←2021-03 2021-04 2021-05→ ↑2021 ↑all
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00:25:52 <arcsor5> i am back
00:26:26 <NotApplicable> i just got back too
00:26:39 <NotApplicable> did i miss anything
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01:36:30 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81718&oldid=81711 * EnilKoder * (+225) added comment for unimplemented ideas
01:57:35 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * New user account
01:58:13 <arcsor5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
01:58:16 <arcsor5> oops wrong place
01:58:20 <arcsor5> nvm
02:02:02 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81719&oldid=81671 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+254)
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02:08:28 <esowiki> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81720&oldid=81467 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+91) Fixed a broken link in the "Contact him" section
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02:50:55 <esowiki> [[NoComment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81721&oldid=79111 * CaptainFoxtrot * (+97)
02:51:13 <esowiki> [[NoComment]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81722&oldid=81721 * CaptainFoxtrot * (+0)
03:11:02 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81723&oldid=81717 * Grom * (+195)
03:11:23 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81724&oldid=81723 * Grom * (+1)
03:14:17 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81725&oldid=81724 * Grom * (+1) /* Properties of the Master Function */
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03:42:19 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81726&oldid=81725 * Grom * (+108)
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04:15:13 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81727&oldid=81726 * Grom * (+378)
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07:46:37 <nakilon> annual 1 April AM contest starts in 6 hours https://codeforces.com/contests/1505
07:47:07 <nakilon> I'm lazy to participate there but it's usually in esoteric languages so you might be interested
07:47:32 <nakilon> *ACM
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11:12:45 <b_jonas> and SIGBOVIK 2021 conference starts in less than a day, with online video stream: http://sigbovik.org/2021/
11:21:50 <fizzie> Thanks, I would have missed it. It might not even be a ridiculous time to catch live.
12:39:59 <b_jonas> it's early in the morning I think... let me check
12:41:16 <b_jonas> ah no, it says "Starting at 6pm EDT on April 1, 2021", that's 2021-04-01 22:00Z
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12:41:35 <b_jonas> I thought it said "6pm PDT" for some reason
12:46:12 <arseniiv> oh, new SIGBOVIK! As if the previous was yesterday, time flies like an arrow
12:46:33 <arseniiv> damn covid
12:47:28 <arseniiv> oh, 22:00Z is pretty late for me to watch videos
12:48:08 <arseniiv> though anyway I mostly read the paper sum
12:50:20 <arseniiv> `thank b_jonas
12:50:22 <HackEso> thank? No such file or directory
12:50:33 <arseniiv> `thanks b_jonas
12:50:34 <HackEso> Thanks, b_jonas. Thonas.
12:50:49 <arseniiv> never gets old
12:57:35 <b_jonas> you can watch the video on the next day
13:53:49 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81728&oldid=81727 * Grom * (+129)
13:54:38 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81729&oldid=81728 * Grom * (-8) /* Evidence of viability */
14:00:27 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81730&oldid=81729 * Grom * (+9) /* Evidence of viability */
14:05:46 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81731&oldid=81730 * Grom * (+2) /* Formal Definition of and */
14:05:57 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81732&oldid=81731 * Grom * (-1) /* Formal Definition of and */
14:08:22 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81733&oldid=81732 * Grom * (+22) /* Formal Definition of and */
14:11:32 <nakilon> finally Ruby code goes vertical like Befunge: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/17768
14:14:03 <myname> tbh i like the basic idea
14:14:36 <myname> like, maybe not that exact syntax, but that would make mass assigns and similar more readable
14:16:15 <int-e> fungot: when will this tiresome day be over?
14:16:15 <fungot> int-e: " erik. on c, for example, it's true that in scheme
14:16:51 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81734&oldid=81733 * Grom * (+202) /* Formal Definition of and */
14:23:51 <fizzie> I should make that filter more permissive.
14:24:19 <fizzie> Nothing wrong with /* Formal Definition of 𝕄 and 𝔾 */ at least for this channel, we're very UTF-8 friendly.
14:30:17 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81735&oldid=81734 * Grom * (+174)
14:30:29 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81736&oldid=81735 * Grom * (+1) /* Evidence of viability */
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14:54:54 <drunken_lizard> Anyone have general advice for writing a Rockstar program that prints a specific message? In a totally mad and convoluted way, ofc
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16:02:41 <arseniiv> nakilon: :D
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16:49:54 <esowiki> [[No Literals, Gotos Only, Final Destination!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81737&oldid=60888 * Something Fawful * (+37) /* Official Implementation */ added... finally (took me long enough)
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16:51:42 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81738&oldid=81661 * Digital Hunter * (+232) /* ROT13 cipher */
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17:32:14 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81739&oldid=81736 * Grom * (+179) /* Evidence of viability */
17:33:51 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81740&oldid=81739 * Grom * (+0) /* Evidence of viability */
17:34:23 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81741&oldid=81740 * Grom * (-70) /* Evidence of viability */
17:34:31 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81742&oldid=81741 * Grom * (-1) /* Evidence of viability */
17:36:29 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81743&oldid=81738 * Digital Hunter * (+66) /* Commands and keywords */ important clarification to "succeed"
17:52:45 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81744&oldid=81742 * Grom * (+185) /* Evidence of viability */
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18:16:13 <esowiki> [[Intramodular Transaction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81745&oldid=74674 * Hakerh400 * (+601) Add TIO links
18:25:38 <nakilon> amazing how hard it is to find any decent public chat logs in Russian
18:26:23 <arseniiv> for neural stuff?
18:26:30 <nakilon> for learning stuff, ye
18:26:44 <nakilon> had to parse some buggy php forum with some chat and chat-archive plugins
18:27:11 <nakilon> broken bb codes, broken closing html tags, etc. -- got 73k pairs of message in the end
18:27:26 <arseniiv> oh
18:29:15 <nakilon> broken tags: https://i.imgur.com/gl4bWhf.png broken bb: https://i.imgur.com/WtX7OHN.png
18:30:00 <nakilon> actually I have some megabytes of IRC logs somewhere on backup HDD, but I thought it would be easier to get some from the internet than to find those
18:30:10 <nakilon> not sure in my decision
18:30:59 <arseniiv> I think I’m lacking in English words to console or sympathize
18:31:33 <arseniiv> yeah something it’s way quicker to search something out there than in a mess of a file system you created :D
18:33:50 <nakilon> and all it to make another talking bot for my empty channel
18:35:28 <nakilon> I made a KiwiIRC webpage that people can open it in a browser to leave me a message but from what they write it appeared that they are stupid enough to think that when they join my chat I have to respond to them immediately
18:36:32 <nakilon> like I'm 24/7 support manager
18:36:43 <nakilon> so I'll make the bot to autorespond ..D
18:37:01 <arseniiv> oh
18:37:30 <b_jonas> also a few megabytes is probably not enough
18:37:50 <b_jonas> but good luck analyzing IRC logs, they're terrible and often full of spam and hard to understand jargon
18:37:58 <nakilon> megabytes were good; 73k is probably not enough
18:38:07 <arseniiv> nakilon: wait, do you like Q&A for them or what? Or they just say hi and expect you to hi back immediately? :o
18:38:37 <nakilon> arseniiv some mix of predefined QA and generated responses I guess
18:40:07 <nakilon> b_jonas the hard thing is grammar errors people do (
18:40:24 <arseniiv> I’m too sad this ##math isn’t so esoteric, a couple of times I joined there it wasn’t very good for my questions, IIRC
18:40:33 <arseniiv> s/this/that
18:40:57 <nakilon> IIRC it wasn't helpful for me either
18:41:27 <nakilon> not that I can speak their language
18:41:33 <b_jonas> nakilon: that's what you get anywhere if you want instant low latency chat with people rather than carefully composed long form replies with hours of latency between users on a web forum. IRC just made sure we have that in writing, not just spoken in person and on telephone
18:41:40 <arseniiv> I wanted to ask something about rotating bunches of vectors here but remembered about ##math and now I’m mixed
18:42:12 <b_jonas> arseniiv: you can't easily make a good forum whose topic is just "math", because by default it gets flooded by boring math homework questions
18:42:21 <b_jonas> arseniiv: you can ask here about rotating bunches of vectors though
18:42:34 <nakilon> b_jonas for some reason average Russian chat text has 5-10 times more errors in the words that average English chat text
18:42:48 <arseniiv> chats are awesome, though one-line chats are a bit Procrustean
18:43:07 <nakilon> but the sentences are incorrect more often because of non-native speakers
18:43:16 <nakilon> *more often in English
18:43:19 <arseniiv> b_jonas: I know! I’m just have issues with myself spamming esoteric questions in #esoteric
18:44:08 <nakilon> one-line chat logs are easier to parse ..D
18:45:04 <nakilon> also private messaging logs are easier to build message pairs but they aren't shared publicly
18:46:14 <b_jonas> nakilon: did you really sample all the average English text chat and the average Russian text chat? there's so much of it, at least for English, most in places that I avoid, that I have no idea what the average is like
18:46:33 <arseniiv> now I wonder about Hungarian, Finnish and some other chats (do I have a poor memory on who is a native speaker of what)
18:46:51 <nakilon> b_jonas I can judge by current dialog and reddit that I read every day
18:47:06 <b_jonas> I don't know, I do very little chat in Hungarian. about one small community these days, plus some chat for dayjob
18:47:12 <nakilon> average Russian chats have mistakes in every 10th word
18:47:15 <b_jonas> nakilon: ah yes. I rarely watch reddit
18:47:27 <nakilon> Russian would write "vord" instead of "word" by 10% chance
18:47:34 <b_jonas> nakilon: do you have any guess why it has more mistakes?
18:47:55 <b_jonas> isn't it just that you select for the English chats that have less mistakes, but there are fewer choices for Russian chat?
18:48:22 <arseniiv> nakilon: reminded me how I misspelled “wave” as “vawe” many times
18:48:26 <b_jonas> I mean there's definitely a large spectrum for English too
18:48:29 <nakilon> I guess something about how the pronounciation and spelling correspond to each other
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18:48:44 <nakilon> but not sure
18:49:07 <b_jonas> I often see users on English and French chat that seem to type old style SMS speech that I find hard to read
18:49:27 <b_jonas> with abbreviations that are often cryptic to me
18:49:45 <nakilon> b_jonas I read not only IT subreddits, a lot is about games
18:52:05 <nakilon> also ~10% of native Russian speakers are Ukrainian citizens and it hurts to read them today after years of ukrainization and prohibition to learn and sometimes even speak Russian
18:53:08 <b_jonas> so? English chat has a lot of non-native speakers too, with often questionable command of English
18:53:26 <nakilon> it's often obvious that someone is from Ukraine and has never had even a single lesson of Russian and in result they don't know neither of two languages because they are forced to speak one language in school but use another one at home
18:53:55 <b_jonas> sure, that happens in many places
18:55:28 <b_jonas> and yes, sometimes you can guess what native language someone speaks. it's easier in spoken text, but still often possible in written
18:56:20 <b_jonas> I used to watch a game stream by someone speaking English with the second most egregious Hungarian accent that I've heard from people who regularly speak English
18:56:34 <b_jonas> the stream is still there, I'm just less interested
18:57:15 <nakilon> no one recognizes I'm Ukrainian though
18:58:45 <nakilon> you could even recognize Belorussian by a surname but Ukrainian and Russian surnames are more mixed
18:59:27 <b_jonas> sure, some people speak English so well that it's harder to tell
19:02:10 <nakilon> there are basically only two clues: 1) how I pronounce "шо" instead of "что" ("what") -- this is how you speak Russian in Eastern Ukraine, and 2) how I pronounce the sound "г" ("gh") that is so subtle that no one spots it unless tries to
19:02:35 <arseniiv> ah btw the question is interesting, though not mine. We have an euclidean space, say of dimension 3 (the original question is just about 3) and vectors v1, …, vN and w1, …, wN;
19:02:35 <arseniiv> we are interested in value of (v1 ⋅ R(w1)) … (vN ⋅ R(wN)) for an average rotation R, i. e. we want to integrate <product> dμ(R) with respect to a Haar measure μ on SO(3) which is 1 on all of SO(3);
19:02:35 <arseniiv> I’ve written various expressions involving 3D vector operations or quaternions (IIRC Haar measure on SO(3) corresponds to an usual euclidean-induced measure on S⁴, the sphere of unit quaternions,
19:02:35 <arseniiv> which cover SO(3) doubly but that’s of no pain for this integration) but no use, the integral for even N = 1 looks unapproachable;
19:02:35 <arseniiv> for N = 1 it should be 0 (pretty obvious), for N = 2 the asker gives an empirical result (v1 ⋅ v2) (w1 ⋅ w2), and for N = 3 they claim (v1 ⋅ (v2 × v3)) (w1 ⋅ (w2 × w3));
19:02:35 <arseniiv> ⋅ is the inner product and × is a cross product; and I think we can slap a fixed orientation to the euclidean space for less worrying, as we use only SO, not O
19:03:17 <b_jonas> nakilon: can your timezone be a clue too?
19:03:26 <nakilon> also when I speak to another Ukrainian (and we have some uplifted mood, maybe after a beer) we both start speaking with much more Ukrainian accent
19:04:17 <nakilon> b_jonas only one timezone in Ukraine ..D but you can timezone Russian citizen by his vocabulary similar to how you can differ far parts of US
19:04:58 <b_jonas> nakilon: exactly, but I mean your timezone might be a clue how someone tells that you're Ukranian
19:05:13 <nakilon> though while US pronounciation may differ from state to state it's much less different between parts of Russia even though it's bigger, idk why
19:06:39 <b_jonas> nakilon: dunno, that should depend on television and radio, but I don't know much about the history
19:07:06 <nakilon> maybe US was more influence by immigration?
19:07:14 <nakilon> *influenced
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19:12:45 <nakilon> "21:47:34 <b_jonas> nakilon: do you have any guess why it has more mistakes?" -- oh, maybe because mistakes aren't in roots actually but in suffixes -- you use them in Russian to change the meaning of the word while in English you rather change the order of words
19:13:07 <nakilon> s/actually/usually
19:17:11 <nakilon> for example, "server / on the server" is "сервер / на серверЕ"; my CTO always wrote "на серверИ" -- that was awful
19:23:57 <oerjan> серверИ doesn't seem to be a valid form according to wiktionary
19:24:44 <arseniiv> сервери is awful I agree
19:24:58 <nakilon> yep, absolutely invalid word, and it's a pretty common mistake to write И instead of Е in the end
19:25:10 <arseniiv> that’s even more eye-straining than “у бабушке”
19:25:54 <nakilon> к бабушки
19:27:42 <arseniiv> I’m glad I almost never see that
19:28:03 <nakilon> basically when someone can't learn own language he can't learn English and I believe if you can't English you very likely can't program
19:28:23 <nakilon> good that CTO don't code
19:28:38 <arseniiv> at least because good docs are in English yep
19:29:48 <arseniiv> my first major dive in English was because of Delphi 7 docs :D though that one was very shallow. Several years latter I started reading webfiction
19:31:37 <nakilon> yeah, those F1 Windows API and stdlib docs -- you was either learning from them or from nowhere
19:35:23 <nakilon> in ~1990 there were Russian books for Spectrum / BASIC, not much computer science in them but a decent start, and then the world has changed somehow; maybe because of Internet, idk
19:36:53 <nakilon> of course it's my point of view that is attached to my age
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19:49:28 <arseniiv> I think good physical books on programming and CS were pretty rare; I haven’t had one ever. Had plenty of somethings quickly becoming outdated and having not too much info, like a book on JS or a book about some interesting algorithms and data structures with Delphi code, but I wasn’t tempted to type all that code, and I think I had no internet these days so I couldn’t just download it. Ugh. So the book mostly sat on the shelf. Oh
19:49:28 <arseniiv> I was glad I now understood regexes were compilable into graphs nice to use, but anyway the presentation wasn’t the best (it always finished with a page or several of plain code), nor was the breadth, though what do I want from ~300 pages
19:52:02 <arseniiv> one needs thousands of pages and tinkering with hundreds of examples of various style to gain a versatile enough understanding, shame paper books aren’t good with this these times. A couple of topics, surely — but at least a decent slice of a discipline? noo
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19:54:18 <arseniiv> you can have a reference for a small language like Lua, and its compact standard library, but you won’t learn how to use a programming language as an instrument decently, only knowing its reference, unfortunately. You can have an elementary group theory, but no more. Something is not right in the universe :D
19:56:30 <arseniiv> though it’s well-known since long ago that human learning is pretty inefficient, of course, why do I reiterate that
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22:05:30 <fizzie> It's SIGBOVIK time, I guess. I see they've made the proceedings available already.
22:40:36 <b_jonas> oh drat, I missed some of it
22:40:51 <b_jonas> is there a schedule?
22:40:57 <b_jonas> to see what talks I missed
22:42:23 <zzo38> Well, there is the report, you could still read that
22:46:33 <fizzie> I didn't see a schedule of talks, but there was a keynote from tom7 on the paper Lowestcase and Uppestcase letters: Advances in Derp Learning, and then regular talks for: Stone Tools as Palaeolithic Central Unit Processors, and Macro-driven metalanguage for writing Pyramid Scheme programs, in addition to this ongoing bird thing.
22:46:59 <fizzie> They said for fairness the keynote was selected randomly just now, so I guess they couldn't have put it in a schedule ahead of time.
22:47:18 <fizzie> I do like this model where the answers to the Q&A questions are prerecorded.
23:02:34 <fizzie> Oh no, I don't have an SSTV decoder at all.
23:10:28 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, and he promises a longer video version of his talk too
23:10:37 <b_jonas> a director's cut or something
23:10:47 <b_jonas> which I assume will be on his youtube channel after the conference
23:11:50 <b_jonas> he also said that I got him to play shapez.io, and that took up much of his time before the conference, and I'm not sure if I should consider that a success or a failure because it means worse sigbovik talk,
23:12:37 <b_jonas> but I recommended that game two months ago, so how was I to know he'd start playing it shortly before the conference deadline. should I have warned him that it will hook him for weeks?
23:12:49 <b_jonas> I mean he's an adult, he can waste his time on his own
23:14:25 * nakilon has wasted last hours to deploy his first Ruby code onto Google Cloud Functions as a backend for the future chat bot
23:16:22 <fizzie> There were some references in the keynote video about it being ruined (or some other adjective) by the SIGBOVIK organizing committee.
23:22:15 <fizzie> This was nice. I don't know if all the papers and/or presentations were that great, but I'd kind of been missing the conference atmosphere.
23:25:21 <b_jonas> ok, the conference ended, so I'll rewind and watch the talks at the start, including tom7's
23:25:33 <b_jonas> though I think I'll want to see the full version and read the proceedings too
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23:50:12 <b_jonas> fizzie: full version of tom7's talk is out at https://www.twitch.tv/videos/971776826
00:16:09 <shachaf> b_jonas: Or at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRdruqQfRk
00:16:24 <shachaf> Unless the talk is different from the video?
00:16:59 <shachaf> No, looks like the same thing.
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00:31:36 <fizzie> Heh, nice to see QSSTV managed to decode that one bit.
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00:46:41 <arseniiv> <b_jonas> but I recommended that game two months ago, so how was I to know he'd start playing it shortly before the conference deadline => lol
00:51:01 <nakilon> I saw this game on Steam
00:51:13 <arseniiv> I marvel at this interconnectedness
00:51:21 <b_jonas> shachaf: yeah, I pasted the wrong thing. it's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRdruqQfRk
00:51:31 <nakilon> it looks repetitive
00:51:53 <nakilon> I would rather play Mindustry
00:52:25 <arseniiv> okay good morning everyone I’ll go see some dreams
00:52:38 <nakilon> same
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01:12:26 <b_jonas> nakilon: it has two nice puzzles in it, I recommended it to Tom for the puzzles specifically
01:12:48 <b_jonas> the two puzzles are at high levels, the earlier levels have to teach you all the tools that you can use to solve them
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02:52:51 <kmc> what's this about SSTV?
03:00:20 <pikhq> ^
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03:31:08 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81746&oldid=81743 * Digital Hunter * (+915) /* Example programs */ added a roman numerals program
03:33:18 <fizzie> kmc: The SIGBOVIK e-conference stream had a part where they had a slide up that just said "Is it possible to have images in an audio-only talk? (Please get your slow-scan television decoders ready.)"
03:34:00 <fizzie> Plus two more for the Q&A section. And a tune.
03:34:25 <kmc> hehe
03:34:34 <fizzie> (Not particularly exciting images, but it's the principle of the thing.)
03:34:40 <kmc> yes.
03:34:47 <kmc> what timestamp is that at
03:34:55 <fizzie> Around 01:16:15 in the https://www.twitch.tv/videos/971776826 recording.
03:35:00 <kmc> I decoded some SSTV images from HAARP once, that was neat
03:35:30 <fizzie> Googling around the topic, I learned they send SSTV images from the ISS sometimes.
03:35:56 <esowiki> [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81747&oldid=74672 * Hakerh400 * (+2586) Add TIO links
03:35:58 <kmc> yes
03:36:14 <kmc> I've tried to receive those too, but had pretty poor results
03:36:26 <kmc> and I'm not sure why, since other people have good results with even a very modest setup
03:36:45 <esowiki> [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81748&oldid=81747 * Hakerh400 * (-2) /* Cat */
03:37:37 <esowiki> [[Encapsulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81749&oldid=81748 * Hakerh400 * (-8) /* Reverse the sequence */
03:43:07 <kmc> I'd like to actually make a contact with SSTV one day
03:44:01 <kmc> I very rarely see people using it on HF
03:44:08 <kmc> but I guess there are scheduled SSTV nets that I could try to join
03:44:25 <kmc> I also don't have a very good HF setup although I've been working on that a little
03:54:55 <kmc> the particular use of SSTV in the SIGBOVIK reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellschreiber
03:55:58 <kmc> which is closer to RTTY in application, but closer to SSTV in implementation
03:56:06 <kmc> and is old as hell and definitely esoteric
04:11:43 <pikhq> cool as hell too
04:12:18 <pikhq> some day im going to do things that are cool and esoteric again
05:46:28 <zzo38> The most recent SIGBOVIK mentions Klondike solitaire cards, and how to make the game impossible. I prefer the Algerian solitaire cards (and other games), though; not Klondike so much.
05:47:10 <zzo38> Do you prefer the Algerian solitaire cards?
05:50:26 <zzo38> I also remember once (was it SIGBOVIK?) they mentioned how to make the longest chess game.
05:55:08 <kmc> how is that?
05:56:33 <zzo38> How is what one?
06:03:11 <zzo38> One rule of chess is that if neither player can checkmate the other player after any sequence of moves even if the players cooperate to do so, then no more moves are possible and the game ends in a draw. They mentioned that there, but I had also known about it earlier, as it was used in some retro chess problems.
06:03:12 <esowiki> [[User:Largejamie]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81750 * Largejamie * (+143) Created page with "Hello! I'm Jamie Large and I have the very creative username largejamie. Languages I've invented: * [[DFA-er]] * [[PDA-er]] * [[Airline food]]"
06:06:46 <b_jonas> fizzie: oh! I was wondering if it was fax or modem noises, I think I didn't pay attention tot he "slow-scan television decoders" thing
06:08:22 <b_jonas> so does the sound in the twitch stream actually carry enough information to decode that?
06:09:08 <b_jonas> and is this another of those formats that are designed to be transmitted through an analog telephone line, like fax and modems?
06:09:40 <b_jonas> I mean telephone line in a way that passes through the telephone exchanges
06:12:52 <b_jonas> and does it use compression like fax, or uncompressed like analog television?
06:15:11 <b_jonas> apparently it is uncompressed
06:15:23 <kmc> b_jonas: yes, it contains enough information to decode. I did it with qsstv earlier this evening
06:16:13 <zzo38> I read about slowscan, but I did not write a slowscan decoder in Farbfeld Utilities yet. (Presumably, it would acept the audio stream on stdin, given the format with the command-line arguments.)
06:17:19 <kmc> b_jonas: SSTV is primarily designed to be transmitted over analog radio links using the same bandwidth as a voice transmission, usually by connecting the encoding/decoding device (these days almost always a computer) to an analog radio using the same mode used for voice (FM or SSB)
06:18:40 <kmc> it's uncompressed and analog in nature; like fast-scan analog TV it has discrete scanlines, but is continuous in the horizontal dimension and the luma/chroma dimensions
06:22:59 <b_jonas> kmc: so not telephone lines. I see.
06:23:04 <b_jonas> thanks for the info
06:23:05 <kmc> noise or interfering signals in the radio channel will appear as static in the image
06:23:42 <kmc> you could use SSTV over a telephone line
06:23:49 <kmc> sounds like this was maybe done in the early days of SSTV
06:23:52 <kmc> > The concept of SSTV was introduced by Copthorne Macdonald[1] in 1957–58.[2] He developed the first SSTV system using an electrostatic monitor and a vidicon tube. It was deemed sufficient to use 120 lines and about 120 pixels per line to transmit a black-and-white still picture within a 3 kHz telephone channel. First live tests were performed on the 11-meter ham band – which was later given to the CB
06:23:54 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:13: error: <hint>:1:13: error: parse error on input ‘of’
06:23:58 <kmc> service in the US. In the 1970s, two forms of paper printout receivers were invented by hams.
06:23:59 <b_jonas> sounds like it was made for decoding with old equipment, like analog television
06:25:00 <kmc> yes, the idea dates back to the 60s
06:25:06 <kmc> was used on old space missions
06:25:13 <kmc> though in a different form from what hams use today
06:25:34 <b_jonas> and encoded too I guess
06:26:11 <kmc> the bandwidth of a SSB transmission on ham radio is pretty much the same as that of an old school analog voice call
06:26:17 <kmc> although the noise level will typically be much higher
06:29:00 <kmc> hams use SSTV now because a) we like old stuff and b) it fits in narrow bandwidth
06:29:44 <kmc> most of the HF bands have only 50 - 500 kHz of bandwidth, which is shared among all users of that band, potentially worldwide
06:29:51 <b_jonas> as for old technology, I'm still amazed by how between 1900 and 1910, people managed to set up working transatlantic telegraphy systems used in production both on radio and on undersea cables, all before they had cathode ray tubes or modern plastics
06:30:06 <kmc> yeah it's pretty neat
06:31:05 <b_jonas> have I mentioned yet why I looked up the history about that?
06:31:06 <kmc> it's pretty fucking convenient that the earth provides a natural equivalent of bouncing signals off a satellite, in the form of the ionosphere
06:31:28 <kmc> not an exact equivalent, of course; it's very complicated to do it well
06:31:35 <kmc> but it's kind of amazing that you can do it at all
06:31:47 <b_jonas> that and the Earth manages to shield us from radition
06:31:47 <kmc> and even more amazing that people got it working at basically the dawn of the modern era
06:31:50 <kmc> yes
06:32:00 <kmc> I think these two facts are related
06:32:06 <kmc> but i'm not too good at geophysics
06:32:07 <b_jonas> probably
06:32:33 <b_jonas> or...\
06:32:40 <kmc> what's even weirder is how little HF radio is used these days
06:32:46 <kmc> it still gets a fair amount of use but like
06:32:59 <b_jonas> maybe the ionosphere is related to the lower frequencies shielding only? I don't know
06:33:24 <kmc> skywave propagation of HF is this interesting natural phenomenon that was very important for human technology for a period of less than 100 years
06:33:27 <kmc> and is much less important today
06:33:32 <kmc> but it still works and it's still fun to do!
06:34:04 <kmc> it still blows my mind that I can set up a crappy wire antenna in my backyard and exchange text messages with someone in Russia by pumping less than 100 watts of power into that wire
06:34:10 <b_jonas> sure, but most of the communication goes on the higher bandwidth channels, I think that's natural
06:34:40 <b_jonas> kmc: what distance is that? I don't know how close you are to Russia
06:34:46 <kmc> I'm in San Francisco
06:34:56 <kmc> so even the far east part of russia is far
06:34:57 <b_jonas> nice
06:35:06 <kmc> and i've managed to message someone in/near the european part
06:35:16 <kmc> yeah, modern communication satellites provide way more throughput than all of HF combined, and much more reliably
06:35:37 <kmc> though at a price
06:36:04 <kmc> b_jonas: why were you looking up the history of transatlantic telegraphy?
06:36:09 <b_jonas> that too, but a lot of data is just sent on long distance cables and then transmitted on higher frequency radio near the two ends
06:36:16 <kmc> yeah
06:36:38 <kmc> one interesting niche of renewed interest in HF radio is high frequency (heh) stock trading
06:36:44 <kmc> where latency is much more important than throughput
06:37:01 <b_jonas> kmc: https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/47171973#47171973
06:37:36 <b_jonas> I thought they use undersea cables and computers in the middle of the Atlantic for that
06:37:55 <b_jonas> but HF might make sense
06:38:24 <kmc> signals travel much slower in cables than in free space
06:38:25 <b_jonas> how do they get permission to use HF for that though?
06:38:49 <kmc> some kind of commercial radio license from the FCC and whatever other national agencies are involved
06:38:50 <b_jonas> kmc: even in optical cables?
06:39:08 <kmc> yes
06:39:33 <b_jonas> ok. because I'm quite sure that trading thing wouldn't fall into amateur radio permissions.
06:39:43 <kmc> the refractive index of glass is about 1.5
06:40:04 <b_jonas> 1.4 to 2.2, yes
06:40:04 <kmc> so light travels 1/3 slower in glass than in air
06:40:18 <kmc> (air being very close to 1)
06:40:30 <kmc> of course the skywave path is not direct, it bounces off the ionosphere
06:40:30 <b_jonas> and a bit slower because it has to bounce around the cable, right?
06:40:36 <kmc> but the fiber optic signal does a bunch of bouncing too
06:40:36 <kmc> yes
06:40:48 <kmc> and yeah, they aren't doing it on amateur HF bands
06:41:07 <kmc> there are a bunch of licensed (and some unlicensed) users of HF spectrum besides hams
06:42:16 <kmc> shortwave broadcasters, aviation, marine weather reports, emergency comms in the australian outback, government, NGOs, military, spies
06:42:56 <kmc> time signals, ionospheric research
06:43:19 <kmc> also medical, industrial, and scientific uses that have nothing to do with long distance communication
06:43:27 <kmc> such as curing the glues within plywood by heating it with RF
06:44:01 <kmc> there are a few ISM bands within shortwave frequencies for such uses, just as there's a 2.4 GHz band used by microwave ovens and WiFi
06:44:16 <kmc> i'm told you can hear some of the big chinese plywood factories from across the pacific ocean
06:44:33 <b_jonas> he
06:44:55 <kmc> oh that reminds me another interesting use of HF: over-the-horizon radar
06:46:19 <kmc> like the Russian Woodpecker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar
06:47:17 <kmc> which was a massive pain in the ass to everyone as the Russians would transmit very powerful signals on whatever frequencies they felt like
06:47:39 <kmc> with little to no regard for the internationally recognized users of those frequencies
06:53:14 <kmc> 'That leaves “turn a river in its bed” as the only element of the poem that isn't possible with technology, not only in 1911 but even today, but that one is probably a hyperbole.' <-- I don't think it's hyperbole, just an idiomatic / poetic way of describing redirecting a river through earthworks
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06:55:19 <b_jonas> perhaps
06:55:30 <kmc> 'And “You shall see and hear your cracking question hurled” because it's a stupid spark gap radio, because the reasonable kind of amplitude modulated radio telegraph transmissions were invented but not in general use yet in 1911.'
06:56:26 <b_jonas> kmc: I did later find that there was an intermediate technology between spark gap and vacuum tube
06:56:27 <kmc> spark gaps were replaced with continuous wave long before amplitude modulation became practical
06:56:41 <kmc> probably thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_alternator ?
06:57:15 <b_jonas> let me check, I know where I read about this
06:57:43 <kmc> there's one in the world that still transmits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_Day
07:00:14 <b_jonas> "https://www.navalgazing.net/Signalling-Part-2" says "Poulsen arc", which seems different
07:00:48 <kmc> huh, interesting
07:01:14 <kmc> I haven't heard about that
07:01:16 <kmc> thanks for the link
07:07:37 <b_jonas> as for new technology, I find modern power supplies impossible. it looks like you shouldn't be able to transform voltage in such tiny packages made of mostly capacitors and be more efficient than the best traditional power supplies.
07:08:33 <b_jonas> makes me wonder what magic that I thought would be impossible we'd get ubiquitious in everyday life in the next decade
07:09:02 <b_jonas> might be better batteries
07:09:16 <b_jonas> it's big business so a lot of people are working on it
07:09:51 <kmc> yeah
07:10:21 <b_jonas> could be improved nuclear power generation too
07:10:54 <b_jonas> and I mean improved compared to molten salt generators, not improved compared to the forty year old ones that we still use
07:11:49 <b_jonas> I guess even more plastics with nice properties are pretty likely
07:13:09 <b_jonas> something to replace rubber with something that doesn't start drying and cracking after a few years would be nice
07:13:52 <kmc> it's not surprising that switch mode supplies can beat for efficiency a traditional supply of transformer + linear regulator, because a linear regulator works by requiring the unregulated input voltage to always be a bit higher than the desired regulated output, and burning off the excess as heat
07:13:55 <b_jonas> or better packing padding material than styrofoam
07:14:18 <kmc> lots of people are working on making packaging material out of mycelium
07:14:24 <kmc> i think ikea started shipping some of their products that way
07:14:30 <b_jonas> kmc: but the regulators weren't linear, they already had diodes or transistors when I was young
07:14:46 <kmc> a linear regulator uses transistors
07:14:57 <b_jonas> kmc: and also of cardboard, which seems to work well in many packaging
07:15:14 <b_jonas> kmc: why is it called linear then?
07:15:18 <b_jonas> in what sense is it linear?
07:15:42 <kmc> it acts like a linear amplifier
07:16:10 <kmc> it uses the transistor in its linear regime, where changes in the output voltage are proportional to changes in the input voltage
07:16:44 <b_jonas> does it? I thought you can't do that to make direct current
07:16:57 <b_jonas> it has to use nonlinearity to make direct current from alternating current
07:17:05 <b_jonas> and make it nice and smooth
07:17:13 <kmc> you're mixing up several things here
07:17:30 <kmc> you can turn AC into DC with just diodes
07:17:38 <kmc> yes, those are nonlinear elements
07:17:38 <b_jonas> yes, nonlinear diodes
07:17:55 <kmc> but they don't give you a regulated voltage either
07:18:10 <b_jonas> yes, so there are additional elements, including capacitors
07:18:34 <kmc> right
07:19:09 <kmc> but that's still only giving you some chosen fraction of the input voltage
07:19:19 <kmc> not some arbitrary fixed voltage that is independent of the input
07:19:27 <kmc> that's what a voltage regulator does
07:19:48 <b_jonas> I see
07:19:57 <kmc> e.g. the 7805 regulator always outputs 5 volts no matter the input (within some range of course)
07:20:03 <kmc> and it's a linear, not switch mode device
07:20:30 <kmc> it wastes power equivalent to (input voltage - output voltage) * current
07:20:55 <b_jonas> burning off the excess
07:20:58 <kmc> yes
07:21:57 <b_jonas> ok, but what makes old power supplies waste power when no power is drawn off them then?
07:22:24 <kmc> hmm
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07:24:22 <kmc> well an even crappier and simpler linear regulator (shunt regulator) will do that
07:25:32 <kmc> otherwise i don't know
07:25:48 <kmc> but i should go to bed now
07:25:50 <kmc> good night
07:27:08 <b_jonas> mind you, wasting much less power isn't the only way the new power supplies are impossible
07:27:11 <b_jonas> they're also smaller
07:27:24 <b_jonas> I could expect the logic part of computers get smaller, and the memories
07:27:34 <b_jonas> but the power supply is one that I'd have predicted needs size
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07:28:20 <kmc> that relates to the frequency used for switching
07:28:54 <kmc> inductors / transformers that transmit useful amounts of power at 50/60 Hz are much larger than ones that transmit the same amount of power at dozens to hundreds of kHz
07:29:31 <b_jonas> oh yeah, in impossible things I hope they'll invent, better superconductors would be nice too
07:29:32 <kmc> with simple components you have to reduce the frequency before rectifying it
07:29:44 <kmc> er, reduce the voltage
07:30:04 <kmc> in a switching power supply you can rectify the mains voltage and then switch that to regulate it down to the desired voltage
07:30:14 <kmc> in a sense going AC -> DC -> AC -> DC
07:30:28 <kmc> it is kind of funny that this ends up being more efficient
07:30:45 <kmc> ok, going to sleep for real now :)
07:30:46 <kmc> ttyl
07:30:57 <b_jonas> bye
07:34:03 <b_jonas> oh yeah, some people predict that the new RNA vaccine technology developed for this pandemic will allow to make good vaccines for much more viral infections for which we don't have a vaccine yet
07:34:13 <b_jonas> so if that indeed works out, that might be another one
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11:30:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * A esolang user * New user account
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13:00:16 <fizzie> Hah! One of my former coauthors is cited in one of the SIGBOVIK papers.
13:00:58 <fizzie> (Specifically, citation [4] of Universal Insights with Multi-layered Embeddings.)
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13:49:11 <nakilon> fizzie what are you coauthor of?
14:14:16 <int-e> Hmm, Recursed is still hard.
14:17:19 <int-e> (Yes I know it's been shown to be Turing-hard)
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14:32:40 <fizzie> I've been involved in 5 or so more or less (leaning towards "more") uninteresting papers together with Jort Gemmeke (and others) around "conventional" (read: pre-DNN-revolution) noise-robust speech recognition.
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14:51:59 <nakilon> why uninteresting?
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15:49:04 <esowiki> [[Pyramid Scheme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81751&oldid=76346 * B jonas * (+194) /* External resources */
16:02:53 <myname> pyramid scheme is a funny idea
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17:10:28 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81752&oldid=81719 * A esolang user * (+274)
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19:02:48 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81753&oldid=81746 * Digital Hunter * (+321) /* Example programs */ added a kolakoski sequence program
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20:43:01 <arseniiv> @tell nakilon I was away and didn’t notice what you messaged me sorry
20:43:02 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:43:15 <nakilon> arseniiv no!
20:43:18 <nakilon> *np
20:43:25 <arseniiv> oops you’re online
20:44:26 <nakilon> doesn't freenode have memoserv?
20:44:39 <nakilon> yes it has
20:44:52 <arseniiv> oh, how does it work?
20:44:58 <nakilon> /memoserv help
20:47:21 <arseniiv> a bit unconventional it doesn’t use private messages
20:48:19 <arseniiv> so in result it spams the window of the currently active channel, hm
20:48:19 <nakilon> i suppose PRIVMSG is for human-to-human
20:48:46 <nakilon> depends on your client, I guess some have a preference to show NOTICEs only in a server tab
20:49:07 <arseniiv> hm maybe I misconfigured something
20:49:09 <nakilon> I actually like when things don't make you switch tabs
20:49:31 <nakilon> the stupid Lounge that I use opens the /whois results in a query window
20:53:13 <fizzie> I feel like nobody ever actually uses MemoServ.
20:53:19 <fizzie> (On freenode, anyway.)
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20:59:39 <kmc> i've never used it
20:59:43 <kmc> someone should send me a memo!
21:01:13 <arseniiv> finally I set up coloring for this thing
21:01:49 <arseniiv> at least if it won’t flash and notify it will be discernible when scrolling the chat
21:01:55 <kmc> ty arseniiv
21:02:28 <arseniiv> this is fun :D
21:02:52 <fizzie> @tell lambdabot You're being usurped.
21:02:52 <lambdabot> Nice try ;)
21:03:54 <arseniiv> hm will lambdabot read a MemoServ’s message?..
21:04:33 <nakilon> I doubt
21:04:57 <arseniiv> at least it’s robust against unknown message types
21:05:03 <arseniiv> @eval 2 + 81
21:05:10 <arseniiv> or is it
21:05:39 <arseniiv> @run 2 + 81 -- eval is not the thing
21:05:41 <lambdabot> 83
21:06:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: I have used memoserv
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23:30:12 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81754&oldid=81753 * Digital Hunter * (-66) /* Commands and keywords */ reverted my "important clarification to "succeed""
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01:16:05 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81755&oldid=81754 * Digital Hunter * (+241) /* Example programs */ added a thue-morse sequence program
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01:20:10 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81756&oldid=81755 * Digital Hunter * (+9) /* Commands and keywords */ better important clarification to "succeed"
01:31:32 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81757&oldid=81712 * Not applicable * (+2237) add Z-Machine clone
02:44:20 <zzo38> What are some things that occur at regular or nearly regular intervals, are unpredictable, and once they have occurred can easily be verified by anyone in the world and will be recorded for verification in the future too? I had idea involving such things using as a random number seed.
03:42:44 <arcsor5> good question zzo38. Reddit posts?
03:53:59 <kmc> blockchain blocks
03:55:42 <kmc> there are some bitcoin lotteries which work this way, you can place bets regarding bits of the hash of the next block accepted after some specified time
03:56:23 <kmc> this way you can verify that the lottery administrators are not rigging the RNG
03:56:43 <kmc> and since bets are made publicly, by sending bitcoins to their address, you can also verify that everyone in the past who bet and won has been paid
03:57:32 <kmc> of course at any time they could still decide to cheat everyone and pocket the money for the next round but it would be clear to everyone that they had done so, and people would stop playing their lottery
03:59:07 <kmc> I think with ethereum or other smart contract coins you could do one better, make a lottery that is collectively administered by the consensus of the network, so as long as a majority of nodes interpret contracts faithfully then the people who placed winning bets will get paid, there is no central entity that can decide to stiff them
03:59:38 <kmc> i think smart contracts have somewhat limited utility compared to the hype but there are some tidy and self contained things you can do with them
04:01:50 <b_jonas> kmc: I do want random numbers that are verifiable to not have been rigged by a third party, even later. They can be useful for experiments, like when I want to prove a statistical statement that has a too large domain, so I can't measure every possibility, I have to take a sample, but I want to prove that I haven't picked my sample in a biased way to support my statement. I don't see why they'd be
04:01:56 <b_jonas> useful for *lotteries* though. Do the kind of people who rigorously verify that the company really gets the numbers from blockchain actually buy lottery tickets?
04:02:48 <kmc> there are definitely people who are interested in online gambling who are tech savvy enough to verify such things
04:02:56 <kmc> perhaps not lotteries but more interesting games?
04:03:22 <kmc> in the old days of numbers rackets run by the mafia they would use the last digits of the closing price of the Dow Jones Industrial Average or whatever as the RNG
04:03:30 <kmc> because anyone can verify that by picking up a newspaper
04:03:49 <kmc> the mob bets on the low bits of the dow and wall street bets on the high bits ;P
04:04:55 <b_jonas> kmc: like poker? perhaps.
04:05:09 <kmc> b_jonas: the idea of picking random numbers in a way that proves you have nothing up your sleeve is also used in non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs
04:05:50 <b_jonas> kmc: yes, zero-knowledge or at least reduced knowledge is possible too
04:05:50 <kmc> a traditional ZKP is an interactive protocol where you pose challenge questions and receive answers
04:06:18 <kmc> if the other party is able to answer enough questions properly then you can be reasonably confident they have whatever knowledge they don't want to reveal directly
04:06:43 <kmc> in a non interactive form they pose the questions to themselves, but have to prove that they picked them randomly
04:06:54 <b_jonas> yeah
04:07:15 <kmc> by the way another interesting and self contained use case for smart contracts is posting bounties for forged cryptographic certificates
04:07:16 <b_jonas> but the non-interactive thing still applies if the proof isn't zero-knowledge
04:07:26 <b_jonas> versus interactive
04:08:09 <kmc> if I own some domain I can write a smart contract which pays out to anyone who can present a TLS certificate for that domain, that is signed by <insert list of CAs>, and is not one of the legitimate certs mentioned in the contract
04:08:30 <kmc> all that can be encoded in a smart contract without reference to any external judge or data source
04:08:51 <kmc> so the person who is perhaps expending resources or taking risks to claim the bounty knows that they will be paid on completion
04:33:45 <zzo38> Can you verify bitcoin hashes if you do not have bitcoin? How often is Dow Jones average updated? Is it only on business days, or every day? Are there other things? Does bitcoin have timestamps?
04:34:24 <zzo38> Also, I would think that bitcoin presumably would require too many blocks to verify it properly?
04:35:33 <arcsor5> Usually reddit posts can be verified easily by just going on the site using their api
04:35:48 <b_jonas> I thought the problem with bitcoin was that you can influence it. not deterministically, but bias it by a small amount, in case you manage to mine the block that is referenced.
04:36:20 <b_jonas> mind you, that's still a small enough bias that you can account for it in calculating bounds and do most things that require a random sample and a statistical proof
04:40:58 <zzo38> I don't know a lot about how it works, but yes I suppose that makes sense. Although, even if it is Reddit you can post your own messages too if you have an account.
04:41:32 <oren> apparently irssi and w3m use the boehm garbage collector
04:42:26 <arcsor5> Reddit has a message stream so you simply take random messages and put them in your generator. To verify use the link. No account needed i think. You can use the byte representation of the values
04:45:15 <zzo38> Ideally something that does not require an internet connection would also help, I suppose.
04:46:21 <arcsor5> Then i guess some sensor/adapter that captures a real world value would be acquired. That's what random.org has
04:48:10 <zzo38> Sirlin's Codex card game is designed that you do not need to do anything on your opponent's turn; you do stuff only on your own turn. With the system that I have thought of, the game rules need no modification, although some of the card effects will not work.
04:48:57 <oren> Another source of random numbers that occurs regularly is weather
04:49:01 <zzo38> Specifically, the ones that allow you to draw cards during your own turn won't work, and the ones that allow you to look at opponent's cards will not work; you can only draw cards during opponent's turn.
04:49:14 <zzo38> Yes, but the weather is predictable.
04:50:20 <oren> . o O (would we get better weather reports if predicting the *exact* temperature and rainfall was linked to a substantial monetrary prize?)
04:51:07 <arcsor5> Just use the built in rng
04:51:11 <zzo38> Maybe then would they use the money to build better equipment for predicting the weather (if such a thing is possible)?
04:51:17 <arcsor5> urandom is pretty good
04:52:39 <zzo38> Yes, and if you want to generate random numbers locally, for your own use, that works.
04:52:41 <kmc> urandom or random.org does not solve the problem of distributed consensus about the randomly generated value
04:53:16 <kmc> you have to trust that whoever is publishing the result really chose it randomly
04:53:21 <zzo38> But, yes, distributed consensus about the randomly generated value is what I am asking about, and urandom isn't that.
04:53:28 <zzo38> Still, what is the interval of Dow Jones?
04:53:41 <kmc> well the closing price is published once a day, on days when the market is open
04:54:07 <kmc> (which is most weekdays, although the holiday schedule is not exactly the same as US Federal holidays or whatever)
04:54:28 <zzo38> OK
04:54:29 <kmc> https://www.nyse.com/markets/hours-calendars
04:54:42 <kmc> defining prices intraday is a little trickier
04:55:03 <kmc> because there are in reality many different venues in which you can trade the same set of stocks
04:55:14 <kmc> and the price of the last executed trade may be different on each
04:55:39 <kmc> there is some attempt to regulate the existence of a 'national market system' with a coherent idea of last trade price, but it's complicated
04:55:55 <kmc> and of course, stock prices are not random, and can be predicted and manipulated to some degree
04:58:23 <kmc> and it's not really distributed consensus, it's centralized consensus published by a centralized organization (NYSE) that is deemed to have little to no interest in manipulating the mafia's illegal lotteries
04:58:23 <zzo38> Yes, they probably can be predicted and manipulated to some degree, although I don't know what degree. (Although, there is lso some degree for the other things mentioned, too.)
04:58:33 <kmc> because they have a much bigger and legal lottery to run ;)
04:58:59 <zzo38> Are there stars or other stuff in space that is suitable at all?
04:59:01 <kmc> an issue with using the weather is that you have to trust whoever publishes the data
04:59:28 <kmc> while it's hard to actually manipulate the weather, it's easy to manipulate the records of the weather
04:59:39 <zzo38> The positions of planets and stuff can easily be predicted, but I don't know if there is stuff that isn't
04:59:45 <kmc> and you can't prove after the fact that it was really 30° instead of 29° at some location at some time
04:59:55 <kmc> that's an interesting idea zzo38
05:00:18 <zzo38> Yes, although if it is local weather, you can at least check at the time that it is wrong. That won't help for weather in other places though
05:00:36 <kmc> that depends on the precision used
05:00:51 <kmc> I won't expect the temperature just outside my house to always be exactly the same to the degree as the weather station some miles away
05:01:11 <zzo38> O, yes, I suppose you are right about that
05:01:34 <kmc> there is lots of radiation coming from space that is random in arrival time, but also very localized, so it's not suitable
05:01:46 <kmc> you can use the arrival times of cosmic radiation as a good local RNG but you can't build distributed consensus from that
05:02:59 <kmc> everyone will get different random numbers (which is of course desirable for a local RNG)
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10:30:57 <b_jonas> fungot, how old were your children when you let them use an angle grinder?
10:30:57 <fungot> b_jonas: called a guy who's at the job with me, so why memorize it now?) ircnomic
10:32:11 <nakilon> Johnny Шrcnomic
10:32:15 <nakilon> Johnny Ircnomic
10:34:36 <b_jonas> `? password
10:34:38 <HackEso> The password of the month is grammaphobic.
10:34:47 <b_jonas> that's last month's password. what's this month's?
10:40:06 <nakilon> ` date
10:40:08 <HackEso> ​? Permission denied
10:40:32 <nakilon> ` date please
10:40:33 <HackEso> ​? Permission denied
10:41:38 <b_jonas> `sudo date
10:41:39 <HackEso> sudo: effective uid is not 0, is /usr/bin/sudo on a file system with the 'nosuid' option set or an NFS file system without root privileges?
10:42:09 <b_jonas> `date
10:42:10 <b_jonas> `datei
10:42:10 <HackEso> Sat Apr 3 10:42:10 UTC 2021
10:42:11 <HackEso> 2021-04-03 10:42:10.992 +0000 UTC April 3 Saturday 2021-W13-6
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11:11:02 <int-e> `` grep /usr /proc/mounts
11:11:03 <HackEso> none /usr hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/ 0 0
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12:25:00 <nakilon> is there a language that demands you to write not [1,2,3] but [1,2,3,] ?
12:26:08 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, but many of the old ones have since been fixed up to accept the latter too
12:27:25 <b_jonas> one related interesting thing is that [7,,9] has a different meaning in perl and in javascript: in perl it's the same as [7,9]; but in javascript there's a missing slot between the 7 and the 9 in the aray
12:30:36 <nakilon> I would allow only the latter
12:31:11 <nakilon> I suppose we put comma only in between because historically we were writing word sentences before arrays
12:31:23 <nakilon> and there we write: cat, dog, monkey.
12:31:52 <nakilon> where the "." looks almost like "," and so has two roles at the same time -- pointing that it's the end and pointing that before it there is the last element
12:32:19 <nakilon> while in the arrays syntax the end symbol isn't "." but some bracket
12:33:18 <nakilon> the "1, 2, 3." array syntax would be ok too
12:34:30 <nakilon> or not ok
12:34:53 <nakilon> maybe ok if there is some autoreplace system in the IDE
12:35:33 <nakilon> that when I select the last element and the dot and press the "dup" shortcut it dups it replacing the "." with "," in the left copy
12:36:27 <nakilon> so imagine in code I have a literal like this
12:36:30 <nakilon> 1,
12:36:31 <nakilon> 2,
12:36:32 <nakilon> 3.
12:36:43 <nakilon> I select the third line, press dup shortcut and get
12:36:45 <nakilon> 1,
12:36:46 <nakilon> 2,
12:36:48 <nakilon> 3,
12:36:50 <nakilon> 3.
13:06:42 <fizzie> There's at least one language (Go) that demands you write "{\n1,\n2,\n3,\n}" instead of "{\n1,\n2,\n3\n}" -- as in, it requires the comma at an end of each item if it's a comma-separated list (composite literal, function call) that's been split to multiple lines; https://play.golang.org/p/9dx0hNz5I36 is a syntax error.
13:10:22 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81758&oldid=81718 * EnilKoder * (+17)
13:12:57 <nakilon> cool
13:26:51 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81759&oldid=71495 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+783) Add another "better" Generator
13:28:22 <esowiki> [[SPAM/1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81760&oldid=38799 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) /* Syntax */ Make all spaces show
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15:54:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Leothetechguy * New user account
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16:04:40 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81761&oldid=81752 * Leothetechguy * (+323)
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16:24:41 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81762 * Leothetechguy * (+311) Created page with "'''Deskileq''' (Decrement and skip next line if less than or equal to zero) is an OISC esoteric language designed to use only 1 Argument. It uses a memory address which it dec..."
16:27:09 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81763&oldid=81762 * Leothetechguy * (+73)
16:30:36 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81764&oldid=81763 * Leothetechguy * (+12)
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16:38:48 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81766&oldid=81765 * Leothetechguy * (+55)
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16:41:36 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81768&oldid=81767 * Leothetechguy * (+9)
16:44:51 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81769&oldid=81768 * Leothetechguy * (-99)
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17:05:43 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81770&oldid=81769 * Leothetechguy * (+3)
17:05:55 <nakilon> what's the simpliest regex to cut possible space substrings on both sides of the string?
17:06:17 <myname> what
17:06:18 <nakilon> " s s s " => "s"
17:06:34 <nakilon> " s " => "s"
17:06:36 <myname> \s+
17:06:38 <myname> ?
17:06:42 <nakilon> " s", "s " => "s"
17:07:07 <NotApplicable> I know in most BASIC dialects LTRIM$ and RTRIM$ do just that, maybe there's an equivalent to that for whatever language you
17:07:07 <nakilon> oh, => "s s s" -- fix for my 1st example
17:07:11 <NotApplicable> 're using?
17:07:18 <myname> so you want trimming
17:07:25 <nakilon> yes, trim spaces
17:07:51 <myname> s/^\s*(\S*)\s*$/\1/
17:08:05 <nakilon> wrong
17:08:20 <nakilon> you match only one word
17:08:27 <myname> you are right
17:08:43 <myname> should be .*, but that would be slow as hell possibly
17:08:53 <myname> i wouldn't use regex for that, tbh
17:09:19 <myname> or if i want to, i'd replace ^\s* and \s*$ with the empty string
17:09:48 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81771&oldid=81770 * Leothetechguy * (+29)
17:10:03 <nakilon> hm, two regexes will be ok for me I guess
17:10:05 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81772&oldid=81771 * Leothetechguy * (-29)
17:10:06 <nakilon> just wanted one
17:10:27 <myname> why would you want to do that with regexes anyways?
17:10:56 <nakilon> are you afraid of regexes?
17:11:00 <myname> no
17:11:09 <NotApplicable> i am lol
17:11:10 <myname> but i don't think they are the right tool for that
17:11:15 <myname> i love regexes
17:11:59 <nakilon> do you prefer 10 pages of nested loops instead of this? https://i.imgur.com/DilytEt.png
17:12:45 <myname> no, but that's not at all comparable
17:13:19 <myname> regexes are nice as long as you can clearly define what to match at each point
17:13:34 <myname> as soon as a naked . comes into play, it can go downhill quite quickly
17:14:30 <nakilon> I guess this works /\A *(.*?) *\z/
17:15:56 <myname> https://blog.codinghorror.com/regex-performance/
17:17:01 <nakilon> are you fighting windmills?
17:17:09 <myname> no
17:17:27 <nakilon> or ever wrote a programs that has more than 100 string matching procedures?
17:17:33 <myname> i'm just saying, that your other regexes are guaranteed to behave nicely, since none of them contains a .
17:18:17 <myname> but as soon as you have a .* in it, parsing times can go wild
17:18:30 <nakilon> yeah, imaginary windmills
17:18:39 <myname> how is that imaginary?
17:18:55 <nakilon> because there are no windmills in my 20 megabytes of text
17:18:55 <myname> it's a real problem, go try it out for yourself
17:19:11 <nakilon> tried it 100 times today
17:20:05 <myname> and there is really no reason to prefer the single regex for trimming both ends over one for each left and right trimming
17:20:44 <nakilon> there is a clear reason to prefer one over two since one will work
17:21:08 <myname> two will also work, so that's a pretty bad reason
17:21:38 <nakilon> okay, you aren't afraid of regex, you are afraid of logic
17:21:46 <myname> as is "my code can be shitty since my input is nice", since people train themself this way and sometimes projects tend to gain way more traction than initially thought
17:21:55 <myname> how so?
17:22:05 <nakilon> how is /\A *(.*?) *\z/ shitty?
17:22:14 <nakilon> you are again fihgting with some imaginary windmills
17:22:16 <nakilon> calling them shitty
17:22:20 <myname> if both work, how is "the one i chose works" a reason to prefer it?
17:22:30 <nakilon> one is better than two
17:22:35 <myname> how so?
17:22:53 <nakilon> come back when you are sober
17:22:54 <nakilon> ignored
17:23:07 <myname> it might be a tad faster in ruby since it cannot easily compile those into DFAs beforehand
17:23:12 <myname> i am sober
17:23:32 <nakilon> these windmill fighters
17:23:51 <nakilon> with their own imaginary shitty code they imaginge in your code
17:23:53 <myname> that has nothing to do with windmill fighting, it's a point of style and efficiency
17:23:54 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81773&oldid=81772 * Leothetechguy * (+82)
17:24:08 <nakilon> and imaginary coworkers on imaginary projects
17:24:32 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81774&oldid=81773 * Leothetechguy * (+8)
17:24:34 <nakilon> just to waste someone's time on pointless debates
17:24:40 <nakilon> learn to get things done
17:24:56 <myname> says the guy that needs to ask for like the most basic pcre
17:25:00 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81775&oldid=81774 * Leothetechguy * (-8)
17:25:14 <myname> i am getting things done fairly well, thank you
17:26:00 <nakilon> these "aaahhh! I saw a blogpost in some hype blog! now I can't sleep, I see bad dreams about slow regexes and will annoy other people with it too"
17:26:40 <myname> i read many more than that, it was just like the first google result to give you as an entry
17:26:50 <myname> also, why not just use .strip()?
17:27:00 <nakilon> could just say "I suck in regexes" if he does not know the answer to my question
17:27:19 <myname> you do realize i provided you with your answer, do you?
17:27:40 <nakilon> not thinking about multiple words in a string
17:27:41 <myname> .strip() is most likely more efficient and way more readable
17:27:47 <nakilon> not thinking about multiline string
17:27:59 <myname> i corrected that like seconds later
17:28:20 <nakilon> if your experience in a subject is this low why do you debate?... rhetorical question
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17:28:43 <myname> my experience is far from being low, thank you
17:29:13 <myname> if your experience in ruby is so low that you aren't even aware of strip, why do you use ruby? rhetorical question
17:29:48 <int-e> sigh, so much anger over what could be a healthy intellectual debate weighing the pros and cons of regexes and other approaches to stripping whitespace.
17:30:48 <myname> regex is almost always the worst option to trimming. at best, it just compiles down to a dfa that does the exact same thing that strip() will probably do, that is just loop over the string char by char and kick out spaces
17:31:40 <nakilon> I've got annoyed because there were no practical arguments, only some imaginary windmills with imaginary data, imaginary regexes, imaginary projects and coworkers, nothing close to the real project I'm working on
17:32:29 <myname> how is that more than "this doesn't apply to me"? which is a garbage argument to make if the better solution is shorter and more readable
17:33:00 <NotApplicable> on an unrelated note, does anybody know if GitHub Pages support "including" HTML files into other HTML files?
17:34:07 <nakilon> if we don't know you may ask in ##github
17:34:10 <myname> i mean, you could do iframes?
17:34:57 <NotApplicable> No like i could have a header HTML file for the top part of the site, and another one for the bottom.
17:35:26 <myname> what's wrong with iframes for that?
17:35:44 <nakilon> you could use iframes
17:37:32 <NotApplicable> I could try that
17:38:24 <myname> i doubt that github will do server side processing for github pages
17:39:41 <nakilon> there was also some another html tag but it's probably not recommended nowadays
17:40:28 <myname> yes, there are 3-ish tags for that and you _could_ use js to modify the dom, but that's most likely not worth it
17:41:17 <nakilon> here are some <object> and <embed> https://stackoverflow.com/q/8702704/322020
17:41:32 <nakilon> but there was something different... you could split the page vertically or horizonatlly
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17:44:46 <nakilon> found it <frameset>
17:44:58 <myname> no, don't use framesets
17:45:27 <myname> framesets are deprecated for like 10 years now
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17:49:03 <zzo38> I think that it is best to use neither iframes nor framesets due to the disadvantages of them, and using server-side includes instead. Any type of frames have disadvantages of losing the URL if links to a different page, and if changing the outer one instead, will fail if frames are resized or if the user specifically wants only the frame. It can also fail with some methods of downloading a document to make a local copy
17:51:52 <int-e> I guess the closest NotApplicable will come to their dream is to rely on github's support of Jekyll and https://jekyllrb.com/docs/includes/
17:51:54 <myname> with modern web, you can mitigate quite a lot of those issues
17:53:03 <int-e> But NotApplicable left.
17:53:17 <nakilon> use memoserv!
17:53:27 <int-e> Nah, we have logs for that.
17:53:44 <nakilon> send him a memo to check the logs
17:55:13 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81776&oldid=81775 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
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18:15:04 <NotApplicable> I tried opening an HTML file in konqueror and misspelt the URI and for some reason it started spewing a ton of windows out and i couldnt stop it so i had to reboot
18:17:04 <myname> oh wow, konqueror is still a thing?
18:18:21 <NotApplicable> I dont think development is all that active anymore, but yeah
18:21:03 <NotApplicable> I guess its like a midpoint between firefox and arora; lightweight like arora but also capable like firefox
18:23:36 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81777&oldid=81776 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
18:26:30 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81778&oldid=81777 * Leothetechguy * (-9)
18:31:41 <NotApplicable> iframe doesn't seem to work for what I need...
18:32:33 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81779&oldid=81778 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
18:33:05 <NotApplicable> It runs the html in a sandbox-y environment, which is what I feared it would do
18:33:34 <NotApplicable> (maybe i could try having a linker thing, and generate the HTML files locally?>
18:39:43 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81780&oldid=81709 * Leothetechguy * (+15)
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19:23:05 <fizzie> NotApplicable: int-e suggested Jekyll while you were away.
19:23:26 <fizzie> NotApplicable: There's apparently some built-in support for it in GitHub Pages. No idea about the details, but https://docs.github.com/en/pages/setting-up-a-github-pages-site-with-jekyll
19:23:34 <fizzie> (There's an include mechanism in it.)
19:25:00 <nakilon> how many of you have a personal page? and how many of you have a blog? like in percents
19:25:34 <int-e> I have 10% of a personal page? :-P
19:25:38 <nakilon> I mean I would like to know in percents but idk how we would know the number without giving personal answers
19:25:43 <NotApplicable> I didnt really want to use Jekyll because I wanted to have alot of control over my content
19:26:00 <NotApplicable> I technically have a blog but i rarely use it
19:26:09 <NotApplicable> :P
19:26:17 <fizzie> I haven't updated mine since late 2014, does that mean the % is exponentially decaying?
19:26:20 <int-e> NotApplicable: at a glance it looked like you can get down to the html level if you want. But I haven't used it.
19:26:23 <nakilon> let's say if you didn't update it for 5 years then assume you don't have it
19:27:05 <nakilon> when I tried to have a blog ~10 years ago I could not come up with a decent style
19:27:06 <int-e> NotApplicable: also if you're looking at static site generators I suppose you can also look at others and use them on your end, instead of relying on github to do that for you somewhere in their cloud
19:27:09 <nakilon> writing style
19:28:07 <NotApplicable> int-e: I hacked together a simple linker that does the includes on my end before I publish the stuff, I am going to see if that works
19:28:07 <nakilon> then all the interesting findings with big textual commentaries of mine I had were in G+ but it's gone
19:28:37 <myname> NotApplicable: cat in post-receive hooks orks fine
19:28:46 <myname> been there, done that
19:29:03 <nakilon> then I've bought a domain and I keep paying for it while I can't chose the blog platform to use
19:30:03 <nakilon> there was some guy on reddit who made a blog platform specially for coders like a year ago, I even was in Beta, but didn't come up with a content to test it
19:30:34 <nakilon> I guess this https://coding.blog/
19:30:42 <NotApplicable> I just use Scratch and Forkphorus and an embed because Scratch is essentially free hosting
19:31:00 <NotApplicable> And it doesnt notify everybody when i update it
19:31:10 <nakilon> "AI- driven personalised" -- wtf, I don't remember it was like this
19:31:10 <NotApplicable> Not ideal, but okay
19:31:50 <NotApplicable> Only thing is i cant use profanities which isnt that big of a problem
19:32:59 <nakilon> I host on Google Cloud Storage (analogue of AWS S3) but it'll go down when I stop paying for GCP account (because I not only use free services) and also because of the "account inactivity" disabling thing on Google
19:33:23 <NotApplicable> Im a cheapo so i dont like paying for anything
19:33:46 <nakilon> GCS and S3 is basically free
19:34:13 <nakilon> you pay only 0.(0)1$ for uploading the static page
19:34:50 <nakilon> or not, I guess there is also a Free quota for uploading
19:34:53 <nakilon> so it's fully free
19:36:10 <NotApplicable> One of my friends on GH use something called infinity free which claims to be 100% free, no ads, and unlimited storage
19:36:10 <NotApplicable> but it sounds too good to be true IMO
19:36:18 <nakilon> 5GB of free storage https://cloud.google.com/storage/pricing#cloud-storage-always-free
19:37:07 <NotApplicable> I mean i font really have alot of stuff on my site so i could try that
19:37:08 <nakilon> I doubt there is anything infinity-free with direct links to pages
19:37:26 <nakilon> there were two unlimited cloud file storages and one is gone already
19:37:46 <NotApplicable> I dont think infinity-free does free SSL though
19:38:21 <nakilon> HTTPS is free for GCS only if you access via their domain, not yours
19:39:21 <nakilon> for example http://www.nakilon.pro/esolang.htm vs https://storage.googleapis.com/www.nakilon.pro/esolang.htm
19:39:48 <nakilon> the JS on the latter is even broken, didn't check why, probably because of HTTP/HTTPS security policies
19:40:27 <nakilon> I could add HTTPS for my domain via Google Cloud but that would need some non-free Balancer service IIRC
19:40:54 <nakilon> or via the domain registration, no big difference I guess
19:44:40 <NotApplicable> I dont really care for the domain, as long as its functional, its fine for me
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19:47:20 <nakilon> checked, the JS is broken because it fetches HTTP: fetch("http://
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19:53:43 <nakilon> both Russian cloud platforms are cheaper than GCP and AWS but still don't have Always Free Tier (
19:54:38 <zzo38> I have a HTTP (as well as Gopher and NNTP) service on my computer, but not a "personal page" or a "blog".
19:54:46 <nakilon> I assume they are cheaper because they have lower number of "9" in SLA but that's not critical at all for Free Tier users
19:56:23 <nakilon> zzo38 was interesting to read about this thing I've discovered recently https://sdf.org/?tour/history/index
19:56:32 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
19:56:38 <int-e> Hmm, https://cloudatcost.com/ seems to have increased their prices. But I'm sure their service is as awful as ever ;)
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20:07:13 <nakilon> is there an English idiom for https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%85
20:09:30 <NotApplicable> Not any that I can think of, really.
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20:16:32 <zzo38> Which programming languages other than PostScript use marks on the stack to make lists like PostScript does? (There probably are some, but I don't know what they are)
20:25:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: https://esolangs.org/wiki/GML sort of does, but you can't actually manipulate the mark as if it was a normal value
20:25:54 <b_jonas> so not really
20:26:06 <b_jonas> maybe blsq did? I don't remember
20:29:27 <zzo38> In Ghostscript, some of the new operators (and also the standard pdfmark operator) use a list which has not been made into its own object, for efficiency. However, I can think of another way, which does not require this, instead deferring making the array/dictionary objects; this might only be done for optimized procedures, possibly "executeonly" operator might do such optimizations (after "bind" is also used)
20:39:26 <zzo38> b_jonas: OK
20:42:05 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81781&oldid=81615 * Zzo38 * (+244)
20:45:05 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81782&oldid=81756 * Digital Hunter * (+0) /* Thue-Morse sequence */
20:48:05 <zzo38> I have seen a complaint that when pdfmark is used that you write [ without a matching ] and they apparently didn't know why; well, if you don't like that, then you can write the word "mark" instead of "[" it means the same thing.
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23:58:46 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81783&oldid=81779 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Examples */ Cats
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01:27:15 <oren> I need a nontrivial unicode string
01:28:35 <NotApplicable> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
01:28:38 <NotApplicable> like that
01:30:07 <oren> that works
01:34:08 <shachaf> `? haiku
01:34:11 <HackEso> ​🀨や⛄
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02:38:12 <arcsor5> speaking of esolangs, im making my own programming language
02:38:16 <arcsor5> its a domain specific langauge
02:56:52 <zzo38> OK. What programming language is it, and what is it for?
03:15:03 <zzo38> (I also have designed some domain specific programming languages; that is what Free Hero Mesh is.)
03:15:19 <zzo38> (I also had some ideas about other domain specific programming languages, such as solitaire cards, and Magic: the Gathering cards, too.)
03:17:23 <arcsor5> Its for a video related program, i dont have a name for it yet
03:17:37 <zzo38> OK.
03:17:55 <arcsor5> speaking of free hero, how is that going
03:18:32 <zzo38> It is probably in a state ready to be used normally now, although more testing would help, and there are also some more features which may be added later
03:21:19 <zzo38> If you want to test it, or try to make up your own puzzle, feature suggestions, bug reports, question (that I can add into the FAQ section), etc, then you can do so.
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08:07:52 <esowiki> [[Transceternal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81784&oldid=74559 * Hakerh400 * (+1635) Add TIO links
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08:19:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Leothetechguy * moved [[Deskileq]] to [[Deskin]]: Old name sounded bad and didn't correspond with the examples
08:20:05 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81787&oldid=81785 * Leothetechguy * (-2)
08:23:22 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81788&oldid=81787 * Leothetechguy * (-46)
08:24:05 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81789&oldid=81780 * Leothetechguy * (-2) /* D */
08:24:18 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81790&oldid=81788 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
08:59:34 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81791&oldid=81790 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
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10:13:01 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81792&oldid=81791 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
10:13:37 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81793&oldid=81792 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
10:21:48 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81794&oldid=81793 * Leothetechguy * (+128)
10:23:12 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81795&oldid=81794 * Leothetechguy * (+60)
11:36:29 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81796&oldid=81795 * Leothetechguy * (+26)
11:38:30 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81797&oldid=81796 * Leothetechguy * (-5)
11:40:53 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81798&oldid=81797 * Leothetechguy * (-62)
11:41:22 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81799&oldid=81798 * Leothetechguy * (-7)
11:41:32 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81800&oldid=81799 * Leothetechguy * (-11)
11:53:22 <b_jonas> arcsor5: is it a low-level image processing language? or a video cutting language?
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12:06:15 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81801&oldid=81800 * Leothetechguy * (+54)
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12:30:04 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81802&oldid=81801 * Leothetechguy * (-45)
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13:04:46 <fizzie> `` unidecode $(\? haiku)
13:23:18 <esowiki> [[Forest]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81803 * Hakerh400 * (+8195) +[[Forest]]
13:23:21 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81804&oldid=81789 * Hakerh400 * (+13) +[[Forest]]
13:23:23 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81805&oldid=81269 * Hakerh400 * (+13) +[[Forest]]
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13:52:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SCKelemen * New user account
13:58:19 <arseniiv_> buying plane tickets is too risky an undertaking. You can reload a page and buy for tomorrow instead of the intended date. Meh
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14:05:09 <myname> as somebody working in aviation industry, i fully agree
14:23:12 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81806&oldid=81761 * SCKelemen * (+572) Add myself
14:23:20 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81807 * SCKelemen * (+1681) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Nomad |paradigms=functional, probabilistic |author=[[Async Engineering]] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |typesys=static |memsys=stack-based |refimpl=[h..."
14:29:29 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81808&oldid=81807 * SCKelemen * (+101)
14:39:06 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81809&oldid=81808 * SCKelemen * (+342)
14:40:08 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81810&oldid=81809 * SCKelemen * (+2)
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15:08:39 <esowiki> [[Dotsy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81811&oldid=72540 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Stub && Language
15:16:57 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81812&oldid=81802 * Leothetechguy * (+79)
15:18:43 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81813&oldid=81812 * Leothetechguy * (-64)
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15:26:35 <b_jonas> arseniiv: and they never tell you timezones or UTC times, only localtimes
15:29:05 <arseniiv> b_jonas: yes, that’s quite inconvenient too, though usually there is a flight time so at least you can calculate something more or less easily
15:29:37 <arseniiv> myname: oh
15:33:27 <esowiki> [[DINAC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81815&oldid=79191 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+3) /* Cat program */ Make the program better
15:37:01 <b_jonas> it will get worse if the European politicians force timezone changes on us
15:37:20 <b_jonas> because currently I at least more or less understand European timezones
15:37:51 <b_jonas> but if the politicians insist on causing chaos, I'll be afraid
15:42:30 <esowiki> [[Stu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81816&oldid=79418 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* Truth-machine */ now
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15:59:10 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81817&oldid=78509 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Program structure */ Fxi a typo
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16:01:34 <esowiki> [[XENBLN/Commands]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81818&oldid=78510 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-4) April already?
16:02:24 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81819&oldid=81817 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Commands */ The date is updated now.
16:07:34 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81820&oldid=81819 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) /* Datatypes */ Fix code tag.
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16:35:41 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81821&oldid=81814 * Leothetechguy * (+170)
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17:21:48 <arseniiv> b_jonas: what’s be wrought? I usually don’t read or watch any news whatsoever, partially to shield myself from political opininon machinations as much as possible, but in the result I’m not up to date even with something purely scientific
17:21:56 <arseniiv> let alone that
17:37:54 <nakilon> do you guys have wall clocks?
17:38:56 <nakilon> at home
17:51:37 <kmc> i have an analog one, but the battery died a while ago so it's stuck on 4:57:10
17:54:43 <fizzie> I think what's up EU-wise is some talks about potential changes to daylight savings, like stopping doing it, or keeping it permanently on.
17:55:32 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_time_in_Europe#Future ends with "as of October 2020", I don't know if anything's happened since then.
18:02:17 <int-e> wtf, the thing has been lingering in the council of ministers since march 2019?
18:02:44 <int-e> I thought it was closer to the covid mess... so what's the excuse :-/
18:03:46 <kmc> mm bureaucracy
18:03:53 <fizzie> It's going to be kind of funny if NI ends up in a different time zone half the year than rest of Ireland.
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18:24:17 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81833&oldid=81832 * Leothetechguy * (+40)
18:27:50 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81834&oldid=81833 * Leothetechguy * (-2)
18:28:19 <zzo38> I don't have a clock on the wall, but I do have clocks with batteries, so that I can know what time it is if the power is off
18:28:24 <nakilon> "so it's stuck on 4:57:10" -- that's a weird time to stuck on
18:29:19 <zzo38> (When the power is off, the timer on the stove and microwave doesn't work, so I used the alarm hand on the clock to mark the beginning of some interval, and kept track of how many minutes have passed by using that.)
18:29:37 <nakilon> to save the light waste globally people should fight the stupid increasing of size and power of videocards
18:29:43 <zzo38> (Of course, that isn't what the alarm hand is for, but it will work.)
18:30:30 <nakilon> gamers don't realise they are already paying a ton for that stupid piece of metal just to be able to play some very badly made game
18:31:34 <zzo38> I prefer the older games without that many advanced graphics; the more advanced graphics are sometimes making it difficult to see what it is anyways, compared with simpler 2D graphics
18:31:46 <nakilon> that graphics is rarely really advanced
18:31:59 <nakilon> the RTX realtime illumination is such a fake
18:32:35 <zzo38> Yes, although many modern computer programs are too inefficient anyways, whether it is the graphics or something else
18:32:54 <nakilon> it all renders wrongly, all the lights and shadows are pointing in wrong directions, and updates with very very low resolution only a few times per second so the whole point of "realtime" is just a lie
18:33:16 <zzo38> Then it is really badly designed, I suppose
18:37:32 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81835&oldid=81834 * Leothetechguy * (-41)
18:40:10 <arseniiv> <nakilon> do you guys have wall clocks? => just a single one. I set it up when the battery dies but don’t use it as it’s too high and I don’t like analog clocks anyway. Though I glance at room temperature and humidity that same clock displays
18:40:50 <nakilon> temperature indicator is a cool thing
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18:44:01 <arseniiv> though I don’t think temp that high in the air is useful to know. Higher than my head level
18:45:45 <zzo38> I have temperature on the desk. But, why is there a gap in the red part of the temperature?
18:45:59 <zzo38> (I also have temperature in the computer.)
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18:51:23 <nakilon> what gap?
18:53:34 <zzo38> Therei s a gap. It is red, up to the number of the temperature, but there is a gap in it, rather than being solid red.
18:57:15 <arseniiv> aah I seem to understand
18:58:21 <arseniiv> my clock shows an arrow for the temp but zzo38’s is probably an old liquid column one, how’s it called
18:58:34 <arseniiv> I saw a hole in the column of several thermometers too
18:58:38 <arseniiv> a nuisanse
18:58:51 <arseniiv> you almost never are able to fix that :(
18:59:02 <arseniiv> how does it even appear
18:59:19 <nakilon> liquid is usually a red colored alcohol but I'm still not sure what you mean, nvm though
19:00:01 <arseniiv> may be even in mercury thermometers, though mercury is supposed to be at a very low pressure there, so no reason to not stick together
19:00:39 <arseniiv> nakilon: there is presumably a bubble in it which doesn’t, well, bubble up and away for some reason. At least in my cases that was so
19:01:05 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81836&oldid=81835 * Leothetechguy * (+51)
19:01:17 <arseniiv> (the reason is more or less clear, surface tension, but that doesn’t make things better)
19:03:11 <nakilon> like this? https://cooking.stackexchange.com/q/73870/85558
19:05:30 <zzo38> Yes, it is like that but the gap isn't that wide; it is a narrow gap
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19:39:46 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81837&oldid=81836 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
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20:01:14 <esowiki> [[THIS IS NOT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81838&oldid=81696 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Cat */ Cat[egory]
20:11:19 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81839&oldid=81804 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* N */ [[Nomad]]
20:12:17 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81840&oldid=81782 * Digital Hunter * (+412) /* Example programs */ added a look-and-say sequence program
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20:40:40 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81841&oldid=81837 * Leothetechguy * (-51)
20:41:11 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81842&oldid=81841 * Leothetechguy * (+9)
20:43:04 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81843&oldid=81842 * Leothetechguy * (-9)
20:45:24 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81844&oldid=81843 * Leothetechguy * (+80)
20:48:11 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81845&oldid=81844 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
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21:06:42 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81846&oldid=81845 * Leothetechguy * (+9)
21:13:17 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81847&oldid=81806 * A esolang user * (+1) I restore my terrible mistake of having put my introduction before that of [[User:ColorfulGalaxy|ColorfulGalaxy]]. Im sorry.
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21:16:19 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81848 * Icecream17 * (+227) Create template "AlgorithmStep"
21:25:34 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81849&oldid=81848 * Icecream17 * (-32) Use built-in numbered list
21:28:44 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81850&oldid=81849 * Icecream17 * (+28) Use another template
21:44:03 <zzo38> Recently I misspelled a URL in a message on Usenet, and I did not notice until after I posted the message, so to fix it I added a symlink.
21:45:25 <zzo38> (I don't know who else has done a similar thing.)
21:47:09 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81851 * Icecream17 * (+317) Create template "Variable"
21:48:50 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81852&oldid=81850 * Icecream17 * (+1) Oops forgot
21:49:37 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81853&oldid=81852 * Icecream17 * (-40) Move ismethod to variable
21:50:59 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81854 * Icecream17 * (+29) Created page with "{{User:Icecream17/Algorithm}}"
21:52:44 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81855&oldid=81854 * Icecream17 * (+44)
21:53:34 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81856&oldid=81851 * Icecream17 * (+86)
21:56:50 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81857&oldid=81853 * Icecream17 * (+1)
22:02:08 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81858&oldid=81857 * Icecream17 * (+39) param argument
22:02:52 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81859&oldid=81856 * Icecream17 * (+1)
22:04:22 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81860&oldid=81855 * Icecream17 * (+422) Add algorithms
22:27:50 <arcsor6> what was the usenet post. i haven't seen posts from you on there for some time. What newsgroups are you frequenting now?
22:28:35 <zzo38> rec.arts.int-fiction is the newsgroup that I posted it to; the message ID is <1617220312.bystand@zzo38computer.org>
22:29:45 <zzo38> I don't post a lot of messages, but sometimes I do.
22:43:57 <nakilon> what do you mean by "similar thing"? I guess redirecting in wiki is similar
22:45:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alone * New user account
22:46:24 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_misspellings
22:50:00 <nakilon> heh, once here I mentioned I can't remember how to spell 'necessary'
22:50:17 <nakilon> it appeared to be on this list https://www.lexico.com/grammar/common-misspellings
23:02:32 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81861 * Icecream17 * (+49) Created page with "<span style="font-family:Cambria">{{{0|}}}</span>"
23:03:54 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81862&oldid=81861 * Icecream17 * (+0) ?
23:11:38 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81863&oldid=81862 * Icecream17 * (-6)
23:13:29 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81864&oldid=81863 * Icecream17 * (+17)
23:13:31 <zzo38> Yes, that is also a similar thing
23:13:48 <zzo38> (although, it is a bit different thing)
23:18:47 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81865&oldid=81864 * Icecream17 * (+4) ugh tables cant be in paragraphs
23:24:55 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81866&oldid=81865 * Icecream17 * (+1) adjust font size
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23:30:34 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Sans Serif]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81867 * Icecream17 * (+53) Created page with "<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">{{{1|}}}</span>"
23:32:19 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Icecream17 * moved [[User:Icecream17/Sans Serif]] to [[User:Icecream17/Sans serif]]: Oops wrong capitalization
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00:09:48 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar Explanation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81870 * Icecream17 * (+3999) took too long to make
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00:39:09 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81871&oldid=81858 * Icecream17 * (+26) skipsteps option
00:41:49 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81872&oldid=81871 * Icecream17 * (+64) description
00:42:32 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81873&oldid=81872 * Icecream17 * (-3) formatting
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02:11:18 <zzo38> Will they add a "tail-only" calling convention into LLVM?
02:27:43 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar Explanation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81874&oldid=81870 * Icecream17 * (+1103) more explanation
02:37:52 <zzo38> (There is a tail calling convention, but not a tail only calling convention, it look like)
03:21:37 <esowiki> [[Semeler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81875 * Icecream17 * (+3402) draft
03:25:19 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable/doc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81876 * Icecream17 * (+1923) documentation
03:35:26 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/documentation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81877 * Icecream17 * (+546) create documentation template
03:36:23 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81878&oldid=81859 * Icecream17 * (+329) add documentation
03:40:35 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable/doc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81879&oldid=81876 * Icecream17 * (+546) addd nothing
03:44:46 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/documentation/doc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81880 * Icecream17 * (+313) documentation documentation
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08:10:42 <esowiki> [[D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81881&oldid=81466 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+433) Added Project Euler Problem 1 code based on Fizzbuzz
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09:45:14 <b_jonas> "do you guys have wall clocks" => no, I hate those. my relatives have wall clocks, and they show the wrong time all the time. what's even the point of having a clock if you don't set it to the correct time? and many of them emit a loud clicking noise every second, and are analog with two or three dials that makes it hard to read.
09:46:22 <myname> on that topic, i hate people who have clocks set to the wrong time intentionally because they just aren't able to leave the house 5 minutes earlier
09:46:32 <b_jonas> I have a cheap battery-powered digital LCD clock that's usually at my desk next to a digital thermometer, but sometimes I carry it to the kitchen to use as a kitchen timer, plus the digital LED clock built into the oven, plus my mobile phone and the desktop computer as clocks. all these I do set to the correct time.
09:46:41 <b_jonas> no analog clocks and nothing that gives clicky noises.
09:51:10 <b_jonas> nakilon: ^
09:52:50 <b_jonas> myname: my relatives don't do that, but they bought this stupid radio clock that supposedly sets itself to the correct time automatically, but then it went wrong (a dial miscalibrated itself) so now it consistently sets itself to the wrong time (you know what Douglas Adams says about things that can't break) yet they still keep it on the wall. at least that only annoys me when I am at their home,
09:53:21 <b_jonas> unlike when they refused to throw away the electric kettle whose mechanism to stop heating when the water boils went wrong and so never turned off.
09:53:38 <myname> ew
09:54:15 <b_jonas> plus they never set the clock in the car, so that shows the wrong time too
09:54:43 <myname> i know people that liked the idea of one clock of the discworld universe so much, they built something similar. it ticks irregularly, but still shows (roughly) the correct time
09:55:17 <b_jonas> myname: I think that's the Dune universe, not the Discworld universe. it's for not attracting sandworms.
09:56:13 <myname> https://roryokane.github.io/vetinari-clock-simulator/
10:01:05 <b_jonas> I guess I should be glad the car is not one of those from a few decades ahead in the US, the ones that are controlled by a computer connected to the internet so anyone can remotely make your car misbehave
10:02:12 <nakilon> maybe kettle can be fixed
10:02:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Records-hasse.png]]"
10:08:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Types-hasse.png]]"
10:13:38 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Record-union-hasse.png]]"
10:13:46 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81885&oldid=81810 * SCKelemen * (+622)
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12:31:11 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81886&oldid=81885 * SCKelemen * (+60) Add appropriate categories
12:32:31 <nakilon> lmao
12:33:07 <nakilon> gave one guy a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8igrh1eyLk
12:33:36 <nakilon> he says "what do the say? I can't English"
12:33:46 <nakilon> I say "don't you remember the movie plot?"
12:33:50 <nakilon> "I didn't see it"
12:34:10 <nakilon> he really thinks it's some Jimm Carrey movie that he hasn't seen
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12:48:23 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81887&oldid=81647 * Heavpoot * (+17) fix minor typo
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13:02:50 <esowiki> [[41943040000000000000000000000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81888 * Heavpoot * (+190) Created page with "[[41943040000000000000000000000]] will be an [[esolang]] and will be made during 2022 indisputably. 41943040000000000000000000000 is (to be) a [[Macron|very real esolang]]. ..."
13:03:06 <esowiki> [[Category:2022]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81889 * Heavpoot * (+11) Created page with "{{Yearcat}}"
13:05:30 <fizzie> Doubling down on it, I see.
13:07:33 <fizzie> I don't know what (if anything) we should do about that.
13:07:55 <esowiki> [[User:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81890&oldid=81229 * Heavpoot * (+11)
13:11:17 <fizzie> (The so-called "fix minor typo" edit is again adding that nonsense 2026 category that was reverted three times.)
13:19:05 <esowiki> [[TwoFiftyFive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81891&oldid=73252 * Heavpoot * (+32)
13:21:59 <nakilon> he's already in Category:Years, lol
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13:33:49 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81892&oldid=81887 * Int-e * (-17) Fix minor typo. Isn't this fun?
13:34:56 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81893&oldid=81892 * Heavpoot * (+17) oops, you accidentally hit "backspace" instead of "ctrl+c ctrl+v ctrl+v (select previous 2 words) ctrl+c ctrl+v ctrl+v". but don't worry, i'll fix it partially for you!
13:37:23 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81894&oldid=81893 * Int-e * (+0) Did you know that 2021 = 43*47? Seriously though, please stop this nonsense.
13:42:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81895&oldid=81605 * Heavpoot * (+282)
13:43:18 <int-e> I'm happy that the problem has been identified so clearly.
13:44:00 <int-e> > 20^22
13:44:03 <lambdabot> 41943040000000000000000000000
13:44:41 <int-e> I guess that explains that name, at least.
13:45:37 <nakilon> that's the only explain thing I see here so far
13:45:40 <nakilon> *explained
13:47:34 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81896&oldid=81894 * Heavpoot * (+0) fine. updated to reflect actual date of creation. "2021" is not substantially substantiated by substantial evidence.
13:48:53 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81897&oldid=81895 * Fizzie * (+475) /* 2026 denial propaganda */ ...
13:51:10 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81898&oldid=81897 * Heavpoot * (+16)
13:51:21 <int-e> Oh, 2007 now?
13:52:18 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+7075) Create page
13:53:06 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81900&oldid=81839 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+16) /* S */ +[[Suptiftam]]
13:54:17 <nakilon> Program structure
13:54:17 <nakilon> A Grasp program consists of a set of nodes.
13:54:19 <int-e> (Though I guess I don't mind it joining the 2007 crowd. It's far less obstrusive than making a language appear in its own bogus category.)
13:54:29 <nakilon> lol, I read as "consists of a set of nudes."
13:57:22 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81901&oldid=81235 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Languages */ +[[Suptiftam]]
13:59:57 <esowiki> [[User talk:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81902&oldid=81555 * Heavpoot * (+5552) [[User:Truttle1|Truttle1]] ([[User talk:Truttle1|talk]])
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14:07:22 <int-e> Ah, "obtrusive"... I finally realized why that word looked so wrong.
14:08:24 <int-e> I mixed in a bit of "obstructive", maybe I can pretent it was a portmanteau...
14:08:41 <int-e> But given the number of other typos I'm making these days...
14:09:49 <nakilon> I believe is there was a " TwilightSparkle" user it's Heavypot
14:10:05 <nakilon> *if there
14:10:26 <nakilon> see Sept 7 2020 message here https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:SunnyMoon
14:11:21 <nakilon> and the " 09:54, 21 July 2020 (UTC)" on the Introduce yourself
14:18:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81903&oldid=81902 * Heavpoot * (-28169) __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ <div style="max-width: 60.5em; padding: 1.25em; padding-bottom: 0; float: left"> <h1 style="font-size: 1.75em; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0.714em; padding: 0; border-bottom: 0; overflow: visible">Welcome to '''Esolang''', the [[esoteric
14:23:05 <fizzie> IDGI
14:27:57 <esowiki> [[User:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81904&oldid=81890 * Heavpoot * (+197)
14:32:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:Zirconium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81905&oldid=81706 * RocketRace * (+166)
14:34:55 <esowiki> [[Zirconium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81906&oldid=77797 * RocketRace * (-62) Fix the incorrect 0@0 code pattern
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14:42:47 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81907&oldid=81847 * RocketRace * (-66) remove deadname
14:44:07 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81908&oldid=81899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) /* Cat program */ Fix
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15:21:48 <esowiki> [[Excela]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81909&oldid=61935 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+85) /* External resources */ Add link
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16:05:43 <b_jonas> nakilon: we live in the 21st century among cheap consumer goods. it's cheaper to buy a new kettle than to try to fix a security bug in one. but sure, if my father intended to fix it, that would have been fine. but they didn't.
16:12:55 <nakilon> that's the consumerism lvl 80
16:13:32 <nakilon> moving some metal thing that got shifted inside the kettle because of some vibration does not cost more than buy a new one
16:15:03 <nakilon> multibillionairs are just allowing you to temporary posess some extra money to spend them so irrationally to make an illusion that they made the money in a rational and fair way
16:15:03 <b_jonas> nakilon: metal? only the heating element is metal. most of it is plastic.
16:15:17 <b_jonas> oh, you mean the tiny electronics thing?
16:15:24 <b_jonas> yes, that might be metal, but just barely
16:16:00 <b_jonas> and yes, it's consumerism. if you want tea cheaply, go and keep cleaning your municipal gas oven.
16:16:15 <nakilon> there is some stuff in there with different temperature expansion coefficients that when it gets hot the metal contact is making a contact
16:16:55 <b_jonas> that's the way these cheap electric kettles usually die. mine lasted for five years. it's a bit sad, I wish they died the opposite way, with the heat sensor shutting it down instead of keeping it on, but it's the second one that did this so it looks likea trend.
16:17:03 <nakilon> consumerism is an illness
16:17:32 <nakilon> I saw on youtube how some american sold his lawn mower just because it ran out of fuel
16:17:43 <b_jonas> different temperature expansion coefficients? possible, but I think they only do that in gas heaters that must work safely without electricity. I think the electronic ones just use a resistive temperature element and a relay
16:17:57 <nakilon> dude bought it for $20 or something, filled it with a fuel and sold for $100
16:18:26 <b_jonas> oh come on, if you want to find extreme examples of stupidity, you can always look on the internet. that doesn't mean that the typical person is that stupid
16:18:38 <nakilon> because consumerism made that guy so stupid he can't refule his lawn mower and assumes "it's broken, meh, I'll buy a new one"
16:19:10 <b_jonas> but I'm not an electrician, I'm not going to repair an unsafe high voltage appliance and possibly shock myself or make it even more unsafe, when it's a just cheap kettle that served for five years.
16:19:12 <nakilon> idk
16:19:34 <nakilon> I'm not saying every person should fix thing himself
16:20:01 <b_jonas> my father might be qualified, but I don't think even he would want to touch these, because these aren't consumer-repairable, the plastic can't be safely opened and closed.
16:20:07 <nakilon> I would give it my friend electrician and he would fix it for a cup of tea
16:20:38 <nakilon> it must have a screw
16:21:16 <b_jonas> I do exactly one sort of self-repair on these: clean the hard water chalk from it, from the main body with citric acid (vinegar works too but I dislike it), and from the filter by mechanical means
16:21:22 <nakilon> my plastic electric teapot has 10 screw on the bottom, just checked
16:21:54 <b_jonas> aren't those screws for replacing the cable to the mains electricity?
16:22:00 <b_jonas> that might be something you can do at home
16:22:19 <b_jonas> or can you fix the temperature shutdown with those too?
16:22:24 <nakilon> I make tea out of Bonaqua water that is the only here available that's isn't hard enough so the chalk^W salt does not appear in it at all
16:23:04 <b_jonas> I did have the broken thermal element fixed in the gas convector heater, because that one costs much more than an electric kettle and would be much more of a hassle to replace, while repairing it isn't too bad
16:23:29 <nakilon> the only thing that can't be disassempled are stupid apple devices, lol
16:23:47 <b_jonas> of course, everything can be disassembled. the hard part is assembling it afterwards.
16:23:59 <nakilon> true
16:24:21 <b_jonas> and in this case it's a high voltage appliance that you use in the kitchen with water, so you have to be careful, you can cause more damage if you assemble it wrong
16:25:09 <b_jonas> (the gas heater is even worse, that one I'm officially not even allowed to touch unless I'm formally qualified; for the kettle you only have to be practically qualified)
16:25:53 <nakilon> there should be qualifications to touch the code
16:27:03 <b_jonas> what "code"?
16:27:04 <b_jonas> software?
16:27:35 <nakilon> yep, legal prohibition of your employees to touch specific parts of it
16:28:04 <b_jonas> no, anyone can touch software, the dayjob company just might not accept contributions from anyone, or not give the sourcecode to anyone, but it requires no formal qualification, just normal judgement of who we employ and how much we trust our employees
16:28:39 <nakilon> by touching I mean applying the edits
16:28:45 <b_jonas> formal qualification is required for doctors, lawyers, and gas repairmen. that's about it.
16:29:06 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, anyone can do that to their own computer. even if they do stupid things like add security bugs. and I will stand up for their rights to do that.
16:29:11 <b_jonas> that doesn't mean I'll run their code.
16:29:32 <b_jonas> or use electric kettles that they have repaired
16:29:39 <nakilon> for example, a HTTL/CSS guy touched PHP server configs and has exposed the access tokens of thousands of users to everyone -- he should pay for this
16:31:33 <nakilon> it's the same if he went to the office kitchen and got into the teapot and made it risky to use since then
16:31:36 <b_jonas> no, we employers are protected about this, the employer usually can't punish us for mere incompetence, and can't make us pay damages for them. they also need not allow us to modify code on their servers of course.
16:32:02 <nakilon> that's a myth
16:33:03 <b_jonas> we also wouldn't allow most employees to repair the electric kettle
16:33:09 <nakilon> an average HTML/CSS is always a friend of CTO and/or CEO and so is allowed to touch any piece of code and launch any programs
16:33:29 <nakilon> yeah yeah they say the same
16:33:30 <b_jonas> nakilon: no, because our CEOs aren't *stupid*
16:33:41 <nakilon> they say this too
16:33:57 <b_jonas> no, I know the CEOs in person. this is a small company
16:34:05 <nakilon> this is why laws were invented thousands of years ago
16:34:12 <nakilon> because the "we aren't stupid" is a lie
16:35:29 <nakilon> IT is just mature enough for people to realise they should make laws that if you touch the code you don't have to touch you must pay and not blame someone in that he allowed you to do it -- that's a separate fault
16:35:37 <nakilon> *isn't mature
16:36:37 <b_jonas> ok, I'll stop because this won't be a productive conversation
16:39:01 <nakilon> I worked in companies of sizes 8, 12, 20, 100, 2000, 5000, 30000 -- adequate CEOs were only in 100 and 5000, adequate CTOs only in 20 and 5000
16:39:05 <nakilon> it's just a business
16:39:50 <nakilon> don't believe in myths, the software industry is crap, it has no regulations and no mandatory qualification checks
16:55:47 <arseniiv> finally a 90s radio with the rest of the music I vaguely remember from the dark days my consciousness was forming. You wouldn’t believe how hard a coupon collector’s problem it is to tie all the ends, though all of them is not a priority — simply just when I hear something I think I heard earlier I’m a little happier and a little more surprised: “still haven’t been found earlier?!” Though there are real mysteries out there
16:55:48 <arseniiv> which are probably from 00s, like some Japanese-sounding thing with weird harmony, but slow (so probably no J-pop? 120bpm but slow in the way melodic phrases were built) and I hadn’t presence of mind to record that excerpt. A car driven away from my window, forever. *That one* is real rosebud, and probably I won’t hear that song again ever
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17:38:55 <zzo38> {?} Instant ;; Target permanent gains protection from everything until end of turn. ;; Cycling {2}
17:39:26 <zzo38> Shadowmonger {3B} Creature - Shade Monger (2/3) ;; {2}: Target creature gains shadow until end of turn. Any player can use this ability.
17:42:37 <nakilon> is this helloworld?
17:47:35 <zzo38> These are Magic: the Gathering
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17:50:03 <nakilon> oh I thought it's ur esoteric lang
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18:28:20 <nakilon> arseniiv 21:27:22 -NickServ- EMAILMEMOS Forwards incoming memos to your e-mail address.
18:28:36 <nakilon> nickserv can email you memos
18:28:39 <nakilon> TIL
18:29:12 <arseniiv> nakilon: interesting :)
18:29:51 <arseniiv> (though I rarely check mail so that would be currently of little use to me)
18:36:03 <nakilon> email isn't supposed to be read insteneously
18:36:07 <nakilon> *a
18:36:19 <nakilon> oh that's a hard word
18:39:53 <zzo38> I have a message indicator in the system status line, so that if I am at the computer, I can see if there is a email message waiting.
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19:32:14 <nakilon> I opened all the service that I "have to check sometimes" as pinned tabs in one window and try to teach myself to browser them only in order from right to left so it's like a priority, like "you better check email than skype"
19:32:26 <nakilon> not sure if it works for me though but I'm trying
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19:47:46 <esowiki> [[GORBITSA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81910&oldid=78312 * ZippyMagician * (+35) Add OM and ONN to nonstandard list
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20:07:42 <esowiki> [[Length]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81911&oldid=81318 * Nailuj29 * (+445) 4 new instructions
20:22:47 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81912&oldid=81908 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* Variable declaration */ Wording
20:33:59 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81913&oldid=81758 * EnilKoder * (+19) added Primer Post Braces to the comment
20:35:49 <b_jonas> `ftoc 500
20:35:51 <HackEso> 500.00°F = 260.00°C
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22:30:44 <b_jonas> > take 80 ("b" ++ cycle "an")
22:30:46 <lambdabot> "bananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananan...
22:31:42 <fizzie> List price: $NaN.aN
22:34:38 <zzo38> My idea about playing a card game with separate decks by computer with a trusted third party who does not know anything about the game, but provides data at regular or nearly regular intervals, which is unpredictable before it occurs. It has many requirements about the game being played, which means that many games are not suitable. It otherwise works with hashes and block chain (which need not be known by anyone other than the players)
22:59:40 <b_jonas> hehe
23:06:47 <fizzie> I faintly remember stock prices being used for a purpose like that for a game. Oh, wait, I'm just thinking about xkcd's geohashing.
23:08:52 <b_jonas> does this channel have a bot more trusted than HackEso who can give us random numbers by the way?
23:09:20 <zzo38> I don't know. Does fungot have such a command?
23:09:39 <b_jonas> jevalbot can give random numbers\
23:09:45 <b_jonas> but I wouldn't trust him
23:10:04 <zzo38> Does lambdabot have such a command?
23:10:04 <b_jonas> and it uses a cryptograhpically non-secure random generator too
23:10:12 <b_jonas> lambdabot... probably?
23:10:15 <b_jonas> @plugins
23:10:16 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:10:17 <b_jonas> @list
23:10:18 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
23:10:24 <b_jonas> @listmodules
23:10:24 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
23:10:24 <lambdabot> seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
23:10:29 <b_jonas> @help dice
23:10:30 <lambdabot> @dice <expr>. Throw random dice. <expr> is of the form 3d6+2.
23:10:33 <b_jonas> @dice d4
23:10:33 <lambdabot> b_jonas: 3
23:10:37 <b_jonas> @dice 10d6
23:10:37 <lambdabot> b_jonas: 35
23:10:52 <b_jonas> @dice d-4
23:10:53 <lambdabot> unexpected "-": expecting number
23:10:55 <b_jonas> @dice d0
23:10:56 <lambdabot> unexpected end of input: expecting digit
23:12:05 <b_jonas> ^help
23:12:05 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
23:14:08 <zzo38> I suppose it doesn't have such thing as drop lowest and drop highest and cards etc
23:14:37 <b_jonas> @list dice
23:14:38 <lambdabot> dice provides: dice roll
23:14:44 <b_jonas> @roll d100
23:14:44 <lambdabot> b_jonas: 41
23:14:59 <zzo38> Do you know what random number generation is used?
23:15:03 <b_jonas> I don't know
23:15:06 <b_jonas> @source
23:15:07 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:15:09 <b_jonas> hmm
23:36:59 <fizzie> You can get one random bit out of fungot.
23:36:59 <fungot> fizzie: seems so.
23:37:02 <fizzie> ^bool
23:37:02 <fungot> Yes.
23:37:09 <fizzie> Well, one bit at a time, that is.
23:39:55 <fizzie> That's from cfunge's implementation of the Befunge '?' instruction, which I'm not 100% sure where it's from. Looks like it's either from the srandom/random pair of functions, or arc4random where available.
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01:30:54 <esowiki> [[User talk:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81914&oldid=81903 * Truttle1 * (+383)
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03:12:57 <ReddyAlice> hi
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05:00:23 <zzo38> Do you like goto sigil and gosub sigil?
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06:02:46 <esowiki> [[PDA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81915&oldid=81692 * Largejamie * (+4620)
06:05:51 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81916&oldid=81702 * Largejamie * (+302)
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08:27:58 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81917&oldid=81896 * CatIsFluffy * (+34) Let's compromise
08:31:12 <esowiki> [[Caballo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81918&oldid=80335 * CatIsFluffy * (+0) /* Conditional */
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12:34:19 <Grego> wiki wiki
12:34:21 <Grego> ajam
12:34:23 <Grego> wiki wiki
12:34:24 <Grego> haciendo
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15:20:26 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is hiding in plain sight.
15:20:26 <int-e> (A bit late for Easter, but here we go)
15:20:30 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is hiding in plain sight.
15:22:02 <fizzie> Oh no, someone else got involved in the 2026 fiasco.
15:23:39 <int-e> sigh
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15:36:36 <int-e> Trajedy is 4 years (and a month and a few days) old.
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16:39:24 <esowiki> [[/ggu/]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81919&oldid=78996 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Commands */ s/rn/nr/g
17:11:51 <esowiki> [[User:Mario]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81920&oldid=81150 * Mario * (+46)
17:16:56 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81921&oldid=81900 * Mario * (+15) added self%ify
17:18:46 <esowiki> [[Third Party Contractor Accused Of A Robbery]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81922&oldid=81221 * Mario * (+3)
17:22:52 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81923&oldid=81921 * Mario * (+50) added third party contractor accused of a robbery
17:25:33 <esowiki> [[Self%ify]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81924&oldid=81139 * Mario * (+86)
17:43:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AarMil42 * New user account
17:51:43 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81925&oldid=81907 * AarMil42 * (+395) Introduced myself
17:55:19 <zzo38> Do any version control systems have a partial clone function? The format of fossil should support this, although I think the implementation does not, and the existing implementation might get confused if you have a partial clone.
18:03:57 <shachaf> What sort of partial clone?
18:04:14 <zzo38> To clone just one version or a few versions rather than all versions of the code.
18:08:47 <shachaf> Ah. git has something called a "shallow clone" which might do some of what you want.
18:09:01 <shachaf> I think some hg people do fancier things than that.
18:09:11 <zzo38> What fancier things?
18:26:34 <arcsor5> zzo38 how many esolangs have you made?
18:26:41 <zzo38> I don't know.
18:26:58 <arcsor5> im assuming more than 1 then?
18:27:04 <zzo38> Yes.
18:46:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: svn has something like that, but not quite
18:46:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: you can make partial read-only mirrors of a repository
18:47:11 <b_jonas> but you can't really have two repositories such that you can write to either one
18:48:05 <b_jonas> git can't make partial clones, and I believe this is just a client limitation, the server that you clone from can send you just selected objects
18:48:22 <b_jonas> it's not an easy one to solve though
19:10:31 <fizzie> Depends on what you mean by "partial".
19:10:41 <fizzie> It can definitely do shallow clones, as shachaf mentioned.
19:10:54 <fizzie> And that's a reasonable reading of "just one version or a few versions".
19:13:35 <fizzie> Mercurial's (optional but bundled?) "narrow" extension can slice in the other direction, too; i.e., only check out specific directories.
19:14:44 <fizzie> For shallow clones on git, see the --depth, --shallow-since and --shallow-exclude flags.
19:18:06 <fizzie> (IIRC, both Chromium and AOSP support doing a no-history clone as a more or less standard practice, through their dedicated wrappers ('repo', 'fetch'), presumably because they're so ridiculously large.)
19:19:06 <zzo38> With fossil it would also be possible to ask the server for only some artifacts, although you would have to know the hash of the manifest that you want; the hashes of the files can then be found after downloading the manifest. However, the implementation does not have this capability, and it might also get confused if the previous version if not available (and propagating tags may be lost).
19:20:56 <zzo38> If you don't care about the repository but only want to download a specific version, the same method can be used.
19:25:59 <zzo38> Fossil has the ability for the server to create a ZIP archive or tape archive so that you can download it, but it is sometimes disabled due to system load, and alternative implementations might not have this function.
19:27:39 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81926&oldid=81846 * Leothetechguy * (-50)
19:30:06 <zzo38> The manifest will always mention all of the files though, even if you do not download some of them (in which case you cannot verify that the R card is correct).
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19:57:01 <esowiki> [[Third Party Contractor Accused Of A Robbery]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81927&oldid=81922 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+29) Turning tarpits
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20:12:33 <esowiki> [[WALP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81928&oldid=67500 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17) /* Programming in WALP */ Fix explanation after ~1 year
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23:25:42 <esowiki> [[Airline food]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81929 * Largejamie * (+4496) Created page with "'''Airline food''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Largejamie]] in April 2021 whose programs are supposed to look like Jerry Seinfeld's stand-up. ==..."
23:28:03 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81930&oldid=81916 * Largejamie * (+1186)
23:30:11 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81931&oldid=81703 * Largejamie * (+380) /* AF */
23:30:33 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81932&oldid=81931 * Largejamie * (-1) /* Airline Food] */
23:30:53 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81933&oldid=81932 * Largejamie * (+0) /* Airline Food */
23:56:09 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81934&oldid=81923 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* A */ [[Airline food]]
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01:21:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Timwi * uploaded "[[File:Efghij CHUNKY function.jpg]]": Uploading on behalf of [[User:BakersDozenBagels]]
01:21:58 <esowiki> [[Efghij]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81936&oldid=80132 * Timwi * (+9) /* Example: CHUNKY (integer division function) */
01:22:15 <esowiki> [[Efghij]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81937&oldid=81936 * Timwi * (+2) /* Example: CHUNKY (integer division function) */
01:36:05 <esowiki> [[Efghij]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81938&oldid=81937 * BakersDozenBagels * (-3) Fixed CHUNKY backronym.
02:04:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: I usually want to be able to clone just some of the files. ideally some revisions of some files.
02:04:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: oh, Mercurial can do partial clones? including pushing back to another repository from a partial clone?
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02:36:57 <zzo38> The format of fossil would also support this, although the implementation doesn't. However, if you want to commit unchanged files that you don't have, then you will not be able to calculate the R card; that is not a problem though, since the R card is optional.
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04:52:26 <LoganDark> ugh I am dying right now I am trying to find the name of a language that looks like this "({}{}{})({({}{})}){}" or something, I swear it was called like clusterfuck or cloisterfuck or something but I CAN'T FIND IT and it's driving me absolutely insane
04:54:58 <LoganDark> does anyone know what it's called?
04:59:00 <LoganDark> it uses parenthesis and curly braces only, and all of them must be matching
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07:38:58 <zzo38> I remember seeing such a thing I think, but I also don't know what it is called
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09:53:12 <fizzie> b_jonas: With an extension (hgext.narrow), yes. Also, I don't know how sort of stable/maintained it is, can't seem to find much by the way of documentation. But at least the code is still there: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/repo/hg/file/tip/hgext/narrow
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10:35:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KatzenTatzenTanz * New user account
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12:31:03 <esowiki> [[W-INTERCAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81939&oldid=49138 * CMinusMinus * (+396) Added link for INTERCAL and fixed source code
12:46:58 <esowiki> [[User:CMinusMinus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81940&oldid=77817 * CMinusMinus * (-105)
12:48:10 <esowiki> [[User:CMinusMinus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81941&oldid=81940 * CMinusMinus * (+18)
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12:52:20 <esowiki> [[Kill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81942&oldid=73688 * CMinusMinus * (-75)
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13:20:52 <b_jonas> fizzie: thanks
13:51:55 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81943&oldid=81886 * SCKelemen * (+24) complete fragment
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14:54:20 <esowiki> [[Talk:ND]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81944&oldid=61899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+289) /* 3D */ Add an idea
14:57:18 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81945&oldid=81943 * SCKelemen * (+10) fix format
14:57:41 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81946&oldid=81945 * SCKelemen * (-13) /* Pipelines */
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15:07:49 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81947&oldid=81946 * SCKelemen * (+53)
15:35:47 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81948&oldid=81947 * SCKelemen * (+24)
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16:10:05 <esowiki> [[Talk:RUBE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81949&oldid=33698 * Odog8 * (+190) asking question in talk
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20:34:05 <zzo38> Can the speed of hashcash be improved by saving some of the intermediate results from the middle of the hashing calculation? Are there ways to skip some possibilities thatare unlikely to work, after a partial calculation? You will only have to calculate the first few bits of the hash, so maybe this can also improve the speed?
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20:39:25 <int-e> hashcat? No, I don't think so... there are some tricks to save computations at the beginning and at the end of the hash computation if most of the hashed block's content remains unchanged.
20:39:57 <int-e> It depends on the hash... I've seen it for md5.
20:41:09 <kmc> is this why bitcoin uses double hashing?
20:43:51 <b_jonas> kmc: no, I think that's the same as for HMACs, because those old hashes have a vulnerability involving two strings one of which is a suffix of the other
20:44:09 <esowiki> [[User:FizzyApple12]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81950&oldid=58944 * FizzyApple12 * (-48) Made it more accurate and updated links
20:45:46 <esowiki> [[User:FizzyApple12]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81951&oldid=81950 * FizzyApple12 * (-17) more updates
20:50:24 <esowiki> [[Macron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81952&oldid=81917 * Int-e * (+0) categories. sigh.
20:55:04 <zzo38> Hashcash does keep most of the contents of the same, I think.
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21:20:28 <zzo38> Fossil appends the MD5 hash to the end of the deck before computing the SHA-1 hash. In this case it is only used to verify that it is valid, but is it useful for any security purposes?
21:36:43 <esowiki> [[User:FizzyApple12]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81953&oldid=81951 * FizzyApple12 * (-121) replaced with moderator note
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21:41:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: that might be for backwards compatibility to old versions of fossil perhaps
21:42:08 <zzo38> No, it isn't.
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23:36:01 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81954 * Zero player rodent * (+2808) Created page with "'''Among Us''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Zero player rodent]]. It is based on the popular game known as Among Us. The programs consist of colou..."
23:39:29 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81955&oldid=81954 * Zero player rodent * (-23)
23:39:57 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81956&oldid=81291 * Zero player rodent * (+48)
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23:49:11 <esowiki> [[User:Zero player rodent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81957&oldid=81170 * Zero player rodent * (+64)
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00:12:19 <esowiki> [[Semeler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81958&oldid=81875 * Icecream17 * (+2388) sigh
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04:42:09 <lyncid[m]> LoganDark: (maybe you read logs) I believe that language could be brain-flak?
04:42:59 <lyncid[m]> oh wait yours contains only parens and curly braces, so probably not. i believe there was a more minimal version of brain-flak called mini-flak, but i think that still had 3 types of braces
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04:58:47 <zzo38> I wrote a part of the document describing my ideas for a card game with separate decks using cryptography. It is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/separate_deck_crypto This document is incomplete; I will write more another day. (Maybe you can guess some of the rest of it, but maybe not. Maybe you also have ideas for improvement, too.)
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05:17:13 <zzo38> I also have a idea of a tarot game where the trumps score according to the letters in the roman numbers, where "I" is worth +1, "X" is worth -2, and "V" is worth nothing. (There can be other things that give you points too, e.g. the last trick might give you some bonus points, nontrumps might affect scoring, and there may also be bidding similar to bridge but you don't specify the trump suit (in tarot, there are permanent trumps).)
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09:13:42 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81959&oldid=81948 * SCKelemen * (-72) /* Hello World */
09:15:30 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81960&oldid=81959 * SCKelemen * (+0)
09:16:03 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81961&oldid=81960 * SCKelemen * (-41) /* Records */
09:16:29 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81962&oldid=81961 * SCKelemen * (-2) /* Unions and Intersections */
09:17:38 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81963&oldid=81962 * SCKelemen * (-5) /* Etymology */
09:27:45 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81964&oldid=81963 * SCKelemen * (+852) /* Type System */
09:45:09 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81965&oldid=81964 * SCKelemen * (+318) /* Features */
09:54:22 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81966&oldid=81965 * SCKelemen * (+26)
10:09:02 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81967&oldid=81966 * SCKelemen * (+490)
10:34:04 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81968&oldid=81967 * SCKelemen * (+183)
10:35:29 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81969&oldid=81968 * SCKelemen * (-6) /* History */
10:36:19 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81970&oldid=81969 * SCKelemen * (+1) /* Pattern Matching */
10:37:02 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81971&oldid=81970 * SCKelemen * (-4) /* Pattern Matching */
10:54:28 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81972&oldid=81971 * SCKelemen * (+182)
10:54:54 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81973&oldid=81972 * SCKelemen * (+1) /* Grammar */
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11:23:24 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81974&oldid=81973 * SCKelemen * (+76)
11:23:45 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81975&oldid=81974 * SCKelemen * (+2) /* Grammar */
11:28:33 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81976&oldid=81975 * SCKelemen * (+62) /* Grammar */
11:32:33 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81977&oldid=81976 * SCKelemen * (-4)
11:34:35 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81978&oldid=81977 * SCKelemen * (-4) /* Pattern Matching */
11:35:38 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81979&oldid=81978 * SCKelemen * (+0) /* Records */
11:50:17 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81980&oldid=81979 * SCKelemen * (+260) Add card example
11:53:04 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81981&oldid=81980 * SCKelemen * (+3)
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12:13:47 <esowiki> [[Proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81982&oldid=73270 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* Setting variables */ Use pre tag
12:16:55 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81983&oldid=81981 * SCKelemen * (+2) /* Cards */
12:22:04 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81984&oldid=81983 * SCKelemen * (+69) /* Cards */
12:24:48 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81985&oldid=81984 * SCKelemen * (+29) /* Cards */
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12:52:41 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81986&oldid=81985 * SCKelemen * (-139)
13:18:11 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81987&oldid=81986 * SCKelemen * (+115) /* Examples */
13:21:29 <esowiki> [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81988&oldid=81938 * Timwi * (+10)
13:34:43 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81989&oldid=81987 * SCKelemen * (+327) /* Examples */
13:36:20 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81990&oldid=81989 * SCKelemen * (-1) /* Etymology */
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14:01:20 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81991&oldid=81990 * SCKelemen * (+156) /* Recursion */
14:05:54 <nakilon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEnklxGAmak
14:06:27 <nakilon> interesting stuff about human languages, genetics, (I'm on 13th minute yet)
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14:17:14 <nakilon> "90% of languages will disappear in the next century"
15:09:29 <esowiki> [[User:AarMil42]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81992 * AarMil42 * (+71) Created page with "Just a guy who's a fan of esolangs. ...Oh, and I made [[Grok]]."
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15:42:03 <nakilon> (the relevant stuff is in the 15 minutes, the rest is more about the schizophrenia))
15:42:11 <nakilon> *the first 15
15:46:07 <esowiki> [[Grok]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81993 * AarMil42 * (+1479) Created page with "Grok is a two-dimensional, [[Push-down_automaton|stack-based]] language inspired by Befunge, ><>, and the Vim editor. It was invented by [[User:AarMil42]] in 2021. ==Concepts..."
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15:50:37 <APic> Neuroses are red,
15:50:38 <APic> Melancholia's blue.
15:50:38 <APic> I'm schizophrenic,
15:50:38 <APic> What are you?
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18:01:19 <esowiki> [[Grok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81994&oldid=81993 * AarMil42 * (+8760) Finished the Grok Page
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18:19:33 <arseniiv> at least one of dynamically assigned IPs of my ISP is banned on Freenode :-\
18:32:36 <esowiki> [[O]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81995&oldid=46906 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* The sum of the cubes of a list from 1 to n */ Fix word ()
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19:21:27 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81996&oldid=81934 * AarMil42 * (+11) Added Grok
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20:19:54 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/Unordered set in Haskell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81997 * Hakerh400 * (+30461) Unordered set in Haskell
20:19:58 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81998&oldid=81805 * Hakerh400 * (+71) Unordered set in Haskell
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20:37:57 <b_jonas> hmm, this seems vaguely of the style of one of those languages that ais523 was working on https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=5402
20:43:28 <b_jonas> (see comments for how to extend the model to be more useful)
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20:54:03 <b_jonas> well, it is at least #esoteric-relevant
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22:10:02 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81999 * Hyperdawg * (+641) Created page with "IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI (I Honestly Can't Be Bothered To Write An Interpreter All By Myself So Everytime You Run A Command It Runs A Random Interpreter) is an interpreted esot..."
22:19:14 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82000&oldid=81999 * Hyperdawg * (+46) add nop program
22:19:33 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82001&oldid=82000 * Hyperdawg * (+5) /* Cat */
22:19:45 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82002&oldid=82001 * Hyperdawg * (+5) /* Hello World */
22:24:53 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82003&oldid=81459 * The-Ennemy * (+6667)
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22:37:00 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82004&oldid=82002 * Hyperdawg * (+70) /* Example Programs */
22:43:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hyperdawg * moved [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRARI]] to [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]]: name change
22:44:47 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82007&oldid=82005 * Hyperdawg * (+7)
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23:01:14 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82008&oldid=82003 * The-Ennemy * (+3839)
23:04:27 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82009&oldid=82008 * The-Ennemy * (+203) /* Jumps and control flow */
23:07:26 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82010&oldid=82009 * The-Ennemy * (+339) /* Jumps and control flow */
23:08:28 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82011&oldid=82010 * The-Ennemy * (+5) /* Virtual instructions */
23:09:20 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82012&oldid=82011 * The-Ennemy * (+70) /* Jumps and control flow */
23:11:31 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82013&oldid=82012 * The-Ennemy * (-117) /* Conditionals */
23:11:45 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82014&oldid=82013 * The-Ennemy * (+3) /* Conditionals */
23:18:49 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82015&oldid=82007 * Hyperdawg * (-1)
23:34:32 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82016&oldid=82015 * Hyperdawg * (-17) /* Nop */
23:34:43 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82017&oldid=82016 * Hyperdawg * (-18) /* Quit IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIWYT */
23:36:18 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82018&oldid=82017 * Hyperdawg * (+34)
23:53:27 <arseniiv> b_jonas: oh, a friend showed me that post too. I think I read about a similar train computation model (IIRC that was TC, or just powerful enough for this kind of models, because of latches which were allowed to be coupled together). Alas I don’t remember where I read about that or if it was a link from here all along
00:01:38 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82019&oldid=82018 * Hyperdawg * (+482)
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00:25:13 <b_jonas> arseniiv: the comments link to that
00:25:25 <b_jonas> with coupled track switches
00:26:02 <arseniiv> that’s good, then! I’m a bit sad when information is lost
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01:15:41 <esowiki> [[Abcout]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82020 * Sporeball * (+2042) create abcout page
01:19:15 <esowiki> [[User:Sporeball]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82021&oldid=68492 * Sporeball * (+48) add abcout to this
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01:37:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82022&oldid=81996 * Sporeball * (+13) add abcout to the language list
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02:49:44 <esowiki> [[User:Hyperdawg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82023&oldid=81667 * Hyperdawg * (+13)
02:50:43 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82024&oldid=82019 * Hyperdawg * (-463) /* Python */
02:51:29 <esowiki> [[IHCBBTWAIABMSEYRACIRWYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82025&oldid=82024 * Hyperdawg * (+39) /* Hello World */
03:22:37 <esowiki> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82026&oldid=81582 * Sporeball * (+100) add abcout to the list of OISCs
03:25:53 <oren> I have found a number for which the version of cosine in my complex.h
03:26:17 <oren> differs from the result i get from the x87 fcos instruction
03:27:57 <oren> 64.40000000000061675109 or 0x40501999999999c5 in hex
03:34:44 <shachaf> No one really uses the x87 instruction, right?
03:37:17 <oren> I expect they use some SSE thing by now
03:38:31 <kmc> fun
03:39:03 <kmc> i386 or amd64?
03:39:23 <kmc> iirc the amd64 ABI (at least on Linux) uses SSE registers for floats
03:39:35 <kmc> with the assumption that you're using SSE ops too
03:40:13 <pikhq> the amd64 ABI uses SSE registers for float and double but still x87 for long double
03:40:25 <oren> anyway, the complex.h one, when I step through it, appears to run the taylor series
03:40:32 <kmc> oh neat
03:40:36 <pikhq> (because long double is still an x87 80-bit float)
03:41:04 <kmc> how did x87 end up using 80 bits internally, anyway
03:42:22 <pikhq> design intent varied from how people actually used it, basically. the intent was that you'd do all intermediate computation in 80-bits, and then round when you were finally done to 64-bit or 32-bit
03:45:20 <pikhq> and x87 is _slightly_ odd as an FPU design overall -- as implemented in modern x86 it's IEEE-compliant, but x87 _predates_ IEEE floats
03:45:57 <pikhq> (the IEEE float standard is based on x87, not the other way around)
03:47:34 <kmc> i'm just wondering how they arrived at 80 bits specifically
03:48:02 <oren> double coscomplex(double x){return creal(cexp(I*x));}
03:48:07 <oren> double cosx87(double x){asm("fldl %1\n\tfcos\n\tfstpl %1":"+m"(x)::);return x;}
03:49:54 <kmc> was that for compatibility to an existing system
03:50:09 <kmc> or just deemed to be enough precision for intermediate calculations with a 64 bit result
03:50:54 <oren> I think it was probably a nice 10 byte round number. Also I think there was an existing 10 byte BCD format?
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03:51:53 <pikhq> i think it was the latter, kmc
03:52:04 <pikhq> aiui there was no pre-existing system they were compatible with
03:52:26 <pikhq> legacy float formats are... mind-bending nonsense, and not very ieee-reminiscent
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04:32:46 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9WyEfzWPg
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05:39:06 <zzo38> I don't like that Gemini protocol requires TLS; sometimes it is useful to have a non-TLS version. My suggestion is that the non-TLS version uses a different URI scheme, perhaps "insecure-gemini:" can be used. A non-proxy server that implements the non-TLS variant should treat the two URI schemes as equivalent. If a client certificate is requested, the client must switch to the secure protocol.
05:41:10 <zzo38> O, and about the trains; maybe write on esolang wiki something so that we can see how those models are working, and perhaps a syntax for computer codes with it
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10:32:19 <esowiki> [[User talk:Sporeball]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82027 * JonoCode9374 * (+6) Created page with "Frick."
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11:57:01 <esowiki> [[Seclusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82028&oldid=71198 * Hakerh400 * (+1822) Add TIO links
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13:21:57 <esowiki> [[User:Texenox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82029&oldid=42430 * Texenox * (-236) Replaced content with "no"
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13:22:58 <requestingdeleti> hi
13:23:22 <requestingdeleti> wasn't sure if there was a better place to ask in, but i was wondering if it were possible for an old account of mine on Esolangs to be deleted
13:23:54 <requestingdeleti> i've not used it in years and just leaving it to lie around there for so many years probably isn't very secure in the long run
13:25:01 <requestingdeleti> or is that not entirely doable because of MediaWiki?
13:40:48 <requestingdeleti> hello?
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13:45:40 <requestingdeleti> i guess in that case i might as well leave that account to rot and nothing else?
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14:02:55 <fizzie> Hmm.
14:03:11 <fizzie> Missed that by 15 minutes. But I don't know the answer either.
14:03:29 <fizzie> I imagine there's quite a lot of "inactive" accounts on the wiki, anyway.
14:04:17 <int-e> As long as it's easier to create a new account than it is to hack an old one...
14:04:20 <int-e> ...I wouldn't worry.
14:04:46 <int-e> admin accounts may be a different ball game
14:10:05 <esowiki> [[Birb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82030 * SCKelemen * (+1548) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Birb |website= |paradigms=functional |author= |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |typesys=untyped |memsys=stack-based |refimpl= |class=:Category:Turing c..."
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14:59:29 <b_jonas> I agree with int-e, there's not much point to remove the old account. I did remove admin rights from myself this year on a wiki that I'm no longer interested in,
15:00:22 <b_jonas> and I had my privilages removed from my perlmonks.com account last year (they have a policy to remove janitor privilage from people who aren't active janitors, but nothing like that for the lower privilages that I had).
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15:42:10 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82031&oldid=82022 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+11) /* B */ [[Birb]]
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16:40:55 <esowiki> [[User:The-Ennemy/asm2bf-tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82032&oldid=82014 * The-Ennemy * (+19) /* Stack access */
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17:05:54 <esowiki> [[Birb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82033&oldid=82030 * SCKelemen * (+70) /* Symbols */
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17:15:40 <esowiki> [[Falel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82034 * Umanochiocciola * (+1642) Created page with "Fancy Assembly Like EsoLang This is a little thing I made after playing Shenzen I/O. ==Documentation== <code> Memory Scheme | out-buff | in-buff | acc | x3 ...."
17:16:50 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82035&oldid=82034 * Umanochiocciola * (+6)
17:17:10 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82036&oldid=82035 * Umanochiocciola * (-15)
17:17:28 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82037&oldid=82036 * Umanochiocciola * (+1)
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19:12:59 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82038&oldid=81708 * Hyperdawg * (+15)
19:24:01 <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder if it's common nowadays to use a 1600x1200 resolution when emulating the non-square-pixel 4:3 320x200 VGA display modes. That'd give the right aspect ratio, and integer scaling in both dimensions (320*5 = 1600, 200*6 = 1200), and fit into a reasonably sized window on an 1440p monitor.
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19:25:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: but most people use 1920x1080 resolution monitors, so that won't work
19:25:32 <b_jonas> and we also might want space for other things
19:26:19 <b_jonas> (I personally have an 1920x1200 monitor, 16:10 ratio, at home right now, until this one dies completely, but those are hard to buy)
19:26:28 <b_jonas> so we just use smaller sizes
19:26:28 <fizzie> Do they? I thought 1440p and 2560p was getting pretty popular?
19:26:49 <fizzie> Well, I guess it's still "most".
19:26:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: a few people have such high resolution, but I think 1920x1080 is still the most common
19:27:21 <fizzie> Yeah, https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ says 67.35% 1920x1080, and 8.01% 2560x1440.
19:27:34 <fizzie> (And 2.41% 3840x2160.)
19:28:35 <b_jonas> fizzie: mind you, it's likely that the 1920x1080 are the monitors that the office buys to people to do their job, and the videogamers that emulate 320x200 resolution games are more likely to have more or bigger monitors at home where they play the videogames
19:28:56 <b_jonas> (there's of course the opposite effect, with radiologists who use big monitors for their work, but that's a small minority)
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19:52:14 <fizzie> I've settled on a 2x 25" 2560x1440 combination, but at the office it was more convenient to go with the stock arrangement of 2x 27" 2560x1440, which I think is a little bit larger than necessary, physically speaking. (The *other* stock arrangement would have been 1x 32" 3840x2160.)
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19:54:16 <b_jonas> I don't know yet what monitor I'll buy, and I hope I won't have to buy it soon, because I would hate if this one died
19:57:13 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok, but maybe you don't work at one of those run-of-the-mill office jobs, but as a programmer who sometimes uses their work computer for more than Excel spreadsheets and facebook
20:02:53 <fizzie> One inconvenience with a two-monitor setup is that if you need to replace one (because of the magic smoke getting out, for example), you're limited to (a) sticking with the existing dot pitch, (b) ending up with two monitors where moving a window from one to another makes everything larger, or (c) having to replace a perfectly good monitor as well.
20:03:28 <fizzie> I spent quite a few years in option (b), with a 2560x1440 + 1920x1200 pair.
20:07:51 <b_jonas> fizzie: plus it only works for the lizardmen from mars who infiltrated Earth, because they have pairs of chameleon eyes so they can look at multiple monitors at the same time. I for one hate that setup, it just leads either to staring at a boundary between two monitors, or having to turn my neck to stare at one monitor all the time. I'm glad I could convince my job to take one monitor away, the
20:07:57 <b_jonas> resulting one monitor setup is more enjoyable.
20:09:10 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82039&oldid=82038 * Hyperdawg * (+162) /* Example programs */
20:09:49 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82040&oldid=82039 * Hyperdawg * (-52) /* Hello World */
20:11:48 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82041&oldid=82040 * Hyperdawg * (+84)
20:20:25 <nakilon> "lie around there for so many years probably isn't very secure in the long run"
20:20:54 <nakilon> I feel like his point was something like that he used the same password everywhere at that time ..D
20:21:35 <fizzie> Well, they could certainly generate a random new password. Assuming they can log on to that account still.
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20:22:52 <nakilon> but the leak could happen any time
20:23:15 <nakilon> before he realised he has this account "to lie around there for so many years"
20:23:48 <nakilon> not that it's possible to do anything about it
20:24:08 <nakilon> I'm just giving my guess just why he was asking about this at all
20:33:27 <b_jonas> `? password
20:33:29 <HackEso> The password of the month is hiding in plain sight.
20:34:20 <b_jonas> so it did get changed, though rather late
21:04:17 <pikhq> i should get a new monitor. it's a touch annoying having a high DPI and standard DPI screen
21:04:38 <pikhq> though at least these days i'm using all mac os, and the mac os support for that is not-terrible (unlike other OSes i could name)
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23:11:25 <zzo38> I have 1280x1024
23:17:28 <kmc> my new laptop is a 14" 1080p
23:17:44 <kmc> higher DPI would be nice, but it's a good screen in other respects
23:17:50 <kmc> i don't really care about 16:9 versus 16:10
23:19:53 <int-e> > let f w h = w*h/(w^2+h^2) in f 16 10/f 16 9
23:19:55 <lambdabot> 1.0518102372034956
23:20:13 <int-e> 16:10 gives you 5% more screen space for the same diagonal length ;)
23:22:38 <zzo38> The monitor will have to fit on the desk, and you might want pixels of a certain minimum and maximum size
23:27:34 <pikhq> this is... 2560x1600, 13.3" (16:10)
23:27:49 <pikhq> which is a pretty nice resolution for a small display
23:30:41 * pikhq has liked this laptop a fair bit more than she was expecting
23:34:30 <fizzie> 16:10 1920x1200 has that (niche?) benefit that you can play 16:9 1080p video without any scaling and still have space at the bottom (or top, if you bend that way) for showing playback controls without obscuring the video.
23:34:48 <fizzie> Hmm, or maybe subtitles. Though I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad idea.
23:36:02 <zzo38> I think it is fine to hide playback controls and use the controls on the keyboard, although you may want to display subtitles/captions and time codes, and the track number
23:36:17 <pikhq> yeah, the playback controls thing is the justification for 16:10
23:36:41 <pikhq> tho even watching video on here i really do prefer to have them hidden when not interacting with the controls
23:36:54 <pikhq> letterboxing is just nicer than graphics that arent what im looking at
23:41:57 <zzo38> Does any DVD video software allow you to adjust the colours and opacity of the subtitles?
23:43:23 <zzo38> (I have read some details of the format, and it seems that this should be possible, but I have never seen any DVD player that has such an option.)
23:48:49 <fizzie> I think mpv can convert them to grayscale (--sub-gray, mentions DVD image subtitles), but I think nothing more elaborate than that. DVDSubEdit (a Windows-only program?) appears to have an arbitrary color remapping option, but it's not a playback program.
23:49:12 <fizzie> (DVDSubEdit looks vaguely familiar. I wonder if I've maybe used it.)
23:51:00 <kmc> I haven't used VLC to play DVDs, but I believe it can, and it allows adjusting the colors and opacity of subtitles in general
23:53:01 <zzo38> The DVD player I have (connected to the television) can change the colours and opacity of captions, but not of subtitles. (However, you cannot turn on/off captions or select them during playback, but you can select subtitles during playback.)
23:56:01 <pikhq> i don't know if anything can, i usually just accept the subtitle rendering for whatever i'm watching
23:58:39 <nakilon> do you watch movies from DVD? _Oo
23:59:30 <pikhq> admittedly whenever i _do_ watch things on dvd it's actually me ripping it :p
23:59:40 <pikhq> and i usually mux the raw dvd subs in when i do that
00:00:09 <zzo38> (This is one reason I prefer to use captions instead. With captions, it is also possible to change the font, too. It is not possible to change the font of DVD subtitles, although the format would allow changing colours/opacity, that doesn't seem to be implemented. Changing the font of DVD subtitles after it has been recorded is not possible though.)
00:00:28 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82042&oldid=68840 * Truttle1 * (+58)
00:01:09 <pikhq> yeah, since DVD subtitles are just bitmaps, only so much you can do
00:02:31 <zzo38> They are stored using indexed colours, and with the specification of what colour to use for which index. So, this should easily allow the user to change which colour corresponds to which index.
00:03:19 * pikhq nods
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00:32:32 <kmc> I didn't know they are bitmaps
00:32:51 <kmc> I guess that is easier than every DVD player having fonts and rendering code for every language out there
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00:43:14 <zzo38> Yes, it is easier. It has advantages and disadvantages compared with captions (although it is possible for DVDs to have captions, too, but not all DVD players can play them; if the DVD player does not have its own ability to render captions and the connection to the display is HDMI, then it will not be possible to display the captions at all; subtitles don't have this problem, although this is also a problem with HDMI)
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00:53:59 <zzo38> How can I tell 7-Zip to add empty files?
00:55:18 <zzo38> It seems that it does, but why does'nt it list them when they are being added to the archive?
00:56:49 <kmc> zzo38: so HDMI does not include a way to carry captions data?
00:57:21 <kmc> i'm surprised to hear that
00:59:07 <zzo38> kmc: As far as I know, that is correct, it doesn't. (Someone mentioned to me SDI, and apparely SDI does.)
01:00:07 <zzo38> (I would prefer Digi-RGB+audio+IMIDI, but this is currently never used; the electrical specification has not yet been written.)
01:02:23 <zzo38> (Only the format of the data has been written so far.)
01:03:25 <nakilon> why use 7zip in the first place?
01:03:55 <pikhq> Yeah, DVDs have some aspects that feel pretty archaic because they're designed around technical limitations that are a fair bit older than their common adoption.
01:04:04 <pikhq> The technical limitations of 1995 are baked into the file format
01:04:09 <pikhq> *s
01:05:22 <zzo38> The compression of 7-Zip is better than ZIP. I tried again this time creating a ZIP archive, this time it does list all of the files. When creating a 7-Zip archive, it doesn't list empty files, but still adds them; this seems to be a bug.
01:07:08 <pikhq> Yeah, and ZIP has a max file size that's relatively small
01:07:22 <pikhq> (the zip64 extension lets you surpass that, but not much supports it)
01:08:06 <zzo38> I have never had problems with the file size limit
01:08:26 <pikhq> The file size limit is, admittedly, 4 gigs
01:08:47 <pikhq> So it's not low enough it'll prevent all uses, just low enough it'll prevent a few reasonable ones
01:11:33 <zzo38> Now I added the sokoban example into the repository of Free Hero Mesh, in case an example is wanted. Later, it might be better to have a proper puzzle set catalog, like how Tom7's Escape game has a level catalog by internet.
01:13:17 <zzo38> (Currently a compressed tape archive is used, but for the puzzle catalog, a compressed Hamster archive might be better.)
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02:05:27 <esowiki> [[Abcout]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82043&oldid=82020 * Sporeball * (+0) link to Subleq within quote
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02:38:11 <nakilon> this max file limit might be the only reason to not use zip
02:38:35 <nakilon> if that's a problem I would check the .tar.gz out
02:40:09 <nakilon> but 7zip is just a cancer unconsciously marketed out to relatively noticable use by those who have a bit more knowledge about computers than a farm worker
02:41:00 <nakilon> there are hundreds of compressors and if you want to debate on that subject you'll find that 7zip isn't the best so it's not an argument
02:41:58 <nakilon> the real argument is compatibility and AFAIK the most crossplatform formats for compressing files are .ZIP and .TAR.GZ
02:42:08 <nakilon> everything else needs shitty installers
02:44:08 <nakilon> and going back to real benchmarks, the RAR still wins if you add this up with the fact that it's not abandoned unlike most of others https://gist.github.com/Nakilon/09fac4335b95f9617e4c82af4d9e1e7d
02:45:50 <nakilon> also the last time I had to unpack 7zip it could not unpack, lol, was not liking the file names encoding
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03:40:48 <zzo38> Actually, I decompressed a RAR file I saw and recompressed it as 7Z format and the 7Z file is smaller. However, neither format is quite what I would have wanted. I had my own idea, which includes VM codes so that specialized algorithms are possible; ZPAQ does that, but I don't really like its design and would prefer having archiving and compression separate (like .tar.gz is).
03:41:08 <zzo38> But ZIP is most common, so if you don't need the features or extra compression of other formats, then ZIP can be used.
03:47:48 <zzo38> One possible advantage of captions over subtitles is the possibility of caption scrollback, although I don't know of anything that implements it. (For some uses, hidden captions would also be useful; I think EIA-708 has this, but I don't know if it is used. I think it has tagged captions, but I haven't seen any implementation that has options to customize the tag mask.)
03:49:40 <zzo38> DVD subtitles are numbered, and also are identified by languages. I read about one movie that has an option for English and French subtitles together (depending on the speech); how would you specify the language for that in the DVD subtitles format?
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05:40:02 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82044&oldid=81781 * Zzo38 * (+572)
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05:59:20 <nakilon> you may consider not just specialized algorithm but a specialised training data
06:00:33 <nakilon> some successfull decompressors are using a generic algorithms plus the preforged "description" of the data the decompressor should expect to unpack to
06:01:46 <nakilon> it's essentially putting the knowledge about the data into the decompressor and the more effective they get the more they weight nowadays
06:02:22 <nakilon> like recognition AIs you know
06:06:56 <nakilon> so the thing is if your goal isn't to distribute something self-extracting but to make users to have a decompressor installed separately from the data they'll get later separately then I would look for tools that provide the way to build the training data from your sample input
06:07:30 <nakilon> but again this might be just not worth it
06:14:18 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82045&oldid=82044 * Zzo38 * (+831)
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11:30:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Olus2000 * New user account
11:44:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82046&oldid=81925 * Olus2000 * (+323) Introduction of Olus2000
11:53:05 <esowiki> [[User:Olus2000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82047 * Olus2000 * (+249) Initial commit
11:55:23 <esowiki> [[User:Olus2000]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82048&oldid=82047 * Olus2000 * (+0) Capitalisation of BAL
12:08:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Schadimander * New user account
12:14:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82049&oldid=82046 * Schadimander * (+284) introducing?
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12:26:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82050&oldid=68486 * Schadimander * (+160)
12:26:22 <esowiki> [[Talk:English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82051&oldid=82050 * Schadimander * (+2)
12:28:41 <fizzie> I seem to remember there was some convention in DVD subtitles to use an uncommon (relatively speaking) language as an ad-hoc standard for some other purpose. Can't remember the details though.
12:29:30 <fizzie> Or maybe I'm thinking of DVB broadcasting (in Finland), and using some uncommon language for the accessibility / hearing-impaired / audio description captions.
12:32:44 <fizzie> Some interweb searching seems to suggest DVB has dedicated subtitle types for "regular use" and "hearing impaired", but I guess it's not impossible they might have been worried about software support and still picked a different fake language code.
13:00:36 <b_jonas> nakilon: no, 7zip is a decent compressor for its own format, with a nice easily tunable parameter, a nice package supporting a lot of existing compressed and misc formats, a usable windows GUI, with a terribly messed up command-line interface. but since it's open source, it should be possible to fix the command-line interface. I use 7zip to do much of my compression these days.
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13:26:08 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82052&oldid=81578 * Hakerh400 * (+786) Add hello-world example
13:34:32 <esowiki> [[Referencement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82053&oldid=79029 * Hakerh400 * (+2715) Add TIO links
13:56:49 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Assembly Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82054 * Olus2000 * (+6178) Initial commit
14:04:00 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82055&oldid=82031 * Olus2000 * (+34) Added Brainfuck Assembly Language
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14:31:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheTermProgrammer * New user account
14:49:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82056&oldid=80257 * Betseg * (+407) /* Metacategorization */ new section
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14:52:25 <betseg> how do i propose a page for deletion
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14:54:36 <betseg> hewwo
14:54:40 <betseg> how do i propose a page for deletion
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15:10:17 <kspalaiologos> which page is it
15:10:26 <kspalaiologos> you can @tell fizzie about it, probably. or ping them.
15:10:43 <betseg> emojicode
15:10:53 <betseg> it redirects to an unrelated language
15:11:48 <betseg> and emojicode itself is a non-eso lang
15:12:37 <kspalaiologos> emojicode is an esolang
15:13:16 <betseg> is it
15:14:01 <kspalaiologos> it's an attempt of creating a bizzare language and then branding it as a normal language
15:14:26 <kspalaiologos> there's no advantage of using emojis like this
15:14:59 <betseg> it's a normal language that happens to use emoji as its reserved words and function names
15:16:05 <kspalaiologos> asm2bf is a serious assembler, yet it's still considered an esolang by most people.
15:19:02 <kspalaiologos> someone could probably write an esolangs wiki article on it, though.
15:19:20 <kspalaiologos> it's esoteric enough to have it's own article, and if APL deserves being on the wiki, then emojicode surely does too :P
15:19:21 <betseg> yeah it's still a false redirecrt
15:19:37 <betseg> wait APL is considered esoteric???
15:19:54 <kspalaiologos> i know multiple people who think that APL/J are esolangs
15:19:59 <betseg> oh its article says "non-esoteric"
15:20:11 <kspalaiologos> it's a bit esoteric, esoteric as in "usual"
15:20:17 <kspalaiologos> s/usual/unusual
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15:29:51 <lyncid[m]> oh hello betseg, didn't expect to see you here (am kritixi)
15:30:13 <betseg> hi!
15:35:37 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82057&oldid=66398 * Betseg * (+55) Removed redirect to [[Emoji]]
15:36:39 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82058&oldid=82057 * Betseg * (+53)
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15:45:31 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82059&oldid=82058 * Betseg * (+10)
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16:17:29 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82060&oldid=82037 * Umanochiocciola * (-133) /* Documentation */
16:20:06 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82061&oldid=82060 * Umanochiocciola * (+37) /* Documentation */
16:20:43 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck But With Buffer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82062&oldid=81679 * Umanochiocciola * (-35) /* Commands */
16:21:04 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82063&oldid=82061 * Umanochiocciola * (+14) /* Documentation */
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16:40:38 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82064 * Olus2000 * (+607) initial commit
16:41:47 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82065&oldid=82064 * Olus2000 * (+14) Corrected category link
16:42:47 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82066&oldid=82065 * Olus2000 * (+0) Corrected category
16:47:55 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82067&oldid=82055 * Olus2000 * (+24) Added toki pi ilo nanpa
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18:04:53 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82068&oldid=82066 * Betseg * (+14)
18:05:05 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82069&oldid=82068 * Betseg * (-15)
18:06:40 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82070&oldid=82059 * Betseg * (+39)
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18:43:26 <int-e> Ooph, I finished Recursed... only to discover https://recursed-ice-palace.github.io/
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19:15:25 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82071&oldid=82069 * Olus2000 * (+2169) Base info on variables
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19:22:42 <olus2000> Recursed looks awesome, and very affordable too! Thanks for the mention.
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19:49:55 <int-e> olus2000: it is a very cute game. be warned that the puzzles get quite hard though.
19:51:25 <int-e> (I bought it two years ago actually and didn't finish it on the first run. I restarted from scratch a week or two ago... though obviously I still remembered quite a few tricks.)
19:51:45 <esowiki> [[DriftLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82072&oldid=81558 * Hakerh400 * (-1) /* Syntactic sugar */
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20:38:53 <arcsor5> hello again
20:38:59 <arcsor5> After a long hiatus, i am back
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20:45:02 <int-e> ollehrjan
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20:53:09 <olus2000> Judging by the first half of the levels I wish it were harder, but I believe next word will start to be a serious problem. That's what I like in puzzle levels.
20:53:28 <oerjan> hint-e
20:54:51 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82073&oldid=82056 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+184) /* Metacategorization */ Reply
20:55:45 <oerjan> so we've learned that vozzling is topologically similar to knitting, and children love vozzlers.
20:57:05 <oerjan> i conclude that they're manifold surgeons, who repair hyperdimensional plush toys.
20:59:42 <oerjan> int-e: also it will be interesting to see if kjarl retains any of his time powers. should be useful in a war...
20:59:58 <oerjan> although gil already has the dreen
21:00:25 <oerjan> but kjarl seems to be easier to communicate with
21:01:27 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82074&oldid=81643 * Quintopia * (-4) correct analytical engine programming cards link
21:01:36 * oerjan is still catching up to stuff. currently binging shtetl-optimized
21:02:52 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82075&oldid=82074 * Quintopia * (+4) bullets
21:08:13 <int-e> olus2000: it starts out easy... the first tricky levels should turn up in the ruins
21:09:25 <int-e> (so the 4th level set)
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21:29:40 <int-e> oerjan: Hmm I guess I have given up on trying to predict GG, so I have not thought about what Kjarl may do in the future.
21:31:55 <oerjan> shocking
21:32:05 <int-e> It was complicated enough before they skipped, what was it, 8 months? after Klaus froze Mechanicsburg.
21:33:10 <oerjan> 2 1/2 years iirc
21:33:35 <int-e> ah, worse
21:34:10 <int-e> So I'm pondering small things. Like... what did Krosp notice about that cat?
21:34:33 <oerjan> my theory: martellus made it have super-high cat rank like krosp
21:35:00 <oerjan> so it's the first cat he's ever met that doesn't submit to him
21:36:34 <oerjan> essentially, she's the empress of all cats
21:36:47 <int-e> that could be fun
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22:17:37 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82076&oldid=81744 * Grom * (+12)
22:19:45 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82077&oldid=82076 * Grom * (+0)
22:20:16 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82078&oldid=82077 * Grom * (+24)
22:27:09 <esowiki> [[Analytical Engine Programming Cards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82079&oldid=81642 * Quintopia * (+3421) /* Attendant Cards */
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23:51:26 <zzo38> I like to be able to skip to whatever level of the puzzle game that I want to do, and keep track of which ones are solved or unsolved
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01:09:00 <zzo38> Please tell me if this is good http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/separate_deck_crypto it is what I mentioned a few days ago
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03:03:14 <esowiki> [[E++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82080 * Schadimander * (+296) Created page with "E++ is a language made by me. It is a joke language. It is a copy of E. Binary list: E - binary 1 A - binary 0 Command list: 101101001 - Prints E 100101110 - Prints A 10110 -..."
03:04:56 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82081 * Schadimander * (+30) Created page with "I don't know what to put here."
03:06:42 <esowiki> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82082&oldid=82080 * Schadimander * (+5)
03:07:18 <esowiki> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82083&oldid=82082 * Schadimander * (+3)
03:09:53 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82084&oldid=81956 * Schadimander * (+53)
03:10:34 <esowiki> [[Category:Schadimander's Things]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82085 * Schadimander * (+14) Created page with "Nevermind here"
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08:11:44 <esowiki> [[Bitwise Trance]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82086&oldid=81611 * Hakerh400 * (+2349) Add two more examples
08:16:44 <esowiki> [[Subreal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82087&oldid=76531 * RocketRace * (+95) Clarify invalid operation behavior
08:17:22 <esowiki> [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82088&oldid=73315 * Hakerh400 * (+1865) Add TIO links
08:22:02 <esowiki> [[User talk:LyricLy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82089 * Citrons * (+14) /* beans */ new section
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11:22:12 <esowiki> [[User:Schadimander]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82090 * Schadimander * (+63) Created page with "It is me, Schadimander! You can talk below this text. Have fun!"
11:23:59 <esowiki> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82091&oldid=82083 * Schadimander * (+29)
11:24:40 <esowiki> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82092&oldid=82091 * Schadimander * (+4)
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13:09:50 <esowiki> [[E++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82093&oldid=82092 * Schadimander * (+6)
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13:53:22 <esowiki> [[User:Dan zh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82094&oldid=53357 * Singingbanana * (-294) Blanked the page
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14:23:40 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82095&oldid=82071 * Olus2000 * (+1977) Documentation revamp
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19:39:23 <delta23> what class of language would it be if there was a programming language that had no conditionals or branches - but
19:39:37 <delta23> had self modification and by definition each program was in an infinite loop ?
19:40:28 <kmc> it depends on the details but such a thing could easily be turing-complete
19:41:46 <kmc> you can easily build data conditionals out of arithmetic -- if x is a 0-or-1 bool then x*a + (1-x)*b is equivelent to (x ? a : b)
19:42:12 <kmc> and if you have self modifying code then it's easy to turn data conditionals into control flow conditionals
19:45:39 <int-e> delta23: what do you think of https://esolangs.org/wiki/SMETANA
19:46:21 <delta23> kmc: ic
19:47:04 <delta23> int-e: that case is more obvious though
19:47:57 <delta23> hm
19:49:10 <int-e> delta23: Well, it's simple, it has no conditionals, and it is self-modifying.
19:50:00 <kmc> you can implement unconditional 'goto' as a write to some 'program counter' variable
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19:50:05 <kmc> (not in SMETANA but in general I mean)
19:50:41 <kmc> every instruction in your infinite loop is assigned a "line number" and is coded in such a way that it checks the pc variable and has no side effect unless the pc is equal to that line number
19:50:52 <kmc> then you 'goto' by writing to pc and just waiting for it to loop around to that instruction
19:52:53 <kmc> 10 X = Y; GOTO 20 ==> x = (pc == 10 ? y : x); pc = 20
19:53:01 <kmc> this sort of thing doesn't need self modifying code either
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19:53:16 <kmc> unless your arthimetic primitives are sufficiently impovrished
19:53:47 <int-e> Well if you allow ?: you should be happy with Fractran-like formalisms.
19:54:49 <kmc> oh yeah, fractran is a good point of reference here
19:55:15 <kmc> but I aimed to show above that the ?: construct is not essential
19:55:26 <kmc> if you have more ordinary arithmetic
20:00:22 <int-e> . o O ( s/SGX (compromise|vulnerability)/SGX backdoor/g )
20:05:18 <int-e> EWRONGCHAN
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21:33:53 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82096&oldid=81991 * SCKelemen * (+368) /* Type System */
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00:12:01 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82097&oldid=82081 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-30) This should be deleted
00:12:29 <esowiki> [[E++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82098&oldid=82093 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
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00:33:40 <esowiki> [[PYSP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82099 * IFcoltransG * (+1637) Created page with "'''PYSP''' (for '''PYthon String Programming''') is a DSL embedded by an unknown user in Python, described as '[[lisp]]like'. It seems to have been inspired by such languages..."
00:36:18 <esowiki> [[PYSP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82100&oldid=82099 * IFcoltransG * (+222) Fix formatting
00:42:57 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Joke language]]": empty, unapproved category (the approved one is [[Category:Joke languages]])
00:44:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Schadimander's Things]]": unapproved/undiscussed category
00:44:55 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82101&oldid=82067 * IFcoltransG * (+11) /* P */ Add PYSP
00:45:35 <esowiki> [[PYSP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82102&oldid=82100 * IFcoltransG * (+15) Wording
00:46:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82103&oldid=82073 * Ais523 * (+496) /* Can we have an Imperative paradigm category now please? */ no objection, but some things to think about
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01:15:38 <esowiki> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82104&oldid=82026 * Ais523 * (-9) /* List of OISCs */ table formatting fix
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02:09:11 <esowiki> [[PYSP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82105&oldid=82102 * IFcoltransG * (+109) Adapt to new data about reference implementation
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04:43:45 <zzo38> What do some C compilers do that target an instruction set that does not use an addressable stack (if there is any)?
04:45:40 <zzo38> Does LLVM support such a thing at all?
04:46:39 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82106&oldid=81933 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+52) Aheui
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05:22:53 <esowiki> [[PYSP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82107&oldid=82105 * LyricLy * (-11)
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06:23:19 <esowiki> [[Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82108&oldid=80503 * Sporeball * (+135) command -> instruction, other changes
06:47:32 <zzo38> Someone mentioned to me today about a programming language to make animations about mathematics, but I don't know what it is.
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06:56:41 <nakilon> there was some JS library for animations that some math youtube channel is using
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08:43:07 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82109&oldid=79801 * Palaiologos * (+1691) v1.5.3+ changelogs; fix a deadlink
08:43:43 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82110&oldid=82109 * Palaiologos * (+7) add a missing </pre>
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08:45:10 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82111&oldid=82110 * Palaiologos * (-29) fix unintentional indent causing the bullet list to be interpreted as verbatim text.
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09:51:33 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * New user account
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10:07:39 <Guest45513> Hello world
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11:16:03 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82112&oldid=82049 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (+249) /* Introductions */ introduced the best person ever.
11:16:08 <esowiki> [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82113&oldid=79420 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (+1483) Added information about implementing bitwise operators in SUBLEQ, and links to information about running a Forth interpreter on top of SUBLEQ
11:18:50 <esowiki> [[User:SubleqIsTheBestLeq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82114 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (+34) i like subleq
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11:49:52 <b_jonas> delta23: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Blindfolded_Arithmetic is an example for a language that is Turing-complete despite no control structures other than a global loop
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13:26:02 <b_jonas> `olist 1231
13:26:05 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1231.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:25:06 <esowiki> [[E++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82115&oldid=82098 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-36) Remove redcat
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17:21:01 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82116&oldid=81757 * Not applicable * (+2375) start work on StupidZM
17:21:57 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82117&oldid=82116 * Not applicable * (+0) i always mess up something...
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18:37:36 <oozed1> Hello again
18:37:44 <oozed1> Im under a different username this time
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01:20:32 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Beniolenio * New user account
01:26:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82118&oldid=82112 * Beniolenio * (+398) /* Introductions */
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04:21:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Julia * New user account
04:25:58 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82119&oldid=82118 * Julia * (+156) /* Introductions */
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06:37:56 <esowiki> [[BitBounce]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82120&oldid=81623 * Hakerh400 * (+6514) Add hello world and cat programs
06:38:34 <esowiki> [[BitBounce]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82121&oldid=82120 * Hakerh400 * (-1)
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06:51:36 <esowiki> [[Golden sunrise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82122&oldid=71043 * Hakerh400 * (+3354) Add TIO links and hello world example
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08:19:42 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82123&oldid=82095 * Olus2000 * (+3486)
08:21:08 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82124&oldid=82123 * Olus2000 * (+7) unmached <code>
08:22:11 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82125&oldid=82124 * Olus2000 * (+1) More unmached <code>
08:43:58 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wolfos * New user account
08:44:37 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82126&oldid=82119 * Wolfos * (+138)
08:45:06 <esowiki> [[Ook!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82127&oldid=59956 * Wolfos * (-46)
08:50:11 <esowiki> [[Floof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82128 * Julia * (+4926) init Floof page
08:53:13 <esowiki> [[Floof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82129&oldid=82128 * Julia * (-44) removed unneeded italics
08:56:25 <esowiki> [[User:Julia]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82130 * Julia * (+8) init me
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11:29:29 <esowiki> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82131 * Hakerh400 * (+5224) +[[]]
11:29:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82132&oldid=82101 * Hakerh400 * (+9) +[[]]
11:29:38 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82133&oldid=81998 * Hakerh400 * (+9) +[[]]
11:30:17 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82134&oldid=82133 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
11:30:29 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82135&oldid=82134 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
11:35:45 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82136&oldid=82131 * Hakerh400 * (+9)
11:38:23 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82137&oldid=82136 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
11:41:38 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82138&oldid=82137 * Hakerh400 * (+50)
11:42:50 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82139&oldid=82138 * Hakerh400 * (-2)
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12:17:18 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82140&oldid=82125 * Olus2000 * (+68) /* Values and types */
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12:20:50 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82141&oldid=82140 * Olus2000 * (+1) /* Paragraphs */
12:22:34 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82142&oldid=82141 * Olus2000 * (+115) /* Assignment */
12:28:49 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82143&oldid=82142 * Olus2000 * (+110) /* Paragraphs */ explained how to pass parameters to paragraphs
12:31:59 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82144&oldid=82143 * Olus2000 * (+12) /* Control structures */
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12:55:36 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82145&oldid=82132 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* F */ [[Floof]]
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13:18:21 <paul321> moin moin
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13:24:57 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82146&oldid=82144 * Olus2000 * (+951)
13:25:58 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82147&oldid=82146 * Olus2000 * (+2) unmached <code>
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14:05:39 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82148&oldid=79528 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-83) /* Implementation */ Remove duplication
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14:36:20 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82149&oldid=82147 * Olus2000 * (+1457)
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15:28:47 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82150&oldid=82149 * Olus2000 * (+891) More verbs
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17:07:25 <esowiki> [[SBN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82151&oldid=81583 * Kefalonia * (+15) make the sentence readable
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20:05:34 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82152&oldid=82150 * Olus2000 * (+39)
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20:38:33 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82153&oldid=81913 * EnilKoder * (+44) Added Rhapsody in Blue to unimplemented ideas comment
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21:16:02 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82154&oldid=82152 * Olus2000 * (-39) Colons are not a part of the language
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02:03:59 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82155&oldid=81251 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+303) /* Euler's birthday is coming. */ new section
02:04:43 <esowiki> [[Befunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82156&oldid=43145 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+25) Recategorization
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05:48:20 <zzo38> I would want web browser to include a "mime-override:" URI scheme.
05:48:55 <zzo38> Would you want?
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10:33:37 <esowiki> [[XO Mchne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82157&oldid=71617 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (-1) /* C Implementation */ Fixed common mistake
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10:49:58 <esowiki> [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82158&oldid=82113 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (+373) Added clarification about the OISC-y-ness of most SUBLEQ implementions.
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12:54:46 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82159&oldid=81304 * RetroPain * (+9) /* Truth-machine */
12:55:15 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82160&oldid=82159 * RetroPain * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
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14:14:52 <b_jonas> https://esoteric.codes/blog/david-madore newer interview with David Madore
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15:38:51 <esowiki> [[Pain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82161&oldid=82160 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+46) /* Hello, world! */ Make sentence truer
15:39:59 <esowiki> [[PDA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82162&oldid=81915 * Largejamie * (+389) /* Examples */
15:41:48 <esowiki> [[PDA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82163&oldid=82162 * Largejamie * (+59) /* Overview */
15:42:18 <esowiki> [[DFA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82164&oldid=81700 * Largejamie * (+59) /* Overview */
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17:56:15 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Makonede * New user account
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17:58:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82165&oldid=82126 * Makonede * (+117)
18:21:21 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82166 * Makonede * (+522) Created page with "'''Duocentehexaquinquagesimal''' is a derivative of [[Golunar]], which itself is a derivative of [[Unary]], which itself is a derivative of [[brainfuck]]. It operates in nearl..."
18:23:34 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82167&oldid=82166 * Makonede * (+276)
18:24:17 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82168&oldid=82145 * Makonede * (+33)
18:33:52 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82169&oldid=82167 * Makonede * (+39)
18:34:12 <esowiki> [[User:Makonede]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82170 * Makonede * (+5) Created page with "hello"
18:35:37 <esowiki> [[User:Makonede]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82171&oldid=82170 * Makonede * (+48)
18:35:44 <esowiki> [[User:Makonede]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82172&oldid=82171 * Makonede * (-1)
18:40:10 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82173&oldid=82169 * Makonede * (+36)
18:40:27 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82174&oldid=82173 * Makonede * (+2)
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19:41:30 <zzo38> How do I find the IRC that someone may be interested in my "Free Hero Mesh" software? I tried #freenode but they wouldn't help.
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20:18:24 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82175&oldid=82174 * Makonede * (-36)
20:54:50 <int-e> zzo38: Maybe create a channel and mention it on the FHM page? But maybe nobody cares...
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22:01:43 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82176&oldid=82175 * Makonede * (+423)
22:04:08 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82177&oldid=82176 * Makonede * (+5)
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23:31:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:Emoticon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82178&oldid=75966 * Mercerenies * (+368)
23:34:28 <tslil> hmm, i used to hang out here years ago. I wonder what happened to the other folks that were around then, perhaps everyone has moved to some new platform?
23:35:31 <zzo38> Or maybe they are just not on any more; sometimes that happens.
23:36:20 <tslil> fair enough, that's probably more likely.
23:37:34 <tslil> yeah, let's see, i was here last in ~2009. I think i only recognise the two bots! :p
23:38:31 <tslil> well i had come back to say thank you: although i can't prove it, i suspect that the time i spent on this channel was formative in my life choices and education, so thanks all!
23:39:40 <int-e> hmm hmm. https://esolangs.org/logs/2008-03-21.html#lek
23:40:20 <tslil> int-e: wow, yes!
23:41:22 <int-e> ais523 and oerjan still drop in occasionally. A lot of other people have indeed disappeared over timew
23:41:25 <int-e> -w
23:41:43 <tslil> yeah, it turns out that that example for Tree is incorrect, but i've never gone back to fix it. I also think i can't now, as the email address with my account is gone. Or at least, i can't fix it as me
23:42:15 <tslil> int-e: cool! i'd love to say hi, so i think i'll hang around.
23:42:16 <tslil> ais
23:42:36 <tslil> ais523 helped me with my highschool homework, though i doubt he remembers
23:44:50 <fizzie> I think AnMaster (subsequently, Vorpal) also dropped by sometime last year, but didn't say anything.
23:44:52 <tslil> so actually, any idea who has admin priveleges over the Wiki and whether it would be possible to reclaim my account?
23:45:07 <int-e> fizzie knows ;)
23:47:12 <fizzie> I don't suppose your account is associated with an email address that you've still got access to? The problem with that kind of thing is, it's hard to be principled about what level of proof of identity it needs, otherwise.
23:48:05 <tslil> right, i completely understand. There's a small chance i migrated it to an address i can still reach. I'll try that now
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23:49:14 <tslil> (in fact i was just wondering what, if anything, would constitute a proof of identity)
23:49:22 <fizzie> Well, your password recovery email just bounced.
23:50:02 <tslil> yeah, apparently i didn't have the foresight to change my listed address when i dropped that email account
23:51:04 <tslil> or, wait, bounced as in the email address was invalid, or bounced as in the email address i submitted was not linked to the account?
23:51:37 <fizzie> The former. Gmail says "The email account that you tried to reach does not exist". Hmm.
23:52:05 <tslil> Ah yes, this is the problem. I `deleted' my gmail account (inasmuch as google does that)
23:53:10 <tslil> anyway, i don't want to press you fizzie to compromise your morals or make an exception here, i completely understand the slippery slope. If there is something you'd be comfortable with i'd be happy to try, but otherwise don't worry :)
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23:53:31 <fizzie> It's kind of silly. I don't imagine identity fraud using esolangs.org wiki accounts is exactly top on anyone's list, but it'd be nice to have *some* sort of rationale.
23:53:55 <fizzie> Hmm, I guess your user page mentions "maximum_yellow", which does match your Freenode account name, that's kind of a data point.
23:54:37 <tslil> i can produce public keys, my academic website, maybe even references if oerjan/ais523/... rejoin
23:54:57 * int-e ponders registering a new gmail account right now just try to make a point :-P (I have no clue how google feels about reusing old email addresses... or about allowing gmail.com, for that matter)
23:55:18 <tslil> but i'm not sure that anything i do would ever be convincing, and i understand that
23:55:54 <int-e> (a likely looking address is in the logs)
23:56:01 <tslil> int-e: :) surely they must bar this, but who knows
23:56:07 <fizzie> I mean, I think it is pretty convincing, I just don't know where to put the threshold.
23:57:03 <int-e> 10 years of inactivity might lower the threshold
23:57:06 * int-e shrugs
23:57:11 <tslil> well no rush fizzie, i plan to hang around for a while :)
23:57:32 <tslil> (as in, months/years to come)
23:57:36 <fizzie> Also it's not exactly a common name, I would say. So if you've got an email address that's sort of publicly on a official-looking web page, I could forward that password reset email there?
23:59:45 <tslil> well fizzie generously agreed after pointing to an academic institution webpage! woo! I can finally fix that incorrect example :p
00:01:21 <fizzie> Sent. Should be something titled "Account details on Esolang".
00:01:50 <fizzie> I am reminded by that one prisoner who freed himself by having a friend fax a convincing-looking letter from a copy shop, though.
00:03:05 <zzo38> Using digital signatures might help, if you added your public key to your user page from that user account, but if not, then that won't help.
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00:21:55 <tslil> fizzie: excellent, thanks again! I believe i have changed my email address :)
00:31:31 <esowiki> [[User:Hiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82179&oldid=25996 * Hiato * (+104)
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00:36:05 <esowiki> [[Tree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82180&oldid=78380 * Hiato * (+194) 12 years later the second ``example'' becomes an example in earnest
00:36:45 <tslil> and there we have it, Tree finally has a control flow example, that i didn't write, 12 years after the fact :p
00:37:13 <int-e> trees take time to grow
00:37:18 <tslil> haha
00:46:15 <shachaf> Speaking of growing, I should get back to that game sometime.
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00:49:36 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, is resolution even closer to contraction than modus ponens is?
01:06:25 <esowiki> [[Subreal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82181&oldid=82087 * RocketRace * (+388) Clarify the behavior of subfinite loops
01:06:43 <esowiki> [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82182&oldid=82181 * RocketRace * (-5) /* Subfinite loops */
01:09:52 <nakilon> "this channel was formative in my life choices and education"
01:10:05 <nakilon> did you chose to become a befunge programmer?
01:11:14 <nakilon> fungot do you speak Russian?
01:11:14 <fungot> nakilon: essentials of programming languages' in the new iteration can you use ' all yall'? that ' a'
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01:28:42 <fizzie> Based on a quick grep of a few Cyrillic characters, I think the wp style's the only one that might have some Russian words in it. (And I don't know if even that does, necessarily.)
01:30:30 <op_4> nakilon: i consider my area of mathematics to be rather close actually
01:30:51 <op_4> (i'm tslil)
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01:44:26 <b_jonas> op_4: 10 years ago? that's a long time
01:45:03 <b_jonas> (the scary part is that 10 years ago was in 2011, because we're solidly in the future)
01:47:16 <b_jonas> I wasn't on #esoteric yet 10 years ago
01:49:10 <b_jonas> I arrived here too late
01:55:06 <b_jonas> (in 2013 apparently)
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02:02:56 <op_4> b
02:03:00 <op_4> b
02:03:04 <op_4> b
02:03:09 * op_4 curses new keyboard
02:03:34 <op_4> b_jonas: yeah, i try not to think that it would take 21 years to get back to the 90's
02:03:50 <op_4> b_jonas: i doubt there's a too late, only generations
02:34:56 <zzo38> I have another idea of Magic: the Gathering card: {?} World Enchantment ;; Attacking creatures have flanking. ;; Blocking creatures have first strike. ;; When ~ dies, target creature gains haste and gets -2/-1 until end of turn.
02:36:37 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82183&oldid=82177 * Makonede * (+3)
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03:09:02 <esowiki> [[TSL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82184&oldid=17339 * Hiato * (-6) Corrected an example for RWLR III
03:09:05 <pikhq> shachaf: growing's pretty fun. in some ways it's even more fun when you're older
03:09:51 <pikhq> op_4: oh huh, tslil, i think i recognize that name
03:10:45 <op_4> pikhq: i might recognise you too?
03:10:49 <op_4> hmm
03:11:09 <pikhq> i've been less frequently here than in the past but i've been around since, uh, 2005
03:11:43 <op_4> great, then we definitely met! I think i was here starting around 2007 or so
03:11:50 * op_4 feels old
03:11:50 <pikhq> oh cool
03:11:54 * pikhq too
03:12:20 <pikhq> i'm 31, whee
03:12:29 <op_4> interesting that minor edits are also picked up by the bot, is there no way to avoid spamming the channel?
03:12:36 * op_4 is now embarrassed
03:12:43 <op_4> i'm 29
03:12:51 <pikhq> oh i didn't realize, i've had that bot muted for aaages xd
03:13:37 <op_4> i hope i didn't make you feel old, it's just that 2007 feels *so long ago*
03:13:57 <pikhq> it does
03:14:08 <pikhq> and yet also so recent
03:14:17 <op_4> indeed
03:14:32 <pikhq> granted some of that is just cause so much of my 20s were less "succeeding" and more "randomly flailing"
03:15:48 <pikhq> not all bad mind
03:16:21 <pikhq> just, took a while to get there
03:16:43 <op_4> ah yes, the phase i'm now. momentum had me taking a random walk through highschool -> undergrad -> masters -> phd but now ... ?
03:17:03 <pikhq> i dropped out of college twice and got my bachelors' the third attempt
03:17:05 <pikhq> different flailing
03:17:41 <op_4> different, but honestly i don't know that i've gone forwards in anything but time
03:18:03 <pikhq> understanding of the self, perhaps
03:18:10 <pikhq> i definitely have gone forwards on that
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03:18:48 <op_4> that's great, i'm happy to hear it. And anyway congratulations for going back to college and triumphing
03:19:26 <pikhq> i feel like google and then college is the _unusual_ route but hey
03:19:56 <op_4> oh, impressive, i didn't know the context :)
03:20:37 * pikhq damned well earned her math degree, that's for sure
03:21:36 <op_4> :D
03:21:51 <op_4> that's cool! i'm doing maths too
03:22:00 <pikhq> nice :)
03:22:25 <op_4> but i suspect i'll end up doing programming for work
03:22:40 <pikhq> yeah, i'm back as a software engineer after that
03:23:08 <pikhq> happier and more successful one than i was before, tho that's partly for other reasons *shrug*
03:23:47 <op_4> i like research, but i just don't think i can continue teaching undergraduate courses. At least, the undergrads at my present institution and the courses i've TAd/taught have left me feeling burnt out on that
03:24:12 <op_4> pikhq: that's what i'm thinking. many of my friends went into tech stuff and they say the same things
03:25:48 <pikhq> honestly kinda hate the industry at large, but i think i feel okay about my current job
03:26:19 <pikhq> and i'm finally starting to feel like i have time for hobby things again :)
03:27:53 <op_4> oh, i'm sorry to hear that. Well at least you're finding time for yourself and ways to grow
03:28:32 <pikhq> got the new job in january, previous job was driving me to burnout
03:28:43 <pikhq> okay, well past
03:30:17 <pikhq> guess it happens tho. wasn't super optimistic about the long-term prospects there when i started, because, y'know, woman in tech :/
03:32:31 <pikhq> c'est la vie
03:34:10 <op_4> bleh, that sucks :/
03:34:40 <op_4> are you optimistic about this new one?
03:34:53 <pikhq> So far it's been going very well :)
03:34:57 <pikhq> and yeah
03:35:11 <shachaf> I started a new job last week and I can't yet make any statement about optimism.
03:35:17 <pikhq> that's fair
03:35:33 <pikhq> takes at least a few months before you have enough lay of the land to make any concrete statements
03:36:23 <shachaf> Which is particularly bad if your job is in construction.
03:36:28 <pikhq> lol
03:37:05 <op_4> haha
03:37:27 <esowiki> [[TSL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82185&oldid=82184 * Hiato * (+252) added example of addition programme
03:37:33 <op_4> wow that bot is fast
03:37:44 <op_4> anyway, i'm off to bed, see you all around
03:37:50 <pikhq> my job's a healthcare related startup. not the sexiest tech-wise but it's not bad and i like it
03:37:52 <pikhq> night
03:38:34 <pikhq> i'll probably do the same
03:38:47 * pikhq suspects her wife is gonna be up for a bit *shrug*
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05:50:59 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82186&oldid=82154 * Olus2000 * (-14)
05:59:50 <les-citrons> a
06:00:03 <les-citrons> toki ilo tan toki pona
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07:24:54 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82187&oldid=82186 * Olus2000 * (+219) Grammar explanation overhaul
07:26:26 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82188&oldid=82187 * Olus2000 * (-9) /* Verb sentences */
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08:11:54 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82189&oldid=82106 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (-1) /* Aheui */ Reduction
08:15:05 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82190&oldid=82189 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+53) /* 4 */
08:29:05 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82191&oldid=82190 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+348) /* Shakespeare */
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08:40:49 <lauraaah> Hi
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14:44:50 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82192&oldid=82139 * Hakerh400 * (-3) /* Logical implication */
14:50:07 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82193&oldid=82192 * Hakerh400 * (+89) /* Division */
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17:34:55 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82194&oldid=82191 * Strohtaler * (+505) Zirconium
17:36:40 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82195&oldid=82194 * Strohtaler * (+5) /* Zirconium */
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18:23:16 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82196&oldid=81926 * Leothetechguy * (-135)
18:23:35 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82197&oldid=82196 * Leothetechguy * (+1)
18:26:38 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82198&oldid=82197 * Leothetechguy * (-2)
18:40:00 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82199&oldid=82198 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
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18:43:17 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82200&oldid=82199 * Leothetechguy * (+4)
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19:13:41 <esowiki> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82201&oldid=82200 * Leothetechguy * (-9)
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23:03:16 <op_4> (off topic) I don't suppose anyone here is familiar with the gemini protocol
23:08:05 <zzo38> I am familiar with it.
23:09:59 <zzo38> Do you have other questions?
23:11:20 <op_4> Hah, i do, but i'm now realising i could possibly answer this in part for myself.
23:12:11 <op_4> I was wondering why a particular client decided that my page title for my index.gmi page should be "<contents of H1> - <URL>". Specifically i was wondering whether there was something in the spec that specified page titles
23:12:19 <op_4> but i can just look at the spec i suppose
23:12:56 <zzo38> I believe the specification recommends that. However, a client could be implemented differently (e.g. using only the H1 title or only the URL).
23:13:34 <op_4> Great, thanks. Yeah, for some reason my client does only "<contents of H1>" for some pages, but not others.
23:14:17 <op_4> anyway, this is as good an excuse as any to poke around with server software :)
23:16:36 <zzo38> I dislike that it requires TLS. My suggestion is to add a new URI scheme for the insecure version, perhaps "insecure-gemini://" can be used. Error codes that specify that a client certificate is required is not allowed in this case; if a client certificate is required, then the secure version must be used.
23:17:47 <zzo38> (This would be an optional feature, of course; but sometimes it might be useful, e.g. for testing purposes.)
23:18:49 <op_4> that's an interesting and reasonable compromise idea
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23:53:48 <esowiki> [[Project Euler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82202 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+549) Create
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00:27:47 * pikhq waves
00:51:09 <op_4> hey pikhq
01:02:16 * pikhq has had a fruitful day of professional computer-touching
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01:52:24 <esowiki> [[STOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82203&oldid=75117 * Mercerenies * (+38)
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03:44:36 <zzo38> Can you use hashes for random numbers? My idea is that the random number seed consists of two parts (which can contain arbitrary data), being the sequence number and the hash; use the hash of that as the random numbers, and then the next seed is the next sequence number (the initial sequence number can be any number, not necessarily zero) and the previous hash.
04:02:52 <imode> I don't see why not.
04:08:31 <zzo38> Does the method I suggested work?
04:36:08 <pikhq> that seems like it's basically just constructing a stream cipher out of a hash function?
04:37:04 <pikhq> while i wouldn't be confident without a cryptographer looking into it, there probably is an acceptable construction that looks something kind of like that
04:51:52 <zzo38> (The sequence number does not start at zero, because if it does, then it is possible to predict the random numbers.)
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06:18:05 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82204&oldid=81574 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+1873) /* C */
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07:08:12 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82205&oldid=82204 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+223) /* C */
07:10:38 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82206&oldid=81930 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+2129)
07:11:37 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82207&oldid=82206 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+17)
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10:59:27 <b_jonas> quick question. does git still only use sha-1 checksums, and how easy is it for a motivated attacker to mess up your repository by causing you to commit files with sha-1 collisions?
11:07:07 <fizzie> They did some sort of a pinpoint mitigation for the shattered.io attack that I forget the details of, but I don't think the more ambitious plan of moving entirely out of SHA-1 has happened yet.
11:08:03 <fizzie> https://git-scm.com/docs/hash-function-transition/ "Git v2.13.0 and later subsequently moved to a hardened SHA-1 implementation by default, which isn’t vulnerable to the SHAttered attack, but SHA-1 is still weak."
11:13:03 <b_jonas> I'm mostly asking because someone wants to use git for storing certain some data in the future, where I think it would be a bad idea to use git, not only because of the sha-1 but for other reasons too, and want to give arguments to change their mind
11:13:28 <b_jonas> fizzie: thanks
11:33:07 <nakilon> should use git if data is binary
11:33:11 <nakilon> for example
11:33:48 <nakilon> btw, wanted to ask
11:34:06 <nakilon> has anyone of you ever seen the accidental md5 collision?
11:34:15 <nakilon> in reality
11:34:47 <nakilon> in your real projects, not brought to you by upvoted funny blog posts
11:35:25 <nakilon> *should not
11:35:32 <nakilon> (typo in my first message)
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14:17:33 <int-e> Ah puzzles. https://paste.debian.net/1193985/ :)
14:19:14 <nakilon> the "(X moves first)" is tautology here
14:19:26 <int-e> I know that it can be inferred :)
14:20:32 <int-e> though it's not *quite* tautological... in Othello, O might have had the first move, but been forced to pass
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14:22:37 <int-e> And it actually turns out that the shortest Reversi games are one move shorter than the shortest Othello games.
14:24:34 <int-e> because in these positions with O to move, the game just ends: https://paste.debian.net/1193986/
14:28:42 <nakilon> oh, didn't know
14:29:17 <int-e> I had to check Wikipedia on the precise rules.
14:30:48 <int-e> Finally resolving a bit of cognitive dissonance that I've been suffering for a few decades :-P (because I learned the Reversi rules as a kid, and then I played Othello a lot on Windows, and the fixed starting pattern as well as the passing rule felt kind of wrong)
14:35:49 <int-e> (A possible solution is https://paste.debian.net/1193987/ ...not sure how feasible this is without a computer. But I liked the diamond shape, that was unexpected.)
14:37:44 <fizzie> Out of those, I've just played Reversi on Windows 1.02. Not sure whether its exact rules match the name.
14:38:14 <nakilon> there was reversi on zx spectrum
14:38:19 <nakilon> couldn't beat it
14:38:37 <nakilon> actually there were all kinds of games with difficulty levels we couldn't beat
14:38:44 <nakilon> chess, gomoku
14:40:15 <fizzie> The Windows 1.02 version has a "Skill" level selector (Beginner/Novice/Expert/Master), but I've no idea which one (if any) I could beat.
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14:43:25 <nakilon> we had this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyDSL_iJx2o
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14:45:34 <nakilon> my favourite logic game on spectrum was...
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14:51:40 <nakilon> can't find it (
14:51:51 <nakilon> it was like reversi on hexagonal field
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14:52:41 <nakilon> and you have not to make more pieces of your color but fill more triangle sectors in between the hexagonal field lines
14:53:05 <nakilon> every time you surround a triangle you permanently draw it to your color
15:01:38 <nakilon> found it; the only video unfortunately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mtrim1u94
15:01:54 <nakilon> it does not show the second player to draw any triangles
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17:37:40 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82208&oldid=82188 * Olus2000 * (+22) /* Verb sentences */ kipisi argument description update
17:38:11 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82209&oldid=82208 * Olus2000 * (+6) /* Verb sentences */ grammar in kipisi description
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18:13:52 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82210&oldid=82183 * Makonede * (+82)
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22:02:48 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_raffle "Care must be taken with seafood trays given the propensity for the contents to spoil in the heat as the lucky winner continues drinking; often a friendly publican will store the tray in the fridge until the winner is sufficiently refreshed and ready to head home.[citation needed]"
22:02:53 <fizzie> Ah, Wikipedia, never change.
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00:11:34 <zzo38> One of my ideas of web browser is that extensions can be written in C or in JavaScript; they are not limited to only JavaScript. Another idea is cookie notification in the status line; if the user ignores it then the cookie is set (or not set, if cookies are disabled), but the user can push the keys to customize the cookies it just received.
00:11:51 <zzo38> (Cookies can also be edited later at any time.)
00:13:17 <zzo38> In Firefox, you can push ALT+ENTER in the location bar to open it in a new tab. With the relative location bar feature, this is useful, so this can be retained. And then, SHIFT+ENTER and CTRL+ENTER can be used for other things, such as to edit the request headers (and possibly make a POST request), or to bypass the cache.
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02:37:46 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82211&oldid=82210 * Makonede * (+21)
02:37:54 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82212&oldid=82211 * Makonede * (+2)
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05:32:11 <zzo38> I wrote a program to download a specified version of a program from a fossil repository: http://sprunge.us/IHCjWI
05:32:16 <zzo38> Do you like this?
05:36:14 <zzo38> Maybe a mode should be added to verify a PGP signature.
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10:32:06 <fizzie> Hmm, MediaWiki 1.35 bundles Extension:VisualEditor now. Wonder if that'd be worth enabling.
10:47:03 <int-e> it might reduce the number of microedits a bit, and maybe people actually like it?
10:48:13 <int-e> and I'm reading between the lines that users can disable it if they hate it
10:49:10 <int-e> (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor#Activating_VisualEditor_by_default ... assuming you don't do the $wgHiddenPrefs[] = 'visualeditor-enable'; thing, and why would you?)
10:49:33 <fizzie> Yeah, AIUI you can do it on an opt-in or an opt-out basis.
10:53:42 <int-e> I don't particularly care about the default. opt-out means people will actually try it out, while with opt-in it may not be used at all
10:55:04 <b_jonas> int-e: in the bubble I live in, most people hate the visual editor
10:55:32 <b_jonas> it's especially the users who clean up after newbies using the visual editor who hate it
10:56:54 <int-e> b_jonas: Ah, do you have an example of such a cleanup? (Not urgent, I'm just wondering what kind if things would get messed up.)