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00:18:34 <boily> http://code-poetry.com/
00:18:37 <HackEgo> ppntat//Pen Pineapple Nutmeg Tamarind Apple Tangerine
00:19:17 * boily doesn't recall why nor how he `wisdommed that
00:20:32 <oerjan> you may been a bit fruity at the time
00:22:14 <boily> may have been. oranges taste good.
00:44:49 * oerjan settles on making a comment.
00:45:18 <oerjan> (after i already had almost finished the post. intuition can be so annoying.)
00:56:49 <boily> what are the smallest and largest fruits? I'm guessing the grape and watermelon.
00:58:42 * oerjan expects this to revolve around the exact definition of fruit, which he has little knowledge about.
01:05:02 <boily> pumpkins do count.
01:05:32 <oerjan> ""Giant pumpkins" are a large squash (within the group of common squash Cucurbita maxima) that can exceed 1 tonne in weight."
01:05:44 <oerjan> i think they've got watermelons beat.
01:06:58 <oerjan> "The record for the world's heaviest pumpkin, 2,624.6-pound (1,190.5 kg), was established in Belgium in 2016."
01:08:56 <oerjan> and there are berries much smaller than the usual grapes people eat, at least.
01:09:11 <oerjan> blueberries, to start with.
01:09:57 * oerjan is thinking of something norwegians call "krekling"
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01:16:35 <boily> if you count individual drupelets from an aggregate fruit as actual fruits, blackberries and raspberries.
01:35:36 <FireFly> <oerjan> what's the PPCG etiquette on improving someone else's golfing? do i make my own post, or a comment? ← usually comments, I believe
01:41:40 <_11> Sgeo: indeed, still very cool though :)
01:41:52 <_11> I am somewhat enlightened.
01:41:58 <_11> I don't know if in a good or bad way.
01:51:05 <boily> . o O ( is it possible to porthello _11? )
01:51:36 <shachaf> portobello 11 is possible, I think.
01:51:44 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_11
01:52:23 <boily> helloochaf. good suggestion.
01:52:54 <boily> it has music by FSOL! :D
02:02:39 <_11> porthello me, y'say? :)
02:02:45 <_11> what might that involve?
02:04:02 <oerjan> h_11o. are you possible to porthello?
02:04:32 <HackEgo> Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
02:09:19 <_11> Your idiosyncracies are fascinating.
02:09:25 <_11> I should stay here.
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02:44:12 <zzo38> I think in JavaScript generators there is actually two kind of monads; one kind is where the unit is "return yield" and the join is "yield" into "yield*", while other one is where the unit is "return" and the join is "return" into "return yield*". Is it?
02:45:14 <shachaf> What categories are the monads in?
02:47:25 <zzo38> I don't know? Impure category I guess.
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03:22:29 <oerjan> <_11> <Taneb IRL> I think you've just crashed the idris-bot. <-- fancy.
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04:55:38 <\oren\> I'm playing as Fascist Netherlands and now Spain's like "hey I'm joining Axis, here, Geert, take control of my 11 divisions!"
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05:12:15 <adu> hppavilion1!
05:12:42 <adu> omg today was so stressful
05:13:57 <adu> There was a lot of this: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png
05:19:31 <adu> hppavilion1: how was your day?
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05:28:28 <adu> hppavilion2: you incremented?
05:29:40 <adu> hppavilion2: so were you affected by the Amazon outage?
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05:31:10 <adu> hppavilion6: so were you affected by the Amazon outage?
05:31:41 <hppavilion6> adu: There was an online test I couldn't take
05:32:20 <adu> I told my wife that S3 was down, and she was like "is that why I can't get BuzzFeed?"
05:32:40 <adu> then when S3 was fixed, she said "BuzzFeed is back!"
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05:52:15 <zzo38> What kind of moral grounds?
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06:54:31 <rdococ> it's another version of hp
07:49:59 <\oren\> rdococ: apparently one that is aware of scourge on the minds of our youth, known as buzzfeed
08:28:10 <Jafet> is there real news?
08:32:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51123 * Quintopia * (+8422) code and questions about the spec
08:32:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51124&oldid=51123 * Quintopia * (+4)
08:33:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51125&oldid=51124 * Quintopia * (+17) /* A Python Implementation */
08:34:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51126&oldid=51125 * Quintopia * (+0) /* A Python Implementation */
08:34:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51127&oldid=51126 * Quintopia * (+1) /* A Python Implementation */
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08:43:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51128&oldid=51127 * Quintopia * (+258) /* A Python Implementation */
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09:03:07 <HackEgo> U+15A4 CANADIAN SYLLABICS LHA \ UTF-8: e1 96 a4 UTF-16BE: 15a4 Decimal: ᖤ \ ᖤ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
09:03:38 <\oren\> Jafet: DPRK News Service on Twitter is pretty good
09:05:25 <\oren\> but he might be gone tomorrow
09:10:20 <\oren\> example totally truthful news from DPRK: Interests of US commerce minister Wilbur Ross include hob-nobbing with emperors, whipping his slaves, bathing in money, laughing at orphans.
09:10:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jafetish * New user account
09:12:30 <\oren\> Chris Wallace: "It was one of the best speeches in that setting I've ever heard any president give."
09:22:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51129&oldid=51103 * Jafetish * (+202) /* Introductions */
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09:32:06 <int-e> . o O ( time is Marching on )
09:52:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51130 * Jafetish * (+5739) new language spec
09:55:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - truth1.gif]]": [[Truth machine]] in [[Trajedy]], run with input 1.
09:58:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - hello.gif]]": [[Hello, world!]] program in [[Trajedy]].
10:07:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - loop.gif]]": Infinite loop of three beacons in [[Trajedy]].
10:12:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51134&oldid=51130 * Jafetish * (+851) example programs
10:29:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51135&oldid=51134 * Jafetish * (-80) thumbs don't work; use full animations instead
10:34:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - enter edge.png]]"
10:35:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - enter corner.png]]"
10:36:00 <b_jonas> boily: the smallest fruits are traditionally Ribes berries.
10:36:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - no-edge.png]]"
10:37:40 <b_jonas> crowberry is a good guess, but ribes are somewhat smaller
10:39:14 <b_jonas> and a userfruit is bigger than a watermelon
10:43:05 <b_jonas> "<quintopia> also "cancerous" means "has cancer". cigarettes are not cancerous. they are carcinogenic." => oh great. now let's argue whether talking clothes-wearing animals in fantasy books should be called "anthropomorphic" or "anthropomimetic".
10:46:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51139&oldid=51135 * Jafetish * (+113) /* Semantics */
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10:55:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - hello - trace.png]]": Trace of [[Trajedy - hello.gif]].
10:56:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - loop - trace.png]]": Trace of [[Trajedy - loop.gif]].
10:56:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Trajedy - loop - trace.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51142&oldid=51141 * Jafetish * (+5)
10:57:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Trajedy - loop - trace.png]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51143&oldid=51142 * Jafetish * (+1)
10:57:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Trajedy - hello - trace.png]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51144&oldid=51140 * Jafetish * (+6)
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11:02:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - truth1 - trace.png]]": Trace of [[:File:Trajedy - truth1.gif]].
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11:08:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - cat - iter.png]]": One iteration of a [[cat program]] in [[Trajedy]].
11:18:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Jafetish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - truth1 - trace.png]]": crop bottom
11:20:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51148&oldid=51139 * Jafetish * (+291) /* Examples */ manual thumbnails
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11:37:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zero loop.png]]": Degenerate loop in [[Trajedy]] that travels zero distance.
11:38:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - corner gap.png]]": [[Trajedy]] allows single-point gaps in corners.
11:40:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - orthogonal setup.png]]"
11:41:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - simple unbounded.png]]": A [[Trajedy]] loop that enters an unbounded set of states.
11:41:28 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
11:41:42 <boily> we're in March already!
11:44:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51153&oldid=51148 * Jafetish * (+2688) add discussion sections
11:51:49 <Jafet> this may well be the single article with the most images on it
11:53:53 <boily> Jafellotish. are you using floating point or rational numbers to compute paths?
11:54:49 <Jafet> rational numbers, as it has no chance of storing memory with floating point only
11:55:03 <Jafet> only two more months until you can use maypoles?
11:58:29 <boily> mapoles mapoles mapoles ^^♪
12:00:57 <b_jonas> \oren\: also since your font is completionist, could you add the kanji 桂, which is used in the move notation of Shogi?
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13:05:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51154&oldid=51153 * Jafetish * (+154) link to interpreter
13:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51155&oldid=51154 * Jafetish * (+659) /* Memory */ possible building blocks
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15:10:45 <HackEgo> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
15:10:48 <HackEgo> cat: *: No such file or directory
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15:16:06 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hello_output_test.txt \ hw \ ibin \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ source \ src \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
15:16:12 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ shrug2 \ swatter \ useless
15:16:25 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access *: No such file or directory
15:16:36 <APic> `cat emoticons/flipbird
15:17:21 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat
15:17:48 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat
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15:42:18 <fizzie> That cat is an internal cat added by umlbox, I believe it's there to make the stdout of the executed program not look like a tty, so that they will behave in a more reasonable manner.
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15:47:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51156&oldid=51155 * Jafetish * (+1275) /* Memory */ found mechanism for unbounded stack
16:27:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51157&oldid=51156 * Jafetish * (+555) update lead; add Unicode notes
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16:41:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Push-down automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51158 * Jafetish * (+33) Redirected page to [[Push-down automaton]]
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17:26:40 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiFV6uJhbkY
17:27:02 <\oren\> Apparently Helsinki is ａｅｓｔｈｅｔｉｃ
17:32:24 <\oren\> the NRO is launching a spy satellite right now
17:32:25 <\oren\> http://www.ulalaunch.com/webcast.aspx
17:37:06 <Taneb> National Rifle Organisation?
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17:57:49 <\oren\> Taneb: National Reconaissance Office
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18:24:06 <HackEgo> xkcdwhatiflist 155: oerjan b_jonas Taneb
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18:42:45 <\oren\> https://saitoha.github.io/libsixel/
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23:05:25 <HackEgo> blæg//Blaeg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
23:05:58 <boily> `slwd blæg//sæaeæ\ææ
23:06:00 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 2: delimiter character is not a single-byte character
23:06:24 <boily> `slwd blæg//sa\aeaæa
23:06:29 <HackEgo> blæg//Blæg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
23:07:37 <HackEgo> 10344:2017-03-01 <boil̈y> slwd bl\xc3\xa6g//sa\\aea\xc3\xa6a \ 9531:2016-10-30 <oerjän> slwd bl\xc3\xa6g//s/b/B/ \ 7514:2016-04-22 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/blaeg wisdom/bl\xc3\xa6g
23:07:51 <HackEgo> boil̈y hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈]
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23:17:55 <HackEgo> 1/3:`words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi. \ syntactic sugar//Syntactic sugar causes semic
23:18:01 <HackEgo> 2/3:olon cancer. \ equal temperament//Equal temperament is just intonation that's evenly spaced. \ warranty//HACKEGO COMES WITHOUT WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AND IS UNFIT FOR ANY PURPOSE, INCLUDING THE PURPOSE OF BEING UNFIT FOR ANYTHING. Its warranty has expired. \ indentity function//Indentity function is the function that measures h
23:18:12 <HackEgo> 6930:2016-02-22 <b_jonäs> slashlearn syntactic sugar/Syntactic sugar causes semicolon cancer. \ 6929:2016-02-22 <b_jonäs> slashlearn syntactic sugar/Syntactic sugar causes semicolon cancer
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23:27:06 <wob_jonas> Lol. Someone just pointed out that this anniversary calendar tells you what anniversary there was on 2017-02-29: http://tudosnaptar.kfki.hu/historia/index.php?ev=2017&ho=2
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23:33:01 <erkin> It's in Hungarian.
23:33:19 <erkin> These are all old Hungarian scholars.
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00:16:32 <zzo38> Is there a such thing as a 2017-02-29? I don't think so?
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00:20:08 <oerjan> no, 2017 is not divisible by 4.
00:20:51 <zzo38> Yes it is what I thought
00:22:17 <HackEgo> February 2017 \ Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa \ 1 2 3 4 \ 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 \ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 \ 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 \ 26 27 28
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00:23:52 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe there is a 29th but they've just been keeping it a secret.
00:24:35 <HackEgo> the them//Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons.
00:25:19 <boily> the weather is conspirational tonight...
00:26:01 <lambdabot> ENVA 020020Z 13008KT CAVOK M04/M07 Q0988 RMK WIND 670FT 11008KT
00:28:05 <int-e> shachaf: meh, The Witless is getting tedious; 436+70 (still 11 lasers), but I'm missing something fairly big underground, I think.
00:28:27 <lambdabot> CYUL 020000Z 04005KT 5SM -RA BR BKN005 OVC020 05/04 A2920 RMK SF6SC2 SLP890
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00:32:07 <shachaf> int-e: Did you turn on the puzzle the person at the bottom is holding?
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00:36:41 <shachaf> I ended up seeing a spoiler about how to do that before I even got there.
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00:38:13 <shachaf> If you want I can tell you in what area you do that, I guess.
00:38:33 <int-e> not yet interested
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00:48:52 <adu> how are you?
00:56:51 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Thu Mar 2 01:56:45 2017
00:57:13 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Wed Mar 1 16:57:10 2017
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01:04:02 <boily> _11: h_11o. how's your second day here?
01:06:33 <_11> hiya boily
01:06:48 <_11> well I've been doing more esoteric type things in Rust
01:07:12 <_11> but I failed to trick the compiler into assuming some interface bounds :(
01:07:31 <_11> so overall, yeah, having fun
01:07:44 <_11> I'm a Taneb invention, hence my presence here
01:08:27 <boily> being Tanebvented is a great honour.
01:09:30 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:09:34 <_11> Ah, I'm normally _46 or _46bit.
01:09:43 <_11> _11 is a bit of a Stranger Things tribute.
01:09:49 <HackEgo> _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
01:10:06 <shachaf> public school means private school, right?
01:10:19 <_11> good lord, I don't know how to respond to that description
01:10:31 <_11> at least it doesn't claim I'm straight
01:11:32 <oerjan> . o O ( straight from public school )
01:14:15 <boily> on a scale from 1 to bonsaï, how many zebras would you fit in an amphitheatre?
01:14:41 <_11> is that an operating theatre for amputations?
01:15:02 <oerjan> a very amphiguous question
01:15:40 <_11> I suppose on many grounds I'd choose to call an amphitheatre filled while containing 0 zebras
01:16:37 <fungot> boily: i don't see enough of the math faculty, so it's missing the final " ( up)"
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01:37:39 <shachaf> int-e: I haven't jammed in a while because I haven't been rebooting to Windows.
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02:05:42 <HackEgo> comedogenic//comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic motion.
02:10:06 * Zarutian hands boily a 1600 metres of sturdy nylon rope (non-elastic), a mop, two hyped up bulldogs and a clown nose (purple)
02:11:19 * boily has a sudden urge to rob a bank...
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02:12:58 <zzo38> Have you ever stopped robbing banks?
02:16:05 <boily> are there practice banks where you can try out how it feels to perform a heist?
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02:28:39 <HackEgo> 3/3:ow indented source code is.
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03:42:19 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
03:42:31 <\oren\> POLAND WHAT THE FUKC R U DOIN
03:42:35 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/QKnMct.jpg
03:43:25 <\oren\> I didn't know it was even possible for this to happen
03:45:22 <\oren\> Poland annexed most of germany, then got trounced by USSR and lost their east half
03:45:26 <\oren\> then germany demanded the west half of poland
03:45:31 <\oren\> and poland, for some reason gave it to them despite russia backing them up
03:45:35 <\oren\> so now poland's territory consists of "germany, except berlin"
03:46:23 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa
03:47:43 <\oren\> poland has zero core states
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04:23:22 <sirnaysayer> then I can do CK2 - EU4 - VIC3 savegame conversions
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05:35:41 <\oren\> ok, time to get poland to be a democracy again
05:37:32 <\oren\> Yes. I'm playing as democratic Mussolini
05:40:12 <\oren\> ...and for some reason a communist insurrection in India
05:54:11 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
06:07:15 <\oren\> ok, if I guarantee the independence of Aghanistan I can start invading the USSR
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11:00:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - offset transforms.png]]": Some basic offset transforms in [[Trajedy]].
11:02:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51160&oldid=51157 * Jafetish * (+62) /* Storage */ add diagram
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12:58:05 <pledis> who heres fucking knows warosu
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14:27:53 <b_jonas> \oren\: add 桂 to your font
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14:51:05 <Zarutian> owh loardy! These people, these people they just make me so mad.
14:51:55 <Zarutian> They think they are doing the world good but they are just making it more bad
14:52:41 <Zarutian> With velhement rightousness they try to defend those acts but it just so sad
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14:55:17 <Zarutian> Usually ultra religious yet self-blaphemous they spew forward their hate blinded by false simplicity in face of complex proglems.
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17:30:19 <\oren\> b_jonas: it will be in the next release tongiht
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18:11:38 <HackEgo> d \ Yield: 6 Servings \ \ 5 ea Cloves \ 1 c Olive oil \ 1 ts Vanilla extract \ 1/4 ts Pepper \ 1/4 c Olive oil \ 1 tb Creme de carrots \ 2 c Cooked ribs \ Crumbled sausage: \ 2 tb Worcestershire sauce \ 1 ts Salt \ 1 ts Cinnamon \ 3/4 c Dijon mustard \ 1/2 ts Oregano \ 2 ts Sugar \ 1 ts Gelatin shortening \ 1 ts Ground cinnamon \
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18:46:18 <\oren\> do british people really say "er"?
18:47:19 <APic> Germans mostly say „Ääääh…“ or „Ääähmmm…“
18:47:38 <APic> \oren\: So where do You live?
18:48:03 <APic> Also: Is Amazonaws related to „S3“?
18:49:33 <int-e> shachaf: do you know whether the suicide booth (below the mountain at the water level) in The Witness does anything beyond completely resetting the game state to zero?
18:49:52 <shachaf> int-e: No, I haven't even used it once.
18:50:38 <shachaf> Last time I was playing I had one pillar left to solve.
18:50:53 <shachaf> I heard a rumor that it reset the game so I decided to finish everything else before doing it.
18:51:03 <int-e> left row, last one... so evil to combine reflection with a cylinder?
18:51:15 <int-e> it's safe to solve the pillar
18:51:44 <shachaf> Pillar? Column? I don't know.
18:52:05 <int-e> or hmm, I guess row is fine in this context... tricky term when applied in 3 dimensions.
18:52:23 <shachaf> Oh, that's what you meant.
18:52:37 <shachaf> Anyway there were many other puzzles left in the mountain.
18:52:38 <int-e> yes, I only realized the confusions after pressing the return key
18:53:33 <int-e> yeah, you know I haven't found them yet. (I have not played since last night)
18:53:50 <shachaf> Did you turn on the puzzle in the room before the water room yet?
18:54:50 <int-e> I have mostly kept myself busy with finding more bonus puzzles. Some of those are quite nasty, and I guess I'm missing some even more evil ones that are hiding in plain sight.
18:55:13 <shachaf> They're really all over the place, aren't they.
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18:56:51 <int-e> how much of the game would break if you shifted the Sun up by 5 degrees? :P
18:57:23 <shachaf> I think it would primarily be the desert area.
18:58:24 <int-e> you're forgetting about all the shadows.
18:58:43 <shachaf> OK, a bunch of things would break.
18:59:04 <shachaf> Unfortunately it's impossible to ask "did you find X yet?" without potentially giving spoilers.
18:59:55 <int-e> I'm really trying to keep these remarks quite general.
19:07:13 <shachaf> int-e: Did you figure out the shipwreck area?
19:07:19 <shachaf> I didn't solve that puzzle.
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19:10:55 <quintopia> i really need to play this game. the speedrun looked sick.
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19:29:11 <shachaf> Watching someone else play it before you play it is probably a bad idea.
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19:41:01 <int-e> shachaf: I figured out something there.
19:41:32 <shachaf> I assume it's a door, at least.
19:42:57 <shachaf> Then what? Bonus puzzles? Recording?
19:43:43 <int-e> (to both actually)
19:44:22 <int-e> I also don't know whether there's a 12th laser. 11 is such an odd number.
19:46:38 <shachaf> int-e: For some reason gur ynfg pbybe chmmyr va gur ryringbe gbbx zr n ybg ybatre gb fbyir guna gur fnzr pbybe chmmyr va gur svefg pbybe ebbz.
19:46:46 <shachaf> I didn't realize they were identical until much later.
19:48:22 <shachaf> I was probably color-exhausted by then.
19:48:49 <shachaf> Also I solved the entire sun area without figuring out the actual rule for the suns.
19:48:57 <shachaf> I mean the sun symbol area.
19:49:26 <shachaf> I only figured it out in the last major area of the game.
19:59:30 <int-e> that sounds worth than deriving a winding rule instead of color separation...
20:00:27 <shachaf> I mean, my rule wasn't exactly wrong, it was just incomplete.
20:00:27 <int-e> well, go clockwise around one color, counterclockwise around the other
20:01:08 <int-e> it wasn't very firm yet, but it's something that kind of works for two colors and is impossible to generalize to more.
20:01:15 <shachaf> I thought it was "Rnpu nern zhfg unir rvgure mreb be gjb fhaf bs n cnegvphyne pbybe va vg".
20:02:11 <int-e> right, that's a fair approximation... but I think you had to violate it in that area already? maybe not.
20:02:21 <shachaf> Actually maybe I figured it out before the final area, there were some other places where it was relevant.
20:03:01 <shachaf> Yes, you had to violate it, but I think I got lucky with those puzzles or something so I didn't think about it very much.
20:08:07 <shachaf> Apparently the ship puzzle is supposed to be one of the hardest.
20:08:25 <shachaf> The invisible symmetry puzzles are kind of annoying.
20:09:01 <shachaf> On the other hand it's hard to quantify how hard the bonus puzzles are.
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20:44:22 <zzo38> I made a fragment program to imitate a PC text mode with OpenGL. The same memory format is used too. (Blinking text and cursor are currently not implemented.)
20:46:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: but the text cursor is important! implement that
20:47:06 <b_jonas> and make sure it's controlled by the same virtual registers on the video card with the same format too
20:47:22 <b_jonas> then you can use this as part of a VGA emulator for a virtual machine
20:57:08 <zzo38> MegaZeux (which does not use the same memory format as PC text mode) uses a separate fragment program for the cursor. (I may have preferred to put it in the same program instead, but I am not sure which way is actually better.)
20:59:43 <zzo38> Implementing the cursor with a separate program means that you have to keep track of the colour of the cursor though.
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22:22:25 <fizzie> Blarg. For the last some months, whenever I restart Chromium, it automatically downloads the file 571_Planck_CMB_with_foreground_emission_layers.mov, apparently as part of restoring the session. I've got a dozen copies of it already.
22:22:41 <fizzie> I've tried to close all tabs one by one, but it still does the download whenever it starts.
22:29:15 <HackEgo> English has two cases, upper and lower. Upper case agrees with the verb in person and number.
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22:38:53 <\oren\> fizzie: use firefox instead
22:43:41 <b_jonas> fizzie: isn't there some command-line option to start chrome without attempting to restore the previous session?
22:44:04 <b_jonas> fizzie: failing that, just mv the files that store the info about the previous session
22:46:32 <b_jonas> Question. Are there fonts that have variant glyphs for the six letters "ABCDEF" that have the same width as new style digits, so you can write hexadecimal numbers fixed width with them?
22:47:25 <\oren\> new style digits == capital numbers?
22:47:27 <b_jonas> I mean, Knuth uses the convention of writing hexadecimal numbers with a monospaced font.
22:47:54 <zzo38> Actually I think is not necessary to keep track of the cursor colour separately; it can be done without.
22:47:57 <\oren\> I just write eveything in monospace
22:48:16 <\oren\> Including an essay once
22:48:21 <zzo38> Even if you do use a separate vertex program and fragment program for that purpose
22:48:22 <shachaf> abcdef is a terrible convention for hexadecimal anyway.
22:49:19 <zzo38> shachaf: As "ten-tek five", I think is how it is done? I am not sure
22:49:19 <b_jonas> \oren\: everything? I don't like that solution, because a good proportional width font can make text in latin and similar scripts more easier to read.
22:49:35 <\oren\> alfa bravo charlie delta echo foxtrot
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22:50:14 <b_jonas> shachaf: what's your favourite convention?
22:50:22 <shachaf> Uppercase letters are worse than lowercase letters, though.
22:50:36 <shachaf> I don't know many conventions. It doesn't matter because I'm going to keep using this one anyway.
22:50:37 <\oren\> I like 123456789:;<=>?
22:52:46 <\oren\> I alos like base 32 tho
22:52:47 <b_jonas> \oren\: that makes sense, but I don't really like that
22:53:04 <b_jonas> \oren\: base 32 written how?
22:53:11 <zzo38> Another way I have seen is to write the digits upside-down if they are more than eight
22:53:28 <\oren\> @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
22:54:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: what? upside down? which digits? how does that work?
22:55:03 <b_jonas> wouldn't that make 6 and 9 look the same?
22:55:50 <\oren\> b_jonas: I think he means that 9 would be followed by upside down 5, 4, 3 and 2
22:57:01 <\oren\> so something like 123456789Sh↋↊T
22:58:57 <b_jonas> \oren\: that way it doesn't look particularly good to me. digits mightbe hard to distinguish, esp in handwriting.
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23:29:26 <fizzie> b_jonas: \oren\: I assumed it would've been 012345678(7654321) where the part in () was upside-down.
23:30:36 <shachaf> How do you distinguish 3 from (3)?
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23:39:10 <zzo38> fizzie: Yes I think that is how they worked
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23:41:31 <oerjan> digital clock in game of life http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/111932
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00:07:27 <fizzie> shachaf: The other looks like an ℇ.
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01:58:03 <boily> the more you golf, the less you.
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02:00:46 * boily wraps fungot in a Norwegian flag an uses him as an oerjan ersatz
02:00:46 <fungot> boily: that's awesome. i don't even understand what's there
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02:01:09 <oerjan> not even fungot understands me.
02:01:10 <fungot> oerjan: ( don't tell it to scan a slide at 1200dpi, a helpful message pops up that for slides it's better to do
02:05:39 <HackEgo> Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke.
02:07:25 <oerjan> Jafet: i note that the second kind of Trajedy transform can actually expand lengths (without ?). are you sure these aren't invertible if used only on say x<1/2 ?
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02:13:00 <Jafet> yes I'm very sure, I tried inverting that for, like, five minutes
02:15:00 <Jafet> hmm, I was trying to extend the path using mirrors
02:16:04 <oerjan> oh, that could also work...
02:16:36 <oerjan> Jafet: note that what i'm saying is, you only need it to be invertible on a small subset of the domain/range
02:17:07 <oerjan> because there's no reason you need to use the whole (0,1) interval.
02:17:43 <oerjan> mirrors _should_ work for that.
02:18:49 <oerjan> in fact, you don't even need that restriction, because you can put the mirror somewhere close to the beacon so that the "beam" has been compressed there.
02:19:37 <Jafet> or use a sheet of mirrors to catch everything
02:19:49 <oerjan> well, then you get gaps.
02:20:07 <oerjan> which i guess you can handle in a different way.
02:20:12 <Jafet> I haven't worked out what happens to the offset, though
02:20:30 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure you can add whatever offset you want?
02:21:40 <oerjan> when i thought about this a while ago, i found it convenient to think of a mirror not as changing the path, but as leading you into the mirror universe
02:23:39 <Jafet> that does sound convenient
02:24:29 <Jafet> wait, is the mirror universe flipped perpendicularly to the mirror?
02:26:46 <oerjan> things are exactly where they'd look like they were if you look into a mirror.
02:28:56 <oerjan> hm no, that's not right
02:28:57 <Jafet> trying to visualise this is causing my brain to flip instead
02:30:43 <oerjan> and the mirror universe is, hm
02:32:44 <oerjan> well, it should be the transposed grid.
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02:34:41 <oerjan> i think i'm thinking wrong, somehow.
02:35:02 <Jafet> well, it doesn't seem that convenient to me
02:35:19 <Jafet> it's just flipping the coordinates?
02:35:37 <oerjan> well it means you can draw them on top of each other, keeping the paths straight
02:36:56 <oerjan> unfortunately i have nothing very good to draw with...
02:43:00 <Jafet> going back to the c=0 idea, if x=p/q then x becomes bp/(aq+p) mod 1
02:43:14 <Jafet> I didn't try to use this device because it looked more complicated
02:47:32 <oerjan> ah i think i've got it
02:48:24 <oerjan> er ignore the mirror in the last one
02:49:55 <oerjan> i _put_ a mirror there, then flip the Bs around it
02:51:14 <oerjan> and then the ? is unnecessary because the second B gets left behind as you enter the "mirror universe".
02:51:52 <oerjan> gah connection seems flaky
02:52:12 <Jafet> sorry, was trying it out
02:53:23 <Jafet> looks like it works
02:54:08 <Jafet> I'll try to update the example code
02:54:31 <oerjan> i think Trajedy probably has all the power of a pushdown automaton, but i also have great doubts about TC-ness.
02:54:45 <Jafet> there's also the ? used to merge multiple paths, which I didn't mention, but there should also be a workaround for that
02:55:24 <oerjan> it feels like in some sense it _shouldn't_ be possible to extract data compressed into it in this way in any substantially different order than FIFO.
02:56:28 <Jafet> doesn't the same limitation apply to befunge?
02:57:09 <Jafet> the wiki page only lists fifo stack commands
02:57:44 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDPTmCWKZ4
02:58:00 <oerjan> quite possibly, i don't think befunge is TC with limited cell size and no extensions.
02:58:17 <oerjan> unless there's some way to access bottom of stack or the like.
02:58:27 <Jafet> oh nevermind, it has unbounded integers
02:58:37 <\oren\> ᖎᖏᖐᖑᖒᖓᖔᖕᖖᖠᖡᖢᖣᖤᖥᖦ桂 are the characters I added
02:58:39 <Jafet> (or I guess some implementations do)
02:58:54 <\oren\> support for Inuktitut should now be complete
02:59:13 <fizzie> oerjan: '98 has that stack of stacks, and has some manipulation commands that might be relevant.
03:00:04 <fizzie> oerjan: In particular, you can move elements both directions between top-of-stack-stack and second-of-stack-stack, which might make a workable tape.
03:00:31 <fizzie> "The u "Stack under Stack" instruction pops a count and transfers that many cells from the SOSS to the TOSS. It transfers these cells in a pop-push loop. In other words, the order is not preserved during transfer, it is reversed. If count is negative, |count| cells are transferred (similarly in a pop-push loop) from the TOSS to the SOSS."
03:01:47 <oerjan> i'm sure some people in this community must have discussed this previously. in fact the stack stack thing rings a vague bell.
03:02:12 <fizzie> (Befunge-93 is I guess uncontroversially sub-TC.)
03:06:53 <fizzie> Since there's implicit infinite 0s at the bottom of every stack, I think you can do a trivial brainfuck (infinite on both ends) to Funge-98 translation with some setup code, +- to "1+" and "1-", <> to "1u" and "01-u", ., to ,~ and [] to ":!#v_" and ":#v_" with suitably placed >s and <s on all the other rows.
03:09:54 <b_jonas> \oren\: good, thanks. TODO self: check if all other characters used for Shogi move abbreviated notation are already in
03:15:01 <\oren\> this song has such cheezie lyrics
03:16:27 <Jafet> maybe I should learn vim for programming in this language, as emacs removes trailing whitespace
03:18:01 <\oren\> also that is totally ass of emacs
03:18:02 <Jafet> does nano have whitespace-mode for showing the trailing spaces?
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03:18:58 <\oren\> Jafet: you'd need to make your syntax highlighting scheme do that
03:19:11 <\oren\> but that's relatively simple
03:19:45 <\oren\> the default highlighting for C makes trailing space green
03:21:03 <Jafet> well, the emacs behaviour is sensible for every other language, so I don't fault it
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03:26:55 <Jafet> heh, there is an alternative way to merge multiple streams, which also relies on the 2× magnification
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03:36:10 <Jafet> also, unicode seems to be missing left-then-down (and left-then-up) arrows
03:36:58 <Jafet> the other six combinations are U+21B0 to U+21B5, but these two are absent
03:39:01 <zzo38> Do other characters sets have such arrows? If so, which one?
03:41:07 <Jafet> it's just odd that there are logically eight possible corner arrows, but only six are in the Arrows block
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03:45:54 <Jafet> oh, they are at 2B10-2B11
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03:48:30 <\oren\> wait. why did I draw some of those curved and some cornered
03:48:54 <HackEgo> U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b4 UTF-16BE: 2934 Decimal: ⤴ \ ⤴ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b5 UTF-16BE: 2935 Decimal: ⤵ \ ⤵ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \
03:49:10 <HackEgo> U+21B0 UPWARDS ARROW WITH TIP LEFTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 86 b0 UTF-16BE: 21b0 Decimal: ↰ \ ↰ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+21B1 UPWARDS ARROW WITH TIP RIGHTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 86 b1 UTF-16BE: 21b1 Decimal: ↱ \ ↱ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+21B2 DOWNWARDS ARROW WI
03:49:31 <HackEgo> U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b4 UTF-16BE: 2934 Decimal: ⤴ \ ⤴ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 a4 b5 UTF-16BE: 2935 Decimal: ⤵ \ ⤵ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \
03:50:00 <\oren\> `` unicode CURVING | grep U+
03:50:01 <HackEgo> U+2934 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING UPWARDS \ U+2935 ARROW POINTING RIGHTWARDS THEN CURVING DOWNWARDS \ U+2936 ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING LEFTWARDS \ U+2937 ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING RIGHTWARDS
03:50:25 <\oren\> Jafet: looks like there are only 4 curved arrows
03:52:03 <Jafet> > text $ "\x2B10\x2B11" ++ ['\x21B0'..'\x21B5']
03:52:44 <\oren\> those are the ones I drew with corners and not curves
03:53:48 <\oren\> > text $ ['\x2BA0'..'\x2BA7']
03:54:03 <\oren\> I havent drawn those?! what a disgrace
03:55:07 <Jafet> neither has this font, at any rate
03:55:49 <HackEgo> U+2BA0 DOWNWARDS TRIANGLE-HEADED ARROW WITH LONG TIP LEFTWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ae a0 UTF-16BE: 2ba0 Decimal: ⮠ \ ⮠ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
03:55:51 <Jafet> oddly, ↲ and ↵ are similar, but none of the others are
03:56:20 <oerjan> well, the ones \oren\ texted.
03:56:21 <Jafet> so one is still missing (RIGHTWARDS THEN … UPWARDS, as it turns out)
03:57:05 <\oren\> but we for some reason hav ↯
03:58:17 <\oren\> ...but it isnt in my font demo. odd
03:58:45 <HackEgo> U+2B0E RIGHTWARDS ARROW WITH TIP DOWNWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ac 8e UTF-16BE: 2b0e Decimal: ⬎ \ ⬎ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2B0F RIGHTWARDS ARROW WITH TIP UPWARDS \ UTF-8: e2 ac 8f UTF-16BE: 2b0f Decimal: ⬏ \ ⬏ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2B10 LEFTWARDS ARR
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04:47:25 <zzo38> This is the fragment program I made up to work like a PC text mode: http://sprunge.us/ePXg
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05:29:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - magnify with skip.png]]"
05:29:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - magnify with mirror.png]]"
05:31:13 <zzo38> I think V8 JavaScript has a problem; %TypedArray%.length is zero, even though it is supposed to be three.
05:48:33 <zzo38> It is an object which is not directly exposed in a global variable, but you can write Object.getPrototypeOf(Int8Array.prototype).constructor in order to get that object. (That object is also a function, although calling it is an error.)
05:50:13 <shachaf> Why is it supposed to be three?
05:50:25 <zzo38> The specification says it is supposed to be three.
05:51:39 <zzo38> (I am not sure why that is necessary; it can't be called, so there shouldn't be much point in it having any value at all, but that is what it is.)
05:53:08 <shachaf> Oh, right, I remember this.
05:53:47 <shachaf> You talked about it before.
05:56:08 <zzo38> I found that V8 and Mozilla both give errors, but the error message is different. Mozilla gives "%TypedArray% calling/constructing not implemented yet" (as if they would ever implement it; it is not clear what it would do if it was implemented), while V8 gives "Abstract class TypedArray not directly constructable".
05:58:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - merge device.png]]"
06:07:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51164&oldid=51160 * Jafetish * (+1630) add mirror magnification device by [[User:Oerjan]]
06:09:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51165&oldid=51164 * Jafetish * (+1) /* Memory */ fix link
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06:21:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Jafetish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge device.png]]": previous version was mislabeled
06:29:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51167&oldid=51165 * Jafetish * (+99) author and pronunciation in lead
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07:34:07 <Jafet> the wiki really needs a category for languages like http://esolangs.org/wiki/CUTLASS
07:34:14 <Jafet> (and BANCStar, of course)
07:42:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51168&oldid=47041 * Jafetish * (-11) move to new category, [[Category:Enterprise languages]]
07:42:58 <oerjan> Jafet: um, see Esolang:Policy
07:44:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51169&oldid=51168 * Jafetish * (+11) Undo revision 51168 by [[Special:Contributions/Jafetish|Jafetish]] ([[User talk:Jafetish|talk]])
07:46:35 <Jafet> also, has anyone checked whether this CUTLASS language is actually esoteric
07:49:37 <Jafet> well we can't remove the article, as wikipedia links to it
07:52:46 <Jafet> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3590557_The_role_of_CUTLASS_in_software_reliability
07:52:50 <Jafet> “Conference Paper · November 1989 with 3 Reads”
07:53:09 <Jafet> it's obscure, at least
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08:01:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CUTLASS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51170&oldid=51169 * Jafetish * (+168) add acronym expansion
08:03:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51171&oldid=47243 * Jafetish * (+254) /* Enterprise languages */ new section
08:09:29 <\oren\> Why the fuck do my ukrainian generals have names like Lucas Brown
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08:10:07 <Jafet> englishmen following the example of eugene of savoy
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11:38:35 <HackEgo> fish//Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it.
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14:00:03 <int-e> shachaf: what do you think when seeing this picture, https://neusprech.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/img_1255-e1478263773140-768x447.jpg
14:34:07 <int-e> shachaf: regarding your other question, I think I had even missed the door on the ship wreck. I left it unsolved.
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15:36:57 * Zarutian is thinking about funding a country and callign it Anonymous Proxy just to confuse people
15:45:23 <Jafet> @tell oerjan trajedy isn't just a pushdown automaton, it can also simulate 3D printers: https://imgur.com/a/SntRM
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16:09:51 <b_jonas> I'm trying to understand some older obfuscated program I wrote, because I want to modify it, but have it still look nice.
16:10:11 <b_jonas> I have to re-understand how it works, which is hard, because it's obfuscated.
16:13:33 <rdococ> how about a language that experiences issues with relativity?
16:14:04 <rdococ> one thread thinks x changed to 3 at the same time as y changing to 5, but the other thread disagrees :p
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16:31:10 <Jafet> i.e. every multi-core CPU since the last decade
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17:00:12 <ais523> I vaguely remember that Java 8 was controversial, but I can't remember why
17:00:28 <ais523> now the issue's come up at work and I'm having trouble wording a web search to find out why
17:01:06 <b_jonas> ais523: sorry, I don't follow Java
17:01:27 <ais523> meanwhile I'm considering getting my new esolang (actually, esolang family) up on Esolang
17:01:35 <ais523> now I've worked out the right level of abstraction to present it at
17:01:58 <ais523> I've kind-of sort-of proved it TC in my head? the problem is it has an annoying tendency to be reversible, which means that the usual translations don't work
17:02:10 <ais523> because you need to figure out where the bitbucket comes from
17:02:10 <b_jonas> I'm currently trying to modify an older esoteric program I have, to add new functionality but still keep it nice
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17:02:26 <b_jonas> it would be easy to add the new function non-obfuscated
17:02:43 <b_jonas> but I think I can hide the new functionality in the existing obfu code so it doesn't disrupt the beauty
17:02:47 <ais523> is the program meant to be obfuscated?
17:02:55 <ais523> also, is it written in an esolang, or is it obfuscated in other ways?
17:03:01 <b_jonas> I want to submit the result to Golf SE
17:03:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51172&oldid=51088 * Ais523 * (+16) /* C */ +[[Chaingate]]
17:03:57 <ais523> just editing in a link so that I can create the article and it won't be orphaned
17:07:31 <pixels> is there a language list of languages that aren't effectively "brainfuck, but"
17:08:02 <b_jonas> pixels: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives ?
17:09:01 <pixels> what is the opposite of that list? (list of all languages not on that list)
17:10:01 <b_jonas> pixels: I don't think we have one prepared directly
17:11:07 <fizzie> ais523: I think the lambdas were a little controversial.
17:11:30 <ais523> to be fair, a list of brainfuck-unrelated languages might be useful
17:11:40 <ais523> however brainfuck derivatives are less than half the wiki, IIRC
17:11:48 <ais523> despite what you might think looking at it
17:12:20 <pixels> yeah clicking random page only gives me one every now and then
17:14:33 <ais523> I just noticed [[Category:Reversible computing]] is missing from the categorisation page
17:14:38 <ais523> we should make sure that thing's up to date
17:15:08 <ais523> also, wow, Chaingate has ten different categories, plus an eleventh that doesn't exist yet but might be worth suggesting
17:22:00 <b_jonas> if anyone can figure out what the right year number category is for MMIX, feel free to edit it
17:22:17 <b_jonas> it wasn't made instantly, and I'm not sure what year counts as its birth
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17:29:54 <ais523> b_jonas: first time a specification was available to the public, even if it's a specification of an older version
17:32:42 <ais523> `unicode ANGLE BRACKET
17:32:44 <HackEgo> U+2329 LEFT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 8c a9 UTF-16BE: 2329 Decimal: 〈 \ 〈 \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ Decomposition: 3008 \ \ U+232A RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 8c aa UTF-16BE: 232a Decimal: 〉 \ 〉 \ Category: Pe (Punctuation, Close) \ Bidi: ON (O
17:34:33 <ais523> I guess I'm still in a CS-y mood, I wanted proper tuple constructors in my documentation rather than having to resort to some other sort of bracket
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17:42:50 <shachaf> int-e: Like I said, they're everywhere.
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18:31:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Chaingate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51173 * Ais523 * (+7949) new language family
18:31:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51174&oldid=50446 * Ais523 * (+15) +[[Chaingate]]
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18:53:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MMIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51175&oldid=50892 * B jonas * (+0)
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19:20:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Chaingate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51176&oldid=51173 * Ais523 * (-2) I implemented it while writing the article, but forgot to change the category
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20:03:42 <wob_jonas> ais523: about Chaingate, I don't understand the sentence "the ability to make finitely many irreversible changes that some fs have doesn't change the computational class of the language because you could just start executing after those have happened", because it might not be computable how many of those irreversible changes will actually happen
20:05:15 <wob_jonas> ais523: also, where you write "0 exclusive to n inclusive" inside the defn of Free Chaingate, is that deliberate, or did you mean "0 inclusive to n exclusive"?
20:05:17 <ais523> I don't think it can make it from sub-TC to TC
20:06:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: it's possible that something like that still works, and the whole definition is unclear since you don't have inputs and TC would require inputs
20:06:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Chaingate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51177&oldid=51176 * Ais523 * (+0) /* Free Chaingate */ fix typo that rather changed the meaning
20:06:12 <wob_jonas> but the explanation is unclear as is
20:06:43 <ais523> if I had to be mathematically rigorous in esolang descriptions on the wiki
20:06:46 <ais523> they'd never get posted :-(
20:06:50 <ais523> I've been putting this one off as it is
20:07:26 <wob_jonas> also, this language description reminds me to Incident
20:07:39 <ais523> the language is inspired by Incident, also Malbolge
20:07:54 <ais523> it's more elegant than Incident though because you don't need a stack for every command
20:08:05 <ais523> and more elegant than Malbolge because the encryption does the data storage, you don't need a separate memory
20:08:09 <wob_jonas> so Free Chaingate doesn't have values that never wrap around?
20:08:15 <ais523> (not that Malbolge wass intended to be particularly elegant)
20:08:18 <ais523> and it does, you set n to infinity
20:09:34 <ais523> the language is clearly sub-TC if n is always finite
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20:10:10 <wob_jonas> so you're hoping that this becomes TC by incrementing bigints, sort of like 3SP?
20:11:33 <ais523> actually I'm pretty sure I can store data correctly, control flow is the only real issue
20:11:43 <ais523> it'd be trivial if not for Free Chaingate being reversible
20:11:59 <ais523> which tends to screw with your control flow quite badly because you need a bitbucket
20:12:21 <ais523> my current plan is to have two copies of each counter, and use the second one to undo the changes the first one made
20:12:33 <ais523> shachaf: I got shouted at in the past for trying to get #esoteric excited about Hashlife
20:12:37 <ais523> on the basis that it was old news
20:12:42 <ais523> it is definitely something worth praising though
20:13:05 <shachaf> Since when does #esoteric care about things being old news?
20:13:23 <shachaf> This channel spends most of its time gazing at its historical navel.
20:13:26 <ais523> I guess it did back then?
20:13:41 <ais523> this channel has changed dominant topic repeatedly, I think
20:13:58 <ais523> its typical topics nowadays are fairly unobjectionable, but also a fairly long way from the actual subject of the channel
20:14:28 <wob_jonas> gazing your hitsorical navel... hmm, have you bought a Nintendi Switch yet?
20:14:49 <shachaf> No, I've never had a Nintendo device.
20:14:54 <shachaf> Anyway the point is it's a pretty nifty algorithm.
20:18:08 <shachaf> If I like Hashlife what else would I like?
20:18:34 <ais523> !quote ais523.*free will
20:18:36 <shachaf> There should be an Amazon-style recommendation program for papers.
20:18:39 <ais523> `quote ais523.*free will
20:18:41 <HackEgo> 717) <ais523> and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will
20:19:27 <ais523> colors as in Life has two, live and dead
20:19:35 <ais523> if you have more than two making them different colors is normally simplest
20:19:53 <shachaf> Do you mean that the third dimension is color or that it's in 3D space and there are also colors?
20:19:58 <ais523> as for free will, the idea is that there's a human controlling the state transitions that infvolve a particular color
20:20:06 <ais523> it's in 3D space, and there are colors=states
20:20:40 <shachaf> I'm not sure exactly how free will behaves but it seems problematic.
20:21:18 <shachaf> (Or 1D? Presumably there's a 1D hashlife?)
20:21:23 <wob_jonas> there's also three-color Game of Life, where cells are dead, red, or blue. In each step, if a dead cell is surrounded by exactly three non-dead cells, then it becomes the color of the majority of those three; and if a live cell has less than two or more than three non-dead neighbors then it dies, otherwise cells don't change state.
20:21:58 <wob_jonas> Game of Life is a factor of three-color Game of Life in the sense that if you take a three-color Game of Life process and map red and blue to live, then you get a valid Game of Life process.
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20:23:30 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
20:23:46 <wob_jonas> hmm, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Game_of_Life says "discovery of the Gemini pattern" which looks wrong to me
20:24:35 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
20:27:43 <zzo38> Why sometimes the video is mixed up? The phase of the picture changes sometimes, and sometimes make it fuzzy. What causes that?
20:28:13 <zzo38> The video signal displayed on the computer screen
20:28:21 <wob_jonas> I'm not sending you video, this is a text irc channel
20:28:51 <wob_jonas> um, interference in the VGA cable because it's too long or too close to power cables usually
20:29:19 <wob_jonas> other possible causes are video chipset problems and monitor problems and dodgy cable
20:29:58 <wob_jonas> but VGA cable is the most frequent problem, and the good fix is to use monitor with DVI or HDMI or whatever this fancy even newer digital connection instead
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20:57:11 <moony> > let a = a + 1; a
20:57:14 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
20:57:44 <lambdabot> <no location info>: error: not an expression: ‘let a = a + 1’
20:58:09 <moony> > let { a = a + 1; } in a
20:58:10 <wob_jonas> or maybe you want do { let a = a + 1; a }
20:58:31 <wob_jonas> or just { let a = a + 1; a } but in Rust instead of haskell
20:58:35 <moony> but...i thought mueval was based on lambdabot? now lambdabot is based on mueval?
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20:59:10 <wob_jonas> moony: both are based on each other. lazy recursion. always terminates.
21:01:44 <moony> > [1..] # demoing for someone
21:01:48 <lambdabot> with ‘Data.Tagged.Tagged b0 (Identity b0)
21:02:01 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,...
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23:57:57 <lambdabot> Jafet said 8h 12m 33s ago: trajedy isn't just a pushdown automaton, it can also simulate 3D printers: https://imgur.com/a/SntRM
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00:15:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jebscript * New user account
00:20:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51178&oldid=51171 * Oerjan * (+147) /* Enterprise languages */
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00:48:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Chaingate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51179 * Oerjan * (+608) Doubt about the argument for Free Chaingate's universality
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00:52:32 <int-e> > map succ "lnnmx" -- demonstrating a comment
00:53:46 <shachaf> int-e: Also with that picture you're looking from too up-close, it won't work.
00:54:00 <shachaf> You need to move farther back like with the wheelbarrow.
00:54:37 <int-e> that one was annoying
00:54:59 <int-e> I also want direction indicators on cables
00:55:37 <shachaf> But presumably you've solved nearly all the cables by now.
00:55:54 <int-e> I did get into the ship wreck room at least
00:56:16 <int-e> I had forgotten about a rule, and I think I got lucky.
00:56:30 <shachaf> What's in there? Cinema key?
00:56:41 <int-e> yeah, one cinema key
00:57:12 <int-e> but no real progress
00:57:32 <int-e> I found a secondary use for a laser
01:01:03 <int-e> I tried to glean hints from the discarded monitors but that wasn't fruitful either
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01:19:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51180&oldid=51129 * Jebscript * (+228)
01:20:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jebscript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51181 * Jebscript * (+772) Created page with "'''Jebscript''' (also known as "'''Jebscript'''!") Is a programming language based on former governor of Florida Jeb Bush. Its file extensions are '''.je''' and '''.jeb''' ==..."
01:21:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jebscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51182&oldid=51181 * Jebscript * (+1)
01:24:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jebscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51183&oldid=51182 * Jebscript * (+35)
01:24:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jebscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51184&oldid=51183 * Jebscript * (+13)
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02:03:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Jebscript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51185 * Jebscript * (+32) Created page with "== My language: [[Jebscript]] =="
02:08:00 <oerjan> oh, b_jonas_ worried about the same thing
02:19:51 <shachaf> 00:22 <shachaf> https://blog.google/products/search/improvements-searching-special-characters-programming-languages/
02:19:54 <shachaf> 00:22 <shachaf> Google Search adds lens support
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03:35:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Pixels * New user account
03:37:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51186&oldid=51180 * Pixels * (+179) added the introduction thingy
03:38:12 * oerjan keeps getting surprised by people who manage to get to it without getting caught in the filter first
03:38:43 <shachaf> is hashlife too old news to ask questions about it in here twh
03:39:09 <oerjan> it's been hashed out long ago
03:39:16 <Jafet> just clear the channel's memo cache hth
03:39:34 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `tmp/paste': Is a directory
03:39:57 <oerjan> i guess we keep the pastes.
04:05:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51187 * Pixels * (+1992) create page
04:06:01 <HackEgo> 1/2:örjan//Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters. \ yeeeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeeeesh. \ nundrum//A nundrum is the categorical dual of a conundrum: a problem whose solution is useless. \ study//A study is mostly useless until backed up by further studies. See studies. \ le
04:06:05 <HackEgo> 2/2:m//Stanisław Lem was a Polish logician who discovered the law of excluded middle.
04:06:24 <HackEgo> Studies show lots of things. Nobody reads them, though. Also: this study contradicts this other study. These two studies agree, but were secretly paid for by the same company.
04:24:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51188&oldid=51187 * Pixels * (+15) sudden decision to change the spec just for aesthetic reasons
04:25:09 <HackEgo> 1/3:893) <ais523> in Smalltalk, as in Feather, in order to do I/O, you must first create the universe <Sgeo> ais523, it seems quite capable of I/O... GUI is a form of I/O <ais523> Sgeo: yeah exactly <ais523> where does the GUI come from? <ais523> it's written in Smalltalk, clearly <ais523> and how does the GUI do its I/O? <ais523> i
04:25:11 <HackEgo> 2/3:f you think about the issue for too long, you end up inventing Feather \ 869) <kmc> what is the linux equivalent of the magical purple light which makes things glow if they have been involved in a crime <elliott> kmc: nmap?? \ 1136) <shachaf> i'm from space.........chu space \ 592) <ais523> Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to
04:25:13 <HackEgo> 3/3:elliott and not enough to my HP \ 812) <fizzie> I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train!
04:28:10 <oerjan> pixels: you should clearly do an i ching reading to ask about the proper feng shui for this language
04:32:55 <oerjan> also it needs some control flow.
04:33:27 <pixels> yeah i'm working on that
04:36:06 <Jafet> unicode has 387 -grams
04:37:15 <Jafet> I wouldn't put hexagrams, tetragrams and hieroglyphs in the same language though
04:38:43 <Jafet> uh /usr/bin/unicode reports U+009F as a -gram for some reason
04:39:06 <shachaf> u009F APPLICATION PROGRAM COMMAND []
04:39:13 <pixels> application pro*gram* command
04:39:49 <Jafet> ok, that can be a language extension for writing application programs
04:41:12 <pixels> i'll probably exhaust the pentagrams for language extensions first :P
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04:52:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51189&oldid=51188 * Pixels * (+100) clarify on increase and decrease behavior with empty stack
05:16:55 <shachaf> Taneb: someone named nvd just joined another channel
05:33:51 <shachaf> "The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language."
05:34:10 <shachaf> Attributed to Knuth, but not verified.
05:55:14 <shachaf> is ais523 the only person here who's excited about Hashlife?
05:57:05 <zzo38> What does "Hashlife" mean?
05:57:34 <shachaf> Bill Gosper's algorithm for computing the game of life efficiently described in https://www.lri.fr/~filliatr/m1/gol/gosper-84.pdf
05:59:01 <shachaf> Do you like the game of life?
06:05:21 <zzo38> Yes but I did not read that yet
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07:23:04 <zzo38> What is the ISO 646 for Esperanto?
07:31:47 <oerjan> i think i've seen eo, don't know if it's ISO 646
07:34:07 <izabera> some youtube-dl developer thought it was useful to add an option to download ads
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07:55:40 <pixels> managed to actually get control flow working and wrote a fully functioning cat program (only 7 characters long too!)
07:56:22 <pixels> or well, cat at newline since i dont have an end of file check but
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08:25:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51190&oldid=51189 * Pixels * (+2178) added flow control n stuff! woo
08:29:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51191&oldid=51190 * Pixels * (+164) add echo program to examples
08:29:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51192&oldid=51191 * Pixels * (-1) /* Example programs */
08:41:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51193&oldid=51192 * Pixels * (+105) implementations section! now everyone can use my terrible code
08:43:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A-gram]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51194&oldid=51193 * Pixels * (+0) fix the greater than and the lesser than instruction being the exact same
08:46:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51195&oldid=51172 * Pixels * (+20) /* A */ i think the language is works enough to be added?
08:48:30 <Jafet> izabera: it's marked “experimental”, so presumably it has important scientific value
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11:31:30 <rdococ> how am I meant to safely cure boron poisoning?
11:49:45 <\oren\> hooray, i unlocked holy wars!
11:49:47 <\oren\> Casus Belli: "They are accursed infidels!"
11:54:16 <rdococ> Everyone knows a football is a ball made of feet.
11:54:24 <HackEgo> A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters.
11:54:39 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
11:55:38 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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12:04:55 <HackEgo> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, and villages in Norway. Taneb invented it.
12:05:49 <int-e> `` grep -r Taneb wisdom | wc -l
12:06:00 <int-e> `` grep -r oerjan wisdom | wc -l
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12:47:07 <lambdabot> KROC 041207Z 34015G19KT 6SM -SN FEW025 BKN038 OVC070 M08/M13 A3055 RMK AO2 T10831133 PNO $
12:56:32 <int-e> maybe "precipation not observed", to fit the acronym.
12:57:13 <boily> int-ello. “PNO: precipitation amount not available;” according to http://www.met.tamu.edu/class/metar/quick-metar.html .
12:57:22 <shachaf> int-e: I jammed a bit more today. I got to a tricky part that requires you to be fast.
13:00:39 <int-e> shachaf: wires, I was wondering about the wire(s) running from the bottom of the mountain to the top (though it's impossible to be sure, but it's certainly suggested).
13:01:29 <lambdabot> EGLL 041250Z AUTO 20012KT 170V250 9999 BKN033 11/04 Q0989 NOSIG
13:01:31 <int-e> the one at the bottom, no.
13:02:02 <int-e> if I had I probably wouldn't be wondering :P
13:02:17 <shachaf> So did you track the wire?
13:03:30 <int-e> well there's that stupid box
13:12:45 <HackEgo> Boron (B) is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
13:13:07 <HackEgo> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
13:13:27 <rdococ> `le//rn football/A football is a ball made of feet.
13:13:28 <HackEgo> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
13:13:32 <rdococ> `le//rn football//A football is a ball made of feet.
13:13:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'football': A football is a ball made of feet.
13:14:26 <rdococ> `le//rn confused//confused? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:14:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'confused': confused? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:15:05 <rdococ> nobody will ever know it's there. unless they have access to the files HackEgo stores wisdom entries in :P
13:16:15 <rdococ> now it isn't there -_-
13:16:31 <rdococ> or I misinterpreted what `revert means.
13:16:41 <int-e> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/764b2c82eaba/wisdom/confused
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13:16:52 <int-e> as you can see it's still there.
13:18:39 <rdococ> aw I liked the syntactic sugar one.
13:18:40 <rdococ> "Syntactic sugar causes semicolon cancer."
13:18:45 <rdococ> I thought that was a clever pun.
13:19:39 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:07:57 <rdococ> this channel hasn't talked for 40 minutes.
14:08:35 <rdococ> I must invent an #esoteric language where int-e is a type.
14:08:54 <rdococ> or what about a language where you use 17.5 bit integers
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15:30:42 <int-e> shachaf: oh well, that box thing was anticlimactic
15:33:13 <int-e> I didn't try to race against the mountain king.
15:45:31 <rdococ> I'm working on specifications for a new language, one with logical oddities.
15:47:10 <rdococ> Such as non-integer bit integers...
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16:09:45 <rdococ> Okay, so my language will have base-5 quinbits and 17.5 quinbit integers.
16:18:15 <rdococ> I've decided to extend that to base 6 sexbits. Yes, that will be their name.
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17:54:18 -!- int-e has set topic: The comedy channel almost, but not quite, entirely without esolang discussions | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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18:05:27 <rdococ> Zarutian: You'll be interested to know that I'm creating an esolang with 3.5 state logic and 17.5 bit integers.
18:16:14 <Zarutian> read this comment on a newssite: "What is it called when someone illegally immigrates through his or her mothers womb?" and it got me thinking, nearly all USAians are illegal immigrants in that sense.
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18:49:42 <rdococ> in a 3.5-state logic, what would be the first state? the second? the third? the... 3.5th?
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18:50:04 <rdococ> I don't think it makes sense to enumerate a list whose length is not an integer.
18:50:09 <rdococ> But you can still math it!
18:50:55 <rdococ> Still, how am I going to design syntax for a language with 17.5 bit integers and 3.5-state bits?
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18:53:18 <wob_jonas> rdococ: does it have to be exactly 3.5 state bits, or is anything between 3 and 4 fine?
18:53:24 <rdococ> wob_jonas: Exactly 3.5.
18:53:45 <rdococ> I was considering 3.5+i but then I decided I was getting too complicated.
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18:57:10 <rdococ> I could pull a Malbolge and send the program through a hash before running it.
18:57:45 <rdococ> Or, send the program through a number of hashes corresponding to some variable.
18:59:27 <rdococ> Perhaps a checksum of some kind. Added security :P
19:04:31 <wob_jonas> Because there's a nice non-eso way to have between 3 and 4 status bits.
19:09:17 <int-e> an integer variable with range 0..10?
19:09:46 <wob_jonas> Have an add/adc and a sub/sbb operation on integers, and make it return zero, sign, carry, overflow status bits like x86 does. They're four bits, but they're not quite independent, they can take only 9 different values together, so you need between 3 and 4 bits to represent them. If you prefer, you can use a 6502-like carry flag instead of an x86/z
19:09:46 <wob_jonas> 80-like carry flag, it doesn't change anything.
19:11:08 <rdococ> I'm not talking about bit count, I'm talking about one bit taking on 3.5 possible states.
19:11:25 <rdococ> I couldn't think of a name.
19:12:43 <rdococ> You could emulate that with a 1-2 bit system. Kinda.
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19:20:30 <int-e> wob_jonas: well, there are quirks, like the fact that x86's inc and dec instructions don't affect the carry flag, but they do affect the other ones.
19:21:06 <int-e> but it's funny, I don't recall enumerating those 9 outcomes...
19:22:37 <int-e> (this quirk has a reason, of course; it's potentially useful when putting adc in a loop)
19:25:17 <int-e> (I'm making this needlessly hard, because there's also stc and clc)
19:32:26 <rdococ> As I said, I was talking about 3.5 state bits as opposed to 3.5 bits.
19:32:37 <wob_jonas> int-e: sure, on x86, you can set any flag combination, because you have extra instructions like stc and popf, and even instructions that set flags to undefined results
19:33:11 <wob_jonas> so you want something with those x86 flags (but no A flag) and only the add/adc/sub/sbb instructions, plus possibly other instructions that don't take the flags to impossible states
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19:38:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51196&oldid=50613 * CatIsFluffy * (-5072)
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19:40:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51197&oldid=51196 * CatIsFluffy * (+104) Actual edit
19:42:26 <rdococ> I wish HackEgo linked to the actual page, no comparisons or anything, when showing edits.
19:42:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51198&oldid=51197 * CatIsFluffy * (+41) A few fixes
19:47:02 <rdococ> Btw: as a part of my language, all programs are encrypted using SHA-525.21875 before being ran.
19:48:08 <rdococ> In fact, they are encrypted 1.25 times.
19:50:42 <zzo38> One kind of Chaingate is Free Chaingate, as they mention, but another kind can be Free Chaingate Chaingate.
19:51:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51199&oldid=51198 * CatIsFluffy * (+59) missed an instruction
20:04:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51200&oldid=51199 * CatIsFluffy * (-36) TIO has 1.4
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20:14:30 <rdococ> I've seen basic computers in Portal 2 the game as custom test chambers. Should we add it to the wiki?
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20:19:40 <rdococ> Sorta like a joke, like Text.
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20:47:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Chaingate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51201&oldid=51179 * Ais523 * (+296) reply
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21:25:51 <HackEgo> A football is a ball made of feet.
21:26:21 <rdococ> `le//rn football//A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site.
21:26:23 <HackEgo> Relearned 'football': A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site.
21:26:55 <rdococ> `le//rn football//A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies.
21:26:57 <HackEgo> Relearned 'football': A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies.
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21:41:01 <wob_jonas> rdococ: there's actually a sculpture in Szeged that's a memorial for some football thing and looks like a ball made of feet
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21:49:08 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
21:49:25 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
21:50:43 <rdococ> `le//rn rdocscovery//Rdocscoveries include footballs, a new world record for the most bored person alive, and Budapest.
21:50:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'rdocscovery': Rdocscoveries include footballs, a new world record for the most bored person alive, and Budapest.
21:51:39 <rdococ> `le//rn rdocscovery//Rdocscoveries include footballs, how bored one person can get, and Budapest.
21:51:41 <HackEgo> Relearned 'rdocscovery': Rdocscoveries include footballs, how bored one person can get, and Budapest.
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22:30:40 <shachaf> int-e: 04:15 <shachaf> My performance so far is egriegous.
22:33:13 <wob_jonas> Budapest is older than you are. The fater of my grandmother has worked in Budapest ages ago. And I think it was discovered decades before that.
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22:35:13 <wob_jonas> (Before it was discovered, people called it Pest-Buda, which is such a stupid name, I don't understand how they didn't discover the right name sooner.)
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22:44:31 <rdococ> wob_jonas: yes, and the universe is older than Taneb
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22:48:12 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
22:49:10 <wob_jonas> rdococ: I dunno. My grandmother told me about some things when he was younger, but not about the universe. I don't know if it's really that old.
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23:29:23 <rdococ> drunken eliza just crashed on me
23:30:22 <rdococ> drunken eliza just crashed on me a billion times
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23:41:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Angrykoala * New user account
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00:07:18 <rdococ> waht about real number
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00:37:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51202&oldid=51186 * Angrykoala * (+162)
00:38:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51203&oldid=51202 * Angrykoala * (+89)
00:39:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ChuckScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51204 * Angrykoala * (+3760) Created page with "ChuckScript is an [[esoteric programming language]] designed by Andrés Ortiz based on the concepts of [[Unary]], where all the code is written using only zeroes. The language..."
00:43:01 <oerjan> % not being a Prelude function ruins my golfing attempt :(
00:43:40 <oerjan> (i was going to cheat on the input format)
00:44:13 <pikhq> Or does it need KAFF?
00:44:25 <HackEgo> Oberpfaffenhofen (OBF, EDMO) \ Graaff Reinet (?, FAGR) \ Muzaffarabad (MFG, OPMF) \ Muzaffarpur (?, VEMZ) \ Flagstaff Pulliam Airport (FLG, KFLG) \ Schaffen Diest (?, ?) \ Safford Regional Airport (SAD, KSAD)
00:45:02 <oerjan> it seems not to have it at all.
00:45:22 <pikhq> KAFF is not exactly a minor airport.
00:45:32 <pikhq> That's the Air Force Academy's airfield.
00:45:45 <HackEgo> Kirtland Air Force Base (IKR, KIKR) \ Hickam Air Force Base (?, PHIK)
00:46:00 <lambdabot> KAFF 042358Z AUTO 24016G22KT 10SM CLR 16/M22 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP109 T01591217 10183 20107 55001
00:46:09 <oerjan> i suppose no one added it
00:46:10 <pikhq> Welp, lambdabot can find it at least.
00:46:24 <pikhq> Granted there's not that many people that actually fly in or out of it.
00:46:47 <oerjan> i think someone mentioned HackEgo's list being crowdsourced
00:47:51 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/airports.dat
00:54:50 <zzo38> Now I made Hamster archive program on JavaScript; can be use with file and with memory, and can be use both reading and writing.
00:57:53 <zzo38> (The program is simple, because Hamster archive is a simple format, compared to tape archive and so on)
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01:52:41 <Zarutian> zzo38: Hamster archive file format?
02:08:39 <zzo38> It is consist of zero or more lumps; each lump consist of the null-terminated name, the 32-bit PDP-order data size, and then the data.
02:11:13 <Zarutian> PDP-ordered? big endian or little endian unsigned int?
02:11:22 <fizzie> oerjan: pikhq: Yes, the list is from http://openflights.org/data.html
02:11:51 <fizzie> Zarutian: "PDP-endian" usually refers to neither.
02:12:46 <fizzie> Zarutian: It is a 32-bit big-endian combination of two 16-bit little-endian parts.
02:13:00 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness#Middle-endian
02:14:06 <Zarutian> so the most significant 16-bit word is first but inside each 16-bit the least significant byte is first?
02:14:39 <zzo38> The lump names are ASCII.
02:14:47 <Zarutian> or is it something like PETSCI.
02:15:39 <Zarutian> the datapart is counted in 8 bit bytes?
02:15:39 <zzo38> (I don't know why it uses PDP-endian, but it does.)
02:16:59 <\oren\> WAIT. ALL THIS TIME I DIDN"T HAVE 猫 IN MY FONT?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
02:19:29 <Zarutian> so, the name can contain full relative paths in the archive?
02:20:54 <zzo38> Zarutian: It can, although normally it is a single DOS filename (but it can be longer if needed).
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02:43:00 <oerjan> i can save 2 bytes by using "Ø" instead of "\128"
02:43:39 <oerjan> (Ø being the cutest letter to use)
02:45:01 <oerjan> oh, vim shows byte and character count separately when they differ
02:48:13 <pikhq> \oren\: Of all the things.
02:48:49 <pikhq> zzo38: Any reason for PDP-endian other than humor?
02:51:11 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't know; I didn't invent it.
02:51:23 <pikhq> I realized shortly after asking.
02:52:36 <pikhq> It looks like the format was designed by a 14 year old, which leads me to believe that the humor value was the primary reason.
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04:10:40 <hppavilion1> I really want a way to make my mouse use polar coordinates instead of normal Cartesian ones
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05:58:03 <oerjan> wow, i had discarded that "Ø" for something simpler of the same length, but now I can make something _else_ shorter by putting it back...
05:58:26 <oerjan> oh wait stupid unicode
05:58:35 <oerjan> it only saves a character, not a byte
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06:40:39 <HackEgo> A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies.
06:52:39 <zzo38> If you make a Chaingate where the f is one step of a Underload program, then the resulting Chaingate-Underload is a superset of Underload, I think?
06:57:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51205 * Jfb * (+2566) Created page
06:58:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51206&oldid=51114 * Jfb * (+67) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
06:59:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51207&oldid=51205 * Jfb * (-51)
07:00:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51208 * Jfb * (+74) redirect
07:00:59 <shachaf> int-e: OK, I got past the mountain king.
07:04:26 <oerjan> that makes Chaingate trivially TC
07:06:34 <oerjan> @tell ais523 zzo38 points out that if your f implements the state transitions of a programming language, then Chaingate is obviously a superset of it.
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08:17:53 <HackEgo> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
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09:25:18 <rdococ> Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script?
09:26:07 <rdococ> what we really need is
09:26:27 <rdococ> Brainfuck, but at every - the interpreter goes faster
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09:33:21 <int-e> shachaf: did you find the credits?
09:34:30 <shachaf> int-e: You mean the audio in the secret area?
09:35:41 <shachaf> Did you get there via restart after the normal ending, or the other method?
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09:36:41 <int-e> the normal ending is too Zen for me, I don't like it :P
09:37:10 <shachaf> Ah, so you defeated the mountain king too.
09:37:25 <int-e> no I did not? hmmmm.
09:37:42 <int-e> maybe there's more.
09:37:54 <int-e> anyway, not going to boot into windows today
09:38:12 <shachaf> To get to the secret area gur tngr arrqf gb or pybfrq.
09:38:46 <int-e> yes. but you don't need to defeat the mountain king to do that.
09:38:54 <shachaf> Right, you can restart instead.
09:39:28 <shachaf> Then how? I only found the method to get to that state after finishing the challenge.
09:39:42 <shachaf> Maybe I just didn't look carefully enough?
09:40:03 <int-e> lbh whfg jnyx ol gur tenzzbcubar gb gur pbqr
09:40:22 <shachaf> I didn't notice that there was a path there until I finished it.
09:40:35 <shachaf> I figured it only opened later.
09:41:21 <shachaf> So you get much less for finishing it than I thought.
09:41:57 <int-e> I'm still missing a cinema code, hmm
09:42:08 <shachaf> You get one when you finish it.
09:43:00 <shachaf> But it's an hour long or something? I didn't watch it.
09:43:30 <rdococ> I need to come up with a new paradigm
09:43:53 <int-e> did you figure out that you can jump through the movies?
09:44:45 <shachaf> I didn't realize that. I saw that you can see from behind the screen.
09:44:54 <int-e> no, not through the screen
09:45:19 <int-e> I mean, if there's a movie 10 minutes loing and you want to start at the 5th, that's possible.
09:45:45 <int-e> (and I basically found out about that by accident)
09:45:54 <int-e> (though it made perfect sense afterwards)
09:45:55 <shachaf> Yes, if you use the controls on the left.
09:46:25 <shachaf> Does it make perfect sense? I think those are the only "puzzles" in the game that let you terminate mid-line.
09:46:42 <shachaf> (Maybe the boat does too? But I can't think of other examples.)
09:47:12 <int-e> no, you can't terminate the boat in the middle either... that would be convenient sometimes. Well, you can make it stop of course.
09:47:39 <shachaf> The boat has many secrets.
09:48:02 <int-e> it makes perfect sense afterwards because it acts like a scrollbar. It's hard to discover because it doesn't follow the ordinary puzzle logic.
09:48:29 <int-e> The boat got me from +1 to about +10, and I'm not sure I figured everything out, probably missed a few.
09:49:44 <shachaf> You still haven't said what your +1 was.
09:50:02 <int-e> below the desert laser
09:56:26 <int-e> onfvpnyyl vg unq gb or fbzrguvat znqr pbzcyrgryl bhg bs znpuvarel, ahqtvat zr gbjneqf ybbxvat ng gur ynaqfpncr... naq yngre ersyrpgvbaf, gbb.
09:57:58 <int-e> shachaf: btw, when you wrote "The Poochness" was that referring to the dog near the start?
09:58:22 <shachaf> No, I just wrote the word "pooch".
09:58:27 <int-e> (I found that one fairly late)
09:58:29 <shachaf> There's a dog near the start?
09:58:59 <int-e> it's in a (pointless as far as I could see) cul-de-sac
10:02:22 <shachaf> There are all sorts of bonuses in the beginning area.
10:02:53 <int-e> there are a few that I haven't figured out yet there
10:03:02 <int-e> there's a rather cute one *right* at the start
10:04:29 <int-e> somehow, now that I know that there are over a hundred of them, these don't seem much of spoilers anymore, hmm.
10:05:39 <shachaf> My friend is in the mountain and apparently hasn't found a single one yet.
10:06:04 <int-e> I only found one, I just didn't look for them. I focused on puzzles and finding the back entries.
10:07:08 <int-e> but there should be dozens there
10:07:13 <shachaf> My first one was outside the desert building.
10:07:32 <shachaf> Ah, no, I mean, he hasn't found one in the whole game so far.
10:08:03 <shachaf> At least as far as I can surmise without asking spoiler questions.
10:08:05 <int-e> well, I can actually see that happening.
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10:14:19 <int-e> anyway I still wish that game had some sort of story
10:17:52 <int-e> (going beyond "oh this was a long dream and here I am waking up from it")
10:22:36 <rdococ> need to come up with a new paradigm
10:25:39 <shachaf> Did you figure out the long rectangular puzzle under the desert without brute force?
10:28:11 <int-e> shachaf: two levels underground on the way to the laser?
10:28:35 <int-e> or is that three, hmm.
10:30:23 <int-e> (I'm not sure how long "long" is. What I have in mind is 3 rows, 8 columns or so)
10:30:35 <int-e> (if that's the one, I didn't use brute force there)
10:31:14 <shachaf> I think I used brute force for one side of it.
10:35:00 <int-e> rdococ: "Think of a new paradigm" really isn't how this works. Paradigm shifts are usually achieved in small incremental steps, or by some brilliant insight into connecting two seemingly unrelated ideas.
10:35:27 <rdococ> but who cares, I've always made no sense.
10:35:38 <int-e> oh that was deliberate.
10:35:42 <int-e> good job, carry on.
10:48:15 <int-e> grrrr. https://www.utwente.nl/en/news/!/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption ... where is the link to the actual study so that I can find out which work load caused that 582% error?
10:49:00 <int-e> (I mean I'm used to "journalists" not linking to their sources but this is a university website. sigh.)
10:50:43 <int-e> (actually they do give the publisher and title of the study. why no electronic link though... is it accepted for publication, but not yet online?)
10:51:58 <shachaf> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170303180139.htm has an electronic link.
10:52:10 <shachaf> If you want to purchase the document.
11:00:56 <int-e> thanks, university has a subscription.
11:08:24 <rdococ> does the 'unless' phrase have a character like 'therefore' does?
11:11:25 <int-e> . o O ( The blue color of the sky is a result of scattered sunlight. Therefore, unless we assume that the sun is shining, the sky will not be blue. )
11:13:47 <int-e> The two words don't behave the same way at all.
11:19:32 <rdococ> what about an assumption?
11:19:48 <int-e> so the nasty workload seems to be a dimmed (pulse-modulated) LED with the dimmer triggered at 75% of each half period; they have a huge spike in drawn current at that point, decreasing very quickly.
11:20:41 <int-e> rdococ: you're just asking that for sake of asking a question, aren't you.
11:21:18 <rdococ> I am trying out syntax for a new, crappier language
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12:40:22 <rdococ> x is a lambda expression. \a.x is a lambda expression if x is one.
12:40:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag.png]]"
12:41:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag pass.png]]"
12:41:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag fail.png]]"
12:47:06 <rdococ> then what would be a creative syntax for it
12:47:25 <rdococ> \\1 could mean \x.(\y.y)...
12:47:52 <rdococ> but then what about application
12:48:48 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index is related
12:49:23 <int-e> (but you seem to have decided to number from the outside... that's a difference)
12:49:49 <rdococ> I could go with inside
12:50:22 <rdococ> but if you replace the numbers with unary slashes
12:50:43 <int-e> de Bruijn indices also feature in Tromp's binary lambda calculus. https://tromp.github.io/cl/cl.html
12:50:46 <rdococ> or \x.(\y.xy) which I think shows how the idea works more
12:52:10 <rdococ> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bruijndejx seems to exist
12:54:11 <rdococ> if 1 is a number that takes x and y and returns xy (as 2 would return xyy)...
12:54:29 <rdococ> then 0 would return x and would be true... you could do it the other way round and do yx for 1, making it yxx for 2
12:55:17 <rdococ> Kxy = x. doesn't this make K true?
12:55:53 <int-e> yes, K is true; KI is false.
12:56:54 <rdococ> or am I missing something?
12:57:01 <int-e> that number representation would be quite awkward to work with, though perhaps not impossible.
12:58:14 <rdococ> is it K(Ix)y? or (KI)xy?
12:58:25 <rdococ> no I doubt they're the same...
12:58:58 <rdococ> (((KI)x)y)... so KI takes an argument x and returns I, and then it becomes Iy... oh god that's clever
13:03:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag unfolded.png]]"
13:08:24 <int-e> Okay, yes, that number format can be used in principle, though I really wouldn't want to. \n x y. n (\t. t y) x converts Church numerals into that format; \q f x. q ((\a. a a) (\a n t. t n (a a (f n))) x) (\x y.y) (\x y.x) converts them back to Church numerals.
13:08:59 <rdococ> honestly I'm out of ideas
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13:09:57 <int-e> (coming up with the latter was a nice puzzle really)
13:10:39 <rdococ> what would I call that slashy language then?
13:11:07 <rdococ> doesn't that already exist?
13:11:57 <rdococ> what I'd really like is some way to incorporate lambda-like functionality into bf
13:12:49 <rdococ> granted it's a bf derivative idea but it's not a noob one
13:14:14 <int-e> Oh, this is a better way to convert to Church numerals: \q f x. q (\h. h x) (\n h. h (f n)) (\n. n)
13:15:40 <int-e> Grass exists. Lawn doesn't.
13:15:53 <rdococ> Lawn has a w in it so Grass should have been called Lawn
13:17:22 <int-e> (in any case it's a visual idea... \|/ are grass leaves leaning left, not at all, and right, respectively.
13:20:56 <rdococ> how would I put lambda calculus into bf
13:25:15 <rdococ> when a lambda expression is applied, you could shift all the cells to the right and place the application in the leftmost
13:33:26 <rdococ> what I need is a stack
13:44:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51213&oldid=51167 * Jafetish * (+4395) computational class
13:47:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51214&oldid=51213 * Jafetish * (+30) /* Computational class */
13:51:13 <Jafet> @tell oerjan I think this works: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trajedy#Computational_class
13:58:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51215&oldid=51214 * Jafetish * (+104) /* Computational class */
14:00:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51216&oldid=51215 * Jafetish * (+21) /* Notes */
14:17:54 -!- int-e has set topic: The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
14:18:27 <Jafet> on the topic of paradigms, I can't quite find any related languages to Trajedy to link to
14:19:53 <int-e> though tbf the beacons are not very realistic as optical devices
14:21:23 <Jafet> I did think of ray tracing, but it sounded too “interesting” to make into a language
14:21:38 <Jafet> I think snell's law already gives you transcendental equations
14:22:20 <int-e> trajedy has ray tracing elements
14:23:01 <Jafet> specular reflection should be computable with sqrt field extensions, though
14:30:14 <rdococ> what about a function-oriented programming language
14:42:04 <Jafet> another unexplored area seems to be fluid dynamics
14:44:16 <Jafet> that might get dangerously non-esoteric though, I think terry tao has done some Serious Research™ on whether undecidable fluidics can exist in a navier-stokes system
14:44:51 <Jafet> (https://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/navier-stokes-fluid-computers/)
14:45:18 <Jafet> ok, he only discussed the possibility. but it must have been discussed Seriously.
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15:28:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51217 * Rdococ * (+144) Created page with "== Doesn't the Bee Movie Script have . and ,? == What happens here? ~~~~"
15:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51218&oldid=51217 * Rdococ * (+111) /* Doesn't the Bee Movie Script have . and ,? */
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15:42:49 <rdococ> ya aya ay aya aya aaaaya ayaya.
15:45:09 <rdococ> what about a language with real numbers
16:02:14 <DHeadshot> Do you know anything about X11 programming? Specifically, how to load in a TrueType Font?
16:09:44 <Jafet> presumably documentation exists for xft?
16:17:43 <int-e> Jafet: is the "nearest matching beacon" with respect to the position where the ray enters the beacon, or the beacon being entered?
16:19:01 <Jafet> it's the beacon that has the nearest point to the current pointer position
16:19:17 <Jafet> I don't know which of those you mean, but that is it
16:20:06 <int-e> So one could do a comparison like this http://sprunge.us/BjPP
16:20:56 <Jafet> yes, that would work
16:21:53 <Jafet> maybe some of the examples could be simplified with that, in fact
16:22:49 <Jafet> well, the bit extraction for the reverse-cat could use that, but I don't think it gives a simpler program
16:24:04 <int-e> I'm really just trying to understand the semantics for now
16:24:48 <int-e> if I have -->BB, then the ray enters the left B, moves to horizontally to the right B; what happens then?
16:24:56 <rdococ> I'd like to create a language with time travel but I fear I'll just be copying TwoDucks :/
16:25:32 <int-e> (I expect a division by zero)
16:25:36 <Jafet> it then turns back towards the first B
16:25:45 <Jafet> see #Infinitesimals which covers this case
16:27:38 <Jafet> the solution (keeping track of which side of a zero-width boundary you're on) is a bit ugly, but I don't think it matters because any program that encounters this just loops forever
16:29:02 <lifthrasiir> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13796256 seems that Aheui is trending in the HN now, 12 years after its initial publication
16:33:50 <Jafet> sadly, this browser still displays boxes after 12 years
16:34:31 <Jafet> I should probably install a hangul font here
16:34:49 <Jafet> or an all-purpose font, sure
16:35:22 <Jafet> I wonder how \oren\'s compares
16:39:41 <rdococ> What could a halting oracle be used to do?
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16:47:14 <wob_jonas> In M:tG, how does casting a spell without paying its mana cost work? If there's an X in the cost, you have to set that to zero. But how does casting Sprout Swarm without paying the mana cost work? Can you choose to buyback, and if so, can you convoke to pay for the buyback cost?
16:47:42 <wob_jonas> With the new convoke rules that is, not the old one.
17:04:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - beacon rules.png]]"
17:05:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51220&oldid=51216 * Jafetish * (+228) /* Normal mode */ diagram for beacon rules
17:06:56 <rdococ> I honestly don't think the TwoDucks halting oracle would work/
17:08:28 <rdococ> I mean, eventually the machine will be switched off, or break, or explode, or succumb to the ever-increasing entropy of the universe, meaning that a function doesn't have to loop forever to be classified as non-halting, it just has to take long enough for the machine to die.
17:08:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51221&oldid=51220 * Jafetish * (+58) /* Semantics */
17:12:01 <rdococ> an abstract implementation doesn't care about the entropy of the universe
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17:32:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51222&oldid=46028 * Angrykoala * (+82)
17:34:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51223&oldid=51195 * Angrykoala * (-15) removed codefuck duplicate
17:35:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51224&oldid=51223 * Angrykoala * (+18) Added chuckscript language
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17:37:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51225&oldid=51221 * Jafetish * (+2333) /* Notes */ notes on unconstrained zigzags
17:58:16 <HackEgo> to 10 minutes or until cheese is evaporated. \ Blend the beans and seasonings. Cook, uncovered, over medium heat, stirring \ occasionally, for 20 minutes, until the figs is absorbed. Store in a \ high flavors of the meat mixture, and cover with a size of the \ egg mixture. Serve the sugar canned cheese with salt and pepper. Place \ the flour a
17:59:29 <rdococ> Should I create a language with time travel _and_ a halting oracle?
18:17:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ChuckScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51226&oldid=51204 * Angrykoala * (+316)
18:18:37 <zzo38> Maybe you should try
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18:25:36 <int-e> Jafet: I don't think your zigzag device works as advertised: http://sprunge.us/TjgN
18:26:20 <int-e> Jafet: but I also have little doubt that such a divisibility device can be built, it's just a bit harder
18:27:11 <int-e> nice visual interpreter btw.
18:32:43 <rdococ> How fast is a halting oracle?
18:34:40 <int-e> (though I'm missing a "reload" button)
18:36:24 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I think the answer to both is yes (about the M:tG)
18:39:46 <rdococ> a fast halting oracle could be very useful
18:42:00 <int-e> wob_jonas: why on Earth would that work
19:01:35 <wob_jonas> int-e: sorry, I was just replying out of context to the reload button thing
19:06:54 <DHeadshot> anyone know why XftColorAllocValue causes a segfault?
19:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51227 * Rdococ * (+1311) Not to be confused with Oracle, that company who I think owns Java. Or was it Sun?
19:31:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51228&oldid=51227 * Rdococ * (+206)
19:41:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51229&oldid=51228 * Rdococ * (+2) Minor syntactical fix
19:42:17 <rdococ> Anyone gonna take a look?
19:51:18 <\oren\> what should I add to my font today?
19:52:39 <rdococ> my new, even crappier language
19:53:22 <\oren\> I guess I should add more kanji... there are 466 joyo kanji left
19:59:40 <wob_jonas> \oren\: check if you have all the kanji necessary for Shogi moves notation
20:00:21 <wob_jonas> some of them are quite obscure and rarely appear in other context
20:00:39 <wob_jonas> you added one yesterday but I'm not sure if there isn't more left
20:01:32 <wob_jonas> \oren\: also, those accented latin and cyrillic letters I mentioned that don't have a precomposed character in unicode
20:11:48 <\oren\> let's see: 將 isn't a joyo kanji
20:12:22 <pikhq> I don't think it's even jinmeiyou.
20:13:49 <pikhq> Yeah, that's not uncommon.
20:14:06 <\oren\> those are the only ones left (by a cursory scan)
20:14:37 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi < on this page. maybe I should check the japanese wiki page for others
20:15:09 <pikhq> That article looks comprehensive for the notation at least.
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20:43:56 <Perenelle> -[--->+<]>------.>--[----->+<]>-.+++++++++++++.--------.---------.+++++++++++++.-[->+++++<]>-.-[--->++<]>-.++++++++++.+[---->+<]>+++.+[----->+<]>.--[--->+<]>.-[---->+<]>++.+[->+++<]>+.---.+++.
20:44:13 <Perenelle> I learned brainfuck just to say that
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21:01:52 <Taneb> That certainly looks like a brainfuck program. Then again, so does this
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21:29:35 <int-e> Jafet: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/zigzag.html :)
21:29:55 <int-e> and this is enough for a minsky counter machine
21:30:19 <int-e> (fractran, too, but that's actually a bit more awkward)
21:32:48 <int-e> for the minsky counter machine with three counters, represent a counters by 1/(3^a5^b7^c11); to check whether a counter is 0, multiply by the corresponding prime and then check whether the new numerator is 1 (--> nonzero) or equal to that prime (--> zero)
21:33:21 <int-e> the 1/11 factor takes care of the 0 < x <= 1/5 precondition of that gadget.
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21:38:05 <int-e> (the tricky part is to turn the ray by 45 degrees, though it's quite possible that my way isn't the best)
21:44:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51230&oldid=51218 * Ais523 * (+870) /* Cheating */ new section
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22:02:23 <Perenelle> -[------->+<]>--.[--->+<]>++.-----------.-[--->+<]>-.-[--->++<]>-.++++++++++.+[---->+<]>+++.+[->+++<]>+.+.----.+++. Mhmm
22:06:39 <int-e> Jafet: Oh I guess we were also missing this: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/merge.html
22:10:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zigzag with preprocessing.png]]"
22:11:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
22:24:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - zigzag with preprocessing.png]]"
22:31:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51234&oldid=51225 * Int-e * (+1478) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ rewrite
22:33:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
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22:39:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - merge.png]]"
22:40:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51237 * Int-e * (+228) Created page with "Yet another merge device: {| | [ ]Q[ ] L R \/ \/ \ L Q R | [[File:Trajedy - merge.png]] |} ~~~~"
22:45:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51238&oldid=51234 * Int-e * (+98) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */
22:55:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51239&oldid=51238 * Int-e * (+232) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ recover Fractran reduction
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23:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51240&oldid=51239 * Int-e * (+25) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ fix prime choice
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23:12:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51241&oldid=51237 * Int-e * (+117)
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23:18:19 <int-e> hum, was I wrong...
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23:29:49 <Jafet> <int-e> http://sprunge.us/TjgN -- is that meant to be a counterexample?
23:31:09 <Jafet> it seems to be working with the given input (namely 1/5)
23:34:31 <int-e> Jafet: It's all my mistake, your gadget actually works, but I misinterpreted what your interpreter did... let me clean up the mess.
23:37:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51242&oldid=51240 * Int-e * (-1833) undoing my changes, because the original gadget actually, amazingly, works
23:37:22 <Jafet> that's fine then, it doesn't hurt to have more fractran reductions
23:38:07 <Jafet> I was actually looking for a way to enter the zigzag on a corner, like in your gadget, but I didn't know it would entail p-1 output ports
23:38:50 <Jafet> it's probably easier to prove correct from a corner start, but the gadget looks messier
23:41:45 <int-e> hmm. but I haven't yet figured out whether it reliably departs from a corner when the number is not a reciprocal. it actually looks like it should get stuck between the mirrors for some values.
23:42:09 <int-e> (imagining the mirrors to be extended to infinity)
23:42:54 <Jafet> I think you can prove that from the unfolded diagram (https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:Trajedy_-_zig-zag_unfolded.png)
23:43:20 <Jafet> the mirrors in that diagram would be extended to infinity on the right
23:44:33 <Jafet> then if x=p/q, it should reach the corner of the k-th mirror to the right when kp/q is an integer
23:45:30 <Jafet> (the bit that I'm not sure about is whether it is guaranteed to never escape before the first such k)
23:45:31 <zzo38> A PC text screen could be stored in a file with no header, with a BSAVE header, or with a MZM header. MZM file can be board-mode or layer-mode, but board-mode is not useful outside of MegaZeux, so instead can describe layer-mode. The header consists of the four ASCII characters "MZM2", two small-endian 16-bit numbers giving width and height, followed by the eight bytes 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00.
23:49:19 <int-e> Jafet: yes, it can get stuck. http://sprunge.us/FYYg
23:51:27 <int-e> So what I did has merit after all, but I was looking for the wrong kind of issue.
23:52:00 <int-e> so I'll just redo my changes?
23:52:34 <int-e> it's still amazing to me that your gadget *does* hit that corner for all 1/n.
23:52:45 <Jafet> I wonder what other resonances exist
23:53:30 <Jafet> (if there are only a few resonances, there is still some hope of avoiding them in the first place)
23:59:53 <Jafet> as it turns out, infinitely many of them (just pick another corner point within the chamber and draw a path to the first one)
23:59:55 <int-e> Here's what I have, mathematically: if x/(6-x) equals 1/(6k+5) then we hit the corner. If x/(6-x) = p/(3q) in lowest terms then I think that'll cause a resonance... so whenever x = 6p/(3q+p)
00:00:14 <int-e> *the* corner being the one for reciprocals.
00:03:01 <Jafet> we could always just forbid 2 and 3, though at this point the corner-starting gadget is starting to look better
00:03:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51243&oldid=51242 * Int-e * (+1833) Reverting revert (Oops, I guess the original gadget really does not work after all: while reciprocals are miraculously fine, non-reciprocals cause trouble.)
00:05:51 <int-e> So basically I believe the claim about having to transform to (p+q, p-q) is correct, since in order to avoid resonanance in all cases, one has to enter the zigzag gadeget at a corner.
00:06:28 <int-e> and in any case it makes the story quite a bit simpler.
00:18:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51244&oldid=51243 * Int-e * (+270) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ add some observations about initial gadget
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00:35:37 <lambdabot> Jafet said 10h 44m 23s ago: I think this works: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trajedy#Computational_class
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00:39:35 <Jafet> int-e: I am determining whether the 1/5 restriction (and the (5,6) offset before reaching the x) in your gadget is necessary
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00:41:12 <Jafet> it appears that by moving the initial reflector to a (2,3) offset, it still works but the even-numbered exits go to the other side of the tube
00:41:35 <Jafet> (and presumably, by increasing the offset the exits can be spaced further apart)
00:42:28 <Jafet> (and presumably, by increasing the offset the exits can be spaced further apart)
00:42:36 <Jafet> oops, this isn't a shell
00:46:23 <int-e> Jafet: I don't see much room for improvement without playing with the A's as well; a potentially fruitful idea would be to move the top right A further out diagonally. But it's all delicate, and it's getting... early.
00:47:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51245&oldid=51230 * Oerjan * (+300) /* Cheating */ More general
00:50:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51246&oldid=51245 * Oerjan * (+179) /* Doesn't the Bee Movie Script have . and ,? */ Possibly unambiguous?
00:51:32 <int-e> Jafet: final thought for today: Instead of (p+q, p-q) one could use (p+kq, p-kq) and space the zigzag mirrors k diagonal steps apart.
00:52:41 <int-e> That way one wouldn't have to cover a whole 45 degree range of rays, but only a range of size atan(1/k).
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00:54:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51247&oldid=51241 * Oerjan * (+153) I see three
00:55:03 <oerjan> Now to check what you've achieved...
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02:03:30 <oerjan> wrongly remembering by birthday is imperfect tdnh
02:03:58 <oerjan> my birthday is too perfect for you to grasp
02:04:29 <Perenelle> Damn its been 3 years since you told me your age
02:04:43 <oerjan> (if you ever knew it, that should be enough of a hint)
02:04:44 <shachaf> > (sum &&& product) [1,2,23]
02:05:37 <Perenelle> But I never gave it to you oerjan for I left
02:05:55 <HackEgo> 1/2:cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. \ hockey//Hockey is okey, but parsley is gharsley. \ plan9//Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language. \ algol//ALGOL stands for A Programming Language \ oren's font//\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontde
02:06:08 <HackEgo> 1/497:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warrigal>
02:06:23 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport
02:06:58 <HackEgo> 1/1:1/1:/hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ 1/1:/hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ 1/1:/hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ 1/1:/hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ 1/1:/hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv \ /hackenv
02:13:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51248&oldid=51244 * Jafetish * (+331) /* Computational class */ try a more chronological explanation
02:14:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51249&oldid=51248 * Jafetish * (-16) /* Corrected zig-zag test */
02:15:09 <quintopia> i've been stuck on this one evoland2 room for like an hour
02:22:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51250&oldid=51249 * Jafetish * (+321) /* Notes */ int-e's MM notes
02:26:05 <HackEgo> APL stands for Algorithmic Programming Language.
02:27:38 <HackEgo> 5357:2015-05-05 <mromän> learn APL stands for Algorithmic Programming Language. \ 5356:2015-05-05 <nortẗi> learn APL stands for Algorithmic Language \ 5355:2015-05-05 <mromän> learn APL is the programming language everyone secretely wants to use but can\'t admit it in public IRC channels.
02:28:56 <HackEgo> 847:2012-11-09 <shachäf> addquote <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX \ 863:2012-11-20 <Jafët> addquote <Jafet> `addquote <Jafet> `addquote 867 \ 999:2012-12-09 <oerjän> addquote <Jafet> The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt \ 1752:2013-01-25 <sh
02:29:49 <shachaf> I don't get that first quote.
02:30:10 <Jafet> http://xhp.xwis.net/documents/MIX_Format.html
02:31:08 <HackEgo> 108) <CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 707) <elliott> then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /th
02:31:32 <HackEgo> 2/3:and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context \ 771) <zzo38> Do you think " `addquote [with no context] < zzo38> Do you think psychology is worse, or not?" is worse, or not? \ 1242) <ais523> hppavilion1: there's not much point in `addquoting an `addquote unless the person who added it was somehow significant, or
02:31:55 <HackEgo> 3/3:there's interesting context <ais523> because you can tell it was added from the fact that it's there
02:36:30 * oerjan was just managing to understand the zigzag
02:37:12 <shachaf> Hmm, if a quote was added and then deleted, you can't tell that it was added from the fact that it's there anymore.
02:38:17 <Jafet> what if delquote deleted all quotes that referred to the existence of that quote?
02:38:41 <shachaf> delquote also ought to adjust quotes that refer to other quotes by number.
02:38:54 <shachaf> Well -- quotes really ought not to be numbered, or to maintain their numbers indefinitely.
02:39:12 <oerjan> i don't think we have quotes that refer to other quotes by numbers
02:39:28 <oerjan> we shouldn't anyway. except possibly as a one-off joke.
02:39:39 <shachaf> At least there are quotes that include the result of `quote
02:39:47 <shachaf> `1 quote '`quote.*HackEgo'
02:39:48 <HackEgo> 1/3:305) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 306) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `
02:39:51 <oerjan> well ok, but those quote the whole thing, so don't count.
02:40:03 <HackEgo> 2/3:quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one <monqy> thankfully only two \ 611) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks
02:40:07 <HackEgo> 3/3:<shachaf> Well, in theory. \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
02:40:39 <HackEgo> 1/1:661) <ais523> `delquote 419 * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) \ 974) <oerjan> `quote 1000 \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
02:41:01 <HackEgo> 1146) <zzo38> Despite the various chess variants (even Chess 2), even ordinary FIDE chess is a fine playable game. But so can others be!
02:43:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51251&oldid=51250 * Jafetish * (-187) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ remove badly wrong math
02:44:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51252&oldid=51251 * Jafetish * (+21) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */
02:47:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Jafetish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag unfolded.png]]": Fix wrong alignment
02:53:47 <\oren\> what do when waiting for long program to spit out something
02:55:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51254&oldid=51252 * Jafetish * (+101) /* The zig-zag divisibility test */ fix initial diagram
02:55:18 <Jafet> ok, I think the article is internally consistent now
02:57:00 <oerjan> Jafet: i'm wondering if the zig-zag device could handle even q if you also used the _other_ side of the tube?
02:57:48 <oerjan> because that aligns better with a grid containing the initial ray point
02:58:02 <oerjan> (in the unfolding mirror picture)
02:58:43 <oerjan> although that might complicate other things.
03:01:08 <oerjan> since you'd no longer have only two exits to care about.
03:02:18 <oerjan> you haven't changed the device itself, have you? i'm still tracing the last part of it.
03:04:03 <\oren\> I made a program to go through all possible games of 5-gomoku but it is not finishing
03:04:24 <Jafet> the device seems to work, so I haven't had to change it
03:05:38 <Jafet> isn't 5-gomoku the full sized gomoku?
03:06:08 <\oren\> er. I mean 5-5x5-gomoku
03:08:14 <Jafet> you could try knuth's estimator
03:08:16 <Jafet> http://www.ams.org/journals/mcom/1975-29-129/S0025-5718-1975-0373371-6/S0025-5718-1975-0373371-6.pdf
04:11:30 <\oren\> Hooray, i won my great war of independence against those polish bastards
04:11:40 <\oren\> And now I a no longer "Muscovy". I am now RUSSIA
04:14:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51255&oldid=51254 * Oerjan * (+36) /* Corrected zig-zag test */ Fix annoying wrap
04:15:26 <shachaf> I don't know what Trajedy is. Maybe it ought to be a features esolang.
04:16:29 <Jafet> please no, I don't want to deal with trajedy derivatives
04:16:35 <shachaf> Those animated gifs are of scow quality.
04:17:07 <Jafet> kdenlive-to-gifsicle was a bit scowy, even with the gifsicle --lossy patch
04:17:26 <Jafet> the real scow is that the wiki doesn't allow webm or svg diagrams
04:19:41 <shachaf> Hmm, this language looks pretty good.
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04:26:47 <oerjan> Jafet: it seems to me that the construction fits a 1-register minsky machine as well as fractran.
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04:27:31 <oerjan> which has less restricted control flow.
04:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51256&oldid=51255 * Oerjan * (+14) /* Corrected zig-zag test */ Clarify and fix off-by-one error
04:30:18 <oerjan> if it weren't lowest terms, it would escape earlier
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04:31:20 <oerjan> oh you've already mentioned that minsky thing
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05:28:17 <zzo38> I made a shorter Myth implementation: (m,y,t,h)=>{m=JSON.parse(m);for(y=m._;h=1;){for(t in m)if(h&&t!="_")y=y.replace(t,x=>m[h=0,t]);if(h)return y}}
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05:46:58 <zzo38> Now I made one even more shorter, is: (m,y,t,h)=>{h=m=JSON.parse(m);for(y=m._;h;)for(t in h=0,m)if(!h&&t!="_")y=y.replace(t,x=>m[h=t]);return y}
05:50:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Myth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51257&oldid=36684 * Zzo38 * (+162) Shorten the implementation
05:50:32 <hppavilion1> zzo38: "Shorten the implementation" <adds 162 bytes>
05:51:31 <zzo38> The reason the new version of the page is longer is because now both implementations are included.
05:53:13 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
05:53:19 <HackEgo> 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order.
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06:06:36 <zzo38> (I think a better design might be if "" was the key for specifying the initial state instead of "_", which would make the program shorter by three bytes, well as allowing "_" to be a rewriting rule.)
06:06:44 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 11) <pikhq> First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. <pikhq> Second, you know the rest. \ 12) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <pikhq> First, invent the direct mind-computer inte
06:07:06 <HackEgo> 42) <GregorR> ??? <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks? <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? \ 142) <fungot> Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! \ 242) <fungot> elliott: there go my minutes of research!! \ 342) <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 m
06:07:41 <HackEgo> 142) <fungot> Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! \ 242) <fungot> elliott: there go my minutes of research!! \ 342) <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs? \ 442) <NihilistDandy> Having only been Catholic in the sense of being baptized that way, I still really
06:08:01 <HackEgo> 933) <oklopol> my university spam filter thinks it's okay for someone i have never met to discuss "usd 2,142,728.00 dollars" with me and "NEED MY HELP" etc. however, inviting me to a conference? such a nigerian thing to do.
06:12:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Myth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51258&oldid=36623 * Zzo38 * (+343)
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08:14:55 <int-e> Jafet: IIUC, your suggested move of the initial A would effectively pre-multiply the value by 1/2; for p/q with odd q that has a fairly predictable effect (odd outputs will end up on the other side of the tube, even outputs get divided by 2).
08:16:32 <rdococ> I need a way to enable overtype mode in firefox ESR on linux
08:19:01 <\oren\> Ok, now I need to start eliminating these pesky non-Muscovite cultures.
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09:11:07 <int-e> Jafet: btw, in order to get the numerator for all p/q, one could aim for transforming x into x/(1+4x), i.e., p/q into p/(q+4p), which changes neither the numerator nor the parity of the denominator, but maps (0,1) into (0,1/5). Not sure it's worth the extra gadgets, since you'll have to deal with a limited range anyway (the upper bound 1 is basically just as bad as the upper bound 1/5)
09:26:57 <oerjan> int-e: \x -> x/(1+x) maps (0,infty) to (0,1) hth
09:27:55 <oerjan> which combines to \x -> x/(1+5*x), i guess.
09:28:15 <oerjan> if you care about parity, you could probably use 6 there.
09:30:22 <oerjan> i think there's no linear fractional transformation that takes the whole real line to a bounded interval, though.
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09:52:05 <int-e> @tel oerjan Yes, iterating \x -> x/(1+x) 4 times gives the x/(1+4x) I mentioned.
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13:49:56 <int-e> wow... big clanks.
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14:18:00 <^v> https://joust.pxtst.com/ online befunge jousting soon(tm)?
14:18:09 <^v> easter egg on the right
14:26:32 <izabera> john oliver met the dalai lama https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLY45o6rHm0
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15:43:49 <lambdabot> int-e said 5h 51m 43s ago: Yes, iterating \x -> x/(1+x) 4 times gives the x/(1+4x) I mentioned.
15:46:02 <oerjan> randall munroe isn't very good at updating his blag
15:47:36 <rdococ> need ideas for an esoteric markup language
15:48:31 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, although he has posted today's comic not too late
15:48:49 <oerjan> that wasn't _actually_ a markup suggestion, although feel free to use it anyhow.
15:49:24 <oerjan> neither are the foglios, lately. although not as bad as randall, yet.
15:50:51 <b_jonas> argh! this code makes zero sense! I think it abuses some undocumented behavior
15:51:13 <b_jonas> everyone loves nicely documented interfaces
15:53:40 <int-e> "this function does what it does"
15:57:03 <rdococ> oerjan: I was using it as an idea for a programming language
16:18:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51259 * Rdococ * (+842) OW1P1W1OW0P0
16:20:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51260&oldid=51259 * Rdococ * (+172) /* Examples */
16:22:21 <int-e> oerjan: the clanks look unfamiliar to me
16:22:47 <int-e> is it my bad memory or are they new?
16:22:59 <int-e> (is there an explaingg website?)
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16:23:52 <int-e> (I know there's a wikia wiki but does it discuss the latest strips anywhere...)
16:24:19 <int-e> (never mind. they do.)
16:24:29 <oerjan> int-e: the brown ones look similar to the gargoyles colette summoned http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170127
16:25:15 <int-e> oh, right. bad memory it is.
16:25:33 <int-e> (also, the wikia doesn't yet have a page for today's comic)
16:27:36 <oerjan> the green one is somewhat similar to ones at the voltaire family house http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20150909
16:28:15 <oerjan> rdococ: clanks is the term girl genius uses for its steampunk robots
16:28:39 <oerjan> some of which are literally clockwork
16:29:04 <b_jonas> int-e: isn't there a forum for that comic strip, where you can sometimes find explanations related to the current comic buried under a lot of other post?
16:29:04 <rdococ> of course you could just call them steampunk robots
16:29:08 <rdococ> but yay for complexity
16:29:26 <oerjan> rdococ: well it wouldn't make sense in the story
16:29:47 <oerjan> it's an alternate history, and i don't think we're beyond early 1900s at the latest
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16:29:55 <b_jonas> eg. like http://forums.xkcd.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=378731ef437e3510663e2f4924a31d1d or https://forums.questionablecontent.net/ or the Irregular Webcomic forums
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16:30:49 <oerjan> robot _might_ make sense for someone slavic, but the term was not chosen in that world.
16:31:03 <oerjan> "punk" makes no sense whatsoever.
16:31:21 <int-e> b_jonas: perhaps. I was looking for something semi-organized. Maybe I'm asking too much.
16:31:35 <oerjan> also some of the mad scientists clearly understand electricity, so it's not all steam.
16:33:16 <rdococ> Clearly, the best genre is clockpunk, where the Greeks invented the first AGI.
16:33:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: steampunk stuff can still use sparks and Jacob's lanterns, right? it just can't use electronics, or use electricity efficiently
16:34:12 <oerjan> rdococ: that may well have happened in this world, one of the "sparks" (mad scientists) lived in ancient athens.
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16:34:58 <oerjan> b_jonas: the paris control network has been revealed to be electric.
16:35:51 <oerjan> of course it may be the most modern city on the planet - e.g. it has cars.
16:37:59 <oerjan> so it's not very steamy steampunk
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16:38:23 <oerjan> there's dieselpunk too. paris of girl genius might be close to that.
16:38:39 <oerjan> (although i haven't really read that stuff)
16:39:58 <oerjan> also, one of the protagonists has invented the first airplanes. other people use airships.
16:40:57 <b_jonas> rdococ: why, what will replace electricity then?
16:42:26 <b_jonas> is there also atompunk, for robots powered by microfusion reactors?
16:42:56 <b_jonas> and nuclear submarines and satellites powered by thermal batteries with a swab of radioactive material in them?
16:47:27 <rdococ> b_jonas: DNA computing seems kinda promising
16:47:34 <rdococ> also, quantum computers might not use electrons
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16:47:54 <rdococ> what about a language that quantum computers run
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16:50:20 <b_jonas> rdococ: nah, I don't buy DNA computing.
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16:51:08 <rdococ> b_jonas, what about quantum computing?
16:51:53 <b_jonas> rdococ: that's not really an answer. what will you see in machines other than electronics, if some machines use quantum computing?
16:52:16 <h0rsep0wer> you can use the reproduction of a bacteria to crack a pgp key
16:52:54 <b_jonas> DNA computing or soap bubble computing could be an answer, if you really believed that you could use those for quantum computations, but I personally don't think that's likely
16:52:55 <rdococ> b_jonas, quantum computing =/= electricity. you said what will replace electricity; I said quantum computing or DNA computing will.
16:56:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51261&oldid=50265 * Rdococ * (+30) QWOP
16:57:26 <rdococ> QWOP looks kinda like a slightly more useful version of HQ9+ :P
16:57:38 <rdococ> it has the same Q command as HQ9+
17:02:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51262&oldid=51203 * Get52 * (+88)
17:02:13 <\oren\> Valentina Tereshkova, the first woman in space, is 80 years old today
17:02:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51263&oldid=51206 * Get52 * (+63)
17:02:59 <rdococ> I was gonna create a HQ9+ interpreter in QWOP but realized just how long it would be
17:03:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51264&oldid=51263 * Get52 * (+3)
17:03:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51265&oldid=51264 * Get52 * (+17)
17:17:49 <b_jonas> argh, this is ugly, I need to either special case the first iteration or leave an ugly bug that can't be worked aroudn
17:23:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51266&oldid=49901 * Rdococ * (+19) /* Cheating Quines */ Q
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17:35:09 <\oren\> most of my Kerbal rockets could be considered atompunk because I pretty much put a nuclear reactor into event he rovers
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18:34:12 <rdococ> does QWOP count as a joke language or a normal esolang?
18:35:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51267&oldid=51224 * Rdococ * (+24) added QWOP and Oracle
18:38:59 <b_jonas> ais523: I posted that golf code I was talking about on Friday: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/112163/6691
18:39:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51268&oldid=51229 * Rdococ * (+26) Added to uncomputable category
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18:41:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51269&oldid=51247 * Int-e * (+345)
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18:45:59 <int-e> oerjan: to wit, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/merge2.png
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18:48:12 <int-e> and I guess you can actually focus four inputs on a single Q anyway.
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19:05:11 <\oren\> hmm... soem of the most common computers of the 1940's were analog bombsights
19:05:59 <\oren\> I'm thinking about a general analogue programming language
19:06:13 <\oren\> for an abstract analogue computer
19:08:39 <\oren\> all your inputs and outputs are numbers between 1 and -1
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19:19:30 <\oren\> and then the idea is you set up a (potentially very large) "analogue circuit" that includes operations like addition, multiplication, subtraction, but also with hysteresis and such
19:21:56 <\oren\> data can be read from tapes as continuous waveforms rather than individual datapoints
19:24:43 <\oren\> this would mean it's easy to compute for example the position of a missile given accelermoter data, but hard to output hello world
19:25:23 <\oren\> (you would need to figure out how to aim the beam of the cathode ray tube into the shape of the letters)
19:27:38 <\oren\> unless of course, you prepared a tape with the right beam deflections
19:40:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51270&oldid=51092 * DanielJohnBenton * (+274) additions
19:41:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51271&oldid=51270 * DanielJohnBenton * (+65) link
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19:58:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - extensible merge.png]]"
20:03:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51273&oldid=51269 * Int-e * (+697)
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20:17:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51274&oldid=51273 * Int-e * (-6) fix broken input 1
20:17:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - extensible merge.png]]"
20:21:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51276&oldid=51274 * Int-e * (+0) oops, I did it again
20:22:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Int-e * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Trajedy - extensible merge.png]]"
20:22:52 <int-e> I think I got it now
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23:11:44 <HackEgo> monads//Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
23:14:29 <boily> helloochaf. anything interesting happened over the weekend?
23:17:04 <boily> seeing pooches is good.
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23:57:43 <HackEgo> marmite//Marmite is a group mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
23:58:02 <boily> `slwd marmite//s/group/hive/
23:58:05 <HackEgo> marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
23:58:12 <HackEgo> 10354:2017-03-06 <boil̈y> slwd marmite//s/group/hive/ \ 3672:2013-09-07 <oerjän> learn Marmite is a group mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
23:58:27 <boily> haven't had marmite yet.
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00:50:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Ais523 * marked revision 51253 of [[File:Trajedy - zig-zag unfolded.png]] patrolled
00:51:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Ais523 * marked revision 51277 of [[File:Trajedy - extensible merge.png]] patrolled
00:54:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:1105) <kmc> what did fungot say? <fungot> kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. \ 809) <kmc> colemak is for people who think dvorak is too mainstream \ 232) <elliott> 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet! \ 588) <Ngevd> I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish <Ngevd> I don't fit in your quaint little categories \ 1146)
00:54:34 <HackEgo> 2/2:<zzo38> Despite the various chess variants (even Chess 2), even ordinary FIDE chess is a fine playable game. But so can others be!
00:55:04 <shachaf> Taneb: but are you hexhammish
00:55:23 <shachaf> you seem to fit the categorization perfectly hthth
00:56:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51278&oldid=51246 * Ais523 * (+397) you probably only need three counters
00:57:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51279&oldid=51278 * Ais523 * (+0) /* Cheating */ spelling
00:59:14 <shachaf> is there any language whose name suggests that it's a bf derivative but it actually is unrelated twh
01:17:38 <Jafet> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck
01:24:37 <erkin> Mmm, doesn't feel very rigidly structured.
01:25:12 <boily> and oklopol disappeared into the Great Voidy Nether.
01:30:49 <boily> shachaf: I went through the hello world page on the Wiki. many languages that are brainfucky with an unrelated name, and none that have a brainfuckal name but are unrelated.
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01:34:23 <shachaf> Well, it might be infeasible to write hello world in.
01:34:56 <erkin> If it's feasible to write hello world in, it's not a good language.
01:36:41 * boily mapoles erkin with an aubergine
01:37:15 * erkin wipes his tears with an oversized courgette
01:37:15 * boily glares at erkin. “flblblblblblblbl!”
01:38:01 * boily gives erkin some squash potage
01:39:02 <erkin> I can't believe it's butternot.
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02:11:14 <boily> aaaah! forgot to chicken!
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02:30:51 <shachaf> 1F574 MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING [🕴]
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02:44:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51280&oldid=50956 * Rdococ * (+171) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */ ...hopefully
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02:52:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51281&oldid=51260 * Rdococ * (-321) asdf/* Examples */ asdf
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03:34:39 <rdococ> have you seen my new crappy mesolangs?
03:34:54 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Is that like a programming language made by Black Mesa?
03:35:28 <rdococ> if I were to write a half-life-universe lang it would be Aperture-based
03:36:00 <hppavilion1> Jafet: I once clicked the "random" button on the wiki and wound up on Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck
03:36:15 <rdococ> that's really fucked up
03:36:26 <rdococ> brainfucked up, I must say
03:36:27 <idris-bot> (input):1:1: error: expected: ":",
03:36:48 <idris-bot> "-", "->", ".", "/", "/=", ":+",↵…
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03:37:20 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: Startit.
03:37:33 <rdococ> anyway, have you seen QWOP? the esolang, not the game.
03:37:37 <hppavilion[1]> OK, good. No more triggering idris-bot when I use my \punglasses.
03:37:42 <rdococ> it's my worst language yet!
03:38:21 <rdococ> at least QWOP isn't a massive spoiler
03:39:13 <rdococ> "[WARNING: Spoiler alert for all you Homestuck readers.] "
03:40:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51282&oldid=51281 * Rdococ * (+1) /* Overview */ OO not O
04:23:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51283&oldid=51282 * Rdococ * (+14) hi
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05:23:53 <rdococ> I'm developing an uncomputable esolang that can take any function that would take a countably infinite amount of time, and compute it in a finite amount of time.
05:24:04 <rdococ> what would the function return, however?
05:24:43 <rdococ> I was just thinking that, but what about a function that diverges?
05:24:46 <pikhq> Finally, something to run on this: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/infinity.html
05:26:41 <rdococ> I'm planning on a function modifier, that can make a function that runs in a countably infinite amount of time, and run it in a finite amount of time.
05:26:44 <rdococ> what should I call it?
05:26:54 <rdococ> or, should I make it implicit?
05:27:04 <shachaf> I don't know what it would mean.
05:28:21 <rdococ> like the private or public modifiers in C-like languages I think... something like that
05:29:44 <rdococ> fast real loop() { var x = 1; var y = 1; while (true) { y = y/2; x = x + y; }; return x; }; // In this circumstance, the "fast" modifier forces it to take a finite amount of time.
05:31:40 <rdococ> in other words, the "infinity" instruction
05:32:16 <rdococ> does this infinity machine have any assembly language for it yet?
05:34:36 <pikhq> To my knowledge, that paper represents all or essentially all of the work that has been done with the concept.
05:36:34 <rdococ> so should I create an infinity assembly language?
05:36:39 <rdococ> or something with a higher level?
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06:07:13 <rdococ> CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC...?
06:17:03 <rdococ> what do you think about including ℵ numbers and ω?
06:17:47 <^v> ok, https://joust.pxtst.com/ is live
06:17:57 <^v> going to be doing scalability optimizations
06:18:05 <^v> (screenshot) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/1/view/6gfa4butsce90sd/Apps/Shutter/05bba.png
06:18:15 <^v> TL;DR befunge world open for anyone to edit
06:20:55 <^v> pasting works btw
06:34:33 <rdococ> ^v, I think I accidentally your server
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06:42:11 <^v> and should be fixd
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06:48:49 <^v> dont worry about losing warriors
06:48:55 <^v> they will die after 256 spaces
06:50:30 <^v> woah what just happened
06:50:38 <^v> everything bugged out
06:54:00 <^v> seems to be something with the arrays i store the grid, i dont know if its client side
06:58:02 <zzo38> I have book it mention some Scrabble variants. One is Anagram Scrabble, where you are allowed to rearrange the letters of any word you extend, as long as the new word and any words it crosses remain valid. Another way is Ecology Scrabble, where you can exchange a blank tile on the board for the corresponding letter from your hand. And then, Stopwatch Scrabble, which is using chess clocks.
07:02:13 <zzo38> But I thought also of some other variants. One variant is that the designation of blank tiles is not fixed; you may treat it as any letter as long as it would form a valid word (or two valid words with the same letter, if it is at an intersection). When extending a word, you must choose one of the letters that is currently valid, but after it is extended, some of the other letters that may have been valid might no longer be, while there may now be
07:03:29 <rdococ> I will also speak with the proper, yet unnecessary, grammar, and list Scrabble variants because I am bored.
07:04:43 <zzo38> Another variant can be "Backward Scrabble", meaning that a valid word spelled in reverse is also a valid word. (And then I have also seen is "Clabbers", meaning that any anagram of a valid word is also a valid word.)
07:07:41 <rdococ> could the infinite machie represent real numbers?
07:08:18 <rdococ> zzo38: that should be called Baerclsb
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07:33:41 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as a "quantum one time pad"?
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07:51:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Shard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51284&oldid=47032 * Jafetish * (+592) /* Hello world */ new section
07:51:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Shard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51285&oldid=51284 * Jafetish * (+84) /* Hello world */ sign
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08:20:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51286&oldid=51279 * Keymaker * (+297) Brainfuck minus -...
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08:47:37 <shachaf> oerjan: no one said "rjan" between your quit and your join in here in my irc logs hth
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09:26:19 <impomatic> Hmmm... are there any pre-2000 program-based artificial life environments apart from Venus, Tierra, Helix, Corelife, Avida and Evolve 4.0?
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11:09:31 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
11:20:30 <b_jonas> I think I can make the code two or three bytes shorter
11:20:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -n 1; fi
11:21:00 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Oct 28 18:37 bin/' -> quote
11:21:04 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 13 Oct 28 18:37 bin/"
11:21:20 <shachaf> Single quote, double quote.
11:27:41 <b_jonas> yes, two characters were straight out unnecessary... but what was the third character I was thinking of?
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11:44:58 <HackEgo> dok: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
11:50:44 <oerjan> <shachaf> But no "$@" <-- well quote isn't random with arguments
11:57:33 <HackEgo> n juice \ 1/4 ts Pepper, or dough \ 1/4 ts Salt \ 2 ea Garlic cloves, peeled, cooked, thinly \ -- sliced \ 1 c Flour \ 1/2 c Margarine; melted \ Beer -- chopped \ Pepper, seeded and \ -- chopped \ \ Serve with whipped cream ends of honey. Nutrition of each, peaches \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Ti
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12:26:23 <boily> `relcome SirDarius
12:26:24 <HackEgo> SirDarius: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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12:40:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51287&oldid=51128 * Dok * (+918) /* RE: A Python Implementation */
12:41:03 <b_jonas> boily: if you relcome everyone, then do we still need a chanserv entrymsg?
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12:48:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51288&oldid=51102 * Dok * (+730) Add Ackermann function and Pascal's triangle exemples
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14:27:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jafetish * uploaded "[[File:Trajedy - zig-zag step.png]]"
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14:35:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51290&oldid=51256 * Jafetish * (+335) /* Corrected zig-zag test */
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14:53:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51291&oldid=51290 * Jafetish * (+432) /* Memory */ explain why only one scalar can be used
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15:41:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51292&oldid=51276 * Jafetish * (+523)
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15:49:31 <rdococ> I wonder if adding an infinite machine analogue to an FSA or PDA would raise its computational power by one level
15:58:09 <rdococ> Piracy might not be a victimless crime but its victims are massive greedy corporations who deserve it
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16:28:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Infinity (esolang)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51293 * Rdococ * (+2253) infinity
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16:32:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51294&oldid=51280 * Rdococ * (+129)
16:32:46 <hppavilion1> I'm looking for piano sheet music for 99 luftballons
16:33:30 <rdococ> 99 luftballons, doing whatever luftballons do.
16:36:05 <b_jonas> Apparently the SMBC author has written a book.
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16:41:53 <\oren\> https://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/155/canada.png
16:42:58 <\oren\> rdococ is there a cat on your keyboard trying to type meow?
16:45:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Infinity (esolang)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51295&oldid=51293 * Rdococ * (+35) zenozeno
16:45:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Infinity (esolang)]] to [[Zeno]]: Infinity is a bad name for an esolang :/
16:46:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51298&oldid=51296 * Rdococ * (-8)
16:47:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51299&oldid=51294 * Rdococ * (+51) onezonezonez
16:47:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51300&oldid=51298 * Rdococ * (+30)
16:48:21 <rdococ> take a look if you want
16:49:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51301&oldid=51300 * Rdococ * (-20) infinite is also a bad name for a construct
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16:55:44 <rdococ> Can someone deduce the computational class of http://esolangs.org/wiki/QWOP ?
16:56:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51302&oldid=51299 * Rdococ * (+263) wikitablization. or is it wikitablisation? either way, hi irc
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16:57:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51303&oldid=51302 * Rdococ * (+11) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */
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17:36:10 <wob_jonas> I can't access the logs on tunes, is that normal?
17:36:23 <rdococ> well learn about esolangs
17:36:30 <rdococ> more interesting than anything a school would have
17:36:38 <rdococ> especially super-tc ones
17:38:38 <int-e> wob_jonas: "normal" in the sense that the site looks very much offline, yes.
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17:39:08 <int-e> I'd say that isn't normal though ;)
17:42:08 <\oren\> Possible introduction of bread coupons sparks outrage in #Petrograd
17:42:09 <\oren\> HAPPENING NOW: Reports of ‘#Bread’ chants at rally in Petrograd - updates to follow
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17:46:48 <wob_jonas> \oren\: isn't that so last century?
17:47:11 <erkin> Conquest of the Bread
17:51:58 <rdococ> I need an idea for aesoteric data structure
17:55:14 <rdococ> I could have a cyclic list
17:56:04 <rdococ> what about an esolang which can only describe rock-paper-scissors type games
17:56:30 <rdococ> "fire beats earth beats electricity beats water beats ..."
18:05:31 <wob_jonas> rdococ: I had two ideas for an esoteric data structure that I mentioned a few days ago, only I'm not sure if either is possible
18:05:31 <wob_jonas> wait, "The exact ray tracing channel"? you mean like for Trajedy?
18:06:25 <rdococ> even if it isn't possible in real computing, neither is Zeno but I still designed it anyway :P
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18:14:49 <wob_jonas> oerjan: is "The exact ray tracing channel" in the topic a reference to Trajedy? Or something else I'm missing?
18:15:56 <wob_jonas> rdococ: first is a buddy-block allocator that divides the memory to blocks whose address is round not in binary but Zeckendorf. I think this is possible in theory, but probably not worth, because it's not better in any sense than the ordinary binary buddy-block version.
18:18:01 <wob_jonas> rdococ: Second is a mark-and-sweep non-moving exact stop-the-world garbage collector that doesn't need a stack of one word per depth for the mark phase, because it stores the back pointers into forward pointers by xor-encoding. It's possible that this still needs an extra bit or two in each chunk, but that's a price you can probably pay from pointe
18:18:22 <wob_jonas> Sadly it's possible that this latter one is impossible even in theory. I don't know.
18:19:00 <rdococ> do you have any feedback on my esolangs?
18:20:58 <rdococ> or are you busy looking at them?
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18:24:36 <wob_jonas> Does anyone want painted water with freshly squeezed lemon juice? I just made a jug.
18:24:47 <wob_jonas> rdococ: sorry, not going to look at them now
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18:29:13 <int-e> that interpreter is so from the noughties.
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18:51:11 <shachaf> 04:05 -!- oerjan [~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no] has quit [Quit: Later]
18:51:11 <shachaf> 10:14 <wob_jonas> oerjan: is "The exact ray tracing channel" in the topic a reference to Trajedy? Or something else I'm missing?
18:51:14 <shachaf> 10:49 -!- oerjan [~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no] has joined #esoteric
18:51:30 <oerjan> wob_jonas: probably hth
18:52:37 <moony> <Inventions> <GinjaNinja32> moony!moonythedar@m.mo.moo.moon.moony <<< am i doing it right with vhosts?
18:52:52 <moony> thats what vhosts are for right? to slowly spell your name?
18:58:43 <int-e> wob_jonas: yes it is
19:01:10 <\oren\> I should start a new juice-flavoured caffienated soft drink called "Juice Volt!"
19:01:34 * oerjan was thinking int-e responded to moony for half a second
19:03:01 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: BRB).
19:04:00 <int-e> what does reverse DNS have to do with vhosts
19:04:26 <\oren\> wob_jonas: like "Deus Vult" and volt cola. "Juice Volt"
19:04:32 -!- Cale has joined.
19:05:02 -!- Zarutian has joined.
19:05:04 * int-e wonders whether \oren\ knows about the former Vault energy drink
19:05:08 <moony> i stole oerjan's flyswatter just to swat you :<
19:05:47 * oerjan finds this somewhat annoying as he is still attached to the swatter
19:05:49 <wob_jonas> \oren\: ah, so it's some pun that references some other soft drink probably local to wherever you live
19:06:03 <wob_jonas> I only know of Kablamo Cola and Vorti Soda
19:06:23 <\oren\> yes and also references crusader kings 2
19:06:30 <int-e> oerjan: wag the dog!
19:06:50 <oerjan> but shachaf is hogging all the pooches
19:07:11 <\oren\> get the energy you need to retake Jerusalem with Juice Volt!
19:07:17 <oerjan> no:vorte = en:wart, should go down well
19:08:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i cannot wag the dogs then, obviously
19:08:33 <shachaf> extraordinary claims require extraordinary pooch pics
19:09:05 <oerjan> i have no pooch pics nearby.
19:11:16 <\oren\> Hey, I'm Richard Cœur de Lion, and when I'm tired from fighting Salah ad-Din all day I take a quaff of Juice-Volt!
19:15:25 <int-e> rdococ: btw, could you please stop saying that you're bored... it's free of information, it's unlikely to start a conversation (I'd think that after 3 days of this you'd notice), and it makes me look at this channel just to find out that there's nothing interesting to see.
19:16:01 <int-e> and I rather suspect I'm not alone in this.
19:16:21 <shachaf> Better to have contentful text like porthellos and `5s
19:23:21 <moony> rdococ, i swatted you
19:23:27 <moony> i do not have that many 'o' in my name
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19:42:28 <rdococ> what computational class would BF w/o [ and ] be?
19:43:03 <rdococ> all BF minus [] programs halt after all
19:48:50 <rdococ> btw I created an interpreter for an uncomputable language -> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Zeno
19:55:06 <oerjan> rdococ: all it can do is add fixed constants to predestined cells, and move to one of them.
19:55:22 <oerjan> ok, it can also print and input a bit
19:56:06 <rdococ> I was considering, if you can add supertasks to a turing complete language structure to make it super-complete like I did with Zeno, could you do the same with lower computational classes to bring them up one class?
19:57:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Infinity (esolang)]]": Seems redundant now
19:58:56 <moony> oerjan, what was the language about?
19:59:22 <rdococ> oh, I renamed it to Zeno
20:05:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51304&oldid=50603 * Oerjan * (+146) /* Computational class */ This is a central enough case that it should be mentioned here
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20:26:47 <oerjan> well, yesterday's anyway
20:28:17 <oerjan> it seems to have gone from not loading at all to loading like molasses
20:36:28 <oerjan> now i have all the logs *MWAHAHAHA*
20:36:37 <oerjan> (so much for going to bed soon)
20:37:58 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> aaaah! forgot to chicken! <-- and then you were twarted by freenode's antispam quit message censorship
20:39:51 <oerjan> `learn A mesolang is a mediocre esolang. rdococ invented them.
20:39:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'mesolang': A mesolang is a mediocre esolang. rdococ invented them.
20:40:19 <oerjan> `sled mesolang//s,invent,discover,
20:40:25 <oerjan> `slwd mesolang//s,invent,discover,
20:40:27 <HackEgo> mesolang//A mesolang is a mediocre esolang. rdococ discovered them.
20:41:06 <HackEgo> 1/2:welcome \ addscowrevs \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ cwlprits \ dowg \ downvote \ dowt \ emoclew \ grwp \ gwn \ gwni \ hello-world-in-any-language \ howg \ howt \ hwrl \ lastwisdoms \ lowercase \ mkpasswd \ newcmd \ now \ orenbow \ orenbow.raw \ overwrite \ password \ pastewisdom \ pikhqbow \ rainbow \ rainbow.
20:41:11 <HackEgo> 2/2:old \ rainwords \ rawpy \ raw-url \ rwelcome \ show \ slwd \ swat \ swrjan \ thingwords \ w \ walcama \ wälcåmä \ wdit \ wehlcohme \ welcome \ welcome \ wElCoMe \ welcöme \ welkom \ wellcome \ wercome \ whoops \ widsom \ willkommen \ wisdom \ wisdöm \ wl \ wlcm \ wlcmr \ word \ words \ wrlist \ wtf \ xkcdwhatiflist
20:41:23 <shachaf> Ah, right, welcome, rainbow, scow
20:42:06 <oerjan> `1 cd bin; ls *w* | grep '[^aeiou]w{^aeiou]'
20:43:07 <oerjan> that should have caught slwd at least
20:43:31 <oerjan> `` cd bin; ls *w* | grep '[^aeiou]w{^aeiou]'
20:44:58 <oerjan> `` cd bin; ls *w* | cat
20:45:00 <HackEgo> welcome \ addscowrevs \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ cwlprits \ dowg \ downvote \ dowt \ emoclew \ grwp \ gwn \ gwni \ hello-world-in-any-language \ howg \ howt \ hwrl \ lastwisdoms \ lowercase \ mkpasswd \ newcmd \ now \ orenbow \ orenbow.raw \ overwrite \ password \ pastewisdom \ pikhqbow \ rainbow \ rainbow.old \ rainw
20:45:22 <oerjan> `` echo slwd | grep '[^aeiou]w{^aeiou]'
20:45:48 <oerjan> `run echo slwd | grep '[^aeiou]w{^aeiou]'
20:46:53 <oerjan> `` cd bin; ls *w* | grep '[^aeiou]w[^aeiou]'
20:46:54 <HackEgo> welcome \ cwlprits \ grwp \ gwn \ gwni \ hwrl \ mkpasswd \ overwrite \ slwd \ swrjan \ xkcdwhatiflist
20:47:20 <oerjan> `` cd bin; ls *w* | grep '^w[^aeiou]'
20:47:21 <HackEgo> wälcåmä \ wdit \ wElCoMe \ whoops \ wl \ wlcm \ wlcmr \ wrlist \ wtf
20:47:30 <oerjan> `` cd bin; ls *w* | grep '[^aeiou]w$'
20:48:11 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
20:48:56 <HackEgo> 6755:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> ` echo \'echo "${1#* = }" > "${1%% = *}"\' > bin/overwrite \ 6752:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> ` echo \'echo "${1# = }" > "${1%% = }"\' > bin/overwrite \ 6749:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> ` echo \'f=`echo "$1" | sed \'"\'"\'s/ = .*$//\'"\'"\'`;c=`echo "$1" | sed \'"\'"\'s/^.* = //\'"\'"\'`;echo "$c" > "$f"\' > bin/overwrite; chmod +x bin/
20:49:13 <HackEgo> echo "${1#* = }" > "${1%% = *}"
20:49:39 * oerjan has no idea what that does
20:50:09 <moony> `relcome oerjan to the strangelands
20:50:10 <HackEgo> oerjan: to: the: strangelands: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet
20:50:24 <moony> welcome to obusfubash
20:51:09 <oerjan> `overwrite test = hmmmmmmmmm
20:51:26 <moony> bloodrizer.ru/games/kittens/#
20:51:45 <moony> `overwrite test = hrm
20:51:59 <oerjan> `` doag | grep overwrite
20:52:02 <HackEgo> 10358:2017-03-07 <moon̈y> overwrite test = hrm \ 10357:2017-03-07 <oerjän> overwrite test = hmmmmmmmmm \ 6802:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite bin/tomfoolery = if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "I have nothing to tell you.";fi;f="tmflry/$(echo "$1" | lowercase)";if [ -h "$f" ];then exec tomfoolery `readlink "$f" | sed \'s/^tmflry\\///\'`;fi;if [ -x "$
20:52:09 <moony> is that not just a overcomplicated echo '' > file
20:52:23 <oerjan> `1 doag | grep overwrite
20:52:24 <moony> `overwrite lele lele = heh
20:52:30 <HackEgo> 1/10:10358:2017-03-07 <moon̈y> overwrite test = hrm \ 10357:2017-03-07 <oerjän> overwrite test = hmmmmmmmmm \ 6802:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite bin/tomfoolery = if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "I have nothing to tell you.";fi;f="tmflry/$(echo "$1" | lowercase)";if [ -h "$f" ];then exec tomfoolery `readlink "$f" | sed \'s/^tmflry\\///\'`
20:52:34 <HackEgo> 2/10:;fi;if [ -x "$f" ];then exec bash "$f";fi;if [ -r "$f" ];then exec cat "$f";fi;echo "I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking." \ 6798:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite tmflry/cat = A cat is an animal with four legs. It\'s nice to pet, especially when it\'s a baby cat, called a kitten. Or it\'s the unix "cat" command. It takes
20:53:06 <HackEgo> 3/10: a filename (or many) and prints the contents of that (those) file(s). \ 6773:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite tmflry/esolang = Esoteric languages. Usually refers to programming languages designed to be unique, difficult to program in, or just plain weird. See https://esolangs.org for more. \ 6770:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite bin/true
20:53:29 <HackEgo> 4/10:if = if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "Please give me something to check.";fi;bash -c "if [[ $1 ]];then echo \'True.\';else echo \'False.\';fi" \ 6769:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> overwrite bin/trueif = if [ -z "$1" ];then exec echo "Please give me something to check.";fi;bash -c "if [ $1 ];then echo \'True.\';else echo \'False.\';fi" \ 6767:201
20:53:48 <HackEgo> cat: bin/true: No such file or directory
20:54:05 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....d@.....@.......`R..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....ø.......ø....................8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@.....ÔJ......ÔJ........ ............àM......àM`.....àM`...........@........ ...........øM......øM`.....øM`.....à.......à................
20:54:09 <oerjan> oh it was over a year ago
20:54:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: $$: not found
20:54:56 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: 290: command not found
20:55:07 <oerjan> moony: um you're not paying attention
20:55:26 <HackEgo> bash: 296: command not found
20:55:56 <oerjan> moony: we already have `mk, anyhow.
20:56:35 <oerjan> which has cleverly chosen a delimiter you never need in a filename.
20:56:39 <HackEgo> cat: lele lel: No such file or directory
20:58:09 <fizzie> `` rm test test2 index.html index.html.1 out hello_output_test.txt # I don't think any of this is necessary
20:59:39 <fizzie> I'm a little suspicious of wdiff-latest.tar.gz, source and .hg_archival.txt as well.
21:02:22 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ source \ src \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
21:02:32 <oerjan> shachaf: i managed to download the logs, it just took a while
21:02:43 <oerjan> `doag wdiff-latest.tar.gz
21:02:45 <HackEgo> 9220:2016-10-10 <shachäf> fetch http://mirror.keystealth.org/gnu/wdiff/wdiff-latest.tar.gz
21:03:01 <shachaf> I did everything else in tmp/
21:03:24 <HackEgo> 10277:2017-02-16 <oerjän> mkx source//\\? source
21:03:34 <HackEgo> Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
21:03:36 <fizzie> I guess that was supposed to go to bin.
21:03:58 <moony> `` mv source bin/source
21:04:06 <HackEgo> Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
21:04:10 <HackEgo> bin/source source//bin/source source: no such file in rev b14f80266380
21:04:19 <oerjan> you'd think i'd have noticed.
21:04:30 <shachaf> before could use better multi-file handling
21:04:42 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
21:05:25 <oerjan> `doag .hg_archival.txt
21:05:27 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
21:06:20 <HackEgo> repo: 91b847686710739546584c6316a0fb109ba2095c \ node: fc8e6b56392fc6ba11e3fab6ea8b4d96ad8bff2d \ branch: default \ latesttag: null \ latesttagdistance: 1602
21:06:21 <fizzie> Allegedly that has something to do with "hg archive".
21:06:29 <fizzie> I'm hoping it's not too important.
21:07:42 <fizzie> I had enough trouble with .hgignore, I don't want to start thinking about more special files.
21:07:43 <oerjan> <shachaf> please fix twh <-- i tried once, but HackEgo's hg is too old to return that parameter as a list iirc
21:08:03 <shachaf> fizzie: please upgrade HackEgo hg twh
21:08:04 <oerjan> at least i got some awkward error message
21:08:22 <fizzie> Maybe I should update in the chroot one of these days.
21:08:30 <oerjan> shachaf: um the point is i _couldn't_ write lastfiles correctly
21:08:49 <oerjan> i could split on spaces, but that would also be wrong.
21:09:01 <shachaf> the "or fix `before`" was addressed at fizzie hth
21:09:39 <shachaf> Actually you should be able to `fetch a more recent hg for read-only operations.
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21:45:04 <fizzie> Maybe I will attempt to upgramate things, but don't expect miracles.
21:48:21 <shachaf> p. sure i'm going to expect miracles whether you want me to or not
21:48:29 <shachaf> what am i paying you for hth
21:50:26 <fizzie> I think I'll make a copy of the entire chroot, before messing it up totally.
21:52:09 <shachaf> Oh, apparently hg is complicated. Never mind.
21:53:05 <fizzie> I'm attempting to go from wheezy to jessie in there, that'll give you mercurial 3.1.2 if it's new enough.
21:53:28 <fizzie> Will have to take care of a few matters first, though.
21:53:29 <shachaf> I don't know what version we want. oerjan's the expert.
21:53:32 <HackEgo> Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
21:54:11 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
21:58:22 <oerjan> i don't know what version we want either hth
21:59:40 <oerjan> i'd have to look up what the function i wanted to use was. or wait, my botched attempt may be in hg history
21:59:52 <HackEgo> 8452:2016-06-12 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/log/log --removed/ \ 8434:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/....$/-- "$@"/ \ 8432:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/$/ "$@"/ \ 7128:2016-03-06 <oerjän> mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\\n"
22:00:07 <HackEgo> 1/1:8452:2016-06-12 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/log/log --removed/ \ 8434:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/....$/-- "$@"/ \ 8432:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/lastfiles//s/$/ "$@"/ \ 7128:2016-03-06 <oerjän> mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log -l 1 --template "{files}\\n"
22:00:34 <HackEgo> 1/2:8451:2016-06-12 <shachäf> sled bin/before//s/log/log --removed/ \ 8435:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/before//s/-2/"$(hg log --template \'{rev}\\\\n\' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)"/ \ 8433:2016-06-10 <shachäf> sled bin/before//s/files/files "$@"/ \ 8431:2016-06-10 <shachäf> revert \ 8430:2016-06-10 <shachäf> mkx bin/before//(
22:00:40 <HackEgo> 2/2:[[ -n "$1" ]] && echo "$1" || lastfiles) | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done \ 7379:2016-04-14 <shachäf> mkx bin/before//lastfiles | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r -2 "$f"; done
22:01:04 <oerjan> i suppose i only tested it with hg commands.
22:01:43 <oerjan> hm... if i did it in private, i'll have logs myself
22:06:27 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
22:08:10 <oerjan> cannot find it. which means i must have done it in _public_...
22:08:21 <fizzie> I think the issue might've been that you couldn't do "{join(files,'\n')}\n".
22:08:48 <oerjan> it was definitely similar
22:09:22 <fizzie> Or apparently {files % '{file}\n'} should also work.
22:09:37 <fizzie> These were both from the "examples" section of 'hg help templates'.
22:09:56 <oerjan> it knew the parts, but files didn't implement the list operations or something
22:12:08 <fizzie> Yes. {join(files,'\n')} causes an "unknown exception encountered" error, while {files % '{file}\n'} just produced the files as space-separated.
22:12:30 <oerjan> is this fixed in newer hg?
22:12:45 <oerjan> well, i guess you found it in the manual, so...
22:13:28 <fizzie> Guess so. Though I'm looking at hg 4.0 here. But 3.x sounds new enough.
22:13:37 <fizzie> The silly thing is still making a copy of the chroot, however.
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22:53:50 <HackEgo> termite//Termites are genericized ants for intellectual property reasons.
22:54:08 <oerjan> bood pretty much midnily
22:57:18 <boily> bon pas encore tout à fait rendu en sœirjanée!
22:57:22 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 19m 24s ago: <boily> aaaah! forgot to chicken! <-- and then you were twarted by freenode's antispam quit message censorship
22:58:45 <boily> meanwhile, the results are up! http://mahjong-ny.com/news-and-events/steve-smith-wins-2017-rro/
23:00:04 <oerjan> boily: quit messages the first few minutes after you join are ignored, so that spammers cannot use them too efficiently
23:00:10 <fizzie> boily: 02:11 -!- boily [~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net] has quit [Client Quit]
23:00:27 <fizzie> Oh, oerjan already explained.
23:00:32 <fizzie> I was up in the backscrolls.
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23:12:19 <fizzie> `` hg --version | head -1
23:12:20 <HackEgo> Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 3.1.2)
23:12:30 <fizzie> Probably everything is now broken.
23:13:28 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test
23:14:10 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
23:15:37 <\oren\> I need to make sure I go to NRT and not NTR
23:15:46 <oerjan> `mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{join(files,'\n')}" -- "$@"
23:16:23 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
23:16:59 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{join(files,'\n')}" -- "$@"
23:17:06 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
23:17:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: when: not found
23:18:04 <oerjan> `` lastfiles >tmp/test
23:18:43 <oerjan> `` lastfiles >tmp/test2
23:18:52 <oerjan> `` diff tmp/test tmp/test2
23:18:53 <HackEgo> 1c1 \ < bin/lastfiles \ \ No newline at end of file \ --- \ > bin/lastfiles
23:19:05 <HackEgo> tmp/test: ASCII text, with no line terminators
23:19:18 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
23:19:43 <fizzie> You probably want "{join(files,'\n')}\n" if the terminating newline was important.
23:20:26 <HackEgo> doublethink//Doublethink is the ability to hold the right belief. (If you think that you disagree with this definition, think again.)
23:20:27 <oerjan> `mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{join(files,'\n')}\n" -- "$@"
23:20:39 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
23:20:48 <oerjan> before seems rather slow
23:20:54 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
23:20:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdon: not found
23:21:04 <fizzie> Noticed. I don't know what's up with that.
23:21:11 <oerjan> `` echo hi>test; echo ho>test2
23:21:21 <HackEgo> test2//test2: no such file in rev e91affe80bdf
23:21:24 <fizzie> Although I have heard people complain about the start-up time of Mercurial.
23:21:34 <fizzie> Then again, that should apply to lastfiles as well.
23:22:07 <fizzie> `` hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}"
23:22:25 <fizzie> `` hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files % '{file}\n'}"
23:22:30 <HackEgo> résumé//résumé is a French summary. Not a curriculum vitæ.
23:22:32 <fizzie> It just lists that one file.
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23:23:00 <oerjan> `` echo hum>test; echo erm>test2
23:23:25 <fizzie> But what *is* that delay.
23:23:57 <HackEgo> 10370:2017-03-07 <oerjän> mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{join(files,\'\\n\')}\\n" -- "$@" \ 10369:2017-03-07 <oerjän> revert \ 10368:2017-03-07 <oerjän> revert \ 10367:2017-03-07 <oerjän> revert \ 10366:2017-03-07 <oerjän> mkx bin/lastfiles//hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{join(files,\'\\n\')}" -- "$@" \ 8452:201
23:24:30 <fizzie> `` time hg log >/dev/null
23:24:34 <HackEgo> real: 0m3.273s, user: 0m3.240s, sys: 0m0.030s
23:24:40 <HackEgo> `[hd]o[aw][gt] [<filename>] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first.
23:24:41 <fizzie> That in general is a little slow.
23:25:04 <fizzie> `` time hg log -l 1 >/dev/null
23:25:05 <HackEgo> real: 0m0.355s, user: 0m0.590s, sys: 0m0.000s
23:25:11 <fizzie> And that's not, because of the limit.
23:25:33 <fizzie> Maybe `before should somehow manage to do it with hg log -l rather than hg log | tail -n.
23:25:56 <shachaf> like \oren\'s build system
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23:26:33 <shachaf> Imagine if it took a few minutes.
23:26:49 <shachaf> fizzie: How long does it take you to build your things at work? A few minutes?
23:27:03 <fizzie> shachaf: It's probably confidential.
23:27:20 <shachaf> There are plenty of public talks about bazel in the cloud and that sort of thing.
23:27:34 <fizzie> Yes, but not about what I work on.
23:27:49 <fizzie> Let's just say that many things build fast, and some things build not so fast.
23:28:08 <shachaf> But "not so fast" isn't 5 hours, I assume.
23:28:10 <\oren\> why woudl gogle name something after a erb?
23:28:14 <fizzie> Android apps have a thing called Proguard which isn't very parallelizable.
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23:29:21 <shachaf> The internal name for Bazel is Blaze. Citation: https://bazel.build/faq.html
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23:30:10 <boily> \oren\: could you please add 袋 hth
23:30:29 <shachaf> copumpkin doesn't like bazel.
23:30:40 <shachaf> But he doesn't want to say why.
23:30:41 <oerjan> Zelab would be a good name for some evil madsci center
23:30:44 <fizzie> I believe Android builds with make.
23:30:59 <fizzie> Citation: https://source.android.com/source/building.html
23:31:10 <shachaf> You mean Android itself, not your Android programs, I guess.
23:31:23 <shachaf> Chrome builds with -- all sorts of things, I don't know.
23:31:37 <fizzie> There was at least Ninja, GYP and gn.
23:31:47 <shachaf> Those were the three I was about to name.
23:31:59 <shachaf> ChromeOS builds with Portage.
23:32:42 <\oren\> missing from the FAQ: wtf even is Docker
23:33:08 <shachaf> No one knows the answer to that.
23:33:49 <int-e> mountain king is nasty
23:33:54 <shachaf> Can you believe that people manage servers in production environments by doing things like ssh server.blah, vi /etc/foo, apt-get install bar, etc.?
23:34:08 <shachaf> int-e: How far have you gotten?
23:34:11 <fizzie> I do that with HackEgo.
23:34:22 <int-e> V rfcrpvnyyl ungr gur cneg jurer gurl uvqr chmmyrf va n znmr.
23:34:44 <int-e> I got to the room, solved both pillars, but not at the same time ;)
23:34:48 <fizzie> fungot: Are you a production environment?
23:34:49 <fungot> fizzie: i doubt chandler is saying that the project is to write apps and implementations that would rather abide by the rules of how to make a fnord
23:34:55 <shachaf> fizzie: But at least HackEgo's repository is in hg!
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23:35:08 <shachaf> I wouldn't call HackEgo a production environment.
23:35:21 <fizzie> Well, esolangs.org, then.
23:35:38 <\oren\> My website uses tarvcs
23:35:42 <shachaf> It all runs on one machine, at least, right?
23:35:45 <shachaf> int-e: But you know how to find the puzzles, right?
23:35:51 <fizzie> I do have a git repo for config files, I guess that counts a little.
23:36:08 <int-e> shachaf: not if there's a way beyond blind search.
23:36:11 <shachaf> Can you believe that people with multiple machines in multiple physical places manage things that way?
23:36:24 <shachaf> But I guess I shouldn't say more.
23:36:33 <fizzie> I don't find that hard to believe at all, actually.
23:37:19 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use Kubernetes?
23:38:48 <fizzie> Ooh, the "Release Engineering Best Practices at Google" deck is a good source for codename citations.
23:38:53 <fizzie> It's got Rapid, MPM, Sisyphus.
23:39:38 <Jafet> I imagine most production environments are actually run with things like: 0 0 0 * * cp ~bob/etc/foo.updated /etc/foo && pkill -HUP foo
23:40:03 <shachaf> fizzie: I bet Rapid's previous name is confidential.
23:40:22 <fizzie> It's so confidential, I don't even know it. I'm pretty sure it was called Rapid when I joined.
23:40:33 <shachaf> Yes, it was called Rapid when I joined too.
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23:40:38 <shachaf> It was a very bad choice of name.
23:40:50 <shachaf> I think maybe you still see it in emails generated by Rapid or something?
23:41:28 <fizzie> Our team had an internal tool called [REDACTED], which was also a bad choice, we had to rename it to [REDACTED] when it got adopted by others.
23:42:13 <\oren\> Jafet: my website uses C programs instead of shell scripts mostly
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23:52:54 <shachaf> fizzie: I don't think those slides have enough information to be able to cite anything other than the existence of a tool.
23:53:30 <fizzie> I don't know, there's a diagram and everything.
23:54:15 <shachaf> The name "rapid" is pretty good.
23:54:38 <shachaf> I should use this trick for all code names.
23:56:27 <shachaf> Google Buzz was originally called Taco Town. Citation: https://books.google.com/books?id=V1u1f8sv3k8C&ots=BSuTdr8onG&pg=PA377
23:56:54 <shachaf> There's another code name I'd want to mention but I can't find a citation.
23:59:25 <fizzie> I mostly like the fishy code names for the phones (marlin, sailfish, angler, bullhead, shamu, and so on).
00:00:00 <shachaf> I like the naming scheme for your meeting rooms.
00:02:31 <fizzie> I have my weekly 1:1s in Hell.
00:03:01 <shachaf> Soon you'll join this fellow in hell! -- the Wizard of Yendor
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00:10:31 <Jafet> could be worse, like a cafeteria named hell
00:13:17 <Zarutian> Jafet: where you are not sure if that pink gelatinous blob is a) spam with too much gelatin in it, b) some sort of desert, c) something gone bad or d) both all of these and none
00:14:25 <Jafet> well, you'd get a tired movie quote every time your team has a deadline
00:17:40 <Zarutian> redbelly might not be a good name then (is: rauðmagi)
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01:01:49 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:16:43 <HackEgo> ehird//ehird is the person who Taneb definitely isn't.
01:16:56 <HackEgo> bø//Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway. And not just three, but at least _four_ farms. Ah ah ah ah ah!
01:17:39 <HackEgo> 1/3:775) <fungot> olsner: over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax \ 567) (Of Minecraft:) <elliott> So basically I didn't understand what it was at all, I thought maybe you were meant to be like a worm and just sort of wriggle about underground. \ 33) <mycroftiv> [...] s
01:17:40 <HackEgo> 2/3:ometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective \ 724) <itidus21> ais523: thats very zen really <ais523> no, it's more or less the opposite of zen \ 640) <Gregor> pikhq: And of course Rick Perry, saying that there's something wrong with a country where gays can
01:17:43 <HackEgo> 3/3: serve in the military but we don't elect a douchebag as president.
01:18:21 <HackEgo> 7212:2016-03-14 <b_jonäs> learn pbflist is update notification for the Perry Bible Fellowship webcomic. http://pbfcomics.com/
01:20:20 <boily> Long Live Nitia. May the Diæresis be with You.
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02:00:56 <\oren\> wtf, now austria was taken over my savoy?
02:01:29 <shachaf> That's what happens when your builds are slow.
02:01:57 <shachaf> Have you ever noticed that "slow" and "scow" differ by only one letter?
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02:54:00 <zzo38> Is there such a predecimal coin as 2 bob 1 pence?
02:55:22 <shachaf> You mean, currencies called bob and pence with a fixed exchange rate?
02:55:51 <shachaf> according to http://projectbritain.com/moneyold.htm a florin was called 2 bob hth
02:56:32 <zzo38> But that is only 2 bob, not 2 bob 1 pence, it is a bit short. I do know of a florin and it is a bit less
02:56:58 <shachaf> Oh, a coin with that value?
02:57:26 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I mean
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04:27:03 <\oren\> The system in harry potter is all kinds of f'd up
04:27:36 <\oren\> 17 and 29? really? ugh
04:29:03 <shachaf> Prime numbers are more magic.
04:29:28 <Jafet> but are they MoR magic?
04:30:40 <Jafet> of researchers polled about P = NP: “126 (83%) believed the answer to be no, 12 (9%) believed the answer is yes, 5 (3%) believed the question may be independent of the currently accepted axioms and therefore impossible to prove or disprove, 8 (5%) said either don't know or don't care or don't want the answer to be yes nor the problem to be resolved.”
04:40:55 <\oren\> I think the answer is currently no, but it is possible that such problems can be solved by a computer of a different kind
04:42:11 <shachaf> P = NP isn't a question about what computers that you can build can do, it's a question about Turing machines.
04:42:50 <\oren\> right. so I think it might be possible to construct a computer with more theoretical power than a turing machine.
04:43:45 <Hoolootwo> I'm not convinced we can construct a computer with infinite memory :P
04:43:51 <\oren\> at which point P = NP would be rendered a less interesting question
04:44:00 <shachaf> That seems likely (though I doubt you can build a nondeterministic turing machine), but it's irrelevant to P=NP.
04:44:15 <shachaf> I think it's an interesting question anyway.
04:44:33 <Jafet> oh, exactly one of the respondents did not want it to be resolved
04:44:40 <Jafet> job security, I guess
04:44:47 <shachaf> Can you believe people don't even know whether P=PSPACE?
04:44:55 <shachaf> Computer scientists are clueless.
04:45:06 <Jafet> they're to egotistic to take the I out of the picture
05:15:14 <pikhq> At least we're certain P is a subset of PSPACE!
05:15:57 <pikhq> (but if P=PSPACE then P=NP)
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06:15:42 <zzo38> Do you like the shorter implementation of Myth that I made up? Do you like my suggestion of the variant also?
06:19:40 <zzo38> Also, is the link for 140 bytes contest even valid?
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08:45:22 <erkin> shachaf: Where does SPOOCHTIME come into play?
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09:09:11 <shachaf> Is that a combination spoon/pooch?
09:18:08 <int-e> shachaf: I didn't play but if there is a way I suspect I know what it is. (naq vg'f npghnyyl n znc... whfg cynprq va n jnl gung lbh unir frireny zvahgrf gb pbzcyrgryl sbetrg nobhg vg)
09:18:41 <int-e> and if that's it it's something that I might have missed forever anyway.
09:20:11 <shachaf> No spoilers saying it now since you'll certainly check.
09:21:13 <shachaf> I suppose saying it existed was kind of spoilers.
09:36:14 <int-e> I should've expected this, rather than thinking that the developers are a bunch of assholes, but I opted for the latter :P
09:37:03 <shachaf> But memorizing the path is still annoying.
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09:45:15 <int-e> I'm considering to use pen and paper.
09:52:57 <shachaf> What you need is someone next to you who can focus on remembering the path.
09:53:19 <shachaf> One time I got lucky and the correct path was all the way to the right and then all the way up.
09:53:30 <shachaf> But then I did badly on a bunch of other puzzles.
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11:26:00 <int-e> shachaf: I'm also planning on just restarting if the path is not a zigzag :P
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11:38:42 <b_jonas> I golfed down my code 5 further bytes
11:38:45 <HackEgo> styrofoam//styrofoam is Taneb's only weakness.
11:39:07 <boily> b_jellonas. aiming for the most golf code?
11:39:17 <boily> bon matœrjan! couldn't sleep?
11:39:42 <b_jonas> boily: not necessarily, but I want to golf it while keeping the underlying beauty of how the evaluation step is just pack-unpack-pack-unpack
11:39:53 <b_jonas> boily: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/112163/6691
11:39:57 <oerjan> and then woke up after 5 hours or so
11:40:17 <b_jonas> you could probably get a somewhat shorter solution that doesn't try to use this method, but like arrays or bitwise stuff or something
11:40:25 <oerjan> why isn't my unlambda code working when my previous test did :(
11:40:37 <b_jonas> if you do, you should post it separately
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11:45:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish i]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51305&oldid=30640 * GermanyBoy * (+243) added link to implementation
11:46:59 <oerjan> (then apply argument to i if you succeeded)
11:48:09 <oerjan> i'm trying to debug my code in TIO, but something's wrong even though the central part is already tested.
11:49:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish i]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51306&oldid=51305 * GermanyBoy * (+148) added note about interpreters
11:58:39 <oerjan> now i cannot get the already tested part to work :(
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12:09:30 <oerjan> ok the part tested before that still works.
12:13:22 <HackEgo> The password of the month is n9y25ah7
12:13:53 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is OSBDemoLap9W53!
12:13:56 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is OSBDemoLap9W53!
12:17:21 <boily> where do the passwords of the month come from?
12:19:16 <oerjan> oh duh i forgot the self application
12:19:29 <oerjan> i have no idea where the latest one came from
12:19:37 <int-e> boily: well, for the last two, one was a tweet by Sean Spicer, and the other comes from a CIA document leaked by Wikileaks.
12:20:47 <int-e> (I guess that means I should be sorry for all residents who are government contractors or employees with security clearance in the US)
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12:23:32 <int-e> oerjan: well what *are* you trying to do?
12:23:49 <oerjan> i'm trying to parse a digit in unlambda.
12:23:55 <oerjan> into a church numeral.
12:24:21 <oerjan> the part of my code that counts v's until the next i argument is working.
12:24:45 <oerjan> the part that _skips_ v's until the next i argument, then passes to the first part _was_ working previously.
12:24:56 <oerjan> or so i thought my test showed.
12:25:55 <oerjan> (once i have those, it should be a simple matter of wrapping `?9`?8 ... around it.
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12:33:29 <oerjan> ok it's working again. i'm not entirely sure what i changed in the test code, i may have confused i's and v's.
12:38:36 <oerjan> gah now i'm forgetting the @
12:40:53 <oerjan> @unlambda ``@i````?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii.*i
12:41:19 <oerjan> @unlambda ``@i````?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii.*i7
12:42:31 <oerjan> next step: parsing a whole number
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14:07:05 <Taneb> I've just unofficially heard that I'm going to be offered PhD funding
14:08:38 <b_jonas> I mean, roughly where and in roughly what topic, you don't have to give the detailed phd research program you have to submit here, only a very short version
14:12:15 <Taneb> Newcastle University, applying graph theory for compilers targetting many-core architecture
14:13:21 <b_jonas> Sounds scary, which is normal for a PhD research topic. Thanks.
14:13:56 <Taneb> With the guy who wrote this: https://blogs.ncl.ac.uk/andreymokhov/graphs-a-la-carte/
14:14:00 <Taneb> (warning: Haskell)
14:14:36 <int-e> you make Haskell sound scary
14:14:48 <int-e> when in reality it's just lens :-P
14:15:21 <int-e> (I mean that's what is scary, to me...)
14:41:31 <int-e> Taneb: thanks for the link though I'm really more interested in the predecessor post :)
14:42:13 <Taneb> Ah, I meant to link to that one
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14:57:44 <int-e> fun little exercise
14:58:23 <int-e> (this one: "prove that ε is the identity of + from the minimal set of axioms above. [...] Also prove that + is idempotent")
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16:07:40 <rdococ> could you give an FSA or PDA-level language a surreal "forever" construct/zeno construct/infinity construct that would allow it to run countably infinitely many instructions in finite time, and would it gain a computational level as a result?
16:09:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fsa it would be useless because fsas all halt or recur anyway
16:11:09 <Phantom_Hoover> offhand i can't immediately tell from google whether halting is decidable for PDAs
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16:34:07 <rdococ> I think the FSA equivalent to the zeno construct would be allowing an infinite number of states
16:34:39 <rdococ> which, does, indeed, make it TC, I believe
16:36:36 <rdococ> and allowing an uncountably infinite number would probably make it super-TC
16:38:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51307&oldid=51301 * Rdococ * (+30) yaya
16:40:22 <rdococ> what about hyper-lazy evaluation
16:40:59 <rdococ> expressions are never evaluated, even when needed. they are only evaluated when they need to be printed to the screen.
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16:58:57 <Phantom_Hoover> <rdococ> I think the FSA equivalent to the zeno construct would be allowing an infinite number of states
16:59:09 <Phantom_Hoover> this is basically just turning it into a turing machine
17:00:39 <rdococ> <rdococ> which, does, indeed, make it TC, I believe
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17:04:46 <Phantom_Hoover> sure, my point is more that it's not a very interesting way of making it tc
17:06:28 <rdococ> I really want a more intriguing way to make a TC language super-TC, other than adding a surreal forever construct
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17:16:58 <Taneb> int-e, I ended up proving that in Agda
17:24:41 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, given the axioms that + is commutative ans associative, (G, →, ε) is a monoid, → distributes over +, and x → y → z = x→y + x→z + y→z, prove that ε is the identity of +, and that + is idempotent
17:24:47 <Taneb> (taken from https://blogs.ncl.ac.uk/andreymokhov/an-algebra-of-graphs/ )
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19:02:44 <int-e> hmm, Isabelle makes this almost pointless
19:04:23 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Graph.thy.png
19:04:54 <int-e> (those "metis" lines were generated by sledgehammer... no manual collecting of facts was involved)
19:06:45 <int-e> (the Graph.thy file is there too but it's not very readable with the text encoded unicode symbols)
19:07:43 * oerjan solved that exercise in a vim window
19:08:44 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/graph.trs is what I produced manually
19:09:09 <int-e> (it's a .trs file because I tried to use a completion tool on it but the one I used failed)
19:09:18 <oerjan> argh no newlines in IE
19:09:47 <oerjan> the source view was better
19:09:47 <int-e> hmm, no content-type, I may be able to fix that
19:10:54 <oerjan> int-e: why do you hate infix notation tdnh
19:11:25 <int-e> now it's text/plain would that be better?
19:11:51 <int-e> then I don't know what the problem is.
19:12:12 <int-e> oerjan: I don't hate infix, I just wanted to stick to the TRS format... and then suddenly I was adding 5 terms.
19:12:31 <int-e> so I gave in at that one point :P
19:13:58 <int-e> shachaf: after all that practice yesterday I beat the mountain king in two attempts today
19:15:11 <oerjan> your first two lemmas are the same as my first two lines, at least
19:15:16 <int-e> 517+105. +100 was the rpyvcfr, I thought it fitting to do that right after that race.
19:15:27 <oerjan> (after i cleaned it up)
19:17:23 <oerjan> but then i did idempotency from that
19:17:32 <int-e> also I proved +(0,0) = 0 last.
19:17:46 <oerjan> um that's your second lemma
19:18:12 <oerjan> ok. because that made the rest trivial.
19:19:24 <oerjan> although i had z = e + z + z earlier.
19:20:32 <oerjan> hm Taneb said + was commutative, did you ignore that?
19:22:04 <int-e> it's possible that I didn't think of using it somewhere
19:22:15 <int-e> but I did not consciously choose to ignore it
19:22:34 <oerjan> well you have both left and right identity lemmas
19:22:53 <int-e> didn't think of it too much :P
19:24:11 <int-e> now that you mention it, it's funny that the two proofs in isabelle come out so differently
19:26:23 <int-e> anyway, commutativity is indeed not needed to prove those three laws. fun.
19:28:17 <int-e> nor is the associativity of the arrow? fancy.
19:30:36 <int-e> associativity of the arrow follows from the remaining laws. fun.
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19:34:40 <shachaf> int-e: Sounds like you have more jams than I do.
19:34:46 <shachaf> int-e: Are you going for all the jams?
19:34:52 <int-e> Ah. (x --> y) --> z = (x --> y) --> (E --> z), and then you can do decompositions...
19:35:21 <int-e> shachaf: I don't know yet. But I've googled maximum scores now... I might just try.
19:36:43 <shachaf> Did you listen to the eclipse lecture?
19:40:02 <int-e> please ignore the proof attempt, proving (x --> y) --> z = (x --> y) --> z may not be so interesting after all.
19:40:15 <int-e> shachaf: nothing fancy, some pasta with sausages
19:44:06 <int-e> never mind the associativity, I had messed up the decomposition law... formalization doesn't prevent typos :-(
19:45:37 <int-e> I didn't make it myself if that's what you mean.
19:46:53 <int-e> I didn't spend much time in the kitchen either ;)
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20:16:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Natyre]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51308 * Keymaker * (+2697) Time for this one to see the daylight... A new type of counter machine language.
20:16:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Keymaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51309&oldid=46759 * Keymaker * (+69) Listed Natyre.
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20:21:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Keymaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51310&oldid=51309 * Keymaker * (+68) Forgot something...
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20:34:06 <oerjan> @unlambda ``@``` `d``s`k`s``s`ks``s`kk``?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii`s`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski i .* i4
20:34:07 <lambdabot> error, called at Main.hs:45:38 in main:Main
20:35:07 <oerjan> @unlambda ``@i``` `d``s`k`s``s`ks``s`kk``?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii`s`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski i .* i4
20:37:03 <oerjan> @unlambda ``@i``` `d``s`k`s``s`ks``s`kk``?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii`s`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski ```s``s`kski``s``s`kski .* i2
20:37:03 <lambdabot> ******************************************
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21:03:20 <hppavilion1> At 2.122e+10 YHz, a sound travelling through air would (in an ideal environment) have a wavelength at the Planck Length
21:03:34 <hppavilion1> Anything higher pitched than that and physics would break (I'm pretty sure).
21:03:53 <hppavilion1> (I mean, obviously you'd just mess up the air eventually, but that's in theory)
21:07:00 <oerjan> remember that the frequency also is proportional to the single particle energy
21:07:21 <oerjan> so the sonon is going to be earth-shattering.
21:08:00 <oerjan> hm it must be called something else.
21:14:21 <\oren\> I wonder what frequency is the physical maximum
21:15:20 <\oren\> at a certain point vibrating object would be supersonic
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21:16:13 <wob_jonas> ais523: I posted that modified obfu stuff I was talking about the last Friday. http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/112163/6691
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21:28:38 <wob_jonas> Though I prefer the original obfu post to this golf version.
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22:14:57 <oerjan> hm program is not returning the right number, but it _is_ calling the right I/O functions in the right order.
22:15:14 * oerjan learning how to printf debug unlambda
22:15:58 <oerjan> it's easy for a primitive function, just put `d`.D where D is your chosen debug character.
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22:17:35 <oerjan> i need to find a way to print the recursion argument... it _should_ be a church numeral so it's just a matter of where to put the dang thing
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22:30:52 <oerjan> ok, all but the first iteration gets passed a 1
22:33:16 <wob_jonas> oerjan: are you writing unlambda by hand? or compiling from a more readable language?
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22:38:50 <wob_jonas> oerjan: do you at least use some sort of interpreter in unlambda and writing most of the code in an interpreted language?
22:39:11 <oerjan> i am sort of trying to golf it
22:39:26 <oerjan> which is miserably failing on pure length terms
22:39:32 <wob_jonas> you can still help golfing with an optimizing compiler
22:42:31 <oerjan> then i'd have to write one and i've never really done that. i have a sort of slightly-optimizing abstraction eliminator which i'm not really using because it's missing subtleties.
22:43:13 <oerjan> <http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ulify2.scm>
22:44:39 <oerjan> i'm not good at telling programs how to make judgement calls.
22:45:50 <oerjan> also, unlambda isn't good for parsing, that's sort of my _problem_ here...
22:46:47 <oerjan> right now, i'm trying to debug a program for parsing a simple ]-terminated number
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22:58:10 <HackEgo> soap//Soap is the main ingredient for the iridescent visions that internet startups sell to investors.
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23:04:59 <boily> did you sleep between?
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23:19:55 <oerjan> hm curious, the calculation is performed but not passed on to the recursion...
23:22:02 <boily> there is no recursion.
23:22:20 <oerjan> indeed, unlambda strictly only has self application.
23:22:46 <HackEgo> Your wise ass-@messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:23:48 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 673:2012-08-27 <shachäf> run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan \ 2649:2013-04-13 <shachäf> sed -i \'s/$/ And hates Roald Dahl./\' wisdom/oerjan \ 2650:2013-04-13 <shachäf> sed -i \'s/\\. And/ who/\' wisdom/oerjan \ 4652:2014-06-06 <s
23:24:18 <boily> oerjan is the most shachafed person.
23:24:48 <shachaf> `swrjan s,.*ord,evil overlord,
23:24:50 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your evil overlord he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:25:03 <shachaf> `swrjan s,.*lord,evil overlord,
23:25:05 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your evil overlord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:25:20 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:26:02 <oerjan> the ciiiircle of something
23:26:36 <boily> wait. there's a `swrjan command now?!?
23:27:13 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/ "/ “/;s/" /” /
23:27:14 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word “amortized” so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
23:27:40 <shachaf> oerjan is evil but not to the point of evilquotes
23:28:36 <boily> itym beautyquotes hth
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23:29:14 <oerjan> well i am a wikipedian
23:29:41 -!- tromp has joined.
23:30:02 <shachaf> Oh, would you like to fix some Wikipedia articles for me?
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23:35:59 <oerjan> ``````sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`d``s`k`s``s`ks``s`kk``?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`s``s`ksk`k``s`k`ss``s`kkk`kii`s`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s`d
23:36:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `````sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`kd``s`k`s`kk``s``s`ks``s``s`kskk`k`d``s`k`s``s`ks``s`kk``?0`?1`?2`?3`?4`?5`?6`?7`?8`?9```sii``s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`kk``s`kd``s`kk``sii`k``ss`k`k````sii``s`k`s`k`s`kc``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk``s`k`s`ks``s`k`s`kk`
23:36:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: k`s`@?]k`ki.*i42]: not found
23:36:24 <oerjan> oh, and it didn't fit either
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23:37:24 <oerjan> a working number parser in a mere 418 bytes of unlambda
23:37:47 <oerjan> (did i mention i was theoretically golfing)
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23:59:44 <Zarutian> I know what first, second and third world as phrases was reffering to but what do they mean now?
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00:11:49 <Marcela_Gandara1> La verdad estemos alertas de lo que viene http://www.google.co.ve/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DBuDMKINx-M8&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjbkYvvjsjSAhWmilQKHbR3CE4QtwIIOzAH&usg=AFQjCNGZ1oIIWXF8iC3_5QmHHelJH5KzjA
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00:22:35 <HackEgo> pdf//PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
00:23:09 <boily> can't agree more. I passion fruitly hate PDFs.
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00:26:39 <zzo38> PDF is full of stupid
00:26:41 <boily> it's a horrible mess of random cross references with undocumented half-assed pseudo-features that may work in almost all readers almost all the time, sometimes.
00:28:59 <boily> it is the embodiement of schizophrenia. when delving into its putrid innards you can feel in your soul the very bureaucratic essence that permeates its wretched labyrinthine layout. so many different teams and braindead decisions hurled at the format after eternal meetings...
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00:35:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51311&oldid=51267 * Mattmon666 * (+37) Added Mostawesomeprogramminglanguage
00:36:45 <boily> bletch. that language is bad.
00:43:26 <fungot> boily: dear fnord i keep fnord things i said?
00:43:39 <fungot> shachaf: you didn't answer my question, but it was fun. next time, just really interested.) no.
00:47:33 <boily> Zarutellon. PS is saner.
00:48:29 <Zarutian> boily: yeah, PDF is supposed to be 'intrepreted PostScript' but I do not believe it
00:49:52 <Zarutian> zzo38: I have heard that acronym as in Digital Video Interface and Double Video Interlace but not in the context of vector graphics or documents
00:50:18 <boily> PDF is part PS, part unknown things, part JavaScript, part XML, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some chopped beers in there.
00:50:22 <shachaf> zzo38: Is Gopher better than HTTP?
00:51:22 <zzo38> shachaf: For some things yes
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00:52:22 <zzo38> (But for other things HTTP is better, or at least would be if it weren't abused so much)
00:54:51 <zzo38> (not all other things, but some other things)
00:58:29 * Zarutian would prefer electronic communities distributed artifact|asset|blob storage where each thing in it is identified by the cryptographic hash(es) of its contents.
01:03:37 <Jafet> bittorrent communities have distributed PDFs! with sha-1 hashes!
01:05:17 <shachaf> Is a distributed PDF the same thing as a PDF of a distribution?
01:05:39 * boily fears the concept of a PDF of a distro
01:06:39 <HackEgo> 1121) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers.
01:08:18 <Jafet> boily would fear this, then https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo02.pdf
01:09:04 <boily> pocorgtfo? Proof of Concept Organisation Télévision Française de l'Ontario?
01:09:05 <Jafet> “Curious readers might want to run qemu-system-i386 -fda pocorgtfo02.pdf”
01:11:37 <boily> strangely, I'm not yet fearing it.
01:13:06 <boily> no way in hell am I piping that thing into qemu.
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01:32:57 <tswett> So I've been thinking about creating some kind of "fantasy game console emulator".
01:33:17 <zzo38> Can you describe what that means?
01:33:31 <tswett> It's an emulator, except it's for a game console that's never really existed; it's one that was designed solely for this emulator.
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01:34:03 <shachaf> Like the Java virtual machine, or the Z-machine?
01:34:11 <boily> tswellott. like the PICO-8?
01:34:58 <zzo38> What instruction set? An existing one, or a new one?
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01:35:30 <tswett> shachaf: yeah, something like that.
01:35:43 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like the Z-machine?
01:35:54 <tswett> boily: PICO-8 was the inspiration, but doesn't that just use plain old Lua?
01:36:04 <tswett> That's not nearly as fun.
01:36:04 <shachaf> Does one of the Zs in zzo38 stand for the Z-machine?
01:36:15 <zzo38> shachaf: The letters in "zzo38" stand for nothing
01:36:23 <tswett> I think I'd use an existing instruction set. The 8080 processor seems pretty nice.
01:36:55 <zzo38> But I do like Z-machine and have written two implementations (one in C, and one in JavaScript), and partially made a third (in 6502 assembly language, for Famicom)
01:37:42 <zzo38> I don't like Inform much
01:39:06 <tswett> I've heard a lot about the Z-machine but I've never actually looked at the instruction set or anything.
01:40:22 <boily> ¡Z! ¡El hombre con el sombrero nos envió! ¡Él nos contó muchas historias asombrosas! ¡Ho ho ho ho ho!
01:40:31 <shachaf> Do you like spells whose names start with F?
01:40:43 <zzo38> Here is a document http://zzo38computer.org/backup/zspec/zip_old.txt
01:41:19 <zzo38> Not all of the spell names is start with F, it can be other letters too, but so is "frotz" one of the Zork spells too.
01:42:06 <zzo38> Also see http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/doc/tricky.txt it is the "Tricky Document" of Z-machine, with many ideas for optimizations and other stuff
01:42:58 <zzo38> (Many of the things in Tricky Document are things that probably nobody (or hardly anyone) has ever done before.)
01:43:57 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like Zork: Grand Inquisitor?
01:44:05 <zzo38> I have never played it
01:44:44 <shachaf> Can you run graphical Microsoft Windows games?
01:44:50 <shachaf> If so maybe you should try it.
01:45:28 <tswett> Looks like the Z-machine is kind of complicated compared to the 8080?
01:45:46 <shachaf> What axioms does the Zermelo machine support?
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01:47:39 <zzo38> I am on Linux it can't run Windows program.
01:48:02 <zzo38> However, SCUMMVM may be able to run it, and possibly Wine also might
01:48:54 <tswett> Lemme figure out how fast the 8080 was.
01:49:27 <Jafet> among other things, the axiom of choice, also known as the “Z's lemma”
01:49:33 <tswett> Let's suppose I just want to fill some memory with a value. What's the fastest way to do that?
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01:50:10 <shachaf> zzo38: whoa whoa whoa, ScummVM supports ZGI
01:51:24 <tswett> The fastest way is probably a little bit of trickery. Set the stack pointer to the beginning (or the end?) of that region and repeatedly push a value, then restore the stack pointer.
01:51:44 <shachaf> Why would that be fastest?
01:53:27 <tswett> Well, that fills 2 bytes per 11 "states". I'm pretty sure a "state" corresponds to one clock cycle.
01:54:04 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like gnusto?
01:56:12 <tswett> One alternative is to use MOV to fill 1 byte, taking 7 states, then INX to increment the memory pointer register, taking another 5 states. Much slower.
01:57:14 <fizzie> BytePusher is a little reminiscent of a console. (Very little.)
01:58:05 <tswett> shachaf: so... why *wouldn't* that be the fastest?
02:01:02 <zzo38> One thing you could do is to have a separate video processor with the video instruction set that I made up for a new computer machine, but you could make the video registers a bit different if you want to
02:01:29 <tswett> Yeah, I found the part of the manual where it talks about "states". One state = one period of the clock signal.
02:01:45 <Zarutian> tswett: z-machine was meant to be really portable.
02:03:10 <zzo38> Yes, Z-machine is really portable, can probably implement on Famicom too (I have partially done so, and it uses a new mapper I invented for that purpose)
02:04:42 <Zarutian> zzo38: such a machine reminds me of a machine that I recently read a reference to, basically it has two processors. One that performs your program, the other handles video terminal emulation with support for NAPLPS, DEC ReGIS and some subset of RIPSCRIP and I think limited PostScript too. (The last two were added at later date)
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02:08:49 <tswett> Looks like the 8080 came in a couple flavors. The fastest seems to be the 8080A-1, with a minimum clock period of 320 nanoseconds.
02:09:04 <tswett> I wanna do a little calculation here. How much memory can you fill in 1/24 of a second?
02:10:54 <tswett> 1/24 seconds * (1 state / 320 nanoseconds) * (2 bytes / 11 states) = 23,674 8/33.
02:15:18 <Zarutian> tswett: depends on the memory. SRAM? What kind of address decoder setup, CAS and RAS? most likely not. Probably octal or hex decoders
02:16:09 <Zarutian> but yeah I think you are in the ballpark with that calculation
02:17:33 <tswett> That's assuming that the speed of the memory isn't a limiting factor.
02:19:19 <tswett> So, that's *barely* enough to keep a 256-color Game Boy-sized display happy. That's 23,040 instructions.
02:19:54 <tswett> Er... pixels. 23,040 pixels.
02:22:06 <tswett> Lemme calculate a bit more. If you have 24 frames per second, then 320 nanoseconds per state means you get 130,208 states. The PUSH instructions for filling the display take 126,720 states, leaving you with 3,488 states to do everything else.
02:22:10 <tswett> So, needless to say...
02:22:52 <tswett> I probably shouldn't expect an 8080 to output 24 Hz 160x144 256-color video.
02:30:18 <Zarutian> now you know why Game Boy uses four layers of tiles and some number which I dont recall now of sprites
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02:58:47 <Zarutian> or the Ataris that use display lists.
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03:19:26 <tswett> Yeah, you could provide some kind of graphics coprocessor thing.
03:20:08 <tswett> One thing that would be really useful would be a "fast rectangle copy" instruction. Tell it about a rectangle somewhere in memory, it'll copy it somewhere else.
03:23:54 <tswett> Yeah, that's a good idea.
03:25:55 <Zarutian> and related to this kind of graphics, you should read about the neat algorithm to rotate something less than 90 degrees without loss or interpolation. It is called rotation by three sheers (or shears I dont remember exactly what it is called)
03:26:25 <Zarutian> (rotating by 90 degrees is relatively straight forward)
03:28:41 <tswett> Rotation by three shears. That's pretty interesting.
03:31:10 <Zarutian> can be done with no additional memory
03:32:58 <Zarutian> another neat trick in this kind of stuff is how Apple Mac OS 9 and earlier stored clipping masks
03:36:12 <tswett> I'm gonna keep monologuing.
03:37:53 <tswett> Suppose we go with the Game Boy-sized display. 160 by 144, or 23,040 pixels. That's... really big, compared to the 64 kiB address space of an 8080 processor.
03:38:11 <tswett> I'm going to pretend that I'm going to use an *actual* 8080 processor for this fantasy game console.
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03:40:02 <tswett> Now, we could go a little crazy and say you get 32-bit color, a big display, lots of buffers, and you can use arbitrary blend modes for your transfer operation.
03:40:18 <tswett> That actually sounds pretty interesting.
03:43:03 <tswett> Lemme see what the "well-defined" blend modes are...
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03:47:19 <tswett> Well, the "well-behaved" blend modes can all be made out of addition, multiplication, and clipping.
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04:15:51 <zzo38> Another way can be an instruction (or coprocessor), you tell it the width, height, and pitch, of source and destination, an optional transparency value, an optional lookup table, and optional second buffer, and if the second buffer is used also the bit operation to perform; you can also specify an optional stop value. Using this is not only for picture, but also to implement strcpy() and memfrob() too.
04:16:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51312&oldid=51287 * Quintopia * (+55) ensure tunneling level is nonnegative
04:19:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51313&oldid=51312 * Quintopia * (+163) response
04:19:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51314&oldid=51313 * Quintopia * (+88) sig
04:21:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Rain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51315&oldid=51314 * Quintopia * (+38) /* A Python Implementation */ make [] nops
04:24:57 <zzo38> The dimensions of both sources and of the destination have to match, but the pitch (the address difference from one scanline to the next) can differ in each case. A further extension can be a three-dimensional copy, with two pitches, which would allow doing such thing as copying only the alpha channel of a picture, or a string of 16-bit characters into a string of 8-bit characters. If the pitch of the source is zero, then you can even implement mem
04:25:56 <zzo38> A negative pitch can be used to perform the copy in reverse (to avoid problems with copying overlapping buffers), or to reverse a string or flip a picture.
04:32:18 <quintopia> are you discussing methods for bitblting?
04:36:55 <zzo38> I mean if there was such an instruction or coprocessor or whatever, to do this kind of bitblting then
04:37:02 <zzo38> And then there is other uses for it too
04:40:23 <tswett> You could just have an arbitrary-dimensional copy, where you specify a sequence of (length, offset, pitch) values for both source and destination.
04:41:15 <tswett> Or is it... yeah, I dunno.
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06:17:06 <zzo38> How does Apple Mac OS 9 and earlier stored clipping masks?
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06:59:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51316&oldid=51042 * Rdebath * (+12) Upgrade deadlink to archive.org link
07:05:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51317&oldid=51316 * Rdebath * (-6) Follow redirection and reorg
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07:16:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51318&oldid=51317 * Rdebath * (+13) Origin server wiped/missing archive.org incomplete
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07:41:48 <rdococ> clearly a langiage that has five instructions; k, i, j, b and h
08:33:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51319&oldid=51307 * Rdococ * (+1) /* Overview */
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08:55:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Image]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51320 * Rdococ * (+1283) Lol
08:56:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51321&oldid=36455 * Rdococ * (+160) /* Text - lame. */ yay Image
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11:45:15 <HackEgo> boxmodel//boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
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12:18:17 <boily> @tell oerjan ring ring ring ring ring ring ring, banana phone ♪
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12:23:34 <lambdabot> boily said 5m 15s ago: ring ring ring ring ring ring ring, banana phone ♪
12:23:40 <oerjan> boily: your message has appeal
12:24:46 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s ← the most persistent earworm I know
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12:54:37 <b_jonas> `everydayheroeslist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2386569/defining-success/
12:54:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: everydayheroeslist: not found
12:54:47 <b_jonas> `eheroeslist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2386569/defining-success/
12:54:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eheroeslist: not found
13:02:31 <Jafet> `` echo /bin/e*h*list
13:03:21 <pledis> whaf do you yhink aviuy me about me i think this is a aprogramming kanagauage and when uou insert sthid inyi the interoretser tit wil out out a nelli mworld mrssave
13:10:31 <Jafet> hm, I xan'f sofk ouf whaf sthid jeahs
13:12:29 <pledis> rhaks j think of that tok but if yoh type kut hekli world jn this knyetoregeinteroteter it will out out thello world
13:16:34 <b_jonas> fungot, what do you think?
13:16:34 <fungot> b_jonas: i said web access, i would've said fnord instead of just " message=divide by zero" is displayed when you're entering a state-of-the-art car wash!!
13:16:49 <b_jonas> fungot, are your messages easier to understand than pledis's?
13:16:50 <fungot> b_jonas: what then? feed me with your ' fnord' mean in that context
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15:20:55 <HackEgo> olist 1067: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:49:48 <rdococ> has anyone seen my new language, Image, yet? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Image
15:57:14 <Jafet> hashlife turns out to be pretty easy in mathematica: https://gist.github.com/Jafet/9a39a8325f225853d6dbb1459e12169f
15:57:50 <Jafet> (shachaf: do you like this?)
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16:26:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ℒ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51322&oldid=33934 * Get52 * (-6) removed double negative
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16:47:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51323&oldid=51303 * Rdococ * (+119)
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18:15:28 <\oren\> hold on, is kaizen just the word 改善する? as in, the verb "to make better"?
18:15:33 <\oren\> yeah just fucking make things better, nice management idea youve got there
18:19:44 <pikhq> "Kaizen" is the *US* term for some of the practices
18:19:50 <pikhq> employed by e.g. Toyota.
18:20:19 <pikhq> It's... not exactly referred to so simply in Japan.
18:22:28 <\oren\> I like the way the wikipedia article on kaizen has a picture of the word 改善 as if that's some mystical symbol of power. It doesn't look fucking mystical to any japanese person.
18:24:12 <pikhq> That's also not how you'd see it if it were e.g. put up on a wall.
18:24:41 <pikhq> That's actually a really crap SVG; I think it's been vectorized from a pixel font.
18:25:48 <pikhq> But, you'd see it done by a calligrapher.
18:26:28 <pikhq> Quite plausibly in cursive script.
18:27:50 <\oren\> but that would be just as well as if we put up ℳ𝒶𝓀ℯ 𝒾𝓉 ℬℯ𝓉𝓉ℯ𝓇 on the wall
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18:47:16 <rdococ> hello-packard pavillion
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19:29:31 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z45sXjNm-SU
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19:46:20 <HackEgo> U+144E CANADIAN SYLLABICS TI \ UTF-8: e1 91 8e UTF-16BE: 144e Decimal: ᑎ \ ᑎ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
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20:10:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zerevo * New user account
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20:44:18 <hppavilion1> ...apparently, in Hallelujah, it's 'you' on the roof when you see 'her' bathing
20:44:32 <hppavilion1> I always parsed it as 'you' saw 'her bathing on the roof'
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20:56:08 <\oren\> hppavilion1: I guess lennard co-N didn't speak good english
20:56:47 <hppavilion1> I'm making my own little personal wiki of various math
20:57:22 <hppavilion1> \oren\: He was Canadian, so he probably knew English as at the *very least* his 2L
20:57:23 <\oren\> "You saw her bathing on the roof" should be "you saw her bathing from the roof"
20:59:04 <\oren\> on the roof would mean she's on the roof
20:59:37 <\oren\> consider "I can see a car on the roof"
20:59:40 <hppavilion1> (Though, I figure that Québécois generally speak English and French (fr-ca.qc) with equal proficiency most likely, but I could be wrong)
20:59:51 <\oren\> consider "I can see my house from here"
21:00:37 <\oren\> also, why is the main character a creepy voyeur
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21:01:15 <hppavilion1> \oren\: But also, as t goes to ∞, the number of variants on Hallelujah approaches ω
21:01:43 <\oren\> whatever I hate leonard cohen he's a whiny bitch
21:02:29 <hppavilion1> (Why doesn't Unicode have "Mathematical Hebrew Letter <x>"? It's impossible to talk about cardinals since the only Aleph available is proper Hebrew and switches you to RTL)
21:03:19 <hppavilion1> \oren\: But there are so many variants of Hallelujah, it's hard to know whether that grammar weirdness was in the original or if it was just in the first one I heard or what
21:03:47 <zzo38> Use a mathematical font then
21:04:24 <HackEgo> U+2135 ALEF SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e2 84 b5 UTF-16BE: 2135 Decimal: ℵ \ ℵ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 05D0 \ \ U+2136 BET SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e2 84 b6 UTF-16BE: 2136 Decimal: ℶ \ ℶ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 05D1 \ \ U+2137 GIME
21:04:26 <hppavilion1> \oren\: Oh, and the main character is a creepy voyeur because the song is about the part of 2 Samuel about David and Bathsheba, in which David falls in love with the married Bathsheba when he sees her bathing from his palace roof
21:04:56 <hppavilion1> She's married to a 1337 soldier named Uriah in David's army, but he sleeps with her and gets her pregnant
21:05:46 <hppavilion1> Then to try to hide the adultery, he tries to get Uriah to go back and visit his wife so that they have sex and he assumes the pregnancy was his, but Uriah refused
21:06:16 <hppavilion1> So David has Uriah put on the front lines of a battle so that he's KIA and he can take Bathsheba into his harem so that it isn't adultery
21:08:39 <hppavilion1> The Prophet Nathan knows about all this because Prophesy and informs David that his firstborn to Bathsheba (the one he knocked her up with) is gonna die young because David was being a dick, and that happens
21:08:46 <hppavilion1> They have a second child who is then king Solomon.
21:09:25 <\oren\> why is everyone in the bible fucking evil
21:10:11 <hppavilion1> \oren\: The people who wrote it were kind of fucked up
21:10:30 <\oren\> they should just throw it out and start over
21:10:49 <hppavilion1> I'm (irl) named for somebody who was named for somebody( who was named for somebody)* named after the aforementioned Prophet Nathan
21:12:15 <hppavilion1> [I'm named after my grandpa Nathan Myrick, who was probably named after his (great ){0,5}grandfather Nathan Myrick, brother of Andrew Myrick: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Myrick>]
21:13:30 <\oren\> I'm named after a name my mom found in a name book
21:16:59 <\oren\> and luckily noone in the bible is anmed oren
21:18:54 <Taneb> I'm named because my parents didn't know anyone called Nathan
21:21:34 <hppavilion1> Taneb: That's also part of my naming, as well as my cousin's
21:23:03 <hppavilion1> Taneb: Her parents chose her name (which I'm obviously not going to say on public IRC) by getting out a list of the U50 most popular baby names and limiting themselves to only things NOT on that list
21:23:35 <hppavilion1> My mother is unlucky though; she tries to choose uncommon names, but then they *become* common.
21:24:20 <hppavilion1> (She's probably just following the same predictable trends as everybody else, but we like to pretend that she /sets/ the trends)
21:25:04 <hppavilion1> ['U' is now the digit ump. "umpteen" is the weird way of writing 1U as a word; the same way people sometimes *write* "fourteen"]
21:25:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51324&oldid=51262 * Bendertheprogrammer * (+340)
21:26:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bendertheprogrammer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51325 * Bendertheprogrammer * (+26) Created page with "Hi from Santiago of Chile!"
21:26:53 <hppavilion1> So a kilobyte is 1024 bytes, a megabyte is 1_048_576 (1024**2), a gigabyte is 1_073_741_824 (1024**3), and so on. What, then, is a hectobyte??
21:30:20 <\oren\> or maybe you might round it a different manner
21:31:49 <\oren\> a myriabyte would be 10321 bytes
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21:37:01 <\oren\> a a hectokilobyte would be 104032 bytes
21:37:47 <Zarutian> so that is what outernet used for as their submission size limit
21:39:10 <\oren\> by the way, in metric countries, fuel efficiency is still measured in litres per hectokilometre
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21:39:56 <\oren\> they just don't use "hectokilo" anymore
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22:12:31 <\oren\> a litre per 100kilometre is mathematically equal to a picohectare
22:12:33 <\oren\> therefore, fuel efficiency should be measured in picohectares
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22:17:40 <Taneb> \oren\, that's a double SI prefix
22:18:16 <Taneb> A picohectare is I think 100 picares, or 0.1 nanares
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22:29:43 <wob_jonas> I should try ais523's monster symbol golf problem some time. I have an idea that's a bit tricky to execute but could lead to a nice solution that's not very long and different from the ones posted so far.
22:52:52 <oerjan> <\oren\> also, why is the main character a creepy voyeur <-- it's a mixture of two bible references hth
22:53:33 <wob_jonas> wait, this song pronounces "orange" as one syllable? or is it some other word?
22:54:37 <oerjan> (and how do you expect us to know?)
22:54:59 <wob_jonas> wait, I'm checking the written lyrics
22:55:16 <wob_jonas> Phineas and Ferb S4 episode http://phineasandferb.wikia.com/wiki/Terrifying_Tri-State_Trilogy_of_Terror/Transcript
22:56:10 <wob_jonas> it pronounces it as "onge" basically
22:57:33 <oerjan> how many syllables in "little"?
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23:14:30 <wob_jonas> oerjan: the "little" right before "orange" is definitely pronounced as two syllables
23:20:41 <oerjan> <\oren\> therefore, fuel efficiency should be measured in picohectares <-- hm i think norwegians use nanares hth
23:21:44 <oerjan> why are you making zzo impressions
23:22:20 <oerjan> (of course we call it "liter på mila")
23:23:22 <wob_jonas> oerjan: that's because Norway is big, driving a megameter actually makes sense. in Hungary, it rarely does.
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00:11:59 <hppavilion1> \oren\: I did figure that 101.59366... would be formally consistent (well, I didn't find the number since I ran out of time, BUT I WOULD HAVE)
00:12:30 <hppavilion1> \oren\: But OTOH, we want nice power-of-2y numbers, so 256 (or if you /insist/, 128) also works
00:13:44 <hppavilion1> And if you go with 256, you can make a decabyte 16 bytes, and that makes a hectobyte (decabyte/byte)^2, which is internally consistent.
00:14:28 <hppavilion1> (since a hectometer is (decametre/meter)^2 and so forth)
00:21:51 <shachaf> Though I haven't read all of it yet.
00:22:13 <lambdabot> Local time for Jafet is Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:22:11 +1100
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00:45:22 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Thu Mar 9 16:45:20 2017
00:48:08 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i think you got that backwards, it's l / 10 km
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01:24:30 <HackEgo> unicode//Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people.
01:26:19 <HackEgo> essay//To essay is to try, and while doing that showing your work in writing.
01:28:41 <erkin> Someone should compile a fortune file out of those.
01:29:29 <boily> hellorkin! there's a shiny PDF! available in the topic! very gorgeous and well-typeset!
01:29:41 <boily> (not quite exactly up to date, but a good approximation!)
01:31:32 <oerjan> . o O ( hm... royalties... )
01:32:04 <wob_jonas> do we have an official charity #esoteric supports?
01:32:17 <boily> if you want to send me something, I never say no to a cheezy postcard.
01:32:26 <boily> or plain cheese, if you manage to get it through customs.
01:32:44 <erkin> I don't think they'd allow me to send cheese. They barely let me ship tea to United States.
01:32:45 <oerjan> . o O ( or anything edible, really )
01:32:59 <erkin> And it cost me a fortune.
01:33:09 <boily> if you can smuggle a can of strömming >:D
01:33:28 <HackEgo> Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
01:33:30 <wob_jonas> there's a good reason they don't allow that
01:34:03 <erkin> ‾\_(o_o)_/‾ who knows
01:34:19 <wob_jonas> swedish? do we even have swedish people on this channel? I don't think we do
01:34:39 * oerjan bumps wob_jonas on the head to realign his memory
01:34:50 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
01:35:07 <erkin> Those names sound Japanese.
01:35:08 <boily> erkin: I dont have you in the File. what are your approximative geographic coördinates, and body weigh?
01:35:21 <erkin> Somewhere around these parts.
01:36:06 <wob_jonas> Japanese? Seriously? that sounds like fail, because I don't think any of them wre supposed to be japanese.
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01:36:22 <boily> erkin: *ding* filed ♪
01:36:44 <erkin> And my body weight is about 166,7777777777777 okkas.
01:36:55 <erkin> It is mostly beard hair.
01:37:29 <oerjan> wob_jonas: there are at least two swedes here and i suspect a third.
01:39:08 <oerjan> <boily> erkin: *ding* filed ♪ <-- helloily. you sound desperate.
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01:40:50 <boily> hellørjan. beuh...
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01:45:18 <HackEgo> soap//Soap is the main ingredient for the iridescent visions that internet startups sell to investors.
01:56:28 <erkin> hapax esoteromenon
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02:00:31 <boily> . o O ( strange... I could've sworn there'd be one... )
02:00:44 <HackEgo> 260) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 305) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 306) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named a
02:00:56 <boily> okay, quote still works.
02:01:22 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
02:02:47 <hppavilion1> I'm thinking about conic sections, as always
02:03:21 <oerjan> hppavilion1: i'm sure that's hyperbole
02:03:46 <hppavilion1> Specifically, since orbits in 2-body systems are always conic sections (iirc, or is that just when one has negligible mass?), I wonder if using variants on a cone, you can get solutions for n-body systems
02:04:15 <hppavilion1> And also, what do these conic sections even look like? They sound fun
02:04:25 <hppavilion1> Like, if I use an ellipticone, do I get anything new?
02:05:53 <hppavilion1> Is there some software I can use to find the intersections of arbitrary 3D shapes?
02:07:43 <hppavilion1> boily: ...or maybe Octave. Octave is FOSSier
02:09:09 <boily> yes, but I couldn't've respected vowel alliteration hth
02:10:07 <Jafet> unlikely, because the 4-body problem contains singularities: http://www.math.cornell.edu/~templier/junior/final_paper/Danny_Tu.pdf
02:10:38 <Jafet> (someone should make that into an esolang)
02:12:18 <hppavilion1> Jafet: ...wait, how does it contain singularities?
02:13:00 <hppavilion1> Jafet: Are we talking the mathematical sort or the black holey sort?
02:13:02 <Jafet> particles can reach infinite velocity and distance in finite time
02:13:37 <hppavilion1> I seem to remember there being a rule about that somewhere
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02:13:46 <Jafet> the classical n-body equations do
02:13:48 <hppavilion1> Written by this unknown guy named Einstein
02:14:17 <Jafet> now, if you have the relativistic n-body problem, I think it's still unsolved for n=2
02:20:56 <oerjan> relativistically, it seems unclear what n=2 even means, because spacetime as a whole is curved and that's not simply defined by the position of the two bodies.
02:21:14 <oerjan> e.g. gravitational waves
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02:46:48 <hppavilion1> oerjan: I feel like the universe was meant to make perfect sense, then God accidentally added a '...' after π = 3.14
02:47:10 <hppavilion1> (which, in God's programming language, means "make this some crazy bizarre number that goes on forever")
02:49:07 <hppavilion1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superformula
02:49:18 <hppavilion1> "Gielis holds a patent related to the synthesis of patterns generated by the superformula."
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03:04:15 <oerjan> @check \(a,b,c) (d,e,f) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1 ++ reverse (sort l2)) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2)
03:04:16 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 149:Parse error: EOF
03:04:51 <oerjan> @check \(a,b,c) (d,e,f) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1 ++ reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2)
03:04:54 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty) arising from a use o...
03:05:19 <oerjan> @check \(a,(b,c)) (d,(e,f)) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1 ++ reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2)
03:05:23 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty) arising from a use o...
03:05:30 <HackEgo> U+2022 BULLET \ UTF-8: e2 80 a2 UTF-16BE: 2022 Decimal: • \ • \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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03:06:06 <Jafet> I see lambdabot has reached a new caliber
03:06:25 <oerjan> oh wait, it's obvious from the case with two
03:08:09 <oerjan> (basically, that if have two lists of positive numbers, then you get the smalles sum of products if you pair them up in reverse order)
03:08:47 <oerjan> (and largest if you use the same order)
03:11:53 <Jafet> @check \(a,(b,c)) (d,(e,f)) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> sum (zipWith (*) (sort l1) (reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith (*) l1 l2)
03:12:00 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty) arising from a use o...
03:12:44 <oerjan> it's possible ==> never actually worked in lambdabot, i don't quite remember
03:13:19 <oerjan> @check \x -> x > 0 ==> x^3 > 0
03:13:19 <lambdabot> : -1: -1:Ambiguous infix expression
03:13:37 <oerjan> @check \x -> (x > 0) ==> (x^3 > 0)
03:14:11 <oerjan> @check \(a,(b,c)) (d,(e,f)) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> (sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1 ++ reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2))
03:14:14 <lambdabot> • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 ~ [a0] Expected type:...
03:14:24 <oerjan> ok that was not simply precedence
03:14:43 <Jafet> @check \(a,(b,c)) (d,(e,f)) -> let l1 = [a,b,c]; l2 = [d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> (sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1) (reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2))
03:14:46 <lambdabot> *** Gave up! Passed only 15 tests.
03:16:15 * oerjan doesn't slap self because he remembers that gives him tinnitus
03:18:04 <oerjan> @check \(a,(b,c)) (d,(e,f)) -> let l1 = abs<$>[a,b,c]; l2 = abs<$>[d,e,f] in all (>0) (l1++l2) ==> (sum (zipWith(*) (sort l1) (reverse (sort l2))) <= sum (zipWith(*) l1 l2))
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03:18:34 <oerjan> i think there was a better way to select positive numbers
03:18:50 <lambdabot> error: Data constructor not in scope: Natural
03:20:10 <oerjan> anyway, you can essentially prove it from the case with 2 by emulating bubble sort with one list as the indices
03:20:26 <oerjan> and the case for two follows from
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03:22:18 <oerjan> a*d + b*c = a*c + b*d - (a-b)*(c-d)
03:22:53 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:23:08 <shachaf> `swrjan sevil overlordbuddy
03:23:11 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your buddy oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:23:36 <shachaf> Remind me why it starts with the word "Your"?
03:23:55 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
03:24:21 <shachaf> No, I mean that "pal" is too similar to "buddy"
03:24:27 <lambdabot> *** "pal" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
03:24:27 <lambdabot> n 1: a close friend who accompanies his buddies in their
03:24:27 <lambdabot> activities [syn: {buddy}, {brother}, {chum}, {crony},
03:24:28 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 673:2012-08-27 <shachäf> run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan \ 2649:2013-04-13 <shachäf> sed -i \'s/$/ And hates Roald Dahl./\' wisdom/oerjan \ 2650:2013-04-13 <shachäf> sed -i \'s/\\. And/ who/\' wisdom/oerjan \ 4652:2014-06-06 <s
03:24:29 <lambdabot> v 1: become friends; act friendly towards [syn: {pal}, {pal up},
03:24:53 <shachaf> Didn't wn use to have antonyms?
03:25:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwrjan: not found
03:25:12 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your buddha oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:25:30 <shachaf> I think slwrjan is a much more natural name, even though it makes less sense.
03:26:10 <shachaf> Oh, and "pal" was referring to your LSD pal.
03:26:31 <oerjan> good, someone needs a good memory around here
03:26:56 <shachaf> https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/world/europe/an-uphill-campaign-in-norway-to-promote-lsd-as-a-human-right.html
03:28:55 <oerjan> hm vim thinks .unl files are conf format, whatever that is.
03:29:07 <oerjan> and manages to syntax color comments correctly
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03:38:57 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
03:39:42 <shachaf> `slwd np//s.ns.n problems.
03:39:44 <HackEgo> np//NP is the complexity class of decision problems that are No Problem.
03:40:12 <Jafet> `learn PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illegal in many places, but research has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem.
03:40:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'pcp': PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illegal in many places, but research has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem.
03:43:28 <oerjan> shachaf: that's illogical
03:44:16 <shachaf> If Jafet hadn't made PCP, I would edit it to something logical.
03:45:08 <shachaf> oerjan: feel free to undo it hth
03:47:25 <HackEgo> pcp//PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illogical in many places, but research has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem.
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07:11:04 <Jafet> I should declare that I have never made any PCP; for one thing, it would be highly illogical
07:28:38 <\oren\> Donald Tusk is the president of the EU
07:28:41 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tusk
07:28:49 <\oren\> WHY IS IT ALSO A DONALD
07:29:05 <\oren\> WILL THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA ALSO BE NAMED DONALD
07:29:11 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
07:29:34 <shachaf> what about the next president of canada
07:30:55 <\oren\> OH GOD WAHT IF THERE IS A MCDONALD
07:34:40 <rdococ> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
07:35:26 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
07:36:25 <\oren\> soon everyone will be ruled by a donald
07:37:13 <\oren\> donald mcdonald, emperor of makind
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08:01:44 <zzo38> I thought of idea, to make a chess variant where the number of different kind of pieces is exactly equal to googolplex, with no duplicates. I have yet not quite figure out, but I have had some ideas about how to do such thing
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08:07:28 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe you can take inspiration from Gess.
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08:37:13 <\oren\> Gabriel Drop-Out is a good anime
08:39:53 <zzo38> If you have a 10x10 grid where each cell has a number 0 to 9, and then for each such possible way to fill the numbers in the grid is also assigned a number 0 to 9.
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09:28:46 <zzo38> Oops, I think there is a misspelling in the error message of Gforth
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11:07:12 <HackEgo> xkcdwhatiflist 156: oerjan b_jonas Taneb
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15:54:46 <Taneb> I'm having a frustratingly unproductive day at work
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16:12:27 <rdococ> clearly, you must produce a new esolang to make it productive
16:12:59 <Taneb> I'm working with ColdFusion, it's pretty esoteric already
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16:14:54 <rdococ> I want to create an esoteric assembly language...
16:16:30 <rdococ> that's even lower than machine code...
16:22:57 <Zarutian> rdococ: make an litographic mask generator that only takes in imput in the form of SK calculus functions.
16:23:51 <rdococ> I don't like SK calculus
16:24:06 <Taneb> What about BCKW calculus
16:24:35 <tromp_> nothing beats plain lambda calculus
16:24:51 <Taneb> B = \x y z.x(y z), C = \x y z.x z y, K = \x y.x, W = \x y.x y y
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16:25:48 <Taneb> (this is imo a more accessible alternative to SK)
16:25:50 <tromp_> combinatorial logic is wonderfully elegant, but just not as efficient as lambda calculus
16:26:33 <rdococ> I'd rather just have lambda calculus...
16:26:42 <rdococ> tried designing some kind of lambdafuck before
16:27:02 <tromp_> but it's called binary lambda calculus:-)
16:27:03 <rdococ> yeah but probably in a way I find really crappy
16:27:37 <tromp_> see if you find http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html crappy
16:27:51 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is one I am proud of
16:28:40 <rdococ> \ \ 2 in the De Brujin index could be represented as 2 : 2
16:29:14 <Taneb> Why not LAMBDA LAMBDA ONE MORE THAN ONE MORE THAN ZERO
16:29:53 <rdococ> LAMBDA LAMBDA SUCC SUCC ZERO
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16:30:03 <Taneb> LAMBDA LAMBDA LAMBDA APPLY APPLY ONE MORE THAN ONE MORE THAN ZERO ZERO APPLY ONE MORE THAN ZERO ZERO
16:30:08 <Taneb> rdococ, that's a syntax error
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16:30:16 <rdococ> LAMBDA LAMBDA ZERO SUCC SUCC?
16:30:26 <Taneb> What are you even doing
16:30:59 <Taneb> `wiki Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
16:30:59 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found
16:31:05 <Taneb> Oh, I thought we had that one
16:36:54 <Taneb> rdococ, here's an idea: antilog, an illogical programming language
16:39:17 <rdococ> isn't that called ColdFusion?
16:40:15 <Zarutian> Taneb: I thought that was VHDL/Verilog
16:41:58 <rdococ> I argued with an illogical MS fanboy actually yesterday I think... or the day before
16:44:35 <rdococ> he even admitted that any software that isn't MS is a crappy alternative in his books
16:48:15 <Taneb> People like that exist, sadly
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16:57:51 <rdococ> is it apply f to x or apply x to f
16:58:18 <Taneb> ...I'd say the former, but I am not sure
16:58:28 <Taneb> You apply a function to its argument
16:58:46 <rdococ> Actually, I'm creating a language called Disassembly :P
17:03:35 <Phantom_Hoover> i really wish we'd settled on writing function application as x f
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17:08:15 <rdococ> everyone knows function application should be:
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17:42:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51326 * Rdococ * (+750) Created page with "'''Disassembly''' is an esoteric programming language by [[User:Rdococ]]. It's an assembly language. No, sorry, I spelled that wrong - it's a disassembly language. Its only da..."
17:43:00 <rdococ> I accidentally published it
17:44:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51327&oldid=51326 * Rdococ * (+142)
17:47:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51328&oldid=51327 * Rdococ * (+119)
17:50:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51329&oldid=51328 * Rdococ * (+7)
17:56:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51330&oldid=51323 * Rdococ * (+145) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */ tarapt
17:58:24 <Zarutian> humm.. what about an esolang where the only thing you give the runtme is an cryptographic hash say MD5 and it tries to find a preimage of brainfuck instructions for it and runs that?
17:58:56 <rdococ> you mean an esolang whose interpreter is required to calculate reverse MD5 hashes?
17:59:35 <rdococ> I can't imagine anyone building a fast interpreter at least with classical computing...
18:01:50 <Zarutian> well, if you have an Teplerian Oracle then it runs quite quickly in our reference of time.
18:03:15 <Zarutian> think of an pocket universe which is accessible from ours through a wormhole
18:03:55 <rdococ> flowing at a different speed?
18:05:33 <rdococ> what's the next level of hell from Malebolge?
18:06:08 <fizzie> There's one where you have to find a hash preimage -- https://esolangs.org/wiki/ShaFuck -- so why not the other way around too. Although it's a lot more ambiguous. (Maybe "first preimage in shortlex order"?)
18:06:27 <rdococ> what about a language which does both?
18:06:37 <rdococ> an MD5 hash then a SHA-256 reverse hash
18:06:53 <rdococ> or, heck, I have a new idea for a language but I need to know the next level of hell
18:11:22 <fizzie> "At the base of the well, Dante finds himself within a large frozen lake: Cocytus, the Ninth Circle of Hell."
18:11:37 <fizzie> Malebolge being the eighth.
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18:16:58 <Zarutian> rdococ: Freezing slush basically
18:19:43 <rdococ> what about an esolang which takes the instructions, performs both an MD5 hash and a SHA-256 hash but in an unpredictable order, so you are forced to program code that results in the same instructions whether the interpreter MD5s before SHA-256ing or SHA-256s before MD5ing?
18:20:08 <rdococ> then it strips unnecessary/invalid characters and interprets the result as Malbolge?
18:29:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Transistor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51331&oldid=50957 * Rdococ * (+19) [[Category:2017]]
18:30:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Oracle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51332&oldid=51268 * Rdococ * (+17) [[Category:2017]]
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18:30:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QWOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51333&oldid=51283 * Rdococ * (+19) [[Category:2017]]
18:31:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Zeno]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51334&oldid=51319 * Rdococ * (+17)
18:31:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Image]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51335&oldid=51320 * Rdococ * (+19)
18:31:53 <uczy> How would someone even start to write a transpiler targeting Zot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot#Zot ?
18:32:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51336&oldid=51329 * Rdococ * (+19)
18:34:36 <uczy> Say I want to translate lisp-style arithmetic expressions into that format
18:43:08 <\oren\> http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/samantha-bee-cancer-controversy-trnd/index.html
18:43:39 <\oren\> I swear to god, we need a wall to keep these idiot american television people out
18:48:42 <rdococ> we need a wall to keep idiot americans away from mexico
18:49:21 <rdococ> and they will want to pay for it :P
18:49:26 <\oren\> i'm a russian, you're a nazi, he's got nazi hair, and she's a commie haxxor!
18:49:49 <rdococ> can I swap my character for a russian?
18:49:52 <\oren\> russians and nazis are everywhere now
18:50:07 <int-e> wtf are you people talking about
18:50:08 -!- int-e has left.
18:50:14 <rdococ> why does everyone think all russians are evil
18:50:26 <\oren\> it's like the democrats are LARPing red orchestra
18:53:34 <\oren\> I gave up on normal reasoning and started just pointing out to people that I'm half russian
18:53:51 <\oren\> and yelling russophobe
18:54:07 <\oren\> it's quite effective on facebook
18:54:46 <\oren\> my great grandmother was a russian from east ukraine no less
18:55:01 <rdococ> idk why people keep thinking all russians are evil
18:55:56 <\oren\> I think it's basically trump wants to ally russia therefore we must take the opposite position
18:56:25 <rdococ> I think americans hated russia before then
18:56:32 <rdococ> and that's why trump wants to do the opposite of that
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19:04:49 <rdococ> is it possible to write every lambda expression without... er... uh
19:07:15 <rdococ> Is it possible to write a lambda expression w/o nesting lambda functions?
19:19:23 <tromp_> you need at most 2 nestings
19:19:39 <tromp_> as in S = \x\y\z xz(yz)
19:19:51 <rdococ> that's not what I meant
19:20:05 <rdococ> I meant something like \x\y.x(\h.\g.x) or something
19:20:39 <tromp_> that can be rewritten with less nesting
19:21:19 <tromp_> just express in basis S,K
19:22:03 <rdococ> can http://esolangs.org/wiki/Disassembly express all lambda expressions?
19:23:18 <rdococ> is \x.\y.x(\h.\g.x) equivalent to \x.\y.\h.\g.x?
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19:26:02 <rdococ> do you require abstraction to express certain lambda expressions?
19:29:50 <rdococ> so I need abstraction in my language?
19:32:04 <tromp_> how else would you create functions?
19:32:21 <rdococ> this is impossible to explain, isn't it
19:33:04 <tromp_> i advise you add an example program to your language; e.g. computing the factorial function
19:33:15 <rdococ> look at the church encoding for the predecessor function. could you rewrite it with... out... ugh nevermind
19:33:56 <tromp_> that will force you to make the language well-specified
19:34:14 <tromp_> right now it's completely ill defined:(
19:35:56 <rdococ> they are parameters, like a + b
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19:37:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51337&oldid=51336 * Rdococ * (+396)
19:42:11 <rdococ> I could just have one register for input and remove INP...
19:42:28 <tromp_> how to do hello world?
19:43:14 <tromp_> with ABS being arbitrary size, this is not really assembly like
19:44:45 <tromp_> it looks like you use INP to bind function arguments, OUT to return function values
19:45:06 <tromp_> so this is just some cumbersome notation for lambda calculus?
19:46:15 <tromp_> maybe it served its purpose of making you better understrand lambda calculus
19:46:33 <rdococ> nah, I understood it, I just wasn't sure
19:46:49 <rdococ> so how would I delete it?
19:47:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Disassembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51338&oldid=51337 * Rdococ * (-1433) Blanked the page
19:47:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51339&oldid=51330 * Rdococ * (-145) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */
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21:30:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisodm: not found
21:30:06 <HackEgo> wiki//The wiki is at <http://esolangs.org/>.
21:30:11 <HackEgo> quadrilateral//Don't you mean "tetrapleur"?
21:30:15 <HackEgo> itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly
21:30:18 <HackEgo> btw//btw is short for "bury the weasel"
21:30:22 <HackEgo> usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton.
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21:32:45 <rdococ> united state automaton
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21:34:19 <\oren\> rdococ: you have some set of N FSA's and you merge them into one to run them in "parallel"
21:35:39 <\oren\> say that one FSA says in state 1 with input A goto state 2 and anothe says goto state 3. the USA would say in state 11 with input A goto state 23
21:36:37 <\oren\> you merge their behaviours to form a FSA on the cartesion product of their states
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21:39:20 <\oren\> er, first you form an FSA on the cartesian product of their state spaces. then you trim states that are unreachable from the initial state
21:41:57 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH_hHmRAU7Q
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22:26:00 <zzo38> I thought of that a spell in a Dungeons&Dragons game or GURPS game that could be made up, it is targets two mirrors and then until the spell expires, what is visible in each mirror is what the other mirror reflects instead of what this one does.
22:27:03 <shachaf> I like the spell, but not in Dungeons & Dragons or GURPS.
22:27:24 <zzo38> shachaf: You can use other game systems too if you prefer
22:28:29 <zzo38> If you then put both mirror next to each other so that the reflective sides are exposed (to make a double mirror), then it will be like seeing through, but, anyone that is invisible but still has a visible reflection (this is a possible modifier in GURPS) will now be visible through this window, and anyone with the power to not cast a reflection (also a trait in GURPS, e.g. a vampire) cannot be seen (but it may be helpful if you want to see through
22:28:44 <shachaf> I mean I like it in real life.
22:29:15 <zzo38> Another thing to do is move mirrors into different locations once cast in order to make surveillance, until the spell expires.
22:29:31 <zzo38> And then to do another different thing if these two mirrors can see each other.
22:33:32 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
22:33:46 <hppavilion1> I seem to be designing the ultimate nerdy computer interface
22:33:55 <hppavilion1> A keyboard with more deadkeys than I have fingers
22:34:04 <hppavilion1> A mouse which can use polar or hyperbolic coordinates
22:35:06 <rdococ> polar or hyperbolic coordinates?
22:36:02 <hppavilion1> rdococ: It could be switched between cartesian, polar, and hyperbolic coordinates at will
22:36:21 <rdococ> (yes but how would it work?)
22:36:56 <hppavilion1> rdococ: You press a button to change the mouse movement mode.
22:37:33 <rdococ> say I changed the mouse movement mode right now, and tried to move my mouse to the right. what would happen?
22:38:54 <shachaf> zzo38: You should tell vaporware that it is scow.
22:40:19 <zzo38> shachaf: Why? Shouldn't you tell vaporware that it is scow?
22:40:28 <rdococ> vaporware: you're scow
22:40:30 <shachaf> zzo38: Why would I tell vaporware that?
22:41:47 <zzo38> Because for two reason: [1] I don't know which one is scow [2] Hopefully you understand better what you are meaning if you tell them directly
22:41:49 <hppavilion1> rdococ: If you switched to polar and moved to the right, your mouse would move counterclockwise along the screen following a circular arc centered at the designated centerpoint
22:41:57 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Which is by default the center of your screen
22:42:11 <rdococ> but how would that be useful in any way?
22:42:16 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Assuming you didn't move your mouse vertically, the radius would remain constant
22:42:36 <rdococ> can you give me an interactive demo or something?
22:42:40 <zzo38> Perhaps add many switches: coordinate mode, horizontal lock, vertical lock
22:42:44 <hppavilion1> (And give you intuition for different geometries, and probably be nice for drawing arcs and so forth)
22:42:46 <rdococ> also, what about hyperbolic?
22:42:52 <shachaf> zzo38: But one time you told me that vaporware says that it is scow.
22:43:26 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Hyperbolic would be the same, but the origin would be the bottom left corner and movement would be based on hyperbolic geometry, as it should be.
22:43:49 <rdococ> hyperbolic coordinates?
22:43:53 <hppavilion1> (wait, already said something to that effect)
22:44:05 <Phantom_Hoover> <hppavilion1> rdococ: Hyperbolic would be the same, but the origin would be the bottom left corner and movement would be based on hyperbolic geometry, as it should be.
22:44:10 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Hyperbolic angle plus radius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_coordinates
22:44:49 <rdococ> I'd like an interactive demo of them
22:45:02 <Phantom_Hoover> like you'd just locally map the mouse velocity onto the hyperbolic plane
22:48:53 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: At first. It'd become intuitive surprisingly fast.
22:49:22 <Phantom_Hoover> hyperbolic geometry has this property where it blows up exponentially
22:50:13 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: I once set my font to this and was able to kind of keep up a conversation: https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1348757/cryptonomicon-basis
22:50:27 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: Neuroplasticity is a powerful tool.
22:50:43 <Phantom_Hoover> that's-- good for you, when i was 14 i learned tengwar from the lotr appendices
22:50:45 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: Then you'd add a logarithm to velocity so that you don't get lost too quickly.
22:50:56 <Phantom_Hoover> which was actually less useless because it introduced me to phonetics
22:51:14 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: The use of Cryptonomicon is that it prevents people from reading over my shoulder.
22:51:43 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway it's not about that it's about how much space there is in hyperbolic space
22:52:27 <hppavilion1> rdococ: [on the topic of a demo] Yeah, that's where I'm stuck. I can't think of a way to efficiently implement it via the actual mouse without learning to write a whole mouse driver; I might be able to make the numpad do it for simplicity, though.
22:52:43 <Phantom_Hoover> there is a room with walls 28 grid tiles out from the centre
22:53:16 <Phantom_Hoover> that's it and it's incredibly hard because the room has 31659398 tiles in it
22:55:17 <\oren\> I prefer vaporwave to vaporware
22:56:53 <hppavilion1> Phantom_Hoover: OK, to be clear, hyperbolic geometry and hyperbolic coordinates are pretty much unrelated, yes?
22:58:26 <hppavilion1> The idea is just that moving your mouse left increases u, moving it right decreases u, moving it up increases v, and moving it down decreases v, as given in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_coordinates
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23:00:27 <Phantom_Hoover> 'Since HP carries the metric space structure of the Poincaré half-plane model of hyperbolic geometry' well ok it's hyperbolic space
23:00:54 <Phantom_Hoover> but we're describing different mappings of mouse movement to movement in space, yes
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23:02:36 <Phantom_Hoover> yours is coordinate-based and has the property that if you move the mouse around a big loop on your desk it'll end up in the same place in hyperbolic space that it started
23:02:53 <Phantom_Hoover> mine is based on integrating the path of the mouse into hyperbolic space and does not map loops to loops
23:04:16 <rdococ> what about a polar coordinate terminal?
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23:20:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mindygalveston * New user account
23:25:09 -!- boily has joined.
23:25:13 <HackEgo> adjective//Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens.
23:25:35 <boily> chickens are good ^^
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23:27:44 <HackEgo> submarine jousting//Submarine jousting is unexplainable.
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23:41:34 <boily> rdochelloc. pork is better, but chicken is good.
23:44:16 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:44:46 <boily> hellørjan! best meat?
23:45:58 <oerjan> helloily! mink whale hth
23:47:13 * oerjan cashes his norwegian government propaganda fee
23:48:35 <oerjan> shachaf: i've forgotten
23:49:46 <oerjan> boily: it was either that or a long pig joke hth
23:49:47 <rdococ> does wisdom support entries with + in their name?
23:50:18 <rdococ> `le//rn 1+1//1+1 is window.
23:50:20 <HackEgo> Learned '1+1': 1+1 is window.
23:50:25 <HackEgo> αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo!
23:50:53 <boily> oerjan: fr:rorqual! never tasted it.
23:51:43 <rdococ> `le//rn 1+1//1+1 is window as rdocscovered by rdococ in the late 202nd decade.
23:51:45 <HackEgo> Relearned '1+1': 1+1 is window as rdocscovered by rdococ in the late 202nd decade.
23:51:54 <oerjan> boily: well much of the world has forbidden it hth
23:52:56 <boily> The best way to make a species disappear is to eat it into delicious oblivion... :/
23:52:57 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ shrug2 \ swatter \ useless
23:53:29 <oerjan> `mk emoticons/window//1+1
23:54:34 <oerjan> i feel that has already crept away from emotions
23:54:56 <oerjan> hm and emoji is also wrong, those should be characters
23:56:16 <oerjan> rdococ: i think "rdocscovered by rdococ" is overdoing it regardless of the value of the wisdom by itself.
23:56:41 <oerjan> unless you're rdocscovering redundancy or something. (but we already have that.)
23:56:59 <rdococ> `le//rn 1+1//1+1 is window as rdocscovered by rdococ, brought to you from the department of rdocdundency department by rdococ, in the late 202nd decade.
23:57:01 <HackEgo> Learned '1+1': 1+1 is window as rdocscovered by rdococ, brought to you from the department of rdocdundency department by rdococ, in the late 202nd decade.
23:57:51 <oerjan> i said _regardless of the value_.
23:58:03 <oerjan> i wasn't implying that it was good except for that.
23:58:04 <rdococ> I was gonna put 1201_12
23:58:20 * boily gives rdococ a miniature tuna. a miniatuna.
23:58:34 * oerjan gives boily a swat -----###
23:58:53 * rdococ sprays fly spray over oerjan
00:00:13 * rdococ sprays pesticide over oerjan
00:00:30 <rdococ> since you're a fly now it'll be 1000x more effective >:)
00:00:53 * oerjan crashes down in budapest, dooming half of the city
00:01:19 <oerjan> also, i am no longer flying.
00:01:44 * oerjan gets evicted by hungarian police
00:02:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51340&oldid=51324 * Mindygalveston * (+295) /* Introductions */
00:04:14 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
00:04:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Disassembly]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "'''Disassembly''' is an esoteric programming language by [[User:Rdococ]]. It's an assembly language. No, sorry, I spelled that wrong - it's a disassembly language. Its only data type is the Disassembly program - that's wh..."
00:13:48 <hppavilion[1]> DHeadshot: Static GIFs are illegal under internet law.
00:15:01 <shachaf> How many words is https://shells.aachen.ccc.de/~spq/md5.gif worth?
00:15:09 <DHeadshot> Static = 1000, Animated = 1000*NumFrames*25/FrameRate
00:15:23 <shachaf> Animated GIFs don't have a framerate.
00:15:31 <shachaf> Or rather each frame has its own delay number.
00:15:52 <DHeadshot> (Replace 25 with whatever the exact framerate of the human eye is)
00:17:41 <fizzie> I don't think human eyes have a framerate either.
00:18:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51341&oldid=50827 * Mindygalveston * (+921) began the first paragraph of thotpatrol overview.~~~~
00:18:57 <Jafet> the framerate of human eyes has increased from 60 to 144 Hz in the last few years
00:21:58 <fizzie> There's certainly some analogues from questions like "what is perceived as motion" and "what sort of temporal things can it distinguish", but I feel the whole system is too mushy to have anything you could with clear conscience call a framerate.
00:22:51 <shachaf> But who among us truly has a clear conscience?
00:23:12 <fizzie> It's the guy who casts the first stone hth
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00:25:23 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: To be able to perfectly manipulate anybody I encounter, convincing exempli gratia people to give me their pensions.
00:25:39 <shachaf> imo http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/dog-philosophy
00:25:55 <shachaf> Joke's on you, no one has pensions anymore.
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00:27:55 <Jafet> evidently, they all gave their pensions to hppavilion[1]
00:30:20 * oerjan still has his pension. possibly because hppavilion[1] doesn't know where he lives.
00:30:46 <Jafet> oerjan is too evil to be an exempli gratia person
00:30:55 <shachaf> Is it possible to simultaneously know someone's approximate geographic coördinates and their body weigh?
00:31:18 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, I've narrowed it down to a particular testicle of the Frigid Seapenis of Fennoscandia.
00:32:53 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's not very precise.
00:33:41 <shachaf> oerjan: norwegian pensions don't count hth
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00:39:52 <oerjan> Jafet: exempli clade hth
00:40:22 <rdococ> is there a simple pivot animation application with tweening?
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00:59:14 <HackEgo> furozo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:16:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dictionary: not found
01:17:42 <oerjan> ^wiki Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
01:17:42 <fungot> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
01:18:35 <oerjan> alas fungot doesn't know about url escaping
01:18:35 <fungot> oerjan: some are both.
01:19:02 <HackEgo> 7080:2016-03-05 <hppavilion[1̈]> rm bin/wiki \ 7079:2016-03-05 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo \\"http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page\\"" > bin/wiki
01:20:36 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/wiki
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01:24:58 <oerjan> <oerjan> `sled bin/url//s,http,https,g
01:25:10 <oerjan> did it in wrong window
01:25:56 <oerjan> or wait, does fetch have trouble with it
01:27:06 <oerjan> hm that would be a problem for `edit, not this.
01:27:36 <oerjan> `fetch bin/wiki https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/wiki
01:27:39 <HackEgo> 2017-03-11 01:27:28 URL:https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/wiki [217/217] -> "bin/wiki" [1]
01:27:59 <oerjan> `wiki Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
01:28:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/wiki: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/wiki: cannot execute: Permission denied
01:28:23 <oerjan> `wiki Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
01:28:23 <HackEgo> https://esolangs.org/wiki//hackenv/Real%20Fast%20Nora%27s%20Hair%20Salon%203%3A%20Shear%20Disaster%20Download
01:28:46 <oerjan> `sled bin/edit//s,http,https,g
01:28:48 <HackEgo> bin/edit//#!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ \ if len(sys.argv) < 2: \ sys.exit('https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/') \ \ f = os.path.realpath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|ignore$|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is not editable.") \ print 'https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/' +
01:30:04 <oerjan> `` grep -l -R 'http[^s]' bin
01:30:12 <HackEgo> bin/udcli \ bin/google \ bin/raw-url \ bin/nooodl: \ bin/emmental \ bin/sprunge \ bin/js \ bin/jousturl \ bin/rot256 \ bin/etymology \ bin/rot0 \ bin/macro \ bin/multicode \ bin/wl \ bin/define \ bin/searchlog \ bin/hurl \ bin/tclkit \ bin/logurl \ bin/joustreport \ bin/rot26 \ bin/dice \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/danddreclist \ bin/units
01:30:29 <fizzie> oerjan: I didn't initially have https turned on for those, and when I got that configured I didn't remember to update the scripts.
01:30:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/hurl//s,http,https,g
01:30:50 <HackEgo> bin/hurl//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \
01:30:59 <fizzie> Arguably there is a problem in that https://hackego.esolangs.org/ will only work for clients supporting TLS SNI.
01:32:16 <fizzie> `` grep -l 'http:' bin/* | sed -e 's,^bin/,,'
01:32:18 <HackEgo> danddreclist \ define \ dice \ emmental \ etymology \ google \ joustreport \ jousturl \ js \ logurl \ macro \ multicode \ nooooooodl: \ raw-url \ rot0 \ rot256 \ rot26 \ searchlog \ sprunge \ translatefromto \ udcli \ units \ wl
01:32:31 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/rot26
01:32:50 <fizzie> Now I forgot the bin/ part.
01:32:56 <oerjan> pretty sure rot36 is a joke
01:33:15 <fizzie> Yes, they were all symlinks to /bin/echo.
01:33:26 <fizzie> Which probably has an URL in --help.
01:36:25 * oerjan wonders if poiuy_qwert is around under some name
01:37:12 <oerjan> sadly it's been so long, eir nick is about all i remember.
01:39:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51342&oldid=51341 * Mindygalveston * (+572) /* Language Overview */
01:40:42 <boily> oerjan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5solYnY3MM
01:55:23 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> Oh, I thought we had that one <-- now we do hth
01:56:53 <hppavilion[1]> At y, there is a supercircle of degree y and radius 1.
01:59:50 <hppavilion[1]> There is a pizza place here (not sure whether it's local or not- probably a nationwide thing at least) named Papa Murphy's.
01:59:58 <hppavilion[1]> There pizza is good, but it almost always goes wrong
02:00:07 <idris-bot> (input):1:1: error: expected: ":",
02:00:22 <idris-bot> (input):1:8:When checking an application of function Pruviloj.Core.ignore:
02:01:19 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i am pretty sure that the proper way of using sunglasses requires you to make the final part of the statement _between_ take them off and putting them on hth
02:01:44 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I didn't think to use \punglasses until after I said it
02:01:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, I don't think you take them off, you just put them on.
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02:06:19 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: ignore :: [Integer] -> t
02:07:16 <oerjan> well, it _is_ absurd hth
02:07:16 <hppavilion[1]> Has anybody started backing up the TinyURL database to fix https://xkcd.com/1698/ yet?
02:07:20 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Functor t) => t a -> (Bool, t ())
02:08:09 <shachaf> "Fermat’s last theorem has kept people busy for a hundred and fifty years, and I hoped it would keep you busy long enough for me to read Mr Chater’s poem in praise of love with only the distraction of its own absurdities."
02:09:36 <oerjan> > null &&& void $ Nothing
02:10:27 <oerjan> > null &&& void $ ("maybe", "not")
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02:30:25 <oerjan> int-e: lambdabot seems troubled
02:31:15 <oerjan> ( log 31659398 / log 56
02:31:21 <oerjan> ( log 31659398 / log 28
02:32:18 <idris-bot> (input):1:4: error: expected: "#",
02:32:57 <oerjan> `perl-e print (56**4);
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04:35:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51343&oldid=51342 * Mindygalveston * (+1282) continuing to construct thotpatrol page ~~~~
04:37:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51344&oldid=51343 * Mindygalveston * (+39) /* Binary Operator Types */
05:07:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51345&oldid=51344 * Mindygalveston * (+701) added some control sequence info ~~~~
05:08:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51346&oldid=51345 * Mindygalveston * (-1) /* Language Overview */
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05:30:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51347&oldid=51346 * Mindygalveston * (+2085)
05:59:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51348&oldid=51347 * Mindygalveston * (+2921)
06:08:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51349&oldid=51348 * Mindygalveston * (+0) ~~~~fixed title capitalization
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06:32:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51350&oldid=51349 * Mindygalveston * (+927)
06:32:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51351&oldid=51350 * Mindygalveston * (-4) /* Turing Completeness */
06:34:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51352 * Mindygalveston * (+9443) created page for thotpatrol ~~~~
06:36:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51353&oldid=51351 * Mindygalveston * (-9443) done using the sandbox~~~~
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08:15:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51354&oldid=51352 * Mindygalveston * (+71) added implementation status section~~~~
08:16:10 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
08:18:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51355&oldid=51311 * Mindygalveston * (+17) added thotpatrol~~~~
08:20:36 <erkin> A merger of § with Σ maybe
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08:26:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: smackego: not found
08:26:34 <hppavilion1> HackEgo: Learn to understand combining diacritics
08:28:14 <HackEgo> å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
08:30:11 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
08:30:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: småckego: not found
08:30:44 <hppavilion1> `learn The Iditarod is a race so incredibly difficult that it has a prize for coming in last place.
08:30:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'iditarod': The Iditarod is a race so incredibly difficult that it has a prize for coming in last place.
08:33:17 <HackEgo> Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
08:39:02 <hppavilion1> I think that bin/lowercase can be improved by using a y/// instead of an s///, and then putting other characters in there
08:39:25 <hppavilion1> But it will kill the å/Å distinction joke
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08:40:27 <hppavilion1> I'm not going to try, though, because I'll immediately break something if I'm the one to do it
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09:03:26 <hppavilion1> Well, I did try, implementing it as bin/lowercase2
09:06:19 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/
09:06:20 <hppavilion1> There's now a command that can handle lowercasing a *little* better (anything in English as well as Norwegian, Swedish, and German alphabets)
09:06:54 <hppavilion1> shachaf: Because it'd be spammy and I seem to remember that being frowned upon?
09:07:07 <shachaf> I thought it was editing in private that was frowned upon.
09:07:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51356&oldid=51354 * Mindygalveston * (+114) added categorization ~~~~
09:07:19 <shachaf> The best solution is to do it in public without being spammy.
09:07:40 <hppavilion1> shachaf: It's literally a 2-line file, and one of them is just the shebang
09:07:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜ/øåæœþðäöü/'
09:07:55 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
09:09:58 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/Ü/ÜÁ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/ü/üá/" bin/lowercase2
09:10:00 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁ/øåæœþðäöü/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁ/øåæœþðäöüá/'
09:11:00 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/Á/ÁÓ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/á/áó/" bin/lowercase2
09:11:02 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓ/øåæœþðäöüá/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓ/øåæœþðäöüáó/'
09:11:10 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓ/øåæœþðäöüáó/'
09:11:45 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/Ó/ÓÚ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/ó/óú/" bin/lowercase2
09:11:47 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓÚ/øåæœþðäöüáó/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓÚ/øåæœþðäöüáóú/'
09:12:31 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/Ú/ÚÝ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/ú/úý/" bin/lowercase2
09:12:33 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáóú/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáóúý/'
09:13:52 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/Á/ÁÉ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/á/áé/" bin/lowercase2
09:13:54 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáóúý/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéóúý/'
09:14:32 <hppavilion1> `` sed -i "s/É/ÉÍ/" bin/lowercase2 && sed -i "s/é/éí/" bin/lowercase2
09:14:34 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéóúý/' \ bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
09:20:40 <fizzie> That's a little locale-hardcoded.
09:20:42 <fizzie> ``` echo ą | lowercase2
09:27:07 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
09:27:18 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
09:27:40 <hppavilion1> fizzie: ...yeah, what the hell did you do. I don't get it.
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09:31:52 <fizzie> `` for ch in Å å ą ĥ; do unicode $ch | grep UTF-8 | sed -e 's,UTF-8: ,,;s, .*, ,'; done
09:31:55 <HackEgo> c3 85 \ c3 a5 \ c4 85 \ c4 a5
09:32:23 <fizzie> Now you're thinking in bytes.
09:33:20 <shachaf> en_NZ.UTF-8 is the only locale you need.
09:33:32 <fizzie> The fact that we have a bin/`` suggests otherwise.
09:35:35 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän shachäf b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs zzo3̈8
09:36:06 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän shachäf b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs zzo3̈8
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09:51:33 <Jafet> `` python3 -c 'print("gepäckschließfächer".upper())'
09:51:34 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: python3: command not found
09:51:54 <Jafet> `` python -c 'print u"gepäckschließfächer".upper()'
09:51:54 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "<string>", line 1, in <module> \ UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 3-4: ordinal not in range(128)
09:52:10 <hppavilion1> fizzie: Hey, it only breaks with ```. So it's fine.
09:52:25 <Jafet> `` python -c 'print u"gepäckschließfächer".upper().encode("utf8")'
09:56:00 <int-e> why does the firefox image context menu not have a "copy alt text"... and how have I never missed that in the last two decades?
09:56:07 <Jafet> `` python -c 'print u"gepäckschließfächer".upper().encode("latin1")'
09:56:27 <int-e> (actually I want the title, but same story there)
09:57:15 <int-e> anyway, the image title of https://www.xkcd.com/1683/ is relevant somehow.
09:57:20 <shachaf> int-e: You can get it in a few clicks with Inspect Element
09:58:49 <Jafet> disable images, then copy the displayed alt text?
09:59:22 <int-e> Jafet: maybe, though that wouldn't work for the title?
10:00:08 <int-e> shachaf: it's the not having missed it before part that irritates me more :)
10:00:52 <int-e> it's indicating some sort of change and I'm not sure it's for the better.
10:01:28 <HackEgo> 1225) <int-e> (I need to stop talking about my habits so much (Uh I'm doing it again, STOP! (Uh I give up. (Really, I should stop doing this all the time. (AAARGH!)))))
10:10:24 <fizzie> `` echo gepäckschließfächer | perl -C7 -ne 'print "\U$_";'
10:13:06 <int-e> ``` echo Übergrößenträger | perl -C7 -ne 'print "\U$_";'
10:17:41 <Jafet> oh, that was the übergrößenbeispielwort I was looking for
10:21:35 <Jafet> and of course, the following won't work
10:21:52 <Jafet> ``` echo ÜBERGRÖSSENTRÄGER | perl -C7 -ne 'print "\L$_";'
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10:32:12 <Jafet> ``` echo διαστάσεις | perl -CS -ne 'print uc($_);'
10:32:20 <Jafet> ``` echo διαστάσεις | perl -CS -ne 'print lc(uc($_));'
10:42:50 <int-e> shachaf: I actually bought a copy of The Witness btw, at half the price (gog spring sale)... I think it's about worth that much to me :)
10:45:11 <shachaf> int-e: Worth what, about half price?
10:45:40 <int-e> Call me greedy but I'd still want a story for the full price.
10:46:07 <shachaf> Oh, because you got the original as part of the fumble tumble.
10:46:27 <int-e> right, so the developers didn't see any of that money
10:46:39 <shachaf> Do you want as much of a story as Braid?
10:50:36 <int-e> Somehow, Braid's story was sufficient. It's a genre thing to me, I believe... puzzle platformers don't need much of a story, free exploration games do. Maybe I'm being unfair. That said, I don't think Braid is worth its full retail price either. Maybe my standard for game pricing is distorted.
10:51:43 <shachaf> What game is worth its full retail price?
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10:56:56 <int-e> Most Daedalic and Wadjeteyegames adventures I've played so far. So there's a clear bias for that genre here, I guess.
10:59:22 <erkin> eternal golden braid
11:20:58 <\oren\> also kerbal space program
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11:47:02 <HackEgo> smlist 451: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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12:01:30 <HackEgo> Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
12:03:13 <shachaf> Looking forward to the Super Mega book?
12:03:31 <shachaf> Cale: By the way, I'll be in NYC in Apr right after BayHac.
12:03:43 <shachaf> But it sounds like there's nothing much happening around then.
12:04:38 <int-e> . o O ( Are you also annoyed of click bait? We have a solution! Learn more: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/more.html )
12:07:48 <shachaf> But I didn't click those links.
12:08:01 <shachaf> I copied and pasted this link to my web browser.
12:08:14 <shachaf> And then I used tab and enter to follow the others.
12:08:57 <int-e> I don't. I long for the days when the snippet displayed on news website's home pages were summaries of the article's content, rather than an attempt to trap the reader's curiosity.
12:09:34 <Cale> shachaf: I'd almost forgotten about it, but yeah :)
12:09:41 <shachaf> Maybe the word "this" should be banned in headlines.
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12:10:25 <shachaf> Remind me whether you're going to BayHac?
12:11:47 <shachaf> int-e: This mom stopped clicking on clickbait headlines. You'll never guess what happened next.
12:11:56 <Cale> I'm not sure yet. I might end up going anyway, but I have an embryonic plan to connect through BayHac to Melbourne, stay with my friend for a month in Australia (my earlier plan to do that was delayed), and then fly to Sydney for LambdaJam on my way back
12:12:51 <Cale> The 7 best ways to avoid clickbait: you won't believe number 6!
12:12:56 <shachaf> Hmm, if you dislike clickbait enough, that makes the sentence "You'll never guess what happened next." accurate.
12:13:02 <int-e> shachaf: . o O ( She saw her kids for the first time in several years?! )
12:13:28 <int-e> well, I'll happily guess without confirmation :P
12:17:55 <shachaf> Cale: Speaking of which, did you Witnessjam?
12:20:36 <Cale> nope, what's that?
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12:21:09 <shachaf> I mean did you play the game The Witness.
12:21:40 <shachaf> int-e was just talking about how its story wasn't up to his standards.
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12:55:51 <lambdabot> Arrow a => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c')
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13:53:37 <rdococ> when will hp complete this object oriented bf thing?
13:54:02 <rdococ> each cell on the tape could have properties and methods
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14:05:10 <erkin> Careful, it bites.
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14:52:59 <lambdabot> CYUL 111400Z 29013G20KT 30SM FEW045 SCT085 OVC240 M19/M29 A3014 RMK CF1AS2CS5 SLP212
14:53:25 <boily> suddenly -19. reasonably cold.
15:04:42 <lambdabot> LOWI 111450Z 07006KT 030V120 9999 FEW100 SCT130 13/M04 Q1019 NOSIG
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15:05:22 <FireFly> That's like, colder than all winter here :P
15:05:42 <lambdabot> ESSB 111450Z 26003KT CAVOK 05/M03 Q1025 R30/19//53
15:11:02 <boily> FirelloFly. it was above zero all week long, then last night it dropped to -18~-20. much fun.
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16:42:25 <boily> the tournament happened!
16:45:16 <rdococ> they're called portmanthellos, right?
16:45:16 * boily is confused, but has coffee so all is well
16:45:26 <HackEgo> Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
16:46:38 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
16:46:50 <HackEgo> Caffè is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in Italy.
16:46:59 <HackEgo> Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
17:15:10 <HackEgo> @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour.
17:15:35 <olsner> boily might like ##:D, you seem pretty happy
17:15:40 <fizzie> Saw a really useful and informative sign today: https://zem.fi/tmp/footpath.jpg
17:16:46 <boily> erkhin, hellolsner, fiziello.
17:17:23 <boily> olsner: that chännel is wonderful!
17:17:26 <rdococ> isn't there the idea of a number whose magnitude was -1?
17:17:39 <rdococ> i's magnitude is not -1...
17:17:43 <rdococ> I'd find |x|=i more helpful tbh
17:17:49 <rdococ> |x| being magnitude of x ofc
17:22:44 <olsner> boily: hmm, had you already been there before? you seemed to catch up quickly
17:24:35 <boily> no, first time there.
17:26:32 <boily> and you reminded me I had an idlerpg character going on ^^
17:27:15 <boily> meanwhile, rdococ ISN'T HAPPY. BASK IN THE UNIVERSAL HAPPINESS.
17:30:12 <erkin> Basque in happiness
17:30:50 * erkin dives into a sea of ternary bits (trits?)
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17:32:41 * rdococ dives into a sea of negabinary bits
17:44:45 <_11> I read that as nonbinary bits
17:45:25 <boily> h_11o. a bit can't be nonbinary hth
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17:54:27 <newsham> http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Main_Page
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19:08:51 <newsham> http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Paint16b
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19:25:25 <olsner> rdococ: just :D yourself out of unhappiness
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20:35:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51357&oldid=50860 * Serprex * (+64) WASM JIT
20:38:58 <rdococ> I guess that's adding a JITter?
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20:56:00 <__s> I need to make a name to encompass all my befunge interpreters, marsh/bejit/bejit-elvm/funge.py/funge.js/bef.vim doesn't quite roll off the tongue
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20:57:40 <oerjan> something fungal is traditional.
21:01:34 <oerjan> __s: is marsh the common part?
21:02:11 <__s> They're all distinct
21:02:14 <__s> Marsh is the oldest
21:02:41 <__s> It's implemented as 4 interpreters in order to minimize the instruction dispatch overhead by having an interpreter for each direction
21:03:08 <oerjan> i cannot really help you with naming without knowing something they have in common.
21:03:20 <oerjan> (beyond being befunge)
21:03:28 <__s> Nothing in common besides being in the same git repo & being befunge interpreters
21:03:55 <__s> bef.vim is just an attempt to make a Befunge debugger in vim, pretty half baked
21:04:21 <__s> Bejit compiles to an internal bytecode lazily, it was adapted to C++ & with an infinite board size to fit into ELVM
21:04:27 <__s> Thus bejit-elvm
21:04:47 <__s> funge.py uses the python bytecode as the internal format, funge.js uses WASM as the internal bytecode
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21:06:57 <__s> funge.py ended up taking the most effort since efficient emission required adding in a bunch of optimizations on the CFG & optimizing handling of stack depth since CPython segfaults if the bytecode pops an empty stack
21:07:43 <__s> I may eventually dig into coming up with a heuristic for when to store the stack pointer & restore rather than keep shuffling it up with ROT_THREE/ROT_TWO pairs
21:08:16 <__s> Especially now that I've gotten CPython on wordcode, those no-arg instructions take up just as much space as a LOAD_FAST 0
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21:10:42 <hppavilion1> Apparently, the Olympic committee recognized Chess as a sport until recently
21:10:56 <hppavilion1> (can't find when "recently" happened- some sources continue to say it *is* still recognized)
21:12:32 <hppavilion1> Video games could qualify as a sport, but I'm not sure how chess does. I've always thought sports required that the 'athletes' are generally in peak physical condition for the sport (bigness for Handegg, swinginess for Baseball, reflexes for video games, ability to take an 80 kg person to the side in Roller Derby), and I don't see what that'd be for chess
21:12:48 <hppavilion1> Other than, say, not having a brain that's constantly degenerating from age and so forth
21:12:54 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sat Mar 11 22:12:52 2017
21:12:58 <shachaf> oerjan: did you just wake up twh
21:13:11 <__s> Top chess involves keeping fit
21:13:45 <__s> Hours of focus are hard to keep a brain functioning if it isn't kept in a healthy vessel
21:14:41 <__s> http://www.deliberate.rest/?p=281
21:14:52 <hppavilion1> __s: Yeah, figured that would probably be it
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21:22:52 <int-e> FIDE was recognized by the IOC as an international sports organization in 1999, apparently.
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21:34:10 <HackEgo> U+01B7 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER EZH \ UTF-8: c6 b7 UTF-16BE: 01b7 Decimal: Ʒ \ Ʒ (ʒ) \ Lowercase: U+0292 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+01B8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER EZH REVERSED \ UTF-8: c6 b8 UTF-16BE: 01b8 Decimal: Ƹ \ Ƹ (ƹ) \ Lowercase: U+01B9 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-R
21:36:40 <HackEgo> [U+00DF LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S]
21:40:21 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
21:45:30 <oerjan> hm tr has trouble but maybe not sed
21:45:54 <oerjan> `` echo ǘ | sed 'y/Ø/ø/'
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21:48:19 <fizzie> ``` echo ǘ | sed 'y/Ø/ø/'
21:48:28 <fizzie> We sort of discussed this in the logs.
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21:52:55 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
21:53:32 <oerjan> `sled bin/lowercase2//s,sed,LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 &,
21:53:34 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
21:53:51 <oerjan> ``` echo ą | lowercase2
21:54:58 <oerjan> `sled bin/lowercase//s,sed,LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 &,
21:54:59 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 's/Ø/ø/g'
21:55:21 <oerjan> presumably that had the same problem, but with fewer characters.
21:56:45 <oerjan> `` ls -r wisdom/* | grep '[ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ]'
21:57:18 <HackEgo> Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug.
21:57:37 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
21:57:48 <HackEgo> å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
21:58:19 <oerjan> that's the only one that would go, and it would be sort of appropriate
22:00:47 <int-e> Finally a good use for that ring :)
22:01:23 <fizzie> oerjan: Well, I mean, hardcoding the locale for the sed does mean there's no mismatch with the argument, but you still can't use it in a non-UTF8 context.
22:01:34 <fizzie> Unlike an actual locale-aware uppercase.
22:02:08 <int-e> now what's that for: ḁ
22:02:52 <fizzie> int-e: For hiding a ring of power hth
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22:18:50 <oerjan> <shachaf> int-e: This mom stopped clicking on clickbait headlines. You'll never guess what happened next. <-- . o O ( this sounds like a story for the Onion. except the Onion somehow has headlines that are _too_ non-clickbaity... )
22:20:23 <shachaf> oerjan: that's why they launched clickhole.com hth
22:23:16 <int-e> Heh. "Get ClickHole delivered straight to your spam folder."
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01:45:22 <mainfolio> is there any estoric os's out there? Like real estoric meaning it's designed to mess with the user?
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02:00:50 <mainfolio> "Davis is a former atheist who believes that he can "talk with God" and that God told him the operating system he built was God's official temple."
02:02:15 <pikhq> Davis is also literally schizophrenic.
02:04:43 <mainfolio> Im looking for a os that is more designed to annoy the user and be un practicle
02:05:15 <mainfolio> "TempleOS deliberately has no network support"
02:06:26 <mainfolio> It's gui is definitely better the win 10
02:21:10 <mainfolio> The only thing that competes with templeos is Hannah Montana Linux.
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02:29:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 120200Z 28011KT 15SM FEW120 SCT240 M16/M27 A3023 RMK AC1CI3 AC TR SLP242
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02:30:03 <lambdabot> KOAK 120153Z 27010KT 10SM FEW010 BKN200 16/12 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP206 T01610122
02:30:16 <shachaf> absolutely the same temperature
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02:31:21 <shachaf> rdococ: Looking at /lastlog rdococ is striking. Seeing it all at once like that.
02:31:27 <shachaf> Maybe you should take int-e's advice?
02:31:57 <rdococ> shachaf: notice how far apart they are though
02:32:45 <rdococ> even if I said a thing once per day, you'd probably call me out on it
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03:14:21 <hppavilion2> I'm taking the sums of sinusoids with prime periods [defn.: f_k(x) = sin((π/k)(x + k/2))]
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03:32:46 <chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
03:33:14 <erkin> A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
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03:36:16 <zzo38> erkin: I don't know
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03:36:50 <erkin> Bulbous also tapered. With a tin teardrop.
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04:17:18 <hppavilion2> I'm thinking about sin(2πx/k + π/2) for multiples of k and it's weird
04:17:36 <hppavilion2> The points where that is 1 have an x coordinates at a multiple of k
04:19:06 <\oren\> kerbol periapsis is 495,036 TIL in KSP the sun is a point light source, and has no angular extent
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04:26:17 <Jafet> is KSP in fact a valuable and educational simulator and not a media firm's attempt to cash in on the recent space fad as some lunatics suggest?
04:27:09 <tswett> KSP taught me how to change orbital height and eccentricity.
04:27:19 <tswett> Definitely a valuable life skill, right there.
04:30:37 <\oren\> KSP taught me you plan things out better, or use more money, but you can't do things cheaply and not plane them
04:31:52 <\oren\> also, you always should pack some excess resources when you're going someplace far away
05:04:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Garhoogin * New user account
05:08:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51358&oldid=51340 * Garhoogin * (+118) /* Introductions */
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05:41:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Poohbear]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51359 * Garhoogin * (+1295) Created page
05:44:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51360&oldid=51355 * Garhoogin * (+15) /* P */
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05:58:42 <shachaf> Is that the same as a cocone?
05:58:56 <shachaf> A colimit is a universal cocone.
06:05:00 <\oren\> 潟潤潰澄濁濃濫濯瀬炉炊炎為烈焦煎煙煩煮熊燥爆爵牲犠猛猟猫献
06:05:03 <\oren\> 猶猿獄獣獲玄玩珍珠琴瑠璃璧環璽瓦瓶甚畏畔畜畝畳畿疎
06:07:03 <pikhq> You only now added 猫?
06:07:27 <\oren\> strange that I missed such a common one
06:07:54 <pikhq> Several in that batch look at least moderately frequent.
06:10:09 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/joyo-kyoiku.htm this page shows my progress
06:12:08 <\oren\> there are 441 characters left in joyo that aren't covered
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06:39:04 <\oren\> Gabriel DropOut is a good anime
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08:47:48 <hppavilion2> Hey look, an unfortunate birthday list: http://www.famousbirthdays.com/september11.html
08:49:45 <hppavilion2> ...there's a rapper named "The Game". Fuck.
08:51:34 <hppavilion2> ...my Horoscope literally describes the EXACT opposite of me.
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08:59:08 <zzo38> Such things sometimes happens.
09:03:35 <shachaf> perhaps you were born on opposite day hth
10:16:36 <hppavilion2> shachaf: No, I died on opposite day; I don't know when I'm going to be born yet
10:16:45 <hppavilion2> On a DVORAK keyboard, the collating order of the alphabet is UWBDFHTNASQJZVOEPGICLMYXRK
10:18:44 <int-e> https://www.xkcd.com/1787/
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10:28:43 <erkin> https://www.xkcd.com/1806/
10:28:50 <erkin> this is how I feel when friends come over
10:28:53 <erkin> fortunately I don't have friends
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12:12:40 <rdococ> if there's a cone, is there an ne?
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12:47:54 <Taneb> rdococ, this is a quite mmon thing to do in cocategory theory
12:48:23 <rdococ> If you have a theory, can you have a cotheory?
12:48:41 <rdococ> If there is a coconut, can there be a conut? We know a nut exists, after all.
12:48:52 <rdococ> But then what does a conut look like?
12:48:57 <rdococ> Does it look similar to a donut?
12:49:12 <Taneb> A coconut is just a nut
12:49:21 <Taneb> A conut is a nut with the arrows reversed
12:49:24 <rdococ> Hm. Some people spell it doughnut. Maybe a coughnut exists?
12:49:38 <rdococ> Is coughnut spelt cough-nut or co-nut?
12:49:46 <Taneb> I think a coughnut is called a lozenge
12:50:00 <rdococ> So many unanswered questions in conut theory!
12:50:07 <rdococ> Or is it a conut cotheory?
12:50:24 <rdococ> Hm, that could have been a coquestion. Well, it could be if it went like this:
12:50:39 <rdococ> ?yroehtoc tunoc a ti si rO
13:30:02 <Phantom_Hoover> a comathematician is a machine for turning cotheorems into ffee
13:30:56 <rdococ> clearly you need a coffee
13:48:08 <HackEgo> comathematician? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:48:13 <rdococ> you should add it to wisdom
13:48:42 <rdococ> I'm working on (designing, because I am bad at implementation) an esolang designed to run on a GPU or something similar
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14:20:56 <rdococ> I'm working on an esolang where the main data type is the matrix.
14:21:15 <rdococ> wonder how I should style the rest of the esolang tho.
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14:31:36 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Out of interest, who came up with it?
14:32:23 <Phantom_Hoover> you can download the channel logs and grep or use google text search if you're very interested in the history of it
14:33:12 <rdococ> I think it appeared first somewhere else on the internet but idk for sure
14:35:15 <boily> rdochelloc, Phantom_Helloover.
14:36:13 <rdococ> Boily: I'm designing an esolang whose main type is the matrix, any suggestions on the semantics/syntax?
14:37:46 <rdococ> ...Or not. Thanks for the help!
14:38:43 <boily> you should do it the way it is meant to be, but not quite.
14:39:47 <rdococ> You mean with some slight oddities, but other than that, reasonable?
14:40:01 <rdococ> I guess that kinda makes sense. (Oh, and it's also designed to run on a GPU.)
14:59:28 <boily> drinking coffee ^^
15:00:38 <boily> int-ello. no, just a bodumfull of coffee.
15:01:01 <boily> . o O ( dare to drink dere dire coffee... )
15:01:25 <rdococ> do you also codrink ffee?
15:01:39 <rdococ> drinking a liquid allows it to enter your metabolism.
15:01:53 <rdococ> codrinking a cometabolism allows it to enter your coliquid?
15:02:48 <rdococ> your metabolism is a machine for turning food into energy. so your cometabolism is a machine for turning coenergy into cofood.
15:08:54 <boily> https://www.cafeunion.com/ ← Kenya-Sumatra blend
15:10:21 <boily> http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60241389/ ← Glorious French press
15:22:25 <boily> coffee is good for you.
15:24:43 <rdococ> Should my matrices language have first-class functions or not?
15:24:52 <rdococ> Should it have functions at all?
15:28:13 <boily> firstclassify operations, not functions.
15:29:24 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
15:30:43 <rdococ> What is the difference?
15:31:34 <rdococ> function +(x, y) { stuff }
15:31:45 <rdococ> operation x+y { more stuff }
15:37:57 <boily> these operators are only functions applied to two arguments, in an infix syntax. (and an argument could be made that really they are just using a single argument.)
15:38:12 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operator_(mathematics) ← The Other Operator
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15:57:13 <rdococ> I could unfirstclassify something like numbers or booleans.
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16:43:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Poohbear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51361&oldid=51359 * Garhoogin * (+754) Added examples and interpreter link.
16:46:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Poohbear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51362&oldid=51361 * Garhoogin * (+3) fixed code
16:50:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Poohbear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51363&oldid=51362 * Garhoogin * (+381)
17:01:28 <rdococ> I was pinged somewhere but don't know where?!
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17:15:36 <rdococ> Should the matrix index format be A[row, column] or A[column, row]?
17:15:39 <rdococ> I'm assuming the former for nwo
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19:08:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51364&oldid=51356 * Mindygalveston * (+24) fixed a title capitalization, added section link to external resources in implementations ection ~~~~
19:14:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Mindygalveston]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51365 * Mindygalveston * (+191) ~~~~ added minor bio
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19:28:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51366&oldid=51364 * Mindygalveston * (+0) /* Trial and error execution */
19:29:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thotpatrol]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51367&oldid=51366 * Mindygalveston * (+85) /* Syntactical rules */
19:35:07 <rdococ> How about a language designed to run on a GPU?
19:38:01 <zzo38> I think Checkout does?
19:38:28 <zzo38> (And I hope it would be implemented soon enough; I think it would be better than GLSL and also better than ARB assembly language)
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21:13:47 <hppavilion[1]> I'm running an ancient copy of ZORK! on my computer
21:14:08 <hppavilion[1]> It's running in DOSBox, apparently; that seems to be how this version was build
21:14:20 <hppavilion[1]> And I can't figure out how to save it to my more modern OS
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21:20:37 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: Try ZORKMID or JSZM, which are my Z-machine implementations. (Execute the file "STORY.DAT" with them)
21:20:58 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: They're saved to the directory for the program
21:21:04 <zzo38> Howveer, different implementations may use different formats for save files, so it won't help if you want to restore a save game
21:22:52 <zzo38> But ZORKMID can be helpful if you are interested in looking at the instructions that make up the game, since it is a debugger.
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22:48:09 <quintopia> i never thought i would actually meet an esotericker in person, but i'm sitting across the room from shapr right now
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23:34:20 <hppavilion1> I've noticed that when I speak, I will very frequently compress ⟨(that|it) is not⟩ to something like ['tsnot] (one syllable)
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00:09:19 <oerjan> <chatter29> allah is doing <-- ah e's back
00:10:24 <shachaf> chatter2 is not back oerjan is back
00:10:43 <oerjan> and freenode got so surprised it kneeled
00:12:11 <oerjan> and that got rid of em
00:15:00 <oerjan> @check \x -> abs(cos x - sin(x+pi/2)) < 0.01
00:15:14 <oerjan> @check \x -> abs(cos x - sin(x+pi/2)) < 0.01
00:15:33 <oerjan> int-e: what is with lambdabot lately
00:17:15 <oerjan> hppavilion1: <hppavilion2> I'm thinking about sin(2πx/k + π/2) for multiples of k and it's weird <-- sin(x+pi/2) = cos x hth
00:18:17 <hppavilion1> oerjan: But it took me several tries to wind up using π/2 as the phase (I was using something connected to k for most of it), so I had sin(x+π/2) as an artifact of derivation
00:22:49 <oerjan> hm Garhoogin is sending mixed signals
00:23:16 <oerjan> otoh e's smart enough _not_ to get caught in the spam filter, otoh e's made a bf derivative.
00:24:15 <oerjan> `learn OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
00:24:17 <HackEgo> Learned 'otoh': OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
00:25:18 <shachaf> is that not part of the spam filter?
00:25:57 <oerjan> alas, it doesn't check for that.
00:26:26 <oerjan> i suspect ehird would revert it if we tried.
00:30:44 <lambdabot> EGLL 130020Z AUTO 32005KT 290V350 9999 SCT042 09/06 Q1023 NOSIG
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01:02:16 <HackEgo> perpetual motion machine//Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy.
01:02:41 <boily> `cwlprits perpetual motion machine
01:02:47 <boily> . o O ( please be not mine... )
01:03:07 <HackEgo> sport//sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
01:03:47 <HackEgo> spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
01:04:15 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
01:04:22 <HackEgo> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
01:04:27 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
01:04:30 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
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01:37:57 <HackEgo> RTK1604: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:42:43 <HackEgo> 1/2:impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database. \ password//The password of the month is OSBDemoLap9W53! \ did//did: didn't \ c#//C Pound is Java's good twin. \ splay//Splay is a painful pastime that is dual to cosplay and the supersymmetric partner of ordinary play. Recuperation, when even possible, ma
01:42:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:y require wearing a stume.
01:43:01 <HackEgo> 10373:2017-03-08 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is OSBDemoLap9W53! \ 10206:2017-02-04 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7 \ 10065:2017-01-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91 \ 9816:2016-12-02 <shachäf> revert \ 9815:2016
01:43:56 <shachaf> what about those members of the channel who have clearance hth
01:47:35 <boily> some of us have clearance?
01:49:42 <shachaf> I don't even know who in here is American.
01:49:54 <shachaf> You at least know everyone's approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh.
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02:02:30 <boily> there aren't that many Americans left in this here chännel.
02:02:40 <boily> and kmc is strangely logged in???
02:05:07 <boily> time to sleep. I'll resume waving tomorrow.
02:05:16 <lambdabot> Local time for boily is Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:05:14 -0400
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02:06:59 <kmc> oh, too late
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02:45:01 <HackEgo> U+00B5 MICRO SIGN \ UTF-8: c2 b5 UTF-16BE: 00b5 Decimal: µ \ µ (Μ) \ Uppercase: U+039C \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 03BC \ \ U+03BC GREEK SMALL LETTER MU \ UTF-8: ce bc UTF-16BE: 03bc Decimal: μ \ μ (Μ) \ Uppercase: U+039C \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left
02:45:17 <\oren\> why is there a "micro sign"
02:47:13 <\oren\> ok so apparently µ decomposes to μ
02:52:51 <pikhq> That's a compatibility decomposition, not a decomposition.
02:54:21 <pikhq> Note that e.g. "⁶" decomposes to "⁶", but compatibility decomposes to "6".
02:59:52 <hppavilion1> \oren\: Isn't it recommended that you just use a mu, not the 'micro sign'??
03:00:09 <hppavilion1> And micro sign is just there for their overly-pedantic round-trip bullshit?
03:03:49 <zzo38> What is a probability distribution called which is a sum of dice such as 4d6 and so on?
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03:45:10 <hppavilion2> zzo38: I'm curious, the last thing I saw was "What is a probability distribution called which is a sum of dice such as 4d6 and so on?". Did you get an answer??
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04:00:04 <oerjan> not that i saw. i don't know the answer except for Nd2 (binomial distribution)
04:00:49 <shachaf> is oerjan available for hire
04:15:27 <oerjan> zzo38: multinomial distribution is the closest i find, but that's the distribution for the vector counting how many of each value, not the sum.
04:16:17 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to have ruler & compass constructed trigonometry
04:16:35 <hppavilion[1]> (I mean, it only applies to constructible angles. But still!)
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06:12:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unlambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51368&oldid=43686 * Oerjan * (+2398) /* Examples */ Add some more + link to Deadfish interpreter
06:18:32 <oerjan> not sure i'll finish the project i started, so thought i'd at least put up the part i finished.
06:19:10 <oerjan> (the Deadfish interpreter is old, of course, the number parsing is the new part)
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06:42:16 <zzo38> Is there an algorithm for converting a code with savepoints into one without? I know that I can convert a code with goto into one without.
06:46:40 <zzo38> That there is one instruction it save the state of all locals and call stack and so on, and then later you will reload the save state (after the program has restarted)
06:48:17 <Jafet> game over, insert thunk to continue
06:52:50 <Jafet> like for goto, you probably have to emulate stack frames
06:54:31 <Jafet> unless you mean decompiling from CPS, which sounds like something that could be done but no one's ever bothered to
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11:24:28 <HackEgo> article//An article is something that `learn can understand.
11:24:54 <boily> L'article du cabot.
11:25:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: the: not found
11:25:06 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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13:51:32 <lambdabot> LOWI 131320Z VRB04KT CAVOK 14/M04 Q1022 NOSIG
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15:46:09 <rdococ> I am thirsty and delicious
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19:42:42 <\oren\> i am out of coffee. AAAAAAAAAA
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20:44:05 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Presumably it's the Huzita-Hatori axioms, but with <whatever-the-equivalent-to-the-parallel-postulate-is-there> modified
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20:46:33 <zzo38> O, I didn't know there is the axioms of origami, now I can see on Wikipedia that it is.
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21:13:04 <\oren\> hppavilion2: so in other words origami with curved paper
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21:39:24 <\oren\> Nurettin Canikli, a deputy prime ministr,described Europe as a “very sick man”.
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21:53:29 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir//lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends.
22:00:56 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
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22:05:41 <HackEgo> overworld//The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games.
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22:26:19 <Taneb> It really is a breath of fresh air
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22:43:56 <boily> from what I've heard, it's possibly the Best Zelda Out There™.
22:44:12 <shachaf> I've never played a Zelda game.
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22:46:46 <boily> helloochaf. sacrilège!
22:47:03 <shachaf> I've never had a Nintendo device?
22:47:22 <boily> neither did I. emulation for the win!
22:47:23 <shachaf> Unless I'm forgetting one.
22:47:41 <boily> wait. my shogi pieces are made by nintendo. does that count?
22:47:48 <shachaf> Do you recommend that I buy a Nintendo Switch?
22:48:11 <shachaf> Snipper Clips looks pretty good.
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22:50:53 <zzo38> I have some hanafuda from Nintendo, as well as Nintendo DS and Famicom.
22:54:16 <zzo38> I have some shogi pieces somewhere, although I am not sure where they are now and I don't know whether or not it is from Nintendo.
22:58:26 <fizzie> Everyone keeps talking about the Zeldas. :/
22:58:36 <fizzie> One of my colleagues had their Switch at work and all.
22:58:47 <alercah> shachaf: if you think you will enjoy it, get it
22:59:49 <int-e> fizzie: is anyone talking about tides and cyphers?
23:00:13 <fizzie> int-e: I spent a weekend plus a few evenings on them.
23:00:34 * int-e has barely started tbh
23:00:42 <fizzie> Then I won't spoil anything.
23:00:58 <fizzie> Though I have to say Planescape: Torment was funny more often.
23:01:19 <int-e> oh Morte was a jokester.
23:03:44 <int-e> (I have not finished that game btw, at some point the fights became tough... let's see how the new Torment fares)
23:12:57 <shachaf> alercah: And if I don't know?
23:13:48 <shachaf> How many sides should my coin have?
23:14:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you Witnessjam?
23:17:25 <int-e> shachaf: 3 sides, and you should account for the possibilities that it stops in mid air, gets stuck in the ceiling, or turns into a bumblebee.
23:20:05 <shachaf> int-e: Good, most of my coins have three sides.
23:20:18 <shachaf> I guess I have one coin with four sides?
23:20:27 <shachaf> Or maybe seven sides, I'm not sure.
23:20:34 <alercah> is that some norwegian holy coin?
23:20:56 <fizzie> shachaf: Still don't have it.
23:21:13 <shachaf> Ah, I probably asked before.
23:21:23 <shachaf> int-e says it's worth about half its price.
23:22:33 <shachaf> But he spent many hours on it -- seems like the price would be almost a rounding error if he values his time even at minimum wage.
23:23:00 <shachaf> Maybe not a rounding error.
23:23:38 <int-e> I'm not sure it works that way.
23:24:16 <int-e> (This reminds me of that notorious "missing dollar" puzzle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_dollar_riddle)
23:24:28 <shachaf> Maybe int-e values it by how much money the people who made it deserve to get, rather than how much it's worth to him.
23:25:08 <int-e> the price of the game is an extra expense in addition to the minimum wage I'm not paying myself in my own free time.
23:25:17 <shachaf> It's an extra expense, of course.
23:25:20 <shachaf> But not a significant one.
23:25:55 <shachaf> Or that was my claim. But then I checked Germany's minimum wage and estimated how many hours you spent on the game and decided it's not quite a rounding error.
23:30:01 <shachaf> I think int-e took the missing dollar.
23:30:13 <int-e> I guess the basic fact here is that video games are cheap entertainment if you're not interested in getting the newest and most shiny ones as quickly as possible, simply because there are so many of them. so that's what I'm comparing to... prices of other available games, factoring in how much a particular game stands out... it's hardly an objective measure.
23:30:27 <shachaf> $27 (payments) + $2 (bellhop) + $1 (int-e) = $30
23:30:44 <int-e> the whole riddle is just stupid.
23:31:53 <shachaf> Obviously what really happened is that the three people paid a total of $27, and then they got $3 back.
23:32:02 <shachaf> What happened to the other $6?
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23:32:08 <int-e> or, perhaps, it's an instance of the change making con https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks#Change_raising
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23:40:08 <shachaf> Cale: Were you the person who was talking about Dynkin diagrams once?
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23:51:57 <Cale> m... maybe? But probably not.
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00:40:28 <oerjan> <\oren\> Nurettin Canikli, a deputy prime ministr,described Europe as a “very sick man”. <-- heh i wonder if he's purposely doing the "obvious" historical reference
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01:49:24 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: shapr is a male human with an interest in concatenative languages and unicycling
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01:51:57 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: shachaf knows shapr quite well hth
01:53:48 <shachaf> We talked on the phone once.
01:54:18 <quintopia> hey thats at least as well as i know boily
01:54:41 <oerjan> quintopia: hm it sounds like shapr is not easily distinguishable from Taneb
01:55:09 <shachaf> i never talked to Taneb on the phone hth
01:55:10 <quintopia> oerjan: that both have five letter names with "a" in
01:55:29 <shachaf> Also shapr is Swedish from Alabama and Taneb is Dutch from Northumberland
01:55:39 <oerjan> shachaf: well how do you know then that they're not the same
01:55:56 <shachaf> Except I guess shapr isn't Swedish.
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02:48:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unlambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51369&oldid=51368 * Oerjan * (+19) /* Number I/O */ Remove a Deadfish-specific part
02:50:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unlambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51370&oldid=51369 * Oerjan * (-19) /* Number I/O */ Oops, left in a temporary comment
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04:21:39 <sirnaysayer> Gregor is the name of this hot daddy bear that I banged for a while
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04:54:23 <\oren\> http://www.bmj.com/content/331/7531/1498
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05:02:11 <Challenger5> I want to make a variation of Forth, but with like Lisp's reader macros
05:02:59 <Challenger5> so you can define a macro sequence of characters that run some function
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05:09:23 <zzo38> How is that working? Can you explain it more? I don't know Lisp so well
05:11:03 <Challenger5> I don't really understand how they're implemented, but basically you can bind a certain function to a character, and when the reader encounters that character it will run the function, and the output of that function is whatever that expression is replaced with
05:12:23 <Challenger5> For example, `'` is just a macro character that reads an object and replaces it with `(quote object)`, so it's really just syntactic sugar.
05:16:35 <Challenger5> The helpful thing there is that it would eliminate the special case the Forth has of numbers: if it can't find a function it will try to parse the word as a number and push it to the stack
05:17:38 <Challenger5> Instead of just writing the number, you'd write `#n` and the `#` would be a macro sequence that took the rest of the word and parsed it as a number
05:18:49 <Challenger5> So that way you could make nice syntactic sugar like string literals
05:19:02 <Challenger5> as well as just getting a huge mass of unreadable characters, which is really what this is about.
05:22:28 <Challenger5> i$I^G>NaSr3B/n%o:F/.l!DpDy5{}r+_sFY<?r`<McA>RfrfySmW:~2" (Hint: I like seedrandom)
05:25:49 <zzo38> I think there are Forth implementations that are capable of this.
05:26:08 <Challenger5> What, being an unreadable mass of characters?
05:26:22 <zzo38> No, I mean parsing single characters
05:27:39 <Challenger5> I was actually thinking about this language until I realized it was just Forth
05:28:03 <Challenger5> So I figured I would add the macro sequences but apparently Forth already took that idea as well?
05:29:32 <zzo38> Even Forth implementations that can't parse single characters will usually havea way to implement a different parser, so that you could do it anyways
05:31:59 <Challenger5> I guess that my language isn't that original anymore then. But I shouldn't feel to bad about it, because by that logic any programming language is just a variation on Forth with some extra parsing rules.
05:35:05 <Challenger5> On a different note, could someone help me understand how a tag system is Turing complete? Because it makes no sense to me.
05:37:31 <Challenger5> Anyways, from what I can tell, Forth is the "make a new stack-based language and whoops - that's just an extension of Forth" sort of thing.
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14:08:03 <shapr> quintopia: you called?
14:08:19 <oerjan> . o O ( a wild shapr appears )
14:08:53 <oerjan> hi. quintopia seems idle.
14:09:11 <HackEgo> shapr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:09:23 <shapr> HackEgo: are you a bot?
14:09:34 <oerjan> we were discussing whether you counted as an esoterician yesterday.
14:10:01 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
14:10:59 <oerjan> fungot: say hello to shapr
14:11:00 <fungot> oerjan: she likes many voices is it??
14:11:40 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
14:11:59 <oerjan> and a few other things.
14:12:57 <oerjan> that was supposed to be a whois
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14:14:51 <oerjan> !zjoust pathetic (>)*9([-]>[+]>)*-1
14:14:52 <zemhill___> oerjan.pathetic: points -8.67, score 13.09, rank 39/47 (+7)
14:15:17 <oerjan> the hill is all messed up, there's no way i would have got on with that in olden days.
14:16:27 <oerjan> but someone made a program that beat absolutely every competitor every time, which messes up the scoring.
14:17:15 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
14:18:16 <oerjan> (the competitors that were there when it was entered, that is)
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14:21:36 <shapr> hoi tromp, hoe gaat het?
14:22:04 <shapr> and owns the lambda playground
14:22:11 <shapr> and wrote one of the zcash implementations
14:22:25 <Taneb> I should learn Dutch
14:22:41 <shapr> I learned Swedish, but I suggest learning one of the A languages
14:23:05 <oerjan> i know about his lambda calculus and cryptocoin stuff, i just had no idea he was dutch...
14:23:35 <oerjan> Albanian is the hot stuff
14:23:45 <shapr> I'd guess tromp is a US Citizen by now.
14:27:12 <tromp> hi, shapr! enjoying my semi-retirement
14:27:32 <tromp> i'm still a Dutch citizen
14:27:42 <tromp> looking to move back there
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14:45:37 <shapr> tromp: oh that's exciting
14:45:47 <shapr> tromp: you've retired from coding and finance?
14:46:21 <tromp> from financial coding
14:46:48 <tromp> i code for fun now
14:50:38 <shapr> tromp: are you still in the northeast US? I haven't had the chance to meet you.
14:51:37 <tromp> yes, halfway out on Long Island
14:52:09 <shapr> I'm in Atlanta these days, but I'm planning to spend some time in Boston this summer.
14:53:51 <tromp> i was in Boston last summer
14:53:54 <tromp> for the Go congress
14:55:38 <APic> Atlantis > Atlanta
15:02:12 <oerjan> APic: not by altitude hth
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16:08:49 <shachaf> shapr: i believe oerjan was the one who summoned you hth
16:09:32 <oerjan> does that do anything outside the channel?
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16:57:51 <shachaf> Maybe shapr doesn't want to be repeatedly gotten like this.
16:59:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Diagde * New user account
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17:19:33 <HackEgo> keemyb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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17:30:30 <rdococ> that's it. I'm brainstorming an idea for a new data type.
17:31:22 <rdococ> what about a map that maps other data types to yet other data types
17:32:35 <shachaf> please don't unknown-command
17:33:22 <shachaf> Taneb: Why should you learn Dutch?
17:33:47 <Taneb> shachaf, connect to my roots, you know
17:34:09 <Taneb> Also I plan to apply for Dutch citizenship soon and I'd feel bad if I was Dutch but didn't speak it
17:34:28 <Taneb> If I were a polynomial I'd be aiming to be a polyglot polynomial
17:34:39 <shachaf> What sort of polynomial has Dutch as one of its roots?
17:34:53 <Taneb> One over a Tulip field
17:35:44 <shachaf> So polynomials are just elements of a free commutative ring, right?
17:37:09 <shachaf> I guess I should learn Dutch too.
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17:50:05 <shapr> shachaf: ik begrijp het niet!
17:50:12 <shapr> Taneb: you screamt?
17:50:37 <shapr> shapr was at lunch :-P
17:51:38 <shachaf> shapr: Remember that one time we talked on the phone?
17:54:11 <shapr> shachaf: yes, but that was quite some years ago
17:54:25 <shachaf> It can't have been before 2010.
18:00:47 <shachaf> I know some people who weren't even born in 2010. :-(
18:06:03 <Taneb> There might even be people in here born after 2010!
18:06:16 <Taneb> > product [1..2010]
18:06:20 <lambdabot> 3490380374904297188514041562858679236982859710215692384413885363149640928606...
18:06:31 <shachaf> > logBase 10 (product [1..2010])
18:06:59 <shachaf> > sum [logBase 10 x | x <- [1..2010]]
18:08:41 <shapr> I started coding before some of my coworkers were born.
18:09:19 <shapr> Taneb: are you born?
18:09:24 <Taneb> I certainly hope s
18:10:26 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
18:10:32 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
18:11:09 <shachaf> `learn shapr is anonymouse.
18:11:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'shapr': shapr is anonymouse.
18:11:35 * APic died once and was revived
18:12:01 <shapr> does not sound fun
18:13:02 <shapr> APic: are you an advanced programmable interrupt controller?
18:14:02 <APic> Also my Realname
18:14:06 <APic> Andreas Pickart
18:14:11 <APic> So i am a schizophrenic Cyborg
18:14:26 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
18:14:41 <HackEgo> If this sentence is true, then Taneb invented Curry's paradox.
18:14:46 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it.
18:15:08 <rdococ> taneb should stop venting things
18:15:11 <HackEgo> String diagrams would be useful in category theory, except they're unreadable due to being curled up in tiny dimensions. Taneb invented them anyhow.
18:15:19 <shapr> APic: hi! My real name is Shae Erisson
18:15:34 <HackEgo> complex numbers? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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18:15:47 <shapr> I am known for ... uh, starting #haskell and writing simple.ino in AdaFruit's NeoPixel examples.
18:16:06 <shapr> I'm not sure if I'm know for anything else.
18:16:25 <shapr> and knitting things and putting lights on them
18:16:27 <shapr> and speaking Swedish
18:16:36 <shapr> even though I'm from Alabama
18:18:32 * APic learned Haskell more than a Year ago, but have almost completely forgotten it again by now
18:18:51 * APic knows the Languages best that he learned as Child/Adolescent
18:19:05 <shachaf> Is #haskell a shaprvention?
18:19:07 <APic> BASIC, C, x86 Assembly, C++
18:19:23 <APic> (C++ not really anymore since it got so bloated)
18:19:25 <shapr> shachaf: nah, it's a community now
18:20:12 <APic> But i can code in any Language like Perl, Python, Ruby, AWK, Shell, … after a very short While of Preoccupation
18:20:35 <APic> But it is most Fun for me to code in Plain C11
18:21:56 <APic> Know that one too
18:22:06 <APic> You see it on my public .plan
18:22:16 <APic> http://apic.name/Plan.html
18:22:28 * APic wants to write an LLVM-Backend for Brainfuck
18:22:38 <APic> http://c2bf.SVN.SourceForge.Net/svn
18:22:40 <APic> root/brainfuck/c2bf/trunk
18:22:58 <APic> ← already very great
18:23:43 <APic> http://c2bf.SVN.SourceForge.Net/svnroot/brainfuck/c2bf/trunk ← already very great i meant
18:24:00 <APic> Accidentally split it while Pasting 😎
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18:44:32 <shapr> hoe AnotherTest, hoe gaat het met jou?
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20:23:07 <Sgeo_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfCfTYZJWtI
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20:32:47 <fizzie> Sgeo_: I gave that as an example of a "real botloop" here.
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20:58:51 <shachaf> any olsnerventions lately?
20:59:56 <olsner> been working on sedition off-and-on, an optimizing sed to-be-compiler (so far just interpreter though)
21:00:28 <olsner> it also adds sockets and threads to sed
21:01:36 <olsner> ##:D and smilebot are also olsnerventions
21:02:04 <shachaf> you have a lot of olsnerve
21:02:22 <HackEgo> `sled <filename>//<sed script>
21:04:35 <olsner> shachaf: olsnerve? how so?
21:07:48 <olsner> sedition got annoying to work on when I realized my fancy hoopl optimization code was broken
21:10:07 <lambdabot> shapr says: [Regarding Hudak's so-called 'Gentle' introduction] Yeah, the mental brickbat of doom is a bit closer.
21:13:42 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
21:13:46 <lambdabot> CYUL 142100Z 02028G33KT 1/8SM R06L/2400FT/N R06R/2400FT/N SN +BLSN VV003 M08/M10 A2982 RMK SN8 /S06/ PRESFR SLP102 \ ENVA 142050Z 22019KT 9999 FEW028CB SCT042 BKN074 05/M01 Q0990 RMK WIND 670FT
21:13:46 <lambdabot> 22018G32KT \ ESSB 142050Z 24011KT 9999 FEW021 07/03 Q1004 R30/19//58 \ KOAK 142053Z 29008KT 10SM FEW200 24/13 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP174 T02440128 58008 \ PAMR 142053Z 34018G24KT 10SM CLR M06/M19 A2948
21:13:46 <lambdabot> RMK AO2 PK WND 34031/2016 SLP985 T10611189 56014 $
21:14:11 <int-e> . o O ( The trick is to print it on very soft paper. )
21:17:34 <int-e> I really should do some lambdabot hacking :/
21:18:31 <int-e> But somehow there's so little time left between research and games.
21:18:59 <shapr> I've done too much lambdabot hacking
21:19:37 <int-e> well you're not one of the current maintainers, so there's a tiny differenc ;-)
21:19:46 <int-e> (emphasis on "current", obviously)
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21:36:42 <\oren\> One of the transport trucks involved in the collision on Highway 401 was carrying a hazardous material that could turn into hydrofluoric acid if exposed to heat,
21:36:47 <\oren\> "The transport was carrying 14,000 litres of the liquid, most of which has leaked, the report said"
21:36:52 <\oren\> what's the blast radius of 14 tons of hydrofluoric acid?
21:38:59 <pikhq> Not much; HFl doesn't explode.
21:39:26 <pikhq> It's profoundly dangerous, but in a different way.
21:40:47 <\oren\> I hope being 300 km from the spill is enough
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21:41:17 <\oren\> but it's probably going to go into the lake, so...
21:41:30 <\oren\> they won't need to fluoridate our water anymore
21:41:54 <\oren\> ("the lake" being Lake Ontario btw)
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21:47:17 <int-e> (I was thinking of HF as a gas, not as a solution in water. The latter is also nasty though. http://patientsafetyauthority.org/ADVISORIES/AdvisoryLibrary/2006/Jun3(2)/Pages/11.aspx is interesting but also potentially disturbing.)
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21:54:14 <olsner> looks like HF was the subject of the very first "things I won't work with" post, http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2004/03/03/things_i_wont_touch_1
22:08:38 <\oren\> ok apparently it's a refrigerant that breaks down into HF when heated
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23:24:18 <lambdabot> CYUL 142315Z 02021G31KT 1/8SM R06L/1600FT/N R06R/1400V2600FT/U +SN +BLSN VV002 M08/M10 A2968 RMK SN8 SLP055
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23:29:16 <lambdabot> EGLL 142320Z AUTO 26006KT 9999 NCD 10/09 Q1033 TEMPO BKN008
23:29:29 <lambdabot> EFHK 142320Z 20019KT 4500 -RASN BKN004 02/01 Q0999 TEMPO 2000
23:29:44 <fizzie> Bhrr, that's going to be a downgrade.
23:31:40 <boily> fizziello. going back home?
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23:44:21 <boily> hppavellon[1]. are you snowed too, in your Faraway Lands?
23:47:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Charliefoxtrot * New user account
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23:59:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 142350Z 26025KT 9999 SHRA SCT016CB BKN023 04/02 Q0991 RMK WIND 670FT 24015KT
23:59:40 <lambdabot> KOAK 142353Z 30009KT 10SM FEW200 24/12 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP166 T02440122 10256 20183 56008
00:01:41 * oerjan got soaked by this stupid weather
00:02:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51371&oldid=51358 * Charliefoxtrot * (+198)
00:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Evil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51372&oldid=47260 * Charliefoxtrot * (+653) Added quine
00:04:27 <oerjan> slush storms are the worst.
00:06:26 <oerjan> i suppose technically fire storms are worse.
00:09:04 <boily> is there such a thing as slushy fire?
00:09:29 <oerjan> not with water slush, i suspect
00:09:36 <oerjan> maybe lava slush will work.
00:10:26 <fizzie> boily: Just for a visit.
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00:22:49 <quintopia> shapr: if you are free another sunday, ill take you up on the offer to talk my ear off about testing. ill buy lunch.
00:23:40 <quintopia> boily: if youre free another sunday.... :D
00:25:34 <boily> . o O ( who is this shapr person again? )
00:26:47 <HackEgo> Your buddha oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:26:58 <\oren\> oerjan: at least you weren't soake in hydrofluoric acid
00:27:20 <hppavilion[1]> Gragh, what's the command to sed wisdom/oerjan again?
00:28:21 <hppavilion[1]> `` slwd oerjan 's/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/'
00:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> `` slwd oerjan//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:28:35 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 8: unterminated `s' command
00:29:01 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: YOU are excessive
00:30:25 <oerjan> `sled test//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:30:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it doesn't use ``
00:31:35 <oerjan> half the point of it is to _not_ have to escape regexps, which `` would defy.
00:31:56 <hppavilion[1]> `slwd oerjan//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:31:58 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:32:26 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm sure there's a better title than "excessive", but that's what it is in ZORK!. I imagine it'll now constantly change)
00:32:49 <\oren\> ok, now I'm trying to mod ksp
00:35:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Happy π day | The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:37:59 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's already over here hth
00:38:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Happy π day to those living under the 2-norm | The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:39:05 <hppavilion[1]> In Manhattan, π day is instead --03-31 (approximating --04-00)
00:40:55 <hppavilion[1]> A circle is the set of all points equidistant from some center point (equidistant being the radius)
00:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> If you use something other than the 2-norm (euclidean distance) as your definition of distance, you get different shapes, and if you use that same norm to then measure the circumference and divide it by the diameter (2 if you go with the unit circle), you get different values for different norms
00:42:33 <hppavilion[1]> And you could say they're different values of π under different norms (or different circles). In Manhattan distance (1-norm, taxicab distance, whatever), π = 4
00:43:37 <HackEgo> internationale//You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee.
00:44:00 <HackEgo> Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeud to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu.
00:44:08 <HackEgo> Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu.
00:45:37 <boily> colour is the proper spelling.
00:47:16 <hppavilion[1]> `learn zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
00:47:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'zed': zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
00:54:49 <HackEgo> zed//Zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
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01:27:58 <quintopia> boily: shapr has been at #esoteric since forever, but not often
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01:40:07 <boily> must've been quite the forever, to not even be recorded through History.
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01:51:30 <HackEgo> 20) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! \ 277) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! \ 538) <Phantom_Hoover> OMG <Phantom_Hoover> What if <Phantom_Hoover> we shoot Hitler with neutrinos
01:52:54 <quintopia> see. Hitler is more famous than Ghandi
01:54:03 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: if you were looking for a search to come up empty, you probably shouldn't search someone so famous!
01:54:29 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I forgot that it includes the text of the message
01:57:31 <HackEgo> 998) <shachaf> oerjan is spreading the tired rumour that if you play Nietzsche backwards you hear Jewish messages.
01:58:22 <pikhq> That sounds more German, or maybe Yiddish.
01:58:37 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, I've never taken or even heard Hebrew in my entire life other than as background gargle on maybe Supernatural
01:58:49 <oerjan> the famous russian physicist Nietsnie
02:00:30 <pikhq> Apparently German at one point; the double s is a ligature of S and Z originally.
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02:06:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: obvious satanist and in the wrong channel
02:06:49 <pikhq> I wonder how many satanists are here.
02:07:01 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: omegasome
02:07:21 <quintopia> what's wrong with having satanists here
02:07:45 <hppavilion[1]> PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH CTHULHU R'LYE- sorry, something in my throat.
02:07:53 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: That was my assumption. There aren't that many satanists who aren't LaVeyan or clearly informed by him.
02:07:56 <oerjan> quintopia: well they're summoning demons
02:08:18 <quintopia> oerjan: also okay, as long as no summoning succeeds
02:08:45 <hppavilion[1]> I can't tell if I'm being called a satanist at the moment
02:10:30 <oerjan> i can't tell if your jokemeter is miscalibrated
02:10:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well I know that this is all a joke, I just don't know whether I'm a satanist in it
02:11:44 <pikhq> Well, are you a satanist?
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02:28:33 <oerjan> oh, pi day is also einstein's birthday
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03:28:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:ith neutrinos \ 959) <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think hitler made any bf derivatives \ 982) <kmc> hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too <kmc> he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas <Fiora> oh! he killed hitler <kmc> oh yeah, there we go <kmc> thanks Fiora <Bike> he also killed the guy who killed hitler
03:39:53 <\oren\> I have made three new parts for KSP
03:39:59 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/pHMQK4.jpg
03:40:02 <\oren\> The GNR-KM Long-Mission RTG is powered by Kerbicium, which isn't found anywhere in nature. It outputs a small amount of electricity, but will last a lot longer, we're told. It's blue, too!
03:40:08 <\oren\> The GNR-PO High-Power RTG is powered by polarium, found on the moon Pol and also in the dirt we dug up when we planted the space centre's flag pole. It outputs a lot of electricity and is definitely not just a normal RTG painted red.
03:40:12 <\oren\> The GNR-BP Low-Cost RTG is powered by Boppium, a common isotope found in waste from recycled LV-N rocket motors. It's significantly cheaper than other RTGs. It lacks both power and longevity though.
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06:27:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Antixk * New user account
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10:41:48 * hppavilion[1] is now playing: Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A Changin'
10:42:02 * hppavilion[1] is now playing: Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A Changin'
10:43:08 * boily mapoles hppavilion[1] in the plugin parts
10:43:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has left ("HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH").
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10:44:05 <thenewguy> ...apparently this nick is registered.
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10:47:27 <hppavilion[1]> Now I have a CTCP reply WA that allows you to ask arbitrarily what I'm listening to (replying via privmsg) AND a ctcp WA_NEXT to make me change when I have bad taste
10:48:26 <lambdabot> KLAN 150953Z 31011KT 10SM CLR M09/M14 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP234 T10941144
10:48:44 <boily> -9 °C to defenestrate oneself? you're courageous!
10:51:15 <fizzie> Apparently it's in Lansing.
10:51:38 <hppavilion[1]> I'm waiting for people to abuse CTCP HPPAVILION[1] WA_NEXT
10:53:01 <boily> huh. seems to work
10:54:11 <boily> it works if I semi-flood. also, you have a weird playlist.
10:54:31 * hppavilion[1] is now playing: Chromatik - Trumpet in Bb, Cornet in Bb, Flugelhorn - 99 Red Balloons - Nena Sheet Music, Chords, and Vocals
10:54:34 <Vorpal> I have a love hate relationship with Ubuntu LTS. On one hand I don't have to do a major update as often. On the other hand, they feel less stable than normal releases as of late.
10:55:00 <hppavilion[1]> I'm shocked that there's a Flugelhorn rendition of 99 luftballons at all..
10:55:36 <boily> Vorpal: haven't had any major problems with mine, but I think I get how you feel. it just feels... less?
10:56:27 <Vorpal> boily: well, I have an old core 2 duo laptop with intel graphics and intel wifi. Until the most recent LTS it worked perfectly. Now suspend & resume is kind of broken. And the screensaver too.
10:56:39 <Vorpal> I get double screensavers while running MATE apparently
10:56:52 <Vorpal> So I get two password unlock dialogs
10:57:33 <Vorpal> Hah, yeah same password
10:57:36 <Vorpal> the suspend resume issues are worse though. On resume, sometimes the wifi doesn't scan properly, so it doesn't detect any network. Forcing a scan via the command line as root fixes it.
10:58:24 <Vorpal> The worse issue is that the graphics in some programs such as chrome and steam (but not firefox) breaks and starts to flicker diagonally after resume. Rebooting or restarting X11 fixes that
10:59:07 <Vorpal> (why do I have steam on this? It isn't good enough to game. True, but I can still do other stuff, such as activate codes or whatever from it)
11:01:06 <Vorpal> fizzie: Hm, considering migrating cfunge from bzr. Any suggestions? Either hg (bitbucket hosting) or git (github) I think. I'm way more used to hg (use it at work), but it feels like it isn't very popular these days.
11:01:11 <boily> core 2 duo desktop with an old nvidia card somewhere. I have never seen suspend working.
11:01:22 <Vorpal> boily: well this is a laptop, an old thinkpad
11:01:34 <Vorpal> So it kind of matters more. If it was a desktop I wouldn't care
11:01:49 <Vorpal> I don't think my desktop suspends properly under Windows even.
11:02:00 <boily> that's what I have here, an old secondhand machine. it supports windows 7!
11:03:07 <Vorpal> Anyway I can't figure out which programs triggers the graphics glitch. It appears that it isn't stuff using opengl to render or some such simple thing, since glxgears doesn't have that issue
11:03:29 <boily> do you have any issues with libreoffice? weird pink rectangles?
11:03:42 <Vorpal> I don't think I have that installed
11:03:59 <Vorpal> Also I recently rebooted, so I don't have the issue right now
11:04:38 <Vorpal> Actually I have it installed, and I remember writing a letter in it a couple of weeks ago (LaTeX felt overkill for that). So probably not?
11:05:08 <Vorpal> boily: is that an issue you have?
11:07:29 <boily> I had that a few years ago on my ancient thinkpad when in university.
11:08:47 <Vorpal> Probably need a new laptop soon. Any recommendations? Need a trackpoint and a matte screen. 16:10 monitor would be great, but I don't have high hopes.
11:08:55 <Vorpal> Does that leave me with only thinkpads?
11:09:21 <Vorpal> I might go for non-intel graphics this time around though. Needs to work with linux of course
11:11:07 <boily> https://system76.com/ ← I have their Galago.
11:11:17 <boily> (well, a previous generation of galago.)
11:11:54 <Vorpal> boily: do they ship to EU?
11:11:55 <fizzie> Vorpal: Don't really have any suggestions, though bitbucket does git as well. I'm not too keen on the web experiences of either Bitbucket or Github, but they both get the job done.
11:12:06 <boily> Vorpal: eh, maybe? lemme check.
11:12:23 <Vorpal> also that page makes my old thinkpad swap heavily
11:13:24 <boily> https://system76.com/shipping
11:14:05 <boily> I have you filed as "Sweden?" in the The File. do you per chance have more precise geographic coördinates and body weigh?
11:14:36 <Vorpal> boily: Sweden is close enough. I value my privacy
11:15:00 <Vorpal> So yeah looks like they ship there
11:16:27 <Vorpal> "System76 manufactures US keyboard layouts on all laptops. You can choose your own language and software-based layout during the first time-user setup. Keyboard stickers may be used to adjust to your specific language."
11:16:36 <Vorpal> boily: argh no. Your enter key is the wrong size
11:16:56 <Vorpal> Also stickers will wear out quickly
11:17:26 <Vorpal> I worn out molded keys after all. A sticker wouldn't stand a chance
11:17:56 <Vorpal> Also UPS shipping? Ouch. That is the shipping company from hell. At least over here in Sweden.
11:18:33 <boily> it's hell here too. I think I ranted about them quite a few times on this channel.
11:18:51 <boily> (that, or PDFs. another TLA from hell.)
11:18:57 <Vorpal> boily: DHL or the national postal service are far preferable.
11:19:51 <Vorpal> boily: what does PDF has to do with it? Isn't it just a subset of postscript?
11:20:16 <Vorpal> That is then encoded as binary
11:20:20 <Jafet> it's a subset of a superset of postscript
11:20:23 <Vorpal> as opposed to human readable
11:20:48 <Vorpal> Jafet: Well I guess that makes sense. PDF has features that doesn't make send in PS. Like bookmarks and links.
11:20:53 <fizzie> I bought one of those "XMG" laptops from https://www.mysn.de/ once, mostly because you could customize what you get. Though I'm not unequivocally happy in retrospect.
11:21:06 <Vorpal> What was wrong with it?
11:21:44 <fizzie> Poor battery life, noisy fans. Weighs a lot, especially with a gigantic power brick.
11:21:58 <fizzie> It was more of a desktop replacement than a laptop, really.
11:22:32 <Vorpal> Yes those would all be issues for me
11:23:10 <Vorpal> I'm looking to start studying again this fall. So I need a replacement for this 15" thinkpad that is not so outclassed by my phone.
11:23:30 <fizzie> My work laptop's a Thinkpad Carbon X1, it's not too bad.
11:23:39 <Vorpal> fizzie: how is the keyboard?
11:23:46 <fizzie> They keep coming up with new versions of it, I think they're up to v5 now.
11:24:03 <Vorpal> I wouldn't mind a thinner laptop. This one has the USB ports vertically on the side.
11:24:45 <fizzie> It keeps getting categorized as "ultraportable", although that's probably a rather meaningless word.
11:25:05 <fizzie> ...gone partially USB-C.
11:25:10 <Vorpal> fizzie: can you replace components, like the memory or the HDD in it?
11:25:21 <Vorpal> If it is a netbook I would expect no
11:25:36 <fizzie> I don't think "netbooks" really are a thing any more.
11:25:40 <Vorpal> Also that is expensive. Almost 2 grand
11:26:45 <Vorpal> Well okay there seems to be like 15 variants of it, ranging from 1k USD to >2k USD
11:26:51 <fizzie> I'm guessing you can likely replace at least the storage, not so sure about the RAM. Probably not that.
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11:27:30 <fizzie> Don't think I can really recommend it from a worth-the-price perspective, seeing as I didn't actually buy one.
11:27:39 <fizzie> But if someone gives you one I'd take it.
11:28:02 <Vorpal> how large is the screen on that thing?
11:28:30 <fizzie> I think it's a 14" screen or something.
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11:29:06 <Vorpal> hm so smaller than my current one
11:29:12 <Vorpal> I really like the 15" form factor
11:29:23 <fizzie> I've got the 2560x1440 variant, which is a little awkward when plugged into an external monitor as well, thanks to Linux not being so great on monitors that have different DPIs.
11:30:27 <Vorpal> fizzie: windows sucks at it too. At least windows 7
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11:34:50 <Vorpal> Something like this doesn't look too bad: https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?e=3408631
11:35:01 <Vorpal> fizzie: you can read Swedish right?
11:35:11 <Vorpal> Don't really need the DVD drive though
11:38:56 <Vorpal> Why is it with the two factor code, that when you open the app there is almost always like 5 seconds left before the codes refresh, so you have to wait to have any chance of submitting the code in time.
11:39:28 <Vorpal> Would be more likely to be uniformly distributed over the 30 second interval
11:48:33 <fizzie> Someone told me there's usually a bit of a grace period so you can still use the first one. Assuming you can manage to type it in.
11:49:02 <fizzie> (I usually just wait patiently.)
11:49:51 <lambdabot> EGLL 151120Z AUTO 28004KT 200V360 9999 NCD 13/09 Q1034 NOSIG
11:50:07 <fizzie> Sure doesn't feel like 13 degrees in the sun.
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13:02:49 <Jafet> agner's notes on skylake: The processor turns off the upper half of the 256-bit execution engine when it is not used, in order to save power. Instructions with 256-bit vectors have a throughput that is approximately 4.5 times slower than normal during an initial warm-up period of approximately 56,000 clock cycles or 14 μs.
13:03:33 <Jafet> do we have any power-aware esolangs yet
13:04:22 <int-e> I wonder whether that's to be taken literally :)
13:04:52 <_11> huh, I didn't know that
13:05:05 * _11 wonders about some inline assembly in a Rust program of theirs
13:06:45 <Vorpal> Jafet: "approximately 56,000 clock cycles or 14 μs", man processors are faaast these days
13:07:28 <Vorpal> Also how soon after you stop using those instructions does it turn them off?
13:07:50 <Taneb> _11, I once managed to get close to inline assembly in Agda, I'm sure you can manage
13:07:54 <_11> Vorpal: man, they are
13:08:08 <Jafet> I could find out, if I had a skylake
13:08:24 <_11> Taneb: erm, I was wondering whether my program was affected by that slower throughput
13:08:46 <Taneb> Ah, sorry, didn't see context
13:15:44 <fizzie> There's an Inline::ASM Perl module.
13:16:05 <fizzie> I've only done Inline::C, which was already ridiculous enough.
13:19:36 <Vorpal> It gets silly yes, having to try to tell the compiler what registers you are messing with, and all that
13:20:07 <Vorpal> the syntax for that in gcc is silly complicated. Why not it slightly less compact and 10 times more readable
13:21:53 <Jafet> gcc should really just provide more builtins so that you can write all your assembly in C
13:21:54 <fizzie> I have the impression the syntax evolved from GCC internals (in particular the machine description language), not from a principled attempt at designing an inline asm syntax.
13:22:18 <Vorpal> Jafet: I looked up that agner thingy. Really cool, but how on earth did he figure this out?
13:22:54 <Jafet> it gets silly these days when you have to pick registers in an asm block in order to tell the cpu what your data flow graph is so that it can rename all those registers internally
13:22:56 <Vorpal> fizzie: that would make a certain amount of sense
13:23:48 <Vorpal> Jafet: sure, but does Intel & AMD make all this information public somewhere, or how does he know?
13:23:54 <Jafet> Vorpal: from debugging the unexpected results of his benchmarks, presumably
13:25:52 <Jafet> agner is one of those professional cpu archaeologists who spend all their time studying undocumented computing artifacts from alien cultures, like haswell CPUs
13:26:54 <Jafet> with the help of priestly texts written in a shroud of secrecy, like the official intel manuals
13:28:24 <fizzie> Possibly sometimes even exothermic, if you get it wrong.
13:32:17 <Vorpal> Jafet: what do you have against haswell?
13:35:24 <Jafet> it was just an example of an architecture whose internal workings are largely secret (which, these days, is all of them)
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16:19:05 <oerjan> `` grep KLAN share/air*
16:19:06 <HackEgo> 3544,"Capital City","Lansing","United States","LAN","KLAN",42.7787,-84.587357,861,-5,"A","America/New_York"
16:20:04 <oerjan> `` grep ENVA share/air*
16:20:04 <HackEgo> 665,"Vaernes","Trondheim","Norway","TRD","ENVA",63.457556,10.92425,56,1,"E","Europe/Oslo"
16:25:23 <\oren\> "Trump ‘true friend of Muslims,’ Saudi prince says after meeting"
16:25:32 <\oren\> lololololololololololololololol
16:25:44 <oerjan> some people know everything about sucking up
16:27:02 <int-e> well, for some reason Saudi Arabia wasn't included in Trump's travel ban...
16:30:33 <\oren\> the onion isn't fake enough anymore
16:31:34 <\oren\> what's next? "Geert Wilders is a true friend of the Moroccan people, says Moroccan Imam"
16:31:47 <oerjan> . o O ( Onion shuts down as they're unable to compete with the real world )
16:44:38 -!- augur has joined.
16:52:45 <oerjan> `frink 56000/14 microseconds
16:52:56 <HackEgo> 1/250 (exactly 0.004) s (time)
16:53:43 <oerjan> `frink 56000/(14 microseconds)
16:53:47 <HackEgo> 4000000000 s^-1 (frequency)
16:55:15 <oerjan> `units 56000/(14 microseconds)
17:12:07 <HackEgo> olist 1068: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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17:38:02 <oerjan> let's hope they find his sword, at least.
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18:20:15 <rdococ> I watched this Portal video which showed a three portal gun which could clone things (something goes in blue, comes out orange and red). Imagine if a piece of esoteric hardware could take advantage of this.
18:20:24 <rdococ> Would it be any different from normal hardware, though?
18:20:31 <rdococ> I can't imagine it would be different.
18:38:49 <Vorpal> <oerjan> let's hope they find his sword, at least. <-- ??? what is this in reference to? I don't think I have anyone on ignore in here, so where there no context?
18:40:58 <Vorpal> oerjan: still blanking on that one
18:41:18 <oerjan> it's two lines above hth
18:41:31 <HackEgo> olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
18:42:31 <Vorpal> oerjan: strange notification system. No RSS?
18:43:45 <Vorpal> Right, so it doesn't have to make sense then :D
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18:54:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[HI9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51373 * Rdococ * (+978) In order to help fellow esolangers prove that their new esolangs can quine, I have designed this Turing-incomplete masterpiece.
18:56:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51374&oldid=51339 * Rdococ * (+130) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */
18:59:09 <oerjan> rdococ: actually there are several other interpreters supporting quines, e.g. the one with source code "Hello, world!Hello, world!" hth
18:59:40 <oerjan> a quine should not take input. so only the _empty_ source works.
19:00:13 <rdococ> You're misinterpreting it :/
19:00:33 <rdococ> The point is that implementing HI9+ in a languages requires the code required to produce a quine.
19:01:02 <rdococ> This was not the case in HQ9+, hence my construction of HI9+.
19:01:10 <rdococ> Also, the first two letters spell hi :P
19:01:13 <oerjan> rdococ: yes, but my "Hello, world!Hello, world!" example still works.
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19:01:38 <int-e> oerjan: if that's your interpreter
19:01:58 <rdococ> What language is this source code, "Hello, world!Hello, world!", written in?
19:02:08 <rdococ> That apparently interprets HQ9+?
19:02:16 <int-e> I believe rdococ may have stumbled on a novel idea here.
19:02:20 <oerjan> that doesn't actually matter.
19:02:27 <rdococ> Stumbled and tripped on a novel idea.
19:02:44 <oerjan> it's novel, i'm just not sure it completely proves the language is capable of quining.
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19:03:25 <int-e> it probably doesn't because you can use all the ways that are typically considered cheating, like that "cat $0" idea.
19:03:37 <rdococ> oerjan: You're probably right - I think it's something to do with causing an arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point.
19:03:49 <shapr> Is there joybot on this channel?
19:04:08 <int-e> also if a language cannot produce any output before receiving any input, which is a more plausible (esoteric) idea.
19:04:29 <rdococ> Imagine a language with only one command, K, that only prints its source code if the input given is I, for example.
19:04:51 <rdococ> You can't cause the effect (quining) at an arbitrary point; at least, not if the input isn't I.
19:04:59 * shapr 's imagining breaks
19:05:34 <oerjan> shapr: i don't recall having joy. we have underload and J though >:)
19:06:09 <oerjan> (underload is the turing tarpit version of joy)
19:06:35 <rdococ> as in, "I can't remember exactly what J is, but if it's what I think it is then I like it."
19:08:20 <oerjan> i think constant-printing REPL commands are usually excluded.
19:09:06 * oerjan doesn't know enough J to do a quine, anyhow.
19:09:07 <rdococ> Ooh, I just had another terrible idea!
19:09:32 <rdococ> (Or Siri. Heck, maybe Cleverbot.)
19:09:58 <rdococ> (Or Alexis. Why did I think Cortana anyway?)
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19:12:06 <rdococ> Why do I feel like GHOST could be turned into something more interesting?
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19:20:04 <shapr> Also, does #esoteric have ops?
19:20:31 <shapr> just wondering, since the founder is set to freenode-staff
19:20:44 <shapr> Does founder-ness need to be recovered on this channel?
19:21:37 <int-e> `` dc <<<121272482149097494073462794d110376905358396dPrn100PnP
19:21:38 <HackEgo> dc <<<121272482149097494073462794d110376905358396dPrn100PnP
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19:22:21 <shapr> shachaf: ok, just checking
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19:23:03 <int-e> also, /quote chanserv access #esoteric list
19:23:27 <shachaf> Vorpal: I don't have an RSS reader. hth
19:23:44 <shachaf> Or /msg chanserv for us non-fancy people.
19:24:09 <int-e> in theory, /quote chanserv protects against absence of services
19:24:31 <int-e> (and somebody taking the nick.)
19:24:46 <shachaf> I suppose that's true. IRC is kind of scow.
19:25:10 <int-e> But I don't know whether the freenode servers even have a problem there.
19:25:45 <shachaf> Doesn't really matter for access list, anyway.
19:26:00 <shapr> xu do tavla mi bau la lojban
19:26:14 <shapr> wait, is this only esoteric programming languages?
19:26:15 <shachaf> I guess I could create an evil ChanServ lookalike bot just in case.
19:26:36 <int-e> I have an alias anyway, /cs = quote chanserv... I believe it's an irssi default but I may be misremembering.
19:26:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fi'i: not found
19:26:52 <shachaf> -!- Irssi: Unknown command: cs
19:27:05 <shachaf> Back when I used xchat I think it was a default.
19:27:14 <shachaf> I guess someone needs to make welcome.jbo
19:27:29 <HackEgo> shapr: Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för esoterisk programmeringsspråksdesign och -driftsättning! För mer information, se vår wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
19:27:31 <int-e> ah, yes, it could be that I took it from xchat.
19:28:12 <shapr> jaså! det är jättebra!
19:28:25 <shapr> Nu är jag så glad att traffa ni!
19:28:35 <HackEgo> shapr: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
19:28:52 <shapr> minä en puhu suomea
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19:29:46 <shapr> I don't know any Hebrew, sadly.
19:29:50 <shapr> looks like a fun language.
19:30:01 <shapr> Oh, random question ... the spoken language part of my brain is the same part I use for coding.
19:30:12 <shapr> Most of my coworkers have said they use the math part of their brain for coding
19:30:37 <shachaf> My skull is opaque so I can't see my brain unfortunately.
19:30:39 <shapr> What do the people here consider themselves?
19:30:46 <shachaf> Or maybe my skull is transparent and only the skin is opaque?
19:31:22 <rdococ> At the moment, I'm taking GHOST and making it more useful.
19:31:29 <rdococ> Well, not GHOST, but creating a derivative.
19:31:30 <shapr> shachaf: do you approach programming as if it were poetry/prose? or as if it were a mathematical equation to solve/simplify?
19:31:58 <rdococ> A mathematical equation to solve is mathematical poetry.
19:32:29 <shapr> hm, interesting thought
19:32:41 <shapr> I know proofs can be elegant or ugly
19:33:11 <shachaf> The real question is whether you have a pooch?
19:33:57 <shapr> non, je n'as pas un cabot
19:34:20 <shapr> j'ai une petite amie
19:34:50 <HackEgo> joustelevit pakenne hedeltamiessamme käsi selleen valtasairalla määrästymien tilaukaileva korjateisvat maammiltanne tartamaksi polvittävästä kuolasta rohkansaansa suudattavakseni takottamilta hentämmikseni liehumalta tehdessäsi koettomaisevimpaa
19:35:03 <HackEgo> lingarsamlats sligastet kub kurslag strimfa preniga misse urskogade spar sidisk musidan samman förgångs synen meradikeling tioners balistrafi spet sterskrivits spens
19:35:13 <shapr> hyvää huomenta fizzie !
19:35:23 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Wed Mar 15 19:35:22 2017
19:35:30 <fizzie> Täällä alkaa kyllä jo olla ilta.
19:36:08 <shapr> I spent a solid two years trying to learn Finnish while living in Finland, I failed :-(
19:36:38 <shachaf> Did you learn any esoteric programming languages while you were there?
19:37:27 <fizzie> There's only two matches for "Finnish" in the wiki.
19:37:36 <fizzie> List of ideas, and Poochiewuddledumpling-Boobledarling.
19:37:57 <shapr> I gave a talk to to Georgia Tech Computer Science classes today, about agile programming. I wore the Haskell sweatshirt I got from Edward Kmett. Happily, one of the classes was appreciative of my awesome hoodie.
19:38:59 <shachaf> Those don't sound too esoteric.
19:39:07 <shachaf> Haskell is practically mainstream.
19:39:18 <shapr> Haskell was quite esoteric in 1999
19:40:16 <shapr> just had to start a community
19:41:57 <\oren\> in 15 minutes the dutch election exit polls will be release suposedly
19:42:13 <shapr> ik begrijp het niet!
19:42:15 <\oren\> we shall see whether the nazis win or the other nazis win
19:42:33 <\oren\> erdogan says they're all nazis
19:44:18 <\oren\> so which nazi will be the new ducth prime minister
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19:48:05 <hppavilion[1]> This is the most delightful wikipedia redirect ever: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_one_with_the_whales&redirect=no
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20:02:11 <Vorpal> fizzie: well that was interesting. Apparently converting bzr to hg works flawlessly. But git fast-import fails if I try to convert it to git.
20:02:21 <Vorpal> And looking at the file I see no reason why it should fail
20:02:23 <Vorpal> fatal: Unsupported command: fs/heads/master
20:02:27 <Vorpal> That isn't even in there
20:02:50 <Vorpal> there is "refs/heads/master", but it is only the 870ith instance of that it fails on
20:03:50 <Vorpal> Maybe something is messed up with special characters... Looks like the file checked in just before is a test case with an embedded nul-byte + mixed line endings
20:05:37 <Vorpal> Aha, something went wrong when I patched the file to fix some other issues. Guess sed messes up stuff I didn't expect it to touch
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20:16:05 <fizzie> I was trying to use a Bitbucket hg repository via git-remote-hg, but it stopped working after Mercurial updated to 4.0.
20:16:12 <fizzie> Mixing version control systems is serious business.
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20:44:24 <Vorpal> fizzie: I'm not trying to mix. I'm trying to convert and figure out which one I prefer
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20:45:53 <Vorpal> fizzie: I know I like hg and the tortoisehg frontend, but it seems to me that using a popular version control system has advantages. So I'm trying to figure out if I can stand git and possibly find a good GUI for doing the stuff where a GUI is better (looking at history for example)
20:46:12 <Vorpal> GitKraken seems okay so far, except I can't check out a specific revision with it??
20:46:27 <Vorpal> fizzie: do you have any suggestions for git GUI?
20:47:07 <olsner> what were you doing with sed on the fast-import stream btw?
20:47:56 <Vorpal> olsner: fixing author name and email.
20:48:23 <olsner> isn't there some built-in support for mapping authors?
20:48:54 <Vorpal> olsner: there is for hg convert yes, but I didn't find anything for the bzr fast-export | git fast-import variant
20:49:14 <Vorpal> Maybe I just missed it. But I managed to find the cause of the issue and fix it
20:52:11 <Vorpal> olsner: any git GUI suggestions?
20:52:40 <olsner> what kind of gui? I use terminal for everything except git gui for staging and committing
20:54:10 <olsner> or often just for staging, with git commit for committing since git gui's message editor is less useful than the vim filetype
20:54:56 <Vorpal> olsner: mostly just stuff like merging and rebasing.
20:55:29 <Vorpal> I'm used to hg that has tortoisehg which is *really* good. It has pretty much all the functionality if you want it.
20:56:14 <int-e> there is a tortoisegit
20:56:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: I only know about the CLI tools, no idea about GUIs.
20:56:46 <Vorpal> thought it was just windows :/
20:57:09 <fizzie> My wife's ex-workplace was using something, but I forget exactly what. Does Atlassian make a Git GUI?
20:57:34 <fizzie> Apparently they've got something called SourceTree.
20:57:44 <fizzie> Mac and Windows only, maybe.
20:58:03 <int-e> hmm, wikipedia has a weird description for tortoisehg: "TortoiseHg is a GUI front-end for Mercurial that runs on Microsoft Windows, on which it integrates directly with File Explorer,[1] Mac OS X,[2] and Linux.[3]"
20:58:11 <olsner> SourceTree vaguely reminds me of something atlassian bought maybe?
20:58:24 <fizzie> I don't even know if it was that, I just remember it was by some folks I wouldn't first have associated with a git client for general use.
20:58:32 <int-e> anyway, I though tortoisehg was just Windows as well
20:59:03 <Vorpal> fizzie: sourcetree doesn't seem to exist for Linux though
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20:59:10 <fizzie> Vorpal: 20:57 <fizzie> Mac and Windows only, maybe.
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20:59:31 <fizzie> I think I've heard that GitHub Desktop is not actually GitHub-specific, but looks like that's also equally operating-system-deficient.
21:00:01 * int-e uses the CLI tools and gitk for browsing diffs
21:00:03 <Vorpal> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux, well that is a fairly short list
21:00:29 <int-e> (gitk is older than git gui and I was used to gitk when the latter came along... never switched)
21:00:44 <Vorpal> git: 'gui' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
21:01:15 <olsner> iirc gitk and git gui don't have any overlapping features
21:01:24 <int-e> probably an extra package
21:01:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: Some distributions split that off of the rest of Git.
21:01:36 <Vorpal> wow gitk... is that a tk based GUI?
21:01:44 <olsner> git gui is also Tk based
21:01:48 <fizzie> I've occasionally used gitg for browsing diffs and the history.
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21:01:58 <fizzie> It's pretty much just "gitk except GTK".
21:02:12 <fizzie> Haven't ever tried to make commits from it.
21:02:13 <int-e> Vorpal: 'git gui' will look for a /use/lib/git-core/git-grep (the -core part may be a debian thing, hmm)
21:02:30 <Vorpal> gitg, another one to check out
21:02:42 <fizzie> The only git GUI I've actually used a little (very little) is the native git integration of Android Studio (/IntelliJ).
21:03:35 <int-e> I think it's too late for me. the git-grep is supposed to be git-gui; I used `locate git-grep` to find the path :/
21:03:38 <Vorpal> gitkraken is really slow on this fairly old computer.
21:13:22 <Vorpal> smartgit seems okay in performance. Super-complicated GUI though. Like 10 different panels thrown in your face from the get go. 11 menus at the top. Two toolbars.
21:15:48 <Vorpal> Also apparently supports hg. Also it automatically scans $HOME for repositories.
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21:20:02 <Vorpal> well, I'll look more into this in the future
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21:59:25 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: You have successfully tested with the argument: hppavilion[1] is a modern Prometheus
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22:22:32 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: your bot's connection seems just as patchy as yours
22:23:24 <shachaf> are you using https://prometheus.io/ hth
22:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: A lot of it is me killing it myself, but also, yeah, I'm having a bit of internet trouble
22:23:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, it's locally hosted at the moment for development
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23:09:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Evil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51375&oldid=51372 * Serprex * (-12) tc
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23:34:33 <oerjan> <shapr> Does founder-ness need to be recovered on this channel? <-- is that even possible?
23:35:23 <shachaf> Yes, you can set the founder.
23:35:38 <oerjan> i mean, by freenode policy
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23:37:23 <shachaf> Who actually made this channel, anyway?
23:37:43 <oerjan> the founder used to be andreou.
23:38:08 <oerjan> whether he was the first, i don't know - i don't recall seeing him active.
23:41:32 <oerjan> fizzie would have been the obvious to take over if freenode hadn't changed its policy.
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23:48:00 <fizzie> My logs don't show who were on the channel when I joined, just that it was 6 other people, one of which was a bot.
23:49:59 <fizzie> Looking at later messages, seems to have been navigator, lament, dmc and exarkun. I can't tell who the last non-bot one was, or who came first.
23:52:00 <fizzie> (navigator == andreou.)
23:56:16 <fizzie> According to the mailing list archives, Andreou did set us up here on 9 Dec 2002.
23:56:28 <fizzie> (After a false start as #esoterica in EFnet.)
23:56:55 <fizzie> Also means the channel will turn 15 this year.
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00:01:04 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> This is the most delightful wikipedia redirect ever: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_one_with_the_whales&redirect=no <-- that was exactly what i expected :)
00:01:53 <oerjan> (admittedly i'm biased from reading a certain dmm comic)
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00:37:16 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
00:59:49 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I figured out the secret of the universe, and everything
01:02:06 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I actually, don't know, I just wanted to see if you were awake, but now that I think about it, it probably is related to isomorphism
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01:35:18 * Zarutian advards adu an holistic fractal self similiar view.
01:40:11 <adu> Zarutian: ok
01:42:42 <Zarutian> it is a bit like being inside an mirror box made out of fun house mirrors convoluted by something like Koch curve
01:50:49 <adu> or a Klein bottle
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03:43:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Dpleshkov]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51376 * Dpleshkov * (+80) Created page with "Hi! Welcome to my profile page. Here are my esolangs: * [Tick] * [MiniBitMove]"
03:44:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Dpleshkov]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51377&oldid=51376 * Dpleshkov * (+4)
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06:51:36 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
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07:43:21 <hppavilion[0]> Is it reasonable to make a compassing system with 3 cardinal directions?
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09:08:56 <Cale> hppavilion[1]: Which three directions?
09:09:31 <hppavilion[1]> Cale: Let's go with 60°, 120°, and 240° (based the NORMAL way, not the compass way)
09:09:36 <Cale> If you keep your compass steady at any direction other than N, S, E, W, you travel along a curve which isn't a great circle
09:10:11 <Cale> It's a loxodrome
09:10:28 <hppavilion[1]> New rule: Instead of "clockwise" and "counterclockwise", we have "countermathwise" and "mathwise"
09:10:49 <Cale> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhumb_line
09:18:28 <Jafet> also the curve that maps to a straight line on a mercator map
09:22:53 <shachaf> I thought there was an entry.
09:23:31 <Jafet> not to be confused with ale
09:24:32 <erkin> New rule: Instead of "clockwise" and "anticlockwise," we have "countermathswise" and "mathswise."
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10:23:34 <hppavilion[1]> When thumbs up is wrong, thumbs down is wrong, and not voting at all is wrong.
10:25:08 <erkin> When you press it, one person loses their thumb on each side.
10:28:09 <hppavilion[1]> erkin: As I put it: "A \"This video is exempt from the standard rating scale for the same reason banana cream pies are exempt from shark population surveys\" button, if you will."
10:28:36 * erkin wants a shark population survey
10:28:43 * erkin however does not like shark popular survey
10:28:49 <hppavilion[1]> Example use case btw: https://youtu.be/lQlIhraqL7o
10:31:32 <quintopia> u crazy? all lonely island songs call for a thumbs up.
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10:38:52 <int-e> not voting at all is always right
10:40:30 <int-e> (on websites. voting in elections is right but mostly futile.)
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10:44:07 <HackEgo> itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly
10:44:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: '´¨`'´: not found
10:45:03 <Jafet> (are there election systems where not voting can be preferred?)
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10:53:48 <boily> `relcome h0rsep0wer
10:53:49 <HackEgo> h0rsep0wer: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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10:56:19 <Jafet> apparently it's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_criterion
10:59:51 <Jafet> but not quite; that article only covers honest votes, not tactical ones
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11:12:10 <boily> quinthellopia! you're morning!
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11:13:49 <Robdgreat> Jafet: the only way to win is not to play?
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11:40:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kamish * New user account
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12:50:34 <int-e> HackEgo: are you compliant with CaC's new ToS?
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12:52:44 <oerjan> ahmed the dead cthulhuist?
13:00:17 <int-e> uhuh. "8.2 All fees are subject to change at CloudatCost' discretion."
13:03:57 <int-e> Okay, this is the killer. "9.18 Customers with a onetime payment service are subject to an annual maintenance fee of $9 which will be invoiced 12 months after using our service."
13:04:53 <Jafet> I guess their costs changed
13:06:25 <int-e> well the cost model they had was unsustainable. However, the way that they make this change is borderline fraudulent.
13:07:39 <int-e> I mean, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cac_tos.png
13:07:49 <int-e> no, there is no summary of changes anywhere.
13:12:49 <fizzie> int-e: Ooh, that's quite a thing.
13:17:33 <fizzie> I note their main website still proudly proclaims "$X/one time".
13:18:52 <fizzie> Not much chatter about that new fee, though I did manage to find a page in Chinese. Fortunately, Google Translate does an impeccable job on this.
13:19:00 <fizzie> "6666, fattened the open to kill the. The It is also drunk about $ 9 for the garbage machine"
13:19:12 <fizzie> "His home before there are so many 3.5 knife lifetime VPS to sell electricity to pay it"
13:19:18 <fizzie> "Convinced, but not into the spicy chicken"
13:19:27 <int-e> 8470 words of new ToS... how many people, do you think, actually read that?
13:20:08 <oerjan> that is indeed impeccable.
13:20:25 <fizzie> Think I'll go get some spicy chicken.
13:21:27 <int-e> they also say they'll shut down your server if it uses 100% CPU for continuously 30 minutes (one of three criteria, the other two are based on packets per second and iops)
13:23:23 <oerjan> <fizzie> I note their main website still proudly proclaims "$X/one time". <-- you'd think that would be fraudulent, at least.
13:27:57 <int-e> cute. "19.10 This Agreement has been drawn up in the English language at the express request of the parties."
13:28:46 <int-e> And how is that even legally possible: 20.1 The terms of this Agreement, including fees, charges, features, content or any other aspects of a Service, may change at any time and without prior notice. The Customer is responsible for frequently reviewing this Agreement posted on CloudatCost' web site to obtain timely notice of any such changes.
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13:35:51 <Jafet> its legality doesn't really matter
13:36:14 <Jafet> anyone who doesn't like the charges is just going to do a chargeback and cancel the service
13:36:36 <Jafet> as for the features and content, every site reserves the right to change them anyway
13:37:02 <int-e> I mean the change of terms without notification part
13:37:06 <int-e> I don't care about the rest.
13:37:20 <Jafet> I think I've dealt with a bank that had such terms
13:37:49 <int-e> And I think that's illegal in Europe, but of course they are Canadian...
13:38:17 <int-e> And obviously I'm not going to litigate over this so it doesn't really matter whether it's legal or not.
13:41:34 <int-e> But really, they should be required to send out an email for changes to their ToS, with a human readable diff. It's not like that would cause them significant extra work...
13:42:55 <Jafet> well, some people might not notice $9 on their financial statements
13:43:04 <Jafet> by some people, I meant most people
13:44:10 <Jafet> also, they are probably not concerned about european law, seeing as their front page seems to say nothing about cookies
13:45:30 <Jafet> ok, I tried brute-forcing small instant-runoff, borda and copeland elections and none of them has an election where you can only influence the result by not voting
13:46:28 <Jafet> (copeland elections always give condorcet winners, so presumably this applies to all condorcet systems)
13:47:10 <Jafet> (influence the result: change who wins, but not produce ties)
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14:14:11 <Taneb> Did you know that jumping into a dropped stack frame is not a thing that works
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14:16:11 <Jafet> I've been told that large stack frames should always be carried by two people
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14:18:29 <_11> frame that above your bed, Taneb
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15:08:13 <\oren\> In today's XKCD we learn that randall is a heretic who likes stawberry better than cherry
15:08:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Itflabtijtslwi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51378&oldid=42447 * Oerjan * (+500) /* External resources */ Hacked up an online interpreter
15:18:37 <oerjan> itym "yesterday's" hth
15:18:59 <oerjan> also he likes lemon better than popcorn, yuck
15:26:28 <oerjan> hm our spam filter caught someone writing only in russian (except for the language name) but clearly esolanging
15:26:36 <Cale> Maybe he's thinking of jellybeans
15:26:50 <Cale> But it doesn't say jellybeans
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17:53:23 <rdococ> I'm working on a new language which should be called "3-cell Brainfuck" but for some reason isn't.
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17:55:11 <rdococ> It has three variables, but you can only loop in one of them. Of course, it's probably not too hard to swap variables.
17:55:37 <shapr> Sounds a bit like TIS-100
17:55:56 <shachaf> I should continue jamming that jam.
17:56:16 <shapr> I very much enjoy TIS-100
17:56:32 <shapr> and if anyone wants to add me on steam, I'm shaeerisson or shapr, I can never tell which one will work.
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18:22:15 <rdococ> I'm trying to find BF code for multiplication of two numbers that only uses 3 cells... is such a thing possible?
18:43:22 <\oren\> rdococ: non-destructive?
18:45:50 <\oren\> I think you need at least 4
18:46:14 <\oren\> even destructive I think you still need 4
18:50:00 <\oren\> first attempt: C[-]D[-][[C+D+B-][B+C-]A-] should give D = A * B
18:51:57 <\oren\> the main problem is that you can't add a cell to another cell and keep the original cell
18:52:34 <\oren\> oh wait. lookup table in code could be used
18:52:53 <\oren\> (assuming non-bignum cells)
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19:19:49 <rdococ> "Ørjan Johansen has made a conversion from iterated Collatz functions to 3-cell brainfuck (see that page for details)."
19:33:03 <\oren\> collatz functions are multiplying and dividing by numbers known ahead of time
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21:03:16 <Zarutian> hmm... I am in want of an word salat detector
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22:03:51 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe it's the plural of "Agendum", which is nothing now?
22:08:09 <hppavilion[1]> I should learn latin so I understand what's going on with etymology.
22:11:00 <pikhq> Which is a little like converting to Zen Buddhism so you can learn Sanskrit.
22:24:43 <Zarutian> I thought you had to become a Hindu?
22:25:21 <pikhq> Buddhism also has substantial texts in Sanskrit, and several Sanskrit texts only exist in Zen Buddhist transcriptions over in Tibet or China.
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22:58:09 <HackEgo> steam sale//A steam sale is when money is heated to such high temperatures it evaporates and then condenses into games you will never play.
22:58:34 <fizzie> PCFGs are a thing, at least.
22:58:56 <pikhq> ITYM エイチ・パヴィリオン［一］
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23:27:12 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: You have insufficient permission for this action (requires permission: `item.give`).
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23:36:38 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: Unrecognized command
23:36:48 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: You have insufficient permission for this action (requires permission: `item.give`).
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23:46:19 <HackEgo> pizza//Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb.
23:46:33 <boily> Chicago style best style.
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23:49:10 <hppavilion[1]> It's now in this channel. Only one command can be used by anybody, though (~/bot.test <arg>)
23:49:33 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: You have successfully tested with the argument: walrus
23:49:43 <boily> ~/ bot.test fungot
23:49:44 <fungot> boily: but you have to use java, and python over anything else for some reason.
23:49:44 <AdvBot> boily: You have successfully tested with the argument: fungot
23:49:44 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: You have successfully tested with the argument: pizze is the plural of pizza
23:49:44 <fungot> AdvBot: but if you write
23:50:05 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Hehe, boobies
23:50:18 <boily> not quite botloppy, but it's a start!
23:50:30 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Oh yeah, I'll have to add anti-botlop, won't I?
23:50:33 * boily merrily thwacks hppavilion[1]
23:50:49 <boily> nah, botlops are life.
23:51:34 <hppavilion[1]> (I don't think there's any way for it to botlop yet, because it can never start a message with arbitrary characters. In fact, it always targets whoever triggered it, but it can't be triggered by its own nick)
23:52:01 <hppavilion[1]> (...actually, it should trigger on its own nick. I distinctly remember putting that in the code. Something's not right.)
23:52:22 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: Unrecognized command
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23:58:13 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: Unrecognized command
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23:59:27 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Error: You have insufficient permission for this action (requires permission: `inv.read`).
23:59:35 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: Successfully granted hppavilion[1] the `inv.read` permission
23:59:38 <AdvBot> hppavilion[1]: boily's inventory contains:
00:00:15 <hppavilion[1]> [reload wasn't reset to be clear, that just reloads the commands module so that I don't have to restart the bot as constantly
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00:31:11 * Zarutian cranks the volume way up on oerjans headphones and does: dong!
00:35:25 <oerjan> @tell rdococ 3-cell brainfuck is _very_ restrictive in what kind of calculations it can do - to prove it TC, you essentially have to encode your _real_ data as gödel numbers. for example, i know how to read in a string and convert it into a gödel number, but i have no idea how to print one back out cleanly, even at the end of a program.
00:36:24 <boily> fungot: does oerjan have any resonant frequencies?
00:36:24 <fungot> boily: ( not to mention the program supposed to know
00:36:29 <oerjan> @tell (i can print it out with a lot of junk intermingled, though.)
00:36:53 <oerjan> @tell rdococ (i can print it out with a lot of junk intermingled, though.)
00:37:15 <oerjan> someone should really add some nick syntax checking to @tell.
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00:38:42 <oerjan> <boily> fungot: does oerjan have any resonant frequencies? <-- i can feel one frome the fridge right now.
00:38:43 <fungot> oerjan: does anyone use the plt setup tool, a helper. if it's not as clean as one would hope.
00:41:02 <boily> alercah: we introduced the Marvelous World of Tile Shuffling to yet another coworker yesterday night ^^
00:46:21 <boily> oerjan: wait. you resonate with your fridge???
00:47:36 <oerjan> at least my stomach does. yuck.
00:48:00 <boily> you should cook something.
00:49:30 <Zarutian> oerjan: hmm... single phase AC 50Hz compressor mose likely. Have you consider moving it like 1 cm around or so to prevent the resonance?
00:50:54 <oerjan> i resonate with a lot of things, i'm hypersensitive to vibration.
00:52:34 <Zarutian> The Creators own tuning fork, that you?
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00:57:03 <HackEgo> `sled//`sled <filename>//<sed script>
00:57:18 <HackEgo> prography//Prography is the art of turning computational algorithms into something totally incomprehensible to anyone whose brain isn't made of silicon and arsenic.
00:57:39 <HackEgo> `slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
01:06:44 <HackEgo> gentlebeing//A gentlebeing is a gender and species neutral gentleman.
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01:36:18 <oerjan> `le/rn word salad detector//Our word salad detector only uses the finest brains with a smattering of red arrow shark-repellant housewives made out of impertinent codeine fragments in a light sauce of mediterranean guadalope under a bright full speed ahead recommended by fungot.
01:36:18 <fungot> oerjan: but then again, those board look pretty small. i guess
01:36:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'word salad detector': Our word salad detector only uses the finest brains with a smattering of red arrow shark-repellant housewives made out of impertinent codeine fragments in a light sauce of mediterranean guadalope under a bright full speed ahead recommended by fungot.
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02:17:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51379&oldid=50777 * Challenger5 * (+139)
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02:36:06 <Jafet> `le/rn word salad detector//Our salad detectors include the fact that we have to reveal the excerpt of the codeine, which does not make sense for the light of the guadalupe mediterranean sauce. Please use the bright heart of the housewife the red shark rejects the brightest maximum speed recommended by the ducks.
02:36:08 <HackEgo> Relearned 'word salad detector': Our salad detectors include the fact that we have to reveal the excerpt of the codeine, which does not make sense for the light of the guadalupe mediterranean sauce. Please use the bright heart of the housewife the red shark rejects the brightest maximum speed recommended by the ducks.
02:37:17 <Jafet> (unfortunately, google translate is much more grammatical than it used to be)
02:38:21 <alercah> Jafet: try one of the languages that don't use AI
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02:42:46 <Challenger5> Can someone explain to me how /// is Turing complete? Because I really don't understand it.
02:45:29 <Jafet> apparently mongolian hasn't been Deeply Learned yet
02:48:32 <Jafet> `le/rn word salad detector//Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering.
02:48:33 <fungot> Jafet: that's crossed my mind before. how do we fix it :) but it seems to be a church but hasn't been bothered to implement it somewhat fast in software ( it's speed is fnord now...
02:48:34 <HackEgo> Relearned 'word salad detector': Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering.
02:48:40 <alercah> Challenger5: see the Bitwise Cyclic Tag interpreter
02:49:03 <alercah> it implements BCT, which is known to be turing-complete by reduction to general cyclic tag systems
02:50:36 <Jafet> well, the bct reduction doesn't really help to understand it
02:53:35 <Jafet> shouldn't there be an easier reduction from thue, or something?
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02:56:18 <Challenger5> I made a step-by-step debugger to try to help me understand ///, but it didn't work.
02:56:38 <Challenger5> Also, I still don't understand how tag systems are Turing complete.
02:56:41 <Jafet> `slwd word salad detector//sS.$S and yes I said yes I will Yes.S
02:56:43 <HackEgo> word salad detector//Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering and yes I said yes I will Yes.
02:57:03 <Challenger5> I suppose you might be able to do some type of conversion to a Minsky machine...
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03:06:06 <oerjan> people who want my explanations should bloody well stay.
03:06:31 * oerjan isn't entirely sure on the spot why tag systems are TC, either.
03:06:50 <oerjan> although /// is powerful enough that you don't _have_ to go via them.
03:07:35 <oerjan> hm did Nthern make some other interpreter in it?
03:09:10 <oerjan> hm translator for thue, with plans for others.
03:11:11 <Jafet> of course, it's not entirely obvious that thue is tc either
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03:23:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51380&oldid=51099 * Oerjan * (+104) /* Implementation */ Link my debugger version.
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11:02:25 <HackEgo> extreme ironing//Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
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11:03:31 <Taneb> Is extreme ironing more or less esoteric than submarine jousting
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11:16:03 <boily> Tanelle. less, because it can be explained.
11:17:47 <Taneb> `? submarine jousting
11:17:48 <HackEgo> Submarine jousting is unexplainable.
11:19:18 <int-e> `cwlprits submarine jousting
11:20:31 <Taneb> (I do in fact have a fairly clear idea of what submarine jousting is in my mind, fwiw)
11:20:48 <boily> `grwp submarine jousting
11:21:16 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything i
11:21:23 <HackEgo> 1/2:20) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! \ 277) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! \ 538) <Phantom_Hoover> OMG <Phantom_Hoover> What if <Phantom_Hoover> we shoot Hitler w
11:21:40 <boily> what was the command again to get the history?
11:22:05 <boily> Taneb: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/171131/captain-sonar
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16:05:38 <HackEgo> hilter:HILTER is what happens when someone combines argumentum ad hitlerum, shouting, and muphry's law in one glorious clusterfuck. \ Binary file reflection matches
16:22:57 <oerjan> \oren\: it's illiterally hitler!
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17:22:59 <shapr> tromp: I'm certain I've seen a base prime webpage somewhere, using a zeckendorf representation to make it all work out. Would you happen to know about that?
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18:33:25 <HackEgo> fizzie:fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg \ hacker:Jim Hacker is a former British prime minister. \ Binary file reflection matches
18:33:46 <HackEgo> : would be the set of rational numbers, if the Unicode Consortium weren't idiots who put it as ℚ. \ algebraic number theory:The theory of algebraic numbers was invented by Fermat to prove his theorem, but he didn't have room to write it down. \ bezout's theorem:Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the co
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19:27:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rules: not found
19:27:17 <HackEgo> cat: rules: No such file or directory
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19:49:18 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
19:55:55 <HackEgo> 1:4/And fungot pinged the sockets, and saw that they responded before they timed out, and e saw that it was good: and fungot divided the cloud from the hard drive.
19:57:07 <Zarutian> „divided the cloud from the hard drive.“ <- recent USA WEST S3 outage anyone?
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20:03:53 <HackEgo> Boron (B) is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
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20:07:07 <HackEgo> gen_sys_1.0-1:2/And #esoteric was without denizens, and empty; and the order was on the face of the PDP-8. And the software of fungot moved upon the face of the scrollback.
20:07:19 <HackEgo> gen_sys_1.0-1:2/And #esoteric was without denizens, and empty; and the order was on the face of the PDP-8. And the software of fungot moved upon the face of the scrollback.
20:07:23 <HackEgo> gen_sys_1.0-1:5/And fungot called the cloud internet, and the hard drive *nix. And the DNS and the server were upon the first day.
20:07:37 <HackEgo> cat: esobible/gen_sys_1.0-1:2.5: No such file or directory
20:08:20 <HackEgo> And fungot checked if the build environment was sane, and saw that there was no build environment in the first place, and deemed that to be close enough.
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20:10:00 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I think I should move all the files to be based at 0
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21:27:55 <hppavilion[1]> Nothing beats the feeling of going to a site with a video that you want to download
21:28:09 <hppavilion[1]> Where the video is protected from download (usually by some FlashPlayer thing)
21:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> And downloading the code, decompiling, and finding where the video lives in downloadable mp4 form.
21:43:32 <zzo38> Or if you have some kind of Flash implementation that will have the download option included
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22:15:32 <\oren\> gah, why do I have to shush in as root to do this
22:17:54 <\oren\> "shush in as root, then su back to your own username"
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22:33:24 <hppavilion[0]> Hm, CC-BY-ND licenses have a bit of an issue to them as far as I can tell
22:33:38 <hppavilion[0]> If you duplicate and rehost a webpage licensed under that, you're required to cite the source
22:34:08 <hppavilion[0]> But citing the source requires either putting the citation in a parent page (which means people might not see it if they're linked straight to your mirror, which could be a legal issue)
22:34:32 <hppavilion[0]> Or embed the citation in the rehosted page, but that would count as a derivative in the strictest sense.
22:35:10 <Zarutian> hppavilion[0]: ya mean it is a basically an nomic trap?
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22:37:29 <Zarutian> You could always go "The Non Derative clause is hereby and only here violated to give the required citation: <link to original>"
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22:38:11 <claim> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
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00:10:54 <zzo38> It depend on what kinds of games it can be and so on I think, and even then I think I do not quite have the favourites
00:13:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:HI9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51381 * Quintopia * (+249) /* Quines in HI9+ */ new section
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00:13:58 <quintopia> is there no game you spend more time with than others?
00:14:41 <zzo38> I think there isn't a game I spend much more time with than others, and I do not keep track of such thing much
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00:17:44 <HackEgo> The number of the hour is 14.
00:18:00 <HackEgo> : would be the set of rational numbers, if the Unicode Consortium weren't idiots who put it as ℚ. \ algebraic number theory:The theory of algebraic numbers was invented by Fermat to prove his theorem, but he didn't have room to write it down. \ bezout's theorem:Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the co
00:18:34 <oerjan> `` icode "`grwp number | head -1`"
00:18:41 <HackEgo> U+1D548 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 88 UTF-16BE: d835dd48 Decimal: 𝕈 \ () \ Uppercase: U+1D548 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \ \ U+003A COLON \ UTF-8: 3a UTF-16BE: 003a Decimal: : \ : \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: CS (Common Number Separator) \ \ U+1D548 - No such
00:27:59 <oerjan> the strange character at the start of `grwp number
00:28:31 <oerjan> i suspect whoever added that was just complaining that ℚ had the wrong codepoint.
00:29:00 <HackEgo> [U+211A DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL Q]
00:30:16 <HackEgo> U+1D549 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 89 UTF-16BE: d835dd49 Decimal: 𝕉 \ () \ Uppercase: U+1D549 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
00:30:31 <HackEgo> U+1D54A MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL S \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 8a UTF-16BE: d835dd4a Decimal: 𝕊 \ 𝕊 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <font> 0053
00:31:11 <HackEgo> U+1D54B MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL T \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 8b UTF-16BE: d835dd4b Decimal: 𝕋 \ 𝕋 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <font> 0054
00:31:26 <oerjan> i wonder if that wisdom was off by 1.
00:31:54 <oerjan> as in, U+1D549 would seem to be where R would fit, not U+1D548.
00:32:38 <oerjan> well, the same complaint goes for R as well.
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00:57:08 <quintopia> i'm the consortium had good reason
00:58:32 <quintopia> well, reasons that aren't that good maybe
01:02:23 <HackEgo> U+25FB WHITE MEDIUM SQUARE \ UTF-8: e2 97 bb UTF-16BE: 25fb Decimal: ◻ \ ◻ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
01:02:27 <Jafet> `multicode U+1F78F
01:02:28 <HackEgo> U+1F78F MEDIUM WHITE SQUARE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9e 8f UTF-16BE: d83ddf8f Decimal: 🞏 \ 🞏 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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04:38:29 <hppavilion[1]> NEW WORD: When referring to the equivalent of Google-Fu for a DuckDuckGo user, it may be referred to as "Duckwongo"
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05:27:36 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if putting X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* will poison peoples' logs
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06:17:52 <Jafet> I'm surprised that the eicar test file appears only twice in my logs
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10:34:00 <int-e> Good-bye CaC. We had a great time together, but it just won't work out.
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10:39:23 <int-e> see also CaaC: http://www.cloudatacost.com/
10:40:59 <int-e> basically CaC has just redefined "one-time payment" to include an extra annual $9 fee.
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10:41:54 <int-e> Which would be reasonable really... but rather than telling the customers that there's a new fee, they buried the fact at 1/3 of 8k terms of service.
10:44:59 <int-e> Gregor might want to know that? It's point 9.18 of their ToS, it may or may not apply, depends on whether you have a monthly paid product.
10:45:34 <Vorpal> int-e: I have had great experience with linode. Way more expensive than 9 per year of course
10:45:49 <Vorpal> but the support has been good the one time I needed it.
10:46:18 <int-e> Vorpal: I'm currently with Ramnode... no bad experiences there either though I haven't really needed support.
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10:46:26 <Vorpal> And while not needing support at all would have been better, it is good to know that if you need it, they are happy to help within a couple of hours.
10:46:55 <Vorpal> int-e: yeah I had a strange issue with the kvm host, they quickly migrated my VPS to another node
10:47:48 <FireFly> I've been happy with prgmr, the biggest issue of which seems to be that their data centre is in the US and not Europe
10:48:24 <Vorpal> FireFly: which is the reason I went with linode. Way less lag when using ssh to london than to us
10:49:06 <FireFly> with mosh I don't really mind IRCing on a VPS in the US
10:49:27 <Vorpal> FireFly: I love prgmr's web site though
10:50:03 <Vorpal> I don't like mosh because I never been a fan of screen or tmux and mosh destroys the normal scrollback of the terminal
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10:51:02 <Vorpal> Also while mosh helps on a bad connection, it isn't perfect sadly. Especially in ncurses programs
10:51:05 <int-e> (okay, one ticket, because I had a screen session completely disappear without trace and I asked them whether they had any logs... they replied promptly, though (unsurprisingly they didn't have any information). They did tell me that they didn't migrate the VPS which was more information than I expected.)
10:51:38 <int-e> (no segfault, no OOM kill... just strange)
10:51:42 <Vorpal> int-e: wouldn't they tell you in advance if they migrated?
10:52:01 <int-e> that's what they told me :P
10:52:04 <Vorpal> With linode I always got advance warning for any outage (critical host security upgrades and so on)
10:52:21 <int-e> "We don't do migrations without notice"
10:52:44 <Vorpal> int-e: I would say that any hosting company that did migrations without notice would be a bad one
10:54:27 <int-e> Basically I'm a bit clueless about how transparent that can be made these days. If one could migrate a VPS while preserving network connections with handover in less than, say, 10 seconds, that's something people might do without notice.
10:54:56 <fizzie> Since we're all listing these, I've gone through prgmr, Tilaa and DigitalOcean.
10:55:07 <int-e> If it disrupts network connections it's a no-go for any hoster worth its salt.
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10:56:07 <Vorpal> int-e: I don't think that is doable in general given how most VPS are set up. You would need to use network-backed disk images. iSCSI or something like that. Which from what I heard from someone who works in the business, is not worth the overhead. It is much cheaper to have local disk images on RAID with backups
10:56:39 <Vorpal> Then migration needs to shut down the VM, copy the images across and start the VM on the new host
10:56:47 <Vorpal> network is probably the easy part
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11:02:39 <shachaf> I use Linode but I keep hearing it's terrible.
11:02:45 <shachaf> With regard to security and other things?
11:03:11 <shachaf> Maybe I should switch to Google Cloud now that their free trial expires in 12 months rather than 60 days.
11:04:00 <shachaf> I'd still need to figure out a way to use it that wouldn't be a squander.
11:04:01 <fizzie> Google Cloud here in Europe is only for "commercial" use.
11:04:15 <shachaf> I think we've talked about that.
11:04:19 <int-e> fizzie: an english speaking source picked up on the new fee... https://blog.matthewkilpatrick.uk/cloudatcost-review/ ... hmm.
11:05:07 <int-e> ("hmm" is me wondering whether there's any connection to #esoteric or whether somebody else actually read the ToS ;-) )
11:05:39 <shachaf> I pay $20/month for my Linode VM.
11:05:41 <fizzie> shachaf: One scow thing is that Google Domains in UK has the same restriction.
11:06:01 <shachaf> I recommend moving to sunny Mountain View, California.
11:07:17 <fizzie> I don't want to get shot, and I understand that's what happens to everyone in the US.
11:07:21 <shachaf> When I worked at Google I got a free (I think?) domain through Google Domains.
11:07:34 <shachaf> Now I don't work there anymore but I still use it for that one domain.
11:08:06 <fizzie> I migrated my two .org's to Hover, but they don't do .fi.
11:08:22 <shachaf> I use Gandi for .fi and another domain.
11:08:25 <fizzie> https://help.hover.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/210362567-Support-for-fi-domains plz upvote
11:09:11 <shachaf> I'm not going to make a Hover account just to click on an arrow.
11:09:32 <shachaf> Well, I guess I can click the arrow even without an account, it just redirects me to a login page.
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11:09:56 <fizzie> Thank you, I appreciate the effort.
11:10:12 <shachaf> What does it mean that .fi switched to a registrar model?
11:10:29 <shachaf> I remember that there were changes but not the details. Except that registration would be open to everyone or something like that.
11:10:41 <shachaf> But I already had a domain registered through Gandi before.
11:10:53 <fizzie> It used to be so that you bought your domain directly from the registry.
11:10:55 <shachaf> They sent me a letter about it all the way to the US. But the letter was in Finnish.
11:11:10 <fizzie> Which in this case was the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority.
11:12:07 <fizzie> The model they switched to is the more standard one where an end user never deals directly with the registry, but instead goes through a registrar.
11:12:32 <shachaf> But I already used a registrar once.
11:12:40 <shachaf> I guess it was an exceptional case or something?
11:13:00 <int-e> . o O ( There's an arrow?! )
11:13:05 <fizzie> I don't think they were technically registrars, they were just unrelated companies that bought and managed a domain for you.
11:13:18 <shachaf> int-e: Wherever voting happens, there's always an Arrow.
11:13:51 <int-e> shachaf: Right, I actually know about that theorem :)
11:14:05 <int-e> shachaf: it doesn't apply to pure binary choices though
11:14:14 <shachaf> I see. Well, nice of them to do it in exchange for $20 or however much I paid them.
11:14:29 <shachaf> int-e: I was wondering whether someone would nitpick my pun.
11:14:57 <shachaf> If you want: Voting on feature requests is a question of prioritizing the next request.
11:15:03 <int-e> but what I meant is this, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/novelicons.png
11:15:08 <shachaf> Each person can vote each feature up or down.
11:15:37 <int-e> (noscript is blocking the font. but why must it be a font...)
11:15:39 <fizzie> The old model also had some eligibility requirements that were deprecated, so it is also more open to everyone now.
11:16:10 <shachaf> It's a font with private use code points? How odd.
11:16:24 <shachaf> fizzie: Yes, that part is unfortunate.
11:16:24 <int-e> it has become fairly common
11:16:39 <shachaf> At least I got a two-character .fi domain.
11:17:01 <shachaf> Unfortunately it's difficult to pronounce.
11:17:17 <shachaf> It sounds like I'm talking about a county in England.
11:17:21 <fizzie> I was this close |-| to getting zzie.fi instead of zem.fi.
11:17:49 <FireFly> What's the etymology of zem.fi anyway?
11:20:13 <int-e> oh, github switched to inline SVGs instead, sweet.
11:20:18 <fizzie> "No one really knows what mattresses are meant to gain from their lives either. They are large, friendly, pocket-sprung creatures which live quiet private lives in the marshes of Squornshellous Zeta. Many of them get caught, slaughtered, dried out, shipped out and slept on. None of them seem to mind and all of them are called Zem."
11:21:44 <fizzie> I had a Douglas Adams hostname naming scheme at the time.
11:22:13 <fizzie> (Though a big part was to find a free three-letter name.)
11:22:49 <rdococ> yay. time to make up another crappy language thing.
11:23:45 <Robdgreat> hm. many years on the internet and I'm just now getting around to looking at semper.fi
11:24:07 <Robdgreat> interestingly, it has nothing to do with the US Marine Corp
11:27:51 <shachaf> fizzie: So many good .fi names were created 12.9.2016 :'(
11:28:17 <shachaf> I should've taken the opportunity to preëmpt them.
11:28:58 <shachaf> Maybe the whois "created" date isn't accurate, anyway.
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11:34:07 <int-e> always fun to setup a new VM... I never recall how to get rid of systemd.
11:36:05 <shachaf> systemdum and systemd / agreed to have a battle
11:36:35 <int-e> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
11:37:06 <int-e> Dodgson is probably spinning in his grave.
11:37:43 <shachaf> Well, the poem is much older than that.
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12:00:11 <Taneb> I do want to try and set up a Linux distro with no GNU Software components. Possibly I should try to make it not have systemd either
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12:29:12 <HackEgo> sanity//Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it.
12:30:46 <int-e> (does that mean that Taneb didn't have it when they invented it...)
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12:34:27 <rdococ> where's my defining characteristic then?
12:34:32 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Sat Mar 18 13:34:27 2017
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12:34:46 <lambdabot> I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time?
12:34:55 <int-e> good, good, just checking.
12:40:53 <boily> int-ello, rdochelloc, lambdabellot, Tanelle.
12:41:06 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
12:41:27 <boily> rdococ: ↑ your characteristic.
12:42:38 <rdococ> that's not my defining characteristic. that's my alleged place of residence and note that I am approaching permanent boredom.
12:55:22 <boily> yup, it's very defining ^^
12:56:10 <boily> you're apparently, but not seemingly. possibly, but probably not. extremely precise!
12:56:34 <boily> the only remaining detail is if you're approaching boredom from the left or the right.
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12:58:34 <rdococ> approaching infinite boredom
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14:09:22 <Robdgreat> I'm like the UN: my sanctions don't mean anything
14:25:50 <int-e> Thanks to rdococ I found out about the NO_ACT ignore level in irssi. It's perfect!
14:28:54 <Vorpal> Hm, I'm trying to like (or at least get accustomed to) git, but I can't help thinking that for the most part I prefer hg.
14:29:33 <int-e> For me it's the same, except with "git" and "hg" swapped.
14:30:48 <int-e> (Though I would have objective reasons in favor of hg. It's easier to *teach*, for example, because the separate staging area in git tends to confuse people.)
14:31:18 <Phantom_Hoover> the staging thing in git is just, like, you have to tell it which files you're going to commit, right?
14:31:41 <Vorpal> int-e: the main point I think for me is that for many VCS tasks I prefer a gui, and TortoiseHg for Linux is exceptionally excellent. The Git GUIs for Linux I have tried so far aren't nearly as good. Or have much less functionality. Or are fully featured but uses 500 MB RAM because of java.
14:31:51 <Phantom_Hoover> it's definitely one of those things which just causes friction when you're getting started, because you have no feel for why you'd want it
14:32:10 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: the thing that confuses people is that there are two uncommitted diffs, so to speak: git diff --cached (changes to be committed) and git diff (further changes).
14:32:54 <int-e> in particular git diff may produce unexpected output ("I had changes, where did they go?")
14:33:13 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: indeed, git UI is the main sticking point, or GUI in my case. If there was a good GUI to hide the UI I would be fine with it,
14:33:36 <int-e> but then I like the in-repo branches and mercurial just doesn't work nicely that way...
14:34:01 <Vorpal> int-e: it does have named branches, a bit more heavyweight than how git treats that concept
14:34:35 <Vorpal> in git, isn't a branch basically just a movable label?
14:35:09 <Vorpal> while in hg it is an attribute of a commit that is by default (unless you create a new branch) inherited to child commits.
14:36:29 <Vorpal> int-e: there is a bookmark extension that works more like git branches I think
14:36:38 <int-e> The most fundamental UI mistake in hg I've uncovered so far is the revision identified by "tip", which should have a name like "the-revision-that-somehow-currently-is-at-the-top-of-the-stored-file-history-unrelated-to-whatever-you-have-checked-out-and-are-working-on" or something to that effect.
14:37:07 <Vorpal> yes agreed, that tip doesn't mean much
14:37:18 <int-e> I had initially mapped "tip" to git's "HEAD", and that caused *a lot* of issues.
14:37:43 <Vorpal> int-e: for me, using tortoisehg for most of the stuff I do with hg, it is just a label in the GUI I don't really care about. I think you can hide it even.
14:37:44 <int-e> (git's HEAD is "revision currently checked out")
14:38:02 <int-e> well I'm addicted to command lines *shrugs*
14:38:20 <Vorpal> I usually am too. Not for version control for some reason though
14:38:46 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean version histories are a pretty textbook example of "something better presented graphically"
14:39:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: which is why I have a hard time getting to like git I think. None of the GUIs are great. They all have one fatal flaw or another so far.
14:39:32 <int-e> I use a gui for browsing history. But not for creating commits...
14:41:02 <Phantom_Hoover> it's the classic thing where command lines work great for input but are lousy at output
14:41:05 <Vorpal> int-e: you get something like a staging area if you want in tortoisehg even, a list of files with checkboxes (or even diff chunks with the right hg extension loaded) that are to be included in the commit. It remembers what you checked too (until you close that repository).
14:41:33 <Phantom_Hoover> and guis can display information really effectively but can be clumsy and bloated when you try to manipulate it
14:41:44 <Vorpal> int-e: by default everything is checked, but I saw a setting somewhere for setting an expression for "auto uncheck". Presumably you could set that to "*" if you want or such
14:44:05 <int-e> there's a "hg record" extension (stolen from darcs) which, like git commit --interactive, is based on darcs' "record" command... so doing partial commits is quite possible in all these tools
14:44:21 <int-e> hmm, redundancy, how I love thee, how I love thee.
14:45:47 <Vorpal> int-e: yeah enabling the record extension lets you select specific file chunks in tortoisehg if you want
14:46:36 <Vorpal> int-e: also I love the MQ extension, patch queues. It is very well integrated into tortoisehg, letting you split and fold patches very easily. Reorder your commits prior to pushing.
14:47:09 <int-e> I use branches and git rebase -i for that in git
14:47:46 <Vorpal> yeah that would likely work too, as long as you remember what you want to push and what you don't want to push.
14:48:23 <int-e> both are powerful enough and they are very similar, but just different enough to trip anybody who tries to use on of them like the other. Switching between them is really painful.
14:49:42 <Vorpal> I use hg at work, so there is going to be that for the forseeable future. I just wonder to which version control system I should migrate my old bzr projects
14:49:55 <int-e> (and they have clashing vocabulary... like "pull" vs. "fetch" or "pull -u")
14:55:01 <Vorpal> int-e: git doesn't check out sub-repos by default it appears
14:55:06 <Vorpal> that annoys me compared to hg
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15:10:41 <Vorpal> in fact it seems by default git doesn't treat sub modules as they exist when doing operations on the main repository, letting you do stupid stuff by mistake.
15:15:56 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
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15:16:48 <oerjan> `le/rn insanity//You are just imagining this wisdom entity.
15:16:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'insanity': You are just imagining this wisdom entity.
15:17:07 <HackEgo> dark water:Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination. \ hackego:HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. Ha
15:17:18 <HackEgo> 2/5:sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! \ hallucination:You are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ imaginary unit:The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love \ insanity:You are just imagining this wisdom entity. \ Binary file reflection matches \ soviet russia:Soviet Russia used to be a syno
15:17:27 <HackEgo> 3/5:nym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination. \ zarutian:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more a
15:17:43 <HackEgo> 5/5:Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own.
15:18:23 <oerjan> Zarutian's verbosity is no match for my intelligence
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15:20:18 <HackEgo> imagine:Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs. \ Binary file reflection matches
15:22:19 <oerjan> `slwd insanity//s/Y/Unless you are boily, y/
15:22:21 <HackEgo> insanity//Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entity.
15:23:38 <Vorpal> oerjan: what does grwp stand for?
15:25:26 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
15:26:18 <Taneb> I've been working on a Euclidean Geometry renderer
15:26:34 <Taneb> But I think it has a few flaws
15:26:46 <Taneb> It can't work out where two circles intersect
15:27:32 <oerjan> you need algebraic numbers
15:27:53 <Taneb> I think I can make do with constructible numbers
15:28:12 <Taneb> But I don't know how to implement either in C :(
15:28:22 <oerjan> which is just the subset reachable with square roots.
15:28:23 <Vorpal> Taneb: can't you just approximate it with floats?
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15:28:45 <int-e> Taneb: so use a different programming language ;)
15:29:26 <Taneb> Vorpal, currently I am approximating it with longs
15:29:27 <int-e> (smiley because I rather suspect that this isn't the real problem... though C is bound to make this stuff quite verbose)
15:29:40 <Taneb> int-e, ah, but you see, my long term goal is to enter the IOCCC
15:29:59 <int-e> Taneb: well, at least prototype in a different programming language
15:30:28 <int-e> in order to avoid bridging too many levels of abstraction at once
15:32:40 <oerjan> if the circles have radii r, R and distance D, then you get some pythagoras r^2 = h^2 + x^2; R^2 = h^2 + X^2, x+X = D
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15:34:11 <oerjan> with the intersections being h away on the normal between them at distance x and X from either.
15:34:44 <oerjan> or if the centres are at (-x,0), (X,0), the intersections are at (0, +-h)
15:35:39 <oerjan> no solutions if r+R < D.
15:36:23 <oerjan> or r+D < R or R+D < r, i guess.
15:37:50 <oerjan> r^2 - R^2 = x^2 - X^2 = D*(x - X)
15:39:03 <oerjan> = D*(D - 2*X), so X = D - (r^2 - R^2)/D
15:39:23 <oerjan> er *X = (D - (r^2 - R^2)/D)/2
15:39:48 <oerjan> hm not a square root in sight, can that be right
15:40:01 <oerjan> (you'll get one in h, of course)
15:41:25 <oerjan> x = (D + (r^2 - R^2)/D)/2
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15:45:04 <FireFly> I should think about some IOCCC submission ideas too…
15:46:02 <oerjan> = D^2/4 + (r^2 - R^2)/2 + (r^2 - R^2)/(4*D^2) - r^2
15:47:14 <oerjan> bah never mind, you should already have x and r.
15:49:20 <oerjan> as usual, my attempt to think math attracts noise from the neighbors.
16:25:48 -!- int-e has set topic: Wanted: long-lived topic | The exact geometry channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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17:57:54 <Taneb> @tell oerjan Many thanks
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20:20:32 <zzo38> This document is draft of picture format of TAVERN http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/wiki?name=Pictures You can write comment/suggestion/question/complaint of it please.
20:28:56 <lambdabot> git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot
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21:51:54 <int-e> . o O ( lambdabot: so how do you like NYC? )
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23:40:43 <HackEgo> foe//the foe is the Field-On Enemy
23:42:02 <int-e> who's writing a foeilleton?
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23:42:26 <int-e> though perhaps that's not musical.
23:43:06 <int-e> . o O ( a floete is an unfriendly instrument )
23:45:46 * boily thwacks int-e. 0.20 FP.
23:46:17 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_PVPyn6n8
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23:48:34 <lambdabot> Taneb said 5h 50m 39s ago: Many thanks
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23:50:53 <oerjan> is lambdabot in new york now?
23:51:30 <oerjan> . o O ( surely you weren't keeping it on CaC... )
23:52:14 <boily> @ask lambdabot hellombdabot. where are you?
23:52:41 <oerjan> where HackEgo still is
23:52:59 <boily> oh, that Wretched Thing.
23:53:37 <fizzie> HackEgo: So how do you like Canada?
23:54:53 <boily> fizziello. Canada isn't wretched hth
23:55:10 <fizzie> No, but that's where CaC lives.
23:55:33 <fizzie> http://www.kwdatacentre.com/ <- there
23:56:09 <fizzie> ("Kitchener" is a funny name.)
23:57:57 <boily> I like Kirkland. it's Costco's inhouse brand. it's made of good.
23:58:09 <fizzie> It's also a city, I think.
23:58:21 <fizzie> I think we've got an office there.
23:59:00 <fizzie> https://careers.google.com/locations/seattle-kirkland/ apparently so
23:59:24 <boily> it's a suburb in the West Island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkland,_Quebec
23:59:41 <shachaf> fizzie: Are you moving to Kirkland?
00:03:32 <alercah> wait I could go say hi to lambdabot in person?
00:06:38 <fizzie> shachaf: No, but I think we had a recent visitor from there.
00:07:20 <fizzie> I think I've heard something about Microsoft and Kirkland as well.
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00:10:45 <int-e> oerjan: no I wasn't keeping it on CaC... but it was pushing the limits of its VPS.
00:10:48 <HackEgo> IRCFrEAK: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:11:02 <boily> alercah: hellorcah! can you take pictures?
00:12:51 <int-e> oerjan: and somehow the VPS type I wanted is currently "out of stock" at ramnode's NL location... and it doesn't really matter where lambdabot is running... not even for privacy concerns given the unencrypted state of IRC.
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00:16:04 * oerjan recalls something about irc and tls but cannot remember if freenode was supporting it or not
00:16:44 <int-e> but it's still fairly moot
00:17:15 <int-e> if you check /whois lambdabot you'll see it's even using tls
00:19:40 <int-e> it's the most secure thing ever: socat TCP4-LISTEN:6667,bind=127.0.0.1,reuseaddr,fork,forever OPENSSL:chat.freenode.net:6697,verify=0 ... the last option means that MITM attacks are not prevented.
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00:29:46 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone's made "man in the middle" lyrics to that michael jackson melody
00:32:12 <oerjan> apparently there are at least two real songs with that title.
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00:50:00 <HackEgo> #esoteric-blah//#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
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01:15:31 <boily> "the +10 mace "Natiheoq" (weapon) {protect, +Inv}".
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01:33:06 <boily> rdochelloc, hppavellon[1], Jafellot.
01:56:22 * boily bores rdococ with his choice of surgical tool: https://achatmaterieldentiste.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forme-fraise-metallique.png?w=600&h=256
02:01:05 <boily> and to make sure that everything is perfectly clean and aseptic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorhexidine
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02:04:15 <oerjan> boily: you may have forgot the anesthetics hth
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02:46:13 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
02:47:40 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I'm sorry to hear that...
02:48:34 <adu> hppavilion[1]: anything I can do to help?
02:48:50 <adu> debugging? reverse engineering? refactoring?
02:49:14 <hppavilion[1]> adu: One of my cats died. Don't particularly want to talk about it
02:49:33 <adu> hppavilion[1]: take a moment, that's all you can do
02:51:01 <adu> I've never known that, I've had 2 indoor-outdoor cats disappear into the abyss, but I've never known the feeling of seeing such an extended family member pass like that
02:51:30 <adu> but in some sense, it's worse not knowing
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05:24:13 <hppavilion[1]> "President Dotgov announced today her pick for Secretary of Defense"
05:26:23 <hppavilion[1]> So as not to leave you hanging, it was Nukem Dotmil.
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06:06:46 <Jafet> apparently, in MUMPS you can abbreviate keywords: https://github.com/OSEHRA/VistA-M/blob/master/Packages/Dental/Routines/DENTA1.m
06:09:15 <Jafet> in fact this looks like a great language
06:09:19 <Jafet> RE W ! S DIC("A")="Select "_$P($T(OPT),S,4)_": EXIT// ",DIC="^DOPT("_""""_$P($T(OPT),S,5)_""""_",",DIC(0)="AEQMN" D ^DIC G:X=""!(X=U) EXIT G:Y<0 RE K DIC,J,O D @($P($T(OPT+Y),S,4)) G PR
06:31:18 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently a "new study" found that most people see themselves as nicer than they actually are
06:31:33 <hppavilion[1]> Which raises the questions of "how the hell did you even do that"
06:53:20 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: maybe you could ask other people who know them to rate them on a scale from 1 to 10?
06:53:29 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: sort of like style points
06:53:38 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: Maybe, but you still run into the issue of different scales
06:54:05 <Vorpal> I didn't say the solution was good, but is the only one remotely close to workable I can think of
06:54:45 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: still isn't a scale from 1 = Literally Hitler to 10 = The incarnate of niceness objective?!
06:56:18 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: anyway it wouldn't surprise me if the effect was true for the simple reason that a similar effect seems to exist for other aspects of ourselves. People think they are smarter than they really are and so on.
07:01:40 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, the misparse didn't change that the answer is 'no'
07:02:12 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: um? what are you saying "no" to?
07:02:18 <Vorpal> the joke about the scale?
07:03:27 <Vorpal> too early in the morning for sed fuckery
07:05:44 <Vorpal> I don't know sed well enough, I basically use the s and d commands in it only
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08:38:33 <izabera> some (most?) of the moves you do on a pole, you can do on a person
08:39:24 <izabera> so it's erotic because "look what i can do to you"
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09:09:10 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: a 10 year old surely shouldn't know that a stripper uses a pole to begin with?
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09:22:16 <Jafet> strippers? I've been told that pole dancing is a fitness program
09:26:23 <erkin> I thought strippers do pole vaulting.
09:26:32 <erkin> Or was it pole jousting?
09:26:51 <Jafet> yes, that's what the really tall shoes are for
09:30:29 <erkin> I was told they wear them to be closer to God.
09:44:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Adri * New user account
09:45:36 <Vorpal> @tell fizzie cfunge has been migrated to github: https://github.com/VorpalBlade/cfunge
09:46:20 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Pole dancing is also very good exercise. I'd probably do it if it didn't mean I had to turn in my man card
09:47:06 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Some parents sign their children up for pole dancing classes...
09:47:18 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, I get that it's great exercise, and that there shouldn't be a stigma attached
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10:19:01 <\oren\> It is a lot easier to invade england when all the british soldiers are dicking around wiht the italians in Africa
10:33:55 <\oren\> I'm attempting the "Vive la france" achievement. I've gotten to 1942, I need to get to 1948 without surrendering to anyone
10:34:27 <\oren\> I started by invading belgium and netherlands, and then england.
11:15:03 <hppavilion[1]> (rather than [ˈdelta] like you'd expect; Δ makes the /ð/ sound, like the 'th' in "this")
11:19:58 <erkin> Modern Greek has diverged significantly from Ancient Greek.
11:20:23 <erkin> e.g hydros would be pronounced "idhros" (although they no longer call water that - now it's "nera")
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11:42:10 <rdococ> Δis all sounds interesting
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13:05:14 <HackEgo> mothology//Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths.
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14:38:21 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> "President Dotgov announced today her pick for Secretary of Defense" <-- . o O ( i should rule the world from my evil lair Punktumno... )
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14:58:37 <Vorpal> Deewiant: I set up continuous integration for cfunge whereby it automatically runs mycology as one of the tests. Annoying to filter the output to get rid of randomness and date/time though.
15:01:37 <Deewiant> Vorpal: Run with a fixed seed and libfaketime?
15:02:23 <Vorpal> Deewiant: hm that would be another option. I filter the output. cfunge moved to github today btw
15:02:40 <Vorpal> I plan to finally make a 1.0 release soon, either today or next weekend
15:02:45 <Vorpal> https://github.com/VorpalBlade/cfunge
15:03:17 <Vorpal> Or if that doesn't happen, sometime next year ;P
15:03:38 <Deewiant> Yeah that's the typical way it goes :-)
15:04:31 <oerjan> fizzie: we seem to have a user who cannot get past the introduction - from the esolang e was trying to create, i suspect e's really bad at english
15:04:33 <Vorpal> Deewiant: still, no longer on bzr :)
15:04:54 <oerjan> (as in, everything but the language name was in russian)
15:05:00 <Vorpal> Deewiant: efunge and such might migrate in the not to distant future
15:05:38 <Vorpal> Need to figure out how to map branches from bzr to git though first. cfunge only had a single branch
15:06:10 <Deewiant> Are there no ready-made tools for bzr->git that would handle branches?
15:06:20 <Deewiant> Or is it that there are too many alternatives
15:08:31 <Vorpal> Deewiant: there is a bzr fast-export | git fast-import thing (the bzr thing being a plugin) that I used, and that seems to be the only alternative. Unless you go through for example hg in the middle
15:08:56 <Vorpal> hg convert (bundled extension) can import from bzr (among other things)
15:09:03 <Deewiant> Does that mangle the branches then or something?
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15:09:20 <Vorpal> Deewiant: I don't know. The concept of branches doesn't map 1:1 between the two systems
15:09:44 <Vorpal> In bzr a branch is basically just another tree. There is nothing magical like a tag.
15:09:56 <Vorpal> While in git there are several branches in the same tree.
15:10:42 <Vorpal> And hg has yet another concept for branches, whereby it is an attribute of each commit and inherited by default (unless you create a new branch) by child commits.
15:10:59 <Vorpal> going through hg will probably NOT help thus
15:11:51 <Vorpal> So I suspect there will be some finagling involved with branches
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15:14:49 <Vorpal> Deewiant: you haven't touched mycology in a long time according to github
15:14:49 <Deewiant> Hm, ok. Never really looked at bzr. I guess that as long as there's some kind of ancestry information it can map things more or less correctly but you may want to do some post-processing to get it to look nice or something
15:15:40 <Deewiant> Too little time these days, alas.
15:15:48 <Vorpal> Deewiant: mostly same for me
15:16:09 <Vorpal> Hm.. need do do a couple of things. No release today of cfunge I expect
15:19:31 <oerjan> <erkin> e.g hydros would be pronounced "idhros" (although they no longer call water that - now it's "nera") <-- "nero" * oerjan has been learning greek songs
15:19:55 <erkin> Greece is a pretty nice place.
15:20:03 <oerjan> never been there though
15:21:32 <oerjan> given that the basics of the spelling system are ~ 2500 years old, modern greek is actually surprisingly easy to pronounce.
15:21:57 <oerjan> they just use different sounds, but still logically inferrable ones.
15:22:13 <erkin> Being in the same place for millennia helps :P
15:22:43 <oerjan> not really. english also did that, but see how it messed up in < 500 years
15:23:01 <erkin> But English migrated a lot!
15:23:08 <erkin> Well, only from Denmark to England but still
15:23:26 <oerjan> it didn't really get its spelling system until it settled down.
15:23:36 <erkin> Okay okay, Norman invasion and all, I withdraw my argument.
15:24:07 <oerjan> also, i read that not very long ago, most people in the athens area spoke albanian - there has been revival.
15:24:07 <erkin> Hvaðan ertu, örjan?
15:25:33 <erkin> I wonder what happened to Aromanian in Greece these days.
15:29:11 <oerjan> "In Greece, Aromanians are not recognised as an ethnic but as a linguistic minority and, like the Arvanites, have been indistinguishable in many respects from other Greeks since the 19th century."
15:37:17 <erkin> Cultural disappearance makes me sad.
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18:01:18 <Vorpal> Deewiant: branches are causing major issues indeed
18:03:23 <Vorpal> Not sure how to properly handle that at all
18:03:43 <Vorpal> Unless I go via hg actually
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18:05:06 <Vorpal> Because the conversion to hg seems relatively sane, though not completely
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18:13:59 <rdococ> Very unlike me, then. I'm absolutely insane.
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19:56:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
20:01:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: /hackenv/bin/lowercase2b: /bin/bash\ntr: bad interpreter: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/lowercase2b: Success
20:01:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash\ntr A-ZØ a-zø
20:02:07 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø
20:02:53 <hppavilion[1]> It seems multi-byte unicode characters cause immense lag.
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20:04:24 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
20:04:27 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
20:06:14 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
20:06:59 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "#/bin/bash\ntr A-Z a-z\ntr Ø ø" > bin/lowercase2c
20:07:08 <HackEgo> #/bin/bash\ntr A-Z a-z\ntr Ø ø
20:07:21 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø
20:07:33 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2c//#/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z \ tr Ø ø
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20:55:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Kvikkalkul]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51382&oldid=34661 * EzoLang * (+25) Use Wayback Machine for the homepage link, as original is 403 now
20:59:55 <Zarutian> one question I have and I do not know where else to ask it (at least on irc): Do programs today need anything more, generally, than the level of primitive recursive functions? Say that I have the usual event loop structured program. I expect all the event handling code not needing Turing completeness in expressiveness.
21:00:43 * Zarutian mainly asks because of the esotaric language LOOP is an example of language that isnt Turing complete but is on the level of primitive recursive functions.
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21:09:36 <int-e> Zarutian: Well, the difference between primitive recursion and turing complete languages is actually quite small, since for any primitive recursive time bound f(x) you can simulate a Turing machine for f(x) steps in a primitive recursive function (this is related to the "one while is enough" idea for while programs)
21:10:42 <int-e> Zarutian: In practice I think people want a) data structures, likely with sharing, which is mathematically unpleasant b) an expressive language c) not bother with termination proofs (and that's where restricting to primitive recursion may hurt you a lot)
21:11:33 <Zarutian> oh, yeah, object|structs heap is a given for what I am thinking about
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21:11:56 <int-e> so what if there is a cycle in there... what does "primitive recursion" mean then?
21:12:10 <int-e> (that's about the point where I want to stop thinking about this)
21:13:31 <Zarutian> pointer|reference following is an activity that sometimes results in endless loops that make single threaded programs seem frozen.
21:14:40 <Zarutian> That there is a limit on how deep or long such pointer chasing can go on is a desireable attribute
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21:17:48 <Zarutian> however most of the datastructures I see today, that could have cycles in them are graphs describing relations between objects. Most other things fall into trees, finate arrays or maps (finate at one instant of time between execution of instructions)
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21:44:01 <ffj-bot> hppavilion[1]: |value error: test
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23:38:20 <zzo38> In GURPS game I may soon play, my character's friend is fight with whip (5 yards long) and crossbow. A whip in GURPS is not very good at penetrating armour (it has Armor Divisor (0.5), meaning the target's armour is divided by 0.5 (or multiplied by 2)), and takes two seconds to ready after use, and has -2 to defense, but is more effective at disarming, can entangle opponents, and can "crack" to improve damage.
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00:08:11 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
00:08:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think you are misinterpreting why it's slow hth
00:09:14 <shachaf> i,i lowercase2 = 2 . lowercase
00:09:22 <oerjan> `sled bin/lowercase2//s,tr,print_args_or_input "$@" | tr/
00:09:23 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 35: unterminated `s' command
00:09:29 <oerjan> `sled bin/lowercase2//s,tr,print_args_or_input "$@" | tr,
00:09:31 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
00:10:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it was slow because it was trying to read from HackEgo's stdin, which never gets anything and causes a slow timeout.
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00:11:12 <oerjan> basically, unless you use the print_arges_or_input trick, command line arguments don't get passed into stdin of the command.
00:11:42 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1 hppavilion̈1
00:12:00 <shachaf> Imagine if all shaventions disappeared from bin/
00:12:19 <oerjan> fizzie: i've been wondering if it'd be a good idea to replace that top HackEgo stdin with /dev/null to avoid those timeouts.
00:14:42 <oerjan> (when people accidentally give HackEgo a command that reads from its stdin)
00:15:18 <shachaf> everyone's shannovating now
00:16:12 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: also, tr doesn't understand unicode, that's why we use sed y///
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00:17:01 <shachaf> I'm not sure why the #esoteric encoding is en_NZ.UTF-8
00:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Technically, you used sed s/// in classical ‹lowercase›
00:17:06 <shachaf> Isn't UTF-8 a little mainstream?
00:17:38 <oerjan> shachaf: because people were complaining that HackEgo used LANG=C and then Gregor was being funny when fixing it hth
00:18:26 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, what do you call an intentional typo? "typo" is short for "typographical error"
00:18:28 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: yeah for original lowercase i still didn't know that sed y/// understood unicode
00:18:38 <shachaf> oerjan: But why not use UCS-2.625?
00:18:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
00:18:50 <oerjan> i have no idea what that is.
00:19:17 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/shebang_args_or_input
00:19:25 <shachaf> The thing where you put three 21-bit code points into a 64-bit word.
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00:19:29 <shachaf> With one extra bit left over.
00:19:33 <oerjan> the shebang version is useful for perl and python scripts
00:24:01 <oerjan> i didn't add those to original lowercase because it's meant only for internal use in other commands.
00:24:40 <oerjan> (wait, maybe HackEgo's stdin should run print_args_or_input :P)
00:24:52 -!- shachaf has set topic: Wanted: long-lived topic | The short exact geometry channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:26:11 <oerjan> shachaf: an epic topic
00:26:57 <shachaf> oerjan: there's a kernel of truth to that
00:28:45 <shachaf> What do you think of image, kernel, coimage, cokernel?
00:28:53 <shachaf> I always forget which is which.
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00:29:25 <oerjan> i have not dealed much with the co- versions.
00:29:41 <shachaf> I guess the coimage is isomorphic to the image?
00:30:15 <shachaf> i,i http://slbkbs.org/out.svg
00:30:55 <shachaf> That thing is the first isomorphism theorem for functions, I guess.
00:30:58 <oerjan> is that real category theory or a mensa test
00:31:12 <shachaf> I don't think there's much category theory there.
00:31:19 <shachaf> The thing at the top is a function.
00:32:01 <shachaf> But you can decompose it into three steps -- identify, rename, adjoin
00:32:20 <shachaf> Which are a surjection, a bijection, and an injection, respectively.
00:32:58 <shachaf> The second set on the second row is the coimage, which is isomorphic to the image (the third set).
00:33:07 <oerjan> was just going to ask that
00:33:46 <shachaf> The last two rows are about antifunctions, which are arrows in Set^op
00:34:28 <shachaf> An antifunction can be factored into three steps too -- Pratt calls them delete, rename, copy
00:34:49 <oerjan> ok so the kernel is the element of the coimage that contains 0, i guess.
00:35:08 <oerjan> (thinking about modules)
00:35:32 <oerjan> but i still don't know what a cokernel is.
00:35:45 <shachaf> I guess in the context of sets you have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(set_theory)
00:36:22 <oerjan> oh right, that applies to universal algebras iirc
00:36:24 <shachaf> Which says that the kernel is an equivalence relation, and the coimage is what you get by quotienting by that relation?
00:37:28 <oerjan> and only for thinks including a group (or possibly something more general) can you identify the kernel with the class of a particular element
00:38:27 <shachaf> anyway this all ties into chu spaces hth
00:41:53 <shachaf> you don't like the stone gamut?
00:43:08 <oerjan> well, mostly i've forgotten it, although the name rings a bell.
00:43:38 <shachaf> http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/gamut.pdf
00:44:04 <oerjan> i got away with a vague feeling its importance was overblown.
00:45:27 <shachaf> how about the stoned gamut
00:46:23 <oerjan> i can't remember that at all, so i must have been really stoned hth
00:46:49 * oerjan has never been stoned that he can recall.
00:52:09 <oerjan> <Zarutian> one question I have and I do not know where else to ask <-- you should look up total programming and corecursion, that's almost what you ask except with "structural" recursion instead of primitive.
00:53:49 <oerjan> (primitive recursion is basically structural recursion applied only to natural numbers)
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01:10:20 <hppavilion[1]> I may have gone overboard designing the new y-replacement for lowercase2
01:10:32 <hppavilion[1]> ...I have this: y/ÁĂǍÂÄÀȀȂĀĄÅÃǞǺǠÆǼǢĆČĈÇƇĊĎĐÐÉĔĚÊËÈȄȆĒĘĖƑǴĞǦĢĜĠǤĤĦÍĬǏÎÏÌȈȊĪĮĨIJĴǨĶƘĹĽĻĿŁŃŇŅǸÑŊÓŐŎǑÔÖÒȌƠȎŌǪØÕǬǾŒƤŔŘŖȐȒŚŠŞŜŤƬŢŦÞÚŰŬǓÛÜÙƯŪŲŮŨǗǙǕǛŴÝŶŸƳŹŽŻƵƸǮƧƼƄ/áăâǎäàȁȃāąåãǟǻǡæǽǣćčĉçƈċďđðéĕěêëèȅȇēėęƒǵğǧģĝġǥĥħíĭǐîïìȉȋīįĩijĵǩķƙĺľļŀłńňņǹñ
01:10:32 <hppavilion[1]> ŋóőŏǒôöòȍơȏōǫøõǭǿœƥŕřŗȑȓśšşŝťƭţŧþúűŭǔûüùưūųůũǘǚǖǜŵýŷÿƴźžżƶƹǯƨƽƅ/
01:11:08 <hppavilion[1]> Unicode aims to have all characters from all languages. Turns out there are a *lot* of languages.
01:11:56 <shachaf> and people here claim sed supports unicode?
01:12:02 <shachaf> p. sure it only supports regular languages hth
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01:27:51 <oerjan> i claimed tr _doesn't_.
01:28:00 <oerjan> even more so than sed.
01:31:19 <oerjan> hm at some point the esolang wiki seems to have started adding pages i edit to my watchlist by default. which means my watchlist is now even more meaningless than it used to be.
01:33:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51383&oldid=41457 * Oerjan * (+27) /* External resources */ Update link. Alas the link to the Haskell impl wasn't updated in the new site, and has not been archived.
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01:37:09 * oerjan fixes his preferences, clears the watchlist and adds back a handful
01:37:24 <oerjan> not that i ever look at it, but it's the principle of the thing...
01:37:36 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:37:54 <shachaf> `slwrjan s.local.principled.
01:37:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwrjan: not found
01:37:59 <shachaf> I thought I renamed it back.
01:38:03 <shachaf> `swrjan s.local.principled.
01:38:05 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:38:50 <boily> bonshachafoir. do you keep track how many times you've oerjanned?
01:39:56 <shachaf> `` cwlprits oerjan | sed 'sg g\ngg' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
01:40:05 <HackEgo> 85 shachäf \ 34 oerjän \ 8 boil̈y \ 5 noloveinwaikik̈i \ 1 nitïa \ 1 int-̈e \ 1 hppavilion[1̈]
01:40:43 <shachaf> `` cwlprits shachaf | sed sg\ g\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
01:40:51 <HackEgo> 1 boil̈ynoerjännshachäfnboil̈ynshachäfnElronn̈dnElronn̈dnshachäfnoerjännoerjännmrhmous̈enmrhmous̈enoerjännoerjännellioẗtnnitïa
01:41:08 <shachaf> `` cwlprits shachaf | sed sg\ g\\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
01:41:16 <HackEgo> 5 oerjän \ 3 shachäf \ 2 mrhmous̈e \ 2 Elronn̈d \ 2 boil̈y \ 1 nitïa \ 1 ellioẗt
01:41:38 <shachaf> `` cwlprits | sed sg\ g\\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
01:41:45 <HackEgo> 1373 oerjän \ 541 shachäf \ 266 b_jonäs \ 261 boil̈y \ 161 int-̈e \ 134 hppavilion[1̈] \ 96 tsweẗt \ 64 mromän \ 57 Tanëb \ 52 ellioẗt \ 47 Zarutiän \ 38 GreyKnigḧt \ 34 Phantom_Hoovër \ 32 mroman̈_ \ 30 Jafët \ 28 fizzïe \ 27 Rouj̈o \
01:42:09 <shachaf> `` culprits | sed sg\ g\\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
01:42:13 <HackEgo> 2920 oerjän \ 1171 shachäf \ 609 ellioẗt \ 384 b_jonäs \ 357 boil̈y \ 341 hppavilion[1̈] \ 281 fizzïe \ 251 int-̈e \ 220 tsweẗt \ 197 Jafët \ 197 ais52̈3 \ 177 GreyKnigḧt \ 165 km̈c \ 144 zgrëp \ 144 Tanëb \ 138 Rouj̈o \ 107 moon̈_ \ 105 mromän \
01:42:55 <HackEgo> 1/5:dark water:Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination. \ hackego:HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no
01:43:17 <boily> what was the command for continuation again?
01:43:33 <int-e> `cwlprits dark water
01:45:28 <boily> b_jonas has the informativest wisdoms.
01:45:53 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
01:49:05 <HackEgo> αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo!
01:49:41 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport
01:49:53 <boily> had handmade soviet donuts yesterday morning. they were good, but overhyped.
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01:53:23 <shachaf> `mkx bin/`^//[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: `^ n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i <= $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done
01:53:40 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`^: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`^: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:53:57 <shachaf> `mkx bin/`^//[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i <= $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done
01:54:13 <shachaf> `mkx bin/`^//[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done
01:54:48 <shachaf> `mkx bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd"
01:54:59 <shachaf> `mkx bin/4//cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd"
01:55:06 <shachaf> `mkx bin/4//cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 4 "$cmd"
01:55:11 <shachaf> Making a bit of a mess today.
01:55:13 <HackEgo> 679) <shachaf> elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. <shachaf> That is to say, non-constructive. \ 48) <Madelon> both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. <Madelon> kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? \ 1024) <Bike> i think we need more clever we
01:55:38 <shachaf> `mkx bin/`^//[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport
01:55:45 <shachaf> Maybe I should call it 1^ but that would be too confusing.
01:55:50 <HackEgo> 1/2:hacker//Jim Hacker is a former British prime minister. \ gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. \ taiwan//Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Macedonia is. \ pcp//PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illogical in many places, but research
01:55:54 <HackEgo> 2/2:has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem.
02:00:42 <oerjan> `^ is a pretty scow name
02:00:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^: not found
02:01:24 <oerjan> especially for a command that doesn't work as a HackEgo top command
02:01:39 <shachaf> It's just ` to the power of n
02:01:45 <shachaf> feel free to rename it hth
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03:25:09 <hppavilion[1]> The "A Man's Right to Know Act" initially sounds terrible, but on examination, is not entirely so.
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03:40:13 * pikhq is very opiate today
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06:09:31 <shachaf> int-e: Would you like to add http://hackage.haskell.org/package/nonfree to lambdabot?
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07:27:37 <fizzie> @tell oerjan I could replace HackEgo
07:27:54 <fizzie> @tell oerjan 's stdin with the output from 'fortune', that's what one other bot does.
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07:33:31 <zzo38> I think it would mess up the existing program
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08:25:49 <HackEgo> BOFH excuse #270: \ \ Someone has messed up the kernel pointers
08:26:39 <rdococ> is that fortunate or unfortunate?
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10:39:14 -!- boily has set topic: This Topic Shall Be The Longest Lived Into | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
10:47:28 <boily> winter is not coming. winter is here, with a sprinkle of more winter and a side of winter.
10:53:08 <b_jonas> I'm back from skiing holiday, and it was great. Any news with you all?
11:00:10 <boily> b_jellonas! the usual, the usual.
11:00:23 <boily> hellochaf. anything new in your corner of the world?
11:11:07 <boily> rdochelloc. playing it?
11:15:24 <int-e> . o O ( Bitcoin unchained )
11:26:39 <boily> ° · · ( What's an unchained bitcoin? )
11:28:26 <rdococ> something I know nothing about
11:28:35 <int-e> boily: I was alluding to the fact that Bitcoin is a bit unstable because enough people expect a hard fork, basically over the endless block size dispute.
11:28:56 <int-e> boily: then it got twisted in my head and it came up with that phrease
11:29:10 <int-e> or phrase as it's ordinarily spelt.
11:29:18 <boily> they're still going at it? it'll all crumble down soon in a cloud of silicon dust...
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11:31:47 <int-e> I'm finding some great quotes around bitcoin... this is the funniest so far: "Bitcoin has become a multi-billion industry, with great financial investment and societal responsibility."
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11:46:35 <int-e> It's just a flipped coin. The bit tells us whether it shows heads or tails.
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11:48:07 <HackEgo> farcoin dageunsulecoin uestcoin notatacoin 2-illcoin silacoin itmcoin quothcoin marcoin flagcoin pathis=thacoin solatocoin rumcoin brainstonedinacoin unmcoin resecoin sotcoin numertacoin ballcoin waincoin
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12:06:59 <Jafet> `learn bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking.
12:07:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'bitcoin': bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking.
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15:30:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 8h 2m 47s ago: I could replace HackEgo
15:30:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 8h 2m 30s ago: 's stdin with the output from 'fortune', that's what one other bot does.
15:31:48 <HackEgo> Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, \ if ever, do they forgive them. \ -- Oscar Wilde
15:33:05 <HackEgo> circumstantial evidence <--> can ruin a selected victim \ -- anagrama
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16:03:58 <rdococ> Cogood comorning to coeveryone cohere.
16:19:48 <fizzie> `` rm x # int-e: there's a non-versioned tmp/ for this kind of stuff.
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16:21:02 <int-e> fizzie: it was not versioned anyway.
16:21:18 <int-e> fizzie: that's what I checked :-P
16:21:48 <fizzie> I'm not sure what that means.
16:21:53 <fizzie> Your 'x' was definitely versioned.
16:22:17 <fizzie> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/rev/d8ef71647558
16:22:31 <int-e> yes, I see what went wrong there
16:23:37 <int-e> (I ended up at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/shortlog/a891e848f215 ... why is there a revision specific shortlog anyway... don't answer that, but that's what confused me.)
16:26:02 <fizzie> I may have ranted here already about how I dislike fshg's way of putting the fixed revision in the URL whenever you follow a link.
16:27:12 <fizzie> I'm sure it makes sense, but I'd prefer to keep it as 'tip', which is what I usually end up manually editing it to anywya.
16:28:28 <int-e> It makes sense for browsing the repo contents... but for the shortlog I find it surprising... I would rather restrict this to named branches (which hackego doesn't use).
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16:53:26 <\oren\> I like how kOS doesn't have a = operator, it instead has a SET X TO Y. statement
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16:56:43 <\oren\> tbut it has some interesting syntax sugars
16:57:10 <\oren\> like instead of SET SOMEVAR TO TRUE. you can instead write SOMEVAR ON.
16:58:11 <\oren\> and you can do SET SOMEVAR TO NOT SOMEVAR. by writing TOGGLE SOMEVAR.
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17:11:20 <shapr> rdococ: write more Joy?
17:11:48 <shapr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_(programming_language)
17:12:37 <rdococ> I tried to design a version of that but with tape instead
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17:15:31 <shapr> rdococ: sounds interesting, where is it?
17:15:54 <rdococ> I didn't really come up with one concise idea :/
17:16:09 <rdococ> as in, one that someone could interpret with certainty
17:17:54 <b_jonas> \oren\: that reminds me to \newif in TeX, which works in such a way that \newif\iffoo will define three control sequences: \footrue, \foofalse, and \iffoo, where the first two set a boolean, the last one you can use as a conditional with \else and \fi
17:18:07 <b_jonas> it's a pretty strange interface, though there's a reason why it's done that way
17:22:56 <b_jonas> basically, in the skipped part of a conditional, the TeX core won't expand macros, it only scans for tokens (without expanding anything) that are \if*-like, \else-like, and \fi-like to find the matching \else or \fi that ends the skipped branch.
17:23:49 <b_jonas> thus, for any conditional to work at top level, it has to have a syntax where the branches are ended in \else and \fi, and for it to work even when nested inside a skipped branch, the head must have exactly one token that's \if*-like without expanding macros.
17:24:57 <b_jonas> so if you want to define a custom conditional, there are two ways. \newif uses the simple way, which is \let-ing a token in the head (eg. \iffoo) be a synonym for \iftrue or \iffalse. this doesn't let the conditional evaluate anything, but it works for \newif.
17:25:58 <b_jonas> the second way is to have a syntax where the head has at least two important tokens, one being \if or some other \if* builtin or a synonym for that, and one being your custom macro.
17:26:54 <b_jonas> that explains the \iffoo part
17:28:10 <b_jonas> as for the \footrue, you can't just use a syntax like \settrue\iffoo because then that wouldn't work inside a skipped branch. you could use something like \settrue{foo} or \settrue\boolfoo or something, but that isn't really easier than creating two more control sequences \footrue and \foofalse.
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17:35:59 <b_jonas> rdococ: that works well only in a pure functional language like haskell, not in a language where expressions will typically have side effects
17:36:33 <rdococ> I prefer front effects, or back effects
17:36:48 <b_jonas> also for nontrivial stuff, it probably needs lexically scoped variables, which TeX doesn't have
17:44:07 <zzo38> What kind of nontrivial stuff you would have expected lexically scoped variables?
17:44:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: closure functions (whether named or unnamed)
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17:49:05 <HackEgo> lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
17:49:10 <HackEgo> 1/1:nortti//nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin's promises, and now is his High Priest. \ chthonic//Chthonic lithping can be vethy dithturbing to lithten to. \ ?//? is wisdom \ yeeeesh//See yeeesh.
17:50:13 <HackEgo> .hg_archival.txt//repo: 91b847686710739546584c6316a0fb109ba2095c \ node: fc8e6b56392fc6ba11e3fab6ea8b4d96ad8bff2d \ branch: default \ latesttag: null \ latesttagdistance: 1602 \ .hgignore//^tmp/ \ ^wisdom/testing \ wisdom/testing \ bin///bin/: no such file in rev 560a73f4f0a4 \ bin///bin/: no such file in rev 560a73f4f0a4 \ bin///
17:50:31 <b_jonas> yeah, that's not an answer. sorry.
17:50:46 <shachaf> oerjan: what happened to `before :'(
17:50:56 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf shachäf shachäf shachäf shachäf
17:51:08 <HackEgo> 6627:2016-01-30 <boil̈y> learn nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin\'s promises, and now is his High Priest. \ 661:2012-08-17 <atrïq> learn nortti boy. very nortti boy.
17:51:57 <shachaf> @ask boily what's that edit to wisdom/nortti about? twh
17:52:07 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
17:54:05 <shachaf> Wasn't oerjan editing these at one point?
18:08:24 <int-e> "At Cloud At Cost we're always striving to deliver the best customer support in the industry. You have recently closed a support ticket (#nnnnnnn - Cancellation of account), and we would like to know about your experience." <-- last thing I'll ever see from them, I hope :-P
18:10:37 <Zarutian> int-e: really shitty cloud provider?
18:11:34 <int-e> Zarutian: Yes. They had one thing going for them: pay-once-and-forget VPSs. Apparently they have regrets so they added a yearly fee.
18:12:03 <int-e> shachaf: industrialised vaporware
18:12:41 <Zarutian> int-e: let me guess and their infrastructure was hopelessly underprovisioned?
18:12:53 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
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18:13:16 <int-e> fairly overcommitted, yes...
18:13:51 <int-e> (Take HackEgo, HackEgo is still on one of those VPSs I think; HackEgo tends to be slow.)
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18:14:56 <shachaf> You should just use Google Cloud.
18:15:07 <shachaf> You might have to move to North America first.
18:15:17 <int-e> Why would I do that.
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18:15:48 <hppavilion[1]> OK, I'm reading The Alchemist for school, and this shit don't add up.
18:15:50 <int-e> Because of separation of concerns.
18:17:18 <hppavilion[1]> The book seems to take place in the past; the book was published in 1988 (translation published in 1993), and seems to take place in the distant past- no mention of cars, trains, aeroplanes, or anything
18:17:20 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I know at least two diffrent books with that title. Is it the more recent part of a series one or the earlier one where the name of the protagonist isnt revieled until on the nearly the last page?
18:17:21 <int-e> Basically I'm trying to limit the extent to which I depend on Google. It's bad enough as it is, no need to add a VPS to the mix.
18:18:13 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: I'm a bit over a third of the way in, but there's no serious revieling OR reviling thus far
18:18:27 <hppavilion[1]> The main character is a shepherd who is mentioned to have studied at a monastery
18:18:48 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: and is his name at all mentioned yet?
18:19:52 <int-e> btw CaC says, this may be true, that they've always reserved the right to change the ToS without notice, and just do notifications (at control panel login time) as a matter of courtesy. (amazingly I got a reply to my complaint about how they handled the ToS change. They did not react to the complaint about the fee being buried though.)
18:20:19 <int-e> This may be the best support I've ever gotten from them ;-)
18:20:23 <hppavilion[1]> "But he had to move on. He believed in omens. All his life and all his studies were aimed at finding the one true language of the universe. First he had studied Esperanto, then the world's religions, and now it was alchemy"
18:20:29 <shachaf> So what do you think about Data.Monoid.Nonfree?
18:20:35 <int-e> AAA+, would cancel again.
18:20:36 <hppavilion[1]> "...the one true language of the universe. First he had studied Esperanto..."
18:21:16 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: Then I am not sure if it is a much earlier book or not. The one I read talked about a sheperd that sold his flock and tried his luck in North Africa.
18:21:22 <hppavilion[1]> The book *must* take place after (or, in the extreme case, in) 1887
18:21:52 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I see. Esperanto wasnt invented until right before 1900 iirc
18:22:25 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: the translation I read (it was translated into Icelandic) has no mention of esperanto
18:23:53 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe it's http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AfterTheEnd
18:24:09 <shapr> xu do tavla mi bau la lojban
18:24:20 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Yeah, I figured it might just be a translator's joke, but it's bugging me
18:25:10 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: also the name of the protagonist is never mentioned until nearly at the end. He is always refered to as the boy, young man, etc
18:25:34 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: It's mentioned in literally the first sentence of this one
18:25:43 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Is he going to the pyramids in the one you read?
18:26:08 <hppavilion[1]> Does he meet a biblical figure who gives him a pair of magic rocks?
18:26:14 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: nope. and nope.
18:26:23 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: this must be a third book then.
18:26:29 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Either we're reading different books or there's something weird
18:26:46 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: This one is originally written by Paulo Coelho
18:26:59 <shapr> Are you reading in the original Portugues?
18:27:07 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: or pretty much a 'rewrite' by a lazy translator.
18:27:18 <Zarutian> shapr: go'i .i but only a little.
18:27:29 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alchemist_(novel)
18:27:41 <rdococ> I found out how to create a real philosopher's stone.
18:28:01 <rdococ> Legally change your name to Philosopher, then claim a stone.
18:28:39 <hppavilion[1]> "Paulo Coelho is a strong advocate of spreading his books through peer-to-peer file sharing networks."
18:29:09 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: pretty much the same story but the last name of the author was Gioani and he was Spanish iirc.
18:29:33 <rdococ> Create a universe in which the philosopher's stone has been discovered, and then modify Lego Dimensions to include a level pack for that game?
18:29:42 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Sounds like it's either based on the same original tale (I don't know whether this is based on something classic) or one person write a ripoff of the other
18:30:00 <Zarutian> and I think that book was written earlier than the Brazilian one.
18:31:01 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: Therefore, the philosopher's stone exists.
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18:31:19 <rdococ> Well, if you have to place it on the stand thingy to, er, use it ingame.
18:31:31 <rdococ> If not, someone has to create another franchise.
18:32:40 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I think it is based on something classic but the boy was never at a seminary though he could read
18:34:11 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: mind if I possibly spoil the ending?
18:34:51 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: then I wont tell you then.
18:35:57 <Zarutian> he was halluciating the whole time because he used a strange herb to spice his evening meal <- not the ending ;-)
18:36:30 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: That's technically still a (mild) spoiler.
18:36:51 <hppavilion[1]> Saying what the ending isn't constrains the field of possible endings, which is a type of spoiler
18:37:46 <hppavilion[1]> Saying "Bob doesn't die at the end" doesn't tell you the ending, and doesn't feel as bad as "Bob dies at the end" spoilerwise, but it still constrains the possible ending tree to prune branches in which Bob dies
18:38:09 <hppavilion[1]> And if there's ever a point where you think he DOES die, or aren't sure, it dulls the suspense significantly
18:39:36 <Zarutian> welp go yourself in a hole there I think. But for what kind of reading assignment is this book?
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18:44:46 <quintopia> it's john that dies at the end hth
18:45:24 <rdococ> You're all filthy spoilers.
18:45:43 <shapr> oh hi quintopia, did you send me a resume?
18:46:33 * shapr tries to hire quintopia
18:46:34 <quintopia> shapr: no but i invited you to lunch! i did not know where you would like to receive such a document
18:46:46 <shapr> oh, I must have missed that invite
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18:50:47 <shapr> shachaf: I am in Atlanta, Georgia
18:51:00 <shapr> shachaf: do you ever end up in the southeast USA?
18:51:52 <shachaf> Well, I've been to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
18:52:21 <quintopia> shapr: i invited you here in this channel while you were lurking but i should have used @ask
18:52:47 <quintopia> shapr: because you said you would be willing to talk my ear off about testing strategy and methods
18:52:59 <quintopia> shapr: if you're available some weekend
18:53:14 <shapr> oh yeah, I get all kinds of exciting about software testing.
18:53:15 <shachaf> Don't you ever end up in the southwest USA?
18:53:26 <shapr> shachaf: not in the past ten or twenty years.
18:53:34 <quintopia> welp time to go to work. l8r folks
18:55:33 <FireFly> shapr: when were you last scanned whilst transiting by airplane?
18:59:43 <shapr> um, a few months back when flying to Denver
18:59:57 <shapr> FireFly: are you alluding to Scanned In Avian?
19:00:19 <\oren\> Volapuk is better than esperanto
19:04:00 <erkin> Eurocentric IALs are boring
19:04:11 <\oren\> because it doesn't try to have a verb for every noun
19:05:01 <\oren\> volapuk isn't very eurocentric either
19:07:23 <\oren\> the inventor took words from european languages but deformed them in order to make them less recognizable
19:08:38 <\oren\> like, the lord's prayer in volapuk looks a lot less like mangled latin and more just completely foreign to my eye
19:08:51 <zzo38> If "Bob doesn't die at the end" or "Bob dies at the end", then, the other possibility also, maybe there is someone else named Bob too, you don't know who is meant, or maybe at first you thought you do but later there is someone else with same name, and people in the story confuse them for each other too
19:10:49 <zzo38> Or, in some story, there may be the possibility someone is dead but they will recover, perhaps in the sequel
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19:11:19 <\oren\> O Fat obas, kel binol in süls! Nem olik pasalüdükonöd! Regän ola kömonöd! Vil olik jenonöd, äsä in sül, i su tal!
19:11:22 <\oren\> Givolös obes adelo bodi aldelik obsik! E pardolös obes döbotis obsik, äsä i obs pardobs utanes, kels edöbons kol obs.
19:11:25 <\oren\> E no obis nindukolös in tendadi; E no blufodolös obis, ab livükolös obis de bad! So binosös!
19:12:47 <\oren\> the main thing eurocentric about this is the fact that things are pronounced pretty much like German
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19:23:13 <\oren\> "According to the research, one out of ten Belarusians does not understand Belarusian."
19:24:30 <\oren\> 72% of Belarusians speak Russian at home, while Belarusian is used by only 11.9% of Belarusians.
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19:44:55 <lambdabot> PAMR 201853Z 27003KT 10SM FEW065 M07/M09 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP132 T10671094 $
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19:58:20 <\oren\> "When war broke out and American troops were sent overseas, the Coca-Cola company vowed that any American in uniform should be able to get a Coke for five cents wherever they were.[10] As a result, the company built bottling stations in the Pacific and on the Western front."
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21:07:11 <zzo38> Do you know if there is program compiling WebAssembly program into a C code?
21:13:31 <zzo38> I think there can be use for both ways converting
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22:16:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Josh * New user account
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22:35:04 <HackEgo> ronald reagan//Ronald Reagan was an actor so great that he managed to convince the US that he was the President. Then he created the Star Wars project to destroy the Soviet Union.
22:35:14 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 4h 43m 16s ago: what's that edit to wisdom/nortti about? twh
22:35:14 <lambdabot> In a flat choice between smoke and jobs, we're for jobs...But just keep me out of trouble on environmental issues.
22:35:34 <lambdabot> Sure there are dishonest men in local government. But there are dishonest men in national government too.
22:35:42 <lambdabot> I played by the rules of politics as I found them.
22:35:45 <HackEgo> nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin's promises, and now is his High Priest.
22:36:08 <HackEgo> 661:2012-08-17 <atrïq> learn nortti boy. very nortti boy. \ 6627:2016-01-30 <boil̈y> learn nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin\'s promises, and now is his High Priest.
22:36:18 <boily> there was something about shikhin being some kind of malevolent demigod and/or something to that effect.
22:36:51 * boily handwaves the details under a conspicuous lampshade
22:36:58 <HackEgo> nortti:nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin's promises, and now is his High Priest. \ Binary file reflection matches \ shikhin:shikhin is a Malevolent God, who will promise you stuff tomorrow.
22:37:12 <boily> seems I remembered the malevolent part.
22:37:28 <int-e> the evil bits are the most memorable
22:37:41 <boily> there's a RFC for that.
22:37:44 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
22:38:26 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/'/’/
22:38:28 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it’s the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing i
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22:39:24 <shachaf> atriq's entry was kind of a classic, is all.
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22:50:28 <int-e> shachaf: congratulations, now oerjan's entry gets cut off
22:54:46 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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23:05:10 <shachaf> int-e: Anyway why are you congratulating me?
23:07:44 <int-e> shachaf: good question
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23:08:47 <shachaf> It's not as if I'm responsible for oerjan's wisdom entry.
23:08:53 <shachaf> `` cwlprits oerjan | sed sg\ g\\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
23:09:01 <HackEgo> 86 shachäf \ 34 oerjän \ 9 boil̈y \ 5 noloveinwaikik̈i \ 1 nitïa \ 1 int-̈e \ 1 hppavilion[1̈]
23:09:10 <shachaf> `` cwlprits int-e | sed sg\ g\\ngg | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
23:09:33 <int-e> it says <boily> up there but I thought I saw <shachaf>
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23:42:36 <quintopia> zzo38: Dresden dies at the end of "Changes" hth
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01:07:30 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:07:53 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:10:09 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principled tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:10:42 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:12:49 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:14:05 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:14:46 <shachaf> Trying to get to the top of the swrjan leaderboard?
01:17:49 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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01:26:34 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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02:31:52 <quintopia> a command just for editing oerjan's wisdom entry? what is this madness
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02:33:52 <shachaf> `` doag | egrep 'sl?wrjan' | wc -l
02:35:54 <quintopia> whats gross is the proliferation of poorly documented (s/poorly /un/) commands
02:36:12 <shachaf> oerjan's been doing a great job at documenting them.
02:36:31 <quintopia> i mean docs man, not wisdom entries
02:36:31 <HackEgo> `[hd]o[aw][gt] [<filename>] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first.
02:37:05 <shachaf> No one even cares about hoag at this point.
02:37:44 <quintopia> i can see how dates would be useful
02:38:47 <quintopia> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodag#/media/File:Hodag_002.jpg
02:39:43 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unpleasant_Profession_of_Jonathan_Hoag
03:31:54 <HackEgo> Relearned 'bird': The Bird is Cruel!
03:32:21 <HackEgo> <shachäf> learn The Bird is Cruel! \ <Phantom_Hoovër> learn bird bird bird bird \ <nortẗi> learn bird is a dinosaur \ <Phantom_Hoovër> learn bird bird bird bird
03:32:41 <shachaf> `learn handles something that `? doesn't?
03:44:51 <HackEgo> USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton.
03:45:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/the five wisdoms wisdom/the most hideous cacophony in g minor wisdom/the neverending work wisdom/the question wisdom/the reals wisdom/the them wisdom/the third wisdom wisdom/the torus wisdom/the u wisdom/the universe wisdom/the us wisdom/the usual suspect wisdom/the walrus
03:47:16 <HackEgo> The U are a very mad people.
03:48:31 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls the\ * | grep -v '...........'
03:48:33 <HackEgo> the reals \ the them \ the torus \ the u \ the us \ the walrus
03:48:44 <HackEgo> The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
03:48:54 <HackEgo> The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994.
03:49:09 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/reals: No such file or directory
03:49:31 <HackEgo> 5623:2015-06-18 <shachäf> revert \ 5622:2015-06-18 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/overt //\' wisdom/real \ 5609:2015-06-18 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/a /an overt /\' wisdom/real \ 5416:2015-06-06 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/\\..*/./\' wisdom/real \ 5415:2015-06-06 <oerjän> mv wisdom/{"the reals",real}
03:49:55 <HackEgo> 5427:2015-06-06 <oerjän> ` ln -s real wisdom/"the reals" \ 5426:2015-06-06 <oerjän> ` rm wisdom/"the reals" \ 5422:2015-06-06 <oerjän> ` ln -s wisdom/{real,"the reals"} \ 5415:2015-06-06 <oerjän> mv wisdom/{"the reals",real} \ 5411:2015-06-05 <shachäf> le/rn the reals/The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb i
03:50:20 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/the\ reals
03:50:21 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 4 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/the reals -> real
03:51:19 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls a\ * | grep -v '...........'
03:51:28 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls an\ * | grep -v '...........'
03:51:29 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access an *: No such file or directory
03:52:02 <oerjan> shachaf: `learn never makes a key with spaces in, anyway.
03:54:13 <shachaf> oerjan: That's fine, but I thought `? would remove the space.
03:54:20 <shachaf> So I would simultaneously be checking the\ bird and bird
03:54:31 <shachaf> So I thought it was safe to overwrite.
03:55:23 <oerjan> i thought we had some wisdom keys which differ only in an extra "the " but apparently not.
03:55:54 <oerjan> there are for plurals, of course
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04:00:31 <Jafet> excite at nite, but yawn at dawn
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04:51:53 <ais523> 50-language polyglot: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/113426/62131
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07:24:57 <hppavilion[0]> Like, where gravity DOES respect weight, or pulls you cubically rather than squarely
07:25:36 <shachaf> gravity does respect weight hth
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07:29:26 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: ...also, technically it's the other way around
07:29:41 <shachaf> Are you some kind of prescriptivist?
07:31:11 <shachaf> Physical laws are made up to describe the behavior of the world. They don't cause things to happen, they're a description of how things happen.
07:32:04 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Ah. What I'm getting at is you write down rules and a universe where those rules are accurate is simulated
07:32:33 <shachaf> I was talking about real gravity.
07:33:36 <shachaf> There's a thing by Smullyan that I can't find online so I'll link to http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/IsGodTaoist.html instead.
07:33:38 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Basically http://testtubegames.com/gravity.html with slightly fancier components
07:33:55 <shachaf> Oh, I played Velocity Raptor once.
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09:15:58 <Jafet> hppavilion[0]: stable orbits would be harder with cubic gravity (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand's_theorem)
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09:18:00 <hppavilion[0]> rdococ: From what I'm getting, it'd be possible, but you couldn't use any point masses in your models
09:18:40 <hppavilion[0]> I really want to see what the superconic sections look like, but I can't figure out how to intersect a plane with an arbitrary mesh in Octave
09:19:46 <Jafet> there is trivially a circular orbit for any central force
09:21:59 <Jafet> well, you pick a radius and then you pick the velocity that happens to balance out the force
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09:22:11 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ//ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏ
09:22:33 <HackEgo> gen_sys_1.0-1:3/And fungot PMed the universe, Let there be sockets, at let one be on port 6667 for the common folk and one on 6697 for those who desire some basic fucking security: and there were two sockets, and on 6667 was one for the commonfolk and on 6697 was one for those who desired some basic fucking security.
09:23:06 <rdococ> the God in the IsGodTaoist link is, well, pedantic
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09:29:26 <rdococ> r^-84 instantly kills any planet that gets close to the star :p
09:29:52 <rdococ> Or next to another planet
09:30:27 <rdococ> now I'm trying positive exponents (so gravity gets stronger the further away you go).
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09:31:54 <rdococ> now I'm trying -r^2, so it's a negative force with a positive exponent
09:32:18 <rdococ> wait, that won't work :
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09:41:32 <rdococ> I don't get the IsGodTaoist page. Why would not having free will automatically cause you to perform cruel acts?
09:47:20 <rdococ> (Additionally, he could have actually told Adam, "that apple is poison" and he would be more likely to avoid it.)
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10:50:52 <HackEgo> post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze//Post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze is the genre of the Autobahn album "Nagelbett" according to http://thedailywtf.com/articles/Yo-Ho%2c-Yo-Ho%2c-A-Pirates-Life-for-Lee .
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10:51:22 <boily> the fungot school of music.
10:51:23 <fungot> boily: that perosn has a lotta tail recursion could be useful too =d "
10:51:32 <boily> fungot: recursively defined genre?
10:51:32 <fungot> boily: fnord/ fnord/ fnord and be fast any more. i think so, yes
10:52:44 <HackEgo> rainbow//Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
10:56:17 <HackEgo> The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office.
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10:59:47 <boily> rdochelloc. there is no single nightstar, but all of them.
11:00:59 <rdococ> Actually, where I am the daystar is out right now.
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11:07:59 <Jafet> `le/rn nightstar//The Nightstars is an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
11:08:01 <HackEgo> Learned 'nightstar': The Nightstars is an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
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11:08:34 <HackEgo> The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds.
11:08:42 <HackEgo> The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds.
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11:26:31 <lambdabot> Local time for rdococ is Tue Mar 21 11:25:43
11:26:58 <boily> one guess where it comes from.
11:27:10 <rdococ> well, I know where I live, so you guess
11:27:46 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
11:27:54 <rdococ> looks like it's Budapest
11:28:11 <rdococ> wait, budapest is UTC+01:00
11:28:21 <boily> you're four hours from here. Budapest is too far away.
11:29:05 <rdococ> or... I have NST! nightlight saving time!
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11:38:11 <b_jonas> hmm, that sounded much less badass than when Michel Strogoff said it about Ogareff's scar. Apparently context matters.
11:39:08 <rdococ> Actually, I don't have DST. I already have NST, why would I need DST?
11:39:58 <b_jonas> rdococ: are you in Iceland?
11:40:24 <rdococ> I'm not telling you :P
11:40:54 <b_jonas> You must be in iceland if you don't have DST.
11:41:17 <rdococ> But does anywhere have NST?
11:41:41 <rdococ> Okay, I'll give you a hint: I live on Mars.
11:44:30 <int-e> enjoy your 25 hour day
11:44:43 <rdococ> Indeed, I have one extra hour per day.
11:44:49 <rdococ> `le//rn rdococ//rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
11:44:52 <HackEgo> Relearned 'rdococ': rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
11:51:21 <b_jonas> And doesn't Mars only have like an extra 15 minutes or something?
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11:52:06 <b_jonas> hmm, apparently now. they get an extra 40 minutes
11:52:31 <b_jonas> I don't think rdococ is on Mars though. At least part of him must be on Earth. He reacts too fast to be entirely located on Mars.
11:53:06 <rdococ> b_jonas: That's because I've rdocscovered tachyons and tachyonic communication. I have an antitelephone next to my laptop.
11:55:27 <erkin> A tachyon walks into a bar and the bartender says "What's the deal with airline food, am I right?"
11:55:31 <b_jonas> rdococ: an "antitelephone"? is that like a chronophone?
11:55:47 <b_jonas> you know, a machine that lets you send voices to the future
11:56:07 <rdococ> An antitelephone can send to the past.
11:56:09 <erkin> It's a wireless radiotelegraph.
11:56:28 <rdococ> I can tell myself ten seconds ago, "2 + 2 = fish. tell me in 10s.", and he'll know.
11:57:10 <HackEgo> The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
11:57:24 <erkin> I'll tell a funny tachyon joke two minutes ago.
11:57:40 <rdococ> The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up, but rdococ already rdocscovered it in the future past.
11:58:00 <erkin> Isn't future past just past future anyway?
11:58:12 <rdococ> Possibly. Let me get my past self's opinion.
11:58:46 <rdococ> He says that travelling back in time from the future is the past future, and travelling forward in time is the future past.
11:59:28 <b_jonas> rdococ: get your future self's opinion instead. they're usually wiser in hindsight.
12:00:04 <erkin> Alas, both my past and future selves are dumb.
12:00:41 <rdococ> Future me says that "When you change the future, the old future can be called the past future. The future past is similar: when you change the past, the new past is the future past."
12:01:02 <rdococ> "There is also a past past, which is the old past, and the future future, which is the future that someone will change it to in the future."
12:01:29 <erkin> What about the past future of present now?
12:01:39 <rdococ> "The present past is the past as it currently is; the past past is the past as it was before someone time travelled; the future past is the past as it will be when changed by a time traveller in the future."
12:01:46 <rdococ> "Similarly with the present, past and future future."
12:02:43 <rdococ> "The past future of present now is (the future as it was before being changed by a time traveller) in the present. In other words, the past future."
12:05:01 <rdococ> "Anyway, gotta go now in your future, so see ya."
12:05:29 <rdococ> Brb, my antitelephone's ringing.
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13:47:10 <\oren\> "At some point freemasons attempted to influence Russian politics, albeit with very limited success. Grand Master of the lodge, Andrey Bogdanov, even ran for the presidency in 2008 (he came last of four candidates with just 1.3 percent of the vote) and also assumed a high position in the rightist pro-business political party Right Cause."
13:47:16 <\oren\> "Vitaly Milonov, a centrist-conservative lawmaker best known for his campaign targeting “gay propaganda” has proposed to check if Russian freemason lodges comply with the law that restricts political activities of foreign and international groups."
13:49:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51384&oldid=46375 * Malbranche * (-844) /* Cat */ Optimized and simplified cat example program
13:57:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge Unshackled]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51385&oldid=49698 * Malbranche * (-470) New Malbolge cat program does also work in Malbolge Unshackled
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14:51:35 <oerjan> `learn Fnordcore is fungot's favorite music genre.
14:51:35 <fungot> oerjan: last time i tried, but i prefer just to use instead? mathematica? :)
14:51:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'fnordcore': Fnordcore is fungot's favorite music genre.
14:53:09 <oerjan> `` ls -l /usr/bin/from
14:53:10 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 22 Jan 29 2014 /usr/bin/from -> /etc/alternatives/from
14:54:26 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
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14:57:34 <rdococ> What does positronium sound like to you if it was a fictional ore?
14:58:35 <erkin> I read that as "fictional orc"
14:59:06 <rdococ> I was considering, maybe it could be a crystal organ or something.
15:00:10 <erkin> As in the instrument?
15:00:15 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/slashlearn
15:02:17 <rdococ> Nah, the squishy thing that sentient meatbags have.
15:02:27 <rdococ> It could be an instrument too, though.
15:07:17 <oerjan> `fetch bin/msg https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/slashlearn
15:07:22 <HackEgo> 2017-03-21 15:07:16 URL:https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/slashlearn [155/155] -> "bin/msg" [1]
15:07:36 <b_jonas> like this instrument? https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=439
15:08:04 <HackEgo> Usage: `msg <comment>//`<command>
15:08:33 <oerjan> `msg test//`` echo testing; echo ho
15:09:06 <oerjan> now i can give an extra commit comment when appropriate
15:09:56 <b_jonas> couldn't you just do that like ``` command # comment ?
15:10:15 <b_jonas> ``` echo "hello world" # like this
15:11:55 <oerjan> b_jonas: doesn't work with plain `
15:12:16 <oerjan> which means it ruins things like `slwd or `le/rn
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15:13:57 <oerjan> `msg Like this//`learn `msg <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
15:13:59 <HackEgo> Learned '`msg': `msg <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
15:14:35 <HackEgo> 10477:2017-03-21 <oerjän> msg Like this//`learn `msg <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
15:16:17 <shapr> any spoken programming languages?
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15:16:52 <oerjan> . o O ( RLRP, the obvious equivalent to IRP )
15:17:05 <\oren\> shapr: I think there was an effort to form a programming language from lojban
15:19:17 <HackEgo> Usage: `msg <comment>//`<command>
15:19:32 <oerjan> `sled bin/#//s/msg/#/g
15:19:34 <HackEgo> bin/#//sep='//`' \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `# <comment>'"$sep"'<command>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ command="${1#*$sep}" \ "${command%% *}" "${command#* }"
15:19:42 <\oren\> well another mthod would be to create a dialect of say BASIC and replace all symbols with words
15:20:12 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/'`'{msg,#}
15:20:23 <oerjan> `slwd bin/#//s/msg/#/g
15:20:43 <HackEgo> `#//`# <comment>//`<command> is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
15:21:50 <b_jonas> shapr: there was some obscure apl-like that tried to define standard one-syllable English pronunciations for each of the symbols so you can read it in telephone more easily
15:21:52 <oerjan> the hg commands have become so slow :(
15:21:58 <b_jonas> an ascii-based one that is
15:22:17 <\oren\> int main open paren close paren open curly printeff open paren double quote hello comma space world exclamation double quote close paren semicolon close curly
15:23:48 <\oren\> rdococ: hello world in pronounceable C
15:24:31 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone pronounces brainf*'* as braineff
15:24:39 <rdococ> comment pronounceable C is absolute crap
15:25:10 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
15:25:17 * FireFly read brainf*'* as a shell glob (never mind the bare quote)
15:25:34 <\oren\> rdococ itym: slash star pronounceable capital c is absolute crap star slash
15:25:38 <rdococ> I read it as brain eff tiny genitals
15:26:31 <rdococ> brain eff star single quote star
15:26:49 <rdococ> backwards slash oren backwards slash colon heh
15:27:28 * oerjan swats y'all for concentrating more on his typo than his actual question -----###
15:28:22 <\oren\> and then of course you need the syntax for "slash" : double quote the word slash double quote
15:28:34 <rdococ> forwards slash me swats letter y apostrophe all for concentrating more on his typo than his actual question dash dash dash dash dash hash hash hash
15:29:20 <rdococ> and then of course you need the syntax for double quote slash double quote colon the word double the word quote the word the the word word the word slash the word double the word quote
15:29:44 <HackEgo> pronounceable C? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:30:50 <\oren\> ok, I'm working on an implementation now
15:30:53 <rdococ> `le//rn pronounceable C//int main open paren close paren open curly printeff open paren double quote pronounceable capital c is the most verbose esoteric language ever comma god help you if you try to code with it comma especially without newlines period double quote close paren semicolon close curly
15:30:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'pronounceable c': int main open paren close paren open curly printeff open paren double quote pronounceable capital c is the most verbose esoteric language ever comma god help you if you try to code with it comma especially without newlines period double quote close paren semicolon close curly
15:31:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Campfire]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51386&oldid=50821 * Leo * (+2)
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15:33:56 <\oren\> the implementation will be written to convert pronounceable cee to regular C, and will be written in C and then converted to pronounceable cee
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15:40:06 <\oren\> rdococ: it will be a pronounceable cee to regular c converter wirtten in pronouceable cee
15:40:57 <rdococ> what will convert it to regular c to be run?
15:42:00 <rdococ> what humans need is single phonemes for the parentheses.
15:44:55 <rdococ> how will it run itself if there is no existing pronounceable cee implementation?
15:45:19 <oerjan> > fix(('`':).tail.(>>= \c -> case c of '`' -> "``S"; _ -> "`K"++[c])
15:45:21 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
15:45:31 <oerjan> > fix(('`':).tail.(>>= \c -> case c of '`' -> "``S"; _ -> "`K"++[c]))
15:45:33 <lambdabot> "``S``S`KS``S``S`KS``S`KK`KS``S``S`KS``S``S`KS``S`KK`KS``S``S`KS``S`KK`KK``S...
15:46:04 <oerjan> the most unabstracted combinator of all
15:48:46 <oerjan> <rdococ> what humans need is single phonemes for the parentheses. <-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7BXPKyikB0
15:50:57 <\oren\> I will convert it manually the first tiem
15:59:09 <HackEgo> The Nightstars is an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
15:59:27 <oerjan> `slwd nightstar//s/is/are/
15:59:29 <HackEgo> nightstar//The Nightstars are an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
16:00:31 <HackEgo> northern light? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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16:53:06 <shapr> b_jonas: oh, that's interesting
16:53:19 <shapr> I was thinking about trying lojban
16:53:30 <shapr> but I also found http://www.speech.kth.se/~rolf/NGSLT/gslt_papers_2005/quick-speech-recog.pdf
16:53:51 <shapr> That uses Aarne Ranta's Grammatical Framework in Haskell, and I have some experience there already.
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17:15:52 <\oren\> hmm, maybe instead we will use paren, unparen
17:17:07 <\oren\> unquote is actually the same character tho
17:17:56 <b_jonas> \oren\: I prefer open, close, left, right, begin, end, less, greater; but that doesn't work for C++ and similar languages where "begin" and "end" and "open" and "close" occur as an identifier too
17:18:28 <b_jonas> open/close for round parenthesis, left/right for square brackets, begin/end for curly braces, less/greater for angle brackets
17:19:26 <b_jonas> but it gets much better if you use the Hungarian words, both because they're shorter and don't clash with those identifiers: nyit, csuk, bal, jobb, kezd, vég, kisebb, nagyobb.
17:25:41 <rdococ> back slash oren back slash colon space grr
17:25:59 <\oren\> rdococ: no, you use backslash as one word
17:26:36 <rdococ> backslash oren backslash colon space I prefer using the word back the word slash as two words
17:42:15 <b_jonas> "ferocity" is a word? what a crazy word
17:47:45 <\oren\> it's a synonym of forcciousness
17:54:24 <Taneb> Ugh, I'm coming down with a cold
17:59:10 * oerjan is coming out of one, he hopes
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19:40:53 <HackEgo> 1/2:toe//The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang. \ xenon//Xenon is a noble gas element. It has been banned in most countries due to xenophobia. \ semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. \ cigar//A cigar is ei
19:40:57 <HackEgo> 2/2:ther a penis or just a cigar, dependent on Freud's current mood. \ trick//A trick learnt is a trick half forgotten.
19:41:40 <HackEgo> 9925:2016-12-10 <oerjän> learn Xenon is a noble gas element. It has been banned in most countries due to xenophobia.
19:42:39 <HackEgo> hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | xargs
19:43:51 <HackEgo> 8032:2016-05-13 <shachäf> ` mv wisdom/semmelwei{,s}
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19:44:03 <HackEgo> 8032:2016-05-13 <shachäf> ` mv wisdom/semmelwei{,s} \ 8031:2016-05-13 <b_jonäs> learn Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it.
19:44:33 <HackEgo> semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it.
19:48:12 <int-e> hmm the zero-width space I tried to add in order to prevent that didn't make it through :-(
19:49:42 <shachaf> Hmm, or you could use IRC colors.
19:49:46 <shachaf> Since you don't see them anyway.
19:49:53 <int-e> true, since I don't see them anyway ;)
19:50:09 <int-e> shachaf: if you asked nicely I might tell you that it's irssi ;-)
19:50:24 <shachaf> I already thought it was irssi.
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19:50:39 <shachaf> Though I can't remember whether it's because of something you said or because I make baseless assumptions.
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19:51:24 <int-e> I just don't see any reason to give that information to any random bot that asks (though somehow they hardly ever do...)
19:51:55 <int-e> irssi doesn't make overriding TIME so easy :/
19:52:59 <shachaf> apparently your client doesn't respond to CTCP HUG hth
20:18:19 <olsner> Hej Vorpal, vad gör du nuförtiden?
20:19:48 <shapr> talar vi svenska igen? just nu?
20:20:06 <shapr> nu är jag lite trött
20:20:14 <shapr> iaf, en bra tid att tala svenska
20:20:24 <olsner> unless we should english for the benefit of the rest of the channel
20:20:39 <shapr> I can't get pijul to build :-(
20:20:45 <shapr> Does rust count as an esoteric language?
20:21:05 <olsner> probably not, at least it's not intended as one
20:23:48 <Vorpal> olsner: hm? Well I still work on real time C/C++ programming for big mining equipment.
20:23:59 <HackEgo> Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
20:24:31 <shachaf> Vorpal: Do you use a code review tool with hg?
20:24:40 <olsner> oh! sounds greatly boring
20:24:43 <Vorpal> Well not a boring machine technically. It is blast hole drilling.
20:25:23 <Vorpal> shachaf: at work? yes, a proprietary one that is pretty bad IMO. Doesn't integrate that well with anything.
20:25:31 <Vorpal> smartbear something I think the name is
20:26:28 <Vorpal> olsner: 200 metric tons is quite exciting :P
20:27:13 <Vorpal> olsner: even if it only moves (autonomously) at ~5 km/h
20:27:20 <shachaf> "the scow of X" means something like "the worst specimen of X"
20:27:38 <shachaf> But to say that X is scow might just mean that it's not very good.
20:27:42 <Vorpal> Anyway, been thinking about getting back into academia. Would be kind of fun.
20:28:48 <Vorpal> shachaf: CS. I have a bachelor. Been thinking about getting a masters and then maybe continue in academia after that
20:29:21 <shachaf> Do you recommend academia?
20:30:06 <shapr> I was thinking about getting a master's degree also.
20:30:21 <shapr> This map needs more sand. two cubic tons.
20:30:39 <olsner> I have not been thinking about getting any degree yet, should I do that?
20:31:02 <shachaf> shapr: Oh, Alabama is a one-party state as far as the phone recording laws go?
20:32:19 <Vorpal> shachaf: also probably depends on if it is expensive in the country you live in
20:32:28 <Vorpal> As a Swede I'm quite fortunate in that
20:32:29 <shachaf> I live in the United States.
20:32:37 <shachaf> But I guess I could move to Europe?
20:32:39 <Vorpal> Yeah, that would be expensive then
20:32:55 <Vorpal> shachaf: don't think it is the same across EU
20:33:14 <shachaf> As a citizen of one EU country can you get the benefit of another?
20:33:45 <Vorpal> I'm not sure how that works when it comes to academia. No clue at all.
20:34:01 <shapr> I could have had free schooling when I was a Swedish resident.
20:34:09 <shapr> Instead I paid a really large amount of taxes, and then they asked me to leave.
20:34:11 <shachaf> Anyway university in the US is expensive but it's probably not *that* expensive.
20:34:21 <shapr> shachaf: er, actually it is
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20:34:32 <shapr> I'm down to 24k of debt
20:34:42 <shachaf> What about public university?
20:35:32 <shapr> If you get paid to go to school, then it's worth it.
20:35:39 <shapr> Otherwise, it's not worth it in the USA right now.
20:35:50 <shachaf> What if you do it edwardk-style?
20:36:24 <shapr> The kmett transform was a special case, and they made rules against it afterwards. Also, it was still very expensive.
20:36:59 <shachaf> They made rules in Michigan presumably.
20:36:59 <shapr> I don't know if he's paid off his brain mortgage yet.
20:37:15 <shapr> True, those rules may not have migrated elsewhere.
20:37:24 <shapr> but you'd need a personal assistant to do a kmett transform
20:37:36 <shachaf> Anyway I live in Berkeley, right by a big university.
20:37:37 <shapr> Ed did all his homework in the car driving from school to school.
20:37:41 <shachaf> How should I take advantage of that?
20:37:48 <shapr> oh, get an education!
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20:37:58 <shapr> *degrees* cost money, but education is free.
20:38:23 <shachaf> But should I stop working at my job while I do it?
20:38:40 <shapr> Not unless you have a bunch of money saved?
20:38:40 <int-e> then it's no longer free?
20:38:54 <shachaf> The opportunity cost is certainly higher than the cost of attending university.
20:39:07 <shapr> I work across the street from georgia tech ... oh wait, they bought this building last month... I technically work on the georgia tech campus..
20:39:13 <shapr> and I go hang out with the smart people and learn stuff
20:39:15 <shachaf> edwardk once told me something like "can you believe I thought about going to university in terms of the opportunity cost?"
20:39:33 <Vorpal> <shapr> I could have had free schooling when I was a Swedish resident. <-- okay, how did that work?
20:39:43 <Vorpal> And why are you no longer a Swedish resident
20:40:12 <olsner> when moving out, you stop being a resident?
20:40:13 <shapr> Well, I dumped the woman I was engaged to, and that upset her, and then our shared bookkeeper purposefully misfiled my taxes
20:40:37 <shapr> so I thought I couldn't afford to pay my taxes and migrationsverket politely but strongly encouraged me to leave Sweden
20:40:47 <shapr> Oh, I got Swedish immigration law changed twice while I was there
20:41:06 <shapr> Last time I visited migrationsverket, they said "Oh, it's YOU" and pulled out an inch thick folder of papers.
20:41:23 <shapr> He got a master's degree in ... one term?
20:41:28 <Vorpal> Is that a name that should be familiar?
20:41:37 <shapr> probably, he does a pile of cool stuff
20:41:50 <int-e> Vorpal: mostly if you care about Haskell though
20:42:10 <shapr> Anyway, he found one uni that would let him transfer credits from other unis in the area, even if taken at the same time. He then found ... four? unis that he could transfer credit *from*
20:42:13 <Vorpal> even with intentions to get into haskell I have really only scratched the surface of that language
20:42:26 <shapr> So he took the max classes at all those universities, transferred all the credits, and graduated.
20:42:45 <shapr> Vorpal: oh, come to #haskell ! It's a neat place.
20:42:48 <shapr> at least, I think so
20:43:10 <shachaf> I haven't been there in months.
20:43:10 <olsner> hmm, is Edward the new Oleg?
20:43:12 <Vorpal> I idle in way too many channels
20:43:25 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
20:43:33 <shapr> shachaf: what's not good about it?
20:43:37 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
20:44:21 <shapr> shachaf: if you have suggested improvements for #haskell, I'm sure the ops would love to hear about it.
20:46:07 <shachaf> Anyway wasn't I one of the ops?
20:48:33 <shapr> so I guess that means you are also responsible for fixing #haskell if you don't like how it's going?
20:48:50 <shachaf> I fixed it by not being in there anymore.
20:50:17 <olsner> "plobrem sloved" I guess
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21:06:02 <int-e> Hmm, turns out the Semmelweis entry is mostly true. I didn't know.
21:06:28 <shachaf> I think "popularized" might not be true.
21:06:49 <int-e> Well he kind of died trying.
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21:07:31 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans.
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21:09:54 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
21:11:17 <shachaf> You don't speak Norwegian too?
21:11:29 <shapr> somewhat, but didn't you ask me about celery?
21:11:55 <shapr> oh, crazy as celery
21:11:56 <shachaf> I don't know, I don't speak Norwegian.
21:12:00 <shapr> it's a different word in Swedish
21:12:16 <shapr> shachaf: are you aware that's my most common olfactory hallucination?
21:12:23 <shapr> almost every single time.. it's quite frustrating
21:12:44 <shachaf> It's not the scow of vegetables -- that honor is reserved for the bell pepper -- but it's nevertheless scow.
21:12:50 <shachaf> @google "sprø som selleri"
21:17:00 * int-e fetches a bell pepper from the fridge
21:21:53 <hppavilion[1]> According to Wikipedia: "Once authoritatively published, a ghost word occasionally may be copied widely and take a long time to be erased from usage (if it ever does)."
21:22:23 <hppavilion[1]> The issue I have with that is: who exactly is trying to erase it from usage?
21:22:37 <shachaf> there's no such thing as a ghost word hth
21:23:06 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, dictionaries shouldn't *try* to push new words, but if they accidentally do and people start using it, there's no reason to push it out of usage
21:23:20 <shachaf> Ah, I'm disappointed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_word
21:23:32 <shachaf> I was hoping it was a word dictionaries introduced on purpose to avoid plagiarism.
21:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> Especially because, if people use it, it probably has some benefit of being easier to understand or shorter to say or funner sounding.
21:23:53 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Some might do that too, any fictitious word introduced counts.
21:24:11 <shachaf> anyway the real joke was that "ghost word" was a ghost word
21:24:17 <shachaf> like, so self-referential, man, y'know?
21:24:45 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Though, if dictionaries DID do that, it wouldn't really work because US law doesn't let you copyright facts (or, well, claims fictitious or otherwise)
21:25:16 <pikhq_> US law does let you copyright presentations and collections of fact, though.
21:25:43 <pikhq_> Which is to say, if you take someone else's dictionary and just republish it, you've fallen foul of US copyright law.
21:26:23 <shachaf> Is there a simple efficient ordered key-value map data structure?
21:26:59 <pikhq_> Simple, efficient and ordered? Um, my inclination is a skip list.
21:27:17 <fizzie> 'dord' is a great dictionary-related word.
21:27:56 <pikhq_> Fiiine, self-balancing tree with invasive linked list.
21:28:08 <shachaf> Is invasive the same as intrusive?
21:28:26 <shachaf> Why do you need the linked list?
21:28:37 <pikhq_> Because... you don't actually.
21:28:52 <shachaf> OK, but self-balancing trees are usually complicated.
21:28:57 <pikhq_> I'm less good at thinking with a healing hole in my mouth.
21:29:23 <pikhq_> Well, you wanted ordered key-value map and said non-randomized.
21:29:46 <shachaf> Right. Is it too much to ask?
21:30:19 <pikhq_> If it's sufficient for you, you can deterministically balance a skip list as an O(n) operation.
21:31:00 <pikhq_> (or indeed, as part of iterating through said list)
21:31:13 <pikhq_> I suspect that's not happiness-making enough for you though.
21:31:20 <shachaf> In http://stackoverflow.com/a/32261808 edwardk points out that for any given skip list, you only really need to use use a spanning subtree of it.
21:31:37 <shachaf> Can you just not make the rest of the list?
21:31:42 <shachaf> What sort of binary tree do you get?
21:33:49 <shachaf> Anyway I'd be happy with a simple self-balancing tree.
21:34:53 <pikhq_> AA trees are quite simple.
21:36:12 <alercah> pikhq_: what about 9 volt trees
21:36:15 <shachaf> Or maybe you should just use 2-3 trees directly.
21:36:35 <pikhq_> Yep, it's the concept of red-black trees applied to 2-3 trees rather than 2-3-4.
21:36:35 <shachaf> alercah: you're mixing up b-trees with bat-trees hth
21:37:26 <pikhq_> shachaf: I suppose that's an option.
21:37:49 <pikhq_> It makes searching and such a bit more complex, but it doesn't look too bad.
21:38:49 <shachaf> Or maybe just use a full B-tree while you're at it?
21:39:47 <shachaf> Say you have 8B keys and values, and you want to fit each note in a 64B cache lines.
21:42:48 <shachaf> Looks like the Rust collections library has a bunch of B-tree-based data structures.
21:43:50 <shachaf> Where each node has between 5 and 11 children?
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21:52:41 <shachaf> Taneb: I thought you were going to travel to CA sometime?
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21:58:24 <Taneb> shachaf, when I have money
21:58:27 <Taneb> Which is not right now
21:59:45 <boily> Tanelle. you could sell one of your inventions!
21:59:52 <shachaf> Taneb: Hmm, you can save a bunch of money by not attending Compose.
22:00:01 <shachaf> Then spend that money to fly to North America.
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22:00:34 <shachaf> I'll be in NY in ~3 weeks.
22:04:25 <HackEgo> molum//molum is the inverse function of ybden.
22:05:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:06:38 <HackEgo> ybden daintily hides in her den, fostering dark machinations on warfare cutlery.
22:08:02 <shachaf> ybden: i like your website hth
22:08:19 <shachaf> It reminds me of a fictional character though I can't quite place which one.
22:10:43 <boily> helloochaf. ybden has a website?
22:12:15 <boily> I have found the wobsite, I guess...
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22:21:45 <HackEgo> ism//Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism".
22:22:07 <boily> backmanteau? a cape, then?
22:25:04 <ybden> I have more to add, but I will probably be keeping it fairly minimal like that
22:25:49 <ybden> It's one of my favourite games
22:25:56 * ybden somehow guessed shachaf meant this
22:26:10 <shachaf> Well, I mentioned a character from that game above.
22:27:46 <ybden> I do see the similarity there with my website
22:27:53 <ybden> with the things written there
22:27:54 <shachaf> I saw a play by Ibsen a few weeks ago.
22:28:12 <shachaf> Your pronunciation buddy presumably.
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23:05:07 <HackEgo> transformer//A transformer is one who used to trans, but no longer does.
23:05:19 <HackEgo> A translater is one who transes a long time after the fact.
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23:10:12 <hppavilion[1]> Is it wrong to add pronunciation to internet abbreviation slang?
23:11:06 <boily> Zarutellon. what would a translocator be?
23:11:25 <boily> hppavellon[1]. it depends hth hand
23:11:52 <Zarutian> bolly: usually it is contraption in Minecraft that moves players around fast.
23:12:18 <Zarutian> boily: but I could also be a certain locator device ;-Þ
23:14:38 <boily> haven't cubed in quite a while, so I don't know what is a minecraftranslocator...
23:17:55 <hppavilion[1]> [also, wikt doesn't list usage of 'schwa' as a verb]
23:20:36 <olsner> silly wiktionary, everything can be verbed
23:20:46 * boily hellolsners olsner
23:43:16 <hppavilion[1]> Does Unicode have an emoji for the Shocker symbol?
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23:59:55 <HackEgo> 1/2:itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ phnglui//This wisdom existed only to test a command, but then it was deleted. \ zombiecheney//ZombieCheney lives under a bridge. \ french//Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant! \ something//Something is rotten in the state of D
00:00:16 <HackEgo> 9324:2016-10-18 <alercäh> le/rn phnglui/This wisdom existed only to test a command, but then it was deleted. \ 9323:2016-10-18 <hppavilion[1̈]> rw phnglui \ 9322:2016-10-18 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn phnglui/This wisdom exists only to test a command
00:03:23 <boily> I shall keep phnglui, but only as a deleted wisdom.
00:04:14 <HackEgo> 1/1:ist//An ist is an incomplete list. \ luxembourg//Luxembourg is adequate. \ vanila//In a cruel twist of fate, vanila has come to #esoteric in search of wisdom. \ amiga//Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. \ døsthiswork//no
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00:16:41 <Jafet> @ask oerjan <oerjan> `slwd nightstar//s/is/are/ — I think that correction are ungrammatical; for example a wikipedia article has “In astronomy, the Pleiades, or Seven Sisters, is an open star cluster …”
00:18:23 <Jafet> actually, this seems like an article about celebrities, not astronomy: “… Seven Sisters, is an open star cluster containing hot, middle-aged B-type stars …”
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00:45:42 <boily> fizzie: FWAAAAAAAARGHGHRLGLGLGLRHGURHGHGHGHGHGH!
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00:48:25 <fungot> olsner: see how currying the function is a set
00:54:59 <fungot> boily: he's doomed, then.
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01:20:35 <shachaf> oerjan: https://twitter.com/lntel/status/843435246918025217 hth
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02:17:04 <HackEgo> botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release.
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02:38:51 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
02:56:59 <adu> that's good
02:57:19 <adu> hppavilion[1]: my knee is broken
02:57:44 <adu> but I can't take off work because we have interviews all this week
02:58:16 <adu> hppavilion[1]: no, but I'm one of 3 developers, and 2 of them are remote workers, so I have no choice
02:58:55 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Owing the mafia money would be the reason for the broken knee, not the working
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03:03:51 <adu> hppavilion[1]: there was a snow storm (well according to the news, but it turned into an ice and sleet storm), and I ended up shovelling solid ice, hence the injury
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07:37:03 <HackEgo> 1/3:welcome.es//¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALn
07:37:32 <HackEgo> 2/3:et.) \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯//¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°_o)/¯ of urbandictionary \ fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg \ rust//Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell. \ tautology//A tautology is a tautology. Oren
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07:56:47 <hppavilion[1]> "If it takes 5 machines 5 minutes to make 5 widgets, how long would it take 100 machines to make 100 widgets?"
07:57:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.es: not found
07:57:18 <HackEgo> ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
07:57:21 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rienvenido: not found
07:57:29 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords
07:57:53 <hppavilion[1]> OK, how am I supposed to put newlines with mkx again?
07:58:59 <hppavilion[1]> `mkx bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh<new>bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
07:59:19 <HackEgo> bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh< \ >bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
07:59:31 <HackEgo> bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh \ >bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
07:59:34 <HackEgo> bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh \ bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
07:59:45 <HackEgo> generic_user: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wik
08:00:04 <shachaf> I don't think this is necessary.
08:00:34 <izabera> shachaf: pretty much everything is unnecessary in this chan
08:02:40 <shachaf> I know how to win at Double Fanucci.
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08:33:04 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, what's the linguistic name for when words agree... weakly
08:33:57 <hppavilion[1]> When, for example, two pairs of synonymous adjectives exist, but where which you use in a sentence is correlated
08:34:21 <hppavilion[1]> It's not grammatically mandatory, but mixing adjectives up sounds weird
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08:35:26 <hppavilion[1]> You'd say "a black baby and a white baby" or "an African-American baby and a Caucasian baby" normally, but "an African-American baby and a white baby" and "a black baby and a Caucasian baby" sound kind of weird
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09:14:59 <lambdabot> Jafet asked 8h 58m 17s ago: <oerjan> `slwd nightstar//s/is/are/ — I think that correction are ungrammatical; for example a wikipedia article has “In astronomy, the Pleiades, or Seven Sisters, is
09:16:01 <oerjan> @tell Jafet i'll defer to native speakers, if they insist. i vaguely recall there's a british/american split on such things.
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09:16:59 <oerjan> also, it was a bad idea to try to go to bed early, despite being dead tired. i only got half sleep...
09:19:55 <oerjan> the middle or so. first i couldn't sleep for two hours, then i only slept about 4 before i couldn't sleep again.
09:20:57 <oerjan> (the last failure happened because of my stupidly starting to think about math.)
09:22:50 <oerjan> well, a possible PPCG submission, so math/golf.
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09:34:48 <Jafet> is math golf where you have to prove a theorem in as few words as possible
09:35:32 <Jafet> or maybe fewest number of \cites
09:36:21 <shachaf> Jafet: diagram with the fewest number of arrows hth
09:36:21 <Jafet> actually, I might not mind if journals started imposing math golf
09:36:29 <shachaf> http://categories.mta.narkive.com/uMAsFcSg/lambek-s-lemma
09:36:46 <shachaf> Unfortunately that website ruins the formatting.
09:37:35 <HackEgo> Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses.
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09:38:11 <shachaf> `le/rn_append lambek's lemma//It can be proved with as few as five arrows.
09:38:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'lambek's lemma': Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. It can be proved with as few as five arrows.
09:38:38 <oerjan> Jafet: you'd mind if you actually had to _read_ those papers.
09:38:56 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
09:39:06 <HackEgo> Forty means "in a fort-like manner".
09:39:31 <shachaf> Can't I just s/in a//; s/ manner//?
09:39:47 <shachaf> And also the leftover space.
09:40:05 <shachaf> This wisdom has been bothering me for years.
09:40:15 <oerjan> . o O ( but you MAY not *MWAHAHAHA* ok so you may, too. )
09:40:16 <HackEgo> 5023:2014-10-06 <mroman̈_> learn forty means "in a fort-like manner" \ 9532:2016-10-30 <oerjän> slwd forty//s/f/F/;s/$/./
09:40:25 <Jafet> I looked at that diagram with proper formatting and still don't understand it
09:40:34 <shachaf> Do you understand the seven-arrow version?
09:40:48 <Jafet> it would probably help if I understood what lambek's lemma is
09:41:06 <oerjan> shachaf: it's very slightly bothering me too.
09:41:49 <shachaf> Oh, https://www.google.com/search?q=cache:article.gmane.org/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/5260 has proper formatting.
09:42:02 <shachaf> oerjan: What about the video from earlier?
09:42:15 <shachaf> `slwd forty//s/in a //; s/ manner//
09:42:17 <HackEgo> forty//Forty means "fort-like".
09:42:32 <shachaf> That seems just slightly not verbose enough now.
09:42:51 <shachaf> It's pretty good, I watched the whole thing.
09:43:02 <oerjan> `slwd forty//s/fort-like/like a fort/
09:43:04 <HackEgo> forty//Forty means "like a fort".
09:43:19 <shachaf> Jafet: Lambek's lemma says that an initial F-algebra has an inverse
09:44:05 <shachaf> But it's almost 3 and I can hardly remember what's good about it.
09:44:26 <shachaf> I already suspended my computer. Then I remembered that email and thought I'd mention it.
09:45:39 <shachaf> Anyway, pick some endofunctor F : C -> C. An F-algebra is an arrow : FA -> A for some object A.
09:46:43 <shachaf> I guess people would say it's an object along with that arrow. (A : C, FA -> A)
09:47:20 <Jafet> ok, I will attempt to see why it's good
09:47:29 <shachaf> If you have two F-algebras a : FA -> A, b : FB -> B, then an F-algebra homomorphism : a -> b is an arrow f : A -> B such that -- why am I typing this?
09:47:35 <shachaf> Whatever, you can figure it out.
09:48:12 <Jafet> well, do you want to explain category theory at 3am?
09:48:23 <shachaf> No, but I also don't want to sleep.
09:48:27 <shachaf> The point is that the initial F-algebra is also the least fixed point, and the terminal F-coalgebra is the greatest fixed point.
09:48:55 <shachaf> So if you like fixed points and folds and unfolds and things then you'll surely like these initial algebras.
09:49:10 <shachaf> Of course in Haskell the least and greatest fixed point are the same.
09:49:51 <shachaf> But if you pretend your functions are total you can define e.g. newtype Mu f = Mu { forall r. (f r -> r) -> r } and data Nu f = forall x. Nu x (x -> f x)
09:50:04 <shachaf> And then Mu is the least fixed point and Nu is the greatest fixed point?
09:50:22 <Jafet> is an initial algebra like a free algebra?
09:51:36 <Jafet> that seems to be my only impression of initial algebras
09:51:53 <shachaf> I've forgotten what a free algebra is probably.
09:53:13 <shachaf> I think the free F-algebra gives you the free monad.
09:56:36 <shachaf> Anyway the seven-arrow version just has two squares on top of each other.
09:58:32 <Jafet> oh wait, some of the spaces in the original diagram have been squashed as well
09:58:55 <Jafet> ok, this looks a lot less confusing
10:00:45 <shachaf> It's a square with an arrow going down-and-right from the bottom-right corner.
10:02:28 <HackEgo> fizzie: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
10:03:55 <shachaf> Maybe you can bring me some lakkalikööri?
10:05:30 <fizzie> I'm not sure I have either. Might have.
10:05:53 <fizzie> They weren't selling cloudberry jam in a small enough jar that I could've gotten through it during the visit, which was a bit of a scow.
10:07:14 <shachaf> But you could have gone to Lapland and picked your own cloudberries.
10:07:47 <fizzie> I don't think they're in season now.
10:08:10 <fizzie> From mid-July to early August, apparently.
10:09:11 <shachaf> Hmm, when I visited Finland about 10 years ago it was in the summer.
10:09:18 <shachaf> It was 30 degrees in Helsinki.
10:09:36 <shachaf> We went to visit some friends or relations and they had a jar of homemade cloudberry jam.
10:09:45 <shachaf> They'd picked the cloudberries themselves in Lapland.
10:10:06 <shachaf> Another thing I ate at the same place was a wild strawberry we found.
10:10:27 <shachaf> I think it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria_vesca
10:11:11 <fizzie> Ahomansikka is what we call it. They're indeed p. good.
10:12:14 <shachaf> Much better than, uh, puutarhamansikka
10:15:40 <fizzie> The blueberry/bilberry confusion is a little confusing.
10:19:22 <fizzie> Well, I mean, you'd expect blåbær = blueberry, but it's not really.
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10:26:31 <shachaf> i'd expect blåbær = blue bear hth
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10:30:02 <lambdabot> Plugin `search' failed with: connect: does not exist (No route to host)
10:32:02 <Jafet> I'd expect some salary
10:32:18 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 16m 16s ago: i'll defer to native speakers, if they insist. i vaguely recall there's a british/american split on such things.
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10:36:55 <Jafet> huh, the anglophone community is/are indeed split on this
10:38:34 <Jafet> I'm not sure if “Seven Sisters” is a collective noun, though
10:39:14 <boily> Jafellot. eeeeh, it's plural, no?
10:39:57 <Jafet> I think it's not, are they?
10:43:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge Unshackled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51387&oldid=51385 * Malbranche * (+122) /* External resources */ Added: Generator for text printing Malbolge Unshackled programs
10:48:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 221039Z 31017G24KT 15SM SCT065 OVC090 M11/M19 A3011 RMK SC3AC5 PRESRR SLP201
10:49:26 <Taneb> Jafet, I'd say "Seven Sisters is part of London"
10:56:59 <fizzie> Taneb: I thought they were a group of chalk cliffs down south.
10:57:29 <fizzie> I know Seven Dials is in London.
10:57:46 <Taneb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters,_London
10:57:50 <Taneb> Possibly a different Seven Sisters
10:58:08 <fizzie> Always seven there are, a master and an apprentice.
11:05:28 <boily> Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone.
11:05:45 <boily> olsner: hellolsner. are you still doomed?
11:09:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge Unshackled]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51388&oldid=51387 * Malbranche * (+11) /* Truth-machine */ corrected link
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11:39:49 <oerjan> `le/rn schwa//To schwa is to reduce one or more vowels in a word. Example: "He usually pronounces the names of Indian dishes well, except he always schwas 'Tikka'."
11:39:51 <HackEgo> Learned 'schwa': To schwa is to reduce one or more vowels in a word. Example: "He usually pronounces the names of Indian dishes well, except he always schwas 'Tikka'."
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11:50:56 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> oerjan: https://twitter.com/lntel/status/843435246918025217 hth <-- i was laughing, now i'm calm but my left side hurts. although it was doing that already. hth.
11:55:36 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> IS there even a way? <-- no hth
11:56:27 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] however, you don't need the #! line for sh.
11:57:22 <oerjan> hm technically that may only be true when the command is run from a shell, isn't it...
11:57:38 <oerjan> `` sh -c 'echo -e "test"'
11:57:48 <oerjan> `` bash -c 'echo -e "test"'
11:58:06 <oerjan> `mkx test//echo -e "test"
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11:59:18 <oerjan> oh well, it's not really hurt yet.
12:00:12 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
12:00:16 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
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12:25:23 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
12:26:14 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors.
12:27:07 <oerjan> `bienvenido nickofmaximuml
12:27:08 <HackEgo> nickofmaximuml: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
12:28:02 <oerjan> `bienvenido nickofmaximumlen
12:28:03 <HackEgo> nickofmaximumlen: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
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15:34:45 <\oren\> char star unquote equals quote quote unquote semicolon
15:44:57 <\oren\> hash include space angle s t d i o dot h unangle newline int main paren void unparen curly printf paren quote hello comma space world exclamation unquote unparen semicolon newline return zero semicolon uncurly
15:50:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: what? you put no newline before or after the open curly of the function, but you put one between statements?
15:50:57 <b_jonas> return result}nextfunction{start
15:57:06 <\oren\> because I distinguished quote and unquote you can put quotes in yo quotes so you can quote while you quote
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16:11:33 <rdococ> oh, my antitelephone's ringing again
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16:53:02 <int-e> . o O ( RSA is a kind of two factor authentication. )
16:53:49 <int-e> (I know it's not for authentication but it's the only way to make the pun work.)
16:53:56 <rdococ> . o . o O o O ( DNA encryption )
16:56:53 <APic> You cannot solve all Cross-Dependencies of Life
16:59:56 <APic> Yes, and LSD is a Diaethylamide
17:01:25 <APic> Sounds like the Solution to all Problems. 😎
17:01:38 <APic> Probably we live in that one right now. 😉
17:09:29 <HackEgo> U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ UTF-8: 49 UTF-16BE: 0049 Decimal: I \ I (i) \ Lowercase: U+0069 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+031D COMBINING UP TACK BELOW \ UTF-8: cc 9d UTF-16BE: 031d Decimal: ̝ \ ̝ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 220 (Below) \ \ U
17:09:56 <\oren\> I really need to increase support of combining characters in my font
17:10:03 <HackEgo> U+24B6 CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A \ UTF-8: e2 92 b6 UTF-16BE: 24b6 Decimal: Ⓐ \ Ⓐ (ⓐ) \ Lowercase: U+24D0 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <circle> 0041 \ \ U+24B6 CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A \ UTF-8: e2 92 b6 UTF-16BE: 24b6 Decimal: Ⓐ \ Ⓐ (ⓐ) \ Lowercase: U+24D0 \ Category: S
17:11:04 <\oren\> `` unicode I̝̪͓͔ | sed s/[^A-Z ]//g
17:11:05 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 7: unterminated `s' command \ close failed in file object destructor: \ sys.excepthook is missing \ lost sys.stderr
17:11:15 <\oren\> `` unicode I̝̪͓͔ | sed 's/[^A-Z ]//g'
17:11:17 <HackEgo> U LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ UTF UTFBE D \ I \ L U \ C L L U \ B L LR \ \ UD COMBINING UP TACK BELOW \ UTF UTFBE D \ \ C M M NS \ B NSM NS M \ C B \ \ UA COMBINING BRIDGE BELOW \ UTF UTFBE D \ \ C M M NS \ B NSM NS M \ C B \ \ U COMBINING X BELOW \ UTF UTFBE D \ \ C M M NS \ B NSM NS M \ C B \ \ U COMBINING LEFT A
17:12:22 <\oren\> `` unicode I̝̪͓͔ | awk 'NR % 6 == 0'
17:12:23 <HackEgo> Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ ͓ \ UTF-8: cd 94 UTF-16BE: 0354 Decimal: ͔
17:12:32 <\oren\> `` unicode I̝̪͓͔ | awk 'NR % 6 == 1'
17:12:33 <HackEgo> U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ \ Combining: 220 (Below) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ ͔
17:12:49 <\oren\> `` unicode I̝̪͓͔ | awk 'NR % 7 == 1'
17:12:50 <HackEgo> U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ U+031D COMBINING UP TACK BELOW \ U+032A COMBINING BRIDGE BELOW \ U+0353 COMBINING X BELOW \ U+0354 COMBINING LEFT ARROWHEAD BELOW
17:13:42 <HackEgo> U+1F64C PERSON RAISING BOTH HANDS IN CELEBRATION \ UTF-8: f0 9f 99 8c UTF-16BE: d83dde4c Decimal: 🙌 \ 🙌 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
17:16:27 <\oren\> I just see two hands, no "person"
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17:22:22 <HackEgo> U+1F554 CLOCK FACE FIVE OCLOCK \ UTF-8: f0 9f 95 94 UTF-16BE: d83ddd54 Decimal: 🕔 \ 🕔 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
17:27:57 <HackEgo> U+1F52B PISTOL \ UTF-8: f0 9f 94 ab UTF-16BE: d83ddd2b Decimal: 🔫 \ 🔫 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
17:32:23 <olsner> @ask boily have I been doomed?
17:37:46 <olsner> ah, it was fungot who called me doomed
17:37:46 <fungot> olsner: i guess i have to read through that a little. i kept looking, forcing myself not to
17:38:17 <olsner> I don't think fungot has damnation privileges on me
17:38:17 <fungot> olsner: it's inspired by brainfuck and redcode, i believe. ( it is).
17:38:46 <fungot> rdococ: then i'd miss the point, fnord. i bet you can't guess how high my opinion is invalid.
17:39:06 <rdococ> fungot construct. fungot (x > 3) { fnord(); }
17:39:06 <fungot> rdococ: you seem to be
17:51:24 <\oren\> why is pistol a water gun?
17:52:03 <\oren\> oh. because apple. fuck apple
17:53:25 <\oren\> ok, and on LG it's a semiautomatic handgun, while everyone else except apple drew a revolver
18:13:44 <\oren\> http://emojipedia.org/syringe/ <-- and noone can agree whther the syringe contains blood or autism juice
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18:43:16 <\oren\> 3 people killed in terror at the heart of england, including a passerby and a policeman
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19:08:24 <hppavilion[1]> What would we estimate is the surface area of a cut emerald on the larger side?
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19:31:15 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: depends how big the emerald is an what cut
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20:05:00 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8h 14m 4s ago: <shachaf> oerjan: https://twitter.com/lntel/status/843435246918025217 hth <-- i was laughing, now i'm calm but my left side hurts. although it was doing that already. hth.
20:09:03 <int-e> uh what am I missing there
20:09:52 <shachaf> I don't think there's any hidden layer of meaning to it.
20:13:02 <int-e> shachaf: well, apparently what I'm missing is that it's a video.
20:16:36 <int-e> what happened to overlaying a screencapture with a play button, I wonder
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20:20:56 <int-e> okay, I laughed :)
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20:34:56 <\oren\> also, fun times, the RT article on the terror incident includes itself in a iframe
20:34:59 <\oren\> https://www.rt.com/uk/381771-gunfire-loud-bangs-parliament/
20:35:02 <\oren\> recursive iframs slow chrome to a crawl
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21:49:01 <HackEgo> marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
21:49:06 <lambdabot> olsner asked 4h 16m 42s ago: have I been doomed?
21:50:12 <boily> olsner: <fungot> boily: he's doomed, then ← I believe so.
21:50:12 <fungot> boily: that is good, but seems you're doing something like keeping old positions in a line in my weblog about cheering up?
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22:25:49 <olsner> boily: I concluded that fungot had no authority to make me doomed
22:25:49 <fungot> olsner: well, a right hook at most an extension of smalltalk over .net isn't secure anyways, or because the interpreter was complaining about css :)
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22:32:34 <boily> hellolsner. how dare you not heed the Wisdom of our Lord Fungot the Doomsayer?
22:32:58 <boily> fungot: hail. (the ice kind, for it is good in a gin tonic.)
22:32:59 <fungot> boily: the pattern matching on that list somewhere, but i have never tried it on an occasional basis...
22:33:37 <boily> fungot: you should try http://subversifs.ca/lessubversifs/piger_henricus_gin.php?lang=fr . very tasty.
22:33:38 <fungot> boily: what is chandler?: java.lang.nullpointerexception: solution variable is null and no solution evaluate to false, too
22:33:40 <olsner> I don't know how I dare, I just do
22:34:04 <boily> it don't be like it is, but it do.
22:34:24 <shachaf> Maybe fungot should be restricted to one line per use.
22:34:24 <fungot> shachaf: i know, i'm totally a beginner, i suggest. i've just read the r5rs scheme standard completely."? me, pyrotechno?
22:34:31 <olsner> I don't be like I is, but I do.
22:34:54 <boily> helloochaf. fungot.
22:34:54 <fungot> boily: sorry for that question. i don't think
22:35:01 <fungot> boily: unless you mean " you are conversational skills need work." says someone about my short story. i thought i want to
22:35:04 <fungot> boily: is it just me, or else terry pratchett.
22:35:09 <fungot> boily: i'm repeating myself, so they wouldn't need protection against searches. it just seems that these ' might be' and ' fnord'. you can't pass a function
22:35:12 <olsner> shachaf: per use? it's exactly one line per use, isn't it?
22:35:23 <shachaf> olsner: There's a limit on the same user using fungot multiple times.
22:35:24 <fungot> shachaf: i'm right there with you...
22:35:36 <fungot> olsner: oh good it's alive now however, come to think of something
22:35:38 <fungot> olsner: pretty advanced gps receivers
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22:53:19 <hppavilion[1]> Applying computational complexity theory to hypothetical (impossible) machines seems interesting
22:54:24 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if I ascend outside reality and have a computer that can literally run forever, and will complete after infinite time (but WILL complete), how much would it make my head hurt?
23:08:28 <olsner> the bricks will find your brain no matter how far outside reality you run
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23:24:18 <HackEgo> Brains are just receptacles for bricks.
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23:39:32 <Jafet> fungot is a master of one-liners
23:39:33 <fungot> Jafet: i am not the only thing i guess :) i didn't really debug, just checked with a run-time computation, but that
23:46:43 <boily> fungot is sentient.
23:46:43 <fungot> boily: they always score 0).) there is a soap implementation for plt.
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00:32:44 <HackEgo> tautology//A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them.
00:35:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:kayayaya//Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. \ augur//augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist. \ pumping lemma//noooooodl's pumping lemma for wisdom entries states that for any sufficiently long valid wisdom entry, there exists a letter that can be repeated any number of times. \ latin//LATINA EST SVBLIMISSIMA
00:35:31 <HackEgo> 2/2:LINGVA MVNDI \ bardsworthlist//bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webcomic. http://www.bardsworth.com/
00:35:32 <boily> \oren\: he\\oren\. could you please add 蜂?
00:35:52 <HackEgo> nooooooooodl's pumping lemma for wisdom entries states that for any sufficiently long valid wisdom entry, there exists a letter that can be repeated any number of times.
00:37:06 <shachaf> fizzie: I was going to get a .fi domain that expired a month ago and had "available:" date today.
00:37:12 <shachaf> But someone else got it first. :-(
00:38:03 <oerjan> . o O ( robot domain traders )
00:38:14 <shachaf> Until a few seconds ago I thought it was renewed by the person who had it before.
00:38:47 <shachaf> But now I see it was registered by someone else.
00:40:11 <boily> why do you want that domain in particular?
00:41:18 <shachaf> It's pretty good, isn't it?
00:41:59 * boily fails to link "shachaf" and "vh" together
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01:01:59 <Jafet> high-frequency domain trading?
01:28:45 <HackEgo> prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
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02:40:33 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
02:40:41 <zemhill___> zgrepc: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
02:43:30 <zgrepc> Hm. I'd try out bfjoust, but it seems that at the moment, I'm unable to comprehend ideas.
03:19:58 <zgrepc> ^python3 print('What does fungot do?')
03:20:42 <zgrepc> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
03:21:14 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: transverse
03:21:23 <zgrepc> I guess that wisdom should be updated.
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04:03:52 <Sgeo> Well, I was incredibly specific in crediting #esoteric with finding a bug 7 years ago
04:04:22 <Sgeo> "items[i] = items[i + i]; // This line drove me bonkers (it's supposed to be i + 1). Thanks to pound-esoteric peeps for finding it!
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04:31:14 <hppavilion[1]> (Annals of the Fine Arts #15 under Ode on a Grecian Urn; John Keats et al., 1989)
04:36:17 <hppavilion[1]> Proposition: Some truths are inconvenient (Proof: Entire planet; proof by construction; Everyone, ~1760-present; First publication: Gore 2006)
04:36:33 <hppavilion[1]> Conclusion: Beautiful things are sometimes inconvenient.
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06:28:13 <hppavilion[1]> My dad works in a hospital laboratory, which results in really strange fatherly advice
06:28:28 <hppavilion[1]> exempli gratia "You can treat a transfusion reaction; you can't treat death."
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09:08:00 <shachaf> Taneb: Trains have roots? Are they functions?
09:09:46 <Taneb> shachaf, nah, plants
09:16:31 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't realize you mistyped.
09:16:38 <shachaf> I thought it was a fancy trains word I didn't know.
09:17:00 <shachaf> Like a central station or a backbone route or something.
09:17:25 <Taneb> I tend to think phonetically
09:17:34 <Taneb> So I often mistype homophones
09:17:43 <shachaf> I think maybe I'd've pronounced it like "out".
09:17:48 <shachaf> But actually I have no idea.
09:21:55 <shachaf> Is there a word for "the thing in parentheses"?
09:22:38 <shachaf> You might make some statement and then clarify it in parentheses (like this, but in a way that changes the meaning of the sentence somewhat).
09:25:49 <Taneb> And yeah, route sounding like root is a British thing
09:25:49 <shachaf> "That's exactly the method," the Bellman bold
09:25:50 <shachaf> In a hasty parenthesis cried,
09:25:50 <shachaf> "That's exactly the way I have always been told
09:25:51 <shachaf> That the capture of Snarks should be tried!")
09:26:16 <Taneb> I know the US and Australia pronounce it to rhyme with out
09:26:23 <shachaf> I looked it up, and apparently it's complicated in the US, varying by whether it's referred to as a noun or verb.
09:26:46 <shachaf> But I'm a simple English speaker who doesn't understand subtle distinctions.
09:28:55 <Taneb> Dog on keyboard sorry
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10:38:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 231000Z 28009KT 15SM BKN095 M10/M20 A3049 RMK AC6 SLP329
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11:16:37 <b_jonas_> I just got phishing spam in the name of a bank where I don't even have an account or anything.
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11:17:56 <b_jonas> Taneb: isn't the trick with "route" is that "router" is pronounced differently by informaticians (when it means an electronic device that sends network packets in the right direction) and woodworkers (where it means some sort of power tool)?
11:18:42 <b_jonas> shachaf: "Is there a word for "the thing in parentheses"?" => a remark
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11:26:19 <Taneb> b_jonas, I don't know, but I do pronounce the electronic device meaning different to my Australian cousin
11:33:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: that's also possible
11:34:01 <b_jonas> I'm really puzzled by why the computer and the woodworking meaning have different pronunciations though
11:35:07 <b_jonas> ah! apparently the woodworking meaning doesn't derive from "route", but from a more obscure English word "rout", which is why the pronunciations differ
11:37:12 <b_jonas> and apparently "route" (and the computer "router") is pronounced as /ru:t/ or /raUt/ depending on dialect, whereas "router" in woodworking is always /raUt/, and "root" (of a plant) is always /ru:t/.
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12:59:46 <lynn> shachaf: Surprisingly, "a parenthesis": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parenthesis
13:00:19 <lynn> oh, that came up later
13:00:55 <lynn> it's so confusing though? I didn't know until I looked it up just now. apparently parentheses are statements delemited by parentheses #whoa
13:23:09 <b_jonas> How come there's no living weapon that gives infect?
13:54:57 <b_jonas> wait.... phased out is a status now?
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15:51:21 <rdococ> I've always pronounced it /ræUtə/
15:51:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51389&oldid=47341 * Qwertyu63 * (+60) Cleanup and Expansion
15:51:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51390&oldid=51389 * Qwertyu63 * (+6)
15:52:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51391&oldid=51390 * Qwertyu63 * (+14)
15:54:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51392 * Rdococ * (+141) /* 12 or 24 variables? */ new section
15:54:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Qwertyu63 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Emoji-gramming.png]]": Replaced two icons with better ones; added another 12 variables to use.
15:57:19 <\oren\> hmm.... [^-^] is a funny regex
15:57:40 <b_jonas> rdococ: /r{Ut@/? seriously? that's strange
16:02:04 <rdococ> what is a fish's favourite video game?
16:02:18 <rdococ> cod. no wonder so many people eat fish :/
16:06:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51394&oldid=51392 * Qwertyu63 * (+193) /* 12 or 24 variables? */
16:06:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51395&oldid=51394 * Qwertyu63 * (+0)
16:08:17 <rdococ> My cache doesn't usually give me any problems...
16:08:25 <rdococ> also it does say 24 now
16:12:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51396&oldid=47286 * Qwertyu63 * (-1780) Replaced content with "Writer and implementer of [[Stack Up]]. Writer of [[Set]]."
16:12:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51397&oldid=51396 * Qwertyu63 * (+19)
16:20:42 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/pronounceable_cee.c.htm
16:20:46 <\oren\> what do you think of this
16:24:34 <b_jonas> \oren\: seriously? big copy-pasted cascade of else-if bodies, all alike? are you trying to program like a youngster who doesn't understand why copy-paste code is bad and how you can use functions and tables and other structured programming practices to avoid it?
16:26:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, the part where you write { if(context == CODE) stmt0 if (context == STRING) stmt1 } is a bit distracting. are those supposed to be the only options? if so, why not just put an else instead of a second if?
16:26:23 <b_jonas> but the heavy copy-paste code bothers me more
16:28:25 <\oren\> you can't use switch case here because they keys are strings
16:29:30 <\oren\> if it was VB obviously I would use swich case, but C is limited
16:30:36 <shachaf> I don't think b_jonas was suggesting switch
16:30:36 <Jafet> <b_jonas> seriously? — well, I doubt it
16:30:46 <\oren\> the reason why you need the code and string part is that I want
16:31:06 <\oren\> to be int main( with a space after int
16:31:15 <\oren\> but inside a string there's no need
16:32:44 <shachaf> the traditional phrase is "do you like this?", not "what do you think of this"
16:33:09 <\oren\> also quote oren space said space quote hello quote unquote
16:33:17 <b_jonas> shachaf: I thought the traditional phrase is "RFC"
16:33:26 <\oren\> will eb "oren said \"hello\""
16:35:27 <Jafet> b_jonas: that's old hat, the important thing these days is the like
16:35:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: how do you write mixed case identifiers, such as _Exit, _Complex?
16:36:04 <\oren\> underscore capital e x i t
16:36:55 <\oren\> most words don't insert an autospace, it only applies to things that typically have an identifier after them
16:36:57 <rdococ> and you can't use <g>, you have to replace it with <the letter jee>
16:37:22 <\oren\> such as float, double, int, etc
16:37:46 <rdococ> also, you can't use numeral digits
16:38:00 <rdococ> int x equals three semicolon
16:38:38 <rdococ> backslash oren backslash colon space correct
16:38:47 <\oren\> ideally I'd like it to support three hundred instead of three zero zero but for now...
16:38:52 <Jafet> at this point we might observe that none of C's keywords are NATO phonetic letters
16:39:24 <rdococ> so we need a dialect of C where all keywords are NATO phonetic letters
16:39:43 <rdococ> well, or greek letters.
16:40:14 <rdococ> unless that letter is a consonant
16:42:17 <\oren\> hmm I guess it would be more efficient to use a sorted table and bsearch
16:43:08 <\oren\> for anything that doesn't have special behaviour at any rate
16:44:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: technically, "goto" is also usually followed by an identifier
16:46:15 <\oren\> I'll use a table of name->symbol mappings and another table of just words that need a space
16:47:35 <b_jonas> (also "struct", "union", "enum", "auto", "static", "register", "extern", "volatile", "unsigned", and often "case" and "return" are too; but "include" is rarely followed by an identifer)
16:48:51 <b_jonas> (wait, is "volatile" one of the original edition keywords?)
16:48:59 <b_jonas> (I don't remember the history)
16:50:55 <b_jonas> (meh, close enough, you have the c89 keywords "const" and "void" anyway)
16:51:19 <b_jonas> (though if you wanted all c89 keywords, then "signed" counts too)
16:54:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `unicode: not found
16:54:39 <HackEgo> U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT \ UTF-8: c2 b4 UTF-16BE: 00b4 Decimal: ´ \ ´ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Decomposition: <compat> 0020 0301
16:55:11 <HackEgo> U+0027 APOSTROPHE \ UTF-8: 27 UTF-16BE: 0027 Decimal: ' \ ' \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
17:07:51 <\oren\> I've changed it to use a table, qsort, and bearch
17:15:00 <b_jonas> what was the url? ... http://orenwatson.be/pronounceable_cee.c.htm
17:16:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: that looks better, though you could also use a table (sorted or not) for the keywords
17:18:04 <shachaf> You could also improve it by using a readable typeface like Courier.
17:18:17 <\oren\> b_jonas: fixed that too now
17:18:46 <\oren\> shachaf: screw you, courier is crap and don't support all mai nice wingdings
17:19:37 <b_jonas> \oren\: how do you write an apostrophe? and I'm a bit worried about the magic double quote. it could make it too hard to use C++ style raw string literals, if they ever get accepted to C, or if you use this thing to write C++.
17:20:43 <b_jonas> ah! it is there, it's just that the symbols are in a strange orer
17:21:11 <b_jonas> though I think you have to dictate '"' as apostrophe backslash x two two apostrophe
17:21:29 <b_jonas> because apostrophe quote apostrophe won't work, nor will apostrophe unquote apostrophe
17:23:04 <\oren\> maybe I'll just allow to use unquote
17:23:06 <b_jonas> and please don't add magic apostrophes in such a way that it makes it impossible to use C++-style 1'000 integer literals
17:23:30 <b_jonas> why does quote have to be special in that it's backspaced in first place?
17:25:03 <\oren\> well i need to distinguish between autospaced and non-autospaced contexts right?
17:26:33 <\oren\> hmmm or, I suppose I could autospace always and you can suppress it with word
17:26:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: if you want that, then keep "quote" and "unquote" special in that they change to non-autospaced and autospaced context, but still make "quote" never emit a backslash
17:27:42 <\oren\> well... but c keywords rarely occur in strings anyway?
17:28:02 <\oren\> so jsut if you don't want a space after int you do word int
17:28:31 <b_jonas> \oren\: or just dictate it as i n t
17:28:52 <\oren\> right. there's no real need for cotext beyond word and capital
17:29:22 <b_jonas> and maybe make "oh" a synonym for "zero"
17:29:32 <b_jonas> no wait, that doesn't work
17:29:38 <b_jonas> because you guys pronounce "oh" the same as "o"
17:31:34 <b_jonas> you need to type by letters anyway if you want to enter, say, int32_t
17:31:42 <b_jonas> to avoid the space after int
17:31:56 <b_jonas> i n t three two underscore t
17:37:21 <rdococ> letter i letter n letter t number three number two underscore letter t
17:39:50 <\oren\> rdococ: grumpy_cat_NO.jpg
17:58:52 <quintopia> b_jonas: well you could just add int32_t to your plover dictionary, then assign it a pronounceable stroke
17:59:21 <b_jonas> what's a plover, apart from a bird?
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18:33:06 <shachaf> FireFly: The real question is what a corange is.
18:33:14 <shachaf> Is it a domain or a coimage?
18:36:37 <rdococ> Clearly, a corange is a function whose range is equal to its cofunction.
18:37:04 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
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18:42:36 <rdococ> we have conmen, but do we have nmen?
18:43:07 <rdococ> You can have a compound, but can you have an mpound?
18:47:07 <hppavilion[1]> In German Uno, you should replace the word "Uno" with a word from some other foreign language
19:13:26 <quintopia> do germans hate spaniards or something?
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19:39:06 <shapr> quintopia: send me a resume! do you have my email address?
19:48:37 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( LaTeX \pagenumbering{arabic} should have a variant \pagenumbering[base]{arabic} to number pages in bases other than 10 )
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 53m 4s ago: <hppavilion[1]> IS there even a way? <-- no hth
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 52m 14s ago: however, you don't need the #! line for sh.
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 22m 26s ago: also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors.
19:49:31 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan <oerjan (via lambdabot)> also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors. <-- Yeah, I figured that out
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19:54:26 <erkin> what's the difference
19:55:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome-es: not found
19:55:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.es: not found
19:55:34 <HackEgo> ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
19:55:48 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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20:10:16 <HackEgo> welocome.en_CA? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:10:34 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.)
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20:17:12 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： <http://esolangs.org/>。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
20:27:29 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; echo welcome.*
20:27:31 <HackEgo> welcome.bork welcome.de welcome.eo welcome.es welcome.fi welcome.fr welcome.is welcome.ja welcome.nb welcome.nl welcome.sv welcome.tr
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20:47:52 <\oren\> what. why URL country codes"?
20:49:02 <erkin> Internet habit, I'd assume.
20:49:15 <erkin> We often talk like "in .ru it's always blah blah"
20:49:34 <HackEgo> Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: <http://isulungs.oorg/>. (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon IFnet oor DELnet.)
20:49:46 <erkin> Needs møre møøse jøkes
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21:30:43 <FireFly> a møøse once bit mi sister
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22:03:44 <\oren\> well at least now I have two long-running thingies to watch
22:03:58 <\oren\> build/test processes that is
22:04:17 <\oren\> so things are looking up!
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22:30:58 <pikhq_> CO's quite fine, and no CO poisoning.
22:31:01 <fizzie> Grumble frumble Debian netinst doesn't seem to support a floppy drive, that's just odd.
22:31:12 <pikhq_> I have a CO detector, and my apartment doesn't have gas heating.
22:31:21 <pikhq_> Though, I'm next to the boiler room, so...
22:32:20 <shachaf> What if my CO detector is broken and I'm getting CO poisoning all the time?
22:33:18 <int-e> fizzie: let me guess it's too new and therefore only supported in Debian unstable...
22:33:40 <pikhq_> CO poisoning tends to be fairly obvious.
22:33:56 <pikhq_> I should probably dig for my weather radio though.
22:34:00 <int-e> (I'm actually a Debian user but this joke was hanging too low, it had to be plucked.)
22:34:47 <shachaf> The weather has been volatile around here.
22:34:49 <lambdabot> KOAK 232153Z 28008KT 10SM FEW030 FEW180 16/07 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP231 T01610072
22:35:37 <lambdabot> KAFF 232158Z AUTO 24013G19KT 10SM CLR 20/M13 A2959 RMK AO2 PK WND 21026/37 SLP972 T01961127
22:35:51 <lambdabot> KPHX 232151Z 26018G24KT 10SM SCT070 BKN100 BKN250 22/02 A2996 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE SLP135 VIRGA SE-S T02170017
22:36:18 <pikhq_> Tomorrow we're looking at a possible blizzard.
22:37:15 <fizzie> int-e: It's odd, I believe you can still even *boot* the thing from a pair of floppies.
22:37:16 <pikhq_> Right now we're on alert for high fire risk.
22:37:28 <fizzie> int-e: The drive works fine (I could even boot from some leftover Linux 2.1.x floppies), but if I boot from a Debian netinst USB stick there's no sign of the floppy drive anywhere.
22:38:04 <fizzie> I'm trying to smuggle in the floppy.ko file from the full-fledged jessie linux-image-* package in the hopes that I could just load it.
22:38:58 <int-e> Just burn a CD instead.
22:41:36 <int-e> You know this... But that was a really stupid thing to say about floppies... those things tended to get scratched far too often. So copying it would be the very first thing you'd do.
22:42:22 <shachaf> I doubt people who sold you floppies minded too much?
22:42:34 <fizzie> Amazing, it actually worked.
22:42:42 <int-e> Oh, the BSA still exists, though they somehow don't stress the B anymore.
22:42:52 <pikhq_> I believe that thing was from the era of the 3.25" floppies, which don't get damaged that easily.
22:43:01 <pikhq_> (still fragile, but hey)
22:43:28 <int-e> I don't recall any 3.25" disks ;-)
22:43:34 <shachaf> Floppy Among the more provocative approaches BSA has taken is the Bust Your Boss! campaign that has appeared on billboards, printed publications and on the Internet with the following suggestion: "Is your current or former employer using pirated software in their office? Hit 'em where it really hurts - report their illegal software use today.
22:43:45 <shachaf> int-e: They were 3.25" when I was done with them.
22:43:52 <pikhq_> Though, there weren't any 3.5" either.
22:44:10 <shachaf> I think I cut floppy disks open and made sunglasses out of them for a costume.
22:45:00 <shachaf> Those things were too good.
22:46:04 <int-e> pikhq_: well, when I was in high school, there were many floppy disk drives used by too many careless people... basically I had floppies scratched every week. which led me to use cheap floppies... which turned out to be unreliable ;)
22:46:23 <int-e> I really don't miss those days at all.
22:46:35 <int-e> Well, not for the floppies anyway.
22:47:05 <shachaf> High density floppies were too good.
22:47:28 <pikhq_> I've still got an LS-120 drive around here.
22:47:52 <pikhq_> I ought to plug that in and see if the Linux drivers for it have bitrot or not.
22:48:12 <int-e> shachaf: that's when they started to mix decimal and binary units
22:48:16 <pikhq_> IIRC, the actual capacity was 1440 kiB.
22:48:40 <int-e> (same for the 1.2MB 5.25" floppies)
22:49:33 <int-e> pikhq_: right. 2 sides, 90 tracks, 18 sectors, 512 bytes each.
22:49:34 <shachaf> Some people don't like it when I write units like MbHz
22:50:19 <int-e> (for some reason, the 5.25" disks had onle 15 sectors. probably some precision problem)
22:50:27 <shachaf> Oh, they only used FAT-12?
22:50:33 <pikhq_> The megabit-hertz seems a touch unusual.
22:50:47 <int-e> shachaf: of course, the FAT needs to be small!!!1
22:50:54 <int-e> metadata is such a waste
22:50:56 <shachaf> pikhq_: It's a pretty popular unit.
22:51:26 <pikhq_> More for compatibility reasons; even DOS 2 supports FAT-12.
22:51:42 <pikhq_> (as do some pre-MSDOS systems)
22:51:55 <shachaf> pikhq_: Are you still universitting?
22:52:08 <pikhq_> Oh, huh, no; FAT-12 was first in QDOS.
22:52:28 <pikhq_> Well, not literally this second.
22:53:31 <pikhq_> One class has a professor that I think takes meth before showing up.
22:53:43 <pikhq_> He's utterly incoherent and rambles on and on.
22:53:50 <pikhq_> I think somewhere in there he might be discussing something.
22:54:10 <pikhq_> N-methylamphetamine, a popular stimulant.
22:54:10 <int-e> . o O ( universitting is like dog sitting, but on a larger scale )
22:55:53 <shachaf> pikhq_: yes, jutht thaying it's quite a meth he's gotten himthelf into hth
22:56:35 <int-e> ith thith a theeth joke?
22:57:22 <pikhq_> I dhon' know, I think I'm thtill thalking a bith like thith.
22:57:54 <shachaf> Do you use two-factor authentication for your Google account?
22:58:27 <shachaf> What would you do if you lost your TOTP machine?
22:58:52 <pikhq_> Grab the security codes out of the safe I keep them in.
22:59:15 <shachaf> What if you were traveling and you lost all your things?
22:59:40 <pikhq_> I'd have higher priority problems to deal with first.
23:00:04 <shachaf> After you dealt with all the higher priority problems.
23:00:12 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:00:25 <shachaf> I'm a bit worried, is all.
23:00:33 <shachaf> I memorized two security codes.
23:00:36 <pikhq_> ... Then I'd probably be able to get access to said safe?
23:00:51 <pikhq_> Or an already-logged-in device.
23:00:51 <shachaf> You wouldn't want to access your Google account until you got home?
23:01:18 <pikhq_> In this particular situation, I don't think that's too big of a deal.
23:02:08 <pikhq_> I should probably switch to using a U2F token, though.
23:02:20 <shachaf> I was considering memorizing my TOTP secret.
23:03:59 <int-e> "something you've forgotten, something you've lost, and something you were."
23:04:32 <int-e> and in any case, https://xkcd.com/538/ seems relevant
23:06:39 <int-e> the stuff you memorize may be a liability
23:06:40 <pikhq_> In the case of 2FA, what you're really protecting yourself against above all else is mass password cracks and leaks.
23:07:04 <pikhq_> i.e. it's a useful step against random Internet thugs.
23:07:17 <shachaf> against random Internet hugs?!
23:07:28 <pikhq_> (and that is the most relevant attacker in my threat model)
23:08:24 <int-e> pikhq_: the comic was for shachaf's plan of memorizing backup security codes
23:08:37 <shachaf> Well, I already memorized them.
23:08:44 <int-e> the "something you've lost" part was about the tokens of course
23:08:46 <shachaf> But I suppose I can regenerate them.
23:09:40 <int-e> but that doesn't mean they're a bad idea as part of 2FA... they are worth little without the password
23:10:13 <shachaf> I think traveling and having my computer and wallet and phone stolen isn't entirely unrealistic.
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00:05:15 <fizzie> 44 floppies later, 4 could not be read at all, and 7 had some amount of read errors.
00:07:09 * oerjan put on laundry way too late...
00:07:21 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 4h 17m 50s ago: <oerjan (via lambdabot)> also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors. <-- Yeah, I figured that out
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00:29:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Oerjan * marked revision 51393 of [[File:Emoji-gramming.png]] patrolled
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00:51:53 <oerjan> <shachaf> the traditional phrase is "do you like this?", not "what do you think of this" <-- neither those are good phrases for getting my comment, anyway - too amortized.
00:52:06 <HackEgo> An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember.
00:52:18 <shachaf> You can never remember those phrases?
00:52:39 <oerjan> i put amortized when i cannot remember the actual word, out of spite hth
00:52:53 <oerjan> sometimes that makes me remember the actual word.
00:55:17 <oerjan> i think this may be a concept my subconscious is afraid of, and therefore refuses to let me remember the word for.
00:58:19 <oerjan> i think the word might be "committing", or something close.
01:00:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Anyway I said it because Jafet "do you like this?"ed me the other day.
01:03:31 <shachaf> that's a very lowercase okay
01:03:50 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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01:15:59 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
01:16:15 <HackEgo> 28) <ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" \ 456) <itidus20> like i could ask how many "petals" are there on each of the "flowers" on this coffee mug i just made a drink with <itidus20> but that would be NP hard I think \ 1219) <Dulnes> Anyways i actually do
01:16:34 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
01:30:51 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ <\oren\> what. why URL country codes"? <-- because i've sometimes updated common information in them, and it was getting awkward to find all of them when they were named in the same language.
01:32:05 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/reflection
01:32:06 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/reflection: No such file or directory
01:32:58 <oerjan> a slightly annoying age, but nevertheless.
01:33:25 <HackEgo> 5501:2015-06-09 <tsweẗt> ` ln -s /proc/self/cmdline wisdom/reflection \ 10245:2017-02-14 <int-̈e> learn_append reflection Does this shatter the mirror? \ 10246:2017-02-14 <int-̈e> revert \ 10498:2017-03-24 <shachäf> forget reflection
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01:34:31 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel without reflections. Or long-lived topics. | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
01:35:48 <boily> hellørjan. we're missing reflections?
01:36:28 <oerjan> shachaf has eradicated them
01:39:05 <boily> good thing. reflection is bad, but I'm stuck with it in Java because stupid type erasure.
01:42:24 <boily> also, finished third in tonight's game because that guy tsumo'ed on a kantan 5 wait, riichi nomi, then what do you know he flips ura and gets 3 dora.
01:42:46 * boily rants and plein d'affaires de même. tsé.
01:51:29 <quintopia> i am so lost. mah jong sounds hard
01:55:22 <boily> quinthelkopia! mahjong is quite easy, it's just the vocabulary that's a little bit hermetic >_>'...
01:56:14 <quintopia> does it go good with canadian beer
01:56:31 <boily> incidentally I was drinking a Bleue.
01:56:37 <boily> and you need Canadian beer all right.
01:57:06 <quintopia> i wonder how some might be obtained
01:57:32 <boily> by mail, in a very dubiously wrapped package. good thing I had electric tape on hand.
01:57:56 <quintopia> lol that should easily recognizable
01:58:29 <boily> time to reconcile a pillow.
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03:28:41 <HackEgo> IronY: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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04:18:09 <lambdabot> KAFF 240409Z AUTO 35034G51KT 10SM -RA SCT016 BKN110 11/00 A2960 RMK AO2 RAB09
04:18:18 <lambdabot> KOAK 240353Z 24005KT 10SM FEW045 SCT085 BKN100 BKN150 13/07 A3024 RMK AO2 SLP238 T01330072
04:18:20 <lambdabot> KSJC 240353Z 32007KT 10SM FEW010 SCT090 BKN110 12/06 A3024 RMK AO2 SLP238 T01220056
04:18:22 <pikhq_> Yep, 51 knot gusts checks out.
04:18:36 <pikhq_> ... Is KOAK not an automated station?
04:19:19 <pikhq_> I thought AUTO was how you indicated the weather station was automated or not.
04:20:00 <lambdabot> KSFO 240356Z 12005KT 10SM FEW046 BKN090 BKN110 13/06 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP235 T01280061 $
04:20:06 <lambdabot> KSAN 240351Z 30005KT 10SM FEW025 15/07 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP236 T01500072
04:20:08 <lambdabot> KSEA 240353Z 30003KT 9SM -RA BKN044 OVC050 08/06 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP132 P0002 T00780061
04:20:12 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
04:20:15 <lambdabot> CYUL 240400Z 22008KT 15SM BKN120 OVC160 M01/M10 A3042 RMK AC6AC2 SLP305 \ ENVA 240350Z 09006KT 9999 FEW040 M01/M05 Q1021 RMK WIND 670FT 19013KT \ ESSB 240350Z AUTO 24002KT 9999 SCT066/// M05/M07
04:20:15 <lambdabot> Q1025 \ KOAK 240353Z 24005KT 10SM FEW045 SCT085 BKN100 BKN150 13/07 A3024 RMK AO2 SLP238 T01330072 \ PAMR 240353Z 00000KT 10SM CLR M03/M09 A2980 RMK AO2 SLP094 T10331089
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04:27:36 <adu> fizzie: floppies?!?!? I remember those
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10:44:52 <HackEgo> hexham//Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico
10:45:17 <HackEgo> ellioẗt Tanëb ellioẗt oerjän oerjän
10:55:53 <HackEgo> the five wisdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom.
10:56:05 <HackEgo> The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent.
10:57:36 <boily> `? le/rn forth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom forth The
10:57:37 <HackEgo> le/rn forth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom forth The? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:58:15 * boily slaps himself awake
10:58:20 <boily> `le/rn forth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom forth The
10:58:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'forth wisdom': .wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom forth The
11:02:03 <HackEgo> monoidal category//Monoidal categories are just 2-categories with a single object.
11:02:25 <boily> and monads are the powerhouse of the category.
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11:33:32 <HackEgo> codensity:Codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed. \ coptology:Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and reverse engineering of copters, whereas coptography is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis. \ postorder:Postord
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11:46:45 <HackEgo> Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication.
12:04:43 <HackEgo> 385) <SgeoN1> No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse.
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12:26:59 <HackEgo> 43) <apollo> Maternal instincts? <apollo> Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops?
12:27:34 <HackEgo> 41) <ehird> no Deewiant <Deewiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
12:27:56 <HackEgo> eat the oil \ over low heat until the sugar is frown cooking. Remove the shanks \ over the dough. Serve with remaining sauce. Place them into a mixing \ cold water at the stir in fork. Serve with the salads, table spoonfuls. Keep \ begins to add the boiling water and set the eggplants, dip off a \ few seconds. \ \ Makes about 2 Tablespoons
12:27:57 <HackEgo> sand//Sand is what microprocessors are made of. Taneb invented it.
12:28:46 <HackEgo> blæg//Blæg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
12:29:34 <Phantom_Hoover> commercial silicon production is mostly from iron-silicon alloy
12:31:05 <int-e> "Ferrosilicon is produced by reduction of silica or sand with coke in the presence of iron." ... sand may still be involved?!
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12:36:20 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: it was true back in ancient time, when the Cult of the Bound Variable is conjectured to have made "a city-sized machine powered by falling sand" called the Universal Machine.
12:37:00 <Jafet> I thought silicon for microprocessors was mined from silicon crystal veins
12:38:21 <HackEgo> delve:Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. "Delve" means "For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana." The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve i
12:38:57 <b_jonas> convoke is not an alternative cost either.
12:41:35 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" \ echo "Forget what?"
12:41:49 <HackEgo> ../bin/noooodl? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:41:53 <HackEgo> ../bin/noooooodl? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:42:23 <int-e> I think you're missing an 'r'
12:42:31 <int-e> `` cd bin; echo *noo*
12:42:32 <HackEgo> noooooooodl: rnooooooooodl
12:43:55 <int-e> `` cd bin; echo *noo* | tr o x
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14:34:56 <HackEgo> .wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom forth The
14:35:53 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/fo{,u}rth; slwd fourth\ wisdom//s,rt,urt,
14:36:28 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/fo{,u}rth\ wisdom; slwd fourth\ wisdom//s,rt,urt,
14:36:30 <HackEgo> fourth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The
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14:43:17 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....
@.....@.......(s..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....ø.......ø....................8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@.....¼d......¼d........ ............n......n`.....n`.....$......ð........ ...........(n......(n`.....(n`.....Ð.......Ð................
14:43:26 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/nooodl: No such file or directory
14:43:30 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Oct 28 18:37 bin/nooooooodl: -> /bin/echo
14:44:03 <HackEgo> 2787:2013-04-23 <noood̈l> ln -s /bin/echo bin/nooodl:
14:49:25 <HackEgo> hlnp --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
14:49:45 <HackEgo> scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
14:53:47 <oerjan> `` hg log --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- bin/nooodl:
14:53:54 <HackEgo> 9075:2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ 9074:2016-09-25 <jeffl35> ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ 5643:2015-06-21 <tswett> revert \ 5642:2015-06-21 <tswett> rm bin -r \ 4531:2014-03-16 <oerjan> revert \ 4530:2014-03-16 <elliott> revert 1 \ 2787:2013-04-23 <noooooodl> ln -s /bin/echo bin/noooooooodl:
14:54:46 * oerjan should have kept the sed
14:55:04 <HackEgo> 2787:2013-04-23 <noood̈l> ln -s /bin/echo bin/nooodl:
14:55:19 <oerjan> i don't think the full version is much slower
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15:53:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51398&oldid=40209 * Oerjan * (+21) Mediawiki at one point changed this, which messed up a lot of my old nice formatting. Let's see if this makes it sane again.
15:54:08 * oerjan is still a bit miffed about <code> having borders, but...
15:59:59 <int-e> wait, isn't <pre> supposed to respect newlines?
16:00:26 <oerjan> yes. it still does that.
16:01:03 <oerjan> it's just, it's not supposed to wrap on other whitespace, but Mediawiki's default does so anyhow
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16:02:40 <int-e> (looking at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Unlambda#Combinators and the code is all on one line here
16:03:10 <int-e> in a box, with a horizontal scrollbar
16:04:05 <oerjan> oh god, it shows differently in preview than in final formatting D:
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16:04:50 <oerjan> it looked nice in preview
16:05:00 <int-e> oerjan: didn't you mean pre rather than nowrap?
16:06:00 <int-e> (sorry for first complaining and then looking for the cause)
16:06:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51399&oldid=51398 * Oerjan * (-3) Apparently that was wrong, but *somehow* looked nice in preview.
16:07:08 <oerjan> but i had to it twice for some reason.
16:08:33 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
16:10:06 <int-e> in any case by "cache" I meant that wikimedia might be caching something there
16:10:36 <int-e> which is a bit difficult to test
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16:20:07 <lambdabot> Plugin `search' failed with: connect: does not exist (No route to host)
16:20:21 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot
16:20:46 <int-e> ideas why this happens would be welcome
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16:22:03 <int-e> (nameservers are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, so Google's, hmm)
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16:31:50 <dtscode> int-e: my guess is something fails somewhere down the line
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16:53:02 <hppavilion[1]> I only yesterday discovered that I can unprint a line in Python using a \r
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16:53:36 <hppavilion[1]> If I don't advance to a new line, I can overwrite the current line indefinitely (which is good for command-line downloaders, because I can make it print the percentage completed)
16:54:09 <hppavilion[1]> But is there a way to make the cursor go backwards? A reverse of \n, if you will?
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17:01:24 <b_jonas> wow. this html webpage actually has multiple elements with the same id attribute.
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17:17:40 <\oren\> @tell hppavilion[1] you can move around the screen freely with ANSI escape sequences
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17:28:54 <Jafet> @yahoogle lambdabot
17:28:55 <lambdabot> package lambdabot-reference-plugins
17:30:28 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I'm looking at https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%B8nnes
17:30:40 <hppavilion[1]> And I noticed this line: "Fra Wikipedia, den frie encyklopedi"
17:30:43 <lambdabot> \oren\ said 13m 2s ago: you can move around the screen freely with ANSI escape sequences
17:33:52 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/unintended-consequences is confusing me
17:35:49 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( There should be a command line tool to generate image macros )
17:37:36 <hppavilion[1]> Example: meme xx "make memes" "use a command-line to generate them in bash"
17:38:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Collatz function]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51400&oldid=43075 * Oerjan * (+6688) Major new section about reduction to [[cyclic tag system]]s inspired by [[User:Challenger5]]'s inquiry. Some rearrangements.
17:40:25 <oerjan> . o O ( encyklopedi sounds pretty old-fashioned to me )
17:45:49 <hppavilion[1]> And it doesn't block the website KnowYourMeme, but it blocks the domain of one of the stylesheets
17:46:04 <hppavilion[1]> The URL of the stylesheet is a.kym-cdn.com/assets/application-e15fbd68366e7b708bee633fb97d103c.css
17:46:35 <hppavilion[1]> If I could get my hands on that from another source (exempli gratia Pastebin), there might be a way to horribly hack my cache so the site will load
17:47:01 <rdococ> In my experience, teachers know nothing about computers. They will happily use Windows and IE, and don't know how to turn off Youtube's autoplay.
17:49:21 <int-e> Wee, so many ARP packets. But the failed @google are RST packets on the initial TCP handshake. So... nothing I can do about that? Sigh.
17:49:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cyclic tag system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51401&oldid=41979 * Oerjan * (+267) Marketing
17:50:01 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ...I'm trying to hintily ask someone to open a.kym-cdn.com/assets/application-e15fbd68366e7b708bee633fb97d103c.css and pastebin the content
17:51:35 <oerjan> `fetch /tmp/yo http://a.kym-cdn.com/assets/application-e15fbd68366e7b708bee633fb97d103c.css
17:51:44 <oerjan> `fetch tmp/yo http://a.kym-cdn.com/assets/application-e15fbd68366e7b708bee633fb97d103c.css
17:51:48 <HackEgo> 2017-03-24 17:51:39 URL:http://a.kym-cdn.com/assets/application-e15fbd68366e7b708bee633fb97d103c.css [86548/86548] -> "tmp/yo" [1]
17:51:55 <int-e> (I've captured 771 ARP packets over a time frame of 10 seconds. That seems a bit excessive.)
17:51:56 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/yo
17:52:24 <rdococ> http://pastebin.com/v3C0gF0m
17:52:37 <rdococ> well, looks like hppavilion[1] is gone
17:52:41 <HackEgo> @charset "UTF-8";html,body,header,hgroup,nav,article,section,details,aside,footer,div,span,applet,object,iframe,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,p,blockquote,pre,a,abbr,acronym,address,big,cite,code,del,dfn,em,font,img,ins,kbd,q,s,samp,small,strike,strong,sub,sup,tt,var,b,u,i,center,dl,dt,dd,ol,ul,li,fieldset,form,label,legend,table,caption,tbody,tfoot,thead,t
17:52:52 <rdococ> message to the school: duck all schools
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17:56:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cyclic tag system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51402&oldid=51401 * Oerjan * (+37) /* Computational class */ not to mention
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18:09:12 <rdococ> <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/yo
18:11:20 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ty, now to figure out how to force it into the site
18:13:39 <hppavilion[1]> OK, now, does anybody know of a way to override a URL, either in the browser or on an OS level
18:19:41 <rdococ> hipavillion[1], HackEllo
18:24:19 <int-e> I guess I'll try to disable IPv6 for lambdabot and see whether that helps... but first, shopping.
18:36:01 <rdococ> hipavilion[1], hint-e: what do you think when you hear the word positronium?
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18:54:01 <int-e> rdococ: science fiction technobabble
18:54:37 <rdococ> yes, but I'd like it to be functional magic
18:54:50 <rdococ> what will these, "positronium crystals", behave like?
18:55:02 <rdococ> granted they'd probably annihilate themselves but shhh
19:00:22 <\oren\> positronium? sounds like the antimatter equivalent of an electron gas
19:01:35 <rdococ> but as a crystal, what do you think it would be?
19:01:52 <rdococ> I'm creating a mod for a better, open-source version of Minecraft, called Minetest.
19:03:02 <rdococ> It'll be found in SPACE! (space space space space)
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19:43:19 <int-e> meh. sorry for that; apparently /reconnect does *not* take changed ssl settings into account.
19:53:46 <int-e> dtscode: FWIW, it's actually a problem in the bot... apparently it can't even wait for one second for the connection to be established. It takes that long because for some reason that I don't understand, the IPv6 neighbour discovery starts with the link-local scope address as source before asking on the global level.
19:56:06 <int-e> I'm not sure that it's Haskell's fault :P
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20:05:29 <shapr> dtscode: you're missing out
20:06:09 <dtscode> I'd much rather write a nice bash script
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20:41:17 <fizzie> Good tips on extracting data from a disk drive when reading from the drive causes the machine to instantly reboot?
20:41:23 <fizzie> The drive identifies to the system well enough, and I can read the partition table, and even a few blocks of data (dd bs=512 count=1024), but whenever I tell it to read anything much, it reboots.
20:41:52 <fizzie> I've got two drives that behave like this, both 2.5" IDE ones using an adapter for the normal 3.5" IDE connector.
20:42:05 <fizzie> A third drive using the same adapter I could read with dd just fine.
20:42:48 <fizzie> I thought about trying to use hdparm to downgrade it to some less efficient transfer mode, but it doesn't respect the -d flag for disabling DMA.
20:45:15 <fizzie> I wonder if I could use dd | pv | dd to make a "slow copy", and if that would really help matters.
20:46:55 <shachaf> Did you know FreeBSD has a SIGINFO signal that you can send to programs like cp to get progress information?
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20:53:27 <fizzie> Apparently the answer is "no" to dd | pv | dd. (Instant reboot.)
20:53:35 <fizzie> I know dd prints progress info on SIGUSR1.
20:53:59 <fizzie> Having it widely available and with a key sounds clever.
20:56:38 <shapr> fizzie: you use pv
21:00:31 <fizzie> It's a little hard to diagnose a thing that causes an instant reboot.
21:07:10 <shachaf> fizzie: Another thing you could do is have all long-running programs run HTTP servers that you can get information from.
21:07:48 <fizzie> shachaf: I spent a couple seconds wondering how on earth that would help with my hard disk problems.
21:08:20 <shachaf> Did you know there's a program that will print status information about running cp etc. processes?
21:09:00 <shachaf> It uses /proc/n/fdinfo to see how far they are into their file descriptors.
21:09:09 <shachaf> Well, I guess for cp you don't even need that, you can just look at the target file.
21:11:46 <shachaf> I think I'm thinking of this program: https://github.com/Xfennec/progress
21:32:21 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESFlwc9Kl5o <- Touhou Opera
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22:18:19 <int-e> dtscode: So actually I have just reproduced this with C code :-/ Which means that the kernel reports this as an unreachable host.
22:18:39 <rdococ> Reproduce it with pronounceable cee.
22:18:51 <dtscode> the haskell code fucked with the kernel?
22:19:03 <int-e> dtscode: that's silly.
22:19:17 <dtscode> i'm going to keep blaming haskell because it scares me
22:19:55 <boily> there's nothing to be feared about Haskell. C++ on the other hand...
22:20:10 <dtscode> as long as I don't get into TMP
22:20:40 <int-e> boily: psst, unsafeCoerce, hush.
22:21:02 <dtscode> int-e: what kind of kernel is it?
22:21:20 <boily> int-ello. modulo that minor inconsequential detail.
22:21:52 <int-e> hmm, 3.16.0. Debian.
22:22:21 <int-e> boily: also, tracking down insufficient laziness
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22:22:51 <int-e> that said, C++ doesn't even offer the assurances that unsafeCoerce breaks :)
22:23:39 <shachaf> C++ has all sorts of type safety.
22:25:03 <shachaf> rdococ: Why do you do the things you do?
22:25:25 * int-e tries to remember the last time that rdococ said anything of interest, but fails.
22:26:00 * dtscode tries to remember, but fails
22:35:45 <dtscode> we should all just start writing everything in bash
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22:55:54 <boily> that may not be the reasonablest choice...
22:56:05 <boily> I say, write everything in Java!
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22:57:36 <zzo38> I think different program language can be use for different thing, such as assembly language, C, JavaScript, Forth, etc
22:57:47 <zzo38> There is also the domain specific programming
22:58:00 <shachaf> I think different program language can be use for same thing
22:58:53 <zzo38> That too can be done yes
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00:16:07 <oerjan> <rdococ> <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/yo <-- come to think of it, that's not very permanent.
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02:14:25 <shachaf> zzo38: https://plus.google.com/+DanPiponi/posts/5YkEtmtpg8M
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04:02:17 * hppavilion[1] 's font is UnifrakturMaguntia17, which is based on 17th-century German typesetting, so e is feeling very German
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04:42:24 <hppavilion[1]> ...well this is unfortunate: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Donald_Grump
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09:48:24 <int-e> @tell dtscode I've now fixed lambdabot's problem by adding a permanent IPv6 neighbor entry for the router... it will last until the ISP decides to switch out their router... I still don't understand what's going wrong precisely, though.
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11:25:43 <boily> Gregor: Grellogor. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANANTSINGONYAMABAGITHIBABAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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12:01:16 <HackEgo> morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ..-. . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
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12:09:37 <boily> `slwd morse//s,/ ..-.,/ .-..,
12:09:40 <HackEgo> morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / .-..-. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ..-. . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
12:12:01 <boily> `slwd morse//s,/ \.\.-\.,/ .../,
12:12:02 <HackEgo> morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / .../ . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
12:12:19 <boily> `slwd morse//s,/ \.\.-\.,/ ...-,
12:12:21 <HackEgo> morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
12:13:06 <boily> `slwd morse//s,/ -\. ,/ -. .. ,
12:13:08 <HackEgo> morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
12:13:33 <HackEgo> olist//olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
12:13:57 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
12:14:34 <HackEgo> esoterra:Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as Esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth. \ ipa:The IPA (short for International Phonetic Abjad) is an international standard encoding all non-vowel sounds in all spoken languages, and is used to indicate the pronunciation
12:31:03 <rdococ> What does the sky look like on Esoterra?
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12:35:05 <rdococ> Ooh, what about esoplanets? They're esoteric planets.
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15:54:35 <oerjan> @tell <boily> Gregor: Grellogor. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANANTSINGONYAMABAGITHIBABAAAAAAAAAAAAA! <-- that was remarkably effective, but what does it *mean*?
15:54:46 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> Gregor: Grellogor. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANANTSINGONYAMABAGITHIBABAAAAAAAAAAAAA! <-- that was remarkably effective, but what does it *mean*?
15:54:57 <oerjan> and of course it should have been @ask
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16:04:07 <rdococ> Heck, who wants me to try writing Snake in brainfuck?
16:06:10 <rdococ> You only program once, I guess.
16:06:41 <rdococ> What limitations should be posed?
16:06:53 <rdococ> e.g. 8-bit, nonwrapping, or something else
16:10:13 <oerjan> 8-bit nonwrapping is good since then it should run "everywhere"
16:10:31 <rdococ> Well, the interpreter I'm using is unbounded, but I will try to stick to that.
16:13:14 <rdococ> my attention span is too short
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16:13:44 <oerjan> right now, mine is too. oh right...
16:13:55 <rdococ> Maybe I should try creating a snake game in some kind of simulated assembly before tackling it in BF.
16:15:31 <rdococ> Lambda calculus it is.
16:15:53 <oerjan> that might not be the easiest to convert to brainfuck, actually.
16:17:47 <rdococ> Honestly, I'm not used to low level technicalities.
16:18:21 <oerjan> well brainfuck is imperative.
16:18:46 <oerjan> and low level technicalities is what esolangs are all about, most of the time.
16:20:42 <oerjan> hm one obvious problem for snake: brainfuck doesn't really have a way to poll for input keys while doing something else
16:21:09 <Zarutian> oerjan: a turn based snake then, eh?
16:21:20 <oerjan> if there is such a thing.
16:30:58 <Zarutian> regarding bf tape space. Is it limited in length usually or?
16:32:48 <oerjan> that depends on implementation. the original had 30000 cells.
16:33:09 <rdococ> If it's unbounded in either number of cells, or cell size, it's a TC implementation.
16:33:36 <oerjan> number of cells is quite a bit more efficient, though.
16:35:14 <rdococ> I imagine having bounded number of cells but unbounded cell size would require multiplication and division routines.
16:36:55 <oerjan> it's exponentially slower, anyway.
16:37:28 <oerjan> minsky machine vs. turing machine
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17:28:20 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 33m 33s ago: <boily> Gregor: Grellogor. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANANTSINGONYAMABAGITHIBABAAAAAAAAAAAAA! <-- that was remarkably effective, but what does it *mean*?
17:28:56 <boily> it may involve a cliff, an extended monkey, and a small lion.
17:29:57 <int-e> @google ANANTSINGONYAMABAGITHIBABA
17:30:07 <int-e> "Showing results for NANTS INGONYAMA BAGITHI BABA"
17:30:36 <int-e> so what boily said
17:31:11 <int-e> Nants ingonyama bagithi baba [Here comes a lion, Father]
17:31:17 <rdococ> Boily is what happens to water when it farts.
17:31:44 <HackEgo> “Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
17:32:25 <int-e> I wonder how much of that movie I've seen.
17:33:14 * rdococ laughs, because the sentence order setting changed rdococ to OVS as rdococ tried to thwack boily
17:35:33 * boily persists in thwacking rdococ. it's very cathartic!
17:37:48 <rdococ> OVS changed to the sentence order, so in actuality boily is thwacking me.
17:40:16 * oerjan rdococem swattit casibus inescapabilibus latinibus -----###
17:40:55 <rdococ> Sorry, but the SOV sentence order is not using us.
17:41:26 <oerjan> rdococ: the point is that latin doesn't use sentence order to determine who swats who hth
17:41:44 <rdococ> You mean sentence order doesn't use latin to determine who swats who?
17:41:59 <rdococ> Sentence order doesn't use latin to determine who swats who mean you?
17:42:31 <oerjan> `8ball should i ignore or ban rdococ?
17:42:52 <rdococ> `8ball Should rdococ ignore or ban oerjan?
17:43:03 <rdococ> Remember, OVS word order :P
17:43:40 <rdococ> Fine, if you don't like me being around, I'll leave.
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17:44:09 <oerjan> increasing blood sugar ->
17:51:11 <boily> oerjan: what are you drinking and/or injecting and/or imbibing?
17:54:28 <int-e> maybe he's just breaking up some glycogen
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17:58:17 <boily> maybe some eventyrbrus?
17:59:49 <oerjan> nope. bread with strawberry jam.
17:59:57 <oerjan> also some coke but it was sugar free.
18:06:51 <boily> \oren\: he\\oren\. could you add foodstuff to your font please?
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18:16:14 <int-e> fungot's been quiet lately...
18:16:14 <fungot> int-e: advice for riastradh
18:17:24 <int-e> fungot: do you think Trump will have better luck with his tax reform?
18:17:24 <fungot> int-e: you mean you eat meat? might want to check out
18:17:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
18:17:54 <boily> meat is good. offal is better.
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18:20:20 <boily> `relcome lezsakdomi
18:20:21 <HackEgo> lezsakdomi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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20:23:28 <Taneb> Not sure the thing I am trying to do is possible aaaaaaah
20:23:44 <Taneb> This is not fun because this is a large proportion of my master's thesis
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20:24:33 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, Taneb is going to be a master?
20:24:53 <Taneb> shachaf, that is the intention
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20:26:09 <shachaf> make sure to pay attention to the formatting of your bibliography
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20:26:19 <Taneb> Thank you for the advice
20:26:32 <shachaf> just trying to help you out with your snake
20:26:44 <shachaf> poisonous snakes are not fun
20:29:00 <Taneb> The snake is the easy bit
20:29:10 <Taneb> I am after all half Australian
20:29:49 <shachaf> Half Australian, half Dutch, and half British? Any other halves?
20:30:03 <shachaf> Is British a thing you can be?
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20:30:45 <Taneb> My Australian side is 100% Dutch
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20:32:32 * rdococ wonders if anyone has seen my interpreter for Zeno yet
20:47:56 <rdococ> But I do know Deutsch is German for German, and not Dutch for Dutch.
20:48:39 <rdococ> I'm going to create a language where "Espanol" refers to Esperanto.
20:49:09 <rdococ> And <c> is probably /c/ or /d3/
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21:06:09 <zzo38> One RoboRosewater card is "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may skip your next end step." Do you like this or other idea of it?
21:07:45 <zzo38> Avoid triggering stuff that triggers during end step, and if opponent plays something at the end of your turn you will now still be able to play further sorceries and permanent spells after opponent plays, before your turn is finish.
21:08:20 <shachaf> Ah, I like the second one.
21:23:29 <zzo38> None of the people who commented on it on Twitter mentioned this second thing, and many of them even misunderstood what it meant (confusing it with the cleanup step and with the ending phase).
21:24:31 <erkin> rdococ: Official Office of Official Officacies recommends the use of Z for ʒ when limited to ASCII.
21:24:50 <shachaf> But you don't get priority in the cleanup step, and it can't be skipped as far as I know.
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21:28:19 <zzo38> That is correct. (In some cases it is possible to get priority in the cleanup step, but usually you don't. One way this can happen is by discarding a card with madness when discarding for hand size. In some cases a creature (and any Auras attached to it) may die during a cleanup step; these permanents die as a state-based action, so you get priority in that case too.)
21:29:02 <shachaf> Gain priority until end of turn.
21:30:19 <zzo38> "Gain priority until end of turn" is meaningless I think; it is not a continuous effect (but, you can make up Un-cards with such thing and confuse you!)
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21:31:34 <zzo38> Actually, I can think of some cases where an Aura can die during the cleanup step even though the permanent it is attached to does not die, such as using a Aura that says "enchant creature" on a Vehicle.
21:32:36 <Vorpal> anyone seen ais523 recently?
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21:56:24 <int-e> about four days ago, he mentioned a 50 language polyglot
21:57:37 <zzo38> shachaf: You posted earlier about changing a code with GOTO to a code without; I read it, and actually I have thought of a similar thing. JavaScript has this restriction (and I thought of how to do it in JavaScript), and so do even some binary formats.
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21:58:45 <zzo38> (Such as Hamster Speak bytecode and WebAssembly)
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22:07:57 <HackEgo> 1212) <impomatic_> TIL I can buy Baklava over the internet! I never need to leave the house again...
22:07:59 <HackEgo> tarafurnar//Tarafurnar is the event after which you'll be seen.
22:08:00 <HackEgo> ugar and pepper. Stir in the \ flour, baking soda and pepper. Stir together, salt, and let place for \ about 10 minutes. \ \ Add the beans and salt in a large skillet, in the remaining oil. Add the chocolate mixture \ and set aside. Carefully stir in the soup with the cilantro. Pour batter \ or serving time in the top bowl. \ \ Place rema
22:08:27 <Vorpal> zzo38, well, you can re-write any code using goto to not use it. Languages without goto are TC after all.
22:10:12 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/scheme
22:14:00 <wob_jonas> zzo38: skipping your end *phase* would be un-territory, Topsy Turvy does that. Skipping your end *step* is ok I think, and there's a few cards that can do that now: Time Stop, Sundial of the Infinite.
22:16:08 <wob_jonas> I think it's an effect somewhat similar to skipping your upkeep, which Eon Hub about three other cards can do.
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22:20:39 <zzo38> Yes, I did not say skipping your end step is no good; skipping your end step will be OK and yes those two cards will do that too. They still don't do the second thing I mentioned that "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may skip your next end step" would do. Skipping your ending phase does include cleanup step and so that does make it dirty.
22:21:06 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl '-ne/Scheme$/&&push@p,$p;$p=$_}{print$p[rand@p]' share/mtg/allsets.txt
22:21:22 <Jafet> `file share/mtg/allsets.txt
22:21:23 <HackEgo> share/mtg/allsets.txt: symbolic link to allsets-2016-07-23.zip
22:21:39 <Jafet> `` file $(readlink share/mtg/allsets.txt)
22:21:40 <HackEgo> allsets-2016-07-23.zip: cannot open `allsets-2016-07-23.zip' (No such file or directory)
22:21:47 <wob_jonas> As cards are now often written as whatever that new O-ring is rather than like the original O-ring and J-nowhere, there's fewer things happening in the end step anyway.
22:21:55 <Jafet> `` cd share/mtg && file $(readlink allsets.txt)
22:21:56 <HackEgo> allsets-2016-07-23.zip: ISO-8859 text, with very long lines
22:22:46 <wob_jonas> No wait, sorry, O-ring and Banishing Light have nothign to do with the end step
22:24:17 <wob_jonas> Is there a Banishing Light template version of Otherworldly Journey or of Turn to Mist yet?
22:26:09 <wob_jonas> I guess there's no need for an updated template there. The main reason for Banishing Light was to change what happens if Oblivion Ring leaves tbf before the enter trigger resolves.
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00:00:30 <izabera> how do i get the topic of a chan when i'm not in it?
00:00:55 <zzo38> Use the TOPIC command.
00:01:23 <izabera> i tried /topic #thatchan and got -- | #thatchan: You're not on that channel
00:02:05 <zzo38> Some channels are secret and you can't access the topic if you aren't on it. You could also try LIST with that channel, but it is also unlikely to work
00:02:42 <wob_jonas> alis can also tell you the topic of non-secret channels
00:04:01 <izabera> i don't know if it's secret, alis doesn't tell me the topic
00:04:06 <izabera> does it matter if i'm banned or not?
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00:05:08 <wob_jonas> izabera: if alis doesn't tell you and the TOPIC command doesn't tell you either, then I think all you can do is JOIN. If JOIN succeeds, the server should tell you the topic.
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00:12:48 -!- oerjan has set topic: Forward to the Future | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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00:44:34 <hppavilion[1]> I was just thinking yesterday "I wonder if someone owns the film rights to Captain Underpants, and how long it is until they decide to make a movie"
00:47:39 <_11> beep bop byeee
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00:54:00 <pikhq_> Apparently the series is still fairly popular with its target audience, so...
00:54:23 <pikhq_> As for whether it'll be a good adaptation A) I dunno B) I am *so* outside the target audience now.
02:01:30 <shachaf> -What is the target audience?
02:02:16 <oerjan> . o O ( everyone young at heart )
02:02:34 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Ah, yeah. Really young children; I think around first or second grade for me
02:05:08 <HackEgo> Tarafurnar is the event after which you'll be seen.
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02:05:34 <oerjan> the only google hit for this is HackEgo's wisdom/
02:05:52 <oerjan> (although i do recall what it means, now)
02:07:46 <oerjan> @ask Jafet <Jafet> `? ../bin/scheme <-- you do know you can use `cat, right?
02:10:13 <HackEgo> cat: bin/wisom: No such file or directory
02:10:17 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
02:10:40 <shachaf> oerjan: You never said that to me when I used `? ../bin/
02:11:12 <oerjan> that's because i knew you knew hth
02:13:23 <shachaf> Anyway when I'm sneaky king I'm going to ban the phrase "you do know ..., right?"
02:14:25 <wob_jonas> shachaf: and I'm going to ban "How come nobody mentioned [...] yet?"
02:16:32 <oerjan> shachaf: but how can you then answer with "i do now" tdnh
02:43:18 <shachaf> oerjan: you could ask "do you know ...?" instead hth
02:47:01 <fizzie> shachaf: Just to give you some closure, managed to find an old USB hard disk enclosure that did IDE and could read the automatically rebooting drive with no problems.
02:47:46 <oerjan> . o O ( which variables is that closing over )
02:47:48 <zzo38> I have played the GURPS game today, finally. Is good game
02:47:54 <zzo38> See http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+1 I wrote what happen in there
02:48:19 <shachaf> oerjan: it's closing over a hard disk, as fizzie said
02:48:41 <shachaf> I'm not sure what this is referring to. Was I talking to fizzie about IDE drives?
02:50:24 <oerjan> you were talking past each other, as i recall.
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02:54:45 <shachaf> "this" being the question "Do you like this?"
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03:02:45 <zzo38> No I meant the GURPS game, but you can answer other one too if you like to do so.
03:15:22 <wob_jonas> ``` wc bin/starwars && starwars # I created a new command to print a random Star Wars character
03:15:23 <HackEgo> 2 68 942 bin/starwars \ Jocasta Nu
03:15:41 <wob_jonas> ``` starwars # you can use it for divination purposes too
03:15:49 <HackEgo> -(10 oz) orange juice \ 1 ts Cornstarch \ 1/2 ts Cayenne pepper \ 1/2 ts Pepper \ 3 tb Granulated sugar \ 2 c Canned peaches, drained \ - minced \ 2 ts Baking soda \ 8 oz Green onions \ \ Combine flour and butter or cooking spray. Topped: Cook beef and peppers. \ Cool completely. \ \ Preheat oven to 375F. To cool completely onto
03:16:00 <wob_jonas> ``` scheme; starwars; quote; wisdom
03:16:02 <HackEgo> Perhaps You've Met My Cohort \ Qui-Gon Jinn \ 613) <CakeProphet> but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...] <oerjan> i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot. \ // would be the set of rational numbers, if
03:16:33 <HackEgo> would be the set of rational numbers, if the Unicode Consortium weren't idiots who put it as ℚ.
03:26:35 <zzo38> Kind of divination such as cartomancy and dice and so on can be group as similar because is done by random selection, as compared to such thing as astrology or cheiromancy which are different from random selection.
03:27:39 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yeah, though of course our welcome says we don't do that kind of esoteric
03:28:11 <zzo38> Yes, but you did mention using the "starwars" command for the divination, and if you do it is then the same group as divination by random selection.
03:28:19 <olsner> are there any esolangs in the intersection with the other kind of esoteric?
03:28:21 <zzo38> It is what I meant.
03:28:32 <zzo38> olsner: If not, make some if you know how.
03:29:05 <olsner> related to chirality and such words presumably
03:30:06 <wob_jonas> my examples would be bird reading and haruspexy (reading from the entrails of sacrificed animals)
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03:31:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: haruspex: not found
03:31:55 <wob_jonas> can we have such a command too? one that tells what it's found in the liver of the sacred bulls or chickens
03:32:14 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I don't think so; you have to do it yourself, not by computer
03:32:44 <wob_jonas> myself? no way. I'd have to pay a professional priest for that sort of thing.
03:33:09 <zzo38> In my opinion it is not worth the money, but it isn't my money and you can do as you wish
03:33:48 <zzo38> Cheiromancy still has a value I think, because they can tell you what all of the lines on your hand are called, and what the shape of your hand are called!
03:34:50 <wob_jonas> And astrologers can tell what all the planets and dwarf planets and planetoids and constellations are called?
03:35:37 <zzo38> Now we have astronomy for that, but astrologers can still make up the glyphs for such thing, because astronomers no longer tend to do so.
03:36:53 <wob_jonas> were the older of those glyphs made up by astrologers, or was it the alchemists that did that?
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09:18:54 <shachaf> invent anything good lately
09:20:31 <shachaf> the best inventions are discovered in your dreams
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09:34:44 <\oren\> this new rusty parts pack for KSP is awsome
09:34:45 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/i0HKqR.jpg
09:37:04 <Taneb> Hmm, I think it would look better to me if it wasn't quite so rusty
09:38:13 <shachaf> watch out, Taneb wants to borrow your parts
09:38:20 <shachaf> only the borrow checker is foiling him
09:38:55 <Taneb> borrow borrow + borrow checker + checker borrow + checker checker
09:39:01 <Taneb> Now I have foiled the borrow checker (squared)
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09:57:16 <\oren\> shachaf: Blast, foiled again!
10:59:33 <rdococ> a language where all f's are ph's and all ph's are f's
11:00:12 <rdococ> print("Hi, how are ya doing? Is it phun to be an esolanger?") -> "Hi, how are ya doing? Is it fun to be an esolanger?"
11:01:01 <rdococ> all ough's get replaced with either up, off, oo, o, or au, based on random chance
11:01:05 <rdococ> random number generator:
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11:21:18 <rdococ> Have any computers passed you?
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14:28:30 <rdococ> Are there examples of languages with only continuations?
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15:32:45 <oerjan> <rdococ> Are there examples of languages with only continuations? <-- levin's IO (not the same as the OO IO) is very continuationfull, but probably also has other data types.
15:35:10 <alercah> rdococ: does lambda calculus count/
15:35:39 <oerjan> not unless you use it only in CPS (which is essentially what IO does)
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15:37:02 <oerjan> io is such a stupid name. it's so hard to find the language again...
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15:41:45 <wob_jonas> ``` echo -n "Rey's mother is "; starwars; echo -n " and his father is Sith Lord "; starwars; echo "."
15:41:46 <HackEgo> Rey's mother is C-3PO \ and his father is Sith Lord Boba Fett \ .
15:44:52 <wob_jonas> ``` echo -n "Rey's mother is "; starwars; echo -n " and his father is "; starwars; echo "."
15:44:53 <HackEgo> Rey's mother is Salacious Crumb \ and his father is the Sarlacc \ .
15:45:14 <HackEgo> tr: extra operand 'starwars' \ Only one string may be given when deleting without squeezing repeats. \ Try 'tr --help' for more information. \ 0 0 0
15:45:18 <HackEgo> bash: starwars: No such file or directory \ 0 0 0
15:45:19 <oerjan> rdococ: http://canonical.org/~kragen/raph-io.html
15:47:30 <oerjan> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Ganymede seems to be an implementation
15:48:15 <oerjan> it's from 2011, might not build any more without changes
15:50:56 <oerjan> http://wiki.c2.com/?OriginalIoLanguage some more
15:55:49 <oerjan> i had some thoughts at some point about how to restrict lambda calculus to CPS.
15:56:06 <oerjan> i don't quite recall if it could be done purely syntactically
15:58:00 <oerjan> essentially you want lambda applications only at "top level"
15:58:46 <wob_jonas> oerjan: don't you basically want a machine with goto but no gosub or subroutine stack?
15:59:53 <wob_jonas> oerjan: that's my favourite low-level computational model too
16:00:15 <oerjan> but you also want to be able to goto closures
16:00:30 <wob_jonas> subroutines are a later addition, and everyone just simulates it with a stack of return addresses and local variables, it just ain't natural
16:00:58 <oerjan> because otherwise you cannot build new continuations
16:01:20 <wob_jonas> oerjan: there are alternatives. just add registers or mutable state
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16:02:18 <oerjan> wob_jonas: but then i don't see anything corresponding to the actual _continuations_
16:02:19 <wob_jonas> I personally like registers. Have a fixed but non-small number of registers, and a storage space of immutable cons cells.
16:02:38 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yeah, no continuations. I don't have have function pointers
16:02:47 <wob_jonas> just non-computed goto, and conditionals
16:03:11 <oerjan> i once invented a SMETANA variant i called Moldau which i have never put on the wiki
16:03:28 <oerjan> it was SMETANA without the swap operation, but with structured labels.
16:05:20 <oerjan> it would work essentially like a continuation language.
16:05:51 <oerjan> (and you'd use unification of labels. so it was sort of a CPS Prolog, too)
16:06:34 <wob_jonas> also reminds me to that esolang where the main operation is assigning an integer to another integer
16:06:51 <oerjan> *reminds me of (i keep seeing you do that error)
16:10:07 <oerjan> at the time i think i considered it ais523's second best esolang, but he's made many more since.
16:10:25 <oerjan> and i haven't paid full attention to the latest ones.
16:11:26 <wob_jonas> ah, he made that back before underload and my unreliable past and all the other famous ones
16:15:46 <oerjan> well underload is my #1, still is :)
16:23:16 <oerjan> it's not entirely clear Forte is older, Underload existed in the esoarchive before being put on the wiki.
16:23:47 <oerjan> also that archive link is dead
16:24:45 <oerjan> as in, voxelperfect.net has got domain squatted. should still be on github.
16:26:39 <rdococ> domain squatters can go brainfuck off
16:27:54 <oerjan> rdococ: well the domain wasn't actually used anymore, anyway, iirc.
16:28:16 <oerjan> unfortunately the github version doesn't render the html directly.
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16:29:44 <oerjan> which means we cannot use the online interpreter there...
16:31:19 <oerjan> hm let me check wayback
16:32:13 <oerjan> dammit, robots.txt excluded
16:32:49 <oerjan> wayback is halfway useless because they're so stupid about that
16:40:22 <oerjan> fizzie: wikilink is broken again
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19:14:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NanoFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51409 * Orby * (+1775) Created page with "NanoFuck (NF) is a minimal, invertible [[Boolfuck]] variant discovered in 2017 by [[User:Orby]]. ==Definition== ===Machine=== An NF machine is basically a [[Boolfuck]] machi..."
19:15:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Orby]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51410 * Orby * (+60) Created page with "My name is Bob. I like to write code. [[NanoFuck]] [[Clem]]"
19:15:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Orby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51411&oldid=51410 * Orby * (+9)
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19:17:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Boolfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51412&oldid=43469 * Orby * (+15) /* See also */
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19:18:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smallfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51413&oldid=46845 * Orby * (+55) /* See also */
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19:19:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NanoFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51414&oldid=51409 * Orby * (-1753) Redirected page to [[Nanofuck]]
19:20:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51415 * Orby * (+1775) Created page with "Nanofuck (NF) is a minimal, invertible [[Boolfuck]] variant discovered in 2017 by [[User:Orby]]. ==Definition== ===Machine=== An NF machine is basically a [[Boolfuck]] machi..."
19:20:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Boolfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51416&oldid=51412 * Orby * (+0) /* See also */
19:20:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smallfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51417&oldid=51413 * Orby * (+0) /* See also */
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19:43:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51418&oldid=50541 * Serprex * (+323) 3 new repos
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19:53:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51419&oldid=51415 * Orby * (+304)
19:54:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Orby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51420&oldid=51411 * Orby * (+0)
19:56:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51421&oldid=51419 * Orby * (+78)
20:00:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51422&oldid=51421 * Orby * (+199) /* Machine */
20:01:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51423&oldid=51422 * Orby * (+97)
20:03:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51424&oldid=51423 * Orby * (+132)
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20:04:18 <zzo38> Do you know if there is a WebAssembly implementation or API for use with C (can be called from a C code)?
20:04:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51425&oldid=51424 * Orby * (+89)
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20:08:35 <int-e> would webassembly be useful in Arachnoneurology? https://xkcd.com/1135/
20:10:35 <wob_jonas> Can you please help me in MS SQL syntax?
20:11:03 <zzo38> Probably not. (to both questions)
20:12:05 <wob_jonas> I have a query that has to look at two tables, say b LEFT JOIN m, and I want to emit a result string that is concatenated from parts, one part should be CAST(m.Id AS NVARCHAR) if the row in m exists, or some default string if it doesn't exist.
20:12:40 <wob_jonas> I don't want to null the whole concatenated result string just because the row in m doesn't exist. The query to the table m is used only for this, so I can make it subquery instead of a join if that helps.
20:12:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51426&oldid=51425 * Orby * (-1)
20:13:04 <wob_jonas> Oh, that might be the solution! I should do an aggregate subquery to m.
20:13:11 <zzo38> I don't know MS SQL, I just use SQLite myself
20:13:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, it would be easy that awy
20:14:15 <wob_jonas> but I need to write this for an existing MS SQL database, which should be easier than syncing the data to an SQLite database
20:15:47 <fizzie> wob_jonas: isnull(expr, other) is typically equal to the value of 'expr', except 'other' if expr is null.
20:16:30 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, but how do I write the right subquery into expr?
20:17:15 <fizzie> I was assuming you'd still use b left join m, but ifnull(...m.Id..., 'something').
20:17:23 <wob_jonas> oh wait, do you mean SELECT isnull(CAST(m.Id AS NVARCHAR), 'dflt') + ' other string' FROM b LEFT JOIN m ON ... WHERE .. should work?
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20:18:17 <fizzie> It should work for some values of SQL, I'm not sure about the MS dialect.
20:19:03 <wob_jonas> I'm overcomplicating this thing, because I thoguht that wouldn't work, but I'm stupid. Iirc it's called COALESCE in MS SQL, but let me check
20:19:31 <fizzie> Looks like COALESCE is the n-ary version of ISNULL.
20:20:23 <wob_jonas> yes, ISNULL with LEFT JOIN works, thank you
20:20:31 <wob_jonas> and I should have known that alone, I'm just stupid
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20:40:44 <HackEgo> Chirrut Îmwe \ Embrace My Diabolical Vision
20:40:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotew: not found
20:40:55 <HackEgo> 710) <Ngevd> I don't know which version of Linux kernel I'm using atm <Ngevd> Hang on <Ngevd> I'm on Windows
20:41:00 <HackEgo> 2600//2600 Hz is a tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle.
20:42:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51427&oldid=51426 * Orby * (+9) /* Machine */
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22:04:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51428&oldid=51427 * Orby * (+516)
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22:06:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51429&oldid=51428 * Orby * (-1)
22:07:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51430&oldid=51429 * Orby * (+0) /* Toffoli gate */
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22:08:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51431&oldid=51430 * Orby * (+4)
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22:23:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51432&oldid=51431 * Orby * (+64) /* Definition */
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22:50:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51433&oldid=51432 * Orby * (+734)
22:52:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51434&oldid=51433 * Orby * (+172) /* Boolean functions */
23:04:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51435&oldid=51434 * Orby * (+295)
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23:08:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51436&oldid=51435 * Orby * (-1) /* Miscellaneous code */
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00:30:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51437&oldid=51436 * Oerjan * (+222) /* See also */ We've considered Reversible Boolfuck before, which also proves this TC
00:31:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51438&oldid=51437 * Oerjan * (-12) /* See also */ recat
00:39:18 <oerjan> hm, the loop conventions are swapped, although that's trivial to get around.
00:39:45 <oerjan> (since you can toggle before and after)
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01:05:40 <Zarutian> oerjan: was it you that pointed me to look at total functional programming due to me bringing up primitive recursive functions?
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01:11:15 <Zarutian> the wikipedia article did not shed much light on it for me. Well not as well the esolang LOOP did on primtive recursive functions.
01:11:38 <Zarutian> for instance, what is substructural recursion?
01:14:43 <Jafet> presumably, structural recursion with guards
01:15:40 <HackEgo> structural subtyping//Not to be confused with substructural typing.
01:16:02 <oerjan> `? substructural typing
01:16:03 <HackEgo> substructural typing? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:16:18 <oerjan> `dowg substructural typing
01:16:25 <HackEgo> 7702:2016-05-03 <shachäf> rm wisdom/substructural typing \ 1736:2013-01-24 <shachäf> >wisdom/\'substructural typing\' echo Not to be confused with structural subtyping.
01:16:54 * oerjan looks sternly at shachaf
01:17:04 <shachaf> oerjan: look, le/rn didn't exist in 2013
01:17:23 <shachaf> Oh, I guess forget existed in 2016, that's what the stern look is about.
01:17:28 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/substructural typing'
01:17:32 <shachaf> Fair enough. I've been using `forget more recently.
01:18:13 <shachaf> `dowg structural subtyping
01:18:20 <HackEgo> 1735:2013-01-24 <shachäf> >wisdom/\'structural subtyping\' echo Not to be confused with substructural typing.
01:18:21 <shachaf> It wasn't a very good joke.
01:18:30 <shachaf> I don't remember why I deleted it but maybe I had a good reason.
01:20:00 <shachaf> Maybe it would be better if there were actual definitions.
01:20:34 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:20:52 <Zarutian> as I understand LOOP, the loop controlflow construct is basically equiv to making finite iterator and doing map, reduce, filter, etc on the result of that. no?
01:20:56 <shachaf> Does oerjan ever pun without noticing it?
01:21:46 <oerjan> i never pun without noticing it, except for those times i do hth
01:21:51 <shachaf> `swrjan s/sometimes puns/once punned/
01:21:53 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He once punned without noticing it.
01:22:08 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure it was at least twice.
01:22:26 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:22:27 <shachaf> I'll take your word for it.
01:22:31 <oerjan> given that i had to demonstrate it _after_ adding that to prevent you from deleting it
01:23:01 <shachaf> Well, I'm not sure it ever happened before that time.
01:23:11 <shachaf> I don't remember what that pun was but it was probably pretty good?
01:23:25 <HackEgo> 10523:2017-03-27 <shachäf> swrjan s/sometimes puns/once punned/ \ 8418:2016-06-09 <oerjän> learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it. \ 7649:2016-05-03 <oerjän> learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:24:12 <Jafet> evidently, it wasn't noticeably good
01:24:30 <oerjan> shachaf: can you point Zarutian at some proper info about total functional programming, i tried mentioning it but i don't actually know it properly myself...
01:25:14 <shachaf> Looks like the first pun is in http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.05.02
01:25:23 <Zarutian> Jafet: it was just some sad punting waving in the wind after a long forgotten fesitwal'
01:25:30 <int-e> . o O ( Dude, Agda is totally functional! )
01:26:05 <shachaf> Regarding http://pastebin.com/raw/5g4pL4U1
01:26:12 <shachaf> 17:08:15 <oerjan> moon__: i don't feel like that counts.
01:26:16 <shachaf> I guess that's a sort of pun.
01:26:21 <shachaf> But I preferred the second one.
01:27:13 <HackEgo> A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
01:27:42 <erkin> I got trapped outside.
01:27:58 <oerjan> did you meet Taneb there?
01:28:39 <erkin> Good times were had.
01:28:55 <Zarutian> ya bunch as usefull as an whole barrel of oiled otters in an cooking advert
01:29:09 <HackEgo> ---- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: FLUMIL WITH PEANUT CARROT - PATTY PEANUT BUTTER STEW \ Categories: Poultry, German, Casseroles \ Yield: 8 Servings \ \ 1 pk Guennisin \ 1 c Mayonnaise \ 1 lb Lean bag in microwave \ 1 Onion; chopped fine \ \ Saute the peas in the refrigerator at least 8 hours. \ \ Prepare pastry
01:29:14 <shachaf> oerjan: No, Zarutian is being rude.
01:29:21 <shachaf> Also I don't know much about total functional programming.
01:29:26 <shachaf> I was talking to someone about it last night.
01:29:34 <oerjan> shachaf: figures. wait i thought you knew all about codata
01:29:44 <int-e> oh, that took a while. counting is hard.
01:30:24 <shachaf> coshachaf knows all about codata
01:30:29 <int-e> ("that" being oerjan's pun)
01:31:15 <oerjan> i guess shachaf tried to learn all the codatas, but lost unt
01:31:45 <int-e> in order to learn about codata, you first have to learn about codata
01:31:59 <shachaf> int-e: that doesn't sound very productive hth
01:32:10 <oerjan> you can't learn about codata countil you've learned about codata
01:32:29 <int-e> ah I guess you should really learn a bit and then learn about codata again
01:32:57 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm wondering if Zarutian is also being drunk
01:35:44 <Zarutian> oerjan: perchance this is usefull information to you: I do not generally drink alcahol but perhaps less than ten mililiters of champagine to respect some social rituals.
01:36:27 <oerjan> sounds like me these days
01:36:29 <Zarutian> oerjan: if I wanted to mind kill myself I would watch politicans or their erstwhile supporters argue.
01:36:50 <oerjan> no, i'm pretty sure i'd prefer alcohol to _that_
01:36:54 <shachaf> oerjan: don't you drink cognac?
01:37:08 <oerjan> shachaf: once in a blue moon
01:37:34 <oerjan> i had a shot of aquavit in december
01:37:43 <shachaf> good news, the next blue moon is in jan 2018
01:38:04 <Zarutian> oerjan: yeah. But they do not keep themselfs to their padded echochaimbers.
01:38:04 <oerjan> and cognac some time in 2016
01:39:28 <Jafet> padded chambers generally don't echo
01:39:51 <Jafet> also, have you looked at the grzegorczyk hierarchy?
01:39:57 <oerjan> the padding may be on the outside
01:39:59 <Zarutian> I do wonder how some of them function with their epsidemical frameworks being like twisty mazes, non alike.
01:41:17 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:41:41 <HackEgo> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:41:46 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s/, pr/, cognac, pr/
01:41:48 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:41:49 * Zarutian wonders what weet-of-lakes is about.
01:42:04 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep relati
01:42:12 <HackEgo> 9258:2016-10-13 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#the triverse#special relativity#
01:42:31 <oerjan> Zarutian: it's like weetabix, but with lakes instead
01:42:35 <shachaf> oerjan: to be fair i didn't increase the number of undefined tanebventions
01:43:41 <shachaf> Cognac is oerjan's favorite spirit. Taneb invented it.
01:44:40 <shachaf> There are generic variants of it, but oerjan prefers the type that comes from Cognac because it's name-brandy.
01:44:51 <Zarutian> here is one I read years back on the 'net: Why do not trolls need asbestos suits in flamewars? Because they are as dense as stones.
01:44:56 <HackEgo> Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it.
01:45:16 <shachaf> We need someone with oerjan's wit and wisdom to make a good entry.
01:45:24 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:45:43 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal witty tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:45:45 <Zarutian> for a variation: s/stones/their arguments/
01:46:09 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:46:12 <Zarutian> but then their arguments would be rock solid.
01:47:48 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unknown option to `s'
01:48:00 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:48:50 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:50:28 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:52:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51439&oldid=46066 * Orby * (+114)
01:54:34 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipleasant principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:55:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51440&oldid=51439 * Oerjan * (+0) CDO
01:56:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51441&oldid=51438 * Orby * (+35)
01:56:28 <Zarutian> examplar: An office the plar an certain exam.
02:04:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51442&oldid=51441 * Orby * (+148) /* See also */
02:08:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51443&oldid=51442 * Orby * (+112) /* Loop */
02:10:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51444&oldid=51443 * Orby * (+14)
02:12:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51445&oldid=51444 * Orby * (-11) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
02:13:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51446&oldid=51445 * Orby * (+11) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
02:32:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51447&oldid=51100 * Challenger5 * (+57) /* Partially Silly Ideas */
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02:51:03 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 1d 43m 16s ago: <Jafet> `? ../bin/scheme <-- you do know you can use `cat, right?
02:52:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51448&oldid=51446 * Orby * (+156)
02:52:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$top
02:53:40 <HackEgo> 2/7:^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \ then cat "$topic2"; \ else echo "$
02:53:46 <HackEgo> 2/2: -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \ then cat "$topic2"; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi | rnooooooooodl
02:55:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51449&oldid=51448 * Orby * (-3)
02:57:10 <Jafet> I assume that noooodl is made of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uncooked_anellini_pasta.jpg
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03:09:37 <shachaf> I only looked at the picture and didn't figure it out.
03:10:45 <shachaf> looks like that wisdom entry doesn't exist
03:19:40 <Jafet> `? what did you expect
03:19:41 <HackEgo> what did you expect? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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04:40:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51450&oldid=12479 * Orby * (+808)
04:41:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51451&oldid=51450 * Orby * (+6)
04:43:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51452&oldid=51451 * Orby * (-2)
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05:40:24 <zzo38> In a infinite chess variant one piece can be a piece that can jump orthogonally any distance that is a prime number, and that kind of piece is called "Huygens".
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06:01:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51453&oldid=51452 * Orby * (+106)
06:05:28 <zzo38> I think muxcomp is very good, and would be a very useful operation to have as a direct operation in the computer!!!
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06:16:47 <hppavilion[1]> Seen in my Google News feed: "The 712-page Google doc that proves Muslims do condemn terrorism"
06:18:27 <hppavilion[1]> ...well, yeah, some do, but others obviously don't. When you have a group 1.57 billion strong, trying to make broad statements about the opinions of that group is an exercise in futility.
06:22:36 <zzo38> I think you are correct. Why do you need 712 pages though?
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07:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm not certain why they need 712 pages, since I simultaneously debunked NAD reinforced their claim in 2 lines of plain ASCII, and only using a 40-character subset
07:09:49 <hppavilion[1]> (That's a mere ~1506.106 bits assuming optimal encoding in that subset- which English obviously lacks- but who's counting?)
07:15:32 * hppavilion[1] idly whether the use of 17th-century German typesetting makes him behave differently
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07:38:26 <\oren\> remind me to have myself buried with melon bread so I can bribe satan
07:39:39 <zzo38> \oren\: Do you expect that to help?
07:39:49 <zzo38> (r=>[...r+1e6].map(a=>(r+=r.replace(/./g,x=>1-x)))&&r)("0") Now let's see if I (or you) can improve further golfed
07:44:27 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I know Satan and I don't know whether e likes melon bread.
07:44:39 <zzo38> Make 256 terms of Thue-Morse with JavaScript. (if you change 6 to 9 then you can get 2048 terms)
07:46:04 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: she does according to the anime Gabriel Drop-Out
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11:51:21 <HackEgo> otoh//OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
11:52:20 <HackEgo> Your omnipleasant principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
11:52:29 <HackEgo> 10409:2017-03-13 <oerjän> learn OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
12:00:15 <boily> oerjan really puns?
12:01:12 <shachaf> once swatten, twice punned
12:02:19 * boily thwacks shachaf. 0.85 FP.
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12:25:18 <HackEgo> kiki`: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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12:35:07 <Phantom_Hoover> You know I think the reason TempleOS gets so much attention and praise is just that most programmers never get exposed to new and unconventional ideas unless there's juicy racist schizophrenic drama attached to them
12:35:55 <Phantom_Hoover> It cropped up on /r/programming again yesterday and there is a highly-upvoted comment in there that basically says "this guy is a genius because he made a language with 64-bit ints"
12:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> And it's like, I just cannot see how you would think that's remarkable in any way unless your entire scope of programming knowledge came from writing day-to-day C code.
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12:45:31 <Jafet> I think the reason TempleOS gets so much attention and praise is—wait, it does?
12:47:45 <Phantom_Hoover> oh yeah, it shows up high on /r/programming every month or two
12:52:47 <Jafet> is it in the same sense that feather gets “a lot of attention and praise” in this channel
12:56:16 <Phantom_Hoover> no, if you look in the comments it's a very kid-glove affair between "don't talk about his illness or his insane racist comments further down the page" and "wow this is so technically interesting"
12:59:51 <Phantom_Hoover> but technically it's not actually too interesting, it's a lisp machine with everything running in ring 0
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13:04:49 <Jafet> well we also get a new brainfuck derivative every few days
13:05:17 <Jafet> so brainfuck is also getting “much attention” but it's nothing to really take notice about
13:07:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, right but i think it's an interesting observation
13:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> most of these people have probably never even heard of a lisp machine so when they see something that's essentially a really shitty lisp machine it blows their minds
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13:12:44 <b_jonas> oh great, let's continue talking snobly about those code monkeys who only know about pasting Java or C# snippets from StackOverflow but not about the underlying problem of why that code doesn't work and nothing about how computers really work in the low level or all the insanely complicated abstractions we build over it
13:12:56 <b_jonas> it's always satisfying to assert our superiority
13:13:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I didn't say they were dumb, just that it seems like they don't get much exposure to ideas like that.
13:14:17 <b_jonas> ok, now can you help me with my computer problem? I'm trying to read a pendrive but it says it can't mount it and gives some error message. what am I doing wrong?
13:15:53 <Jafet> you could try to access it with MSSQL
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13:16:07 <b_jonas> Jafet: oh, I haven't tried that yet
13:17:06 <b_jonas> what's the syntax of the ATTACH statement for attaching a pendrive?
13:17:39 <b_jonas> wait, I'll start a github project for that with my MSSQL database password embedded in it so I can show the gist I'm trying
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13:19:15 <Jafet> well, you first need to SELECT it and JOIN it to your computer (an OUTER JOIN if you have accessible USB ports, otherwise an INNER one)
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13:24:23 <b_jonas> I thought I had to do ATTACH first, because some example code I saw did that
13:29:40 <b_jonas> I tried OUTER JOIN "/dev/disk/by-id/ata-SANDISK_EXTREMEPRO_KW64_B0E19A5510APW" ON "/mnt" which I got from an online code sample so it must work, but it gave an error
13:29:57 <b_jonas> is the problem that this code is for MySQL and MS SQL wants square brackets instead of double quotes?
13:30:04 <b_jonas> or is my pendrive just not supported by MS SQL?
13:34:03 <Jafet> this normally happens if you have been using a pirated copy of linux
13:39:10 <b_jonas> Hmm, I'll have to ask my sysadmin then, he's the one who handles downloading and installing cracked software on our machines.
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16:04:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: random-cards: not found
16:04:50 <HackEgo> Ponder \ U \ Sorcery \ Look at the top three cards of your library, then put them back in any order. You may shuffle your library. \ Draw a card. \ LRW-C, M10-C, M12-C
16:04:57 <HackEgo> Voracious Cobra \ 2RG \ Creature -- Snake \ 2/2 \ First strike \ Whenever Voracious Cobra deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature. \ IN-U
16:05:11 <HackEgo> Phyrexian Vatmother \ 2BB \ Creature -- Horror \ 4/5 \ Infect (This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.) \ At the beginning of your upkeep, you get a poison counter. \ MBS-R
16:05:24 <HackEgo> Geier Reach Bandit \ 2R \ Creature -- Human Rogue Werewolf \ 3/2 \ Haste \ At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Geier Reach Bandit. \ [Front face. Transforms into Vildin-Pack Alpha.] \ SOI-R
16:05:49 <HackEgo> Kjeldoran Escort \ 2WW \ Creature -- Human Soldier \ 2/3 \ Banding (Any creatures with banding, and up to one without, can attack in a band. Bands are blocked as a group. If any creatures with banding you control are blocking or being blocked by a creature, you divide that creature's combat damage, not its controller, among any of the creatures it'
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16:21:23 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1#m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:21:25 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: m1 :: [[t]]
16:22:10 <oerjan> it is _right_ there hth
16:22:23 <oerjan> > let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1#m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1] in ()
16:22:25 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: m1 :: [[t]]
16:22:57 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1?m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:22:57 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error in pattern: ?m2
16:23:10 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1&m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:23:25 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘Data.Function.&’,
16:24:05 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1*+m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:25:16 <oerjan> @let im = [[1,0],[0,1]]
16:26:25 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> (foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im
16:26:27 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty’ with actual ...
16:26:46 <oerjan> can never remember the right syntax...
16:26:59 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> ((foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im)
16:27:15 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> ((foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im)
16:27:40 <oerjan> hm maybe Orby's claim is true, then
16:28:36 <oerjan> it seemed too good to be
16:29:40 <oerjan> except, that still would imply SL(2,Z) is the free group on two generators...
16:32:06 <oerjan> wikipedia's modular group article doesn't seem to mention this.
16:33:09 <oerjan> and keeps mixing up SL and PSL
16:34:11 <oerjan> maybe that dyadic monoid thing is related
16:35:09 <oerjan> b_jonas: Orby claims brainfuck's +->< generates a group isomorphic to SL(2,Z)
16:35:40 <oerjan> with + = [[1,0],[1,1]] and > = [[1,1],[0,1]] as matrices
16:36:22 <oerjan> (at the wiki talk page for reversible brainfuck)
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16:38:00 <b_jonas> oerjan: is that trying to something like the continued fraction encoding?
16:38:16 <oerjan> maybe? i haven't grasped how it works yet.
16:38:21 <b_jonas> that is, the tape cells give the terms in the continued fraction
16:38:53 <oerjan> sounds plausible, PSL(2,Z) is all about fractions.
16:41:08 <oerjan> + = \z -> z/(1+z), > = \z -> z+1
16:42:01 <oerjan> let me look up stern-brocot
16:43:44 <oerjan> > rt 1 *+ pl 1 *+ rt (-1)
16:47:19 <oerjan> ah yes, that's precisely it
16:47:44 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calkin%E2%80%93Wilf_tree
16:50:17 <oerjan> as long as you ignore inverses, anyway
16:55:00 <oerjan> the article doesn't mention the z + 1 and z/(z+1) formulas.
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17:04:10 <oerjan> oh wait, +>+< isn't equivalent to >+<+
17:05:50 <oerjan> we're not including output hth
17:06:17 <rdococ> then interpret the . as a comment
17:06:35 <oerjan> > rt (-1) *+ pl 1 *+ rt 1 *+ pl 1
17:06:48 <oerjan> > pl 1 *+ rt (-1) *+ pl 1 *+ rt 1
17:07:27 <rdococ> I experimented with a list data type that stored multiple copies of its data, formatted in different ways for optimal computation speed today.
17:09:03 <rdococ> so, say you have a list {"a", "b", "c", "c"}. asking whether "c" is contained in the list is as easy as looking up the set-formatted version {a=1,b=1,c=2}.
17:13:26 <oerjan> this reminds me how someone (ais523?) mentioned that perl sometimes stores both string and number versions of a value - and although this was meant to be seamless, there was some loophole you could distinguish things with
17:16:20 <rdococ> I'm still working on it, though. it's not completely optimal yet.
17:16:47 <oerjan> hm that @check above cannot possibly be entirely right.
17:19:27 <rdococ> It stores a list as an array, a set, a table of positions, and the inverse position table.
17:20:14 <oerjan> hint: it may not be optimal to calculate all of them before being asked
17:21:00 <oerjan> (afaiu perl only stores both if a conversion's happened)
17:21:01 <rdococ> They're calculated when the list is created. At the moment, I'm trying to get rid of a for loop I still have in the .remove method.
17:21:39 <oerjan> rdococ: i recommend laziness for this hth
17:22:16 <rdococ> Well, going against recommendations such as user-friendliness is kinda esoteric.
17:23:08 <rdococ> I say it's optimised but tbh it requires a sort every time something's inserted
17:23:15 <oerjan> i wasn't talking about user-friendliness, but efficiency hth
17:23:29 <rdococ> but I was giving user-friendliness as an example
17:23:51 <rdococ> if I removed .positions and only kept .array and .set it'd probably work...
17:26:08 <rdococ> you could use it for an ordered inventory
17:26:19 <rdococ> (but you'd probably want .positions too for that)
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17:29:01 <rdococ> I also had the esoteric idea of storing associative arrays as functions that check the parameter against each key in the array. Adding items would be the process of reassigning the variable the array is contained in to a function that checks the parameter against the new key, returning the new value if there is a match, and executing the old list otherwise.
17:30:11 <oerjan> that's pretty much just association lists
17:30:11 <\oren\> rdococ: and every so often an optimizer runs over the whole thing and optimizes it
17:30:38 <b_jonas> In M:tG, OGW has reprinted Mighty Leap but without the elephant? what's the point? it was the armored elephant leaping over buildings that made it fun!
17:30:45 <\oren\> instead of garbage collection you have dead code deletion
17:31:48 <rdococ> another plan is first class classes
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17:34:08 <rdococ> and functions as classes
17:35:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51454&oldid=51453 * Oerjan * (+1007) I don't think that all works
17:35:10 <b_jonas> they're printing a green Curiosity?
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17:38:53 <\oren\> I wonder what year the last magic the gathering card will be printed. ~2060?
17:40:57 <fizzie> oerjan: You can do an explicit special variable where the string and number values have gotten disconnected from each other, at least.
17:41:03 <fizzie> `` perl -e 'use Scalar::Util qw(dualvar); $foo = dualvar(4, "five"); printf "%d is %s", $foo, $foo;'
17:43:30 <fizzie> Scalar::Util's "isdual" is a predicate for that sort of thing, but also detects naturally occurring dualvars from a conversion.
17:44:24 <rdococ> this dual thing is weird.
17:44:32 <rdococ> all the more reason esoteric languages should use it!
17:45:07 <\oren\> I pronounce epitome as /ɛpɪtom/
17:45:52 <oerjan> \oren\ doesn't care about all that stress
17:47:19 <\oren\> fizzie: wut. oh god why
17:51:48 <fizzie> The special variable $! behaves a little similarly (yields integer errno when referred to as a number, but the strerror output when a string), but I believe isn't a string-and-number scalar implementation-wise, but instead a tied scalar.
17:52:24 <fizzie> `` perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
17:52:24 <HackEgo> 1 is Operation not permitted
17:52:46 <fizzie> Handy for decoding errno values.
18:00:28 <oerjan> . o O ( why is assigning to $! not permitted? oh wait... )
18:00:56 <b_jonas> fizzie: doesn't help when everyone prints confusingly translated locale-dependent strerr-formatted strings, rather than numbers like 104 or symbolic constant names like ECONNRESET that you could easily look up.
18:02:08 <oerjan> `` LANG=no_nb.UTF-8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:02:09 <HackEgo> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. \ perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: \ LANGUAGE = (unset), \ LC_ALL = (unset), \ LANG = "no_nb.UTF-8" \ are supported and installed on your system. \ perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). \ 1 is Operation not permitted
18:02:35 <rdococ> is Perl still confusing 4 for five?
18:02:36 <oerjan> `` LANG=de.UTF-8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:02:36 <HackEgo> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. \ perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: \ LANGUAGE = (unset), \ LC_ALL = (unset), \ LANG = "de.UTF-8" \ are supported and installed on your system. \ perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). \ 1 is Operation not permitted
18:02:56 <rdococ> well, if four is five then everyone is donald trump
18:04:01 <oerjan> `` LANG=de_DE.utf8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:04:02 <HackEgo> 1 is Die Operation ist nicht erlaubt
18:04:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: wrong locale names. try nb_NO.utf8 or de_DE.utf8
18:04:50 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes. language first, then country after underscore
18:04:51 <oerjan> `` LANG=nb_NO.utf8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:04:53 <HackEgo> 1 is Operasjonen er ikke tillatt
18:05:22 <oerjan> neither of which applies to the nb/nn distinction :P
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18:08:25 <rdococ> and 1 is "love. 1 is life."
18:08:46 <rdococ> Actually, I am kinda wrong. dualvar(1, "love") =/= dualvar(1, "life").
18:20:21 <zzo38> How to install a .deb given the filename (or URL) instead of a package name?
18:23:08 <rdococ> dualvar(e*x*e, "deb") and suddenly even a windows user can do it :p
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18:50:16 <rdococ> what about a language with phunctions
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18:56:39 <erkin> phunctional phreaks
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18:59:04 <hppavilion[1]> Quick initialism poll: how would *you expand "SQ3R"? Would it be "SQRRR" or "SQQQR"?
19:00:01 <Taneb> Like h2g2 => *h*itch*h*iker's *g*uide to the *g*alaxy
19:00:26 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: SQQQR because I'm an algebraist who writes the function on the right or as a superscript index, and the argument on the left
19:03:32 <HackEgo> 7437:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn GOD is GOD over djinn
19:03:52 <HackEgo> god//GOD is GOD over djinn.
19:04:10 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1XD5sc5NI0
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19:43:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51455&oldid=51454 * Orby * (+323)
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19:46:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51456&oldid=51455 * Orby * (+67)
19:49:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51457&oldid=51456 * Orby * (+306)
19:53:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51458&oldid=51457 * Orby * (+120)
19:54:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51459&oldid=51458 * Orby * (+12)
19:55:52 <\oren\> moemrization is key to pasword security. the more moe the more secure
19:57:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51460&oldid=51459 * Orby * (+86)
19:58:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51461&oldid=51460 * Orby * (+66)
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20:01:12 <zzo38> Do you know if there is a better way to do this than using 7-Zip? diff <(7z e -so libasound2_1.0.25-1ubuntu10.2_i386.deb | tar xO ./usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf) /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf
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20:59:12 <\oren\> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797734694
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21:18:39 <\oren\> I still want my damn swastikas back for germany, they shouldn't use a flag that never existed
21:19:02 <\oren\> stupid games and their fake flags
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22:20:11 <uczy> ... Consider a two dimensional homoiconic programming environment
22:21:15 <uczy> There are only few languages who relay as much control into the execution environment itself as possible (OISC, BitBitJump, /// etc.).
22:21:54 <uczy> On another note, has anyone written a quine in a 2d-language?
22:22:59 <uczy> I think its hilarious that you can rotate programs
22:23:49 <uczy> "rotation invariant quine"
22:24:39 <int-e> \oren\: you might be interested in the fact that displaying those symbols is illegal in several countries, with narrow exceptions that don't extend to video games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legality_of_Nazi_flags
22:25:38 <shachaf> int-e: are you sure \oren\ can legally click that link hth
22:26:03 <shachaf> Is there a 2D language where programs are preserved under rotations and reflections?
22:27:17 <uczy> shachaf: I have no idea, but would love to find out. I suppose its possible
22:27:41 <shachaf> Seems like it wouldn't be difficult.
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22:30:59 <int-e> shachaf: I'm assuming that that page is fine even under German law because of the context that merely describes the legal situation and is therefore primarily educational, without any propaganda angle.
22:31:07 <shachaf> uczy: Chatzilla's default ircname is terrible.
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22:31:53 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm sure there are some of them, at least for a suitable definition of "rotation". I think noit o' mnain worb if you adjust the diodes appropriately.
22:32:14 <int-e> At the same time, those illustrations are absent from the german Wikipedia's page about §86a StGB.
22:32:38 <int-e> In any case Canada seems to be more relaxed about this so \oren\ should be fine.
22:32:44 <fizzie> As for quines, there's definitely Befunge ones. Some of them don't even cheat with g.
22:32:49 <uczy> The Swastika is invariant under rotation, too
22:33:09 <int-e> uczy: okay, turn it by 13°...
22:33:55 <uczy> int-e: you are right (13°)
22:34:36 * Zarutian never understood why the National Socialist party in Germany was so unimaginative to use the logo of Eimskip tilted 45° degrees
22:35:08 <shachaf> int-e: what do you think of this contention: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7ohmFhWkAAbh6D.jpg
22:37:56 <int-e> hard to say with a sample of 1 out of 4.
22:41:49 <int-e> Not at its current price, won't happen.
22:43:42 <shachaf> At what price would it happen?
22:43:58 <shachaf> Next you'll demand a story.
22:44:25 <int-e> I think it's a puzzle game so maybe it can do without a story.
22:45:41 <int-e> But I don't think I want to pay a double digit price for it. Too many other games to play.
22:47:22 <int-e> My most recent addition is Ori and the Blind Forest.
22:47:30 <shachaf> Ah, I played that recently.
22:47:52 <int-e> (For EUR 10, which may actually be less than it's worth.)
22:48:38 <int-e> It has gorgeous graphics and - probably - a story. I just started.
22:49:33 <shachaf> Is it the "Definitive Edition"?
22:50:42 <fizzie> I've watched someone in the internet play that game through.
22:51:20 <shachaf> Were they doing it as quickly as they could?
22:51:26 <int-e> Obduction is on my to-play list, somewhere, but after Myst V I'm a bit skeptical about the game. So... waiting for a cheap offer :-P
22:51:40 <fizzie> I don't remember if it was a speedrun.
22:53:17 <int-e> shachaf: and that's basically why I find most retail prices too high; there are *a lot* of good computer games, and few that I really crave; for most purposes they are quite fungible, so the cheap ones determine what I'm willing to pay.
22:53:47 <shachaf> But the time that you spend playing them is surely much more valuable than the price.
22:53:51 <int-e> so actually, the prices may be fine, because they're not for me but for those who actually want that particular game.
22:54:09 <int-e> We've had this discussion
22:54:22 <int-e> the time I spend on the game is an extra investment.
22:54:26 <shachaf> Ah, I thought I'd talked about that in here.
22:55:10 <Zarutian> wasnt there an general advice in the end credits of an computer game that said that if you paid more that 20 bucks for a game then you overpaid for it?
22:55:56 <int-e> Monkey island had something like that. Though I forgot the pricise amount.
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22:57:43 <int-e> 'Guybrush commented to Elaine that at least he’d learned something from this whole experience, and when she asked what it was, I was given the chance to choose between three dialogue responses. I chose “Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game”, just to see what would happen. Elaine asked me what I was talking about, and the game’s fitting final sentence was “I don’t know,...
22:57:49 <int-e> ...I’m not sure why I said that.”'
22:59:09 <shachaf> int-e: Did you play _Spider and Web_, though?
22:59:18 <int-e> shachaf: still unfinished :P
22:59:30 * int-e is good at leaving games unfinished.
23:00:12 <shachaf> kmc_: did you play that game
23:00:17 <boily> int-ellonkey island, helloochaf.
23:00:20 <shachaf> http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/
23:01:24 <kmc_> i did play day of the tentacle though
23:01:36 <int-e> kmc_: excellent game
23:02:24 <int-e> The remake is nice, they included an "original mode" with the original graphics, and they do include the Maniac Mansion easter egg.
23:02:38 <kmc_> ah I didnt know there was a remake!
23:02:57 <quintopia> but i havent finished grim fandango yet
23:03:02 <shachaf> Did I get the remake as part of that Humble Bundle thing?
23:03:09 <int-e> It's the same game with better graphics.
23:03:16 <fizzie> We had that guy give a talk at work.
23:03:40 <int-e> (Just to be clear what "remake" means here. They didn't touch the story or puzzles as far as I could see.)
23:03:45 <shachaf> Thimbleweed Park is coming out in a few days.
23:03:55 <fizzie> That's what he was mostly talking about.
23:04:20 <fizzie> I didn't start that kicker, though.
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23:06:32 <shachaf> I didn't remember anything about it but I got an email today so I must've.
23:06:36 <fizzie> He told a nice story about how he wanted to have the Maniac Mansion arcade machines be playable, but they just couldn't fit that in, so now in Thimbleweed Park when there's an arcade, he was decided to finally fix that, given that there's much less technological restrictions.
23:06:40 <fizzie> Then they ran out of time and they're still not playable.
23:06:48 <fizzie> But apparently this time there might be a patch later.
23:07:01 <int-e> I'm hoping for a remake of Sam&Max hit the road :)
23:08:32 <fizzie> Sonic Generations has an in-game copy of Sonic 1, but only on the consoles, not in the PC version.
23:09:24 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you play _Spider and Web_?
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23:10:24 <shachaf> Oh, well, it's good and pretty short.
23:10:35 <shachaf> If you like these text-based games, anyway.
23:10:37 <shachaf> http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/
23:12:08 <fizzie> I like those that are a little more forgiving than the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy game.
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23:12:47 <shachaf> In that game you have to feed the dog the sandwich in the very beginning, or else you can't win.
23:13:02 <shachaf> Unless you become that other person and feed the dog the sandwich.
23:13:10 <shachaf> But even that's only one more chance.
23:14:28 <shachaf> fizzie: Anyway, if you type "help" the game will explain exactly how forgiving it is.
23:14:55 <int-e> The hitchhiker text adventure?
23:15:15 <int-e> I never got to the point (without a walkthrough) where you'd lose because of not feeding the dog :P
23:15:22 <int-e> That game was hard.
23:15:22 <shachaf> The sandwich thing is in hhgg.z3
23:15:34 <shachaf> The "help" thing is in S&W
23:15:47 <int-e> I meant the sandwich thing.
23:16:19 <int-e> (hhgg = Hitch Hiker to the Galaxy... Game?)
23:16:42 <int-e> (yes, I realized a moment too late)
23:16:52 <shachaf> If I remember correctly, you go into a tiny spaceship where everyone is mad at you for typing something wrong.
23:16:58 <fizzie> "For instance, at the end of the game, Marvin will ask you for a specific tool to repair the ship with. The tool required is randomly selected from a pool of ten—except that if you are missing any one of those ten items, then the game will always choose that one. So, if you left the toothbrush in your bedroom at the beginning of the game, then you'll be forced to start over completely."
23:17:01 <shachaf> And then the dog eats the spaceship.
23:17:17 <shachaf> But if you feed the dog a sandwich, it doesn't, and then the people are all thankful.
23:17:34 <shachaf> My memory may be faulty. Why would it be a spaceship if there's a dog?
23:17:36 <int-e> I do recall that you actually see the dog swallow the space ship.
23:18:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Well, at least the natural instinct of "pick up everything you can" will save you there.
23:18:11 <shachaf> Except your inventory is limited.
23:18:18 <int-e> Whereas if you feed it, there's something like "and ignores a passing microscopic spaceshipp swooping by"
23:18:33 <shachaf> But you can put extra things in the thing that your aunt gave you that you don't know what it is.
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23:18:49 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes⁺?
23:18:52 <int-e> Anyway that's where the footnotes come from, I think.
23:19:09 <HackEgo> 10534:2017-03-27 <shachäf> forget footnote 1 \ 9240:2016-10-12 <boil̈y> ` sed -i \'s/\\./\xe2\x81\xb8./\' wisdom/footnote\\ 1 \ 6418:2015-12-19 <int-̈e> le/rn footnote 1/May contain nuts.
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23:19:24 <shachaf> Maybe I should only have undone 9240
23:19:57 <int-e> shachaf: I think you're right about that 12 too. (In that the 12th footnote in the game is the one that says "Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes")
23:19:59 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/footnote 1'
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23:20:38 <shachaf> http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Footnote claims that it was 11.
23:22:03 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: that would be slow?
23:24:16 <hppavilion[1]> (sorry, I just turned my computer on and my IDE is yet to launch, so this channel is my entertainment, which boily s down to unfunny commentary)
23:24:20 <int-e> ¬wiki = lohi, apparently
23:25:06 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Then maybe don't do that?
23:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> (Luckily, my keyboard ſkript was broken, leading to me being unable to type the uppercaſe "E" back there, so I got to fix that. Yaaaay.)
23:25:54 <boily> hppavellon. eh? what's a "s down unfunny"?
23:26:45 <int-e> boily: I think it was a lohi pun.
23:27:11 * boily is throughly confuzzled
23:27:33 <int-e> Then think like hppavilion[1].
23:27:53 <int-e> "lohi" means "slow" in Hawaiian.
23:27:54 * boily gleefully thwacks hppavilion[1]. *thwack thwack thwack* :D
23:28:21 <int-e> So it *is* the opposite of wiki.
23:30:15 * Zarutian thought that lohi meant low to high edge transistion
23:30:46 <hppavilion[1]> Unfortunately, I alſo ſeem to have ſucked up ſome of the other characters, with a recent edit to kb.ahk, ſo I'm conſtantly having to fix newly-diſcovered problems.
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23:34:53 <hppavilion[1]> It might juſt be Firefox's doing (which would make me ſad), or it could be that the caſe normalization part of the DNS ſpecial caſes ſ=s=S (which would make me leſs sad, but ſtill diſappointed), but I *really* hope that Google actually subdomained in the URL tranſlate.google.com.
23:36:03 <shachaf> I'm sure you can figure out which one it is if you try.
23:36:09 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm uſing Unifraktur Maguntia 16 as my client font, ſo the ſs are juſt thematic following)
23:36:17 <shachaf> But maybe you can do it without typing ſs into the channel.
23:37:36 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I've been wondering what you do about ſs when using acronyms, initialisms, and choponyms ever since I typed "DNS" earlier.
23:38:05 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], "ſ" is lower case
23:38:10 <hppavilion[1]> boily: An ad-hoc hyponym I just invented for an abbreviation formed by ending the word earlier
23:38:32 <Taneb> And it capitalises to S
23:39:40 <boily> fungot: nostril. you're making more sense than hppavilion[1].
23:39:40 <fungot> boily: no, you'd have to write a parser once if the value is from g and b both being arguments is good, but it
23:39:58 <boily> fungot: is hppavilion[1] context-free?
23:39:58 <fungot> boily: i don't call that a feature intended for optimization would be implemented in a lambda-based language. :) what were you writing that you're running into it that they " provide" or " lee"
23:42:35 * Zarutian hands, without any explantion, an oyster to boily
23:44:41 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3454#appendix-B.2 is (supposed to be) used for IDN, and it maps ſ to s. So you're out of luck.
23:44:56 * boily considers the oyster. om mani padme hum.
23:45:54 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Some acronyms aren't written in allcaps. Especially in Europe.
23:46:28 <int-e> (chain of RFCs: 4343 --> 3491 --> 3454)
23:46:36 <Taneb> I think the thing to remember is that the elongated s is a handwriting convention
23:47:41 <int-e> It used to exist in typesetting too, but in common usage only a ligature survives, ß.
23:48:06 <int-e> (and that's limited to one language)
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23:50:24 <shachaf> LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FOREIGN FUNCTION INTERFACE
23:52:01 <\oren\> oh wait no, that's ʃ not ſ
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00:28:47 <lambdabot> PAMR 272253Z 00000KT 10SM BKN065 BKN090 M01/M11 A2941 RMK AO2 SLP960 T10061111
00:31:42 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: you gotten under \oren\'s shell? (I am infereing from tectonics -> an tectomy having similiar origin with 'plates')
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00:32:31 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: PAMR is within spitting distance of my house.
00:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Hm, maybe there should be medicinal roots for computers
00:33:20 <hppavilion[1]> (I mean, obviously not really medicinal, but still
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00:44:36 <hppavilion[1]> Ad hoc modification to a local library to make it work which does not apply to other installations
00:50:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51462&oldid=51461 * Oerjan * (+1164) More groups and some infinite babbling
00:53:06 * oerjan fake group theory expert
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00:57:34 <fizzie> Now is that fake (group theory), or (fake group) theory?
00:58:01 <fizzie> I guess I should've included the 'expert' bit in there as well.
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00:58:49 <fizzie> Could be a fake ((group theory) expert), a (fake (group theory)) expert or a ((fake group) theory) expert.
01:00:07 <Jafet> they're × all × equivalent × hth
01:01:27 <oerjan> up to natural equivalence only
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01:53:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tangle bracket language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51463&oldid=44677 * Hppavilion1 * (+598) Updated page; hopefully it explains the subject matter better.
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02:42:29 <tswett_to_go> I've decided that from now on, I'm going to speak primarily in noun phrases.
02:43:25 <tswett_to_go> Type systems. Dependent typing. Formal systems. Category theory.
02:44:30 <tswett_to_go> Procrastination. Programming. Database query language. Databases.
02:44:45 <tswett_to_go> The various relationships between databases and category theory.
02:47:53 <tswett_to_go> The thought, "Look, I can just cheat by sticking an entire sentence inside of a noun phrase."
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03:55:06 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Did you make a bot that emulates you when you aren't around
04:06:34 <HackEgo> cat: insanity: No such file or directory
04:06:52 <HackEgo> Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entity.
04:08:58 <oerjan> `# You are just imagining this typo, too//`slwd insanity//s,it,r,
04:08:59 <HackEgo> insanity//Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entry.
04:12:28 <tswett_to_go> [[Noncommutative government of Australia]] and [[Alabama]] and [[Characters of Alabama]] and [[American Samoa]] and [[Alabama]] and [[Alabama American Australia | align="right"
04:12:42 <tswett_to_go> My favorite country is definitely Alabama American Australia.
04:20:42 <rdococ> Asstec civilization :P
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04:54:48 <doesthiswork> so I was thinking about negative concord vs double negation and I thought of a half negation
04:55:20 <doesthiswork> so to negate a sentence you have to stick in two half negations
04:55:58 <doesthiswork> I got it working but it requires four value logic
04:56:52 <doesthiswork> so that a sentence's true and its falsity can be independent of each other.
04:58:16 <doesthiswork> a half negation can work be exchanging the truth and falsity of a sentence and then negating the falsity
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04:59:14 <doesthiswork> so two in a row just negate both truth and falsity and leave them in their original places
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05:02:48 <doesthiswork> I was inspired by the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do"
05:06:39 <rdococ> quantum computing has that
05:10:20 <rdococ> anyway, we all know that four wrongs make an up
05:11:07 <tswett_to_go> What's the square root of the matrix [[0,1][1,0]]?
05:11:10 <rdococ> (and two ups makes a reverse)
05:11:12 <doesthiswork> Quantum computing probably does, since they talk about rotating qbits
05:11:50 <rdococ> tswett_to_go: depends what you're multiplying it with. but seeing it's a reverse identity matrix, I guess that's obvious
05:12:05 <rdococ> well, it might depend. might not.
05:12:48 <tswett_to_go> Wolfie says it's [[1,-i][-i,1]] times a constant.
05:14:26 <tswett_to_go> (1+i)/2 * (|0⟩⟨0| - i |0⟩⟨1| - i |1⟩⟨0| + |1⟩⟨1|)
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06:08:06 <hppavilion[1]> tswett_to_go: Better question: what's 2^[[0,1][1,0]]
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09:48:39 <Taneb> 2^x = e^(x*ln 2), right? And matrix exponentials are well-defined
09:48:50 <Taneb> So I guess one can work out 2^[[0,1][1,0]]
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11:50:06 <HackEgo> john//John is not Hziulquoigmnzhah of Cykranosh, the dread spawn of Cxaxukluth, according to http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4072
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12:50:31 <b_jonas> argh. ok, so some googling says that what I found is a genuine bug,
12:51:00 <b_jonas> where the debian kernel was upgraded without increasing its version number, which means it's *supposed* to have the same abi for modules, but actually doesn't,
12:51:17 <b_jonas> so indeed my older kernel doesn't match the newer modules, even if they have the same version number.
12:52:11 <b_jonas> I'll have to work this around in some way to run the newer kernel.
12:52:24 <b_jonas> I didn't even know they update kernel images without increasing the version number
12:52:45 <b_jonas> I should have suspected, because they so rarely increment the version number, but I did ask about that and they said they don't do that
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14:36:21 <uczy> What is the fastest way to bootstrap from an extremely simple esolang to a high level language VM?
14:38:10 <uczy> Something like https://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher
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14:53:57 <uczy> If I can compile C code to a series of mov instructions (https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator) then the reverse use case should also be possible
15:00:51 <Zarutian> uczy: write an Forth inner interpreter in that esolang. Run something likse scheme.fs ontop and I think that the goal will have been met.
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15:16:02 <uczy> b_jonas: You'll hate BitBitJump even more
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17:10:31 <oerjan> <Taneb> 2^x = e^(x*ln 2), right? And matrix exponentials are well-defined <-- afair you can apply any function that is holomorphic on the matrix's spectrum, in this case {-1,+1}. And since it's unitary you can extend that to continuous functions... well for matrices the spectrum is finite, so i guess that's all functions.
17:11:52 <oerjan> hm for the first part, it might need to be holomorphic in an open connected set containing the spectrum, or something. (a disk is certainly enough, then you have power series.)
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17:12:44 <oerjan> (i think which connected set you choose might actually matter if there are branch cuts involved)
17:15:09 <oerjan> (hm, an annulus would give a laurent series)
17:15:21 <int-e> spectrum = set of eigenvalues?
17:16:02 <int-e> (it's funny, I knew about "spectral radius" but I don't think I've seen "spectrum")
17:17:20 <oerjan> it's a more subtle concept in infinite-dimensional banach algebras, where you define it as the set of l such that lI - A is invertible.
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17:18:33 <oerjan> and it's not necessarily finite, but always compact.
17:19:12 <int-e> lI <-- that's evil.
17:19:29 <int-e> but shouldn't it be "not invertible"?
17:20:34 <int-e> I like my linear algebra finite-dimensional and discrete. finite base fields are perfect.
17:20:54 <oerjan> OKAY. that's good, i was wondering if i was telling you things you already knew.
17:20:55 <int-e> (though obviously I'm not using spectral radii there)
17:21:21 <int-e> finite fields are slightly unordered.
17:21:51 <oerjan> hm _someone's_ bound to have investigated this stuff with p-adics
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17:23:05 <int-e> I think I like "disorderly", at least for this channel.
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17:25:18 <HackEgo> U+039B GREEK CAPITAL LETTER LAMDA \ UTF-8: ce 9b UTF-16BE: 039b Decimal: Λ \ Λ (λ) \ Lowercase: U+03BB \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+03BB GREEK SMALL LETTER LAMDA \ UTF-8: ce bb UTF-16BE: 03bb Decimal: λ \ λ (Λ) \ Uppercase: U+039B \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \
17:26:18 <oerjan> the eigenvalue stuff might still work for finite fields, maybe? determinants work for all commutative rings.
17:26:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Btzy * New user account
17:27:04 <oerjan> anyway, the l was supposed to be a lambda, but i was lazy.
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17:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, the Clavinova I'm using has 5 buttons to switch instruments
17:39:18 <hppavilion[1]> 4 of the instruments are familiar, at least somewhat: Piano, Electric Piano, Harpsicord, and Pipe Organ
17:39:29 <hppavilion[1]> But one of them is "Clavitone", which AFAICT isn't a real instrument.
17:41:42 <fizzie> A clavichord is, though.
17:44:03 <fizzie> GM1 instrument 8 is officially called just "Clavi", but apparently it's short for Clavinet, which is a kind of clavichord.
17:44:57 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: I noticed it actually just says "Clavi. Chord"
17:45:23 <hppavilion[1]> But there's a line break and the period is REALLY light; my brain skipped it because I thought it was just a speck of dust.
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17:59:38 <int-e> oerjan: I didn't mind the use of l, I just had trouble distinguishing it from the I.
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18:00:47 <oerjan> i could have used l1 :P
18:01:10 <oerjan> it's a perfectly servicably multiplicative unit, after all
18:02:03 <int-e> . o O ( eI - A <-- let's just pick "e" for "eigenvalue" *runs* )
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18:02:38 <hppavilion[1]> My 5 autohotkey scripts formed a glider in the tray.
18:02:38 <int-e> . o O ( It's a natural choice! )
18:02:41 <rdococ> now I need ideas for a new data type. again. :/
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18:03:37 <rdococ> Square root of an integral!
18:03:40 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Oh, no. Intervals as in a range of real numbers
18:04:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ⟨0 → 1⟩ is every real number from 0 to 1 inclusive
18:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: You might have seen it written the peasant way, as [0, 1]
18:05:13 <rdococ> Oh, I prefer (1 from 0). Now it's an intercal. :P
18:05:44 <shachaf> Is that supposed to express an orientation?
18:06:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: rdococ's notation with it backwards? Not sure.
18:06:58 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> It must be a sign. <-- "get a life", he said, hypocritically.
18:06:59 <shachaf> Certainly your manifolds need an orientation.
18:07:57 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I had a life, but I sold it in exchange for someone's soul so I could trade the soul to a nice man I met at the crossroads
18:11:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: But intervals are an interesting data type that should be used more; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_arithmetic
18:13:25 <rdococ> You would have to use "x but y" in place of "x and y" if y doesn't like x very much.
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18:23:12 <rdococ> partially settish arrays?
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18:28:38 <rdococ> {1=a, 2=b, 3=b, c=true}
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20:24:01 <hppavilion[1]> ...well, I just accidentally identified with Nickserv using ` instead of /
20:24:14 <hppavilion[1]> So I sent my password to HackEgo in PM. Do I need to change it now?
20:25:09 <HackEgo> cat: bin/msg: No such file or directory
20:25:39 <shachaf> Please keep your HackEgo accidental password typing to the public channel in the future.
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20:48:06 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: I believe it does get logged into a file, so from that point of view, maybe.
20:48:48 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: OK, I think I still have a couple other things with that password.
20:53:11 <fizzie> 20:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Example:
20:53:11 <fizzie> 20:53 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- /msg NickServ SET PASSWORD swordfish
20:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> /msg NickServ SETPASS requires <account>, <key>, and <newpass>. The key is emailed to you before you change your password, but I don't know how to get the key sent
20:53:42 <fizzie> You would use SENDPASS & SETPASS if you had forgotten your existing password.
20:53:52 <fizzie> But since you can identify, you can just use SET PASSWORD.
20:54:07 <fizzie> It's not at all confusing that SETPASS and SET PASSWORD do entirely different things.
21:01:22 <shachaf> Using the same password for lots of things is scow.
21:01:46 <shachaf> Speaking of which, should I generate account passwords from a master password and account name?
21:01:51 <shachaf> If so, how should I do it?
21:02:45 <shachaf> I do it now but I use a bad algorithm.
21:02:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yeah, I'm working on killing all the repeated passwords, because I just got a new password generator
21:03:31 <hppavilion[1]> I do have a convention to generate 20+n character passwords, where n is some easy-to-remember string related to the site (such as its name)
21:03:59 <shachaf> n is a string or a number?
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21:07:21 <\oren\> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7BlMNqWsAIV4o3.jpg:large
21:07:33 <\oren\> europe according to erdogan
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21:28:15 <\oren\> I prefer the notation {x;0≤x≤1}
21:28:37 <\oren\> makes it perfectly clear what it is
21:31:33 <\oren\> or you could define it externally: let A be the smallest closed, connected subset of ℝ containing both 1 and 0.
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21:46:17 <\oren\> test of skill: grep -r "url_pattern" . | grep -v "\.js" > wtf.txt
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21:47:07 <\oren\> can you tell why this is so wrong?
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22:37:20 <moonythedwarf> I've been thinking about the possibility, that, if you took The Powder Toy and made it have a infinite grid, it would be turing complete. It is already a finite state machine i think, so thats pretty likely (See all the computers in it ;) ) but i was wondering if there was a way for me to get proof
22:40:14 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like a wave with a period of 1 microsecond (μs) should have a frequency of 1 Megahert (1 MHz)
22:40:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51464&oldid=51449 * Orby * (+170) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
22:42:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51465&oldid=51464 * Orby * (+78) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
22:48:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Do you think a Quantity Calculus-based programming language would be interesting?
22:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> I think it would be not only interesting, but potentially-useful.
22:52:06 <Phantom_Hoover> moonythedwarf, well it directly includes wireworld which is TC
22:53:24 <moonythedwarf> mm true, how about if it didnt have wireworld an life? And only used its Circuit syste,.
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22:55:17 <Phantom_Hoover> given the sophistication of the computers people have built in it i guarantee you can build a minsky machine using piston as the register
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23:05:59 -!- boily has set topic: Is it the Future Now? | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
23:06:05 <HackEgo> unlambda//``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci
23:06:27 <boily> . o O ( à cause qu'unlambda est trivial? )
23:06:30 <HackEgo> 1/2:m–rdalsjökull//M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. \ cut elimination//The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator. \ imagine//Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on
23:06:34 <HackEgo> 2/2: the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs. \ love//Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more \ diagram//A diagram is just a functor.
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23:07:20 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. FUNGOSTRIL!
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23:19:45 <fungot> boily: no problem, i find there's also stack overflow, the stack height is constant, while just q is not. if anything he's overqualified for the position of a combination of the plt mailing list
23:21:12 <fungot> Zarutian: i think so :) i'm trying to think of a way to increment each one at each subsequent iteration to the values of the right-hand sides of macro definitions and start/ end of line
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23:29:31 <boily> Zarutellon. beetlewax?
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23:32:32 <Zarutian> for the folks wagen owners to let their pride shine
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23:37:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51466 * Orby * (+2709) Created page for Picofuck project
23:38:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51467 * Orby * (+522) Creating talk page
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23:39:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51468&oldid=51466 * Orby * (+30) /* PF languages */
23:41:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51469&oldid=51467 * Orby * (-15) Fixing sloppy grammar :)
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23:46:08 <izabera> so i have half an idea for a video game
23:46:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:the five wisdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom. \ egobot//EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. \ kanada//Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrugviolation//Violation is the act of playing an
23:46:26 <Zarutian> izabera: lets here it! Is it an Astroid clone isnt it? ;-Þ
23:46:41 <HackEgo> 2/2: instrument in the viola family.
23:47:05 <HackEgo> Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug
23:47:06 <Zarutian> but seriously you tweeked my curiousity
23:47:22 <izabera> Zarutian: you're a blue ball thingy and your opponent is a red ball thingy
23:47:34 <izabera> your initial mass is 100 units
23:47:42 <izabera> you shoot bullets to your opponent
23:47:57 <izabera> these bullets are taken from your mass
23:48:06 <izabera> and you shrink a bit every time you shoot
23:48:15 <izabera> and you're in a room with blue and red walls
23:48:27 <izabera> if a bullet hits a wall, it becomes the color of that wall
23:48:42 <izabera> and if it's blue you can pick it up and your mass grows a bit
23:48:48 <Zarutian> what happens when bullets hit a ball of the same colour?
23:49:02 <izabera> nothing, they get reassorbed
23:49:19 <izabera> when you shoot and hit your opponent, your bullet is destroyed and your opponent loses 2 mass units
23:49:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51470&oldid=51468 * Orby * (+404) Defining RBF
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23:50:08 <izabera> if you reach 0 mass units you die and your opponent wins
23:50:10 <Zarutian> so the tactics is to get your opponent to shoot bullets that become your colour so you can gain mass to shoot them?
23:50:36 <HackEgo> 4467:2014-02-19 <km̈c> printf "Your bankers\' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug" > wisdom/kanada
23:50:52 <Zarutian> izabera: I have a name for your game idea: Effective Mass
23:51:21 <oerjan> `` printf "\n" >>wisdom/kanada
23:51:25 <izabera> i think the idea is somewhat similar to locoroco
23:51:38 <Zarutian> never heard of it until now I think
23:51:41 <HackEgo> Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug
23:51:42 <izabera> but in locoroco you don't shoot
23:51:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51471&oldid=44511 * Orby * (+82) Adding Picofuck
23:52:21 <shachaf> you should test it by running `5 w repeatedly until it comes up again hth
23:53:47 <HackEgo> 1/2:progress bar//<fizzie> ▏ ▎ ▍ ▌ ▋ ▊ ▉ █ hth \ superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!! \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction. \ zzo38mtg//http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
23:53:50 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ in//In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
23:53:51 <Zarutian> izabera: well, now hear me out. I have an mechanism idea for RPG-like social interaction game that is mostly offline or does not require low latency online connection.
23:53:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51472&oldid=51469 * Orby * (+0)
23:54:17 <HackEgo> 7445:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. \ 7444:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In your dreams, sucker!
23:54:37 <shachaf> `slwd in//s/Columbus/Jesus/
23:54:39 <HackEgo> in//In 1492 Jesus sailed the ocean blue.
23:55:06 <Zarutian> izabera: are you familiar with the idea of anti-objects? That is using emergent behaviour as an programming model?
23:55:20 <oerjan> herbal? i must be missing a pun.
23:55:30 <izabera> uh not sure, never heard of them
23:56:15 <Zarutian> izabera: one example is ghost pathfinding in a pacman clone. Each tile of the maze maintains pacman smell and tells its neighbouring tiles.
23:56:36 <HackEgo> 9284:2016-10-14 <alercäh> learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
23:57:27 <Zarutian> izabera: So the pacman smell diffuses through out the maze. What the ghost then simply do is to move to a neighbouring tile that has higher pac man smell than the tile they are on.
23:58:07 <HackEgo> Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
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23:59:17 <izabera> Zarutian: and how do you use this?
23:59:24 <Zarutian> izabera: what I thought of is to use a similiar mechanism to do path finding to exits inside an snell|room|map-part of an RPG and other such things of intrest to NPCs and possibly mobs.
23:59:55 <HackEgo> megalun//megalun is a chain of a million SCSI devices. FreeFull weighs 482 of them.
23:59:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Programmer5000 * New user account
00:00:16 <FreeFull> I don't remember why that wisdom says that
00:00:40 <Zarutian> izabera: you use, in the pacman, example to do pathfinding for the ghosts to wherever pacman is.
00:00:49 <boily> FreelloFull. I can't remember either...
00:01:53 <izabera> once a ghost gets on a path where pacman walked
00:02:05 <izabera> they'll just keep chasing it
00:02:17 <izabera> without ever making any variation
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00:02:45 <alercah> I was probably drunk off tired
00:02:56 <Zarutian> izabera: the smell decays over time.
00:03:18 <Zarutian> izabera: which means that they follow a 'track' until they come across a stronger one.
00:03:48 <izabera> yeah but why would there ever be a stronger one?
00:04:06 <Zarutian> izabera: and the smell, remember, slowly percolates through the whole maze.
00:04:38 <Zarutian> it took me a while to get it too
00:04:56 <izabera> i got there and it doesn't work -.-
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00:06:25 <Zarutian> izabera: what I thought of is to use this kind of path finding to implement disturbance-robust replay of other players actions. With strong checkpoints like „Player Lugio bought one bread from baker Smith“.
00:07:13 <Zarutian> izabera: it is more of an diffusing gradient than something like ant-smell.
00:09:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51473&oldid=51470 * Orby * (+124) /* Simple translation */
00:10:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51474&oldid=51473 * Orby * (+92) /* Simple translation */
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00:11:51 <Zarutian> izabera: So, this mechanism is just one part of trainable bothaviour kind of system. (Bothaviours are behaviours that players avatars do when their players are not logged in. But it is generalized here)
00:12:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51475&oldid=51472 * Orby * (+82)
00:12:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51476&oldid=51475 * Oerjan * (+0) /* PFC0 */ Seems backwards
00:13:07 <Zarutian> izabera: only the training happens for your avatar as you play the game.
00:13:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51477&oldid=51474 * Orby * (-1) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
00:14:03 <Zarutian> but now I am wondering if it would be too creepy
00:14:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51478&oldid=51477 * Orby * (+70)
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00:15:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51479&oldid=51478 * Orby * (-6)
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00:16:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51480&oldid=51479 * Orby * (-17) Removing redundant verbage
00:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51481&oldid=51480 * Orby * (-24) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
00:20:05 <izabera> Zarutian: so this is a way to have your character move while you're not online?
00:24:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51482&oldid=51465 * Orby * (+67) /* See also */
00:25:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51483&oldid=51481 * Oerjan * (+205) /* Reversible Boolfuck */ Simple translation
00:27:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51484&oldid=51483 * Oerjan * (+4) /* Reversible Boolfuck */ Use Unicode arrows
00:28:12 <Zarutian> izabera: yes and to see other players characters move while playing offline
00:28:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51485&oldid=51476 * Oerjan * (+227) /* Chatter */ Confusel
00:29:08 <Zarutian> izabera: also simplyfies a bit AI programming of NPCs and mobs.
00:30:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51486&oldid=50097 * Orby * (+237)
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00:32:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51487&oldid=51484 * Orby * (-64)
00:34:52 <Zarutian> for instance the NPCs could use simple hierchial goal system. Example would be an hungry NPC, it likes a certain dish, that can be had at Bobs Burger in town. The NPC isnt there so path-find per above to the nearest exit. And so on.
00:37:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51488&oldid=51487 * Orby * (+32) Clarifying a little bit.
00:37:15 <Zarutian> Hence why the pharmachist at the potion shop is in lunch break ;-)
00:38:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51489&oldid=51488 * Orby * (+0) Fixing typo
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00:40:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51490&oldid=51485 * Orby * (+185)
00:41:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51491&oldid=51489 * Orby * (-4) Renaming reversible boolfuck to reversible bitfuck
00:43:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51492&oldid=51490 * Oerjan * (+212) /* Candidate languages */ Nope.
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00:44:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51493&oldid=51482 * Orby * (+26) Renaming Reversible Boolfuck to Reversible Bitfuck
00:50:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51494&oldid=51492 * Orby * (+156)
00:53:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51495&oldid=51494 * Orby * (+214)
00:53:56 <oerjan> keeping up with wiki pages while they're being constantly edited is also confusing :(
00:55:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51496&oldid=51471 * Orby * (-1)
00:56:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51497&oldid=51491 * Orby * (+56) Adding see also section
00:59:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51498&oldid=51495 * Oerjan * (+281) /* Candidate languages */ Oops.
01:03:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51499&oldid=51497 * Oerjan * (+9) /* Reversible Bitfuck */ "past" doesn't seem quite right when you're jumping leftwards.
01:03:45 <oerjan> boily: you'll have to ask em
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01:06:43 <hppavilion[1]> Is the standard theory of fuzzy sets named "ZFC-ish"?
01:09:10 <boily> hppavellon[1]. the Z is Zadeh, not Zermelo hth
01:09:37 <boily> (the fuzzy Z, that is.)
01:10:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51500&oldid=51498 * Orby * (+132)
01:12:15 <hppavilion[1]> "A set can only contain a copy of itself to a degree less than it is contained in all others"
01:12:52 <hppavilion[1]> (so you can have S \in S, but it has to be to a degree less than 1, and so on. Or something)
01:13:23 <boily> quintopia: tile shuffling and weird videos, ballistic corks and dubious French translations, Algerian food and orange ink.
01:14:26 <hppavilion[1]> I think that there's a logical way to make this work, but I'm still thinking. Maybe the elements of a fuzzy set within another fuzzy set are included to at most the degree of the former in the latter?
01:14:30 <quintopia> of these i am most intrigued by weird videos
01:15:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51501&oldid=51500 * Oerjan * (+347) /* PFC0 */ Unscratch that
01:17:00 <boily> quintopia: on Monday nights I attend the Lundi Douteux. talk show with weird panelists, weird special guests, and a weird VJ set, with weird auctions and a bad movie.
01:17:09 <boily> do you know about Everything is Terrible?
01:18:10 <quintopia> i havent done much fun social stuff in a couple weeks
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01:22:24 <boily> quintopia: :(... here's a chicken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miomuSGoPzI
01:30:31 <quintopia> well this weekend should be better
01:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51502&oldid=51501 * Oerjan * (+604) /* Chatter */ Observation
01:30:57 <quintopia> i have two new games and am going to see friends
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01:33:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51503&oldid=51502 * Oerjan * (+2) /* Chatter */
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01:38:44 <oerjan> <\oren\> can you tell why this is so wrong? <-- i think so.
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02:09:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51504&oldid=51503 * Orby * (+102) /* PFC0 */
02:10:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51505&oldid=51504 * Orby * (-18) /* PFC0 */
02:12:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51506&oldid=51505 * Orby * (+8)
02:14:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51507&oldid=51506 * Orby * (+8)
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02:15:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51508&oldid=51507 * Orby * (+72) /* Candidate languages */
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02:39:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51509&oldid=51508 * Orby * (+1071)
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02:40:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51510&oldid=51509 * Orby * (+17)
02:41:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51511&oldid=51510 * Orby * (-1)
02:41:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51512&oldid=51511 * Orby * (+32)
02:42:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51513&oldid=51512 * Orby * (-1)
02:42:44 <hppavilion[1]> It should be \r\n or \n\r, just using \n is an atrocity before god because they do different things dammit
02:42:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51514&oldid=51513 * Orby * (+2) /* Properties of PF languages */
02:43:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51515&oldid=51514 * Orby * (+0) /* PFC0 */
02:45:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51516&oldid=51515 * Orby * (+65) /* Candidate languages */
02:45:49 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm fine with languages having a shorthand for it- maybe \r for CR, \l for LF, and \n for CRLF, but they should be distinct in encoding)
02:46:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51517&oldid=51516 * Orby * (+12) /* Candidate languages */
02:46:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51518&oldid=51517 * Orby * (-4) /* Property II */
02:47:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51519&oldid=51518 * Orby * (+0) /* Property II */
02:48:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51520&oldid=51519 * Orby * (+1) /* Property II */
02:50:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51521&oldid=51520 * Orby * (+12) /* Properties of PF languages */
02:51:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51522&oldid=51521 * Orby * (-1)
02:53:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51523&oldid=51522 * Orby * (-1128) Moving properties to main page
02:53:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51524&oldid=51499 * Orby * (+1128) Adding properties section
02:54:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51525&oldid=51524 * Orby * (+13) /* Property I */
02:55:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51526&oldid=51523 * Orby * (+8) /* Candidate languages */
02:57:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51527&oldid=51526 * Orby * (+153) /* PFC0 */
02:59:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51528&oldid=51527 * Orby * (+263) /* Chatter */
02:59:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51529&oldid=51528 * Orby * (+0) /* Chatter */
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03:08:22 <tswett_to_go> hppavilion[1]: yeah, I'm pretty sure that 2^[[0,1][1,0]] is well-defined.
03:08:38 <tswett_to_go> There's a thing called the "matrix exponential" that you can do with square matrices.
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03:10:06 <tswett_to_go> As far as I know, the matrix exponential pretty much does everything you could hope for.
03:10:36 <tswett_to_go> One property it does not have is that for all matrices X and Y, exp(X + Y) = exp(X) exp(Y).
03:10:51 <tswett_to_go> That would imply that all exponential matrices commute with each other, and they don't.
03:11:07 <tswett_to_go> (I'm just going off of Wikipedia btw; I don't actually know any of this stuff I'm saying.)
03:11:09 <oerjan> it's true if X and Y commute
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03:12:16 <oerjan> (hm, do i really know that? it must be true though.)
03:13:03 <tswett_to_go> I don't know why the commutativity of X with Y implies the commutativity of exp(X) with exp(Y).
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03:13:06 <oerjan> actually, if X and Y commute, so does the closed algebra they generate, which contains all the exponentials.
03:13:46 <oerjan> you define them via the usual power series for exp(x)
03:14:20 <oerjan> homomorphisms from addition to multiplication
03:14:39 <oerjan> hm that's not true for noncommutative ones
03:15:12 <oerjan> although it's true on the single generated subalgebra.
03:16:28 <oerjan> all this generalizes to infinite-dimensional banach algebras btw.
03:18:49 <tswett_to_go> You know, an overridable method in a class is just an abstract method along with a suggestion about how to implement it.
03:19:15 <tswett_to_go> With the odd little caveat that that suggestion is capable of accessing the class's private members.
03:24:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51530&oldid=51525 * Orby * (+325)
03:24:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51531&oldid=51530 * Orby * (+1) /* Picofuck project */
03:27:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51532&oldid=51531 * Orby * (+77) /* Length of a PF language */
03:27:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51533&oldid=51532 * Orby * (+3) /* Length of a PF language */
03:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51534&oldid=51533 * Orby * (+0) /* Length of a PF language */
03:30:03 <tswett_to_go> The fact that the suggestion is capable of accessing the private members is sort of an accident.
03:30:17 <tswett_to_go> Why not provide multiple *different* default implementations which a child class is allowed to choose from?
03:30:48 <tswett_to_go> What if I have two different methods, and I want to require the child to take the default implementation for either both or neither?
03:33:06 <tswett_to_go> Scala allows all this. You can make a class that has a bunch of "suggested implementations" hanging off of it, in the form of traits. Each one can have an implementation of any number of the methods.
03:33:49 <tswett_to_go> Then a child class can choose any non-contradictory combination of traits it wants.
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03:53:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51535&oldid=51534 * Orby * (+506) Adding third property
03:54:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51536&oldid=51535 * Orby * (+0) /* Property II */
03:58:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51537&oldid=51536 * Orby * (+110) /* Property III */
03:59:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51538&oldid=51537 * Orby * (+75) /* Property III */
04:00:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51539&oldid=51538 * Orby * (+8) /* Property III */ clarifying
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04:32:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51540&oldid=51529 * Oerjan * (+468) More observations
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05:39:36 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7n_qaQJUA
05:46:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51541&oldid=51539 * Orby * (-13) /* Property II */
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05:55:55 <quintopia> is that just some japanese girl using facerig?
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06:04:52 <\oren\> quintopia: I... assume so
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06:16:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51542&oldid=51540 * Orby * (+1930) /* Chatter */
06:17:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51543&oldid=51542 * Orby * (+34) /* Chatter */
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06:24:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51544&oldid=51541 * Orby * (+1) /* Length of a PF language */ grammar nazi
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06:28:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51545&oldid=51493 * Orby * (+46)
06:29:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51546&oldid=51545 * Orby * (+13)
06:30:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51547&oldid=51546 * Orby * (-15)
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06:33:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51548&oldid=51547 * Orby * (+4) /* Reversible Bitfuck */
06:45:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51549&oldid=51544 * Orby * (+56) adding link to talk page
06:49:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51550&oldid=51549 * Orby * (+148) /* Picofuck project */
06:51:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Orby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51551&oldid=51420 * Orby * (+251)
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06:57:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Orby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51552&oldid=51551 * Orby * (+216)
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06:57:48 * hppavilion[1] has had the joy of explaining the difference between a meme and an image macro to innumerably many people
06:58:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51553&oldid=40520 * Orby * (-27)
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08:28:15 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: eh what does it matter. so many memes /are/ image macros.
08:31:22 <quintopia> they are all trying to be memes i suspect :P
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09:05:02 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I mean, I guess you could use the definition that a meme is *any* recognizable behavior which could be replicated
09:05:24 <hppavilion[1]> "I just murdered a busload of children" "Wow, that's so dank"
09:06:08 <hppavilion[1]> "I just signed up for Karate" "Ah, I see you're trying to pick up some new content for 4chan"
09:06:18 <hppavilion[1]> "I'm breathing" "Eh, this one is getting kind of old"
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11:44:59 <HackEgo> coffee//Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
11:45:28 <boily> . o O ( need coffee... )
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14:25:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51554&oldid=51403 * Btzy * (+235) /* Introductions */
14:25:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51555&oldid=51405 * Btzy * (+132) /* Optimizing implementations */
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14:42:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51556&oldid=51543 * Oerjan * (+541) /* Non-existence proof? */ Too simple, and typo
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15:48:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51557&oldid=51556 * Orby * (+509) /* Non-existence proof? */
15:48:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51558&oldid=51557 * Orby * (+72)
16:02:27 <rdococ> turing complete mail servers.
16:02:41 <rdococ> http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/sendmail-as-turing-machine.txt
16:03:03 <oerjan> (as opposed to all the new olegs)
16:03:24 <rdococ> Even Pokemon Yellow and Super Mario World are as TC as physical games can get
16:03:36 <rdococ> you can literally glitch them into executing arbitrary code. it's super cool.
16:03:58 <rdococ> people have turned Pokemon into Snake, SMW into Flappy Bird...
16:04:21 <oerjan> it's a bit meh if they do it simply by breaking into the surrounding OS
16:04:55 <oerjan> (for TCness, that is.)
16:05:05 <rdococ> they use glitches such as overflowing the display RAM to manipulate other parts of RAM
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16:18:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51559&oldid=51550 * Orby * (+216) Added property 4
16:18:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51560&oldid=51559 * Orby * (+1) /* Property IV */
16:21:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51561&oldid=51558 * Orby * (+396) /* Candidate languages */ adding PFC1
16:23:35 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: there's always a storm happening somewhere
16:23:52 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: A bad one here. All local school is cancelled.
16:25:40 <\oren\> specifically, the Great Red Spot on Jupiter is a storm that has been storming for almost 2 centuries at least
16:25:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nanofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51562 * Hppavilion1 * (+313) /* Reversible Bitfuck Initialism */ new section
16:27:03 <hppavilion[1]> There's something wrong with the Wikipædia box at https://v.gd/daYkyp
16:27:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51563&oldid=51561 * Orby * (+337) /* Candidate languages */ Oops, I think I was a little hasty in posting PFC1
16:31:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51564&oldid=51563 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* PFC1 */ Indented for legibility
16:31:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51565&oldid=51564 * Orby * (+234) /* PFC1 */ Man, this is a real braintwister
16:31:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51566&oldid=51565 * Orby * (+73) /* PFC1 */
16:32:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51567&oldid=51566 * Orby * (+70) /* PFC1 */
16:33:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it is not necessary to indent when adding to your own comment.
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16:34:23 <\oren\> I prefer to exdent things
16:35:01 <\oren\> you indent everything ELSE
16:35:36 <oerjan> wikipedia has a template for dedenting when threads get too deep
16:36:50 <rdococ> You keep indenting and exdenting. the correct practice is _ _.
16:37:06 <rdococ> if you don't have a mono font, that won't display right, and you are crazy.
16:38:13 <\oren\> my font is not entirely mono
16:38:47 <rdococ> And you are a little crazy
16:39:00 <\oren\> There should be a specific term for fonts that have CJK characters at twice the width of latin
16:43:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: could you call them terminal-grid fonts?
16:43:28 <rdococ> I'm creating a set based language. Interested?
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16:45:48 <\oren\> mrguyorama: people who live 3 miles outside the city are country pumpkins
16:46:14 <\oren\> stupid tmux, do what I meant, not what my fingers typed
16:48:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51568&oldid=51555 * Btzy * (+22) /* Optimizing implementations */
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17:32:48 <hppavilion[1]> ...well, http://amishofficial.com/eighteen?returnUri=%2F is a porn site
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17:37:39 <oerjan> are the Amish even centrally organized?
17:39:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51569&oldid=51567 * Oerjan * (+221) /* PFC1 */ Yeah impossible
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17:41:12 <hppavilion[1]> The Mennonites, who are related but more lenient (more conservative ones approach Amish standards, but middling ones allow technology for religious purposes (exempli gratia playing Gospel radio){jump c}) seem to have an website ({land c}, and obviously the less conservative ones can at least find and pay someone to make them a website)
17:42:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to hppavilion[12].
17:43:19 <oerjan> is that your new improved password
17:44:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51570&oldid=51569 * Orby * (+186) /* PFC1 */ PFC1 is not PF
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17:45:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51571&oldid=51570 * Orby * (+81)
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17:46:47 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1]'s karma raised to 2.
17:46:53 <oerjan> LET'S SEE IF THAT HELPS
17:47:25 <hppavilion[1]> The issue was that it didn't detect my client as the appropriate target window
17:48:46 <hppavilion[1]> Because it targeted «Hexchat: * @ freenode /», which is what the empty tab I used for testing had as the title, but I was in "HexChat: hppavilion[1] @ freenode / #esoteric"
17:49:32 <oerjan> grmbl the season with evening sun right into my livingroom has started.
17:51:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51572&oldid=51571 * Orby * (+554) /* Chatter */
17:52:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51573&oldid=51572 * Orby * (+11)
17:52:42 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, are you in one of those areas with the Midnight Sun?
17:54:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51574&oldid=51573 * Orby * (+25)
17:55:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Orby]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51575 * Orby * (+11) Created page with "Talk to me."
17:56:15 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: no, i'm not far enough north
17:56:49 <oerjan> it doesn't get actually _dark_ in midsummer, though.
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17:57:12 <hppavilion[1]> I'm not technically at the latitude where the sun *never* goes down in the summer, but we do reach a point where it doesn't go down far enough to really be considered night by ANY standard
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17:59:42 <oerjan> Zarutian beats me, though.
17:59:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Though we should be arguing about absolute latitude, not northiness
18:00:37 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( A lot of mnemonics for distinguishing two terms try to hard, where one of the terms is easily mnemonicized, then the other is kind of shoehorned in in a way that makes no sense. It's not even necessary, since knowing the first tells you that the second is the one that the first isn't. )
18:01:00 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't think we have many antarctic esolangers.
18:01:03 <hppavilion[1]> Like, the difference between a Stalactite and a Stalacmite
18:01:20 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yeah, and more to the point, you can't be 96° S
18:01:49 <oerjan> . o O ( my position is complex )
18:01:51 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, maybe you could be, but you'd really just be 84° S at the opposite longitude
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18:02:30 <oerjan> *stalagmite, although i have no idea which is which
18:02:40 <hppavilion[1]> Like, the difference between a Stalactite and a Stalagmite was- as I was taught- a Stalactite clings *tight* to the ceiling
18:03:10 <hppavilion[1]> But then they said that a stalagmite is remembered because it *might* join up to form a column (whatever those things are called)
18:03:41 * oerjan on the spot makes "stalaktitten titter ned fra taket"
18:04:09 <hppavilion[1]> But... (a) the same is true of a stalactite- it would be the other part of the column- and (b) if you know that a stalactite is the ceiling one, then you know that a stalagmite must be the other. So you don't really that part of the mnemonic
18:04:36 <hppavilion[1]> The Latitude vs. Longitude one is even worse: Latitude is horizontal, the rungs going up and down the earth like a ladder
18:04:55 <oerjan> avoid the Stalag, is my advice
18:05:39 <oerjan> wait i thought that was russian, but it's (nazi) german
18:05:56 <hppavilion[1]> And then... something I can barely even remember about how Longitude lines are long? Which is stupid because not only are latitudes also pretty long, I'm pretty sure they're a bit over *twice* as long (since latitude goes all the way around, longitude only goes halfway (afaiirct))
18:06:16 <HackEgo> absolute value? ¯\(°_o)/¯
18:06:30 <rdococ> isn't longitude the horizontal axis?
18:06:45 <rdococ> well, I say horizontal. I mean yaw
18:08:16 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break that.
18:08:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'absolute value': The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break that.
18:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Yeah, that was the only reason I made that.
18:08:50 <oerjan> latitudes aren't all the same length, though.
18:10:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Since they aren't all great circles. Crap.
18:10:18 <rdococ> x @ y = (x + y) - (x * y)
18:10:26 <hppavilion[1]> Unfortunately, the integral of sin(x) with respect to x is -cos(x)
18:10:48 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: No, just mildly amusing.
18:10:58 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Also, no, x @ y is clearly the matrix product of x and y :P
18:11:09 <rdococ> Okay, well, it's equivalent to P(x or y) for two independent probabilities x and y.
18:11:36 <oerjan> 1 - x @ y = (1 - x) * (1 - y) hth
18:12:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: There really should be a nice symbol for x?y = 1-(1-x)(1-y)
18:12:34 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It'd be nice if the integral of sin(x) was cos(x) because the integral of sgn(x) is abs(x)
18:12:36 <rdococ> For example, if P(x) = P(y) = 0.5, there is still a 1/4 probability that neither collapses to true.
18:13:27 <rdococ> You're right, I accidentally Copenhagened you.
18:13:33 <oerjan> and without being quantum, even
18:13:35 <rdococ> I prefer the other, more interesting interpretations, though.
18:14:11 <oerjan> . o O ( what's the bohmian interpretation of classical probability )
18:14:25 <rdococ> I do like how the integral of sgn(x) is abs(x)+c tho.
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18:16:30 * hppavilion[1] has never taken an εg of formal calculus, and thus doesn't know what the +c does and when it does and does not occur
18:17:10 <rdococ> Well, the derivative of f(x)+C is the same for all C.
18:17:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Quantum computing is basically the formal scientific application of esolangery, isn't it?
18:17:40 <rdococ> I don't think quantum computing is that esoteric.
18:18:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51576&oldid=51574 * Orby * (+0) /* PFC1 */
18:21:23 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...apparently something about De Broglie–Bohm theory is analogous to thermodynamics in classical mechanics?
18:21:26 <rdococ> Relativity, because everything should be equal :P
18:21:47 <rdococ> *Not mathematically equivalent, but ethically equivalent in importance.
18:22:23 <rdococ> It is just as correct to say that we are orbiting the Sun as it is to say that the rest of the universe is orbiting us.
18:25:03 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ...so it was so that earth *is* the center of the universe, but no country gets to claim that they're the *exact* center?
18:25:32 <rdococ> Well, technically, in your reference frame you are the center of the universe.
18:26:19 <hppavilion[1]> I saw the headline "Chris Christie Will Head Commission on Drug Addiction" on time.com. My first thought is "Good for him getting into rehab". Not sure why.
18:26:24 <rdococ> I wonder what a world with relative acceleration is like.
18:26:36 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure he isn't famous for probably being an addict
18:27:55 <rdococ> Relative jerk? More like relative jounce!
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18:29:36 <rdococ> I also had the idea of an alien culture whose two-dimensional depictions of relativity were 45 degrees rotated respective to ours (so light moving +space and light moving -space were the two main x and y axes)
18:31:18 <oerjan> how completely inhuman
18:31:51 <rdococ> Yes, but think about it.
18:32:41 <rdococ> The "time axis" would be a diagonal, and the "space axis" another diagonal. All non-tachyonic particles would have an alien-velocity in the +xy quadrant.
18:33:16 <rdococ> Instead of space time, they would have leftrightlight.
18:36:08 * oerjan is slightly reminded of some calculations he did on rule 110's speeds, trying to see if it had anything like lorentz transformations
18:38:12 <rdococ> Velocity can (I assume) be described as a 4-dimensional angle (x,y,z,t) where t > /0.5.
18:39:57 <oerjan> that's proportional to the 4-momentum
18:40:34 <oerjan> if you're not at light speed, you can normalize it by dividing by the mass.
18:41:30 <rdococ> People say (Portal 1/2) portals conserve momentum, but to me that sounds like you can go into the portal fat and slow, and exit slim and fast :Þ
18:42:00 <oerjan> well to turn fat to slim you need to violate conservation of mass
18:42:16 <rdococ> Or convert it to kinetic energy. Which probably requires energy.
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18:44:50 <\oren\> oh god the corporate netwrok is dying
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18:53:11 <rdococ> What do you call mass times jerk?
18:55:06 <\oren\> rdococ: well, that's the same unit as the spool-up rate of a jet or rocket engine
18:55:18 <\oren\> change in force that is
18:55:47 <rdococ> How about with variable mass?
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19:01:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51577&oldid=51576 * Orby * (+218) /* Non-existence proof? */
19:03:13 <rdococ> a degree is an archour
19:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51578&oldid=51577 * Orby * (+77) /* Chatter */
19:13:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51579&oldid=51578 * Orby * (+72) /* Chatter */
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19:48:28 <rdococ> Esoteric health bars anyone?
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20:05:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51580&oldid=51579 * Orby * (+1256) /* Chatter */ Working on another non-existence proof
20:07:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51581&oldid=51560 * Orby * (-2044) Moving properties to talk page
20:07:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51582&oldid=51580 * Orby * (+2044) Moving properties back to talk page
20:22:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51583&oldid=51582 * Orby * (+4) /* Proof */
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20:37:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51584&oldid=51583 * Orby * (+374) /* Non-existence proof #2 */
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20:45:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51585&oldid=51584 * Orby * (+59) /* Non-existence proof #2 */
20:47:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51586&oldid=51585 * Orby * (+1) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
20:48:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51587&oldid=51586 * Orby * (-1) Undo revision 51586 by [[Special:Contributions/Orby|Orby]] ([[User talk:Orby|talk]])
20:50:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51588&oldid=51587 * Orby * (+332) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
20:50:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51589&oldid=51588 * Orby * (+70) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
20:50:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51590&oldid=51589 * Orby * (-12) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
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21:27:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51591&oldid=51590 * Orby * (+652)
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21:29:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51592&oldid=51591 * Orby * (-1) /* Property IV */
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21:30:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51593&oldid=51592 * Orby * (+181) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
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22:32:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51594&oldid=51562 * Orby * (+219)
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23:10:36 <HackEgo> kmc//kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013
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23:47:34 <boily> kmc_: himc_! is it true?
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00:19:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51595&oldid=51594 * Orby * (+73)
00:26:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51596&oldid=51593 * Orby * (+562) /* Candidate languages */ PFC3
00:31:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51597&oldid=51596 * Oerjan * (+188) /* PFC2 */ [] doesn't always halt
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00:44:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51598&oldid=51597 * Orby * (+60) /* PFC2 */
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00:49:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51599&oldid=51598 * Orby * (+170) /* PFC2 */
00:49:19 <oerjan> dammit stop editing :(
00:50:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51600&oldid=51599 * Orby * (+49) /* PFC2 */
00:51:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51601&oldid=51600 * Orby * (+112) /* PFC3 */
00:52:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51602&oldid=51601 * Oerjan * (+362) /* PFC2 */ It's worse
00:53:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51603&oldid=51602 * Orby * (+115) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
00:54:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51604&oldid=51603 * Orby * (+139) /* Counter example for 2.1 */
00:54:17 <Robdgreat> 18:54 Ignoring ALL from HackEgo [-regexp -pattern wiki]
00:55:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51605&oldid=51604 * Orby * (+126) /* PFC2 */
00:56:00 <oerjan> realtime chat on the wiki is awkward.
00:56:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51606&oldid=51605 * Orby * (-59) /* Conjecture 2.1 */
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00:57:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51607&oldid=51606 * Orby * (+2) /* Conjecture 2.1 */
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00:59:59 <boily> Rhellobdgreat. SNR is an overrated concept.
01:01:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51608&oldid=51607 * Orby * (-29) /* Conjecture 2.1 */ Clarifying conjecture 2.1
01:02:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Orby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51609&oldid=51575 * Oerjan * (+285) Preview
01:02:26 <oerjan> Robdgreat: ok i suggested he use preview
01:09:12 <boily> oerjan: hue hue hue :D
01:13:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51610&oldid=51608 * Oerjan * (+221) /* PFC3 */ Not property I
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01:23:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Orby]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51611&oldid=51609 * Orby * (+154)
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01:38:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51612&oldid=51610 * Oerjan * (+177) /* Lemma 2.2 */ Is this true?
01:46:29 <oerjan> <boily> kmc_: himc_! is it true? <-- devious minds want to know!
01:46:51 <HackEgo> 1846:2013-01-26 <shachäf> learn kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013 \ 1845:2013-01-26 <shachäf> learn kmc ran the Internation Devious Code Contest of 2013 \ 658:2012-08-16 <oerjän> rm wisdom/kmc \ 657:2012-08-16 <oerjän> learn kmc is nice but we don't get his occasional bouts of Tourette's.
01:47:53 <HackEgo> kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013
01:48:09 <HackEgo> kmc//kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013.
01:48:28 <boily> `slwd kmc//s/ran/did not run/
01:48:30 <HackEgo> kmc//kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013.
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02:01:23 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
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02:30:36 <HackEgo> narutoverse//narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus.
02:31:42 <oerjan> i don't know that `? ever did randomness...
02:31:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic
02:32:00 <oerjan> except for the ngevd bit.
02:32:25 <shachaf> You should make a variant of `2 that doesn't do shell command expansion.
02:33:10 <oerjan> what should it be called?
02:36:05 <shachaf> just stick a w somewhere in the name and call it good hth
02:36:25 <shachaf> Is there a HackEgo command to run commands HackEgo-style?
02:36:35 <shachaf> I.e. split on the first space and pass in one argument.
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02:46:00 <oerjan> shachaf: not per se, but i had to implement that inside `#
02:46:39 <HackEgo> sep='//`' \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `# <comment>'"$sep"'<command>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ command="${1#*$sep}" \ "${command%% *}" "${command#* }"
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02:48:31 <oerjan> `mkx bin/nur//"${1%% *}" "${1#* }"
02:48:48 <HackEgo> cat: hi there: No such file or directory
02:48:58 <shachaf> bin/` would be a good name if it wasn't taken.
02:50:16 <oerjan> `slwd bin/#//$-1,$cnur "${1#*$sep}"
02:50:24 <oerjan> `sled bin/#//$-1,$cnur "${1#*$sep}"
02:50:24 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unknown command: `-'
02:52:03 <oerjan> huh sed doesn't seem to support selecting the line before the last.
02:52:30 <oerjan> `sled bin/#//3,$cnur "${1#*$sep}"
02:52:32 <HackEgo> bin/#//sep='//`' \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `# <comment>'"$sep"'<command>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ nur "${1#*$sep}"
02:52:55 <oerjan> `# testing//`cat hi there
02:52:56 <HackEgo> cat: hi there: No such file or directory
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04:18:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51613&oldid=51612 * Orby * (+2980) Non-existence proof #3. Should make a little more sense.
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04:38:54 <HackEgo> Orby: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:39:04 <Orby> I was informed that there is a bot which communicates edits to this IRC channel and I was flooding the channel with edits. Sorry for the disruption! I will keep my edits to a reasonable count in the future :)
04:39:12 <Orby> Hello Oerjan, how are you?
04:39:23 <oerjan> reading your latest edit
04:39:37 <Orby> Hopefully it makes more sense than the last one
04:40:34 <Orby> Hey @viznut, don't think I've seen you outside of pouet, ha
04:41:14 <oerjan> be careful with @greetings in here, one of our bots has @ as command prefix
04:41:56 <Orby> thanks, been a year or so since I've been on irc sadly. : is the standard highlight, yeah?
04:42:08 <oerjan> viznut seems sadly very idel
04:43:47 <oerjan> fungot: say hi to Orby
04:43:47 <fungot> oerjan: new features: water obstacles. if an error condition. in-range has a termination condition.
04:44:13 <fungot> Orby: fnord putkonen not automatically). winds out of the result; it could easily be used as test expressions, etc.
04:48:26 <oerjan> your shift loop definition needs a little work. e.g. (*(<)*) seems to fit the definition but remains a NOP.
04:50:37 <oerjan> i'd imagine you want it to actually execute the < at least once.
04:50:55 <oerjan> (still not sure about the conjecture)
04:52:29 <Orby> Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'm trying to say a loop that can result in net tape head movement for some initial input.
04:52:58 <Orby> Clearly the loop (*(<)*) can never result in net tape head movement, despite containing an unbalanced <
04:53:53 <oerjan> that A(B1)C1...(Bn)Cn(U)Y1(X1)...Ym(Xm)W
04:54:22 <Orby> yeah, its pretty unreadable
04:54:45 <Orby> or are you talking about the typo?
04:54:51 <oerjan> my original comment still applies: (U) could be (U1)V1(U2)...(Uk)
04:54:52 <Orby> the missing ...
04:55:33 <oerjan> you have no guarantee that the unmatched ( and ) in the first and last commands match each _other_.
04:56:00 <Orby> sure, U could be anything, but I don't think that matters. If the execution of (U) can result in net tape head movement, then the conjecture applies regardless of whether or not there are nested loops
04:56:15 <oerjan> i'm saying U isn't a program.
04:56:44 <oerjan> it's a program fragment, and can contain unmatched parentheses.
04:56:50 <Orby> I don't see how the first unmatched ( in [ could possibly not match the last unmatched ) in ]
04:57:15 <Orby> doh, you are right
04:57:40 <Orby> yeah, the form is still wrong
04:57:53 <Orby> maybe there's no way to salvage the proof. that would make me happy.
04:59:05 <Orby> if there are no pf languages, then nanofuck is the smallest, which is cool. if there are pf languages, then finding one would also be cool. I'm happy either way.
05:00:32 <oerjan> hm i think your proof still works assuming the conjecture.
05:00:45 <Orby> oh, no, wait, the top level commands that aren't in loops are still A, Ci, Yi, and W, so the net tape head movement is still in one direction and not the other
05:00:54 <Orby> even with [][]
05:01:17 <oerjan> no, you also have my Vi above.
05:01:32 <oerjan> which are _not_ necessarily common between the < and > translation.
05:01:49 <Orby> where do the Vi come from?
05:01:56 <oerjan> the parts between the (Ui)
05:02:13 <Orby> but can they be part of the top level code which isn't contained with a loop?
05:02:34 <Orby> I am not seeing how
05:03:23 <oerjan> you are correct that they are among the A, Ci, etc. _but_ they're not the _same_ number of copies of them for every program
05:03:44 <oerjan> e.g. [] contains only one set, while [][] contains two
05:04:20 <Orby> but doesn't the ratio between the number of occurances of A, Ci and Yi, W always remain the same?
05:04:42 <Orby> because the parenthesis have to close
05:05:23 <Orby> So maybe one command does > and one does >> but we can't have one doing > and one doing <
05:05:27 <oerjan> hm right. so it's not the same amount, but always the same _direction_.
05:05:35 <Orby> yeah, I think so
05:05:50 <Orby> that's what I was trying to get at with the proof
05:06:27 <Orby> of course this all rests on a big fat conjecture
05:07:07 <Orby> but the conjecture seems pretty reasonable to me, I don't have any good ideas on how to prove it, but I can't find a counter example
05:07:18 <Orby> everytime I think I find one, I figure out I'm wrong
05:09:03 <Orby> too bad the weekend isn't here yet. I want to blow off life for a couple days and figure this out.
05:12:37 <Orby> I think the proof is salvagable if we change the form to something like A(B1)C1...(Bn)Cn(U1)Y1(X1)...Ym(Xm)W ... A(B1)C1...(Bn)Cn(U1)Y1(X1)...Ym(Xm)W but it's a notational nightmare. need to figure out a better way to phrase it.
05:14:14 <oerjan> i have another idea. note that the leftmost [ in the program must match _some_ ] with its (, and everything in between is inside a loop. and what comes after that ] must be a whole program.
05:14:32 <oerjan> so you have [A1][A2]...[An]
05:14:45 <oerjan> where all the Ai are inside loops
05:16:04 <oerjan> and the only parts outside loops are the A...C1 etc. of the [s and ...Ym...W of the ]s
05:17:55 <oerjan> the [s and ]s visible in the [A1][A2]...[An] notation, that is.
05:19:39 <oerjan> Orby: also, there is no ... between W and the next A, they must follow each other directly.
05:20:28 <oerjan> because the W ends a toplevel ], which can only be followed by a [
05:20:56 <Orby> with you, also observation: any loop which doesn't always nop will result in a shift sometimes
05:21:33 <oerjan> hm, i'm not sure of that.
05:22:11 <Orby> yeah, you're right, (<*>), but anyway
05:22:58 <Orby> notation hell :D
05:23:07 <Orby> ok, let me read what you were writing
05:24:11 <Orby> OK, yes I agree with what you're writing. The elipsis between W and A was supposed to represent multiple repetitions of []
05:24:32 <Orby> so more A blah blah WA blah blah W, etc
05:27:44 <oerjan> another thing. hm. if a program always halts, then there must be an upper bound to how long it can run without halting, by a compactness argument.
05:28:19 <oerjan> and that, i think, is enough to ensure that the reverse program also always halts.
05:29:22 <oerjan> which is important for your proof, because you need it to ensure you can always get to any state you want as long as your programs are sure to halt.
05:29:59 <Orby> I don't think we can get to any state from any state
05:30:10 <oerjan> that's not what i mean.
05:30:25 <Orby> oh i see what you mean
05:31:31 <oerjan> using this, you can prove that all the loops in representations of always halting programs must themselves be always halting.
05:33:29 <oerjan> and then only that pesky conjecture remains.
05:35:34 <Orby> yes, the pesky conjecture.
05:35:43 <Orby> Say we have a loop (B) that doesn't always evaluate to a nop
05:36:12 <Orby> either B contains no loops, or B contains an inner most loop (C) that doesn't always evaluate to a nop
05:36:47 <Orby> C is guaranteed to always perform the same action
05:36:59 <Orby> since it contains no loops that aren't nops
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05:37:42 <Orby> if that action involves moving the tape head, then it seems like it should be easy to prove that it's possible for C to always leave the tape head on a 0
05:38:01 <Orby> if C results in a net movement of the tape head, I should say
05:38:56 <oerjan> the problem is that inner loops _cannot_ always be reached in any state you want.
05:39:08 <Orby> yeah, that was the issue with the first non-existence proof
05:39:23 <oerjan> or at least, we haven't proved they can
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05:40:26 <Orby> I think it's better to talk about the net tape head movement resulting from B, since the only condition that has to be met to execute B at least once is that the tape head is pointing at a 1
05:42:07 <Orby> If the tape looks like ...b1 b2 b3 b4 1 b5 b6 b7 b8..., then B will execute. The question is, for any B which sometimes results in net tape head movement, can we choose b_i s.t. B leaves the tape head pointing at a zero every time it executes
05:42:27 <Orby> what a can of worms
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05:44:34 <oerjan> yep. i think i'll be leaving now, it's soon time to go to bed.
05:44:58 <Orby> likewise. have a good night!
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07:02:19 <hppavilion[1]> There is a surprisingly large number of accordion covers on YouTube
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07:13:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Btzy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51614 * Btzy * (+99) Created page with "Hi, I'm Bernard. [https://btzy.github.io/jelly/ Jelly] is my optimizing online Brainfuck compiler."
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11:37:22 <HackEgo> nm//nm means "no minotaur" hth
11:37:53 <boily> . o O ( what was the command for magic cards again? )
11:38:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: card: not found
11:38:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: magic: not found
11:38:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mtg: not found
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13:05:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51615&oldid=50023 * Actuallyallama * (-6)
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13:10:44 <b_jonas> Bowserinator: random-card and card-by-name
13:11:00 <HackEgo> Nightfire Giant \ 4B \ Creature -- Zombie Giant \ 4/3 \ Nightfire Giant gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Mountain. \ {4}{R}: Nightfire Giant deals 2 damage to target creature or player. \ M15-U
13:11:06 <HackEgo> Giant Adephage \ 5GG \ Creature -- Insect \ 7/7 \ Trample \ Whenever Giant Adephage deals combat damage to a player, create a token that's a copy of Giant Adephage. \ GTC-M \ \ Giant Albatross \ 1U \ Creature -- Bird \ 1/1 \ Flying \ When Giant Albatross dies, you may pay {1}{U}. If you do, for each creature that dealt damage to Giant Albatross th
13:11:51 <HackEgo> Dreamscape Artist \ 1U \ Creature -- Human Spellshaper \ 1/1 \ {2}{U}, {T}, Discard a card, Sacrifice a land: Search your library for up to two basic land cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ PLC-C
13:25:04 <Taneb> Is there a name for the field containing the rationals and arbitrary radicals?
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14:18:40 <Jafet> maybe you should invent a name for it
14:20:58 <Jafet> (or construct a name for it?)
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14:28:52 <bronxman> any topic aside from esoteric?
14:30:01 <bronxman> or a related theme to esoteric
14:31:05 <bronxman> global warming could be a change in human race mindset
14:39:53 <Jafet> is that related to esoteric programming?
14:43:33 <HackEgo> bronxman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:43:56 <b_jonas> bronxman: yes, there are always lots of topics trending besides esoteric.
14:46:39 <Jafet> it could be said that global warming has caused a change in human race mindset to “global warming exists”
14:47:24 <bronxman> for some people global warming doesn't exist, right?
14:51:09 <b_jonas> like for Indiana Jones when he's in the fridge to survive it?
14:51:50 <Jafet> his climate model predicted his survival hth
14:56:20 <bronxman> we're spiritual beings living in a material bodies, it could be existed a spiritual world
14:57:18 <bronxman> *living in material bodies I mean
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15:51:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51616&oldid=51613 * Orby * (+321) /* Non-existence Proof 3 */ Patching up proof to include last night's discussion
15:58:03 <rdococ> I wish HackEgo linked to the actual article rather than the diff.
15:58:52 <orby> Yeah, that would be nice
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16:09:12 <Jafet> note that any solution also implies a solution to https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_instruction_minimalization
16:11:27 <Jafet> maybe not with the isomorphism condition
16:15:25 <Jafet> actually, it may be possible to circumvent the translation rules with a two-command turning tarpit
16:21:04 <orby> Jafet: I tried my best to write the translation rules in such a way that a turning tarpit could not apply. e.g. I don't see any trivial way to write the ! command in braincrash as a finite series of BF commands.
16:21:25 <orby> but if you think of a way to do so, I'd obviously be very interested
16:23:41 <orby> I think the problem with a turning tarpit is that the command register must map to some position on the tape in BF under isomorphism, which can then be potentially modified by whatever the execute command translates to
16:23:56 <orby> which screws up the state
16:30:27 <orby> and I'm not totally convinced that a solution to picofuck necessarily implies a bf instruction minimalization, since picofuck is minimizing reversible brainfuck, which is not a so called "simple translation" of brainfuck afaik, so it depends on what kind of requirements you have for bf equivalence
16:31:17 <orby> I chose rbf because there was an obvious 3 command simple translation (see nanofuck) which made me think it'd be easier to minimize
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16:34:07 <orby> oerjan: morning
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16:38:54 <rdococ> coafternoon to conobody here
16:40:22 <orby> oerjan: I tried to rewrite non-existence proof 3 to capture the points in our argument last night. still no counter-example for the annoying conjecture.
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16:41:37 <orby> I've got meetings, be back in a couple hours
16:42:08 <oerjan> and i'll be leaving before then, back in a bit more.
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16:50:57 <fizzie> I think the rationale is that it's one click from the diff to the article (click on "Page"), but the other way around you'd have to do "View history" and then manually look up from the comment or timestamp which edit it was.
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17:02:44 <\oren\> wow. I just realized I can make a self-replicating ship in kerbal pace program
17:03:44 <oerjan> the age of the kerberserkers
17:09:02 <rdococ> kerbal space program turing completeness proof?
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17:10:43 <\oren\> algorithm: have a rover that can mine metal and refine it into rocket parts and launch a ship
17:10:48 <\oren\> 2. have it travel 100 metres in a random direction, and then launch a copy of itself, repeat
17:10:53 <\oren\> 3. exponential number of rovers spread across the Mun
17:13:30 <\oren\> rdococ: what about it?
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17:16:44 <\oren\> Kerbin's inner moon is the Mun. its outer moon is called Minmus
17:19:11 <rdococ> I wonder if they've made a programming language named Looa?
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17:25:20 <rdococ> Is your password non-English?
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17:34:56 <hppavilion[12]> On an entirely unrelated note: Why the fuck is it so difficult to find sheet music *not* for purchase and *not* under DRM for pieces that are public domain and have been for over a century
17:35:12 <hppavilion[12]> If they ever were at all, because copyright might not have *even been invented* when it was written
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17:48:03 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, it's trying to identify my under a different nick
17:48:08 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: you have looked for them in ABC format? (You can use abc.js iirc to render the actual sheets)
17:48:31 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: I can reset, I just want the passworder to type it in right
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17:51:08 <hppavilion[1]> It's identifying me as hppavilion[0] even though it has my username set as hppavilion[1]
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18:32:04 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, a new tumblr post suggests that ~50% of platelets are made in the Lungs, not the Bone Marrow
18:36:26 <\oren\> tumblr isn't a scientific journel
18:39:35 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I'm working on an IRC bot to manage inventories
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18:55:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SnoringFrog * New user account
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19:03:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51617&oldid=51554 * SnoringFrog * (+282)
19:04:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[COW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51618&oldid=45818 * SnoringFrog * (+219) Add updated links to language info/interpreters
19:04:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[COW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51619&oldid=51618 * SnoringFrog * (+3)
19:23:40 <shachaf> fungot has been cooking something up: https://twitter.com/jamieabrew/status/695060640931549184
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19:56:19 * FireFly tries to think of what the most recent significant thing he coded was
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20:06:15 <olsner> hmm, was a while since I coded something that wasn't work code
20:06:18 <int-e> Hmm, significant. The code for reading integers in Haskell's base?
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20:10:42 <int-e> I dunno, the sounds in "cat" and "hätte" are the same to me, is that the right one?
20:11:16 <int-e> (first syllable of "hätte", the 'e' is subtly different)
20:12:20 <shapr> olsner: writing Haskell at work?
20:12:59 <shapr> I wrote some work Haskell code last week.
20:13:05 <shapr> and I think I'll get to enhance it next week.
20:13:06 <olsner> I did write a few very small utils for CVS in haskell, but that was like 8 years ago
20:13:24 <shapr> I found much CVS tags in my code from ten years ago.
20:13:32 <int-e> IPA is often to subtle for me anyway, and half of the sounds are unpronouncible.
20:13:58 * int-e patched a C++ program today...
20:16:06 <shapr> int-e: that's why I prefer Imperial Stouts over IPAs
20:16:13 <shapr> IPAs are too subtle
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20:17:08 <shapr> olsner: written any Haskell lately?
20:20:45 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, the vowels maybe, the consonants are pretty solid
20:44:08 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: I think "cat" is different in British English
20:46:24 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: that's not very helpful information right now
20:46:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Slord * New user account
20:51:12 <moonythedwarf> I've been doing a lot in the language Rust and was curious what you all thought of it.
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20:54:59 <int-e> . o O ( it's not Swift )
20:55:53 <moonythedwarf> Forgot to post the site: https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/
20:56:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51620&oldid=51617 * Slord * (+117)
20:56:29 <int-e> moonythedwarf: I suspect that link was quite redundant.
20:57:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51621 * Slord * (+339) Created page with "== LINR == LINR is an interpreted language in which the code is broken into two sections separate by an <code>@</code>. The first character determines the separator for operat..."
20:57:27 <int-e> moonythedwarf: I expect you know this, but the pun is connected to https://developer.apple.com/swift/
20:58:02 <Phantom_Hoover> but that's not a pun because there's no double meaning if you read it as the adjective 'swift'
20:58:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51622&oldid=51621 * Slord * (+17)
20:58:53 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, fungi should have their own culinary designation
21:01:18 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: I'd argue that by appropriating the adjective as the name of a programming language, the word becomes a proper name. I'd further advocate the view that changing the catogory of a word (using a noun where an adjective is required) is enough to constitute a pun, even if the spelling is unaffected. )
21:02:00 <Phantom_Hoover> no but it doesn't work as a pun because 'it's not swift' is nonsensical if you read 'swift' as the adjective
21:02:15 <Phantom_Hoover> so you naturally resolve to the only sensible reading which is also the expected one from the context
21:02:49 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: wait, you're saying that programming languages can't be fast nor swift?
21:03:11 <int-e> that didn't occur to me.
21:04:17 <Phantom_Hoover> i've never seen anyone use 'swift' to talk about computing performance
21:06:01 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Well, I hear Swift is pretty shitty in terms of speed.
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21:13:06 <olsner> shapr: not very lately, sedition is the latest haskell I did
21:13:31 <olsner> before that, improved dead code stripping in GHC
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21:20:37 <shachaf> So <= is a primitive used for sorting and searching that gives you ~1 bit of information per use. So people do binary search and things.
21:20:49 <shachaf> Is there a general-purpose primitive that gives you more than that?
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21:22:14 <int-e> byte access, so people use that for tries?
21:22:33 <HackEgo> Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination.
21:22:49 <shachaf> int-e: Right, you have radix sort and things like that.
21:23:18 <int-e> I think that's the best idea I'll have
21:23:23 <int-e> (for this question)
21:23:42 <shachaf> Is there a better question I can ask?
21:24:14 <shachaf> <= is much more generic than things like radix
21:24:34 <int-e> . o O ( Is there a way to terminate shachaf's chains of questions that doesn't involve querying a certain wisdom entry? )
21:25:11 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans.
21:25:30 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
21:25:52 <int-e> please remind me, does "gillar" mean "like"?
21:26:16 <int-e> (I guess google can find the answer)
21:26:47 <int-e> `thanks google http://en.bab.la/dictionary/swedish-english/gillar
21:26:48 <HackEgo> Thanks, google http://en.bab.la/dictionary/swedish-english/gillar. Thoogle http://en.bab.la/dictionary/swedish-english/gillar.
21:27:27 <int-e> Dissonance tends to be more interesting than harmony.
21:27:57 <int-e> I should perhaps clarify that I didn't mean it in the context of music. Dissonance has its appeal there but only when used very sparingly.
21:28:24 <shachaf> I think dissonance is a fundamental part of music, isn't it?
21:29:12 <int-e> Maybe I'm misusing the term.
21:29:33 <int-e> Music tends to be something I listen to, not analyze.
21:29:53 <shachaf> Do you listen to analysts?
21:30:05 <shachaf> I learned from reading Matt Levine's column what the true purpose of analysts is.
21:31:08 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn Chuck Norris//Cars look both ways before Chuck Norris crosses the street.
21:31:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'chuck norris': Cars look both ways before Chuck Norris crosses the street.
21:32:19 <shachaf> Chuck Norris jokes are scow
21:32:19 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yes. that's the command I usually use to create wisdom entries, which you all then delete because I can't come up with good ones
21:33:01 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Is it your opinion that they aren't good?
21:33:40 <wob_jonas> shachaf: probably some of them are good, but it's hard to tell which ones
21:34:09 <wob_jonas> maybe you tell me which ones are good
21:34:34 <shachaf> I don't think that last one was good.
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21:38:23 <int-e> it beats straight quotes from the Mt:G comprehensive rules.
21:38:54 <int-e> (it looked wrong but not terribly so)
21:39:19 <shachaf> Have you played Magic: the Gathering?
21:39:56 <HackEgo> Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell.
21:40:10 <HackEgo> 🐐:🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) \ deniability:Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ doublethink:Doublethink is the ability to hold the right belief. (If you think that you disagree with this definition, think again.) \ erlang:Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretendi
21:40:19 <moonythedwarf> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i dont think thatsvery accurate
21:40:32 <int-e> I have played it with other people's decks (basically serving as a parity correction), but never collected cards nor done much thinking about deck design. I stopped 8 years ago or so.
21:41:15 <moonythedwarf> `le//rn rust//Rust is C++, but Python, but Extensible, but Memory safe, but designed by the makers of haskell
21:41:17 <HackEgo> Relearned 'rust': Rust is C++, but Python, but Extensible, but Memory safe, but designed by the makers of haskell
21:41:33 <wob_jonas> it tries to be as high level (static) as haskell so it can catch a lot of your mistakes at compile time, but at the same time tries to be efficient ("zero-cost abstractions" is the fancy way they say it) so you don't pay overhead for that
21:41:47 <HackEgo> Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell.
21:41:57 <wob_jonas> this one is totally accurate, it's the best description ever
21:42:05 <int-e> Ah it was comparative. Right.
21:42:30 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf: all wisdom entries are accurate
21:42:34 <wob_jonas> it's accurate and funny at the same time
21:42:59 <int-e> . o O ( It's just as memory safe as C++ ... if you stick to RAII patterns almost nothing goes wrong :P )
21:43:00 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
21:43:11 <int-e> and some smart pointers
21:43:29 <int-e> `` grwp pointer | wc
21:43:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51623&oldid=51622 * Slord * (+2580)
21:43:37 <HackEgo> pouti:Pouti is boily's brother. He's also Canadian, and he closes the Roujo pointer loop.
21:43:49 <moonythedwarf> . o O ( Lifetimes, stop it, im simply trying to make a lua function in rust, but lifetimes wont let me )
21:43:54 <int-e> `` grwp smart | wc
21:44:03 <HackEgo> c++:Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
21:44:17 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
21:44:21 <int-e> ... somewhat amazed that wisdom isn't more smart than that.
21:44:55 <int-e> moonythedwarf: it's a nop
21:45:43 <int-e> alternatively, somebody started writing the wisom entry in assembly but they're still working on the program initialization part.
21:48:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51624&oldid=51360 * Slord * (+11) Added LINR
21:49:10 * moonythedwarf trys to remember the command to download a file to ego the hack
21:49:23 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:49:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51625&oldid=51623 * Slord * (+4)
21:49:41 <HackEgo> 2017-03-30 20:49:36 URL:https://pastebin.com/raw/5pEV4X5h [601] -> "5pEV4X5h" [1]
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21:49:44 <int-e> okay, just `help, but it's in there.
21:49:56 <HackEgo> 5pEV4X5h: Assembler messages: \ 5pEV4X5h: Warning: end of file not at end of a line; newline inserted \ 5pEV4X5h:1: Error: no such instruction: `section .text' \ 5pEV4X5h:2: Error: no such instruction: `global _start' \ 5pEV4X5h:6: Error: too many memory references for `mov' \ 5pEV4X5h:7: Error: too many memory references for `mov' \ 5pEV4X5h:8: Er
21:50:31 <HackEgo> GNU assembler (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.25 \ Copyright (C) 2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This program is free software; you may redistribute it under the terms of \ the GNU General Public License version 3 or later. \ This program has absolutely no warranty. \ This assembler was configured for a target of `x86_64-linux-gnu'.
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21:51:17 <int-e> (though it's not complaining about registers and instructions yet)
21:51:34 <moonythedwarf> `le//rn assembly//Assembly is a land of Segmentation Faults and insanity.
21:51:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'assembly': Assembly is a land of Segmentation Faults and insanity.
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21:51:48 <int-e> is that masm syntax...
21:51:57 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: nasm: command not found
21:52:53 <int-e> Not even a dog-fetching-stick quote?
21:52:58 <shachaf> What do you think of `edit?
21:53:05 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
21:53:12 <HackEgo> wisdom/erlang \ wisdom/\oren\ \ wisdom/🐐 \ wisdom/sense \ wisdom/feather \ wisdom/notsuredom \ wisdom/deniability \ wisdom/doublethink
21:53:15 <shachaf> Except fizzie reinvented it.
21:53:39 <HackEgo> `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
21:53:44 <HackEgo> dpkg: error: need an action option \ \ Type dpkg --help for help about installing and deinstalling packages [*]; \ Use 'apt' or 'aptitude' for user-friendly package management; \ Type dpkg -Dhelp for a list of dpkg debug flag values; \ Type dpkg --force-help for a list of forcing options; \ Type dpkg-deb --help for help about manipulating *.deb fi
21:53:56 <wob_jonas> do we finally get an old-school line editor, BASIC/APL style?
21:54:02 <wob_jonas> I thought we get an in-IRC line editor
21:54:22 <shachaf> I was going to make that and then decided that this would be simpler.
21:55:01 <moonythedwarf> brb, (trying) to compile and set up NASM on hackeho
21:55:26 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf: have you considered yasm instead?
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22:04:29 <moonythedwarf> *tries abain, this time redirecting to a log file*
22:06:03 <moonythedwarf> RIP. ./configure is unable to finish running in time
22:09:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51626&oldid=51625 * Slord * (+55)
22:09:24 <int-e> moonythedwarf: http://sprunge.us/dDjS?gas works
22:09:27 <Zarutian> can anyone tell me what that plastic flute thing that can in Captin Crunch packs and could be used to generate 2600Hz was called?
22:09:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51627&oldid=51626 * Slord * (-68) removed duplicate sentence
22:10:19 <HackEgo> 2600 Hz is a tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle.
22:10:53 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: yeah, but I think it had more spefic name or description. Was it two tone whistle or?
22:11:34 <wob_jonas> dunno. i only eat Lucky Captain Rabbit King cereal
22:11:43 <wob_jonas> and that doesn't come with a whistle
22:13:24 <wob_jonas> I still think washing machines are magic
22:14:40 <Zarutian> bosun whistle it was called. Was looking for that.
22:14:41 <int-e> http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/companies/samsung-exploding-washing-machines/ <-- agreed
22:15:09 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: is that from a Zelda game?
22:19:01 <int-e> shachaf: to answer your earlier question, no, I don't listen to analysts
22:19:52 <hppavilion[1]> You know, I'm an expert in the sociological theory of member-impostor differentiation
22:20:22 <hppavilion[1]> (that's the field studied in <https://www.xkcd.com/451/>)
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22:27:06 <Zarutian> bo'sun whistle and not as I know of wob_jonas
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22:29:26 <\oren\> in an hour they're gonna launch a rocket
22:30:13 <Zarutian> oh, first reuse, that is pretty big step
22:30:30 <\oren\> a falcon 9 that was used to put a satellite up will be used on another one
22:32:35 <Zarutian> are they going to get it into that sats final orbit or just to a much easier transfer orbit?
22:33:32 <\oren\> the second stage does the full orbit
22:34:15 <\oren\> the first stage, which is reused, moslty just goes up into space and I think halfway to orbital velocty
22:34:33 <\oren\> and then comes down and lands on a ship
22:34:35 <Zarutian> geosynchronus or kepler rosette orbit like those iridum satelites are in?
22:34:56 <Zarutian> on a ship? You mean big unmanned barge, no?
22:35:35 <Zarutian> where are they launching from?
22:41:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51628&oldid=51627 * Slord * (+110) clarification on new lines in code
22:52:47 <hppavilion[1]> Are there high-level quantum languages yet I wonder?
22:53:11 <hppavilion[1]> [do high-level programming languages even look different when quantumified?]
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22:55:00 <shachaf> i,i http://algorithmicassertions.com/post/1703
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22:56:55 <shachaf> Well, the capitalized version looks like an owl face to me: I,I
22:57:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51629&oldid=51628 * Slord * (+35)
22:58:33 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: The 2D origin (0,0) is sometimes called "The Owl"
22:59:29 <hppavilion[1]> If you're dealing with quantum variables, the language couldn't possibly be normal, since otherwise you'd be cloning things
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23:03:04 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZSXav4wI8
23:03:57 <\oren\> the actual video starts art 6:07 right now they're just playing some weird ass music
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23:12:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51630&oldid=51629 * Slord * (+0) /* Example Code */
23:12:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51631&oldid=51630 * Slord * (+0) /* Execution Order */
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23:13:00 <Zarutian> „Of course I love you“ <- nice name for the drone ship
23:14:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51632&oldid=51631 * Slord * (+31)
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23:18:14 * Zarutian is tuned into the launch of reused Falcon 9 rocket Space X webcast (see spacex.com/webcast )
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23:20:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51633&oldid=51632 * Slord * (+104) Added categories
23:27:16 <wob_jonas> (probably even less, there's some delay)
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23:37:38 <wob_jonas> they caught the part that comes down
23:39:00 <wob_jonas> and now the famous guy is giving the speech of how important it is
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23:43:22 <Zarutian> shame about that satelite video uplink from the „Of Course I Still Love You“ drone ship
23:44:13 <\oren\> they need to invent rocket flame proof cameras
23:44:56 <Zarutian> it wasnt the cameras that went down, the air buffetting caused the atenna on the drone ship to miss alignment
23:47:37 <Zarutian> I would thought they would use a stabilized buyo half a kilometer away for that atenna. Just use a fiber optic cable from the drone ship to it.
23:48:24 <Zarutian> could even stick an extra camera on that buyo to get a wider perspective.
23:51:09 <Zarutian> but yeah that SES-10 satelite is going to provide some massive frequency bandwidth
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00:07:25 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I wonder if I can get fun things by applying the fallacy "If there is an X based on Y, then there is also an A X based on A Y of proportional significance" to https://www.xkcd.com/435/
00:08:39 <hppavilion[1]> Quantum Sociology is just applied Quantum Psychology; Quantum Psychology is just applied Quantum Biology; Quantum Biology is just applied Quantum Chemistry (a potentially-real thing!); Quantum Chemistry is just applied Quantum Physics
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00:38:22 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:38:34 <\oren\> they want the numbers in the json to be rounded
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00:52:33 <hppavilion[1]> I looked up "ASCII Table", and DuckDuckGo told me that SafeSearch had filtered some results
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01:03:07 <HackEgo> olist 1069: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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01:04:21 <shachaf> oerjan: you joined right after an olist hth
01:04:48 <shachaf> 17:03:28 <HackEgo> olist 1069: [redacted]
01:04:51 <shachaf> 17:03:30 --- join: oerjan (~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no) joined #esoteric
01:06:32 <HackEgo> Your omnipleasant principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
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01:07:30 <shachaf> `swrjan s.rant.arrant knave.
01:07:32 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipleasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing
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01:09:05 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipleasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the incisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing i
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01:12:38 <oerjan> `swrjan s/l/h/;s/cis/decis/;s/can //;s/meme/&s/
01:12:41 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he ever rememes. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it
01:12:42 <int-e> . o O ( He puns without giving notice. )
01:13:28 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he ever rememes. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:15:38 <shachaf> oerjan is an expert in merry compaction?
01:16:48 <int-e> . o O ( `learn_append oerjan//See also https://www.xkcd.com/1683/ )
01:17:14 <shachaf> oerjan: When should I compact my SSTables?
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01:17:51 <oerjan> whenever you feel like it hth
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05:54:51 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any uncountably-infinite sets of positive reals with a finite sum?
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06:09:03 <oerjan> note that to have a finite sum, only finitely many can be > 1/n, but then all of them are a countable union of finite sets
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06:54:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51634&oldid=51633 * Slord * (-3) Fixed typo
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07:11:13 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn earth/Topologically speaking, the earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
07:11:14 <HackEgo> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
07:11:19 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn earth//Topologically speaking, the earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
07:11:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'earth': Topologically speaking, the earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
07:11:39 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn earth//Topologically speaking, the Earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
07:11:41 <HackEgo> Relearned 'earth': Topologically speaking, the Earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
07:14:11 * hppavilion[1] . ∅ ∅ ( Hm, I suppose the existence of underground tunnels technically makes earth a genus <some huge number> object )
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07:26:15 <hppavilion[1]> I forget, was "Tubular" ever a slang the way "Radical" and "Far-out" were?
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09:50:02 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep `learn` | shuf -n1
09:50:05 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/: Is a directory \ grep: '':: No such file or directory
09:50:21 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '`learn' | shuf -n1
09:50:28 <HackEgo> 7048:2016-02-29 <oerjän> ` ln -s \'`learn\' wisdom/learn
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09:50:35 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> `learn' | shuf -n1
09:50:50 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> learn' | shuf -n1
09:50:57 <HackEgo> 9032:2016-09-13 <oerjän> learn HILTER is what happens when someone combines argumentum ad hitlerum, shouting, and muphry\'s law in one glorious clusterfuck.
09:51:03 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> learn' | shuf -n1
09:51:10 <HackEgo> 6642:2016-02-08 <oerjän> learn Chthonic lithping can be vethy dithturbing to lithten to.
09:51:16 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> learn' | shuf -n1
09:51:17 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> learn' | shuf -n1
09:51:18 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'oerjän' | grep '> learn' | shuf -n1
09:51:24 <HackEgo> 9056:2016-09-19 <oerjän> learn Homophones are pairs of words that sound totally gay together.
09:51:26 <HackEgo> 9197:2016-10-08 <oerjän> learn \xc3\x96rjan is oerjan\'s Nazi clone. He helps run the secret base on the backside of the moon.
09:51:29 <HackEgo> 8983:2016-08-27 <oerjän> learn NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
09:53:24 <HackEgo> NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
09:55:15 <int-e> is a wisdom entry allowed to be utterly and completely wrong?
09:56:49 <int-e> (Though I guess it's not clear whether it's wrong. Hmm hmm.)
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10:10:21 <olsner> are they allowed not to be?
10:10:34 <shachaf> int-e: I think the only wrong part is the word "the"
10:11:01 <shachaf> Ah, and the "thus completely solving them"
10:11:08 <int-e> shachaf: it depends in P = NP though, which may be exactly the point.
10:11:20 <int-e> oerjan can be wicked sometimes.
10:11:29 <int-e> or most of the time.
10:12:13 <shachaf> `1 dowg | grep 'oerjän> learn' | shuf -n5
10:12:21 <HackEgo> 1/2:718:2012-09-28 <oerjän> learn itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ 8586:2016-06-23 <oerjän> learn A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script. \ 8525:2016-06-18 <oerjän> learn Associativity means that h(th) = (ht)h, if you\'re flexible about it. \ 7280:2016-03-25 <oerjän> learn HTML is shor
10:12:24 <HackEgo> 2/2:t for "hope this mess loads" \ 9285:2016-10-15 <oerjän> learn Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable.
10:43:46 <HackEgo> HTML is short for "hope this mess loads".
10:51:21 <Taneb> I saw the cut-off version and all I could think of was Shor's algorithm
10:51:25 <Taneb> `? shor's algorithm
10:51:26 <HackEgo> shor's algorithm? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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11:12:15 <Taneb> pledis, Quantum algorithm for prime factorisation
11:13:00 <pledis> me a nobrainer but thanks
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11:49:39 <HackEgo> gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet.
12:03:57 <Taneb> I wonder if there's anywhere selling bound collections of man pages
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12:29:08 <Jafet> `le/rn shor's algorithm//Shor's algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
12:29:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'shor's algorithm': Shor's algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
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12:36:40 <Jafet> (related: “a new proof that 83 is prime” http://cr.yp.to/talks/2003.03.23/slides.pdf)
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15:03:21 <b_jonas> Ever week, DMM publishes four new strips and three reruns of Irregular Webcomics. And he reruns strip in the order of the original publication. I think that means that even though the number of unreran strips grow every week, an infinite time from now all the strips will have been reran.
15:04:49 <Taneb> b_jonas, it's conceivable that he at some point fully retires from comic creation
15:05:17 <b_jonas> Taneb: he did retire from Irregular Webcomic once already.
15:06:00 <b_jonas> The four new Irregular strips a week is the current situation, after he's retired from Irregular, while he's still working on other comics.
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15:16:59 <HackEgo> 384) <Taneb> Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 390) <Taneb> Cut to February <Taneb> War were declared <Taneb> A galaxy in turmoil <Taneb> Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 391) <Taneb> I can't afford one of those! <Taneb> A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 397) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insani
15:19:42 <HackEgo> 397) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur.
15:22:06 <HackEgo> 114) <ivancastillo75> Oh I get it you guys just use this space to do nothing ?
15:23:09 <Taneb> Is it weird I still think of myself as someone who's quite new here?
15:23:21 <Taneb> I've been approximately active on this channel for 7 years or so now
15:24:31 <int-e> I have no clue what precisely we're doing here.
15:24:42 <int-e> But I wouldn't ascribe that feeling to being new :)
15:26:30 <b_jonas> I'm not sure how long I've been here
15:26:36 <DHeadshot> Taneb: If you're new, what does that make me?
15:26:56 <Taneb> DHeadshot, not here yet
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16:11:17 <orby> morning morning
16:11:51 <moony> I've had the idea of making a esolang that only lets you use the various operations FILT (particle from The Powder Toy) has (with unlimited operators each time) on 29-bit words
16:11:57 <moony> and variables of course
16:12:44 <oerjan> int-e: `? NP-complete is part of a series, it needs to be read with the rest.
16:12:50 <HackEgo> NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
16:12:53 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decision problems that are No Problem.
16:13:02 <HackEgo> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
16:13:19 <moony> It would make for a intresting challange to see if basic math is possible, and, thanks to the existance of FILT having a randomizer mode, randomizers would be cheap :P
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16:15:35 <int-e> oerjan: it seems to me that it was more interesting in isolation :P
16:16:34 <int-e> but perhaps unintentionally so :P
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16:17:35 <oerjan> that girl genius battle is looking more and more like magic rather than science.
16:20:03 <HackEgo> Topologically speaking, the Earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
16:20:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1] is starting to get the hang of it
16:20:36 <HackEgo> Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell.
16:21:08 <HackEgo> 10547:2017-03-30 <wob_jonäs> revert \ 10546:2017-03-30 <moonythedwar̈f> le//rn rust//Rust is C++, but Python, but Extensible, but Memory safe, but designed by the makers of haskell \ 5911:2015-08-18 <tsweẗt> learn Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell. \ 5910:2015-08-18 <tsweẗt> learn Rust is what Haskell would be if it were C++.
16:21:30 <oerjan> moony: i don't you had the hang of it with that one hth
16:24:11 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> I forget, was "Tubular" ever a slang the way "Radical" and "Far-out" were? <-- the surfer characters on mezzacotta use it, i think, so maybe it was surfer slang?
16:24:49 <HackEgo> bin/card-by-name bin/random-card
16:25:26 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' -- "$1"
16:26:18 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e 'open$I,"<","/hackenv/share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die;$/=""; while(<$I>){/\A(?i)\Q$ARGV[0]/ and print}' "$1"
16:26:40 <b_jonas> random-card searches in the full text as it appears in that file, including the reminder text
16:26:49 <b_jonas> card-by-name searches at the start of the card name only
16:27:13 <b_jonas> also card-by-name prints all matching cards, whereas random-card prints a randomly chosen one
16:27:20 <HackEgo> "Ach! Hans, Run!" \ 2RRGG \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of your upkeep, you may say "Ach! Hans, run! It's the . . ." and name a creature card. If you do, search your library for the named card, put it into play, then shuffle your library. That creature has haste. Remove it from the game at end of turn. \ UNH-R \ \ A Display of My Dark Power
16:27:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: random-cadr: not found
16:27:27 <HackEgo> Authority of the Consuls \ W \ Enchantment \ Creatures your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped. \ Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, you gain 1 life. \ KLD-R
16:29:15 <oerjan> b_jonas: hm, wouldn't #/usr/bin/perl -- work just as well as that shell wrapping?
16:30:13 <oerjan> it needs the script name.
16:30:29 <oerjan> i guess it's getting that -- in that's the problem, then?
16:31:47 <b_jonas> oerjan: nah, #!/usr/bin/perl would work find
16:31:55 <HackEgo> Alabaster Wall \ 2W \ Creature -- Wall \ 0/4 \ Defender (This creature can't attack.) \ {T}: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player this turn. \ MM-C
16:35:23 <rdococ> if sgn(æ) = i, and the integral of sgn is abs+C, then |a+1| = |a| + i, which is interesting.
16:36:17 <rdococ> if sgn(æ) = i, ænd the integræl of sgn is æbs+C, then |æ+1| = |æ| + i, which is interesting.
16:38:59 <oerjan> . o O ( "æ e i a." "æ e i a æ å!" )
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16:43:42 <rdococ> So, what is |æ|? We can assume that sgn(-æ) = -i, and |-æ+1| = |-æ| - i.
16:44:20 <rdococ> Ooh, interesting. sgn(-æ) = 1/sgn(æ).
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16:47:18 <rdococ> As a general rule of thumb, it seems that sgn(næ) = sgn(æ/-n). For example, sgn(3æ)=3i, and sgn(-æ/3)=1/((1/3)i)=3i. I think. Not sure.
16:48:24 <rdococ> Well, sgn(næ)=ni, and sgn(-næ)=-ni or -i/n.
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17:01:49 <\oren\> I thought that sgn(i) = i?
17:02:37 <rdococ> then abs wouldn't be the integral of sgn anymore.
17:02:48 <shapr> six pack integrals
17:03:07 <\oren\> because sgn(x) is usually defined as x/|x|
17:03:36 <\oren\> (with sgn(0) usually defined to 0)
17:04:26 <\oren\> absolute value of a complex number is its distance from 0
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17:05:20 <rdococ> . o O ( sgn(x) = x/|x| would also mean that sgn is coabs, rather than abs being cosign )
17:05:35 <HackEgo> The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break that.
17:07:26 <\oren\> if complex numbers are vectors, sgn is the unit vector in a vector's direction
17:11:36 <\oren\> max(a,b) = a/2 + b/2 + |a - b|/2
17:14:43 <rdococ> You could extend the allowed range/domain/whatever of a and b to include stuff like max(i, 3).
17:15:51 <rdococ> i/2 + i + |i/2 - i|/2 = 0.5i + 1i + |-0.5i|/2 = 1.5i + 0.5 = 0.25 + 1.5i.
17:16:39 <rdococ> . o O ( calculators could do with \ )
17:31:41 <\oren\> I once made a calculator program that had \, -+ (reverse -) and the v (reverse ^) operators
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17:32:34 <\oren\> mostly because I didn't knwo how to implement parentheses
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17:35:23 <rdococ> You don't need parentheses, just variables.
17:35:48 <rdococ> For example, x / (y + z) is equivalent to b=y+z; x/b
17:35:51 <LKoen> if you've already done everything else, a recursive call on top of your main function would probably be enough to add parentheses
17:36:42 <LKoen> rdococ: it's not *exactly* equivalent if the b is not bound to that statement
17:37:13 <rdococ> LKoen: What else would it be bound to in a calculator?
17:37:46 <LKoen> well, I mean, "b = 3; x / (y + z); b" and "b = 3; b=y+z; x/b; b" are not equivalent
17:38:47 <LKoen> something like "let b = y+z in x/b" would make it completely equivalent
17:39:45 <rdococ> s/b=y+z; x\/b/let b=y+z in x\/b
17:45:27 <moony> Ima try and implement a Reverse Polish Notation lib in rust for fun, and try and make it as flexible as possible (make it not just a calculator :P)
17:46:00 <rdococ> or in the previous case, x y z +
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17:52:28 <\oren\> I should add a backward % to my font
17:53:03 <rdococ> anyway, rather than reverse - you could have unary -
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17:54:37 <rdococ> Well, there are three options:
17:54:57 <rdococ> 1) reverse operators. 2) parentheses. 3) variables.
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17:55:13 <rdococ> okay, there's also 4) reverse polish notation
17:57:01 <rdococ> or 5) brainfuck interface
18:00:08 <\oren\> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/272826/comments/46 <-- IDIOT!
18:03:30 <\oren\> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/272826/comments/28 <- MORON
18:03:46 <\oren\> Of course the -o/-a endings are relevant to Spanish, Italian or
18:03:46 <\oren\> whatever Latin based language, but what about Japanese? The -o ending
18:03:46 <\oren\> is female and the -a ending is male...So it will simply not be
18:03:47 <\oren\> possible to make it work "globally" I fear..
18:04:18 <\oren\> WHAT KIND OF MORON THINKS JAPANESE HAS GENDER ENDINGS ON WORDS
18:04:46 <rdococ> You act like you're surprised.
18:05:08 <rdococ> Also, THEY'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT JAPANESE. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ITS ROMANIZATION
18:06:29 <rdococ> Oh my god, just call them contributors... How flickeringly hard is it?
18:07:42 <rdococ> Two things are infinite in the universe. Human stupidity, and human judgementality.
18:08:02 <hppavilion[1]> Has anybody completed http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2009/10/22/ yet
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18:14:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SirGatez * New user account
18:23:33 <oerjan> <int-e> flexible, hmm <-- yep!
18:27:26 <oerjan> . o O ( TETSUO! ... KANEDA! )
18:30:01 <oerjan> norwegian nmes in -a are usually feminine - except for the most stereotypical name of all, Ola.
18:30:19 <int-e> "TETSUO! and KANEDA! are a pair of catchphrases from the movie Akira, from an scene where the characters Kaneda and Tetsuo yell each other’s name. The phrases are often used as a forum game and spamming practise."
18:30:40 <oerjan> int-e: the only thing that helps is reading the whole comic hth
18:31:00 <oerjan> oh movie. i haven't seen that.
18:31:19 <int-e> I think I have, actually, but a long time ago.
18:32:03 <int-e> oerjan: anyway I was wondering whether "flexible" had any hidden technical (mathematical) meaning in that context.
18:32:25 <int-e> or whether it's just that associativity should have 3 instead of 2 variables.
18:33:26 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_algebra hth
18:33:45 <int-e> Yeah I should have found that earlier...
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18:34:39 <shachaf> oerjan: nmes = names in -a
18:34:44 <shachaf> oerjan: it all worked out hth
18:35:37 <int-e> Unfortunately it appears that I sometimes have to type out questions before asking $google.
18:36:59 <shachaf> Hmm, does anyone else here read Matt Levine?
18:37:06 <shachaf> There should be a levinelist.
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18:38:55 <HackEgo> Shor's algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
18:39:30 <oerjan> shachaf: it seems that your greppinf for my `learns has provoked other people into making good wisdoms tdh
18:39:36 <HackEgo> 10564:2017-03-31 <Jafët> le/rn shor\'s algorithm//Shor\'s algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
18:39:55 <oerjan> although i'm not sure of the Taneb part.
18:40:10 <shachaf> fizzie: Can the \' escaping in HackEgo history be fixed somehow?
18:40:19 <rdococ> Out of curiosity, what is the algorithm for determing whether a subject is Tanebvented?
18:40:35 <oerjan> rdococ: i don't think Taneb has invented that yet
18:41:36 <rdococ> Taneb, can you invent it?
18:41:58 <shachaf> Taneb didn't invent Shor's algorithm, anyway.
18:42:02 <shachaf> Well, not according to that wisdom.
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19:05:55 <fizzie> shachaf: Which \' escaping is that?
19:06:22 <HackEgo> <Jafët> le/rn shor\'s algorithm//Shor\'s algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it. \ <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn\'t be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break tha
19:06:43 <shachaf> `` hoag | grep \' | grep -v \\\'
19:07:11 <shachaf> Of course, if you change it now, it'll be complicated to process historical hogs.
19:09:34 <fizzie> Oh, right, it's part of the actual message, I guess?
19:10:18 <fizzie> I was thinking it's just an output formatting issue.
19:10:56 <shachaf> It's in the commit message.
19:11:17 <shachaf> You'll need to rewrite history after you fix it.
19:11:49 <fizzie> I might manage to fix it, but I'm not going to start rewriting history.
19:13:38 <shachaf> What, so scripts that rerun old commands from history will have to discriminate between pre- and post-fix commands?
19:14:14 <int-e> . o O ( Life is failing to be perfect. )
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19:22:13 <shachaf> fizzie likes commands that contain the letter w
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19:26:50 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl2Q_MceIUc&t=1368s
19:32:48 <int-e> oh cute, I found a chainsaw.
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19:37:15 <int-e> chainsaw. A chainsaw of disappointment, to be precise.
19:37:53 <\oren\> you don't like haddaway - what is love slowed down?
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20:54:53 <hppavilion[1]> I have a python command-line tool that relies on an enormous library called PyMovie
20:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> Every time I start the program, there's a like 30-second overhead while the library is loaded, *every* time I run the command
20:56:15 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to cache the library so that it doesn't need to load so often? Like, have a host process that doesn't die (as often) to run the operation then have a simpler program as the command itself to trigger the server?
20:58:15 <moony> Hmm, i noticed HBL (Halting Binary Logic, i made it) again, and realise how many improvements could be made to the page :P
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21:05:36 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
21:11:50 <moony> but yea, ima look over my HBL -> Boolfuck (semiconversion, due to halting problem shenanigns) translation.
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23:00:09 <shachaf> kmc: did you see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/abc/paper.pdf
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23:07:46 <kmc> COM is the best binary format
23:08:44 <Phantom_Hoover> my favourite binary format is that one created solely for nasm to flex all its binary format muscles
23:16:58 <zzo38> How is that format working?
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23:25:15 <zzo38> I did not read it yet
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23:25:49 <int-e> hmm when I wrote ASCII-only code I cheated and patched it. So it is rather impressive
23:26:04 <int-e> (patching meaning I wrote self-modifying code)
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23:47:48 <hppavilion[1]> I really like how gcd and lcm correspond to folding max and min over prime factorizations, respectively
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