me find the reference.
12:38:45 <b_jonas> rdococ: http://konzuliszolgalat.kormany.hu/europa-utazasi-tanacsok?norvegia says so, and it references http://www.toll.no/ where you can find http://www.toll.no/en/goods/food/regulations-for-meat-milk-cheese-and-other-foods/ which confirms the claim
12:46:05 -!- kiki` has joined.
12:52:55 <int-e> b_jonas: the whole game is enough of a parody that "what's the point" is close to being the whole point of the game.
12:53:45 <int-e> all the endings, for example, just bring you back to the start of the game.
12:56:40 <b_jonas> isn't that normal for games? you complete the game, save the princess, and get back to the start of the game because there's no more content. or maybe you get a newgame-plus that differs a little, but you're still basically at the start, in the bottom of the dungeon with your tiny starting inventory and (only 2 extra lives or as a level 1 character).
12:57:10 <b_jonas> In some sandbox games, you may continue playing after you win, but there's not much additional content anyway.
13:15:16 <Taneb> Is it possible to get a coach to Finland
13:22:36 <int-e> hmm, "coach" is ambiguous in a funny way
13:26:06 <Taneb> I mean, cheap land-based transport
13:27:23 <Taneb> (From the UK, ideally)
13:27:39 <Taneb> You'd have to go one way or the other round the Baltic, which may present difficulties
13:42:17 <b_jonas> Taneb: from here (Hungary), Finland is too far, so taking any combination of train and bus there is so ridiculously expensive that it's almost always less practical than going by airplane or car most of the way (you may have to use a bus or train leg together with the airplane of course)
13:42:53 <b_jonas> If you go by car, then you might need to take a ferry to cross the sea at some point.
14:31:46 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:44:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:48:47 -!- moony has joined.
15:00:46 <Taneb> b_jonas, from the UK
15:00:56 <Taneb> Domestically, coaches are often cheaper than plans
15:01:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: finland: not found
15:01:22 <HackEgo> Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
15:01:58 <moony> yea, im very tempted to try and make Brainfuck in factorio. i have an idea on how to get it done and everything
15:03:04 <moony> using 2 mods: Recursive Blueprints, and Creative Mode (creative mode for infinite supplys) to allow the 'tape' to be extended infinitely, thus proving turing completeness in one fell swoop
15:03:29 <b_jonas> moony: if you do, then write about this on the esowiki
15:04:47 <moony> also, factorio, with its immense extensibility and practically infinite world, can probably handle any other esolang in existance if you try hard enough using combinators (you get the following: + - / * > < = !=)
15:05:13 <moony> combinators themselves can be described as a esolang with a small amount of stretching :p
15:05:37 <Taneb> Hmm, does Vanilla Factorio have any genuinely renewable resources (beyond power)
15:06:04 <moony> Water, and thats it, Oil pools slowly lose efficiency until they eventually hit '0'
15:06:47 <moony> if you expand out far enough, you can always find MORE resources, but they are not infinite
15:07:12 <Taneb> Been a while since I've played
15:07:30 <moony> hence why i want the Creative Mpde mod if i try and make a infinite tape, because it has a special chest that can make infinite amounts of whatever item is in the first slot.
15:07:45 <moony> Taneb, It has much better multiplayer support (its no longer p2p multiplayer)
15:08:00 <moony> and it has a builtin server list, alongside a builtin mod list and mod browser
15:08:15 <Taneb> ...it definitely had servers back when I was playing it, because I was playing on a server, although it was a bit hacky
15:08:33 <moony> yea, its much less hacky in terms of multiplayer now
15:08:48 <moony> its centralised now, like any good game server
15:09:15 <moony> and 0.15 is going to have a change to the way that belts handle items to grant a huge FPS boost
15:09:44 <moony> (it now records what items are there and the distance between each one instead of their X and Y pos on the belt)
15:10:22 <moony> that halves the amount, and the distance rarely changes (only splitters, inserters, and other things that poke the belt's contents can chzange it)
15:10:48 <moony> s/amount/amount of memory used/
15:12:50 <moony> but yea, i've been tossing the concept of how brainfuck in factorio would work.
15:13:12 <moony> whats the smallest BF interp andwhats it's SRC?
15:14:21 <moony> if the SRC is in Assembly for some reason, thats better because ASM happens to be that much easier to translate to combinators
15:16:02 <moony> Taneb, you know any?
15:16:11 <Taneb> I don't, I'm afraid
15:16:35 <moony> it will be that bit harder if i have to figure this out from scratch, but eh :p
15:16:39 <Taneb> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations has a big list
15:17:42 <b_jonas> moony: I hear a lot of people play factorio, so you might find all sorts of practical hints about it on various places over the internet. you needn't figure out everything yourself
15:18:18 <moony> true, i know that :p
15:18:29 <moony> there is a 200p discord for it. (Which im in)
15:19:11 <b_jonas> 200p as in 200 people joined?
15:23:54 <moony> after this im going to try something diffrent.. maybe a assembly -> factorio compiler for the heck of it? :P
15:26:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
15:30:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
15:33:16 <moony> damn, i have been corrected, factorio has a hardcoded limit of 2 million x 2 million
15:33:53 <moony> tho, like everything else, a little modding can get around that :P
15:34:02 <moony> the real limit once you have modded away at it is the CPU
15:34:25 <moony> besides, no computer could handle a 2m x 2m factorio map. not even a supercomputer (game's singlethreaded)
15:35:21 <moony> i'll build a brainfuck interp and point out how close factorio it is to TC (thanks to the damn hardcoded map limit)
15:35:23 -!- LKoen has joined.
15:35:45 <moony> b_jonas, i need halp
15:35:56 <moony> i have been proven sorely wrong
15:36:44 <moony> like i said, factorio devs apparently hardcoded in a limit that no-one could reach, but still breaks TC, why'd they even bother? :P
15:37:24 <moony> no-one would ever reach that hardcoded limit, as the game only generates map as it needs to (when it enters the player's 'view')
15:38:57 <moony> and if they somehow did, the game would be at a fair bit less than one FPS
15:46:45 <Taneb> moony, I had an idea a while back for a Minsky machine in Minecraft
15:47:13 <Taneb> Using slime blocks and a series of flying machines, with the players riding some relevant ones
15:48:31 <b_jonas> moony: the limit is probably still useful to mitigate the effects of bugs that accidentally put very high coordinates to some data structure
15:48:39 <b_jonas> bugs in the game implementation that is
15:49:24 <moony> mods are written in lua, and are limited by the engine. (i know of no mods that add to the game directly)
15:50:42 <b_jonas> eh so? those mods could still have bugs if they ever handle coordinates.
15:52:29 -!- augur has joined.
15:52:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:52:53 -!- augur has joined.
15:54:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:06:20 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:07:09 -!- augur has joined.
16:23:44 -!- furozo has joined.
16:41:04 -!- rottytooth has joined.
16:41:47 <shachaf> int-e: How far into the game did you go?
16:42:36 <shachaf> I've been playing it and it's quite good in ways that aren't immediately obvious.
16:42:59 -!- augur_ has joined.
16:43:22 <int-e> I got one beam to the top of the mountain, and I visited the top of the mountain.
16:43:49 <int-e> so it feels like maybe 20% done
16:43:57 <shachaf> It's true that every puzzle involves drawing a line, more or less.
16:44:49 <int-e> yeah, I've encountered a few not-so-obvious twists
16:45:02 <int-e> and one very annoying one (garden mazes)
16:45:25 * int-e hates it when games require taking notes
16:45:25 <shachaf> Oh, you activated the castle laser?
16:45:37 <int-e> no, that's not the one I activated
16:46:11 <int-e> (well, not exactly hate... but I've grown accustomd to games that don't)
16:46:17 <shachaf> fizzie: did you notice your bug was fixed hth
16:46:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:47:03 <shachaf> You can press Print Screen to save a screenshot into the screenshot directory, by the way.
16:47:09 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:47:12 <fizzie> shachaf: Yeah, I think you've just caused me to accidentally close *so many* shells.
16:47:32 <fizzie> I've trained myself to automatically do the ^d^d when sprungeing stuff.
16:47:42 -!- augur has joined.
16:47:54 <fizzie> If curl starts obeying the first ^d, the second will go to bash.
16:48:23 <shachaf> There's no pleasing some people.
16:48:29 <int-e> the solution is obvious, start a new interactive bash for the curl command
16:50:21 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/1172/
16:53:28 <oerjan> . o O ( that xkcd is basically why i keep using IE... )
16:58:49 <rdococ> wait you still use IE?
16:58:54 <rdococ> I fear for oerjan's sanity.
17:00:45 <oerjan> my insanity has never been in question.
17:01:07 <oerjan> (ok, not in this decade)
17:01:53 <shachaf> Oh, there's a sha1 collision.
17:02:09 <oerjan> . o O ( how many casualties )
17:02:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:02:46 -!- erkin has joined.
17:03:13 <shachaf> fizzie: I was going to ask you if the rumors were legitimate but I guess they were.
17:04:45 <oerjan> <rdococ> Oerjan! Oerjan oerjan oerjan! <-- also, *someone* seems a little bit obsessed.
17:04:57 <rdococ> It's one of my greetings now.
17:05:02 -!- significance has joined.
17:05:13 <rdococ> oerjan, oerjan oerjan!
17:05:32 <shachaf> oerjan: you seem to think everyone is obsessed with you
17:06:35 <oerjan> shachaf: just because i'm paranoid etc.
17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:10:11 <oerjan> <rdococ> It's node.js, I think <-- . o O ( clearly nodeJS needs a browser backend )
17:10:40 <oerjan> it's hard to be consistent when you can only see half the line you're typing.
17:11:07 <oerjan> i guess this is one downside to 80 columns in irssi.
17:12:02 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:12:17 <oerjan> i guess e had nothing significant to say
17:13:56 <moony> . o 0 ( Time -> Factorio )
17:15:19 <fizzie> shachaf: Which rumours?
17:15:26 <oerjan> . o O ( hm can irssi support two rows for the input? )
17:15:59 <oerjan> or even better, resizing up to a limit
17:16:50 <oerjan> i guess that could be annoying when browsing history
17:17:24 <shachaf> fizzie: That Google would announce a thing today.
17:17:48 <oerjan> there seem to be no irssi options with "input" or "row" in them
17:17:58 <b_jonas> oerjan: you can try asking on #irssi
17:18:10 <oerjan> shachaf: wait, i thought you were still talking abou<rdococ> It's node.js, I think
17:18:22 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:18:37 -!- significance has joined.
17:18:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: no, sorry, on #irssi on IRCNet
17:18:57 <fizzie> shachaf: Oh, did we announce something today?
17:19:11 <b_jonas> announce what? moon base again?
17:19:23 <oerjan> shachaf: wait, i thought you were still talking about sha1
17:20:39 <fizzie> Oh, I didn't hear about that.
17:20:54 <int-e> oerjan: you're in luck, the feature has already been proposed on the bugtracker: http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=372 *veg*
17:21:23 <b_jonas> `learn d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a is the first checksum for which a collision in SHA-1 was found.
17:21:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'd00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a': d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a is the first checksum for which a collision in SHA-1 was found.
17:22:12 <shachaf> I don't think it's necessary as a wisdom entry.
17:22:20 <b_jonas> ``` rm -v wisdom/d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c*
17:22:23 <HackEgo> removed `wisdom/d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a'
17:22:25 <oerjan> int-e: that's not what i meant, anyway. i meant wrapping the line over more than one line when it's long.
17:22:28 <b_jonas> shachaf: yeah, it's stupid
17:22:42 <b_jonas> if they can find one collision, then they can find many other collisions too
17:22:50 <int-e> oerjan: I'm pretty sure that's what they mean
17:22:58 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:23:02 <b_jonas> there's nothing special about the first one
17:24:05 <oerjan> int-e: ok right, the comments seem to imply something else.
17:24:54 <b_jonas> wait, so are they announcing a moon base today or not?
17:25:13 <int-e> oerjan: true. I guess "multiline" prompt has two reasonable interpretations...
17:25:29 <int-e> oerjan: but given the history of that report I wouldn't worry about those semantics too much.
17:26:21 <oerjan> int-e: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
17:26:52 <b_jonas> a multiline prompt isn't so easy to implement, I think
17:28:21 <oerjan> b_jonas: clearly their moon base is where they did all the sha-1 brute forcing hth
17:29:09 <oerjan> . o O ( don't mind that growing spot you see on the moon, it's just computronium )
17:32:19 -!- rodgort` has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:32:32 -!- pixels has joined.
17:35:49 <shachaf> "Now, researchers have demonstrated a similar type of real-world attack against SHA1, which ironically was widely adopted after the insecurity of MD5 became well-known."
17:38:01 -!- significance has joined.
17:38:11 <pikhq> People started leaping to SHA-1 at about the time attacks on SHA-1 began to seem plausible.
17:39:19 <pikhq> Note that in *2008* CAs still used MD5.
17:42:50 <pikhq> Honestly, it's actually rather promising that some rather important things (the CA ecosystem) abandoned SHA-1 before this.
17:45:52 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
17:46:13 -!- fowl has left.
17:49:28 -!- rodgort has joined.
17:50:03 <oerjan> <int-e> b_jonas: I *guess* you can get it by twiddling with the system clock. <-- hm is there a system for digitally signed times...
17:51:23 <int-e> oerjan: that seems closely related to the time-locked messages discussion we had... last week, I guess?
17:51:33 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping exists
17:51:37 <int-e> it's easy if you have trusted parties
17:51:59 <oerjan> int-e: i don't remember that discussion...
17:52:31 <int-e> basically impossible without though you can get there to some extend based on computationally expensive tasks
17:53:02 <oerjan> well in this case i assume the game creator would decide who to trust...
17:53:55 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Thu Feb 23 18:53:51 2017
17:54:06 <oerjan> lambdabot: no no, i'm not to be trusted
17:54:09 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Thu Feb 23 18:54:07 2017
17:54:34 <int-e> oerjan: you came astonishingly close though
17:55:55 <oerjan> obviously too much latency
17:56:06 <int-e> Oh, instead of trusted parties you could shoot physical objects into space and wait until they return
17:57:21 <oerjan> . o O ( trusted parties don't like being shot into space, i think )
17:59:11 <int-e> Maybe blink a cryptographically signed message at Alpha Centauri b and wait for its reflection... there may be some implementation challenges to overcome first.
18:00:07 <int-e> But it should be good for a very secure 8.5 year delay.
18:00:57 <int-e> I'm of course inspired by https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/
18:00:57 <oerjan> it seems susceptible to a space-probe-in-the-middle attack
18:01:21 <int-e> oerjan: sure, but you'd have to be proactive to get it there :P
18:02:07 <oerjan> you depend on your adversary not being proactive? that's security by obscurity!
18:03:01 <int-e> I'm all for obscurity. Otherwise why would I be *here*?
18:04:18 <lambdabot> *** "obverse" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
18:04:18 <lambdabot> n 1: the more conspicuous of two alternatives or cases or sides;
18:04:18 <lambdabot> 2: the side of a coin or medal bearing the principal stamp or
18:14:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:14:46 -!- augur has joined.
18:16:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:18:45 -!- augur has joined.
18:33:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:03:57 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:20:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:35:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:39:32 -!- augur has joined.
19:41:25 -!- augur_ has joined.
19:42:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:45:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:51:48 -!- LKoen has joined.
19:53:15 -!- significance has joined.
19:58:18 <\oren\> Is it true that for every real number there's a series of rational nubmers that converges to it?
19:58:34 <\oren\> I seem to recall that being true
20:00:29 <fizzie> Those are some crazy ass-winds.
20:01:47 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: reboot?).
20:01:49 <fizzie> "Storm Doris: Live updates as 100mph winds cause travel disruption across the country"
20:01:56 <fizzie> Somewhere around here.
20:02:05 <fizzie> I don't think it's so bad right here in London.
20:03:20 <\oren\> around here it's ridiculously warm for a february day
20:03:38 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:03:41 <fizzie> We had one of those on Monday.
20:04:17 -!- int-e has joined.
20:04:24 <\oren\> the Cythereforming of Earth continues
20:07:03 -!- lambdabot has joined.
20:07:21 <\oren\> unfortunately that doesn't seem to be a real word
20:08:06 <erkin> It's a nonce word now.
20:10:02 <\oren\> it SHOULD mean "changing the climate of a planet to more resemble Venus"
20:11:42 <\oren\> cythera- being the scientific prefix for Venus (because Venerean is too close to Venereal and Aphrodisial is too close to Aphrodisiac)
20:12:54 <\oren\> so for example to go to Venus you perform a "Trans-Cytherean Ejection"
20:13:15 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
20:19:29 -!- significance has joined.
20:25:46 -!- pixels has quit (Quit: Segmentation fault).
20:27:07 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:41:54 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:43:47 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
20:45:14 <shachaf> fizzie: Do you use -F 'field=<-' that often?
20:46:17 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:01:59 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
21:18:16 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:32:50 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
21:32:56 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
21:34:56 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left.
21:37:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
21:56:16 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
21:58:10 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left.
22:03:40 -!- krok_ has joined.
22:06:26 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm guessing about once a week, maybe a little bit more.
22:06:46 <fizzie> shachaf: It's the canonical solution here: http://sprunge.us/
22:07:15 <shachaf> you should make sprunge.us accept grpc hth
22:07:22 <fizzie> It works fine for pasting the output of a command, but I often copy-paste to get "$ command line" part in as well.
22:08:00 <fizzie> I might be okay by doing a "sprunge-it foo bar baz" wrapper that'd do (echo '$ foo bar baz'; foo bar baz) | sprunge.
22:08:07 <fizzie> Except then I'd need to remember to use that.
22:08:34 <shachaf> It also wouldn't use your non-exported variables and other shell things.
22:09:35 <shachaf> You didn't like CapnProto because it made you feel bad for protobuf, right?
22:09:54 <fizzie> (A very non-rational reason.)
22:10:27 <shachaf> Do you like how it stores things xored against the default value so that zeros always correspond to the default value?
22:10:58 <fizzie> I'm not sure I care about non-zero default values sufficiently much to feel too excited about that.
22:11:36 <fizzie> I think proto3 removed non-zero default values entirely, right?
22:11:49 <fizzie> At least https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/proto3#default sounds like that.
22:12:23 <shachaf> fizzie: Maybe you can feel better knowing that sandstorm.io went out of business.
22:13:22 <fizzie> No, I think now I just feel bad for them.
22:14:01 <fizzie> Does the etymology of sandstorm.io have anything to do with Darude's Sandstorm?
22:16:31 <shachaf> Darude is a famous Finnish musician, I suppose.
22:17:58 <shachaf> The other day in our confidential communication you said something like "like this, just like that".
22:20:35 <fizzie> Plausible. I don't remember what I may or may not have said.
22:24:48 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:41:58 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:43:36 <zzo38> The normal mine sweeper game with a uniform square grid with king's adjacency, but I also made up other modes too, such as: knight's adjacency, board wrapping, grid with holes in it, grid with some cells are bigger than the other one, game that orthogonal adjacencies count double, etc.
22:44:04 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
22:44:36 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
22:46:06 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left.
22:49:35 -!- augur has joined.
22:51:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:54:05 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:56:38 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined.
23:02:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:12:20 -!- significance has joined.
23:16:35 <Taneb> What about grids that are the surface of a Klein bottle
23:16:51 <Taneb> Or in hyperbolic space
23:17:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:17:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:20:38 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:20:39 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:21:11 -!- tromp has joined.
23:22:26 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:22:30 -!- significance has joined.
23:26:22 <Taneb> They might be fun to sweep mines in
23:27:57 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:29:11 -!- significance has joined.
23:36:08 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
23:39:48 <zzo38> OK can you explain how to do that?
23:43:53 -!- significance has joined.
23:52:08 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:08:16 -!- rottytooth has quit.
00:16:20 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
00:21:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
00:26:00 -!- hi has joined.
00:26:23 -!- hi has changed nick to Guest66977.
00:30:59 <rdococ> what? that's hyperbolic!
00:36:18 -!- significance has joined.
00:38:37 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:00:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:17:28 -!- oerjan has joined.
01:28:46 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ <\oren\> cytheraforming? <-- cythereaforming, i think.
01:32:23 <HackEgo> bin/` \ bin/̊ \ bin/! \ bin/? \ bin/¿ \ bin/' \ bin/" \ bin/( \ bin/@ \ bin/* \ bin/؟ \ bin/ \ bin/ \ bin/1 \ bin/2 \ bin/5 \ bin/f \ bin/h \ bin/n \ bin/w
01:33:43 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -n 1; fi
01:34:08 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Oct 28 18:37 bin/' -> quote
01:34:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ rm canary; eval -- "$1" | rnoooodl
01:34:39 <DHeadshot> This function is now 3837 lines long and still growing...
01:34:55 <HackEgo> 9332:2016-10-18 <shachäf> ` chmod +x bin/\\( \ 9331:2016-10-18 <shachäf> ` sed \'s#eval#rm canary; eval#\' bin/\\` > bin/\'(\'
01:35:19 <HackEgo> 9331:2016-10-18 <shachäf> ` sed \'s#eval#rm canary; eval#\' bin/\\` > bin/\'(\' \ 9332:2016-10-18 <shachäf> ` chmod +x bin/\\(
01:36:15 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }
01:36:33 -!- krok_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:36:46 <HackEgo> 4286:2014-01-14 <oerjän> revert \ 4285:2014-01-14 <oerjän> sed -i \'2s!s/!s/no\\+dl/nooodl/;s/!\' bin/? \ 1082:2012-12-14 <ellioẗt> mv ibin/"@" bin \ 1075:2012-12-14 <Gregör> mkdir ibin; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep \'\\. lib/interp\' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf \'#!/bin/sh\\nCMD=`cut -d\' \' -f1 "$1"`\\nARG=`cut -d\' \' -f
01:38:25 * oerjan had forgot what `@ did
01:38:42 <HackEgo> echo $(ls bin | shuf -n 1) $*
01:40:40 <fizzie> I think bin/* would be more brave without the echo.
01:41:02 <HackEgo> 1c1 \ < ? "$@" | rev | tac \ --- \ > ? "$@" | rev
01:41:39 <oerjan> grep '' diff bin/{¿,؟}
01:41:44 <oerjan> `` grep '' diff bin/{¿,؟}
01:41:45 <HackEgo> grep: diff: No such file or directory \ bin/¿:? "$@" | rev | tac \ bin/؟:? "$@" | rev
01:42:42 <HackEgo> .ssentaerg ot xiferp eht si `
01:42:54 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:43:41 <oerjan> i'm not sure the tac is ever useful
01:43:52 <fizzie> There are very few multiline wisdoms, I guess.
01:44:11 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression
01:45:12 <HackEgo> bin/¿//\? "$@" | rev | tac
01:45:32 <oerjan> so it won't break if there's a single char file in /hackenv
01:48:16 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
01:48:28 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^``//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \
01:50:40 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^``//' <<<'`test'
01:50:45 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^``//' <<<'``test'
01:51:00 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^`(`|$)//' <<<'`test'
01:51:13 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^`(`\|$)//' <<<'`test'
01:51:39 -!- adu has joined.
01:52:09 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^`(`|$)//' <<<'``test'
01:52:21 <oerjan> `` sed 's/^`(`\|$)//' <<<'``test'
01:52:36 <oerjan> `` sed -e 's/^`(`|$)//' <<<'``test'
01:52:43 <oerjan> `` sed -e 's/^`(`\|$)//' <<<'``test'
01:53:42 <fizzie> (Aren't POSIX BREs fun?)
01:54:20 <oerjan> i was just looking up that.
01:54:32 <oerjan> `` sed -e 's/^`\(`\|$\)//' <<<'``test'
01:54:40 <oerjan> `` sed -e 's/^`\(`\|$\)//' <<<'`'
01:54:43 <oerjan> `` sed -e 's/^`\(`\|$\)//' <<<'``'
01:55:31 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//3s,``,`\\(`\\|$\\),
01:55:33 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$t
01:55:38 * DHeadshot didn't know you couldn't AND or OR a double in C and will now have to rewrite whole swathes of this program...
01:56:58 <HackEgo> Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons.
01:57:20 <HackEgo> [U+0062 LATIN SMALL LETTER B] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+002F SOLIDUS]
01:57:47 <oerjan> it's probably ^O, which i can't copy in irssi
01:58:12 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi
01:59:02 <fizzie> `` ls bin/? | sed -e 's,bin/,,' | tr -d '\n' | hd
01:59:03 <HackEgo> 000000 60 21 3f c2 bf 27 22 28 40 2a d8 9f 0f 16 31 32 >`!?..'"(@*....12< \ 000010 35 66 68 6e 77 >5fhnw< \ 000015
01:59:22 <oerjan> you probably want the \?
01:59:40 <fizzie> I was just curious as to what all one-character ones we have.
02:00:09 <oerjan> that's why i started this
02:00:10 <fizzie> `` ls bin/? | sed -e 's,bin/,,' | tr -d '\n' # and this gave some control characters
02:00:39 <HackEgo> #!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
02:01:17 <oerjan> that's the last one i don't know, now what is it doing...
02:01:28 <fizzie> I think I remember that one.
02:01:33 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: <http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/>. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.)
02:01:52 <HackEgo> cat: bin/wehlcome: No such file or directory
02:04:33 <fizzie> Here on #ehsohtehrihc, we pride ourselves on mohduhlahrihty.
02:04:51 <oerjan> noht to mehntiohn hihlahrihty.
02:04:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:05:01 <fizzie> I wasn't going to mention it.
02:10:49 <HackEgo> hyperbolic geometry//Hyperbolic Geometry is geometry that is exaggerated to the point of absurdity.
02:11:07 <HackEgo> hyperbolic geometry//Hyperbolic Geometry is geometry that is exaggerated to the point of absurdity.
02:11:34 <HackEgo> hyperbolic geometry:Hyperbolic Geometry is geometry that is exaggerated to the point of absurdity. \ hyperbolic group:Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:46:22 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:54:09 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:55:56 -!- significance has joined.
03:00:24 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
03:09:47 <zzo38> Is "theologian" reserved for Christians? I think I read somewhere that it is but I don't know?
03:14:06 -!- Jafet has joined.
03:39:43 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:47:42 -!- Guest66977 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
03:53:27 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:53:57 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
03:56:30 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:57:05 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
04:01:35 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:49:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:01:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:01:55 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:05:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:22:23 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to ELRONND.
05:24:33 -!- ELRONND has changed nick to GENIUS.
05:24:49 -!- GENIUS has changed nick to Genius.
05:25:05 -!- Genius has changed nick to GENIUS.
05:27:48 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
05:32:05 -!- GENIUS has changed nick to Elronnd.
05:55:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:59:54 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/4BgbpF.jpg
06:06:16 -!- significance has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5).
06:21:32 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:37:22 <rdococ> I hope that isn't windows.
06:41:53 <pikhq> I'm suspecting WINE.
06:56:16 <rdococ> and I hope it's not WINE running on a similar system for Windows users.
07:12:08 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:37:39 <rdococ> I am bored and will now kaeps sdrawkcab.
07:38:06 <rdococ> forward speak backward speak
07:53:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:56:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:04:50 -!- heroux has joined.
09:05:53 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:10:35 -!- erkin has joined.
09:21:49 -!- augur has joined.
09:33:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:44:31 <\oren\> rdococ: NOREPRO, looks forward to me
09:45:05 <\oren\> so there is a bug in irssi, tmux or mintty causing non-reversing
10:55:37 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
10:58:53 -!- LKoen has joined.
11:17:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
11:17:40 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
11:25:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
11:32:30 -!- heroux has joined.
11:33:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:34:31 -!- kiki` has joined.
11:50:18 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined.
11:54:42 <int-e> shachaf: I have to admit that The Witness is becoming more interesting. I've found the cinema, for example.
12:02:20 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
12:48:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:47:58 <HackEgo> 991) <Bike> man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" <kmc> Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun <Bike> please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark
13:48:19 <HackEgo> 246) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) <nyuszika7h> Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O <Gregor> A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS.
13:48:34 <HackEgo> 859) <kmc> yes Windows 98 installer, please perform a bad blocks scan of your virtual emulated hard drive <kmc> you have no idea how completely i control your so-called reality
13:48:47 <HackEgo> 382) <fizzie> elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
14:01:33 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Quit: Leaving).
14:10:34 -!- `^_^v has joined.
14:39:12 <rdococ> \oren\, some clients don't see the reversing character, I guess.
14:48:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Smidderwibh * New user account
14:58:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51094&oldid=51082 * Smidderwibh * (+243)
15:00:01 <rdococ> 4Warning. New account created. Please prepare for brainfuck derivatives.
15:00:08 <rdococ> Warning. New account created. Please prepare for brainfuck derivatives.
15:00:16 <rdococ> got the colour wrong :p
15:10:34 <fizzie> Assume the brainfuck derivative acceptance position.
15:12:47 -!- atorello has joined.
15:17:23 <rdococ> Warning. Another new person detected. Please prepare for more brainfuck derivatives.
15:17:40 * erkin jumps in the bunker
15:17:42 <fizzie> rdococ: You know, we've got a more friendly welcome as well.
15:17:57 <HackEgo> atorello: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
15:18:16 <rdococ> fizzie, but the more friendly welcome isn't truthful or honest.
15:18:57 <atorello> what is an esoteric programing langs?
15:19:13 <rdococ> well, first of all, do you know what a normal programming language is?
15:20:21 <fizzie> "An esoteric programming language, or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use."
15:21:31 <fizzie> Doesn't normally count.
15:22:12 <fizzie> A lot of very practical things are done in (dialects of) Lisp.
15:23:06 <fizzie> Emacs Lisp, for example, is very much designed for practical use.
15:23:16 <fizzie> Maybe not designed well for that, but at least that's the intention.
15:23:42 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
15:23:50 <fizzie> ^ That's a reasonable example of what would count.
15:26:34 <Jafet> the quality of lisp dialects seem to be inversely proportional to their importance
15:26:53 <Jafet> you have on one hand emacs lisp, second in importance only to autocad lisp
15:27:15 <Jafet> then there is scheme, which nobody uses
15:28:46 <atorello> nice to meet u guys back to readable and enjoyable code
15:29:03 -!- atorello has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)).
15:38:40 <FireFly> what, befunge-98 is perfectly readable
15:40:43 <b_jonas> it's still not a property of just the language
15:54:22 <fizzie> Wait, they were using ERC to *be* here, and argued Lisp doesn't have practical uses?
15:56:56 <b_jonas> no, they probably just didn't understand the definition of an esoteric language. but yeah, it's funny.
16:33:09 -!- moony has joined.
16:43:17 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:43:27 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:05:08 -!- Akaibu has joined.
17:16:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:40:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:40:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
17:40:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:48:44 <shachaf> int-e: The cinema of all things was the thing you found interesting?
17:53:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:55:41 * oerjan swats rdococ for turning the logs backwards -----###
17:56:07 <rdococ> Your whole chat log turned backward? :P
17:57:09 <oerjan> no, the just the part of the tunes logs after it
17:58:19 <rdococ> still amazing damage heh
17:58:36 <oerjan> oh wait, there's some today too
17:59:32 * oerjan had the command to fix it in vim history from last time
17:59:48 <rdococ> you'll have to do it again now :P
18:00:25 <rdococ> you'll have to do it again now :P
18:02:04 <oerjan> not until the next time i look at the logs. it's the _tunes.org_ logs, not my client.
18:03:00 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:03:27 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:04:07 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:04:14 <oerjan> in my client i cannot even see it, it seems.
18:05:12 <oerjan> <\oren\> so there is a bug in irssi, tmux or mintty causing non-reversing <-- hm i have two of those.
18:05:30 <oerjan> (putty instead of the last one)
18:07:10 <oerjan> but i distinctly recall seeing things reversed in irssi _before_... must be new.
18:07:43 <oerjan> (in fact, it used to reverse the timestamp too)
18:11:24 <int-e> shachaf: I was complaining about the lack of atmosphere and story between the puzzles... there still isn't much of a story but it lends a bit of flair.
18:11:45 <oerjan> hm last wiki user is a smart one - he _didn't_ get caught in the filter before completing the introduction.
18:12:38 <oerjan> . o O ( if it were a space game the lack of atmosphere could be a feature )
18:13:13 <shachaf> int-e: Which beam did you get?
18:13:21 <shachaf> Are you using Microsoft Windows to run it?
18:13:47 <shachaf> can you stop it rdococ twh
18:13:57 <oerjan> also an impatient one, somehow.
18:14:07 <int-e> desert excavation, the stone island to the left of that, castle, swamp, and some harbor, I think.
18:14:18 -!- augur has joined.
18:14:25 <int-e> ("left" is when looking from the mountain)
18:14:26 <rdococ> "ew new people" oh come on, that brainfuck derivative thing was a joke
18:14:35 <rdococ> and "ew windows" is COMPLETELY justified
18:14:48 <rdococ> I won't try to be comedic anymore
18:15:18 <int-e> shachaf: and yes I'm using Windows though I half expect that wine would do the trick... wine tends to have trouble with old games, not recent ones.
18:15:21 <shachaf> desert = sun, stone island = symmetry, castle = hedges, swamp = n-tris, right?
18:16:36 <shachaf> winehq lists it as "bronze"
18:18:07 <oerjan> . o O ( how many game developers test in wine - or even _develop_ in wine... )
18:19:05 <int-e> 4,5,14,15,17 on https://assets.vg247.com/current/2016/01/the_witness_walkthrough_map_guide.jpg
18:19:40 <oerjan> int-e: grandma just keeps getting better
18:20:35 <int-e> swamp area, I think
18:20:47 <int-e> maybe I'm misattributing the number
18:21:22 <shachaf> I didn't travel by boat enough to make good use of the map.
18:21:32 <shachaf> I probably should travel by boat more.
18:22:02 <shachaf> You're doing everything in a very different order.
18:23:37 <int-e> well it is free exploration
18:25:33 <shachaf> What is your solved number?
18:25:40 <shachaf> It shows it in the load screen.
18:26:09 <int-e> I don't know. I'm not ad home and I'd have to boot into Windows if I were.
18:27:38 <int-e> clearly this calls for an "ad" blocker.
18:28:51 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:29:53 <int-e> Aside, if winehq says "bronze" then that reduces my optimism to "could be worth a shot".
18:32:05 <ais523> winehq "bronze" pretty much means "someone figured out how to get it working, once"
18:32:40 <shachaf> One person says "There seem to be a number of unimplemented dx11 features causing very dark and buggy graphics."
18:32:58 <shachaf> Another says "Game only works on some graphic Adapters (Not on Intel HD4600 with Mesa 17.0.0)"
18:34:38 <int-e> that's fine, I have some graphics card? . o O ( logic is hard )
18:40:46 <ais523> btw, in esolang news, we were working on a new esolang over at PPCG, which some people might find interesting; it's JavaScript ES6, but the only characters that can appear in the source code are []+=`
18:41:03 <ais523> this is Turing-complete, but not as far as we know IO-complete
18:41:31 <ais523> (there's an IO-complete subset []()+! that has been known for ages, called JSFuck; going down from 6 to 5 is a fairly notable improvement)
18:42:05 <oerjan> not being IO-complete, i assume you cannot encode arbitrary function calls in it, then...
18:42:31 <ais523> indeed; at least we haven't found a way
18:42:44 <moony> but in es6 ` is a string designation, so it does have strings
18:42:58 <ais523> and can manipulate them
18:44:15 <moony> (``=``) == 1 so it can do math as well (+ symbol) and using overflow it can do subtration
18:44:35 <ais523> moony: `` provides string /arguments/ to a function
18:44:41 <ais523> you can't construct string values from it
18:44:50 <ais523> however it is fairly easy to construct strings with this character set
18:44:53 <ais523> []+[] is the null string
18:45:19 <moony> []==[] == 1 so math :p
18:45:59 <ais523> which is a boolean (not an integer), and false (not true)
18:46:23 <oerjan> . o O ( is "The #esoteric IRC channel on freenode is currently the most active esoteric programming forum." even accurate any more? )
18:46:28 <moony> how could you make the value '1'....
18:47:05 <ais523> oerjan: PPCG are our only real competitors
18:47:09 <ais523> and they only use esolangs sometimes
18:47:24 <shachaf> i,i sometimes is more than #esoteric
18:47:36 <ais523> and many of the non-mainstream programming languages they use are golflangs, which I'd say are a) ontopic for esolangs.org, but b) possibly not actually esolangs
18:48:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:48:31 <fizzie> I think golfing in general (even with mainstream languages) would be close-enough on-topic for #esoteric as well.
18:49:09 <ais523> if you golf a language down far enough, it /becomes/ an esolang ;-)
18:49:41 <fizzie> int-e: Speaking of winehq ratings, I recently looked this one up, and it wasn't very inspiring: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=8626
18:50:26 <oerjan> looking at moony's attempt, can you at least fake () for precedence purposes?
18:51:24 * oerjan doesn't know javascript syntax
18:51:25 <moony> yea, () is kinda needed
18:51:36 <moony> without it you cant scope, and thus cant keep values
18:52:08 <ais523> oerjan: you can get a precedence grouping using an array constructor and immediately taking the only element
18:52:28 <oerjan> right, as i expected (just didn't know how)
18:52:48 <ais523> square brackets are probably the most versatile characters in JavaScript
18:52:49 <moony> [``] is a valid constructor in this case, so it will probably end up as the generic one
18:53:37 <oerjan> moony: are you saying [`string`][+[]] is a way to get a string?
18:54:00 <moony> yea, but you can use `` too
18:54:05 <ais523> you get strings by stringifying random things by adding [] to them
18:54:24 <oerjan> moony: i thought ais523 had just said you cannot get strings with just ``
18:54:27 <ais523> "undefined" is the easiest nontrivial string to define
18:54:32 <zzo38> If the []+=` subset is not IO-complete then you can make up a I/O layer that is compatible with it perhaps.
18:54:37 <ais523> then you can slice it to get at the individual letters
18:54:39 <moony> oerjan, im pretty sure you can
18:55:04 <moony> oerjan, i've been feeding this stuff into the node.js repl with the harmony flag on, `` == ''
18:55:50 <ais523> that's not a construction we used
18:55:57 <ais523> I'll point it out to PPCG, though
18:56:29 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
18:57:06 <zzo38> Yes that works. You can use ` to make multi-lines string with JavaScript codes inside of ${} (but not with this subset) and can also allow to make function calls without needing () it look like too
18:57:38 <moony> zzo38, oh, function calls without ()? example please? :p
18:59:03 <zzo38> It seems only with ` it is possible, such as (x=>x)`m32 3 akk` makes an array with that string.
18:59:09 <zzo38> (as the only array element)
18:59:30 <ais523> right, this is a necessary step in creating nontrivial loops
18:59:49 <oerjan> <ais523> that's not a construction we used <-- sounds like you might get IO-complete soon, if you find things like that
19:00:11 <ais523> it doesn't let us do anything we couldn't already do, but it's substantially fewer characters, which PPCG users tend to care about
19:00:51 <oerjan> ais523: is the problem with calling functions rather than with constructing strings, then?
19:01:13 <moony> is there a way to turn 0 into some other number using this limited character set? we can already use +[] to make zero
19:01:56 <ais523> oerjan: constructing strings is one problem, but we've managed to get most of ASCII by now
19:01:57 <ais523> + = [ ] are all ASCII characters that we already knew how to produce
19:01:57 <ais523> so string literals containing only those characters aren't so helpful
19:02:02 <iovoid> You can use ~0 to get -1 AFAIK
19:02:16 <zzo38> But something like (x=>x)`a${6*7}u` instead produces ['a','u'] even though `a${6*7}u` by itself makes 'a42u' why is that?
19:02:28 <moony> iovoid, but we dont have ~ as a character we can use
19:02:32 <ais523> in terms of lowercase letters, we're currently only missing hkpqxz
19:02:48 <iovoid> moony, what characters you can use
19:04:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:04:23 <zzo38> O, I found the document it explains why (x=>x)`a${6*7}u` is doing like that.
19:04:53 <ais523> oh, I didn't get to answer the other half of oerjan's question, but I know he logreads so
19:05:06 <moony> im assuming we cannot use spaces?
19:05:08 <ais523> we can /call/ functions, we just can't give them arguments
19:05:13 <ais523> moony: no, although I don't see why you'd need them
19:06:06 <moony> tho [+[]][+[]] works
19:06:23 <ais523> but why would you stringify a 0 anyway?
19:06:34 <ais523> you can append it to strings even in its numerical form
19:06:36 <moony> *shrug* maybe you can do something with it
19:07:47 <moony> [+[]][+[]] gives me a idea for scoping.
19:09:01 <iovoid> moony, +[+[]==+[]][+[]]
19:09:26 <moony> is the contents of [ ] calculated beforehand and given priority, like ()?
19:10:22 <moony> and now i can make any other number.
19:10:50 <moony> and, by performing a operaton twice, i can slowly but steadily double everything
19:11:07 <moony> and overflow for negatives
19:15:18 <moony> the calculation for 128 doesnt even fit on my screen :p
19:17:38 <iovoid> How you expect to get a character
19:17:40 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
19:17:57 <moony> *shrug* i just wanted numbers
19:18:25 <moony> but now im going to build a script that automagically spits out the code needed to overflow the max int in JS
19:18:45 <moony> which will probably be several MB large
19:19:07 <iovoid> You would just get Infinity
19:19:34 <moony> im thinking of how we could get negative numbes
19:19:53 <iovoid> you need like 1e+305*17 bytes
19:20:21 <iovoid> moony, I dont think you can without bitwise operators like ~
19:20:48 <moony> iovoid, NOPE. i dont have that many GB. kthx
19:21:46 <ais523> negative numbers aren't even useful, but if you can get hyphen (I think you can, not sure on that), you can just prepend a minus sign to a number via string concatenation
19:21:47 <iovoid> Not even all the disk space in the world would be enought AFAIK
19:24:49 <moony> iovoid, i was doing the calculation like this: [[+[+[]==+[]][+[]][+[]]+[+[+[]==+[]][+[]][+[]]][+[]]+[[+[+[]==+[]][+[]][+[]]+[+[+[]==+[]][+[]][+[]]][+[]]
19:24:53 <moony> thats the number 4
19:25:27 <iovoid> For Infinity you need... 1e290 GB
19:27:19 <moony> ais523, any program that does advanced math in this language subset is doomed, from what i can tell, too much memory requirements, and the inability to subtract
19:27:43 <moony> calculating 256 is already huge using my quadratic method
19:28:03 <ais523> moony: you have array literals, and you have indexing
19:28:08 <ais523> don't bother with integers, just make cons cells
19:30:09 <moony> also, if you replaced + with ~, you may get a little further? i dunno
19:30:42 <moony> admittedly i dont think ` is needed, even if it was, it could be replaced with '
19:31:02 <iovoid> [[[]==[]][+[]]+[]+[]][+[]][+[]]
19:31:03 <ais523> moony: I don't think you can do a loop without `
19:31:17 <ais523> iovoid: adding [] to anything stringifies it
19:31:34 <ais523> this is why we have a limited set of ASCII
19:31:37 <iovoid> Yeah, this stringifies "false"
19:31:42 <ais523> it's all based around what sort of random junk we can stringify
19:34:47 * moony tests to see if hackego has some sort of JS interp.
19:35:05 <HackEgo> Rhino 1.7 release 3 2012 02 13 \ js>
19:35:18 <HackEgo> Invalid option "-h" \ Usage: java org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main [options...] [files] \ Valid options are: \ -?, -help Displays help messages. \ -w Enable warnings. \ -version 100|110|120|130|140|150|160|170 \ Set a specific language version. \ -opt [-1|0-9] Set optimizat
19:35:51 <moony> rhino -c '[[[]==[]][+[]]+[]+[]][+[]][+[]'
19:35:57 <moony> `rhino -c '[[[]==[]][+[]]+[]+[]][+[]][+[]'
19:35:59 <HackEgo> Invalid option "-c '[[[]==[]][+[]]+[]+[]][+[]][+[]'" \ Usage: java org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main [options...] [files] \ Valid options are: \ -?, -help Displays help messages. \ -w Enable warnings. \ -version 100|110|120|130|140|150|160|170 \ Set a specific language version. \
19:37:09 <moony> does hackego have a javascript interp?
19:37:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: node: not found
19:37:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nodejs: not found
19:39:51 -!- ais523 has quit.
19:45:42 <iovoid> [][[[[]==[]][+[]]+[]+[]][+[]][+[]]+[[]+[][[]]][+[]][+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]]+[[]+[[]==[]]][+[]][+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]]+[[]+[[]==[]]][+[]][+[+[]==+[]][+[]]+[+[]==+[]][+[]]]]
19:46:05 <iovoid> Now I need to write "prototype" to get Function (like eval)
19:47:12 <iovoid> I basically got "fill" and did []["fill"]
19:47:24 <iovoid> I got sightly inspired by https://github.com/aemkei/jsfuck/blob/master/jsfuck.js
19:47:35 <iovoid> But I had to adapt it to do it without !
19:48:22 <moony> iovoid, you are magic.
19:49:07 <moony> also, discord's 5k user Programming Discussion channel is now all thinking about ways to do things in this new subset :p
20:00:31 <iovoid> Not sure how to actually call a function with content
20:05:20 <iovoid> Because eval`things` would be like eval(["things"])
20:27:36 <iovoid> I could use ["string"].map(Function)[0]
20:32:54 <iovoid> But that would fail too
20:45:14 <int-e> shachaf: solved number is 295
20:45:38 <shachaf> Does it just show one number?
20:46:41 <int-e> it shows no number at all until I go on "load game", probably the drm-free version is a bit outdated
20:47:13 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:47:40 <shachaf> That's the version I'm using.
20:47:53 <shachaf> But in the load game screen it just shows one number?
20:48:00 <shachaf> I think this might be spoilers.
20:48:19 <int-e> yes. and "the version" may also be misleading since this is humble bundle, not gog.
20:49:10 <shachaf> I have the Humble Bundle DRM-free version.
20:49:14 <int-e> (well, I get a list of what I assume are save slots, this is the latest one, I didn't look at the others)
20:49:44 <shachaf> Anyway I won't spoil any more.
20:54:44 -!- Vorpal has joined.
20:54:44 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host).
20:54:44 -!- Vorpal has joined.
20:56:03 <\oren\> buzz_lightyear_waving.jpg white nationalists. white nationalists, everywhere
20:56:49 <\oren\> apparently (according to facebook) all the news sources trump allows in his press pool are nazis
20:57:11 <\oren\> NBC? nazis. ABC? nazis. Fox News? double nazis!
21:07:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
21:16:52 <shachaf> int-e is going to be all, like, whoa, dude
21:18:11 <int-e> buzz_lightyear_waving.jpg <-- not found.
21:20:40 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:21:54 <int-e> \oren\: infowars and breitbart?
21:22:23 <int-e> also he apparently reads the new york times
21:23:15 <int-e> I still have to read http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-twitter-staffer-235263
21:27:10 <\oren\> I thought breitbart are zionists not nazis?
21:28:16 <int-e> \oren\: perhaps, I think the "nazi" label is used too freely. anti-muslim and possibly racist is what I thought but I have not actually checked.
21:42:35 <int-e> wait, what now... http://nypost.com/2017/02/24/white-house-bars-several-media-outlets-from-press-conference/
21:42:45 * int-e checks channel name
21:46:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:15:38 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:41:41 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
23:08:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:09:45 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
23:21:37 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:21:51 -!- tromp has joined.
23:32:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:53:38 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:01:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:22:58 -!- hppavilion2 has joined.
00:25:12 -!- boily has joined.
00:25:21 <lambdabot> KORD 250005Z 29006KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC006 04/03 A2953 RMK AO2 DZB04 P0000 T00390028
00:25:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:26:41 <lambdabot> EGLL 250020Z AUTO 20006KT 9999 NCD 05/01 Q1018 NOSIG
00:27:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:29:51 <boily> trade shows are exhausting...
00:30:33 <zzo38> How can I make a good hex grid? (I mean the lines that form the edge of each cell)
00:53:19 <oerjan> zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagon#Parameters
00:54:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PARSING CHICKEN).
01:00:44 <shachaf> zzo38: One good way is to make each hexagon have four sides.
01:01:27 <oerjan> hm, that's not even a joke is it
01:02:09 <shachaf> I'm not sure why I said it.
01:02:18 <shachaf> And also not sure why I capitalized and punctuated it.
01:02:40 <oerjan> oh. i actually thought you weren't joking.
01:03:08 <shachaf> Oh, were you thinking of hexagon-square tiling?
01:03:09 <oerjan> no, you should actually have _three_ sides.
01:03:37 <shachaf> Wait, there's no such thing.
01:03:39 -!- gk_-1wm_- has joined.
01:03:39 -!- gk_-1wm_- has left.
01:03:45 <oerjan> no, i was thinking that each side is shared between several hexagons (ok, two), so you could assign it to one of them.
01:05:24 <oerjan> although i'm not sure how much this helps. you probably want to find the larger rectangular grid that all of them sit on
01:05:41 <shachaf> Maybe you can tile them on a sphere.
01:06:32 <oerjan> looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_tiling, there are 7 edges in each such rectangular block
01:08:28 <oerjan> r = sqrt(3)/2 * R, from the other page
01:09:32 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Sat Feb 25 02:09:31 2017
01:10:07 <oerjan> oh wait no, 6 edges, 1 of them is shared.
01:31:51 <oerjan> width/height = 3R/2r = sqrt(3), in fact.
01:32:01 <oerjan> (of rectangular grid.)
01:32:19 <HackEgo> 1/3:496) <oerjan> theorem prover yada yada halting problem. \ 747) <Phantom_Hoover> i once had a dream when i was told to look after some kittens but they were made of chocolate and i ate them :( \ 70) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 366) <Sge
01:32:24 <Sgeo> shachaf, I think when Prismata gets the campaign I'll try playing again
01:32:46 <shachaf> You should port it to your favorite programming language.
01:32:53 <oerjan> @let cf x = f : cf r where f = floor x; r = 1/(x - fromIntegral f)
01:32:56 <HackEgo> 2/3:o> Will anyone be irritated if I tend to disconnect and reconnect a lot? [...] <oerjan> we _almost_ have an established policy that bots will be banned it they do that. which means we might have to administer a turing test to sgeo, and that could get ugly. \ 1053) <Taneb> I would like to learn how to use a sword <Taneb> And also how
01:32:59 <HackEgo> 3/3: to ride a unicycle <Taneb> Perhaps not at the same time
01:33:06 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,13,13,12,1,1,17...
01:33:10 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: That sounds like a pretty bad dream.
01:33:49 <oerjan> @let unCf [x] = x; unCf (x:r) = x + 1/unCf r
01:34:00 <int-e> what is the criterion for a hex grid to be called good
01:34:31 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M281093763716...
01:34:31 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a0)’ from being solved.
01:34:39 <oerjan> > map unCf (tail . inits $ cf $ sqrt (3)) :: [Rational]
01:34:42 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Integral Rational) arising from a use of ‘cf’
01:34:42 <lambdabot> • In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘cf $ sqrt (3)’
01:35:00 <oerjan> @let cf x = f : cf r where f = floor x; r = 1/(x - fromIntegral f)
01:35:14 <rdococ> lambdabot, you're undefined.
01:35:15 <oerjan> @let unCf [x] = x; unCf (x:r) = fromIntegral x + 1/unCf r
01:35:23 <oerjan> @let cf x = f : cf r where f = floor x; r = 1/(x - fromIntegral f)
01:35:33 <oerjan> @let unCf [x] = fromIntegral x; unCf (x:r) = fromIntegral x + 1/unCf r
01:35:41 <oerjan> > map unCf (tail . inits $ cf $ sqrt (3)) :: [Rational]
01:35:44 <lambdabot> [1 % 1,2 % 1,5 % 3,7 % 4,19 % 11,26 % 15,71 % 41,97 % 56,265 % 153,362 % 209...
01:36:35 <oerjan> those would be good approximate ratios to cheat with
01:36:57 <int-e> (tan(pi/6) = 1/sqrt(3) is close enough to 1/2 that people have gotten away with things like http://sprunge.us/bdIU)
01:37:23 <oerjan> int-e: well, that _is_ the second approximation :P
01:37:50 <int-e> > 1/sqrt 3 * 200/240 -- even better in 320x200 mode
01:38:31 <int-e> (if you turn what I did by 90 degrees)
01:38:43 <HackEgo> [U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE]
01:39:44 <lambdabot> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
01:39:51 <lambdabot> "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628...
01:39:52 <int-e> rdococ: so happy that screen+xterm ignore that one, it sounds annoying.
01:40:04 <lambdabot> [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
01:40:20 <shachaf> I like the [1..[4..]!!n] in e_10
01:46:12 <oerjan> HackEgo already makes zero width things
01:46:53 <oerjan> maybe i'd appreciate it more if it didn't like normal text to me.
01:46:54 <zzo38> What I thought is to make a array of one hexagon and then tile that in the way which is offset on odd rows.
01:47:29 <oerjan> zzo38: yeah, that's almost equivalent to what i'm saying.
01:48:04 <oerjan> one hexagon can fit entirely within a rectangular grid block, then another is offset.
01:50:00 <oerjan> by... (3/2*R, r), i think.
01:50:28 <oerjan> which is just half the width and height of the rectangle.
01:51:46 <oerjan> so you could alternatively draw a rectangle with the parts of hexagons that are inside it.
01:52:10 <oerjan> and then tile that normally.
01:53:06 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion1.
01:53:08 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
01:54:25 -!- ais523 has joined.
01:55:10 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:00:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
02:00:53 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/tile.html (only half kidding)
02:01:45 <int-e> (because it's just an affine transformation away to the real thing)
02:03:17 <shachaf> Why affine and not linear?
02:03:25 <shachaf> I guess that picture is affine.
02:06:07 <int-e> affine because in computer graphics you usually have a translation component anyway
02:06:36 <zzo38> The minesweeper game I made it represents all grids in the same way, as two 2D arrays, which is one to map each pixel to a 2D cell coordinate and icon coordinate, and another one to store the contents of the grid (such as which ones are bombs); a fragment program then reads both of these arrays as textures, as well as a third texture containing the icons.
02:06:56 <zzo38> The mouse click function then also reads the first array to determine which cell you clicked on.
02:11:27 -!- kiki` has joined.
02:13:52 -!- Jafet has joined.
02:16:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:26:51 -!- gk_-1wm has joined.
02:26:51 -!- gk_-1wm has left.
02:31:47 <int-e> meh, CSS is still difficult. but http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/tile.html now actually also displays a transformed version of the image.
02:50:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
02:57:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
03:00:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:26:03 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:32:33 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/e8rPXW.jpg
03:40:57 <\oren\> <marquee>I LOVE YOU Streaming-chan</marquee>
03:47:49 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/5Pv8bl.jpg
03:49:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
04:03:15 <zzo38> Do you like either of these kind of Magic: the Gathering: Enchant permanent ;; Flash ;; Enchanted permanent has cumulative upkeep {0}. other one is Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is the number of other cards on the stack.
04:08:02 <\oren\> I added a marqeee to my homepagre
04:11:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
04:17:53 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: what is your opinion on <marquee>?
04:18:13 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Is that one of the nonstandard Netscape tags?
04:18:19 <lambdabot> mroman said 19d 14h 54m 3s ago: "Packt sie an der Muschi"
04:18:34 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 2h 49m 47s ago: <\oren\> cytheraforming? <-- cythereaforming, i think.
04:18:59 <hppavilion[1]> OK, <marquee> was for custom mouse cursors, right?
04:19:13 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/
04:19:27 <\oren\> see the bar where the text scrolls to the left
04:21:23 <oerjan> (also, en:cursor = no:markør)
04:22:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Well, it can be implemented with absurd JS I know, but I feel like this might be one of those weird things that can be done with CSS for no discernible reason
04:22:54 * oerjan finds google hits for "mossauges", but is somehow still not enlightened
04:23:18 <\oren\> http://examples.quackit.com/css/codes/marquees/
04:23:18 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Honestly, my opinion boils down to "HTML is a bad idea and XML should never have been used", because <marquee> makes it clear what you're reading, but I don't think it should be primitive
04:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> I think that a good web language should have included the ability to define custom tags in the first place
04:24:49 <pikhq> Probably the #1 thing that upsets me is that HTML was always SGML-like, but only in theory actually SGML ever.
04:25:39 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: So, for *ages* HTML syntax was formally defined as SGML with a particular DTD.
04:25:40 <zzo38> I think they put all sorts of junk into HTML and the related stuff, you shouldn't need so much CSS you can just use the HTML and have the client render it for the screen it is on
04:25:59 <pikhq> Nobody but the W3C validator parsed it with an SGML parser.
04:26:54 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I like having CSS and HTML separate, because stylesheets should be legible
04:27:08 <pikhq> Which means that the actual real-world syntax of HTML was basically an undocumented rough shared delusion of what the spec was, without anything firm to back it.
04:27:08 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I to agree it can be separate, but I think CSS is overused
04:27:19 <zzo38> Most thing you should not need styles defined for it
04:27:48 <pikhq> HTML5 deals with the problem by completely ignoring SGML and defining a syntax that will actually let you parse real-world HTML.
04:28:26 <oerjan> zzo38: your idea was dead the moment commercial companies got on the web. they _demand_ to be able to force style on users.
04:29:20 <oerjan> css just was a saner way to that than what they did previously.
04:33:54 <\oren\> I use CSS mostly to make my website look like a terminal
04:36:10 <zzo38> I am using CSS mainly to fix the stupid styles and other annoying stuff that other people put on their webpage.
04:37:27 <zzo38> (This can be done using the Stylish extension. Other useful extensions are Grease Monkey, Policeman, and userChrome.js.)
05:04:01 -!- Akaibu has joined.
05:11:35 -!- augur has joined.
05:12:01 -!- [io] has joined.
05:12:01 -!- [io] has quit (Changing host).
05:12:01 -!- [io] has joined.
05:12:04 -!- Ir0nY has joined.
05:12:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined.
05:14:16 -!- nortti_ has joined.
05:14:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services).
05:14:56 -!- b_jonas_ has joined.
05:14:58 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin.
05:15:18 -!- erdic_ has joined.
05:16:32 -!- Guest6667 has joined.
05:16:42 -!- Guest6666 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:16:42 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:16:42 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:16:42 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:16:42 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- catern has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- IronY has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:46 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:47 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:16:49 -!- erdic_ has changed nick to erdic.
05:17:03 -!- Ir0nY has changed nick to IronY.
05:17:26 -!- sirnaysayer has joined.
05:17:41 -!- APic has joined.
05:18:10 -!- paul2520 has joined.
05:18:25 -!- catern has joined.
05:20:13 -!- Vorpal has joined.
05:20:13 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host).
05:20:13 -!- Vorpal has joined.
05:23:56 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
05:24:52 <\oren\> ＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡ
05:25:03 * oerjan shoots \oren\ with a tranquilizer dart >--->
05:25:23 <\oren\> ＡＡＡＡＡＡＡＡAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa....zzzzzzzzzzz
05:29:29 -!- fractal has joined.
05:39:04 <\oren\> I was this close to beating Mario land no niiiiii
05:41:16 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:41:57 -!- paul2520 has joined.
05:42:10 -!- mrnaysayer has joined.
05:42:28 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:44:58 -!- mrnaysayer has changed nick to sirnaysayer.
06:18:36 -!- Jafet has joined.
06:30:03 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/iET9fh_UyIQ?t=17m25s
06:31:58 <pikhq> Doin' pretty okay.
06:32:11 <pikhq> Been a bit of a busy week, but hey.
06:32:14 <shachaf> Are you doing university nowadays?
06:32:43 <pikhq> Which is why it was a busy week; research paper due yesterday that I was working on.
06:34:56 <shachaf> Is your paper about dynamic graph algorithms?
06:35:30 <pikhq> No, it was a humanities class.
06:36:20 <shachaf> Which humanity was it about?
06:36:28 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAA I hate humanity
06:36:28 <pikhq> Political science.
06:37:02 <shachaf> What do you think of political economy?
06:37:23 <\oren\> there's a reason I didn't take any humanity: I can't write essays worth a crap
06:37:33 <shachaf> Did you read Mark Twain's thing on it?
06:38:23 -!- Akaibu has quit.
06:40:30 <pikhq> Haven't read Twain's thing on it.
06:42:44 <shachaf> pikhq: http://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187009a.html hth
06:46:53 <pikhq> Hmm. Should I do something with these CHF, or should I just hold onto them in case the USD becomes literally worthless?
06:47:52 <\oren\> also aqwire some other currencies
06:48:17 <\oren\> in case Le Pen decides to annex switzerland
06:48:38 <pikhq> Switzerland is one of the worst countries to invade.
06:49:15 <pikhq> Considering their entire military strategy is basically to make sure any invader will regret it...
06:52:33 <\oren\> Euros are going to be effectively reichsmarks by the end of 2019 most likely
06:55:49 <shachaf> pikhq: If you like the idea of having exposure to CHF, why not buy more CHF?
06:56:12 <pikhq> I am not made of money, I just happen to have some CHF in my wallet.
06:57:13 <shachaf> Forex is a pretty liquid market so presumably trading costs are low.
06:57:25 <shachaf> If you had just USD would you buy the amount of CHF that you have?
06:57:34 <shachaf> Maybe retail trading costs are not low.
07:08:28 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:10:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
07:33:06 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti.
09:14:11 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet).
09:28:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:30:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:41:16 -!- Jafet has joined.
09:47:11 -!- FreeFull has joined.
10:12:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:30:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:30:56 -!- augur has joined.
10:31:34 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
10:44:10 -!- Lymia has joined.
11:26:05 <int-e> ah, file:///home/bf3/tile.html is even nicer now.
11:26:11 <int-e> hmm, no, not that one...
11:26:26 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/tile.html
12:05:03 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:05:11 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
12:06:52 -!- Jafet has joined.
12:23:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:47:51 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host).
14:47:51 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
15:18:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Reverse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51095 * Serprex * (+7552) Created page with "Most programming languages execute statements in a top-to-bottom fashion. REVERSE takes program flow literally. REVERSE executes statements from top to bottom and from bottom..."
15:25:31 -!- erkin has joined.
15:26:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51096&oldid=51087 * Serprex * (+0) Unless time travellllll
15:45:38 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
15:52:00 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
16:27:34 -!- Zarutian has joined.
16:31:16 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid.
16:32:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:24:22 -!- augur has joined.
17:29:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:14:35 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
18:37:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: *CHIRP*).
18:43:12 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:57:49 -!- kiki` has joined.
19:40:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!).
19:42:59 -!- Lord_of_- has joined.
19:58:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:59:15 -!- Lord_of_- has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
19:59:16 -!- heroux has joined.
19:59:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
19:59:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:59:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
19:59:21 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
19:59:47 -!- augur has joined.
19:59:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:00:25 -!- augur has joined.
20:05:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
20:09:28 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:09:59 -!- augur has joined.
20:29:29 <pikhq> Humorous observation... because SHA-2 defines a family of hash functions SHA-512/x, there is in fact a SHA-512/1 hash function that hashes into *1 bit*.
20:29:49 <pikhq> Collision, first and second preimage attacks on this are easy to perform [citation needed].
20:31:04 <zzo38> Can you use any number of bits?
20:31:57 -!- erkin has joined.
20:34:20 <pikhq> 384 is explicitly banned, going above 511 appears to be meaningless..
20:34:38 <pikhq> (for 384 you should use SHA-384)
20:35:40 <pikhq> SHA-512/x is done by using initial state values specified by the IV generation function, and truncating the output at x bits.
20:36:31 <pikhq> The IV generation function is: evaluate SHA-512 (except with the initial values xored with 0xa5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5) on the ASCII string "SHA-512/x".
20:36:56 <pikhq> I guess SHA-512/0 is well-defined as well, if meaningless.
20:39:11 <pikhq> Not per the spec. 1≤x<512, x≠384 according to the standard. Alas.
20:40:33 -!- krok_ has joined.
20:41:59 <pikhq> I suspect SHA-512/x where x is much less than 224 is pretty poor for security purposes, though.
20:42:17 <pikhq> ... And below 64 collision get pretty trivial.
20:43:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:45:07 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:45:20 -!- HackEgo has joined.
20:45:44 <shachaf> If you truncate SHA-512 it's presumably no longer vulnerable to the obvious length-extension attack.
20:45:52 <shachaf> But maybe there are non-obvious things you can do.
20:48:56 <pikhq> Not a fucking clue.
20:53:50 -!- keemyb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:18:57 <zzo38> What kind of animations with OpenGL might be made up with just a fragment program (with a time input program.env[0].x)?
21:20:24 -!- yorick_ has joined.
21:26:09 -!- keemyb has joined.
21:32:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:32:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
21:32:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:34:40 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:39:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
21:40:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:46:13 -!- heroux has joined.
22:07:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:10:37 <zzo38> I have a tsume shogi game on my computer, level 85 is difficult.
22:10:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:11:15 <zzo38> I could, but I want to do level 85 before level 86
22:11:24 <zzo38> Do you know how to do tsume shogi game?
22:12:26 <zzo38> There is also a time limit, although if you run out of time you can just try again anyways.
22:14:44 <int-e> chess problems, but for shogi. do the objectives vary?
22:15:06 <shachaf> What's your progress at now?
22:15:53 <int-e> (tsume go tends to be mostly about determining group status though sometimes you get to make connections)
22:16:09 <zzo38> It is like chess, although there are some differences, such as that you must give check on every turn.
22:16:14 <int-e> the video is only about 90 minutes anyway
22:16:32 <int-e> I'm trying to hint at the fact that I have not played "The Witness" in the meantime.
22:16:38 <zzo38> Also, your own king is normally not present on the board.
22:16:42 <shachaf> Yes, but what's the video?
22:17:11 <int-e> meta-political but in German, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Rk6I9gXwack
22:17:31 <int-e> apparently closer to 100 minutes
22:17:45 <shachaf> Unfortunately I only know a few words in German.
22:17:53 <shachaf> And this speaker is using different words.
22:18:51 <shachaf> He's talking about eigenschaft, which I assume is some linear algebra thing.
22:20:04 <int-e> Well, he's a professor in cognitive sciences, though the talk isn't in that field, and he really makes this accessible to a general educated audience.
22:20:16 <int-e> "Eigenschaft" is just "property".
22:20:32 <int-e> (in the logical sense)
22:20:45 <shachaf> Actually I can understand a several words, like Repräsentative Demokratie
22:21:38 <shachaf> Heute die Welt, Morgen das Sonnensystem.
22:21:47 <int-e> did you get the point that representative democracy is not a democracy, and actually is not meant to be a democracy at all?
22:22:41 <shachaf> No, but maybe I got some of the spirit of it.
22:23:22 <int-e> ironically you may have the least trouble with the words that require education, like "Hegemonie".
22:26:52 -!- heroux has joined.
22:29:02 <int-e> (The hegemon is the US, of course. "If you look at a map then you'll see how aggressively Russia has approached the US-american bases in Europe, Asia, and Africa." <audience laughs>)
22:35:23 <int-e> heh, never heard of that one. https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-bill/2121/text/enr
22:43:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:43:33 -!- augur has joined.
22:47:20 -!- boily has joined.
22:47:59 -!- wlp1s1 has changed nick to inb4.
22:53:38 <HackEgo> nød//Nød is French for vertex.
22:53:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:12:10 -!- inb4 has changed nick to wlp1s1.
23:19:11 -!- Akaibu has joined.
23:21:45 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:22:31 -!- tromp has joined.
23:24:54 -!- augur has joined.
23:28:20 -!- ski has joined.
23:30:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:49:26 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:04:16 -!- Akaibu has quit.
00:06:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MELTING CHICKEN).
00:13:12 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
00:18:11 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:25:46 <oerjan> my touchpad driver has an annoying feature where sometimes if i scroll down a bit (with two fingers) and release, it immediately starts scrolling fast in the opposite direction... is this common?
00:28:00 <oerjan> hm i cannot seem to reproduce it on purpose
00:28:04 <shachaf> Are you maybe accidentally touching it in another place at the same time?
00:28:16 <shachaf> It sounds familiar but I don't think I've had that exact issue.
00:28:56 <oerjan> could be? i've tried to disable all manner of extra gestures (although the driver keeps removing options, now it no longer allows me to do nothing for 3 fingers)
00:29:30 <shachaf> have you tried installing a different operating system hth
00:30:23 <oerjan> also this is in IE, so technically that could have the blame too...
00:30:50 <shachaf> Is the channel topic supposed to be quoting that Adams thing?
00:31:00 <shachaf> If so, it's doing it very badly.
00:31:23 * oerjan doesn't use any other programs with scrolling, so wouldn't know
00:31:55 <oerjan> it is. what would be better?
00:32:45 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel almost, but not quite, entirely without esolang discussions | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:32:55 <oerjan> i guess i should have actually looked it up
00:35:45 <ais523> incidentally, there's a PPCG question that's a miniature esolang design contest
00:35:53 <ais523> I've designed an esolang for it but am having problems proving it TC
00:36:06 <ais523> which is not surprising, as the language is something of a cross between Incident and Malbolge
00:37:08 <oerjan> . o O ( just use Malbolge Unshackled hth)
00:38:00 <oerjan> did y'all prove that other thing I/O-complete yet?
00:38:24 <oerjan> someone said it had spread to a discord chat
00:40:44 <oerjan> ais523: if it combines incident's ability to use whichever tokens with malbolge's insistence of having specific character subsets in specific spots, it could get awkward
00:40:56 <ais523> what other thing? []+=`?
00:41:22 <ais523> well, the language is much more elegant than Incident /or/ Malbolge
00:42:02 <ais523> also less syntactically complex than either, which is probably good for my sanity
00:45:54 <HackEgo> Invalid option "-e test" \ Usage: java org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main [options...] [files] \ Valid options are: \ -?, -help Displays help messages. \ -w Enable warnings. \ -version 100|110|120|130|140|150|160|170 \ Set a specific language version. \ -opt [-1|0-9] Set opti
00:46:07 <HackEgo> js: uncaught JavaScript runtime exception: ReferenceError: "test" is not defined.
00:46:24 <oerjan> `` rhino -e print "Hi"
00:46:26 <HackEgo> js: Couldn't read source file "Hi: Hi (No such file or directory)".
00:46:37 <oerjan> `` rhino -e 'print "Hi"'
00:46:39 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ; before statement \ js: print "Hi" \ js: .........^
00:46:55 <oerjan> `` rhino -e 'print "Hi";'
00:46:56 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ; before statement \ js: print "Hi"; \ js: .........^
00:47:24 <fizzie> `` rhino -e 'print("Hi");' # it's just a function call
00:47:47 <oerjan> . o O ( did i mention i don't actually know javascript )
00:48:08 <oerjan> `mkx rhino-e//rhino -e "$1"
00:48:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rhino-e: not found
00:51:28 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+[]==+[]);
00:51:44 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+[]==[]);
00:52:21 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+[]==[]+[]);
00:52:35 * oerjan isn't doing this very well
00:52:43 <ais523> `rhino-e print([]==[]_
00:52:44 <ais523> `rhino-e print([]==[])
00:52:45 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ) after argument list \ js: print([]==[]_ \ js: ............^
00:53:48 <oerjan> `rhino-e print([][+[]]);
00:54:53 <oerjan> `rhino-e print([][+[]][+[]]);
00:54:55 <HackEgo> js: uncaught JavaScript runtime exception: TypeError: Cannot read property "0.0" from undefined
00:55:17 <fizzie> `js print("we had this");
00:55:20 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:55:27 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/js
00:55:52 <fizzie> I was going to move your rhino-e into bin/js for simplicity, but there was one already.
00:56:01 <fizzie> It's a lot more elaborate.
00:56:25 <fizzie> Can't get an URL to that. :/
00:56:54 <fizzie> I'm guessing it might look quite similar except without the "-e".
00:57:24 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/rhino: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
00:57:36 <HackEgo> 1/2:#!/bin/sh \ \ JAVA_CMD="/usr/bin/java" \ JAVA_OPTS="" \ JAVA_CLASSPATH="/usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar" \ JAVA_MAIN="org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main" \ \ ## \ ## Remove bootclasspath overriding for OpenJDK since \ ## it now use a mangled version of Rhino (in sun.org.mozilla.rhino package) \ ## \ ## Referen
00:57:55 <oerjan> `` diff /usr/bin/rhino bin/js
00:57:56 <HackEgo> 8,11c8,10 \ < ## \ < ## Remove bootclasspath overriding for OpenJDK since \ < ## it now use a mangled version of Rhino (in sun.org.mozilla.rhino package) \ < ## \ --- \ > ## Fix for #512498 \ > ## Change Bootclasspath when using OpenJDK because OpenJDK6 \ > ## bundle his own release of Rhino. \ 16c15,19 \ < ## \ --- \ > isOpenJDK=`$JAVA_CMD -versi
00:58:25 <fizzie> Probably a different version.
00:58:50 <fizzie> sled bin/js//s,\$@,$*,
00:58:56 <fizzie> `sled bin/js//s,\$@,$*,
00:58:58 <HackEgo> bin/js//#!/bin/sh \ \ JAVA_CMD="/usr/bin/java" \ JAVA_OPTS="" \ JAVA_CLASSPATH="/usr/share/java/js.jar:/usr/share/java/jline.jar" \ JAVA_MAIN="org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main" \ \ ## Fix for #512498 \ ## Change Bootclasspath when using OpenJDK because OpenJDK6 \ ## bundle his own release of Rhino. \ ## References: \ ## <https://bugs.launc
00:59:39 <fizzie> I don't think the "$@" was really a good idea there, because there was already that implicit -e. True, you could provide extra arguments, but they would have had to go *after* the source.
01:02:33 <oerjan> `js print([[][+[]]+[]][+[]][+[]]);
01:03:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:05:37 <shachaf> fizzie: No one's using `edit #scow
01:07:54 <fizzie> I don't think people have been editing much in general.
01:16:01 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, how does x86 protected mode segmentation work again
01:16:29 <Phantom__Hoover> like does it actually involve segment registers or is it a page table type thing
01:17:16 <fizzie> It does sort of involve segment registers, in that you put "descriptors" in them, and the descriptors are basically some flag bits + an index into one of the descriptor tables.
01:17:43 <fizzie> And the descriptor table entry then contains the segment base address, limit (size) and more boring bits.
01:18:57 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:19:24 <fizzie> Well, I mean, everyone pretty much just configures it to be as close to a flat memory model as possible, and just does "architectural" things with segments.
01:19:46 <fizzie> So C pointers are just the offset part, and the segments are implied from context.
01:22:36 <fizzie> Sorry, terminology fail on my behalf.
01:22:43 <fizzie> What you load in the segment register is a "selector".
01:23:01 <fizzie> A "descriptor" is the descriptor table entry, which is what the selector is referring to.
01:23:19 <int-e> in 64 bit mode, the segment registers are actually forced to cover the whole 64 bit address space, with the exception of gs, which has a base stored in an MSR.
01:24:25 <fizzie> And there was something a little complicated with the vestigial segmentation in 64-bit mode.
01:24:46 <int-e> (hmm, I wonder what the intended use for the second one is... thread local storage, and user accessible part of some kernel level thread info?
01:25:22 <fizzie> Something like while the fs/gs base was in an MSR so that you could load a full 64-bit address there, you could also load them via descriptors, or some-such.
01:25:48 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, well right, i'm aware that in practice it was just flat
01:26:06 <int-e> (and I have no real need to find out either)
01:26:15 <Phantom__Hoover> but i'm curious how, conceptually, you're meant to represent non-flat pointers in the c memory model
01:27:05 <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: Well, I mean, you could implement it so that pointers (segment selector, offset) pairs, and every memory allocation adds a new segment descriptor in the table.
01:27:24 <pikhq> If you intend to have *standard* C semantics, you'd have to have pointers be (segment selector, offset) pairs.
01:27:27 <fizzie> (You'd run out of descriptors pretty fast.)
01:27:48 <pikhq> And if you wish to have objects span segments (e.g. real mode segments) you need to have complicated pointer arithmetic.
01:28:22 <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: Well, because then deallocation would be just removing the descriptor.
01:28:36 <fizzie> So okay, you wouldn't exactly "need" that.
01:28:51 <fizzie> But it's the obvious kind of mapping for leveraging all the segmentation synergies.
01:31:11 <fizzie> Also the one where you could conceivably get into trouble with invalid pointers before actually dereferencing them, since loading an invalid selector to a segment register would cause a #GP.
01:31:40 <fizzie> Though I can't think of a concrete example where you'd be doing that without intending to access some memory there.
01:32:15 <pikhq> The somewhat more likely use case would be using it a bit like (crap) pages.
01:32:42 <pikhq> Particularly for the 286's 16-bit protected mode.
01:34:17 <fizzie> pikhq: For context, this was re the C rationale's explanation for why any use of an invalid pointer is undefined, not only dereferencing: http://sprunge.us/SfKi
01:35:20 <pikhq> I suspect such an implementation would be *most* likely on a VM architecture.
01:35:34 <shachaf> There was some non-segmented architecture that that was problematic for, wasn't there?
01:35:50 <pikhq> ... Say, one crafted to make C memory fuckups hard to do anything with other than crash.
01:35:59 <shachaf> when are we all switching to the mill twh
01:37:00 -!- ais523 has quit.
01:38:29 <shachaf> pikhq: you should invest your spare CHF in mill computing inc. hth
01:39:18 * pikhq screws up, invests it in a computerized flour mill
01:43:00 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:43:05 <oerjan> darn, there computing progress ground to a halt
01:44:33 <shachaf> computing progress goes boinc
01:49:38 <fizzie> shachaf: People always mention that "some computers" [weasel words][citation needed] will cause a fault of some sort if you load an invalid pointer to an "address register", but they never seem to actually cite sources.
01:49:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51097&oldid=45032 * Challenger5 * (+437)
01:55:02 <fizzie> "I remember this coming up when we were considering porting Multics to a (then) new Honeywell process (I think it was the DPS/88). -- The new hardware trapped when loading addresses into pointer registers, --" (random forum posting)
01:56:07 <fizzie> Ah, here's a little better quote, with an example as well: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.std.c/VoPl6SiejEk
01:56:09 -!- Jafet has joined.
01:56:15 <fizzie> (Maybe should've gone to comp.std.c in the first place.)
02:10:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51098&oldid=51097 * Oerjan * (+117) /* Even Faster Counter */ *BONK*
02:13:34 <zzo38> I thought the "Future Systems" computer would be error if you load an invalid address?
02:24:12 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:38:28 -!- Jafet has joined.
02:38:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:50:41 <HackEgo> [U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X]
03:23:00 <HackEgo> [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L]
03:39:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:44:48 -!- Jafet has joined.
04:46:13 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:00:09 -!- Jafet has joined.
05:08:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
05:22:54 -!- xfix has joined.
05:25:40 -!- zgrepc_ has joined.
05:26:45 -!- xfix_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
05:28:27 -!- nitrix_ has joined.
05:29:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:30:05 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
05:33:29 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
05:33:29 -!- zgrepc has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
05:33:29 -!- nitrix has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
05:35:12 -!- zgrepc_ has changed nick to zgrepc.
06:04:06 -!- MDude has joined.
06:34:28 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:39:39 -!- Jafet has joined.
06:48:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
07:20:37 -!- lynn has joined.
09:04:06 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet).
09:22:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:47:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:54:57 -!- erkin has joined.
09:56:15 -!- Jafet has joined.
09:57:22 -!- vasya_ has joined.
10:08:47 -!- augur has joined.
11:03:29 -!- APic has joined.
11:10:53 -!- Zarutian has joined.
11:16:29 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
11:19:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
11:21:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
11:22:01 -!- vasya_ has left.
11:43:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
11:55:26 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:01:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:04:12 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
12:35:41 -!- augur_ has joined.
12:38:43 -!- kiko has joined.
12:39:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:54:11 -!- kiko has left ("ByrdIRC").
13:10:23 -!- FreeFull has joined.
13:19:04 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:38:54 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:52:44 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:58:21 -!- ^v has joined.
14:59:10 -!- ^v has quit (Excess Flood).
14:59:18 -!- ^v has joined.
15:00:34 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:02:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
15:13:07 -!- Jafet has joined.
15:40:32 -!- atrapado_ has joined.
16:02:49 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:44:09 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:44:59 <oerjan> well that was a fast log to read
16:46:52 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
16:47:15 <wob_jonas> wow, you're so fast today, HackEgo
16:47:53 <oerjan> wtf do you have that temperature at this season
16:52:51 <int-e> the quick-footed shadowboxing oerjan jumps over the lazy log
16:54:07 <oerjan> > nub $ sort "the quick-footed shadowboxing oerjan jumps over the lazy log"
16:54:08 <int-e> . o O ( almost surfing at the speed of light! )
16:54:54 <oerjan> hm thought you'd missed the r but there's another one.
16:55:51 <int-e> okay, another one, if you look at what's left of the original
16:56:47 <oerjan> yeah, right, that's TOTALLY what i did, um.
16:58:52 <int-e> shachaf: have you looked at "girls love robots"?
17:00:27 <oerjan> . o O ( "my boyfriend is so metal" )
17:01:27 <int-e> girls love robots and pizza and hate nerds; however they don't mind being near nerds if they have pizza.
17:01:47 <int-e> I'm not sure what kind of message this game is supposed to convey, but the puzzles are kind of fun.
17:02:16 <int-e> (though very repetetive, but there are a few cute twists)
17:04:01 <HackEgo> repetive:A repetive action is one that tries to repeat something, but fails miserably.
17:06:31 <shachaf> int-e: when you said you did some nonobvious puzzles, did you mean that the solutions were nonobvious or that the puzzles themselves were nonobvious twh
17:12:54 <int-e> shachaf: the former. one case where I had trouble finding the right rule because the training example I encountered at first were too simple.
17:13:21 <int-e> and maybe two cases where the environment played into the puzzle in a surprising way
17:15:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:36:27 <DHeadshot> The spec of the language I'm writing contains the following text: 'Please note that if `A` is a Character variable containing `"7"` and `B` is a Character variable containing `"0"` and `C` is a String variable containing `"0"`, that `A - B` yields a Character containing BEL (the Bell Character), but that `A - C` yields a String `"55"` (55 being the ASCII value of 7).'
17:38:26 <DHeadshot> It makes sense when you think really hard about it, but not much to the average user...
17:39:00 <DHeadshot> Note that if both "7" and "0" are strings, the result is "7" (a string).
17:41:44 <DHeadshot> At least it's not a BrainFuck clone...
17:44:14 <oerjan> "At least it's not a BrainFuck clone" may be a little weird, but at At least it's not a BrainFuck clone.
17:52:35 <DHeadshot> Incidentally, this function I've been working on for about a week is now 4000 lines long and counting... I probably should have broken it up more.
17:54:53 <DHeadshot> And it's not even finished, though I may be half-way through now...
18:08:46 <zzo38> You mention "The Witness" game but do you know "The Wit.nes" game?
18:22:30 <HackEgo> 614) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
18:23:16 <int-e> why would it, beyond possibly confusing the strictness analysis...
18:24:19 <oerjan> if you converted a lazy field to a strict one, perhaps. i don't remember what i was testing.
18:24:59 <oerjan> hm how does unsafeCoerce work with the new levity stuff...
18:25:55 <int-e> @quote kind-preserving
18:25:56 <lambdabot> int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/
18:26:07 <int-e> . o O ( is that still true? )
18:34:01 <HackEgo> Which of You Burns Brightest?
18:34:58 <oerjan> :t GHC.Prim.unsafeCoerce#
18:35:11 <oerjan> i got something else in ghci
18:35:23 <oerjan> forall (q :: GHC.Types.RuntimeRep) (r :: GHC.Types.RuntimeRep) (a :: TYPE
18:35:45 <oerjan> which looks like it _doesn't_ require the same kind
18:37:25 <oerjan> int-e: so, apparently no.
18:39:33 <oerjan> Prelude GHC.Prim> unsafeCoerce# (1# :: Int#) :: Int
18:39:33 <oerjan> Segmentation fault/access violation in generated code
18:40:36 <lambdabot> ghc says: Dangerous-looking argument. Probable cause: bad unsafeCoerce#
18:40:44 <shachaf> Oh, I meant the one above.
19:04:31 <zzo38> GHC has a -XUnicodeSyntax extension, but I think should also have -XAntiUnicodeSyntax extension which allow you to import modules that have names containing non-ASCII characters without needing any non-ASCII characters in your own file.
19:05:02 <zzo38> (You can combine these extensions, although there wouldn't be much point in doing so.)
19:05:31 <oerjan> the Haskell standard is Unicode-based, deal with it.
19:09:34 <zzo38> JavaScript allow you to avoid needing non-ASCII character in your file even if importing something that does use non-ASCII character in their identifiers, by using \u in the names. The same syntax would not be suitable for Haskell so a new kind should be needed
19:10:06 <oerjan> you can probably do it with template haskell
19:14:34 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:15:33 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so. That would be a way to do it without a new extension
19:27:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:27:38 -!- erkin has joined.
20:03:04 -!- augur has joined.
20:15:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:52:34 -!- augur has joined.
21:11:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
21:14:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:20:50 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:31:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:35:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:42:21 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:45:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:20:06 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick.
22:29:57 <zzo38> Another thing is that although JavaScript has this "anti-Unicode" syntax it is not needed so much as Haskell would be, due to how JavaScript is working.
22:36:37 <wob_jonas> because of that proof that shows you can write any javascript with like just six different characters or something
22:37:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:40:38 <zzo38> Yes, although it isn't really what I quite meant anyways; I meant having to do with how objects in JavaScript, you will have all of the functions imported from another module probably as properties on some object, so you can use the [ ] syntax to access instead of . syntax so it can be a string literal or a string constant name (declared by "const" at the top of your program for example)
22:42:08 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, that's basically what that ()[] javascript thingy does
22:49:34 <Jafet> five, according to ais523 http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/111002
22:50:56 <Jafet> it's a TC subset though
22:56:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:00:57 <wob_jonas> Jafet: probably six for what zzo38 wants, but that's very interesting, I haven't seen it yet
23:01:33 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
23:10:05 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
23:14:03 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:19:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:20:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:20:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:21:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:22:57 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:22:57 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:29:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
23:33:39 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:35:56 -!- LKoen has joined.
23:41:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
23:59:51 -!- krok_ has joined.
00:07:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:08:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
00:13:34 <int-e> shachaf: 373+1 and 9 lasers now, good night
00:14:24 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:17:17 <zzo38> Into the next specification of ARB_fragment_program should add the arctangent function I think it seem to be the only thing they miss.
00:23:15 <int-e> well GLSL has it anyway
00:34:20 <HackEgo> Invalid option "--version" \ Usage: java org.mozilla.javascript.tools.shell.Main [options...] [files] \ Valid options are: \ -?, -help Displays help messages. \ -w Enable warnings. \ -version 100|110|120|130|140|150|160|170 \ Set a specific language version. \ -opt [-1|0-9] Set op
00:35:13 <oerjan> hm based on the 170, it's even older than what's on my nvg account, which is from 2011.
00:35:54 * oerjan is having trouble running some of the code examples on ppcg
00:36:28 <oerjan> in particular, []["find"] returns undefined, while the claim there was it should give a function object
00:38:32 <zzo38> You should add the one with ES6
00:38:57 <oerjan> oh according to wikipedia, there hasn't been a new version since 1.8.5, so that's not the problem
01:01:06 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:03:17 -!- augur has joined.
01:09:40 <fizzie> oerjan: It's "Rhino 1.7 release 3 2012 02 13".
01:09:49 <fizzie> oerjan: I sometimes update the actual machine, but never really the chroot from which HackEgo gets its /usr from.
01:10:07 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:10:32 <oerjan> that ppcg thread seemed to be using browser js implementations, anyway
01:10:46 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't know if Rhino's really all that hip and pop anymore.
01:11:12 <fizzie> Node runs on Chrome's V8, right?
01:11:44 * oerjan has "no idea" about this stuff
01:13:01 <fizzie> Me neither, I just saw a Github repo README advertising jobs for people "keen on ES2016 React+Redux applications and Node micro services".
01:13:28 <fizzie> So I guess that's where they think it's at.
01:20:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:26:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:41:47 <oerjan> this has some other interesting entries than the js []+=` as well http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/110648/fewest-distinct-characters-for-turing-completeness
01:42:29 * oerjan is only a slight way down yet
01:43:18 * oerjan somehow wasn't expecting haskell to get the top place, but in hindsight...
01:46:24 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
01:52:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:07:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:26:58 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:30:11 * oerjan felt an urge to add "resident" somewhere
02:52:55 -!- \oren\ has joined.
02:53:01 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
02:55:11 * oerjan uses the tranquilizer arrow again >--->
03:02:59 <zzo38> fizzie: Node.js does use V8 JavaScript, yes.
03:07:47 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:16:19 <\oren\> If the value of a variable is not printed out often enough, it randomizes
03:26:19 <oerjan> fizzie: HackEgo is disjointed again hth
04:01:18 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:05:26 <\oren\> my election slogan will be "vote for me, or you're a nazi"
04:06:37 <\oren\> vote for meeeee or youre a naziiiii
04:06:42 <oerjan> nazi is stressed on the first syllable hth
04:09:20 <\oren\> whatever, the point is, all my opponents are literlly hitler.
04:10:18 <\oren\> therefore, my voters are good people, and the people who voted against me are nazis
04:11:54 <zzo38> I think that is not how to
04:12:07 <pikhq> At the rate American politics is going, in 2024 the GOP might literally resurrect Hitler for their candidate.
04:12:08 * oerjan envisions \oren\ breaking into russia to get a genetic sample of hitler's jaw, so he can clone opponents
04:13:30 <\oren\> "Mr. Oren, how do you respond to allegations that you took campain controbutions from the oil indestry?" "The news outlets that reported that are the modern day der sturmer."
04:14:11 <oerjan> "Mr. Oren, we must protest your heinously ungrammatical use of "der" in that sentence."
04:15:18 <\oren\> "No you can't have a question, you're der sturmer!"
04:16:12 -!- heroux has joined.
04:20:10 -!- heroux has quit (K-Lined).
04:21:45 <\oren\> pikhq: then the democratic party clearly need to get Lenin
04:25:39 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
04:55:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
05:00:50 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSh2HswKn5Y
05:01:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
05:13:34 <oerjan> wat, girl genius hasn't updated
05:15:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rbl0n3BUQ
05:18:29 <\oren\> I wonder if Jepf is playing Va-11 Hall-A?
05:23:29 <\oren\> ARGH idiots it's not A E S T H E T I C it's ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ
05:25:42 <alercah> choir has a song with a click in it
05:25:47 <alercah> I was not cut out to be a Zulu
05:30:07 <alercah> that's the c, we're doing the q
05:37:27 <\oren\> Click this bar! Get my font! It's designed for ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ terminals and editors.
05:38:34 <pikhq> ｱﾉｻ､ ｿﾉ ｾﾞﾝｶｸﾛｰﾏｼﾞｹﾞ ﾍﾝﾀﾞﾄ ｵﾓｳﾉｻ｡
05:40:04 <\oren\> pikhq: what, the ones in my font you mean?
05:40:13 <pikhq> No, just in general.
05:40:50 <\oren\> oh. the ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ is something I see posted all over vaporwave songs on youtube in the comments
05:41:16 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ <-- you can see how it looks in my font here
05:45:04 <alercah> \oren\: what was your dataset for the japanese n5 test?
05:45:50 <\oren\> Something I found using google
05:46:10 <\oren\> I then copypasted it, sedded it up into the file
05:54:10 <\oren\> m currenlty updating my font
05:55:56 <\oren\> 浪浮浸涙涯涼淑淡淫添渇渉渋渓渡渦湧湾湿溝溶溺滅滋滑滝滞滴漂漆漏漠漬漸潜
05:59:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
06:01:47 <pikhq> Some useful characters in there.
06:02:56 <\oren\> I don't know why those wen't already in
06:05:28 <\oren\> ᔾᔿᕀᕁᕂᕃᕄᕅᕆᕇᕈᕉᕊᕋᕌᕍᕎᕏᕐᕑᕒᕓᕔᕕᕖᕗᕘᕙᕚᕛᕜᕝᕞᕟᕠᕡᕢᕣᕤᕥᕦᕧᕨᕩᕪᕾᕿᖀᖁᖂᖃᖄᖅ
06:05:45 <\oren\> almost finished with inuktitut
06:10:14 <\oren\> and more mathy stuff ⦛⦜⦝⦞⦟⦠⦡⦢⦣⦤⦥⦦⦧⦨⦩⦪⦫⦬⦭⦮⦯⧄⧅⧆⧇⧈⧉⧊⧋⧌⧍⧎⧏⧐⧘⧙⧚⧛⧜⧝⧞⧟
06:11:24 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:15:12 <\oren\> that's it for this update
06:25:06 -!- Cale has joined.
06:28:59 <\oren\> oh, and I'm updating my description
06:29:03 <\oren\> Neoletters supports the unicode ｗｉｄｅ, 𝐛𝐨𝐥𝐝, 𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑐, 𝓈𝒸𝓇𝒾𝓅𝓉, 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯, and 𝕕𝕠𝕦𝕓𝕝𝕖𝕤𝕥𝕣𝕦𝕔𝕜 letters, and renders bold fraktur as 𝖚𝖓𝖈𝖎𝖆𝖑.
07:08:22 -!- LKoen has joined.
07:12:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:35:54 <zzo38> I made a implementation of /// and the second beer program seems broke. I think I can see that the beer program seem wrong to me actually.
07:37:28 <zzo38> I changed "[/NL1/NL/]" into "[/NL1/NL-/]", and "[/NLNL0#0!//]" into "[/NLNL-0#-0!//]", and "[/1 bottles/1 bottle/V" into "[/NL-/NL//NL bottles/NL1 bottle/V", and now it is work. Is that the proper way to do?
07:38:46 <zzo38> Does the original program works on your computer?
08:22:58 <Jafet> so there's a U+25FB WHITE MEDIUM SQUARE, and also a U+1F78F MEDIUM WHITE SQUARE
08:24:07 <Jafet> (the first medium is neither large nor small; the second medium is neither heavy nor light)
08:24:16 <Jafet> unicode, for all your white multimedia needs
08:24:24 <shachaf> 25FB WHITE MEDIUM SQUARE [◻]
08:24:32 <shachaf> 1F78F MEDIUM WHITE SQUARE [🞏]
09:07:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:08:03 -!- augur has joined.
09:12:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:21:14 -!- HackEgo has joined.
09:35:30 -!- augur has joined.
09:42:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:21:59 <int-e> shachaf: I expected that question.
10:31:58 -!- erkin has joined.
10:34:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
11:11:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51100&oldid=51049 * Haael * (+70) /* Mathematics */ Base 2
11:15:49 -!- augur_ has joined.
11:18:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
11:39:35 -!- boily has joined.
11:40:14 <HackEgo> title//Titles J. K. Rowling had specifically denied on her webpage would be the titles of the sixth or seventh Harry Potter book are: Harry Potter and the{ Green Flame Torch, Mountain of Fantasy, Fortress of Shadows, Forest of Shadows, Graveyard of Memories, Pyramids of Furmat, Pillar of Storgé, Toenail of Icklibõgg}.
11:46:54 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:07:18 <b_jonas_> \oren\: about your font, since you're adding such rare characters, you should consider adding vowels for Russian, Bulgarian, and Lithuanian with extra accents to mark stress or length that are used only in dictionaries, not in ordinary text. Many of these don't have precomposed characters in unicode, but you can still make a glyph for them.
12:07:26 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas.
12:28:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WACKY CHICKEN).
12:45:08 -!- xfix has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:47:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
12:54:54 -!- xfix has joined.
12:59:57 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
13:09:46 -!- copumpkin has joined.
13:15:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:33:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:42:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:15:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
14:16:01 -!- augur has joined.
14:20:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
14:30:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
14:39:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
14:58:35 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:15:52 -!- nitrix_ has changed nick to nitrix.
15:49:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:54:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:57:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:17:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:19:27 <zzo38> Does the format support ligatures so that you can select glyph in such way?
16:25:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: in theory the TTF/OTF formats do support that, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if \oren\ could actually emit the right TTF/OTF for that. BDF doesn't support that.
16:37:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:46:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:56:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Reverse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51101 * Oerjan * (+21) Redirect
17:01:09 <oerjan> <zzo38> Does the original program works on your computer? <-- nope, thanks
17:22:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:33:33 <\oren\> b_jonas: I plan to figure it out eventually
17:34:37 <b_jonas> \oren\: great! what other font format stuff do you plan to figure out eventually as well? bitmap and graymap fonts in TTF? variant glyphs, including language and writing direction specific ones?
17:34:59 <b_jonas> variable width fonts including kerning?
17:35:55 <b_jonas> the scary (for me) part in figuring out some of this stuff is that you'd have to test the font file with various font rendering backends, many of which only run on particular operating systems
17:36:29 <b_jonas> and that when your font works in one implementation but not the other, you won't get sane error messages
17:36:58 <b_jonas> you need to test the microsoft and adobe software, which you can't easily debug
17:38:23 <\oren\> the main things on my to do list are extra accents, getting indic/arabic shapes to work on all OS's
17:38:57 <b_jonas> oh... so no true bitmap stuff?
17:39:03 <b_jonas> or have you already got that working?
17:40:05 <\oren\> TTF bitmaps seem to only work on Linux for me, and on Linux I can use other formats than TTF
17:40:56 <b_jonas> yeah, I said it was hard to debug
17:41:14 <\oren\> specifically, for xterm I just used bdftopcf
17:44:33 <\oren\> currently, the problem I'm attempting to solve is eliminating fontforge from the BDF to TTF conversion process
17:45:07 <b_jonas> oh, also, I'd like a latin letter e with diaresis and acute accent (ë́) (and its uppercase version just in case), which I think the above list doesn't imply
17:45:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: are you using that newfangled font creation library? I dunno what its name is
17:45:43 <\oren\> the current process is I use my own program to do the conversion, then open the resulting TTF in font forge and save it.
17:45:56 <b_jonas> the one that someone started to write when they decided fontforge is so old and complicated it's easier to just rewrite everything
17:46:19 <\oren\> No, my program isn't using any libraries it just does everything the hard way
17:47:06 <\oren\> see http://orenwatson.be/bdf2ttf.c.htm
17:47:54 <\oren\> It outputs a TTF that isn't quite valid enough for Microsoft
17:48:09 <\oren\> but I'm almost there I think
17:48:12 <b_jonas> (I think it's called TruFont)
17:53:20 <\oren\> On the other hand since it is only designed for my particular font that means I can put a lot of the values directly into the code and it's quite a short program
17:56:01 <\oren\> ok so Apple says my hmtx table is crappy.
17:56:18 <\oren\> and I think I know why. It has a length of 81918
17:56:33 <\oren\> which, crucially, doesn't divide by 4
17:57:10 <b_jonas> I don't know what that means, but sure
17:57:37 <\oren\> well TTF uses these 32 bit hashes for validation
17:57:53 <b_jonas> validation? validation of what?
17:58:09 <\oren\> i dunno. data, i guess
17:58:15 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:58:53 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:58:55 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:59:06 <b_jonas> oh, so now you're hunting down the half a dozen very stupid typos that are in the parts of the code where you wouldn't guess there could be a problem
17:59:51 <\oren\> yeah. I'm not sure what the problem with the hmtx table is, but at least apple is kind enough to tell me WHY they refuse to install my font
18:01:05 <\oren\> the loca table has a length of 83596
18:02:40 -!- dok has joined.
18:09:07 -!- FreeFull has joined.
18:17:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:23:30 <\oren\> hooray, now apple only thinks my name table is bad.
18:28:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51102&oldid=51096 * Dok * (+596) Adds Factorial and Fibonacci examples
18:44:25 -!- furozo has joined.
18:59:48 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:21:59 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
19:22:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:23:00 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:31:44 -!- kiki` has joined.
19:36:51 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
19:50:45 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:56:45 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:56:54 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:13:30 -!- Cale has joined.
20:22:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:30:58 -!- nycs has joined.
20:32:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:32:31 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
20:36:45 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:59:12 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
21:06:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:15:27 -!- Zarutian has joined.
21:15:38 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:16:23 -!- Zarutian has joined.
21:16:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:28:18 <\oren\> maybe elon dug his tunnels too greedily, and too deep, and they have discovered that balrogs can be tamed and used to haul cargo into space
21:28:24 <\oren\> Space X announcement is late
21:31:04 <\oren\> and it's not even luxury. compared to proper italian coffee starbucks is like diarhea in a dixie cup
21:33:19 -!- erkin has joined.
21:35:01 <fizzie> <fizzie> There's a sign on a fence I see on my commute that says "Danger" and "Deep excavations". I'm worried about a possible balrog threat.
21:35:23 <fizzie> The sign's gone now, incidentally.
21:36:01 <fizzie> But I couldn't go past it a single time without thinking about Balrogs.
21:38:41 <Phantom_Hoover> speaking of balrogs, they released a trailer for the sequel to that shadow of mordor game
21:39:26 <Phantom_Hoover> it looks like an even greater feat of missing the point of lotr than the first one
21:41:17 -!- augur has joined.
21:51:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:04:55 <\oren\> Manned Dragon to do lunar tourist flight!
22:04:57 <\oren\> the spacex flight is with two people
22:05:02 <\oren\> it's rumored to be a couple on their honeymoon
22:08:24 -!- dok has left ("WeeChat 1.0.1").
22:18:50 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
22:19:48 <\oren\> it will be the first people to go to the moon in 45 years
22:19:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:12:32 -!- LKoen has joined.
23:13:22 <Jafet> perhaps they could call this launcher a cow, instead
23:21:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:23:05 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:23:36 <zzo38> Implementation of /// with JavaScript: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/slashes.js
23:23:48 -!- tromp has joined.
23:24:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:25:41 <shachaf> Can I run that in my web browser?
23:27:01 <zzo38> Not as is, but if you replace the input and output, and add a HTML to go with it, then you can.
23:29:06 <zzo38> (If you are on Mozilla then you can also use XUL instead of HTML)
23:31:19 <zzo38> I still think though there are some things that XUL is better for than HTML is
23:35:51 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet).
23:36:09 -!- Jafet has joined.
23:43:12 -!- boily has joined.
23:47:28 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:59:27 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
00:00:25 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:01:40 -!- sparr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:02:05 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:02:11 <HackEgo> nød//Nød is French for vertex.
00:02:24 <boily> that is outrageous! I shall eat a poutine!
00:02:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SWAHILI CHICKEN).
00:03:03 <HackEgo> 1/2:violation//Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family. \ free//A free structure is one that has no nontrivial identities, except algebraist phrase that in a much fancier way with morphisms. \ c#//C Pound is Java's good twin. \ tg//TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a mult
00:03:07 <HackEgo> 2/2:iplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
00:03:26 <HackEgo> 7392:2016-04-16 <b_jonäs> slashlearn free/A free structure is one that has no nontrivial identities, except algebraist phrase that in a much fancier way with morphisms.
00:04:51 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
00:05:57 <HackEgo> incomprehensibly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:06:03 <shachaf> have you been put into a higgledy piggledy yet twh
00:07:30 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
00:14:32 -!- sparr has joined.
00:22:24 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:22:32 -!- adu has joined.
00:28:37 <HackEgo> 8208:2016-05-29 <b_jonäs> learn Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
00:48:57 -!- Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:15:21 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
01:33:52 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
01:35:51 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
01:55:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:07:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:27:42 <shachaf> lynn: my sister will be learning latin this year apparently?
02:27:54 <shachaf> what can i say to confuse or amuse her twh
02:28:22 <shachaf> is lynn around here nowadays anyway
03:01:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:06:10 -!- adu has joined.
03:10:38 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit).
03:17:08 <zzo38> Do you know how to write Latin well?
03:32:44 -!- sparr has quit (Changing host).
03:32:44 -!- sparr has joined.
04:00:25 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:27:36 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
04:35:25 -!- diginet_ has joined.
04:36:24 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
04:36:25 -!- diginet_ has changed nick to diginet.
05:12:31 -!- krok_ has joined.
06:00:50 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:02:25 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:30:39 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
06:31:16 -!- augur has joined.
06:54:18 -!- gk-1wm-su has joined.
06:54:22 -!- gk-1wm-su has left.
07:53:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:55:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
07:56:00 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:13:30 -!- erkin has joined.
08:47:11 <izabera> ||||||||||||||||||||||||\\\\ //|||||||||||
08:51:20 <Taneb> You know what you need, izabera
08:51:54 <Taneb> If you need to ask that question you've missed the point
08:51:57 <shachaf> to make it more realistic put some ———————— on top hth
08:53:10 <shachaf> the drift is my bookshelves are a mess
08:57:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:09:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:21:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:28:58 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
09:31:29 <int-e> shachaf: and nothing, it wasn't the obvious one, which is visible from the mountain top
09:57:45 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:12:03 -!- augur has joined.
10:25:37 <int-e> (I estimate that's after 30 hours of play... so time-consuming)
10:28:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
10:35:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
10:58:04 <Taneb> You know when you haven't had enough sleep and everything kind of feels a little fuzzy?
10:59:58 <int-e> (I realize that may not be an option)
11:03:24 <Taneb> Believe me, I want to
11:27:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
11:32:37 -!- boily has joined.
11:36:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:37:00 -!- augur has joined.
11:40:03 <HackEgo> brainfuck//brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
11:41:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:46:55 -!- adu has joined.
12:01:47 -!- LKoen has joined.
12:05:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
12:30:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WORKAROUND CHICKEN).
12:44:11 <b_jonas> boily: wisdom/nød was me, and I'm sorry for it. yes, wisdom/free and wisdom/manager were me too, and those are factually accurate, like all wisdoms, except that one.
12:52:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:54:48 <izabera> unplug mouse and connect it to other pc
13:02:20 -!- ybden has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:08:29 -!- ybden has joined.
13:11:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:18:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
13:24:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:38:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
13:38:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:38:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
13:38:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:48:09 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
13:50:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:51:34 -!- pledis has joined.
13:53:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
13:53:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:53:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
13:53:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
13:55:11 <HackEgo> pledis: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:56:57 <int-e> . o O ( reldundancy is the tendency of #esoteric to `relcome people several times? )
13:58:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:59:14 -!- LKoen has joined.
14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:12:16 <b_jonas> izabera: is that like dragging a document to the desktop, then plugging the monitor to another computer, then dragging the document from the desktop to the hard disk.
14:25:30 <HackEgo> 748) <pikhq> I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". <quintopia> pikhq: to what? <pikhq> To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse.
14:25:33 <HackEgo> o//o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the worl
14:25:43 <HackEgo> gamemanj//gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong.
14:26:07 <int-e> . o O ( I. M. Here )
14:30:30 -!- pledis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
14:42:48 -!- moony has joined.
14:43:24 <fizzie> b_jonas: izabera: My VT510 had an in-terminal copy/paste feature, that would actually have worked there.
14:50:00 -!- nycs has joined.
14:52:54 -!- pledis has joined.
14:58:43 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
14:58:49 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:59:36 -!- deltab has joined.
15:04:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Anonymous * New user account
15:06:52 -!- erkin has joined.
15:21:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: traditionally you used ticker tape for that, where the unbelievably fast tape punch and reader was built into the terminal for exactly this
15:21:51 -!- _11 has joined.
15:21:55 <_11> Sgeo: hey!
15:22:08 <b_jonas> but they phased out the tapes when large RAM and hard disks became practical enough
15:22:17 <_11> I might use your Rust GADT in https://github.com/46bit/evco
15:22:43 <_11> ( https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/b707a941e2460b25d59b )
15:22:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
15:23:11 <_11> <Taneb IRL> I think you've just crashed the idris-bot.
15:23:16 <_11> <_11 IRL> Oops.
15:25:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51103&oldid=51094 * Anonymous * (+288) /* Introductions */
15:25:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[+-]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51104 * Anonymous * (+470) Created page with "== About language == '''+-''' is joke language created by [http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Anonymous Anonymous] user. It have only 2 commands: <br/> + - increments the accumulat..."
15:26:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51105&oldid=51062 * Anonymous * (+31) /* General languages */
15:28:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Anonymous]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51106 * Anonymous * (+111) Created page with "== About Me == I'm Vladislav Karpushov. My English is poor. I sometimes creating the joke programming language."
15:28:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Anonymous]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51107&oldid=51106 * Anonymous * (+1) /* About Me */
15:29:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Anonymous]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51108&oldid=51107 * Anonymous * (+50) /* About Me */
15:30:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[+-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51109&oldid=51104 * Anonymous * (+11) /* Interpretator */
15:33:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51110&oldid=51105 * Anonymous * (+1) /* General languages */
15:39:46 -!- idris-bot has joined.
15:43:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[+-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51111&oldid=51109 * Anonymous * (+496) /* JavaScript interpreter */
15:44:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[+-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51112&oldid=51111 * Anonymous * (+9) /* +-= Programs */
15:45:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51113&oldid=51110 * Anonymous * (+32) /* General languages */
15:46:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51114&oldid=51113 * Anonymous * (+4) /* General languages */
15:59:17 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
16:27:11 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
16:30:44 <shachaf> int-e: I don't remember where I'm at bit maybe you're part me by now.
16:31:07 <shachaf> I should reboot to Windows sometime.
16:31:40 <int-e> Well, Torment: Tides of Numenera got released, that has potential to slow me down significantly.
16:35:34 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:36:31 -!- LKoen has joined.
16:38:14 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:38:38 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
16:43:07 -!- augur has joined.
16:52:52 <fizzie> int-e: I saw there was an update email, but didn't actually read it yet.
16:52:58 <fizzie> I guess that's next weekend sorted.
16:59:25 <shachaf> maybe you should try this poochness thing hth
17:00:59 <fizzie> I don't have a copy of it.
17:21:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:43:52 <\oren\> I usually transfer files between computers using a SD card
17:44:15 <\oren\> but sometimes, the sd card slot doesn't exist
17:46:11 <b_jonas> \oren\: I own three sd card readers because of that
17:46:18 <b_jonas> so I can plug them into most computers
17:46:31 <b_jonas> actually, I own four if you count the mobile phone, because that can also serve as a micro-SD reader
17:46:38 <b_jonas> and can plug into a computer via USB
17:46:56 <b_jonas> (in a pinch it can also plug into another mobile phone via bluetooth)
17:47:28 <b_jonas> I own three because I have an old one at home, a new one at home that I bought because the old one was slow, and one at work.
17:48:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: any news about debugging the font format you're emitting?
18:00:28 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:02:00 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:08:02 <\oren\> I've got it down to the relation between the hmtx and loca tables
18:08:29 <\oren\> the name table issue appears to be solved
18:14:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:35:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:44:36 -!- krok_ has joined.
18:59:14 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:05:41 <\oren\> halp me I can't stop listening to 猫 シ Corp.
19:06:56 <quintopia> why are all the sites i use going down today
19:07:23 <pikhq> Or in AWS terminology, "experiencing an increased error rate".
19:12:32 <quintopia> i wonder if i can connect to stuff via VPS then. i think it's in dallas.
19:15:23 <Zarutian> I have a better more general explanation: Cloud evaporation.
19:15:52 <\oren\> AAAAAAA my site is on AWS
19:16:04 <\oren\> my site might go down oh noes
19:16:28 <\oren\> well, then again I have a reserved instance
19:16:28 <int-e> enjoy the clear blue sky while it lasts
19:16:36 <int-e> soon it'll be pouring down again
19:16:49 <\oren\> so maybe I won't have as much a prbolem
19:16:56 <pikhq> \oren\: If you're storing it on not-S3 you shouldn't have much issue.
19:19:02 <pikhq> EC2 to my knowledge is fine.
19:19:21 <quintopia> quora is inaccesible from anywhere
19:20:32 <\oren\> yeah. it's like cigarettes, addictive and cancerous
19:21:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:21:34 <Zarutian> quora? you mean that site that always spams Google but never actually lets you read any of it questions and answers?
19:22:07 <quintopia> nah it's like yeast. it grows rapidly and makes good things like bread and beer, but can occasionally cause nasty side effects too
19:23:00 <quintopia> Zarutian: people who won't take three seconds to make a free account don't deserve to read it
19:24:48 <\oren\> I refuse to make an account for clickbaiting trash
19:25:15 <quintopia> hey, you can't downvote trash without an account, so you're just making the problem worse.
19:25:28 <\oren\> google shoudl kick quora off the results
19:25:47 <quintopia> also "cancerous" means "has cancer". cigarettes are not cancerous. they are carcinogenic.
19:26:19 <\oren\> tobacco plants can probably hav cancer
19:26:21 <quintopia> often quora has the best answer to the thing you want to know. it would be irresponsible for google to do that.
19:27:47 <quintopia> can you make one coherent argument as to why you despise it so
19:33:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:35:38 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
19:39:36 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
19:57:29 <\oren\> quintopia: quora wants me to make an account and thereby reveal by email address
19:58:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:58:11 <shachaf> I'm not going to reward Quora's scow behavior.
20:01:32 <\oren\> Let's make our own quora, with blackjack and hookers
20:03:02 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:03:26 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:15:42 <int-e> > sort "aptitude " == sort "update it"
20:16:20 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:16:43 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
20:18:59 <int-e> I'm now wondering whether that's a happy accident or intentional
20:31:06 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:32:51 <\oren\> if california secedes they'll probley changethe capital to Clintongrad
20:33:57 -!- erkin has joined.
20:37:46 <izabera> it will be the greatest advancement in telephone technologies ever
20:38:23 <izabera> a program that can predict the next digit
20:38:40 <izabera> and if it can, then this number is discarded
20:38:55 <izabera> to avoid giving people numbers like 555-123456
20:45:25 -!- augur has joined.
21:01:31 <zzo38> @-moz-document domain("quora.com") { .dialog { display: none !important; } } I put that extension in my computer to avoid the Quora problem but now it won't load at all and result 504 error instead, which also won't load
21:06:45 <Zarutian> quintopia: if there is something on quora then I just use an bugmenot account.
21:08:22 <zzo38> If CSS hacks don't work, you could also try User-Agent hacks.
21:30:58 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:37:25 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
21:37:46 -!- erkin has joined.
21:39:21 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:42:35 <shachaf> fizzie: is that what's stopping you from jamming it
21:43:08 <zzo38> Wikipedia says that some Japanese mahjong can use flowers as higher honors which do not form pairs, but it does not explain very well how that works, nor a citation.
21:48:47 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:48:55 -!- nycs has joined.
22:04:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:25:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:30:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51115&oldid=40047 * Marcsances * (+1274)
22:31:56 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:32:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51116&oldid=43570 * Marcsances * (+341) /* Randwork+ */
22:34:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51117&oldid=51116 * Marcsances * (+113)
22:39:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51118&oldid=51117 * Marcsances * (-98) /* Randwork# */
22:45:27 -!- krok_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:46:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51119&oldid=51118 * Marcsances * (+3) /* Randwork# */
22:53:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51120&oldid=51119 * Marcsances * (+80) /* External resources */
22:58:32 -!- Jafet has joined.
23:02:32 -!- boily has joined.
23:07:43 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
23:10:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:10:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
23:10:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:10:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
23:11:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:11:13 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
23:12:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
23:12:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:12:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51121&oldid=51120 * Marcsances * (+5) /* Randwork */
23:19:07 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
23:21:42 -!- ambrus has joined.
23:21:56 -!- ambrus has quit (Client Quit).
23:22:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:24:06 -!- tromp__ has joined.
23:24:06 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:24:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:25:40 <Sgeo> _11, cool! Although it's just an adaptation of someone else's work
23:26:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Randwork]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51122&oldid=51121 * Marcsances * (+87) And this is all. I'll be back in 5 more years.
23:37:24 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:44:01 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
23:44:44 -!- idris-bot has joined.
23:49:22 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:50:44 <oerjan> what's the PPCG etiquette on improving someone else's golfing? do i make my own post, or a comment?
23:52:12 <oerjan> . o O ( where's ais523 when you need him )
23:52:47 <oerjan> . o O ( where's anyone )
23:52:53 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
23:53:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:53:17 <oerjan> ais523 dragged me into PPCG by posting outright flattery
23:59:41 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).