←2016-08 2016-09 2016-10→ ↑2016 ↑all
2016-09-01
00:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking about extending http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3920 with (a) a more consensus-based system (rather than a single anomalous objection preventing the marriage, the entire assemblage must agree- so even if one person is 5 sigma against this marriage, if the other people lean towards it more than average then it is canceled out because people anti-object) and (b) an additional "trust factor" that allows the couple to
00:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> acknowledge that the groom's alcoholic brother Jeff's opinions really don't matter to them as much as the Bride's [kindly old Mother who's bravely fighting a terminal liver cancer so she can see her daughter married]'s opinion
00:02:28 <hppavilion[1]> The system works like this
00:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> Each guest to the wedding is entered into a database and associated with one party (either the bride or the groom)
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00:05:43 <hppavilion[1]> (+1s, by the way, are not permitted to object; people likely to go together are issued a "joint invitation" that serves essentially as 2 invitations without +1 capabilities OR as a single ticket with one permitted +1, rather than issuing one of them a standard invitation under the expectation that the other one will be their +1)
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00:08:21 <hppavilion[1]> Prior to the wedding, the bride and groom are taken into separate rooms and given a list of guests. For each guest, they assign that guest a trust rating (any nonnegative real number will do). Each party also has the option to mark guests associated with the other party as "null" or "mirror", which is basically saying "assign me at the same trust rating as my prospective spouse"
00:09:23 <myname> or, you know, they can just give a fuck about objections
00:09:38 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm humorously doing advanced statistics for weddings
00:09:44 <hppavilion[1]> ~advanced
00:11:12 <hppavilion[1]> (Let G be the set of all guests, G_B be the set of all guests associated with the bride, G_F be the set of all guests associated with the groom, T_B(g) be the bride's trust ratings (T_B : G -> R), and T_F(g) be the groom's trust ratings (id))
00:12:24 <hppavilion[1]> (note here that we're assuming a heterosexual marriage; homosexual marriages follow the same process, but should likely use a separate database of past objections for the time being, given the stigma)
00:12:42 <hppavilion[1]> (group marriages, I have no idea what to do, but it'd likely be similar)
00:15:34 <hppavilion[1]> Next, T_B(g) and T_F(g) are normalized to 100 with a standard deviation of 15
00:16:35 <hppavilion[1]> (call these T'_B(g) and T'_F(g))
00:17:09 <hppavilion[1]> Let T(g) = (T'_B(g)+T'_F(g))/2, which represents overall trust
00:18:38 <hppavilion[1]> T_mean is the mean of T(g) forall g in G
00:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> Then, at the part of the wedding ceremony where objections are given, each eligible guest submits an objection in the interval [0,1]
00:20:19 <hppavilion[1]> Call the objection of guest g O(g)
00:22:16 <hppavilion[1]> The standard wedding objection is calculated (take the output of this algorithm at all previous weddings, average them, subtract each individual wedding's result from the average, square these, divide by the total number of weddings, take the square root)
00:24:20 <hppavilion[1]> For each guest g, find T(g)*O(g)^2, sum these values, divide by T_mean*|G|, take the square root
00:24:40 <hppavilion[1]> Call this TO (Total Objection)
00:25:06 <hppavilion[1]> Submit TO to the server for consideration in future weddings
00:25:24 <hppavilion[1]> With the earlier-found Standard Wedding Objection SO
00:26:04 <hppavilion[1]> And the Wedding Objection Standard Deviation WOSD
00:26:09 <hppavilion[1]> See if TO-SO≥WOSD
00:26:31 <hppavilion[1]> And that's my badly-statisticated text wall
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00:39:39 <boily> Kayryluu kerjanch!
00:40:22 <quintopia> coily!
00:41:24 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA!
00:42:49 <oerjan> arghoily
00:43:43 <boily> I kept the "yr" theme from yesterday ^^
00:43:55 <oerjan> ENOTHELPING
00:44:21 <oerjan> doesn't seem to have vowel harmony...
00:44:29 <boily> hint: transliterated.
00:44:47 <oerjan> from cyrillic?
00:44:54 <boily> yup.
00:45:30 <oerjan> hm but can y be a back vowel, otherwise i'd still say no vowel harmony.
00:45:32 <quintopia> is it one of those dying azerbaijani languages?
00:45:34 <oerjan> or wait
00:46:15 <oerjan> hm caucasian you mean?
00:46:33 <oerjan> i wouldn't know those, anyway :(
00:46:44 <quintopia> like Udi--only like 6600 recorded speakers
00:46:56 <oerjan> i'm just wondering if it could be a turkish language.
00:47:10 <boily> it is a Turkic language.
00:47:13 <oerjan> ooh
00:47:20 <quintopia> hoily
00:47:27 <boily> oohoily?
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00:48:13 <oerjan> hm i can rattle off some names that i'm not sure whether are turkic or indo-aryan
00:48:24 <quintopia> hoily shit ;P
00:48:29 <oerjan> turkmen, uzbek or such
00:48:47 <oerjan> (i.e. those ex-cccp states)
00:48:59 <boily> not turkmen, not uzbek.
00:49:07 <oerjan> ooh or kazakh
00:49:33 * oerjan might not be spelling them correctly, anyway
00:50:43 <boily> not kazakh!
00:51:14 <quintopia> kazakh sounds like a hacking cough
00:51:41 <oerjan> azeri wasn't _officially_ mentioned yet, i think
00:52:21 <boily> not azeri.
00:52:38 <oerjan> i may be out of plausibly turkic language names :(
00:53:02 <boily> it's Kyrgyz.
00:53:08 <oerjan> dran
00:53:11 <boily> quintopia: it really sounds like a cough. /qɑˈzɑq/
00:53:16 <oerjan> the one state i forgot :P
00:53:54 <oerjan> nah kazakh is all apples
00:56:51 <oerjan> boily: i'm pretty sure either the cyrillic or the transliteration on omniglot's page is misspelled
00:57:14 <oerjan> (the y and r are swapped)
00:57:17 <boily> ah fungot.
00:57:17 <fungot> boily: sorry if i seem brusque, but it doesn't rank very high on the richter scale? :) maybe its a charity fnord"
00:57:34 <boily> fungot: t'es pas brusque, juste un fungot.
00:57:34 <fungot> boily: how'd you do ( eval2...) with ( a c d) evaluate to zero when serialized))
01:00:11 <lynn> Wow, charity fnords
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01:03:13 <hppavilion[1]> How about first person narration, but using first-person plural pronouns ("we", "us")
01:03:47 * oerjan finds a kyrgyz word кайың on wiktionary, but its meaning is "birch"
01:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheVirginSuicides does that
01:04:52 <oerjan> hm кеч is evening
01:05:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: have you ever read math papers those are like that hth
01:05:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well yeah, but they're also anti-fiction
01:05:50 <hppavilion[1]> (as opposed to non-fiction or fiction)
01:06:38 <hppavilion[1]> (anti-fiction is purer than non-fiction in that anti-fiction is definitely, 100%, provably objectively true, whereas non-fiction is laced with opinions and point-of-view bias)
01:06:41 <boily> math is fictional. ask any mathematician hth
01:11:09 <quintopia> confirmed
01:11:50 <quintopia> but at least it's a fiction that's more consistent with humanity's perception of the behavior of the universe than any other fictions out there
01:12:08 <quintopia> i'll take "math says so" over "god says so" any day of the week
01:12:30 <oerjan> i find a claim that кайрылуу means "case", and that has more google hits than the original spelling.
01:12:53 <oerjan> boily: i'm starting to suspect that omniglot entry is nonsense :P
01:13:28 <boily> it has кеч!
01:13:40 <oerjan> indeed, but the other words seems dubious.
01:13:43 <oerjan> *-s
01:13:58 <oerjan> hm maybe i should google the whole phrase.
01:16:01 <oerjan> unswapped has 382 hits, swapped 8.
01:18:09 <oerjan> the first became 29 after flipping pages.
01:18:45 <oerjan> it's so few you could suspect them all to come from the same flawed source.
01:19:50 <boily> fungot: which languages do you speak?
01:19:51 <fungot> boily: i think that syntactic environments are _much_ more easily expressed with one type of oo
01:19:58 <boily> oerjan: that wouldn't surprise me at all.
01:20:12 <boily> fungot: oo oo ooooooo ooo ō ooo?
01:20:12 <fungot> boily: i could be wrong, but lisppaste is at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ display/ 4532
01:21:15 <oerjan> fungot: i'm pretty sure boily's line wasn't lisp.
01:21:16 <fungot> oerjan: calamari's here. it's not the only barrier, if it somehow clears those two hw banging instructions, that bound instruction is likely to be that
01:22:42 <boily> fungot: oooh, calamari! calamari is delicious.
01:22:42 <fungot> boily: no, sorry, heh :) well, i'm with jeffie there. ( irc limitations)
01:22:43 <oerjan> otoh the phrases in omniglot are provided by someone with an appropriate sounding name...
01:22:52 <boily> fungot: yes it is.
01:22:52 <fungot> boily: might i ask what this is doing here
01:23:01 <oerjan> (Chyngyz Dzhumaliev)
01:23:03 <boily> fungot: it is doing being flavourful hth
01:23:04 <fungot> boily: i'm also wondering whether perhaps other browsers are a bit less than males can get pregnant with some caos
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01:23:11 <boily> oerjan: sounds legit.
01:23:57 <oerjan> boily: i don't calamari wants you to eat him, otoh he hasn't been here in a long while.
01:24:38 <oerjan> *don't think
01:24:57 * oerjan thinks the fnords are stealing his words
01:24:57 * boily tripped on oerjan's sentence. brain sprain.
01:25:15 <oerjan> boily: SOWWY
01:25:20 <boily> OKAY
01:27:18 <boily> fungot: haven't you ever wished to swap fnords and fjords, maybe just for a day?
01:27:18 <fungot> boily: xhtml doesn't render portably. hence the slowness in modern machines is due to the choice to use c++ analogies)
01:27:21 <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:27:46 <boily> hppavellon[1]. eh?
01:28:01 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, fuck
01:28:07 <hppavilion[1]> s/.*//
01:28:14 <oerjan> boily: wikitravel suggests the more logical (given the other entries in omniglot) Kutmanduu kechingiz menen.
01:28:29 <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to tell Greece that we're making Lesbos an independent country
01:30:15 <oerjan> boily: i think fnord should be inflected the same as icelandic fjord, anyway.
01:30:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think they like to spell it Lesvos these days, for obvious reasons.
01:30:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Damn.
01:31:22 <hppavilion[1]> Well, time to find a dictionary genie
01:31:41 <hppavilion[1]> Lesvian (n): A female who is attracted to females
01:31:51 <boily> fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar...
01:31:54 <oerjan> `addquote <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:31:56 <HackEgo> 1288) <hppavilion[1]> I think we need to make Greece an independent country
01:32:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Hey, I never said that
01:32:22 <oerjan> yes you did.
01:32:30 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No, I didn't
01:32:52 <hppavilion[1]> I am of the opinion that using s/// isn't just correct a mistake- it undoes it
01:33:06 <hppavilion[1]> Once s/// has been used, the mistake is erased from all of time and space
01:33:12 <oerjan> i am of the opposite opinion hth
01:33:18 <boily> shh... is okay now... you will be PDFed...
01:34:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: anyway, you are now in the quotes in the proud tradition of itidus hth
01:34:08 <oerjan> `quote itidus
01:34:09 <HackEgo> 394) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent <oklopol> for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 415) <itidus20> monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 416) <monqy> itidus20: i s
01:34:46 <hppavilion[1]> Wat?
01:34:57 <hppavilion[1]> Was itidus20 constantly stoned?
01:35:02 <hppavilion[1]> `quote matrix of solidity
01:35:02 <HackEgo> 240) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
01:35:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we have no disproof of that hth
01:37:08 <oerjan> <boily> fjord, fjordn, fjordr, fjordet, fjordar... <-- no, it's more glorious than that. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fj%C3%B6r%C3%B0ur
01:40:14 <boily> I couldn't have dreamt it better.
01:40:57 <oerjan> i know right?
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02:11:35 <Sgeo> kmc linked to this: http://inutile.club/estatis/falso/
02:13:01 <alercah> the best thing about Falso is that it is consistent
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02:19:33 <zzo38> How can it be consistent if everything is true?
02:20:56 <Sgeo> zzo38, that's easy to prove, just use the axiom
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02:25:31 <Ashura> Hello
02:25:53 <Sgeo> Hi Ashura
02:27:48 <oerjan> `welcome Ashura
02:27:49 <HackEgo> Ashura: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:28:58 <Ashura> Javascript quine: !function $(){console.log("!" + $ + "()")}()
02:30:12 <zzo38> It is work
02:30:22 <oerjan> nice
02:30:23 <Ashura> I don't know if a quine is possible in Bugmaker.
02:32:02 <Ashura> Instead of writing "SET X = 1 + 1", you'd have to write "DO SET THE VARIABLE NAMED X = EXACTLY 1 + 1 NOW".
02:35:55 <zzo38> Let's see if we can make a quine with the standard TAVERN compiler? (It is a program I wrote but I did not intend to make a quine out of it)
02:37:06 <zzo38> (To see if it can be done without having the program read its own source file at compile time)
02:37:42 <\oren\> `unicode STAR
02:37:42 <HackEgo> U+0001 <control> \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal: &#1; \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 <control> \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal: &#2; \ \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0086 <control> \ UTF-8: c2 86 UTF-16BE: 0086 Decimal: &#134; \ † \ Category: Cc (Ot
02:43:02 <Ashura> Try to run THIS: ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
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02:51:56 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
02:52:01 <fungot> Ash ...out of time!
02:52:06 <oerjan> oops
02:52:20 <oerjan> `! bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.
02:52:51 <HackEgo> Ash
02:52:55 <oerjan> Ashura: seems a bit heavy
02:53:10 <oerjan> is it supposed to write more than 3 letters
02:53:42 <oerjan> `echo hi
02:53:42 <HackEgo> hi
02:54:35 <oerjan> `cat ibin/bf
02:54:36 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$I_CMD" | sed 's/.*bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW
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02:56:23 <oerjan> `` \! 'bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->++ +<]>++.' | ord
02:56:54 <HackEgo> No output.
02:56:57 <oerjan> hmph
03:03:19 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[—>+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:03:24 <fungot> Ash ...out of time!
03:03:36 * oerjan has no idea why that would timeout.
03:04:08 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:04:09 <fungot> Asheb1
03:04:20 <oerjan> hm curious
03:04:33 <oerjan> i think there's a bug, but it still shouldn't timeout.
03:04:49 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:05:38 <oerjan> now what.
03:05:43 <Robdgreat> where do we go from here
03:05:45 <oerjan> ^echo hi
03:06:08 <oerjan> i think fungot has trouble :(
03:06:58 <fungot> Asheb1
03:06:58 <fungot> hi hi
03:06:58 <fungot> oerjan: ( fun with scope!), and the " include " prescheme.h"" line is not.
03:07:04 <oerjan> ah
03:07:17 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:07:17 <fungot> Asheb1
03:08:11 <oerjan> `unidecode .[—>+<]>
03:08:12 <HackEgo> ​[U+002E FULL STOP] [U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+2014 EM DASH] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+003C LESS-THAN SIGN] [U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN]
03:08:32 <oerjan> EM DASH
03:08:40 <oerjan> Ashura: THAT'S EVIL
03:08:47 <oerjan> hm...
03:08:55 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[-->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:08:55 <fungot> Ash1.•
03:09:04 <oerjan> ^bf ----[---->+<]>++.--[----->+<]>.-----------.[--->+<]>---.---.+++[->+++<]>++.
03:09:04 <fungot> Ashura
03:09:07 <oerjan> there you go
03:09:53 <oerjan> Ashura: your --- got turned into an em dash by some too-clever editor, me thinks.
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03:12:29 <oerjan> ಠ_ಠ
03:13:50 <oerjan> my curse of bad timing hits again. now food ->
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03:22:24 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an alt-left?
03:23:39 <hppavilion[1]> "Liberal conservatism is a political ideology combining conservative policies with liberal stances"
03:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> So... "The gays should be allowed to get married, and if President, I promise to get Congress to pass a law defining marriage as between one man, one woman, with additional taxes every year the mother isn't Pregnant or actively raising a child under the age of 4, and both must be virgins"
03:28:09 <alercah> there is not an alt-left
03:29:38 <hppavilion[1]> "Traditionalist Liberalism"
03:30:00 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: Wait, what about the SJWs?
03:30:35 <alercah> alt-right is a specific group of people who self-identify
03:30:47 <alercah> it's not an "academic" (read: outside) term
03:31:07 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
03:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: Well also, the "alt-right" is a branch of the Right with certain distinguishing characteristics
03:32:06 <hppavilion[1]> So the alt-left would be a part of the left with similar (or analogous) characteristics
03:32:18 <alercah> such as racism?
03:32:34 <\oren\> alt-right used to be a tiny group of twitter trolls that grew out of gay nazis and gamergate
03:32:35 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
03:32:44 <hppavilion[1]> Bah1
03:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> *Bah!
03:32:54 <hppavilion[1]> I was more-or-less a fan of gamergate
03:33:02 <hppavilion[1]> (at least, the general gist of it)
03:33:24 <\oren\> now that hillary has mentioned them on a national stage, they are becoming a giant group that will influence american politics for yers to come
03:33:34 <alercah> gamergate was kind of ok when it was about ethics in journalism
03:33:39 <alercah> the moment it wasn't it should have died
03:33:49 <alercah> (that is, the moment it was revealed it was false)
03:33:54 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: Yeah, pretty much
03:34:47 <\oren\> hillary mentioning "alt-right" on a national stage was giant blunder imo, because now the trump voters have a label that they can carry even if trump loses
03:36:05 <\oren\> it was equivalent to creating a viral meme against your own ideology
03:36:15 <\oren\> huge blunder
03:36:32 <hppavilion[1]> The alt-right is associated with white nationalism, white supremacism, antisemitism, right-wing populism, nativism, and the neoreactionary movement
03:36:47 <\oren\> and anti-feminism
03:37:09 <hppavilion[1]> Hey, I'm anti-feminist and I'm NOT alt-right
03:37:45 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: anyway, the alt right will grow to just mean people who voted for trump in this election
03:37:47 <hppavilion[1]> (assuming feminists in this context mean third wavers. Classical (first-wave, maybe second-wave) feminism is cool.)
03:38:21 <hppavilion[1]> So the alt-left would be overly multicultural/diversity-yay (not to the point of "yeah, diversity is cool", but more "if your thing isn't diverse enough you're a bad person"- affirmative action and such)
03:38:36 <\oren\> or maybe a raaction to that
03:39:00 <hppavilion[1]> White responsibilitism (or whatever), which is "today's whites are responsible for our ancestors oppressing today's blacks ancestors, and should have to pay reparation
03:39:03 <hppavilion[1]> "
03:39:34 <hppavilion[1]> antisemitism becomes... not sure, yelling "islamophobia" whenever someone criticizes Islam?
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03:40:26 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: keep in mind that alt-right isn't a more extreme version of right
03:40:37 <hppavilion[1]> right-wing populism into... I guess the "if you don't let people freely immigrate from the middle east you're a racist"
03:40:48 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it rejects many aspects of normal american right-wing
03:41:14 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: It's the right, rotated 15 to 30 degrees clockwise, I think?
03:41:16 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: for example, the alt-right are pro-gay rights
03:41:22 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, really?
03:41:31 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, I thought they were trump supporters...
03:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> I thought this was libertarians...
03:41:58 <\oren\> yes, one of their main proponents is a certain gay reporter named milo yiannopoulos aka "@nero"
03:42:12 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes, milo yiannopoulos
03:42:37 <hppavilion[1]> Not entirely agreeable, but a lot of the people against him (going around and tearing down posters for his events) are worse
03:43:05 <hppavilion[1]> And I guess right-wing populism also becomes "the status quo is necessarily bad"
03:43:15 <hppavilion[1]> Preserving the status quo isn't a bad thing when you have a utopia
03:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> Nativism becomes... I guess "immigrants should have a favored status to native citizens", but I don't think even the SJWs have that...
03:45:55 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, yeah, I share about... 40% of conflicted opinions with him?
03:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bindel
03:46:53 <hppavilion[1]> Wow
03:47:13 <hppavilion[1]> She has an organization that "helps women who have been prosecuted for killing violent male partners."
03:47:20 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, sure, but what if the genders are inverted?
03:48:50 <alercah> yeah abusive relationships are one of the few cases where there's actual legitimate sexism in favour of women
03:49:14 <alercah> iirc they cut roughtly equally both ways
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04:03:46 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
04:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to remember hearing that the Violence Against Women Act established that law enforcement has to use a specific test to determine action in domestic abuse calls
04:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> And it assumes the guilt of a man, innocence of a woman
04:04:41 <hppavilion[1]> But I've never been able to find such a thing
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04:22:45 <alercah> "8) NONEXCLUSIVITY.—Nothing in this title shall be construed
04:22:46 <alercah> to prohibit male victims of domestic violence, dating
04:22:46 <alercah> violence, sexual assault, and stalking from receiving benefits
04:22:46 <alercah> and services under this title.
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06:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> Poe's law is kind of stupid
06:09:15 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, people can identify satire when they see it online
06:09:19 <hppavilion[1]> People aren't THAT stupid
06:09:43 <Hoolootwo> it is 100% possible to troll so hard that nobody notices
06:12:17 <zzo38> I am not so sure of either
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06:15:04 <oerjan> i'll just assume hppavilion[1] is applying poe's law to itself.
06:16:23 <oerjan> also, i thought the point was that it is 100% possible to have so crazy really opinions that everybody suspects you're doing satire.
06:16:30 <oerjan> *real
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06:17:16 <Hoolootwo> yes, which is functionally very similar to having really crazy satire and everybody suspecting you have really crazy opinions
06:17:21 <oerjan> you know, i'm starting to tire of how irssi shows only part of the line i'm writing, so i keep making these garden path errors.
06:17:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well, that's a possible Corollary to Poe's law, but it doesn't directly follow
06:17:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's not a corollary, it's a lemma that's part of its proof hth
06:18:04 <hppavilion[1]> Is it?
06:18:09 <hppavilion[1]> I guess it could be
06:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> We must also assume that trolls are indistinguishable from genuine believers beyond content (so trolls don't just have linguistic flags or somesuch)
06:19:09 <oerjan> heh
06:19:17 <oerjan> that's not always the case
06:20:17 <oerjan> many people troll without enough depth of knowledge to be convincing.
06:21:04 <hppavilion[1]> What sufficiently advanced thing is indistinguishable from /dark/ magic?
06:21:24 <Hoolootwo> light magic, duh
06:21:37 * Hoolootwo poofs
06:21:38 <hppavilion[1]> (Actuarial science?)
06:21:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: grey goo hth
06:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> When I build world-eating nanobots, I will make sure they are hot pink
06:22:25 <hppavilion[1]> No one will ever see it coming
06:22:35 <oerjan> also, artificial black holes.
06:22:43 <oerjan> that's pretty dark.
06:25:59 <Hoolootwo> except the people here will see it coming
06:26:04 <Hoolootwo> you have to kill us first
06:27:57 <oerjan> just spread a virus that modifies color vision first
06:28:02 * hppavilion[1] reaches for his swatter, but then realized he is not oerjan
06:28:15 * hppavilion[1] prays he didn't mix up oerjan and \oren\ again
06:28:40 <\oren\> you didnt
06:28:49 * oerjan has no idea how people mix us up, anyway.
06:29:20 <Hoolootwo> maybe you have nearly identically-pronounced names
06:29:39 <Hoolootwo> as long as you don't speak english hth
06:29:54 <\oren\> ❄ping
06:29:54 <\oren\> pong
06:30:34 <hppavilion[1]> yeah
06:30:45 <oerjan> you mean as long as you _do_ speak english.
06:30:56 <hppavilion[1]> One is an oer*n and the other is an ore*n
06:31:50 <hppavilion[1]> No, "or-en" and "oh-er-jan (yan?)" are pretty different in English
06:31:59 <hppavilion[1]> But everone on this channel speaks english
06:32:05 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, except for the Venezuelans)
06:32:23 <Hoolootwo> I pronounce internet people's names as if they're German and I have no idea why
06:32:35 <Hoolootwo> my first language is english so that's super weird
06:32:39 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: I just don't read them out loud, and pronunciation stays in my head
06:32:47 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, that is pretty weird
06:33:30 <Hoolootwo> yeah, that too, but I pronounce them in my head (or something?)
06:33:31 <hppavilion[1]> (people sometimes pronounce "hppavilion1" as "hap-pavilion one"; it should be pronounced "H. P. pavilion one"
06:34:22 <Hoolootwo> you'd have to know about Hewlett-Packard to get it right on the first try
06:34:53 <hppavilion[1]> "This year there are no rules. There are, however, a whole bunch of brutal laws, traditions, commandments, and decrees, plus some rules."
06:35:06 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: Yeah, and no one will know about that soon
06:35:15 <hppavilion[1]> The business will die, and I'll swoop in and buy the trademark
06:36:19 <Hoolootwo> hmm, I should buy their calculator division
06:36:26 <Hoolootwo> apparently still a thing?
06:41:36 <oerjan> i'd recommend getting their addition and multiplication too
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07:01:46 <\oren\> I wonder what will happen if I do this:
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07:03:11 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently nothing
07:03:45 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276"'
07:03:46 <HackEgo> ​￾
07:03:49 <hppavilion[1]> (Never think about kid's TV too much. I tried to figure out how the name "Uncle Grandpa" works.)
07:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> (your parents would need to be an uncle/niece or aunt/nephew pair, with UG the sibling of one and the parent of the other)
07:04:43 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print"\357\277\276\302\244"'
07:04:43 <HackEgo> ​￾¤
07:05:08 <\oren\> apparently irssi is unaware that FFFE isn't a valid character
07:05:45 <\oren\> So I will need a glyph for it in my font
07:07:37 <lifthrasiir> it is a "non-character" but still valid
07:18:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: my uncle once was married to my aunt's boyfriend's daughter, that _almost_ makes my aunt both aunt and grandma to some of my cousins hth
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07:20:43 <oerjan> oh and i guess her boyfriend was both uncle and grandpa, then.
07:21:00 <oerjan> (almost. i don't think they got married.)
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07:37:40 <izabera> writing a sort(1) is hard x.x
07:37:44 <izabera> the key part
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08:05:35 <lifthrasiir> izabera: with tons of options?
08:05:39 <lifthrasiir> or just the buffering scheme?
08:06:45 <lifthrasiir> I believe GNU sort (and probably others) is using mergesort with a certain amount of data buffered for the potentially faster algorithm
08:08:01 <lifthrasiir> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/sort.c ...and holy cow it's a lot of code
08:08:55 <int-e> well, external sorting... perallel sorting... lots of code to support various key comparisons... it all adds up
08:09:09 <int-e> (just looking at the manpage)
08:09:22 <hppavilion[1]> Oh god
08:09:26 <hppavilion[1]> I just learned about Democratic White House High School AU,
08:09:27 <izabera> the annoying part is that each key can be sorted indipendently
08:09:34 <int-e> why haven't I used sort -h
08:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> It looks like it was on Livejournal, and I can't access it
08:09:42 <hppavilion[1]> But the idea is amazing(ly funny)
08:09:48 <izabera> like, you can sort key 1 numerically, then one alphabetically in reverse order, etc
08:09:49 <hppavilion[1]> It's the real world, but in a high school setting
08:10:29 <izabera> and e.g. you can do -k1.4,1.7n
08:10:40 <izabera> which sorts numerically on the first key from character 4 to 7
08:10:56 <int-e> so you have a key description and an interpreter for it... perhaps 70 lines of code in addition to the basic comparisons?
08:10:58 <hppavilion[1]> (changing the idea a bit for more funny), typical politicians are students, the Media forms teachers ("Who do you have for FTFO?" "Mr. Stewart")
08:11:32 <izabera> int-e: the rest of my sort is ~130 lines so adding 70 is a lot
08:12:20 <hppavilion[1]> (Teachers might be former presidents...)
08:12:26 <hppavilion[1]> US government in a high school. I would love that.
08:12:40 <Jafet> don't forget to sort according to the current locale
08:12:47 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I should join the school's student government. As Secretary of Defence. )
08:14:47 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], my uni's SU once had a pirate president
08:15:21 <izabera> what's an SU?
08:15:37 <izabera> super user
08:17:01 <shachaf> special unitary group
08:17:56 <Taneb> Student Union
08:21:04 <izabera> and the most boring answer award goes to...
08:23:12 <Taneb> The Soviet Union!
08:23:14 <shachaf> Taneb invented SU9N0
08:23:48 <shachaf> Er, SU(n)
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08:27:20 <Taneb> izabera, it's not that boring, it used to have a pirate president
08:29:11 <izabera> pirate as in installing photoshop or as in one piece?
08:30:21 <Taneb> Closer to the latter
08:31:11 <shachaf> maybe closer to eight pieces?
08:35:38 <Taneb> https://youtu.be/S3a7Q9GowoQ?t=27
08:43:01 <Taneb> Apparently he was fairly good as student union presidents go
08:46:08 <izabera> their acting could use some improvements
08:51:03 <myname> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/keystroke_recog.html creepy
08:53:10 <izabera> isn't everything on that blog creepy?
08:56:31 <myname> valid point
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09:10:38 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Soviet Union is USSR
09:10:45 <hppavilion[1]> In Soviet Russia, USSR is YOU
09:10:54 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, perfect linesync. Yay.
09:11:01 <hppavilion[1]> Bah! So close to a triple!
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10:43:22 <b_jonas> fungot, can you ead MFT?
10:43:22 <fungot> b_jonas: ( fnord object object message args)) would be the
10:43:58 <b_jonas> fungot: it's not quite *that* simple
10:43:58 <fungot> b_jonas: eval ( call-with-values ( lambda ( x) x
10:44:18 <b_jonas> `wisdom
10:44:20 <HackEgo> eurovision//Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing.
10:45:49 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man
10:45:49 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=man-to-man: b_jonas
10:46:42 <b_jonas> nice! Savage Chickens is celebrating its 3000th strip
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13:35:51 <b_jonas> `make
13:35:52 <HackEgo> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
13:36:08 <b_jonas> ``` make it stop
13:36:08 <HackEgo> make: *** No rule to make target `it'. Stop.
13:40:31 <gamemanj> I think make wants you to stop
13:40:38 <gamemanj> could be wrong though
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13:49:40 <Jafet> `` make $'\bdead'
13:49:42 <HackEgo> make: *** No rule to make target `dead'. Stop.
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14:18:58 <myname> https://gist.github.com/forairan/b1143f42883b3b0ee1237bc9bd0b7b2c
14:20:16 <b_jonas> fungot, did you know I'm older than Linux?
14:20:16 <fungot> b_jonas: presumably you read the sisc documentation doesn't seem to work together is to convince some pirate that acm actually stores porn. main difference being in the same running sisc process?
14:20:27 <b_jonas> WHAT
14:20:44 <myname> b_jonas: nothing to brag. i am as old as perl!
14:21:47 <b_jonas> myname: you can you tell? nobody knows how old perl is, because the history of perl before perl 1 is classified.
14:22:24 <myname> based on the release date noted on wikipedia
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15:52:33 <b_jonas> `card-by-name sigarda's
15:52:34 <HackEgo> Sigarda's Aid \ W \ Enchantment \ You may cast Aura and Equipment spells as though they had flash. \ Whenever an Equipment enters the battlefield under your control, you may attach it to target creature you control. \ EMN-R
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16:31:52 <\oren\> Falcon 9 exploded on launchpad
16:32:18 <\oren\> payload lost, launch tower probably also lost
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16:34:27 <b_jonas> \oren\: an investigation will be launched
16:36:01 <gamemanj> in happier news, FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A!
16:36:55 <zzo38> What are those numbers for?
16:37:08 <\oren\> `` xxd -rp <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A"
16:37:09 <HackEgo> ​...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................øô.åÿ€.ÿÀGZ
16:37:26 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A"
16:37:26 <HackEgo> ​ÿøô.åÿ€.ÿÀGZ
16:37:36 <b_jonas> gamemanj: er what?
16:37:44 <b_jonas> what's that mean?
16:37:48 <gamemanj> Should I give a hint?
16:37:58 <b_jonas> wait
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16:38:44 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" >gunzip -
16:38:46 <HackEgo> No output.
16:38:49 <gamemanj> b_jonas: Do alert me when you want the hint.
16:38:51 <\oren\> `` xxd -r -p <<<"FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 16 7F FF 80 00 7F FF 03 C0 47 5A" |gunzip -
16:38:51 <HackEgo> ​ \ gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
16:39:00 <\oren\> `revert
16:39:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
16:39:31 <gamemanj> oren: Want the hint, or not?
16:39:40 <b_jonas> gamemanj: that looks like an MPEG header
16:39:43 <b_jonas> you can give the hint
16:39:50 <gamemanj> So close with MPEG!
16:39:59 <gamemanj> In fact, they explicitly did things to the sync code,
16:40:08 <b_jonas> it's probably not a whole MPEG file (or some trivially empty one), it's too small for that
16:40:09 <gamemanj> so that an MPEG decoder would NOT get it confused.
16:40:09 <\oren\> maybe it's jpeg?
16:40:14 <gamemanj> Not JPEG, either.
16:40:40 <gamemanj> Also note that this format usually has framing, but if you pass it to the decoder, it'll accept it anyway.
16:41:04 <b_jonas> \oren\: not jpeg
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16:41:58 <b_jonas> gamemanj: is it a bug test case, as in, a file that gets some mpeg player or other program confused and crash or something?
16:42:02 <gamemanj> Nope.
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16:42:18 <gamemanj> It's a totally legitimate file, if you discount the lack of header.
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16:43:35 <b_jonas> gamemanj: apparently it might be an audio-only file
16:43:41 <gamemanj> Yep! It is!
16:43:45 <zzo38> My own computer says AAC (although I have no program to play such a file)
16:43:51 <gamemanj> Nope, not AAC.
16:44:31 <b_jonas> I don't have a speaker here, so I can't listen to it
16:44:39 <gamemanj> Do you have Audacity?
16:44:51 <b_jonas> but it does seem to start to play without errors
16:45:04 <gamemanj> If you want to cheat, Audacity should open it, though if it'll recognize it without the right file extension...
16:45:15 <b_jonas> apparently it's a very small audio file you can actually play
16:45:17 <\oren\> vlc says it's mp4a
16:45:19 <b_jonas> smaller than I expected
16:45:31 <gamemanj> Look, if it's 4.096 seconds, then you have the right format.
16:45:38 <b_jonas> \oren\: no, it's flac
16:45:43 <gamemanj> b_jonas wins!
16:45:51 <b_jonas> but I don't know what it contains
16:46:05 <zzo38> SoX fails to determine the type. I do not have Audacity.
16:46:06 <gamemanj> Well, I messed around until it sounded OK.
16:46:16 <gamemanj> It kind of sounds like a radio being tuned or something.
16:46:17 <b_jonas> gamemanj: but how can it be so small?
16:46:27 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I manually tuned the LPC parameters!
16:46:34 <gamemanj> And then looked at what comes out!
16:46:39 <gamemanj> Also, I did say I omitted the header.
16:46:41 <b_jonas> what's LPC
16:46:43 <b_jonas> ?
16:46:53 <gamemanj> I don't know. Something about "linear prediction".
16:47:02 <b_jonas> yes, it's just flac without a container, but that's fine, I'm used to such media files
16:47:10 <\oren\> vlc doesn't play it with file extention flac
16:47:17 <b_jonas> you need containers if you want to seek or have multiple streams or metadata or such things
16:47:30 <gamemanj> You may need a container to play it with some media players
16:47:43 <gamemanj> I can put it in a container if you want, it shouldn't be too hard to engineer one
16:47:48 <b_jonas> gamemanj: some media players probably can't play it no matter what
16:47:56 <b_jonas> I mean, some media players don't play FLAC at all
16:48:09 <gamemanj> b_jonas: Well, that's no fun!
16:48:19 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I could put it to a container too, but the wonderful part is how small it is, and that would be lost
16:48:34 <zzo38> I can play FLAC on my computer but I don't know if it might not play without the header?
16:48:43 <gamemanj> zzo38: Audacity will load it,
16:48:53 <zzo38> I don't have Audacity
16:48:59 <b_jonas> oh, and for some formats, you need a container to explicitly tell what the video framerate is, because the video format only stores a sequence of images without timestamps or framerate
16:49:08 <gamemanj> Also: flac -d test.flac
16:49:11 <gamemanj> That should work
16:49:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh by the way, I wanted to ask,
16:49:20 <zzo38> What options do I need for SoX to load it? If I write -t flac then it says sampling rate was not specified
16:49:34 <gamemanj> zzo38: Again, use flac -d, or prepend a header.
16:49:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: could you figure out that css html multi-columns thing?
16:49:43 <b_jonas> zzo38: should I give a hint about the sound file?
16:49:50 <zzo38> b_jonas: No I did not figure out the HTML multi-columns
16:50:15 <zzo38> OK give the hint; it seems SoX won't load it though
16:50:20 <gamemanj> b_jonas: A hint about the sound file? It's FLAC. You all know that now :)
16:50:29 <gamemanj> SoX probably wants a container.
16:50:29 <b_jonas> gamemanj: about how to play or convert
16:50:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: play with ffplay (of ffmpeg)
16:50:48 <b_jonas> ffmpeg is generally the best to load strange or partly broken media files
16:50:55 <b_jonas> it will open stuff other programs won't
16:51:00 <gamemanj> and it has a nice visualization, too
16:51:03 <b_jonas> you can also use ffmpeg to put it to a container probably
16:51:18 <gamemanj> b_jonas: -c copy will do it without even losing the size
16:51:22 <gamemanj> (I think)
16:51:48 <gamemanj> Or... not.
16:51:58 <b_jonas> gamemanj: you still need a container, any container must add to the size
16:52:18 <gamemanj> Well, yeah, but it'll still remain smaller than if it was reencoded
16:52:31 <zzo38> I suppose I will have to install those programs if I want to be able to play such file. (Fortunately I can install them; they are included in the package manager)
16:52:31 <gamemanj> At least if it wasn't failing because ffmpeg (unlike ffplay) doesn't like it...
16:55:32 <\oren\> successfully converted to mp3
16:56:06 <gamemanj> I have found a problem with writing a header - it requires me to decode the file to get the MD5.
16:57:22 <b_jonas> gamemanj: mind you, ffplay also thinks the sound is very short
16:57:31 <gamemanj> b_jonas: How short?
16:57:43 <gamemanj> b_jonas: 4.096 seconds is correct.
16:58:04 <b_jonas> gamemanj: dunno, with -autoexit it exits in a blink (definitely under a second)
16:58:19 <b_jonas> without -autoexit it plays past the end
16:58:24 <gamemanj> Not a clue what's going on there then.
16:58:34 <gamemanj> Maybe it just doesn't like the lack of a container (and thus a fixed size)
16:58:56 <b_jonas> gamemanj: right, could guess wrong about something that should be in the container header
16:59:24 <\oren\> try naming the file x.flac
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17:01:19 <Jafet> is it not easier to encode silence?
17:01:45 <\oren\> Jafet: that would depend on the format
17:02:30 <Jafet> flac has a model for silence
17:02:41 <Jafet> https://xiph.org/flac/format.html#prediction
17:02:47 <\oren\> I mean, in musical notation, silence and any given note take the same amount od space
17:02:58 <b_jonas> what the heck?
17:03:12 <b_jonas> are there two people in here who play with the details of the flac format?
17:03:14 <b_jonas> what's this channel?
17:04:07 <\oren\> a channel for digital esotericism
17:04:17 <Jafet> does playing since two minutes ago count?
17:04:34 <Jafet> flac frame format: now playing
17:04:56 <gamemanj> Jafet: it may be easier to encode silence, but that's less fun
17:05:30 <gamemanj> I mean, there's a specific subframe type for "absolutely nothing but one sample for however long"
17:05:40 <gamemanj> doesn't make it a good idea, though.
17:05:46 <\oren\> I guess this signal is the raw prediction out of one of the more advanced predictors?
17:06:06 <Jafet> it's used for encoding, well, actual digital silence
17:06:21 <gamemanj> Jafet: exactly, so it's no fun
17:06:48 <Jafet> like between singles
17:07:09 <gamemanj> \oren\: SUBFRAME_FIXED, order 3 (the missing -1 on _FIXED is NOT a documentation error), warmup 0x7FFF, 0x8000, 0x7FFF, no residual.
17:08:06 <gamemanj> Well, I say "no residual", what I mean is, RICE-1, partition order 0, escape code, 0-bit. Apparently no residual is a rare enough case they had to make it take 15 bits to encode.
17:09:57 <b_jonas> gamemanj: this might explain why the length isn't known and ffplay assumes it's very short
17:10:06 <b_jonas> but keeps continuing to play
17:10:22 <gamemanj> b_jonas: No, it has a length.
17:10:31 <gamemanj> The length of it is described as the block size.
17:10:40 <gamemanj> 32768 samples.
17:10:42 <Jafet> the reason for that is probably because there is no flac metadata
17:11:20 <b_jonas> gamemanj: ok
17:14:21 <gamemanj> huh, adding the header and double-checking it's correct makes Audacity act differently (it's somehow making it 1-bit)
17:14:29 <gamemanj> not sure what's going on there
17:14:35 <gamemanj> ffplay is fine with it though
17:14:54 <gamemanj> and VLC...
17:15:17 <quintopia> 1 bit is p cool
17:16:15 <gamemanj> Hmm, except I set the file to 16-bit. I think 8-bit is possible but I had some issues with it, so I just took the path of least resistance.
17:17:02 <gamemanj> ok, what the... the sample dots aren't even showing up
17:17:09 <gamemanj> it's like it amped it up too high
17:17:49 <gamemanj> yep, Audacity amped it up too high
17:18:13 <gamemanj> it's 1-bit due to clipping
17:19:57 <gamemanj> Still, for anyone who wants to waste a bunch of extra bytes,
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17:20:47 <gamemanj> the header is...
17:20:52 <gamemanj> my goodness, that is one long header
17:21:02 <gamemanj> 00: 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00
17:21:10 <gamemanj> 10: 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38
17:21:19 <gamemanj> 20: bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1
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17:21:32 <gamemanj> and the actual frame:
17:21:54 <gamemanj> 2A: ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a
17:22:23 <Jafet> can you overlap the md5 entry with the frame itself
17:22:39 <gamemanj> no
17:22:49 <Jafet> that's unfortunate
17:22:51 <gamemanj> even if you had an MD5 that ended in FF F8
17:23:02 <b_jonas> gamemanj: can you use some other container?
17:23:06 <Jafet> it looks like the metadata header is fixed-size
17:23:17 <Jafet> you can use vorbis, but that is going to be even bigger
17:23:32 <gamemanj> vorbis is a totally different codec, and if you mean Ogg, that will be tons bigger
17:23:46 <gamemanj> because you'll get the Ogg page headers, supplementary headers dragged in by FLAC
17:24:15 <gamemanj> I just tested, the result was 202 bytes
17:24:24 <zzo38> Well, now SoX recognizes it as FLAC, but says error whilst decoding metadata
17:25:03 <gamemanj> zzo38: working fine for me on SoX...
17:25:08 <gamemanj> well, SoX "play", anyway
17:25:43 <gamemanj> keep in mind the 00 / 10 / 20 / 2A are just address info
17:26:09 <zzo38> Yes I know that
17:26:17 <gamemanj> Not a clue, then.
17:26:48 <gamemanj> The header should be 42 bytes, the frame should be 17.
17:28:07 <gamemanj> also I have apparently created an unpausable FLAC file, or at least in VLC anyway. Plus, the Ogg-container version won't load in VLC.
17:29:01 <zzo38> Replacing "xxd -r -p" with "utftovlq 48" has the same result and still doesn't work.
17:29:16 <b_jonas> hehe
17:29:18 <zzo38> (I also tried both of these versions with hd, and the data is same as above in both cases.)
17:29:20 <gamemanj> Maybe double-check the hexdump?
17:29:25 <gamemanj> oh
17:29:29 <gamemanj> huh, no clue then
17:30:20 <b_jonas> it's fun to see webpages with between 500 and 30000 pages all numbered with continuous indexes in the url, and a table of contents that ALMOST covers a range of natural numbers for the indexes
17:30:20 <gamemanj> here's it without any room for error, just in case I messed up:
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000000 66 4c 61 43 80 00 00 22 80 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 |fLaC..."........|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000010 00 00 01 f4 00 f0 00 00 80 00 1c 06 a4 4c 0f 38 |.............L.8|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000020 bc 47 61 ab 33 ce 65 76 04 b1 ff f8 f4 08 00 e5 |.Ga.3.ev........|
17:30:26 <gamemanj> 00000030 16 7f ff 80 00 7f ff 03 c0 47 5a |.........GZ|
17:30:31 <b_jonas> you can look at what the hidden pages missing from the table of contents are
17:31:38 <zzo38> That is exactly what I have.
17:31:49 * gamemanj has no clue what is wrong with the file
17:32:03 <gamemanj> AH! "MD5 signature mismatch"
17:32:04 <gamemanj> somehow
17:32:13 <gamemanj> somehow I wrote the MD5 signature incorrectly into the file
17:33:39 <gamemanj> so now I'm going to have to find some way of making absolutely sure I cut up this WAV file in exactly the right way, including endianness,
17:33:48 <gamemanj> so that I get the right MD5 at the end of it
17:34:23 <gamemanj> it would be nice if the "Other Uncompressed Files" option in Audacity wasn't making this harder by omitting important information. To SoX!
17:34:40 <gamemanj> (via the "flac" command-line tool)
17:36:23 <gamemanj> (some copying and pasting, especially of ",0x", later...)
17:37:03 <gamemanj> ERROR: md5 signature mismatch.
17:37:55 <gamemanj> Reversing the signature migh---ERROR: md5 signature mismatch.
17:38:12 <Jafet> wow, do players actually check the md5 digest
17:38:42 <gamemanj> the "flac" command-line tool does, and goodness knows how far that mess has spread
17:38:57 <gamemanj> after all, it's basically a self-test to ensure the decoder's working correctly
17:39:04 <Jafet> I guess libflac might
17:39:17 <gamemanj> otherwise you could end up with *gasp* slightly modified audio data!
17:41:03 <b_jonas> In this case, half of the hidden pages are broken, and half are apparently omitted because the code making the toc is broken
17:41:58 <gamemanj> Well, that can't be good for research.
17:43:24 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, it's a nice way to make automatic self-tests for unusual configurations (eg. strange operating systems or compilation options)
17:44:25 <gamemanj> "A passing neutron hit their FLAC files, and modifying a VERBATIM segment, it became... not the true audio!"
17:44:54 <gamemanj> (All scientific inaccuracies intentional.)
17:45:08 <b_jonas> gamemanj: no, seriously, it's for detecting bugs that only come up when both the system is unusual and the file is. those bugs wouldn't normally be reported, because people would just assume the audio file they're playing is broken.
17:45:43 <gamemanj> Fair enough, though if both the system and the file are unusual, fun may occur.
17:46:22 <gamemanj> Now, if the system is unusual enough that something goes wrong in the decoder, it's pretty bad from a "completely, 100%, lossless" standpoint.
17:46:30 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined.
17:51:16 <Jafet> stop making fun of people who merely want bit-for-bit reproduction of their rick rubin albums
17:56:38 <zzo38> Idea of new Magic: the Gathering card: The next time a nontoken Aura dies this turn, you may cast it.
17:56:42 <zzo38> (I don't know what cost or name)
18:03:28 <gamemanj> Jafet: I'm more concerned about signal processing, where there may be a good use case for lossless files.
18:08:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.156]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:10:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:18:10 <\oren\> gamemanj: right, video/music editing would produce very bad results if every operation involved decoding and reencoding with lossage
18:25:00 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/_BgJEXQkjNQ
18:25:32 <\oren\> it seems that the upper stage oxygen tank may have exploded, which caused the rest to fail
18:26:26 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:29:02 <izabera> hey
18:29:05 <izabera> i've got a problem
18:29:20 <izabera> i found some non-gpl code with a comment "[...] copied from linux"
18:29:33 <izabera> which in this case is likely to refer to glibc
18:29:49 <izabera> but i don't know how old a version of glibc
18:30:03 <izabera> what do
18:31:17 <gamemanj> Where is this code, and why are you using it?
18:32:46 <izabera> suppose i don't/can't show it
18:33:37 <izabera> ok i found it
18:33:39 <izabera> it was glibc
18:33:47 <izabera> what should i do now?
18:34:20 <gamemanj> Well... if it's under uncertain legal terms, why is it in the codebase?
18:43:16 <izabera> it's complicated
18:43:44 <gamemanj> Under this scenario, I'd probably excise it from the codebase if at all possible.
18:43:53 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
18:44:11 <gamemanj> If it's a routine from glibc, though, it may be possible to simply refer to the routine.
18:44:16 <gamemanj> If it's actually accessible...
18:44:17 <wob_jonas> izabera: is it in code that you intend to eventually distribute, as opposed to code you're just using in house?
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18:44:35 <izabera> it has already been distributed
18:44:57 <gamemanj> *gulp*
18:45:05 <wob_jonas> izabera: try to contact its author or maintainer maybe?
18:45:25 <gamemanj> Is it being distributed as source?
18:45:28 <izabera> no
18:45:35 <FireFly> ick.
18:45:39 * gamemanj looks at wob_jonas
18:45:45 <gamemanj> we will not speak of this. understood?
18:46:12 <gamemanj> There. Problem solved. And now for a 100-verse scrawl on beer.
18:46:18 <gamemanj> 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall
18:46:23 <wob_jonas> izabera: maybe look at whether it's copied to glibc from some other source that is under a less restricted license?
18:46:30 <izabera> uh what
18:46:35 <wob_jonas> or whether you can find a replacement code that does something similar
18:46:38 <izabera> is that even a thing?
18:46:43 <gamemanj> 99 bottles of beer, sitting on the wall, and if one should happen, to accidentally fall..
18:46:55 <wob_jonas> izabera: why not? you can try to look at comments in the file in glibc in case they tell that
18:47:59 <wob_jonas> I don't know if glibc has such pieces of code, but it certainly happens in other gpl-ed software
18:48:06 <wob_jonas> that's what the free software licenses are for
18:48:27 <gamemanj> I personally would use a force-push to try and excise it's very existence, and then have it under a gentleperson's agreement that nobody says anything. Push the existence of the glibc code down the memory hole.
18:48:43 <gamemanj> Or just cover it up.
18:48:47 <gamemanj> But probably the first.
18:49:04 <gamemanj> Seriously, though, if it's already in released builds, and it's actually GPL'd code, there is nothing you can do.
18:49:32 <izabera> it's been in released builds for several years
18:49:42 <gamemanj> That does not help matters.
18:50:06 <gamemanj> Given you said there's no source distribution going on, it's probably already a violation of the GPL.
18:50:28 <gamemanj> So you'll probably want to remove the code ASAP and pretend it never existed.
18:51:11 <gamemanj> Because, you know, writing "Oh we were violating the GPL but we fixed that now" into a changelog is not a good idea.
18:52:10 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: why not?
18:52:15 <izabera> i figured that
18:52:31 <gamemanj> wob_jonas: I'm assuming izabera's priorities involve keeping a job.
18:55:16 <gamemanj> Also, izabera, never tell us who you work for. Ever.
18:55:53 <izabera> i didn't say that this is happening where i work
18:56:23 <gamemanj> Huh, ok. It just seemed that way, given the whole "released binary only product going for several years" thing
19:01:41 <wob_jonas> izabera: great, you get this plausible deniability thing
19:01:53 <\oren\> nInE nIn botLs uv bEr on Du wol, nInE nIn botLs uv bEr. if wun uv Dos botLs Sud hapN tU fol, nInE At botLs uv bEr on Du wol
19:02:26 <Jafet> that sounds like a rather tipsy transcription
19:02:28 <wob_jonas> mind you, since you already said it's not distributed as a source, but you read a source comment, so there aren't that many possibilities remaining
19:02:47 <\oren\> Jafet: in what way?
19:04:20 -!- rodgort has joined.
19:04:38 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:05:01 <\oren\> oh, I guess some people pronounce ninety nIndE and not nInE
19:06:25 <\oren\> actually, since my dialect doesn't have t in botLs it should just be boLs
19:06:38 <\oren\> or perhaps bolLs
19:06:51 <Jafet> balls to the walls
19:07:15 <\oren\> bodLs perhaps?
19:07:31 <\oren\> yeah that's the closest approximation
19:12:56 <\oren\> I have no idea why but toronto english seems to slur the hell out of everything
19:14:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:15:17 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:15:49 <\oren\> slR Du hel Wt uv evrETiG
19:16:08 <gamemanj> in less sane happier news, apparently warmup 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF creates random noise.
19:16:21 <gamemanj> Somehow.
19:16:48 <gamemanj> Except it's not quite random noise.
19:17:14 <gamemanj> There's little circles here and there showing it was at some point meant to resemble sound.
19:17:28 <\oren\> is it somehow tricking the decoder into reading uninitialized memory
19:17:33 <gamemanj> No.
19:17:35 <\oren\> hopefully not
19:17:39 <gamemanj> At least, not as far as I know, anyway.
19:17:56 <gamemanj> Should I just upload a screenshot of it in Audacity?
19:18:01 <\oren\> sure
19:18:04 <gamemanj> I think it explains more than anything else what's going on...
19:18:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:18:46 <\oren\> Phelltom_Hellover
19:19:29 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: apparently 6000 5FFF 6000 5FFF in a flac file creates random looking noise
19:19:46 <Phantom_Hoover> very good?
19:19:54 <\oren\> gamemanj is investigating this
19:20:16 <gamemanj> Well, not so much random looking
19:20:24 <gamemanj> when you look at it it's clearly not random
19:20:46 <\oren\> random sounding then
19:21:15 <gamemanj> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly.png
19:21:43 <gamemanj> I'm pretty sure there's some overflows involved here.
19:21:44 <gamemanj> No idea why.
19:22:57 <gamemanj> Also it's not just those 8 bytes
19:23:10 <gamemanj> Those are just the warmup constants I used, you have to have the stuff around them
19:23:30 <gamemanj> The total FLAC frame is 18 bytes
19:24:01 <gamemanj> FF F8 F4 08 00 E5 18 60 00 5F FF 60 00 5F FF 03 C0 FC 5C
19:24:42 <gamemanj> It's interesting that it acts kind of like it has a "velocity" of some sort
19:25:02 <gamemanj> and then the "velocity" gets so high that it just acts like a decrement instead of an increment
19:26:30 <gamemanj> there's also a bit where it actually stops sounding like noise
19:26:43 <gamemanj> it's at 2.048s
19:26:49 <gamemanj> exactly half way in
19:26:56 <gamemanj> and then it goes back to being noise again
19:27:21 <gamemanj> course, it's only 0.01 long, so it's just a click before it gets back to being noise-like again
19:28:30 <Jafet> that's just the fractional part of a polynomial, isn't it
19:28:47 <\oren\> Jafet: not exaclty
19:29:05 <wob_jonas> Jafet: no, it's exponential, sort of like those quadratic recursion random generators
19:29:13 <\oren\> the thing has a cusp when its slope get high wnough
19:30:36 <\oren\> I bet it's something like x+=v;v+=a;x=x%1;
19:30:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:31:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:31:22 <\oren\> or x = x & 0xFFFF
19:31:25 <\oren\> most likely
19:31:40 <\oren\> v is some sort of wraparound int
19:31:59 <\oren\> that would explain why the value suddenly switches direction
19:33:06 <\oren\> in other news, for some reason, yesterday I decided to make a crappy calculator
19:38:21 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:38:28 <Phantom_Hoover> surely this is fairly easy to work out by brute force
19:38:44 <Phantom_Hoover> just track through how the flac algorithm decodes those bytes
19:38:56 <gamemanj> more fun to theorize
19:39:02 <gamemanj> I mean, you could just look at the code
19:39:10 <gamemanj> the file doesn't even use complicated coefficients,
19:39:18 <gamemanj> it's a SUBFRAME_FIXED
19:39:20 <gamemanj> order 4
19:40:04 <Phantom_Hoover> also the graph you posted is clearly a smooth curve modulo something
19:40:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:40:43 <gamemanj> the weird thing is
19:40:49 <gamemanj> there's something that looks like a sine wave in it
19:40:58 <Phantom_Hoover> it's not a sine wave
19:41:11 <gamemanj> at 1.873, len 0.009
19:41:16 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:41:27 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: there always is, in a periodic function
19:41:41 <wob_jonas> in any function really
19:41:52 <wob_jonas> according to Fourier
19:42:18 <Phantom_Hoover> gamemanj, imo try lifting those samples you have to see the underlying curve
19:42:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:43:28 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:44:53 <wob_jonas> \oren\: what?
19:45:06 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:45:06 <\oren\> 4 4+
19:45:14 <\oren\> testing this stupid calculator
19:45:29 <\oren\> it's not working
19:46:00 -!- APNG has joined.
19:46:12 <APNG> oh btw anyone wanna try an IRC-based esolang? https://github.com/SoniEx2/CTCP-S/blob/master/ctcp-s.md#sub
19:46:12 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:46:15 <Phantom_Hoover> yes but that was fairly clear after the first few failed attempts
19:46:29 <APNG> it should be turing-complete, that is you should be able to write a brainfuck interpreter using CTCP-S SUB
19:46:35 <\oren\> it says "irssi: not enough parameters given"
19:46:40 <APNG> *should*
19:47:05 <\oren\> and I don't know why
19:47:43 <gamemanj> hello APNG.
19:48:12 <APNG> (it's basically a C preprocessor derivative btw)
19:48:17 <APNG> hi gamemanj
19:49:13 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+p
19:49:13 <\oren\> 8
19:49:23 <DHeadshot> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:49:26 <gamemanj> wob_jonas: yes, but these are very obvious sine waves: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/butterfly_detail.png
19:49:40 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:49:47 <\oren\> I think it's occurring in the line that prints the output
19:49:57 <DHeadshot> ❄ocal 4 3+=
19:50:10 <wob_jonas> *ocal 2 19+
19:50:11 <\oren\> $server->command("msg $target ". botscript($message));
19:50:19 <wob_jonas> %ocal 14 7-
19:50:29 <DHeadshot> ❄ocal 4 4+.
19:50:31 <\oren\>
19:50:38 <DHeadshot> ?
19:50:45 <\oren\> that's charapcter number 8
19:51:19 <DHeadshot> Ah!
19:51:21 <\oren\> oh, I see, irssi doesn't let me output nothing
19:51:38 <gamemanj> why not? nothing is something
19:51:40 <DHeadshot> ❄ocal 4 48+.
19:51:40 <\oren\> 4
19:51:40 <gamemanj> and something is nothin
19:51:44 <gamemanj> *nothing
19:51:49 <zzo38> The IRC server won't let you to send a blank message, but you can send a message containing only places.
19:51:51 <zzo38> s/places/spaces/
19:51:54 -!- augur has joined.
19:52:35 <DHeadshot> I can get oren banned by sending "❄ocal 4 3+."!
19:53:01 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+p
19:53:01 <\oren\> ☃ 8
19:53:14 <\oren\> there, a snowman before the actal output
19:53:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 4 4+
19:53:22 <\oren\>
19:53:53 <\oren\> wob_jonas: the bot's trigger character is a snowflake
19:54:40 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 2 19+
19:54:40 <\oren\>
19:54:46 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 2 9+
19:54:47 <\oren\>
19:54:49 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 2 4+
19:54:50 <\oren\>
19:54:54 <wob_jonas> hmm
19:54:54 <\oren\> you neep p to output the anwser
19:55:02 <\oren\> it's kind of like dc
19:55:03 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 2 19+p
19:55:04 <\oren\> ☃ 21
19:55:05 <wob_jonas> ah!
19:55:27 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 999 7%p
19:55:27 <\oren\> ☃ -4
19:55:31 <\oren\> ❄ocal 077p
19:55:31 <\oren\> ☃ 63
19:55:47 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it operates on bytes
19:56:48 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 8 4pp
19:56:48 <\oren\> ☃ 44
19:56:56 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 8 4pskp
19:56:56 <\oren\> ☃ 44
19:57:19 <\oren\> ❄ocal 8 4 pdpd
19:57:19 <\oren\> ☃ 48
19:57:55 <\oren\> hmm maybe p shuld just be destructive
19:58:00 <\oren\> yeah
19:58:05 <wob_jonas> \oren\: no
19:58:10 <wob_jonas> it's not destructive in dc
19:58:18 <wob_jonas> very useful for debugging
19:58:32 <wob_jonas> it should print a newline after the number though
19:58:55 <\oren\> i added a space
19:59:07 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 8 4pskp
19:59:07 <\oren\> ☃ 48
19:59:15 <wob_jonas> have you?
20:00:04 <\oren\> ❄ocal 8 4 pdp
20:00:04 <\oren\> ☃ 4 8
20:00:33 <\oren\> hmm I guess d should be dup. but then i dunno about drop
20:00:49 <wob_jonas> \oren\: add an s command, that's enough for dropping
20:01:13 <APNG> \oren\, r for remove?
20:01:23 <APNG> or y for yank
20:01:44 <wob_jonas> \oren\: or a ! command (as in underload)
20:01:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: no, we want dc compatibility :-)
20:02:25 <\oren\> it's not going to be dc compatible if it acts on bytes
20:02:42 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah, just similar syntax so it's easy to learn
20:02:58 <\oren\> well for now, y will work
20:03:02 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 3 9p # can I add comments?
20:03:02 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:03:14 <\oren\> hmm
20:03:51 <\oren\> ❄ocal 60 p # p
20:03:52 <\oren\> ☃ 60
20:03:53 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 3 9p [maybe just use strings as comments]sk
20:03:53 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:04:02 <\oren\> it doesn't have strings
20:04:11 <\oren\> onyl bytes
20:05:04 <\oren\> ❄ocal 255 1 + p
20:05:04 <\oren\> ☃ 0
20:05:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:05:49 <\oren\> it has an @ command however
20:06:07 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 3 @ p
20:06:07 <\oren\> ☃ 4
20:06:16 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 2 @ p
20:06:16 <\oren\> ☃ 5
20:06:22 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 3 4 5 6 0 @ p
20:06:22 <\oren\> ☃ 0
20:07:20 <\oren\> anyway, the key feature I'm gonna add is the ability to switch the type the calculator acts on
20:07:33 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal _5
20:07:33 <\oren\>
20:07:40 <\oren\> so you could use the D command to switch to doubles
20:07:42 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 251
20:07:42 <\oren\>
20:07:47 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal _5p
20:07:48 <\oren\> ☃ 5
20:07:50 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 251p
20:07:51 <\oren\> ☃ -5
20:08:22 <wob_jonas> ❄ 9p
20:08:44 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 105 73+p156 40+p45 187+p227 27+p109 33+p179 16+p241 61+p56 58+p5 89+p5 86+p168 148+p # expect -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 -67 -99
20:08:44 <\oren\> ☃ -78 -60 -24 -2 -114 -61 46 114 94 91 60
20:09:49 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 153 37-p156 109-p84 183-p166 147-p219 209-p234 189-p57 214-p157 149-p1 134-p27 220-p116 8-p93 255-p # expect 116 47 -99 19 10 45 99 8 123 63 108 94
20:09:49 <\oren\> ☃ -103 -100 84 -90 -37 -22 57 -99 1 27 116 93
20:09:55 <wob_jonas> hmm no
20:10:23 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 2-p
20:10:24 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:10:28 <wob_jonas> what
20:10:35 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 1-p
20:10:36 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:10:44 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 1 -p
20:10:44 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:10:47 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 3 -p
20:10:47 <\oren\> ☃ 9
20:10:51 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 3 |p
20:10:51 <\oren\> ☃ 11
20:10:58 <wob_jonas> ❄ocal 9 4 |p
20:10:58 <\oren\> ☃ 13
20:11:02 <wob_jonas> what?
20:11:10 <\oren\> | is logical or
20:11:26 <\oren\> er isn't logical or
20:11:26 <wob_jonas> but what does - do?
20:11:46 <\oren\> ei(*c=='-'){s[0]=-s[0];}
20:12:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 3 - p
20:12:18 <\oren\> ☃ 0
20:12:24 <\oren\> huh?
20:12:42 <zzo38> The sandbox capability in Node.js isn't very good but I would suggest other way you can by making a JavaScript library for accessing a JavaScript implementation. (V8 is accessed from C++, but my suggestion is a way to make V8 accessible through JavaScript code too.)
20:13:12 <\oren\> ❄ocal 3 - p
20:13:13 <\oren\> ☃ -3
20:13:18 <\oren\> there we go
20:13:52 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 |p
20:13:52 <\oren\> ☃ -1
20:13:57 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 &p
20:13:57 <\oren\> ☃ 63
20:13:58 <wob_jonas> \oren\: what other operations do you have?
20:14:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 - 077 ^p
20:14:18 <\oren\> ☃ -64
20:14:48 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 1 = 2 3 = |p
20:14:48 <\oren\> ☃ 1
20:14:58 <zzo38> What would you think of what I wrote about isolated sandbox for JavaScript in JavaScript?
20:15:40 <\oren\> wob_jonas: not much atm, but I'll be adding various types first
20:15:40 <wob_jonas> zzo38: sandbox implemented in javascript, or a javascript api to the control sandbox?
20:16:45 <zzo38> wob_jonas: A JavaScript API to a JavaScript sandbox
20:17:15 <zzo38> (The API would probably be implemented in C++ because that is what V8 requires)
20:17:37 <zzo38> (And V8 would be used because that is what Node.js uses)
20:17:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: isn't that already implemented in browsers basically, and essentially invokable some combination of frames and some other stuff?
20:18:13 <wob_jonas> or with plugins that let you control the browser from javascript but the pages also have javascript or something
20:18:15 <zzo38> Something like what is in browsers yes, but for Node.js instead of browsers and programmable through JavaScript on the outside too
20:18:35 <zzo38> (Firefox uses XPCOM but that has several problems)
20:19:16 <wob_jonas> \oren\: will you list the operations this supports somewhere?
20:19:57 <\oren\> hmm, I wonder which operations it should support. Maybe I'll just keep it with bytes but support a lot of byte stuff?
20:20:48 <\oren\> the u command will undrop
20:21:38 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ocal.c.htm
20:24:23 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2 + u + u + p
20:24:23 <\oren\> ☃ 7
20:25:24 <\oren\> ❄ocal uu+p
20:25:24 <\oren\> ☃ 0
20:26:34 <\oren\> #define eg else goto
20:26:48 <wob_jonas> \oren\: well that code is evil
20:27:04 <int-e> so can we hack into \oren\'s machine now
20:27:09 <int-e> (I'm not looking)
20:27:19 <\oren\> probably not
20:27:24 <wob_jonas> int-e: probably no
20:27:46 <\oren\> i mean, it would let you look at anything in the ocal process's memory space
20:28:04 <wob_jonas> \oren\: why are you writing the number input routines in such a verbose way?
20:28:20 <\oren\> to avoid growing the stack
20:28:45 <wob_jonas> \oren\: um... but
20:29:09 <wob_jonas> \oren\: but why not fewer branches instead of repeated code?
20:29:09 <\oren\> i'm doing that char *s=((char*)(&c))+1000; thing again
20:29:59 <\oren\> wob_jonas: oh, because... uh, I dunno
20:30:26 <wob_jonas> like, instead of ei(*c=='1'){s[1]=1;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;}...ei(*c=='9'){s[1]=9;s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;} just write something like ei('1'<=*c&&*c<='9'){s[1]=c-'0';s++;c++;goto bytedecmode;}
20:31:40 <\oren\> there
20:31:47 <\oren\> yeah, did that
20:32:18 <\oren\> ❄ocal 1 2+u+u+p
20:32:19 <\oren\> ☃ 7
20:32:25 <\oren\> ❄ocal 100p
20:32:25 <\oren\> ☃ 100
20:32:31 <\oren\> ❄ocal 077p
20:32:31 <\oren\> ☃ 63
20:32:40 <\oren\> yeh, works fine
20:36:13 <\oren\> also for some reason chrome thinks I wrote that program in norwegian
20:37:01 <\oren\> is eg and ei words in norwegian?
20:37:48 <\oren\> oh, I bet eg means like an egg
20:38:16 <wob_jonas> isn't it Ei that means an egg?
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20:43:02 <\oren\> @ask oerjan are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg?
20:43:02 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:47:10 <int-e> apparently ei is a female article (*one* female) and eg the first-person singular pronoun (I)
20:48:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: Ei still means an egg in German though, doesn't it?
20:48:18 <int-e> yes it does
20:50:21 <int-e> wob_jonas: wait, don't you speak German natively? I somehow thought you did.
20:50:46 <int-e> must be one of my usual mixups.
20:50:52 <wob_jonas> I don't
20:50:58 <\oren\> I thought he's from Hungary?
20:51:08 <wob_jonas> correct
20:52:48 <\oren\> I have no idea why the english word egg has two g's though
20:53:14 <\oren\> eg and egs would work just as well
20:53:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: because "eg." is already a word
20:54:10 <int-e> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/egg#English ... seems to have two g's in many languages, actually
20:55:01 <int-e> AFAICS "eg." does not exist. "e.g." and "eg" do.
20:56:41 <shachaf> electronic goblin
20:57:29 <int-e> extraordinary gullibility
20:57:40 <myname> i am a german native speaker
20:59:10 <quintopia> i wonder what yahoo is planning that they've suddenly shut out all 3rd party apps from using the messenger network
20:59:26 <quintopia> not that anyone used it anyway, but ... did they have some reason to think people will?
21:04:26 <int-e> bot infestation?
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21:08:19 <gamemanj> "eg and egs"...? when'd we move from linguistics to webcomics? Oh, look at the time...*falls asleep on desk*
21:09:20 <int-e> oh god, I remember EGS
21:10:06 * gamemanj gets woken up by music
21:10:30 <gamemanj> the "oh god" does not sound like a good thing"
21:10:39 <int-e> why isn't there a european DVD version of The Expanse
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21:17:13 <APNG> it's alive! https://is.gd/HQfus8 barely...
21:17:14 <int-e> gamemanj: it's one of those comics that I feel foolish about now, having grown up a little
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21:41:15 <FireFly> 'eg' for 'I' is nynorsk I believe
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21:54:02 <APNG> I can now add commands to it https://is.gd/PNZ1hc
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22:33:53 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( The distance between a point and the origin in n-space divided by the square root of n is equal to the root-mean-square of the values in the point)
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22:54:15 <moonythedwarf> does anyone know a good math expression evalulator (thats a programming library or a program itself)?
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23:38:26 <DHeadshot> Shouldn't be hard to write one...
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23:44:41 <oerjan> @messages-
23:44:42 <lambdabot> \oren\ asked 3h 1m 39s ago: are ei and eg words in norwegian, and which one means en:egg?
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23:45:38 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ yes, yes (in nynorsk), neither (en:egg = no:egg)
23:45:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:45:57 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ in fact i vaguely recall english borrowed it from us hth
23:45:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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23:46:43 <oerjan> yep
23:46:56 <hppavilion[1]> Horror movies are dumb
23:47:04 <hppavilion[1]> Terror movies are MUCH more entertaining
23:47:22 <oerjan> Mirror movies are more reflective
23:48:51 <oerjan> oh the last two blocks i made are in the same range
23:50:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:199.15.233.152/29]] with an expiry time of 17:07, 1 September 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
23:55:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:31.184.238.0/24]] with an expiry time of 03:48, 29 August 2017 (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
23:57:01 <oerjan> i'd remove the redundant ones, but that seems spammy
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2016-09-02
00:01:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
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00:08:27 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
00:08:33 <hppavilion[1]> My laptop charger just crapped out on me
00:08:48 <hppavilion[1]> This is the second one to do so on this device, and this one is a different brand from the previous one
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00:25:16 <oerjan> `` ls gu*
00:25:17 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access gu*: No such file or directory
00:25:52 <oerjan> hmph
00:25:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49678&oldid=49650 * Tbodt * (+214) /* Introductions */
00:26:03 <oerjan> ooh
00:26:11 <oerjan> `cat test
00:26:11 <HackEgo> ho
00:26:19 <oerjan> `mk test//ha
00:26:22 <HackEgo> test
00:26:27 <oerjan> `` ls gu*
00:26:28 <HackEgo> gunzip
00:26:31 <oerjan> `rm gunzip
00:26:33 <HackEgo> No output.
00:27:25 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ there's a bug so you cannot `revert a new file creation properly hth
00:27:25 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:31:23 * oerjan suddenly gets filled with sadness at having to work around stupid bugs.
00:31:44 <oerjan> on computers, and in real life.
00:31:56 <shachaf> computers have so many bugs
00:32:16 <shachaf> https://danluu.com/everything-is-broken/
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00:46:11 <\oren\> moonythedwarf_: try octave
00:53:06 <\oren\> ........
00:58:28 <oerjan> he waxed, then he waned.
01:07:17 <zzo38> They make modern computer designs too complicated and too much stupid also.
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01:19:36 <oerjan> <\oren\> actually, since my dialect doesn't have t in botLs it should just be boLs <-- sure there's not a glottal stop there?
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01:54:16 <\oren\> oerjan: I'm pretty sure there's no glottal stop. it's more like a d
01:54:21 <\oren\> bodLs
01:54:33 <moonythedwarf_> no, i didnt wane ):
01:56:39 <oerjan> moonythedwarf_: oh, didn't notice the nicks were different
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01:57:42 <oerjan> \oren\: hm, there's got to be a name for that. lateral stop maybe?
01:59:27 * oerjan found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-stopped_consonant but isn't sure if that's right there
02:00:12 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
02:00:39 <oerjan> surs deily
02:01:26 <boily> surs?
02:02:25 <oerjan> transliterated
02:03:08 <oerjan> on another site, it's spelled sous
02:04:10 <boily> that's not an easy one...
02:04:17 <boily> Albanian?
02:04:20 <oerjan> nope
02:04:38 <oerjan> indeed, i'd never guess it myself *MWAHAHAHA*
02:05:09 <oerjan> (albanian is written with latin alphabet btw)
02:07:24 <boily> one never knows...
02:08:05 <boily> Marathi?
02:09:24 <oerjan> nope. at least you're getting onto the right continent.
02:10:37 <boily> Mongolian?
02:11:25 <oerjan> nope. you haven't got to the right family yet...
02:11:39 <boily> Malayalam?
02:11:51 <boily> (trying M- languages tonight...)
02:12:09 <oerjan> nope.
02:14:10 <oerjan> it's not indian, although it does have some influence.
02:15:01 <oerjan> ("influenced considerably by Sanskrit and Pali")
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02:16:36 <boily> ...
02:16:42 <boily> ... Tocharian?
02:16:55 <boily> (is it influenced by Sanskrit?)
02:17:54 <oerjan> tocharian is indo-european, which i already implicitly excluded.
02:18:51 <oerjan> it probably was though, "The subject matter of the texts suggests that Tocharian A was more archaic and used as a Buddhist liturgical language"
02:19:42 <oerjan> this language is not extinct btw, it has appr. 16 million speakers.
02:19:57 <boily> Uyghur?
02:20:44 <oerjan> no, nor any other turkic language.
02:21:09 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett.
02:21:13 <boily> Hmong?
02:22:01 <boily> tswellot. heeeeeelp...
02:22:11 <tswett> Quick, think of a rational number which is not of the form x^7 + 3 y^7, where x and y are rational numbers.
02:22:31 <oerjan> wat.
02:23:08 <boily> uh, uh, 5?
02:23:38 <quintopia> coily
02:23:49 <quintopia> heyoerjan
02:23:50 <oerjan> boily: no. best guess so far though.
02:23:51 <boily> quinthellopia!
02:24:02 <boily> oerjan: Burmese?
02:24:03 <tswett> How do you write 5 in that form?
02:24:15 <tswett> Oh, I misunderstood your referent.
02:24:44 <oerjan> nope. you still haven't hit the right family.
02:25:35 * boily is trying to remember all the families out there... Sino-Tibetan, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kadai, Vietic, Austronesian...
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02:27:22 <oerjan> you almost got the right family listed except you chose a wrong subfamily instead.
02:27:30 <boily> aaaaurgh.
02:27:40 <boily> Cham?
02:28:30 <oerjan> no. that's austronesian, apparently.
02:29:06 <boily> Thaï?
02:29:18 <oerjan> no. you had Tai-Kadai there.
02:29:34 <boily> ...
02:30:00 * oerjan *MWAHAHAS* a bit.
02:30:26 <oerjan> btw it's the official language of a country hth
02:30:33 <boily> Nepali?
02:30:44 * boily is panicking
02:30:58 <oerjan> nope. that seems to be indo-aryan.
02:31:21 <oerjan> also moving in the wrong direction.
02:32:36 <doesthiswork> what are we guessing?
02:33:38 <oerjan> doesthiswork: boily is guessing the language of today's porthelloily hth
02:33:38 <doesthiswork> also oerjan: thanks for the boolean ring
02:33:52 <oerjan> you're welcome
02:34:47 <boily> Naxi?
02:34:57 <boily> (most definitely not influenced by Sanskrit, that one)
02:35:22 <oerjan> nope. that's sino-tibetan.
02:35:36 <boily> English?
02:35:40 <boily> (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!)
02:35:43 <boily> (rgh.)
02:35:46 <oerjan> that's indo-european hth
02:36:13 <boily> Oriya?
02:36:39 <oerjan> that's indo-aryan
02:36:45 <boily> not Dravidian?
02:36:57 -!- spockers has joined.
02:37:02 <boily> `relcome spockers
02:37:03 <HackEgo> spockers: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:37:10 <oerjan> no, but we've already excluded that too (malayalam)
02:37:14 <boily> yeah.
02:37:27 <boily> maudit est pas facile celle-là à soir...
02:37:29 <oerjan> and i said it wasn't indian.
02:37:45 <boily> Maldivian?
02:38:05 <oerjan> indo-aryan hth
02:38:12 <doesthiswork> elamite?
02:38:16 <boily> wut? Maldivian is Indo-Aryan too?
02:38:23 <oerjan> doesthiswork: no hth
02:38:47 <oerjan> doesthiswork: i've already mentioned it's not extinct.
02:39:44 * pikhq notes that all Indo-Aryan languages are Indo-European...
02:39:52 <pikhq> Just like all birds are dinosaurs. :)
02:40:07 <oerjan> boily: of the languages you've mentioned, it's also listed as having been influencing/influenced by Thai and Cham hth
02:40:22 <boily> Khmer?
02:40:25 <oerjan> *DING*
02:40:30 <boily> bon!
02:40:45 <boily> I can't believe I circled that one for so long...
02:41:06 <boily> time to go brush my teeth and approach a pillow.
02:41:17 <oerjan> good night :)
02:41:19 <boily> boerjanne nuit!
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02:46:23 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/HpSEgdQWaS0
03:19:30 * Sgeo was expecting Evillious Chronicals. I don't know what your link is
03:27:25 <\oren\> music
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05:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49679&oldid=46761 * Oerjan * (-30) /* Documentation */ Add edit by [[User:Tbodt]] caught in filter
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08:14:53 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 48.42 3874 nuke
08:14:53 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 4009.49978652771
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11:28:21 <boily> `wisdom
11:28:25 <HackEgo> oren's font//\oren\'s font is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
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13:43:25 <b_jonas> fungot, do you like long meetings?
13:43:25 <fungot> b_jonas: p and i are in completely different places in the struct?' i could use a fnord and helpful way?
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14:24:14 <Nephenter_123> hello
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14:46:36 <APNG> so let's say I'm making an esolang
14:46:41 <APNG> which I am btw http://play.integer32.com/?gist=0c1b45a0a7f88b2efae29d266f9ccfe8&version=stable&backtrace=2
14:46:52 <APNG> so let's say idk how the thing I'm making actually works
14:47:04 <APNG> I know how to make an infinite loop, or loop twice
14:47:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
14:47:24 <APNG> but how do I loop 3 times? 4 times? 10 times?
14:47:25 <myname> make an article, some of the hardcore nerds will figure stuff out
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14:47:42 <APNG> n times? not that the thing has any numbers...
14:57:52 <b_jonas> ❄ocal 75 8*
14:57:52 <\oren\>
14:57:55 <b_jonas> ❄ocal 75 8*p
14:57:55 <\oren\> ☃ 88
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15:32:26 <b_jonas> Ok, so Knuth has updated the prediction on his homepage, so volume 5 of TAOCP is now "Estimated to be ready in 2025." rather than in 2020 as he's predicted before.
15:32:53 <b_jonas> According to the archive.org wayback machine, this change has happened between 2015-11 and 2016-01.
15:34:23 <gamemanj> that sounds like one big revision
15:34:41 <b_jonas> The page is http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html
15:34:49 <gamemanj> wait, volume, so one big book
15:35:08 <b_jonas> And it doesn't have any prediction on when the revised volumes 1' to 3' are going to be ready.
15:36:35 <b_jonas> gamemanj: actually TAOCP is now sort of numbered wrong, since volume 4A is published, it's as thick as any of the first three volumes, but the topics professor Knuth originally wanted in volume 4 don't fit in it,
15:36:50 <gamemanj> you know, I highly suspect we may need to invent immortality...
15:36:52 <b_jonas> so he's splitting it to at least two volumes, so there'll be a volume 4B and possibly more.
15:37:06 <gamemanj> ...we definitely need to invent immortality...
15:37:19 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, or at least longevity. Knuth is definitely one of those people for whom it would be worth.
15:37:25 <Jafet> eventually volumes 6-7 will return to the original goal of describing compilers
15:37:52 -!- FireFly has changed nick to ffl.
15:37:56 <b_jonas> like, if I get my hands on very few doses of an extremely rare longevity serum, professor Knuth would be high on the list for who to give it.
15:37:59 <b_jonas> seriously.
15:38:07 <b_jonas> Jafet: or more likely no
15:38:37 <Jafet> it's ok, we'll learn in nine years that DEK was a collective pseudonym
15:38:42 <b_jonas> Jafet: Knuth's words on that is "And after Volumes 1--5 are done, God willing, I plan to publish Volume 6 (the theory of context-free languages) and Volume 7 (Compiler techniques), but only if the things I want to say about those topics are still relevant and still haven't been said. Volumes 1--5 represent the central core of computer programming for sequential machines; the subjects of Volumes 6 and 7 are important but more specialized."
15:38:51 <b_jonas> Jafet: sadly no
15:39:10 <b_jonas> he's a single genius mathematician
15:42:16 <Jafet> hmm, volume 5 will cover string algorithms
15:42:57 <Jafet> knuth may want to avoid unhealthy foods like pizza and chilli when writing that
15:43:31 <b_jonas> Jafet: he has a wife
15:43:37 <Jafet> or he'll never finish it
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15:56:50 <gamemanj> Warning. Readers of the above b_jonas text may find a contradiction, but it's because of other meanings of the word "single".
15:57:13 <gamemanj> Thus, any advisory on the contradiction does not apply.
15:57:22 <Jafet> (er, pizza and chili)
15:59:15 <b_jonas> heh
16:16:26 <izabera> the git book is 33 pages shorter than harry potter and the deathly hallows
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16:53:56 * oerjan finds today's xkcd disturbing
16:56:00 <\oren\> gamemanj: your warning was helpful as I upscrolled
16:56:20 <\oren\> humansnack
16:56:29 <oerjan> <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 48.42 3874 nuke <-- disappointingly nondestructive tdnh
16:56:42 <gamemanj> "disappointingly nondestructive"?
16:56:50 <gamemanj> ...are you working on mad science experiments?
16:56:59 <\oren\> oerjan: it refers to a nuclear thermal rocket in KSP
16:57:11 <oerjan> huh
16:57:55 <oerjan> . o O ( your attempts to predict ksp behavior are futile... )
16:58:14 <gamemanj> . o O ( KSP would make a good pseudo-random number generator )
16:58:50 <\oren\> oerjan: specifically, I had a SSTO that was 48.42 tons in orbit, and had 3874 fuel to use, with its nuclear engines
16:59:41 <\oren\> basically that command is just an implementation of Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation
16:59:52 <oerjan> OKAY
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17:02:50 <gamemanj> "Operating Kerbals Are Yummy?"
17:03:04 <oerjan> thausible.
17:03:51 <oerjan> . o O ( one day i'll kick gamemanj in all caps. he'll never understand what happened. )
17:06:00 <gamemanj> "Karmic Integrators Concerning Kodak's Systems"?
17:06:14 <oerjan> as i said...
17:07:20 * gamemanj lightly TAPS oerjan on the head with a piece of cardboard.
17:08:09 <gamemanj> The only reason I was de-mystifying OKAY was because it didn't seem like you were annoyed, but you were using caps.
17:08:17 <oerjan> OKAY
17:08:32 <gamemanj> See, this is the kind of ambiguity I'm talking about...
17:08:47 <oerjan> i don't see what OKAY has to do with annoyance.
17:08:59 <gamemanj> It's the caps.
17:09:16 <oerjan> IF YOU SAY SO
17:09:32 <gamemanj> like, if I were to go on a long-ish lecture about ambiguity, and how it is a rather painful thing in the English language,
17:09:54 <gamemanj> and how, for example, it would be great if someone were to somehow remove the ambiguity in the English language while still keeping it English,
17:10:20 <gamemanj> or at least relatively so, then for example you could shout OKAY while I am busy typing this rant, however, you may not,
17:10:52 <\oren\> YAKO
17:11:02 <gamemanj> ...
17:12:03 <gamemanj> I was going to keep going until oerjan got annoyed and performed a perfect demonstration, but that works too.
17:12:06 <\oren\> DACCORD
17:12:18 <oerjan> i think you fail to get that i use capitals for sarcasm hth
17:12:31 <gamemanj> yes, I think I do fail to get
17:12:35 <\oren\> that is one of like 10 words I know in french
17:12:53 <oerjan> \oren\: i think you need an apostrophe hth
17:13:03 <\oren\> D"ACCORD
17:13:12 <gamemanj> It looks kind of apostrophe-needed-y.
17:13:21 <\oren\> there
17:13:23 <oerjan> ÖKAY
17:15:57 <\oren\> Ooh, there should be a command like metar but gives the weather in emoji
17:17:46 <oerjan> @@ @leet @metar ENVA
17:17:47 <lambdabot> 3NvA 021550z 31003x7 9999 phe\/\/026T(u scT050 8kn070 14/08 Q1008 n05i9 Rmk wInD 670ph7 vR801Kt
17:18:05 <oerjan> not aware of an emoji plugin, alas
17:33:49 <oerjan> @tell jafet <Jafet> (er, pizza and chili) <-- chilli seems to be an acceptable spelling hth
17:33:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:38:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:46.185.122.160]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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18:22:17 <int-e> inetnum: 46.185.64.0 - 46.185.127.255
18:22:17 <int-e> netname: KYIVSTAR-NET-9
18:22:17 <int-e> descr: Kyivstar GSM
18:22:17 <int-e> descr: Ukrainian mobile phone operator
18:22:47 <oerjan> i don't do range block until i see at least two ips from there...
18:23:07 <oerjan> also, the block log doesn't seem to allow searching for ranges :(
18:23:30 <oerjan> well, that range is probably too large, anyway.
18:23:34 <int-e> yeah I was just suggesting that I wouldn't be very optimistic about that particular block
18:23:41 <oerjan> OKAY
18:24:12 <oerjan> int-e: today's girl genius is quite informative, especially to people with previous theories hth
18:25:47 <oerjan> i doubt i will be keeping up this reading through all the abuse filter log. the system needs some tweaking...
18:26:22 <oerjan> (of the kind only fizzie can do, i suspect)
18:27:09 <int-e> I'm just confused.
18:27:20 <oerjan> about what
18:27:32 <int-e> I have enough trouble keeping up with GG's present... never mind the past.
18:27:39 <oerjan> okay
18:28:30 <int-e> also, workshops next week, three talks, kind of occupying my brain
18:32:34 <oerjan> int-e: everything i've seen so far fits very well with higgs being the "seventh" http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120516
18:35:02 <oerjan> especially after agatha met jenka recently.
18:35:26 <int-e> the seventh, no, that didn't stick to my mind.
18:35:48 <int-e> is Krosp stuck in Mechanicsburg as well?
18:36:38 <oerjan> no, he's out leading bears
18:36:49 <int-e> ah right
18:37:27 <oerjan> (jenka not only mentioning the "spymaster", but also proving that jägers don't have to look like jägers)
18:42:27 <oerjan> . o O ( funny how i can remember things like this and yet forget stupid things like to brush my teeth... )
18:43:22 <oerjan> . o O ( hm which i indeed haven't done yet... )
18:45:19 <gamemanj> oerjan: Short term, long term.
18:45:29 <oerjan> alas.
18:46:18 <oerjan> *ALAS
18:57:10 <gamemanj> ALpaca Activity System
18:57:50 <gamemanj> either that or Actively Learning Artificial System
18:58:55 <int-e> http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2016/09/01/714-chef/ ... so awful puns ... cannot look away!
19:02:08 <int-e> schlockmercenary is heading seems to aim for some spectacular fireworks on Sunday (again)
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19:17:16 <APNG> gamemanj, hey wanna see my bad code?
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19:38:27 <hppavilion[1]> Oh no...
19:38:37 <hppavilion[1]> Nononononononono
19:39:13 <hppavilion[1]> Four people in the Minnesota have been found guilty of conspiring to travel to the Middle East and support ISIS
19:39:42 <hppavilion[1]> They're considering whether they can put them in programs to "deradicalize" them
19:40:47 <APNG> yay conversion therapy ಠ_ಠ
19:41:47 <APNG> in other news, `cargo install prexcl` to install a silly IR/IL thingy https://crates.io/crates/prexcl/
19:42:08 <APNG> it's very badly written https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/commits/0719a787a321f503fb0f93c85ba9d2ae33a4d2b2?at=master
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21:21:26 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to remember reading about a cellular automaton that models how neighborhoods tend towards homogeneous race, even in a racism-free society
21:24:45 <hppavilion[1]> Something about how, even if you don't really care about race, if you're black and all of your neighbors are white or if you're white and all of your neighbors are black, you'll feel a bit out of place and be more likely to move away to a neighborhood with more people of the same race
21:25:16 <hppavilion[1]> And how that statistically results in self-segregated neighborhoods
21:25:22 <hppavilion[1]> But I can't remember the name of the model
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21:27:07 <prooftechnique> Schelling?
21:31:31 <hppavilion[1]> Yep, looks like it
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21:56:00 <shachaf> copumpkin: hipumpkin
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22:01:06 <copumpkin> hi shachaf :)
22:02:49 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh
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22:02:54 <hppavilion[1]> Time loop logic is interesting
22:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> It could be used to solve NP problems in polynomial time
22:04:03 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, "receive answer from future. Check answer. If correct, send to past at end of 5 minutes. If incorrect, send different answer (Successor of the answer, perhaps)
22:04:34 <hppavilion[1]> If stable time loops are possible (and self-contradicting time loops are impossible), then this guarantees that you will always receive the correct answer in polynomial time
22:04:54 <wob_jonas> yay!
22:05:18 <myname> hppavilion[1]: have a look at p/poly
22:05:29 <wob_jonas> debugging successful
22:05:32 <myname> that's basically what you described
22:05:44 <hppavilion[1]> (Really, any problem that can be checked in O(k) can be solved in O(k) using a stable time loop; in fact, I think that you receive the answer in O(1) time, but you still have to check)
22:05:48 <myname> without time constraints, though
22:06:07 <myname> also, the esolang twoducks is related
22:06:16 <myname> it can even solve the halting problem
22:06:20 <hppavilion[1]> Yep
22:06:28 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And thus is probably impossible
22:06:32 <hppavilion[1]> (but not necessarily)
22:07:11 <hppavilion[1]> Quantum Computers don't store quantumly on disk, do they?
22:07:12 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, gtg
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22:31:06 <shachaf> copumpkin: did you order the book twh
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23:18:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:AshuraTheHedgehog]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49680&oldid=49093 * AshuraTheHedgehog * (+0) /* Instructions */ fixed
23:18:53 <\oren\> Jeremy Corbyn claims that having beers after work is sexist. How about beers DURING work?
23:20:31 <boily> he\\oren\. I had a beer during work today. it wasn't sexist.
23:22:52 <\oren\> As did I
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23:39:03 <oerjan> bohily. you're lucky to live in a country/province where that's acceptable, i suspect.
23:39:47 <boily> maadwoerjan!
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23:40:16 <oerjan> i don't think there are many places in norway where it is. or sweden. stereotypically, denmark is different.
23:40:36 <boily> every Friday a pair of volunteers go to the dépanneur and grab two 12-packs. at 4:00pm, we drink a beer. very important tradition.
23:40:59 <oerjan> hm.
23:41:46 <oerjan> arabic? (but wouldn't that be salaam ...)
23:42:25 <oerjan> some other semitic or... hm, somali?
23:47:27 <boily> it's the squished version of "me ma wo adwoerjan" hth.
23:47:51 <oerjan> wat
23:48:48 <oerjan> well that looks mostly monosyllabic. chinese?
23:49:06 <oerjan> except adwo doesn't work.
23:49:29 <boily> far from any variation on Chinese.
23:49:45 <boily> Somali wasn't too too far.
23:50:01 <oerjan> eep
23:50:43 <oerjan> ethiopian (wait, is that even a language name)
23:51:07 * oerjan may be over his head today
23:51:13 <boily> eeeeh... maybe?
23:51:35 <boily> it's a group → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Semitic_languages
23:51:50 <oerjan> hm
23:51:59 <boily> think African west coast.
23:52:03 <oerjan> oh.
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23:52:32 <oerjan> *sigh*
23:52:55 <oerjan> ghanese, is that something?
23:53:34 <hppavilion[1]> Pet Peeve: Using emoji as words in a sentence
23:53:51 <oerjan> hm what's that thing youssoun dor [sp] sings...
23:54:16 <boily> Ghana is where it's spoken.
23:54:23 <oerjan> my memory won't even remember that...
23:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> While I am a fan of (or at least ambivalent to) emoji, they are not meant to be used as words, they are meant to be used to convey emotions (and, to a lesser extent, high-level ideas)
23:54:35 <hppavilion[1]> They don't fit as words
23:55:01 <hppavilion[1]> Don't write "I'm too [scared emoji] to go in there"
23:55:03 <oerjan> . o O ( /cs quiet hppavilion[1] )
23:55:13 <hppavilion[1]> Write "I'm too scared to go in there [scared emoji]"
23:55:15 <oerjan> *+ #esoteric
23:55:16 <hppavilion[1]> </rant>
23:55:57 <oerjan> boily: i cannot remember... oh wait, wolof it was
23:56:12 <oerjan> if that's not it, then i'm out of names i think
23:56:35 <boily> hppavellon[🌵]
23:56:50 <boily> it's shorter than wolof, but it has a "w".
23:56:56 <oerjan> `unidecode 🌵
23:56:57 <HackEgo> U+1F335 CACTUS \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8c b5 UTF-16BE: d83cdf35 Decimal: &#127797; \ 🌵 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
23:57:13 <oerjan> hm
23:57:29 <oerjan> wadi, or is that just an arabic word...
23:57:38 <oerjan> (which popped up for some reason)
23:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( If there were (ocean (or space)) pirates today, what would their slang be like? )
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23:57:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: somali hth
23:58:03 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: English pirates
23:58:03 <boily> wadi is Arabic for "river" hth.
23:58:10 <boily> oerjan: do you want the solution?
23:58:32 <hppavilion[1]> (I've heard it said that "Internet pirates don't have ships". I happen to know someone who frequently pirates movies and owns a boat.)
23:59:33 <oerjan> boily: well the only other options are cheating or making up words, so...
2016-09-03
00:00:11 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: but does he pirate movies from his boat
00:00:33 <boily> oerjan: Twi.
00:00:33 <oerjan> boily: (that means yes)
00:00:36 <oerjan> oh.
00:00:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Not usually, no, but he would if he had WiFi on it
00:00:42 <oerjan> never heard of.
00:00:48 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, what's the riddle?
00:00:49 <oerjan> Twifi
00:01:03 <hppavilion[1]> TwiPie
00:01:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: today's linguistic porthello hth
00:01:18 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, sure
00:01:34 <oerjan> (maadwoerjan)
00:02:08 <oerjan> scott aaronson finally posting again
00:02:26 <boily> apparently it has the [ɥ] phoneme. it's a good phoneme.
00:02:30 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( Are there any bots here that could be made to play the "Who/what am I?" game? )
00:02:34 <boily> who's scott aaronson?
00:02:41 <boily> hppavilion[1]: there are.
00:02:50 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: Am I alive?
00:02:51 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: i printed and bound a copy of a networking book for fnord..
00:03:04 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Oooh, which ones?
00:03:42 <oerjan> boily: mathematician doing things like studying quantum computation and blogging http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/
00:03:54 <boily> hppavilion[1]: can't remember, but there are 20-questions-like bots out there.
00:04:13 <boily> hppavilion[1]: e.g. https://github.com/rawsonj/triviabot
00:04:18 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, but it needs to be very #esoteric
00:04:31 <hppavilion[1]> "Am I the Riemann zeta function?"
00:04:42 <boily> fungot: do you have non-trivial zeroes?
00:04:42 <fungot> boily: there might be small differences in " alla ska tala bra svenska", as i write the gui using qt and do the longjmp atomically. if you
00:05:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i recall old #initgame at EFNet had such a game, although it didn't use a bot.
00:05:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:05:41 <oerjan> not sure if it still exists
00:05:43 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
00:05:50 <oerjan> (that was back in 1990s)
00:07:57 <oerjan> fungot: din svenska er riktigt bra tdh
00:07:57 <fungot> oerjan: you always want to declare the equivalent of /dev/ hda is a different bot.
00:08:05 <oerjan> *är
00:08:09 <oerjan> better than mine, anyway
00:08:46 <oerjan> hm it must have been before 1996
00:08:47 <boily> fungot: c'est quoi un "alla ska tala bra svenska"? ça sonne louche.
00:08:47 <fungot> boily: firebird has an extension to the reals must be isomorphic to peano numbers. to represent inexacts.
00:09:15 <shachaf> that's what i get for looking at a line of irc without looking at who wrote it
00:10:02 <oerjan> shachaf: wat
00:10:26 <shachaf> oerjan: i tried to make sense of fungotese tdnh
00:10:26 <fungot> shachaf: see cluelessness in a lesser state:
00:10:30 <shachaf> exactly
00:10:37 <oerjan> indeed tdnh
00:11:45 <hppavilion[1]> "Hitler often doubted whether Czechs were Aryan or not" -- Wikipedia
00:12:04 <hppavilion[1]> "The question of whether Italians were Aryan enough was questioned by the Nazi racial theorists."
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00:58:42 <Zarutian> I take as granted that people here have seen SmallTalk80|Squeak blocks, yes?
00:59:55 <zzo38> http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.html I look at this a bit (haven't read it entirely, yet), and actually even before looking at that document and hearing/reading the issues involved, I have thought of other ways. Such as, write a BASIC interpreter in C and a C compiler in BASIC; and possibly, make a program that does not actually produce an executable but instead something else such as writing the
01:00:46 <Zarutian> zzo38: your message got cut off at: else such as writing the
01:01:12 <zzo38> nstead something else such as writing the file out backwards
01:02:47 <oerjan> Zarutian: at least ais523 must, since Feather is supposed to be based on smalltalk
01:03:29 <Zarutian> zzo38: well another way is to do an Initial Program Load by hand and load in a Forth. Then use that to load a small C compiler written in Forth. Then use that C compiler to compile a bigger one.
01:03:37 <shachaf> oerjan: good afternoerjan
01:03:58 <oerjan> chaflom.
01:04:24 <Zarutian> oerjan: I took me a while to notice that there were no control flow statements in that Smalltalk at all.
01:04:30 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:04:31 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:04:31 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:04:31 <HackEgo> alpha//Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral.
01:04:32 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:04:33 <HackEgo> tadpole//A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater.
01:04:33 <HackEgo> studie//Studies show lots of things. Nobody reads them, though. Also: this study contradicts this other study.
01:04:33 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:04:33 <HackEgo> drone//drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times.
01:04:34 <HackEgo> at//At is a daemon for procrastinating commands.
01:04:35 <prooftechnique> oerjan: Was that a kiflom?
01:04:43 <oerjan> prooftechnique: what?
01:04:58 <prooftechnique> I'm almost certain that a tadpole is just a shorter pole
01:05:09 <prooftechnique> oerjan: The chaflom
01:05:19 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes, there is another, like that.
01:06:13 <oerjan> prooftechnique: i don't understand the question hth
01:06:57 <zzo38> They mention hardware stuff too in that document. I have actually thought of such things before, and try to think of if there are ways that compatible computer systems can be built out of parts by throwing dice to decide how to do it, somehow.
01:06:58 <oerjan> `slwd tadpole//s/.$/, and also a tad shorter./
01:06:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/tadpole//A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater, and also a tad shorter.
01:07:30 <prooftechnique> oerjan: Kiflom is a greeting and general exclamation used by fictional cultists in Grand Theft Auto. I was curious if your response to "good afternoerjan" was a reference to that. It seems that it wasn't, so now I'm left curious about it.
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01:07:57 <oerjan> prooftechnique: i was just doing some obvious mangling of shachaf and shalom hth
01:07:59 <zzo38> With FPGAs, there is IceStorm for one thing, at least.
01:09:15 <Zarutian> re the smalltalk blocks: structurally it is basically an sequence of invocations plus the arg vars defined between ||'s at the start of the block
01:09:23 <prooftechnique> Ah, that also makes sense.
01:10:09 <Zarutian> (smalltalk blocks looked like [ | varA breyta2 | ble doIt: varA ; ble doIt: breyta2 ] )
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01:14:03 <Zarutian> zzo38: the real question is, how did the compiler sabetour get access to the compiler binary?
01:14:37 <Zarutian> (on the machine where it is used and not necsirarly where it was produced)
01:15:20 <zzo38> O, yes, there is that too
01:21:39 <Zarutian> access control in computers (where the subjects are processes and the objects are various stuff that needs to be accessible to some but perhaps not all subjects) is something I have looked into rather extensively
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01:27:19 <quintopia> smalltalk is great. i dont know why it never really caught on
01:28:02 <quintopia> imagine a world where a type of smalltalk was used everywhere java is now
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01:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> So on the days of christmas
01:35:20 <hppavilion[1]> Does the singer receive- in total- 1 partridge in a pear tree, two turtle doves, three french hens, 4 calling birsd, 5 golden rings, 6 geese a-laying, 7 swans a-swimming, 8 maids a-milking, 9 ladies dancing, 10 lords a-leaping, 11 pipers piping, and 12 drummers drumming
01:37:25 <shachaf> That's on the 12th day
01:38:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: 12 partridges, 22 turtle doves, 30 french hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golden rings, 42 geese, 42 swans, 40 maids, 36 ladies... wait, isn't that the wrong order
01:39:33 <oerjan> hm nope
01:39:34 * moonythedwarf grabs a sort()
01:39:44 <shachaf> oerjan: something seems wrong there hth
01:40:07 <oerjan> shachaf: i've been mixing up the last four :(
01:40:38 <hppavilion[1]> Or 12 partridges in 12 pear trees, 22 turtle doves, 30 french hens, 36 calling birds, 40 golen rings, 42(!!!) swans a-swimming, 40 maids a-milking, 36 ladies dancing, 30 lords a-leaping, 22 pipers piping, 12 drummers drumming?
01:40:41 <shachaf> did you see https://twitter.com/luqui/status/770725569151447041
01:40:50 <hppavilion[1]> (Yes, oerjan beat me, but I wasn't going to give up on my typing
01:41:01 <shachaf> p. good huh
01:41:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you also forgot the geese hth
01:41:37 <shachaf> oerjan: fortunately you're a geeser
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01:41:49 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes, 42 geese a-laying
01:41:51 <hppavilion[1]> (!!!)
01:41:59 <oerjan> :t (!!!)
01:42:00 <lambdabot> error:
01:42:00 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: !!!
01:42:00 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘!!’ (imported from Data.List)
01:42:03 <oerjan> shocking
01:42:07 <shachaf> maybe i shouldn't make fun of oerjan's age
01:42:10 <boily> exclamating.
01:42:18 <shachaf> what does oerjan think
01:42:36 <oerjan> it's illogical since i'm not 42 anymore hth
01:43:06 <hppavilion[1]> Now to calculate the price...
01:43:14 <hppavilion[1]> (well, looks like someone already did)
01:44:36 <hppavilion[1]> Totals at 376 (364 if you consider "partridge in a pear tree" to be a single gift, but it's clearly two separate gifts)
01:44:56 <shachaf> a partridge in a pear tree is one gift
01:45:01 <hppavilion[1]> Is there any mathematical significance to 364(+1=365)?
01:45:17 <hppavilion[1]> No, it's two- the partridge and pear tree are two separate items, they're just bundled into one
01:45:31 <oerjan> just be glad the pears are not in season or you'd have to count them hth
01:45:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Is this going to be one of those things that can trigger flame wars like "couple" or "."?
01:45:33 <hppavilion[1]> )
01:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
01:45:40 <shachaf> > sum [i*(12-i) | i <- [1..12]]
01:45:43 <lambdabot> 286
01:45:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, 13-i
01:45:57 <shachaf> > sum [i*(13-i) | i <- [1..12]]
01:46:00 <lambdabot> 364
01:46:03 <shachaf> thx tdh
01:46:07 <shachaf> spot of the convolution, governor?
01:46:07 <deltab> how are they separate if they're bundled?
01:46:08 <hppavilion[1]> You receive gifts on the 12th day too
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01:46:32 <hppavilion[1]> deltab: They come together, but you could regift the Partridge and Pear Tree to different people
01:46:34 <oerjan> it's certainly convoluted.
01:48:52 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh, the "5 gold rings" might actually be a type of bird (a "ring-necked pheasant")
01:49:36 <hppavilion[1]> There's a town in Alaska called "Chicken"
01:49:50 <hppavilion[1]> They have been gearing up for war with Turkey for the last 8 months
01:50:41 <moonythedwarf> i wonder how useful a pair of 10D scissors would be
01:51:01 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf: There are different types of scissors!?
01:51:47 <moonythedwarf> you know, *holds up a 4 dimensional pair, and snips hppavilion[1]'s day in half with it*, like those
01:52:10 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
01:52:19 <hppavilion[1]> OH 10-dimensional scissors
01:52:26 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, are there 3-dimensional scissors in 4D?
01:52:57 <moonythedwarf> /shrug *snips more off of hppavilion[1]'s day*
01:54:20 <hppavilion[1]> I was looking up "on the 18th day of christmas"
01:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> I was suggested "bleeding on the 18th day of menstrual cycle"
01:54:48 <moonythedwarf> lol
01:54:48 <hppavilion[1]> Please see a doctor if you ever consider googling that.
01:54:50 <zzo38> It is not supposed to be "4 calling birds", it is supposed to be "colly birds" (black), and there is twelve lords leaping, and the rings are actual rings and not birds.
01:56:04 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, really?
01:56:13 <oerjan> zzo38: oh you've also heard the lords last?
01:56:24 <oerjan> hm i guess it's just one of the variations, then.
01:56:26 <zzo38> Yes, it is supposed to be twelve
01:56:31 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia disagrees
01:57:12 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yeah, the last four can be rearranged however you wnat
01:57:47 <hppavilion[1]> Ooh, 12 = "bells a-ringing" 11 = "ladies spinning" is a nice combo
01:58:20 <zzo38> Twelve lords is the proper way. Ten lords is a very common varation.
01:58:22 <APNG> making an esolang is impossible when you can't get any feedback >.>
01:58:30 <hppavilion[1]> 10 = "asses racing" per Sharp 1905
01:59:18 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia uses 10 lords
02:00:09 <zzo38> Well, they are wrong; it is supposed to be twelve.
02:00:47 <oerjan> APNG: people have seen so many lousy esolangs that you have to explain why your language is more interesting than average before they bother to look hth
02:01:23 <APNG> oerjan, its goal is to become an IR or IL for my 'real' language
02:01:24 * oerjan isn't looking too often these days, either.
02:02:32 <APNG> I only call it an esolang because it's not meant to be used directly
02:03:22 <APNG> even I don't know how to use it, personally .-.
02:03:31 <APNG> altho it's in a really unfinished state I guess...
02:05:16 <APNG> https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl
02:05:23 <APNG> "Prexcl is an esoteric proof-of-concept programming language. It's being used to test some concepts for Voxcl."
02:05:44 <APNG> version 0.0.3
02:06:18 <hppavilion[1]> On the pith day of christmas
02:06:31 <APNG> it's line-based too so that makes it a pain to REPL :/
02:07:00 <APNG> (would love to REPL it)
02:08:36 <zzo38> Voxcl is what anyways?
02:09:13 <hppavilion[1]> "On the 47th day of Christmas stderr gave to me: G"
02:12:01 <hppavilion[1]> "On the 404th day of christmas my browser gave to me: ε"
02:12:33 <shachaf> zzo38: Who decides what's the proper way and what's a variation?
02:12:46 <oerjan> zzo38: you seem to be arguing for wikipedia's 1780 version; note that it did not have the modern melody.
02:13:30 <oerjan> the first instance of the modern melody had lords 10th.
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02:15:54 <oerjan> (1909 version)
02:18:31 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( What is the opposite of a Purity Ring? )
02:19:23 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: a wedding ring obviously
02:19:45 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: No, a wedding ring is the level up from a purity ring
02:19:54 <APNG> zzo38, the other language I'm making, for use by humans
02:19:55 <hppavilion[1]> Purity ring is "promising to remain abstinent until marriage"
02:19:59 <APNG> general-purpose-ish
02:20:06 <APNG> mostly oriented towards autistic ppl
02:20:14 <APNG> (such as myself)
02:20:36 <oerjan> there are programming languages _not_ oriented toward autistic people?
02:20:51 <oerjan> that actually work?
02:21:16 <APNG> oerjan, yes
02:21:18 <APNG> the C preprocessor
02:21:36 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Oooh, I want to know :)
02:21:43 <hppavilion[1]> I was spectrum until the DSM-V
02:22:03 <APNG> hppavilion[1], huh?
02:22:13 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Language for autistic people
02:22:17 <APNG> so it's not this you wanna know about? http://jhnet.co.uk/articles/cpp_magic
02:22:25 <hppavilion[1]> No
02:22:54 <hppavilion[1]> (And let's be honest, I'll probably be spectrum again in the DSM VI because someone's probably going to protest the change)
02:23:04 <APNG> hppavilion[1], what change?
02:23:25 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: The DSM-V reclassified Asperger's as not autism
02:24:07 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
02:24:11 <APNG> uh, last I checked the DSM-V removed asperger's diagnosis and made autism include what was previously asperger's
02:24:18 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia is saying the exact opposite
02:24:23 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Huh, I guess I was wrong
02:24:54 <oerjan> x-ray autism
02:25:19 <APNG> hppavilion[1], so uh random question do you stim often?
02:25:28 <oerjan> @wn stim
02:25:31 <lambdabot> No match for "stim".
02:26:39 <APNG> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimming
02:27:17 <APNG> I love sound stims btw
02:27:32 <hppavilion[1]> Knuckle cracking may count; I do it pretty much obsessively (often only a few minutes after I've already done it, thus meaning there's no result)
02:27:51 <APNG> ah
02:27:58 <hppavilion[1]> But not particularly otherwise
02:28:09 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Is this language something like Lojban?
02:28:16 <oerjan> . o O ( hm is that why i keep chewing my tongue )
02:28:49 <APNG> hppavilion[1], lojban?
02:28:59 <APNG> hppavilion[1], uh, well
02:29:05 <APNG> I'm not sure if you can call voxcl a "language"
02:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: It's a spoken language designed to be 100% unambiguous
02:30:38 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: How so?
02:30:47 <hppavilion[1]> It said "for use by humans"
02:30:56 <APNG> hppavilion[1], yes, for use by humans
02:31:01 <hppavilion[1]> (Wait, you mean a natural language, don't you?)
02:31:04 <APNG> no
02:31:15 <APNG> it's similar to piet
02:31:18 <APNG> but user friendly
02:31:27 <APNG> and stuff
02:32:40 <APNG> (voxcl is, at least... prexcl is uh... definitely not...)
02:33:06 <APNG> (at least not in its current form)
02:33:13 <hppavilion[1]> "The first rule of time travel is that any and all modifications made to the timeline result in Hitler winning World War II. Run over a hippy in 1968? Hitler wins."
02:33:17 <hppavilion[1]> Oh :(
02:41:06 <APNG> hppavilion[1], I'll need testers for it too :P
02:41:25 <APNG> but if I get prexcl functional enough, it'll be much easier to develop voxcl
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02:50:44 <moonythedwarf> question about te standards here
02:50:44 <moonythedwarf> <moonythedwarf> ~>solve math.js pi*(8^8i)
02:50:45 <moonythedwarf> [21:38.55] <polybot> 5.2707178533289135e+7i
02:50:59 <moonythedwarf> is that enough to be at minimum a bit useful?
02:51:01 <moonythedwarf> :P
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03:02:05 <oerjan> > pi*(8**(0:+8))
03:02:08 <lambdabot> (-1.8842672676782886) :+ (-2.5137902189812014)
03:02:36 <oerjan> hm nope
03:02:51 <oerjan> > pi*(0:+8^8)
03:02:53 <lambdabot> 0.0 :+ 5.2707178533289135e7
03:04:41 <moonythedwarf> looks like my bot at least knows better formatting :P
03:08:19 <moonythedwarf> anyone here used the CAS Cocoa5?
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03:38:34 <hppavilion[1]> The Other Side is a fun episode of Stargate
03:41:45 <alercah> yeah
03:42:07 <alercah> Very good episode
03:43:17 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 17.65 832 nuke
03:43:17 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 2109.44126407687
03:50:53 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_budget_film is one thing
03:50:58 <hppavilion[1]> I want to see a negative budget film
03:52:37 <moonythedwarf> lol
03:54:28 * moonythedwarf grabs the 4D scissors again
03:55:26 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that would I guess be a film where people are actively taking money from you because you're making it
03:55:50 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah?
03:56:01 <hppavilion[1]> Though you could also make profit via negative remuneration
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04:06:07 <hppavilion[1]> "There's no [i] in \"I\""
04:06:27 -!- FireFly has joined.
04:08:06 <shachaf> \oren\: a budget is how much you spend, not how much people give you, i think
04:08:26 <shachaf> so it's a movie where people give you money to make it. seems reasonable.
04:10:39 <hppavilion[1]> How does one indicate that an equation is to be yelled?
04:13:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
04:14:58 <zzo38> By specifying "yell" on it. How this is done it depend on the context
04:23:38 -!- FireFly has joined.
04:29:28 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, FireFly is freenode/staff?
04:29:39 <FireFly> Yup
04:30:52 <FireFly> Only since fairly recently, though
04:31:42 <shachaf> Congrefly
04:31:53 <shachaf> sf\ffFf
04:32:51 <FireFly> nice regex, that
04:32:53 <FireFly> and thanks
04:33:04 <shachaf> the regex is just \f
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04:33:18 <FireFly> Yes, but deceivingly using f as the separator
04:33:23 <shachaf> i guess freenode decided to HireFly
04:33:39 <FireFly> I guess so
04:34:28 <FireFly> Hmm
04:35:27 <shachaf> i'm guessing they're not paying you, though
04:37:53 <shachaf> zzo38: Would "Bands with Other Bandits" be a good ability?
04:38:30 <FireFly> yeah, it's just volunteer stuff I guess
04:38:36 <shachaf> i would HireFly at that price
04:38:54 <alercah> what do you do?
04:39:49 <shachaf> Who, me?
04:39:53 <FireFly> bit of everything, though most of it is "support"-style stuff
04:39:59 <shachaf> Oh, FireFly.
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04:47:59 <shachaf> `? firefly
04:48:00 <HackEgo> FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
04:48:08 <shachaf> can't argue with that
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05:06:52 <oerjan> . o O ( this is a fiendish plot to avoid my swattings )
05:07:18 <shachaf> What is?
05:07:43 <oerjan> shachaf: getting staffed hth
05:08:03 <shachaf> Wait, getting staffed lets you avoid swatting?
05:08:20 <shachaf> Hmm, FireFly is an op in here now.
05:10:30 <oerjan> wait, is he
05:10:51 <shachaf> 5 freenode-staff +AFRefiorstv [modified 4y 11w 2d ago]
05:11:30 <oerjan> does that really work?
05:11:36 -!- augur has joined.
05:11:37 <shachaf> Does it not work?
05:11:40 <shachaf> If not, why is it in there?
05:11:46 <oerjan> well it's not his account name is it
05:12:13 <shachaf> Oh, I figured it was special somehow.
05:12:14 <oerjan> shachaf: because of freenode's policy of putting lapsed founderships there
05:12:24 <oerjan> it's been there for a long time
05:12:37 <oerjan> since andreou got deregistered, maybe
05:14:18 <oerjan> (note the F flag)
05:14:59 <oerjan> of course, i don't know what powers arbitrary staff has
05:15:22 <oerjan> perhaps he can just tell chanserv to op him anywhere
05:16:01 <shachaf> Maybe he can do that but he isn't supposed to unless a channel has freenode-staff in the op list.
05:16:11 <oerjan> WELL
05:16:28 <oerjan> i'm skeptical that it matters.
05:16:46 <shachaf> maybe you should swat him and see what happens hth
05:16:59 <shachaf> what do you think about fft
05:17:22 <oerjan> it's fast, it's furry, it's transformational.
05:17:29 <oerjan> was i close?
05:17:31 <shachaf> fancy fourier transform
05:17:39 <shachaf> pretty close
05:17:59 <shachaf> I went to conal's talk about it the other day: http://conal.net/talks/generic-fft.pdf
05:18:14 <oerjan> okay
05:18:28 <shachaf> It's a neat trick.
05:18:37 <shachaf> But maybe I don't fully understand it.
05:19:04 * oerjan doesn't really know what the trick is, he just knows fourier transforms in general. and has forgotten most of the proof details.
05:19:14 <shachaf> What do you do if you want to do FFT of a prime size?
05:19:36 <oerjan> work in Z/(pZ)
05:20:00 <oerjan> fourier transforms work in any locally compact abelian group.
05:20:25 <shachaf> oerjan: The trick seems to be that if you do an FFT of size N*M, you can do a nested FFT of size M and N.
05:20:32 <shachaf> But a bunch of things cancel out so you can do less work.
05:20:37 <oerjan> ...ok
05:20:48 <shachaf> Or something.
05:21:03 <oerjan> well that's just taking product of groups
05:21:18 <oerjan> assuming M and N are relatively prime
05:21:37 <shachaf> It works for any M and N.
05:21:46 <shachaf> Though there's a special version that uses relatively prime M and N.
05:21:52 <oerjan> aha
05:21:58 <shachaf> But often people use a power of 2, and one of M or N is 2.
05:23:09 <shachaf> s-or-and-
05:23:33 <zzo38> shachaf: There is no "Bandit" subtype I think?
05:23:42 <shachaf> zzo38: That's true, but there is a Bandit card.
05:23:47 <shachaf> So they could probably add the subtype.
05:23:56 <zzo38> If such a subtype is added, then, possibly (if the card to surround might help)
05:24:12 <shachaf> Or they could add a Bandit supertype.
05:24:52 <zzo38> Neither seems needed to me actually
05:25:06 <shachaf> I guess they could just add a Bandit type, in that case.
05:25:19 <zzo38> That also doesn't seem right
05:25:30 <zzo38> Subtype would be best if they were to add it at all.
05:28:20 <zzo38> Other kind of idea can be "bands with other creatures with bands with other"
05:40:45 <zzo38> Another thing to write might be "Whenever an object is countered, put a +1/+1 counter on ~."
05:55:31 <zzo38> Please review this code tell me if you see anything wrong or whatever else http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/artifact/890c961cedf74de7
05:56:02 <zzo38> For plain text download is http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=890c961cedf74de7997707e7899fe6d3eb5cc5c5
06:05:31 <shachaf> Why do you use Fossil?
06:06:16 <zzo38> It is better than Git
06:08:09 <shachaf> How?
06:27:24 <zzo38> The program is a single file and the commands are simpler too, and it work better for "cathedral" style project, and it is just better the way I work
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06:42:10 <zzo38> Also, it can use SQL for ticket queries.
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06:46:49 <Moony> moo
06:49:32 <zzo38> I did find a list of what disadvantages people mentioned about Fossil, but it is from six years ago, some of the things mentioned there are no longer true, and some are actually advantages to me. Specifically, the ticketing system using SQL is good, and lacking a rich text editor is also good. "The lack of deleting anything" and "No versioning of Fossil itself" are mentioned, but are no longer true.
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07:51:22 <izabera> i downloaded a movie and the video quality is perfect and the audio is fine too, but the audio track is slightly slower than the video
07:51:48 <izabera> like, after 1 hour or so the audio comes 2s sooner than it should
07:51:57 <izabera> how do i fix this? :X
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09:28:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49681&oldid=49678 * Qwerp-Derp * (+233)
09:29:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49682 * Qwerp-Derp * (+2924) Added Logicode page
09:29:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49683&oldid=49649 * Qwerp-Derp * (+15) Added Logicode.
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11:52:02 <FireFly> <shachaf> Maybe he can do that but he isn't supposed to unless a channel has freenode-staff in the op list ← freenode-staff is on the ACL because it's the dummy account used for 'successor' for single-# (on-topic) channels
11:52:29 <shachaf> Ah.
11:52:36 <shachaf> Maybe you need to shut this channel down now?
11:52:40 <shachaf> It's not very official.
11:52:50 <FireFly> though incidentally there *is* an ACL entry that is supposed to indicate "it's fine if staff helps us deal with spam", but it's *@freenode/staff/*
11:53:06 <shachaf> Ah, that must be what I was thinking of.
11:53:13 <FireFly> shachaf: not really, and I'm sure it's plenty official as a channel for esoteric.org
11:53:15 <shachaf> I've seen channels that did that.
11:53:26 <FireFly> I mean, official enough, that is
11:53:30 <shachaf> http://esoteric.org/ looks very official
11:53:38 <FireFly> er
11:53:49 <FireFly> esolangs.org*
11:53:50 <FireFly> >.>
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13:42:42 <int-e> so how did #esoteric survive anyway?
13:45:29 <int-e> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal hmm, #esocrypt... not even the founder is there anymore.
14:10:11 <izabera> is there a unicode character that's 2 columns wide and it looks like a circle?
14:11:09 <izabera> i tried with () but it doesn't really look like a circle and it's hollow
14:13:31 <FireFly> ⬤ maybe?
14:13:43 <izabera> my font doesn't have it :(
14:13:53 <izabera> but that's cool
14:14:24 <FireFly> You could also use a fullwidth O if you don't mind being very semantically incorrect
14:14:44 <FireFly> (and hollow)
14:45:51 <izabera> `unidecode 〠
14:45:52 <HackEgo> ​[U+3020 POSTAL MARK FACE]
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17:06:48 <\oren\> izabera: you're thinking of 〇
17:06:55 <\oren\> probably
17:07:04 <izabera> hollow too
17:07:26 <izabera> anyway i gave up
17:07:51 <izabera> i wanted to make a ncurses goban but it's clearly impossible with custom fonts
17:07:54 <izabera> without*
17:09:36 <\oren\> there are lots of characters that are circles with somehting inside
17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋐㋑㋒㋓㋔㋕㋖㋗㋘㋙㋚㋛㋜㋝㋞㋟
17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋠㋡㋢㋣㋤㋥㋦㋧㋨㋩㋪㋫㋬㋭㋮㋯
17:09:40 <\oren\> ㋰㋱㋲㋳㋴㋵㋶㋷㋸㋹㋺㋻㋼㋽㋾
17:10:30 <\oren\> as well as ones for every jamo
17:16:29 <FireFly> izabera: apparently you're supposed to use ⚆ ⚇ ⚈ ⚉ http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2600.pdf
17:16:54 <FireFly> http://xen.firefly.nu/up/2016-09-03_181646.png
17:29:35 <izabera> go stones don't have dots
17:30:51 <izabera> i have no idea what "go markers" are
17:32:31 <izabera> FireFly: i thought you played go?
17:33:07 <FireFly> I do
17:33:09 <FireFly> well
17:33:17 <FireFly> sort of a little bit
17:33:53 <FireFly> izabera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)#Notation_and_recording_games based on this it seems it's used for kifus or something
17:34:05 <FireFly> But I dunno what the dots are supposed to be for
17:34:57 <izabera> o.o kifus don't have stones
17:35:02 <izabera> they only have move numbers
17:35:37 <izabera> http://www.asahi.com/igo/photogallery/image/TKY200609210129.jpg
17:36:20 <FireFly> Yeah
17:43:21 <int-e> is that a sealed move?
17:43:59 <izabera> yes
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18:00:33 <moonythedwarf_> Bloop
18:11:53 <fizzie> izabera: FireFly: There's a thread on the Unicode mailing list about that: http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-March/003412.html
18:14:05 <fizzie> There's a few pointers to examples of use, e.g. http://library.msri.org/books/Book29/files/kim.pdf (diagram in chapter 4)
18:16:17 <fizzie> Though the actual answer seems to be that they just got dragged along by something called the "STIX (font) project", the records of which don't happen to mention where they came from.
18:16:53 <fizzie> Or something like that, anyway.
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18:52:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ps4star * New user account
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19:17:50 <APNG> hey look https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/src/1cbfca8c3a31/if.prexcl?at=master
19:17:55 <APNG> I haz conditionals
19:39:11 <int-e> I'm provisionally appalled.
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20:45:26 <moonythedwarf_> In you all's opinion, whats the optimal precision a calculator should have (in digits)
20:46:14 <int-e> 3
20:46:48 <moonythedwarf_> even for one that does algebra and allows function definitions?
20:47:29 <int-e> in that case what do you need numbers for?
20:47:54 <int-e> but basically I don't think that there is any such optimum
20:48:13 <moonythedwarf_> so this: [02:27.19] <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js 3600/60/60 # Accuracy check
20:48:13 <moonythedwarf_> [02:28.14] <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js sin(3600)/60/60 # Accuracy check
20:48:13 <moonythedwarf_> [02:28.15] <polybot> -7.280109972724905e-5
20:48:23 <moonythedwarf_> derp
20:48:31 <moonythedwarf_> i tried to edit it
20:48:32 <moonythedwarf_> i failed
20:56:37 <hppavilion[1]> We need more warning symbols
20:56:51 <moonythedwarf_> like what?
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21:16:27 <fizzie> Hm. When I press tab in python-mode, the status line just says "Wrong type argument: number-or-marker-p, nil", and doesn't indent anything. That's not optimal.
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23:24:46 <oerjan> @tell ais523 i notice that two more users have managed to perform the procedure, but am disturbed that one of them failed to resubmit the page creation that required it.
23:24:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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23:26:33 <oerjan> @tell fizzie i notice that two more users have managed to perform the new procedure today, but am disturbed that one of them failed to resubmit the page creation that required it. there _really_ needs to be some adjustment and i don't think it can be done purely through the filters.
23:26:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:29:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Simplified Circuit Diagram]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49684 * Oerjan * (+2857) Page creation by [[User:Ps4star]] that was caught in the spam filter. Our new procedure really needs some adjustment...
23:31:42 <oerjan> *sigh*
23:38:54 <FireFly> The only solution is to teach the spam filter to identify text about computer science-related topics
23:39:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Ps4star]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49685 * Oerjan * (+300) Created your page for you
23:40:46 <oerjan> FireFly: i don't think our wiki really works that way. Of course if we could at least use one of the more well-used filtering solutions...
23:41:37 <FireFly> It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek
23:41:55 <FireFly> Just throw machine learning at it; that'll solve everything!
23:41:57 <oerjan> i had sort of half-retired from wiki work but now i feel almost like i'm the only active admin...
23:42:00 <oerjan> FireFly: YEP
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23:42:16 <oerjan> then it'll shut out the rest of us and take over the world
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23:54:42 <fizzie> What sort of thing would you want to have?
23:54:58 <oerjan> well i'm not sure what really exists
23:55:24 <oerjan> but something that was good enough that we could open up the wiki for anonymous edits again would be ideal.
23:57:03 <fizzie> There's at least one daily-updating IP block list that I've seen recommended, at http://www.stopforumspam.com/downloads/
23:58:46 <shachaf> pikhq: So you're not going to the bay area #esoteric meeting in October?
23:58:48 <oerjan> also the idea of having some kind of emergency shutdown for when the spammers get through nevertheless seemed to have stalled after the new (brutal) filter got added.
23:59:08 <pikhq> Quite unlikely.
23:59:51 <oerjan> . o O ( there'll be just shachaf and an irc terminal )
23:59:59 <shachaf> Well, fizzie will be here.
2016-09-04
00:00:02 <oerjan> ooh
00:00:03 <shachaf> But he may be reluctant.
00:00:08 <pikhq> The Bay Area is expensive as shit when most possible employers see lack of degree and stop talking to you.
00:00:22 <shachaf> pikhq: Is that actually true?
00:00:32 <pikhq> That at least *appears* to be the case.
00:00:35 <shachaf> Even with Google experience?
00:01:03 <pikhq> I can't say for sure because I don't know for sure why I've had so much trouble, but that's what I'm inferring.
00:01:16 <shachaf> What approach have you been using?
00:01:32 <oerjan> fizzie: maybe try that list, and we can see how much it helps.
00:02:13 <pikhq> Finding people, sending resumes, along with talking to recruiters, etc. Mostly I've been getting interviews that seem to go well and then get turned down.
00:02:51 <pikhq> Often shortly after they ask about details of my college education.
00:03:38 <oerjan> :(
00:03:40 <pikhq> I mean, granted I don't know for sure that's what's doing it, but... it sure seems to be the case.
00:05:48 <fizzie> oerjan: I will try to see if there's a reasonably low-effort way to do it with the setup we have. As for the emergency shutdown, I'm not sure how to implement that. I know there's a bunch of relatively stable and well-supported/updated access control style extensions that could maybe be retrofitted to do it.
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00:10:36 <pikhq> But, yeah. Regardless, not too bad a time for me to finish up my degree.
00:14:11 <oerjan> @tell ais523 oh wait, Ps4Star didn't actually introduce emself. hm...
00:14:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:15:15 <fizzie> I saw their account creation, and went to have a look at the abusefilter log, but it hadn't triggered yet at that time.
00:15:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Ps4star]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49686&oldid=49685 * Oerjan * (+77) Oops I misread what happened a bit.
00:16:05 <oerjan> ah.
00:22:55 * oerjan feels less alone
00:23:24 <shachaf> oerjan: helloerjan
00:23:36 <shachaf> got any good puns for me today?
00:24:12 <oerjan> shellochaf.
00:24:59 <oerjan> surprisingly, i'm out.
00:25:29 <shachaf> ...I was hoping that would be followed by "quit: oerjan"
00:27:14 <oerjan> ok
00:27:23 <shachaf> That would have been a good pun.
00:27:29 <shachaf> I didn't actually want you to quit.
00:27:50 <oerjan> shocking
00:28:16 <shachaf> What's a good way to render directed graphs semi-interactively?
00:28:31 <shachaf> Probably in JavaScript, because that's where everything is nowadays.
00:28:39 <shachaf> I want to render sorting algorithms as discussed in this channel a few days ago.
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01:24:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Fizzie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49687&oldid=48912 * Fizzie * (+0) Post-upgrade edit test for 1.27.1.
01:25:11 <fizzie> That doesn't help at all with the spam, but was all I could manage to actually get done.
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01:37:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/abusefilter]] modify * Ais523 * modified [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/9/diff/prev/54]])
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02:13:45 <oerjan> hm?
02:16:32 <oerjan> i suppose that change might help a little, although it won't help those people who get put off altogether.
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04:00:30 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( I wish I could put Python scripts on my router. Maybe I'll have to figure out a way to do that someday
04:10:56 <quintopia> oerjan: i can help.
04:12:59 <oerjan> quintopia: hm?
04:14:37 <quintopia> did you read that book about the scottish cryptid hunters mauled by the asbestos-furred beast against which their fire defense was useless?
04:15:09 <oerjan> no.
04:15:25 * oerjan starts realizing _what_ quintopia is helping with...
04:15:29 <quintopia> The Unlightable Bear-Being of Ness?
04:16:36 <quintopia> (i *think* spoonerisms count as puns still)
04:19:56 <oerjan> maybe. it's a bit of knife-edge.
04:20:02 <oerjan> *of a
04:20:24 <oerjan> why must muphry's law apply to puns
04:22:09 <quintopia> or discussions thereof
04:22:46 <oerjan> ...
04:23:35 <quintopia> i really like that one tho. dunno if it would make any sense in norway tho
04:23:45 <quintopia> so maybe you cant use
04:25:27 <oerjan> the book is called "Tilværelsens uutholdelige letthet" in norwegian. it might need a bit of rethinking...
04:26:29 <quintopia> heh
04:27:22 <oerjan> the only animal in there is "vær" which means ram.
04:28:06 <quintopia> give up. even you cannot surmount it.
04:28:21 <oerjan> shocking
04:29:25 <quintopia> so what have i missed?
04:30:36 <oerjan> some linguistic porthellos, oren's irc script calculator...
04:30:51 <oerjan> `unicode snowflake
04:30:55 <HackEgo> ​❄
04:31:08 <oerjan> ❄calc 2+2
04:31:08 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd.
04:31:12 <oerjan> darn
04:31:24 <oerjan> ❄help
04:31:24 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd.
04:31:28 <hppavilion[1]> Spoonerism*alliteration = 0
04:31:55 <oerjan> ❄ocal 2+2
04:31:55 <\oren\>
04:31:59 <oerjan> ❄ocal 2+2p
04:31:59 <\oren\> ☃ 2
04:32:02 <oerjan> oops
04:32:07 <oerjan> ❄ocal 2 2+p
04:32:08 <\oren\> ☃ 4
04:32:12 <oerjan> there you go.
04:32:19 <hppavilion[1]> What is ❄ doing now?
04:32:22 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
04:32:24 <hppavilion[1]> ❄ hi
04:32:24 <\oren\> ☃ nonextant cmd.
04:32:27 <hppavilion[1]> Huh.
04:32:31 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: What client are you using?
04:32:44 <oerjan> irssi
04:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> OK
04:32:59 <oerjan> (/ctcp \oren\ VERSION)
04:33:32 <oerjan> there were some other commands too, which i've forgotten.
04:33:55 <quintopia> sad i missed todays porthellos. what were they?
04:34:03 <oerjan> oh not today
04:34:18 <oerjan> i was assuming you'd been gone for a while.
04:34:29 <oerjan> but boily hasn't been on yet.
04:35:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
04:35:07 <oerjan> yesterday though it was... maadwoerjan iirc
04:35:24 <oerjan> a language i'd never heard of.
04:35:26 <hppavilion[1]> Are porthellos being standardized now?
04:35:39 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: not particularly.
04:36:16 <oerjan> but in our ever-ongoing quest to think of new ones, boily and i started looking up other languages
04:37:00 <oerjan> which we have to guess
04:51:35 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAA
04:52:05 <\oren\> I have too many spacecraft doing stuff at once
04:53:13 <oerjan> any space junk creating collisions
04:55:21 <\oren\> oerjan: no, but several things have mysteriously exploded
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04:56:31 <\oren\> no casualties so far, but there's like 13 tourists on various spacecraft so it's only a matter of time
04:57:30 <oerjan> 13 tourists is bad luck
05:02:20 <\oren\> yeah counted them. 13 tourists, on four different tour craft...
05:08:40 <\oren\> If I can land this craft successfully, there will only be nine
05:10:39 <oerjan> . o O ( And then there were nine )
05:11:32 <oerjan> \oren\: also if unsuccessfully hth
05:17:29 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Bah! Everyone knows that if you HAVE to have 13 people in separate groups you should at least divide them evenly among the groups or the luck becomes 13x worse!
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05:32:25 <oerjan> a prime suggestion if i ever saw one.
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05:50:11 <zzo38> Can you explain this question? "If I have a Ouija board in my house, but I only use it at other properties, will my house still be whatever you people say it truly is?"
05:55:41 <oerjan> i think you should ask in the other kind of #esoteric hth
05:57:52 <oerjan> my hunch is, though, that it relates to some superstition about divination affecting houses where they are performed, but i have not heard that so i don't even know if it's supposed to be good or bad
05:58:20 <oerjan> and that might very well depend on who you ask. i'd expect christians to think it's bad and new agers to think it's good...
05:59:46 <oerjan> (the former because divination might be seen as magic or devil worship)
06:00:40 <oerjan> and the question presumably asks whether whatever the effect is happens even if the ouija board is only stored in the house.
06:03:08 <zzo38> (The question was posted on an article about a kind of ouija board in QWERTY order, and mentioning ideomotor effect, and that you might use a computer on-screen keyboard with hover mode. The people who wrote this article are not occult.)
06:04:12 <\oren\> Landing sucessful! nothing exploded
06:04:35 <oerjan> ic. i think the questioner may have been confused by the article and thought it _was_ about something occult, then.
06:07:33 <\oren\> we got almost a million funds from these tourists for bringing them home from the Mun safely
06:08:34 <oerjan> or perhaps there was a different comment that was, and which it was responding to.
06:09:07 <oerjan> \oren\: money from munatics
06:11:55 <\oren\> the great thing about his is that the vehicle was an SSTO and therefore we barely spent any money to get them ther and back
06:16:36 <\oren\> just fuel.
06:35:43 <zzo38> oerjan: That was the first comment.
06:36:34 <oerjan> zzo38: maybe it was to a deleted comment. (just theorizing here...)
06:40:13 <zzo38> Possibly
06:40:50 <zzo38> I have not checked the history, but even so they could have deleted it from the history too.
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07:19:24 <hppavilion[1]> Ha!
07:19:45 <hppavilion[1]> Minsky once offered a prize to anyone who could stop the Loebner Prize competition
07:19:54 <hppavilion[1]> Loebner claimed that made Minsky a co-sponsor
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07:33:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49688&oldid=49639 * Erikkonstas * (+13) HUGE FAULT!!
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07:49:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49689&oldid=49688 * Erikkonstas * (+197) faults
07:52:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49690&oldid=49689 * Erikkonstas * (+91) /* Optimizer */
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07:58:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49691&oldid=49682 * Qwerp-Derp * (-2)
08:09:55 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-LhWP_T0IA this is the most amazing sword swallowing acrobat i've seen in the past 10 minutes
08:33:02 <hppavilion[1]> "Unreliable Omniscient Third-Person Narrator"
08:33:11 <hppavilion[1]> "Omniscient First Person"
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10:16:31 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 39.65 1755 nuke
10:16:31 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 1963.13131378555
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13:46:22 <APNG> when truth tables are built into your language https://bitbucket.org/SoniEx2/prexcl/src/2085607cd948/if.prexcl?at=master
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15:40:21 <Taneb> I made a maths joke, I'm afraid
15:40:32 <Taneb> What do you call a sporadic group which lives in the Republic of Ireland?
15:41:44 <FireFly> I probably don't know enough group theory to get this
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15:46:24 <Taneb> The Munster Group
15:50:58 <int-e> I wonder how well known the provinces of Ireland are (I don't even recognize their names)
15:56:27 <alercah> Taneb: Dr. Stravinsky was a bit of an eccentric fellow, even for a pure mathematics professor.
15:57:02 <alercah> But he was nonetheless a good friend to have, because of his extensive personal library, full of rare and exotic mathematical texts.
15:57:46 <alercah> He was an expert curator, and his thousands of books were maintained in meticulous order; he was always able to find any book almost instantly.
15:58:01 <APic> B-)
15:59:08 <alercah> But the department chair had an issue with him: he hadn't fulfilled his mandatory service to the university in quite some time.
16:00:23 <alercah> Eventually, Dr. Stravinsky was called into the chair's office, and she said "You are required to put in service hours, so if you won't find something to do, I will. I've arranged for you to go down to the library and help them catalogue their books. This should be right up your alley."
16:00:45 <alercah> Realizing that his job was on the line, Dr. Stravinsky begrudgingly went over to the library to work.
16:00:51 <alercah> One week later, he was in the chair's office again.
16:00:54 <gamemanj> I'm guessing nobody in the library found any books.
16:01:52 <alercah> "The library tells me that you're useless sorting! How is it that you have a meticulously arranged personal library, yet when you go to the university library, you don't even seem to know where to start?"
16:02:06 <alercah> Dr. Stravinsky just replied, "I can only order well when given the choice!"
16:02:19 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanks'_square_forms_factorization in this algorithm, how do i choose k?
16:02:23 <Taneb> alercah, ...
16:02:36 <Taneb> If I knew how to make a squinty face smiley I would
16:02:41 <Taneb> Also, good joke :D
16:02:45 <gamemanj> "squinty face"?
16:03:06 <alercah> Thank you!
16:03:52 <gamemanj> I don't get the joke, but TBH I'm still trying to resolve the ambiguity of the word "choice".
16:03:58 <gamemanj> It could be the choice (of how to sort the books)
16:04:07 <gamemanj> or the choice (to sort the books)
16:04:24 <Taneb> gamemanj, the latter, also the axiom
16:05:51 <int-e> izabera: "[...] a small multiplier k. [...] Otherwise try another value of k." ... sounds to me like you start from 1 and increment until you're successful or give up
16:06:06 <izabera> when do i give up?
16:06:34 <alercah> gamemanj: it doesn't really matter. the pun is on the axiom of choice
16:06:45 <alercah> and its equivalence with the well-ordering principle
16:07:02 <gamemanj> now that makes sense
16:07:15 <gamemanj> but you see, I'm not exactly a maths person
16:07:34 <gamemanj> I'm a "why on earth did Wikipedia write all these expressions in this weird notation, when it makes so much more sense in code form" person
16:07:46 <gamemanj> (aka. a dumb idiot)
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16:19:09 <int-e> izabera: I have no idea. How does this compare to Pollard's rho method? (which is exprected to take O(sqrt(p)) steps where p is the smallest prime factor of N, so O(N^(1/4)) as well)
16:19:44 <int-e> But I don't have time for this right now.
16:19:47 <izabera> people on mathoverflow say that squfof is faster up to 64 bit
16:20:13 <izabera> https://mathoverflow.net/questions/114018/fastest-way-to-factor-integers-260
16:20:20 <izabera> actually they said 60 bits
16:20:59 <int-e> but in that case I guess you simply never give up
16:21:15 <izabera> ok
16:21:30 <int-e> (you should do primality tests in advance, of course, to avoid factoring primes)
16:21:38 <izabera> ok
16:21:54 <izabera> deterministic miller rabin first, and then k from 1 to infinity and beyond
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16:42:27 <petsu> < 3 < 3
16:43:53 <APic> ♥ ♥ 😸
16:46:49 <petsu> : D : D
16:47:05 <APic> http://mashable.com/2015/10/15/penis-emoji/#dSSp2lZKwmqi
17:03:50 <petsu> so like i just tore off my pinky toe toe nail
17:04:03 <petsu> anyone wa nt to see the pile of nails i've picked off
17:04:06 <petsu> thanks for listening
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19:28:32 <hppavilion[1]> TIL the National Film Registry, America's DVD collection where we store all the good movies in case the world ends in fire so we'll have something to watch after Armageddon, includes Star Wars (now: Star Wars: A New Hope) and Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
19:28:37 <hppavilion[1]> But not Return of the Jedi
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19:46:55 <FireFly> How come?
19:48:07 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit#United_States "The Library of Congress does not retain all works." huh.
19:48:14 <zzo38> DVD won't help; you will need to store them in uncompressed unencrypted format, in case the document for DVD-video decoding is also destroyed by the fire.
19:49:41 <FireFly> We have two libraries that are required by law to keep copies of all documents sent as legal deposit
19:50:15 <FireFly> For preservation and whatnot
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20:13:31 <gamemanj> zzo38: but I don't understand the YUV spec!
20:14:26 <gamemanj> (/NTSC/PAL/Kentucky Signal Encoding/fbdev archival format/if you are still reading this, the last two entries are fake)
20:21:06 <zzo38> Then watch them in grayscale.
20:26:59 <gamemanj> zzo38: what about the CRT specifications?
20:28:59 <zzo38> I don't know; you can figure out what to do
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20:42:13 <gamemanj> So I've thought of a good toy for children... (the idea, of course, being that in an apocalypse, one might survive): The Electron Gun!
21:02:03 <izabera> is it made only out of electrons?
21:02:34 <gamemanj> izabera: Sadly, no.
21:03:03 <gamemanj> But it fires electrons, with pinpoint accuracy! (Warning. Bringing an Electron Gun to a water gun fight may result in death.)
21:05:36 <izabera> how do you manage to target your opponent and bypass the air in between?
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21:05:56 <gamemanj> Just set the power level high enough, and destroy the air faster than it can refill the space.
21:06:09 <gamemanj> (Warning. This may not be scientifically accurate.)
21:06:53 <gamemanj> (Though, really, if people had to worry from eye cancer from being too close to CRTs, think about what a completely unguarded beam could do...)
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21:20:08 <FireFly> I read that as "made only out of elections" for some reason..
21:20:21 <Robdgreat> close enough
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21:35:14 <zzo38> Maybe you know some idea which can help I can make up some Magic: the Gathering cards and some sets and blocks (in some cases, existing blocks).
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21:35:48 <zzo38> I made up some cards but I would hope can make with collaboration.
21:45:41 <zzo38> We can also to make up the "esoteric programming block" of Magic: the Gathering cards.
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23:13:49 <zzo38> One card was "Human Supremacy Corporation", which is a black and white permanent card which damages non-Human creatures. How I had it before might not be as so good and I wanted to make a better card that does that; do you have idea?
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2016-09-05
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00:28:19 <oerjan> <FireFly> I probably don't know enough group theory to get this <-- i knew enough group theory but not enough irish geography.
00:28:58 <FireFly> I'd actually heard about the monster group, but that is probably more due to casual wikipedia browsing than maths knowledge
00:29:14 <oerjan> well it _is_ the most famous sporadic group.
00:29:21 <oerjan> (and the largest)
00:29:26 <FireFly> It's even listed on WP:UA
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01:42:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49692&oldid=49691 * Qwerp-Derp * (+64)
01:43:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Logicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49693&oldid=49692 * Qwerp-Derp * (+39)
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02:35:15 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Apparently, flagged half notes are a thing
02:35:20 <hppavilion[1]> (I think you're the one I was talking to)
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03:17:30 <Sgeo> What's the sound quality like on bone-conduction headphones?
03:18:06 <Robdgreat> this is relevant to my interests
03:19:43 <oerjan> it's a bit ossified.
03:19:59 * Robdgreat holds up a giant BOOO sign
03:21:11 <oerjan> thank you, i'll be here all week, unless i get dragged away.
04:24:49 <shachaf> `bienvenido Robdgreat
04:24:56 <HackEgo> Robdgreat: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
04:25:20 <shachaf> Ignore the bit about no hablamos espñol.
04:25:40 <shachaf> I thought the welcomes were supposed to be direct translations?
04:25:56 <Robdgreat> ok, help me out here. which bot am I ignoring?
04:26:04 <shachaf> Are you ignoring HackEgo?
04:26:13 <oerjan> shachaf: it's because of the venezuelans, who wouldn't get the point that this isn't a spanish channel.
04:26:19 <shachaf> `? welcome
04:26:20 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:26:23 <Robdgreat> there we go
04:26:30 <Robdgreat> I'm going to live to regret unignoring him
04:26:32 <shachaf> `relcome Robdgreat
04:26:34 <HackEgo> Robdgreat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:26:47 <oerjan> trust shachaf to work hard on the regretting part
04:27:11 <shachaf> `slwd welcome//s#!#! Unfortunately, most of us do not speak Spanish.#
04:27:20 <oerjan> shachaf: does this mean that you do speak spanish
04:27:21 <\oren\> man relcome looks a lot better with my new color scheme
04:27:27 <shachaf> Not me.
04:27:47 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't mean that it's false, just irrelevant.
04:28:08 <shachaf> oerjan: Come on, I've made so many improvements to HackEgo.
04:28:13 <oerjan> perhaps.
04:28:23 <shachaf> `? shaventions
04:28:24 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
04:28:32 <shachaf> Without me you'd still be echo > and seding all the time.
04:28:43 <oerjan> tru
04:28:44 <shachaf> And never culpriting, and so on.
04:29:07 <shachaf> `cwlprits shavention
04:29:09 <HackEgo> shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf
04:29:31 <\oren\> what'd doag?
04:29:32 <shachaf> `dowg shavention
04:29:37 <HackEgo> 2016-06-28 <shachaf> slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ 2016-06-25 <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ 2016-06-07 <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ 2016-06-05 <shachaf> sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ 2016-06-05 <shachaf> le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *lis
04:29:53 <shachaf> Pretty sure I shavented some more things since then.
04:30:21 <oerjan> hm i guess i invented the w versions, maybe.
04:30:30 <shachaf> `dog bin/doag
04:30:31 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found
04:30:38 <shachaf> `doag bin/doag
04:30:40 <HackEgo> 2016-06-27 <shachaf> mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\\n" -- "$@"
04:30:54 <shachaf> That was in June?!
04:31:12 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l template bin
04:31:16 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles \ bin/hoag \ bin/doag \ bin/macro \ bin/hog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/before
04:32:01 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, you shavented all the w versions.
04:33:21 <\oren\> `` rgrep -l wisdom bin
04:33:22 <HackEgo> bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/learn \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/leann \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/dowg \ bin/learn_append \ bin/howg \ bin/slwd \ bin/forget \ bin/? \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/wisdöm \ bin/cwlprits \ bin/footnote \ bin/wisdom \ bin/ls
04:33:33 <shachaf> `cat bin/wisdöm
04:33:34 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ wisdom | döts
04:33:38 <oerjan> `` cat bin/ho{,a}g
04:33:39 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:33:43 <shachaf> `cat bin/döts
04:33:44 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"
04:34:15 <shachaf> Are you going to shavent dog for completeness?
04:34:33 <oerjan> nah
04:34:38 <shachaf> `cat bin/lastwisdoms
04:34:39 <HackEgo> find .hg/store/data/wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 /bin/ls -t | perl -pe 'use POSIX;chop;$d=strftime("%F",localtime((stat($_))[9]));s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 // =;s=^=/$d/ = if$d ne$p;$p=$d;s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg;s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr hex$1=eg'
04:34:53 <shachaf> classic b_jonas
04:34:59 <shachaf> `cwlprism lastwisdoms
04:35:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cwlprism: not found
04:35:07 <shachaf> `cwlprits lastwisdoms
04:35:08 <oerjan> i just find it slightly inelegant that the a and w modifiers clash in position...
04:35:12 <HackEgo> No output.
04:35:13 <\oren\> what about höwg?
04:35:25 <oerjan> also, is a consistently used
04:35:28 <shachaf> oerjan: Ah, good point.
04:35:47 <\oren\> hoawg
04:35:53 <\oren\> howag
04:36:00 <\oren\> haowg
04:36:10 <oerjan> `cat bin/ho{w,a}g
04:36:10 <HackEgo> cat: bin/ho{w,a}g: No such file or directory
04:36:14 <oerjan> `` cat bin/ho{w,a}g
04:36:15 <HackEgo> hoag "wisdom/$1" \ hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:36:20 <shachaf> Let's see. The etymology is:
04:36:23 <shachaf> hog is hg log
04:36:41 <shachaf> hoag is a variant of hog (that uses --removed to show everything that might be relevant)
04:36:45 <shachaf> It's named after Jonathan Hoag
04:36:49 <oerjan> `` mv bin/h{ow,wa}g
04:36:54 <HackEgo> No output.
04:37:04 <shachaf> howg is a variant of howg that has the same pronunciation, but adds wisdom/
04:37:09 <oerjan> `hwag shavention
04:37:11 <HackEgo> ​<shachaf> slwd shavention//s#hogue#{h,d}oag# \ <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s#mk#tmp/, mk# \ <shachaf> sled wisdom/shavention//s/\\*list, // \ <shachaf> sedlast s/$/. Taneb invented them./ \ <shachaf> le/rn shavention/shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/hogue, le//rn, *list, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1
04:37:18 <oerjan> NOT ANY MORE
04:37:23 <shachaf> hwag?
04:37:25 <shachaf> tmns hth
04:37:51 <\oren\> whag
04:38:12 <shachaf> Look, you can't just rename one of them.
04:38:15 <shachaf> What about dowg?
04:38:21 <shachaf> You should document the naming scheme if you
04:38:25 <shachaf> 're going to change it.
04:39:17 <shachaf> `mkx bin/howg//echo "howg is deprecated! use hwag instead."; exec hwag "$@"
04:39:19 <HackEgo> bin/howg
04:39:42 <oerjan> `` cat bin/dowg
04:39:43 <HackEgo> doag "wisdom/$1"
04:40:14 <oerjan> `` mv bin/d{ow,wa}g
04:40:16 <HackEgo> No output.
04:41:14 * oerjan feels conflicted
04:42:16 <shachaf> I don't understand this new scheme.
04:42:22 <oerjan> `` mv bin/d{wa,ow}g
04:42:24 <HackEgo> No output.
04:42:29 <oerjan> `` mv bin/h{wa,ow}g
04:42:31 <HackEgo> No output.
04:42:37 <shachaf> I'd rather revert the whole thing unless there's a consistent rationale or heuristic for figuring out the right script.
04:43:15 <oerjan> OKAY
04:43:20 <oerjan> (DONE)
04:43:34 <oerjan> `` ls bin/*g
04:43:35 <HackEgo> bin/anonlog \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg \ bin/log \ bin/noping \ bin/pastalog \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastlog \ bin/ping \ bin/pong \ bin/preprocess-mtg \ bin/randomanonlog \ bin/rng \ bin/searchlog \ bin/something
04:43:47 <shachaf> `cat bin/anonlog
04:43:48 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(grep "<.*>" $file | shuf -n 1)" | sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ fi
04:44:23 <shachaf> `cat bin/something
04:44:23 <HackEgo> ​ELF............>.....0@.....@....... ..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....\......\........ ....................`......`.....`......¬....... .................`.....`.....à.......à................
04:44:27 <oerjan> `` ls bin/{d,h}*g
04:44:28 <HackEgo> bin/doag \ bin/dowg \ bin/hoag \ bin/hog \ bin/howg
04:44:31 <shachaf> `something
04:44:32 <HackEgo> Segmentation fault
04:44:36 <shachaf> very good
04:44:45 <oerjan> `` grep -v 'remove' bin/{d,h}*g
04:44:46 <HackEgo> bin/dowg:doag "wisdom/$1" \ bin/hog:hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@" \ bin/howg:hoag "wisdom/$1"
04:44:50 <shachaf> `` objdump -d bin/something | paste
04:44:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.15531
04:45:04 <shachaf> `hoag bin/something
04:45:06 <HackEgo> ​<hppavilion[1]> ` mv jnk/something bin/something
04:45:06 <Robdgreat> what's this rubbish?
04:45:13 <oerjan> it's only hog which doesn't use --removed
04:45:20 <shachaf> Yes.
04:45:26 <shachaf> Do we want to standardize on always using --removed?
04:45:41 <shachaf> It gives more complete but often irrelevant output.
04:45:43 <\oren\> Robdgreat: the'yre degugging and modifying the bot in realtime
04:46:21 <oerjan> `dog
04:46:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found
04:46:26 <shachaf> `hog bin/something
04:46:27 <HackEgo> ​<hppavilion[1]> ` mv jnk/something bin/something
04:46:33 <shachaf> Er.
04:46:35 <shachaf> `hog jnk/something
04:46:36 <HackEgo> ​<moon__> ` mv bin/Something jnk/something
04:46:42 <shachaf> `hog bin/Something
04:46:43 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> ` gcc -x c -o bin/Something wGAUV3ER \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c waDs9gmT -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c UZ3ESUfL -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c 6TL7V2mM -o bin/Something \ <Moon_> ` gcc -x c yn9LVhJv -o bin/Something
04:46:52 <shachaf> `hog wGAUV3ER
04:46:53 <HackEgo> ​<Moon_> revert \ <Moon_> fetch http://pastebin.com/raw/wGAUV3ER
04:46:59 <shachaf> `url wGAUV3ER
04:47:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wGAUV3ER
04:47:24 <\oren\> an error ocured
04:49:40 <\oren\> looks like that pastebin is some sort of crude interpreter
04:49:58 <oerjan> yeah one of moon_'s experiments.
04:50:41 <oerjan> (or did he make a wiki page? i've forgotten.)
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04:54:12 <oerjan> `relcome digin4
04:54:14 <HackEgo> digin4: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:55:44 <shachaf> Hmm, welcome should be the wisdom version of relcome
04:55:59 <oerjan> it is hth
04:57:42 <shachaf> true tdh
04:57:46 <shachaf> `? tmns
04:57:47 <HackEgo> tmns makes no sense.
04:57:54 <shachaf> the monkeys now sing
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04:59:41 <oerjan> the bananas now fly
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05:00:15 <oerjan> i think digin4 found us too surreal
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05:00:43 <oerjan> either that, or e's having connection trouble.
05:01:31 <shachaf> I should learn about surreal numbers.
05:01:35 <shachaf> Wasn't someone in here an expert?
05:02:11 <oerjan> i don't remember.
05:02:55 <shachaf> `? surreal number
05:02:56 <HackEgo> surreal number? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:07:57 <oerjan> `le/rn surreal number/Surrey numbers are very county, as long as they're not Spelthorne.
05:08:00 <HackEgo> Learned «surreal number»
05:09:01 <oerjan> that wisdom should be sufficiently surreal hth
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05:38:09 <cyra> i am frustrated at higher education mathematdicks
05:38:13 <cyra> : - (
05:38:21 <cyra> maybe i just have a bad teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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06:52:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Your lightning is a dick to Reindeese
06:54:00 <myname> wat
06:55:31 <oerjan> either hppavilion[1] is making a late surreal contribution, or he's finally cracked.
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07:26:15 <izabera> https://sites.google.com/a/bostic.com/keithbostic/vi/nvi-faq#A14
07:26:23 <izabera> You can buy version 13.3 source with an unrestricted license for $400 from AT&T Software Solutions by calling +1-800-462-8146. Binary redistribution of cscope is an additional $1500, one-time flat fee.
07:26:26 <izabera> suuuuuuuuuuuuure
07:26:30 <izabera> what a bargain
07:36:44 <myname> compiling seems to be expensive
07:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Logicode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49694 * Darkrifts * (+215) Created page with "In the '''IO''' section, it uses the term <pre>func</pre>, but aren't <pre>circ</pre> declarations the way to make functions? ~~~~"
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08:29:16 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan 300 reindeer were killed by lighting in Norway.
08:29:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:39:15 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can a (novel-length) book be written without chapter format without looking terrible? )
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16:02:04 <Slereah> Hey hey
16:04:40 <Slereah> I'm trying to rewrite my lazy bird interpreter
16:04:47 <Slereah> Trying to do it with C#
16:04:52 <Slereah> So far not working so good
16:04:54 <izabera> write it in lazy bird
16:05:05 <Slereah> I tried thusly :
16:05:06 <Slereah> del printx = x => { Console.Write('a'); return x; };
16:05:06 <Slereah> del m = x => x(x);
16:05:09 <Slereah> m(printx);
16:05:17 <Slereah> But that only gives me a single a
16:05:29 <Slereah> Not quite sure why, I think it might be the order of evaluation
16:09:15 <Slereah> Yeah I think the evaluation is backward compared to the normal operation
16:09:26 <Slereah> m(printx(i, 'a')(printx(i, 'b'))); prints "ab" rather than "ba"
16:09:38 <Slereah> Wait no
16:09:40 <Slereah> That's correct
16:09:45 <Slereah> But then why
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16:38:13 <tswett> Slereah: I don't seem to recall C# having a "del" keyword.
16:38:37 <Slereah> del is delegate del del(del a);
16:38:58 <Slereah> Is that kosher to make a pure lambda expression
16:39:14 <tswett> Yeah, seems fine.
16:39:40 <tswett> I might name it Del, though.
16:39:45 <Slereah> m(printx('a')); doesn't print two a's, even though printx('a')(printx('a')); does
16:40:06 <tswett> If it's named "del", then someone might mistake it for a keyword.
16:40:24 <Slereah> Psh who cares for someone :p
16:40:32 <Slereah> It's not like someone else will see that code
16:41:50 <tswett> So, when you evaluate m(printx('a')), that's going to first evaluate printx('a') (which will output 'a') and then call m() on the result.
16:42:40 <Slereah> Hm
16:42:48 <Slereah> Can I switch the order of evaluation?
16:43:14 <tswett> But wait, why does printx('a') typecheck? Isn't printx a "del", meaning it can only take a "del" as an argument?
16:43:17 <Slereah> It ain't called Lazy Bird for nothing
16:43:26 <tswett> Well, you could do something like...
16:43:29 <Slereah> printx isn't quite as pure
16:43:32 <tswett> m(unusedValue => printx('a'))
16:43:37 <Slereah> It's delegate del delchar(char c);
16:44:09 <tswett> All right.
16:44:12 <tswett> Maybe what you're after is...
16:44:34 <tswett> Something along the lines of...
16:44:58 <tswett> delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; };
16:45:32 <Slereah> Would that solve my problem though
16:45:49 <Slereah> If the evaluation is done in the wrong order it will change the behaviour of programs
16:46:12 <Slereah> Hm
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16:46:43 <Slereah> I could just rewrite a lambda interpreter myself but if I could change to lazy evaluation the existing lambdas it would be swell
16:47:25 <tswett> There's gonna be a nice way to do this in C#...
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16:47:49 <Slereah> Technically this would only affect the non-pure operators
16:48:01 <Slereah> But I'm not sure how to fix this especially for those
16:48:15 <tswett> I feel like just using "del", exactly as you're currently using it, ought to work.
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16:48:42 <tswett> Then again, maybe not.
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16:48:47 <tswett> Hmmmmm.
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16:49:31 <Slereah> Switching to delchar printx = inputChar => x => { Console.Write(inputChar); return x; }; still only produces one a
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16:50:33 <tswett> And what expression are you using now?
16:50:40 <tswett> What are you evaluating that only produces one a?
16:50:41 <Slereah> m(printx('a'));
16:50:51 <Slereah> With m = x => x(x);
16:51:22 <Caesura> https://gyazo.com/e0bc79e0dab2a2d8303b71cf935e62fe.png
16:51:31 <tswett> That would produce only one "a" even if lazy evaluation were used.
16:51:38 <Slereah> Would it?
16:51:46 <Slereah> Hm
16:51:51 <Slereah> What to do
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16:52:21 <tswett> m(printx('a')) would reduce to printx('a')(printx('a')). The outer printx('a') would get reduced and thus would print "a", leaving you with printx('a'). Then evaluation would finish.
16:52:34 <Slereah> Ah yes
16:52:45 <Slereah> Let's see what happens if I add an i
16:53:03 <Slereah> m(printx('a'))(i); does produce two i's
16:53:38 <Slereah> and u(u((printx('a'))))(i); does produce an infinite loop
16:53:39 <Slereah> All is well
16:53:51 <Slereah> I guess I need to do (my program)(i) by default
16:54:58 <Slereah> Now to do a parser for the code
16:55:15 <Slereah> I bet C# has a standard one by default
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16:58:07 <tswett> Parsing this oughta be pretty easy. Consider using recursion.
16:58:46 <Slereah> yeah shouldn't be too hard
16:58:56 <Slereah> There's only one operation to be applied
16:59:37 <tswett> public static LbExpression Parse(TextReader reader) { switch (reader.Read()) { case '`': LbExpression function = Parse(reader); LbExpression argument = Parse(reader); return function.Apply(reader); case ... } }
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17:25:16 <Slereah> So far so good
17:25:22 <Slereah> Let's try a more complicated expression
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17:26:55 <Slereah> `````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!i prints "hhee"
17:26:58 <Slereah> Not good
17:26:58 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ````````````.h.e.l.l.o.,.: not found
17:27:58 <Slereah> Ah, I see the problem
17:29:21 <Slereah> Gotta find the correct regular expression for a combinator expression
17:33:05 <Slereah> What's a regular expression if X = a is an expression and X = `XX is an expression
17:34:27 <Slereah> Apparently basic regexps do not handle nesting
17:34:29 <Slereah> hm
17:34:45 <Slereah> Might have to do it by hand
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17:45:35 <Sgeo> http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/desktop/opera-releases-bork-edition
17:46:32 <Slereah> Hello world works
17:46:34 <Slereah> Hurray
17:46:40 <Slereah> Now let's try the Fibonacci
17:47:21 <Slereah> "Process is terminated due to stack overflow"
17:47:27 <Slereah> Ouch
17:47:41 <Slereah> I guess when the program doesn't stop it doesn't print things until the end
17:48:49 <Slereah> wait no
17:48:58 <Slereah> `u`u.a prints characters before the stack overflow
17:48:59 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: u`u.a: not found
17:52:40 <Slereah> Maybe I should just rewrite it like before as a dynamic string
17:52:48 <Slereah> Might avoid the stack overflows
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19:03:26 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2624 0x2624
19:03:27 <HackEgo> ​☤
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19:56:48 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x262B 0x262C
19:56:49 <HackEgo> ​☫☬
19:57:21 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2670 0x2671
19:57:21 <HackEgo> ​♰♱
19:57:40 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2768 0x2775
19:57:41 <HackEgo> ​❨❩❪❫❬❭❮❯ \ ❰❱❲❳❴❵
19:58:29 <gamemanj> Like HTML tags, but more confusing.
19:58:35 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2380 0x238B
19:58:36 <HackEgo> ​⎀⎁⎂⎃⎄⎅⎆⎇⎈⎉⎊⎋
19:59:17 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2729 0x2730
19:59:17 <HackEgo> ​✩✪✫✬✭✮✯ \ ✰
19:59:34 <\oren\> my god its full of stars
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19:59:58 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x27AB 0x27AC
19:59:59 <HackEgo> ​➫➬
20:00:29 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0xFFE8 0xFFEE
20:00:30 <HackEgo> ​│←↑→↓■○
20:01:07 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0xFFFE 0xFFFE
20:01:08 <HackEgo> ​￾
20:07:57 <\oren\> ☫ and ☬​ are hard to draw
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20:25:11 <myname> space grunts looks like a mobile game for whiever it was who did 't like the turnbased aspect of roguelikes
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20:39:48 <gamemanj> turnbased means time to think
20:39:58 <myname> i like that
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21:20:15 <myname> i know way too few people that do graphical stuff
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21:39:32 <prooftechnique> Does 0xFFFE even have a definition?
21:39:54 <zzo38> It is an invalid Unicode character.
21:40:36 <prooftechnique> Phew
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22:34:32 <moonythedwarf_> moo
22:37:54 <\oren\> prooftechnique: it is invalid, but still can occur, so there is a glyph for it in my font
22:38:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
22:38:12 <moonythedwarf_> hi wob_jonas
22:38:20 <\oren\> helwob_jellonas!
22:39:03 <wob_jonas> My bank card again got physically damaged. This is the third time my bank card has had a shorter lifespan than their normal replacement time.
22:39:27 <wob_jonas> I know it's getting a lot of wear because I'm carrying it in my wallet all the time, but isn't that supposed to be sort of normal use for a bank card?
22:39:49 <\oren\> maybe your wallet is too small or too big
22:40:17 <\oren\> or you have too many cards in your wallet
22:40:38 <moonythedwarf_> Question: anyone know of a IRC bot that can preform the Riemann function?
22:41:00 <wob_jonas> This time it's not around the chip where it torn, but instead there's a tear starting from the short side of the card you hold in your hand when you insert it, on the side of the magnetic strip.
22:41:51 <wob_jonas> \oren\: maybe, or more likely too much cash and tickest and other non-card items, or the wallet is getting pulled tense and curved in my pocket
22:42:36 <wob_jonas> The usual advice is to not put your bank card (or other fragile items like a calculator or mobile phone) in your back pocket, but I never do that! I always have it in my front jeans pocket (or rarely in a bag).
22:43:05 -!- byteflame has joined.
22:44:04 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: we have some reasonably programmable bots, so presumably you can upload a short program that computes it
22:44:24 <moonythedwarf_> any of them have node.js?
22:44:32 <wob_jonas> you can probably find a ready-made implementation of it in some library
22:44:43 <wob_jonas> I don't know, I don't do node.js
22:44:45 <moonythedwarf_> Already have.
22:44:47 <moonythedwarf_> `` node
22:44:48 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: node: command not found
22:44:52 <moonythedwarf_> ):
22:45:08 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: you mean the Riemann zeta function, right?
22:45:13 <moonythedwarf_> Yes.
22:45:34 <moonythedwarf_> I think, leme check
22:46:11 <wob_jonas> This Riemann zeta: http://dlmf.nist.gov/25.2
22:47:26 <moonythedwarf_> Riemann(f, a, b, n, sampler)
22:47:26 <moonythedwarf_> Calculates the Riemann sum for a one-variable function f on the interval [a,b] with n equally-spaced divisons. If sampler is given, that function will be used to calculate which value to sample on each subinterval; otherwise, the left endpoint will be used.
22:47:28 <moonythedwarf_> Hmm
22:47:30 <moonythedwarf_> Dunno
22:48:18 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: that's not the Riemann zeta, that's quadrature (approximating a Riemann integral) in one dimension
22:48:21 <wob_jonas> totally different thing
22:48:34 <moonythedwarf_> Ah.
22:48:40 <moonythedwarf_> i just searched by name.
22:48:42 <moonythedwarf_> :L
22:49:07 * moonythedwarf_ feels stupid now
22:49:19 <wob_jonas> moonythedwarf_: ok, so what do you actually want?
22:49:29 <moonythedwarf_> Dunno.
22:49:38 <\oren\> I don't think I've ever put anything in the back pocket of my jeans. how would I sit?
22:50:35 <zzo38> In the Dungeons&Dragons game I managed to summon a grandfather clock into a prison cell and when it chimed the guards game down and wondered how it got there.
22:50:38 <wob_jonas> \oren\: I put a key there, and sometimes plastic bags. never bigger stuff.
22:51:06 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic?
22:51:36 <moonythedwarf_> ^
22:52:29 <wob_jonas> nah, I guess they probably already knew so it doesn't matter
22:52:45 <zzo38> There was a anti-magic field active, but the book that summoned the clock somehow overcomes that anti-magic, and so they were unable to unsummon it.
22:53:32 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is that plain arcane magic, or something different?
22:53:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:53:54 * zgrep pops in to glimpse at the backlog and sees an out of context «is it wise to alert your guards that you can do magic?», zgrep now imagines wob_jonas locked in a castle room, with guards outside guarding him
22:53:56 <zzo38> I don't know how the book works. I just wrote "clock" and there it was.
22:55:07 <moonythedwarf_> summon a pair of magic garden clippers that can cut through steel
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22:55:57 <wob_jonas> no wait, I think you do psionic magic, not arcane, right?
22:56:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: oh! just wrote "clock"? is that like Scribblenauts?
22:56:20 <zzo38> wob_jonas: My character can do both, but I don't know how this book works.
22:56:24 <moonythedwarf_> Sounds like it wob_jonas
22:56:40 <wob_jonas> have they tested whether it's an illusion?
22:56:52 <moonythedwarf_> maybe it can make a teleporter? and that ^
22:56:56 <zzo38> Not as far as I know
22:57:09 <zzo38> The reason for the clock was to time the expiration of a spell I had set up elsewhere. The spell created a large block and was meant to make noise by the cups sitting on top of it falling down once the spell expires (causing the block to disappear), to wake us up, but we were put in jail instead.
22:57:56 <zzo38> Therefore I trick the guards in going to the hotel just before it would expire, so they would hear the noise, enter the room and try to dispel the magic cups but they can't because it isn't magic. They might think therefore that we have stronger magic than they have because they can't dispel our magic.
22:58:51 <moonythedwarf_> may work, but couldnt they detect it?
22:59:17 <wob_jonas> wait, is the clock set to the right time for that? or do you have some way to find out what time it is, from a prison cell?
22:59:37 <zzo38> wob_jonas: That's what I used the clock for; to determine what time it was.
22:59:58 <wob_jonas> I guess you could just ask the guards
23:00:09 <zzo38> wob_jonas: They refused to answer.
23:00:22 <wob_jonas> zzo38: right, but did the clock arrive set to the right time and wound up?
23:00:57 <zzo38> Yes; it was early enough that I still knew what time it was, and it was wound up, too.
23:02:28 <zzo38> They might detect a dim aura if they tried, but not any stronger aura because there isn't actually any magic in effect in the hotel room (it has already expired), and in any case the cups themselves are not magical.
23:06:11 <wob_jonas> Are the guards familiar with the tale of the head of Vecna?
23:08:20 <zzo38> I don't know if they are or not
23:10:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:10:41 <moonythedwarf_> hi hppavilion[1]
23:12:07 <hppavilion[1]> Pedantic level 1: Replace all occurrences of pi with tau/2 (unless it's 2pi, in which case you just use tau)
23:12:32 <hppavilion[1]> Pedantic level 2: pi and tau are both acceptable, but replace all occurrences of 2 with tau/pi
23:13:04 <moonythedwarf_> hppavilion[1]: you mean Pendantic level tau / pi ?
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23:13:15 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: ...I am a failure.
23:13:36 <hppavilion[1]> Linguistic Prank Idea: Start interpreting numbers written in standard digital fashion as an abjad
23:13:55 <shachaf> There's nothing pedantic about using 2pi instead of pi
23:14:01 <shachaf> It's just preference.
23:14:16 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But using 'tau' exclusively I mean
23:14:26 <hppavilion[1]> That's a tiny bit pedantic
23:14:37 <shachaf> Not pedantic.
23:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> A little bit
23:14:46 <shachaf> Pedantic is the sort of thing I'm being right now.
23:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> Like, using tau/2 even when you JUST want pi
23:15:02 <hppavilion[1]> ...touche
23:15:04 <shachaf> But there's nothing incorrect about pi.
23:15:05 <zzo38> Some programs I wrote do use tau but not pi
23:15:13 <hppavilion[1]> (Or even better, an ultra-abjad, in which vowels aren't just inferred; which specific vowel sound is used is unnecessary)
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23:16:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm a fan of the middle camp, in which Pi and Tau are both acceptable. I would call it a Golden Mean Fallacy, but we're discussing pi(/tau), not any other irrational numbers
23:16:17 <zzo38> Of course it is correct there is nothing incorrect about pi, but tau seems to be work better in many cases; but it isn't (just) because of circles, anyways.
23:16:38 <zzo38> I consider both acceptable, but find tau more useful in more cases than pi.
23:17:32 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes, exactly
23:17:56 <shachaf> but that's not pedantry, yo
23:18:09 <hppavilion[1]> I think we should start using tau (together with pi) without any explanation at the beginning (so no tau = 2pi disambiguation), so people just have to start getting used to it
23:18:15 <moonythedwarf_> hppavilion[1]: use pi / pi t orepresent 1.
23:18:17 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It is if you systematically refuse to use pi
23:18:31 <shachaf> Still not pedantry. Just a preference.
23:18:49 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: That's level 3, and you have to use it when you would otherwise just drop it to imply a coefficient of 1
23:18:54 <shachaf> If I systematically refuse to eat bell peppers, it's not pedantry to not eat bell peppers.
23:19:20 <hppavilion[1]> ("The parent quadratic function is y = pi/pix^2+0x+0")
23:21:18 <moonythedwarf_> hppavilion[1]: here is a derivative for that: (d)/(dx)(π/(π x^2)+0 x+0) = -2/x^3\
23:21:26 <moonythedwarf_> s/\\/ /
23:21:47 <hppavilion[1]> Numeric Abjad: 0 [z], 1 [w], 2 [t], 3 [θ], 4 [f], 5 [k], 6 [s], 7 [j], 8 [p], 9 [n]
23:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Pedantry was the wrong word, but I couldn't think of anything better
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23:23:33 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: no [r]?
23:23:47 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Where would the [r] be?
23:24:27 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Also, [r] would lead to r-colored vowels, which would make things more confusing
23:24:33 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: dunno, anywhere so you get a saner set of consonants.
23:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> (between the sounds you can put any monopthong you like (or none, if you like); a decimal point is represented by a [b])
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23:25:47 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, 1 should be [g] because [w] can be a difficult sound sometimes
23:25:57 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Why is this system insane?
23:26:12 <wob_jonas> it's not insane, but [r] is common and useful
23:26:43 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Yeah, but [r] leads to r-coloring, which makes things harder to understand. I guess 0 could be [r]?
23:26:56 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, 0 is [r]
23:27:25 <moonythedwarf_> its just a _esoteric_ set of constants hppavilion[1] (;
23:28:42 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: (1) "an _esoteric_" (2) That winky face is backwards; while (: is acceptable (if strange), (; is never allowed, only ;) (3) Many of them were chosen based on their initial sound in English to make it easier for English speakers (one of the larger groups) to understand
23:30:08 <zzo38> But, English are not abjad.
23:30:11 <moonythedwarf_> but i always wink my _right_ eye
23:31:09 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yeah, but if I try to make the numbers have vowels, I lead to issues with numbers that don't contain any
23:31:32 <zzo38> Ah, OK
23:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. if the even digits are vowels and the odds are consonants, then you have trouble pronouncing 573597335
23:32:14 <zzo38> Yes, I can understand you
23:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> That was for anyone else reading (also, I'd already started typing and I don't like aborting messages)
23:33:21 * hppavilion[1] is pro-life, but only for relatively short Unicode strings used in text-only chat
23:35:49 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: you could take a language with a somewhat strict syllable structure, and have every two consecutive digits be pronounced as a syllable, or even some more complicated system
23:36:49 <zzo38> I did have an idea like that too; treat even positions as vowels and odd positions as consonants; that isn't quite same but it is a similar thing.
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23:37:20 <wob_jonas> I think there's even such a system, though not for generating any word, but as a system to read out numbers in a terse way
23:37:23 <wob_jonas> let me try to find it
23:38:06 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: I could, I suppose, though odd numbers complicate a bit (even though the solution is quite obvious)
23:38:59 <hppavilion[1]> Every digit has a consonant sound and a vowel; you make these in sequence, in odd-length strings the remaining symbol is put at the end of the last syllable
23:39:07 <wob_jonas> If you didn't want the system workable by humans, then you'd just use arithmetical coding or some sort to generate almost exactly every reasonable pronunciation in a reasonable rate.
23:39:07 <hppavilion[1]> But then you have to memorize twice as many sounds
23:39:26 <hppavilion[1]> Abjad is simpler though
23:39:34 <zzo38> The abjad system yes is simpler and it does work too.
23:41:04 <wob_jonas> make it an abjad then, with the ten sounds being some permutations of [p m t d n k v z S r] ?
23:42:45 <zzo38> I think hppavilion[1]'s idea to omit [r] does make some sense, due to r-colour-vowels; it would be too difficult including all sound anyways
23:43:00 <shachaf> hellob_jonas
23:43:11 <moonythedwarf_> hi shachaf
23:43:46 <wob_jonas> or you could use syllables such that each two digits encode a syllable consisting of a consonant or consonant cluster from a set of 20 and a vowel from a set of 5.
23:44:43 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: zzo38: If I do include [r], it has to be as 0 as that seems to be the only logical place for an r-colored vowel to exist
23:44:55 <shachaf> Better to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system
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23:45:28 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: I suppose I could, to make an abugida
23:45:41 <hppavilion[1]> But I think ultra-abjad is the best
23:45:49 <hppavilion[1]> (it'd most likely slowly evolve into an abjad)
23:46:55 <hppavilion[1]> OK, now to test
23:47:24 <wob_jonas> what if you use an escape digit so you encode 19 consonant clusters with 1, 2, ..., 9, 00, 01, ..., 09 respectively, such that the clusters you'd rather avoid at initial position get the codes staring by a zero?
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23:47:36 <wob_jonas> no wait, that's stupi
23:47:41 <wob_jonas> forget that
23:48:06 <wob_jonas> still, you could use an escape digit somehwo
23:48:19 <hppavilion[1]> (final digits are allowed to drop the subsequent vowel)
23:48:50 <hppavilion[1]> Reference: http://pastebin.com/QE4pPHu3
23:48:56 <hppavilion[1]> sin
23:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> fotar
23:49:27 <hppavilion[1]> fot
23:49:39 <hppavilion[1]> (read those back to me from the lookup)
23:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> (Maybe I should allow multiple similar sounds for each- so [t] and [d] are the same)
23:50:27 <zzo38> OK
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23:58:49 <hppavilion[1]> OK, updated
23:59:31 <zzo38> Sometimes in a Dungeons&Dragons game, the duration of a spell can be much more important than the spell itself.
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2016-09-06
00:00:16 <hppavilion[1]> Read these back to me in numeric format: sin, fot, footar,
00:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> sizus
00:01:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:01:14 -!- byteflame has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:01:53 <hppavilion[1]> helloerjan
00:01:59 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making an abjad for reading numbers
00:02:05 <oerjan> hippavilion[1]
00:02:38 <oerjan> @messages-foul
00:02:38 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 15h 33m 21s ago: 300 reindeer were killed by lighting in Norway.
00:02:42 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: shocking
00:02:53 -!- byteflame has joined.
00:03:07 * hppavilion[1] should really buy a swatter
00:04:23 <oerjan> you cannot buy my kind of swatter, unless you find one of those little shops that weren't there the previous day and won't be there the next
00:05:20 <hppavilion[1]> Google Maps can probably direct me to one of those
00:05:34 <oerjan> i'm not sure google maps updates fast enough
00:05:36 <hppavilion[1]> Do they move each day, or do they only exist on some days?
00:05:45 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, sounds like a bug
00:06:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:06:01 <oerjan> they only exist in _this_ dimension on rare occasions.
00:06:56 -!- xkapastel has joined.
00:06:57 <oerjan> see the relevant discworld book for explanation, i think it may have been the Light Fantastic.
00:07:32 <oerjan> (it's where the Luggage came from.)
00:07:52 -!- bibibi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:08:03 <oerjan> he quiquiquit
00:08:20 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
00:08:28 <oerjan> hm looks like an epidemic
00:09:10 <oerjan> they weren't on the same server
00:11:01 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Quit: See ya later, [INSERT_NAME_HERE]).
00:11:29 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined.
00:12:11 <oerjan> * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Can a (novel-length) book be written without chapter format without looking terrible? ) <-- hm aren't the discworld books written that way too... as a conscious decision.
00:12:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Are they?
00:12:45 <hppavilion[1]> I've never read them
00:12:45 <shachaf> At least one of them is.
00:12:50 <Moonythedwarf> ^
00:13:04 <shachaf> I remember because when I was youngish, it was bedtime, and I told my mother I would just read to the end of the chapter.
00:13:17 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: *applauds*
00:13:18 <shachaf> And then it turned out there were no chapters.
00:13:23 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:13:38 <oerjan> "Very few of the Discworld novels have chapter divisions and instead feature interweaving storylines. Pratchett is quoted as saying that he "just never got into the habit of chapters",[5] later adding that "I have to shove them in the putative YA books because my editor screams until I do"."
00:13:41 <hppavilion[1]> Last time I went to the local Bibliorium I was looking for Discworld (specifically, The Colour of Magic), but they didn't have it
00:13:50 -!- izabera has joined.
00:13:50 <hppavilion[1]> (They had later ones, but not the first one)
00:14:02 <hppavilion[1]> izabonjoura
00:14:10 <oerjan> looks like an unconscious decision that stuck, rather.
00:14:11 <shachaf> chapter? i 'adn't even met 'er!
00:15:16 <oerjan> Moonythedwarf: what are you ^ing
00:15:46 <oerjan> ^ doesn't work very well in ongoing chats.
00:15:52 <hppavilion[1]> My JUNIOR FEMALE SIBLING and I are reforming the calendar
00:16:13 <hppavilion[1]> 12 30-day months (plus a 5- or 6-day festival week), 5 6-day weeks to a month
00:16:27 <hppavilion[1]> (Weeks have always bugged me because they don't fit nicely within a month)
00:16:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it is actually somewhat recommended that you _don't_ start with the first one, since it's considered relatively bad. (i didn't follow that recommendation, possibly because i didn't hear of it in time.)
00:16:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, really?
00:17:07 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
00:17:10 <oerjan> i think Mort is considered the first really good one.
00:17:26 <hppavilion[1]> Which should I/you/one/us start with
00:17:31 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
00:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
00:17:44 <hppavilion[1]> (Is Mort an abbreviation?)
00:17:49 <hppavilion[1]> MoRT?
00:18:09 <oerjan> no, it's the name of the main character, but it's also obviously a pun on the book's plot idea.
00:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:18:36 <shachaf> Sorting algorithms typically use <. Can they avoid any comparisons in any cases if they use <=> instead?
00:18:39 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I want to hear the Canadian national anthem, but altered to sound more disappointed )
00:18:48 <hppavilion[1]> ("Oh... Canada...")
00:19:10 <zzo38> You should need to know some way to determine what order they are supposed to be sorted in
00:19:46 <oerjan> shachaf: pretty obviously exactly when there are equal elements...
00:19:52 <wob_jonas> shachaf: on chapters and Prattchet, see http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/words-from-the-master.html search for "chapter"
00:19:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Why?
00:20:17 <hppavilion[1]> A list shuffle is just a sort where the comparison function is λ(x, y): return coinflip();
00:20:28 <hppavilion[1]> (I think?)
00:20:35 <shachaf> oerjan: For example, insertion sort will use the optimal number of comparisons with < if all elements are equal.
00:20:42 <oerjan> shachaf: well if there are no equal elements, you cannot get better with <=>. if there are, then you need to test equality so cannot make do with only one < between the relevant pair
00:21:11 <wob_jonas> ah, I see, oerjan already said that
00:21:25 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you sure?
00:21:47 <oerjan> shachaf: hm maybe not.
00:22:22 <shachaf> sort [x,y] = if y < x then [y,x] else [x,y]
00:22:30 <oerjan> shachaf: you have to be careful then to always use < in the direction that gives the stability you want, if any.
00:22:42 <oerjan> but i guess if you do that, then it works.
00:22:47 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm interested in the question both when stability is required and when it isn't.
00:23:12 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, but if you do a plain mergesort (not a two-way one) or a heapsort then I think it's relatively easy to do that without additional bookkeeping
00:23:13 <oerjan> because there's no harm in treating = as <= if they're in the right order.
00:23:47 <shachaf> There's no harm, but will any sorting algorithm do unnecessary comparisons if they think that <=?
00:23:58 <shachaf> Changed plurality mid-sentence there.
00:24:09 <shachaf> I blame the word "do".
00:24:11 <oerjan> wob_jonas: sure, if you split in such a way that the lists to merge weren't interleaved originally.
00:24:47 <oerjan> actually i should have said < instead of <=, i guess.
00:24:54 -!- augur has joined.
00:25:28 <shachaf> <=> gives you more information, so it kind of seems that you ought to be able to use it.
00:25:31 <shachaf> But maybenot.
00:27:22 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined.
00:28:19 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> 12 30-day months (plus a 5- or 6-day festival week), 5 6-day weeks to a month <-- i think i've seen at least the first part somewhere...
00:28:24 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:28:59 * oerjan is bothered by week numbers, specifically by people using them when he has no idea when they are.
00:29:04 <shachaf> Maybe you're thinking of 13 28-day months?
00:29:55 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think you could have seen both
00:30:14 <shachaf> That one is pretty good.
00:31:34 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the French Republican Calendar has 12 months with 30 days each plus 5 or 6 extra days outside of months per year, but it's not the first one to get that idea
00:33:12 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]> A list shuffle is just a sort where the comparison function is λ(x, y): return coinflip(); <-- that doesn't actually work right, statistically.
00:33:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Depends on your sorting algorithm.
00:34:01 <shachaf> Certainly a lot of them assume transitivity.
00:34:29 <shachaf> If you use bogosort, it'll work correctly (but in 2^n time).
00:34:36 <wob_jonas> shachaf: oh, actually, non-transitive comparisons are interesting:
00:35:34 <wob_jonas> in particular, I wish some programming language libraries provided an interface for a balanced tree (and sort) ordered on a custom sorting routine that need not be transitive,
00:35:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not sure if it's 2^n, as- in my understanding of bogosort- you just shuffle the list and check if it's sorted
00:35:47 <hppavilion[1]> If yes, yay, if not, try again
00:35:51 <shachaf> Yes.
00:36:09 <shachaf> Which means getting n coin flips to return true.
00:36:17 <shachaf> Or do you mean that it's 2^(n-1)?
00:36:31 <oerjan> shachaf: well it cannot work correctly with any method that uses a bounded number of coin flips.
00:36:58 <shachaf> What if it's sorting a list of length 2?
00:37:04 <wob_jonas> with the guarantee that two elements will be ordered consistently if they're in separate strong components of the comparison function, but not necessarily if they're in different strong components.
00:37:14 * oerjan ignores shachaf's last comment.
00:37:36 <wob_jonas> also, they should probably allow that comparison functions might depend on state, with similar guarantees.
00:37:51 <shachaf> scourgean
00:38:16 <wob_jonas> so the lower bound search function in the tree can find any place within the strong component of what you're searching for.
00:39:31 <wob_jonas> so far I haven't seen any library that documents that it guarantees almost anything for an inconsistent or non-transitive comparison function, even though I think some _implementations_ might actually already guarantee this, and it wouldn't be hard to do so in most implementations
00:39:42 <wob_jonas> you can do it without overhead usually.
00:39:58 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I think that you can't even use the direct coinflip function; you need to either let the coinflip directly determine if you're done (O(2^-n), I think)
00:40:18 <hppavilion[1]> Or first chain it into something to check (which, yes, would be O(2^n). I think.)
00:40:29 <shachaf> I don't know what you're saying.
00:40:37 <shachaf> Nor why oerjan is ignoring my last comment.
00:40:40 <wob_jonas> Not every implementation supports inconsistent comparison functions, that's true, but still, the best ones do.
00:40:48 <oerjan> shachaf: because it's too trivial an objection.
00:41:05 <hppavilion[1]> If we could use time traveling computing, would algorithms be allowed to have negative O-time?
00:41:39 -!- polybot has joined.
00:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> And are there any conventional algorithms completing in O(k) time for which k shrinks?
00:41:43 <shachaf> Is it true just for 2 elements or for any power of 2?
00:41:50 <hppavilion[1]> Or O(sin(x)) algorithms?
00:42:09 <oerjan> shachaf: only 2 i think. 3 is always a factor of n! for n > 2.
00:42:25 <zzo38> What kind of algorithms will be O(sin(x))?
00:42:25 <shachaf> You can certainly end up with things like O(1/n) when talking about e.g. amortized algorithms.
00:42:40 <zzo38> I don't know
00:43:09 <oerjan> . o O ( this ignoring is going well, isn't it )
00:43:17 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: That's the question
00:43:28 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:43:29 <zzo38> Yes, and I don't know.
00:43:49 <shachaf> ignoring ring ring ring ring ring ring / banana phone
00:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> I have a feeling if you did have an O(sin(x)) algorithm, it'd just get simplified to O(1)
00:44:09 <shachaf> sin(x) = A(1)
00:45:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think it's impossible for k to shrink for arbitrarily large data, because to be bounded it cannot actually _check_ beyond a certain portion of the data, which prevents it from shrinking below the minimum for that amount.
00:46:06 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
00:46:12 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
00:46:58 <hppavilion[1]> But with time travel-based computation, could a problem have a complexity of e.g. O(-n^2)?
00:47:22 <oerjan> `? ring
00:47:23 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
00:47:56 <oerjan> i'm not sure the banana phone can fit in there.
00:49:00 <hppavilion[1]> "This algorithm completes in O(chr(n)) time"
00:49:18 <oerjan> chr?
00:49:29 <oerjan> > chr 65
00:49:32 <lambdabot> 'A'
00:49:48 <shachaf> oerjan: It's a characteristic function, obviously.
00:49:57 <oerjan> OKAY
00:51:33 <hppavilion[1]> No, I mean the chr that lambdabot used
00:52:11 <shachaf> If you write O(f) in computer science, f : N -> N is positive and increasing.
00:54:20 -!- polybot has joined.
00:54:21 <polybot> Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help <command> for help on a command.
00:54:21 <hppavilion[1]> (Is O(3^n) allowed, or do all O(k^n)s just reduce to O(2^n)?)
00:54:27 <hppavilion[1]> polybot: No.
00:54:35 <moonythedwarf_> ...
00:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> Also, whose bot is this?
00:54:41 <moonythedwarf_> Who invited the bot?
00:54:42 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: You?
00:54:46 <moonythedwarf_> No.
00:54:46 <hppavilion[1]> No
00:56:03 <moonythedwarf_> someone kick it :/
00:56:18 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting and stuff).
00:56:43 <hppavilion[1]> I want to know which bot it is
00:56:47 <hppavilion[1]> ~>help
00:56:47 <polybot> commmands:
00:56:51 <hppavilion[1]> None
00:56:55 <hppavilion[1]> So it's a new one
00:56:56 <moonythedwarf_> looks broken.
00:57:04 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: I think it's somebody's new bot
00:57:09 <moonythedwarf_> Probably
00:57:24 <zzo38> The identification says it is Node.js based and is apparently on Google's server.
00:57:39 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
00:57:50 <moonythedwarf_> Wierd
00:57:57 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: A public googlian server or, like, the thing Google itself runs on?
00:58:08 <moonythedwarf_> Most likely public.
00:58:35 <zzo38> I don't know?
00:58:52 <hppavilion[1]> ~>who
00:59:10 <hppavilion[1]> Googleusercontent
00:59:16 <hppavilion[1]> So public
00:59:25 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:59:29 <hppavilion[1]> And gone
00:59:35 <hppavilion[1]> But whose was it?
00:59:41 <moonythedwarf_> Dunno
00:59:42 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Yours?
00:59:55 <APNG> huh?
01:00:02 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Was polybot yours?
01:00:04 -!- polybot has joined.
01:00:04 <polybot> Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help <command> for help on a command.
01:00:14 <moonythedwarf_> annnd its back
01:00:35 <moonythedwarf_> ~>help
01:00:35 <polybot> commmands: ping, info, waitforMsgtest, talk, cat, art, solvefor, solve, done
01:00:41 <moonythedwarf_> Something changed.
01:00:41 <APNG> hppavilion[1], nah if I had a bot it'd support CTCP
01:00:48 <moonythedwarf_> /shrug
01:00:50 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: Did you add polybot?
01:00:51 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: if coding in c... o(n) o(n2), but it
01:00:52 <fizzie> Google Compute Engine has addresses like that.
01:00:56 <zzo38> Now there are some more command at least
01:01:05 <moonythedwarf_> ~>help solve
01:01:12 <moonythedwarf_> ?
01:01:14 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve
01:01:14 <polybot> Invalid solver undefined, valid solvers are math.js, algebra.js and mathics
01:01:29 <moonythedwarf_> Huh.
01:01:31 <APNG> ~>info
01:01:31 <polybot> Polybot v1.0.0
01:01:35 <APNG> useless
01:01:46 <zzo38> See if there is information on npm possibly?
01:01:53 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js
01:01:54 <polybot> undefined
01:02:04 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js asdf what do you do?
01:02:04 <polybot> { [SyntaxError: Unexpected end of expression (char 21)] char: 21 }
01:02:06 <zzo38> There is no package on npm called "polybot" anyways it seem
01:02:23 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js 1+1
01:02:23 <polybot> 2
01:02:26 <hppavilion[1]> Are any of these us: https://github.com/orgs/tjcsl/people
01:02:26 <APNG> ~>hcf
01:02:30 <moonythedwarf_> its a calculator.
01:02:32 <moonythedwarf_> wow
01:02:38 <moonythedwarf_> *facepalm*
01:02:44 <APNG> refuses to catch on fire, apparently
01:03:12 <moonythedwarf_> leme look up math.js
01:03:16 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: But probably an ultra-mega-badass one that does, like, solving the Riemann hypothesis
01:03:22 <APNG> hppavilion[1], I know fwilson
01:03:34 <moonythedwarf_> http://mathjs.org
01:03:38 <APNG> but I doubt they have anything to do with it
01:03:38 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Personally or heard of?
01:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve reimann_hypothesis
01:03:39 <polybot> Invalid solver reimann_hypothesis, valid solvers are math.js, algebra.js and mathics
01:03:46 <APNG> hppavilion[1], personally
01:03:52 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: IRL or online?
01:03:55 <APNG> online
01:03:58 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js
01:03:58 <polybot> undefined
01:04:03 <APNG> we talk a lot tho
01:04:03 <moonythedwarf_> its a rather good calculator apparently.
01:04:07 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Does fwilson know about #esoteric?
01:04:12 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js f() = 1+1; f()
01:04:12 <polybot> [2]
01:04:13 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js 2+5
01:04:13 <polybot> 7
01:04:33 <APNG> ~>prexcl 3f println test
01:04:34 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve algebra.js x = 5+3
01:04:34 <polybot> [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object]
01:04:38 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]> (Is O(3^n) allowed, or do all O(k^n)s just reduce to O(2^n)?) <-- they're not equivalent.
01:04:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OK
01:04:52 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve algebra.js x=5+3
01:04:52 <polybot> [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object]
01:04:59 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve algebra.js x x=5+3
01:04:59 <polybot> [TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object]
01:05:05 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve algebra.js x==5+3
01:05:05 <polybot> [TypeError: Cannot read property 'toString' of undefined]
01:05:11 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
01:05:14 <moonythedwarf_> i've heard of algebra.js, its a literal, actually rather bad, calculator.
01:05:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:05:48 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js sqrt(i)
01:05:48 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
01:05:48 <polybot> 0.7071067811865476 + 0.7071067811865476i
01:05:50 <APNG> hppavilion[1], well fwilson isn't even online atm
01:06:01 <moonythedwarf_> hey it can do complex/imaginary numbers
01:06:07 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js '5'+'3'
01:06:07 <polybot> { [SyntaxError: Value expected (char 1)] char: 1 }
01:06:17 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js 3/0
01:06:17 <polybot> Infinity
01:06:20 <hppavilion[1]> WRONG
01:06:24 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js 0/0
01:06:25 <polybot> NaN
01:06:28 <APNG> it does floats, nice
01:06:38 <moonythedwarf_> Imaginary numbers make it even better.
01:06:45 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: I think doing floats is the bare minimum for a decent calculator
01:06:50 <hppavilion[1]> The complexes are more impressive
01:06:55 <APNG> what happens if you mix floats and complexes?
01:07:05 <moonythedwarf_> the sqrt(i) happens
01:07:05 <APNG> like i/0
01:07:09 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: It returned a mix of floats and complexes to sqrt(i)
01:07:11 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js i/0
01:07:12 <polybot> Infinityi
01:07:17 <hppavilion[1]> Sure, why not
01:07:19 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js 0^0
01:07:19 <polybot> 1
01:07:20 <moonythedwarf_> imaginary infinity. wrong.
01:07:34 <hppavilion[1]> See if it does quaternions
01:07:42 <moonythedwarf_> ^ +1
01:07:46 <zzo38> Imaginary infinity? Wrong?
01:07:50 <hppavilion[1]> ~>solve math.js 2+3i+5j+7k
01:07:50 <polybot> [Error: Undefined symbol j]
01:07:54 <hppavilion[1]> Fail
01:07:56 <moonythedwarf_> a bot invaded the channel.
01:08:06 <moonythedwarf_> it happens to be a rather good calculator.
01:08:12 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js sqrt(i)
01:08:12 <polybot> 0.7071067811865476 + 0.7071067811865476i
01:08:16 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: A half-decent calculator at best
01:08:23 <moonythedwarf_> ^ +1
01:08:39 <hppavilion[1]> A GOOD calculator would be able to do quaternions, surreals, split-complex, duals, and Kleene Algebra
01:08:42 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js Riemann(sin,5,6,7)
01:08:42 <polybot> -0.7238935268566056
01:08:44 <hppavilion[1]> I think I need to leave for now.
01:08:53 <moonythedwarf_> kk bye
01:09:02 <APNG> ~>solve math.js (1,1,1) + (3,3,3)
01:09:02 <polybot> { [SyntaxError: Parenthesis ) expected (char 3)] char: 3 }
01:09:14 <APNG> ~>solve math.js (1;1;1) + (3;3;3)
01:09:14 <polybot> { [SyntaxError: Parenthesis ) expected (char 3)] char: 3 }
01:09:17 <APNG> ah fuck you
01:09:21 <APNG> can't do vectors
01:09:22 <moonythedwarf_> ~>sovle [1,1,1] + [3,3,3]
01:09:31 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js [1,1,1] + [3,3,3]
01:09:31 <polybot> [4, 4, 4]
01:09:36 <APNG> huh
01:09:54 <APNG> are those vectors tho?
01:09:54 <moonythedwarf_> try checking the math.js Documentation APNG
01:10:03 <APNG> moonythedwarf_, eh too lazy
01:10:05 <moonythedwarf_> It apparently knows what a matrix is, at least
01:10:15 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js gamma(5)
01:10:15 <polybot> 24
01:10:28 <zzo38> Does the matrix multiplication working?
01:10:30 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js gamma(5i)
01:10:30 <polybot> -2.717038835061503e-4 + 3.399328988721386e-4i
01:10:48 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js [6,7] * [7,6]
01:10:48 <polybot> 84
01:11:02 <moonythedwarf_> ?
01:11:11 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6,5]
01:11:11 <polybot> 106
01:11:17 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6,5i]
01:11:17 <polybot> 71 + 35i
01:11:24 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js [5,6,7] * [7,6i^7,5i]
01:11:24 <polybot> 35 - i
01:11:40 <zzo38> ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [2,3]
01:11:40 <polybot> [28, 38]
01:11:48 <zzo38> ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [2,3;4,5]
01:11:48 <polybot> [[34, 45], [46, 61]]
01:11:48 <moonythedwarf_> its actually a decent calculator.
01:12:05 <zzo38> ~>solve math.js [5,6;7,8] * [1,0;0,1]
01:12:05 <polybot> [[5, 6], [7, 8]]
01:12:10 <zzo38> O, it does work.
01:12:15 <oerjan> fizzie: fungot got killed
01:12:15 <APNG> it doesn't do vectors >.>
01:12:34 -!- FreeFull has joined.
01:12:37 <moonythedwarf_> APNG: at least it knows what a mathmatical function is
01:12:49 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js f(x) = x^3
01:12:49 <polybot> f(x)
01:12:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:13:04 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js f(4) # lets see if its presistant
01:13:04 <polybot> 64
01:13:09 <moonythedwarf_> its presistant
01:13:40 <moonythedwarf_> thats nice to know.
01:14:18 <moonythedwarf_> thanks to presistance we _might_ be able to make a turing machine/state machine in it
01:15:01 <moonythedwarf_> http://mathjs.org/docs/reference/functions.html
01:15:21 <moonythedwarf_> thats a list of all things it supports, i think its extended tho, Riemann is not a default function in math.js
01:15:26 <APNG> it's not fwilson's
01:16:37 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js inv([[5, 6], [7, 8]])
01:16:38 <polybot> [[-4, 3], [3.5, -2.5]]
01:17:23 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js 12 inches to feet
01:17:23 <polybot> 0.9999999999999998 feet
01:17:31 <oerjan> *persistence
01:17:38 <oerjan> ~>solve math.js sqrt(i)/0
01:17:38 <polybot> Infinity + Infinityi
01:17:41 <zzo38> `danddreclist 82
01:17:42 <HackEgo> danddreclist 82: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
01:18:24 <moonythedwarf_> its actually pretty good for a IRC bot with a calculator
01:18:26 <moonythedwarf_> ~>help
01:18:26 <polybot> commmands: ping, info, waitforMsgtest, talk, cat, art, solvefor, solve, done
01:18:33 <moonythedwarf_> ~>done
01:18:37 <moonythedwarf_> Nothing.
01:18:55 <moonythedwarf_> ~>waitforMsgtest
01:18:58 <moonythedwarf_> Nothing.
01:18:58 <polybot> You said: Nothing.
01:19:00 <APNG> ~>cat
01:19:00 <polybot> http://lorempixel.com/600/100/cats/
01:19:03 <moonythedwarf_> Oh nvm.
01:19:04 <APNG> ~>art
01:19:04 <polybot> http://lorempixel.com/100/600/abstract/
01:19:11 <APNG> why
01:19:14 <moonythedwarf_> ^
01:19:42 <moonythedwarf_> ~>talk
01:19:42 <myname> lol @ 12 foot
01:19:43 <polybot> Good morning.
01:19:48 <moonythedwarf_> ~>talk 231234
01:19:49 <polybot> In che anno e iniziata la prima guerra mondiale.
01:19:56 <moonythedwarf_> wat
01:20:04 <moonythedwarf_> thats just a damn cleverbot command.
01:20:07 <zzo38> I also don't know what it is.
01:20:09 <moonythedwarf_> useless++;
01:20:10 <oerjan> polybot: 1914 hth
01:20:34 <moonythedwarf_> the only thing thats actually useful here is the calculator (~>solve math.js)
01:20:36 <oerjan> ~>talk 986430
01:20:37 <polybot> Rispondi.
01:20:41 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve mathics 1+1
01:20:44 <oerjan> izabera: is it yours?
01:20:45 <polybot> In[1]:= 1+1Out[1]= 2
01:20:55 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve mathics Integrate[1+1]
01:20:57 <polybot> In[1]:= Integrate[1+1]Out[1]= Integrate[2]
01:21:09 <shachaf> This seems a little on the botspammy side.
01:21:15 <moonythedwarf_> ^ +1
01:21:25 <myname> i guess it calculates 12 inches * x cm/inches / y cm/foot
01:21:44 <moonythedwarf_> SMaybe
01:22:29 <oerjan> @karma useless
01:22:29 <lambdabot> useless has a karma of 0
01:22:54 <polybot> Hello, this is polybot's owner.
01:23:12 <APNG> I like fucking bot owners
01:23:13 <moonythedwarf_> ...
01:23:16 <APNG> may I fuck you?
01:23:22 <polybot> Uhhh.. wtf.
01:23:26 <APNG> :D
01:23:47 <moonythedwarf_> wtf APNG
01:24:05 <APNG> moonythedwarf_, lol, just playing with the bot
01:24:19 <polybot> im not a bot, im the owner of it speaking through it
01:24:32 <APNG> polybot, right...
01:24:35 <APNG> you look like a bot
01:24:48 <polybot> Goodbye.
01:24:59 <APNG> ???
01:25:23 <oerjan> APNG: you may have been a _tad_ impolite there hth
01:25:31 <APNG> you can't just say "goodbye" and keep the stupid bot in the channel >.>
01:26:10 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js 1+1
01:26:10 <polybot> 2
01:26:32 <APNG> oerjan, my job is to just remove the bot from the channel somehow
01:27:40 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js "Te\r\nQUIT\r\nst"
01:27:40 <polybot> "TeQUITst"
01:27:41 <oerjan> APNG: i don't see the bot as disruptive enough to remove, yet. it's mostly just responding to people's commands.
01:28:05 <moonythedwarf_> ~>solve math.js "Does this work? \7"
01:28:05 <APNG> yeah, mostly
01:28:05 <polybot> "Does this work? "
01:28:10 <APNG> <polybot> Hello, this is polybot's owner.
01:28:15 <APNG> except for those
01:28:29 <oerjan> APNG: well that counts as human.
01:28:37 <moonythedwarf_> ^
01:28:53 <APNG> then why's it going through the bot?
01:29:00 <APNG> owner's banned or something?
01:29:25 <oerjan> APNG: well that's _possible_ of course, but it also just be the mystery.
01:29:42 <shachaf> oerjan: myndzi is being disruptive by not adding bodies tdnh
01:30:04 <APNG> oerjan, seems easier to just remove it
01:30:17 <moonythedwarf_> shachaf: this room is already packed, full of esoteric madness and sanity
01:30:56 <shachaf> `? mad
01:30:56 <moonythedwarf_> APNG: it really doesnt.
01:30:57 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
01:31:05 <shachaf> curses
01:31:09 <moonythedwarf_> lol
01:31:20 <APNG> moonythedwarf_, /kick is easier than figuring out who's behind it
01:31:32 <zzo38> Do you like to make up the "esoteric programming" block of Magic: the Gathering cards?
01:31:39 <shachaf> APNG: You're being far more disruptive than the bot.
01:31:49 <moonythedwarf_> ^
01:31:53 <APNG> shachaf, how?
01:32:01 <shachaf> For example, you're being rude to the bot.
01:32:04 <moonythedwarf_> lol
01:32:06 <shachaf> Or its owner.
01:32:12 <shachaf> moonythedwarf_ is second-most disruptive.
01:32:19 <shachaf> I'm probably third.
01:32:20 <APNG> it's a bot .-.
01:32:34 <shachaf> You were being a jerk anyway.
01:32:41 * moonythedwarf_ hugs his silver metal for being second most disruptive
01:33:13 <shachaf> A good luck piece?
01:34:00 * moonythedwarf_ awaits the earning of the almighty string loop metal
01:34:07 <fizzie> oerjan: Yeah, our internet is entirely down. Apparently there's an ongoing 6-hour maintenance window right now nobody saw fit to mention to us.
01:34:09 <moonythedwarf_> derp *medal
01:34:20 <moonythedwarf_> Ouch.
01:34:31 <shachaf> fizzie: Whose?
01:35:24 <moonythedwarf_> fizzie, can you give your opinion in the bot that popped up randomly recently, polybot?
01:36:37 <fizzie> shachaf: Either BT or my ISP (zen.co.uk), I can't quite tell from their status page.
01:37:04 <fizzie> There's been a bunch previously as well, but this is the first one that actually took things down.
01:37:17 <fizzie> Presumably they're actually doing something this time.
01:37:28 <oerjan> wat. i'm actually logging #esoteric.
01:37:43 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:37:50 <oerjan> i thought i had specifically told irssi to log only privmsg
01:37:55 <oerjan> oh it left.
01:38:04 <oerjan> *sigh*
01:38:26 -!- polybot has joined.
01:38:27 <polybot> Type ~>help for all commands, and ~>help <command> for help on a command.
01:38:53 <shachaf> polybot: i think the join message is unnecessary hth
01:39:17 -!- polybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:39:46 -!- polybot has joined.
01:40:02 <moonythedwarf_> Well then, that proves the owner is listening.
01:41:31 <APNG> polybot, stop making fwilson look bad, change the bot's name
01:42:09 <polybot> how does it make fwilson look bad?
01:42:27 <APNG> polybot, fwilson made a bot called polybot 3 or so years ago
01:42:32 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
01:42:50 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*nodebot@*.147.197.104.bc.googleusercontent.com.
01:42:51 -!- oerjan has kicked polybot.
01:43:07 <moonythedwarf_> saw it comeing.
01:43:13 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
01:43:28 <APNG> oerjan, who?
01:43:47 <shachaf> oerjan: How can you tell?
01:43:50 <moonythedwarf_> ^
01:43:53 <oerjan> APNG: our channel's most insistently returning troll
01:44:07 <moonythedwarf_> i doubt its hagb4rd
01:44:17 <moonythedwarf_> There's no proof
01:44:26 <APNG> oerjan, hmm...
01:44:29 <myname> it's not that insistent imho
01:44:37 <APNG> they don't seem to have signed their work...
01:44:44 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
01:44:49 <APNG> oerjan, how can you be so sure?
01:44:52 <moonythedwarf_> ^
01:45:06 <oerjan> an interesting question. i don't wish that to be generally known hth
01:45:16 <moonythedwarf_> Free until proven guilty
01:45:28 <myname> nope.
01:45:36 <moonythedwarf_> Pure guesswork, i bet oerjan
01:45:36 <APNG> in my experience, the ppl usually considered trolls tend to sign their work
01:46:10 <APNG> uh, "work"
01:46:45 <moonythedwarf_> oerjan, proof is needed. otherwise it can be considered a unfair ban.
01:46:49 <oerjan> APNG: hagb4rd has never done that.
01:46:54 <shachaf> No proof is needed.
01:47:24 <shachaf> maybe hagb4rd is oerjan's alter ego
01:47:27 <myname> somewhere else we have somebody in therapy who is joining at least twice a weak holding huge monologues insulting any possible human
01:47:32 <oerjan> *MWAHAWAT*
01:48:38 <fizzie> In the next episode, oerjan turns out to be the polybot author and it was all some sort of crafty scheme.
01:48:41 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: myndzi is being disruptive by not adding bodies tdnh <-- tru.
01:48:50 <shachaf> ^celebrate
01:48:52 <APNG> uh ok
01:48:55 <shachaf> Oh, right.
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01:49:03 <APNG> also plurals are cool
01:49:07 <hppavilion[1]> There
01:49:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'm back
01:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: Oh, how are plurals cool?
01:49:21 <olsner> shachaf: it takes two bots to party
01:50:16 <APNG> hppavilion[1], well they're forced to deal with so much crap that I find them cool
01:50:33 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
01:50:42 <hppavilion[1]> I'd prefer pluralal consistency
01:50:46 <hppavilion[1]> Oxes
01:50:48 <hppavilion[1]> Cactuses
01:51:05 <myname> algae
01:51:15 <APNG> not that kind of plural
01:51:32 <myname> spaghetti
01:51:50 <hppavilion[1]> Buffalos
01:52:16 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I see "algae" more as a mass noun more than a plural
01:52:29 <zzo38> You should need the proper proof otherwise is no good. Alternatively, can it be similar to zero-knowledge-proof? I think not.
01:52:30 <myname> it is a plural
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01:53:19 <APNG> plurals are cooler than plurals
01:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> Like, algae:rain::alga:raindrop
01:53:56 <hppavilion[1]> APNG: What kind of plural?
01:54:11 <APNG> uh there's probably a better link I could use, but this'll do http://pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/
01:54:19 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And spaghetti is a dish, not a collection of individual objects
01:54:36 <APNG> that kind of plural is better than the grammar kind of plural
01:54:52 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, "duck" is its own plural (but "ducks" is also acceptable)
01:54:54 <myname> i used to fool my english class with people - peoples, pupil - ?
01:55:12 <APNG> 'peoples' is a thing
01:55:16 <myname> hppavilion[1]: spaghetti are more than one spaghetto hth
01:55:35 <myname> APNG: look it up. it's not what you'd expect
01:55:36 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I have never heard that. Is that actually valid Italian?
01:55:46 <myname> hppavilion[1]: it is
01:56:02 <myname> cappuccino is singular of cappuccini
01:56:09 <myname> same with gnocchi
01:56:19 <APNG> myname, it's impossible to look up
01:56:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: "peoples" is a thing and everyone knows it. When "people" is used as a singular, it refers to a society (or ethnicity, etc.), and "peoples" refers to several of these
01:56:41 <APNG> ^
01:56:44 <hppavilion[1]> So "Native American peoples" refers to the various groups of American Indian
01:56:59 <hppavilion[1]> And buffalo is weird- "buffalo", "bison", and (to a lesser extent) "buffalos"/"buffaloes" are all correct
01:57:42 <APNG> but yes, this kind of plural is cool: pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/
01:57:49 <hppavilion[1]> (If you said "buffaloes" to someone who wasn't particularly invested in bison- e.g. anyone not from the midwest- they'd probably take a few seconds to catch the use of a weird pluralization)
01:58:15 <hppavilion[1]> (well, maybe not. But everyone knows what you mean and it sounds like it could be right.)
01:58:48 <myname> also, the same italian one: graffito
01:59:00 <APNG> nvm .-.
01:59:08 -!- APNG has left ("o/").
01:59:23 <hppavilion[1]> deers, fishes/fishies, salmons, sheeps, squids (huh, apparently "squid" is a valid plural. I guess it's just that if there's more than one squid, you're too busy screaming to talk about it)
01:59:35 <hppavilion[1]> pigs, trouts
02:00:12 <hppavilion[1]> How do you refer to a single piece of the blues genre?
02:00:19 <hppavilion[1]> "It's a very nice blue"?
02:00:38 <myname> blues piece?
02:00:42 * moonythedwarf_ lurks
02:00:44 <myname> böues track
02:00:46 <myname> song
02:00:48 <myname> whatever
02:00:50 <hppavilion[1]> ox -> oxes, child -> ...OK, "children" is the only acceptable plural of child.
02:01:13 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, "brethren" is just an archaic pluralization of "brother"
02:01:33 <hppavilion[1]> (How do you triple-plural person? person -> people -> peoples -> ???)
02:01:42 <shachaf> You must never say "brethren" and "brothers" in the same breath.
02:01:52 <shachaf> But it's OK in multiple breathren.
02:01:52 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, "bee" is plural "been" in Ireland
02:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> Many goose is "goose", many moose is "meese"
02:02:54 <myname> english is a mess
02:03:12 <shachaf> many goose is goöse
02:03:49 <myname> but oh welö, in german, the plural of "status" is "status", but with a longer u
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02:04:07 <hppavilion[1]> "bitchen be crazy"
02:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, hyponyms are interesting
02:04:48 <myname> it is directly transfered from latin, i think
02:05:06 <hppavilion[1]> (I've heard people say that the word "bitch" (in the non-dog sense) shouldn't be used at work because it's sexist)
02:06:37 <hppavilion[1]> (OK, (a) it shouldn't be used at work because it's considered obscene, and you don't use obscene words at work in general unless you work for an institution that permits or encourages it (like a Porn site). (b) Really, it's no more sexist than "waitress" in my mind, because I've always thought of "bitch" as the feminine of "bastard". Now, using it to refer to a man, on the other hand...)
02:07:22 <hppavilion[1]> Also, I just learned about hyponyms and hypernyms, and now I'm happy
02:09:27 <moonythedwarf_> apparently polybot has a semioffical channel.
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02:12:46 <hppavilion[1]> Oooooh "pence" is "pennies"
02:14:03 <shachaf> Not in the US.
02:14:09 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well yeah
02:14:14 <shachaf> In the US "pennies" is $/100 and "pence" is £/100
02:14:53 <shachaf> Actually maybe in the US "pennies" is only the coins, not the currency.
02:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But I've heard "pence", a hector times, and I'm just now learning that it just means "cents" in a way referring to the coin
02:16:19 <hppavilion[1]> (I assume when you're referring to pennies themselves you still say pence? Like, "can you make change for this" "No, I only have 8 pence" (when he has more money than that, but the price-offer relation requires nine pennies to make exact change))
02:16:25 <pikhq> shachaf: "pennies" would generally refer to the coin in US English.
02:16:31 <shachaf> pikhq: I know.
02:17:07 <shachaf> The bizarre thing is that apparently some stocks are traded in pounds and some are traded in pence?
02:17:08 <pikhq> I don't think you would ever say "I only have 8 pennies" unless you literally only had 8 1¢ coins.
02:17:14 <shachaf> imo how odd
02:17:56 <pikhq> Huh, that is a little weird.
02:18:38 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_sterling
02:19:23 <pikhq> Not quite as weird as the now-historical practice in the US of trading stocks in 1/8th dollars.
02:19:37 <pikhq> (in 1997)
02:19:43 <pikhq> (erm, until 1997)
02:19:49 <hppavilion[1]> Like, say, you're buying something that costs ¤9.91 and carrying a ¤10. The cashier has 1 ¤5-bill, 5 ¤1-coins, 1 ¤0.10-coin, and 8 pennies. AFAICT, he needs 9 pennies to make exact change. Could he refer to the pennies themselves as "8 pence", even though he has far more than that amount of money aggregate?)
02:19:55 <hppavilion[1]> s/\)//
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02:20:13 <shachaf> pikhq: I thought it was until 2000 or so.
02:20:26 <shachaf> pikhq: But now they're experimenting with making the tick size for some stocks $0.05.
02:20:46 <pikhq> Ah, I was quoting when the NYSE made the switch.
02:20:59 <pikhq> But the SEC required all other markets to make the switch in 2001.
02:21:23 <shachaf> Well, when one exchange makes the switch to a finer tick size, of course all the rest want to make it too.
02:21:38 <shachaf> But I thought it was later than 1997. But I'm not sure.
02:22:03 <shachaf> pikhq: What do you think the tick size should be?
02:22:13 <pikhq> The NYSE is by no means the only exchange; it's entirely plausible it took other exchanges longer.
02:22:28 <pikhq> I dunno, the mil?
02:22:45 <shachaf> You don't want it too small.
02:23:11 <shachaf> The SEC already thinks $0.01 might be too small.
02:23:28 <shachaf> Which is why they're experimenting with $/20.
02:23:30 <pikhq> There's a reason I didn't say FLT_EPSILON. :P
02:23:37 <pikhq> So, hrm.
02:25:18 <hppavilion[1]> Personally, I think that value of a stock should be indicated by k ∈ ℂ
02:26:13 <hppavilion[1]> Ok, why 1/8? I mean, I'm sure the 8 is for technical reasons (2^3=8, ofc), but shouldn't they at least have used 16 (2^4, much nicer for bytes)
02:26:37 <hppavilion[1]> Really, I would've gone with 256 (2^8, 1 full byte, easy for computers)
02:26:53 <shachaf> In European markets tick size often varies with price.
02:27:05 <pikhq> It wasn't for technical reasons, it's for hilarious legacy reasons.
02:27:07 <shachaf> Which makes sense
02:27:22 <pikhq> The US used to use the Spanish dollar, or pieces-of-eight, as currency.
02:27:23 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Ah, did their old computers use 6-bit bytes?
02:27:27 <pikhq> It had 8 natural subdivisions.
02:27:37 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
02:27:41 <hppavilion[1]> That works
02:27:57 <hppavilion[1]> (I think there should be a metric unit of value of some sort)
02:27:59 <shachaf> But the minimum tick size *was* $/16
02:28:13 <hppavilion[1]> (At least in the #esoteric system)
02:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> Ah?
02:28:30 <pikhq> $/16 was switched *to* as part of migrating to $/10.
02:28:38 <pikhq> $/8 was the historical practice.
02:28:47 <pikhq> $/16 was the practice at time of decimalization.
02:28:54 <pikhq> Why this made sense is beyond me.
02:29:07 <shachaf> What's wrong with $/16?
02:29:22 <hppavilion[1]> (What unit would the #esoteric system of measurement start with? As in, like, if we do time we can say that the base distance is how far light moves in that time)
02:29:25 <pikhq> Nothing, it's just weird to do $/8->$/16->$/10 rather than $/8->$/10.
02:29:58 <hppavilion[1]> (It'd probably start with shachafs, tbh)
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02:33:51 <hppavilion[1]> OK, base unit of distance is 0.865 meters (names later)
02:34:10 <shachaf> That's not interesting.
02:34:21 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What isn't?
02:34:31 <shachaf> It's just a different number. Boring. All you do is multiply.
02:34:45 <shachaf> If you want something interesting, produce a whole new perspective on length and measurement.
02:34:47 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yeah, I know, but that could be said of pretty much any unit
02:34:57 <shachaf> Like general relativity, maybe?
02:35:02 <hppavilion[1]> Yes, and how would one do that? I think length is fairly objective
02:35:06 <hppavilion[1]> Well, yes, relativity
02:35:17 <shachaf> Or special, I guess. Whatever.
02:35:32 <shachaf> That's one sort of perspective that could be esoteric. If it wasn't so mainstream.
02:35:42 <shachaf> Invent something like that.
02:35:46 <hppavilion[1]> "This is the perceived height of Einstein to a stationary observer while moving at 15% of the speed of light"
02:36:04 <shachaf> Boring.
02:36:07 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, interesting measurement is hard, OK?
02:36:17 <shachaf> Sure.
02:36:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well what do you think would be interesting?
02:36:32 <shachaf> I don't know.
02:36:47 <shachaf> Linear inches would maybe be an esoteric measurement if airlines didn't use them.
02:36:51 <hppavilion[1]> I don't think it's even possible to esotericize measurement without losing any semblance of consistency
02:37:14 <shachaf> See, that's exactly why you need to step back.
02:37:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: OK
02:37:24 * hppavilion[1] steps back
02:37:29 <hppavilion[1]> Do you want me to drop consistency?
02:37:53 <shachaf> One of the ideas is measuring time and space using the same units.
02:37:58 <shachaf> Maybe you can measure other things using the same units.
02:37:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I was going to go for things like m^(1/2) at some point
02:38:09 <hppavilion[1]> Ooooh, I have always wanted that
02:38:18 <shachaf> OK, that could be intersting, if you figure out something that works.
02:38:30 <shachaf> Certainly more interesting than 86.5% of a metre.
02:38:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: 86.5% of a meter is 1/2 the height of Hitler
02:38:56 <hppavilion[1]> (I was going to go for Turing, but I couldn't find his height)
02:38:56 <shachaf> OK, but that's not interesting.
02:39:06 <hppavilion[1]> It isn't, but I needed somethign
02:39:07 <shachaf> It's already taken.
02:39:10 <shachaf> You can use the smoot if you want.
02:39:22 <hppavilion[1]> No, I'm not using that anymore
02:39:55 <hppavilion[1]> The problem is there's no physical interpretation of root meters
02:40:20 <shachaf> Did I talk about volume time in here?
02:40:35 <shachaf> I think I did, and oerjan said something about how when all you have is nail polish, everything looks like a nail.
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02:41:42 <hppavilion[1]> (I think there's an equation with m^(1/2) in it, but I forgot what it is)
02:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> In materials engineering, there's MPa(m)^1/2
02:44:15 <hppavilion[1]> I take it that's megapascals*m^(1/2)
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02:47:41 <hppavilion[1]> You could measure expansion in m^2/s, I suppose. If you wanted to measure the growth of a side (assuming it's a perfect square; if it isn't, you math it so it is), you'd have to use m/sqrt(s)
02:48:42 <hppavilion[1]> If it had to be in per-second notation, you'd use m*sqrt(s)/s. If you measure it in what happens in 1 second, you get a result in m*sqrt(s)
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02:49:46 <hppavilion[1]> Now for a physical interpretation...
02:50:48 <shachaf> physical interpretations are for the physicists
02:51:38 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: They're nice though
02:52:40 <hppavilion[1]> You aren't being impure if you switch mindsets and only apply your mathematics at the very end (take a real-world problem, drop all the real-world stuff, do proper math, quickly turn it back into something real at the very end)
02:53:06 <hppavilion[1]> If you explain what's going on to the reader in real-world terms while mathing it, THEN your math is impure
03:16:46 <hppavilion[1]> I really don't like MKS; MGS would be objectively better
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03:22:47 <hppavilion[1]> If it's going to be entirely impossible to make Americans use SI, can we at least get them to use a YPS (yard-pound-second) metric variant?
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03:24:07 <shachaf> At that point, why not go the whole 8.2296 meters?
03:24:26 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: And just switch to metric? Because Americans.
03:24:35 <hppavilion[2]> Americans won't go for it
03:24:40 <hppavilion[2]> Though PPP would be the best
03:24:52 <shachaf> pooch-pooch-pooch
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03:34:15 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: ...planck
03:34:20 <hppavilion[2]> FFF as well
03:37:42 <hppavilion[2]> (I want to see FFF, but with the additional base units for electric current, temperature, luminous intensity, and amount of substance)
03:38:39 <hppavilion[2]> (Plus prefixes)
03:38:58 <hppavilion[2]> (All unit names must start with F, and probably also the prefixes)
03:39:07 <hppavilion[2]> Prefixes based on powers of 7?
03:41:58 <hppavilion[2]> Temperature has to be Fahrenheit of course
03:47:31 <hppavilion[2]> `? wegians
03:47:32 <HackEgo> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
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04:44:02 <shachaf> `quote prose
04:44:03 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
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04:56:21 <zzo38> How capable is iCE40 FPGA compared to Xilinx, if IceStorm is used?
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06:00:42 <hppavilion[2]> Mathematical notation prank idea: if you have two variables h and p and you take their product, just call their product 'f' without explicitly stating so and act confused when people don't understand
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06:06:15 <hppavilion[2]> Also, single- and double-story a and g are different variables
06:06:52 <hppavilion[2]> Umlaut is an operator, but can only be applied to a (either kind), e, i, o, and u
06:07:30 <hppavilion[2]> w is equal to 2*u OR u^2, depending on the paper (be consistent in each paper, but feel free to change in different papers)
06:17:38 <zzo38> I suppose it is a new kind?
06:18:19 <hppavilion[2]> zzo38: ?
06:19:32 * hppavilion[2] . o o ()
06:19:40 <hppavilion[2]> ...I swear, that's never happened to me before
06:20:06 * hppavilion[2] . o O ( English needs some new bizarre letter variants that our ancestors will look at and say "huh, that's weird, didn't realize they used THAT historically" )
06:21:44 * Sgeo . o O ( I've only really seen . o O notation in JParanoia )
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06:42:11 <oerjan> . o O ( Do you have clearance to reveal that information )
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06:56:14 <hppavilion[2]> Did Einstein ever appear on television?
06:56:58 <izabera> last week on themoreyouknow
06:58:11 <Cale>
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06:58:53 <pikhq> Possible, but I don't know.
07:00:11 <pikhq> Apparently he died on route to a TV appearance commemorating the 7th anniversary of the state of Israel, though.
07:00:29 <pikhq> Oh, sorry. Not on route. Died intending to go to one.
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07:04:08 <pikhq> He was a Jew from Germany, so I can understand why he'd a) care to do such a thing b) be invited for such a thing.
07:04:56 <izabera> and, you know, the science thing
07:05:23 <izabera> your comment looks slightly racist
07:06:18 <izabera> implying that he'd be invited to tv shows for being a jew rather than for what he did
07:06:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49695&oldid=45967 * Martin Ender * (-86) /* Prelude */ update with shortened quine and correct line
07:06:48 <pikhq> No, more for the specific element of being for the 7th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel.
07:07:46 <pikhq> i.e. that if he weren't Jewish it's rather unlikely they would think of having him for that particular event.
07:08:08 <oerjan> hm nothing caught in the wiki spam filter today
07:08:20 <izabera> oerjan: add some
07:08:22 <oerjan> or yesterday
07:10:39 <hppavilion[2]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEtQ-gQ0Bq8
07:11:10 <oerjan> izabera: done hth
07:11:19 <izabera> thanks
07:11:33 <hppavilion[2]> (It's hard to remember that Einstein had a mega-german accent)
07:12:08 <oerjan> got caught in two of the filters
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07:15:09 <oerjan> very mega
07:18:56 <hppavilion[2]> (I wonder what accent of german I'm learning- like, obviously, I'm going to have an american accent, but I'll also have an accent based on what my German teacher (who apparently doesn't have an accent according to other germans, despite being from Tennysee)
07:18:59 <hppavilion[2]> (sp)
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07:20:03 <oerjan> just pronounce german like einstein pronounced english, and you'll be fine.
07:20:18 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh
07:20:31 * oerjan whistles innocently
07:23:57 <oerjan> shockingly, irssi doesn't seem to have a simple command for sending ctcp replies.
07:24:56 <hppavilion[1]> *shocked*
07:25:17 <shachaf> oerjan: /nctcp?
07:25:24 <oerjan> shachaf: just found it hth
07:25:30 <zzo38> Can you use NOTICE command?
07:25:36 <shachaf> oerjan: come on
07:25:39 <shachaf> that wasn't a tdh?
07:25:47 <shachaf> twhh?
07:25:52 <oerjan> shachaf: no, because i'd already found it
07:26:02 <shachaf> twhhioihfif
07:26:04 <oerjan> sent the reply a second before
07:26:07 <shachaf> sorry, twhhioihnfif
07:26:15 <oerjan> taautdnh
07:26:26 <shachaf> the point is, do you want to encourage the behavior
07:26:30 <shachaf> not just this isolated incident
07:26:46 <oerjan> twhhbywtl OKAY?
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07:27:44 <shachaf> i can't decipher the previous acronym
07:28:03 <shachaf> i mean not the latest one but the one before
07:28:20 <oerjan> that's very meta-appropriate, in fact
07:28:44 <hppavilion[1]> tchh
07:28:47 <hppavilion[1]> tshh
07:28:55 <hppavilion[1]> twhhbamtw
07:28:56 <shachaf> btjdnh?
07:29:13 * oerjan blows a brain fuse
07:30:44 <shachaf> mine was: that would have helped if only i had not found it first
07:30:52 <shachaf> tanstaaha
07:31:38 <oerjan> `learn tanstaaha so please stop using them twh
07:31:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'tanstaaha': tanstaaha so please stop using them twh
07:32:45 <shachaf> `sedlast s# twh#. That would help.#;s# #, #
07:32:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so please stop using them. That would help.
07:32:51 <oerjan> anyway, it was "those acronyms are unreadable, that does not help"
07:33:16 <shachaf> tanstahth
07:33:25 <oerjan> shachaf: how hypercritical
07:33:35 <shachaf> What?
07:33:42 <shachaf> Have you ever been helped by a hairy toe?
07:33:51 <oerjan> you removed the hypocrisy tdnh
07:34:07 <shachaf> why would the dogs care about hypocrisy
07:34:25 <shachaf> wait, hyperccriticial/hypocritical
07:34:30 <shachaf> i'm missing a pun of some sort
07:34:57 <oerjan> clearly by removing hypocrisy, you are creating hypercrisy, duh
07:35:31 <oerjan> . o O ( what's duh an acronym of again )
07:36:06 <shachaf> Hm.
07:36:13 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, now I see.
07:36:20 <shachaf> You were talking about the sed
07:36:50 <shachaf> `? aha
07:36:51 <HackEgo> aha? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
07:38:11 <oerjan> `learn aha would be a helpful acronym, but has a shedding problem.
07:38:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'aha': aha would be a helpful acronym, but has a shedding problem.
07:38:18 <shachaf> `learn AHA is a helpful acronym for American Heart Association.
07:38:21 <HackEgo> Relearned 'aha': AHA is a helpful acronym for American Heart Association.
07:38:21 <shachaf> oops
07:38:51 <shachaf> Shedding?
07:38:58 <oerjan> it's very hairy
07:39:23 <shachaf> You should revert my edit.
07:40:13 <oerjan> `revert
07:40:15 <oerjan> OKAY
07:40:22 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
07:47:50 <shachaf> `? oerjan
07:47:51 <HackEgo> Your mysterious reanimate œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
07:48:02 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s#reanimate#helpful#
07:48:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious helpful œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
07:48:41 <shachaf> Is it still true that when you try to remember a word, "amortized" pops up?
07:48:47 <shachaf> oh man
07:48:58 <shachaf> i just found out the identity of Betty Crocker
07:49:03 <shachaf> or the identity of [redacted]
07:50:19 <oerjan> shocking
07:50:34 <oerjan> shachaf: it might be, i haven't tried to remember a word in a while
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09:13:15 <fizzie> Phew, finally some internets.
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15:53:05 <alercah> fizzie: an internet? where?
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16:04:07 <fizzie> It came out of the wall at home.
16:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dbfi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49696&oldid=30552 * Nthern * (+0) typo correction: CGBSI should be CGBFI
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17:09:06 <gamemanj> fizzie: A ghost?
17:10:29 <fizzie> An internet.
17:13:50 <gamemanj> if I saw internets coming out of the walls, I'd jump out a window to avoid being crushed.
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18:34:57 <\oren\> President of the Phillipines Duterte threatens to eat terrorists.
18:35:11 <\oren\> #nottheonion
18:35:29 <\oren\> "with salt and vinegar"
18:36:24 <myname> i like terrorists the most with fresh grilling marks
18:36:36 <myname> and a nice bbq sauce
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18:52:02 <myname> anybody ever made some kind of a todo list for df-likes? i know there is that kind of stuff für roguelikes
19:00:15 <zzo38> I have not seen for either
19:06:47 <myname> roguelike howtwos usually advice you to hardcode levels at first and stuff
19:07:09 <myname> which makes lot of sense in that point
19:07:21 <myname> but is completely irrelevant for df likes
19:08:57 <zzo38> One forum I go on has now added a field in the user profile for RDF link (which says it can be used not only for RDF but also for RSS or Atom), although currently there is no way of automatically reading that file on the forum server since that would be more difficult to program and furthermore would cause problems when they upgrade the forum software.
19:09:32 <zzo38> myname: Well, I don't know df likes working, but I suppose what you said can be work for roguelike
19:09:51 <zzo38> What other advice did they give?
19:11:35 <myname> i'd have to look it up, i read that quite a while ago
19:12:02 <myname> but imho roguelikes and df likes are way too different to use similar approaches in design
19:14:51 <zzo38> I believe you
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20:06:15 <Slereah> Is there a way to implement combinators using C# delegates without getting stack overflows
20:06:30 <Slereah> Doing it via string modification is straighforward enough
20:07:48 <Slereah> For instance, if I pick the Turing combinator U, then ``UUI = `I``UUI = ``UUI
20:07:56 <Slereah> Infinite loop but the string size doesn't change
20:08:22 <Slereah> But if I do it via delegates, the recursive function calls makes the stack quickly overflow
20:08:27 <Slereah> Is there a way around this
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20:16:00 <zzo38> I don't know how is C# working
20:21:55 <alercah> change the size of the C# stack?
20:25:41 <Slereah> that is not really a v. good solution
20:25:49 <Slereah> It will overflow in 3 seconds instead of 1
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20:34:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( There should be a programmer religion with numerology in hex )
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20:42:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: your random number generator came up with 0x600DD065! you will have good luck with animals today
20:43:20 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yes
20:43:25 <hppavilion[1]> But I'll also need digit sum and such
20:46:58 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: How should the rng be seeded?
20:48:28 <\oren\> with your birthdate and the current angle between the sun and the planet Ceres
20:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> I was thinking something like that
20:48:53 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Seed with birthday, result is modulo Ceres?
20:49:38 <hppavilion[1]> (seed with birthdate via day^3+month^2+year using the reformed calendar)
20:52:02 <\oren\> My position on planets is that anything going around the sun that is round is a planet by the way
20:52:30 <\oren\> Ceres is spherical, therefore is a planet, not an asteroid
20:53:03 <Taneb> What about that tennis ball I lost in space that one time
20:54:16 <\oren\> Taneb: that's a very small artificial planet
20:54:42 <izabera> how did that happen?
20:54:54 <Taneb> Shenanigans.
20:55:00 <izabera> classic
20:55:28 <\oren\> the whole clearing their neighbourhood thing is just a stupid excuse to preven their being hundreds of planets beyond Neptune
20:56:36 <pikhq> ... and between Mars and Earth.
20:56:58 <\oren\> pikhq: there are very few spherical asteroids actually
20:57:25 <Taneb> I remember the first time I played KSP I got a single kerbal on solar escape orbit, largely by accident
20:57:47 <pikhq> Still...
20:58:21 <pikhq> Oh, huh, there's only one known object in the asteroid belt that's spherical.
20:58:33 <pikhq> Dwarf planet Ceres.
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20:59:43 <\oren\> pikhq: yeah. basically my position comes down to saying that the things the IAU is calling "dwarf planets" should still fall into the category of "planets"
20:59:54 <shachaf> Category of planets?
20:59:58 <shachaf> What are the arrows?
21:01:25 <pikhq> \oren\: I don't really see why though -- clearing the neighborhood seems not-insignificant.
21:01:47 <shachaf> "What's the degree of (x-a)(x-b)...(x-z)?"
21:01:53 <izabera> 7
21:02:25 <hppavilion[1]> I'm with Bertrand Russell on WWII
21:02:33 <izabera> shachaf: does that include x-x ?
21:02:52 <\oren\> pikhq: it's defined arbitrarily though. There are a ton of asteroids that pass close to all the planets
21:13:33 <\oren\> I think it's just an excuse so they don't have to keep revising the number of planets
21:15:51 <hppavilion[1]> `? wegian
21:15:56 <HackEgo> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
21:17:13 <hppavilion[1]> He said that, despite nonviolence being the best strategy /usually/, Hitler was kind of bad and we need to fight him anyway
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21:35:43 <gamemanj> I say Pluto is a planet just so that we can keep things consistent as to how they were, and then say "the 2000s were weird".
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21:36:30 <myname> there is an episode of rick&morty about that
21:37:17 <shachaf> `? tarator
21:37:18 <HackEgo> tarator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:37:23 <shachaf> `? gaspacho
21:37:25 <HackEgo> You like Gaspacho and I like Gazpacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
21:37:33 <shachaf> `? gaszpacho
21:37:34 <HackEgo> gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days
21:38:27 <shachaf> `learn Tarator is a Bulgarian soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days.
21:38:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'tarator': Tarator is a Bulgarian soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days.
21:39:18 <myname> why doesnjt it spell "szoup"?
21:41:48 <shachaf> Why would it?
21:42:22 <myname> why is it szerved?
21:43:05 <shachaf> Oh, that.
21:43:16 <shachaf> `dowg gaszpacho
21:43:18 <HackEgo> 2015-08-13 <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 2015-08-12 <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 2014-03-16 <oerjan> revert \ 2014-03-16 <elliott> revert 1 \ 2013-07-31 <Bike> revert \ 2013-07-31 <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 2013-02-13 <ais523> revert 87c64ef250a0 \ 2013-02-13 <ais523> revert 3
21:43:22 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l szoup wisdom
21:43:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/gazspaczo \ wisdom/disflagrate \ wisdom/szoup
21:43:40 <shachaf> `? gazspaczo
21:43:41 <HackEgo> gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz
21:43:46 <shachaf> `? szoup
21:43:47 <HackEgo> A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
21:43:50 <shachaf> `? disflagrate
21:43:51 <HackEgo> disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
21:50:07 <FreeFull> `? lecsó
21:50:08 <HackEgo> lecsó? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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21:55:57 <FreeFull> `wisdom lecsó Delicious hungarian stew, made with peppers and tomatoes
21:55:58 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory \ //
21:56:10 <FreeFull> I don't remember how to make new ones
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22:04:36 <zzo38> Are there any languages that are LL(1) but are not LR(1)?
22:09:50 <shachaf> any bulgarians in here?
22:15:55 <Taneb> shachaf, is Bulgarian LL(1) but not LR(1)?
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22:34:05 <\oren\> argh, I'm loding my credentials as nativ english speaker
22:34:33 <\oren\> i can't stop making grammatical and spelling problems
22:35:21 <\oren\> I wrote "with suport of" instead of "with support for"
22:37:21 <\oren\> and above you can see more malapropisms
22:41:10 <izabera> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Zippers
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2016-09-07
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00:35:35 <oerjan> @tell Slereah <Slereah> Is there a way to implement combinators using C# delegates without getting stack overflows <-- i suspect this is when you need a trampoline.
00:35:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:46:25 <hppavilion[1]> OK, the wikipedia Philosophy trick is freaking me out right now
00:46:27 <hppavilion[1]> Why does it work?
00:46:38 <hppavilion[1]> And is it possible to have a chain where it does not?
00:47:04 <oerjan> mainly because articles about concrete things tend to start with a link to something slightly more abstract
00:47:32 <oerjan> and philosophy is about the most abstract there is.
00:48:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But is there, like, an inalienable reason? Like, MediaWiki code?
00:48:14 <hppavilion[1]> Or is it just random?
00:48:14 <oerjan> so unless you have a _short_ loop (which probably exist), you'll probably keep going up.
00:48:45 <oerjan> there's no intrinsic necessity there - after all, the trick _excludes_ the most mechanical links.
00:49:54 <oerjan> i think people in the channel searched for an exception once, and i think we found one.
00:50:06 <oerjan> unless it was a variant game.
00:50:28 <hppavilion[1]> FUUUUUUUUUUU
00:50:36 <hppavilion[1]> God, it works every time
00:50:57 <oerjan> well sure, it _usually_ does.
00:52:09 <hppavilion[1]> I love how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics needs a citation that it is, indeed, science
00:52:18 <oerjan> heh
00:52:37 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Does Uncyclopedia have something like this? Or even just The Wiki? )
00:52:56 <oerjan> i dunno about our wiki
00:53:10 <oerjan> we have the bf derivative game, of course.
00:53:15 <hppavilion[1]> Also, wikipedia vandalism idea: Make all the loops have a distance of 1 (so in EVERY article, the first link is DIRECTLY to philosophy)
00:53:21 <hppavilion[1]> Haven't heard of it
00:54:22 <oerjan> i'm not sure i remember the rules, but you are basically clicking random until you either get a language you made, or a bf derivative. +1 for the former, -1 for the latter. or thereabouts.
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00:55:28 <hppavilion[1]> "In classical [[philosophy]], Adolf Hitler is the archetypical [[Assholery (philosphy)|asshole]]..."
00:55:44 <oerjan> is there a misspelling there
00:55:47 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh
00:55:49 <hppavilion[1]> Where?
00:55:55 <oerjan> philosphy
00:56:03 <hppavilion[1]> No?
00:56:09 <oerjan> the second one.
00:56:12 <hppavilion[1]> philosphy is just a branch of philosophy
00:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> hth
00:56:18 <oerjan> O KAY
00:56:41 <hppavilion[1]> ("Adolf" is hard to spell, because I feel like it should be "Adolph")
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00:57:24 <oerjan> that's because you don't have the german spirit (Deutsche Volksgeist)
00:57:53 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler applies