00:20:25 <int-e> do seagulls taste like chicken?
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00:53:56 <boily> apparently at least some seagulls are or were edible, or non-toxic: http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2015/07/how-to-cook-sea-gull.html
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01:38:39 <lambdabot> LOWI 010020Z AUTO VRB06G16KT 9999 NCD 13/M01 Q1009
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02:27:25 <lambdabot> CYUL 010125Z 02008KT 15SM -RA OVC048 06/02 A3020 RMK SC8 -RA INTMT PRESRR SLP228
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02:55:39 <\oren\> Agatha Knife is a good game too
03:13:31 <shachaf> `addquote <Jafet> an #esoteric-dwelling swede / was mistaken for edible feed / “with you,” said a sicko / “our lanttulaatikko / would be very tasty indeed!”
03:13:33 <HackEgo> 1311) <Jafet> an #esoteric-dwelling swede / was mistaken for edible feed / “with you,” said a sicko / “our lanttulaatikko / would be very tasty indeed!”
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03:34:58 <adu> hppavilion[1]: hi
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04:07:34 <adu> hyperoperations are the best
04:07:52 <adu> my friend likes zeration
04:07:59 <adu> I personally like tetration
04:08:14 <hppavilion[1]> [for now, I will use the notation a[n]b as equivalent H_n(b, c)]
04:08:28 <hppavilion[1]> I'm trying to determine what properties are consistent across them
04:08:47 <adu> that's the only property
04:09:14 <adu> there is this one thing
04:09:19 <adu> let me find the link
04:10:02 <hppavilion[1]> I conjecture that (a[k]b)[k+1]c = (a[k+1]c) [k] (a[k+1]c) forall a, b, c, k
04:10:29 <adu> is that the definition?
04:10:36 <hppavilion[1]> [note that any variable of unspecified type is assumed to be natural]
04:10:37 <adu> if it is, then yes, it's true
04:10:54 <adu> ... by definition
04:11:15 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Using the standard definition. I could definitely be wrong. I usually am :P
04:11:49 <adu> http://math.eretrandre.org/tetrationforum/showthread.php?tid=97&pid=904#pid904
04:12:11 * adu is andydude
04:13:58 <adu> hppavilion[1]: where is b on the RHS?
04:14:38 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, a[0]b = a+1; (a[0]b)[1]c = (a+1)+c = a+1+c; (a[1]c) [0] (b[1]c) = (a+c)+1 = a+c+1, so as long as + is commutative (read: as long as we're using a reasonable definition of +), it still holds for k=0
04:14:43 <adu> hppavilion[1]: "(a[k+1]c) [k] (a[k+1]c)"
04:14:48 <adu> I don't see any "b"
04:15:59 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( I wonder what form of "OK" I usually use )
04:19:14 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I know it's true for k == 2
04:20:10 <hppavilion[1]> adu: It's well-known to be true (as in, it's some Algebra I shit) for k = 1, 2, and I just proved it for k = 0
04:20:25 <adu> I would have to calculate for k == 3 becayse that requires knowledge of tetration
04:21:13 <adu> My tetration library is on another hard drive, so I would have to go digging
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04:36:40 <hppavilion[1]> Gragh, I can't get latex to put an expression in an underbrace in an exponenet
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05:00:37 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: AFAICT, finding such a thing is pretty much adu's life's work
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05:14:37 <adu> doesthiswork: that's rediculous
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05:22:07 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Hm, I wonder if defining the hyperoperations so zeration is a[1]b is a good plan... I see something we might be able to pull off with that
05:22:21 <doesthiswork> woops, I forgot about those, just assume linear interpolation
05:22:41 <adu> hppavilion[1]: what can we pull off?
05:23:25 <hppavilion[1]> If we do that, and assume k = e^θi (that is, k is on the unit circle at the angle θ), a[k]b = a+k
05:26:54 <Jafet> (shachaf: should context-free limericks / really be quoted? / surely the DB is bloated / already with many a / fool and his dazzled perception / of what should be funnier / notarizing every disingenious volkssage)
05:27:41 <Jafet> (the chance might be slim, for ex- / ample, that hereafter / seekers of prurient laughter / recalling this memette / but not its conception / would probably see it / as more than punning scandinavian-as-rutabaga)
05:28:12 <Jafet> ok finding a rhyme for rutabaga was hard
05:28:29 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: I wish rutabaga were orange. Also, is it rhyming at all?
05:29:18 <hppavilion[1]> (I mean, I see two rhymes, but they're pretty irregular)
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05:32:59 <hppavilion[1]> adu: ...I wonder if having complex-index hyperoperations behave so that the cube roots of n^3 represent Hyper n, Hyperroot n, and Hyperlog n would- oh, you're gone
05:34:17 <Jafet> so there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration#Extension_to_complex_heights
05:39:04 <hppavilion[1]> Fun Fact: If you do `cd ..` from the root directory with sufficient permissions, your cwd will change to "the universe"
05:39:15 <hppavilion[1]> And you'll be able to modify reality from the command line
05:39:53 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: what about hyperloglog n hth
05:40:09 <shachaf> i,i Tetragammation#Extension_to_complex_heights
05:40:28 <shachaf> Until today I thought it was called that. Apparently it's "tetragammaton".
05:41:05 <hppavilion[1]> $ cd /..; echo "Kill them all" >> people/jacob-mcalister/brain/thoughts
05:41:30 <shachaf> Jafet's rhyme is pretty good but I'm in no state of mind to respond in kind.
05:41:38 <hppavilion[1]> Now poor Mr. McAlister has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic
05:41:57 <hppavilion[1]> (just be happy for him that I used ">>" instead of ">")
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05:44:59 <zzo38> Are you going to tell them to add the support for farbfeld into ImageMagick (for completeness)?
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05:49:03 <shachaf> We need to institute a code review policy for the topic.
05:49:03 <zzo38> I don't know. I have read the RFC at one time but I forget whether or not it mentioned any maximum (and if it did, what it is).
05:49:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Probably. I was going to readd the standard header: "The international hub of Esoteric Programming Language discussion, design, development, and deployment"
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05:50:06 <shachaf> Why? This is already enough content.
05:50:15 <shachaf> People get that information in the welcome message anyway.
05:50:24 <shachaf> Short topics are better than long topics.
05:50:49 * hppavilion[1] resists the urge to blank the topic and replace it with that
05:51:09 <zzo38> The URL for the log should remain in the topic message at least.
05:51:19 <shachaf> The one that hasn't worked for months?
05:51:23 <zzo38> The one that works.
05:51:31 <shachaf> But that one has incomplete history.
05:52:09 <shachaf> Maybe all the URLs should be replaced with a wiki link.
05:52:21 <shachaf> It can link to the PDF, if people care about the PDF. Then that doesn't need to be in the topic.
05:52:25 <zzo38> No, I think is better to be directly for the log URLs at least.
05:52:38 <shachaf> But the wiki never goes down.
05:52:50 <zzo38> For other stuff (such as that PDF) it could go into wiki.
05:52:59 <shachaf> We just need a Gopher API to it so it works for all users.
05:53:11 <shachaf> Gopher interface, whatever it is.
05:53:33 <zzo38> Making the logs available on gopher should be easily enough to implement.
05:58:59 <Sgeo> RIP flash easter eggs on Newgrounds
05:59:24 <Sgeo> I just watched an old flash video and NG secretly converted it to actual video... which eliminated some easter eggs I liked
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07:22:21 <zzo38> I tried compressing various pictures by using farbfeld and then compressing with gzip, bzip2, and xz, with various other filters and options. Some pictures compress better with bzip2, some compress better with xz, and even with xz, some compress better with delta-coding and some work better without. Sometimes Paeth helps, but sometimes it makes it worse.
07:24:27 <zzo38> FLIF seems to be much better compression. I read the information of file format and there seem some thing missing.
07:24:53 <pikhq> FLIF is fairly complex, isn't it?
07:25:10 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I think so.
07:26:19 <zzo38> But see http://flif.info/example.html and it list the various compressed sizes. Using the picture of the fish there, covnerted to farbfeld, "ff-turn 5 | ff-paeth e | ff-turn 5 | bzip2 -9" results in 381632 bytes.
07:29:57 <zzo38> (ff-turn is reversed by using ff-turn again with the same number; ff-paeth e is reversed by ff-paeth d.)
07:31:18 <pikhq> That's roughly what I'd expect.
07:31:45 <zzo38> What is roughly what you would expect? (I am not sure what you are referring to)
07:31:48 <pikhq> With Paeth you're basically doing the same thing as PNG, only with a smarter general-purpose compression algorithm than deflate.
07:32:03 <pikhq> The 381632 bytes for the BZ2-compressed Paeth Farbfeld file.
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07:33:10 <zzo38> Ah, OK. (Although this command is also making Paeth in a different direction, because ff-turn is flipping/rotating the picture before and after the Paeth coding.)
07:36:05 <zzo38> I would want to add a FLIF encoder and FLIF decoder into Farbfeld Utilities though; encoder/decoder for other formats should also be added.
07:43:48 <zzo38> Probably why the documentation for near zero symbol coding in the FLIF specification is difficult to understand, is due to because RAC is not described (it just says "TODO: describe the 24-bit RAC and the 12-bit chances.")
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11:21:20 <rdococ> we forgot mewe and mewpi
11:22:03 <rdococ> Actually, I was using exclusive "we", which makes some sense in context.
11:24:20 <Taneb> No, it was just you
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11:25:38 <rdococ> How do you know I'm not with someone else?
11:26:17 <rdococ> I forgot, you guys don't know what a joke is, unless it's in wisdom.
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11:26:53 <rdococ> I'm going to say this for every time I annoy you: I'm sorry.
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11:44:55 <int-e> sigh, free day... need to prepare a talk... fun.
11:45:24 <boily> int-ello. we don't have a free day today :(
11:46:40 <int-e> Well it's called Labour Day after all.
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11:47:47 <erkin> What kind of country doesn't have a free day on Labour Day?
11:48:25 <oerjan> erkin: the us, probably.
11:48:41 <oerjan> and then they push canada into doing the same.
11:48:43 <boily> hellorkin. us too, certainly.
11:48:44 <int-e> (actually in Austria it's called "Staatsfeiertag", but it's still rooted in the Labour Day tradition)
11:49:33 <int-e> (Staat = state. Confusingly there's a "Nationalfeiertag" as well, which is synonymous, so I never know which is which.)
11:49:36 * erkin checks to see if police brutality happened today
11:50:02 <int-e> (Oh I didn't translate the rest. "Feiertag", literally is "day of celebration".)
11:50:25 <erkin> It started early today.
11:50:51 <oerjan> . o O ( while January 1 is Staatsfeuertag )
11:51:04 <erkin> I thought that was New Year's Day
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11:52:00 <erkin> ...I still don't get it D:
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11:52:44 <erkin> Wasn't yesterday Walpurgisnacht?
11:53:33 <oerjan> probably. we don't have that in norway (we do the bonfires on st john's eve, June 23)
11:55:14 <erkin> Our bonfire thing was in 21 March
11:55:35 <oerjan> that's definitely too cold for a bonfire... er wait
11:56:10 * oerjan gets confused by bonfires being a midsummer thing
11:56:38 <erkin> Do you dance around maypoles on May Day?
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11:57:08 <oerjan> no. that may be the swedes.
11:57:28 <oerjan> well it _is_ the swedes, i'm just not sure when.
11:57:45 <erkin> Probably sometime midsommar.
11:58:36 <boily> enjoying bonfires around la St-Jean sounds like a shared tradition ^^
11:58:58 <erkin> I want to visit Norway someday.
11:59:06 <erkin> And check their local native beer scene.
11:59:06 <oerjan> our big day in may is may 17, the national day.
12:00:24 <erkin> Stuff like spissøl (svagdricka), maltøl (Malzbier), hvidtøl, kornøl, Vossaøl, Stjørdalsøl etc.
12:01:21 <oerjan> the tradition for today, which not that many join, is the laborer's parade.
12:02:01 <oerjan> well it's not that big any more. although the politicians (at least some parties) make sure to show up.
12:05:02 <rdococ> /faij/ + schwa at the end
12:05:15 <rdococ> or I if you like SAMPA
12:05:30 <oerjan> wait, are you talking about Feuer
12:05:41 <rdococ> no, the pronunciation of <fire>
12:06:06 <oerjan> i don't think it's a schwa in rhotic dialects
12:06:19 <oerjan> or rather, it's a rhotacized one
12:06:37 <rdococ> also, my dialect is non-rhotic, so there's that
12:07:54 <oerjan> i vaguely think the austrians pronounce "Feuer" pretty close to that.
12:10:16 <oerjan> hm /ˈfaɪər/ says wiktionary
12:11:17 <erkin> Might be dialectal as well.
12:11:32 <oerjan> yes, it's with a list of dialects
12:12:23 <oerjan> i don't know that term.
12:18:18 <boily> glyphically correct, but the pronounciation hurts :P
12:19:29 <rdococ> I also pronounce fire with a /j/
12:24:22 <erkin> I pronounce it faɪə
12:25:49 <rdococ> I still think it should be spelt fiyer or faiyer or something similar
12:26:00 <rdococ> okay, maybe not think it should
12:27:37 <rdococ> interestingly, I've read that its root in Old English is <fyr>
12:31:18 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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12:38:02 * rdococ glues boily's mouth shut with maple syrup
12:45:23 <rdococ> so I guess it should be fier, like how metre is now spelt meter (at least in the US)
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13:04:22 <oerjan> still is "fyr" in norwegian hth
13:05:18 <oerjan> it's not actually the main word for fire any longer, though.
13:05:30 <rdococ> what is the main word for fire now then?
13:06:24 <oerjan> well, i don't know that it ever was, i'm not a norse expert.
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13:22:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51831&oldid=51823 * Programmer5000 * (+155)
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14:26:52 <rdococ> imagine an RPG where each species is a class, and its specimen are instances of it
14:27:29 <rdococ> "I am deleting, no, not just your life force, but your class life force! All humans will be gone! Mw ha ha ha!"
14:29:05 <rdococ> "They would, but you forgot one thing." "What?!" "I've just disconnected you from your name. garbagecollection:collect()" "...Fuck."
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16:05:31 <moony> I've decided to write a bot that randomly chooses a topic from a list, and asks about it when a channel has been inactive for 5 minutes because why not
16:09:19 <Taneb> That sounds annoying
16:09:30 <Taneb> Could you make the timer a couple of hours instead?
16:09:48 <Taneb> Otherwise the channel's gonna be 90% your bot spamming things up
16:17:12 <fizzie> There's a lot of reasons[^1] why not, but if you're doing this on some other channel, knock yourself out. [^1] To name a few, it would entirely ruin activity indicators, and be really annoying for people who want to logread without a hundred lines of spam.
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16:37:37 <moony> Its not for this channel lol
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16:54:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aya]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51832&oldid=50988 * Npaul * (-4)
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18:10:55 <Zarutian> moony: you could increase the timer to 15 minutes
18:12:08 <zzo38> Fifteen minute is not enough you should need fifteen hours.
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19:11:17 <zzo38> This GURPS game is so far four character in main party, and so far only the two human characters is damaged the monster characters is not but we can try to find the barn to heal them. In one way is fortunate that only human character is damage because is probably more easily to find help; any healers (using non-magical methods) can have physiology penalties.
19:12:18 <zzo38> (Some skills in GURPS have physiology penalties for operating on different species.)
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21:14:05 <\oren\> RRGH why is there no open-source tax filing software
21:16:23 <zzo38> I have thought about that too.
21:16:44 <moony> \oren\, LETS MAKE ONE \s
21:16:45 <zzo38> I found a description written somewhere (on pin eight wiki I think?) that mentions a possible reason.
21:16:54 <zzo38> moony: Yes, but do you know how?
21:17:49 <moony> did you not see my \s?
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21:25:13 <\oren\> I was listening to the 1980 us election the other day. Apparently Ohio has been losing industrial jobs for 36 years
21:37:24 <\oren\> also holy shit chris wallace is older than fucking dirt
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21:54:53 <\oren\> actually, 2048 is a great election year, the only pwoer-of-two election year
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22:24:49 <\oren\> gabrielle cirulli for president 2048
22:30:23 <\oren\> shachaf: aww you didn't get it
22:31:01 <\oren\> 2048 is an USA election year and also a video game made by gabriele cirulli
22:32:59 <shachaf> But you're not in the US so why are US election years your thing?
22:33:20 <Taneb> They have olympics in them
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22:33:59 <shachaf> It's also a Finnish election year, for example.
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22:41:58 <\oren\> shachaf: because for us canadians, USA elections are things we watch for morbid entertainment
22:42:13 <shachaf> but you're a non-us canadian hth
22:42:32 <HackEgo> The US is the country opposed to the THEM.
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22:56:51 <HackEgo> preprocessor//Preprocessing code in C was actually the precursor to IRC & Twitter, and the first to kick off the hashtag craze.
22:59:38 <HackEgo> 10746:2017-04-16 <rdocöc> le//rn preprocessor//Preprocessing code in C was actually the precursor to IRC & Twitter, and the first to kick off the hashtag craze.
23:02:22 <int-e> I hope that wasn't superglue
23:02:44 <int-e> phew seems I'm still detached.
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23:04:41 <boily> if anything, you'd be glued to a pooch, which isn't half bad, eh?
23:07:46 <int-e> I don't particularly like dogs.
23:08:13 <int-e> But it doesn't matter now. I'm off to bed.
23:08:40 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans.
23:11:13 <HackEgo> epsilon//epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM)
23:11:20 <HackEgo> taiwan//Taiwan is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Macedonia is.
23:11:36 <HackEgo> ent//Ents are very useful creatures for the puzzle of writing town names in Hungary as the catenation of six or more Hungarian words. Bal-a-s-s-a-gyarmat Bal-a-ton-{s-zár-szó,{rend,szem}-e-s} Egy-ház-a-s-holló-s Fel-s-ősz-ent-már-ton Jász-ár-ok-száll-á-s Ki-s-kun-{fél-egy-ház-a,hal-a-s} Rá-basz-ent-mik-ló-s Vér-te-s-sző-lő-s.
23:11:41 <HackEgo> mark//A mark of one's destiny singled out alone, fulfilled.
23:11:49 <HackEgo> hat//hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo
23:12:21 <HackEgo> 4129:2013-12-05 <oerjän> echo "hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo" >wisdom/hat
23:12:48 <HackEgo> 5602:2015-06-17 <Tanëb> learn epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM)
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23:17:16 <boily> . o O ( oerjan did hat? I'm sure it's the kind of wisdom I do... )
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23:29:58 <HackEgo> patch//patch is the precursor to both perl and version control.
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00:19:38 <HackEgo> treefolk//Treefolk are genericized treants for intellectual property reasons.
00:20:24 <shachaf> `grwp intellectual property
00:20:38 <HackEgo> halfling:Halflings are genericized hobbits for intellectual property reasons. \ keenlist:keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast \ kithkin:Kithkins are genericized halflings for intellectual property reasons, except th
00:21:26 <shachaf> `2 grwp 'intellectual property'
00:21:28 <HackEgo> 2/3:ons, except they also have some limited telepathy to remote sense each others' emotions. \ termite:Termites are genericized ants for intellectual property reasons. \ treant:Treants are genericized ents for intellectual property reasons. \ treefolk:Treefolk are genericized treants for intellectual property reasons. \ vegemite:Vegemite
00:21:43 <HackEgo> 3/3:is genericized marmite for intellectual property reasons.
00:21:58 <shachaf> `grwp intellectual propriety
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02:07:39 <hppavilion[1]> @tell boily Happy maday! Do you plan to do a mapole dance?
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04:21:45 <HackEgo> You like Gaspacho and I like Gazpacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
04:22:04 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
04:22:11 <HackEgo> gaspasjo:Gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days \ gaspatsjo:gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days \ gaszpacho:gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days \ mothball:Mothballs are the main ingredient of a traditional soup of Eastern Europe
04:24:08 <shachaf> oerjan: do you like gazpoocho?
04:24:16 <shachaf> i,i `learn Gospecho is a cold soup invented by Bill Gosper.
04:25:19 <shachaf> Hmm, there should be a rule of wisdom that says they have to terminate any special IRC formatting they introduce.
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05:29:54 <sleffy> You know it's time to go to sleep when you make an audible "squee" noise at the excitement of someone else's working Scheme interpreter
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05:38:06 <sleffy> Please don't euthanize me. I have so many ridiculous things to write.
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06:06:27 <hppavilion[0]> You're given information about the track you're on, and you have to (a) use physics to calculate the exact properties of this Trolley problem then (b) determine whether you should swerve
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10:37:03 <HackEgo> [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER]
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11:36:58 <HackEgo> cigar//A cigar is either a penis or just a cigar, dependent on Freud's current mood.
11:39:02 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found
11:39:32 <HackEgo> bin/hello \ bin/hello-world-in-any-language
11:39:57 <HackEgo> 4699:2014-07-27 <ellioẗt> ` rm bin/{node,ello} \ 4071:2013-11-22 <mrhmous̈e> chmod +x bin/ello \ 4070:2013-11-22 <mrhmous̈e> mv raw.php* bin/ello \ 4068:2013-11-22 <mrhmous̈e> chmod +x bin/ello \ 4067:2013-11-22 <mrhmous̈e> mv raw.php* bin/ello \ 4058:2013-11-22 <mrhmous̈e> echo "(function(){var e,l,o,t;t=process.argv[2],(null!=t?t.length:vo
11:40:24 <HackEgo> 8838:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?$c&8?",":"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\\n");\' \ 8837:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello"
11:40:43 <HackEgo> 2448:2013-03-17 <Tanëb> echo "echo Hello" > bin/hello \ 2454:2013-03-18 <Bik̈e> chmod +x bin/hello \ 8831:2016-07-24 <int-̈e> rm bin/hello \ 8832:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"h",pack"h",$ARGV[0]",($c&4?"w":"W"),"orld",($c&8?"."),"\\n";\' &&chmod -c a+x $e \ 8833:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> ``
11:41:15 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 9h 33m 35s ago: Happy maday! Do you plan to do a mapole dance?
11:41:21 <oerjan> i thought we had a command for that...
11:41:54 <oerjan> now i'm imagining a canadian monty python sketch...
11:42:24 <oerjan> with those police in red
11:42:37 <boily> I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK ♪
11:43:10 <oerjan> except with mapole dancing, obviously
11:46:08 <oerjan> incidentally there's a norwegian dance involving a pole and a hat https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lausdans
11:48:40 <boily> what the fungot is going on in that picture...
11:49:00 <oerjan> the traditional hat kicking leap hth
11:49:09 <oerjan> (which is the high point of the dance)
11:50:13 <oerjan> here's a youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wq6If8MsFQ
11:57:26 <oerjan> . o O ( the harding fiddle is like the lutefisk of music. )
12:01:05 <boily> . o O ( what's the resonnance frequency of a lutefisk... )
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12:23:19 * boily joyfully mapoles Jafet
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12:54:53 <HackEgo> gaspasjo:Gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days \ gaspatsjo:gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days \ gaszpacho:gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days \ mothball:Mothballs are the main ingredient of a traditional soup of Eastern Europe
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14:21:41 <HackEgo> hello hello hello, what's all this then?
14:21:46 <HackEgo> `hello prints variants of hello, world. To control format, pass a single letter as command-line argument. "@"=>"hello, world", "H"=>"hello, world.", P=>"hello, world!", "X"=>"hello, world,", take 1 letter later to s/h/H/, 2 letter later to s/d,/d/, 4 letter later to s/w/W/, lowercase to remove newline.
14:22:07 <ais523> is this a very simple golfing language?
14:22:18 <wob_jonas> oerjan: and I'm sorry about that, I got carried away with encoding six bits of info in the argument, so feel free to replace it with a saner script if you wish
14:22:30 <ais523> also, what's lowercase @? `?
14:22:59 <ais523> I'm a little scared I have that memorized
14:23:13 <wob_jonas> ais523: and the lowercase of "_" is "?" in this case, because only modulo 64 matters
14:23:25 <wob_jonas> ais523: I think many people here know the ascii table memorized
14:23:35 <wob_jonas> I certainly do (at least the printable characters, I don't remember all the controls)
14:23:38 <ais523> I don't have it all memorized
14:23:51 <wob_jonas> I also know some important non-ascii unicode stuff
14:23:59 * ais523 idly wonders if anyone's memorized all of Unicode
14:24:28 <ais523> hmm, something that caught me out a bunch programming Jelly is that Đ and Ð are not the same character
14:24:43 <ais523> I can't distinguish them in any font I've seen them in
14:24:55 <HackEgo> [U+0110 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE] [U+00D0 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ETH]
14:25:05 <wob_jonas> ascii isn't that hard. it's just like space ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / then 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ?
14:25:40 <ais523> the first few punctuation marks catch me out because they're almost just the shifted numbers on a US keyboard
14:25:48 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, those look the same in most fonts. they differ in mine and in oren's, but that's because we specifically make them distinguishable. normally you distinguish them from context: in a serbian word it must be D with stroke, in an icelandic word it's capital eth
14:25:52 <ais523> but ^ is missing, ' is added, and * is the wrong side of ()
14:26:21 <ais523> wob_jonas: right, and they're clearly distinct characters because đ and ð, the lowercase versions, are obviously different
14:26:30 <wob_jonas> and then @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O then P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _
14:26:53 <wob_jonas> then ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o then p q r s t u v w x y z { | } ~ del
14:27:51 <wob_jonas> where del is the character with all bits set that was used in 7-hole ticker tape to overpunch a character so it's ignored on read, that way when you read back the ticker tape, you no longer get the backspacing and correction printed, only the correct version
14:28:31 <wob_jonas> they didn't have that in 5-bit ticker tape, because they had too few bytes available, so there you couldn't easily correct mistakes without rewriting
14:29:07 <ais523> and nul is ignored for similar reasons
14:29:18 <ais523> (it's space you left on the tape to be able to insert characters)
14:29:29 <wob_jonas> only, nobody really uses this, because by the time people started to use 7-bit instead of 5-bit, they stopped using ticker tape, because magnetic disks and RAM and cpus became cheap enough to store text on magnetic disks
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14:36:51 <wob_jonas> I bought TAOCP 3rd ed, original English (the translation is based on 2nd ed) in the PDF edition. In vol. 1 p. 140, which lists the MMIX six-bit character table, the greek letters don't show up, instead some other symbols are shown.
14:37:51 <wob_jonas> Those same garbage symbols show up later in an exercise. This isn't mentioned in Knuth's official errata. My question is: WTF?
14:38:41 <wob_jonas> I wonder if it's somehow an encoding trouble between LaTeX fonts and plain TeX fonts, but I don't think so.
14:39:22 <ais523> LaTeX encoding is a crazy situatoin anyway
14:39:36 <wob_jonas> yes, but LaTeX shouldn't figure in that at all
14:39:44 <wob_jonas> and even if it does, Knuth is really careful
14:39:49 <wob_jonas> and when he's not, he at least puts out an errata
14:40:08 <wob_jonas> I even wonder if it's some client-side problem at my side or something
14:41:59 <wob_jonas> MIX character code is a really strange encoding by the way. It has exactly 56 characters defined, rather than 63. What happened with Knuth when he made that, when he normally fills up everything with junk to a round number so that other people don't make incompatible extensions?
14:43:40 <wob_jonas> Why are the last 8 characters not there?
14:44:32 <wob_jonas> The charset is indirectly an ebcdic-relative, in the sense that both ebcdic and MIX character code are inspired by the encoding of letters and numbers on the 12-row Hollerith punch cards
14:44:46 <wob_jonas> that's why both ebcdic and MIX character code have holes between I and J
14:45:54 <wob_jonas> so the a card reader or puncher connected to a *decimal* MIX computer can have as simple a logic as possible
14:49:47 <wob_jonas> decode digit, add 30 normally, add 0 if hole in row 12, add 10 if hole in row 11, add 20 if hole in row 0, handle space specially. sadly it gets much uglier if you want punctuation marks too.
14:50:13 <wob_jonas> maybe they use some modified punched card code for punctuation marks.
14:50:35 <wob_jonas> there are lots of variants of that supposedly
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14:52:12 <wob_jonas> I see \oren\ was listing my wisdoms again
14:57:46 <wob_jonas> "<\oren\> RRGH why is there no open-source tax filing software" -- I don't think that's possible economically. The difficult part of tax filing software is that the tax rules and forms change every year. The hardest part of maintaining such a software is to update it quickly every year. And open-source software could perhaps let you file your tax f
14:59:46 <wob_jonas> In Hungary, NAV maintains and releases tax filing software themselves. It's some java thing, but I don't quite understand the system requirements, apparently it requires a future version of 32-bit Java VM and 64-bit firefox with 32-bit directX support for the directX print driver or else you can't print forms, or something.
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15:00:51 <wob_jonas> Also, it's strict, in the sense that it doesn't let you fill forms wrong, but you know that thing Douglas Adams said about things that can't go wrong. When the forms are wrong and you have to fill them wrong deliberately, you're on your own.
15:01:41 <wob_jonas> There are rumors like that there is like one person in the country with a one-letter family name, and he can't file his taxes electronically, because the software absolutely refuses to believe his family name is made of one letter.
15:03:05 <Jafet> does he not have a family, then
15:03:18 <Jafet> or maybe they don't file tax reports
15:03:36 <wob_jonas> It's sort of the same as these web forms where they make you fill out your postal address by choosing a country from their list, then a state from a list of the 50 US states, then a 5-digit zip code, and a street name with only uppercase ascii letters and digits and no punctuation.
15:04:11 <wob_jonas> Jafet: I assume either they're minors with no taxable income yet, or they have got a double family name with both parents' family names combined, or something.
15:04:26 <wob_jonas> or maybe they have done the sensible thing and migrated abroad.
15:05:06 <Jafet> there is probably some canonical php script somewhere that implements that form and everyone just copies it around
15:06:15 <Jafet> if you're lucky, that script knows how to md5 the password for the account you have to create before you're allowed to buy things
15:07:00 <wob_jonas> in case you need such a thing, (a) take postal address as two fields, rest of the address and country, with both of them being free-form text, (b) an unofficial but very useful guide is at http://www.columbia.edu/~fdc/postal/
15:09:05 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> is "fyr" in norwegian hth" -- what? how do they say five then?
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18:17:26 <\oren\> `learn A BOFH is a bastard operator from hell. An example is the == operator in PHP.
18:17:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'bofh': A BOFH is a bastard operator from hell. An example is the == operator in PHP.
18:19:22 <\oren\> see http://php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php for a giant table of the bullshit that == does in PHP
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18:20:58 <\oren\> for eaxmple, in PHP == is not commutative
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18:22:31 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah, I hear it's the one people use to compare hex hashed passwords, and it only works if the hex hashed password starts with a letter, not a decimal digit
18:22:58 <APic> Good old $PHP…
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18:23:46 <\oren\> I mean perl gets all this flack but at least in perl you have separate == and eq operators
18:26:00 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes, but the alarming part is the trend. the php people realized it's bullshit and added a === operator that behaves sanely, and now people usually shouldn't use the == operator except in special cases where you should; whereas in perl, they added a =~ operator that behaves completely insanely stupid and against how perl generally works, th
18:26:00 <wob_jonas> en deprecated it because it's stupid.
18:26:45 <\oren\> =~ is really only used to associate a regex with the thing it is acting on
18:27:26 <wob_jonas> it's so stupid I don't even remember its name
18:27:42 <wob_jonas> I used it once in an obfuscation, just to show how stupid it is
18:27:54 <wob_jonas> and it's not even a good obfuscation
18:28:09 <wob_jonas> it doesn't show out how inconsistently stupid the oeprator is, or how much it's against perl philosophy
18:28:27 <\oren\> I don't think i've ever used it
18:28:33 <wob_jonas> (in fact, all that p5p does these days for several years is against it)
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18:39:17 <wob_jonas> \oren\: wait, it's not commutative? can you give an example?
18:39:37 <wob_jonas> \oren\: you don't just mean it's not associative, right? because that's much easier and much more common
18:40:01 <wob_jonas> (even == in C isn't associative, if you involve two types)
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18:47:21 <\oren\> "php" == TRUE. "php" == 0. TRUE != 0.
18:47:47 <wob_jonas> \oren\: it's less surprising than if it was not commutative
18:48:07 <wob_jonas> now with PHP, you never know, so it wouldn't surprise me too much if it wasn't commutative
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18:48:49 <wob_jonas> and of course, it can be deliberate. ruby has a === operator that is deliberately not commutative.
18:49:10 <shachaf> \oren\: http://i.imgur.com/6BYGcfx.jpg hth
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18:56:26 <\oren\> 0133 != "0133". "0133" == 133
18:57:43 <wob_jonas> `perl -e warn 0133!="0133"," ","0133"==133
18:59:42 <\oren\> `perl -e print "0x10"==16
18:59:52 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print "0x10"==16'
19:00:15 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "0x10"==16'
19:00:18 <wob_jonas> `perl -e warn oct"0x10"," ",hex"0x10"," ",0+"0x10"
19:00:50 <\oren\> wait why doesn't print work
19:01:11 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("0x10"==16)."\n"'
19:01:14 <wob_jonas> but "0x10"==16 results in false, which is the empty string
19:01:36 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("0x10"==16?:"false")."\n"'
19:01:37 <HackEgo> syntax error at -e line 1, near "?:" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
19:01:37 <wob_jonas> so it doesn't print anything (prints the empty string) and then hackego adds "No output." to that
19:01:43 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("0x10"==16?"true":"false")."\n"'
19:02:24 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("0x10"+0?"true":"false")."\n"'
19:02:34 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "0x10"+0."\n"'
19:02:35 <HackEgo> String found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "0."\n"" \ (Missing operator before "\n"?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "0."\n"" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
19:02:43 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("0x10"+0)."\n"'
19:03:00 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("010"+0)."\n"'
19:03:13 <\oren\> ok so perl always converts using decimal
19:03:37 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("1e3"+0)."\n"'
19:03:52 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print ("1.3"+0)."\n"'
19:03:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: if you want to convert using octal or hex, you use the oct function
19:04:11 <\oren\> coreection it always uses %g
19:05:23 <wob_jonas> for one, if it's a perl where IV is 64-bit, then it scans 64-bit signed AND unsigned integers exactly to integers,
19:06:11 <wob_jonas> secondly, it doesn't scan hexadecimal floating points even if the C library scanf does,
19:06:22 <wob_jonas> and it also scans nans differently from libc
19:07:30 <wob_jonas> there are probably more differences that I don't recall
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19:09:06 <\oren\> oh now I remember the other thing from php
19:09:14 <\oren\> "61529519452809720693702583126814" == "61529519452809720000000000000000"
19:09:20 <wob_jonas> also obviously it uses %lg for floating point usually, or rarely %Lg if perl is compiled that way
19:09:32 <\oren\> because it converts both strings to floats
19:10:17 <\oren\> that was the thing. PHP converts strings to floats even when BOTH operands are strings
19:10:45 <wob_jonas> \oren\: always numeric comparison might be better than converting only if it's a string
19:10:47 <wob_jonas> it makes the comparison more associative
19:11:27 <\oren\> I guess that's why php has strcmp()
19:12:11 <\oren\> at which point why not just write c++ and make everything an auto
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19:22:21 <\oren\> hmm maybe what we need is to have ==, eq, and ===
19:23:45 <wob_jonas> no, what you need is to only ever compare things if they're of the same type (or a nullptr_t with any pointer or smart pointer) and when you know what type they are
19:24:08 <wob_jonas> because if you compare things of different types, you get surprising non-associative behavior
19:24:49 <\oren\> wob_jonas: good idea, so "100" == 100 would result in ERROR
19:25:19 <\oren\> just leave it as a nonexistent operator
19:25:53 <wob_jonas> \oren\: the tricky case is that you can have two int64s and a double such that the two integers are unequal but the double is equal to both of them
19:26:12 <wob_jonas> at least if you compare them the way C compares them, not the way perl compares them
19:26:59 <rdococ> Now we're comparing comparison operators.
19:27:03 <\oren\> yeah maybe have a special operator for that
19:28:14 <\oren\> well == doesn't have the same type as eq
19:28:57 <\oren\> one is a bool()(number, number) the other is a bool()(string,string)
19:29:45 <wob_jonas> and that's how it should have behaved in C++ too, but strostroup broke it from the start and now it's too late to fix
19:29:55 <APic> Good old Bjarne.
19:30:13 <wob_jonas> so now comparison operators work differently on builtin types in C and C++
19:30:41 <rdococ> is there any C++ standard with C's comparisons?
19:31:26 <wob_jonas> rdococ: just put in some + prefixes, like +(x==y) to get the C-like behavior
19:32:01 <wob_jonas> except in very ancient pre-ansi C that doesn't have a prefix + operator
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19:32:36 <wob_jonas> you can use the venus prefix 0+ instead if you are concerned with ancient compatibility
19:33:07 <\oren\> wob_jonas: in my font venus has a belly button
19:33:38 <wob_jonas> \oren\: um, the 0+ is actually venus's mirror. it should show the reader inside, not venus.
19:34:56 <APic> My 0 always has a / through it
19:35:11 <APic> (Except once when i tried out Inconsolidata or something like that)
19:38:07 <\oren\> wob_jonas: Really? a mirror?
19:38:48 * APic has a good Card.
19:48:58 <\oren\> APic: which font are you using?
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20:11:37 <APic> \oren\: Terminus.
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20:42:40 <\oren\> I guess I prefer dotted 0
20:44:25 <\oren\> of course, in some fonts even () can be confused for 0
20:45:29 <DHeadshot> Idea: A font where EVERYTHING looks like a 0!
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20:50:39 <\oren\> '"`‘’′ is a problem too
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23:29:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51833&oldid=51807 * Challenger5 * (+73)
23:29:55 <HackEgo> trunc//The trunc and truncf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented.
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23:36:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51834&oldid=51447 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+207)
23:36:47 <HackEgo> 1/3:1235) <Taneb> Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times [...] <Taneb> I was, in fact, not cosplaying \ 654) <zzo38> Even the Spanish Inquisition is in this game. <ais523> zzo38: was it unexpected? <zzo38> Kind of... \ 270) <oklopol> and then there's the slightly annoying one where suddenly, i start roll
23:37:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51835&oldid=51834 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-2)
23:40:01 <HackEgo> 2/3:ing forward and i can't stop <oklopol> like i can be having some great sex dream or whatever and then suddenly "oh god not this again" <oklopol> (i go "not this again" but not necessarily realize it's a dream) \ 632) <elliott> right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. <elliott> if only ev
23:40:17 <boily> helloochaf. I'm not quite used yet to that newfangled technological gimmick.
23:40:23 <HackEgo> 3/3:ery wrong person could be so lucky \ 233) <oklopol> zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that.
23:41:32 <HackEgo> 1/1:sftm//SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail. \ but//But is an hth derivative. \ myndzi//myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. \ york//York used to be known as Amsterdam. \ døsthiswork//no
23:44:06 <boily> seems fungot to me?
23:44:07 <fungot> boily: because you could have a try
23:44:16 <boily> fungot: sounds about right.
23:44:17 <fungot> boily: ( recently i have absolutely no prior experience with either before i tried to do
23:45:36 <wob_jonas> fungot, how many heads do you have?
23:45:36 <fungot> wob_jonas: where is pika? ( f) ( f x
23:46:26 <boily> wellob_jonas. fungot's anatomy is uncountable hth
23:46:27 <fungot> boily: or one of the games, so that anyone with half an ounce of nerdliness in them is the best trivial polymorphism of bf that makes it more realistic.
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00:13:13 <sdhand> well technically morning
00:14:03 <boily> sdhellond. there's a Great Debate at the office about Java 9.
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00:14:32 <wob_jonas> what office? I don't follow who works where
00:15:15 <boily> my job. we were discussing if it's gonna be worth it to upgrade stuff to the next version, breakage, javafx, maven...
00:15:36 <boily> nah, we're not hip enough for that :/
00:15:57 <shachaf> boily: scrap maven, use bazel hth
00:16:07 <wob_jonas> I think we have some Java guys over at the software room
00:16:35 <boily> shachaf: I wish, but I like maven and we use it.
00:16:59 <wob_jonas> here we only have C++ and C# and python and lots more
00:17:27 <wob_jonas> I don't get what they like in C# though
00:17:34 <boily> quite pretty good, I say. a bit inscrutable and verbose at times, but everything is very predictable.
00:18:09 <wob_jonas> what's a maven? is that like a raven?
00:20:12 <boily> C# is the exact same as Java, but more.
00:21:03 <boily> it has True Generic Types Without [EXPLÉTIF] Type Erasure, for once.
00:21:15 <shachaf> wob_jonas: you should probably use bazel for all those languages hth
00:21:23 * boily really hates type erasure
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00:22:10 <sleffy> oooh did someone say Rust? Did someone say Rust?
00:22:49 <wob_jonas> boily: do you mean generics where you can prove the compiler that your code is typesafe?
00:23:03 <wob_jonas> sleffy: yes, I'm interested in rust
00:23:21 <shachaf> boily: You know what's scow? Covariant mutable arrays.
00:23:39 <sleffy> wob_jonas, then why aren't you on MozNet/#rust? D:
00:24:16 <wob_jonas> sleffy: I'm on mozilla/#rust-beginner sometimes
00:24:31 <boily> wob_jonas: yes, and that all information available at compile time is also available at runtime. as far as the JVM knows, there is absolutely no difference between eg. List<String> and List<?> and List, which drives me nuts.
00:24:54 <boily> shachaf: very scow.
00:25:14 <shachaf> Eiffel is arguably even more scow than that.
00:25:23 <shachaf> It has covariant function arguments, doesn't it?
00:25:43 <sleffy> "scow (noun): a wide-beamed sailing dinghy."
00:27:08 <wob_jonas> boily: JVM doesn't matter. what does the java *compiler* know about those types? I mean, you can write crazy type proofs in haskell, even with phantom types, and most of the info disappears by the time the compiler outputs stuff.
00:29:41 <sleffy> boily, curiosity: why do you care what type information is available at runtime?
00:31:26 <boily> wob_jonas: compiling will make a difference between List<String> and List<Integer>, but everything between < and > disappear at runtime. it is very annoying when you write a class with templates, as the actual concrete type disappears at runtime, and you can't do stuff like 'new T();' inside a method declared in 'class Something<T>'.
00:32:14 <shachaf> This seems like a complaint about language semantics that doesn't have much to do with runtime.
00:32:22 <wob_jonas> boily: so C# is different in that?
00:32:38 <boily> yeah, C# retains the whole thing.
00:33:32 <boily> sleffy: you can write code that abstracts over the contents of a structure (List<T>), but not code that abstracts over the structure itself (F<T>). or you may, but it becomes unwieldy, smells bad, and isn't aligned with feng shui.
00:33:58 <sleffy> boily, so you're complaining about a lack of higher-kinded types? I don't understand how that maps to type erasure.
00:36:05 * boily tries to find a hole in sleffy's argument
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01:15:35 <boily> I accept that I effected a bucco-pedal manœuvre there... will have to rethink my argument and position over that.
01:15:47 <HackEgo> inory//Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite.
01:16:17 <sleffy> wob_jonas, https://archive.org/stream/biostor-97775/biostor-97775_djvu.txt
01:16:22 <sleffy> Seems to be a genus of something or other
01:16:40 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈]
01:17:13 <boily> wob_jonas: foot in mouth hth
01:17:23 <HackEgo> 7183:2016-03-10 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/Moron./Someone who does this is an inorite./\' wisdom/inory \ 7182:2016-03-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn inory/Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn\'t. Moron. \ 7181:2016-03-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn inory/Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn\'t
01:18:04 <HackEgo> Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite.
01:21:21 <sleffy> today I realized the language spoken in this channel is esoteric in and of itself
01:22:00 <wob_jonas> sleffy: yeah, communities tend to have injokes and other jargon they use
01:27:43 <shachaf> Can you believe it? hppavilion[1] made a scow and rude wisdom entry, and oerjan made it good.
01:27:51 <shachaf> Except only the last sentence of it is good.
01:28:24 <wob_jonas> sleffy: if it gets too obscure, feel free to ask, and then we'll laugh at you
01:28:53 <sleffy> wob_jonas, of course. I would hate to break tradition
01:29:02 <shachaf> I wouldn't laugh at you for asking.
01:29:06 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
01:29:24 <shachaf> "the scow of X" means something like "the worst speciment of X"
01:29:32 <shachaf> But it can also be used as an adjective and so on.
01:29:37 <shachaf> The etymology is "garbage scow".
01:41:46 <alercah> guys the solution is to just use go
01:41:50 <alercah> which has no generics of any kind
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01:41:55 <alercah> they're the most requested feature!
01:43:05 <wob_jonas> alercah: it has all-runtime dynamic typing though
01:52:04 <boily> genericity! genericity! genericity!
02:01:58 <wob_jonas> alercah: it has these typeclass thingies, called interfaces, resolved at runtime, like java stuff
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02:10:43 <sleffy> oh no. not the dynamic typing
02:11:04 <\oren\> all of human evolution has led to this greatness
02:11:06 <\oren\> http://www.pcgamer.com/eve-onlines-latest-war-is-being-fought-over-anime/
02:13:44 <\oren\> also, I am attempting to make a special preprocessor for C that add features, like watfor did for fortran
02:18:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Armok628 * New user account
02:18:37 <boily> he\\oren\. that is glorious.
02:18:48 <sleffy> I am trying to moosh LISP and PROLOG into one VM.
02:18:54 <sleffy> This is not going well.
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02:48:17 <shachaf> Cale: Can eigenvectors be generalized to other categories?
02:48:22 <shachaf> I feel like we may have talked about this before.
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03:34:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51836&oldid=51831 * Armok628 * (+286) /* Introductions */
03:34:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51837&oldid=51829 * Armok628 * (+564) Added simple Common Lisp implementation
03:51:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Silberjoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51838&oldid=50828 * Quintopia * (-2) /* Syntax */ proper bullets
03:52:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:CatIsFluffy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51839 * Hppavilion1 * (+120) /* Question */ new section
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06:03:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:JHM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51840 * JHM * (+17) Created page with "Hi, I'm JungHwan."
06:05:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51841&oldid=50876 * JHM * (+287) /* x = 0 */
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08:14:00 <hppavilion[1]> "He once put a satellite in geosynchronous orbit... around Mars" (the most interesting man in the world)
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09:12:58 <Jafet> impressive, seeing as there are no geosynchronous orbits around mars
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09:20:18 <Jafet> s/impressive/that's funny/
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11:39:54 <HackEgo> postorder//Postorder is the same as Polish notation, since Post was Polish. Not to be confused with reverse Polish notation, which is postfix.
11:44:39 <boily> Polish is a hard language to learn for non-native speakers, and Post had trouble communicating with his peers.
11:49:38 <Jafet> perhaps post should have used correspondence, then
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12:22:46 <HackEgo> tanec//Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous!
12:22:59 <HackEgo> people who taneb is not//elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
12:23:23 <HackEgo> zomgmodules//ZOMGMODULES is both a small blonde veterinarian and just modules over the ring of ZOMGs.
12:23:29 <HackEgo> admn//admn is the curse of people with cdop.
12:23:37 <HackEgo> wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf
12:24:14 <HackEgo> CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order.
12:24:18 <boily> Jafellot, he\\oren\.
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13:23:42 <wob_jonas> Do we have a fudged dice command here? You know, one that lets you roll a dice or draw lots from a set of choices, and normally appears to be fair, with a clear source code, but there's a separate command you can give in private message in advance to make it give the choice you want and then clean up the source code afterwards?
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16:18:09 <HackEgo> I think you mean "@tell " instead?
16:18:13 <lambdabot> tell <nick> <message>. When <nick> shows activity, tell them <message>.
16:18:26 <rdococ> @tell LKoen I think you don't even learn to think anymore.
16:18:45 <rdococ> @tell LKoen It was taken from the curriculum and replaced with boring stuff.
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18:10:14 <int-e> shachaf: this is all your fault
18:10:39 <int-e> (I bought another humble bundle :-P)
18:13:50 <int-e> but maybe 11 sausages are enough for a start
18:15:00 <shachaf> Is that past the first area?
18:15:06 <shachaf> I guess it probably isn't.
18:18:25 <int-e> no, everything I've done still fits on the screen http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png
18:19:28 <int-e> it's enough to get a taste of the game.
18:22:16 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png <-- oh nein, ich habe schon wieder ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. (aber nicht zum Vollpreis, gibt grad ein humble bundle)
18:23:35 <int-e> it was intended for a much smaller audience
18:23:46 <int-e> but I guess it's fine here as well :P
18:24:19 <int-e> being a hipster game is the only thing that can explain its price :-P
18:24:35 <shachaf> Why should the price be low?
18:25:30 <int-e> why indeed if people still buy it
18:26:03 <shachaf> They wait until it's part of ein humble bundle.
18:33:06 <int-e> fwiw, I did not, actually, expect to find that game in a humble bundle any time soon.
18:36:48 <shachaf> You were waiting until the price goes down, and willing to wait indefinitely.
18:43:04 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans.
18:44:55 <shachaf> `le/rn_append int-e/Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
18:45:08 <shachaf> `le//rn_append int-e//Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
18:45:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'int-e': int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
18:45:24 <olsner> sv:Hen har köpt ett hipsterspel.
18:45:46 <olsner> yeah, it's better in the original German
18:46:01 <olsner> no idea why the wisdom is in swedish
18:46:37 <shachaf> olsner: I suspect it's because of the word "inte" in the first sentence.
18:47:01 <shachaf> Maybe he wants a limerick written about him.
18:47:06 <shachaf> You have to be Swedish for that.
18:47:44 <olsner> in that case, you wouldn't want the inte since that makes it say he's not Swedish
18:48:15 <shachaf> Are you sure it doesn't say he's into Swedes?
18:49:27 <shachaf> Please write a Swedish-language limerick about int-e.
18:50:33 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
18:50:47 <HackEgo> 1311) <Jafet> an #esoteric-dwelling swede / was mistaken for edible feed / “with you,” said a sicko / “our lanttulaatikko / would be very tasty indeed!”
18:55:38 <olsner> oh, it involves swedes and rutabagas too, punny
18:58:48 <shachaf> olsner: Are you playing SSR as well?
18:59:36 <olsner> I might have played some small-screen rendering, but presto browsers are rare these days
18:59:53 <shachaf> Or Selective Serotonin Reuptake?
19:00:55 <olsner> hmm, isn't it rather the inhibition that's selective, than the serotonin reuptake?
19:01:14 <shachaf> Or is it the serotonin that's selective?
19:03:50 <shachaf> Maybe you can just stop it, rdococ.
19:04:25 <rdococ> All I did was say "hi" and "yæy", and it was in the span of 20 minutes. Give me a break, shachaf.
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19:38:52 <Phantom_Hoover> can someone check for me when a particular card was first released?
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19:48:00 <shachaf> Doesn't Gatherer tell you that?
20:04:23 <Cale> shachaf: Can scalar multiplication be generalised to other categories?
20:07:18 <FireFly> int-e: was für ein Spiel ist das?
20:07:50 <shachaf> Cale: I don't know! Can it?
20:08:07 <shachaf> Is it a natural transformation of some sort?
20:08:14 <int-e> FireFly: ask shachaf :P
20:09:08 <shachaf> I suspect there are several people here who could check that for you.
20:10:09 <FireFly> shachaf: was für ein Spiel ist SSR?
20:11:27 <shachaf> FireFly: Selektive Serotonin-Wiederaufnahme hth
20:11:52 <Cale> shachaf: Well, it definitely makes sense to talk about eigenvalues/eigenvectors for module homomorphisms
20:12:13 <Cale> shachaf: More generally, you can probably do something relevant in any Abelian category.
20:12:17 <shachaf> Eigenvectors are a generalization of fixed points.
20:12:38 <shachaf> In that they aren't exactly a fixed point but they are up to scalar multiplication.
20:12:50 <shachaf> Is there another notion of "fixed point up to [simple operation]"?
20:16:26 <shachaf> FireFly: SSR ist Stephen's Sausage Roll hdhg
20:16:50 <shachaf> ich nicht sprachen deutsche
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20:19:51 <\oren\> SSR? Soviet socialist republic
20:21:36 <\oren\> USSR is therefore ambiguous between ukrainian and union
20:21:58 <\oren\> but in russian it is totally biguous
20:23:44 <\oren\> I bet it's still biguous
20:26:18 <\oren\> the main difference I'm aware of between russian and ukrainian is that Г is pronounced more like H and not like G
20:26:37 <\oren\> hence russian Lugansk is ukrainian Luhansk
20:27:17 <\oren\> I wonder how the georgian ssr is affected
20:28:20 <\oren\> Грузинская Советская Социалистическая Республика
20:29:11 <\oren\> however საქართველოს საბჭოთა სოციალისტური რესპუბლიკა is entirely different
20:31:22 <\oren\> Грузинська Радянська Соціалістична Республіка
20:33:07 <\oren\> sotsialistichna instead of sotsialisticheskaya
20:34:05 <\oren\> and radyanska instead of sovetskaya
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20:40:40 <\oren\> so I guess in ukrainian it's the SRSR,
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20:48:20 <wob_jonas> http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3473 -- unlike Arcadia, Faye is probably telling the truth here
20:51:34 <wob_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: yes, I play M:tG (sort of). please ask your question.
20:52:04 <shachaf> I think there are many people here to who like Magic: The Gathering but don't play.
20:52:50 <shachaf> Taneb neither likes nor plays, but soon he'll be visiting California and I'll give him a bunch of free cards.
20:54:05 <int-e> well the M:tG Turing machine is quite a strong selling point.
20:54:25 <wob_jonas> doesn't like M:tG but you're giving him free cards? why?
20:54:28 <shachaf> Turing completeness, as I've said recently, is scow.
20:54:43 <int-e> But I would like to suggest that the rules of a game are unnecessarily complex for achieving TC-ness. :P
20:54:53 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Well, what else can I do with them? I don't have a wood stove.
20:55:09 <int-e> Clearly we need an M:tG tarpit.
20:55:26 <shachaf> int-e: One of the rules of the game says that if you get into an infinite loop, it ends in a draw.
20:55:28 <wob_jonas> shachaf: give them to someone who likes M:tG?
20:55:36 <shachaf> So the game is actually undecidable.
20:55:57 <shachaf> I'm sure Taneb would start to like it if he had cards.
20:56:09 <shachaf> Anyway he's not really coming to California as far as I know. So there's no hurry.
20:56:14 <int-e> shachaf: so that gives anyone an excuse for not playing it rationally
20:56:33 <Taneb> Travelling a third of the way across the world does cost a fair bit of money, after all
20:56:42 <Taneb> You should have given me them last time I was in California
20:56:46 <int-e> (my thoughts were meandering along the shores of rationality and undecidability last night, somehow)
20:57:03 <wob_jonas> shachaf: send them to him by post? that's cheaper than having him travel to California in person.
20:57:03 <shachaf> That was a long time ago, I think.
20:57:18 <int-e> and I mean "rationality" in the game theoretic "rational agent" sense.
20:57:22 <shachaf> Taneb: Do you want me to send you some Magic: the Gathering cards by post?
20:57:42 <Taneb> I don't really care, if I'm being honest
20:58:07 <shachaf> I wonder how much my cards are worth.
20:58:24 <shachaf> I had some cards that went for ~$50 back when they were in Standard, but they rotated out long ago.
21:00:27 <wob_jonas> I don't play M:tG rationally, but the infinite loop rule doesn't have much to do that.
21:01:32 <int-e> uh, this is old news... wtf?! http://www.geek.com/games/black-lotus-magic-the-gatherings-most-famous-card-sells-for-27302-1577939/
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21:06:00 <int-e> I thought I knew that this now-useless card was highly sought after. Well, I had no idea.
21:06:02 <wob_jonas> int-e: well it's an Alpha Black Lotus. It's not something you need even if you're playing Vintage, because an Unlimited Black Lotus, of which there are much more out there, works just as well. It's a collectible item.
21:06:30 <wob_jonas> int-e: how is that now-useless? it's the most useful card ever. it goes to basically every Vintage deck, no matter how it tries to win.
21:06:59 <wob_jonas> Black Lotus was always the most expensive M:tG card.
21:07:48 <int-e> http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9764 is funnier
21:08:06 <int-e> So is vintage played much...
21:08:12 * int-e shrugs, not really caring.
21:08:20 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, it's not played much, because it's a very expensive format
21:08:31 <wob_jonas> you don't have many people who can buy the necessary cards for it
21:08:38 <wob_jonas> you need a Black Lotus and lots of other expensive cards
21:09:27 <wob_jonas> also it's sort of unfun, because the power level is basically unchecked
21:09:41 <wob_jonas> so it will always be played with only very broken decks
21:09:46 <shachaf> wob_jonas: useful? it only gives you three karma and then you have to sacrifice it!
21:10:19 <shachaf> s/then // , to be more accurate
21:10:31 <wob_jonas> it's the format where no cards are banned for power level if they were originally released by Wizards and intended to be tournament legal (a few cards are banned for reasons other than power)
21:10:49 <int-e> http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/14031/20141015/this-is-the-reason-the-black-lotus-is-worth-30000-and-why-that-magic-the-gathering-youtuber-is-right-to-be-excited.htm explains a 4 card combo to win on the first term
21:11:08 <int-e> (not likely to materialise but having 4 mana on the first turn is a lot)
21:11:15 <shachaf> Black Lotus is so good that even Lion's Eye Diamond is a good card.
21:11:41 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it gives you three mana for free, even in turn 1. that gives so much speed advantage it would decide many games even in a slower environment, and definitely does in Vintage which is a very fast environment, since you can just put the most broken cards in your deck, ones that don't need many mana.
21:12:07 <shachaf> wob_jonas: nonsense, it's not free, you have to sacrifice your best card for it
21:12:53 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it's not a good argument that the card is not good because you have to use the best card of your deck to use it
21:13:27 <wob_jonas> it's the best card of your deck, it'd be circular to argue that it's bad because it's your best card
21:13:45 <shachaf> sacrificing your best permanent is obviously a bad idea
21:13:51 <wob_jonas> that's like saying that the Moon is better than the Sun because the Moon gives light in the night when it's dark so you need the light much more
21:13:52 <shachaf> it's not called a permanent for nothing
21:14:10 <shachaf> The moon is much more useful.
21:15:01 <int-e> Wait, any time you play an instant... I can have a card-searching ability on the stack and then get three (mono-)colored mana?
21:15:16 <int-e> but I can't play it as a mana ability
21:15:32 * int-e is looking at the Lion's Eye Diamond
21:15:59 <int-e> and it says "Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant."
21:16:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: oh, that's because without that clause, it would be a mana ability
21:16:24 <wob_jonas> and you can activate mana abilities in times other than when you get priority,
21:16:44 <wob_jonas> specifically when you have to pay the cost for a spell, or when an effect asks you to pay an optional cost
21:16:59 <wob_jonas> yes, it's a tough restriction in that context
21:17:03 <wob_jonas> would be way overpowered without that
21:17:06 <shachaf> @google "lion's eye diamond" super great combo that wins the game real good
21:17:07 <lambdabot> http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/181840-led-griselbrand-a-more-resilient-turn-1-combo-deck
21:17:07 <lambdabot> Title: LED Griselbrand - A more resilient turn 1 combo deck - Developing (Legacy) - ...
21:17:08 <wob_jonas> but it's still overpowered this way
21:17:26 <wob_jonas> basically, you can still spend that mana on activated abilities of permanents, and lots of other things
21:17:53 <wob_jonas> but even with such a serious restriction, three mana NOW for a card is too good
21:22:18 <\oren\> there is aparently a gogle docs worm now
21:22:39 <\oren\> congrats google, you're now as secure as microsoft outlook
21:22:59 <int-e> wob_jonas: flashback turns the discarded cards into a benefit. I had a small chance of seeing this.
21:23:20 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that's one way of using it too
21:23:49 <wob_jonas> (depending on the format and environment)
21:25:40 <DHeadshot> \oren\: Does this mean my grandpa's got the most secure email system, because he still uses Pegasus and no virus-writer can be bothered with it?
21:26:56 <DHeadshot> I use the HTC thing on my 'phone, plus the gmail app it has which was last updated in 2011...
21:27:10 <wob_jonas> \oren\: does alpine try to open an attachment with a preferred viewer application chosen from a large table of file types if you press a key on an attachment, without asking your permission to use a particular application?
21:27:50 <wob_jonas> because that's an easy way an email program or browser can be insecure, if it lets you open files with a hundred other applications that are supposedly secure but inevitably some of them will be insecure
21:36:35 <\oren\> you have to press a key for confimation after it tells you what program it's going to use
21:37:15 <\oren\> of course, I have it set to just save attachment
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22:20:04 <Phantom_Hoover> wob_jonas, well the question was when hanweir, the writhing township came out, though the question's not so important now
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22:21:32 <wob_jonas> Phantom: that one is a meld card, so it definitely came out for the Eldritch Moon set, which was released in 2016-07.
22:21:56 <wob_jonas> meld cards didn't exist before that set, so it's not a reprint of anything
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22:30:22 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Hanweir, the Writhing
22:30:25 <HackEgo> Hanweir, the Writhing Township \ Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi Ooze \ 7/4 \ Trample, haste \ Whenever Hanweir, the Writhing Township attacks, create two 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror creature tokens that are tapped and attacking. \ [Melds from Hanweir Battlements and Hanweir Garrison.] \ EMN-R
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23:03:22 <ais523> does anyone know of a programming language with an NP-complete lexer?
23:03:48 <ais523> I'm working on one which I think might be able to solve /both/ 3SAT and subset sum, in different parts of the lexer
23:05:13 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't think I know such a language.
23:05:31 <ais523> actually, PPCG has really helped my esolanging
23:05:35 <ais523> I used to view parsers as unimportant
23:05:41 <ais523> but they're such an untapped vein for esoprogramming
23:05:46 <wob_jonas> ais523: I think it would be rather unlikely to get exactly NP-complete. I mean, if you make a lexer that doesn't try to be efficient, then what stops it at NP?
23:06:01 <ais523> the ability to lex the program by brute force
23:07:08 <ais523> the language itself may possibly be uncomputable, not sure on that yet
23:07:34 <ais523> but it's also meant to be practically useful
23:07:50 <ais523> (in the sense that you can write a language with a halting detector command, and have the implementation fail or infinite loop in some cases)
23:08:03 <ais523> (and yet the halting detector is still useful in the cases where it works)
23:09:03 <wob_jonas> halting detector => sure, M:tG does that
23:09:22 <ais523> it's not like halting detectors don't exist
23:09:25 <ais523> they just fail in some cases
23:10:19 <wob_jonas> well yes, you can probably make a language with an NP-complete lexer that doesn't seem too strained
23:10:48 <wob_jonas> especially if the input isn't text
23:11:55 <wob_jonas> like, the input is two strings, and is lexed to a sequence of tokens where each token corresponds to a pair of infixes from those two strings, but with different lengths
23:12:33 <wob_jonas> the infixes are ordered in both strings but you can't easily match the two strings to one another because they're variable length
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23:13:17 <wob_jonas> eg. you have a sound file and a transcript (or a kanji string and a kana string), both somewhat ambiguous separately and parsed together.
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23:13:48 <wob_jonas> and then you can make it NP-complete by allowing a large enough Post correspondence problem for it
23:13:57 <ais523> I'm reminded of Post correspondence, which is TC, but that'd be the task of finding a sound file and transcript that correpsonded to each other but were the same file
23:14:22 <ais523> that seems hard because the sound file would be so much larger
23:14:26 <ais523> and yet they have to be the same size
23:14:33 <wob_jonas> and it's realistic because in practical cases it may be difficult to pair them, but only for practical implementation reasons, not for P vs NP reasons
23:14:50 <wob_jonas> ais523: what? they don't have to be the same size
23:15:18 <Jafet> clearly you need someone who talks really fast
23:15:53 <ais523> wob_jonas: in post correspondence, aren't you splitting up the same string two different ways?
23:15:57 <Jafet> what about languages without a well-defined lexing phase?
23:16:12 <ais523> anyway, your example can solve subset sum without these silly requirements, either
23:16:18 <ais523> just have tokens consisting of varying lengths of silence
23:16:28 <wob_jonas> ais523: tokens would be like when you hear 'lead' in the sound file and see "lead" in the text, or 'led' in the sound file and "lead" in the text, or 'led' in the sound file and "led" in the text, or 'worshire' in the sound file and "worchestershire" in the text, or 'doubleyou' in the sound file and "w" in the text
23:16:42 <ais523> Jafet: I guess those would tend to be self-modifying languages
23:16:46 <wob_jonas> ais523: same string two different ways? no
23:16:50 <Jafet> I mean, C++ is one
23:16:56 <wob_jonas> um, let me get an exact definition from my shelf
23:17:27 <ais523> Jafet: with respect to the >> token?
23:17:43 <ais523> INTERCAL's another example where the lexing depends on the parsing
23:17:47 <ais523> at least in C-INTERCAL
23:18:21 <Jafet> I don't think >> itself is NP-hard, but normal identifier disambiguation might be
23:18:51 <ais523> Jafet: oh, I thought you were talking about lexing not being a defined phase
23:18:53 <Jafet> well, that's normally considered not part of lexing
23:18:58 <wob_jonas> ais523: in the problem I'm thinking of, which may not be PCP, the output is a token string, the problem has for each possible token from the token alphabet has a single corresponding variable length upper string and lower string, and has an upper string and a lower string,
23:19:06 <ais523> as far as I know, C++'s uncomputable parse is a parsing issue, not a lexing issue
23:19:16 <wob_jonas> and the output is correct if when you replace the output with upper or lower strings resp, you get the upper and lower string from the input respectively.
23:19:39 <wob_jonas> so each token (word) has a pronunciation and a spelling, and the input has a catenated pronunciation string and a catenated spelling string that you have to splity
23:20:03 <ais523> PCP is about producing one string using two different sets of words, in such a way that you always choose the corresponding words from each set
23:20:22 <ais523> PCP's also TC rather than being NP-complete
23:20:32 <ais523> so I assume you're thinking of something different in a different complexity class
23:20:44 <HackEgo> PCP refers to probably cyclidine proofs. It is precipitously illogical in many places, but research has shown that PCP is, surprisingly, No Problem.
23:20:46 <wob_jonas> let me see. Post correspondence problem is page 226 in Rónyai–Ivanyos–Szabó. (reads)
23:21:05 <Jafet> `grwp correspondence
23:21:41 <wob_jonas> ais523: you're right. what I was thinking of isn't Post's correspondence problem
23:22:01 <wob_jonas> and the one I was thinking of isn't even NP-hard. it's actually polynomially solvable.
23:22:04 <HackEgo> interpreter:An interpreter (Latin "inter-", Old French "prestre") is unofficial correspondence between ordained members of the Church.
23:22:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thwackego: not found
23:22:32 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pcr: not found
23:22:37 <wob_jonas> how to make an NP-complete one then?
23:23:33 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem says "Not to be confused with the other Post's problem on the existence of incomparable r.e. Turing degrees."
23:23:44 <shachaf> But it's the same Post! Shouldn't it say "Post's other problem"?
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23:25:00 <ais523> wob_jonas: well, hmm; suppose you have a language where there's no whitespace between tokens
23:25:09 <ais523> and variable names can be declared, becoming tokens
23:25:38 <ais523> and say you have a curried function call syntax, so a bunch of variable names in a row is entirely reasonable
23:25:55 <ais523> someone could define a bunch of variables made entirely out of a single letter
23:26:03 <ais523> and now parsing a long row of that letter is the subset sum problem
23:26:38 <ais523> or, well, you can use the same variable twice, not sure if that makes a difference (my guess is no)
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23:27:28 <Jafet> uh subset sum isn't NP-complete in unary
23:27:49 <wob_jonas> (irrelevant: for making multiple variable names in a row valid, curried function call syntax isn't the only good reason: you can have implicit commas like lisp/scheme, or implicit subscript like in metafont)
23:27:57 <ais523> Jafet: subset sum is base-independent
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23:29:06 <ais523> err, incoming netsplit?
23:29:06 <wob_jonas> ais523: no, Jafet has a valid point there. it's not NP-complete to break your sequence of letter x to given tokens made of given numbers of letter x, because you write the sum in unary then
23:29:23 <ais523> oh, I see, the problem here is about defining n
23:29:30 <ais523> rather than about the actual difficulty of the problem
23:29:51 <ais523> you're in unary, thus it takes 2**n characters to write the problem down
23:30:02 <ais523> and that gives you the exponential time you need to solve it
23:30:30 <wob_jonas> ais523: the time to solve is only quadratic in the length of the problem, if you write the problem down in unary
23:30:57 <ais523> wob_jonas: right, I'm saying that "the length of the problem" is artifically increased by writing the numbers in unary
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23:31:22 <ais523> which means that the complexity class is "lower" because n is exponentially larger
23:31:34 <fizzie> Unfortunately, there's no way to remove underscores from zemhill. :/
23:31:45 <wob_jonas> yes, so we're back at the original question. how to make a natural-sounding language where lexing is NP-complete.
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23:32:00 <ais523> fizzie: make it so that when you write a joustbot, the . commands get echoed to IRC?
23:32:48 <ais523> execution order, I guess? I wasn't being serious though
23:33:25 <wob_jonas> the written characters depend on what the other player is (and on polarty)
23:33:44 <wob_jonas> but yes, writing all the . commands would be excessive given how bfjoust works
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23:46:23 <wob_jonas> ais523: what if you can write tokens in any order, the lexer has to find the order of the tokens, and it has to find a Hamilton path in a general digraph, because the tokens somehow constrain which token can follow which other token, but in a general enough way that you can encode basically any digraph.
23:47:15 <ais523> that seems difficult to pull off
23:47:49 <wob_jonas> eg. the input is a set of poem lines, each on one punch card, dropped on the floor, each line of the poem must share a word with the previous line, and the lexer has to reconstruct the poem
23:47:54 <ais523> something like "two adjacent tokens must have at least one character in common" would possibly work? I think you can encode arbitrary graphs (not digraphs) like that
23:48:08 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, that works, at least if you have enough characters
23:48:49 <wob_jonas> hard to tell if it counts as a "lexer" then
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23:49:37 <wob_jonas> but each statement sharing a word with the previous one isn't such an unnatural requirement for programming, since that word can often be a variable used as input for one and output for the other
23:50:41 <ais523> yes, that's the obvious implication
23:50:45 <ais523> but what do the other words do?
23:52:24 <ais523> and why don't they connect together/
23:52:48 <Jafet> this relates to an old idea I had for a haskell extension, where you could write anything you wanted without brackets as long as there was exactly one well-typed combination
23:53:18 <ais523> wob_jonas: the common words in non-adjacent commands
23:53:27 <Jafet> of course, a lexer would use syntactic rather than type constraints
23:53:33 <ais523> did you ever implement it, or was it just an idea?
23:53:59 <shachaf> Jafet: Hmm, this means that adding a new instance can make a program invalid.
23:54:01 <Jafet> I don't think implementing it is trivial, even in haskell2010
23:54:32 <shachaf> Even in Haskell 2010 you can't infer all types.
23:54:39 <Jafet> anyway, this is the kind of thing you invent when you get tired of having to align all your code
23:54:46 <ais523> <shachaf> Jafet: Hmm, this means that adding a new instance can make a program invalid. ← there are plenty of languages where that's true
23:55:02 <shachaf> ais523: But Haskell goes to a lot of trouble to make it not true.
23:55:11 <wob_jonas> I do have vague plans for a syntax that lets you write most (not all) combinations of function calls without parenthesis or other punctuation, but that one is different, it is easy in a computational sense to parse, there's no ambiguity, not even a local one that's resolved later.
23:55:39 <wob_jonas> basically a generalization of the postscript/forth/logo syntax where the parser knows how many argument each function has
23:55:52 <wob_jonas> um, how's that called, of RPN syntax
23:56:31 <ais523> RPN is a bit ambiguous, it can either refer to postfix notation or to concatenative stack based languages
23:56:37 <shachaf> postfix and prefix would be good vocabulary to use about bug fixes.
23:56:42 <ais523> (the latter aren't strictly postfix because you can screw with the stack)
23:56:59 <ais523> I don't think you can make a prefix stack language, but maybe you can?
23:57:10 <ais523> like, the operands would have to pop operators from the stack rather than the other way round
23:57:12 <Jafet> so I wonder if a lexer is already NP-complete if keywords can overlap each other (to a greater extent than, say, > and >> tokens overlap in C)
23:57:33 <wob_jonas> ais523: well, the interpreter can just read the tokens from right to left
23:57:46 <ais523> yes, but I mean, in a way that stack manipulation is reasonable
23:57:56 <ais523> + : 2 3 4, where : is duplicate, should result in 9
23:58:06 <ais523> but what does + 2 : 3 4 do?
23:58:58 <ais523> let's see; clearly + 2 produces an "add 2" value
23:59:09 <Jafet> wob_jonas: a number of internal formats (for things like video game scenarios) use lists of comma-separated tokens, which are parsed this way
23:59:16 <ais523> and giving it another argument pops two operators from the stack (the add 2 and the operator below) and gives 2 + the argument to the operator below
23:59:45 <ais523> so + : 2 3 4 → + + 2 3 4 → + +2 3 4 → +5 4 → (give 9 to the operator below)
23:59:50 <Jafet> naturally, some of those formats use only decimal numbers as tokens, which makes the code impossible to read
00:00:08 <ais523> so + 2 : 3 4 → +2 : 3 4 → +2 +2 3 4 → (give 7 and then 4 to the operator below)
00:00:10 <Jafet> because you don't know which numbers correspond to functions or arguments
00:00:30 <ais523> that seems to be distinctly different from the stack generalisation of postfix
00:00:44 <ais523> + 2 : 3 is equivalent to 7
00:00:51 <ais523> and that does seem to make some amount of logic when you think about it
00:02:17 <ais523> in postfix notation, the operands are all nilary, the operators therefore have to have higher arity (some can be unary but at least one must be binary)
00:02:42 <ais523> in prefix notation, with nilary operators, the operands therefore become polyary, consuming a number of operators based on how many operands those operators are missing
00:03:02 <wob_jonas> has anyone tried to write artistic obfuscated code in terminfo definition, which is a non-eso language, especially the part with the percent escapes stack language that terminfo uses to turn a command and list of arguments to a term-specific output string?
00:03:17 <wob_jonas> I'm just reminded to this because it's a stack-based language
00:03:29 <wob_jonas> it's a simple general purpose language with a stack too
00:03:44 <wob_jonas> definitely stack-based because many commands take arguments from the stack
00:03:58 <wob_jonas> in the sense of postscript or forth
00:06:48 <wob_jonas> ais523: isn't that sort an APL-like syntax, where tokens can denote values, functions, or operators (which are high-precedence functions), functions know how many arguments they take and those arguments are values and written after the function,
00:07:17 <wob_jonas> but operators also know how many arguments they take and those arguments are values or functions and you write those arguments before the operator,
00:07:29 <wob_jonas> and you need brackets only if an operator takes an argument that is a function call?
00:07:36 <ais523> I'm not sure; I thought APL was more rigid parsing-wise, though
00:08:01 <wob_jonas> because that's a pretty reasonable syntax (actual APL syntax is more complicated, because it has both functions that take arguments on left and right side, and operators that take arguments on left and right side, but ignore that part now)
00:08:16 <wob_jonas> perhaps forget the APL part for a moment, and look at only the description I said
00:09:27 <wob_jonas> this is sort of the general syntax I want, only I want many levels of precedence, not only three
00:10:33 <ais523> ^ul (x)(a(:S:)~*^:^):^
00:10:34 <fungot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output!
00:11:45 <ais523> ^ul (x)(a(::::)~*^:^):^
00:11:50 <ais523> ^ul (x)(a(::::::::)~*^:^):^
00:11:54 <ais523> ^ul (x)(a(::::::::::::)~*^:^):^
00:12:07 <ais523> wob_jonas: the point here is that you can write an Underload program that leaks stack
00:12:21 <ais523> which is something that's nonsensical in an APL-alike
00:12:29 <ais523> the reason is that you can manpulate the stack directly
00:14:05 <wob_jonas> J has rules so that even though you can't determine the parse tree of an expression in advance, in every reduction step you either get an error or the number of symbols on the stack decreases, so you can't grow the stack up
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00:17:12 <wob_jonas> ais523: there's the C preprocessor which lets you get more tokens from fewer tokens and blow up an expression that way
00:17:37 <wob_jonas> people do crazy token string manipulation tricks with it
00:17:47 <ais523> the C preprocessor has no way to write a loop other than self-inclusion, though
00:18:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: not an infinite loop maybe, but it lets you write very long non-infinite loops easily
00:18:34 <wob_jonas> well, "easily" in an eso sense at least
00:19:02 <wob_jonas> you know those preprocessor manipulation things in the boost preprocessor library and the P99 library, right?
00:20:00 <wob_jonas> and macros can expand to commas or unbalanced parenthesis, which makes the whole thing appear similar to stack manipulation in those stack manip languages where you can't determine the parse tree without running the program
00:21:59 <wob_jonas> if you don't know those preprocessor tricks, you should look at them, because it's interesting in an eso sense: while the preprocessor isn't eso intent, it is sort of a tarpit, where it can do much more than it was designed to do
00:22:24 <wob_jonas> but it's restricted, so you need crazy tricks to do useful things, and there are a lot of things you want to do that you can't for syntax reasons
00:22:25 <ais523> I have the feeling that tex was intentionally TC
00:22:29 <wob_jonas> so you need to choose encodings wisely
00:22:45 <wob_jonas> ais523: sure, TeX is intentionally TC, but the details of how you program it is tricky
00:22:57 <wob_jonas> as in, TC is easy if you choose how you represent your data
00:23:18 <wob_jonas> but you don't want to do everything on a numeric array, because that's slow and inconvenient to input
00:23:36 <wob_jonas> so writing complicated programs gets interesting (in the obfu sense) in TeX
00:26:54 <wob_jonas> and TeX is a much more closed language than say C++ or rust, in the sense that when some convenient feature can't be reasonably implemented in TeX but could be implemented by changing the TeX engine itself, people very rarely dare to change it.
00:27:29 <wob_jonas> there are radical TeX derivatives like luaTeX, but they don't spread as much as modern versions of C++
00:27:32 <fizzie> This is an old thing, and sort of unrelated to the current discussion, but if you never happened to come across it: https://tgceec.tumblr.com/
00:28:08 <ais523> I haven't seen it (although I've seen an equivalent contest on PPCG)
00:28:09 <fizzie> It was probably discussed on #esoteric, at that.
00:28:49 <ais523> did they ever post the 2015 results?
00:29:15 <fizzie> I think not, just the "results thus far" post.
00:29:19 <wob_jonas> the extreme amount of error messages they get is amazing, but the general idea of error message blow up is familiar to anyone who tries to use MSVC or older versions of gcc,
00:29:25 <wob_jonas> and sometimes you even see it in modern gcc
00:29:45 <wob_jonas> I even have a bug report about a particular case when gcc gives some stupid meaningless shit for some program error
00:30:08 <fizzie> I've been dabbling with C++ for fun lately, and it still seems to be quite easy to get a few hundred lines of errors even for simple things.
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00:30:35 <wob_jonas> fizzie: oh sure, the challenge is to do that without templates
00:31:14 <wob_jonas> and without using the fact that if you include a few headers, you get a thousand overloads for operator<< or similar, so you get a long list of suggested overloads for a function overload choice failure
00:31:14 <fizzie> I think what I mostly got (for not trying) was long lists of funcion overload candidates when what I tried to call didn't quite match anything.
00:32:16 <wob_jonas> other ways to get long error scrolls is to make one typo early in the file and then the compiler misunderstands the whole thing. MSVC is specifically very bad at this, modern compilers are getting better but even they can't ever be perfect at that,
00:32:53 <wob_jonas> because they'd have to guess the craziest typos you can make, like when a word you use a hundred times should be a typename but is declared as a variable instead
00:33:04 <wob_jonas> or when you leave a left brace open
00:34:30 <wob_jonas> this was my gcc bug report (resolved, though not perfectly to my satisfaction): https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=58363
00:34:47 <wob_jonas> gcc prints 13 lines of errors and none of them tells the single real error in the program, which is a missing parenthesis pair
00:35:01 <wob_jonas> even though it should be able to tell that that's the error from purely the syntax
00:36:00 <wob_jonas> was unnoticed or low priority because it's a case that almost never comes up in non-obfu programs
00:37:19 <wob_jonas> the minimal test case is complicated and unlikely in real code
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00:40:16 <wob_jonas> after they fixed it, the error message is still nonsense and doesn't tell the real error, but at least it doesn't contain an internal oops (as in an almost internal-compiler-error) barf in it
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00:41:04 <ais523> now I'm wondering if naming the pseudodestructor without calling it makes sense
00:41:31 <ais523> the gcc error messages imply that gcc thinks that's acceptable
00:41:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51842&oldid=51841 * JHM * (-2) /* Non-wrapping */
00:43:16 <wob_jonas> ais523: not currently, but it's not unreasonable to think that it is. there's a nonstandard gcc extension to C++ that lets you name an object and a member function together without calling it (to do the virtual method dispatch now but call later and possibly multiple times), and this could be expanded to cover destructors (which can be virtual too)
00:44:14 <wob_jonas> ais523: but currently naming the pseudodestructor doesn't make sense, and usually you get a less crazy error message if you try it, which is why I needed this ugly testcase involving an operator and a typedef for a builtin type
00:44:41 <wob_jonas> s/an operator/an overloaded operator/
00:45:22 <wob_jonas> you don't get this bug if you try to put the pseudo-destructor-non-call into most other contexts
00:46:52 <wob_jonas> and you want to try to name a destructor for a type that is known at compile time to be a scalar type (not just for a dependent type variable that may be a scalar type in some substitution), which you rarely do in real code
00:47:07 <wob_jonas> but don't ask why, I don't know how gcc internals work
00:47:28 <wob_jonas> also, this was many years ago, they have rewritten like half of gcc since
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00:59:28 <wob_jonas> ais523: ok, going back to the NP-complete lexer, I have an idea for how this poetry with word shared between adjacent lines could work
00:59:35 <wob_jonas> it might be a bit strained, but eh, #esoteric
01:01:09 <wob_jonas> Foklorist goes to record epic songs sang by bards before they're lost. Song is Kalevala-style, sang alternatingly by two bards prompting each other, and alliterating.
01:02:26 <wob_jonas> Whenever song changes from one bard to the other, last line of previous bard must have a word that alliterates with a word in first line of next bard, where we define alliteration as the [vowel]*[consonant]-prefix of the words being equal.
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01:05:34 <wob_jonas> For better acoustics, folklorist decides to use two phonographs, one for each bard. Recording media is expensive. So whenever the older bard sings, the folklorist records it with his phonograph to his wax cylinders, and whenever the younger bard sings, the folklorist's assistant (who does all the hard work but gets none of the awards) records it wi
01:05:34 <wob_jonas> th his phonograph on his wax cylinders.
01:06:18 <wob_jonas> The recording media also comes in many small pieces, so they often change cylinders. They forgot to label the cylinders in advance, and don't have time to do it during the performance.
01:07:13 <wob_jonas> The editor Mr. Lexer (another assistant who does all the hard work and gets none of the awards) has to listen to all the cylinders afterwards and put them in proper order so the replies alliterate to their prompts.
01:08:42 <wob_jonas> Note that a single cylinder can have a sequence of multiple adjacent prompts and replies sang by one side.
01:10:07 <wob_jonas> Mr. Lexer will have to solve a problem that could in theory encode a general graph Hamilton-path problem, though in practice it won't be that difficult computationally (and will be difficult for reasons other than computational complexity of the Hamilton thing)
01:10:32 <wob_jonas> This lexing is the first stage, because the interesting part continues when you listen to the whole epic, properly sorted.
01:10:50 <wob_jonas> ais523: does that sound good enough for an NP-complete lexer/
01:11:36 <ais523> since when did esolangs have elaborate backstories? :-D
01:11:41 <ais523> (admittedly, some of cpressey's do)
01:12:56 <wob_jonas> ais523: some of the IOCCC ones do, like that babbage thingy (where each statement is one of x+=y, x-=y, x*=y, x/=y where x and y are variables0
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01:13:37 <wob_jonas> ais523: thematic ones like chef and Piet and Shakespeare also sort of have back stories
01:14:05 <wob_jonas> oh, and of course many of the more recent ICFP languages have very elaborate back stories too
01:14:13 <wob_jonas> Lambda: the Gathering or the sand computer
01:15:20 <wob_jonas> many non-eso languages also have elaborate back stories for why they have such features that you can understand only with decades of historical reasons of compatibility with previous versions
01:15:41 <ais523> right, but those aren't normally constructed with entertainment as a goal
01:15:42 <wob_jonas> like x86 or some of the strange C++ syntax things
01:16:24 <wob_jonas> and those languages that aren't eso but become tarpits, like openttd signals or TeX, they do have back stories too for why they have features that seem to make general purpose programming so difficult
01:17:16 <wob_jonas> "entertainment as a goal" => that much is nicely two-layered, with the meta-story about the bard and the story the bard sings
01:19:46 <wob_jonas> anyway, it's somewhat questionable if you can call this lexing
01:24:38 <wob_jonas> heck, even Game of Life, which is definitely an esolang, has some back story about bacteria that are multiplying and dying form overcrowding
01:26:06 <wob_jonas> not very elaborate, but it is there
01:27:16 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean INTERCAL has an elaborate backstory of "the opposite of everything languages did circa '74"
01:27:42 <ais523> even then, though, it's clearly shaped by the languages at the time
01:28:24 <wob_jonas> it's hard to make something that's truly alien to everything done before
01:29:17 <ais523> I dunno, three star programmer is pretty weird :-D
01:32:40 <wob_jonas> weird yes, but definitely not alien, not after other esolangs that are one-instruction (or few instructions) and operate on a random-addressable vector of fixints
01:33:12 <wob_jonas> it's just more elegant than most of those in some sense, because it's so simple
01:33:47 <wob_jonas> and much more constrained (tarpit) than the other comparably simple ones
01:36:57 <ais523> But Is It Art? also seems to avoid nearly all the rules of a typical programming language
01:37:16 <ais523> its syntax is inherently 2D, it doesn't have commands, it doesn't have any sort of data storage or loop
01:37:22 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, that's a better example
01:37:39 <ais523> it doesn't have an evaluation order
01:37:52 <wob_jonas> not only is the syntax 2D, but the execution is also 2D and nondeterministic
01:38:03 <wob_jonas> it, like, executes in two time dimensions
01:38:13 <Phantom_Hoover> looks on a very preliminary skim to be a similar concept to TC wang tilings
01:38:30 <ais523> yes, it's basically a tarpit of that category of languages
01:38:44 <wob_jonas> Phantom: yes, it's a generalization of those
01:40:57 <wob_jonas> Then there's Forte, which surfacially look very similar to an ordinary language, but when you try to write programs for it, it turns out there's some crazy twist that makes it difficult.
01:41:17 <ais523> I wouldn't call Forte alien, though
01:41:20 <ais523> the familiarity is part of the joke
01:42:19 <wob_jonas> Heck, in some sense counter machines are like that too, if you introduce them as multi-tape turing machines where the tape alphabet only has one symbol
01:43:22 <wob_jonas> (or more like one writable symbol, plus one symbol that marks the beginning of the tape, which is totally realistic, because real magnetic tape drives can detect the beginning of the tape when rewinding in a way other than reading symbols from the tape)
01:43:39 <ais523> it crossed my mind that Minsky machines are technically a brainfuck derivative (just with reverse causality)
01:44:38 <wob_jonas> I mean, I know how they're brainfuck derivatives (with fixed size tape of bigints), but why reverse causality?
01:45:19 <wob_jonas> oh! reverse causality in the history of languages, not in execution
01:45:44 <wob_jonas> I thought of reverse causality in the sense that it is modeled by nondeterministic execution or something
01:47:23 <wob_jonas> That's like how 8086 is a derivative of 8088 with reverse causality, because technically 8086 was first, 8088 is simpler and cheaper and got well spread to consumers because of the IBM PC.
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01:49:06 <wob_jonas> the 8086 clearly looks like an advanced 8088 with 16-bit memory access
01:51:18 <wob_jonas> but that sort of hardware simplification has happened before the x86 too, like with those simplified 6502 variants
01:53:32 <wob_jonas> in reality, if you're watching not as a tunnel visioned software guy like me, the 8088 really is a better 8086, because it requires a much simpler hardware interface to use (and is a bit less performant in exchange)
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02:26:09 <wob_jonas> huh? why would someone consider zsh a bourne-like shell as opposed to a tcsh-like shell? to me, the most important distinguishing feature between those is that a bourne-like or posix-likeshell does word splitting after it expands a parameter like $foo , whereas tcsh and zsh doesn't.
02:26:35 <wob_jonas> I could be wrong though, because I don't use tcsh or zsh much.
02:26:43 <wob_jonas> I don't really remember how they work.
02:27:29 <wob_jonas> I can write bash and posix sh scripts mostly without referencing a manual, but can't do that for zsh or tcsh.
02:29:27 <wob_jonas> So it's possible that I just think of those shells as bash-like and non-bash-like.
02:29:50 <wob_jonas> Can someone who knows about csh and zsh and posix-like sh pipe in?
02:31:22 <wob_jonas> (Yes, it's sort of a high bar, but we're on #esoteric )
02:34:24 <fizzie> I was a tcsh user 15-20 years ago, and zsh was the default shell at the university, but I've entirely forgotten the subtleties. It was just too easy to default to bash.
02:35:48 <wob_jonas> fizzie: zsh is cool, it's almost certainly a better shell than bash, but I decided not to bother learning it because if I want to write a program where the difference between shells matter, then I use perl or some other non-shell language
03:07:24 <Cale> Shells are all pretty terrible languages in which to write anything nontrivial. The guy I work for just had an incident where he replaced some double quotes with single quotes in a client's bash script, and it ended up doing rm -rf / and wiping out his home directory on that machine (thankfully it happened on a machine that didn't have much of interest on it at the time).
03:08:54 * Zarutian uses tclsh if he can get away with it ;-Þ
03:10:43 <Jafet> from a shell user's point of view, zsh and bash have converged a bit over time; zsh has acquired many bash compatibility settings (including for word splitting) and bash has acquired many zsh features (such as programmable completion)
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03:12:56 <Cale> (Whoever decided that unbound variables ought to be interpolated as the empty string was not thinking very clearly at the time.)
03:13:29 <Jafet> pretty sure you can come up with a haskell program where the same replacement has the same effect
03:14:11 <Cale> It'd be pretty tricky to contrive it... the issue was that there was an interpolation in that string which actually set the value of another variable at the same time
03:14:41 <Cale> and then later, that variable was used in the path to rm
03:15:53 <Jafet> sounds like a script that was not written in the sensible subset of bash
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03:16:26 <Jafet> (well, that subset is pretty small, and probably not obvious to novices)
03:16:47 <Cale> and the script didn't *look* insane or anything
03:18:02 <Jafet> changing quote marks is not a safe operation in most languages, though, so I don't know why one would do it?
03:18:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51843&oldid=51837 * Oerjan * (+2) /* Common Lisp */ Bugfix
03:20:23 <Cale> Jafet: I didn't ask. I think he'd completely missed the fact that there was any variable expansion going on in that string at all.
03:22:46 <Cale> The other silly thing is that rm doesn't actually check that it will succeed before beginning to delete stuff.
03:30:39 <Jafet> rm -rf / is special-cased nowadays
03:32:29 <Jafet> which is interesting, because you'd imagine that people would unintentionally rm all sorts of other things, but no, only the infamous / is detected
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04:31:05 <hppavilion[1]> Just wrote a Python program to solve 1-1+1-1+1-...
04:37:46 <HackEgo> 1/3:nothing//Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry. \ absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break maths. \ lazy//La \ nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented
04:37:50 <HackEgo> 2/3:her. \ hydra//http://www.madore.org/~david/math/hydra0.xhtml , dire: http://www.madore.org/~david/math/hydra.xhtml , theory: http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2008-03-27.1537.html http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2008-03-16.1534.ordinaux-et-hydres.html http://math.andrej.com/2008/02/02/the-hydra-game/ https://en.wikipedia.org
04:38:00 <HackEgo> 3/3:/wiki/Goodstein%27s_theorem
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09:28:20 <Taneb> http://conal.net/papers/compiling-to-categories/compiling-to-categories.pdf is a paper I found interesting
09:33:55 <shachaf> Oh, he finally published it.
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10:21:14 <Taneb> shachaf, if I can, which is unlikely
10:24:22 <Taneb> Well, how much do tickets cost
10:27:21 <shachaf> I don't know, I guess registration isn't open yet.
10:28:17 <shachaf> Looks like student early tickets for all of ICFP in 2016 cost $300.
10:37:11 <Taneb> Add to that transport (thankfully it's not overseas for me this year, but it's still a journey) and accommodation
10:38:28 <shachaf> You're practically next door.
10:38:43 <shachaf> You could go for one day to see conal's talk.
10:39:47 <Taneb> It's a five hour journey by train
10:43:10 <Taneb> I'm not going to be based in York after June
10:43:15 <Taneb> I might also not be a student
10:44:32 <shachaf> Or you might be a PhD student at Oxford?
10:44:39 <shachaf> That would make it very convenient.
10:45:02 <Taneb> And also rather unlikely
10:45:47 <shachaf> Sorry, of course I mean DPhil.
10:46:35 <Taneb> Considering my prospective final grade, still rather unlikely
10:47:19 <Nistur> Huh. Something just down the road from me. Interesting
10:47:48 <Nistur> shame there's no way my wife would approve of me spending that much money to go :P
10:49:57 <Nistur> it's also on my birthday
10:50:20 <Taneb> Do you think you could potentially convince your wife to let someone you met on the internet stay for a week over your birthday
10:50:38 <Nistur> (I'm about 30 minutes up M40 from Oxford. I've done the trundle down to Oxford several times)
10:50:48 <Taneb> (not a serious request)
10:51:15 <Taneb> I've got a friend in Abingdon who I'd call on first
10:51:30 <Nistur> shachaf: bing bing bing. Points. Although I actually live in Coventry because house prices in Leamington are stupid
10:51:50 <shachaf> What are house prices in Leamington like?
10:51:56 <Taneb> Isn't Phantom_Hoover in Coventry?
10:52:34 <shachaf> "2 bedroom semi-detached house for sale" "£200,000 Guide Price"
10:52:46 <shachaf> That can't be London prices, surely.
10:52:58 <Nistur> I bought a 2 bedroom house in a cul-de-sac with a garden in a nice part of Coventry for £125. That would barely have got me a 1 bed flat in most parts of Leamington
10:53:14 <shachaf> Maybe this website isn't reliable.
10:53:15 <Nistur> it depends what parts of Leamington you're looking at
10:53:45 <Taneb> Do house prices scale linearly in the number of bedrooms, absent other factors?
10:54:14 <Nistur> (not wanting to be overly snobby) but you don't really want to buy in South Leamington... and anything in North will cost you more
10:55:19 <shachaf> The bay area is pretty scow in this respect.
10:55:29 <Nistur> I think it'd be impossible to ignore other factors, I mean, you can't split rooms indefinitely
10:55:54 <Nistur> so the size of the house has to affect it too
10:56:18 <Nistur> but otherwise... probably yes
10:56:59 <shachaf> I'd guess that house prices are primarily affected by land prices, which are primarily affected by location and size.
10:57:26 <shachaf> Number of bedrooms is probably loosely correlated with size.
10:58:13 <shachaf> Maybe this is more true around here where land prices are ridiculous so the houses themselves are often comparably cheap.
10:59:54 <Nistur> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/leamington-spa/?price_max=130000&price_min=120000&q=Leamington%20Spa%2C%20Warwickshire&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home There are only two places actually around Leamington for that price range... one is a retirement house which looks like it might be a mobile home, bricked in... and the other one is a 1 bed flat
11:00:58 <shachaf> I looked at http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-66040934.html
11:01:07 <shachaf> But it was the first Google search result so it's probably unreliable.
11:01:23 <shachaf> seo = scow engine optimization
11:03:36 <Nistur> Lillington is a little bit outside of Leamington though
11:05:27 <Nistur> it's not quite London prices, you're right... but in Coventry, a similar property is easily £50k cheaper in a similarly nice location
11:05:46 <Nistur> I work in Leamington though
11:06:22 <shachaf> Anyway as far as I can tell you can't find anything around here for less than, say, $600k.
11:06:40 <shachaf> Not that I'd be likely to buy real estate anyway?
11:06:55 <shachaf> But complaining about real estate prices is a popular activity.
11:07:01 <shachaf> I guess I could complain about rent prices instead.
11:09:41 <shachaf> Looks like London prices may be roughly the same neighborhood?
11:10:01 <Jafet> with renting the technique of splitting rooms becomes possible, though perhaps not indefinitely
11:10:30 <shachaf> If price is linear in number of rooms, splitting can be a profitable strategy.
11:10:48 <Jafet> maybe you could rent a bunk for half of each day
11:11:12 <Jafet> (the fabled rental time-division multiplexing)
11:11:20 <fizzie> UK's smallest castle is for sale at £550k, said the news the other day.
11:11:30 <fizzie> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/uks-smallest-castle-sale-550000/
11:11:31 <shachaf> Jafet: that theory has been debunked hth
11:13:55 <Jafet> would purchasing that count as a defensive investment?
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11:15:12 <Nistur> when I lived in London, I had a friend that rented a room... it was just a little larger than a single bed (as in, he could just about stand beside the bed) and it was in a... not great part of London (although, not overly crappy either) and it cost him £90/week I think
11:16:25 <shachaf> I rented a pretty small room in East Palo Alto (a not great part of silly valley, people would probably call it) for a similar price.
11:16:36 <shachaf> It was somewhat bigger, though.
11:18:31 <shachaf> fizzie: You could have bought a nuclear missile silo in NY for a similar price: https://www.zillow.com/blog/house-of-the-week-missile-silo-home-66159/
11:24:42 <Nistur> have you seen that guy who's bought a missile silo and is youtubing videos of cleaning it up?
11:25:13 <Nistur> ummmm... "Death Wears Bunny Slippers" the channel is called
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11:46:09 <fungot> boily: we're going down hard and fast and.
11:46:35 <boily> fungot: indeed. my nostrils aren't working. or working too much. either way, fscking allergies.
11:46:35 <fungot> boily: can anyone point out a particularly clean vm implemented in c
11:47:58 <Taneb> boily, are you taking anything for them?
11:48:28 <boily> Tanelle. yes, loratadine.
11:49:07 <Taneb> That's good, I hope things get easier for you
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20:32:10 <int-e> shachaf: I have to admit that the tower was quite unexpected (and no I didn't solve that level yet)
20:32:35 <shachaf> That was the level I was on last time I played the game (which was a few weeks ago, before I lost my computer).
20:32:44 <shachaf> (Which I've now found so I should get back to it.)
20:32:55 <shachaf> I managed to cook all the sausages but then I was stuck on the ledge.
20:33:11 <int-e> yes, the great tower
20:44:06 <int-e> I didn't really try... there's another level on that island that is unsolved here (Twisty Farm), which is easier to think about
20:51:33 <int-e> well, not anymore.
20:55:44 <shachaf> I had a few others on that island. I should keep going on that game sometime.
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23:47:30 <HackEgo> math//Math class is tough!
23:50:58 <HackEgo> 10653:2017-04-13 <oerjän> ` cd wisdom; sed -i \'s/ $//\' `grwp -l \' $\' | grep -v rules` \ 6426:2015-12-19 <b_jonäs> le/rn math/Math class is tough!
23:54:17 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
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23:54:39 <HackEgo> ichtymology:Ichtymology is like itymology, but even more fishy. \ vampire:Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf.
23:55:14 <HackEgo> for further details.//See `? for further details for futher details.
23:55:18 <HackEgo> football//A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies.
23:55:23 <boily> helloochaf, he\\oren\.
23:55:35 <HackEgo> for futher details? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:55:56 <HackEgo> nimby//NIMBY : Not in my backyard.
23:56:00 <HackEgo> webcarting//webcarting is not dissimilar to Mario Kart, but uses real, remote-controlled go-karts. Participants describe it as "the outlandish spectacle of real go-karting combined with the thrill and immersion of Mario Kart".
00:00:49 <HackEgo> ☾_//☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers.
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01:13:04 <\oren\> Isn't it great when software is not documented excpet in the head of someone who doesn't work here anymore?
01:15:11 <boily> I much prefer no comments than lying comments.
01:16:46 <\oren\> I should probably rmember this and document some of the stuff I'm doing in case I get hit by a streetcar
01:17:57 <\oren\> yeah lying documentation would be worse
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01:18:15 <HackEgo> browser:A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. \ latex:LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} \ links:links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in ca
01:19:16 <HackEgo> lrint:The lrint and lrintf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented. \ snap:Snap is a simple web development framework for unix systems, written in the Haskell programming language. Snap has a high level of test coverage and is well-documented. \ trunc:The trunc and
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01:19:38 <HackEgo> trunc:The trunc and truncf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented.
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01:26:06 <quintopia> boily: are you aware a hamilton circuit on the rubiks cube state space cayley graph is known?
01:26:27 <quintopia> a sequence of moves that hits every legal config exactly once
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01:32:52 <\oren\> that's a long sequence
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02:21:19 <HackEgo> [U+2015 HORIZONTAL BAR] [U+2014 EM DASH]
02:28:00 <\oren\> Google Maps sends hundreds of cliff-seeking tourists to Norwegian village 30km away
02:28:39 <\oren\> “We have sent hundreds of tourists away in no uncertainty that they’re on the wrong side of the fjord. In the summer season up to 10-15 cars show up each day,” Fossmork resident Helge Fossmark told Norwegian newspaper Stavanger Aftenblad.
02:30:08 <\oren\> Another resident said he lends them a set of binoculars to catch a peek at the people on the actual cliff formation, which can be seen from the village.
02:37:00 <tswe_tt> 30km? That's not that far.
02:37:38 <quintopia> i wonder if its the cliff that i visited
02:38:04 <quintopia> it cant be a coincidence that helge fossmark lives in fossmork
02:38:30 <tswe_tt> About a week ago I drove 50km to get a beer and a pizza.
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02:39:06 <quintopia> it was supposed to be a chicago deep dish pizza, but it wasnt even close
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03:09:37 <doesthiswork> So I have prologish thing using variable renaming to keep variables from different scopes distinct
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03:59:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bobbyfisher101 * New user account
04:04:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51844&oldid=49679 * Isaacg1 * (+0)
04:25:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51845&oldid=51070 * Hsorenson * (-50)
04:28:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51846&oldid=51836 * Bobbyfisher101 * (+187)
04:28:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ybc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51847 * Bobbyfisher101 * (+3190) Programming Language YBC
04:30:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51848&oldid=51750 * Bobbyfisher101 * (+10) /* Y */
04:30:49 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FkpM4FWa8A
04:30:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51849&oldid=51848 * Bobbyfisher101 * (+0) /* Y */
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04:49:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ybc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51850&oldid=51847 * Bobbyfisher101 * (-725)
04:51:26 <\oren\> excert from bot abuse in another channel:
04:52:11 <\oren\> ay: oreeeen thinks Qboid meeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeen thinks Qboid meeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeen thinks Qboid meeeeant to say:
04:52:46 <shachaf> methinks that bot abuse was not in this channel for a reason hth
04:53:17 <\oren\> oren thinks Qboid meant to say: oreen thinks Qboid meeant to say: oreeeen thinks Qboid meeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeen thinks Qboid
04:53:21 <\oren\> oren thinks Qboid meant to say: oreen thinks Qboid meeant to say: oreeeen thinks Qboid meeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeen thinks Qboid
04:53:24 <\oren\> meeeeeeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen thinks Qboid meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeant to say: oreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen thinks Qboid
04:53:44 <shachaf> i am a bot, and this is abuse
04:54:05 <\oren\> shachaf: so basically they had a bot that does s///
04:54:27 <\oren\> so I started sending it s/e/ee/
04:54:40 <doesthiswork> do we need to call bot services and get you to a less abusive channel?
04:55:25 <\oren\> and it kept doubling the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
04:55:43 <izabera> such amazing hacking skills
04:56:11 <Jafet> the mark of an ee-lite
04:56:21 <doesthiswork> doubling the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
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11:47:38 <HackEgo> emoticon//emoticon: ¯\(°_o)/¯
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12:30:33 <boily> hellørjan! byerjan!
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12:39:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mayube * New user account
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12:43:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51851&oldid=51846 * Mayube * (+223) /* Introductions */
12:44:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51852&oldid=51849 * Mayube * (+16) /* B */ Added Braingolf to list
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14:07:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ybc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51853&oldid=51850 * Bobbyfisher101 * (+5013)
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14:29:42 <wob_jonas> "A football is a ball made of feet. It was rdocscovered in an old burial site near a graveyard full of footless zombies." (wisdom)
14:29:59 <wob_jonas> I still say that a ball made of feet is this sculpture: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Szegedvaros-aranycsapat.JPG
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14:39:23 <wob_jonas> "Isn't it great when software is not documented excpet in the head of someone who doesn't work here anymore?" => yeah. I've seen that from both sides: having to use software like that, and writing software like that.
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15:30:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51854 * Mayube * (+10358) Created page with "'''Braingolf''' is a stack-based esoteric language designed by Programming Puzzles and Code-Golf user, [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/44998/ Mayube]. The name origi..."
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15:45:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51855&oldid=51854 * Mayube * (+445)
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17:35:53 <Taneb> How I use GHCi as a calculator: :!dc -e "1 2 + p"
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17:42:17 <int-e> that reminds me of http://sprunge.us/EcSD (no clue whether this works, that has been in my quote file for 15 years, I think)
17:42:31 <int-e> (how to format a tex file in vi)
17:45:23 * Zarutian scuttles away before the pun hits.
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18:42:07 <rdococ> my favourite array item is here
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21:59:36 <quintopia> so now oerjan is on ppcg. its so one way! everyone from here goes there, but no one important from there comes here
21:59:49 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za3L9fTGexQ
22:00:09 <wob_jonas> quintopia: isn't that because this channel is older than PPCG?
22:00:40 <shachaf> you seem irritated about this bill for some reason
22:00:57 <wob_jonas> I don't know the history of this channel
22:01:43 <shachaf> Hmm, I started using IRC around 2003.
22:01:53 <shachaf> But I wasn't here until many years later.
22:01:59 <wob_jonas> the channel was started before I even used the screen name jonas
22:02:15 <wob_jonas> I was a newbie to the internet back then
22:03:08 <lambdabot> http://acronymsmeanings.com/full-meaning-of/ppcgh/ppcgh-stands-for-ppcgh-means
22:03:08 <lambdabot> Title: What is the meaning of PPCGH, acronym definition of PPCGH, abbreviation PPCGH...
22:03:09 <lambdabot> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/
22:03:25 <wob_jonas> I know the history goes back to forever, because HackEgo has this `! command which is trying to be a replacement for some previous bot that I haven't ever met
22:03:52 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/: Permission denied
22:03:56 <wob_jonas> int-e: be careful. I've been running an IRC bot for ten years now. I'm not that modern.
22:04:10 <int-e> wob_jonas: I meant SE
22:04:14 <pikhq> shachaf: Gee, you think?
22:04:45 <HackEgo> ! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
22:05:12 <\oren\> now look at this net, that I just found.
22:05:23 <HackEgo> 6945:2016-02-24 <oerjän> le/rn !/! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
22:06:17 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LztagIixx2Y
22:06:30 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn `!//`! is a command that runs interpreters. Supposedly. Nobody actually uses it, or knows how it works. It has some historical significance, where it replaces some previous bot of #esoteric that was not as customizable as HackEgo.
22:06:36 <HackEgo> Learned '`!': `! is a command that runs interpreters. Supposedly. Nobody actually uses it, or knows how it works. It has some historical significance, where it replaces some previous bot of #esoteric that was not as customizable as HackEgo.
22:07:06 <HackEgo> EgoBot is my arch-nemesis.
22:07:06 <shachaf> No one knows how it works?
22:07:20 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
22:07:42 <wob_jonas> it's supposed to work something like that
22:07:43 <HackEgo> `! is a command that runs interpreters. Supposedly. Nobody actually uses it, or knows how it works. It has some historical significance, where it replaces some previous bot of #esoteric that was not as customizable as HackEgo.
22:08:02 <\oren\> `! c printf("hello world");
22:08:03 <wob_jonas> `! c int main() { printf("hello, world\n"); return 0; }
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22:08:29 <shachaf> oerjan: I must say I appreciate how it's "Initïal" and not "Initiäl" import.
22:09:06 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn `!//`! is a command that runs interpreters. Supposedly. Nobody actually uses it, or knows how it works. It has some historical significance, where it originally replaced some previous bot of #esoteric that was not as customizable as HackEgo.
22:09:08 <HackEgo> Relearned '`!': `! is a command that runs interpreters. Supposedly. Nobody actually uses it, or knows how it works. It has some historical significance, where it originally replaced some previous bot of #esoteric that was not as customizable as HackEgo.
22:09:09 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
22:09:21 <HackEgo> EgoBot is my arch-nemesis.
22:09:49 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
22:10:07 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
22:10:25 <wob_jonas> ! perl print "hello from egobot perl"
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22:12:42 <fungot> wob_jonas: gotta " cvs login" first. what are the operands?
22:13:47 <wob_jonas> `! c int main() { printf("hello from C,\n"); }
22:13:56 <wob_jonas> `! c #include <stdio.h> \ int main() { printf("hello from C,\n"); }
22:14:04 <wob_jonas> `! c #include <stdio.h> \n int main() { printf("hello from C,\\n"); }
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22:17:14 <\oren\> now net at this net, that I just net. when I net net, be ready to net. net! net it at him not me! ugh, let's net something else.
22:20:24 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9gDfuQaubI
22:27:05 <\oren\> now net and learn, here's the deal, he'll net and net on this banana peel! *boing* what are you netting!
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22:31:24 <zzo38> I made a list of the short description of my Farbfeld Utilities http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation (all of the links are currently not implemented, but that wiki is writable by anyone). You can also therefore to see what kinds of things might be missing. One thing that I thought to add can be a program to make the tensor product of two pictures.
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22:59:33 <HackEgo> ent//Ents are very useful creatures for the puzzle of writing town names in Hungary as the catenation of six or more Hungarian words. Bal-a-s-s-a-gyarmat Bal-a-ton-{s-zár-szó,{rend,szem}-e-s} Egy-ház-a-s-holló-s Fel-s-ősz-ent-már-ton Jász-ár-ok-száll-á-s Ki-s-kun-{fél-egy-ház-a,hal-a-s} Rá-basz-ent-mik-ló-s Vér-te-s-sző-lő-s.
23:09:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51856 * Taneb * (+449) Created page with "'''Sacramento Wormhole''' is an upcoming [[Esoteric programming language|esoteric programming language]] created by [[Nathan van Doorn]] and Daniel J. A. Bailey. To understand..."
23:10:03 <sdhand> Don't open irc on your phone
23:10:23 <zzo38> I thought of a new variant of a VLQ, which the difference is that if the high bit is set you must subtract 127 instead of subtracting 128.
23:11:34 <boily> sdhellond. IRC on your phone is good for you.
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23:25:08 <sdhand> Taneb is making an esolang
23:25:19 <sdhand> I am losing a board game
23:26:24 <boily> which boardgame? solo?
23:27:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51857&oldid=51856 * Taneb * (+513)
23:29:07 <int-e> shachaf: I fried the great tower
23:29:23 <sdhand> boily: it is called eclipse
23:30:57 <boily> sdhand: large hexagons? a metric armadaload of spaceships and small little cubes?
23:32:31 <boily> one of the best games out there! play Eridani, rush galactic center, ?????, profit!
23:34:56 <sdhand> I'm playing eridani heh
23:35:28 <sdhand> I did a lot of exploration turn 1
23:35:39 <sdhand> Only found ancient hexes
23:35:50 <sdhand> And then my economy ranked
23:38:53 <boily> hellorcah. did some tile shuffling two days ago.
23:39:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51858&oldid=51857 * Taneb * (+401)
23:41:27 <alercah> I still need to figure out if I can actually go to montreal after the... stuff
23:43:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51859&oldid=51858 * Taneb * (-1)
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23:48:07 <Taneb> I'm pretty happy with this language
23:51:13 <boily> alercah: more stuff? :(
23:53:42 <sleffy> how to delimit continuate without accidentally building a static typechecker into a lisp
23:57:56 <HackEgo> auction:Auction is going once... going twice... gone to the cowled entity in the corner for six trillion zorkmids. \ bitcoin:bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to
23:58:35 <HackEgo> 2/8: support up to 21 million coins before breaking. \ firefly:FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. \ hðh:hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ hppavilion:hppa
00:02:40 <zzo38> I don't like the new rule 115.2e of Magic: the Gathering, which look a bit klugy to me. I think it would be clearer if the Oracle text of the card just said that it was a special action. ("You may discard ~ any time as a special action.")
00:02:57 <int-e> `learn Up is a direction away from the center of gravity of a celestial object.
00:03:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'up': Up is a direction away from the center of gravity of a celestial object.
00:03:29 <alercah> zzo38: that requires explaining to people what a special action is
00:07:39 <zzo38> Yes, but if you play Magic: the Gathering then you can learn.
00:11:47 <alercah> you can but should not have do
00:11:54 <alercah> most players never need to hear the words "special action"
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01:10:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Danieljabailey * New user account
01:17:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51860&oldid=51851 * Danieljabailey * (+100) Introduced myself, Dan
01:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51861&oldid=51859 * Taneb * (+106) Put some <code> tags in
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01:19:03 * boily signs the motteke sailor fuku ♪
01:19:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51862 * Danieljabailey * (+347) Add thing about delete past end of file
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01:19:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51863&oldid=51862 * Danieljabailey * (+16) oops, fix code format
01:21:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51864&oldid=51863 * Taneb * (+158) /* Range beyond end of file behaviour */
01:22:13 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think that's just a clarifying rule. The ability on Circling Vultures, as written in the current Oracle text, already sounds like it's giving you a special action.
01:23:23 <wob_jonas> What I don't understand though is why they didn't just errata it to an activated ability active when in your hand with the discard as a cost. On such old cards, from before sixth edition, they often make such errata.
01:24:32 <wob_jonas> There are lots of cards from that time that have an ability that used to be activated but now isn't, or backwards. Since it was before the sixth ed, they don't stick to the printed templating closely. On modern cards they rarely do such a change (though it does happen, like they recently changed how madness works).
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01:28:24 <zzo38> wob_jonas: OK it may be clarifying rule, but it seem to me to be more clear if it says "as a special action"; the cards I designed that do similar stuff do say "as a special action" if it is a special action.
01:28:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: and there's a good reason why 115.2c already covers most special actions, because most of the other delayed things they can just implement as activated abilities or triggered abilities or delayed triggers or other normal stuff.
01:29:36 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I take that back. It's not a clarifying rule, because 115.2c doesn't cover it. 115.2c only covers delayed special abilities, which are the activated version of delayed triggers, but they aren't triggers because you can pay for them, and might enable you to activate mana abilities first.
01:29:58 <wob_jonas> But all that tech's not required for simple things like the Vulture.
01:30:30 <zzo38> OK maybe, but it still seem klugy to me the way they did it, instead of just writing on the card text, "as a special action"
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01:30:46 <wob_jonas> It should be a fricking activated ability.
01:31:08 <wob_jonas> Yes, I know it's not the same rules-wise, because then you can respond to it and it's an object on the stack you can counter,
01:32:16 <zzo38> Or just "Discard ~: No effect." could be another possibility, I suppose.
01:32:36 <wob_jonas> If it was printed two years later, it'd just say cycling {0}
01:32:58 <wob_jonas> zzo38: hmm wait, they actually added a phrasing for "No effect" these days... what was it
01:33:17 <wob_jonas> it appears in some replacement effects, possibly self-replacement
01:36:47 <wob_jonas> nope, sorry, they didn't add a phrasing that appears in oracle yet
01:37:06 <wob_jonas> "do nothing" appears in comp rules once, but they always avoid saying that in oracle texts or cards
01:37:22 <wob_jonas> because they're not writing the cards for algebraists or programmers, apparently
01:38:19 <wob_jonas> at least they sometimes have {0} as a noop cost of activated abilities and mana cost of spells, though it's less common these days, it's more because of gameplay problems such abilities cause, not because of templating problems
01:38:34 <zzo38> They should write the cards for algebraists and programmers, because that would make the text more clearly.
01:39:25 <wob_jonas> zzo38: it's not so bad. at least they did dare to make level up cards start from level 1
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01:53:40 <sdhand> I am convinced Taneb's esolang isn't powerful enough to do much
01:53:55 <sdhand> there's no easy way of updating the ranges in some of the expressions
01:54:14 <sdhand> which is needed for any looping structure
01:54:22 <LKoen> what's Taneb's esolang?
01:55:14 <sdhand> well Taneb's and danieljabailey's
01:55:24 <boily> what's a danieljabaley?
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01:56:08 <sdhand> they were designing it and distracting me from my board game, clearly why I lost....
01:56:09 <sdhand> https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Taneb/Sacramento_Wormhole
01:57:07 <sdhand> Dan and I attempted to come up with a fizzbuzz implementation but it seems impossible
01:57:14 <sdhand> obviously I haven't proven this
01:59:17 <LKoen> try to come up with a truth-machine implementation
01:59:25 <LKoen> it should be less tedious than fizzbuzz
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02:15:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cheese3660 * New user account
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02:33:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51865&oldid=51860 * Cheese3660 * (+290) Introduced myself
02:34:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51866&oldid=50771 * Cheese3660 * (+147) Added an interpreter
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03:05:37 <zzo38> Now I am writing a program to make the tensor product of two pictures.
03:18:43 <shachaf> But I haven't seen it yet.
03:20:29 <zzo38> Then, you should look at first before you can see if you like this or not, I shoud think
03:21:45 <zzo38> You can see http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/ it is all of the Farbfeld Utilities.
03:22:10 <zzo38> I also made a list of all of the programs with short descriptions
03:22:52 <shachaf> Unfortunately I can't do it from my phone.
03:24:11 <zzo38> O, I did not know that you are doing from your phone.
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04:31:01 <pikhq> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0&feature=youtu.be Pachelbel's Canon in D, or as it was originally titled, "Canon and Gigue for Three Violins and Basso Continuo", is apparently a lot more interesting if you... play it at the original tempo.
04:33:35 <Cale> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
04:34:23 <pikhq> I'm rather amused that part of it is typically played at something like a fourth of the intended speed.
04:34:37 <pikhq> (the gigue section)
04:50:04 <zzo38> I did not know that.
04:51:12 <pikhq> For those that don't know: a "gigue" was a baroque *dance tune*.
04:51:23 <pikhq> That's how lively the piece is intended to be.
04:52:20 <zzo38> Yes I know what gigue is. I did not know that that music had another title though
05:01:11 <doesthiswork> I thought that was the usual speed to play it, at least it was when I was in orchestra
05:08:51 <zzo38> What sound cards are capable of a sample rate high enough for colour television?
05:09:18 <zzo38> Is there such a thing?
05:16:06 <zzo38> Computing tensor product of pictures is not something I have seen in any other program (or collection of programs) to deal with pictures.
05:16:11 <zzo38> Have you seen any such thing?
05:17:41 <zzo38> Some of the stuff in my Farbfeld Utilities is stuff I have seen in other programs (common in some cases, rare in others), while others are stuff I have never seen anywhere else. But you can correct me if you have seen some of this stuff even though I have not seen!
05:19:40 <zzo38> (Also, some of them are stuff I have seen as parts of other functions in other programs, but not by themself.)
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07:35:41 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: whoa whoa whoa, do you know about non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs
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09:54:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51867&oldid=49732 * Primo * (+99) /* 160 */
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11:00:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51868&oldid=51867 * Primo * (+60) /* 45306 */
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11:25:00 <\oren\> Oh god this game just casually mentions that in the future chinchillas are extinct... poor chinchillas
11:25:05 <\oren\> I hope we can save the chinchillas
11:26:18 <myname> "there are no more elephants" "there is no more unethical treatment of elephants either. the world is a much better place"
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11:26:40 <myname> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcFHvEpP7A
11:30:37 <int-e> yeah just imagine how much better the world will be when we got rid of the people
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11:31:21 <myname> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG3uea-Hvy4
11:32:37 <\oren\> and eliminate the fucking mosquitoes
11:33:04 <\oren\> can we make species extinct on purpose in the future instead of by accident
11:33:15 <myname> those don't really bother me
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11:33:39 <myname> like, not at all in the last year
11:33:41 <int-e> the mosquitos are part of the solution
11:34:11 <int-e> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_3n9tU1_Q
11:34:38 <int-e> (btw I'm not clicking your links, I'm not really expecting you to click mine)
11:35:33 <izabera> related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign mao's campain to eliminate mosquitoes resulted in loss of whole harvests and widespread famine
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11:39:06 <\oren\> izabera: well that was because they didn't know the sparrows were eating the locusts
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11:42:59 <\oren\> from what I can see on wikipedia there aren't any obvious problems with eliminating the mosquitoes that spread malaria and sleeping sickness
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13:15:18 <\oren\> I like this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_QOOHAlFEA
13:15:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hellørjan.: not found
13:30:11 <\oren\> Oh god, a reference to yuru yuri. This game was made by people whose tastes are creepily similar to mine
13:31:50 <oerjan> . o O ( what is \oren\ smurfing about in the logs )
13:35:07 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/J9gDfuQaubI?t=1m30s this?
13:37:16 <oerjan> the joy of seeing someone need 9 tries to get past the wiki introduction...
13:42:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51869&oldid=51864 * Oerjan * (+134) Missing the obvious
13:44:05 <oerjan> <\oren\> now net at this net, that I just net. when I net net, be ready to net. net! net it at him not me! ugh, let's net something else.
13:44:47 <\oren\> yeah it's a version of we are number one where all verbs are replaced with net
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14:02:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51870&oldid=51869 * Oerjan * (+351) /* PDA */
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14:32:40 <moony> I got around to porting _js to asdfbot (otherbot's successor)
14:33:07 <moony> works well, just need to trim the output so it doesnt go on indefinitly if you abuse it :P
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14:39:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Taneb/Sacramento Wormhole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51871&oldid=51870 * Taneb * (+249) /* PDA */
14:41:05 <boily> `relcome handicraftsman
14:41:06 <HackEgo> handicraftsman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:42:52 <moony> boily, he just followed the channel name when i brought in asdfbot (I know him)
14:43:15 <myname> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-R5wm0UQAADBng.jpg go.
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14:46:10 <moony> handicraftsman, it couldnt identify the U perms. Please dont do that, you know what chaining runa* commands does :P
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14:46:51 <moony> dont bring it he- EEE
14:47:03 <moony> Seriously, they dont like sudden bot swarms. This is not ##lazy-valoran
14:47:05 <boily> myname: mynamello. that is vile!
14:47:21 <moony> handicraftsman, make protonbot leave.
14:47:23 <boily> I like swarms. good practice for mapoling ^^
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14:47:50 <int-e> boily: swatting seems more appropriate
14:48:05 <int-e> . o O ( A mapole couldn't hurt a fly ;-) )
14:48:50 <int-e> (it's not actually true, but swatters make it much easier)
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14:50:32 <asdfbot> handicraftsman: Command groups (use list <group>): chanop fun main general
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14:54:11 <moony> handicraftsman, i know. last i checked, otherbot didnt bother them as long as bot spam did not occur :P
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15:22:09 <HackEgo> emac//emacs is the weird brother of nano.
15:23:24 <boily> emacs is everything mashed, amalgamated, conflagrated and stringed together in an unholy mess of weird key combinations.
15:24:50 <shachaf> `le//rn emac//The eMac, released in 2002, was the first model of Macintosh computer to use electricity.
15:24:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'emac': The eMac, released in 2002, was the first model of Macintosh computer to use electricity.
15:25:11 <HackEgo> vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
15:25:43 <myname> huh, how can it differ by 2?
15:33:25 <moony> Im working on emulating a filesystem inside of _js
15:34:38 <moony> so far i have the base design for how, say, null devices will emulate
15:35:24 <moony> devices in general actually :P
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17:53:30 <zzo38> Do you think this document is good? http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffbit If something in unclear or wrong or incomplete to please either to make the suggestion or you can fix it yourself
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18:02:25 <boily> hezzo38. looks great! is it possible to restructure it to be more like a man page?
18:09:23 <zzo38> It could; in such a case, such a restructuring can be written as a man page so that it can be used with man.
18:09:37 <zzo38> (and then can also be used with troff and whatever, to make printouts too)
18:10:27 <int-e> adding a man-style synopsis and perhaps two examples would probably be helpful
18:11:30 <int-e> (I don't think that boily is really concerned about the format)
18:11:38 <zzo38> These wiki articles are not really meant to be man pages (they may later even have various stuff added that would not go on a man page), although that does not mean we cannot have man pages too.
18:11:50 <zzo38> int-e: Yes, examples probably will help.
18:12:39 <zzo38> If you can think of what might be good example, we can add them. This is anyone-writing wiki, and we can add links and examples and whatever other information, including stuff you might not want in a man page.
18:15:26 <boily> int-ello. that is indeed what I meant.
18:15:32 <boily> (meanwhile, “Josephine the human zombie”. mwah ah ah.)
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18:19:37 <int-e> @google "josephine the human zombie"
18:20:35 <int-e> boily: "hmm" as in "I'm curious but not sure whether I really want to know what that is about".
18:22:12 <int-e> well it turned up http://www.uwindsor.ca/conference/zombies/309/josephine-richards
18:22:36 <zzo38> You can also tell me if there are other kind of headerless bitwise formats that you think could be fit into this program but that are not yet included, if you know of some other that may be in use.
18:24:01 <boily> int-e: playing DCSS, nothing unusual ^^
18:24:44 <lambdabot> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/
18:24:56 <int-e> wow... that wasn't the first hit *here*.
18:25:28 <int-e> Here I got "California Department of Child Support Services"
18:26:24 <int-e> . o O ( Dungean Content Scrambling System )
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18:52:31 <zzo38> I found a description of "Aamber Pegasus" computer; the ROM has four programming languages (BASIC, Pascal, Forth, and assembler), as well as three games, and a word processor, as well as the BIOS; additional software could be loaded from cassettes. Also it does video by executing NOPs on the CPU and using its instruction counter; this is another kind of cheap video.
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19:10:55 <HackEgo> partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category.
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19:48:40 <\oren\> what if the hacking *claims* are a last minute lie by Mācrōn, to make people think Le Pen is a russian spy?
19:50:12 <Taneb> \oren\, that'd have a way too high chance of backfiring, especially when he's been leading the polls
19:51:01 <Zarutian> zzo38: how big was the rom and is there a dump of it somewhere online?
19:52:33 <zzo38> Zarutian: I don't know, although I read that it has multiple banks which you must switch between to use different programs.
19:53:30 <Zarutian> zzo38: that is not that unusual. If you think about it a bit, that is what modern memory does with CAS and RAS registers.
19:54:08 <zzo38> Yes, I know it is not unusual.
19:54:26 <zzo38> (Although a small ROM would not need bank switching)
19:55:08 <\oren\> most of the NES games used bank switching
19:56:00 <zzo38> Yes, other than the mapper 0 (NROM) cartridges
20:01:38 <\oren\> ImmutableTreeListᐸElementTᐳ
20:01:44 <\oren\> ImmutableTreeList<ElementT>
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20:17:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * H3amza * New user account
20:25:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51872&oldid=51865 * H3amza * (+97) /* Introductions */
20:52:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51873 * H3amza * (+185) added initial stub. more to follow
20:54:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51874&oldid=51852 * H3amza * (+10) /* R */ added rao to list
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21:29:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51875&oldid=51873 * H3amza * (+2025) added keyword list.
21:38:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51876&oldid=51875 * H3amza * (+369) added hello world example
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22:42:03 <Sgeo> https://twitter.com/bcrypt/status/860954121242681344
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23:15:39 <Taneb> ...can't seem to log in on the wiki
23:15:57 <Taneb> Oh, I wasn't using https
23:17:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffbit => I find this confusing. Either it doesn't do what I want with raw formats, or I don't understand the description.
23:18:52 <wob_jonas> I like imagemagick's handling of raw formats: you choose separately (1) the list and order of color channels, like gray, rgb, rgba, 0bgr (2) bit depth per color channel, like 8 or 16, and
23:19:58 <wob_jonas> (3) the interlacing, as in, the different channels for the same pixel are right after one another, or a single channel for a full row is listed before the next channel starts (rare), or a single channel of the whole image is listed before the next channel starts.
23:20:56 <wob_jonas> There are also ways to handle common headerless YUV formats (which are usually page-interlaced and can have color subsampling, as in, the UV channels can have less resolution than the Y), and headerless bayer.
23:21:39 <wob_jonas> There's also ffmpeg, which does it completely differently: it only has a single parameter for the colorspace of raw images, but that one is a large enum that covers all the commonly used formats.
23:21:42 <zzo38> wob_jonas: This program is only for bitwise paletted raw formats.
23:22:04 <wob_jonas> zzo38: oh, this only does paletted? it can't do rgb (true color) at all?
23:22:11 <zzo38> To support what you are looking for another program can be written for that purpose.
23:22:30 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes. To support RGB it can be another program to implement that.
23:22:50 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no, I'll probably just keep using imagemagick or ffmpeg for that. I don't think have to go through farbfeld utils for that.
23:23:28 <zzo38> Even if you do not use it yourself, I still think it could be helpful to add a program for headerless RGB formats too.
23:25:11 <zzo38> (This program does implement Hold-And-Modify though.)
23:26:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51877&oldid=51876 * H3amza * (+1304) added ascii characterization.
23:28:39 <wob_jonas> Anyway, if ffbit only writes paletted formats, I think you should mention that in that wiki page, in the first line where it says "various headerless bitwise formats"
23:28:51 <wob_jonas> now let me try to understand what this says again, knowing that
23:29:07 <wob_jonas> maybe it should say "various headerless uncompressed paletted formats"
23:29:43 <zzo38> OK, I fixed that too now.
23:30:49 <wob_jonas> so the fourth command-line argument is the palette?
23:31:02 <zzo38> The fourth and subsequent arguments are the palette.
23:31:29 <zzo38> Yes. It does say "two or more colour specifications (as separate arguments)".
23:32:00 <wob_jonas> But then, I don't have much need for rare paletted formats.
23:32:37 <zzo38> Examples could be made to clarify it a bit, I suppose.
23:32:51 <wob_jonas> I do use 8-bit paletted often, for writing png, because png is a very widely supported format, and due to the way it works, it compresses paletted way better than rgb for most pictures.
23:33:06 <wob_jonas> But that's not raw paletted, it's compressed.
23:33:24 <zzo38> LodePNG (which ffpng uses) will automatically do that when applicable.
23:33:28 <wob_jonas> And I sometimes use black and white, but I think of that as 1-bit grayscale rather than paletted.
23:34:35 <zzo38> LodePNG will also automatically know to use 8-bits-per-channel or 16-bits-per-channel, and whether or not to include the alpha channel.
23:35:25 <wob_jonas> Right, but the hard part is computing the palette and converting a true color image to paletted, in various ways.
23:36:06 <wob_jonas> as in http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/tktview?name=e5fa2ac6e9 is the first half, and ImageMagick is quite versatile in the second part
23:36:47 <wob_jonas> supports different color metric and dithering, and those options do matter, for different images or uses you want different settings
23:37:00 <wob_jonas> some dithering vs no dithering is the most important
23:37:04 <zzo38> Yes, and I partially wrote "ff-palette" program although the algorithm that is currently implemented is not very good; if you have better idea how to fix them then please to make the contributions too!
23:37:26 <wob_jonas> no dithering is the most common setting, but sometimes dithering is important
23:37:40 <zzo38> (I do intend that the feature request mentioned there will be implemented.)
23:37:42 <\oren\> Hmm, I think I'm having a caffiene overdose
23:38:03 <wob_jonas> you already have an ff-palette ? let me look
23:38:04 <\oren\> I drank too many experimental coffee drinks
23:38:07 <zzo38> Note that to reduce the picture to the specified palette, a different program (ff-reduce) is used; the program ff-palette is only deciding the palette.
23:38:51 <zzo38> In addition to the things you specify (which are good), I would also want to be able to add into ff-palette the ability to support HAM and EHB modes too.
23:38:58 <wob_jonas> you can separate those steps in imagemagick too. (you can do it together too if you wish, but it lets you do both of them separately.
23:39:34 <wob_jonas> well, almost. the trick is that you don't give a palette as an input, just a set of colors for the palette. it is free to determine the order and remove dups and unused colors.)
23:40:50 <wob_jonas> pity there's so little docs for these farbfeld programs
23:41:54 <zzo38> Yes that is too bad; currently there is only this http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation and the "bit" converter is the only one whose link works on that documentation page. You are free to help to write the documentation if you want to though; it is anyone-writing wiki.
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23:53:08 <zzo38> Do you have a better question?
23:53:34 <wob_jonas> does this parse_color thing, like, return an uninitialized Color if the input isn't a color string, and main can call parse_color that way?
23:54:06 <zzo38> Currently it does; perhaps it should be an error message instead. I can fix that now.
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23:54:30 <wob_jonas> even if no error message, it should at least return black or some other valid color
23:54:55 <wob_jonas> that's literally a three character fix
23:56:23 <zzo38> Thank you for noting that
23:56:50 <wob_jonas> you could try using compiler warnings to catch this stuff
23:57:17 <zzo38> I could, although the compiler will also warn about many things that I do not want it to worn
23:57:27 <wob_jonas> I have some M:tG rules questions, and I wonder if I should ask them now when I'm tired and ais isn't here, or later.
23:57:38 <zzo38> You could do both!
23:57:49 <wob_jonas> zzo38: well sure, so disable all the warnings you don't want. that's what compiler switches are for.
23:59:48 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, and it is what I did (you can see at the top of the file). Still, there can be false-positives and false-negatives and so on
00:00:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51878&oldid=51877 * H3amza * (+1312) added section on functions.
00:01:50 <zzo38> What question do you have of M:tG? The rules have been improved a lot since the original version; they are much more logical and mathematically elegant and so on than it used to be, although still there are problems they will probably never fix. The change to split cards rules makes sense, and when they changed madness also it makes sense (and I have idea if a puzzle can then require a different solution in the old or new rule)
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00:03:46 <wob_jonas> Yes, the improved split card rules are much better than the old ones -- though I still sort of feel some tension because split cards are still strange rules-wise, but at the same time some split cards are nice and I want to use them (the old ones and fuse ones at least, not the new after math ones)
00:04:12 <wob_jonas> Most of the things I like in split cards could be done almost as well without split cards, mind you, but those just haven't been printed.
00:04:48 <wob_jonas> Specifically, I'd like Trial as a non-split card.
00:04:52 <zzo38> Actually I agree it is a bit strange.
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00:05:16 <wob_jonas> Mind you, it's a stupid card, it should never have been printed, but once they printed it as a split card, I'd like it as a non-split card.
00:05:48 <zzo38> As well as fuse and aftermath, there is a few card I made up having "fuseback" (meaning you can (and must) fuse it only casting from the graveyard, and then it is exiled after it leaves the stack if you do that).
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00:06:40 <wob_jonas> Fuse is fine, but I hate aftermath.
00:07:52 <zzo38> I have also seen someone made up a permanent split card.
00:09:15 <zzo38> OK if that is what you like and what you hate, but then what of fuseback?
00:09:33 <wob_jonas> Anyway, first an un-rules question. I use Blacker Lotus's ability to tear up a card and exile the pieces. Are the pieces a card? The comp rules used to have a sort of definition of what a card is, but they removed that. What happens if the opponent tries to use Cryptic Cruiser or Pull from Eternity on it?
00:10:29 <zzo38> I can use the definition of "card" that I want, but it still won't help. I think there is no answer. (It is a un-rules question anyways; such questions do not always have answers.)
00:13:14 <wob_jonas> A second un-rules question. In un-games, when a rule or effect asks you to choose a number (including for damage assignment), you can choose a half-integer. This rule can affect games even if there's no sliver-bordered card anywhere. Is this the *only* such rule difference between un-games and normal games?
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00:13:55 <alercah> wob_jonas: no, choice of colour
00:14:06 <alercah> becase avatar of me can have non-traditional colors
00:16:49 <zzo38> (Even with my definition of a "card", it is unclear whether or not tearing the card is considered as a kind-changing effect, and even if it is not (which would seem by default), it does not specify what to do if you use Pull From Eternity and stuff like that.)
00:18:14 <wob_jonas> Perhaps even creature types differ, as in you can choose Donkey as a creature type in an un-game but not in normal games, but that will rarely change anything, it only matters when almost all creature types are potentially in use in the game.
00:18:55 <zzo38> Yes. Probably in un-cards you could use more creature types too.
00:21:58 <zzo38> When playing Un-cards, there is no "proper" rules, only improper rules.
00:25:26 <zzo38> And then there are various unofficial Un-cards such as these http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/uncards.txt and also some meaningless RoboRosewater cards, and then is even more confusing to figure out how to do it!
00:25:57 <wob_jonas> I have normal (non-un) rules question too.
00:26:29 <zzo38> OK, what question?
00:26:56 <wob_jonas> wait, I'm trying to fine a sane example
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00:29:11 <wob_jonas> I have an animated Muse Vessel and an Experiment Kraj. The Vessel gets a +1/+1 counter, then I use the first Vessel ability on Kraj, then the Vessel loses all counters, then later the Vessel gets a +1/+1 counter again, then can I use the second Vessel ability of the Kraj and access the card I exiled?
00:31:56 <zzo38> I think so, if you use it on Experiment Kraj. (But you can ask again to someone else later I suppose)
00:32:10 <wob_jonas> 607.5 is probably the relevant rule
00:32:27 <zzo38> The rules are not clear enough to me it seems. But I will look at 607.5 now
00:32:50 <wob_jonas> You can get a weirder version where instead of removing the counters, the Vessel phases out then later phases in.
00:33:36 <zzo38> Yes, although it remains the same object in that case I will think. I think there are things that could be made clearer, including to consider an object's text as its AST; I think that would help a lot of things
00:34:07 <wob_jonas> Or the Vessel gets Cytoshaped to an elephant, then the shaping times out; or the Vessel gets turned to a frog.
00:34:34 <zzo38> Yes, there is stuff like that.
00:35:07 <wob_jonas> I'd like to have some comprehensive rule of how linked abilities work when an object can gain and lose it.
00:36:55 <zzo38> Yes, that would help. You could make the suggestions, maybe. My own idea would be for the link to be part of the AST of the definition of those abilities, so they are linked in that way. You would then have to make up the mathematical model of it and then it can be clear.
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00:51:26 <wob_jonas> Ok, that's all the questions I have for today. Maybe more later. Good night.
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01:53:48 <oerjan> shachaf: just checking if you overwrote anything
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02:54:03 <HackEgo> mpiler//An mpiler takes an executable file and nverts it to readable form.
02:54:23 <boily> mmmmpile you say ♪
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02:57:57 <oerjan> my haskell is becoming steadily more evil
02:58:10 <oerjan> > let f n=mapM(["<","~<~"]<$f)[1..n]!!n>>=id in f 10
03:00:22 <boily> but, what's the point of dekolmogorofying a perfectly valid and simple string?
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03:01:44 <oerjan> it's a function, not a string hth
03:01:59 <Zarutian> boily: does that involve using karnough maps in reverse?
03:02:38 <boily> oerjan: oh. uh. eeeegh. uuuuurgh. evil, I say.
03:03:09 <oerjan> also the initial <s are redundant, but makes this solution work.
03:03:11 <boily> Zarutellon. yup, untabling the stuff.
03:03:40 <boily> oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity
03:06:50 <HackEgo> indexed monad//Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.
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05:40:49 <Warrigal> Turboprop, turbojet, turbofan.
05:41:09 <Warrigal> Out of those three types of airplane engines, two of them are jet engines.
05:42:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51879&oldid=51878 * H3amza * (+14) title lowercase
05:42:23 <zzo38> Then what is the others ones?
05:44:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51880&oldid=51879 * H3amza * (+5) /* External resources */ fixed link
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06:14:30 <\oren\> zzo38: a turboprop works instead by having a gas turbine engine power a conventional aircraft propeller
06:14:54 <\oren\> they are, for some reason, popular in russia
06:15:50 <\oren\> for example, the Tu-95 Bear bombers
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06:55:22 <zzo38> As well as for sometimes helping with compression, Paeth encoding can also be used for special effects such as this one: http://zzo38computer.org/img_19/example1.png
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10:11:27 <int-e> why does https://xkcd.com/1647/ remind me of this channel
10:12:30 <Taneb> int-e, nӧone knows
10:13:10 <int-e> shachaf: so apparently there are four islands in SSR
10:19:13 <int-e> hmm, maybe not, I missed one end.
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10:24:38 <int-e> but so there is a fifth part.
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12:52:05 <boily> rdochellooooooooooooc!
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13:01:44 <rdococ> DHelloshooooooooooooooot!
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13:19:13 * DHeadshot is surprised anyone is that pleased to see him...
13:22:32 <rdococ> I'm pleased to see anyone tbh.
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14:07:36 <tromp> afk to Go tournament
14:11:48 <boily> trellomp. you play go?
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14:23:20 <rdococ> I think he has gone already
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14:45:52 <mroman> I just read the average human eats 1.8kg of food per day
14:46:05 <mroman> Then I read the average for US is 2.7kg
14:46:26 <mroman> Who eats 3kg of food per day
14:46:37 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 2m 15d 9h 28m 4s ago: tyvm
14:58:11 <boily> mrelloman. that's a pound and a third per meal. sounds way too high to me.
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15:01:08 <mroman> boily: It sounded way too high to me too.
15:01:46 <mroman> but 1.8kg sounds way more realistic than 2.7kg
15:01:55 <mroman> but it still sounds rather high
15:02:09 <mroman> but maybe that's due to poor countries who might only have low-calory foods
15:02:36 <mroman> that's what I thought.
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15:02:48 <mroman> but if the US average is 2.7kg then uhm
15:03:17 <mroman> but I could imagine that poor countries eat a bit more food but low-calory food. I haven't really managed to confirm any of this
15:10:58 <boily> mroman: that the average American citizen consumes six pounds per day doesn't surprise me much. every time I cross the borders I get fatter :/
15:11:48 <mroman> how the hell can you eat 3kg :(
15:11:59 <int-e> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2011/12/31/144478009/the-average-american-ate-literally-a-ton-this-year <-- the funny thing is... the numbers in the article don't match up at all with the numbers in the link to the US D.A. site. Summing their numbers results in a much more reasonable 1.3kg estimate, excluding drinks.
15:12:00 <mroman> 100g meat, 100g rice/pasta, 100g vegetable
15:12:03 <mroman> that's a standard meal
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15:12:52 <mroman> 2.7kg per day sounds like complete bullshit
15:14:21 <int-e> mroman: the number is almost certainly bullshit. I bet the "americans eat 1t of food per year" headline is the actual source for that data.
15:14:53 <int-e> Now... if you include drinks... that changes the picture entirely. Perhaps they did that.
15:16:47 <mroman> that would fit a ton almost perfectly
15:17:42 <int-e> (the 1.3kg number isn't very exact. The tables measure vegetable intake in cups... useless.)
15:27:34 <mroman> 1.3kg sounds reasonable though
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15:43:43 <FireFly> huh, I never thought about it
15:43:57 <FireFly> I never thought about how much I drink compared to how much I eat
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15:56:39 <Warrigal> int-e: didn't you know that cups are the new SI unit for vegetables?
15:57:35 <Warrigal> The base units are the meter (length), the kilogram (mass), the second (time), the amp (current), the kelvin (temperature), the mole (amount of substance), the candela (luminous intensity), and the cup (vegetables).
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16:11:16 <rdococ> is it like drinking cups, or...?
16:11:44 <rdococ> also, fruit should be measured in saucers
16:11:53 <rdococ> and meat should be measured in coffee machines
16:12:26 <oerjan> and non sequiturs should be measured in orangutans
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16:31:27 <boily> Warrigello, hellørjan, hellorkin.
16:32:00 <boily> rdococ: a cup is eight fluid ounces, but it gets rounded to eg. 250 ml in Canada, and 200 ml in Japan.
16:32:13 <boily> (there are other places that do rounding, but I forget which.)
16:32:51 <boily> the main difference between recipes here and France is that we do (almost) everything by volume, and they do it by weight.
16:34:47 <boily> that, and oven temperatures. 350 is natural. 175 makes no sense.
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17:31:28 <doesthiswork> regular expressions are state machines. loops are also state machines. Why should they have different syntax?
17:34:29 <doesthiswork> I don't know, I may have had too much to drink
17:36:07 <doesthiswork> but it looks as though there are two states to a loop, looping and finished
17:43:28 <Phantom_Hoover> e.g. int i = 0; while(0) { i++; } has infinitely many states
17:45:56 <zzo38> Can a variant of a regular expression to be made where it is possible to define infinite families of states?
17:46:09 <doesthiswork> I'll try pushing all the infinite out of the model and calling it inputs
17:47:10 <doesthiswork> so the machinery puts it into a finite number of equivalency classes
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18:17:25 <Phantom_Hoover> this is literally the difference between being turing complete and not
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18:43:21 <HackEgo> fungot//fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
18:44:09 * APic has no Hiccup at the Moment.
18:45:56 <boily> well, your nick is difficult to porthello...
18:48:28 <boily> rdochelloc. HeyPic is good.
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20:14:13 <\oren\> I lost several pounds being in japan for only two weeks
20:14:25 <\oren\> everyhting is tiny in japan
20:15:29 <\oren\> also, they don't add sugar to everything. a "black iced coffee" is something that only exists in japan to my knowledge
20:23:43 <boily> oh. I thought you were still there.
20:23:46 <\oren\> I should see if starbucks even sells unsweetened iced coffee
20:24:16 <boily> did you enjoy your time over there?
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23:06:26 <Sgeo> "NꙮW WITH MꙮRE MULTIꙮCULAR ꙮ
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00:12:12 <HackEgo> te sting//This is horrible?
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00:43:15 <tromp> yes, boily, I play Go
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00:50:15 <zzo38> Somehow it seems that some pictures will be compressed better with PNG if a small window size is used, and some work better with larger window sizes. Do you know why?
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01:11:26 <\oren\> HEY! NEW GAME +! I love when games have new game +
01:13:08 <\oren\> I wish more games would have new game + tho
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01:14:44 <zzo38> OK, although is not something that interests me much.
01:15:33 <zzo38> I just prefer to have different options that can be set.
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01:54:56 <HackEgo> cpressey//cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse.
01:55:31 <HackEgo> 3512:2013-08-28 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/mouse/mousse/\' wisdom/cpressey \ 2973:2013-05-29 <Phantom_Hoovër> learn cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mouse. \ 2967:2013-05-28 <oerjän> learn cpressey has invented more esolangs than you can shake a stick at. Also he\'s older than the universe hth.
01:57:09 <HackEgo> 1/1:warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. It sometimes pretends to be a human. \ asternology//Asternology is the art of predicting what happened in the past. \ impomatic//impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database. \ heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps.
01:57:57 <boily> Dingo dango dongo ♪
01:58:36 <boily> wait. you've been more warrigaling than tswetting lately. back to your roots?
01:59:33 <shachaf> Did you read _Mathematics Made Difficult_?
02:04:57 <izabera> https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/b7i3u/mathematics_made_difficult_pdf/
02:05:23 <shachaf> Though I think there's file smaller than 20MB with the same content.
02:11:57 <Warrigal> It's because I've temporarily switched to a different client.
02:18:05 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/math-diff-2-4.txt
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02:24:42 * hppavilion[0] . o O ( I wonder if 'https' should be given a shorter alias- such as 'htts' or 'htps'- so that link shorteners like it more )
02:35:43 <izabera> how about using httpseverywhere
02:37:11 <zzo38> I think "https" is fine; it is not too long.
02:37:41 <zzo38> (If they wanted to write "httpsecure" then it would be too long, though)
02:38:44 <shachaf> What about "hypertexttransferprotocolsecure:"?
02:41:47 <boily> SecuredHyperDocumentElementTransferProtocolBuilderFactoryAdapter
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03:25:00 <HackEgo> mibicoin calcoin creptimisplcoin redclcoin bfinjaquatingcoin gencoin mulacoin trindcoin cablystackmildcoin bookcoin unland.nexpcoin kolmonozcoin dracoin nubinocoin stocoin pograissigcoin arbazcoin autobencecoin tfriecoin eatcoin
03:26:29 <shachaf> oh man, unicode has been jammed up
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04:46:33 <zzo38> I made up list of several new GURPS spells such as Red Shift, Blue Shift, Heavy Gravity, Seek Air, Seek Fire, Write, Smite Mages, False Aura, Delay Spell, Berserk, Vampire Transfer, Mirror Link, Feign Death, and others. Do you like this?
04:47:48 <zzo38> Yes, kind of. I will have to see if it is good enough.
05:06:37 <zzo38> I also wrote about some perks and options to allow linking spells to body part other than hands, such as bite, feet, striker, and spines. For Missile spells there is also the perks for additional options being breath attacks and gaze attacks.
05:06:43 <zzo38> And also spells that complement each other (such as Red Shift and Blue Shift); each defaults to the other at -5.
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05:38:13 <zzo38> You can write the new spell too if you have the good idea please.
05:55:59 <zzo38> I think that farbfeld is simpler than Netpbm and that Hamster archive simpler than tape archive. Isn't it?
05:57:30 <izabera> yeah that's a common complaint about netpbm
05:58:07 <zzo38> Yes, looking to me too. That is why Hunhold invented farbfeld, and why I use it.
06:05:32 <izabera> i'm assuming you also fancy their beautifully designed video format that can store a whole 113s in 100gb
06:06:22 <zzo38> You can see this document I wrote http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffpng it list all of the options of the PNG encoder. I added some since last time too.
06:08:13 <pikhq> Some of the NetPBM features are rather *odd* for an image format, and also really easy to not implement.
06:08:24 <pikhq> For instance, the header can have comments.
06:08:28 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I know is odd
06:08:37 <pikhq> And, a single file can have multiple images in it!
06:08:56 <shachaf> sounds easy to implement if you use a c compiler hth
06:09:10 <shachaf> I'm thinking of a different format.
06:09:30 <zzo38> Yes, you can have multiple pages. I have written dvipbm which does that though; you can use it to rasterize all of the pages and then send to printer driver in order to print.
06:09:55 <izabera> shachaf: you just have to ignore everything from # to \n
06:10:28 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
06:11:23 <zzo38> (I did write my own rasterizer program to make a print out, because I did not find the ones that come with the computer to be suitable. Do you like this?)
06:17:06 <zzo38> Even the express mode of ffpng compresses better than some other PNG encoders, although not always. An option to copy chunks from another PNG file is still missing though.
06:19:02 <zzo38> Do you know if any picture compression format has options to store the picture rotated or flipped in case that would improve the compression?
06:21:11 <zzo38> PNG does sometimes compress better when the picture is rotated or flipped or mirrored.
06:21:41 <zzo38> The document of FLIF seem not completed so I cannot see if it has any such feature or not.
06:23:00 <pikhq> Huh. I've not heard of such a thing.
06:23:09 <pikhq> This could just be ignorance, but still.
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06:31:13 <HackEgo> Mr2001: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
06:34:15 <shachaf> Hmm, yellow looks pretty bad in Freenode webchat.
06:34:31 <shachaf> I'll have to remember to avoid relcome for those cases.
06:35:20 <HackEgo> 177) <zzo38> Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
06:36:43 <shachaf> I played a text-based adventure game recently.
06:36:50 <shachaf> Wait, no, I was just thinking about playing one.
06:37:05 <shachaf> And then I played one or two games that involved clicking on words and were pretty linear.
06:37:52 <\oren\> Have you played VA-11 Hall-A yet? it invoves clicking on words
06:38:47 <zzo38> Make up some text adventure game using TAVERN. The standard adventure include file is not yet completed (and is hardly done) but hopefully can be done without entirely doing by myself only.
06:38:52 <shachaf> I'm not a fan of clicking.
06:39:21 <\oren\> although it also involves mixing drinks
06:39:43 <Mr2001> speaking of text adventures and esolangs, do you like this: http://inky.org/if/snap/index.html
06:42:38 <shachaf> This is HQ9+ for interactive fiction?
06:42:57 <shachaf> And also for running HQ9+ programs.
06:45:23 <shachaf> I've already written several excellent games.
06:45:29 <shachaf> I can't wait to find out what they're about.
06:45:41 <Mr2001> it really does make programming a snap!
06:46:14 <shachaf> You could make a wiki page about it on esolangs.org
06:46:37 <shachaf> It doesn't seem very interesting as a language, though.
06:47:10 <shachaf> But maybe I haven't explored it enough yet.
06:47:48 <Mr2001> ZIL is more interesting but probably doesn't fit the definition of esoteric
06:47:52 <shachaf> But maybe it's a joke with multiple levels.
06:49:20 <zzo38> ZIL seem like good. I don't know any programming in ZIL, but I do know ZAP.
06:49:26 <shachaf> And I tried Inform 7 and didn't like it.
06:49:39 <shachaf> But that was more than a decade ago, so who knows.
06:49:46 <zzo38> The new VM is TAVERN, see if you like that one?
06:50:20 <Mr2001> Inform 7 is pretty sweet. if you didn't like it then, you probably won't like it now, though.
06:50:36 <zzo38> I don't like read only programming languages such as Inform 7
06:50:43 <shachaf> Video is where it's at, if you want to maximize user engagement.
06:50:53 <Mr2001> the thing people notice most about it is that it looks like English, but IMO what makes it interesting is that it introduces new concepts that work well in the domain.
06:50:59 <shachaf> And pictures with text overlaid in Impact font.
06:51:41 <shachaf> Oh, no, I did play a text-based adventure game recently!
06:51:50 <shachaf> I can't remember what it was called. It was very short, and it had a ghost.
06:51:54 <Mr2001> relations, object description expressions, scenes, rulebooks
06:51:59 <shachaf> It was an entry to a competition.
06:52:18 <zzo38> I have written a few Z-machine implementations including ZORKMID and JSZM, and started writing one for Famicom. However, there are probably some things I should rewrite, such as maybe the instruction dispatch loop should be put into the zero page to use self-modifying codes.
06:52:26 <shachaf> Maybe you know the one I mean?
06:52:29 <zzo38> (This implementation for Famicom is called Famizork)
06:52:35 <zzo38> Do you know any Famicom programming?
06:53:56 <shachaf> Mr2001: I only recently realized about Spider and Web that gur ernfba lbh pna'g fnl "gnatb" hagvy gur evtug zbzrag vf gung gur ibvpr zbqhyr vfa'g ba gur gnoyr hagvy gung zbzrag.
06:54:03 <shachaf> It should have been obvious in retrospect.
06:54:16 <shachaf> (Don't read if you haven't played the game, I guess.)
06:54:17 <Mr2001> so you might see a statement like "if an evil man (called the villain) carries a weapon (called the sidearm) that contains at least 6 unused bullets, ...", which searches the world model for such a set of related objects and captures them in variables
06:55:16 <shachaf> Do you think these abstractions merit a new language?
06:55:48 <Mr2001> well, the goal was to make writing IF more like writing a story and less like writing a program
06:55:58 <shachaf> One thing I've wondered about is what a language that could be used on cards in a game like Magic: The Gathering would be like.
06:56:15 <zzo38> I have thought of stuff about Magic: the Gathering like that too.
06:56:28 <shachaf> I don't care about it being like English -- in fact I'd prefer not, though you can generate English text from it -- but it would need to be a very odd language to support the sorts of things Magic: The Gathering cards do.
06:56:35 <shachaf> Any card can change pretty much anything.
06:56:49 <Mr2001> rulebooks are pretty good for that
06:56:52 <zzo38> One thing I thought is to use a AST that might look something like: [:counter [:target :spell]]
06:56:57 <Mr2001> I started porting Fluxx to I7 once
06:57:11 <shachaf> (It doesn't have to be exactly that game -- I think you can simplify it significantly if you're willing to break backwards compatibility and have less complicated but still interesting interactions.)
06:58:40 <zzo38> What I thought of is to invent a new literate programming language for writing the rules, and then write the rules using that in a mathematically precise way.
06:58:42 <Mr2001> a rulebook is basically an array of functions that are sorted through some complex and overrideable logic at compile time, that can each have conditions that check whether they apply to the current situation, and can change the state for future rules or exit the rulebook with some outcome
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06:59:52 <zzo38> (This is the use of literate programming; you can now make a book to write the rules of the game, which is the same book as the program which is the implementation, which make rules more clearly.)
07:01:04 <Mr2001> so for MtG, you might have a rulebook for each phase of the turn (or probably some finer grain), and the definition of each card could contribute rules to various rulebooks and define any ordering relationships
07:01:59 <shachaf> I haven't played that game in a while. I'm not up to date on all the latest innovations.
07:02:45 <zzo38> I had other ideas about rewriting rules of Magic: the Gathering though anyways, including concept of "persistent properties", which include initial text, owner, and kind. Text is meaning the AST.
07:03:13 <HackEgo> 1/2:freefull//FreeFull the Unpronounceable is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ syntax//Syntax is just a subset of grammar. \ yorick//We know nothing about yorick, alas. \ welp//welp is humid kelp, and not at all related to toes, their hairs, and generic requests for TWHes and TDHes. \ ol//OL stands for Origina
07:03:18 <HackEgo> 2/2:l Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList.
07:03:27 <zzo38> Mr2001: Do you know any Famicom programming?
07:03:55 <shachaf> Famicom is approximately NES, right?
07:04:06 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, it uses the same chipset.
07:04:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:glados//Hello, and again, welcome to the Aperture Science Computer Aided Internet Relay Chat & Enrichment Center. Please enjoy your stay at #esoteric, because you will never leave. \ piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ of//Of this incident we shall never speak again. \ tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so plea
07:04:29 <HackEgo> 2/2:se stop using them. That would help. \ rntz//rntz is a classically-trained logician known for his constructive criticism.
07:04:56 <zzo38> You can see http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ it is a copy of the official rules of Magic: the Gathering; they also have on there all of the changes to the rules since Ravnica.
07:05:06 <zzo38> So you can see what has been changed each time.
07:05:17 <shachaf> I didn't play in Ravnica. I first started playing in Return to Ravnica.
07:05:35 <zzo38> Since some time ago, I have looked at every change.
07:05:38 <HackEgo> Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name.
07:05:41 <zzo38> shachaf: They have that too.
07:06:28 <zzo38> You can see on http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/rules-changes/ the lists of all changes between any version and the previous version.
07:06:57 <shachaf> Once upon a time I knew the rules of this game reasonably well.
07:07:07 <shachaf> I got a Rules Advisor certification.
07:07:08 <zzo38> (They also link to the official explanations from Wizards of the Coast, in the cases where this is available.)
07:07:20 <shachaf> Now it looks like it's been discocntinued.
07:08:25 <zzo38> I have not actually played Magic: the Gathering in many years, but have still kept track of all of the rule changes.
07:08:33 <shachaf> Mr2001: Did you play Factorio?
07:09:37 <HackEgo> 1/3://everyone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) \ a
07:09:54 <HackEgo> 2/3:tm//An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info. \ palate//Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink. \ hand injury//Hand injuries are surprisingly common among webcomic writers, see eg. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2314 or http://
07:10:07 <HackEgo> xxd: wisdom/spout: No such file or directory
07:10:16 <HackEgo> 0000000: 032f 2f03 3038 6576 0331 3465 7279 6f6e .//.08ev.14eryon \ 0000010: 653a 2057 656c 636f 6d65 2074 6f20 7468 e: Welcome to th \ 0000020: 6520 696e 7465 726e 6174 696f 6e61 6c20 e international \ 0000030: 0331 3268 7562 2066 6f72 2065 736f 7465 .12hub for esote \ 0000040: 7269 6303 3134 2070 726f 0330 3367 7261 ric.14 pro.03gra \ 00000
07:11:05 <shachaf> I declare this too confusing.
07:11:52 <HackEgo> 3/3:www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯//¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°_o)/¯ of urbandictionary
07:12:00 <zzo38> I have also invented many of my own Magic: the Gathering cards, including both proper and Un-cards
07:13:12 <zzo38> Did you make up some of such thing too please?
07:13:41 <shachaf> Did you invent any planeswalker cards?
07:14:12 <zzo38> I have had some ideas but not been able to make anything that seems reasonable.
07:14:44 <zzo38> (I had ideas including even Aura planeswalkers and planeswalker lands.)
07:15:04 <shachaf> What about a planeswalker with plainswalk?
07:15:41 <zzo38> I have not done, although it could be, if it were a planeswalker creature. (If is not a creature then plainswalk is not so helpful)
07:16:04 <shachaf> Well, another card might make it into a creature.
07:16:19 <zzo38> Yes, I know that too.
07:17:06 <zzo38> It can make the list http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php?do=list of the card I made up (although I also had many additional ideas not listed on there), and also the Un-cards game is http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/uncards.txt too.
07:17:20 <shachaf> For a long time I thought the way you cast a spell in Magic: The Gathering was to put karma into your karma pool, and then cast the spell with it.
07:18:10 <zzo38> O, that is how you thought. OK
07:18:51 <shachaf> You should make up some cards that, to be used, require people to learn obscure rules.
07:19:23 <pikhq> I mean, they already exist, so there's precedent. :)
07:19:44 <zzo38> I have sometimes come up with such ideas, although not really for that reason; it just happens to turn out obscurely!
07:20:22 <zzo38> O, that is what you mean. That does not seems the things to base the design on to me, I think?
07:20:26 <shachaf> How can you make up a card that requires the player to know this rule?
07:20:37 <shachaf> I know you can do it as an interaction of a few cards.
07:21:02 <zzo38> If it turns out obscurely though I don't really care so much I think it is OK.
07:22:13 <zzo38> Do you like any of this custom cards? Maybe you can make up a new one too.
07:22:38 <shachaf> Maybe you should use Hack instead of PHP for your custom card website.
07:23:53 <zzo38> It is already PHP though. I wanted to use SQL, but, it doesn't do as a CGI so instead is a PHP code that includes some SQL codes. This SQL database can be downloaded too though if you want to download it and query it by your own SQL commands.
07:25:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Is that a question? It does not look like a very good question to me.
07:26:01 <shachaf> "If it is any player's birthday today, that player wins the game."
07:26:16 <shachaf> What happens if it's the birthday of more than one player?
07:26:43 <zzo38> Then all of those player are win the game.
07:27:20 <shachaf> Who wins the ante in that case?
07:28:34 <zzo38> The rule would be probably that you end in a draw, and so the owners of ante is not affected in that case I would think.
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07:30:02 <zzo38> (Although rules about ante is another rule I wanted to change anyways; the current rule has many kinds of problems. I have seen one suggestion where the ante zone is shared across subgames, and I like that idea, although it does not fix everything, I still like that idea; someone even explained a way to use that feature to make a puzzle!)
07:30:14 <shachaf> What about "Everybody is the Winner!", though?
07:31:06 <zzo38> Well, I suppose there is no answer. Or perhaps those objects are then having multiple owners.
07:32:07 <zzo38> Some of the Un-cards are just unanswerable.
07:32:48 <shachaf> But what if you played an Un-card enchantment that said "All Un-cards are answerable."?
07:33:56 <zzo38> Then you would have to make up a strange answer, I suppose. I don't know!
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07:41:30 <zzo38> There is no proper rule in Un-cards, only improper rules. But, many people have tried to argue how R&D's Secret Lair affects many things. There is something I thought of with using with the old Lightning Bolt, that it seem nobody on Gatherer has ever considered, which is to use it to damage all nontoken permanents that are creatures or planeswalkers.
07:42:51 <shachaf> If I said a function was a "proper injection", would you know what I meant?
07:44:04 <zzo38> No, at least not yet.
07:44:18 <shachaf> I mean a function which is an injection but not a bijection.
07:44:20 <zzo38> In context it might be clear though.
07:44:44 <zzo38> I did think of that, but still I did not know for sure.
07:45:25 <shachaf> What if I said "proper monomorphism"?
07:46:12 <zzo38> Again I am not sure, but would try to think of something similar.
07:47:00 <shachaf> What if I said "proper subobject"?
07:47:04 <zzo38> In context it may become clear though; I think if you used "proper injection" in a context like that it would be clear what it is meaning.
07:47:31 <zzo38> I don't know quite all of the mathematics, and I don't know what "subobject" is being
07:47:36 <zzo38> (But, I can look it up)
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07:47:55 <shachaf> https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/subobject
07:48:02 <zzo38> (So, it does not matter so much that I will not know.)
07:48:19 <shachaf> I usually think a subobject is a monomorphism. But it's actually an equivalence class of monomorphisms. Why is that?
07:48:30 <shachaf> I mean an isomorphism class.
07:50:35 <zzo38> I read it, and I do not know the answer of your question.
07:51:04 <zzo38> (Especially now that I am a bit tired, I don't know. I don't know that one either right now.)
07:52:14 <shachaf> Do you like quotient objects?
07:52:55 <zzo38> These questions are I just don't know at this time; I am a bit tired now, it is late time now.
07:54:40 <zzo38> I did get recently a book from library, which is The Art of Computer Programming volume 7 fascicle 0. I like this book.
07:55:22 <shachaf> If you find errors, you can get a check from the author.
07:55:44 <zzo38> And I do know about that payment for errors.
07:55:54 <shachaf> Mine wasn't for an error, though.
07:56:10 <shachaf> He thought it wasn't an error, and then he called up Ken Thompson and he agreed that it wasn't an error.
07:56:25 <shachaf> So then he put in a «"rant"», and I got a check for that.
07:57:12 <shachaf> kmc: you should fuzz TeX with afl and see whether you can get a check
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11:40:31 <lambdabot> CYUL 081000Z 26008KT 30SM FEW015 FEW035 BKN200 02/M01 A2974 RMK CF1SC1CC5 CF TR SLP074
11:41:00 <lambdabot> ENVA 081020Z 30011KT 9999 FEW045 BKN050 05/M05 Q1028 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 29011KT
11:41:12 <lambdabot> KATL 080952Z 28004KT 10SM CLR 11/06 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T01110061
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13:04:40 <yorick> shachaf: what's happening
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17:31:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51881&oldid=51855 * Mayube * (+1007) /* Operators */
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17:53:12 <zzo38> Do you like my new kind of the VLQ? The new kind is like the ordinary VLQ but if the high bit is set then you must subtract 127 instead of subtract 128.
17:55:27 <zzo38> Some numbers can encode shorter and the redundancy of leading zeroes is avoided too.
17:55:52 <shachaf> I was just talking to someone about some sort of encoding the other day.
17:56:11 <shachaf> It was this: https://github.com/mortehu/libcolumnfile/blob/master/src/columnfile.h
17:58:01 <zzo38> I think it can be good for some kinds of data perhaps.
18:00:26 <zzo38> It still has the redundant encoding though.
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18:27:19 <Mr2001> that sounds equivalent to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-length_quantity#Removing_Redundancy
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18:39:42 <int-e> shachaf: wah, there's a level without a grill
18:41:40 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr-dead-end.jpg
18:42:01 <shachaf> int-e: It's not hidden behind the column or anything?
18:42:07 <int-e> (but I have half a dozen unsolved levels left on *that* island.
18:42:27 <shachaf> I should get this running again.
18:43:33 <int-e> I guess those glowing pixels do something, I have not seen those anywhere before, I think.
18:49:18 <int-e> that half dozen is actually 9 or 10
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19:02:14 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
19:04:20 <hppavilion[1]> I kind of want to design a programming language where the grammar can't be parsed to an Abstract Syntax Tree, but rather an Abstract Syntax Digraph
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19:18:29 <zzo38> I am not sure how that is going to work, although RDF does something a bit similar (although not quite).
19:29:26 <int-e> I imagine you could glue paper strips together
19:31:02 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I know how to represent it in a computer, the issue is just how to make a proper syntax :P
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19:37:00 <shachaf> int-e: I looked up that puzzle because I'm not on that island yet and can't run the game in the near future, but now I'm disappointed that I looked it up because it's a good puzzle.
19:38:22 <int-e> I have an idea or two, but first I want to find out whether solving the remaining puzzles on the island changes anything...
19:38:38 <int-e> ...which I'll get around to eventually.
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19:39:31 <int-e> but thanks for the info that it is a puzzle
19:40:19 <int-e> and sorry for tempting you to spoil it for you...
19:40:29 <int-e> ...though I didn't intend that.
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21:01:03 <zzo38> Here I made a list of some of the composite modes in my Farbfeld Utilities program: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-composite (There are a lot more!) Do you think this is good? You can tell me if there is other stuff too that should be had, and see whether or not it is already implemented but not documented, or if it is not implemented either.
21:01:35 <int-e> wob_jonas: why would you do such a thing?
21:03:57 <zzo38> There is the ability to treat the alpha channel as the depth buffer if you want to, as well.
21:04:19 <zzo38> And there is another mode to treat each pixel as a quaternion.
21:14:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: in that docs, are these only the special modes that aren't composed from a way to handle alpha and a way to handle opacity?
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21:35:33 <HackEgo> welcome.bork//Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: <http://isulungs.oorg/>. (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon IFnet oor DELnet.)
21:35:53 <HackEgo> We know nothing about yorick, alas.
21:36:14 <zzo38> wob_jonas: These are some of them, anyways. The other ones with numbers 64 and higher are composed of different options for handling opacity and handling colours and so on, and I have not listed any of those.
21:36:17 <HackEgo> 1/1:istr//istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc. \ eurovision//Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing. \ citation//Citation needed \ beethoven's ninth symphony//Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is a package most commonly installed in order to convert ODE files into JOY files.
21:36:50 <zzo38> If you know how the document should be written for such thing, then you could add those modes.
21:37:20 <wob_jonas> zzo38: right. those ones are combined from a duff-porter mode that handles the transparency, and a composition mode that handles the color value
21:38:10 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes. Those ones you are talking about are all numbered 64 and higher.
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21:41:00 <wob_jonas> though I don't quite get how those work. the low bits control the composition modes, that's clear, and those dense few lines in the definitions of F and FF somehow handle the duff-porter thing.
21:41:07 <wob_jonas> But aren't there like 16 duff-porter modes?
21:41:46 <zzo38> They aren't only duff-porter modes; it includes many other kinds too.
21:43:53 <wob_jonas> oh right, there are 2*2*3 modes: one bit controls whether the places where the destination image is transparent should be transparent or get the color of the source image, one bit controls the places where the source image is transparent,
21:44:25 <wob_jonas> and one trit controls whether the places where both images are opaque becomes transparent, or get composed, or get composed in reverse.
21:46:54 <wob_jonas> Of these, the first two bits are controlled by bits 9 and 10 in the mode in ff-composite,
21:52:55 <wob_jonas> I think you don't have a swapped composition mode; but if you clear bit 8 and set the low bits to 2, that should make it behave like the duff-porter modes that clear the intersection.
21:54:35 <zzo38> I based it on the description that is used in the SVG documentation.
21:56:21 <wob_jonas> And as for the low bits, 0 and 1 are source and destination, 3 is saturating add (useful for composing an antialiased polygon mash to a black background if you know the polygons are pairwise non-intersecting), 23 and 28 are subtract,
21:57:36 <wob_jonas> (low bits) is darken only, 7 is lighten only, 4 is multiply, 5 is screen, and there's more.
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21:57:52 <zzo38> You should edit that linked wiki page if you think you know how to best describe them.
21:58:09 <HackEgo> 10799:2017-04-22 <oerjän> learn Citation needed \ 6816:2016-02-11 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn citation/needed
21:58:38 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I'm not comfortable with reading your code and I'm lazy to test this stuff now. I'd probably make lots of errors.
21:59:20 <zzo38> Although if mistakes are made it is not too bad since they can be fixed.
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22:05:09 <wob_jonas> zzo38: which ff utility generates a picture with a uniform argb color, given the color and the size as inputs?
22:06:09 <zzo38> You can use ff-gradient with the width, height, "h", and the color.
22:06:34 <zzo38> You can also use ff-chess with the color twice. There are other possibilities too.
22:06:39 <wob_jonas> I see. That can be useful as a compositing background
22:07:12 <zzo38> Yes, although if you want the usual kind of composition against a solid background, ff-back may be better.
22:08:44 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I want composition of multiple smaller images to a larger solid background, the background might be opaque of some color or transparent.
22:09:06 <wob_jonas> ff-back doesn't help, because it can't enlarge an image
22:09:17 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: I haven't used nom, sorry
22:09:19 <zzo38> In that case then yes, just using ff-gradient or ff-chess to make the background can help.
22:09:21 <kmc> are you using it for something?
22:09:54 <Phantom_Hoover> i started on that cs171 course for the sake of doing something
22:10:22 <Phantom_Hoover> so about 10 seconds into writing an objfile parser i was overwhelmed with the thought that "surely this is why we invented general abstract parser nonsense"
22:10:57 <wob_jonas> Ah, ff-bright is the one that does gamma correction.
22:11:37 <zzo38> Yes, and http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation has a list with short descriptions (not all of the individual documents per programs exist yet though, but some do).
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22:12:21 <wob_jonas> I still mostly feel like I don't want to spend much on ff utils, because ImageMagick does almost everything with an interface that I find more convenient, and for the few things missing, I'd rather fix ImageMagick when I need it, since it already has lots of useful APIs.
22:12:39 <Phantom_Hoover> from my brief experience with rust the #1 problem is that there is the obvious way of doing it, and a shorter, cleaner, more robust way that you'll be able to figure out after reading just a few more docs
22:13:10 <zzo38> Well, ImageMagick can have things to be fixed too, so if you know how to contribute to that then you can do that too.
22:13:43 <wob_jonas> I don't necessarily have to contribute (as in, send code back to the mainstream), just use their apis.
22:15:35 <zzo38> O, OK. (Still, if there is something missing, it could help to mention to them at least. Same as true with my farbfeld programs; it could help to mention at least if something seem missing. One thing is that I think ImageMagick does not even support farbfeld, although it seem to me that for completeness it probably should.)
22:15:45 <wob_jonas> And while there are some stupid problems with ImageMagick, as in, sometimes their programs are buggy for no apparent reason, they're just not enough problems to override the convenience I get most of the time.
22:16:04 <Phantom_Hoover> didn't imagemagick have some really ridiculous security hole
22:16:44 <wob_jonas> PH: many programs that handle like hundreds of formats with various plugins from different sources have security holes. I don't know why people pick on IM in particular.
22:16:52 <Phantom_Hoover> a stand-out work in the wonderful medium of vuln branding
22:17:06 <zzo38> Well, if the program does what you need to do then you can use that and it can work. However, I write program using farbfeld instead, and now it can be another alternative.
22:17:10 <wob_jonas> They can hate all the browsers or mail agents that let you open files from the internet with default-assigned applications instead.
22:17:53 <zzo38> wob_jonas: And it can avoid that problem too because the programs to alter the pictures are different from the program to encode/decode, and each one only does one, so it avoids that, at least.
22:18:11 <zzo38> (Also, you only need to download and compile the stuff you need, instead of everything.)
22:18:15 <wob_jonas> PH: also, in practice, I've seen ffmpeg misbehave in way more serious ways for untrusted input files than I've seen ImageMagick do so.
22:18:31 <wob_jonas> This may depend on how you use them of course.
22:19:20 <zzo38> I have never used ffmpeg so I don't know, although I also haven't tried using improper input files with ImageMagick either, so I don't know that either.
22:19:31 <wob_jonas> zzo38: IM can be configured easily for which plugins to use, and for each input, I can tell what format to expect, in which case it won't try another plugin.
22:20:20 <zzo38> Yes, I know it can be specified for ImageMagick what format to use.
22:20:43 <wob_jonas> zzo38: well, it might be because I open video files only in ffmpeg (IM can open them with the ffmpeg plugin too, but only if the whole raw data fits in virtual memory, which is not a typical use case), whereas I open images in both,
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22:21:42 <wob_jonas> and video formats are more prone to problems because people never bother to use newer image formats than age old jpeg and png, but they do all sorts of new video formats with new more efficient hardware-optimized encoders and decoders all the time, so it's no surprise we get bugs in those.
22:22:30 <wob_jonas> If people distributed images in all sorts of rare formats and I tried to open those, then sure, I would get the same problems. But I only get images in rare formats when they're raw images straight from consumer cameras.
22:23:24 <wob_jonas> I would like people to use newer image formats, but it's not easy to make people change what works.
22:23:58 <wob_jonas> (and by "newer", I mean 15 year old formats as opposed to 30 year old ones)
22:24:13 <wob_jonas> (at least. ideally even develop newer ones.)
22:24:41 <zzo38> I know of FLIF, and have had some of my own ideas too for making a compressed pictures format too
22:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> seems an obvious case where there's no serious pressure towards more efficient image transfer
22:25:15 <wob_jonas> (and of course there are all sorts of new image formats that aren't really intended for final distribution, but mainly for a single image editor, but those don't count here.)
22:26:01 <wob_jonas> PH: this is mostly under control for the people who make browsers. if the major browsers decide to support a video format or an image format, then people will use it.
22:26:20 <zzo38> Well, there is then also farbfeld, which also (in my opinion) aren't really intended for final distribution either, but not only for a single image editor but for all image editors!
22:26:46 <wob_jonas> but currently they don't support anything but jpeg and png and gif and a few older ones that are obsoleted by those
22:27:12 <Phantom_Hoover> i suppose gifs were ubiquitous until a couple of years ago and are only slowly being displaced
22:27:24 <wob_jonas> zzo38: sure. IM has two formats intended for only IM too. gimp has its own save format, and so does corel's two image editors and adobe's two image editors and whatever.
22:27:53 <wob_jonas> PH: gifs these days are mostly used as a sort of video replacement. people no longer use gifs for static images, because png is better for that.
22:28:26 <zzo38> Yes, although they are intended only for those programs; farbfeld can be use for hopefully any encoder/decoder/editors rather than only one.
22:30:20 <wob_jonas> yes, and obviously imagemagick and ffmpeg have plugins for lots of image format, and so does gimp and krita and the adobe and corel editors, to various extents,
22:31:07 <zzo38> Yes they certainly do. Someone even made a farbfeld plugin for use with GIMP, but I think is not very good because it can only read/write files and not pipes.
22:31:09 <wob_jonas> and when they're missing plugins, then you chain two different programs with some raw format between them, only you sometimes have to handle metadata by hand in that case.
22:31:50 <wob_jonas> And the same thing happens with sound and video too. I've chained different image software, different video software, and different audio software at least once.
22:32:26 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: WebP is a modern image format.
22:32:48 <wob_jonas> fizzie: hmm, there's some truth in that
22:32:52 <zzo38> One of the things I did intend to add in future into the PNG encoder is to be able to use metadata from another PNG file.
22:33:21 <zzo38> It seem to me that FLIF is work better than WebP though, isn't it?
22:33:42 <wob_jonas> It's possible that some video formats are modern image formats too.
22:34:47 <fizzie> Well, WebP can do lossy as well. No idea how lossless WebP and FLIF compare.
22:34:48 <wob_jonas> fizzie: but webp isn't _yet_ supported by major browsers, right? it's just a good candidate that might be in the future
22:35:11 <fizzie> Not all major browsers, no.
22:35:29 <fizzie> And I think Mozilla may have abandoned their plans.
22:35:53 <wob_jonas> Is there software yet that lets me compress images to webp in such a way that a small part (a few rectangular ranges) of the image is compressed in better quality than most?
22:36:36 <wob_jonas> Because that's what I really want from an image format, but JPEG makes it really hard, because you can't just change the quantization matrix for just a rectangular region, and if you use a small quantization matrix for the whole image, then it doesn't compress well enough.
22:37:23 <wob_jonas> It's possible that you could distribute an image as x264-encoded video like that, with special encoding software.
22:37:38 <zzo38> FLIF is a lossless format, but the encoder also has a lossy mode. How might it be done to make lossy alterations into a picture to make it compress better as PNG?
22:38:21 <zzo38> wob_jonas: It would not be very good I think, since it is a video not a picture. However, such HTTP headers as Accept and so on could be used to make the server automatically know which format you want I suppose.
22:38:46 <wob_jonas> The problem with old formats is that even if they compress well, they aren't designed such that they are easy to encode and decode quickly on modern machines. They're designed to be easy to decode and encode on old machines.
22:40:16 <zzo38> Make up the new HTTP header Accept-Soft-Limit to tell the server to try to limit to that many bytes if is reasonable to do so.
22:42:58 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: For some reason I can't talk in ##programming
22:43:26 <\oren\> why does emacs need ten megs to edit a file that is only 800 BYTES in size?
22:43:28 <hppavilion[1]> It can't be because I'm not identified; I just identified
22:43:33 <\oren\> richard stallman is a total moron
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22:44:02 <\oren\> holy shit ten megabytes for each and every file my coworker has open
22:44:42 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if, when generating a wordsearch, which of the following makes it more difficult:
22:45:16 <hppavilion[1]> 1. Filling in the random letters (those not involved in a searchable word) with equal probability- just as many z's and q's as t's and e's
22:46:02 <hppavilion[1]> 2. Filling in the random letters with the same distribution as the assumed language of the search (obviously, interlingual searches require either a weighted mean or just taking option (1))
22:46:50 <hppavilion[1]> So in an English search with no words, there'd be (on average) substantially more e's and t's than q's and z's
22:56:50 <\oren\> so yeah I think my tests will succeed now that I've politely asked my coworker to kill some of the 238 emacsen he had open
22:58:40 <wob_jonas> can't he have just a few emacsen, with multiple buffers in them?
22:58:57 <shachaf> \oren\: Why are you running your tests on the same machine as your editor?
22:59:07 <shachaf> Have you considered fixing your build and test system?
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23:00:08 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no he's not. his co-worker is running his editors on the production machine where the tests are supposed to be ran. that's obviously not oren's fault.
23:00:41 <\oren\> I also run my editors on the same machine
23:01:11 <wob_jonas> running editors is ok, but 238 of them when they take 10 megabytes each is a lot.
23:01:12 <\oren\> But I use nano, which doesn't take a separate 10 megabytes process for each file that is open
23:01:25 <wob_jonas> If I open many files, I open them in just few editors.
23:02:11 <\oren\> I still say this is all richard stallman's fault.
23:02:55 <wob_jonas> at least your coworker fixed the problem when you asked. that's a good thing.
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23:03:13 <\oren\> I think he wasn't even aware that so many were open
23:03:27 <\oren\> a lot of them were started months ago
23:03:50 <\oren\> which raises bigger questions of course
23:03:59 <shachaf> one little, two little, three little emacsen
23:04:09 <shachaf> \oren\: you should fix your test and build infrastructure
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23:06:41 <\oren\> oh, he's got the population down to 30
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23:08:31 <\oren\> wow, look at all this memory, how beautiful its empty expanse, like a sea beneath the stars
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23:23:40 <HackEgo> fungot//fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
23:27:49 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tell list let leet
23:28:06 <boily> okay, everything's fine.
23:28:19 * boily stares at his uncooperative modem
23:28:39 <wob_jonas> boily: no, not fine. that command returned false exit code.
23:28:49 <HackEgo> cat: bin/test: No such file or directory
23:28:59 <wob_jonas> HackEgo doesn't tell you the exit code, only the stdout
23:29:20 <shachaf> I'm sure it won't break anything.
23:29:26 <HackEgo> nœd//Nœd is Norwegian for distress.
23:29:30 <wob_jonas> don't create exes with name the same as common unix utilities, unless they're compatible. it's rude.
23:29:32 <shachaf> `mkx bin/test//kill -9 $PPID
23:30:00 <shachaf> HackEgo is not supposed to be a reliable environment.
23:30:10 <shachaf> It's supposed to defy your expectations in subtle ways.
23:30:17 <wob_jonas> could cause hard to debug problems
23:30:31 <wob_jonas> if you want to defy expectations, make them in such a way that are easy to debug
23:30:34 <boily> HackEgo is extremely sturdy. it has, like +9 resistance.
23:30:57 <wob_jonas> boily: that doesn't protect from spells it casts on itself
23:32:51 <shachaf> `mkx bin/test//[[ $((RANDOM % 5)) -eq 0 ]] && /bin/test "$@" || kill -9 $$
23:33:00 <shachaf> Better? Now it's 80% reliable.
23:34:02 <shachaf> That's only 7 dB of unreliability
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23:49:46 <HackEgo> brainfuck:brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array \ jerk:Jerk is the integral of snap.
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23:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I've never thought to ask: what's the derivative of the family of terrible esolangs?
23:58:13 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈] hppavilion[1̈] oerjän oerjän oerjän
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00:44:57 <oerjan> <izabera> how about using httpseverywhere . o O ( no, that's definitely too long... )
00:45:41 <HackEgo> 1/2:tanec//Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous! \ d//D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language. \ metasepia//metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. \ kallisti//kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity. \ llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychw
00:45:44 <HackEgo> 2/2:yrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch//Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is a village in Wales.
00:49:38 * oerjan wonders what shachaf changed in the topic
00:49:52 <shachaf> I removed the first section and also something else.
00:50:00 <shachaf> I removed ?dl=0 in the wisdom pdf
00:50:11 <shachaf> I thought people agreed to remove the wisdom pdf entirely? But it keeps coming back so maybe not.
00:50:12 -!- oerjan has set topic: The international hubby | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:50:32 <oerjan> i think you hallucinated people agreeing hth
00:50:55 <HackEgo> PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
00:51:00 <HackEgo> Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
00:51:08 <wob_jonas> as long as it's in wisdom, you don't need it in the topic
00:51:38 <oerjan> except that link is wrong
00:52:53 <oerjan> `slwd wisdom.pdf//s,htt.*,https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf,
00:52:54 <HackEgo> wisdom.pdf//Nicely formatted wisdoms and quotes book at https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
00:53:41 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
00:54:11 <wob_jonas> Maybe wisdom/pdf should be edited to include the link instead
00:58:09 <HackEgo> 778) <zzo38> There is no rule in poker that says you have to try hard to win.
00:59:43 <HackEgo> 987) <zzo38> It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta.
00:59:50 <HackEgo> 1287) <zzo38> [...] I told someone to tell the queen to tell the prime minister to cancel the EU. [...]
01:00:43 <shachaf> oh man, it was zzo38 all along
01:01:01 <HackEgo> 1083) <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range
01:01:39 <HackEgo> 26) <zzo38> I am not on the moon.
01:01:52 <shachaf> FireFly: Do you like pollution markets?
01:04:43 <HackEgo> 1263) <lambdabot> "on the oehtr hadn, sinortg olny the ideinss of wdors is pceeflrty raabdeel,... <fizzie> Well, maybe pceeflrty is a bit too strong a word here.
01:05:45 <FireFly> it took me too long to figure out "sinortg" :\
01:06:04 <HackEgo> Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt.
01:07:49 <HackEgo> 1152) <Sgeo> I have got to be less casual about typing rm -rf /
01:08:00 <HackEgo> 1152) <Sgeo> I have got to be less casual about typing rm -rf /
01:12:47 <HackEgo> Captain Phasma \ and boil until light brown. \ \ Combine sugar and olive oil and oregano. Remove chops. Break off \ doors along with tomatoes. Bake at 350 F for 45 minutes. Serve hot. \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: HONEY PEPPER (LA]) \ Categories: Diabetic, Fish, Chicken \ Yield: 4 Servings \ \
01:12:55 <HackEgo> 446) <oerjan> sllide: @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour
01:21:48 <HackEgo> 5pEV4X5h \ bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ nasmbuild \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom
01:21:54 <HackEgo> wc: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'wc --help' for more information.
01:22:01 <HackEgo> wc: invalid option -- 'n' \ Try 'wc --help' for more information.
01:22:29 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
01:22:35 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
01:23:13 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
01:23:17 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, ` vs `` shouldn't matter though b/c i'm not using any shell features
01:23:36 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it also means you cannot take more than one argument
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02:22:11 <Sgeo> "The TeX license permits distribution of a modified version only in the form of the original version plus a differences file. If A and B are separately released that way, then merged, distributing the merged program as A plus a change file violates the license of B. Distributing this as B plus a change file violates the license of A. Distributing this in any other way violates both licenses."
02:42:54 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: "I made some changes to the diff, but it's a big file so I don't want to send you the whole thing. If only there was a way to- oh, wait"
02:43:31 <doesthiswork> yes but that would be TWO difference files not one
02:45:10 <hppavilion[1]> But French is ridiculous: I was just reading about Ēmmānūēl's political party, "En Marche!", and I noticed that the pronunciation is [ɑ̃ maʁʃ]
02:45:47 <hppavilion[1]> Which, in retrospect, is slightly less absurd now that I've noticed the ʃ, but still!
02:46:11 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: I'm particularly proud of the name I referred to the French president by though.
02:46:59 <shachaf> Mr2001: Fix your infrastructure, yo
02:49:32 <hppavilion[1]> I'm also excited about Greece's underdog candidate for... whatever the Greek leader is (Chief Philosophiser? Keeper of the Compass and Straightedge? Who knows), Aarōn Iota Subscript
02:51:07 <doesthiswork> I think that I don't get that pun other than that his name is another diacritic
02:55:30 <doesthiswork> I was disappointed when I found out that the etymology of de Gaulle was not what it should be
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03:06:30 <HackEgo> Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
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03:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: I've recommended before that the English name for [‹«›»] be "Willies"
03:25:20 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: I've recommended before that the English name for [‹«›»] be "Willies"
03:31:42 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: "Haskpad is free software (\"free\" as in Free Monad, \"Free Beer\", and \"Free Speech\")"
03:38:20 <hppavilion[1]> More typefaces should support Blackboard Bold as a font
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03:45:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51882&oldid=51880 * H3amza * (+78) /* Keywords */
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06:43:04 <hppavilion[1]> "US anti-Muslim bias incidents increased in 2016, group says"
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07:22:43 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: Out of curiosity, what's your native language? I need to know how embarrassed to be.
07:24:29 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: OK, good. I figured, but this channel taught me you can't be certain
07:25:01 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: If your native language wasn't English, I'd have to be even MORE embarrassed because mine is and I would've missed a pun made by a non-native speaker xD
07:26:00 <doesthiswork> many puns are easier to notice when you learn a language as an adult
07:26:05 <hppavilion[1]> doesthiswork: ‹«›» are called "Guillemets", which is the diminutive of the equivalent of "William"
07:27:31 <doesthiswork> I get it, My coworker is named Guillimina, which was difficult to understand until I saw it written out.
07:30:54 <doesthiswork> I can't use any of the puns that I've come up with because they aren't very good but Victor Borge's puns seem to be a consequence of learning english as an adult.
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07:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> In my work of fiction, vampires have neither a reflection NOR a refraction
07:57:02 <doesthiswork> now that I think about it, vampires would be perfect for skylights and lampshades
07:58:19 <doesthiswork> they block direct lighting but let light destined to reflect pass unimpeded
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08:07:08 <doesthiswork> Yes, vampires are known for having no reflection, but being visible otherwise
08:07:59 <rdococ> but the way you phrased it makes it sound like it could be used to send information back in time
08:10:29 <rdococ> what if the light's destination is in a superposition?
08:16:45 <Mr2001> shachaf: infrastructure?
08:17:52 <shachaf> I don't know, something was broken.
08:20:44 <shachaf> Someone was being bold, I guess.
08:24:37 <hppavilion[1]> I had an idea for a text encoding that allows you to represent even more symbols than unicode: even symbols that don't yet exist have a simple encoding
08:24:59 <hppavilion[1]> @ask \oren\ At what codepoint can I refer to Prince?
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08:34:47 <HackEgo> 1/3:=@ccc//=@ccc is a great innovation in gcc 6, kept top secret, where inline asm statements can return a value in the carry flag on x86_64. See https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/changes.html which keeps this secret, https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-6.1.0/gcc/Extended-Asm.html , http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/2238065 . \ waltext2/
08:35:01 <HackEgo> 2/3:/WalText2 is WalrusOS's vector font renderer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version. \ ghost//A ghost is an unintelligent undead, similar to the skeleton but harder to create, because it's lacking the rest of the body. \ ngram model//An ngram model is just a Markov model with a sliding window state. \ orin//orin is oren's evil twin
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08:38:15 <HackEgo> 3/3:, stalking him from the other side of the international date line.
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12:00:05 <HackEgo> rho//Rho is the Greek letter that represents the mind, and thus psychology is called rho science. Today's reductionists consider the mind obsolete, and prefer to study new rho science.
12:00:56 <boily> . o O ( is there a pun in there, or am I imagining things? )
12:07:09 <HackEgo> 8813:2016-07-14 <shachäf> learn Rho is the Greek letter that represents the mind, and thus psychology is called rho science. Today\'s reductionists consider the mind obsolete, and prefer to study new rho science.
12:08:26 <int-e> "<shachaf> an expert in new r[h]o science"
12:10:00 <int-e> it's sad that I had to go to the logs to finally get it... but the first part of that wisdom entry completely distracted me from it.
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12:22:57 <boily> int-e: int-ello. no, still don't getting it :/
12:23:34 <int-e> boily: read it out loud
12:23:43 <int-e> (the quote by shachaf)
12:25:21 <int-e> the [h] was added by me... quintopia suggested to insert it there.
12:25:39 <boily> an expert in new row science???
12:25:52 * boily feels quite dumb here
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15:48:49 <oerjan> `addquote <hppavilion[1]> In my work of fiction, vampires have neither a reflection NOR a refraction <doesthiswork> do they have absorption or emitance? <doesthiswork> now that I think about it, vampires would be perfect for skylights and lampshades <doesthiswork> they block direct lighting but let light destined to reflect pass unimpeded
15:48:52 <HackEgo> 1312) <hppavilion[1]> In my work of fiction, vampires have neither a reflection NOR a refraction <doesthiswork> do they have absorption or emitance? <doesthiswork> now that I think about it, vampires would be perfect for skylights and lampshades <doesthiswork> they block direct lighting but let light destined to reflect pass unimpeded
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16:07:33 <\oren\> hmm, so what do you do, keep some vampires chained up and cut their hair every year?
16:08:59 <\oren\> or does it apply to clothing too
16:10:14 <\oren\> in which case, you repeatedely dress and strip a restrained vampire
16:11:33 <Taneb> Maybe you could skin a vampire and just use the skin
16:14:54 <Taneb> Rather than having a whole vampire
16:26:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51883&oldid=51881 * Mayube * (+157)
16:30:50 <\oren\> Taneb: well, that depends if vampires regrow their skin or not
16:33:03 <Phantom_Hoover> though actually it wouldn't b/c you can't butcher a live creature
16:33:19 <Phantom_Hoover> ...you can butcher body parts though! so you could lop its limbs off and make leather from that
16:35:31 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I don't think butchered body parts drop skin though?
16:36:13 <rdococ> I think all of the vampire must have the special property of no reflection, otherwise you'd see the rest of it in the reflection
16:36:59 <rdococ> then again, what happens to the blood or tomato ketchup that vampires consume?
16:38:28 <Taneb> ...would vampires have shadows?
16:39:05 <rdococ> it depends if the light hitting the vampire would be destined to be reflected by another surface if it did reflect from the vampire
16:41:09 <rdococ> When light hits a vampire, it will pass through the vampire iff its current trajectory leads it to a reflective surface.
16:42:00 <rdococ> So, if you count the floor as reflective (since it reflects light), vampires would have no shadow - imagine the floor as a mirror: you'd see the light the vampire would normally block.
16:42:28 <rdococ> But if you count the floor as non-reflective (since it's not usually as reflective as a mirror), vampires would have a shadow.
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16:45:55 <Taneb> I asked a physicist friend and she said "don't apply logic to fantasy"
16:46:13 <\oren\> rdococ: besically, the specular reflected light would pass through
16:46:49 <rdococ> Say you had a shiny, but not metallic, red surface. Would you see the vampire in it?
16:47:27 <\oren\> so if you're looking at for example pavement in the shadow of a vampire, you'd see a shadow, but the grains of the pavement's aggregate would still sparkle
16:47:32 <shachaf> int-e: I didn't get it either just now.
16:47:38 <shachaf> Too contrived. Too much setup.
16:48:04 -!- oerjan has set topic: Shining a light on vampirology | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
16:48:20 <rdococ> \oren\: I was under the impression that any reflection other than direct human vision would count
16:49:21 <Taneb> rdococ, what about, say, dog vision
16:49:28 <int-e> soon we'll get to the bottom of this mining business <-- a pun that I found yesterday in one of the Broken Sword adventure games.
16:49:53 <oerjan> clearly \oren\'s conclusion that vampires cause sparkling means the logic must be wrong.
16:50:18 <\oren\> oerjan: no, vampires just don't mitigate sparkling
16:50:19 <rdococ> I guess what we're asking for is the reflection threshold of the vampires' reflectionlessness...?
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16:50:55 <\oren\> or specular reflections of ligh sources they would otherwise block
16:51:16 <rdococ> when does non-specular reflection become specular?
16:51:43 <Taneb> I think vampires go against our understanding of quantum mechanics
16:52:00 <oerjan> Taneb: either that, or quantum mechanics is the cause of their reflection properties
16:52:20 <oerjan> maybe electrons are tiny vampires
16:52:28 <hppavilion[1]> I had an idea for a way to improve QR codes; I wonder what's wrong with it.
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16:54:00 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: ...has this conversation been going since yesterday?
16:54:18 <Taneb> I think it came back up when oerjan `addquoted it
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16:54:50 <Taneb> I didn't do as well as I'd like in my quantum information processing exam
16:55:03 <Taneb> So maybe I'm not the authority on what is and what isn't legal quanta
16:55:28 <hppavilion[1]> It's exactly the same, except that it looks completely different
16:55:40 <rdococ> I don't think vampires are useful for the FTL transportation of information, unfortunately
16:56:11 <\oren\> color QR code: 3 qr codes in diffrent colors superimposed
16:56:35 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Well, other than that it has nothing to do with that, but the 'c' IS for 'color'
16:57:03 <rdococ> honestly it only sounds useful to save space...
16:57:25 <hppavilion[1]> The second corner square (you know, they all have those 3 identical regions used to identify the orientation and- iirc- even if the code has been reflected) would be altered so that the inner squares have a number of visually-distinct colors (they can't be black or white; white is an empty square to fill in non-powers-of-2)
16:58:12 <rdococ> the second corner square/
16:58:14 <hppavilion[1]> The actual body is then written in those colors, with the position of the corresponding pixels in the color ID indicating its position in base 2^k
16:58:25 <rdococ> Can you show an example?
16:58:45 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: There are 3 corner regions on every code, iyrc. The second one is the middle one (unless there's already established nomenclature for it)
16:59:17 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I don't have one yet and I really don't want to make it.
16:59:44 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: The point is that the body pixels are in pretty colors.
17:00:32 <\oren\> find pigments that preferentially absorb N different wavelengths
17:00:35 <hppavilion[1]> Any color pattern may be chosen in that space, so that these can use irregular patterns
17:01:00 <hppavilion[1]> So that, if you have a limited palette, you can still invoke it by choosing the colors carefully.
17:01:06 <\oren\> then you can use N superimposed QR codes
17:01:31 <rdococ> can it store any extra information, compared to a regular QR code?
17:02:46 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: The one I checked on the door- a 29×29 to sign up to use a music room outside of your normal class period- could have 4 times as many bits and 16 times as many combinations without changing the resolution OR size
17:03:18 <hppavilion[1]> (I noticed it when I was walking in and it triggered me to think about this idea again)
17:04:18 <hppavilion[1]> [to be clear, though, this only works if I understand QR codes correctly; if the "body" of the code- the area that isn't the 3 corner regions- can have arbitrary combinations, this makes sense; else, this all goes out the window)
17:04:49 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Oh, technically, if you have N colors, you're actually using log_2(N) superimposed codes
17:06:15 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: But, yeah, with k colors, you get equivalent information density to lb(k) QR codes of equal dimension to the cQR code in question.
17:08:58 <hppavilion[1]> I might be able to hack together an implementation of the decoder, but extracting the code panel from an image is another story (which was already difficult BEFORE you couldn't rely on it at least being a D=1 græyscale)
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17:14:35 <rdococ> there are color QR codes
17:15:01 <rdococ> yes, but it's still in prototyping phase
17:15:16 <rdococ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Extension
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17:17:44 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Looks like it follows the same idea as mine, other than the pattern not being where I put it
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20:17:45 <\oren\> California has voted to eliminate a Cold War-era law that allows state workers to be fired if they are found to be communists.
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20:58:32 <fizzie> It's Eurovision time of the year again.
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22:32:34 <hppavilion[1]> I was thinking about angles, and I seem to have designed two ways of measuring 3d angles which correspond to cartesian vs. polar
22:32:54 <hppavilion[1]> The polar one seems to involve... rotating an angle? As in, you rotate the angle itself about an angle?
22:36:28 <fizzie> You mean spherical coordinates?
22:40:43 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: It's a 2-dimensional angle; you can think of it a point on the boundary of the unit sphere the way you can think of an angle as a point on the boundary of the unit circle
22:47:57 <Phantom_Hoover> the problem you're going to find is that 3d rotations don't map onto a sphere the way 2d rotations map onto a circle
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22:57:31 <\oren\> An oersted is equal to one dyne per maxwell
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23:12:05 <zzo38> You mentioned stuff before about if vampires do not have a visible reflection and/or does not cast a shadow. In GURPS, it is possible to define individually if your character is visible by direct sight, has a visible reflection, casts a shadow, is visible to ghosts, in visible to cameras, visible to sonar, etc.
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23:29:50 <zzo38> I don't know how it should interact in some cases with some physics either but do you know?
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23:41:50 <Zarutian> zzo38: oh, neat. Imagine a character that is only visible indirectly in, reflections, camera feeds and etc. A freak spell accident or some such. Just imagine the pain in the arse that character has to go through on daily basis.
23:42:18 <Zarutian> specially if the character is driving.
23:43:43 <DHeadshot> Zarutian: Like some kind of reverse vampire?
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23:44:20 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes, OK. Yes you can define such a thing, and that is a possible reason for it too I suppose.
23:44:38 <Zarutian> DHeadshot: yeah, could get work as a stage hand in theater.
23:45:03 <Zarutian> DHeadshot: I meant yeah. And he or she could get work as a stage hand in theater.
23:47:22 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose it can have such advantages as that too.
23:49:44 <Zarutian> zzo38: but is there something specifing that a character can not be seen in odd number of reflections? (Only even ones)
23:50:14 <zzo38> GURPS currently has no such thing, although I like that idea too, and we can make up such a modifier for such thing
23:54:57 <boily> it's possible for GURPS to not have a thing?
23:55:29 <zzo38> Yes, sometimes is stuff missing, so we have to add them.
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00:09:47 <zzo38> I have made lists of new traits and spells for GURPS, although some of them are not yet fully defined.
00:14:43 <zzo38> Including such new traits and modifiers as: Adrenaline, Age Healing, Aging, Backfire, Broadcast Only, Can't Be Healed, Can't Kill (a modifier), Costs Age, Damages Self Only, Delaying Shield, Fatigue Unhealing, Favoured Enemies, Fractional Recoil, Invulnerability, Laser Damage, Mind Eating, Mirror Chemistry, Name Required, Name Vision, Negative DR, No Fourth Wall, Weather Agent, and more!!!!!!
00:14:53 <zzo38> Do you like this? Do you have some ideas about it too?
00:20:16 <shachaf> Are those Magic: The Gathering keywords?
00:25:11 <HackEgo> [U+2732 OPEN CENTRE ASTERISK]
00:25:36 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you like GURP theory?
00:25:58 * boily mapoles shachaf. 0.49 FP.
00:26:58 * boily mapoles hppavilion[1] too for good measure. 0.26 FP.
00:27:25 <boily> unmaymorable it was. North America doesn't May 1st :/
00:28:14 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Except when we're crashing and burning, in which case we May 1th constantinopley, even in the middle of September
00:30:25 <hppavilion[1]> At some point I started pronouncing "Euler" correctly (like 'Oiler'), but the oil started to leak and now I have to stop myself from saying "Oiclid" and "Oiphrates"
00:31:22 <boily> just pronounce them with an [ø] and everything will be fine.
00:34:28 <zzo38> None of them are Magic: the Gathering cards as far as I know.
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00:36:44 <boily> I bought an Amonkhet booster today. the cards are nice! no value, but quite a few of them will be usable.
00:37:18 <boily> and a nifty full art mountain. because artwork.
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00:40:46 <HackEgo> Invulnerability \ 1W \ Instant \ Buyback {3} (You may pay an additional {3} as you cast this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.) \ The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage. \ TE-U
00:41:59 <HackEgo> Backfire \ U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Whenever enchanted creature deals damage to you, Backfire deals that much damage to that creature's controller. \ LE-U, 4E-U
00:42:35 <HackEgo> Delaying Shield \ 3W \ Enchantment \ If damage would be dealt to you, put that many delay counters on Delaying Shield instead. \ At the beginning of your upkeep, remove all delay counters from Delaying Shield. For each delay counter removed this way, you lose 1 life unless you pay {1}{W}. \ OD-R
00:46:38 <wob_jonas> I guess you rolled 1 on your Knowledge check there
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00:48:51 <wob_jonas> I actually have Invulnerability, that's why I knew
00:49:30 <HackEgo> Inviolability \ 1W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Prevent all damage that would be dealt to enchanted creature. \ MM-C
01:00:44 <boily> `card-by-name Shield of the Oversoul
01:00:45 <HackEgo> Shield of the Oversoul \ 2(g/w) \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ As long as enchanted creature is green, it gets +1/+1 and has indestructible. (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy it. If its toughness is 0 or less, it's still put into its owner's graveyard.) \ As long as enchanted creature is white, it gets +1/+1 and has f
01:00:57 <zzo38> Yes, some of them are names of Magic: the Gathering cards; I forgot. But it is not really based on that.
01:01:23 <boily> I'm believing more and more that Magic is the Most Universal of Them All.
01:01:28 <wob_jonas> ``` card-by-name "Shield of the Oversoul" | tail -n+4
01:01:29 <HackEgo> Enchant creature \ As long as enchanted creature is green, it gets +1/+1 and has indestructible. (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy it. If its toughness is 0 or less, it's still put into its owner's graveyard.) \ As long as enchanted creature is white, it gets +1/+1 and has flying. \ SHM-C
01:01:49 <boily> explaining other card and boardgames is so much easier and straightforward if the person plays Magic.
01:02:18 <wob_jonas> boily: what do you mean you choose which creature to attack? how does that even work?
01:03:28 <zzo38> I think that Magic is not quite the Most Universal of Them All, although knowing Magic: the Gathering can help in some cases.
01:03:57 <wob_jonas> boily: reputedly, people coming into Magic from other collectible card games are confused because in M:tG, when you attack with a creature, you don't declare which creature of the opponent you attack.
01:04:06 <wob_jonas> instead, the opponent declares blockers.
01:04:43 <wob_jonas> Some card games have the attacker declaring which creature to attack, although the defending player may have creatures with some intercepting ability that lets them change that.
01:05:14 <boily> yes, like in Ashes.
01:05:20 <zzo38> In Sirlin's Codex card game, the opponent must declare blockers before you attack!
01:05:52 <zzo38> (Since it is not their turn, they are not allowed to do anything.)
01:06:37 <wob_jonas> also, M:tG players sometimes want to act like they're better than the Yu Gi Oh players who play a stupid children's game
01:07:11 <zzo38> I think they are just two different card game. I don't know how to play Yu Gi Oh, although it doesn't make it necessarily better or worse than the other one.
01:07:24 <zzo38> (And some people may know more than one game.)
01:07:57 <zzo38> Such as, I can play Pokemon card as well as Magic: the Gathering. They have different kind of tactics and strategies and that stuff.
01:09:14 <boily> I never got to play Pokémon for real, only on-the-spot-kiddy-rules when I was younger...
01:10:16 <wob_jonas> (then there's playing cards upside down so they work as lands, and such strange stuff)
01:10:21 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> ``` card-by-name "Shield of the Oversoul" | tail -n+4 <-- itym `2 hth
01:11:01 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering a face down permanent is a 2/2 creature with no other characteristics by default.
01:13:35 <HackEgo> Watcher of the Roost \ 2W \ Creature -- Bird Soldier \ 2/1 \ Flying \ Morph--Reveal a white card in your hand. (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ When Watcher of the Roost is turned face up, you gain 2 life. \ KTK-U, FRF-U
01:13:44 <HackEgo> Monastery Flock \ 2U \ Creature -- Bird \ 0/5 \ Defender, flying \ Morph {U} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ KTK-C
01:14:16 <HackEgo> Sootfeather Flock \ 4B \ Creature -- Bird \ 3/2 \ Flying \ Morph {3}{B} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ LGN-C
01:14:30 <oerjan> wob_jonas: the bug at aaronson's blog is giving me your login info >:P
01:15:06 <oerjan> despite me never having posted myself afair
01:15:26 <wob_jonas> oerjan: what login info? nick and email? I never kept those very much secret.
01:15:33 <oerjan> at least your email isn't very ... right
01:16:03 <oerjan> there might be some people on that blog who wouldn't want that to happen though.
01:16:24 <wob_jonas> or the fake website too? I think I typed http://example.com or something a few times because this blog formatting is buggy and if you enter a website url it shows your nick in a larger font, and I want the larger font
01:17:59 <wob_jonas> but then, there are other websites that have sold my email address to spammers, so it's hardly unique
01:18:09 <wob_jonas> email address and other account details
01:18:41 <oerjan> my address may have been sold to spammers before you were born >:)
01:18:49 * oerjan isn't sure how old you are, anyway
01:19:55 <oerjan> probably not quite young.
01:20:10 <oerjan> i swear i type words that disappear
01:21:22 <oerjan> it's probably quantum, like the bug on that blog
01:21:47 <shachaf> I thought wob_jonas was old.
01:23:58 <boily> I'd say wob_jonas is probably about 0.8 oerjans old, or something close.
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01:28:07 <HackEgo> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
01:28:10 <HackEgo> wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
01:30:15 <wob_jonas> also, SMBC advertises phdcomics's book today
01:34:43 <wob_jonas> oerjan: oh, and http://slatestarcodex.com/ top article starts with "Multiocular O"
01:49:25 <boily> I ought to >_>'...
01:50:37 <boily> and I think I may just have had an inspirational flash.
02:21:05 <boily> . o O ( hmm... apparently it's impossible to have a single wide O piece in Tetris... )
02:26:19 <boily> J<<Jrr<<OrLrr<Jr>Or>>>>I>>I>>>
02:26:29 <boily> ↑ "He", from "Hello, world!".
02:28:14 <boily> suppose you have an 8-wide Tetris field. you drop pieces, then when you complete a line with an I, all cleared lines do something.
02:28:38 <boily> first square is the opcode, everything else are operands.
02:28:41 <wob_jonas> you can't hvae an 8 wide tetris field. tetris fields are 10 wide.
02:29:37 <boily> for demo purposes, suppose J is character output to stdout. the next six blocks (omitting the block from the I that completed the line) are two ASCII characters, base 7.
02:30:20 <boily> pieces are IJLOSTZ for digits 0 to 6. to achieve a single-wide O, I'm cheating by considering a rotation to be a domino.
02:32:17 <boily> wob_jonas: having a width of 8 augments flavour: instructions are 7 base-7 digits, and 7 isn't exploited enough in esoteriland.
02:33:43 <boily> quintopia: what do you think?
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03:37:22 <zzo38> You don't need to use drugs to make art; you just need to be drugs.
03:37:58 <zzo38> (Drugs are dangerous anyways, so it is good if you can avoid it anyways.)
03:38:09 <shachaf> kmc: can you confirm the above twh
03:39:17 <kmc> it sounds right to me
03:39:31 <kmc> but i am on drugs (booze drugs) so i might be biased
03:39:57 <kmc> I'm not an expert at making art
03:40:01 <kmc> have only done a little
03:45:06 <doesthiswork> that's how it starts, you just do a little and next thing you know you're broke and have a closet full of acrylic paints and sable brushes
03:46:22 <wob_jonas> Programming can be art, even if it doesn't need sable brushes. (We do sometimes buy expensive computers thoguh.)
03:47:40 <zzo38> And one way to avoid to use drugs is if you can just need to be drugs and therefore you can do without the drugs
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03:49:53 <doesthiswork> in high school (it was an arts high school) on of my teachers told me that he didn't want to see what I was like on drugs because I clearly already was them.
03:50:15 <shachaf> He didn't want to see what you were like?
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07:01:30 <zzo38> While trying to fly to Mornington Crescent your wing broke and so you fell down into this place and got injured (you start with only one point of health), but this is ZZT so there are magic diamonds that can help you. If you found the doctor that can help you then maybe you can fix your wing, or maybe you can just take the subway.
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07:23:44 <zzo38> I want to figure out if I can make a program to prepare a picture for lossy PNG compression. I have some ideas about it, but other than that I do not quite know.
07:26:54 <zzo38> I may try, though.
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08:01:33 <^v> I present to you
08:01:39 <^v> the first Layout Oriented language
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08:40:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( second-degree Bézier curves- or "Bézabolae"- are a type of Conic Béztion )
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11:46:22 <HackEgo> supercalifragilisticexponential growth//Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust.
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11:51:16 <int-e> So does linear growth if you wait long enough.
11:52:44 <int-e> (or if the constant factor is big enough... or the starting term... or... or... or...)
11:55:42 <boily> everything is linear with the proper scale or ambition.
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12:23:18 <int-e> IME most things are bounded by constants
12:25:35 <boily> There's a Feigenbaum constant for that!
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13:18:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51884&oldid=51868 * Primo * (+2410) /* 0-99 optimal non-wrapping and soft-wrapping values from power series*/
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13:23:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51885&oldid=51884 * Primo * (+3297) /* 100-149 optimal non-wrapping and soft-wrapping values from power series*/
13:29:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51886&oldid=51885 * Primo * (+3591) /* 150-199 optimal non-wrapping and soft-wrapping values from power series*/
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13:35:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51887&oldid=51886 * Primo * (+4907) /* 200-255 optimal non-wrapping and soft-wrapping values from power series*/
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16:56:55 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I wonder who Galois's monster (from Monsters, Inc.) was
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17:10:35 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: You have been failed by your parents or legal guardians
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17:11:05 <hppavilion[1]> (Either that or you aren't American and the movie isn't as popular in whatever commie country you're from, but I'm pretty sure I remember you being American)
17:12:35 <Taneb> It's not really that great a movie
17:14:34 <Taneb> I'll take your word for it.
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17:20:57 <rdococ> I'm not from a commie country o-o
17:21:05 <rdococ> (and I'm not american)
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18:44:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mirabilos * New user account
18:53:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51888&oldid=51872 * Mirabilos * (+252) add myself
18:53:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51889&oldid=50826 * Mirabilos * (+237) add previous claim to “Ͻ” as programming language name
18:56:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51890&oldid=51826 * Mirabilos * (+214) add MirBSD brainfuck, which brought me here first
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19:52:49 <HackEgo> 1/3:mornington crescent//Sorry, you cannot read this wisdom until you've legally played Westminster. \ oklopol//oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid." \ morphism//A morphism is just a natural t
19:52:54 <HackEgo> 2/3:ransformation between two diagrams of 1. \ b_jonas can't spell//b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, mysterious, Odyssey, myopia, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, existence, heard, appropriate; and confuses these sets of words: then, than; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate
19:52:56 <HackEgo> 3/3:, dilute, delate; contiguous, continuous. \ advertisement//Advertisement starts: have you heard about this hip and froopy 'net place called #esoteric? It is on freenode. Brought to you by The Board of Timeskewed Advertiesements.
19:53:44 <HackEgo> 9325:2016-10-18 <tsweẗt> slwd morphism//s/functors on/diagrams of/ \ 5251:2015-02-03 <oerjän> learn A morphism is just a natural transformation between two functors on 1. \ 5138:2014-11-16 <shachäf> revert 5134 \ 5135:2014-11-16 <ellioẗt> find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -El \'(is|are) just\' | xargs rm \ 1294:2013-01-07 <oerjä
19:54:09 <shachaf> `slwd morphism//s.1.shape 1.
19:54:12 <HackEgo> morphism//A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of shape 1.
19:54:28 <HackEgo> 2/4:xargs -0 grep -El \'(is|are) just\' | xargs rm \ 1294:2013-01-07 <oerjän> echo "Morphisms are just elements of the Hom-set of a pair of objects." >wisdom/morphism \ 1287:2013-01-07 <fizzïe> sed -i -e \'s/is a/is just a/\' wisdom/morphism \ 1259:2013-01-04 <GreyKnigḧt> echo "A morphism is a map between two objects in an abstract
19:54:45 <HackEgo> 3/4:category." > wisdom/morphism # better?? \ 1257:2013-01-04 <GreyKnigḧt> echo "A morphism is just an abstraction derived from structure-preserving mappings between two categories." > wisdom/morphism \ 1256:2013-01-04 <GreyKnigḧt> echo "A morphism is just an abstraction derived from structure-preserving mappings between two mathemati
19:54:58 <HackEgo> 4/4:cal structures." > wisdom/morphism
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20:52:57 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] asked 1d 12h 27m 57s ago: At what codepoint can I refer to Prince?
20:55:33 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: the love symbol #2 that prince used as his name for a while isn't in unicode
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21:01:03 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I know, but I figured you'ld've put it in the Private Use Area
21:13:36 <\oren\> I don't have combining heart above
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23:08:29 <HackEgo> xkcd//xkcd ([ɪkskɑsede]) is a webcomic that updates every M/W/F.
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00:09:42 <boily> doo doo doo doo doo ♪
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00:38:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Ↄ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51891 * Oerjan * (+237) Moved from article
00:38:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51892&oldid=51889 * Oerjan * (-237) Move to talk page
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00:41:32 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, mysterious, Odyssey, myopia, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, existence, heard, appropriate; and confuses these sets of words: then, than; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute, delate; contiguous, continuous.
00:46:45 <wob_jonas> boily: a moment, I'm revising this
00:47:05 <oerjan> boily: obviously he couldn't spell it.
00:47:19 <wob_jonas> boily: see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas , dilate vs dilute is the main problem, but delate is a real word though very rare
00:48:09 <wob_jonas> `learn b_jonas can't spell/b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discret
00:48:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'b_jona': b_jonas can't spell/b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuo
00:48:36 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn b_jonas can't spell//b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d
00:48:38 <HackEgo> Relearned 'b_jonas can't spell': b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d
00:48:40 <boily> en:dilate is fr:dilater, and en:dilute is fr:diluer, so they are easy to contrast :P
00:48:51 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d
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00:49:19 <HackEgo> kiki`: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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00:49:45 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0];local$/;$s=<$I>;print"(($s))"' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:49:45 <HackEgo> ((b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d \ ))
00:51:04 <oerjan> `2 \? b_jonas can't spell
00:51:23 <oerjan> `? b_jonas can't spell
00:51:24 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d
00:51:43 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0];local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(.*;) d/$1 discrete, discreet./;print substr($s,300),"||"' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:51:44 <HackEgo> us, continuous; discrete, discreet. \ ||
00:51:49 <wob_jonas> oerjan: please wait, I'm still fixing it
00:51:57 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0];local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(.*;) d/$1 discrete, discreet.\n/;print substr($s,200),"||"' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:51:57 <HackEgo> sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet. \ \ ||
00:52:07 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0];local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(.*;) d/$1 discrete, discreet./;print substr($s,200),"||"' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:52:08 <HackEgo> sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet. \ ||
00:52:25 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0];local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(.*;) d.*/$1 discrete, discreet./s;print substr($s,200),"||"' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:52:26 <HackEgo> sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.||
00:52:34 <boily> LONG LIVE SED -I! GLORY TO THE SED! SHUN THE SLWD!
00:52:50 <wob_jonas> oerjan: look, I use tools I know how to use already, it's easier than trying to learn all sorts of new commands
00:53:53 <oerjan> `? b_jonas can't spell
00:53:54 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d
00:54:04 <oerjan> `2 \? b_jonas can't spell
00:54:05 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(.*;) d.*/$1 discrete, discreet./s;print substr($s,200),"||";open$O,">",$ARGV[0];print$O $s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:54:07 <HackEgo> sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.||
00:54:20 <wob_jonas> oerjan: when you queried, I haven't edited yet. I'm previewing before saving it
00:54:33 <wob_jonas> maybe I shuold remove the "and confuses these sets of words:"
00:55:09 <oerjan> boily: sed -i is ok, i had a little talk with it, telling it to behave.
00:55:13 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;print substr($s,100),"||";' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:55:14 <HackEgo> nce, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.||
00:55:45 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;print $s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:55:46 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:55:46 <boily> splitting the lists would be akin to the Tanebventions, which would bring Harmony and Cohérence to the Magnificent Wisdom.
00:56:33 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/and conf.*ds://;print $s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:56:33 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:56:35 <boily> («cohérence» is my “amortized”. what the hell is it again in English, for fungot's sake...)
00:56:35 <fungot> boily: i'm going to fnord
00:56:40 <fungot> boily: not always. i don't
00:56:42 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/and conf.*ds: //;print $s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:56:43 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:56:47 <boily> fungot: yes you fnord.
00:56:48 <fungot> boily: that must have been here more than a week. now i get it? heh, okay. i might be quitting seeing as i didn't realize
00:57:17 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/and conf.*ds: //;open$O,">",$ARGV[0];print$O $s or die;close$O or die;print$s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:57:19 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:57:31 <boily> oerjan: no, it's a false friend. “consistency”.
00:58:13 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(jealous;)/$1 and confuses:/;if(0){open$O,">",$ARGV[0];print$O $s or die;close$O or die;}print$s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:58:14 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:58:26 <wob_jonas> ``` perl -we 'open$I,"<",$ARGV[0]or die;local$/;$s=<$I>;$s=~s/(jealous;)/$1 and confuses:/;if(1){open$O,">",$ARGV[0];print$O $s or die;close$O or die;}print$s;' "wisdom/b_jonas can't spell"
00:58:28 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:58:32 <HackEgo> b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.
00:58:35 <HackEgo> Spelling of -ance/-ence words: advance, science, conference, experience, finance, insurance, licence, performance, reference, assistance, balance, defence, difference, distance, evidence, acceptance, appliance, audience, compliance, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, preference, presence, sentence, sequence, substance, viol
00:58:43 <HackEgo> 2/2:ubstance, violence, absence, accordance, alliance, appearance, assurance, attendance, circumstance, clearance, confidence, consequence, entrance, excellence, existence, fragrance, governance, guidance, independence, offence, refinance, residence, resistance, romance.
01:01:43 <boily> avance, science, conférence, expérience, finance, assurance, license, performance, référence, assistance, balance, défence, différence, distance, évidence, acceptance, appareil, audience, conformité, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, préférence, présence, phrase, séquence, substance, violence, absence, en accord, alliance, apparance, assurance, présence, circonstance,
01:01:45 <boily> autorisation, confiance, conséquence, entrée, excellence, existence, parfum, gouvernance, orientation, indépendence, infraction, refinancer, résidence, romance.
01:02:30 <wob_jonas> boily: this is just a short selection, because we don't want very long wisdom entries. there are much more -ance words.
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01:03:38 <wob_jonas> boily: also, how does that help? isn't the -ance and -ence in those french words pronounced the same too?
01:05:02 <boily> yup. and English blatantly ripped off French!
01:06:14 <wob_jonas> presence => présence, appearance => présence is the funny one there.
01:06:51 <boily> woops. présence et apparance.
01:07:43 <wob_jonas> I think influence doesn't have a corresponding entry in your list
01:09:10 <wob_jonas> resistance doesn't have a corresponding entry instead
01:09:25 <boily> indeed. résistance.
01:12:58 <wob_jonas> The https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Silent_initial_consonants is a funny list. I almost never confuse words like {rite,write,right,wright}, {wrap,rap}, {know,now,no}, because I'm more familiar with the written form and haven't really internalized that the initial consonant is mute in English.
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01:15:47 <wob_jonas> also {knight,night}, {knot,not}, {knit,nit}. And I absolutely don't get {psychology,psionics,pseudo,psychic,pneumagic} because those words exist in Hungarian and are pronounced with an initial p.
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01:27:08 <doesthiswork> in relation to the Euler conversation yesterday "Ferris Boiller's Day off"
01:28:10 <wob_jonas> (Gnu too, technically, is a word that exists in hungarian, but given that it's a mammal you only see in a zoo, it's not a word that comes up in casual conversation, except as the software brand.)
01:32:28 <boily> pneumagic: air bending.
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02:02:40 <HackEgo> minsky//to Minsky on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a Minsky machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer.
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02:07:27 <boily> that's like the traditional Austrian arithmetic singing, Gödeling.
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02:52:13 <doesthiswork> have you ever thought that maybe there might be too many puns in this channel?
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10:59:05 <fizzie> fungot: You're still up, right?
10:59:06 <fungot> fizzie: i dunno. an example on how to tackle that problem?
11:00:34 <izabera> fizzie: read the fucking topic ffs
11:04:02 <fizzie> I'm not going to even dignify that with a response.
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11:42:51 <HackEgo> tip//A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese.
11:43:33 <DHeadshot> Shouldn't the "[ £ ]" be cyan/teal for a fiver?
11:45:09 <boily> DHellodshot. probably so.
11:48:01 <HackEgo> delaware//Delaware is a US state in which everybody speaks German.
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17:36:14 <HackEgo> 10884:2017-05-11 <boil̈y> forget quit \ 3000:2013-05-30 <cpressëy> learn /quit
17:38:54 <shachaf> the last olist was over a month ago #scow
17:40:17 * oerjan has looped back to loopy
17:40:59 <shachaf> oerjan: if you like loopy, maybe you would like The Witness hth
17:41:15 <shachaf> since one of the puzzle types in The Witness is p. much loopy
17:41:20 <shachaf> (except with a defined beginning and end)
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17:41:29 <shachaf> and also there are other puzzle types
17:41:46 <shachaf> You use Windows anyway, right? Can your computer run a game like that?
17:42:24 <oerjan> i don't know, i don't run many games.
17:50:22 <oerjan> loopy feels varied despite having only one mechanic
17:51:16 <shachaf> int-e: would oerjan enjoy the poochness y/n
17:52:07 <int-e> How should I know. It sort of has a lot of walking around between the puzzles. OTOH it has a lot of puzzles in the walking around once you know to look for them.
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17:55:15 <shachaf> GET /YesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurp
17:55:21 <shachaf> oseWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleas ...
17:55:24 <shachaf> ... eHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScanningForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongReque
17:55:30 <shachaf> stURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScann ...
17:55:32 <shachaf> ... ingForResearchPurposePleaseHaveALookAtTheUserAgentTHXYesThisIsAReallyLongRequestURLbutWeAreDoingItOnPurposeWeAreScann
17:57:49 <shachaf> I don't know why I have two different things doing IRC line splitting. Maybe I should figure it out.
17:58:10 <shachaf> Also probably a small fraction of that path would have gotten the point across.
18:01:13 <oerjan> . o O ( whatever the point was )
18:02:24 <rdococ> . o O ( if there was a mirror dimension, only vampires could get there )
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18:22:17 <int-e> shachaf: I solved the Dead End.
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18:24:47 <rdococ> what do people think of my mirror dimension vampire thing?
18:35:32 <Zarutian> rdococ: hadnt had the time to reflect upon it.
18:39:02 <rdococ> Zarutian, well, be glad you can reflect on it, unlike vampires.
18:40:29 <rdococ> Also, what if garlic gave vampires reflections?
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18:46:07 <oerjan> vampires are very careful not to let knowledge about their whereabouts leek out like that.
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19:32:20 <rdococ> Mirrors are interdimensional portals that only grant access to vampires.
19:40:59 <rdococ> `le//rn mirror//Mirrors are interdimensional portals that only grant access to vampires.
19:41:01 <HackEgo> Learned 'mirror': Mirrors are interdimensional portals that only grant access to vampires.
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20:04:09 <\oren\> why the hell isn't it ロス・アンジェレス
20:04:33 <\oren\> instead they call los angeles ロサンゼルス
20:05:26 <DHeadshot> ... wrong channel or is this a convo that was last referred to hours ago?
20:06:35 <\oren\> wweks ago I thought I had figured out the general rules by which things are transcribed into katakana
20:08:52 <\oren\> apparently it includes ignoring word boundaries
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20:09:36 <\oren\> but only in some cases
20:11:34 <Taneb> Do you think it'd be easier to get to Dresden from Prague or from Berlin
20:12:01 <DHeadshot> Should be Berlin, but who knows...
20:12:17 <Taneb> Prague's a fair bit closer
20:12:38 <DHeadshot> Do you have to worry about customs though?
20:12:46 <Taneb> It's in the Schengen area
20:13:08 <Taneb> There's no border control
20:13:11 * DHeadshot hasn't travelled between shengen nations
20:13:57 <Taneb> I have but I was very young at the time
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20:17:10 <fizzie> We did a train trip once that went Stockholm-Copenhagen-Amsterdam-Brussels-Paris-Karlsruhe-Copenhagen-Stockholm, and nobody checked our passports at any time.
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21:08:54 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
21:09:20 <HackEgo> 1/2:740) <ion> 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker. \ 226) <elliott> lol @ closed character set standard <elliott> "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows." \ 1264) <coppro> actually a small trebuchet onto the balcony might work \ 1196) <MDude> It seems t
21:09:23 <HackEgo> 2/2:here aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems.
21:10:35 <HackEgo> vatican//vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate. You will be robbed.
21:11:26 <HackEgo> 1/1:1337//1337 15 50 905 \ west midlands//Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far. \ nit//Nits are there to be picked. \ banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
21:13:29 <shachaf> my finger mislanded on that key
21:13:41 <HackEgo> 2124:2013-02-13 <Tanëb> echo "Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far." > wisdom/west\\ midlands \ 2122:2013-02-13 <Tanëb> echo "Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former re
21:14:04 <HackEgo> 2/2: two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so for" > wisdom/west\\ midlands
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23:21:44 <HackEgo> keenlist//keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
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23:27:16 <\oren\> https://www.dinside.no/okonomi/reklameskilt-ser-hvem-du-er/67552025
23:29:21 <\oren\> a pizzeria in norway detects what kind of person is looking at the billboard and displays different ads
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23:29:51 <\oren\> https://www.dinside.no/okonomi/reklameskilt-ser-hvem-du-er/67552025
23:30:21 <boily> hellørjan! you hairily fall!
23:30:41 <boily> (aurgh. how should it be translated?)
23:31:42 <oerjan> helloily. advertising signs see who you are hth
23:32:02 <oerjan> or possibly sign, it's the same in plural
23:32:22 <boily> credit to \oren\ for the find.
23:32:38 <boily> (Google Translate also fails. “You fall to hair”)
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23:34:45 <boily> ah! fr:«tomber à pic» → en:“to show at the right time”
23:35:25 <boily> http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/tomber-pile-au-poil-pile-poil.php ← «tomber au poil», lit. “to fall at the hair”
23:35:44 <oerjan> boily: what is the meaning of that phrase hth
23:35:54 <boily> “to show at the right time” hth
23:36:43 <\oren\> boily: what is your opinion on ロサンゼルス
23:36:59 <oerjan> unless you had actually been speaking about me, in which case "speak of the devil" would fit.
23:37:34 <oerjan> (no:når man snakker om sola)
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23:38:31 <\oren\> I think rosanzerusu is a very confusing transliteration for los angeles
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00:25:03 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0...
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00:34:17 <oerjan> darn laikoni already did the same idea
00:34:35 <oerjan> (not that trick though, which alas ties with z=0:z)
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00:40:00 <oerjan> (but i can save him 3 bytes)
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01:06:11 <HackEgo> infinitive//Infinitives are atomic verbs. They were first split in the 1940s, and the world hasn't looked back since.
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03:44:29 <zzo38> Do you like ZZT game? Now partially I made up one such and have released the preview version
03:45:23 <HackEgo> 1/2:hom-set//Hom-sets are just sets of morphisms between two objects. \ relevant info//The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller. \ comonad//Comonads are just monads in the dual category. They are hard to get into. \ google//Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ gho
03:45:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:ti//“Ghoti” is a very fishy spelling.
03:46:06 <zzo38> ZZT is a old computer game from Potomac Computer Systems (Epic MegaGames), and includes editor so that other people can also made up the new ZZT game.
03:46:43 <HackEgo> 7960:2016-05-08 <zzo3̈8> ` le/rn "hfs/`hfs`" # Maybe this way better? \ 5571:2015-06-12 <zzo3̈8> learn Zork is like York, except for the first letter. \ 5551:2015-06-12 <zzo3̈8> `` sed -i \'s/https.*wisdom.pdf/listing it in private/\' bin/ls \ 5550:2015-06-12 <zzo3̈8> revert \ 5549:2015-06-12 <zzo3̈8> `` echo \'#!/bin/bash \\ if /bin/ls -id "$
03:47:36 <shachaf> `` doag | grep zzo3̈8 | wc -l
03:47:57 <shachaf> `` doag | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
03:48:03 <HackEgo> 3044 <oerjän> \ 1223 <shachäf> \ 609 <ellioẗt> \ 391 <b_jonäs> \ 373 <boil̈y> \ 356 <hppavilion[1̈]> \ 286 <fizzïe> \ 262 <int-̈e> \ 220 <tsweẗt> \ 210 <Jafët> \ 197 <ais52̈3> \ 177 <GreyKnigḧt> \ 165 <km̈c> \ 152 <rdocöc> \ 144 <zgrëp> \ 144 <Tanëb> \ 1
03:48:27 <shachaf> `` dowg | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
03:48:34 <HackEgo> 1471 <oerjän> 580 <shachäf> 277 <boil̈y> 273 <b_jonäs> 169 <int-̈e> 148 <rdocöc> 141 <hppavilion[1̈]> 96 <tsweẗt> 64 <mromän> 57 <Tanëb> 52 <ellioẗt> 47 <Zarutiän> 43 <Jafët> 38 <GreyKnigḧt> 35 <Phantom_Hoovër> 32 <mroman̈_> 29 <fizzïe> 27 <Rouj̈o> 25 <olsnër> 21 <oren̈> 21 <FireFl̈y> 19 <wob_jonäs> 17 <ZombieCh
03:48:47 <shachaf> `` doag quotes | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
03:48:53 <HackEgo> 358 <oerjän> 326 <ellioẗt> 84 <shachäf> 75 <km̈c> 54 <ais52̈3> 45 <coppr̈o> 26 <monq̈y> 22 <boil̈y> 14 <Tanëb> 14 <Phantom_Hoovër> 14 <GreyKnigḧt> 11 <shubshüb> 11 <quintopïa> 11 <Gregör> 9 <fizzïe> 9 <FireFl̈y> 8 <mnoq̈y> 8 <Fior̈a> 8 <elliott__̈_> 7 <Sgëo> 7 <iön> 6 <Jafët> 6 <hagb4r̈d> 5 <tsweẗt> 5 <olsnër
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05:21:16 <zzo38> This new ZZT game XYZABCDE.ZZT
05:24:08 <shachaf> Have you considered making a ZZT game ZZT38.ZZT?
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06:38:32 <zzo38> Now I made ff-xcapture so that there is the option to capture an area selected by mouse, as well as an option to capture a pixmap rather than a window.
06:51:27 <Hoolootwo> that's useful, my screenshot tool does those too
06:53:12 <zzo38> What is your screenshot tool?
06:54:41 <shachaf> You can use a camera to take a screenshot.
06:56:34 <zzo38> Hoolootwo: What is your screenshot tool?
06:57:24 <zzo38> O, then which one is it?
06:58:07 <Hoolootwo> forgot the command name for a second there
06:58:45 <zzo38> There is also xwd, although I made my own, although just today I added these extra options, which were previously missing.
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07:02:18 <zzo38> I looked up mate-screenshot, and mine is pretty different. If you want to delay, just add a sleep command before. If you want shadows and borders and so on, pipe the output into another program which will add that effect. Mine also has no dialog box (it uses no toolkit, so the program is small). Also, the man page for mate-screenshot doesn't seem to say it support using the window ID or using a pixmap ID.
07:03:22 <shachaf> I usually use the built-in screenshot tool.
07:03:49 <Hoolootwo> I very very rarely have to take screenshots, so I just stick with the one that's installed
07:04:05 <zzo38> shachaf: What built-in screenshot tool? I think there is just xwd?
07:04:18 <shachaf> It depends on what kind of environment you use.
07:04:28 <shachaf> On my work computer I use the Mac OS screenshot tool.
07:04:32 <zzo38> Before I wrote ff-xcapture, I used xwd, which is the one that is install with by default I think.
07:04:39 <shachaf> On Windows I use the print-screen key screenshot tool.
07:04:50 <zzo38> shachaf: Well, yes, on Windows you use the Print Screen key, and then use Paint to save it to a file.
07:04:57 <shachaf> On X11 I often use some fancy complicated desktop environment.
07:05:07 <shachaf> So it usually has a built-in tool as well.
07:08:14 <zzo38> I don't use any desktop environment; I just set it up so that a key combination starts a new xterm, as well as another key combination to run xrefresh, and then I made up a status line, and a few other key combinations are used to manipulate the windows.
07:10:40 <zzo38> Hoolootwo: You could look at the documentation for my screenshot program: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-xcapture
07:10:54 <zzo38> (You can also look at the source-code if you wish)
07:12:35 <zzo38> For example, you can use the command "sleep 3; ff-xcapture | ffpng > screenshot.png; xkbbell" to save the screenshot to "screenshot.png" in three seconds, ringing the bell after it is done.
07:21:57 <zzo38> Do you like Farbfeld Utilities?
07:25:48 <Hoolootwo> they seem useful for some things, though I don't think I would replace the tools I use with them
07:26:13 <Hoolootwo> mainly because I don't usually touch images ever
07:37:21 <zzo38> Still, if you have any suggestions you can mention them.
07:37:42 <zzo38> (You or someone else can also to contribute code if wanted, I suppose.)
07:39:51 <zzo38> Well, to just mention on here and/or on the ticket system.
07:40:01 <shachaf> I mean, how to contribute code.
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07:40:55 <zzo38> Write the C code as public domain and then post them. You can also use Fossil if you wish, but this is not necessary; only is necessary to provide the file.
07:42:38 <zzo38> (Now I added it into the Frequently Ask Questions)
07:43:03 <shachaf> How frequently has it been asked?
07:43:17 <zzo38> At least once; other than that I forget.
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07:47:09 <zzo38> But if you have other question you could mention that too.
07:47:53 <HackEgo> Al Gore invented the algorithm.
07:51:19 <HackEgo> 1/2:cemental//"Cemental" is the feeling of being cemented in place and it is making you mental. Can happen in awkward infrequent family gatherings such as Easter-Bum-Hunting where one cannot leave without breaking a reluctantly ontaken social responsibility. \ lmt//lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. \ doesthiswork//no \ pirate//P
07:51:36 <HackEgo> 2/2:irates are humourously nautical persons. Their grammar is friendly and plural. \ itym//itym "i think you mean" hth
07:54:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Socratic Phoenix * New user account
08:07:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51893&oldid=51888 * Socratic Phoenix * (+325)
08:09:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Socratic Phoenix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51894 * Socratic Phoenix * (+752) Created page with "Socratic_Phoenix is a self-proclaimed humble-genius, with interests in poetry, math, and computer science. He is a resident of the United States of America, and is currently a..."
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08:24:02 <zzo38> Do you have any codes to contribute? That can include encoders/decoders of other file formats, or special effects, or use with scanner, or whatever.
08:25:36 <zzo38> (And also suggestions, comments, complaints, and so on.)
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11:42:13 <HackEgo> marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
12:01:45 <Taneb> We have vegemite in more than marmite
12:01:49 <Taneb> (I don't eat either)
12:07:43 <FireFly> I tried a tiny bit of marmite when visiting the UK last year, but didn't like it at all
12:07:56 <FireFly> I guess it might be an acquired taste
12:08:33 <FireFly> OTOH the brits there didn't mind marmite but found pickled herring on sandwiches to be weird
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12:19:52 <boily> cretons is where it's at.
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12:50:09 <olsner> FireFly: what does it taste like?
12:51:20 <FireFly> very salty and with some flavour
12:53:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51895&oldid=51887 * Primo * (+253) /* 100-149 optimal 3-cell shuffles*/
12:54:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51896&oldid=51895 * Primo * (+1868) /* 150-199 optimal 3-cell shuffles*/
13:00:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51897&oldid=51896 * Primo * (+2153) /* 200-255 optimal 3-cell shuffles*/
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13:17:50 <Taneb> FireFly, so, like crisps?
13:18:45 <FireFly> marmite was way more salty I think
13:19:02 <FireFly> more like someone deciding bullion would make a nice spread
13:19:23 <FireFly> or hm, maybe that's not the right word
13:20:10 <FireFly> which is a terribly overloaded term
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14:28:18 <DHeadshot> FireFly, Taneb: Not everyone in the UK likes Marmite. I can't stand it myself...
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18:14:53 <zzo38> There was a power out.
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18:40:37 <Taneb> DHeadshot, I'm aware, I'm in the UK and don't like marmite
18:40:53 <Taneb> It's... basically their advertising, that a lot of people don't like it
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18:56:55 <\oren\> Taneb: have you heard that the NHS is being ransomwared?
19:00:47 <\oren\> or to put it the way the daily mail did, 𝐇𝐀𝐂𝐊𝐄𝐑𝐒 𝐀𝐓𝐓𝐀𝐂𝐊 𝐍𝐇𝐒
19:01:31 <\oren\> zzo38: the uk's healthcare system
19:02:20 <zzo38> O, that is what it is. OK
19:09:47 <rdococ> to be honest, they're doing no more damage than the UK's government is already doing
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19:19:15 <doesthiswork> At first I thought you meant is as a metaphore for how the UK government has been treating the NHS
19:20:32 <rdococ> the "hackers" probably are the government
19:23:51 <doesthiswork> Daily Mail: Top Story "Irina Britanova swims NAKED with sharks in the maldives"
19:40:27 <\oren\> lol I hit enter and forgot it doesn't literally type 'enter'
19:41:48 <\oren\> ooh pepsi FIRE I want one
19:43:43 <\oren\> they are getting bad reviews, they probably made it too spicy for normies,
19:50:39 <FireFly> \oren\: apparently also companies in Spain being hit with the same ransomware
19:51:13 <FireFly> the NHS thing was amusing; it mentioned an email server going down and I couldn't help but be reminded of http://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-email-reply-all-down
19:51:45 <zzo38> I would want someone to try to play and preview the ZZT game I made up yesterday
19:52:30 <shachaf> Is there a JavaScript emulator I can use?
19:53:14 <zzo38> I don't know, but you can look. You will need a computer that can run ZZT or a program that can emulate PC and DOS to do so, and then the world file.
19:53:32 <zzo38> (One way is to use DOSBOX, which is what I have.)
19:58:18 <zzo38> You can download the (compressed) world file: http://zzo38computer.org/ZZT/xyzabcde.zip
20:00:40 <zzo38> See if you like this and if you have any other comment/question/complaint please.
20:13:44 <zzo38> You can download ZZT: http://zzo38computer.org/ZZT/zzt32.zip
20:30:29 <zzo38> Why do you hate it?
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20:51:37 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
20:51:51 <wob_jonas> this would be funnier without the "finally "
20:52:26 <HackEgo> Mirrors are interdimensional portals that only grant access to vampires.
20:52:46 <HackEgo> Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
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21:00:59 <wob_jonas> `perl -we{open$I,"<",$f="wisdom/keenlist"or die;local$/;$_=<$f>;s/finally // or die;print;}
21:01:00 <HackEgo> Name "main::I" used only once: possible typo at -e line 1. \ readline() on unopened filehandle at -e line 1. \ Use of uninitialized value $_ in substitution (s///) at -e line 1. \ Died at -e line 1.
21:01:15 <wob_jonas> `perl -we{open$I,"<",$f="wisdom/keenlist"or die;local$/;$_=<$I>;s/finally // or die;print;}
21:01:16 <HackEgo> Name "main::f" used only once: possible typo at -e line 1. \ keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
21:01:56 <wob_jonas> `perl -we{open$I,"<",$f="wisdom/keenlist"or die;local$/;$_=<$I>;s/finally // or die;open$O,">",$f;print$O $_ or die;close$O or die;print}
21:01:58 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
21:02:03 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
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21:32:41 <wob_jonas> argh... the interface of these online shopping forms is terrible
21:34:16 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: dunno, probably no, but that's not the problem
21:38:46 <doesthiswork> ok, perhaps a specialized language for writing and filling out online shopping forms would help.
21:40:54 <wob_jonas> NO IT WOULDN'T. a bit of common sense and not overcomplicating the damned thing would help.
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21:42:43 <zzo38> I think that a common protocol instead of using forms might help. Neither a form nor a specialized language is what to do
21:43:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't see a problem with using forms.
21:47:25 <zzo38> Do you like this new ZZT game?
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00:01:30 <zzo38> If you are trying to figure the physics if you do not cast a shadow or if your reflection is not visible. Now I should try to figure how to work such physics into GURPS? (Currently there is no character or object with those properties but if there is in the game I am in in future then it can be important to figure out?)
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00:24:27 <zzo38> Now I made a program "ff-xwin" to display a farbfeld picture on the X server. You can use either TrueColor visuals or standard-colormaps.
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01:29:03 <zzo38> Farbfeld is: The ASCII letters "farbfeld", the 32-bit width, the 32-bit height, and then the pixels starting top-left and going to right, each pixel being 16-bit red, 16-bit green, 16-bit blue, 16-bit alpha. All numbers are unsigned big-endian.
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01:34:51 <Zarutian> is this some sort of uncompressed pixmap format?
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01:42:24 <Zarutian> I am not even sure I know of anyone with that good visual aquity. Perhaps this is usefull for beyond photorealistic displays and printing.
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01:54:04 <HackEgo> 6636:2016-02-07 <oerjän> learn Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt.
02:01:26 <shachaf> oerjan: are you sure that aaaciiilnopttz is valid twh
02:06:02 <oerjan> `slwd ginorst//s,ai/Ai,;s,ii,Ii;s,aa,Aa,
02:06:03 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 14: unknown option to `s'
02:06:17 <oerjan> `slwd ginorst//s,ai,Ai,;s,ii,Ii;s,aa,Aa,
02:06:18 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 20: unknown option to `s'
02:06:33 <oerjan> `slwd ginorst//s,ai,Ai,;s,ii,Ii,;s,aa,Aa,
02:06:35 <HackEgo> ginorst//Ginorst is eht Aillpr fo dgoo Iikw Aaeegmmnnt.
02:06:57 <oerjan> `slwd ginorst//s,dg,Dg,
02:06:59 <HackEgo> ginorst//Ginorst is eht Aillpr fo Dgoo Iikw Aaeegmmnnt.
02:07:23 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes it is, and can be use for pipe between programs. (I think is not so useful to store in a file, though.) This precision can still help with using filters to alter the picture even if your vision or display is not as good as that.
02:09:25 <Zarutian> zzo38: I see. But I take it it is only inteded for one image per processing so to speak, no? (Not a stream of images or video frames)
02:10:53 <shachaf> oerjan: ahtt aekms no eenss dhnt
02:11:11 <zzo38> There I made a list of all of the program I have written so far to deal with it: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Documentation You can also find the source-codes too, and to compile it too.
02:12:36 <shachaf> ginorst is emor fo a aaceillprrt
02:13:06 <zzo38> Zarutian: Do you like this?
02:13:35 <Zarutian> zzo38: it is simple enough format and rather handy to work with.
02:15:35 <Zarutian> zzo38: I take it that the idea is to pipe a starting image through many utilities. My question is, do these utilities keep the entire image in memory or what?
02:18:18 <zzo38> Zarutian: Some do, some don't need to.
02:18:31 <zzo38> You are right about the use though.
02:19:06 <zzo38> For example one that only alters colours does not need to store the entire picture in memory since it only needs to deal with one pixel at a time.
02:19:32 <Zarutian> but I am a bit mistified by the to-hsv utility.
02:20:26 <Zarutian> as hsv is completely diffrent colourspace from usual rgb(a)
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02:21:54 <zzo38> Yes, it is different. It might be used as a intermediate step though, such as if you want to do the arithmetic on the HSV colour space instead of RGB.
02:23:18 <Zarutian> so the colour channels in an farbfeld image that is piped from to-hsv are not rgb but hsv (and in that order)?
02:25:53 * Zarutian sees no mention of CYMK nor Chroma(2 channels)&Luminance colourspace converters.
02:26:43 <zzo38> That is true there is no such thing yet.
02:26:59 <zzo38> (But in some cases you can use ff-matrix)
02:28:50 <Zarutian> isnt this format basically missing a bit of metadata then? (Just a indication of colourspace being used)
02:29:02 <Zarutian> and as CYMK takes four colour channels how would such colourspace be represented in farbfeld?
02:29:31 <zzo38> You would not have alpha in that case.
02:30:00 <zzo38> There is no metadata it is not needed; farbfeld is only RGB, but you can nevertheless put different data in there if you are doing calculations that use HSV and so on.
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02:31:20 <Zarutian> I am also curious what method ff-turn uses (if it uses the three sheers method then there wont be any data loss)
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02:33:41 <zzo38> It can rotate only 90 degrees. (I also don't know what is "three sheers method")
02:36:18 <Zarutian> sheering, or slanting, is rather simple operation where each horizational or vertical scanline is shifted u times to left or right or up or down. Where u is how many scanlines you are along.
02:37:35 <Zarutian> using three of these in certain way (there is a nifty article about it whose link I can dig out if you want) you can rotate between 0-90°
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03:18:25 <zzo38> Let's you can learn to play the game that I made up today, and then you can write the complaint about it.
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04:47:06 <zzo38> The new ZZT game that I had made up yesterday. (And also the other stuff.)
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06:13:11 <HackEgo> 1/3:icelandic unnerver//An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users. \ ☾_//☾_ i
06:13:15 <HackEgo> 2/3:s moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ ice//I.C.E. stands for Imaginary Christian Era. It covers the forgotten period of time that is not on the real axis. \ moth//Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs. \ coffee//Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vap
06:13:54 <HackEgo> 3/3:our catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
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06:15:02 <shachaf> `forget icelandic unnerver
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06:24:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:natural transformation//A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals. \ bardsworthlist//bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webcomic. http://www.bardsworth.com/ \ imaginary unit//The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love \ category theory//In the
06:24:36 <HackEgo> 2/2:theory of categories, category theory is a theory in the category of theories. \ sport//sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
06:27:05 <HackEgo> 1/2:defenestration//Defenestration is the traditional Czech system for voting out government officials. \ cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse. \ twint-e//twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ persistence//Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's b
06:27:08 <HackEgo> 2/2:een around ever since. \ np-complete//NP-complete is the subset of NP to which all problems in P can be reduced, thus completely solving them.
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08:43:13 <\oren\> I agree with rikka's opinion of tomatos
08:43:35 <Taneb> Is that significant?
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08:55:07 <\oren\> Taneb: doesn't really signify much
08:56:12 <\oren\> also, this is yet another anime with the same plot
08:56:59 <\oren\> 1. Guy meets strange, annoying girl. 2. girl creates new school club and forces guy to join it.
09:07:45 <\oren\> I swear to god, it's like they had a meeting and were like "so what characters should we have"
09:07:49 <\oren\> "well, we need a main character with practically no character traits whatsoever besides being male"
09:08:06 <\oren\> "and an annoying, crazy girl who he is forced to cater to"
09:08:10 <\oren\> and then all that varies is what sort of crazy shit the girl is up to
09:09:02 <sdhand> \oren\: which anime is this in particular?
09:09:20 <sdhand> But as you said there's a lot with that plot
09:10:47 <\oren\> In this case it's chuunibyou demo koi ga shitai, my first time watching this
09:13:18 <\oren\> last time was Hyouka, that one was good. I just wish they would come up with a different plot
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11:39:29 <HackEgo> The password of the month is bad
11:41:23 <int-e> . o O ( www.iuqerfsodp9ifjaposdfjhgosurijfaewrwergwea.com seems like a good candidate. )
11:45:11 <int-e> ...I still don't want to set a precedent of changing the password of the month in the middle of the month.
12:14:03 <myname> is there some haskell class that works like Num in regards to fromIntegral but with strings?
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12:35:43 <int-e> myname: there's #haskell you know
12:39:29 <myname> i know, mostly i am too lazy to go there for a single question
12:40:40 <myname> that does not seem to cast automatically, too sad
12:43:47 <int-e> there's #haskell you know
12:47:54 <int-e> Yes, patching is hard. But you either patch or run a closed system. If running a closed system isn't an option, you patch.
12:51:43 <int-e> wrong channel, context was https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/blog/2017-05/2017-05-12.html
12:54:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean the simple fact is that running a vulnerable system is overall a quite practical third option
13:00:03 <int-e> True. In that case, you have backups or no valuable data on your machine. Which you should have anywya.
13:00:27 <int-e> Basically there's only one term in that article that irks me: "victim-blaming".
13:00:56 <Phantom_Hoover> no you're missing the point, often you do have no backups or whatever
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13:01:20 <int-e> I don't think I am.
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15:20:25 <boily> Tanelle! the us and them were forgotten?!??!!?!
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15:23:35 <Taneb> Certainly unfortunate
15:26:46 <HackEgo> We don't know what certainly is for sure, but it certainly isn't a functor.
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15:54:17 <HackEgo> eöl//Eöl was called the Dark Elf; he was a great smith who dwelt in Nan Elmoth, and took Aredhel Turgon’s sister to wife; friend of the Dwarves; maker of the sword Anglachel (Gurthang); father of Maeglin; put to death in Gondolin.
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16:33:22 <HackEgo> enrichment centre//The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this next test is impossible.
16:47:14 <HackEgo> algorithm//Algorithms (derived from the medieval "algorisms") are popular sayings by former president Al Gore, except for God's Algorithm which was invented by a Google computer cluster.
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17:02:21 <Phantom_Hoover> can someone give me a quick example of a regex with backreferences which takes exponential time to match?
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19:22:33 <izabera> Phantom_Hoover: .*\(.*\).*\1.*
19:22:47 <izabera> Phantom_Hoover: .*(.*).*$1.* or however you want to write it
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19:25:34 <izabera> bah this just matches a string with a repeated character somewhere
19:26:56 <izabera> well try matching it like a regex engine would
19:27:24 * izabera is not good at coming up with examples
19:28:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: regex: not found
19:29:42 <int-e> Intuitively I'd expect any fixed perl regular expression to take polynomial time in the input string for matching. But Perl is crazy and the regex engine may be doing extra work. Doesn't Google find anything?
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19:41:04 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
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20:25:07 <boily> Zaruttellon. what's an ocap?
20:39:10 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: The re2 guy's article had some example where Perl was really slow.
20:39:18 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
20:39:56 <shachaf> Did you know string matching with '?' characters in the pattern is hard?
20:43:00 <shachaf> Well, it's as hard as boolean convolution apparently.
20:43:20 <shachaf> No one knows how to do it in linear time.
20:43:46 <alercah> what sort of string matching are we talking about?
20:45:41 <fizzie> I didn't know that. Funny. It doesn't *sound* all that hard.
20:45:59 <shachaf> I was implementing string matching with * and ?
20:46:07 <shachaf> I expected * to be harder than ? but it's easier.
20:46:44 <shachaf> ? ruins your ability to do KMP tdnh
20:48:52 <fizzie> People keep saying Hungarian is related to Finnish, but it always sounds so foreign.
20:49:04 <fizzie> (The Hungarian Eurovision song is in their own language.)
20:49:11 <shachaf> Do you use Finnish notation in programming?
20:49:35 <fizzie> That's, what, swearwords in the comments?
20:49:51 <shachaf> Can you solve the Finnish cube?
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20:50:32 <Sgeo> How does find work? I can put * and shell doesn't expand it?
20:52:27 <fizzie> Usually the shell does expand it (if there's anything matching), which is why it's best quoted.
20:53:24 <zzo38> Do you have any use for the quaternion mode of ff-composite?
20:53:56 <fizzie> Sgeo: http://sprunge.us/gDXi
20:59:56 <alercah> shachaf: do you mean regular expressions?
21:00:25 <alercah> oh I missed you explaining
21:13:23 <zzo38> Do you think the #define numbers in http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc.c?name=5f2a181fb1d551f4460c67677a851be08619aaca are high enough limits? I can increase in case is not good enough?
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21:27:22 <Zarutian> boily: if you are that curious see http://habitatchronicles.com/2017/05/what-are-capabilities/
21:34:36 <Eurotaneb> fizzie, Finnish and Hungarian are related, sure, just like Hindi and English are
21:35:31 <shachaf> Didn't y'all scrap Europe?
21:35:45 <shachaf> I guess if Australia can participate you might be allowed as well.
21:38:39 <Zarutian> Eurovision is where elevator earworms get born
21:41:28 <HackEgo> 3 ea Eggs; separated \ 6 Eggs \ 1/3 c Sugar \ 3 tb Light meal \ 1/2 ts Salt \ 1 ts Salt \ 1/8 ts Pepper \ 1/8 ts Cayenne pepper, marshmallow \ 8 oz Flour \ 1 c Light corn syrup \ Freshly ground white \ \ Preheat oven to 350\F8. Strain may be seed and cut into small pieces. Sprinkle \ may be added to make or spoonfuls, enough with seas
21:41:34 <HackEgo> 833) <Bike> "damn, my port of ghc to php isn't properly taking javascript booleans into account"
21:41:36 <HackEgo> e//e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player.
21:41:37 <Phantom_Hoover> <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: The re2 guy's article had some example where Perl was really slow.
21:41:58 <Phantom_Hoover> no yeah i know but the guy whose irc bot im trying to DOS got wise to that and probably changed his engine
21:42:32 <Phantom_Hoover> but it does support backrefs! so i need to leverage them to break out of the finite automaton engine
21:43:31 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: What if you do e.g. p{999}{999}{999}?
21:44:11 <shachaf> Wait, it supports backrefs.
21:44:23 <shachaf> So it's not using finite automata.
21:44:45 <wob_jonas> PH: I would actually like a regex engine that has a built-in loop counter so it can time out matches, so it can be used on any regex from untrusted input but just give up if it's too slow
21:48:14 <zzo38> I look at lastest RoboRosewater card. Whenever a player cast a spell, if that spell has same name as a permanent, it is countered, and then put it into battlefield anyways. I suppose it could be used with Spy Kit. You might also change the target of a Aura in some cases too.
21:48:38 <HackEgo> RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater
21:49:18 <shachaf> So just do the usual things?
21:49:30 <Phantom_Hoover> so, while it seemingly avoids pathological backtracking on actually-regular regular expressions, i can force it to backtrack with backrefs
21:50:03 <shachaf> Something like (a.*)a.*a.*a.*\1 maybe?
21:50:11 <shachaf> I don't know, all sorts of options. I don't know the context.
21:50:22 <wob_jonas> PH: are you sure it's not just using tre, which has two modes, one it uses with backrefs and one it uses without?
21:50:35 <wob_jonas> I think you can loop tre even without backrefs too
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21:51:27 <wob_jonas> with something like (.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.))(.|(.)) or something
21:51:43 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure of the exact right combo really
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22:00:28 <wob_jonas> it will still be fast enough for that
22:01:44 <wob_jonas> because it only takes time quadratic in the regex length if you don't use backrefs
22:01:51 <wob_jonas> so you have to use backrefs if you want to blow it up
22:02:52 <wob_jonas> unless you can give like ten thousand character long regexen
22:11:33 <fizzie> Someone nearby started some fireworks right when the UK song happened, I wonder if that was coincidental.
22:12:42 * Zarutian lamets that there is nothing on the telly currently worth watching.
22:14:00 <HackEgo> Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing.
22:15:46 <Zarutian> boily: so, ya glad you asked me about that ocaps thing?
22:16:39 <Zarutian> why can not it be like the ol' lympics, every four or twelf years?
22:17:04 <zzo38> Probably some people would have written their own program for writing module musics if they have not found a suitable existing programs; at least it is what I did. Now hopefully there are enough different one but if it is not, you can nevertheless to write the new one, I think. Is it?
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22:18:19 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: olympics costs a lot to run. Eurovision doesn't.
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22:18:52 <wob_jonas> Also, olympics every four year gives enough time to hold other sports periodical championships in between
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22:19:15 <wob_jonas> like, you know, the EUFA cup which is always in the same year as the olympics ... no wait, that doesn't make sense
22:20:13 <wob_jonas> parlimetary elections then. those are every four years, and offset from the olympics by two years.
22:22:35 <fizzie> I think Eurovision costs quite a lot to run too, though not in the scale of the Olympics.
22:23:11 <shachaf> Maybe it should be one more olympic competition.
22:23:30 <fizzie> Two-digit million of £s, suggests the first Google hit.
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22:28:45 <Phantom_Hoover> <wob_jonas> PH: are you sure it's not just using tre, which has two modes, one it uses with backrefs and one it uses without?
22:29:14 <Phantom_Hoover> in any case i think i eventually found an effective dos but i think the guy might've added a timeout
22:29:51 <Phantom_Hoover> as a third line of defence, after the more efficient engine and the message saying 'Phantom_Hoover: Your regex is shit and you should fuck off'
22:29:55 <wob_jonas> has anyone started writing knights and knaves puzzle like "On the Island of President, there live only three types of people. George Washingtons who always tell the truth, George W. Bushes who always tell lies, and Donald Trumps who can say any sentence regardless its meaning."
22:30:23 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Not that I have heard.
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22:36:55 <zzo38> Most of modules musics programs are using graphical user interface but I did not find the one with batch interface so that is why I wrote a new one.
22:45:14 <shachaf> Sure, but that's not going to be linear in the size of the pattern.
22:45:58 <zzo38> How can I find a assembler to target Dis virtual machine?
22:46:33 <zzo38> No, I mean the one with Inferno
22:46:54 <zzo38> (Except, the assembler running on Linux, rather)
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23:24:33 <fizzie> Taneb: Your country's doing pretty okay in this thing.
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23:28:59 <HackEgo> The Pieces Are Coming Together
23:29:20 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, I was talking about the United Kingdom.
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23:44:56 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, wait we actually did a decent eurovision for once?
23:47:28 <fizzie> Well, I mean, it didn't do *great*, ended up somewhere around #15 of 26.
23:47:46 <fizzie> But that's not bad. Finland didn't qualify for the final again.
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23:49:36 <fizzie> Are you watching a delayed broadcast, or is that just some sort of a philosophical comment?
23:49:48 <fizzie> Because it's definitely over already.
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00:00:41 <oerjan> `slwd imaginary unit//s,[^.]$,&.,
00:00:46 <HackEgo> imaginary unit//The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love.
00:06:01 <oerjan> @tell myname <myname> that does not seem to cast automatically, too sad <-- you need to enable OverloadedStrings
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01:03:53 <zzo38> Which old computer have enough RAM/ROM for implementing Zork without needing to reload from disk when changing banks?
01:05:21 <zzo38> The original IBM PC can have varying amounts of RAM installed; with 256K it will be more than sufficient.
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02:41:33 <wob_jonas> Wtf. http://thedoghousediaries.com revived after like a year of inactivity.
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02:42:26 <shachaf> Sounds like it needs a list.
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02:43:31 * oerjan made a golf so clever he almost didn't understand how it worked.
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02:45:33 <wob_jonas> Everyday Heroes http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/ also revived in like 2016-12, and it keeps updating since then.
02:45:54 <wob_jonas> (Its author presented a pretty good excuse though: he says her wife died.)
02:46:26 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the wife of the author of the Everyday Heroes comic strip
02:46:47 <wob_jonas> That's why he paused the comic for almost a year.
02:47:00 <shachaf> Does the author prefer the pronouns "he" and "her"?
02:47:27 <shachaf> If so, that would be the first justification I've seen for people always writing pronouns both in the subject and object case.
02:47:28 <wob_jonas> Probably no, I'm just not good at pronouns.
02:47:30 * oerjan _so_ tempted to create b_jonas cannot grammar
02:47:31 <shachaf> I don't know why they do it.
02:48:12 <wob_jonas> oerjan: feel free to create it. wisdom is always truthful, after all.
02:48:19 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
02:48:33 <wob_jonas> bobadventures is still going slow, as always
02:49:08 <HackEgo> 1/2:imaginary unit//The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love. \ glumgot//glumgot is not a particularly bad swear word, but is still disquieting. \ `learn//`learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...] \ no
02:49:14 <HackEgo> 2/2:oga//no. \ belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
02:49:32 <wob_jonas> And hey, Bardsworth is updating more regularly now too. About time.
02:52:53 <HackEgo> 1/2:atrocity//Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire. \ star wars//Star Wars was a missile defence system invented by Ronald Reagan. With it, he managed to destroy the Soviet Union, then rode into the sunset. \ false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \
02:52:58 <HackEgo> 2/2:corium//Corium is the material that a nuclear reactor's core dump is made of. \ ethanol//Ethanol is a Group 1 carcinogenic substance since 1988.
03:00:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:esrb//ESRB is short for Eric Steven Raymond's Beard. \ jonathan hoag//Hoag is an art critic. \ catamorphism//A catamorphism is when you recurse too greedily and too deep. \ physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English. \ extreme ironing//Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as eso
03:00:10 <HackEgo> 2/2:teric programming languages.
03:00:33 <shachaf> more like eric scow raymond imo
03:01:41 <HackEgo> <b_jonäs> slashlearn extreme ironing/Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
03:01:43 <wob_jonas> I think it's mine, but HackEgo doesn't remember
03:01:57 <HackEgo> Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
03:04:14 <HackEgo> `edit//`edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
03:04:15 <HackEgo> 94) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia
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03:08:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51898&oldid=51842 * Sunjay * (+362) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
03:10:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51899&oldid=51898 * Sunjay * (+84) /* while (x) { code } */ Added attribution to the section I wrote previously
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03:19:36 <HackEgo> 1/2:csv//CSV猫stands猫for猫Cat猫Separated猫Values \ mapole//A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. \ protocol//Protocol is not to be confused with protocoal. \ mtg//MTG i
03:20:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:s short for Money Tapping Game. \ hertz//hertz (German for heart) is an SI unit equal to the frequency of an average heartbeat.
03:20:49 <HackEgo> Protocoal is a bit of a wooden pun.
03:43:38 <HackEgo> 10740:2017-04-16 <int-̈e> ` cd wisdom; rm egg toward east body wit creative mputing us base half two camel lump hole egg\\ hunt aperture ". o O o ." \ 10726:2017-04-16 <rdocöc> le//rn us//The US is known for having a lower computing base than Russian co\x02mputing\x02 logic.
03:44:19 <HackEgo> 1513:2013-01-13 <oerjän> echo "Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons." >wisdom/\'the them\'
03:44:27 <HackEgo> 10726:2017-04-16 <rdocöc> le//rn us//The US is known for having a lower computing base than Russian co\x02mputing\x02 logic. \ 10740:2017-04-16 <int-̈e> ` cd wisdom; rm egg toward east body wit creative mputing us base half two camel lump hole egg\\ hunt aperture ". o O o ."
03:44:37 <oerjan> ok there never was a good one.
03:44:50 <HackEgo> The US is the country opposed to the THEM.
03:47:52 <oerjan> `le/rn regex//Regexes are regal expressions, such as "We are not amused."
03:47:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'regex': Regexes are regal expressions, such as "We are not amused."
03:48:14 <shachaf> oerjan: don't the rules of wisdom have something to say about placement of periods and quotes twh
03:49:52 <oerjan> `learn_append regex or "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
03:49:54 <HackEgo> Learned 'regex': Regexes are regal expressions, such as "We are not amused." or "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
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04:01:17 <HackEgo> 1/2:zzo38//zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. \ fiora//Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi. \ submarine jousting//Submarine jousting is unexplainable. \ moth//Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs. \ luftballon//A Luftballon is an experim
04:01:29 <HackEgo> 2/2:ental weapon first developed by the German military in 1983 designed to scramble fighter jets, causing chaos and starting wars between their enemies.
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05:15:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51900&oldid=51899 * Sunjay * (+580) /* x = x and y (boolean, logical) */
05:25:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51901&oldid=51900 * Sunjay * (+1016) /* x = x or y (boolean, logical) */
05:31:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Sunjay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51902&oldid=50875 * Sunjay * (+19)
05:43:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51903&oldid=51901 * Sunjay * (-292) EsoAPI doesn't seem to exist or be in use, feel free to undo if you think this is still valuable
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06:23:05 <zzo38> Apparently the German word "Hertz" meaning heart, is old (I looked it up in Wiktionary).
06:27:05 <zzo38> Yes that is the new word for heart (according to Wiktionary)
06:27:14 <\oren\> must be a spelling reform
06:32:40 <myname> that must be really old
06:34:11 <zzo38> (I don't know so well German though)
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07:39:24 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCn8ux2gbs
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10:52:59 <rdococ> `le//rn hice//Hice is the plural form of house.
10:53:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'hice': Hice is the plural form of house.
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13:51:50 <kerbal> Hello! Does this channel feature an Eternity interpreter?
13:52:41 <Taneb> It may do, we have a lot of interpreters
13:53:53 <kerbal> Ok. Let me try it. print hello world
13:54:54 <kerbal> Good news. I think that the interpreter is functioning normally
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14:21:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Netbytes * New user account
14:29:02 <boily> bonjourdococomment est-ce que ça va?
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14:30:52 <mroman> Captchas should have a checkbock "I whis I was a robot"
14:31:12 <mroman> it's probably wish isn't it
14:32:01 <boily> mrelloman. I wish I were a robot.
14:32:16 <boily> (I were, because subjunctive is weird.)
14:32:26 <mroman> what's the difference?
14:34:02 <mroman> `If your C program fails to compile, it becomes a valid ↄ program. `
14:34:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found
14:35:35 <mroman> tremor in right index finger is the worst
14:35:46 <mroman> gotta learn to use the mouse on my left hand
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14:40:18 <mroman> If a brainfuck program fails to compile it becomes a valid IchFickDeinGehirn program
14:40:49 <mroman> also vampires are real
14:41:22 <mroman> the reason we don't see any vampire bites that frequently is because vampires can only enter your house if you allowed them to enter it previously.
14:41:39 <mroman> it's some sort of vampire codex.
14:47:26 <alercah> mroman: what are the semantics of these languages?
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14:54:09 <mroman> the reverse C is a wiki page
14:54:16 <mroman> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%86%83
14:54:18 <mroman> the other one I just made up
14:59:43 <boily> mroman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive
15:01:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Asa-z * New user account
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15:30:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51904&oldid=51893 * Asa-z * (+223)
15:31:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hopscotch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51905 * Asa-z * (+3170) A simple esolang.
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15:34:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51906&oldid=51874 * Asa-z * (+16)
15:36:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hopscotch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51907&oldid=51905 * Asa-z * (+24)
15:37:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hopscotch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51908&oldid=51907 * Asa-z * (+0)
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16:47:54 <mroman> is google yet doing research on a TL;DR AI?
16:48:04 <mroman> I can give it a link and it creates a TL;DR
16:48:48 <mroman> Does it pick random sentences?
16:50:42 <mroman> oh it uses a webservice
16:57:48 <int-e> . o O ( tl;dr is short for "you can stop reading now" )
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17:38:41 <rdococ> . o O ( TL;DR.............are you still reading? )
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18:06:35 <HackEgo> cookbook//Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
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18:33:49 <zzo38> No $@ is the arguments
18:34:22 <DHeadshot> So without arguments "wisdom" just prints random wisdom anyway?
18:45:50 <HackEgo> 5880:2015-08-02 <oerjän> revert \ 5879:2015-08-02 <oerjän> rm wisdom/output \ 3516:2013-08-28 <olsnër> touch wisdom/output
18:46:13 <oerjan> there must be some reason then.
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18:47:24 <shachaf> I had to look at the IRC logs to figure it out.
18:47:36 <oerjan> i guess so did i, back then.
18:48:39 <shachaf> You should put something in the dowg to remind future inquirers.
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19:48:30 <HackEgo> 728) <oklopol> nortti: fizzie has done some impressive stuff in befunge, which is essentially the two-dimensional version of finnish politics. \ 729) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised \ 1198) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint wit
19:51:05 <HackEgo> 121) <nooga> i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages <olsner> even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok \ 156) <olsner> DAMN YOU, I'm leaving <Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! \ 168) <tswett> elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. <o
19:52:03 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.32139
19:53:12 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.20555
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19:55:47 <Taneb> I never did figure out if oklopol and oklofok were the same person or not
19:56:57 <olsner> is anyone even the same person every time you see them?
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20:01:34 <shachaf> can you cross the same vectors twice
20:02:14 <shachaf> Taneb: do you like differential geometry
20:03:07 <Taneb> shachaf, not as much as I like geometric differentiation
20:03:16 <shachaf> What is geometric differentiation?
20:09:57 <Taneb> Constructing the tangent on the graph and measuring its gradient
20:10:22 <Taneb> ...huh, it's an actual thing
20:10:40 <Taneb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_calculus#Differentiation
20:10:48 <Taneb> Not really my part of maths, though
20:11:02 <shachaf> do you like tangent bundles
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20:14:35 <shachaf> I'd like to like differential geometry but I don't understand it well enough.
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20:16:22 <Taneb> shachaf, seeing as I don't like differential geometry, I'd suggest Slereah__ is not me
20:16:34 <shachaf> Oh, you didn't mention that you don't like it.
20:21:30 <alercah> what is a cotaneb bundle though?
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20:25:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Shining a light on vampirology | Reminder: Today is Mother's Day (US) | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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20:48:23 <zzo38> In GURPS game I play in, so far my character is the only one with armour. Nobody else (on either side) has any armour, although my character and his friend both have some natural DR. Why do you think that is?
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21:03:55 <HackEgo> alogl//ALOGL is a logarithmic language.
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21:04:34 <Slereah__> alercah : it's a fiber bundle of the cotangent space
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21:04:56 <alercah> Slereah__: that's a cotangent bundle
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21:09:00 <Slereah__> the cotaneb space is the space of linear transformations on Taneb
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21:37:49 <HackEgo> real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download//Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there.
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22:14:31 <shachaf> Mr2001: I guess some people are more sensitive than others to broken meter.
22:15:36 <shachaf> I don't know how people manage to write a limerick which is just all wrong. What a mess.
22:15:43 <shachaf> Did you see the #esoteric limericks?
22:19:50 <HackEgo> 1/2:cake//The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake. \ denial//Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it. \ password//The password of the month is bad \ claustrophobia//Claustrophobia thought the wisdom database was getting too crowded,
22:19:53 <HackEgo> 2/2: so left. \ category theory//In the theory of categories, category theory is a theory in the category of theories.
22:20:24 <HackEgo> 10595:2017-04-09 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is bad \ 10373:2017-03-08 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is OSBDemoLap9W53! \ 10206:2017-02-04 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7 \ 10065:2017-01-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\
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23:06:56 <HackEgo> The password of the month is bad
23:09:02 <boily> `le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch
23:09:05 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch
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23:17:23 <int-e> so much for precedents
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23:41:10 <oerjan> <Taneb> I never did figure out if oklopol and oklofok were the same person or not <-- he is hth
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23:47:21 <shachaf> oklopol is, but oklofok isn't
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01:32:05 <oerjan> <shachaf> can you cross the same vectors twice <-- you can, although you cannot step into the same stream twice. and please don't even think about crossing the streams twh
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01:36:46 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: ahem hth <-- oh. i assumed that it wasn't a month and that was why int-e didn't want to change it.
01:36:56 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/password
01:36:57 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 55 May 14 22:08 wisdom/password
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01:37:09 <HackEgo> The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch
01:37:31 <oerjan> shachaf: since it was changed
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01:38:04 <oerjan> this password is going to the dogs
01:39:57 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> so much for precedents <-- um it was, in fact, a new month already.
01:41:14 <shachaf> `learn The password of the month is confusing
01:53:58 <HackEgo> The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch
01:54:43 <hppavilion[0]> Crossing the streams means taking the cross product of two infinite vectors
01:58:22 <oerjan> you may be misinterpreting some things hth
01:59:49 <ais523> *is* there a generalization of cross product to vector lengths other than 3?
02:00:01 <ais523> complex number multiplication seems like a connected concept (for length-2 vectors)
02:00:16 <ais523> but it clearly follows different rules
02:02:12 <hppavilion[0]> ais523: I seem to remember that there is one other dimensionality for which cross product is defined, but it's something useless to normal people like 74 or something
02:02:34 <hppavilion[0]> [then again, cross product in general is useless to normal people]
02:03:32 <hppavilion[0]> ais523: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-dimensional_cross_product
02:05:35 <shachaf> Slereah__ can probably tell us.
02:06:34 <shachaf> Since differential geometry is much better than vector calculus, isn't it?
02:22:35 <zzo38> I have used dot product (three, four, and homogenous kinds) in OpenGL fragment programs, but not cross product.
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03:50:08 <\oren\> that's a new one to me
03:51:40 <\oren\> I've seen WcDonald's and MgRonald's
03:51:44 <shachaf> Are you thinking of cDonald's Theorem?
03:53:32 <\oren\> http://ctrlv.in/954781
03:53:55 <\oren\> also this one is apparently next to a FamilyMart
03:54:14 <\oren\> based on the green white red sign
03:54:16 <shachaf> Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J9MRYJz9-4
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04:57:09 <zzo38> "You eat with your left hand!" - Zeux Agem to his evil clone
04:57:15 <zzo38> I was reading the All The Tropes article about Evil Twin and I found the mention of Mirror of Opposition and I remember I played the Dungeons&Dragons game too that included such mirror, which worked even after it broke, so I took the shards myself since my character is now immune. And I made up the Magic: the Gathering cards of both my character and his evil clone too.
05:10:42 <zzo38> Do you have to have surgery to do that?
05:22:47 <^v> https://joust.pxtst.com/ Befunge joust is back up
05:27:39 <myname> so not really a befunge joust in the way of bf joust?
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05:48:47 <zzo38> Since I wrote a shell script to play module musics using playmod (also a program I wrote), then it can easily to play at random by a command such as: ls | shuf | xargs -I {} aplaymod {} k=0
05:53:16 <zzo38> I think other music playing programs are simply don't work like that. Isn't it? This way is UNIX way rather than way other music playing programs are doing.
05:58:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzALK9gvrpw
06:04:47 <\oren\> Are you going to finish that kwaso?
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07:04:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'this page': This page illegally left blank.
07:11:16 <zzo38> "Xenogears has the Save Points being integrated into the story. It turns out that the save points were created by the bad guys & they've been using them to track the main characters' progress." But then what happens if you never save (if it is possible)?
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07:22:39 <zzo38> GURPS has enchantment spells (which are used to enchant objects to give them magic powers), but then, there should to need to add meta-enchantments, and also 'pata-enchantments.
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08:05:43 <\oren\> Hmm, I think I'll make a new firefox extension that will make all links to paywalled sites appear with a warning $$$ next to them
08:06:09 <\oren\> so you don't have to click and start scrolling first
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08:10:50 <hppavilion[0]> \oren\: You should make the website have a fake paywall
08:14:59 <HackEgo> In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
08:16:00 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] oerjän
08:17:15 <hppavilion[0]> Was it... hwg? hoag? hwa? PWN'GLUI MGLW'NAFH CTHULHU R'LYEH WGAH'NAGL FHTAGN?
08:22:22 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: Unpaywall works for academic sites at the lesat
08:31:46 <HackEgo> 9633:2016-11-06 <oerjän> revert \ 9632:2016-11-06 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn abyss/`? you \ 8679:2016-07-01 <oerjän> le/rn abyss/In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it\'s pretty much the same.
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12:09:27 <HackEgo> 3100:2013-06-12 <shachäf> echo "only ten pounds" | wisdom/otp \ 3098:2013-06-12 <shachäf> echo \'cat > wisdom/otp\' > wisdom/otp; chmod +x wisdom/otp
12:14:31 <boily> int-ello. indeed, everyone knows it's “one true pairing”.
12:15:06 <int-e> `` hg log --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -r 3099
12:15:07 <HackEgo> 3099:2013-06-12 <Taneb> pastelogs "Taneb..."
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12:16:46 <int-e> Taneb: well at least it wasn't a Tanebvention.
12:17:12 <Taneb> Bonjoily, hint-ello
12:17:36 <int-e> clearly, a wisdom entry that is sorely missing.
12:17:56 <Taneb> I must be the most accidentally mentioned person in the channel
12:17:59 <int-e> like a wisdom tooth
12:18:31 <int-e> I think the tanebventions make you the most frequently accidentally mentioned person here
12:18:43 <int-e> I get perhaps 2 per month, it's tolerable.
12:18:53 <boily> int-e int-e int-e int-e ♪
12:19:06 <int-e> boily: that didn't look very accidental.
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15:29:26 <int-e> $ cat /dev/input/mice
15:29:26 <int-e> cat: /dev/input/mice: Permission denied
15:31:09 <int-e> but... the poor cat
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15:58:31 <\oren\> the cat is constipated after eating it whole
15:58:34 <moonythedwarf> im curious what would happen if i chmod 0000'd canary
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16:23:29 <HackEgo> chmod: missing operand after ‘0000 canary’ \ Try 'chmod --help' for more information.
16:23:51 <HackEgo> ---------- 1 5000 0 0 Apr 17 19:17 canary
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17:53:13 <zzo38> I was looking for collaboration of TAVERN please tell me if you can help too http://www.intfiction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21890
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18:29:10 <zzo38> Do you have any help?
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19:13:13 <int-e> hmm, I don't think I've ever seen it put like that: "Ad blockers represent the largest consumer boycott in human history."
19:13:51 <Slereah__> What about going to the toilet when there's ads on TV
19:14:35 <shachaf> What book should I read to learn about differential geometry?
19:15:06 <Slereah__> Is it for general relativity or is it in general?
19:15:50 <Slereah__> The classic is Foundations of Differential Geometry by Kobayashi
19:16:03 <Slereah__> I like Hick's Notes on Differential Geometry
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20:02:41 <zzo38> Now I added a file for hints for the ZZT game I made up recently. Do you like this?
20:04:23 <int-e> hppavilion is reading QC
20:05:08 * moony goes back to freshly minted ##freetutorial (we want to help peopel new to IRC) instead of spying on #esoteric
20:05:15 <int-e> Well I can't always be lucky with my guesses :P
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20:15:10 -!- int-e has set topic: member visibilities: public, protected, private, vampire | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
20:15:32 -!- int-e has set topic: member visibilities: public, protected, private, vampiric | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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21:30:32 <\oren\> a vampiric property is not visible when you use reflection to inspect the class?
21:30:54 <\oren\> but otherwise is the same
21:31:43 <int-e> or, that was my idea indeed
21:42:16 <zzo38> O, that is what it is. OK
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22:59:18 <HackEgo> blsqbot//blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'.
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23:46:53 <HackEgo> This page illegally left blank.
23:48:59 <oerjan> `slwd this page//s,il.*y,intonationally,
23:49:02 <HackEgo> this page//This page intonationally left blank.
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23:53:06 <HackEgo> Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation.
23:54:03 <zzo38> Just intonation is a kind of music.
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23:56:34 <boily> quintopia: It was a shiny and humid day, right after a shower. Steam wafted from the mere asphalt, as far as the eye could see, or until it reached the highway.
23:58:00 <boily> Parking lots, even cracked by lack of human presence, kept their essence of dreadful capitalism. A small wiggling troop was ambling this way, its shape mixed with puddle mirages. Even from the distance, it smelled.
23:58:39 <boily> They groaned. They shuffled. They dropped a few limbs here and there, food for carrion.
23:59:30 <boily> They crossed the parking lot, they bumped into the mall, and remained there. Zombie flesh under the simmering sun is very sticky.
23:59:45 <boily> and now, it's time to grab a poutine. hungry...
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00:51:12 <oerjan> . o O ( do wikipedia mirrors miss the Vampire page )
00:51:28 <shachaf> what's with all the vampire talk in here
00:52:09 <shachaf> oerjan: that reminds me, there hasn't been a new olist in quite a while
00:52:46 <oerjan> maybe he hurt his hand again
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01:02:10 <zzo38> Why interrupting aplay is sometimes results in a assertion failed message? It seems to do that if it is interrupted when the audio is nearly finished playing.
01:02:30 <HackEgo> Cale: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:02:39 <shachaf> Cale: Do you like FRACTRAN?
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01:17:04 <Cale> shachaf: I've never attempted writing anything in it, but it's a neat idea
01:17:20 <shachaf> Do you like calico kittens?
01:17:35 <oerjan> fractran is the most rational programming language hth
01:18:30 <oerjan> `learn Fractran is the most rational programming language.
01:18:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'fractran': Fractran is the most rational programming language.
01:18:51 <shachaf> `slwd fractran//s.Fractran.FRACTRAN.
01:18:53 <HackEgo> fractran//FRACTRAN is the most rational programming language.
01:19:05 <shachaf> Cale: Are you going to Compose?
01:19:20 <shachaf> Unfortunately I won't be going.
01:20:28 <Cale> It's actually kind of ridiculous, I was just down in NYC a couple weeks ago, and now I'm flying down again. Probably could have thought this out better.
01:20:44 <shachaf> It's a short flight, isn't it?
01:20:56 <Cale> It's not so bad
01:20:59 <shachaf> Oh, but you have to go through US customs and all that.
01:21:19 <shachaf> Maybe just move to NY then?
01:21:26 <Cale> hah, we'll see
01:21:40 <shachaf> Actually you could move to CA while you're at it.
01:23:31 <zzo38> Do you know how to help with collaboration of TAVERN?
01:24:04 <shachaf> Cale: The keynote talk looks pretty good.
01:24:07 <Cale> I could go live with my sister and uncle up in the Yukon -- only then I'd *really* be paying for Internet service.
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01:35:00 <shachaf> You could move to Ontario, CA
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02:34:50 <shachaf> Cale: Ah, Tikhon will be there too.
02:34:56 <shachaf> The person you don't know, I guess.
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02:41:31 <shachaf> oerjan: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599092525/the-order-of-the-stick-reprint-drive/posts/1886231 hth
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04:02:42 <JX7P> I am trying to define a CMake define on the command line with -DOOPS_VERINFO="Oopsilon Development: date goes here"
04:03:00 <JX7P> but CMake thinks this is: "Oopsilon
04:03:07 <JX7P> is there some way of making it get the full string?
04:06:21 <oerjan> hm that makes no sense in a unixy shell, are you using windows?
04:06:53 <JX7P> i'm using both windows and linux to try this
04:07:02 <JX7P> in what way makes it no sense in a unixy shell?
04:07:16 <oerjan> because the shell wouldn't pass on the "
04:07:58 <JX7P> it should do given I escape it in the little script that invokes cmake for me
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04:08:27 <JX7P> i.e. CMAKEOPTS="-DOOPS_VERINFO=\"whatever\""
04:08:42 <JX7P> and CMake picks up the ", too: hence "Oopsilon
04:10:25 <JX7P> i can't find any record online of anyone trying to pass strings with spaces in them to cmake -D option so I fear it might outright not be able to handle that case
04:10:52 <oerjan> what does the line that passes CMAKEOPTS to cmake look like?
04:12:03 <JX7P> ${SCAN_BUILD} cmake "${cmake_opts}" ${src_root}
04:12:52 <JX7P> removing the quotation marks also results in it not working
04:13:02 <oerjan> which quotation marks?
04:13:10 <JX7P> the ones around ${cmake_opts}
04:13:57 <oerjan> you've given inconsistent information, which tells me you are not quoting lines literally.
04:14:02 <JX7P> you're right though: i tried doing this by manual invocation of cmake form the shell with -DOOPS_VERINFO="blah blah blah" and it worked, so something very odd is happening indeed
04:14:22 <oerjan> please tell me the relevant lines _exactly_.
04:14:29 <JX7P> the full script is: http://vpaste.net/up9MT
04:14:49 <JX7P> (though i've tried various permutations of all the stuff in there to no avail)
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04:16:48 <JX7P> i suspect it's possible sh wants me to quote something, or not quote something else, it's a hellish beast
04:19:02 <oerjan> try cmake $(echo ${cmake_opts})
04:20:40 <JX7P> unfortunately that didn't work
04:20:43 <JX7P> has same results
04:21:22 <shachaf> switch from cmake to bazel hth
04:22:00 <JX7P> i spent too much time changing build systems
04:22:00 <oerjan> or echo "${cmake_opts}", although i don't see why that should differ.
04:22:22 <JX7P> cmake mostly just works, indeed, it seems that what happened here wasn't cmake but rather the weirdness of sh
04:22:40 <JX7P> oerjan: no change
04:22:47 <oerjan> `` abc=test; echo $(echo "$abc")
04:23:20 <JX7P> that produces test on my shell
04:23:28 <JX7P> (both bash and ksh do this)
04:24:09 <JX7P> inserting an echo "${cmake_opts}" into the script produces -DOOPS_VERINFO:STRING="Oopsilon Development: Tue 16 May 2017 04:21:35 DST" <- which looks right, but somehow it isn't what cmake is getting
04:26:39 <oerjan> ok. try eval cmake "${cmake_opts}"
04:28:10 <JX7P> (with cmake_opts containing -DOOPS_VERINFO=\"${VERINFO}\" in case anyone else wants to write shell scripts to invoke cmake for them
04:28:16 <oerjan> eval manages to get rid of the " without splitting the arguments.
04:28:30 <JX7P> cheers for your help oerjan, sorry if I seemed rash at first, i've had a busy night
04:29:38 <zzo38> I thought I could to try to make up a format to enable using filters/encoders/decoders that use farbfeld so that can be use in many other program too (such as GIMP and whatever else), including using GUI forms and whatever. The command-line programs themself are not altered at all; only another file is used to tell them how to enable their use as plugins.
04:30:03 <JX7P> i noticed also that putting -DOOPS_VERINFO="${VERINFO}" directly into the cmake invocation in the script worked. but because I was in the "try weird things to see what happens" mindset I didn't think of the fact that I could have just used that (it isn't what i *really* wanted; i don't want OOPS_VERINFO to have special handling; but it's moot now that eval seems to be the magic trick)
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05:10:28 <zzo38> If making up the pokemon game one kind of rule can be that although all of your own pokemons are limited to level 100 all opposing trainers have all pokemons level 255 instead.
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05:39:01 <wob_jonas> ais was here yesterday and I missed it? damn
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05:47:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51909&oldid=51883 * Quintopia * (+722) Add undocumented (here) commands to wiki article. Some explanation of behavior is still missing.
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07:30:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numeriqueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51910 * Zzo38 * (+1542) Created page with "[[Category:Languages]][[Category:Unimplemented]][[Category:2017]] [[Numeriqueue]] is a esolang based on [[Call Queue]]. The program consists of a set of functions, which can..."
07:30:58 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeriqueue If it is no good then I can fix it.
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11:43:15 <HackEgo> do//Do or do not, there is no try.
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14:06:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Braingolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51911&oldid=51909 * Mayube * (+8) /* Quine */
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16:31:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51912&oldid=44993 * Zzo38 * (+240)
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16:46:17 <zzo38> Now it seem icanhazip is a CloudFlare service and so requires a valid Host header. If you use curl it still works though.
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16:48:20 <wob_jonas> `pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/splitting-up/
16:48:38 <HackEgo> pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/splitting-up/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
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17:13:16 <HackEgo> 1114) <Phantom_Hoover> i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier
17:13:20 <HackEgo> umlaut//Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable.
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17:51:24 <int-e> . o O ( hurray up folks, there's p(h)un to be had! )
17:53:03 <HackEgo> 1/2:intellectual property//Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ mnoqy//mnoqy used to be monqy before the earthquake. \ sense//Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei. \
17:53:09 <HackEgo> 2/2:source//Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox \ numbers//Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ...
17:54:00 <shachaf> those numbers are not very representative tdnh
17:54:41 <int-e> well all the digits are there
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18:18:52 <kerbal> Hi! I'm working on an esoteric programming language and I thought that I would ask the #esoteric community for feedback.
18:19:12 <HackEgo> Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
18:19:38 <HackEgo> kerbal: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
18:20:02 <kerbal> HackEgo: Thanks! Glad to be here
18:21:20 <kerbal> The language that I am working on is called Integ. The only data type in Integ is the integer; the only storage is a long, variable-length array of integers.
18:21:43 <kerbal> The only operators implemented so far are }x, the read operator which reads array location x; {xy, the write operator which writes y at location x (and that also declares and initializes to 0 new positions of the array up to the requested location if needed); and ]x, which prints the character whose numerical value is x.
18:21:56 <kerbal> I plan to add +, -, *, and /, the arithmetic operators.
18:22:10 <kerbal> Any suggestions for features? I want this to be really low-level while still being complete
18:23:13 <kerbal> One implementation of Hello, World: {(0)(72)](}(0)){(0)(69)](}(0)) {(0)(76)](}(0)){(0)(76)](}(0)) {(0)(79)](}(0)){(0)(32)](}(0)) {(0)(119)](}(0)){(0)(79)](}(0)) {(0)(114)](}(0)){(0)(76)](}(0)) {(0)(100)](}(0))
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18:25:23 <kerbal> (oh, and the parentheses are used to separate statements)
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18:25:42 <moony> Doing a lastditch effort to get AMDGPU drivers to work, fully upgrading jessie from jessie-backports and upgraded kernel to 4.11 Either its last ditch or i should've done this first :p
18:29:22 <wob_jonas> kerbal: wait, you notate read with } and write with { ? that's so backwards
18:29:46 <kerbal> Well, } points at the address, and { points away from it
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18:30:41 <kerbal> Yeah, you're right... I've got it backwards
18:31:10 <kerbal> Probably need to fix that
18:34:42 <kerbal> Corrected Hello World: }(0)(72)]({(0))}(0)(69)]({(0)) }(0)(76)]({(0))}(0)(76)]({(0)) }(0)(79)]({(0))}(0)(32)]({(0)) }(0)(119)]({(0))}(0)(79)]({(0)) }(0)(114)]({(0))}(0)(76)]({(0)) }(0)(100)]({(0))
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18:42:09 <kerbal> Also just implemented + and -
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18:45:52 <wob_jonas> kerbal: so what's unique in this language?
18:49:21 <kerbal> Well, I don't know if this is unique, exactly, but the array holding the integers starts at 0 members and can be expanded dynamically. Furthermore, if you have, for instance, only used the address 0 but you want to write to address 10, the language will automatically declare and initialize 1-9 to 0 for you, and will set 10 to whatever you specified.
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19:03:52 <wob_jonas> you have an infinite memory initialized with all zeros. ok. does this language have any sort of looping or flow control? does it have unique features that you haven't mentioned yet? and what sort of integers are these even, and where does the division round to and what happens on a division by zero?
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19:11:52 <kerbal> wob_jonas: The language has no looping or flow control yet. I haven't added any other unique features; I assume that the integers are arbitrary precision, as the interpreter uses Python. The division rounds down; the interpreter catches division by zero errors.
19:12:21 <kerbal> (Sorry, I'm new to language design)
19:13:32 <wob_jonas> and you have no indirect addressing yet, so this is just potentially infinite registers? or maybe I don't understand how this works
19:13:58 <wob_jonas> wait, } and { are operators, not statements, so you do have indirect
19:14:46 <kerbal> Yep... }, {, +, -, *, /, and ] are all operators
19:16:33 <kerbal> I don't know whether or not () would be considered an operator... () is an operator in C, and my () functions like the C version, but I don't treat () like other operators under the hood
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20:49:51 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnzSGSDhbqg
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21:06:40 <wob_jonas> has he been here or should we relcome him?
21:06:52 <HackEgo> aRaging: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:07:08 <shachaf> You should not relcome someone who isn't in the channel.
21:22:27 <int-e> wob_jonas: they joined, spammed, and left.
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22:40:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Timtomtoaster * New user account
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23:13:19 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OCzroB4nyA
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23:18:25 <LKoen> G O O D N I G H T O P I A
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23:19:15 <\oren\> ｙｏｕ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｆａｉｌ． Ｕｓｅ ｐｒｏｐｅｒ ｗｉｄｅ ｌｅｔｔｅｒｓ
23:19:36 <boily> ｑ ｕ ｉ ｎ ｔ ｅ ｌ ｌ ｏ ｐ ｉ ａ ！
23:21:38 <boily> hellorkin. you've stumbled on an æsthetics ritual hth
23:22:00 <Zarutian> god fracking damn it! I thought the widespacing disease was confined to the web and brouchers
23:23:11 <boily> Z a r u t e l l o n ! d o n ' t w o r r y , i t h a s p r o p e r l y s p r e a d e v e r y w h e r e l i k e a n æ t h e r e a l t o a s t .
23:24:16 <Zarutian> ya probably set your tab spacing to 16 spaces per tab character or some such
23:26:55 <\oren\> ｗｉｄｅ ｃｈａｒａｃｔｅｒｓ ｗｉｌｌ ｒｕｌｅ ｔｈｅ ｗｈｏｌｅ ｕｎｉｖｅｒｓｅ
23:27:17 <\oren\> ｂｙ ｃｒｕｓｈｉｎｇ ｙｏｕｒ ｐｕｎｙ ｎａｒｒｏｗ ｌｅｔｔｅｒｓ
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23:31:15 * boily mapoles \oren\. you are being insane. please be sane, like I am.
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23:32:44 <kerbal> progress report on Integ
23:33:07 <kerbal> I added 1-char input and a conditional operator
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23:41:31 <quintopia> boily: do the quebecois mostly still remember louis cyr?
23:42:37 <boily> there was a 2013 movie about him: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Cyr_:_L%27homme_le_plus_fort_du_monde
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23:48:46 <quintopia> how much thought was he given before the movie?
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23:49:30 <boily> background folk figure, but not much, I guess.
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23:55:01 <boily> except a spontaneous light edit session of the Wisdom PDF...
23:57:35 <quintopia> is there anything you have told yourself you would code given more time and energy?
00:00:19 <boily> I'd like to hook one of the µC I own to a bunch of servos and wheels to build an RC car ^^
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00:34:26 <quintopia> i have a list of things to do and I need to do one today and another one tomorrow and they are all too hard
00:35:07 <shachaf> scrap today and promise to yourself that you'll do two tomorrow hth
00:35:20 <quintopia> so many i just dont know how to do
00:35:27 <boily> do the things, and when they are done, they will be done.
00:35:57 <quintopia> shachaf: is the joy of procrastination worth paying 10 dollars for?
00:35:59 <boily> are they unspeakable things?
00:36:33 <shachaf> remember when CAD was worth more than USD?
00:36:59 <Zarutian> quintopia: can not put that in perspective. What does a 33cl can of Coca-Cola cost where you live?
00:38:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51913&oldid=51904 * Timtomtoaster * (+233) /* Introductions */
00:39:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51914&oldid=51913 * Timtomtoaster * (-18) /* Introductions */
00:40:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51915 * Timtomtoaster * (+311) Created page with "'''eWagon''' is a fairly concise queue- and stack-based language written by User:Timtomtoaster in 2017. Its name stands for '''E'''solang '''W'''ithout '''A''' '''Go'''od '''N..."
00:41:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51916&oldid=51915 * Timtomtoaster * (+29)
00:43:00 <Zarutian> what was the esolang called that was like befunge but had a recursive maze as playfield instead of simple torus?
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00:45:30 <quintopia> they would just be time consuming to describe
00:47:02 <Zarutian> quintopia: around 120 ISK last I checked
00:59:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:1167) <Sgeo> Ugh still hungry <Sgeo> After having a ball of salt (not a literal ball of salt0 <pikhq> Try a literal ball of salt. \ 883) <fizzie> What I learned on the Prolog course is that it's a good language if you need a thing that can say "No" a lot. \ 859) <kmc> yes Windows 98 installer, please perform a bad blocks scan of you
00:59:28 <HackEgo> 2/2:r virtual emulated hard drive <kmc> you have no idea how completely i control your so-called reality \ 825) <Taneb> Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months \ 496) <oerjan> theorem prover yada yada halting problem.
01:00:06 <Zarutian> quintopia: I took aceto to mean something on the line of 'but how is it with you then?' in context of Cola can prices.
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01:30:33 <quintopia> was i right? was it the one you wanted?
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01:45:15 <HackEgo> [U+00E6 LATIN SMALL LETTER AE]
01:45:52 <oerjan> oh, it just looks funny in the browser font
01:49:04 <boily> hellørjan. browsers are evil hth
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02:14:10 <HackEgo> integer//An integer is a number that does not contain a wildcard that matches any character other than a line feed.
02:15:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51917&oldid=51916 * Timtomtoaster * (+99)
02:17:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51918&oldid=51917 * Timtomtoaster * (+9)
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05:33:15 <HackEgo> 1/3:quine//`? quine \ tile shuffling//Tile shuffve games. ly addictie basis of many highling is th \ computer//Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the characters '1' and '0'. \ icbm//ICBMs are Crumbling Building Missiles. The I is currently classified. \ ance//Spelling of -ance/-ence words: advance, science, conference, ex
05:33:18 <HackEgo> 2/3:perience, finance, insurance, licence, performance, reference, assistance, balance, defence, difference, distance, evidence, acceptance, appliance, audience, compliance, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, preference, presence, sentence, sequence, substance, violence, absence, accordance, alliance, appearance,
05:33:22 <HackEgo> 3/3:assurance, attendance, circumstance, clearance, confidence, consequence, entrance, excellence, existence, fragrance, governance, guidance, independence, offence, refinance, residence, resistance, romance.
05:33:30 <shachaf> b_jonas: That wisdom entry is too long. That does not help.
05:34:00 <HackEgo> 8903:2016-08-09 <oerjän> le/rn tile shuffling/Tile shuffve games. ly addictie basis of many highling is th
05:45:16 * oerjan shuffles his feet. Ow!
05:46:16 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, https://esolangs.org/forum/
05:48:27 <oerjan> (to you never knowing)
05:49:06 <shachaf> Why would I know about it? I don't even have a wiki account.
05:49:28 <shachaf> I do read the wiki, though.
05:50:04 <oerjan> well it was mentioned in the community portal for ages
05:50:49 <shachaf> Also why doesn't Google index things that have been on the wiki for a while?
05:50:52 <shachaf> Am I just having bad luck?
05:51:11 <shachaf> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=site%3Aesolangs.org+trajedy
05:52:04 <oerjan> . o O ( we don't have a robots.txt, do we? )
05:52:16 <shachaf> There is a robots.txt but it shouldn't block wiki pages.
05:52:20 <shachaf> It's a couple of months old.
05:52:35 <shachaf> And I always forget what it's called so I tried Google search.
05:53:54 <oerjan> oh. it hasn't been put in the language list.
05:54:06 <oerjan> the only links are from its own pictures.
05:54:52 <shachaf> It's still linked from http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AllPages which isn't in robots.txt so I'd expect Googlebot to find it?
05:55:00 <shachaf> Oh, <meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"/>
05:55:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51919&oldid=51906 * Oerjan * (+14) /* T */ A trajic orphan story
05:57:34 <shachaf> What's with http://www.example.com/robots.txt ?
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05:57:54 <shachaf> Looks like it returns a gzipped response not marked as gzip
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08:56:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51920&oldid=49733 * Primo * (+2985) /* Updates to non-wrapping solutions */ new section
09:05:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck constants]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51921&oldid=51920 * Primo * (+75) /* Updates to non-wrapping solutions */
09:12:17 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/jaU0iTI.jpg
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11:25:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51922&oldid=51918 * Timtomtoaster * (-28)
11:26:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51923&oldid=51919 * Timtomtoaster * (+45) /* E */
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11:27:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51924&oldid=51923 * Timtomtoaster * (-45) /* E */
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11:30:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51925&oldid=51922 * Timtomtoaster * (+14)
11:30:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51926&oldid=51925 * Timtomtoaster * (+1)
11:31:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51927&oldid=51924 * Timtomtoaster * (+13) /* E */
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11:46:31 <HackEgo> fungot//fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
11:47:09 <Taneb> fungot, how confident am I feeling
11:47:09 <fungot> Taneb: i don't say that. :) then again i've never done anything in c++
11:47:35 <Taneb> fungot, should I do the thing anyway
11:47:36 <fungot> Taneb: and of course with fd3 the writing is a perl program, but i thought i'd hack up something for a personal fnord tutorial with our special guest start riastradh!!! eheheheheheheeheh...
11:47:53 <Taneb> That... that might be a yes?
11:52:19 <boily> fungot: eheheheheheheh :D
11:52:20 <fungot> boily: i was making a joke about something said a while ago. but i didn't want to
11:52:44 <boily> Tanelle. are you hooked on a feeling? ♪
11:54:06 <olsner> what would fungot say?
11:54:06 <fungot> olsner: crunch! crunch! crunch!
11:54:35 <int-e> fungot: compulsive joking is a curse
11:54:35 <fungot> int-e: i will agree to that. if you used a tc language?
11:54:46 <int-e> fungot: almost as bad as compulsive punning
11:54:47 <fungot> int-e: yet you do that, i'm thinking more along the lines of input. what happens
11:54:55 <Taneb> boily, I am certainly high on believing
11:56:13 <olsner> ah, the Blue Swede song was a cover of an earlier song, so it's not quite a Swedish export
11:56:34 <boily> Taneb: do you believ in life after love? ♪
11:56:58 <boily> hellolsner, int-ello.
11:58:04 <fungot> FireFly: there we go, " okay, it was censored.
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14:48:52 <kerbal> The GitHub for my new esolang, Integ, is live at https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ
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14:54:59 <LKoen> do you have example Integ programs?
15:03:01 <kerbal> There's a couple on GitHub, and I can put some here
15:03:47 <kerbal> One version of Hello World is }(0)(72)]({(0))}(0)(69)]({(0)) }(0)(76)]({(0))}(0)(76)]({(0)) }(0)(79)]({(0))}(0)(32)]({(0)) }(0)(119)]({(0))}(0)(79)]({(0)) }(0)(114)]({(0))}(0)(76)]({(0)) }(0)(100)]({(0))
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16:27:49 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/Programming_languages_with_unusual_features says BANCStar has "Block statements are (presumably) built-in to and executed by the VM, rather than being translated by a compiler at first."
16:28:51 <wob_jonas> How is that unusual? BASIC and Forth has had that forever. In fact, NEXT without FOR is error number 1 in BASIC interpreters these days.
16:33:41 <wob_jonas> zzo38: also there, FurryScript => No negative integer literals (although negative numbers are possible)
16:34:10 <wob_jonas> That is even less unusual. That feature was blessed by our prophets K&R.
16:35:42 <wob_jonas> OASYS => There are no general procedures, only methods that can be called on objects.
16:35:53 <wob_jonas> oh, you mean like in smalltalk or java? how unusual!
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16:39:24 <wob_jonas> OASYS => Pointer variables cannot be stored in save games (but OAC does not support pointer variables); normally pointer values exist only on the stack.
16:39:32 <kerbal> Some programming languages lack local variables?
16:39:37 <kerbal> That would be a headache
16:40:05 <wob_jonas> local variables were sort of invented after BASIC
16:40:18 <kerbal> In a huge program, that could cause issues
16:40:45 <wob_jonas> zzo38: like any C program on a modern system with ASR, or almost any C program that uses malloc and points int othat
16:41:00 <wob_jonas> I guess I should write these to the disc'n page
16:42:30 <kerbal> Speaking of dynamic storage allocation... wow that stuff is hard to work with. I tried to start my integ interpreter in C, but wrangling the pointers and everything else proved prohibitive.
16:42:35 <kerbal> That gives me an idea...
16:43:32 <kerbal> What about a language with no locals AND dynamic storage allocation? Does BASIC do that?
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16:58:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51928 * B jonas * (+2098) Created page with "== Not unusual == Some of these features you list are not unusual IMO. :BANCStar: Block statements are (presumably) built-in to and executed by the VM, rather than being tran..."
16:59:04 <moony> Question: Are rust macros turing complete?
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18:02:28 <\oren\> Businesswoman, 46, who called a family ‘f**ing s**ts’ on an Emirates flight to London and told crew to ‘give me some f***ing alcohol’ after downing five glasses of wine is fined nearly £1,000
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18:14:46 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, what happens if you increment an immediate in the VAX instruction set anyway
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18:57:19 <kerbal> Example programs added over at https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ
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19:34:00 <Phantom_Hoover> imo its the mk-55 but maybe they've patched it since i last played
19:36:57 <Phantom_Hoover> i also remember the days when everyone called the mainsail the mainfail but that was many, many patches ago
19:38:49 <kerbal> The Juno and Atomic engines are irritatingly slow imo, but I guess that's the point
19:39:55 <\oren\> I like using the poodle
19:40:11 <\oren\> I have a mod that makes it not so fugly tho
19:41:26 <kerbal> Good for landings, though
19:41:47 <kerbal> I personally overuse the Mammoth
19:42:59 <kerbal> Imo the Vector is awesome if you can control it
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19:46:29 <Phantom_Hoover> especially the turbojet of old which could literally fly faster than orbital velocity
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19:53:04 <kerbal> Phantom_Hoover: Have you seen the old videos where they made Kerbal-powered spaceships with literally just ladders and struts?
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19:55:01 <Phantom_Hoover> oh i see eva fuel is still replenished infinitely on getting in/out
19:55:19 <kerbal> I don't think the ladder glitch still works, but eva fuel should be infinite.
19:55:51 <kerbal> Still, I don't think that the amount of force exerted by eva thrusters would be practical for interplanetary trips
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20:45:00 <kerbal> Integ now has comments! https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ/
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20:46:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51929&oldid=51928 * B jonas * (-314)
20:51:21 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/eDbwaVePTd8?t=17m32s
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21:01:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51930&oldid=51926 * Timtomtoaster * (+14)
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21:52:11 <wob_jonas> fungot, what brand of aftershave do you use?
21:52:11 <fungot> wob_jonas: winamp ought to support at least a relatively similar instrument, the learning curve is too steep and i'm not talking of the minix book?
21:52:30 <HackEgo> 1/2:erudecorp//Erudecorp is the shortform of e-rude corporation. The term is used for corporations that are electronically rude. \ sftm//SFTM is the Science Fiction Theory of Mail. \ ant//Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways. \ gaszpacho//gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days
21:52:34 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ spice//The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice.
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21:53:00 <HackEgo> 6243:2015-11-23 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/e/E/\' wisdom/erudecorp \ 6230:2015-11-20 <mromän> learn erudecorp is the shortform of e-rude corporation. The term is used for corporations that are electronically rude.
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23:19:48 <HackEgo> a test word//another test word
23:19:59 <boily> int-e: int-ello. vampiric?
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23:21:13 <\oren\> helloily https://youtu.be/eDbwaVePTd8?t=17m32s
23:21:40 <HackEgo> west midlands//Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far.
23:24:27 <boily> he\\oren\, wellob_jellonas.
23:24:42 <\oren\> hmm, what if you repeatedly uploaded and took down the same video until the base64 number contained something you wanted?
23:25:19 * boily listens to the whole thing
23:25:27 <\oren\> the one for that video contains "waVe"
23:27:17 <wob_jonas> \oren\: that's an awful lot of waste of bandwidth. couldn't you use a redirect from another server that lets you put almost anything in the url; plus mention that thing in the description of the video, since youtube search listens to the video descriptions?
23:28:00 <\oren\> but that wouldn't be as kewl
23:29:22 <fizzie> int-e: You're a CaC customer as well, this might interest you -- esolangs.org request serving time over the last 30 days: https://zem.fi/tmp/esolangs-cac.png -- no idea what that almost-but-not-quite periodic thing is.
23:30:51 <wob_jonas> fizzie: probably some spam servers operate in a periodic manner
23:30:55 <boily> fizziello. moon phase.
23:32:25 <\oren\> what in the fuck is bixby
23:33:42 <\oren\> the voice assistant industry is becoming really crowded
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23:49:37 <lambdabot> ENKR 172220Z 34004KT CAVOK 03/01 Q1015 RMK WIND 731FT 35007KT
23:49:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 172200Z 23017G26KT 15SM BKN170 OVC210 27/16 A2969 RMK AC5CS3 SLP056 DENSITY ALT 1700FT
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00:05:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[C+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51933&oldid=45112 * Timtomtoaster * (+0)
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00:34:20 <lambdabot> KATL 172252Z 16011KT 10SM FEW075 SCT250 31/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP163 T03060122
00:34:41 <lambdabot> EGLL 172320Z 27007KT 8000 FEW005 BKN008 11/11 Q1013
00:41:15 <Remavas> oh you can get metars here? nice
00:41:35 <lambdabot> KLAX 172253Z 28013KT 10SM FEW015 FEW026 SCT200 17/12 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP122 T01720117
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00:50:50 <lambdabot> ESSB 172320Z AUTO 21003KT 9999 BKN004/// OVC009/// 13/12 Q1018
00:53:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51934&oldid=51932 * Timtomtoaster * (+2816)
00:53:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51935&oldid=51934 * Timtomtoaster * (-9)
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00:56:06 <moony> unsigned number x = 5; unsigned relative number y = x * x -> floor; // y is always equal to x*x -> floor, if x changes, y changes too
00:56:16 <moony> i had an idea, but still coming up with it
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00:58:25 <FireFly> see also reflexive programming, and spreadsheets
00:59:23 <FireFly> oh reactive programming, I meant
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01:00:57 <boily> reflexive programming is regular programming, with silent moments of contemplation...
01:02:51 <FireFly> if you show off your biceps, is that reflexive?
01:02:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51936&oldid=51935 * Timtomtoaster * (-70)
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01:05:05 <moony> FireFly, inspired by that, but as a optional feature
01:06:41 <moony> one of my main concepts is the use of 'transforms' instead of functions
01:06:55 <boily> biceps are strengthened by holding your head in your hands, when consternation overwhelms you.
01:07:15 <moony> instead of f(a, b, c) you'd do (a, b, c) -> f -> fs_output
01:07:58 <moony> (the -> fs_output part is optional)
01:08:26 <moony> want to clone something? x -> clone -> (y, z)
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01:33:00 <oerjan> fizzie: i believe int-e is no longer a CaC customer hth
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01:34:01 <shachaf> i,i Calculus and Constructions
01:34:44 <izabera> how does one stop being a cac customer?
01:41:15 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
01:41:18 <oerjan> izabera: int-e canceled his account when they started demanding a maintenance fee
01:41:49 <boily> hellørjan, izabellora, mhelloony.
01:42:14 <oerjan> it was inevitable, really, the whole thing was pyramid-scheme like
01:42:30 <shachaf> more ponzi than pyramid, isn't it
01:42:30 <izabera> i don't think you understand what a pyramid is
01:43:51 <oerjan> of course i understand, it's just a cone by a different name hth
01:44:02 <shachaf> it's more of a triangle scheme, really
01:44:08 <oerjan> and different default base shape
01:44:13 <shachaf> why don't they call it a tree scheme?
01:44:34 <shachaf> tree schemes are scow because the people at the leaves lose
01:44:44 <shachaf> that's why capitalism is based on a graph scheme with cycles
01:45:12 <FireFly> alternatively, everybody loses
01:45:16 <izabera> this is the best capitalist propaganda i've seen in a while
01:45:30 <oerjan> well the cycles cause trouble with garbage collection, obviously
01:45:53 <oerjan> ...you could think of the subprime mortgage crisis as a GC failure...
01:46:18 <izabera> it's just a stop the world gc
01:48:26 <oerjan> well, only when there are too many cycles for the reference counting to free stuff, obviously
01:49:48 <oerjan> . o O ( so, which GC scheme does communism use )
01:51:20 <HackEgo> RAII means you allocate in the constructor and deallocate in the destructor. There is no 'initializer' involved.
01:51:56 <oerjan> actually, probably something more inefficient.
01:52:21 <shachaf> `slwd raii//s,allocate in the constructor and ,,
01:52:25 <HackEgo> raii//RAII means you deallocate in the destructor. There is no 'initializer' involved.
01:52:46 <shachaf> I think that's more accurate in practice?
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01:55:17 <kmc> it's a stupid name at any rate
01:55:25 <kmc> b/c the destructor is the more interesting part
01:55:40 <kmc> there's nothing called an 'initializer' but you can say that the constructor does initialization
01:55:52 <kmc> (whether it's a special thing, as in C++, or just an ordinary function as in Rust)
01:56:23 <FireFly> How is RAII pronounced though?
02:00:54 <boily> you start off like "rail", but forget the "l".
02:01:50 <wob_jonas> boily: wouldn't that be like a ray?
02:02:03 <FireFly> that's what I was thinking
02:02:10 <shachaf> You start off like "raiil" but forget the "l".
02:05:40 <boily> it can't be a ray. it has a "y".
02:05:57 <boily> i,i ra ra rasputin.
02:06:09 <boily> (what the hell is "i,i" again...)
02:06:27 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
02:08:15 <boily> the "inb4 b&" I understand, but I still have no idea in fungot about "i,i".
02:08:15 <fungot> boily: there's really any degrees of truth which slimes and distracts from each and every value that's been given as an argument to foldl?
02:08:26 <boily> even though shachaf told me multiple times.
02:08:47 <shachaf> I don't like what it stands for, is the problem.
02:08:56 <shachaf> I,I looks like an owl face to me.
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02:49:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51937&oldid=51755 * Wheatwizard * (+170) Added Brain-Flak
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04:40:35 <MDude> 8*(1+sin((((t >> 10)*23&42)*t)+(((t>>10)*19&42))*t))
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05:59:12 <sleffy> So I'm writing up a basic-block style IR for my language. My dataflow graph internal to each basic block has initiators, transformers, and terminators, which receive changes in control flow (i.e. jumps jump to an initiator), transform data (e.g. add/sub) and terminate the basic block (transfer control to somewhere else.)
05:59:30 <sleffy> But I have a problem - terminators and transformers are both robots which tend to create significant collateral damage, and initiators are not.
05:59:43 <sleffy> Clearly this must be remedied
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07:33:36 <int-e> @tell boily vampiric members are invisible to reflection mechanisms
07:34:41 <int-e> fizzie: despite being no longer a CaC customer I'm still interested in hearing about all the ways in which they're strange or bad... I'm just no longer personally affected.
07:35:00 <int-e> and that graph looks very strange indeed
07:35:06 <izabera> what did they ask you to pay?
07:35:07 <int-e> maybye they're rotating VMs? :P
07:37:48 <int-e> izabera: They now have a $9/year "maintenance fee" if you only have "one time payment" plans. It's not all that much but just the idea of giving them my credit card information on a regular basis made me queasy :-P
07:39:05 <izabera> doesn't sound very one-timey
07:39:08 <int-e> izabera: also that's half of what the "lifetime" plan cost originally cost.
07:39:48 <int-e> ($35 for their cheapest offer, at a 50% discount, which they had almost permanently.)
07:42:44 <int-e> izabera: afaics the fee is per account though. *shrugs*
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08:14:38 <HackEgo> Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
08:19:39 <shachaf> `swrjan s,pheasant,& back,
08:19:42 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
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11:51:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 181000Z 17006KT 15SM FEW090 BKN240 20/15 A2973 RMK AC2CI5 SLP070 DENSITY ALT 900FT
11:51:48 <lambdabot> int-e said 4h 18m 12s ago: vampiric members are invisible to reflection mechanisms
11:52:13 <boily> int-ello. makes sense.
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12:18:21 <boily> "the +10 battleaxe "Qael" (weapon) {chop, rElec}". mwah ah ah.
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13:26:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Charcoal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51938 * Somebody1234 * (+1265) Created page with "Charcoal is an ASCII-art oriented prefix golfing language designed by the [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com| Programming Puzzles and Code Golf] users [https://codegolf.stack..."
13:30:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51939&oldid=51937 * Somebody1234 * (+34)
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13:47:52 <kerbal> Would anyone be willing to create an Integ wiki page? For various reasons, I can't. I can supply the creator with any necessary info, though
13:48:22 <kerbal> Integ is my new esolang and can be found at https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ
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14:44:11 <wob_jonas> I just bought an Alcatel 2008G grandmaphone. I'm emphasizing the exact type Alcatel 2008G here because I want to give a negative review.
14:45:02 <wob_jonas> THIS PHONE USES A FONT THAT PROBABLY COVERS ONLY ISO-8859-1 AND SUBSTITUTES "ő" FROM ANOTHER FONT THAT LOOKS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. And it does have Hungarian localization, so it does use "ő" in menu entries.
14:45:29 <wob_jonas> You sometimes see that problem in computers with bad fonts, but I paid for this.
14:46:06 <kerbal> Substituting fonts looks weird
14:46:17 <wob_jonas> I should try one of the several noname brand phones the next time.
14:47:15 <wob_jonas> This sort of feels like a downgrade, because I'm replacing an older Alcatel grandmaphone model, and that one didn't have this font problem.
14:47:46 <wob_jonas> (On the upside, this one has a wriststrap hook hole in the chasis, the old one didn't.)
14:48:15 <kerbal> Why would anyone need a wriststrap?
14:48:36 <kerbal> It's a phone, not a Wiimote
14:49:38 <wob_jonas> kerbal: to not drop or lose the phone
14:49:55 <wob_jonas> wriststrap or neckstrap, either way, the hole is the same
14:50:37 <wob_jonas> (well, technically there are two kinds of neckstrap holes, but the bigger one is used only in heavier electronics like cameras)
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14:53:38 <wob_jonas> kerbal: it's an Alcatel 2008G, you can find what it looks like on the internet
14:53:53 <wob_jonas> not really brick, they make it way too light for that
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14:54:39 <kerbal> It sort of resembles a heavily used bar of soap, I guess
14:54:50 <wob_jonas> well, it is heavier than my phone, I admit
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15:09:37 <izabera> is there a c compiler on hackego?
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15:10:34 <izabera> `` echo -n >izash.c 'char s[99],*p[9],**q;main(){for(;putchar(36),q=p,*q++=strtok(gets(s)," ");fork()||execvp(*p,p),wait(0))for(;*q++=strtok(0," "););}'
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15:10:53 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘-’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
15:11:13 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘--’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
15:11:25 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: clang: not found \ gcc is /usr/bin/gcc
15:11:32 <izabera> `` gcc -w izash.c -o izash
15:11:37 <HackEgo> /tmp/cc5aVwZQ.o: In function `main': \ izash.c:(.text+0xa2): warning: the `gets' function is dangerous and should not be used.
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15:12:09 <izabera> `` ./izash <<< $' echo hello from izash!!! \n ls / \n pwd'
15:12:10 <HackEgo> hello from izash!!! \ bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ /hackenv \ $$$$
15:12:26 <izabera> guess i can remove the prompt for hackego
15:12:51 <izabera> `` echo -n >izash.c 'char s[99],*p[9],**q;main(){for(;q=p,*q++=strtok(gets(s)," ");fork()||execvp(*p,p),wait(0))for(;*q++=strtok(0," "););}'
15:12:55 <izabera> `` gcc -w izash.c -o izash
15:12:58 <HackEgo> /tmp/ccciTm61.o: In function `main': \ izash.c:(.text+0x98): warning: the `gets' function is dangerous and should not be used.
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15:16:09 <wob_jonas> izabera: yes, there is a C compiler
15:16:40 <wob_jonas> `! c #include <stdio.h> \n int main(void) { printf("hello, world,\\n"); return 0; }
15:22:21 <HackEgo> ! is a shell keyword \ ! is /hackenv/bin/!
15:22:35 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after ‘izash /hackenv/bin’ \ Try 'mv --help' for more information.
15:22:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `mv: not found
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16:43:38 <wob_jonas> I'm testing the grandmaphone further. Sadly the interface seems worse than that of the previous model.
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16:48:51 <wob_jonas> When entering text, the star button doesn't just switch between upper and lower case. It cycles around 37 modes, never skipping anything, the 37 being {english, polish, czech, hungarian, slovakian, romanian}*{smart, traditional}*{uppercase, lowercase, upper only at sentence start} + numeric.
16:50:06 <wob_jonas> So to switch to upper case, you have to hold down the star button to get a menu, then use the arrow buttons to go up from slovakian smart to hungarian uppercase.
16:52:32 <FireFly> izabera: executables with names longer than 8 characters considered harmful?
16:52:41 <wob_jonas> This seems like a really bad idea for a grandmaphone. My grandma will be cycling around random entry modes, in which acessing á and é requires a different number of keystrokes.
16:52:57 <FireFly> okay, more than 9 arguments? :P
16:53:28 <FireFly> or well 8 arguments + argv[0] I guess
16:54:03 <izabera> p[9] must be NULL for execve
16:54:11 <FireFly> ah right, that makes sense
16:54:47 <izabera> i mean p[8] but you got what i meant
16:55:14 <wob_jonas> Though I appreciate the fact that even in Hungarian modes, pressing 8 three times gives a letter "v". I don't know who invented the stupid keypress order "tuúüűv", but all the smses my grandma writes almost never have a letter "v", it has other letters substituted.
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17:45:41 <HackEgo> olist 1071: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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19:09:28 <Vorpal> I'm utterly confused by some strange hardware(?) issues I'm having. I'm getting periodic timeouts from a single disk under Windows, booting to Linux, I can't reproduce the issue. Even tried attaching the disk to a Windows VM in Linux and running a similar workload, no issues
19:09:58 <wob_jonas> Vorpal: what sort of disk, attached through what sort of bus, and is your motherboard faulty?
19:10:17 <Vorpal> wob_jonas: WD something (let me check), SATA. 2 TB 7200 RPM disk
19:10:48 <wob_jonas> have you tried testing with another motherboard?
19:11:06 <Vorpal> wob_jonas: don't have that option, could try it via ESATA maybe
19:11:41 <wob_jonas> bad hard disks are usually not worth to debug, just replace it if it's really the disk, but you do have to check that it's not a motherboard problem.
19:12:20 <Vorpal> wob_jonas: I'm not sure it is the disk though, since it started about a week after getting my new graphics card
19:12:55 <Vorpal> I might go back to the old card to check if it is a power issue.
19:13:10 <Vorpal> annoying though, since I switched from AMD to nVidia
19:13:13 <wob_jonas> make sure your backups are up to date in any case, regardless if it's the disk or the motherboard
19:13:24 <Vorpal> of course my backups are up to date
19:13:48 <Vorpal> wob_jonas: why would it affect a particular disk and not the other 3 disks of the same model in the computer though?
19:14:11 <wob_jonas> I have a hard disk where I've got a disk error exactly twice in many years of use. it could be a motherboard problem though, I'm not sure.
19:14:13 <Vorpal> Tried moving the disks between different power connectors, didn't change a thing either
19:14:27 <Vorpal> And why not under Linux
19:15:42 <Vorpal> Yeah I guess I'll have to reinstall the old GPU for a bit and experiment with that. Problem is the issue mostly happen when under load, and I can't run many games on the old card. It was really old
19:17:02 <wob_jonas> I have to buy a new computer (has been due for like a year now), so that will work around the problems with this motherboard (there certainly are some, I'm just not sure the disk error was that),
19:17:36 <wob_jonas> and I'm no longer using that disk much anyway, simply because it's old and small (250 decimal gigabytes I think)
19:17:40 <Vorpal> I could try different sata cables too
19:18:28 <Vorpal> different mobo connector might work, since it isn't a boot disk. Moving boot disk around breaks UEFI boot records on my board and is annoying to fix
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22:15:46 <\oren\> Windows 10 supports 52,000 different unicode family emojis
22:16:12 <Taneb> I suspect that they aren't all hand designed
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22:18:41 <wob_jonas> The interface of this phone is even more horrible than I thought.
22:19:21 <\oren\> Taneb: they're composited with SVGs
22:19:54 <\oren\> soon emojis will be a polysynthetic language
22:19:56 <wob_jonas> If you choose an entry from the contacts list, you can't dial it by just pressing the green button, any number of times. If you do that, it just cycles between view, edit contact, save contact, in a loop of eventually 4 clicks.
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22:20:45 <wob_jonas> No combination of the green button or the ok button (which is in the middle of the directional buttons) helps either. The ok button just cycles more quickly.
22:21:14 <wob_jonas> Nor does pressing down in view contact mode to select the phone number line (as opposed to the name line) help.
22:21:55 <\oren\> You can't *yet* do BLACK HAIR LIGHT SKIN WOMAN GLARING + REDHEAD MEDIUM LIGHT SKIN MAN WITH RED SLAP MARK + BLONDE DARK SKIN WOMAN TIPPING HAND
22:22:31 <\oren\> and make a family out of them but soon, soon
22:22:45 <Taneb> Ugh, I'm getting really tired
22:22:48 <Taneb> I have an exam in the morning
22:23:12 <wob_jonas> You have to enter the menu by pressing the green button in the contact list, press down to select "call", then press the green button or the ok button; or press the green button in the contact view mode to open the menu, press up to select "call", then press the green button or the ok button.
22:23:27 <wob_jonas> Who invented this shit? My grandmother will be seriously confused.
22:23:39 <wob_jonas> The previous alcatel telephone she had has an actually good interface
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22:28:19 <wob_jonas> Have you ever seen such a stupid phone?
22:32:05 <wob_jonas> Also it seems I can't set an image as the on-screen image for calls in a contact if the JPEG image is larger than some limit that's between 16 kilobytes and 32 kilobytes. At least I think it's the file size that matters, it's hard to tell, all it says is not enough memory.
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22:56:06 <lambdabot> CYUL 182100Z 23021G28KT 15SM FEW050TCU FEW240 29/16 A2960 RMK TCU1CI1 SLP024 DENSITY ALT 2100FT
22:56:19 <boily> TCU. it's gonna +TSRA tonight baby!
22:56:51 <lambdabot> EGLL 182150Z AUTO 30004KT 9000 -RA BKN027 10/09 Q1011 TEMPO RA
22:57:05 <fizzie> Just -RA TEMPO RA here.
22:57:58 <lambdabot> LOWI 182150Z AUTO 12012G23KT 070V170 9999 FEW100 22/09 Q1012
22:58:58 <boily> biking with front wind, with pollen allergies, is fun!
22:59:05 * boily shakes his fist at the weather
22:59:07 <int-e> (well, this would be a nice temperature if it were daytime)
23:02:11 <HackEgo> do//Do or do not, there is no try.
23:02:19 <HackEgo> 611) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks <shachaf> Well, in theory.
23:02:20 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA! I'm overheating, sneezing, hurting, sniffing and complaining!
23:02:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: don: not found
23:03:03 <quintopia> oh has spring only just sprung up there?
23:06:37 <HackEgo> 676) <fungot> elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, spa
23:07:58 <quintopia> i cant find the nearest weather station
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23:09:53 <boily> quintopia: you'ren't atlanting?
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23:10:40 <boily> int-ello. not quite hth
23:12:06 <lambdabot> KVJI 182155Z AUTO 28008G15KT 10SM SCT100 28/16 A3009 RMK AO2 T02830160
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23:19:44 <HackEgo> 961) <kmc> living in the middle ages sounds a lot better once you realize that deep frying had already been invented
23:20:16 <lambdabot> CYYZ 182200Z 24027G37KT 15SM FEW040CB 29/15 A2965 RMK CB2 LN CB NW-NE SLP039 DENSITY ALT 2600FT
23:29:29 <\oren\> WHO PUT FRENCH VANILA COFFEE IN THE COFEE MACHINE
23:29:38 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:34:02 <boily> he\\oren\. there are people out there who disrespect coffee.
23:42:04 <\oren\> ARGH teh pantry has vanilla and mapple coffee gorunds!
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23:55:46 <\oren\> I need gordon ramsay to come here and explain what good coffee is supposed to be like
23:56:10 <HackEgo> RAII means you deallocate in the destructor. There is no 'initializer' involved.
23:56:28 <\oren\> shachaf: tea is not cafenated enuf
00:01:02 <\oren\> although, what woud happen if I put finely ground tea in a espresso machine?
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00:09:48 <boily> good coffee is either sourj or French press. a good espresso must be drank within ten seconds of being brewed.
00:10:07 <boily> \oren\: you should try Hong Kong style milk tea. very potent.
00:10:08 <oerjan> shachaf: what's a back principal twh
00:10:19 <HackEgo> Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
00:10:37 <shachaf> oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerioporus_squamosus hth
00:11:26 <boily> \oren\: I also poured coffee in yerba mate once. very dangerous.
00:13:28 <oerjan> i guess i must be distantly related to fungot.
00:13:29 <fungot> oerjan: some nets have means for tracking users across netsplit reconnects :( putty doesn't like that openbsd. openbsd users probably participate in the feeble srfi 43 discussion from someone other than me like to sit on
00:15:48 <HackEgo> 43) <apollo> Maternal instincts? <apollo> Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops? \ 319) <elliott> oerjan: but hypothetically, assume a Christian spontaneously materialised during the apocalypse \ 431) <oerjan> i try to be a hermit but it's hard with all these housemates. \ 442) <NihilistDa
00:16:37 <HackEgo> 543) <fizzie> It's just electricity, how dangerous could it be? \ 620) <fizzie> Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it? <elliott> fizzie: Yes. <elliott> There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing. \ 820) <Fiora> usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it
00:17:49 <HackEgo> 661) <ais523> `delquote 419 * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) \ 1296) <shachaf> please make a connection between L1, L2, L3 norm and L1, L2, L3 cache twh <Jafet> shachaf: modern caches actually use the L∞ metric (t
00:18:16 <HackEgo> 1296) <shachaf> please make a connection between L1, L2, L3 norm and L1, L2, L3 cache twh <Jafet> shachaf: modern caches actually use the L∞ metric (they can go eight ways)
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01:17:52 <\oren\> argh, we could have had these awesome german words but instead we have "dwarf planet" and "planemo"
01:17:56 <\oren\> with a proposed classification scheme labeling all sub-stellar objects in hydrostatic equilibrium as "planets" and subclassifying them into "überplanets" and "unterplanets"
01:18:20 <\oren\> pluto isn't a dwarf planet it is a filthy unterplanet
01:19:18 <\oren\> thwe moon is also an unterplanet
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01:23:23 <boily> the moon is a moon hth
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01:30:42 <oerjan> are you sure it's not a space station
01:31:10 <HackEgo> moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:31:51 <shachaf> do the events of dwarf fortress take place on a dwarf planet? twh
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01:52:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51940&oldid=51929 * Zzo38 * (+1601)
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02:19:29 <oerjan> `` grep -l -i -r byte bin
02:19:37 <HackEgo> bin/len.pl \ bin/udcli \ bin/emmental \ bin/dao \ bin/macro \ bin/multicode \ bin/jq \ bin/searchlog \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/7za \ bin/lua \ bin/tclkit \ bin/len \ bin/units
02:19:51 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
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02:42:14 <lambdabot> CYUL 190100Z 22014KT 15SM FEW050CB SCT100 SCT240 25/14 A2959 RMK CB1AC2CI1 DIST LTNG NW SLP022 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
02:42:37 <boily> time to unwindow...
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02:54:40 <Destructible> I'm here because I got kicked from the nineteenth byte for using emojis and then getting annoyed about being kicked
03:05:28 <zzo38> I thought of idea if a PNG encoder can have three parts all working together, rather than as separate units: DEFLATE, filter selection, and optionally lossy coding.
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03:21:27 <oerjan> . o O ( so what we must do to get PPCGers here is to get them kicked. check. )
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03:25:06 <oerjan> the nineteenth byte is PPCG's main chat IIUC.
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03:25:22 <ASCII-only> yeah it is (sorry just joined i can't see history)
03:26:21 <ASCII-only> oh yeah sorry i think i need to get my eyes checked :P
03:27:12 <oerjan> i'm already too addicted if i'm not going to start chatting there as well.
03:28:08 <oerjan> they are pretty eso, although not necessarily my favorite kind of eso.
03:28:24 <oerjan> so they're definitely on topic.
03:28:52 <oerjan> and people here have made them.
03:29:23 <oerjan> (also this place is not big on on-topicness.)
03:29:46 <izabera> i think i just found a bug in gnu grep
03:29:59 <oerjan> seriously, has PPCG started moving a lot faster in recent days? or am i just looking at too many of the posts.
03:30:01 <ASCII-only> wall TNB is not that big on on-topicness either
03:30:04 <izabera> `` grep -oP '\b.*?06.*?\b' <<< 'meow meow foo bar06baz bat meow'
03:30:18 <ASCII-only> it was a lot faster when it was trying to graduate
03:30:47 <oerjan> well, i've only been there for a few months.
03:31:01 <ASCII-only> everyone was setting themselves daily challenge writing quotas and whatnot
03:31:23 <oerjan> i haven't written a challenge yet, i'm an answer kind of guy.
03:31:34 <ASCII-only> oerjan: wait really? what username are you using
03:31:36 <oerjan> (also mostly a haskell kind of guy)
03:33:20 <oerjan> oh my comment about must have been confusing, there was someone here just before who _had_ been kicked from there and so came here.
03:33:49 <oerjan> i _swear_ i type words that disappear when i press enter
03:35:26 <zzo38> Is there algorithm to reduce a picture to a specified palette in a way that takes compression into account?
03:37:32 <oerjan> izabera: what's wrong about it?
03:38:09 <izabera> `` echo hi mom foo x bar | grep -oP '.*?x'
03:38:43 <zzo38> Yes, for example so that backreferences are more likely to match and whatever
03:39:40 <oerjan> izabera: it finds the match that starts as early as possible, that's what i would expect.
03:39:42 <ASCII-only> izabera: well pcre, js, python and golang all print "hi mom foo x"
03:40:05 <izabera> i didn't try other languages yet
03:40:25 <oerjan> the *? only applies after you've already chosen the starting point
03:40:26 <ASCII-only> what i'm saying is that this is the behavior in all regex-like engines mnot just grep
03:41:29 <oerjan> how would you expect it to do anything else?
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03:42:29 <ASCII-only> izabera: if you don't like it then go write your own regex engine
03:42:33 <izabera> idk, in that case one could simply walk backwards i guess
03:42:59 <ASCII-only> izabera: yeah but it's slower and you could rearrange it to do what you want
03:43:41 <oerjan> izabera: what would you want to happen with "hi mom foo x hi mom bar x baz"?
03:44:09 <oerjan> that's a bit inconclusive
03:44:35 <oerjan> make that "hi mom foo x hi mom bar y baz" and change x to [xy]
03:45:00 <izabera> so this doesn't actually extract html tags correctly at all <.*?title.*?>.*?<.*?/.*?title.*?>
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03:46:16 <zzo38> PCRE supports callouts which you can do many thing. I have made a SQLite extension that uses PCRE with callouts. For example, it can be use for figuring out the color identity of a Magic: the Gathering card.
03:46:20 <ASCII-only> except the first one accepts characters in more places
03:46:43 <ASCII-only> izabera: https://regex101.com/r/E63lVM/1
03:47:16 <izabera> <meow><title>foobar</title>
03:56:15 <ASCII-only> ok about the wisdom pdf i think there is an error, piet isn't a colourful programming language, colorforth is
03:56:42 <ASCII-only> also cool how did funciton make into the book
03:58:21 <izabera> always wanted to ask: do you need like a special editor to write colorforth?
03:59:43 <zzo38> How good do you think might be an algorithm (for PNG encoding) like: [1] Decide filters. [2] Make up Huffman tree for the data with decided filters. [3] Make up LZ77 for best compression, redeciding filters and making up the new Huffman tree. [4] Encode using the new filters and Huffman tree.
04:00:21 <zzo38> Optionally apply lossy encoding during the fourth step if such option is enabled.
04:02:04 <oerjan> ASCII-only: you are mistaken, piet is definitely colorful hth
04:02:33 <ASCII-only> well yeah but colorforth deserves its spot
04:03:14 <oerjan> well the wisdom is not really a language list, even if it contains some.
04:03:21 <HackEgo> Piet is a really colourful programming language.
04:03:31 <ASCII-only> or just replace it with <s>braincopter</s> <s>brainloller</s> something else
04:03:54 <ASCII-only> also i'm wondering what kind of chatbot fungot is
04:03:55 <fungot> ASCII-only: gnirtslen strikes me as intellectual dishonest. you would pass fnord to csc.
04:04:09 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
04:04:39 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
04:04:50 <oerjan> fungot: is everything all right with the world?
04:04:50 <fungot> oerjan: west and i did not do so.
04:05:01 <oerjan> fungot: you're not even trying!
04:05:02 <fungot> oerjan: so at length the light streamed on again, flooding the marine valley below me.
04:10:58 <ASCII-only> #esoteric needs a markov chain chatbot as well
04:12:48 <ASCII-only> markov chain chatbots are the best: https://chat.stackexchange.com/users/190995/marky-markov?tab=recent
04:13:31 <oerjan> fungot _is_ a markov chain chatbot
04:13:32 <fungot> oerjan: " then he told me his story; and when i heard the poor musicians feeble effort to rise from the floor by this part of new york and the upper end of the old papers spread beneath the stones of the city with the greatest reluctance, and did not see what he had read much of things as they are with their hundred gates and two hundred turrets, the clustered towers within, all tell a gloomy tale of fallen grandeur. as the hin
04:14:03 <oerjan> except it has variable context length, and several predefined styles
04:14:50 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
04:15:04 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
04:15:12 <oerjan> fungot: you're in britain now, how is that brexit going?
04:15:13 <fungot> oerjan: madam president, there are amendments nos 1, 3, 4 and 7 were adopted, we have not wanted or known how to manage and allocate the ecsc reserves, taking account of an informal nature.
04:15:45 <oerjan> i say it's avoiding the question.
04:17:15 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
04:17:27 <ASCII-only> fungot: what is your favourite esolang
04:17:28 <fungot> ASCII-only: of course it would also be useless. what is it in the us however, and rabbit was intended to lead one to believe that large gathering of people classified as ' nice' storm over here is what happens when you try to
04:18:16 <ASCII-only> fungot why did you cut off mid-sentence
04:18:16 <fungot> ASCII-only: instead of writing portable code that _can_ handle utf-8. i was. but riastradh knows what scheme i'm using
04:18:38 <oerjan> fungot's babbling does have some subtle bugs.
04:18:38 <fungot> oerjan: i killed the window at people?!) the lifetime of the scheme community is younger than python the pretty good cl compiler, of all things
04:20:53 <fungot> ASCII-only: i should really get to work right. it defines an anonymous function
04:23:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Drift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51941&oldid=51845 * Hsorenson * (-67) Removed Turing complete claims since I have yet to properly prove it.
04:29:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Charcoal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51942&oldid=51938 * Somebody1234 * (+320)
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05:18:28 <zzo38> On the first scanline of a PNG picture, I think that filter type 2 will be same as filter type 0. Will any program take this into account when encoding?
05:38:45 <zzo38> (It is unlikely to make it better, but maybe there might be a few rare cases where it might help)
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05:58:16 <adu> hppavillion?
05:59:01 <zzo38> Now I wrote a program to make a list of the chunks in a PNG file.
05:59:52 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/ZaGE
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16:32:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51943&oldid=51927 * RomanGraef * (+16)
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16:47:19 <\oren\> Rape charges dropped against Julian Assange in Sweden.
16:47:21 <\oren\> https://www.rt.com/uk/388924-assange-press-conference-embassy/
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17:00:33 <kerbal> The interpreter for the Integ esoteric programming language now supports Unix and Mac.
17:00:41 <kerbal> Get the interpreter here: https://github.com/kerbin111/Integ
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18:19:45 <\oren\> Alexa, buy a kilo of butter. Confirm purchase. This message brought to you by the butter producers association of america.
18:21:46 <quintopia> have they not added a confirmation passphrase patch yet?
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18:26:23 <\oren\> there's a four digit pin capability, but you'd have to change it every time...
18:26:45 <\oren\> there should be a confirmation text system
18:26:58 <shachaf> To prevent commercials from buying butter?
18:27:35 <\oren\> saying your password out loud would work for commercials, but not for, for example kids
18:28:38 <zzo38> They should to allow to make your password longer than four digits; four digits is too short
18:29:44 <zzo38> I think there are a lot of problem with the voice controls though you might as well disable it (or at least disable some functions with voice command anyways)
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18:30:23 <zzo38> Although there are ways to fix it anyways, such as to ask question with different answers each time.
18:31:05 <zzo38> But then they are just going to invent voice-activated commercials.....?
18:45:19 <quintopia> alexa wouldnt work without voice. it has no other interface...or does it?t
18:48:02 <zzo38> There still is the way to fix it even if it is only voice, as I mention
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19:09:30 <izabera> http://bigkneelover.deviantart.com/
19:16:12 <int-e> why does every piece of shitty javascript these days need cookies to work...
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19:51:23 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: do what
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20:13:17 <\oren\> lol, I was a regular on /b/ in middle school lol
20:13:31 <\oren\> BOOM BOOM CRASH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1gwniVmQ6A
20:30:16 <\oren\> That's the sound of the corporate police breaking down your door to seize your hard disks
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21:47:19 <moony> i just had a fun question: is AE2 (the minecraft mod) turing complete
21:49:11 <Slereah> Isn't Minecraft already Turing complete
21:49:18 <Slereah> You can implement logical gates
21:49:32 <moony> yea, im talking about a subset mod
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21:53:45 <moony> i know the dispensers+doors+woodenbuttons+redstone dust subset is turing complete (Doors can be used as a NOT gate)
21:54:12 <moony> altho, it would be somewhat fuzzy logic, due to dispenser randomization
21:54:33 <moony> oh, forgot any nonconductive block in that list
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22:12:52 <FireFly> I man you can do a not gate with just redstone (assuming you include redstone torches in that)
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22:13:18 <FireFly> pretty sure redstone dust, redstone torch, <any solid block>, air is all you need for TCness, ignoring space constraints
22:17:43 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/uN6i3W07ohk?t=13m30s <-- Oh god, dat tokyo metro computerized voice
22:25:32 <\oren\> Did they just get on the nearest JR Rail train and record the announcements? I mean, sure it's cool but I bet it sounds less cool when you've heard that voice every day on your morning and evening commutes
22:31:53 <kerbal> What languages are the voice speaking? English and Japanese?
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22:33:39 <\oren\> all the trains in Tokyo have announcements at each stop in English and Japanese
22:36:30 <FireFly> I can't remember if all of ours do too, or only some.. I think all
22:37:01 <\oren\> In Toronto, we have announcements in English and French
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22:37:44 <fizzie> King's Cross underground station's announcements come from an obvious text-to-speech synthesizer system.
22:37:49 <\oren\> I think the streetcars are only in english
22:38:11 <kerbal> fizzie: Why text-to-speech? Why not pre-recorded or live?
22:38:29 <fizzie> kerbal: I've wondered. Maybe they think it makes it easier to change the messages.
22:38:40 <fizzie> They did recently alter the wording of one of them, at least.
22:39:23 <fizzie> It used to say "use the same card to touch in and out to get the best fare", now it is "use the same [unintelligible, something longer] to touch in and out".
22:40:13 <fizzie> It might be trying to say something about smartphones, the machines accept Apple Pay and Android Pay.
22:41:08 <\oren\> the subways say "Please stand clear of the doors" a lot
22:41:29 <fizzie> On Victoria Station at semi-rush hour there's usually a live announcer doing that bit.
22:41:40 <kerbal> fizzie: Is that clearer?
22:41:50 <fizzie> "Stand clear of the closing doors, please. Mind the doors. Stand clear of the doors! STAND CLEAR. OF THE DOORS. STAND CLEAR!"
22:42:04 <fizzie> Mostly they sound more emotional (frustrated).
22:42:32 <kerbal> Ah... maybe the text-to-speech prevents injuries from burst blood vessels
22:42:56 <\oren\> Ours uses pre-recorded samples stitched togther
22:43:34 <fizzie> I like one pre-recorded South West Trains announcement. "This train is experiencing difficulties, which are being dealt with. Please listen for further announcements."
22:43:39 <\oren\> "Arriving at." "Queen's Park." "Queen's Park Station." "Please stand clear of the doors."
22:43:59 <fizzie> That comes about maybe once a week, but it never seems clear what the difficulties are, they don't stop for any longer than usual or anything.
22:45:03 <\oren\> "The next station is." "Saint Patrick." "Saint Patrick Station."
22:46:02 <fizzie> I'm also annoyed by the redundancy inherent in their announcement they invariably do between Queenstown Road and Vauxhall, which goes: "This is a South West Trains service to London Waterloo, calling at Vauxhall and London Waterloo. *The next station is Vauxhall.*"
22:46:19 <fizzie> That last bit is so unnecessary.
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22:51:21 <FireFly> The Stockholm ones are pre-recorded cut-up parts (i.e. each station name is separate, each number 1-something is separate, various snippets in-between connecting it all into an utterance)
22:51:50 <FireFly> and the seams are pretty...obvious, leading to a pretty distinct/weird melody
22:57:18 <\oren\> "To ensure safety on track conditions ahead, this train will will operate slower than normal. We are sorry for the inconvenience."
22:57:33 <\oren\> This took months before it was fixed
22:58:04 <\oren\> and then it came back on a different part of the track
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23:04:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51944&oldid=51936 * Timtomtoaster * (+513)
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23:07:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51945&oldid=51944 * Timtomtoaster * (+135)
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23:18:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51946&oldid=51945 * Timtomtoaster * (-82)
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23:23:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51947&oldid=51946 * Timtomtoaster * (+0)
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00:13:27 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re lossy image encoding, you know what I'd like?
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01:41:29 <Zarutian> zzo38: for your ff tool collection: add shearing. (Shearing x-axis: |_| -> /_/ or \_\ )
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05:23:29 <oerjan> @tell FireFly <FireFly> I can't remember if all of ours do too, or only some.. I think all <-- i suspect _very_ few of your trains have announcements in English and Japanese hth
05:24:05 <HackEgo> 1/3:trantor//Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-r
05:24:40 <HackEgo> 2/3:un commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command. \ finity//Enjoy being locked in your matrix of finity. \ fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/
05:24:52 <HackEgo> 3/3:img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg \ bike//Bike is from Luxembourg.
05:27:24 <HackEgo> tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
05:27:36 <shachaf> oerjan: should i figure out what a lie group is twh
05:28:43 <oerjan> a lie group is just a group that's also a paracompact analytic manifold, what's the problem?
05:28:59 <shachaf> what's a paracompact analytics manifold twh
05:29:14 <oerjan> it's an analytic manifold that's paracompact hth
05:29:15 <shachaf> also do the group operators interact with the manifold structure
05:29:20 <shachaf> what's an analytics manifold twh
05:30:59 <shachaf> `learn tmp/ is a tertiary memory primitive
05:31:50 <oerjan> hm it's possible the paracompactness was part of being a manifold
05:32:08 <oerjan> but anyway, the maps between maps should be analytic functions.
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05:33:09 <shachaf> Anyway I like the proof in https://drossbucket.wordpress.com/2017/05/16/two-types-of-mathematician-yet-again/ that sqrt is irrational
05:33:16 <shachaf> Why don't people always give that version?
05:33:48 <oerjan> oh the second "maps" may be "charts" for less confusion.
05:36:37 <oerjan> shachaf: i guess most people aren't primed for it.
05:37:06 <shachaf> I mean, it relies of on the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, but I'm pretty sure saying "in lowest terms" relies on that too.
05:40:14 <oerjan> nah that just requires the euclidean algorithm
05:40:35 <shachaf> `learn jargon is just a really grandiose opaque gobbledygook
05:40:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'jargon': jargon is just a really grandiose opaque gobbledygook
05:40:52 <HackEgo> jargon//jargon is just a really grandiose opaque gobbledygook.
05:45:52 <HackEgo> 1/2:apt-get//apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. \ justice//Justice is just behavior or treatment. \ horn//Horn is the reduction system behind Prolog, and also the magical body part growing on the head of unicorns. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ myth//A myth is a
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05:49:46 <HackEgo> Justice is just behavior or treatment.
05:49:50 <shachaf> `le/rn justices//Justices are just members of the Supreme Court.
05:49:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'justices': Justices are just members of the Supreme Court.
05:50:21 <shachaf> i,i i wonder how many justices there are
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05:53:51 <HackEgo> Maybe a is Just a or Nothing
05:55:09 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe it would be better in SML or OCaml.
05:55:23 <shachaf> a option is some of a or none
05:57:19 <shachaf> α options is some of α or none
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06:06:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:`5//`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2. \ norway//Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. It's a warm, dry place, at least compared to
06:06:30 <HackEgo> 2/2:Québec. \ try//There is no try. \ goat//Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details. \ jonathan hoag//Hoag is an art critic.
06:07:15 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/`4: No such file or directory \ wisdom/`1 \ wisdom/`2 \ wisdom/`5
06:07:23 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/2: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access wisdom/5: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access wisdom/4: No such file or directory \ wisdom/1
06:07:52 <shachaf> Oh, it worked the first time.
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06:22:38 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
06:23:19 <oerjan> `` cat wisdom/\`2 >wisdom/\`4
06:23:48 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
06:24:47 <oerjan> `slwd `4//s,2,4,;2,1,5,g;s,sta.*ece,only repeats 4 times,;
06:24:47 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 11: unknown command: `,'
06:25:13 <oerjan> `slwd `4//s,2,4,;s,2,1,5,g;s,sta.*ece,only repeats 4 times,;
06:25:14 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 15: unknown option to `s'
06:25:29 <oerjan> `slwd `4//s,2,4,;s,1,5,g;s,sta.*ece,only repeats 4 times,;
06:25:31 <HackEgo> `4//`4 <cmd> is equivalent to `5 <cmd>, except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5.
06:25:33 <shachaf> You should add "Useful when you've already run a command once."
06:26:03 <shachaf> Maybe you should add to the description of `1 that it's not the obvious generalization of `4
06:26:31 <HackEgo> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
06:26:59 <oerjan> `slwd `5//s,1,& and `4,
06:27:01 <HackEgo> `5//`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1 and `4. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
06:28:52 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
06:29:29 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
06:29:32 <oerjan> `le/rn_append `1//Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `4.
06:29:34 <HackEgo> Learned '`1': `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `4.
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06:29:59 <shachaf> It's not very confusing that `4 isn't the obvious generalization of `4.
06:30:04 <shachaf> That generalization is p. useless.
06:30:15 <shachaf> In fact `` is the obvious generalization of `4
06:30:21 <oerjan> are you misreading again
06:30:22 <shachaf> Wait, `1 *is* the generalization of `4
06:31:06 <shachaf> `le/rn_append `1//Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
06:31:08 <HackEgo> Learned '`1': `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
06:32:41 <shachaf> But `2 is not the obvious generalization of `1 viewed the obvious generalization of `4.
06:32:54 <shachaf> Though it is the obvious generalization of `1. I guess it's not a transitive relation?
06:32:55 <oerjan> `slwd `spam//s!2!2, `4!
06:32:57 <HackEgo> `spam//`spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `4, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
06:33:12 <shachaf> Well, I guess `2 isn't really the obvious generalization of `1.
06:33:30 <shachaf> The point is, these shaventions are p. great.
06:33:53 <HackEgo> shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän shachäf shachäf
06:34:23 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf shachäf shachäf
06:34:26 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
06:34:41 <shachaf> `slwd shavention//s.1.1/4/5.
06:34:43 <HackEgo> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
06:35:05 <shachaf> Did I not shavent `2? I thought I did.
06:35:17 <HackEgo> 9754:2016-11-22 <oerjän> mkx bin/2//\\` "$@" |& sport \'\' 2
06:36:05 <HackEgo> sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
06:36:17 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
06:36:28 <HackEgo> spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
06:36:49 <shachaf> I guess it hasn't been updated to specify that it can also get a file name.
06:37:40 <oerjan> i'm not sure if that feature is used anywhere
06:37:55 <oerjan> it was probably _older_ than the line number
06:39:09 <shachaf> I think I probably added it for the initial spamplementation.
06:39:25 <oerjan> which means it's a bit deceptive, hm
06:39:29 <shachaf> Oh, no, `2 is definitely an oervention. I shouldn't have tried to take credit for it.
06:39:51 <shachaf> Back then I was thinking people would use spore/sport directly, I guess?
06:40:05 <oerjan> `` grep -r sport | bin
06:40:06 <shachaf> But `1 cat is probably what they do in practice.
06:40:37 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: bin: command not found
06:40:46 <HackEgo> Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/`^:[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport \ bin/2:\` "$@" |& sport '' 2 \ bin/1:\` "$@" |& sport \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/jq matches \ Binary file bin/units matches
06:41:27 <shachaf> grep -I skips binary files hth
06:41:30 <oerjan> sport must be some common string
06:41:36 <oerjan> `` grep -r -I sport bin
06:41:37 <HackEgo> bin/`^:[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport \ bin/2:\` "$@" |& sport '' 2 \ bin/1:\` "$@" |& sport
06:41:45 <oerjan> `1 grep -r -I sport bin
06:41:46 <HackEgo> 1/1:bin/`^:[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport \ bin/2:\` "$@" |& sport '' 2 \ bin/1:\` "$@" |& sport
06:42:40 <HackEgo> 1/1:bin/sport:distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
06:43:12 <HackEgo> cat "${1:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${2-1}"
06:44:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/spore//y,12,21,
06:44:04 <HackEgo> bin/spore//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${1-2}"
06:44:37 <oerjan> `sled bin/spore//s,-2,-1,
06:44:39 <HackEgo> bin/spore//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${1-1}"
06:45:01 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
06:45:19 <oerjan> `sled bin/sport//s,['],,g
06:45:21 <HackEgo> bin/sport//distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${2-1}"
06:45:31 <oerjan> `sled bin/sport//s, , ,
06:45:33 <HackEgo> bin/sport//distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${2-1}"
06:46:15 <HackEgo> 121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2112:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5894:5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
06:46:19 <oerjan> `sled bin/sport//s,2,1,;s,1,2,
06:46:21 <HackEgo> bin/sport//distort "${2:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${1-1}"
06:47:35 <oerjan> `sled bin/2//s,\'\' ,,
06:47:36 <HackEgo> bin/2//\` "$@" |& sport '' 2
06:49:11 <shachaf> imo 1 = 2 = \` "$@" |& sport "$0" hth
06:56:47 <HackEgo> 1/1:møøse//Møøse is Norwegian for moss. \ despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ bfjoust//bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. \ nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ quebec//Attache ta tuque with the spindle; there is around here fret!
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07:11:32 <\oren\> A writing system where the function from pronounciation to spelling is turing-complete
07:11:54 <\oren\> or the other way around.
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07:25:56 <HackEgo> 1/2:danish//In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons. \ ioccc//The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist. \ gazpacho//You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! \ ism//Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologi
07:26:09 <HackEgo> 2/2:es that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmanteaus on "schism". \ cipation//A cipation is an evil scheme that only works if no one is prepared for it.
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08:28:17 <HackEgo> 1/3:welcome.fr//Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.) \ welcome.nb//Hei og velkommen til det internasjonale knutepunkte
08:29:02 <HackEgo> 2/3:t for esoterisk programmeringsspråkdesign og -utrulling! For mer informasjon, se wikien vår: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For den andre typen esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.) \ promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is p. difficult. \ ub//ub is a san
08:29:10 <HackEgo> 3/3:er hub. \ ⊥//⊥ is a bottom tack, useful for annoying teachers.
08:29:23 <int-e> . o O ( shachaf is looping )
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08:30:10 <shachaf> int-e: please `learn a definition for BQP twh
08:32:37 <int-e> . o O ( Is that related to BBQ? )
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08:35:45 <int-e> it would be a portmanteau anyway, something like "class of quantum problems that can be solved in polynomial time over a barbecue"
08:38:53 <shachaf> Can you solve SSR puzzles efficiently in BBQP?
08:39:52 <int-e> ssr is like ussr but for everybody?
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08:40:02 <shachaf> oerjan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNqYLGwqxU hth
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08:40:15 <shachaf> int-e: You know what SSR is.
08:40:52 <shachaf> my pun is underappreciated
08:41:01 <int-e> I just realized that I do, actually, know that.
08:41:25 <int-e> But only after Google didn't turn up anything remotely meaningful.
08:42:10 <int-e> with 174 bbq'd sausages
08:46:28 <int-e> (15 levels after the "Dead End" one)
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09:00:45 <HackEgo> eval "$(shuf -n 1 <<'END' \ \` "$@" |& sport 3 \ cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 3 "$cmd" \ END \ )"
09:01:10 <shachaf> Maybe you were being sneaky on purpose and I spoiled it.
09:01:30 <oerjan> i just tested it first.
09:01:53 <HackEgo> 1/2:3/1:1/2:476) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 171) <elliott> quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror <elliott> typing is kind of difficult \ 91) <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob h
09:02:02 <shachaf> i have no idea what's going on here
09:02:37 <HackEgo> 1/3:cat introduction//cat introduction is the process of piping one or more extra `cat` commands into your pipeline; occasionally this is even actually useful. \ o//o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they
09:03:02 <HackEgo> 2/3: go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, essentially, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order, so they get their personal problems t
09:03:12 <HackEgo> 3/3:aken care of before the final battle. And it's a comedy.hice//Hice is the plural form of house.
09:03:22 <HackEgo> oerjän b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs oerjan_nop̈e oerjan_nop̈e
09:03:25 <HackEgo> o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world,
09:03:48 <shachaf> These super-long b_jonas wisdoms can be problematic.
09:06:41 <oerjan> well that's why `n takes a number hth
09:07:25 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: q: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: q: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: q: command not found \ 1/2:1/0:3/1:3/1:
09:07:38 <myname> how can they be problematic?
09:10:16 <oerjan> `learn `3 is the crazy sibling of `1, `2, `4 and `5.
09:10:18 <HackEgo> Learned '`3': `3 is the crazy sibling of `1, `2, `4 and `5.
09:10:52 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
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09:10:59 <HackEgo> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1 and `4. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
09:11:15 <shachaf> i,i `3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4.
09:12:15 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
09:13:06 <shachaf> `1 is the obvious generalization of `2, `3, `4, and `5.
09:13:16 <shachaf> But only some of them are confusing.
09:13:22 <oerjan> `learn `3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to please everyone.
09:13:24 <HackEgo> Relearned '`3': `3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to please everyone.
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09:25:14 <Vorpal> shachaf: we clearly need `n
09:28:10 <HackEgo> 1/1:1/1:false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \ controversy//Controversy is an alternate name for a game released in September of 2015. \ hambiguitous//We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
09:28:14 <shachaf> `n is taken and is not the obvious generalization of any of them.
09:28:15 <HackEgo> is taken and is not the obvious generalization of any of them./1:s taken and is not the obvious generalization of any of them.{p;q} \ /hackenv/bin/n: line 1: is taken and is not the obvious generalization of any of them.: syntax error: invalid arithmetic operator (error token is ".")
09:28:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^: not found
09:28:38 <HackEgo> Usage: /hackenv/bin/`^ n cmd
09:28:51 <oerjan> oh it's not useable that way
09:29:02 <Vorpal> So something is dying in my desktop. Strange hardware issues. First a disk was acting up. Now USB is acting weirdly
09:29:08 <Vorpal> I guess the mobo might be at fault
09:29:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 0: not found
09:29:54 <shachaf> You're thinking of `5, not `1
09:30:10 <oerjan> `mkx bin/0//sport 1 /dev/null
09:30:39 <shachaf> `n 0 doesn't make sense so it's tricky.
09:31:05 <oerjan> i thought it was consistent with everything like `1, but that was a misthought.
09:31:25 <HackEgo> 0/1:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 2: invalid usage of line address 0
09:31:49 <HackEgo> -1/1:/bin/sed: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: /bin/sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file
09:31:54 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
09:32:01 <HackEgo> q/1:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 2: extra characters after command
09:32:05 <HackEgo> q;/1:/hackenv/bin/n: line 1: q;: syntax error: invalid arithmetic operator (error token is ";")
09:32:19 <HackEgo> q;1/1:/hackenv/bin/n: line 1: q;1: syntax error: invalid arithmetic operator (error token is ";1")
09:32:58 <Vorpal> or the PSU maybe, if this is a power supply issue. I could try switching back to the old GPU and see if that changes anything
09:32:59 <shachaf> someone else figure out a clever sed injection trick twh
09:36:52 <oerjan> i think your problem in the last ones is that it's getting stopped before it gets to sed.
09:37:59 <oerjan> oh no, it's afterwards
09:40:43 <HackEgo> %/1:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `%' \ /hackenv/bin/n: line 1: %: syntax error: operand expected (error token is "%")
09:41:45 <HackEgo> 1/1:1/1:false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \ controversy//Controversy is an alternate name for a game released in September of 2015. \ hambiguitous//We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth.
09:41:59 <HackEgo> 1/1:olist//olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
09:42:08 <HackEgo> 1/1:something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom//It is now.
09:42:33 <HackEgo> 1/2:o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conqu
09:42:41 <HackEgo> 1,$/2:o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conqu \ /hack
09:43:11 <shachaf> `` echo $'blah 1\nblah 2\nblah 3' | spore
09:43:18 <HackEgo> p;1000/3:blah 1 \ blah 2 \ blah 3 \ /hackenv/bin/n: line 1: p;1000: syntax error: invalid arithmetic operator (error token is ";1000")
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11:14:08 <HackEgo> `ls`/3:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: ``' \ /hackenv/bin/n: line 1: `ls`: syntax error: operand expected (error token is "`ls`")
11:15:38 <HackEgo> spline/3:/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 11: unterminated `s' command
11:17:56 <HackEgo> s}line}/3:/hackenv/bin/n: line 1: s}line}: syntax error: invalid arithmetic operator (error token is "}line}")
11:19:19 <int-e> `` x='x'; echo $((x))
11:19:20 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: x: expression recursion level exceeded (error token is "x")
11:20:45 <int-e> `` x=1;y='x+x';z='y+y';echo $((z))
11:21:15 <int-e> `` x=1;y='x+x+x+x';z='y+y+y+y';a='z+z+z+z;b='a+a+a+a';echo $((b))
11:21:16 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
11:21:25 <int-e> `` x=1;y='x+x+x+x';z='y+y+y+y';a='z+z+z+z';b='a+a+a+a';echo $((b))
11:21:56 <int-e> `` x=1;y='x+x+x+x';z='y+y+y+y';a='z+z+z+z';b='a+a+a+a';c='b+b+b+b';d='c+c+c+c';echo $((d))
11:23:45 <int-e> `` x=1;y='x+x+x+x';z='y+y+y+y';a='z+z+z+z';b='a+a+a+a';c='b+b+b+b';d='c+c+c+c';e='d+d+d+d';f='e+e+e+e';g='f+f+f+f';h='g+g+g+g';i='h+h+h+h';time echo $((i))
11:23:49 <HackEgo> real: 0m2.594s, user: 0m2.650s, sys: 0m0.000s \ 4194304
11:28:08 <int-e> http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2017/05/15/0886-larisa-has-a-better-suggestion/ f. ... I was really hit by the punchline.
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11:41:50 <int-e> SSSS really ended the week on a light note, didn't it...
11:42:13 <int-e> `learn SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic.
11:42:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'sss': SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic.
11:42:36 <int-e> `` mv wisdom/sss{,s}
11:43:09 <int-e> `learn SSR is Steven's Sausage Roll.
11:43:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'ssr': SSR is Steven's Sausage Roll.
11:44:16 <shachaf> `learn QC is Quantum Computing.
11:44:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'qc': QC is Quantum Computing.
11:44:34 <int-e> . o O ( a wisdom of questionable content )
11:44:36 <shachaf> I went to a talk about quantum computing the other day.
11:44:41 <shachaf> At a quantum computing startup.
11:45:01 <int-e> So that's why you brought up BQP?
11:45:33 <int-e> Anyway, I'm not convinced that SSR solving would really benefit from quantum.
11:46:02 <int-e> I guess I won't teach hackego about *all* webcomics.
11:46:06 <shachaf> I doubt it would, but I was pretty happy to make some sort of pun with BBQP.
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11:46:33 <shachaf> The main reason to teach it about a comic is to document a list.
11:47:37 <int-e> you'd think the comics that do have regular updates are the more important ones :-P
11:48:10 <HackEgo> SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic.
11:48:13 <shachaf> Less reason to talk about them.
11:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6h 25m 12s ago: <FireFly> I can't remember if all of ours do too, or only some.. I think all <-- i suspect _very_ few of your trains have announcements in English and Japanese hth
11:49:41 <shachaf> FireFly was talking about TRAAAAAINS?
11:49:50 <FireFly> I have however taken the commuter train to city and been encountered with Swedish, English, Spanish and I want to say French announcements, however
11:50:00 <FireFly> but I think that was mostly the announcer being bored
11:50:19 <FireFly> (and that wasn't the pre-recorded piecewise one, of course)
11:51:38 <HackEgo> 1/2:latex//LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} \ conspirabiology//conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. \ thyme//Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. \ #esoteric-blah//#esoteric-blah blah bla
11:51:41 <HackEgo> 2/2:h. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! \ teh//"teh" is the neuter cognate of the common-gender "the".
11:52:02 <HackEgo> 9092:2016-09-26 <oerjän> learn #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
11:52:29 <shachaf> FireFly: Did you read _The 35th of May_?
11:52:47 <shachaf> _Der 35. Mai oder Konrad reitet in die Südsee_
11:53:22 <HackEgo> Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
11:53:22 <shachaf> It has a character named Parsley.
11:53:38 <shachaf> Well, at least her name was "Petrozilya" in the Hebrew translation.
11:54:12 <int-e> `quote scarborough
11:54:25 <shachaf> Yes, apparently Petersilie in German.
11:54:47 <FireFly> "Borrowing from Ancient Greek πετροσέλῑνον (petrosélīnon, “parsley”), from πέτρος (pétros, “rock, stone”) + σέλῑνον (sélīnon, “celery”)" ah
11:54:57 <FireFly> greek → latin → (all the other languages) basically
11:55:22 <int-e> Petersilie, Salbei, Rosmarin und Thymian
11:55:50 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, did you read that book?
11:56:04 <int-e> shachaf: a book? I only know a song.
11:56:18 <FireFly> Persilja, salvia, rosmarin, timjan
11:56:49 <int-e> no, havn't read that. it doesn't even ring a bell.
11:57:24 <shachaf> int-e: Adenian, Cytosian, Guanian un Thymian
11:58:34 <shachaf> silly peter / parsley eater
11:59:15 <int-e> . o O ( A dog is just a wet, loud, and more dependent cat. )
12:01:15 <shachaf> "dog" is an archaic word meaning pooch.
12:03:32 <int-e> . o O ( "archaic" is a pre-scowy work meaning pre-scowy. )
12:04:17 <HackEgo> alpha:Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral. \ comedogenic:comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic motion. \ dowg:A dowg is a wise dog. \ htdh:HtDH is a classic text on
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12:08:03 <HackEgo> 2/3:lassic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. \ pluto:Pluto is an ex-planet that moonlights as a dog in Disney cartoons. \ pointer:A pointer is a dog bred to follow instructions. \ quintopia:quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. He
12:08:09 <HackEgo> 3/3:is flooded by thundercats and thunderdogs. He is the temporal antipode of boily despite living on the same continent. \ squirrel:A squirrel is a small nut-harvesting unit frequently deployed all over the world. They are popular due to their usefulness in distracting dogs.
12:09:53 <HackEgo> 5699:2015-06-24 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/ / /g\' wisdom/{atrix,rtf,htdh} \ 2996:2013-05-30 <cpressëy> sed -i "s/errenc/erenc/" wisdom/htdh \ 2995:2013-05-30 <cpressëy> learn HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herrence Tao and Don Ho. \ 2988:2013-05
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12:13:19 <HackEgo> links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element.
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12:29:05 <boily> fungot: roll a d20.
12:29:05 <fungot> boily: regarding listing/ appending, you can easily write it... just wanted to check
12:31:04 <FireFly> it's tricky to roll a d20 in Befunge
12:31:04 <int-e> (can you tell it's cheating?)
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12:34:25 <boily> int-ello. lambdie cheats?
12:35:23 <int-e> boily: the @dice command does, when asked to cast many dice at once.
12:35:39 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
12:35:47 <lambdabot> @dice <expr>. Throw random dice. <expr> is of the form 3d6+2.
12:36:20 <int-e> boily: it cheats by sampling a normal distribution instead
12:38:39 <shachaf> Is there no good exact closed form?
12:39:31 <shachaf> Looks like there is something.
12:43:22 <int-e> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/dice-0.1/docs/src/Data-Random-Dice.html#roll
12:45:16 <shachaf> imo return $ do { x <- ls; return x }
12:46:20 <int-e> yes, that's a bit odd
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13:04:37 <lambdabot> unexpected 'd': expecting digit, operator or end of input
13:04:55 <lambdabot> unexpected 'd': expecting digit, operator or end of input
13:05:00 <lambdabot> unexpected "-": expecting number, "d" or "("
13:05:06 <lambdabot> unexpected "-": expecting number, "d" or "("
13:05:25 <boily> @dice 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999d6
13:05:26 <lambdabot> boily: 34999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999570997025821163...
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14:34:52 <Taneb> I tried to use Android's voice search thing to make a shopping list
14:35:02 <Taneb> Now I have to go to the co-op and buy Red and West Ham
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14:39:16 <boily> Tanelle. is Red and West Ham a real thing, or a misunderstanding of “get to Hexham”?
14:39:59 <Taneb> boily, "Bread" and "Sliced ham"
14:40:07 <Taneb> West Ham is a football team
14:40:22 <Taneb> And part of London, I think
14:41:00 <int-e> does the Red Queen rule over Redham?
14:44:46 <boily> red bread, rødgrød med fløde.
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14:45:32 <HackEgo> 221) <ais523> OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension \ 1206) <Taneb> Help I'm distracting myself from writing terrible Python by reading terrible PHP
14:46:18 <int-e> 221) is perfectly plausible to me.
14:46:53 <HackEgo> 174) <ais523> I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck <ais523> that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi \ 777) * oerjan makes a brainfuck derivative for quoting xkcds \ 950) <Phantom_Hoover> As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really.
14:47:34 <HackEgo> wc: quote: No such file or directory
14:48:02 <int-e> . o O ( Brilliant output. I didn't plan that. )
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14:54:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Programmer5000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51948 * Programmer5000 * (+236) Created page with "Hi, it's Programmer5000! I invented the language [[Meta Memes]] and do code golfing on [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/58826/programmer5000 Code Golf SE] My person..."
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15:55:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Programmer5000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51949 * Programmer5000 * (+108) Created page with "Hello! --~~~~"
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19:38:35 <int-e> some phrases stuck, apparently.
19:40:01 <int-e> not sure whether it should be -ое or -ый
19:40:14 <int-e> knowing my luck, probably the latter
19:46:50 <int-e> (indeed it is the latter)
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20:09:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51950&oldid=51914 * Programmer5000 * (+132)
20:10:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51951&oldid=51950 * Programmer5000 * (-132) Undo revision 51950 by [[Special:Contributions/Programmer5000|Programmer5000]] ([[User talk:Programmer5000|talk]])
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20:26:24 <\oren\> Today, I am attempting to finish my bdf2ttf.c
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21:44:55 <\oren\> ok, apparently a longstanding bug was caused by using write instead of fwrite
21:45:19 <\oren\> god knows why it didn't error out
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21:50:27 <\oren\> well anyway, the new version of my font is the first where the ttf did not need to be put through fontforge
21:50:45 <\oren\> 疫疲疾症痕痘痢痩痴瘍療癒癖皆盆監盤眠眺睡督瞬瞭瞳矯砕砲 were added
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22:04:26 <izabera> my mom cursed so much when i was little i thought my name was fuck
22:06:09 <HackEgo> bf:See: brainfuck \ brainf**k:There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck. \ brainfuck:brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array \ brick:Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. \
22:07:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mklang: not found
22:10:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51952&oldid=51947 * Timtomtoaster * (+85)
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22:15:43 <int-e> wait... has gzip <file> always preserved the time stamp of the file while compressing it (i.e., the resulting .gz file has the same timestamp as the original file had before)?
22:15:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51953&oldid=51952 * Timtomtoaster * (-22)
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22:28:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51954&oldid=51953 * Timtomtoaster * (-106)
22:31:19 <\oren\> I also added some emoji
22:31:56 <pikhq> int-e: Yes, though gzip doesn't always restore the time stamp.
22:32:12 <pikhq> int-e: A .gz file *may* also contain with in it the original file name.
22:32:29 <pikhq> As ISO-8859-1, per the spec, though in practice "whatever the local filesystem encoding was".
22:32:43 <pikhq> pikhq-gzip punts on these by saying "you don't really want that feature".
22:35:19 <\oren\> 😀 AAAAAAAA but they don't show up right in the terminal
22:37:15 <pikhq> Maybe I'll go to the effort of making pikhq-gzip "handle" compress files.
22:38:38 <pikhq> (the obvious solution to this, that I'd go with, is to just shell out to other programs. Because really, WTF)
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22:51:14 <\oren\> ooh, it works with rlogin
22:53:09 <\oren\> well, it sort of works with rlogin
22:53:45 <\oren\> the emoji show up but there are other graphical glitches now
22:57:00 <\oren\> ok yeah no, wtf is this
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23:00:56 <\oren\> it seems like rlogin is not interacting well with tmux
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23:16:19 <\oren\> 😀😁😂😃😄😅😆😇😈😉😊😋😌😍😎😏😐😑😒😓😔😕😖😗😘😙😚😛😜😝😞😟😠😡😢😣😤😥😦😧😨
23:16:52 <\oren\> yeah I don't know wtf is going wrong with tmux in rlogin
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23:17:30 <\oren\> maybe the width of some characters is not right?
23:20:14 <\oren\> other than that, rlogin is superior to mintty
23:21:28 <\oren\> anyway, do you like my emojis?
23:22:18 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/37VkSo.jpg
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23:55:25 <\oren\> I added basic emoji to my font: https://snag.gy/37VkSo.jpg do you like this?
23:57:12 * oerjan doesn't particularly care about either fonts or emoji
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00:01:22 <Zarutian> oerjan: you dont like that drink? emo-ji?
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00:05:15 <oerjan> because not caring is my default, i guess?
00:06:04 <\oren\> CNN is being imbecilic as usual
00:06:16 <\oren\> "Team Emoji (aka the Unicode Consortium) has approved some well-recieved updates to the visual lexicon we've all come to love. "
00:11:53 <\oren\> "One of the most recent updates included black hearts and a unicorn, and they also got rid of the gun emoji in favor of a much less threatening water gun version."
00:11:59 <\oren\> the unicode consortium actually disapproved of apple changing it to a wter gun
00:12:04 <\oren\> but CNN wouldn't know that since they're all idiots who buy overpriced pieces of shit from apple
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01:32:57 <HackEgo> 1/1:protocol//Protocol is not to be confused with protocoal. \ pastry//A pastry is a sugary confectionery that is customarily eaten after writing an essay. \ typoerjan//typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin.
01:33:36 <shachaf> How many twins does oerjan have?
01:34:30 <HackEgo> *:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twi
01:35:02 <HackEgo> 1/4:*:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren
01:35:09 <HackEgo> 2/4:'s evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. \ örjan:Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters. \ ørjan:Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers wi
01:35:16 <HackEgo> 3/4:thout noticing it. \ pico:pico is the useless twin of nano. \ sewerjan:sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin. \ twint-e:twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ typoerjan:typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin. \ אrjan:אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with
01:36:12 <shachaf> methinks pointing may not be enough to get your point across hth
01:36:13 <oerjan> so at least 5, but likely uncountably many.
01:36:26 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
01:37:17 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `4, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
01:38:27 <oerjan> `learn `help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom.
01:38:31 <HackEgo> Learned '`help': `help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom.
01:40:26 <HackEgo> Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help instead.
01:40:51 <oerjan> if you had left off the ` you would have got this, but the stripping only goes one level.
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01:42:04 <oerjan> this is not going to interact well with the `` / ```distinction.
01:43:04 <Zarutian> hmm.. I recall way back when that one could 'ride' an google spider (or crawler). How does one do that now days?
01:43:05 <oerjan> possibly it should only add the ` if there isn't one already.
01:43:50 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic
01:45:49 <oerjan> `mkx bin/help//\? "$(echo "$1" | sed 's/^[^`]/`&/')"
01:45:59 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
01:46:08 <HackEgo> ` is the prefix to greatness.
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01:46:21 <HackEgo> `help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom.
01:46:34 <HackEgo> `help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom.
01:47:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51955&oldid=50443 * BradleySadowsky * (+835) Updated commands table
01:47:46 <HackEgo> `run <command> is HackEgo's builtin for running a command with full shell syntax. These days most use the user-made `` or ``` shortcuts instead, although all of the three have subtle differences, with `run being the most plain option (also, unlike the rest it cannot be called from other commands.)
01:52:50 <oerjan> <int-e> `` mv wisdom/sss{,s} <-- * points to `whoops
01:53:25 <HackEgo> OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "«${NEW}» already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "«${OLD}» -> «${NEW}»"
01:54:00 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/{,\`}whoops
01:54:30 <HackEgo> `whoops//`whoops is a repluralizer.
01:56:38 * Zarutian found an equiv to what he was searching for.
01:56:48 <Zarutian> and I came across https://thefo.nz/
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02:01:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51956&oldid=51955 * BradleySadowsky * (+39) Fixed examples to work with DROL 2.0
02:01:31 <oerjan> ok now even b_jonas is on PPCG.
02:02:10 <oerjan> while here he's 21 days idle?
02:04:54 <oerjan> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/
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02:21:20 <oerjan> <shachaf> int-e: Adenian, Cytosian, Guanian un Thymian <-- in case it's not obvious, that's from DNA bases hth
02:22:35 <oerjan> from thymus, apparently
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02:27:36 <oerjan> shachaf: thymine is from thymus, the gland. which looks like it _might_ be cognate to thyme the plant, the words were also similar back in ancient greek.
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02:28:32 <oerjan> but wiktionary is missing an etnry for the latter.
02:33:54 <oerjan> cognate to dew and dust
02:41:22 <oerjan> <shachaf> bad luck <-- you could have used `n
02:41:45 <HackEgo> 1/1:winter//Winter is coming.
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03:01:54 <shachaf> oerjan: Maybe `n should saturate.
03:02:14 <shachaf> Or take the value mod n, rather, to fit the wrapping behavior.
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03:06:50 <oerjan> what does "saturate" mean?
03:06:55 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
03:07:46 <shachaf> I mean stop at the largest number available.
03:08:16 <oerjan> well the current behavior seems more useful.
03:10:17 <oerjan> the bugginess really only shows up with `3, which isn't intended to be sane.
03:14:50 <oerjan> in fact fixing it would sort of ruin `3.
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03:29:56 <zzo38> Hello now I am back again.
03:31:10 <HackEgo> zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:34:14 <zzo38> I have played a GURPS game again today. Domag is still injured but I have made up some spell and then if it is considered as suitable and if later my character is know such spell, may help a bit.
03:36:21 <\oren\> 😤 was the hardest emoji to draw
03:37:05 <zzo38> Which one is it? (It is not display on here)
03:39:27 <\oren\> the one "FACE WITH LOOK OF TRIUMPH" which is a face breathing out steam from its nostrils
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03:54:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack Up]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51957&oldid=47200 * Qwertyu63 * (+9)
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04:52:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51958&oldid=51391 * Qwertyu63 * (+1566)
04:57:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51959&oldid=51958 * Qwertyu63 * (+66)
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05:19:32 <zzo38> Do you like IMIDI and TVMIDI?
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05:26:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51960&oldid=51959 * Qwertyu63 * (+219)
05:28:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51961&oldid=51960 * Qwertyu63 * (+28)
05:29:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51962&oldid=51961 * Qwertyu63 * (+6)
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05:59:12 <zzo38> Although my shield got hit a few times in this GURPS game, it has not once gotten damaged (yet).
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06:41:02 <zzo38> Do you like the plan I made in GURPS game (and it worked)? I went to fly up on top of the mountain where the temple is embedded in, and there is a hole with smoke on top so we put tree branches to block the smoke. Now everyone in the temple had to escape, and then tell them why there is the smoke so they went up to remove them, but it takes them a day to get up and down by walking (by flying it takes only an hour), so I was able to get in without b
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07:55:11 <\oren\> Argh, I have to redraw like 30 characters because their CJKwidth changed
07:57:02 <zzo38> That is one of the problems with Unicode, so make it with non-Unicode maybe
07:58:31 <int-e> . o O ( somehow zzo38's solutions always seem worse than the problem they're trying to solve )
08:01:39 <zzo38> That is because you forgot how to Keep It Simple and Stupid.
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08:04:22 <shachaf> i,i Keep It Simple as a Service
08:13:21 <int-e> . o O ( Most ransomware is just Encryption as a Service, why are people so upset? (Not really my idea.) )
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12:41:32 <HackEgo> guarantee//HackEgo is guaranteed merchantable.
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15:57:34 <mroman> does anybody have someinsight into MSIL runtime stuff?
15:58:40 <mroman> there's no runtime int8
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16:56:32 <int-e> oh mroman... I think I've neglected the Burlesque shell.
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17:25:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Mascarpone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51963&oldid=37282 * Challenger5 * (+178)
17:25:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Mascarpone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51964&oldid=51963 * Challenger5 * (+131)
17:26:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mascarpone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51965&oldid=35009 * Challenger5 * (-12)
17:27:08 <Zarutian> arent we all super positive today, ya misarable frackers?
17:27:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mascarpone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51966&oldid=51965 * Challenger5 * (+0)
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17:57:15 <myname> the typescript of python?
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18:48:09 <wob_jonas> "<\oren\> well anyway, the new version of my font is the first where the ttf did not need to be put through fontforge" => nice, congrats!
18:49:32 <wob_jonas> you should probably ungreen some of the older changes though
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18:54:00 <wob_jonas> I don't understand. Why would you need `3 and similar commands? Just make `2 save the full output to the buffer so you can use `spam after it
18:54:06 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
18:54:15 <wob_jonas> that makes sense, you use it if you forgot to use `1
18:54:30 <wob_jonas> but if you use `2 , it could just save the rest of the text
18:54:39 <HackEgo> `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `4, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
18:57:30 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> ok now even b_jonas is on PPCG." => I rarely go there because it seems like the rules for how they accept input and output in golf problems is so vague you can never tell how to optimize golf
18:59:51 <wob_jonas> "<\oren\> Argh, I have to redraw like 30 characters because their CJKwidth changed" => which 30?
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19:16:06 <int-e> mroman: the VM I had it on is gone (I cancelled the contract) and somehow I haven't set it up anywhere else yet though I meant to
19:16:57 <int-e> I wish I'd document this stuff better.
19:18:31 <mroman> you could also run the IRC bot :D
19:24:05 <int-e> well, let's see if I can make it work again
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19:31:06 <\oren\> I just had the most horrifying realization
19:31:37 <\oren\> Himouto Umaru-chan is basically Garfield!
19:33:04 <int-e> so, same joke every day?
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19:41:06 <int-e> well at least I still have the authorized keys file and the cgi executable.
19:41:07 <zzo38> This book of art of computer program is also described "median algebra", so now I know how that is working, too.
19:41:53 <wob_jonas> fungot, what TV series do you watch?
19:41:53 <fungot> wob_jonas: boobies and a bra. but there is
19:49:26 <FireFly> I didn't know fungot was into that kind of series
19:49:26 <fungot> FireFly: while walking back i realized i can make an info manual with just `makeinfo scheme48.texi`, or `texi2dvi scheme48.texi`, &c. write is the dual of multiple parameters.
19:51:35 <\oren\> int-e: the main character is an orange, lazy creature that watched tv and eats junk food and is taken care of by a feckless dude
19:53:10 <wob_jonas> I'm still laughing on the bug where GNU has managed to mess up the rendering of their own fricking licenses to meaningless with their own texinfo software.
19:53:35 <wob_jonas> I hope they'll fix the bug though.
19:55:56 <\oren\> the ones I've widened or redrawn so far: ☔☕ ♈♉♊♋♌♍♎♏♐♑♒♓
19:56:14 <wob_jonas> \oren\: they don't have a public bug tracker, so http://dpaste.com/17TZ178
20:03:46 <int-e> mroman: okay, it should work again now
20:05:18 <int-e> setup is a bit different than before, and it's sharing lambdabot's host now, let's see how that works out.
20:06:18 <int-e> But heh, it's sandboxed and gets no network access.
20:07:20 <wob_jonas> int-e: is there an instance inside lambdabot?
20:08:12 <wob_jonas> like, an executable inside lambdabot that interprets whatever the name is of that language
20:08:14 <int-e> mroman: anyway, no I don't want to run another IRC bot.
20:08:23 <int-e> no, there is no such thing
20:08:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: burlesque: not found
20:08:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: blsq: not found
20:09:01 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/blsq: not found
20:09:05 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/burlesque: not found
20:09:09 <mroman> I don't think there's blsq installed
20:09:18 <int-e> `` find ibin -iname *squ*
20:09:21 <int-e> `` find ibin -iname *sq*
20:13:05 <int-e> should I add anything to this list, hmm: unshare(CLONE_NEWIPC | CLONE_NEWNET | CLONE_NEWNS)
20:18:55 <int-e> Well I'm still quite happy with that selection. (FS access is restricted in the old fashioned way, using a chroot jail.)
20:19:45 <wob_jonas> chroot is basically the old mechanism for back when they didn't have mount namespaces
20:19:56 <wob_jonas> funnily, there's also a mechanism between, pivotroot
20:20:57 <int-e> pivotroot is quite cute
20:21:22 <int-e> I gather it was invented for initrds.
20:21:45 <wob_jonas> yes, from before there were general mechanisms like fs namespaces and bind mounts and move mounts
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20:32:08 <zzo38> How much do you expect a "two-pass-deflate" algorithm working? I would expect that by itself it might not help as much, but I have not tried it and I do not know.
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20:35:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you want a practical advice, I hear 7z implements decent gzip/pkzip compression, you could try that if you have to use deflate
20:36:00 <zzo38> When making ZIP archives I do use 7z.
20:37:07 <zzo38> This two-pass-deflate can't make the compression worse than a single pass, because the alterations made are only those which do not result in taking more bits to encode data than the first pass.
20:37:10 <pikhq> Doesn't zopfli use a large number of passes?
20:37:35 <zzo38> I don't know how zopfli works
20:37:50 <pikhq> Fairly complicated stuff.
20:38:55 <zzo38> With PNG, there is also filter selection, and optionally lossy coding. So you can add into the third pass, which will do filter selection based on what gives best results based on whether or not it would improve the results of the first approximation.
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20:41:46 <wob_jonas> zzo38: how about when making gz archives?
20:42:37 <zzo38> I did look at the codes for LodePNG, and by experiment have found that different settings work better for different pictures.
20:43:01 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I generally am just using gzip then, which supports acting as a filter.
20:43:55 <wob_jonas> I tried to install a 7z executable to HackEgo once, mostly for extracting `fetched archives, but failed for some reason.
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21:04:55 <zzo38> I look at "encodeLZ77" implementation in LodePNG, and look like some settings (maxchainlength, maxlazymatch) you cannot alter them directly.
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21:12:22 <zzo38> What might improve the PNG compression I think is for the filter selection and LZ77 and Huffman to be all done together rather than being separate subroutines.
21:13:00 <zzo38> Optional lossy compression can then be added to this set of stuff too.
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21:16:47 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+3
21:18:04 <shachaf> Do you like this sentence?
21:19:40 <zzo38> Now you can make the complaint and question and so on of the writing of this story too.
21:22:34 <shachaf> I haven't read the writing of the story.
21:23:14 <zzo38> (Ziveruskex does not like to use magic/psychic healing potions/spells (on himself) (if it is healing hit points and fatigue points), but using with someone else, or using nonmagical methods, or using magic healing that heals only disease and not injury, and so on, is OK)
21:24:19 <wob_jonas> I'm satisfied with ImageMagick's png encoder. It's tunable with multiple parameters, so I have a choice between slow compression and slower compression with smaller output. (It can also do uncompressed.) The color depth is also a tunable.
21:24:56 <int-e> is there any point in trying lossy png compression?
21:25:16 <int-e> (I suspect not, but I wonder whether it has been tried)
21:25:50 <wob_jonas> int-e: sure. like I said multiple times, converting a true color image to paletted and then making paletted png is already a form of lossy png compression.
21:25:59 <int-e> first hit https://pngquant.org/
21:26:08 <wob_jonas> paletted png works really well for me, for some images.
21:26:34 <zzo38> OK. LodePNG also has some options and I have added all of those options into ffpng. Some settings work better than others for some pictures, although as I have said there are some ideas I had that it just doesn't do.
21:27:44 <zzo38> My idea includes multiple passes as well as combining all of the stuff together; the API is too coarse to do this through the API.
21:28:50 <wob_jonas> int-e: that looks interesting, because it has its own palette finder
21:28:54 <int-e> wob_jonas: though that really seems about picking a color palette... what I had in mind was rounding colors without using a palette.
21:29:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, but picking a good palette is a hard problem that I'd like to have software for
21:29:40 <zzo38> (With default settings, LodePNG will automatically determine whether or not to use a palette and whether or not to use alpha and whether or not to use 16-bits-per-channel and so on.)
21:30:07 <zzo38> wob_jonas: You are correct, and I started such a program but it currently is not very good and anyone who can improve to please to do so.
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21:51:53 <zzo38> LodePNG also does not allow to set window sizes that are half way between two consecutive powers of two.
21:54:55 <wob_jonas> um, window sizes for what? the deflate backreferences?
21:58:24 <zzo38> Yes, I do mean for the backreferences. The encoder can easily use any window size up to 32768 in order to figure out the backreferences, although LodePNG only allows powers of two. Window sizes that are half way between two consecutive powers of two might be useful settings too though
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22:42:04 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to remember that there's some sort of continuationy function that corresponds to the Law of Excluded Middle under Curry-Howard
22:42:37 <zzo38> Yes, there is, as I have figured out too
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22:44:34 <zzo38> lemCC :: ContT r m (Either a (a -> ContT r m b)); lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)); callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x;
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23:14:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51967&oldid=51066 * Ganondork * (-2) changed "the world famouse (sic) webcomic" to 'Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff"
23:18:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Solbofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51968&oldid=51067 * Ganondork * (+108) Improved writing consistency.
23:19:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SolboScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51969&oldid=51967 * Ganondork * (-26) Improved writing consistency.
23:27:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Meta Memes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51970 * Ganondork * (+140) Created the page for
23:29:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ganondork]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51971&oldid=51056 * Ganondork * (+37) /* Other Contributions */
23:29:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ganondork]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51972&oldid=51971 * Ganondork * (+28)
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23:37:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Programmer5000]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51973&oldid=51949 * Ganondork * (+259)
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00:29:24 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=PNG+compression
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01:34:23 <zzo38> Why don't you like this? If there is mistake, please to fix it.
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01:47:43 <HackEgo> footnote 8//Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes⁺?
01:47:58 <boily> `` ls wisdom/foot*
01:47:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/football \ wisdom/footnote 1 \ wisdom/footnote 8
01:56:00 <zzo38> Did you read all of the foot notes of level20.tex yet?
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02:02:49 <boily> it's on the list of things I should have had will be done since long ago.
02:04:23 <zzo38> Then maybe you should do some of the such things that have not yet been done.
02:06:58 <zzo38> There is even the Article in All The Tropes wiki about Footnote Fever.
02:07:10 <zzo38> And I also have put it into my user page too.
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02:14:04 <boily> random question: do the letters zzo and the number 38 mean anything in particular?
02:15:12 <zzo38> I don't quite remember, but as far as I know it does not.
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02:22:50 <zzo38> Even though sometimes the name of my GURPS character "Ziveruskex" is abbreviation as "Ziv" but it is no relation to Lempel-Ziv, even though it is almost the same name; the name was made up at random and I was not thinking of any other name like "Ziv" when I had done so. I did not even make up the abbreviation myself, GM did so.
02:24:51 <zzo38> The way to enter the temple without being stopped by the priests, can be by covering the hole with the smoke by tree branches, so that they will have to get out and to remove the trees.
02:26:12 <zzo38> Do you ever play Dungeons&Dragons game and GURPS game?
02:27:58 <boily> I haven't dnded in a long time! But some coworkers and I are planning a 3.5e campaign.
02:28:09 <zzo38> What campaign is that?
02:28:28 <boily> no idea, the DM is currently fleshing it out.
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02:30:22 <HackEgo> Esoman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:31:05 <boily> I think I'm human, at least last time I checked.
02:31:56 <Esoman> Is there a list of ideas for programming languages?
02:32:10 <zzo38> Yes, I also human but I play monster character on D&D and GURPS game.
02:32:18 <zzo38> And yes there is a list of ideas, see on esolang wiki!
02:32:37 <zzo38> (You can even add your own if you have some too)
02:34:03 <oerjan> @tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> I don't understand. Why would you need `3 and similar commands? <-- `3 is a joke command i made because `2 and `4 do entirely different things. `2 already behaves as you suggest.
02:36:24 <boily> hellørjan. bonnerjanne nuit!
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02:53:42 <zzo38> Is SQLite compatible with MMIX?
02:54:24 <shachaf> Why would it be incompatible?
02:55:42 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
02:56:02 <HackEgo> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
02:56:11 <HackEgo> `3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to please everyone.
02:56:19 <HackEgo> `4 <cmd> is equivalent to `5 <cmd>, except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5.
02:56:32 <HackEgo> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1 and `4. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
02:57:39 <zzo38> shachaf: I wouldn't know why. I have not tried.
02:58:23 <shachaf> `slwd `3//s[please[confuse[
02:58:26 <HackEgo> `3//`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone.
03:01:10 <HackEgo> 1/3:prooftechnique//prooftechnique né NihilistDandy: He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) He is inevitably on a mathematical descent. \ ^//^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and
03:01:21 <HackEgo> 2/3: (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator. \ webcarting//webcarting is not dissimilar to Mario Kart, but uses real, remote-controlled go-karts. Participants describe it as "the outlandish spectacle of real go-karting combined with the thrill and immersion of Mario Kart". \ macedonia//Macedonia
03:01:24 <HackEgo> 3/3: is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Taiwan is.
03:02:10 <HackEgo> unicide//Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font.
03:03:18 <oerjan> <zzo38> This book of art of computer program is also described "median algebra", so now I know how that is working, too. <-- median algebras are cool. i cowrote a paper involving them once, but it was rejected.
03:03:42 <shachaf> I bet Ørjan's never had a paper rejected.
03:03:56 <oerjan> figures, that sneaky bastard
03:04:56 <shachaf> i,i http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0287.html
03:04:57 <Esoman> I'm trying to create the ultimate programming language. Any protips?
03:05:25 <shachaf> Esoman: If there are any people who are pros in creating the ultimate programming language, your efforts are already doomed. Hope that helps.
03:06:47 <oerjan> `slwd `5//s: and `4:, `4 and `spam:
03:06:49 <HackEgo> `5//`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1, `4 and `spam. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
03:06:56 <zzo38> I think is not possible making ultimate programming language.
03:07:39 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
03:07:51 <zzo38> oerjan: Did you still make it available even though it is rejected?
03:07:51 <shachaf> is oerjan going to fix the inconsistency or just let it sit there and rot
03:12:51 <oerjan> zzo38: i don't think so.
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03:13:34 <HackEgo> 1/3:unréliable//unréliable is French for «peu fiable». \ broily//broily is like boily, but more broiling. \ post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze//Post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze is the genre of the Autobahn album "Nagelbett" according to http://thedai
03:13:37 <HackEgo> 2/3:lywtf.com/articles/Yo-Ho%2c-Yo-Ho%2c-A-Pirates-Life-for-Lee . \ ocean//The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what
03:13:57 <shachaf> `cwlprits post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze
03:14:07 <HackEgo> 3/3: you were looking for. Try again.
03:14:21 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
03:15:01 <shachaf> `1 specifies that the next pieces can be viewed with `spam, but `5 only puts it in a see also.
03:15:27 <shachaf> I guess it's not a see also because there's no also.
03:16:16 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 289:2012-04-22 <oerjän> run echo "No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \\ arising from a use of \`wisdom' \\ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \\ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)" > wisdom/haskell \ 290:2012-04-22 <ellioẗt> run echo "Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \\
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03:17:29 <oerjan> just be happy the `? subgraph is strongly connected hth
03:18:18 <oerjan> `learn `n is an abbreviation for `spam.
03:18:20 <HackEgo> Learned '`n': `n is an abbreviation for `spam.
03:20:11 <shachaf> please write a program to generate the graph twh
03:21:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51974&oldid=51912 * Zzo38 * (+275) MMIX
03:26:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51975&oldid=51974 * Zzo38 * (+72)
03:30:23 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like MMIX's MOR instruction?
03:32:47 <zzo38> Yes that is good. There is some stuff to make with that too.
03:33:08 <zzo38> (I happen to like the Muxcomp operation though (which MMIX doesn't have), which I think the computer ought to have.)
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03:39:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51976&oldid=51975 * Zzo38 * (+368)
03:43:34 <zzo38> What is what, do you mean Muxcomp? It is described in esolang wiki.
03:58:23 <zzo38> I wish that this wish will be only half granted.
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04:57:04 <zzo38> I added a program "ff-maxrgb" which can be use to keep only the highest or lowest value of channel of each pixel.
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06:45:14 <oerjan> girl genius seems to be in poster mode again (except it's not a poster)
06:50:11 * oerjan suspected they'd lost the password or something.
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07:41:13 <zzo38> How many screen shot programs are there now for X window?
07:45:03 <zzo38> There is xwd, and ImageMagick also does (although it does not work so well), and a few others.
08:13:46 <izabera> "look ma, i learned to use git"
08:13:48 <izabera> https://github.com/ThomasDickey/original-mawk
08:13:52 <izabera> https://github.com/ThomasDickey/mawk-20101210b
08:13:57 <izabera> https://github.com/ThomasDickey/mawk-20120627
08:14:05 <izabera> https://github.com/ThomasDickey/mawk-20121129
08:14:09 <izabera> https://github.com/ThomasDickey/mawk-20140914
08:15:40 <shachaf> Looks like it's related to the Google Code exporter somehow?
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08:45:04 * int-e wonders what zzo38's (although it does not work so well) comment was about
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08:46:38 <int-e> ("import" is my main screen shot program and I can't really complain. http://sprunge.us/TFGD (fvwm2 config snippet))
08:54:30 <zzo38> If you use "import" it works, although if using "convert" it doesn't work as well.
08:54:57 <zzo38> I used xwd before, but now instead use my own program.
08:58:00 <zzo38> (If there is a bug in "convert" when trying to screenshot (rather than using "import"), it probably ought to be fix, although I am not too concerned now as I am not using it.)
09:00:43 <zzo38> Of xwd, ImageMagick, and my own program, xwd is fastest and ImageMagick is slowest, it looks like.
09:02:52 <zzo38> So, I think ImageMagick may be too slow for some uses.
09:04:50 <zzo38> Are they faster on your computer?
09:04:57 <zzo38> At least on my computer it is slow.
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14:19:52 <HackEgo> ops///msg ChanServ access list #esoteric
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14:32:11 <int-e> TIL that opaque terms are meaningless
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14:40:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LINR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51977&oldid=51634 * Slord * (+35) Fixed reference to final line being out of date
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14:50:45 <boily> int-ello. the less meaning they have, the better they are.
14:54:30 <int-e> the funny thing is that those are technical terms, cf. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.33.3382
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16:39:20 <HackEgo> tmyk//tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets.
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17:03:08 <HackEgo> m–rdalsjökull//M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base.
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17:35:23 <lambdabot> LOWI 221620Z 06011KT 010V090 9999 FEW075CB SCT080 SCT100 20/12 Q1016 NOSIG
17:44:36 <lambdabot> CYUL 221622Z 14011KT 5SM -RA BR BKN006 OVC025 11/10 A2996 RMK SF5SC3 SLP147
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19:12:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51978&oldid=51074 * Elronnd * (+6) bit->digit
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19:15:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Elronnd/Fell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51979&oldid=51978 * Elronnd * (-29) misc fix
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19:44:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Programmer5000]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51980&oldid=51973 * Programmer5000 * (+162)
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20:40:24 <lambdabot> ESSB 221920Z 26009KT CAVOK 15/03 Q1012
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21:14:52 <HackEgo> 1/2:caine//Caine is a target administered to the drug to reverse the effects of other drugs. \ pronounceable c//int main open paren close paren open curly printeff open paren double quote pronounceable capital c is the most verbose esoteric language ever comma god help you if you try to code with it comma especially without newlines perio
21:15:21 <HackEgo> 2/2:d double quote close paren semicolon close curly \ applicative functor//Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. \ try//There is no try. \ the neverending work//The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
21:18:14 <zzo38> Can you tell me if you think the numbers for some of the new GURPS spells I made up you think are any good: Seek Air [I 3 C3s L S] Vampire Transfer [Reg 2/1 C2s Nr 1m] Mirror Link [Reg 4/2 C10s 1h] Do you know any GURPS game playing?
21:19:18 <shachaf> I don't know any GURPS game playing, and I'm not sure anyone else here does either.
21:19:32 <shachaf> But if you say some Magic: The Gathering game playing, I might be able to comment on it.
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21:51:38 <zzo38> Did you make up a new Magic: the Gathering card now?
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21:58:43 <HackEgo> Sylvan Might \ 1G \ Instant \ Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn. \ Flashback {2}{G}{G} (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.) \ OD-U, EMA-C
21:59:05 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like Bearer of the Heavens?
21:59:08 <HackEgo> bin/card-by-name \ bin/random-card
21:59:14 <shachaf> `card-by-name Bearer of the Heavens
21:59:15 <HackEgo> Bearer of the Heavens \ 7R \ Creature -- Giant \ 10/10 \ When Bearer of the Heavens dies, destroy all permanents at the beginning of the next end step. \ JOU-R
22:01:11 <zzo38> Maybe is somewhat too much powerful but I like those kind of idea too
22:01:40 <shachaf> You think it's too powerful? Why?
22:02:55 <zzo38> It is 10/10 for 8 mana that can destroy all permanents. The cost seem just a little bit low for that.
22:05:33 <zzo38> Still, 10 toughness does make it less likely to due (unless you use Reprisal or something like that!)
22:06:30 <shachaf> I had a deck based on that card.
22:06:52 <int-e> (if the heavens come down crashing, nothing will be left standing)
22:07:00 <shachaf> It had all sorts of cards that would put cards into the graveyard and cards that would put creatures from the graveyard onto the battlefield.
22:07:12 <shachaf> And cards that made all your permanents indestructible.
22:08:10 <zzo38> Of course it can also trigger the death triggers of all other permanents too.
22:09:35 <shachaf> Do you like Celestial Prism?
22:09:40 <shachaf> `card-by-name celestial prism
22:09:41 <HackEgo> Celestial Prism \ 3 \ Artifact \ {2}, {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. \ A-U, B-U, U-U, RV-U, 4E-U
22:10:08 <zzo38> That is good. I like that one
22:11:05 <HackEgo> Pack Rat \ 1B \ Creature -- Rat \ */* \ Pack Rat's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Rats you control. \ {2}{B}, Discard a card: Create a token that's a copy of Pack Rat. \ RTR-R
22:11:20 <int-e> celestial prism seems expensive
22:11:28 <shachaf> `card-by-name relentless rats
22:11:29 <HackEgo> Relentless Rats \ 1BB \ Creature -- Rat \ 2/2 \ Relentless Rats gets +1/+1 for each other creature on the battlefield named Relentless Rats. \ A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats. \ 5DN-U, 10E-U, M10-U, M11-U
22:13:02 <zzo38> Yes Pack Rat is too good I think.
22:13:56 <shachaf> What other card is too good?
22:15:45 <zzo38> Moxen, I think. (If they are restricted (possibly even like Canadian Highlander does) and proxies are permitted, then they could work though)
22:15:53 <int-e> shachaf: the activated ability destroys one mana and can only be used once per turn (without additional work) and by the time you have 3 mana you are probably also capable of getting the colored mana you need for most decks... I can't see that card carry its weight.
22:16:21 <shachaf> int-e: You're right, it's a terrible card.
22:16:27 <shachaf> I wonder why zzo38 likes it.
22:17:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you permit proxen in your games?
22:18:14 <int-e> (1.8g per card... hmm sounds plausible)
22:19:26 <int-e> http://www.quietspeculation.com/2010/09/dream-cache-magic-card-measurements/ <-- answering a question I should never have asked :)
22:19:39 <zzo38> Yes, I do to permit proxies, outside of official tournments (where proxies must be issued only for replacements of cards that got damaged during the tournament)
22:20:15 <zzo38> However the proxy card needs to have the proper Oracle text (possibly omitting reminder text) and enough other similar physical properties, so as to not constitute "marked cards" or biased shuffling.
22:20:16 <int-e> . o O ( proxied blacker lotus )
22:20:57 <zzo38> The card still as to be legal though, so you can't use a proxy of Blacker Lotus unless Blacker Lotus is already legal (which it isn't).
22:21:30 <Zarutian> zzo38: so if someone uses a proxy card that is basically piece of paper inside of a card protection sleeve of the same make as the rest of the cards are in you permit it?
22:21:35 <int-e> but it would stretch the meaning of getting damaged during the tournament in a cute way
22:22:04 <zzo38> Yes, as long as all of the cards in the deck use sleeves (including authentic cards), and it is clear what the card is, then yes.
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22:24:22 <Zarutian> one thing I do not know of MTG are there cards of similiar power with same name but somewhat different stats?
22:24:48 <int-e> `card-by-name tragic slip
22:24:48 <HackEgo> Tragic Slip \ B \ Instant \ Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. \ Morbid -- That creature gets -13/-13 until end of turn instead if a creature died this turn. \ DKA-C, CNS-C, C14-C, EMA-C, DDM-C
22:24:56 <zzo38> Cards with the same name are going to be the same thing.
22:26:09 <zzo38> Pokemon card doesn't do that, but if you play the old-style then each (name,level) pair uniquely identifies a card.
22:26:09 <Zarutian> I see, so the same techniques can be used for implementing MTG online as there is for 'cryptographers poker'.
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23:01:13 <zzo38> Do you know how I can make screen shot program I wrote to be faster? Currently it is slower than xwd (but much faster than ImageMagick).
23:01:53 <zzo38> This is that program: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/raw/ff-xcapture.c?name=2e66c045d39fb98c1a360cb01e9f7ca0071f65c8
23:02:25 <shachaf> Why do you care how fast a screen shot program is?
23:02:45 <shachaf> Have you considered rewriting this program in CWEB?
23:03:20 <zzo38> That would not change the speed that the program runs at.
23:03:46 <zzo38> It would help to publish the program into a book, but that is not the intention at this time.
23:04:43 <zzo38> (Mostly I just want to know why it is slow and how such thing would be made to be faster.)
23:05:33 <HackEgo> 1/2:Aggressive Urge \ 1G \ Instant \ Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn. \ Draw a card. \ IN-C, 10E-C \ \ Ghostly Changeling \ 2B \ Creature -- Shapeshifter \ 2/2 \ Changeling (This card is every creature type.) \ {1}{B}: Ghostly Changeling gets +1/+1 until end of turn. \ LRW-U, MM2-C \ \ Urza's Mine \ Land -- Urza's Mine \ {T
23:05:38 <HackEgo> 2/2:}: Add {C} to your mana pool. If you control an Urza's Power-Plant and an Urza's Tower, add {C}{C} to your mana pool instead. \ AQ-C, AQ-U, CH-U, 5E-C, 8ED-U, 9ED-U, ME4-L \
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23:06:17 <shachaf> Is {C} the new colourless symbol?
23:06:27 <zzo38> Yes, that is what it means
23:06:28 <Zarutian> zzo38: you are requesting the screen pixmap how? One pixel or small rect a time or all at once?
23:06:45 <zzo38> Zarutian: You can see the program. It uses a single XGetImage call.
23:06:52 <shachaf> Legendary Enchantment Creature -- God
23:07:03 <shachaf> `card-by-nae bogbrew witch
23:07:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: card-by-nae: not found
23:07:13 <shachaf> `card-by-name bogbrew witch
23:07:14 <HackEgo> Bogbrew Witch \ 3B \ Creature -- Human Wizard \ 1/3 \ {2}, {T}: Search your library for a card named Festering Newt or Bubbling Cauldron, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library. \ M14-R
23:07:26 <shachaf> Do you like Bogbrew Witch?
23:07:59 <Zarutian> zzo38: you tested with x window servers that have diffrent sized viewports? if you have have you noticed any timing variance?
23:08:35 <zzo38> (Adding generic mana into your mana pool still adds colorless mana, although to pay for {C} you need colorless mana specifically, while generic mana symbol can be paid with any mana.)
23:08:43 <zzo38> Zarutian: I have not, but I can try that now.
23:09:06 <shachaf> What's the best color in Magic: The Gathering?
23:10:06 <zzo38> I think probably none of them are best because it can depend what thing you want to make.
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23:11:34 <Zarutian> zzo38: I havent read much about the X windows api but does XGetImage return a handle or the pixmap data? because if former then you are basically doing round-trip to the X window server for each pixel.
23:12:19 <zzo38> Zarutian: It returns the data.
23:12:50 <zzo38> The XImage structure contains a pointer to the data in client memory.
23:14:23 <Zarutian> zzo38: you are using shared memory between the client and server I take it? (that is when both are on the same machine)
23:14:26 <zzo38> It is faster for smaller windows.
23:15:04 <zzo38> Zarutian: As far as I know it does not work that way; it makes a copy.
23:17:12 <Zarutian> zzo38: write a program that basically omits writing out the image and see if that is faster for smaller windows or not
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23:18:31 <Zarutian> iterating pixel by pixel, scanline by scanline takes a while. Then there is the possibility of buffering or flow control to stdout too.
23:18:40 <zzo38> O, OK I suppose that is the idea to try.
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00:18:30 <izabera> did you know that the risk of developing cancer during your lifetime is ~40% ?
00:20:33 <zzo38> Now I made up a computer program to draw a picture of a fern.
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00:28:52 <HackEgo> 1086) <zzo38> Do you like this kind of melody? l8 e4gc'fac'g ^bd'fgfed e4gc'fac'g ^1
00:30:19 <shachaf> zzo38: I don't understand that notation.
00:30:30 <shachaf> Can you provide a music file please?
00:36:07 <int-e> . o O ( it'll probably end up being xm, mod, s3m or it... I'd include sid but it's the wrong platform, I think. )
00:37:21 <Phantom_Hoover> <izabera> did you know that the risk of developing cancer during your lifetime is ~40% ?
00:37:43 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean that's like how the rate of prostate cancer is quite high but the rate of clinical prostate cancer is significantly lower
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00:52:49 <zzo38> Use AmigaMML to make the MOD or XM file
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01:22:07 <fungot> boily: are you implying?) doesnt work for this one. native speakers. the 4-5 speakers with most votes would just get on and learn stuff, you would
01:22:19 <boily> fungot: yes, I'm assuming you have nostrils.
01:22:20 <fungot> boily: textgen seems to work nicely. sorta played a bit differently because rather than shapes in space you're concerned with the mixing of smell carriers in the air. it's useful for coordinating planned events. it was interesting
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03:03:29 <zzo38> The same program I made to draw a fern can also draw other stuff such as a Sierpinski triangle, if you specify different parameters.
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03:46:44 <shachaf> What are some good uses of string diagrams?
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05:26:09 <zzo38> "Art should show the death smith. It is like the blacksmith but it is smith with death." How is a smith with death?
05:28:41 <oerjan> maybe it's a pun on smitten
05:29:57 <oerjan> oh wait, smitten _is_ the participle of that verb
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05:40:08 <zzo38> Is that how it is working? I think that isn't helping much?
05:51:52 <zzo38> My brother once invented game "double-loaded dice chess". The board setup is same as normal chess. On your turn, roll 2d6. If you get doubles, then nothing happens. If you do not get doubles, then still nothing happens. But you still have to roll the dice on your turn.
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06:23:12 <zzo38> My best score for Lunar Limit is now 3030 points.
06:27:42 <shachaf> That game is pretty unrealistic.
06:35:04 <zzo38> I suppose maybe that is why.
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09:45:55 <int-e> wow the chinese counting procedure (in weiqi aka baduk aka go) is really disconcerting
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10:07:11 <int-e> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-HL5nppBnM#t=9190 <-- I was watching this, another defeat of mankind ;)
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10:45:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OOLANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51981&oldid=50509 * Slnetaiga * (-36) Change links to work links
10:47:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiLambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51982&oldid=50003 * Slnetaiga * (-18) Works links
10:49:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OneFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51983&oldid=50475 * Slnetaiga * (-11) Works links
10:50:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[STOD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51984&oldid=50407 * Slnetaiga * (-18) Works links
10:51:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Calculator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51985&oldid=50414 * Slnetaiga * (-18) Works links
10:51:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Voclex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51986&oldid=50483 * Slnetaiga * (-18) Works links
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12:20:38 <HackEgo> acab//ACAB is short for "all codecs are broken".
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15:36:34 <\oren\> oh: 007主演 ロジャー・ムーアさん死去
15:57:18 <Melvar> Hey guys, can Haskell have type-level lambdas yet?
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17:00:17 <\oren\> Manchester suicide bomber is named as 'British Libyan' jihadist Salman Abedi
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17:15:39 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], if you put any stock in anything ISIS say you are, to be blunt, making a fool of yourself
17:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: When did I put stock in it? I just reported
17:16:04 <Phantom_Hoover> and feeding into the media circus which gives attacks like this almost all of their effect
17:16:41 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: I know that it has not been verified at all yet. I'm just stating that they're taking responsibility, whether or not they're telling the truth.
17:17:07 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, a lot of terrorist groups run on just being the first to yell "IT WAS ME! I DID IT! MEEEEEE!" whenever something like this happens.
17:18:00 <Phantom_Hoover> my favourite one was— there was this utterly, comedically shit terrorist 'group' called the scottish national liberation army composed of like two guys
17:18:30 <Phantom_Hoover> one of their antics was to claim responsibility for a train crash which was later found to be entirely the fault of bad maintenance work
17:20:34 <Phantom_Hoover> even better was to send a bottle of acid to the prime minister's wife with the word 'perfume' crudely written on it
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17:59:20 <mroman> so... I'm writing a successor to Burlesque in Go.
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18:07:17 <LKoen> french can can dancers playing a sexy game of go?
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18:51:45 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/uKYyGT8wmcA?t=55s
18:52:13 <\oren\> on the right you can see an israeli diplomat facepalm when trump says he "just got back from the middle east". Apparently Israel isn't in the middle east as turmp imagines it
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23:47:33 <HackEgo> 1/2:languabe//Languabes are edible and fun. They provide a quick implementation energy boost! \ recursion//You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW \ `sled//`sled <filename>//<sed script> \ silent//Silent initial consonants in English are: wr{ite,ong,ist,ap,eck,est,estle,iggle
23:49:11 <HackEgo> 2/2:,inkle,ath,aith,eath,angle,en,ight,ought,ing,it,ithe,y}; kn{ow,ife,ock,ee,ight,ob,ot,it,ack,out,uckle}; ps{ychology,alm,eudo,ychic,ionics}; gn{aw,ash,ome,u,at}; pneumatic; mnemonic; chthonic; phthisis; bdellium. \ muphrys law//Mumphrie's Law says things will be misspelled at the worst possible moment.
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00:09:11 <lambdabot> ENVA 232250Z 12005KT CAVOK 07/05 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 17004KT
00:09:15 <lambdabot> CYUL 232300Z 25005KT 15SM FEW040 BKN110 BKN240 20/10 A2977 RMK CU1AC5CI2 CU TR SLP082 DENSITY ALT 900FT
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00:10:16 <oerjan> boily: i keep changing between my winter and spring jacket these days :/
00:11:17 <oerjan> temperature like a rollercoaster
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00:29:45 <\oren\> well, and now the mystery of "Who killed my process that was running on the server?"
00:30:17 <\oren\> Was it the butler, in the scullery, with the exacto knife?
00:38:16 <quintopia> it was boily in the wisdom file with the mapole
00:38:28 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA! aaaurgh! you ninjaed me!
00:40:32 <boily> he\\oren\. by the way, I didn't touch your process hth
00:46:44 <\oren\> it was the lead devloper, with pkill -9, in his home directory!
00:50:46 <boily> what's a huintopia?
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00:57:00 <oerjan> a mutated irish quintopia
00:58:02 <quintopia> it was oerjan in the Dahl library with the frying pan
00:59:18 <oerjan> i didn't do it and nobody saw me, but anyone who goes in the Dahl library gets what they deserve.
00:59:33 <boily> I believe the weapoerjan is the swatter hth
01:00:21 <oerjan> i've also got a saucepan ===\__/ and recently a skillet ==\____/
01:01:46 <boily> nothing like a properly seasoned skillet to sauté a few mushrooms here and there.
01:02:37 <shachaf> oerjan: what kind of skillet twh
01:02:44 <shachaf> boily: what kind of mushrooms twh
01:05:45 <boily> shachaf: https://www.dropbox.com/s/olds0tafcy5f1dl/IMG_20170523_200405.jpg?dl=0
01:06:00 <boily> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrsx38nm3byggg6/IMG_20170523_200433.jpg?dl=0
01:06:08 <boily> I don't know what they are, but they taste good.
01:07:23 <shachaf> imo go hunting for exciting wild mushrooms
01:10:06 <oerjan> shachaf: a sciientifically improved one hth
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01:10:24 <boily> there's the Mycoboutique ( http://www.mycoboutique.com/fr/ ) that does hunting sessions during the summer ^^
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01:12:08 <shachaf> oerjan: what is the material twh
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01:16:16 * boily mapoles oerjan. 0.99 FP.
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01:42:32 <boily> ah fungot. got banished into the abyss.
01:42:33 <fungot> boily: mhmm yes dying in a party tonight and drinking. :p http://panic.joroinen.fi/pk/ breakpoint03/ wild/ etc. is a lambda that takes the object, if you consider ( cons a. b)
01:43:04 <boily> fungot: dying is pretty much assured.
01:43:04 <fungot> boily: scheme is ideal for something like a liter of hot chocolate, or software?
01:43:37 <oerjan> fungot: mainly software, i think.
01:43:38 <fungot> oerjan: and only the whole program
01:43:53 <oerjan> fungot: no, it's supposedly also good in the REPL
01:43:54 <fungot> oerjan: exactly. can you recieve 2.2 gb per dcc?). since range-list works for a living
01:44:12 <oerjan> fungot: i... don't know.
01:44:13 <fungot> oerjan: i retract that, and for only a couple annoyances. ( the port is a regular procedure just like any other
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01:50:02 <HackEgo> i'n//I'n is a contraction of "I'm in" rdocscovered in the early 23rd century.
01:50:34 <boily> contractions of the language lead to pregnant pauses.
01:50:54 <boily> (or is it the other way round? I lack the recommended apparatus for that kind of thing...)
01:55:48 <HackEgo> 1/2:isjust//isJust is just a Haskell function to check if a value is Just a. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people. \ fourth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The \ languabe//Languabes are edible and fun. They provide a quick implementation energy boo
01:57:03 <shachaf> oerjan: languabe came up last time hth
01:57:19 <oerjan> (although it's what i expected you to forget)
01:57:46 <oerjan> i think i shall still have to clamp down on this kind of cheating.
01:58:05 <shachaf> maybe before you call something cheating, you can specify the rules twh
01:58:52 <oerjan> well the basic rule is that you only get to remove one of the 5, of course.
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02:07:04 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:07:39 <shachaf> oerjan: i followed that rule hth
02:07:52 <shachaf> 15:47 <HackEgo> 1/2:languabe//Languabes are edible and fun. They provide a quick implementation energy boost! \ recursion//You might expect a reference to
02:07:55 <shachaf> 17:55 <HackEgo> 1/2:isjust//isJust is just a Haskell function to check if a value is Just a. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show
02:11:16 <oerjan> the rest of the rule is that you must do any deletion before you do another bunch of 5 hth
02:19:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
02:19:13 <HackEgo> tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth.
02:21:41 <Cale> dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
02:22:26 <Cale> I forget how to inform it.
02:22:32 <shachaf> It just runs UNIX commands.
02:23:26 <shachaf> Anyway you use `learn but you have to look up how it works before you use it because otherwise you'll get it wrong.
02:23:32 <shachaf> Because it's so intuitive.
02:24:14 <\oren\> guten ...shit I don;t know the german word for evening
02:24:54 <shachaf> then why are you speaking german hth
02:26:08 <Cale> `le//rn dth//dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
02:26:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'dth': dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
02:26:43 <boily> \oren\: guten abend hth
02:28:47 <shachaf> who taught you about le//rn dtnh
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02:35:05 <Cale> :( my desktop machine won't POST
02:35:13 <oerjan> . o O ( `learn would have worked just fine :( )
02:36:12 <Cale> Does `learn use the first word as the word to define?
02:36:46 <oerjan> Deutsch ist eine sehr einfache Sprache.
02:36:56 <HackEgo> `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
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02:38:06 <oerjan> hey that GT roundtrips
02:41:08 <shachaf> As fizzie would call it, T.
02:45:26 <Cale> Pretty nice :)
02:46:05 <Cale> It's always fun to meet all the people who I've known for years from #haskell and never met face to face.
02:48:15 <alercah> Cool. A bunch of my coworkers were down there for a different conference last week
02:50:12 <oerjan> when all the seasoned conferencers gather
02:51:37 <zzo38> On a All The Tropes wiki article about computer RPG clice they mention: "It is proven that a human mind has an effect on random number generators. Your thoughts directly affect the RNG, and this is proven. This means that your mindset affects the RNG. Any thought you have affects the RNG, any thought at all will have an effect. This also means that once you start thinking the RNG is after you, it is. You now have nobody to blame but yourself."
02:52:09 <zzo38> I think there is two thing wrong with that: [1] Computer games are commonly using pseudorandom number generators. [2] I don't see how it implies that "once you start thinking the RNG is after you, it is."
02:52:59 <shachaf> it's called "pseudo" because it's affected by your mind hth
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03:16:32 <oerjan> your mind is retroactively affecting the seed hth
03:26:00 <zzo38> The seed is not necessarily made up by a true random number generator either (although sometimes it is based on the amount of time that passes).
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03:47:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:ravnica: city of guilds//Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name. \ nak//matrix//A matrix is just a matrix. People use them to
03:47:44 <HackEgo> 2/2: communicate. Taneb invented them. \ yoda//Yoda object-verb dialogue adopts. \ antediluvian//We could tell you what antediluvian means, but that would just open a flood of questions.
03:48:20 <shachaf> oerjan: wouldn't the flood of questions come first?
03:49:37 <shachaf> Cale: Can string diagrams give me good intuition for tensors?
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03:56:33 <Cale> shachaf: Maybe? I wouldn't expect them to give you all *that* much more intuition than ordinary diagrams though.
03:57:47 <Cale> shachaf: What do you want to know about tensors?
03:58:11 <Cale> You mean just tensor products of vector spaces?
03:58:14 <shachaf> Hmm, I don't remember anymore.
03:58:34 <shachaf> Start with anything, I guess.
03:59:27 <shachaf> I guess tensor product is a functor, so tensor products of linear maps matter, not just tensor products of vector spaces.
03:59:50 <shachaf> But when people say "tensor" they specifically mean V^n V*^m, right?
04:00:02 <Cale> Yeah, that's true, but that's part of the same story
04:00:07 <shachaf> Where multiplication is tensor product and V* is the dual space.
04:00:22 <Cale> That's certainly the case for some
04:01:00 <shachaf> Or they mean a multidimensional array.
04:01:09 <shachaf> But everyone says that's a bad way to think of it.
04:02:05 <Cale> So, one way to motivate the tensor product space is that in the category of sets, we have this nice adjunction that says a map A -> C^B is the same thing as a map A x B -> C
04:02:25 <shachaf> Sure, it's left adjoint to the internal hom.
04:02:31 <shachaf> That's a pretty good motivation.
04:03:10 <shachaf> I should probably get a better idea of why co/contravariance matters so much in linear maps.
04:03:37 <shachaf> It's obvious why it matters with functions, but a vecor space is isomorphic to its dual (though not naturally).
04:11:15 <quintopia> is a vecor space a vector space in which vectors are forbidden from being orthogonal (no 'T')?
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04:21:15 <zzo38> Has Knuth read yet what you wrote about MMIX?
04:23:01 <shachaf> zzo38: He read an email I wrote to him about MMIXware.
04:23:11 <zzo38> What did you write?
04:23:16 <shachaf> Then he added a "rant" to the text of MMIXware, and sent me a check.
04:24:03 <shachaf> I talked about how his C programs assume that argv[0] is non-NULL, whereas the C specification (and Linux/glibc) allow it to be NULL.
04:24:54 <shachaf> That wasn't really about MMIX, though.
04:25:18 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see why hth
04:25:43 <shachaf> oerjan: am i missing a pun here
04:26:03 <shachaf> The erratum is at http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/mmixware-errata.html
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04:38:06 <oerjan> shachaf: antedeluvian = before the flood hth
04:38:36 <shachaf> Oh, that was in reply to that.
04:38:50 <oerjan> . o O ( oh no, i just opened a flood of questions. and with shachaf, even )
04:38:56 <shachaf> Not sure what I was thinking.
04:38:59 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
04:39:12 <HackEgo> 9872:2016-12-05 <boil̈y> slwd shachaf//s/^/Queen / \ 9869:2016-12-05 <oerjän> learn_append shachaf He doesn\'t know when to stop asking questions. \ 9116:2016-09-29 <shachäf> slwd shachaf//s# T.*## \ 8814:2016-07-14 <boil̈y> slwd shachaf//s#^shachaf#Shachaf of the Dawn# \ 8553:2016-06-21 <shachäf> ` hg cat -r 8343 wisdom/shachaf > wisdom/sh
04:40:02 <shachaf> Now that Homescow is done.
04:41:47 <izabera> what is an example of a nontrivial file that <commonly used compression algorithm> cannot compress?
04:43:13 <zzo38> Yes, although I don't know if you want to count that?
04:44:19 <shachaf> oerjan: Hmm, /dev/random is infinite.
04:44:24 <shachaf> What does it mean to compress an infinite file?
04:44:38 <shachaf> Assuming it can't be generated by a finite program, which almost all infinite files can't.
04:44:46 <zzo38> Then use head -c to keep only the finite part, I suppose.
04:45:03 <shachaf> Ah, keep only the finite part and drop the infinite part. Makes sense.
04:45:28 <doesthiswork> I know a guy who has a hydraulic press you could use
04:46:22 <HackEgo> overflow:Overflow is a phenomenon that occurs when too much water pours into the inner tanks of a hydraulic computer.
04:47:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:music//The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. \ deep learning//Deep learning applies software engineering principles to AI. A deep learning network has numerous layers and no one understands what any of them do. \ char//Char is a prominent component of charcoal. \ quote//Quotes are just elements of the
04:47:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. \ tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so please stop using them. That would help.
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04:48:49 <doesthiswork> I bet image on a hydraulic computer can only be in a lossless format
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10:54:49 <HackEgo> kayayaya//Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya.
10:55:57 <shachaf> oerjan: the presence of a command as broken and useless as `3 in the 1 2 4 5 sequence is slightly irritating to me tdnh
11:01:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cedar101 * New user account
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11:39:45 <HackEgo> laver table//A laver table is a type of Welsh furniture primarily used for eating seaweed.
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12:08:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51987&oldid=51261 * BradleySadowsky * (+51) Added DROL Truth Machine
12:12:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51988&oldid=51956 * BradleySadowsky * (+73) /* External Links */ Added link to docs
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13:01:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51989&oldid=51988 * BradleySadowsky * (+3550) Major Version 3 Rollout Page update
13:03:45 <HackEgo> elendil//Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron.
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17:23:45 <HackEgo> bicategory//Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism.
17:32:09 <HackEgo> erkin//An erkin is a variety of cucumber: the West Indian or burr erkin (Cucumis anguria), which produces a somewhat smaller fruit than the garden cucumber (Cucumis sativus).
17:56:54 <HackEgo> palindrome//A palindrome is a word that remains the same if you take it to the mirror dimension, and then take each individual letter back to the normal dimension separately.
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19:42:31 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/wmiwxxl.jpg
19:47:31 <Taneb> It's amazing how much coding and algorithms can do
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19:56:34 <zzo38> Can make up some Magic: the Gathering card: {4} Artifact ;; When ~ enters the battlefield, create a tapped 0/1 Wall creature token with banding and defender. ;; Creature spells cost {1} more to cast if ~ is untapped.
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20:07:03 <zzo38> What can it be called, and any other suggestion maybe?
20:11:04 <zzo38> http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R7016
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20:12:21 <int-e> introduced 2016, far too recent for me
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21:35:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51990&oldid=51989 * BradleySadowsky * (+2) Corrected version number to semantic versioning
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22:22:39 <T-Rog> zzo38: I was told to come in here and ask you about D&D
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22:52:29 <zzo38> T-Rog: OK, what question?
22:53:56 <zzo38> If you do not tell me what question then I cannot answer you. OK
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22:56:57 <zzo38> T-Rog: What question you wanted to ask to me please?
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22:58:02 <T-Rog> zzo38: Do you prefer to DM using theater of the mind, or a map and mini figures?
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22:59:04 <zzo38> By mind. A map (on paper, not with figures) can still help in some situations, though.
22:59:26 <T-Rog> do you have a preferred campaign setting?
23:00:53 <zzo38> I am not the DM actually, although of course all of the player and DM will have the preferences and then you can put together. But if you read my level20.tex then you can see what some of it is! You can see how the different character are difference too.
23:02:26 <zzo38> All The Tropes wiki article: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/level20.tex
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23:06:36 <zzo38> T-Rog: Do you like this? If you read the story (from the source file, or the DVI or PDF) then you can see how we do it. There are some footnotes too, to explain. However, now I mostly play the GURPS I prefer it to the D&D mostly.
23:07:53 <zzo38> (That wiki article contains the links to those stuff)
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23:09:19 <zzo38> I even wrote my own TeX macro package for making the recording of story of Dungeons&Dragons game. You can keep track of experience points, spell lists, ability scores, skills, etc.
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23:09:54 * T-Rog doesn't know how to use TeX
23:10:19 <zzo38> Yes, I think TeX is probably best type setting system made so far (although it does have some problems too).
23:11:06 <shachaf> What's better: TeX or MMIX?
23:12:17 <zzo38> They are two different things; you cannot compare so well which one better.
23:12:50 <shachaf> If they were the same thing, you couldn't compare so well which one better.
23:12:58 <shachaf> But they're different things, which is what lets you compare.
23:12:59 <T-Rog> zzo38: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4jh0nc5rjb3m0f/D%26D%20Story.odt?dl=0
23:13:09 <T-Rog> I wrote this a while back, but the campaign didn't last very long
23:13:21 <zzo38> If they are same thing, is easily to compare: They are equal!
23:13:24 <T-Rog> it ended with the party TKing each other
23:13:27 <zzo38> If there is Pascal compiler to target MMIX then you can even run TeX on MMIX.
23:13:36 <zzo38> T-Rog: I do not have the program to load .odt file
23:13:57 <T-Rog> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kglkpzezros4q8a/D%26D%20Story.pdf?dl=0
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23:18:38 <zzo38> I suppose it is OK.
23:19:03 <zzo38> This is good too I think.
23:19:26 <zzo38> How many players are there though in there?
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23:20:54 <zzo38> It just says <number of players>
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23:23:50 <zzo38> T-Rog: Also what version you play? Is it 3.5 edition like I do?
23:24:39 <T-Rog> I've never played anything else, although I know a little about AD&D
23:24:51 <zzo38> The level20.tex is 3.5 edition.
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23:25:39 <zzo38> Do you know any about GURPS game?
23:25:45 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, i'm curious, do you have a phonetic pronunciation of Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe
23:26:58 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: I sometimes try, but I could never manage to do properly. I made up the name at random by use of a program I wrote in my TI-92 calculator, and just added the space. (The algorithm this program uses is based on an algorithm that was designed to be performed by throwing dice.)
23:27:41 <zzo38> No; he chose that name deliberately (probably to cause the confusion it causes).
23:28:52 <zzo38> My characters are Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe and Zeux Agem; Also is my brother's character.
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23:38:59 <oerjan> shachaf: feel free to invent a useful `3 command; as b_jonas pointed out, there is no real need for one.
23:39:37 <oerjan> (`3 analogous to `2 is just `n because it makes no sense unless you've already done `2.)
23:39:42 <shachaf> There's no need for 13 as a generalization of `2
23:39:54 <shachaf> But maybe as a generalization of `4
23:40:07 <HackEgo> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
23:40:23 <oerjan> well, we have `^`, it's just not currently well-adapted to standalone use.
23:40:29 <HackEgo> cat: bin/^`: No such file or directory
23:40:38 <HackEgo> cat: bin/^: No such file or directory
23:40:42 <HackEgo> [[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport
23:40:49 <oerjan> third time's the charm
23:40:52 <shachaf> Oh, becuase it's ` raised to a power, right.
23:41:08 <shachaf> Maybe it should split $1 on the first space?
23:41:44 <shachaf> I'm not sure it should have two different similar incompatible UIs.
23:41:48 <shachaf> That'll just be confusing.
23:41:51 <oerjan> that would work. in fact we have a command to help with that, what was it named...
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23:42:20 <zzo38> Do you think this level20.tex is full of Footnote Fever?
23:42:21 <HackEgo> 1/1:gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. \ _46bit//_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. \ lazy//La \ program//A program is an image created by means of prography. \ monoids//Monoids are just categories with single objects.
23:42:26 <HackEgo> 1/1:gotton//gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. \ _46bit//_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him. \ lazy//La \ program//A program is an image created by means of prography. \ monoids//Monoids are just categories with single objects.
23:42:35 <HackEgo> sep='//`' \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `# <comment>'"$sep"'<command>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ nur "${1#*$sep}"
23:43:02 <oerjan> that's not right for this.
23:43:41 <HackEgo> 10188:2017-01-29 <oerjän> slwd lazy//1cLa \ 10187:2017-01-29 <oerjän> le//rn lazy//la
23:44:10 <zzo38> boily: I suppose you are correct; it is not quite.
23:44:42 <oerjan> `slwd `1//s,ly,ly almost,
23:44:45 <HackEgo> `1//`1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly almost the obvious generalization of `4.
23:45:00 <oerjan> i just remembered `1 doesn't support quote.
23:45:40 <shachaf> Lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy Jane. she wants a drink of water so she waits and waits and waits and waits and waits for it to rain.
23:46:45 <boily> helloochaf. badoily?
23:47:18 <oerjan> . o O ( that `? program doesn't quite make sense... )
23:48:01 <shachaf> all the single objects / all the single objects
23:49:26 <shachaf> if a category has enough of them, it's a monoid?
23:50:35 <oerjan> `le/rn all the single objects//All the single objects went to form a class / but then they got a unit test / which none of them did pass.
23:50:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'all the single objects': All the single objects went to form a class / but then they got a unit test / which none of them did pass.
23:51:20 <oerjan> `slwd all the single objects//s,went,/ went,
23:51:22 <HackEgo> all the single objects//All the single objects / went to form a class / but then they got a unit test / which none of them did pass.
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23:52:24 <zzo38> T-Rog: Are you still on, today?
23:52:38 <T-Rog> I'm still here, if that's what you're asking
23:53:01 <T-Rog> I'm watching the video tutorials on how to use Roll20
23:55:46 <zzo38> I also invented another method of ability scores generation for Dungeons&Dragons which is call "Goldilock's Method" (I did not call it that, or anything else), and now with the permissions of DM, it mean some players in our games (including myself) are using it, while others prefer the traditional "4d6 drop lowest, rearrange" method.
23:55:51 <boily> if testing isn't painful, you're doing it wrong.
23:56:49 <T-Rog> and how does this "Goldilocks Method" work?
00:00:17 <zzo38> You choose one number 0 to 9 for each ability score. For each one, add that number to 1d8 then. Calculate total of all numbers. Calculate the percentage of total of each and use a lookup table. And then you get 2 bonus points for free; +1 bonus point for every full 3 points your total is below 72.
00:00:51 <zzo38> You get to try twice and can choose which set of ability scores you want.
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00:02:31 <zzo38> (Normally a computer is used to implement this method; I used the TI-92 programmable graphing calculator.)
00:02:42 <zzo38> Do you like this? Do you understand this kind of things?
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00:03:04 <T-Rog> Yes. Do you have a C or C++ implementation of this program?
00:03:53 <zzo38> No; only on TI-92 calculator, so far. (Later I may make an implementation in C or JavaScript though.)
00:05:47 <T-Rog> although I'm not sure what the lookup table is for
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00:09:39 <zzo38> Do you like these level20.tex stuff?
00:15:17 <zzo38> Here a description of the Goldilock's Method: http://sprunge.us/CeiY
00:17:44 <doesthiswork> if I've got a collection of vertexes on an N-cube what's largest distance I can place another vertex from them?
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00:27:06 <doesthiswork> me neither, and I am unusually fuzzythoughted today
00:33:28 <Phantom_Hoover> pick a word which has every low bit from the former and every high bit from the latter
00:36:33 <doesthiswork> there are many sets where a vertex fulfilling that condition doesn't exist
00:39:03 <doesthiswork> my first try was to treat the dimensions as independent and choose the least occupied half in each one
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00:47:22 <HackEgo> 1/3:turkey//Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. \ i,i//i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underw
00:47:40 <HackEgo> 2/3:ear, and I want to distract myself by saying". \ brick//Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. \ sauron//Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of
00:47:44 <HackEgo> 3/3: the Kings of Men and the conquest of the racists of Gondor. \ ough//Ough is equivalent to any and every possible VC syllable.
00:48:43 <fizzie> doesthiswork: If you don't care too much, you could always just start somewhere, iterate over all N edges, and walk to a (potentially bad) local minimum that way.
00:50:18 <doesthiswork> is there a way I can ensure that I'm in the basin of the global minima first?
00:51:05 <fizzie> Can't think of anything obvious, but that's not saying much.
00:55:43 <doesthiswork> I'll probably go with splitting on the dimension with the most difference and then add one to the weight of all the points on that size
00:57:20 <fizzie> Someone says it's an open problem how to select M binary strings of length N that have the largest possible minimum Hamming distance (or the largest number of M that still has minimum distance >= d), which are a little different problems but sorta similar.
00:59:01 <doesthiswork> Yeah, I think I'm asking a special case that isn't any easier
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01:37:36 <zzo38> I found the following Magic: the Gathering card that someone made up: Phyrexian Elemental War Mage {8} Legendary Artifact Creature - Artifact Mage (6/8) ;; Protection from players, but not combat damage dealt by creatures ;; Elementalist ({BWGRU}, {X}) ;; Elemental casting
01:38:47 <boily> Elementalist? Elemental casting???
01:39:01 <zzo38> It makes no sense.
01:44:41 <Phantom_Hoover> anyone know if ais523 is still working on his doctorate??
01:46:03 <zzo38> Maybe it isn't on Google
01:46:15 <shachaf> nothing isn't on google hth
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03:04:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[StackStacks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51991&oldid=44305 * Oj742 * (+143) /* Examples */ Truth Machine
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03:26:35 <wob_jonas> argh! the library catalog http://is down, so I can't extend my library borrows! I hope they fix that until tomorrow
03:26:47 <lambdabot> oerjan said 3d 52m 43s ago: <wob_jonas> I don't understand. Why would you need `3 and similar commands? <-- `3 is a joke command i made because `2 and `4 do entirely different things. `2 already
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03:48:49 <izabera> i have pointers that i get from malloc with 16 byte alignment, what's a good hash function for them?
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03:49:33 <izabera> something fast for hash tables
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04:53:23 <HackEgo> olist 1072: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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06:05:03 <wob_jonas> ais523! I haven't seen you for a long time
06:05:38 <ais523> nowdays I don't often join IRC, it's too much of a distraction and people keep demanding things from me
06:05:46 <ais523> (that said, didn't I see /you/ over at PPCG a while back?)
06:06:07 <wob_jonas> possibly. I posted a second answer there.
06:06:29 <ais523> right now I'm in the middle of a long backup
06:06:37 <wob_jonas> I don't much like PPCG because their golf challenge rules are somewhat vague and inconsistent about how golf takes input or output
06:07:34 <ais523> have you seen the thread about it?
06:07:43 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Did you try extending your library borrow by telephone?
06:08:22 <ais523> here: https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2447/62131
06:08:50 <ais523> that's a thread mostly about voting on what methods are allowed and what aren't, although it doesn't always produce conclusive results and I don't agree with all the results
06:10:35 <ais523> the "you can crash for boolean false" post is very controversial, it's on +19/-9 at the moment, which is very close to the ⅔ threshold specified by the post, and it's crossed the threshold several times in the last few days…
06:18:52 <wob_jonas> ais523: I looked at that thread. it wasn't clear enough. specifically, I wanted to know if it's valid to produce the output of the challenge on stdout but also print some irrelevant message to stderr. apparently it's valid.
06:19:14 <ais523> yes, we have another thread about that I think
06:19:17 <ais523> finding rules on meta is hard
06:19:23 <ais523> there are plans to do something about it but no real motion
06:19:35 <APic> Celebrate Towel-Day!
06:19:58 <zzo38> On anarchy golf, it is (almost) always valid to print irrelevant stuff on stderr, I think, as long as the correct output is printed to stdout (and not excessive stuff).
06:20:11 <wob_jonas> I know it's not easy because ppcg does a shitton of languages, so you can't just have a challenge demand output on stdout, because that would exclude some languages.
06:20:22 <wob_jonas> zzo38: anagolf restricts languages more
06:20:32 <wob_jonas> yeah, it still has like fifty or something
06:21:03 <zzo38> Yes, it does, but I am just saying that that is generally the policy on anarchy golf, at least.
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06:21:18 <ais523> wob_jonas: looks like there's a good summary post here (which I'd never seen before): https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/9658/62131
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06:21:52 <wob_jonas> but anagolf doesn't let you submit golf in, like, some programmable calculator or 80s home computer that doesn't know what stdout is
06:22:26 <zzo38> That is true too, that it doesn't.
06:23:14 <wob_jonas> though admittedly it does allow z80 without OS and some very minimal IO conventions
06:27:06 <zzo38> I did also once make up a way to make a code golf with 6502 instruction set, using a file with a one byte header. The NMOS 6502 instruction set is used, and executing any unstable instruction means it is automatically wrong (although stable unofficial instructions are OK). The memory map and I/O and a few other thing are controlled by the one byte header.
06:28:23 <wob_jonas> zzo38: memory map? as in, the input and output may be mapped to memory? or you may have banking?
06:29:59 <zzo38> There is no bankswitching, although it does control what address the I/O is mapped to. Let me to see if I have a link
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06:31:34 <wob_jonas> ais523: I've bought the PDF ebook version of Knuth TAOCP volumes 1,2,3,4. They're great. I've only seen one error:
06:31:53 <wob_jonas> in vol 1, the three greek letters in the MIX character set don't show up correctly (in the character set table and a few times in the text), instead some characters that look like accents are shown. I wonder what could have caused that error.
06:37:35 <zzo38> wob_jonas: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/golf6502
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06:38:56 <wob_jonas> zzo38: have you written an impl of this and tell anagolf to use it?
06:39:17 <wob_jonas> (or just published an impl and use it on pccg to solve new golf tasks or something)
06:40:04 <zzo38> I might do though, if so, probably writing in C and will provide a command-line switch to enable/disable standard tables and to tell how to report execution of unstable opcodes.
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06:45:36 <wob_jonas> zzo38: plus you could make an article on the esowiki, because this counts as an esolang
06:46:35 <zzo38> Yes, I could (unless someone else might do first, if you want to, in which case I may still improve it)
06:52:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51992&oldid=51380 * Oerjan * (+279) /* Quines */ Add my PPCG quine
06:54:53 <wob_jonas> zzo38: spec doesn't tell what the starting PC is. this is especially non-obvious for mapper 2.
06:55:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51993&oldid=51266 * Oerjan * (+278) /* /// */ Add my PPCG quine
06:55:42 <zzo38> It does. The low 2-bits of the header byte give the starting PC.
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07:30:51 <Sgeo> Why do I suddenly want to learn JVM bytecode?
07:30:53 <Sgeo> I should sleep
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08:23:37 <zzo38> Do you like the implementation of /// that I had made up? I am not sure how it should be worked in to the article in wiki, though. Do you know?
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16:39:59 <zzo38> Will you notify Lode Vandevenne about the changes I have made into LodePNG? Maybe they will want to merge them in their official version also
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18:34:15 <quintopia> no one knows how to contact that guy
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18:42:54 <int-e> true, there's absolutely no hint on http://lodev.org/lodepng/ not even a link to a github page
18:44:45 <int-e> and http://lodev.org/contact.html also cannot be found
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22:50:08 <shachaf> Cale: Did you see the talk about probability monads?
22:50:28 <shachaf> What do you think of that one type that paper defines?
22:50:47 <Cale> I didn't see it yet. The pull of the hallway is too strong
22:50:53 <Cale> But I'll watch it online :)
22:51:07 <Cale> Do you have a link to the paper handy?
22:51:09 <shachaf> instance Monad Dist where { return = Return; (>>=) = Bind }
22:51:13 <shachaf> http://mlg.eng.cam.ac.uk/pub/pdf/SciGhaGor15.pdf
22:51:34 <shachaf> This is kind of like a free monad except not satisfying the monad laws?
22:51:59 <shachaf> Unless you define equality some unusual way, I guess.
22:52:10 <shachaf> But why not just make it a free monad?
22:52:29 <Cale> Yeah, they should have just gone with a free monad there
22:52:52 <shachaf> Maybe the advantage of a nonfree monad is that you keep the user's association rather than right-associating everything.
22:53:00 <shachaf> And then maybe you can do something clever with it. Can you?
22:53:30 <shachaf> But I didn't see whether they do that.
22:53:37 <Cale> But if you're going to try to be clever, I would expect to have a Then constructor as well
22:53:48 <Cale> Because the function argument to Bind is as good as a black box
22:53:58 <Cale> Also, probably you'd want Applicative stuff
22:54:14 <Cale> So that you could avoid Bind as much as possible
22:54:15 <shachaf> Applicative is certainly much better for this sort of trickery, if you have it.
22:54:41 <shachaf> I think of join as a "choke point" or something, something that you want to minimize the use of as much as possible even if you do have monad operations.
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22:54:51 <shachaf> E.g. join (f <$> x <*> y <*> z)
22:54:52 <Cale> To some extent, it doesn't matter, up to some notion of semantic equivalence, it would satisfy the monad laws
22:54:58 <HackEgo> `slwd//`slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
22:55:05 <Cale> Like, if the constructors of the data type aren't exposed by the module
22:55:30 <Cale> CBind is interesting though
22:55:32 <shachaf> Sure, you can define your own equality which does this quotienting thing.
22:55:42 <Cale> I'm not entirely sure what to make of that
22:56:01 <shachaf> What was that one free monad implementation that was a newtype with a forall?
22:56:57 <Cale> Are you thinking of the "Freer monad"?
22:58:13 <shachaf> Oh, it was the thing roconnor named after twanvl. http://r6.ca/blog/20140210T181244Z.html
22:59:38 <HackEgo> 1/2:eridanipoid//Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects. \ canaima//Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here. \ ladder jump//Ladder jump is the phenomenon that in pract
22:59:54 <HackEgo> 2/2:ically all platformer games where the player character can climb up on ladders, it's faster to repeatedly jump and grab the ladder than to climb. \ mosquito//Mosquitos are tiny vampires, sucking out your soul.
23:00:13 <shachaf> Cale: Have you seen zzo38's Free type? I don't remember what he called it.
23:01:30 <shachaf> Foo f a = forall r. f r -> (a -> r) -> r
23:02:50 <shachaf> As zzo38 points out, Foo Void1 = Proxy, Foo Proxy = Identity, Foo Identity = Maybe, Foo (Const e) = (e ->), Foo (e ->) = Either e
23:03:14 <Cale> Right, yeah, the van Laarhoven free monad. I actually rather like that one, as it's easy to explain from a software engineering kind of perspective.
23:03:51 <Cale> It's what you naturally end up with by abstracting over a bunch of operations, and then abstracting over the way you're doing that :)
23:04:13 <shachaf> There's the definition of various free algebraic structures using forall.
23:04:28 <shachaf> E.g. FreeGroup a = forall r. Group r => (a -> r) -> r
23:04:33 <shachaf> Is this the same sort of thing?
23:13:58 <Cale> I guess actually saying what "the same sort of thing" means in a formal way is a bit tricky though.
23:14:44 <Cale> There's probably some means of doing it, and it probably involves Kan extensions somehow :D
23:17:40 <shachaf> Anyway is this Foo type also related to adjunctions?
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23:47:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Digital Hunter * New user account
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00:15:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51994 * Timtomtoaster * (+3998) Created page with "Pronounced ''tools-whack'', '''TEWELSWAC''' is an idea for a programming language by User:Timtomtoaster. As you can see, I'm not great at naming things (look at [[eWagon]]). T..."
00:17:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51995&oldid=51954 * Timtomtoaster * (-67)
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00:26:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Timtomtoaster]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51996 * Timtomtoaster * (+385) Created page with "Hi, everyone! I'm a 7<sup>th</sup> grader who is interested in programming. Right now I only know Python and a tiny bit of C and D, but I plan to learn more D code soon. As of..."
00:29:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51997&oldid=51994 * Timtomtoaster * (+74)
00:39:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51998&oldid=51997 * Timtomtoaster * (+484)
00:41:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51999&oldid=51998 * Timtomtoaster * (+138)
00:42:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52000&oldid=51943 * Timtomtoaster * (+16) /* T */
00:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52001&oldid=51999 * Timtomtoaster * (+87)
00:49:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52002&oldid=52001 * Timtomtoaster * (+4)
00:50:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52003&oldid=52002 * Timtomtoaster * (-159)
00:51:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52004&oldid=52003 * Timtomtoaster * (-3)
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00:52:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52005&oldid=52004 * Timtomtoaster * (+0)
00:57:41 <lambdabot> PAMR 252353Z 13006KT 9SM -RA SCT040 BKN047 OVC055 06/02 A2993 RMK AO2 RAE2258B22 SLP138 P0002 60002 T00610022 10122 20050 55000
01:04:26 -!- sleffy has joined.
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01:15:12 <lambdabot> KATL 252352Z 28010KT 10SM FEW050 21/10 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP099 T02060100 10228 20206 52012
01:15:42 <lambdabot> KOAK 252353Z 22021G26KT 10SM FEW024 FEW035 18/11 A2979 RMK AO2 PK WND 23027/2304 SLP088 T01830106 10189 20172 56004
01:15:45 <quintopia> I never get the hang of reading that
01:15:49 <lambdabot> KSJC 252353Z 19017G26KT 10SM FEW014 FEW038 19/10 A2977 RMK AO2 PK WND 18028/2313 SLP082 T01890100 10200 20183 58004
01:15:53 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
01:15:55 <lambdabot> CYUL 260000Z 08019G28KT 7SM -RA FEW028 OVC048 14/11 A2970 RMK SC2SC6 SLP061 DENSITY ALT 200FT \ ENVA 252350Z 26008KT 9999 FEW017 BKN041 09/07 Q1019 RMK WIND 670FT 28012KT \ ESSB 252350Z AUTO
01:15:55 <lambdabot> 00000KT 9999 OVC074/// 10/09 Q1014 \ KOAK 252353Z 22021G26KT 10SM FEW024 FEW035 18/11 A2979 RMK AO2 PK WND 23027/2304 SLP088 T01830106 10189 20172 56004 \ PAMR 260008Z 11005G15KT 5SM GR SCT021
01:15:55 <lambdabot> BKN047 OVC055 04/02 A2993 RMK AO2 RAE06GRB06 P0005 T00440017
01:17:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:p//P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. \ lmt//lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. \ spork//A spork is something to be randomly held in front of penguins. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. \ frenemy//Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and kin
01:17:31 <HackEgo> p//P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. \ lmt//lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. \ spork//A spork is something to be randomly held in front of penguins. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. \ frenemy//Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and kin \ g Dee Dee.
01:17:39 <shachaf> Clearly distort is too conservative.
01:17:54 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
01:18:18 <lambdabot> CYUL 260000Z 08019G28KT 7SM -RA FEW028 OVC048 14/11 A2970 RMK SC2SC6 SLP061 DENSITY ALT 200FT
01:18:32 <shachaf> boily: Please figure out the optimal N for distort. That would help.
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01:20:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EWagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52006&oldid=51995 * Quintopia * (-25) We have a category for those.
01:20:52 <boily> helloochaf. which N?
01:26:25 <hppavilion[1]> I recently discovered https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cloud_type_symbols
01:26:36 <hppavilion[1]> I think there needs to be a cloud-computing language based on that
01:28:48 <oerjan> `` echo -n 9999/10000:; cat tmp/spout
01:28:49 <HackEgo> 9999/10000:p//P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. \ lmt//lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. \ spork//A spork is something to be randomly held in front of penguins. \ ĥäŝkéll//ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. \ frenemy//Frenemy is the relationship between Kirby and kin \
01:29:05 <oerjan> shachaf: it is exactly as designed hth
01:29:39 <shachaf> oerjan: yes but the designer was talking nonsense hth
01:29:50 <shachaf> who would make a 10000-line spam
01:30:03 <oerjan> otherwise, you need to calculate lengths of the prefix to know where to split
01:30:29 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decision problems that are No Problem.
01:31:21 <HackEgo> Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:31:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you like mushrooms?
01:32:02 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:32:29 * oerjan swats shachaf for making him hungry -----###
01:32:48 <shachaf> obviously you're not going to use the skillet
01:32:53 <shachaf> because you have a better use for it currently
01:33:03 <oerjan> but i have no mushrooms ;_;
01:33:16 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arc-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:33:36 <shachaf> oerjan: I fried all sorts of mushrooms the other day.
01:33:44 <shachaf> Maybe you should've come visit.
01:33:56 <shachaf> When you visit I'll also give you a bunch of Magic: The Gathering cards.
01:35:08 <quintopia> oerjan doesnt VISIT. if you see him coming, run
01:36:34 <shachaf> What kinds of delicious wild mushrooms grow in Norway?
01:36:55 <boily> I need moar mushrooms. and magic cards.
01:37:04 <HackEgo> Corpse Harvester \ 3BB \ Creature -- Zombie Wizard \ 3/3 \ {1}{B}, {T}, Sacrifice a creature: Search your library for a Zombie card and a Swamp card, reveal them, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library. \ LGN-U, HOP-U
01:37:14 <boily> incidentally, my new deck arrived today ^^ first time playing standard.
01:37:38 <shachaf> Is it based on Bogbrew Witch?
01:38:14 <quintopia> is it based on Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel?
01:38:25 <boily> sadly not, and still not.
01:38:44 <oerjan> shachaf: chanterelles is the only one i remember the english name of
01:39:00 <shachaf> Forest is a pretty good card.
01:39:17 <boily> it's stormchaser mage, enigma drake, and ways to make everything gleefully unblockable.
01:39:27 <shachaf> That sounds red or blue or something.
01:39:52 <oerjan> i suppose theoretically you _can_ find button mushrooms too. but they're a bit discouraged for being similar to the deathcap.
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01:40:42 <boily> we have an upcoming tournament at my job, and this time it's standard budget (everything under USD 33.00).
01:40:48 <oerjan> morels exist. i don't recall how they taste.
01:43:09 <oerjan> the other common mushroom i recall apparently has the english name "terracotta hedgehog"
01:44:34 <boily> morels give you many points, but good luck gathering all three...
01:45:25 <shachaf> kmc: do you know that mushroom twh
01:45:47 <oerjan> well, and the whiter variant, which is just "hedgehog mushroom".
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01:49:12 <oerjan> milk-caps are also among the top mushrooms, i think.
01:50:53 <kmc> morels are so delicious
01:51:23 <kmc> shachaf: that is a strange mushroom. i have no heard of it
01:52:02 <kmc> oerjan: is the white variant Hydnum repandum, or Hericium erinaceus
01:52:08 <kmc> the latter is common here; I've even grown them at home
01:52:13 <kmc> don't think i've seen either of the other hedgehog mushrooms
01:52:42 <kmc> i agree about not foraging for button mushrooms
01:52:48 <kmc> dangerous, and they're tasty and cheap from the store
01:53:10 <kmc> around here though we sometimes find Agaricus augustus, the prince! and it's similar to a portabello but tastier (tastes of almonds)
01:53:21 <kmc> I think it is easy to tell an agaricus from an amanita once it has opened up
01:54:02 <kmc> brown/tan gills vs white
01:54:50 <kmc> also amanitas have a volva
01:54:57 <kmc> but don't take my word on any of this stuff
01:54:59 <kmc> you may die
01:55:13 <kmc> chanterelles are p. tasty too
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01:55:28 <kmc> we went hunting for mushrooms last weekend but didn't find anything worth picking :(
01:56:29 <kmc> if you get morels, stuff them with cream cheese and chives, cover them in beer batter and then fry them
02:01:32 <boily> won't that soak them?
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02:21:02 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used to describe something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted to be more flowing, thereby allowing wind to pass it with less resistance.
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02:28:44 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,to describe,for the description of,;s,to be,into a more;s:,: shape,:s,less,significantly less amount of,
02:28:45 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 62: unknown option to `s'
02:29:20 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,to describe,for the description of,;s,to be,into a more,;s:,: shape,:s,less,significantly less amount of,
02:29:21 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 72: unknown option to `s'
02:29:41 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,to describe,for the description of,;s,to be,into a more,;s:,: shape,:;s,less,significantly less amount of,
02:29:43 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used for the description of something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted into a more more flowing shape, thereby allowing wind to pass it with significantly less amount of resistance.
02:30:12 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,more ,,
02:30:14 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used for the description of something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted into a more flowing shape, thereby allowing wind to pass it with significantly less amount of resistance.
02:30:34 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,sig,a sig,
02:30:36 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used for the description of something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted into a more flowing shape, thereby allowing wind to pass it with a significantly less amount of resistance.
02:30:54 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,less,smaller,
02:30:56 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used for the description of something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted into a more flowing shape, thereby allowing wind to pass it with a significantly smaller amount of resistance.
02:31:20 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s,e ,al ,
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02:31:22 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjectival phrase used for the description of something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted into a more flowing shape, thereby allowing wind to pass it with a significantly smaller amount of resistance.
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03:02:45 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän Zarutiän
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03:59:31 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/MathJokes/comments/6dbjbh/in_mathematics_0_1/
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05:48:31 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/XU8oQ4.jpg
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06:57:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52007&oldid=51897 * Primo * (+1087) /* 0-99 */ filling in the gaps for non-wrapping and soft-wrapping
06:59:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52008&oldid=52007 * Primo * (+3218) /* 100-149 */ filling in the gaps for non-wrapping and soft-wrapping
07:01:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52009&oldid=52008 * Primo * (+4039) /* 150-199 */ filling in the gaps for non-wrapping and soft-wrapping
07:03:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52010&oldid=52009 * Primo * (+5629) /* 200-255 */ filling in the gaps for non-wrapping and soft-wrapping
07:05:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52011&oldid=51921 * Primo * (+72) /* Updates to non-wrapping solutions */
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08:00:12 <wob_jonas> I hate this stupid interface: http://nav.gov.hu/nav/ugyfelszolg
08:01:22 <wob_jonas> I just want a list of all the fucking NAV uf in Budapest. There's only like thirty or forty, it wouldn't be too hard. But no, it's just useless like "tell us your location and we'll give you the ten offices that we think are the closest to you"
08:01:36 <wob_jonas> I tried for ten minutes and still can't make it give me a complete fucking list
08:04:15 <wob_jonas> just what the fuck is wrong with people making webpages these days?
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18:09:30 <HackEgo> olist 1073: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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19:09:43 <int-e> wee, ghc's DynFlags record has 144 fields...
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20:16:46 <zzo38> "As zzo38 points out, Foo Void1 = Proxy, Foo Proxy = Identity, Foo Identity = Maybe, Foo (Const e) = (e ->), Foo (e ->) = Either e" But that is not the only thing; I also mentioned that you can make a MonadPlus from any Comonad.
20:17:08 <shachaf> I didn't say that was all zzo38 points out.
20:24:11 <zzo38> The problem with what wob_jonas is mention is even to require to use the webpage at all; it can be better using with SQL. And then you can make up your own kind of queries too. There is even a R*Tree module to use with SQL in case you need geospatial queries. (By default it is using rectangles, but it is possible to define other geometries too, such as circles.)
20:35:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52012&oldid=51976 * Zzo38 * (+391)
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20:48:39 <HackEgo> olist 1073: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:48:51 <shachaf> wob_jonas: already been olisted tdnh
20:49:47 <wob_jonas> shachaf: are you sure? the logs don't say so. note that I olisted 1072 two days ago
20:50:09 <shachaf> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/17.05.26
20:50:45 <shachaf> You can also see zzo38's response to your thing in that log.
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22:45:50 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess you'll be happy to know I'm migrating to Prometheus.
22:46:57 <shachaf> Prometheus? Sounds like a clone of something Google had a decade ago.
22:47:20 <fizzie> I just don't think it can be any crummier than the Influx stuff.
22:47:42 <shachaf> It's really only meant for monitoring/ephemeral data, though.
22:48:02 <shachaf> I thought you had some other sorts of time series.
22:48:33 <fizzie> I'm thinking I'll export select interesting bits as downsampled time series to some external thing from it.
22:48:44 <fizzie> But I never got around to setting up alerts on the TICK stack, and that's a scow.
22:49:30 <fizzie> It's a monitoring thing with a (short-term) time series storage thing and an alerting thing.
22:50:09 <shachaf> fizzie: this has nothing to do with trains
22:50:16 <shachaf> have you considered saying it in #trains-offtopic hth
22:50:35 <shachaf> Phantom__Hoover: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1X1rKozAUuF2MVc1YXElFWq9wkcWv3Axdldl8LOH9Vik
22:51:52 <shachaf> These slides talk about BNS.
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22:51:59 <shachaf> fizzie: What's the alternative to BNS that everyone uses?
22:52:51 <fizzie> I don't know. I was looking at the Prometheus docs and it's got like a bazillion service discovery integrations with names I've never even heard of.
22:53:05 <shachaf> That's true. I guess there's nothing everyone uses.
22:53:59 <fizzie> I think Consul is kind of genericy, but I don't know if anyone's using it.
22:55:42 <fizzie> Fortunately I don't have anything that scales, so my monitoring doesn't need to scale either.
22:55:59 <shachaf> fizzie just wants to serve [redacted]
22:57:15 <fizzie> I got re-inspired by monitoring when my home interweb was (well, still is) being sucky, and I could write a complaint to my ISP with lots and lots of data in there.
22:57:50 <shachaf> I run Prometheus and node_exporter on localhost nowadays.
22:58:25 <shachaf> That way I can get all sorts of data about my computer.
22:58:32 <shachaf> I guess "on localhost" is not a very descriptive thing to say.
23:00:31 <fizzie> So far I've ported over 80% of my collectd <-> InfluxDB things to Prometheus + prometheus-node-exporter, which seems like a very good match. I'm not sure it's the right thing for a thing I really only feel like crawling once a day, because it's too flaky and heavyweight to fetch, though.
23:05:42 <shachaf> Well, you could put those things in pushgateway or something and run the crawling process yourself, I guess.
23:06:27 <fizzie> I was thinking either that, or, if I want to have an external long-term storage thing anyway, I could just write directly to it.
23:06:44 <shachaf> Depends on whether you want to do joins with it etc.
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23:43:00 <shachaf> fizzie: A .fi domain is going to expire soon.
23:43:09 <shachaf> I'd like to register it, but I'll probably have some competition.
23:43:17 <shachaf> Do you know any good tricks?
23:47:34 <fizzie> I don't know any tricks. The whole registry/registrar model is pretty new to .fi.
23:48:36 <shachaf> Oh, scow, it was renewed past expiration date but before availability date.
23:49:35 <fizzie> I don't think there are any tricks that would've helped with that. Except the sort of tricks that involve a rubber hose.
23:50:42 <fizzie> `thanks tab completion
23:50:43 <HackEgo> Thanks, tab completion. Thab completion.
23:51:32 <fizzie> I just learned about "iptables-apply", which is basically just a wrapper around iptables-restore, except it asks y/n, and if you don't answer y (for example, because you screwed up and your SSH connection was lost) it reverts back to the previous configuration.
23:52:02 <shachaf> 02:24 <shachaf> Did you know bash-completion runs programs with --help to tab-complete them for you?
23:52:05 <shachaf> 02:24 <shachaf> Including e.g. programs named ./configure
23:53:21 <int-e> what could possibly go wrong?!
23:54:26 <fizzie> The last few weeks, there's been at least five times I've written "bazel //[REDACTED]" at work, tried to tab-complete, spent a moment checking and double-checking what's wrong with the path, before realizing I should've written the other word that starts with b.
23:55:16 <lambdabot> LOWI 262220Z AUTO VRB01KT 9999 NCD 14/09 Q1021
23:55:20 <fizzie> Does a bash alias automatically transfer autocomplete settings as well?
23:56:34 <shachaf> i,i the other word that starts with b and also contains all the other letters
23:56:47 <fizzie> Yes, but in a different order.
23:57:00 <lambdabot> EGLL 262250Z AUTO 09007KT 9999 NCD 17/13 Q1014 NOSIG
23:57:05 <lambdabot> KOAK 262253Z 28012KT 10SM SCT033 OVC041 19/10 A3000 RMK AO2 SLP159 T01890100
23:57:10 <shachaf> Do you think bazel has the right philosophy for how build systems should work?
23:57:27 <fizzie> (It's been so warm today. It's still 24.6 degrees in here.)
00:02:12 <HackEgo> 1/2:nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break maths. \ #programming//No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ potatoes//You are not allowed
00:02:17 <HackEgo> 2/2:to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit. \ grue//grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean
00:02:44 <HackEgo> 10653:2017-04-13 <oerjän> ` cd wisdom; sed -i \'s/ $//\' `grwp -l \' $\' | grep -v rules` \ 8889:2016-08-02 <b_jonäs> slashlearn potatoes/You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
00:03:13 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:03:16 <fizzie> I don't know what to think. I like most of it, but it does feel like it'd prefer everything to be in a single repository.
00:03:22 <fizzie> For example, if you do thing A and thing B, and they both would like to use thing C, and then you'd like to share all your things, I'm not sure how that would best work.
00:03:27 <fizzie> You can put things A, B and C each in its own workspace, and use WORKSPACE rules. But if you use local_repository, you can't check that in to version control, because the paths would make no sense. And if you use http_archive, you'd have to publish all changes of C before getting them in A or B.
00:03:34 <fizzie> I guess you could have a checked-in WORKSPACE using http_archive, and a local branch or some-such that uses local_repository instead, but local customizations like that are always so fiddly to use.
00:04:01 <shachaf> You mean, how that would work in the open-source world?
00:04:21 <shachaf> I think it wouldn't, as-is.
00:04:52 <shachaf> There are various tricky questions you'd need to answer before you could effectively use a system in a context like that.
00:05:13 <shachaf> (But there are also all sorts of orthogonal ideas you could import that most build systems don't have for some reason.)
00:05:16 <fizzie> Also I guess there's that thing where other people have different kind of systems, and maybe you'd do some sort of autoconfy/cmakey things, and I don't think Bazel really does that sort of stuff.
00:05:43 <zzo38> I have not needed build systems.
00:06:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like Google Search?
00:07:55 <shachaf> Bazel cares about reproducible builds a lot. Maybe more than is feasible in a non-monorepo world?
00:08:22 <zzo38> I don't really like Google Search so much, with all of its various problems and that stuff
00:09:05 <shachaf> Maybe you would like it more if they presented an interface over Gopher.
00:09:41 <zzo38> That isn't really the problem though. (For gopher search you can as well using Veronica.)
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00:17:17 <HackEgo> 1/2:itymology//Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement. \ deniability//Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ pokemon red//Pokemon Red is a low-level handheld programming language disguised as a game, allowing you to execute arbitrary code from anywhere. \ primative//A primative is a reference to a valu
00:17:24 <HackEgo> 2/2:e that you were robbed of. \ marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
00:18:17 <shachaf> oerjan: imo primative should be either fixed or forgotten
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00:36:54 <HackEgo> 6027:2015-09-23 <boil̈y> learn A primative is a reference to a value that you were robbed of.
00:42:31 <oerjan> we may have to ask boily what it means.
00:42:43 <oerjan> @ask boily what does `? primative mean?
00:43:03 <oerjan> `` grwp invent | grep not
00:43:08 <shachaf> is it a pun on "primate" and "primitive"?
00:43:17 <shachaf> that could be good but i can't make head nor tails of it
00:43:20 <HackEgo> a:A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. \ bdsm:BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. \ cocoa:A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. \ deniability:Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ denial:Sorry, b
00:43:33 <oerjan> `2 grwp invent | grep not
00:43:35 <HackEgo> 2/7:enial:Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it. \ fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists
00:44:04 <HackEgo> 3/7:a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent. \ masochism:Masochism (where the <ch> is pronounced as [x]) is when somebody voluntarily does natural language processing for German. Taneb did not invent it, according to clerical records. \ metronome:A metronome is an ancient and highly sophisticated instrument typically u
00:44:32 <shachaf> I don't follow that theorem.
00:44:36 <shachaf> `cwlprits fundamental theorem of taneb
00:45:06 <shachaf> tswett: that makes no sense please invent a better fundamental theorem that would help thanks in advance
00:45:46 <oerjan> shachaf: it implies that Tanebventions are omega-inconsistent hth
00:46:41 <oerjan> `slwd fundamental theorem of taneb//s,thing,thing not involving sex,
00:46:43 <HackEgo> fundamental theorem of taneb//The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent.
00:47:59 <oerjan> hm now that is missing from T, making the theorem trivial.
00:48:41 <zzo38> Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial!
00:49:32 <oerjan> `slwd fundamental theorem of taneb//s,thing that,thing not involving sex that,
00:49:34 <HackEgo> fundamental theorem of taneb//The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing not involving sex that Taneb did not invent.
00:50:31 <zzo38> I am not sure how such a thing is possible, but I may have missed something
00:50:44 <shachaf> "forall S, thing(S) -> Taneb(S)", and also "exists S, thing(S) and not Taneb(S)"?
00:50:55 <oerjan> the proofs are, of course, non-constructive.
00:50:56 <shachaf> I agree with zzo38 on this matter.
00:51:08 <oerjan> shachaf: the second proof is of a false theorem.
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00:51:38 <zzo38> O, that's how it works. Then it isn't a very good proof, isn't it?
00:51:39 <HackEgo> segmentation fault:The Segmentation Fault is just of the Silicon Valley and is known to produce various hiccups at the most inconvienent times. \ אrjan:אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:51:42 <oerjan> you really should look up omega-inconsistency.
00:53:08 <zzo38> I did look up omega-inconsistency in Wikipedia.
00:53:50 <shachaf> Which web browser did you use to do it?
00:53:57 <int-e> oh, non-standard strings... fancy
00:54:17 <zzo38> Firefox (although with many of my own customizations applied, as well as other extensions)
00:55:39 <int-e> oerjan: perhaps the entry is too wise if it has to be explained.
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00:58:37 <zzo38> However I think that there is problem of all of the web browser program these day anyways, I should think new one will be needed, which can be the "paranoid web browser" (or the "wwwparanoia"). It can to assume the user knows what they are doing (so don't try to overrride them), but that the stuff coming from the server may potentially be malicious and/or incompetent.
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01:00:04 <oerjan> ais523's big polyglot challenge keeps churning
01:00:28 <zzo38> What is ais523's big polyglot challenge?
01:00:59 <oerjan> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/102370/add-a-language-to-a-polyglot/123028#123028
01:01:17 <oerjan> they just added the 65th language
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01:06:26 <zzo38> I invented a polyglot in SQL and C, but I would not know how to add anything into that program, considering using many kind of programming languages that I do not know how to program.
01:10:09 <oerjan> i think lately it has been mostly the same users who keep adding new ones, except the previous one was by a newcomer to the challenge.
01:10:56 <oerjan> so there may be about four people now, they also have a chat channel to help each others get past sticky points.
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01:20:30 <zzo38> Why does DEFLATE compression involve some unused codes?
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01:35:43 <zzo38> The way that LodePNG makes the LZ77 encoding is not like the way I think would seem better to me. The way I would represent it internally is to use a array of 16-bit numbers, where 0 means a literal code, and nonzero indicates that this number is a length and then the next number is the distance; the length number is then the amount to skip from that point in order to read the next code. It seem to me that this would make it easier to do the kinds
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01:37:11 <zzo38> (Because the length has to be at least 3 for DEFLATE, conflicts cannot occur.)
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03:43:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Klein]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52013 * Wheatwizard * (+2951) Created page with "Klein is a 2D esoteric language with flexible topology designed by Stack Exchange user [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/56656/ Wheat wizard]. == Surfaces == Current..."
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05:36:20 <lambdabot> ddarius says: < ddarius> xtalmath: #math or #not-math would probably be a more appropriate place to ask. < shachaf> ddarius: Those two channels pretty much cover it all. < ddarius> shachaf: You're
05:36:43 <lambdabot> ddarius says: firefly: I am not in the school of making a language cater to beginners at the expense of experienced users.
05:36:59 <lambdabot> ddarius says: "use the right platitude for the job"
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06:23:28 <shachaf> fizzie: imo you should expose your prometheus endpoint publicly twh
06:24:16 <oerjan> . o O ( that sounds like a bit of a euphemism )
06:31:53 <shachaf> oerjan: please swat yourself twh
06:33:31 * oerjan applies the swatter in a vihta-like manner -----###
06:35:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.) \ gazspaczo//gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerv
06:35:31 <HackEgo> 2/2:ed cold for hot szummer dayz \ extreme irony//Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing. \ tab//Tab is both a computer keyboard key and a soda pop brand. \ we//We are the champions.
06:35:55 <pikhq> Hmm. I think we need an Old English welcome.
06:36:10 <shachaf> Are you still universitting?
06:36:30 <shachaf> Are you going to move back to silly valley?
06:36:43 <zzo38> Do you know how to write Old English?
06:36:43 <pikhq> That will be a function of its silliness.
06:37:02 <zzo38> Then you must learn. And then you can write the Old English welcome.
06:37:16 <pikhq> shachaf: Mi ne skribelas.
06:37:16 <HackEgo> LATINA EST SVBLIMISSIMA LINGVA MVNDI
06:37:31 <shachaf> zzo38: You could hire someone who knows how to write Old English instead.
06:37:44 <HackEgo> 10208:2017-02-05 <oerjän> slwd latin//s/U/V/g \ 7344:2016-04-01 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/latin{a,}
06:38:13 <zzo38> I don't know anyone who does.
06:38:33 <oerjan> just find an old englishman, duh
06:39:20 <oerjan> well if they killed off the old englishmen, then obviously you cannot learn old english.
06:40:02 <shachaf> mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun
06:40:02 <zzo38> No I think they are dead from aging
06:40:04 <pikhq> There are plenty of people with a moderate clue about the language.
06:40:32 <zzo38> Do you know how to write in Latin though?
06:40:49 <pikhq> Granted, one may have an easier time finding fluent Klingon speakers than Old English speakers.
06:41:03 <shachaf> zzo38: I think you just write in all uppercase and replace U with V
06:41:33 <pikhq> I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS MAKES FOR GOOD LATIN.
06:41:57 <shachaf> Well, obviously you have to write the right uppercase letters too.
06:42:28 <oerjan> COGITO SCRIBEST IN CAPITALIBVS REPLACENDIS VIS CUM VIS
06:44:38 <shachaf> in fact he needs to be described a little bit
06:45:02 <pikhq> I've come to the conclusion I possess far too few citizenships.
06:45:10 <pikhq> It's a shame they're rather tricky to obtain.
06:46:00 <pikhq> I'm a citizen of the United States, and of Colorado.
06:46:07 <pikhq> oerjan: You're also a European citizen, I believe.
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06:46:22 <shachaf> pikhq: What's a citizen of Colorado?
06:47:04 <shachaf> oh, as far as harald knows
06:47:21 <pikhq> In essence, in the states you kinda-sorta have a simultaneous citizenship status with the state you reside in.
06:47:41 <shachaf> Is this distinct from being a resident?
06:48:01 <shachaf> Let's see. I live in California now. What would happen if I moved outside the US?
06:48:12 <pikhq> You would retain your California citizenship.
06:48:21 <oerjan> pikhq: europe counts as a citizenship?
06:48:23 <shachaf> I'd continue filing federal tax returns with the IRS. Would I be required ro do anything involving CA taxes as well?
06:48:40 <pikhq> shachaf: I don't think so.
06:48:53 <pikhq> oerjan: Oh, wait, you're not a European citizen.
06:49:00 <shachaf> What about voting in CA elections?
06:49:06 <pikhq> oerjan: You're in a Schengen country, not an EU country.
06:49:25 <shachaf> According to the pikhq system, you're a Schengen citizen, and also a Trondheim citizen.
06:49:35 <pikhq> shachaf: You'd continue to vote in CA elections as though you lived where you last lived in CA.
06:49:35 <oerjan> i'm a european quasitizen
06:49:46 <pikhq> shachaf: State citizenship is a legally recognized thing in the US.
06:49:48 <shachaf> california taxes are p. high #scow
06:50:53 <pikhq> Mostly as a legacy of the days when it was "the United States are ...", granted.
06:51:25 <shachaf> Why does state income tax vary so much?
06:51:57 <pikhq> Same reason national income taxes vary so much.
06:52:28 <zzo38> My GURPS character Ziveruskex is know Latin, but only reading/writing Latin and not speeching Latin. But it is fictional character I cannot ask them how to write in Latin. Even in All The Tropes wiki says Smart People Know Latin.
06:52:48 <zzo38> shachaf: Because the government wants to earn a lot of money.
06:53:00 <pikhq> Different budgetary requirements, as well as different choices of ways to meet them.
06:53:25 <shachaf> Does WA have a lower budgetary requirement than CA, or does it meet it in a different way?
06:54:09 <pikhq> Washington has a state-wide sales tax, and much higher property taxes.
06:54:51 <shachaf> CA has a state-wide sales tax too.
06:55:00 <shachaf> In fact the rate is higher than WA's?
06:55:36 <pikhq> Though the net effective tax rate is higher, as municipalities in WA are more likely to heap on top of that.
06:56:19 <shachaf> Also I spend way more money on income tax than on sales tax.
06:56:29 <shachaf> I suppose that's related to income tax being progressive.
06:56:30 <pikhq> Yes, sales tax is a regressive tax.
06:57:00 <shachaf> I remember sales tax being similar when I lived in WA and when I lived in CA.
06:57:08 <shachaf> But I never looked carefully.
06:57:09 <zzo38> No, the reason is because the government wants to earn a lot of money.
06:57:24 <pikhq> CA in part has the massive problem that property taxes are *really* low in CA relative to local property values.
06:57:49 <shachaf> would you say prop 13 is the scow of props
06:58:06 <pikhq> California also, admittedly, runs some politically popular but quite pricy programs.
06:58:16 <pikhq> I would say that, yes.
06:58:43 <shachaf> but then what would you say about prop 8 hth
06:58:54 <pikhq> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_and_local_taxes_Per_capita_by_type.png Apparently, the effective tax rate in CA is actually quite low.
06:58:55 <shachaf> imo there are all sorts of scow props
06:59:19 <pikhq> I wonder how the fuck they're getting those figures, actually.
06:59:30 <pikhq> Is CA income tax *super* progressive or something?
06:59:43 <pikhq> I know its top marginal rate is highest in the country...
07:00:25 <shachaf> It seems relatively high even at lower brackets, https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#income-tax
07:01:13 <shachaf> whoa, CA is way down there in your graph
07:01:31 <pikhq> Oh, that graph is using the interesting assumption that it's trying to measure effective income tax rate for a person with $54,286 annual income.
07:02:40 <pikhq> For a married couple filing jointly that would give a marginal rate of 4%.
07:03:00 <pikhq> (and 9.3% for a single filer)
07:04:01 <shachaf> But only a few thousand dollars would be at that rate.
07:04:37 <shachaf> filing jointly has been permitted since prop 64 was passed
07:05:13 <pikhq> Seems like as though other states have remarkably less progressive marginal tax schemes, where they have income taxation.
07:06:34 <pikhq> I find it rather ridiculous the US charges income taxes on world-wide income...
07:08:43 <shachaf> Ugh, figuring out my taxes is scow.
07:09:40 <shachaf> Maybe I'll wait until Oct 14
07:11:53 <shachaf> pikhq: Why is WA sales tax so much higher in that graph than CA sales tax?
07:13:28 <shachaf> Why does CA tax dividends and capital gains at the same rate as regular income?
07:17:41 <pikhq> CA does not tax automobile sales at the full sales tax rate, WA does.
07:17:51 <pikhq> I suspect that does it.
07:19:20 <pikhq> There's another big one. The *effective* sales tax rate in WA is higher on average because every county and municipality in WA adds a sales tax.
07:19:25 <pikhq> While in CA only some do.
07:19:31 <pikhq> Such as... the entire Bay Area.
07:21:49 <shachaf> The orange bar in WA is just so much bigger.
07:22:09 <pikhq> I have a suspicion some of the source data is suspect.
07:22:22 <pikhq> Because something's not quite adding up.
07:22:27 <shachaf> it's automatically suspect by the fact that you have a suspicion hth
07:23:22 <pikhq> But, yeah. I can believe effective sales tax rate is generally larger in WA, but I'm not sure where it's getting that effective sales + income tax is larger in WA than CA.
07:23:54 <pikhq> Unless there's, like, substantially more exemptions to sales taxes on generally-needed goods in CA than in WA?
07:24:27 <pikhq> But WA isn't one of the states that taxes groceries, so...
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12:58:37 <fizzie> Finally made that wiki-2-irc gateway autostart with a systemd thing: http://sprunge.us/IfbX
12:58:43 <fizzie> Let me know if it no longer works.
12:58:45 <fizzie> Which is quite possible.
13:20:03 <int-e> that setup looks a bit more fun than the lambdabot one (which is just socat + lambdabot, inside a screen)
13:20:49 <int-e> and one line (su - lambda run/setup-screen-session) in rc.local to get it off ground on reboots
13:23:14 <fizzie> int-e: The setup was: http://sprunge.us/UdVK
13:23:24 <fizzie> Should probably be an "exec" in front of the chroot.
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16:00:13 <zzo38> The book I have it describe "dynamic dictionary" compression schemes, which is a kind of generalization of LZW it look like. The normal LZW algorithm will be FC-FREEZE, although there are other possibilities. Wikipedia describes variants such as LZMW (ID-FREEZE), and "Miller and Wegman also suggest deleting low frequency entries from the dictionary when the dictionary fills up" (this is ID-LFU).
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18:59:44 <fizzie> Seen from the bus window: a shop selling "fast internet cartridges" -- https://zem.fi/tmp/internet_cartridge.jpg
18:59:53 <fizzie> You can also get an access refill.
19:10:53 <Taneb> Sounds like just what I need
19:14:36 <zzo38> Now my PNG encoder program has possibility to copy safe chunks from another PNG file, and also has possibility to specify gamma setting (which adds a "gAMA" chunk, and does not alter the contents of the picture).
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23:46:18 <zzo38> What functions do you think I should add into my collection of programs to deal with pictures?
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00:34:29 <LKoen> zzo38: a classifying neural network of course
00:34:33 <LKoen> they're all the rage this year
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00:40:15 <zzo38> I am not sure how to do.
00:41:27 <zzo38> Do you like relative-location-bar?
00:46:20 <shachaf> I don't know what relative-location-bar is, so I'm afraid I can't answer.
00:47:21 <zzo38> It mean in the web browser that you can type in the relative URL to navigate to, instead of absolute (you can still type in a absolute URL if you type all of the necessary parts).
00:48:27 <shachaf> That seems incompatible with the thing where anything that isn't an absolute URL turns into a search engine query.
00:49:43 <zzo38> I do sometimes use such queries too, but I put in a different way to do that. If you put a colon and then the search engine keyword at the beginning, then it is a search engine query for the search engine specified by the keyword. So I do have that.
00:51:01 <shachaf> But I just use Google Search in almost all cases.
00:51:10 <shachaf> In other cases I type the keyword followed by a space.
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00:52:20 <zzo38> What I actually implemented is that if it starts with a colon, it will just omit the colon and handle the rest using the normal location-bar handler, although I do not normally use that feature.
00:57:09 <zzo38> (I only use it to enter a keyword to select a search engine, and otherwise use the relative location bar.)
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02:50:06 * oerjan somehow finds today's mezzacotta funnier than those two characters usually are.
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04:46:10 <zzo38> It was a power outage.
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06:25:46 <HackEgo> 1/2:rtf//RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. \ pawn//*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA* \ phantom__________hoover//OK you got me there. \ banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". \ steam sale//A steam sale is when money i
06:26:11 <HackEgo> 2/2:s heated to such high temperatures it evaporates and then condenses into games you will never play.
06:26:36 <HackEgo> *YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA*
06:27:16 <HackEgo> 1/2:the question//The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master. \ golf//Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. \ metar//metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather. \ vaarsuviu//Vaarsuvius is female. The Word of God
06:27:19 <HackEgo> 2/2: about that is right at http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq10 , right above where he tells the comic updates three times a week (twice a week according to the TOC). \ chicken//Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them.
06:28:17 <HackEgo> b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs
06:28:44 <shachaf> @ask boily do you like chicken-of-the-woods
06:31:14 <HackEgo> 1/2:204) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] reyouthismootherate [...] \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 944) <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think <ais523> some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists \ 775) <fu
06:31:17 <HackEgo> 2/2:ngot> olsner: over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax \ 1114) <Phantom_Hoover> i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier
06:32:52 <oerjan> `learn Foil is a material that provides protection against evil, such as mind control rays. To protect the world many heroes spend a lot of their time foiling villains.
06:32:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'foil': Foil is a material that provides protection against evil, such as mind control rays. To protect the world many heroes spend a lot of their time foiling villains.
06:37:19 <alercah> `le/rn try and/"try and" is the worst part of the English language
06:37:20 <HackEgo> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
06:37:30 <alercah> `le/rn try and//"try and" is the worst part of the English language
06:37:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'try and': "try and" is the worst part of the English language
06:37:45 <shachaf> alercah: p. sure there's worse parts of English hth
06:37:56 <shachaf> for example: the phrase "the English language"
06:37:59 <shachaf> what's that supposed to mean?
06:38:07 <shachaf> is "English" an adjective or what?
06:38:23 <shachaf> i'm going to try and avoid that phrasing
06:39:38 <shachaf> `le//rn try and//"try and" is the bane of prescriptivists.
06:39:40 <HackEgo> Relearned 'try and': "try and" is the bane of prescriptivists.
06:47:15 <HackEgo> [U+0020 SPACE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+20DB COMBINING THREE DOTS ABOVE]
06:47:51 <HackEgo> U+1F451 CROWN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 91 UTF-16BE: d83ddc51 Decimal: 👑 \ 👑 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
06:48:17 <shachaf> why have i been using puny [U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS] when i could have been using [U+20DB COMBINING THREE DOTS ABOVE]
06:48:29 <shachaf> people have accused me of being the new yorker recently
06:48:48 <shachaf> but just wait until they see this coo⃛rdinated assault on their sensibilities
06:49:16 <oerjan> assuming their fonts will show it. mine doesn't.
06:50:34 <oerjan> it may be somewhat due to putty not supporting more than one at a time.
06:50:57 <shachaf> you're clearly uncoo⃛perative in this matter
06:53:29 <HackEgo> [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+20DC COMBINING FOUR DOTS ABOVE]
06:54:18 <shachaf> oerjan: you're missing some p. good combining characters
06:54:27 <alercah> shachaf: you realize it was hyperbole, yes?
06:54:37 <shachaf> Do you have COMBINING SEAGULL BELO̼W?
06:55:06 <shachaf> alercah: My opinion: There's absolutely nothing wrong with "try and".
06:55:09 <zzo38> Next they will need the COMBINING FORTY-TWO DOTS ABOVE
06:55:18 <alercah> shachaf: which makes it all the better
06:55:25 <shachaf> It sounds natural to my fluent English-speaking ear.
06:55:31 <alercah> zzo38: presumably COMBINING FIVE DOTS ABOVE would be next
06:55:35 <alercah> shachaf: it sounds unnatural to mine hth
06:55:53 <alercah> not sure how my ear that doesn't speak English feels
06:56:08 <shachaf> I bet your ear just listens.
06:56:15 <zzo38> Yes, but I mean after they doo all of the more next and next and next next next next and so on
06:57:48 <shachaf> COMBINING TRIPLE UNDERDO⃨T, COMBINING WIDE BRIDGE ABO⃩VE
06:59:35 <zzo38> Do you have COMBINING QUESTION MARK WITH WINGS?
07:00:29 <shachaf> My font doesn't have all of these.
07:00:31 <shachaf> COMBINING WIGGLY LINE BELOW
07:01:15 <shachaf> good thing unicode has both COMBINING MACRON-ACUTE and COMBINING ACUTE-MACRON
07:01:25 <shachaf> and COMBINING GRAVE-ACUTE-GRAVE and COMBINING ACUTE-GRAVE-ACUTE
07:01:42 <shachaf> This is like _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead_
07:02:07 <shachaf> "We're more of the love, blood and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see."
07:02:38 <oerjan> <shachaf> It sounds natural to my fluent English-speaking ear. <-- funny thing, the corresponding phrases in norwegian are homophones. although that doesn't help people get the right one when spelling.
07:02:39 <shachaf> COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER K
07:03:24 <shachaf> Why is there a combining version of a bunch of the latin small alphabet?
07:03:31 <shachaf> COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
07:03:49 <oerjan> prøve å feile: try to fail. prøve og feile: try and fail (or idiomatically, trial and error)
07:05:00 <shachaf> By the way, English may or may not have been the first language I spoke, but I have an obvious accent in it.
07:05:17 <shachaf> My ear, on the other hand, has no accent.
07:05:35 <oerjan> <shachaf> and COMBINING GRAVE-ACUTE-GRAVE and COMBINING ACUTE-GRAVE-ACUTE <-- but does it have COMBINING GLAIVE-GUISARME-GLAIVE ?
07:08:25 <shachaf> 20EC COMBINING RIGHTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWNWARDS [⃬]
07:08:58 <shachaf> My font seems to be rendering those backwards.
07:09:23 <shachaf> Yes, my font has it backwards from http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20ec/index.htm
07:09:58 <shachaf> do you have those in your font twh
07:11:46 <HackEgo> [U+2189 VULGAR FRACTION ZERO THIRDS]
07:11:58 <HackEgo> [U+217A SMALL ROMAN NUMERAL ELEVEN]
07:13:06 <oerjan> so many rectangles. now shave ->
07:15:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52014&oldid=51940 * Zzo38 * (+1)
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07:23:56 <HackEgo> 1/2:dark water//Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination. \ bee//What if bees were made of smaller bees? What if bees were made out of BIGGER bees? \ future//We know nothing about the future. \ termite//Termites are genericized ants for intellectual property reason
07:23:59 <HackEgo> 2/2:s. \ delaware//Delaware is a US state in which everybody speaks German.
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14:45:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52015&oldid=51640 * L3viathan * (-4)
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18:39:13 <HackEgo> hax0r//hax0r (see ¯\(°_o)/¯)
18:39:17 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 1d 17h 56m 33s ago: what does `? primative mean?
18:39:17 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 12h 10m 32s ago: do you like chicken-of-the-woods
18:39:28 <HackEgo> A primative is a reference to a value that you were robbed of.
18:40:15 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. good question. I think there's an horrible pun in there, but I'm not willing to accept having punned.
18:40:45 <boily> shachaf: helloochaf. maybe? I don't think I knowingly ever tasted it.
18:42:07 <shachaf> Have yuou ever knowingly tasted RELATIVE CHICKEN, BLAST CHICKEN, or HILL CHICKEN?
18:42:16 <shachaf> You can like things without tasting them.
18:43:23 <boily> me neither. but if there is, I won't admit it.
18:43:50 <boily> to which extent can one know a chicken?
18:44:10 <boily> I like trains, and I don't plan on ever tasting one.
18:45:00 <shachaf> I would probably taste chicken-of-the-woods given the ooprtunity.
18:45:56 <shachaf> But not a chicken-of-the-phasianidae-family.
19:05:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:cloud//The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds. \ ism//Isms are philosophies, religions or ideologies that have branched off from older ones, such as Leninism or Buddhism. Etymologically "ism" is a backformation from portmante
19:05:06 <HackEgo> 2/2:aus on "schism". \ phantom___hoover//Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. \ elliott//elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur.
19:06:18 <HackEgo> Cubes come in all sizes, colors, and materials, but only one shape. The companion cube does not speak, however.
19:06:38 <HackEgo> 8928:2016-08-17 <shachäf> slwd cube//s#rs#rs,# \ 7100:2016-03-05 <int-̈e> learn_append cube The companion cube does not speak, however. \ 5888:2015-08-06 <oerjän> learn Cubes come in all sizes, colors and materials, but only one shape.
19:06:49 <shachaf> int-e: Can we do something about that second sentence?
19:07:11 <shachaf> I like the austerity of the first sentence on its own.
19:08:22 <HackEgo> 1/2:ybden//ybden daintily hides in her den, fostering dark machinations on warfare cutlery. \ second wisdom//The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent. \ hydrocomputer//Hydrocomputing is the field of computer programming which studies the computational power of water. \ `revert//`revert <rev>" can be used to rev
19:08:24 <HackEgo> 2/2:ert to a revision. See <http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/>. It is a builtin command so cannot be called from other commands. \ w//A w is everything a cow isn't.
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19:27:02 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
19:27:14 <boily> fo' rizzle ma shizzle!
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20:22:09 <int-e> shachaf: I don't care.
20:22:40 <int-e> The main inspiration was that Portal has a bonus level (based on the one with the companion cube) in which the companion cube is actually a sphere.
20:23:51 <int-e> Thus questioning the "only one shape" claim.
20:25:01 <shachaf> I think it's a moderately good humor now, but I still think the entry is cleaner without it.
20:25:26 <int-e> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Portal_(game)#Test_Chamber_17
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21:18:03 <HackEgo> 1/1:Ortugg \ Bib Fortuna \ Watto \ Jocasta Nu \ Poe Dameron
21:19:19 <HackEgo> 1294) <hppavilion[1]> I have just learned about "SMASH FACE ON KEYBOARD; POST RESULTS". --- quit: hppavilion[1] (Quit: Leaving) --- join: hppavilion[1] [...] joined #esoteric <hppavilion[1]> ...that was the result, apparently <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, f4
21:19:32 <HackEgo> 1208) <oerjan> or to put it weirder, a continuation is the same as an expression zipper.
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21:27:26 <HackEgo> bin/paste \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/pastekarma \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastelogs \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/pastewisdom
21:27:46 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
21:57:43 <zzo38> I wrote this document (including example) http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-chess Do you think this example is reasonably OK?
21:59:04 <boily> hezzo38. very compact.
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22:49:21 <zzo38> I think UNIX philosophy is best kind of way making computer program, to make each program doing one thing well, make every program a filter, avoiding captive user interface, etc
22:52:30 <shachaf> It filters the filesystem and produces a list of files.
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22:53:27 <shachaf> It filters its command-line arguments into some system calls like getdents(), and then filters the results into stdout.
22:53:49 <zzo38> It does not take input (it does not need to), but otherwise is like that. Of course some program can't filter but usually is best way. AmigaMML is a filter; takes a text from stdin and make .MOD/.XM to stdout (and it currently ignores all command-line arguments); playmod is also filter with .MOD/.XM from stdin and then the audio data on stdout, and then use another program such as aplay to makethe music audible please.
22:54:26 <shachaf> zzo38: What do you do when the computer program is an interactive computer game like Potion of Confusing?
22:55:27 <zzo38> Of course there are interactive computer games and so on, but you should avoid it when the program does not need to be interactive.
22:55:53 <shachaf> What if your program is a long-running web server or Gopher server?
22:56:37 <zzo38> Some programs will of course do interactive, but for example a program to reverse the input does not need to be interactive, is better as a filter. As filter should be preferred if possible in most cases.
22:57:11 <shachaf> A program to reverse the input can also be implemented as a shared object file.
22:57:15 <zzo38> For a server, of course that is different too, but it is a server. Still it might use such as with xinetd and then call another program which is act like a filter
22:57:36 <shachaf> It could be implemented as an HTTP service.
22:57:45 <shachaf> Or maybe another RPC system.
22:57:51 <shachaf> Is there an RPC system using Gopher?
22:58:02 <zzo38> It can be implemented as a shared object file, but each program should be separate and to do one thing.
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22:58:40 <zzo38> I doubt either HTTP or Gopher are really that good for RPC systems though
22:58:53 <shachaf> What's good for RPC systems?
23:13:01 <zzo38> O, Lode Vandevenne contributed to Zopfli.
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23:15:13 <zzo38> What are what things?
23:18:13 <zzo38> Lode Vandevenne is a person (who also invented LodePNG) and Zopfli is a compression program
23:18:50 <zzo38> MEgablin: Do you know how to write English please?
23:19:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.ru: not found
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23:47:11 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 6m 55s ago: hellørjan. good question. I think there's an horrible pun in there, but I'm not willing to accept having punned.
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00:19:59 <HackEgo> nightstar//The Nightstars are an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
00:20:45 <HackEgo> 1/2:endofunctor//Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. \ the neverending work//The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time. \ ant//Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways. \ pdf//PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format
00:21:14 <boily> the only sky glow in the night I believe in is the one from the Olympic Stadium. the moon looks 'shopped.
00:22:03 <HackEgo> 10483:2017-03-21 <oerjän> slwd nightstar//s/is/are/ \ 10472:2017-03-21 <Jafët> le/rn nightstar//The Nightstars is an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
00:22:11 <boily> lately, it's mainly forgotten entries I'm forgetting to forget hth
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00:44:15 <HackEgo> opposite//Eht etisoppo yrogetac fo a yrogetac si tsuj taht yrogetac, tub sdrawkcab.
00:44:39 <HackEgo> extreme ironing//Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
00:45:24 * oerjan is wondering if he's missing a pun in `? ant
00:47:02 <oerjan> also wondering if i've been told before.
00:47:23 <HackEgo> 6136:2015-10-25 <int-̈e> learn Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways. \ 5821:2015-07-10 <int-̈e> rm wisdom/ant \ 5237:2015-01-18 <int-̈e> learn ants are animals too hth
00:47:39 <oerjan> hm what's Ant in german.
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00:49:31 <oerjan> hm apparently ant highway is simply a term that is used.
00:50:04 <oerjan> and is in w:Langton's Ant
00:51:06 * Taneb is missing an `? ant
00:51:07 <HackEgo> Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways.
00:51:45 <oerjan> Taneb: it was a `4 w, technically.
00:51:48 <shachaf> Taneb: It was 31 minutes ago.
00:52:08 <Taneb> shachaf, I don't necessarily pay attention
00:53:32 <Taneb> Yeah, I'd presume that that'd be talking about Langton's Ant and variations thereon
00:54:45 <Taneb> Also I realised that in my head I pronounce "`?" as a sort of confused look
00:56:28 <shachaf> oerjan: maybe http://www.npr.org/2015/01/19/377743242/why-ants-handle-traffic-better-than-you-do hth
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02:29:55 <oerjan> fungot: that's an interesting choice.
02:33:06 <fungot> boily: neither the hypertext nor the preprocessor part. turkey meat is definitely white vs. dark, though.)
02:33:13 <boily> fungot: nostril agian.
02:33:13 <fungot> boily: i love the way mit always cleans up in those geeky sports anyway?
02:33:25 <boily> oerjan: looks like the 'got got stuck hth
02:35:29 * boily invokes the nostril of the fungot
02:35:29 <fungot> boily: maybe they've fnord their pcs to look better)
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04:57:39 <zzo38> I made the sed program to parse FEN into the form used by ff-text.
04:57:53 <zzo38> The program is: s.7.43.g;s.6.33.g;s.5.32.g;s.4.22.g;s.3.21.g;s.2.11.g;s./. .g
04:59:46 <zzo38> (There is no need to convert a "8" because it is assumed to be transparent.)
05:05:47 <zzo38> I wrote this code for converting a DEFLATE backreference distance into the symbol needed to encode that distance: static inline int distance_symbol(int y) { int z=16&~__builtin_clz(--y?:1); return y<4?y:(z<<1)|((y>>(z-1))&1); }
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05:09:13 <zzo38> (I don't know how the other programs do, because I have not looked.)
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05:45:37 <oerjan> `file bin/pastenquotes
05:45:39 <HackEgo> bin/pastenquotes: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
05:45:47 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ n=$1 \ if [ "$((n+0))" != "$n" ]; then n=15; fi \ allquotes | shuf -n $n | paste
05:52:40 <izabera> `pastenquotes a[`echo hi mom >&2`]
05:52:40 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/pastenquotes: 3: /hackenv/bin/pastenquotes: Illegal number: a[`echo hi mom >&2`]
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07:14:24 <lambdabot> ddarius says: * ddarius comes back and everyone is like ftw this and ftw that, and I'm wtf?
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08:21:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52016&oldid=51843 * Zzo38 * (+962) [[MMIX]]
08:22:35 <zzo38> Now I made a Deadfish implementation with MMIX. Do you like this?
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08:35:47 <oerjan> `fetch bin/distort https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/distort
08:35:52 <HackEgo> 2017-05-29 07:35:16 URL:https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/distort [346/346] -> "bin/distort" [1]
08:36:35 <HackEgo> 1/2:tetrapleur//tetrapleur is the new name of quadrilaterals. \ kulør//Kulør er rett stavemåte. \ agdq//AGDQ is Awesome Games Done Quick, an annual video games speedrunning event for charity every winter, see http://gamesdonequick.com and https://gamesdonequick.com/tracker/events/ \ perpetual motion machine//Perpetual motion machines came with F
08:36:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:reeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy. \ ü//ü is the ridiculously happy second derivative of the letter ‘u’ with respect to time.
08:37:22 <HackEgo> 1/3:itidus21//itidus21 just made some instant coffee, and did it again an instant later, and then again and again. where is all this coffee coming from? it has buried itidus21! where is itidus21? \ cccp//CCCP is a misspelling of СССР. \ `n//`n is an abbreviation for `spam. \ b_jonas can't spell//b_jonas can't spell these words: weird, hygiene,
08:37:34 <HackEgo> 2/3:etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; discrete, discreet.rdococ//rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks t
08:39:27 <HackEgo> 3/3:o boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. Additionally, almost all of his wisdom entries are bad.
08:39:44 <oerjan> seems to stop precisely at 350.
08:40:58 <HackEgo> 1/490:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warrigal> GKenneth
08:41:19 <HackEgo> 2/490:R: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. \ 5) <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 6) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 7) <SimonRC> TODO: sex life \ 8) <Madelon> Lil
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08:42:34 <HackEgo> 3/490:`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 9) <reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? \ 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you ca
08:46:31 <HackEgo> 12/490: repeatedly \ 37) <Deewiant> Reality isn't a part of physics \ 38) <Octalnet> oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. \ 39) <GregorR-L> If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... <GregorR-L> I'd call it jabbear. \ 40) <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 41) <ehird> no Deewiant <Dee
08:46:34 <HackEgo> 13/490:wiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> \ 42) <GregorR> ??? <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks? <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? \ 43) <apollo> Maternal instincts? <apollo> D
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08:57:45 <shachaf> oerjan: is that code doing the right thing
08:57:54 <shachaf> oerjan: it's unreadable so i'll just trust you hth
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08:59:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52017&oldid=52012 * Zzo38 * (+58)
09:05:24 <oerjan> hm actually that import math is unnecessary
09:08:20 <oerjan> `sled bin/distort//2s:, math::;8cmw = len(int(2*s/N))-1
09:08:22 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 350 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(int(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \ lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \ print data[p
09:08:33 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/distort", line 8, in <module> \ mw = len(int(2*s/N))-1 \ TypeError: object of type 'int' has no len() \ 1/0:
09:09:11 <oerjan> `sled bin/distort//s,int,str,
09:09:13 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 350 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \ lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \ prstr data[p
09:09:30 <HackEgo> File "/hackenv/bin/distort", line 14 \ prstr data[p:p+lw] \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax \ 1/0:
09:09:53 <oerjan> `sled bin/distort//8s,int,str,
09:09:55 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 350 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \ lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \ print data[p
09:10:01 <HackEgo> 1/490:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warrigal> GKenneth
09:10:06 <HackEgo> 12/490: repeatedly \ 37) <Deewiant> Reality isn't a part of physics \ 38) <Octalnet> oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. \ 39) <GregorR-L> If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... <GregorR-L> I'd call it jabbear. \ 40) <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 41) <ehird> no Deewiant <Dee
09:10:26 <oerjan> seems to work the same.
09:11:58 <HackEgo> 1/2:flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. \ human//Humans are constantly evolving, although not as fast as pokémons. \ california//California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A" \ string diagram//String diagrams would be useful in category theory, except they're unreadable due to being curled up in tiny dimensions. Taneb
09:12:00 <HackEgo> 2/2: invented them anyhow. \ mario//Mario is a classic PSPACE-complete problem invented by Nintendo.
09:12:12 <shachaf> Taneb: why did you do that tdnh
09:12:18 <oerjan> shachaf: it calculates the width of the last line number, by first underestimating and then checking if it's above the jump point given by the formula on line 9.
09:13:00 <oerjan> (because directly inverting the formula seemed tricky)
09:15:21 <oerjan> (that formula gives the maximum amount of characters that fit in 10**mw-1 lines)
09:16:37 <shachaf> oerjan: distort could pre-add the x/y: prefix
09:16:56 <shachaf> and then you could implement `spam n with grep ^n
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09:55:22 <oerjan> shachaf: but then spore wouldn't work.
09:56:19 <HackEgo> cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${1-1}"
09:57:46 <shachaf> Sure, but does anyone use spore?
09:58:03 <fizzie> Shouldn't've set up all these GRAPHS on esolangs.org, now I keep seeing weird things. For example, what's up with all the 301s: https://zem.fi/tmp/esolangs_301.png
09:58:05 <oerjan> `` cd bin; grep -r spore bin
09:58:07 <HackEgo> grep: bin: No such file or directory
09:58:26 <HackEgo> bin/sport:distort "${2:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${1-1}"
09:58:44 <shachaf> I can't think of much of a use for spore.
09:59:04 <shachaf> I guess there are some uses.
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10:00:37 <shachaf> What's with this naming scheme?
10:00:49 <oerjan> some maniac must have invented it.
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10:01:18 <shachaf> The whole thing was meant to tie into the "spam" theme.
10:01:25 <shachaf> But then we never use that command.
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13:11:11 <int-e> . o O ( this visdom entry is not supported by vampiric evidence )
13:12:16 <int-e> wob_jonas: but if that was a question, the idea was being invisible to reflection.
13:13:39 <HackEgo> Vampires are a wizarding myth Professor Lupin invented to make students hate Professor Snape even more, after Professor Snape almost made the students realize he's a werewolf.
13:15:08 <int-e> ambiguous "he", yay.
13:16:47 <int-e> Robot, hmm. Čapek, was it?
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13:17:09 <int-e> (Popularized by Asimov, of course.)
13:19:34 <int-e> Oh. According to http://www.npr.org/2011/04/22/135634400/science-diction-the-origin-of-the-word-robot it was partly a suggestion of Karel's brother.
13:20:06 <int-e> "Well, when Capek named these creatures, he first came up with a Latin word labori, for labor. But he worried that it sounded a little bit too bookish, and at the suggestion of his brother, Josef, Capek ultimately opted for roboti, or in English, robots."
13:20:37 <int-e> (Kind of funny how the Č is a C in that text... you'd think journalists would care about spelling...)
13:20:56 <wob_jonas> int-e: not the ones that write in English, no
13:21:33 <wob_jonas> ok really, not the other ones either these days
13:22:01 <wob_jonas> they just care about making as much clickbait as possible, and report stuff early regardless whether it's correct
13:22:43 <int-e> I guess the majority of the audience doesn't care either. Or, perhaps, even notice.
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16:56:50 <zzo38> Do you know any MMIX programming?
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19:24:51 <HackEgo> olist 1074: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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22:41:28 <HackEgo> physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English.
22:41:52 <HackEgo> 1/1:procrastination//The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube. \ danddreclist//http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available) \ nooga//no. \ sth//"sth" is short for "something that hibernates".
22:49:48 <boily> hellorkin. who's ochai?
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22:54:52 <erkin> お風呂にする？ご飯にする？それとも…お茶？
23:05:59 <boily> none of these. I shower in the morning, tonight is poutine, I haven't tead in a while...
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23:21:06 <boily> lesson of the day: berserking an hydra is a bad idea.
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23:23:51 <erkin> Especially if your main weapon is slashing.
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23:39:10 <boily> slashing is for wimps. I say crush your enemies into homogeneous pulp!
23:39:31 <boily> splice your molecules into the cosmic dirt they came from and the galactic horse they rode in!
23:40:36 <boily> annihilate their soul for the next three generations and curse their homeland! unleash endless hordes of pan-dimensional demons!
23:41:24 <boily> thoroughly clean them with eco-sensible laundry soap with lemon fragrance!
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01:58:56 <HackEgo> 1/2:mothology//Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths. \ tree//You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees. \ kayayaya//Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. \ octarine//Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named. \ all the single objects//All the single objects / went to form a class /
01:58:58 <HackEgo> 2/2: but then they got a unit test / which none of them did pass.
01:59:21 <shachaf> `learn A mother is a person who practices mothology.
01:59:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'mother': A mother is a person who practices mothology.
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02:38:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52018&oldid=51833 * Challenger5 * (+12)
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02:48:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Check]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52019 * Challenger5 * (+304) Created page with "Check is a language created in May of 2017 by [[User:Challenger5]]. It mixes one-dimensional and two-dimensional semantics. 1-D semantics are used for stack manipulation, and..."
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02:52:02 <HackEgo> 9996:2016-12-19 <tswetẗ_> le//rn tree//You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:55:29 <fizzie> Something called "SemrushBot" is crawling the wiki in a weird way, requesting all kinds of "Special%3AX" URLs, all of which just 301 to corresponding "Special:X".
02:55:53 <oerjan> those pages are bot excluded, are they not?
02:56:42 <oerjan> hm only a couple of them.
02:56:58 <fizzie> I don't know if MediaWiki sets some metadata, but our robots.txt excludes only some.
02:57:59 <fizzie> Judging from these logs, looks like it keeps asking for /wiki/Special%3ASomething, getting a redirect to /wiki/Special:Something, then URL-escaping it again and asking for the same /wiki/Special%3ASomething over and over again.
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02:58:43 <oerjan> hm which side is actually wrong on that?
02:59:20 <oerjan> `url Special:Something
02:59:21 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/Special%3ASomething
02:59:38 <fizzie> I'm not sure. I assume MediaWiki is doing it to make the URL field look pretty in browsers.
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03:42:13 <doesthiswork> that "encryption as a service" joke is still really funny
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06:30:58 <shachaf> sleffy: whoa whoa whoa, I met a person who knows you
06:31:09 <shachaf> Or apparently met you a couple of days ago.
06:32:52 <sleffy> shachaf, whoa really? Who?
06:33:34 * sleffy thinks back to a couple of days ago
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08:17:59 <HackEgo> 1/2:thought//. o O ( Why are they asking me what a thought is? ) \ mojibake//_ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌͨÌÌ´Í \ despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ arabic//.scihpylgoreiH sa drah sa ton hguoht ,troppus stnof ekam ot drah yrev si ta
08:18:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:ht egaugnal citimes lartnec a si cibarA \ med//med is a simple text editor for HackEgo.
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11:27:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52020&oldid=52005 * Timtomtoaster * (+22)
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11:33:49 <HackEgo> wat//ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው።
11:40:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52021&oldid=52020 * Timtomtoaster * (+6)
11:43:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52022&oldid=52021 * Timtomtoaster * (-65)
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18:16:19 <shachaf> sleffy: She said I should ask you to add me to some sort of Berkeley chet.
18:16:28 <shachaf> It wasn't quite clear to me what it was.
18:16:39 <sleffy> shachaf, the Code Self Study Slack channel
18:16:49 <sleffy> Not sure you'd get much out of it, but I pinged the organizer as she requested :P
18:16:59 <sleffy> It's a weekly meetup in Berkeley
18:19:58 <sleffy> shachaf, they go to cafes in Berkeley and work. Since I'd otherwise be coding at home, I like to head out and sit in a quiet room with other people, and occasionally evangelize Rust.
18:20:35 <hppavilion[9]> Hm, I'm tempted to add ASCII labels to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
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18:33:44 <izabera> like, writing 'A' near to 65?
18:38:03 <hppavilion[9]> izabera: So that people don't need to check against their ASCII table and such
18:38:28 <izabera> yeah that'd be too much FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WRITING IN BRAINFUCK
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19:20:22 <\oren\> AAAAAA fuck yuo, apple mail, why do my coworkers use you!
19:21:17 <\oren\> it replaced tabs in code my coworker sent me with no-break-spaces, and some quotes with moron quotes
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19:23:16 <\oren\> so now I get "unexpect char 0xC7" messejeds
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22:18:10 <HackEgo> Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named.
22:21:40 <\oren\> other interesting fact: the uucp command is still supposed to exist according to posiz
22:21:44 <\oren\> and it is supposed to accept a bang!delimeted!address like was used before the internet protocol
22:21:57 <HackEgo> 1/2:burma//Burma: Ask Bike \ brontosaurus//A brontosaurus is an ancient mythological creature. They were well known for having mapoles for teeth. \ cello//The high level structure of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/. \ boron//B
22:22:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: n`n: not found
22:22:12 <HackEgo> 2/2:oron (B) is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it. \ `3//`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone.
22:22:23 <shachaf> cello is breaking the rules of wisdom tdnh
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22:29:25 <fizzie> FidoNet still exists as well.
22:29:43 <shachaf> fizzie: Do you think all programs should have built-in HTTP servers?
22:39:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TEWELSWAC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52023&oldid=52022 * Timtomtoaster * (-311)
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23:12:09 <fizzie> shachaf: Maybe some of them could have a built-in gRPC server instead.
23:12:28 <shachaf> Aren't gRPC servers also HTTP servers?
23:13:23 <fizzie> I think that's a definition question. You can argue for 'no'.
23:13:40 <fizzie> They use the HTTP/2 framing, sure.
23:13:43 <shachaf> Anyway gRPC is pretty specialized.
23:14:10 <fizzie> There's a generic health-checking thing in it.
23:14:56 <fizzie> The /fungotz endpoint returns a line of babble.
23:14:56 <fungot> fizzie: windows has the fnord end
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23:21:00 <fizzie> shachaf: Oh, by the way -- I converged to some sort of a kludge for the Prometheus long-term storage, mostly because I really wanted to turn InfluxDB off.
23:21:15 <fizzie> It was using ~10-15% of CPU on the system I had it on even when it wasn't actually doing anything.
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23:30:13 <shachaf> fizzie: The context was 11:35 <shachaf> kmc: did you know freebsd (?) has a standard signal to ask a process to print out progress information, and a standard terminal keybinding to send it
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23:33:08 <hppavilion[duck]> I mean, if it isn't, I think I'm going to have a... whatever the word people use is.
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23:35:45 <shachaf> p. sure you aren't having one anyway
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23:40:41 <lambdabot> *** "embolism" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:40:41 <lambdabot> n 1: an insertion into a calendar [syn: {embolism},
23:40:41 <lambdabot> 2: occlusion of a blood vessel by an embolus (a loose clot or
23:42:02 <fizzie> shachaf: I think I saw that comment.
23:42:18 <fizzie> There's a bit of a convention of using SIGUSR1 for that.
23:42:22 <shachaf> Odd, you aren't in that channel.
23:42:30 <shachaf> I've probably talked about that before, though.
23:43:07 <fizzie> 2017-03-24 20:46:55 <shachaf> Did you know FreeBSD has a SIGINFO signal that you can send to programs like cp to get progress information?
23:43:09 <hppavilion[duck]> I have an idea for a language. It came to me when I was reading books. My school is making me read through macbeth
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23:43:53 <shachaf> invent a programming technique and call it macduff's device hth
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00:06:30 <shachaf> I remember your name but I don't remember from what.
00:06:41 <shachaf> Are you this person? http://nicholaschambers.weebly.com/about-me.html
00:06:57 <shachaf> That person "just finished the HTH Credential Program".
00:07:04 <shachaf> Is that a program run by oerjan?
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00:36:57 <HackEgo> esoteric//This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
00:37:31 <HackEgo> 1/2:birmingham//Birmingham is a city in England. We're planning to turn it into a floating island so ais523 can get around a bit more. \ 323//323 is a quine in McCulloch's first machine. \ pronounceable c//int main open paren close paren open curly printeff open paren double quote pronounceable capital c is the most verbose esoteric language ever c
00:37:35 <HackEgo> 2/2:omma god help you if you try to code with it comma especially without newlines period double quote close paren semicolon close curly \ united states//See America.
00:37:46 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice.
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01:03:53 <Marcela_Gandara1> Hola, linda noche, como estan?, :-( tengo una impresora HP Deskjet 1000 y no imprime, es nueva y ps mi compu es Canaima Linux, me ayudan??
01:12:28 <boily> hola! estoy bien aquí :)
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01:12:40 <shachaf> `bienvenido Marcela_Gandara1
01:12:41 <HackEgo> Marcela_Gandara1: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
01:13:37 <boily> Marcela_Gandara1: no me gusta las impresoras, y el sentimiento está recíproca.
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01:38:20 <boily> doesthiswork: quite a few?
01:42:43 <doesthiswork> oh, the mode changed. I had spent weeks on learning spanish for the possibility that it might be needed on IRC
01:58:42 <boily> all languages are needed, esoteric ones even moreso.
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11:22:33 <HackEgo> 701) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
11:22:33 <HackEgo> metronome//A metronome is an ancient and highly sophisticated instrument typically used in the player variety in conjunction with another, simpler instrument. hppavilion[1] is learning to play one. Taneb invented parts of it at regular intervals.
11:27:49 <wob_jonas> "spectre" is an alternate spelling for "specter", and "scepter" is an alternate spelling for "sceptre". I hadn't realized that both of those have two spellings.
11:27:57 <wob_jonas> apparently it's like "meter" vs "metre"
11:29:07 <HackEgo> 10//10 = 10 in every base.
11:29:21 <HackEgo> molum//molum is the inverse function of ybden.
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12:17:32 * Taneb applies to be a student volunteer at ICFP
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13:19:47 <wob_jonas> ``` for x in s{pec,cep}t{er,re}; do \? "$x"; done
13:19:50 <HackEgo> specter? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ spectre? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ scepter? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ sceptre? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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13:22:21 <wob_jonas> ``` for x in {me,li}t{er,re}; do \? "$x"; done
13:22:23 <HackEgo> meter? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ metre? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ liter? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ litre? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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15:12:11 <\oren\> good mroing! time for a nice cup of covfefe
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16:01:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iqbigbang * New user account
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17:53:02 <\oren\> covfefe for word of the year!
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18:36:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MD XF * New user account
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18:52:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52024&oldid=51951 * MD XF * (+301) MD XF
18:52:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Decimal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52025 * MD XF * (+4376) Decimal, also called 09D, is an esoteric stack-based programming language that uses the characters 0 through 9 and D.
18:52:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Decimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52026&oldid=52025 * MD XF * (-13)
18:54:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Decimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52027&oldid=52026 * MD XF * (+16) Fix bad MediaWiki
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19:05:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52028&oldid=51939 * MD XF * (+123)
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19:30:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Decimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52029&oldid=52027 * Oerjan * (+54) Use wikitable class
19:30:35 <oerjan> hum, now he _must_ think i'm stalking him :P
19:32:23 <int-e> I mean *we* know it's nothing personal, it's just that those are the latest edits to the wiki.
19:33:42 <oerjan> it's just that i've been responding a lot to em on PPCG too
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19:52:34 <oerjan> programming puzzles and code games
19:55:58 <MDude> Power Puff Crimefighting Girls
20:16:43 <int-e> it's funny that Seffie thinks the Master is killing himself
20:23:50 <oerjan> argh i haven't gotten to today's GG yet
20:24:07 <oerjan> too many things to catch up to
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20:37:08 <zzo38> I thought of idea, if you have three kind of commands: left, right, increment and jump if prime.
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20:39:56 <int-e> what happens if you run out of instructions?
20:41:34 <int-e> (if that causes the program to stop, this sounds like it has a decidable halting problem because we have gaps of arbitrarily big length between consecutive primes)
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21:11:01 <zzo38> Yes, there could also be uncondition jump instruction too, or alternatively to make looping from beginning, or make something different to improve it.
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22:40:23 <HackEgo> The high level structure of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.
22:40:44 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
22:41:33 <oerjan> `` cat -v wisdom/cello
22:41:34 <HackEgo> ^C4The ^C7high ^C8level ^C9structure ^C2of ^C13Cello ^C6projects ^C4is ^C7inspired ^C8by ^C9/Haskell/, ^C2while ^C13the ^C6syntax ^C4and ^C7semantics ^C8are ^C9inspired ^C2by ^C13/Python/ ^C6and ^C4/Obj-C/.
22:41:54 <oerjan> `` grep ' $' wisdom/cello
22:41:57 <int-e> . o O ( the rules of wisdom should be understandable without the lookup key )
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22:42:29 <oerjan> int-e: you realize that it breaks every single of its own rules, right?
22:42:35 <int-e> so glad I have colors switched off.
22:42:40 <int-e> oerjan: we've had this discussion
22:43:03 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't understand how `? cello breaks the rules twh
22:43:35 <int-e> oerjan: but I just realized that the key, technically, doesn't really help either, thanks to the ambiguity power of "they".
22:43:36 <shachaf> I think it breaks my proposed rule that wisdom entries leave formatting normal.
22:44:11 <shachaf> I'm not sure what you're replying to but that's probably what I had in mind.
22:44:27 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s, they,,
22:44:30 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor, should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
22:45:15 <doesthiswork> lil yachty says that his girlfriend blows the cello
22:45:16 <int-e> oerjan: did you mean , they, it,?
22:45:40 <oerjan> int-e: i changed so that it is now more understandable with the key hth
22:46:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:helloily//helloily is hella oily hth \ helloily//helloily is hella oily hth \ `hello//`hello prints variants of hello, world. To control format, pass a single letter as command-line argument. "@"=>"hello, world", "H"=>"hello, world.", P=>"hello, world!", "X"=>"hello, world,", take 1 letter later to s/h/H/, 2 letter later to s/d,/d/, 4 letter la
22:46:09 <HackEgo> 2/2:ter to s/w/W/, lowercase to remove newline. \ porthello//Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner. \ helloily//helloily is hella oily hth
22:46:24 <shachaf> this channel is too obsessed with the word "hello"
22:46:28 <HackEgo> cello//The high level structure of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.
22:46:43 <oerjan> shachaf: it's just for the hellof it
22:48:07 <int-e> `slwd rules of wisdom//s,',‘,
22:48:09 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry‘s humor, should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
22:49:32 <doesthiswork> I think the rules of wisdom would sound more profound in OSV word order
22:49:33 <shachaf> int-e: but it was already not "using proper puncutation"
22:49:42 <shachaf> and this change does not reflect the way the rules are usually violated
22:49:48 <shachaf> imo this may be going overboard tdnh
22:52:06 <int-e> this must not happen?
22:52:23 <oerjan> this manatee needs help
22:52:47 <int-e> thousands meanings none helpful
22:54:11 <int-e> too much nonsense hth
22:55:47 <Taneb> Why is Cello in colour
22:56:09 <oerjan> i'm assuming it's a colourful language
22:56:42 <Taneb> I've heard colourful language is frowned upon in polite society
22:57:05 <int-e> is it a colorful hello?
22:57:46 <shachaf> Taneb: What would you call a paper that makes an analogy from some technical thing to a different thing, and then uses many words from the latter to describe the former?
22:57:53 <HackEgo> 10976:2017-05-31 <oerjän> slwd cello//s,$,\x0f, \ 10798:2017-04-22 <oerjän> slwd cello//s,stu,stru, \ 3511:2013-08-28 <oerjän> tail -1 wisdom/cello > q; mv q wisdom/cello \ 2879:2013-05-07 <Jafët> echo \'The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.\'
22:57:57 <shachaf> I considered calling it "colorful language" but I think that has the wrong implication.
22:58:08 <shachaf> And so does "suggestive language" maybe.
22:58:10 <shachaf> Is it "evocative language"?
22:59:27 <HackEgo> 2/2:/.\' | rainwords > wisdom/cello
22:59:39 <Taneb> shachaf, I would call such a paper an explanation by way of analogy
22:59:41 <shachaf> oerjan: please invent a command which does splitting on the first space and then running, the way ` does, twh
22:59:48 <Taneb> Unsure if there's a more succinct way of putting that
22:59:54 <shachaf> Taneb: But what would you call the language?
23:00:01 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/nur: line 1: like: command not found
23:00:26 <shachaf> Taneb: i thought you were a poet tdnh
23:00:44 <HackEgo> 10543:2017-03-30 <oerjän> mkx bin/nur//"${1%% *}" "${1#* }"
23:01:04 <Taneb> shachaf, could be an extended simile
23:01:50 <shachaf> Taneb: anyway the paper i'm thinking of is _Exploiting Regularities in Large Cellular Automata_ by Gosper
23:01:54 <shachaf> https://www.lri.fr/~filliatr/m1/gol/gosper-84.pdf
23:02:01 <shachaf> read it for yourself and then describe it hth
23:02:39 <shachaf> it uses words like "excavate", "scoop", "stratum", "slope", "deeper", "frustum"
23:03:57 <lambdabot> *** "frustum" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:03:57 <lambdabot> n 1: a truncated cone or pyramid; the part that is left when a
23:03:57 <lambdabot> cone or pyramid is cut by a plane parallel to the base and
23:07:18 <int-e> "experimental proof" <--- aaaaaargh.
23:07:59 <lambdabot> *** "proof" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:07:59 <lambdabot> adj 1: (used in combination or as a suffix) able to withstand;
23:07:59 <lambdabot> "temptation-proof"; "childproof locks"
23:07:59 <lambdabot> n 1: any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of
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23:27:49 <oerjan> too much ppcg. too much agora, etc. hard to catch up.
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23:29:45 <oerjan> it's https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/ hth
23:29:49 <Taneb> Pitch perfect card games
23:30:23 <oerjan> int-e: i think you're confusing seffie with colette. also hear breakthrough as a spark seems to be coming about as expected.
23:31:20 <boily> I'm glad that filler-filled battle is somewhat over. to see a spark sparking is much more interesting imho.
23:33:18 <oerjan> or possibly classic guitar
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